Author
Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
(Read 3503970 times)

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #46074 on:** June 30, 2025, 11:15:43 AM »

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2025, 08:55:53 AM

Illannoy residents suffer one of the highest tax burdens in the country, which is a direct result of the state government.

The state has more taxing bodies than any other (by my last check when I lived there).

Take a look at the public pension debt.

The state government is exactly the cause of why Illannoy keeps losing House seats every cycle.

People outside of the Chicago and St. Louis metros don't vote for this crap. They just have the misfortune of being born where they were born.

This is an issue I have some familiarity with and it will be a nightmare.

It also isn't nearly as Red State / Blue State as some R's might want to believe. Resorting those top-10 by per capita (which is the relevant figure):

$17.65k Jersey, blue
$15.82k Connecticut, blue
$14.55k Illinois, blue
$7.12k Massachusetts, blue
$6.17k Kentucky, red
$4.34k Maryland, blue
$3.75k California, blue
$3.72k Texas, red
$3.38k New York, blue
$2.46k, Pennsylvania, purple

Jersey, Connecticut, Illinois, and Massachusetts are blue states that have mismanaged their pension systems but red state Kentucky is right there with them and big red Texas is almost as bad as big blue California and worse than big blue New York. My point being that this really isn't a Partisan issue. As it turns out both Democratic Legislatures and Republican Legislatures are capable of mismanaging pension funds.

A lot of people don't know this but a chunk of State and Local Governmental employees are NOT covered by Social Security. That makes this time bomb actually WORSE than the private sector pension bankruptcies that precipitated ERISA. At least those retirees had SS to fall back on. Per the Social Security Administration:

100% of Ohio's state and local government employees are NOT covered by SS
100% of Massachusetts'
100% of Nevada's
87% of Louisiana's
76% of Colorado's
64% of Connecticut's
42% of California's
42% of Illinois'
35% of Texas'
29% of Kentucky's
22% of Georgia's
20% of Missouri's

These state and local government employees that are NOT covered by SS have no fall-back. It is bad enough if you were promised a pension and it doesn't get paid and you have to live on just SS but it is MUCH worse if you were promised a pension and it doesn't get paid AND you don't have SS.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #46075 on:** June 30, 2025, 11:17:46 AM »

Quote from: utee94 on June 30, 2025, 11:11:51 AM

I haven't really thought about it being a conservative thing, though perhaps it is? Texas state leg and governor are certainly conservative.

I thought this particular issue was more about just being busy-bodies and creating solutions to problems that don't really exist...

But maybe cell phone distraction is a big deal in other districts? It really isn't here, but I also live in a place where parents are engaged, setting boundaries and creating rules, and generally raising their kids. If I heard from a teacher that my kid's cell phone or tablet or whatever was a distraction or an issue, then I'd take it away myself. But that doesn't happen because teachers here are capable and empowered to manage it on their own. If that's not true elsewhere, I can't speak to that.

My main interaction with someone who really was for it was an arch conservative person, and then Texas leading the way for it.

In your district can a teacher take a kid’s cell phone?

The law certainly speaks to what I’d consider an older school sensibility. And it’s interesting to see the counter to that ascend into parenthood.

utee94 · « **Reply #46076 on:** June 30, 2025, 11:20:32 AM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 30, 2025, 11:17:46 AM

My main interaction with someone who really was for it was an arch conservative person, and then Texas leading the way for it.

In your district can a teacher take a kid’s cell phone?

The law certainly speaks to what I’d consider an older school sensibility. And it’s interesting to see the counter to that ascend into parenthood.

Yup, some teachers collect them at the door. It's not very common though, because most teachers don't find it to be a big issue.

And a handful of teachers intentionally allow students to use them during class as part of the course, when doing various tasks like searching for something online or finding examples of cultural issues.

utee94 · « **Reply #46077 on:** June 30, 2025, 11:25:22 AM »

Honestly as I think about it, students that want to check out and not pay attention, are going to do so. "Back in my day" this might manifest as me talking to my nearby friends, which invariably disturbs the entire class. If a kid who wants to check out is just surfing on his phone, then of course he's negatively affecting his own education, but he's most likely not negatively impacting his peers.

847badgerfan · « **Reply #46078 on:** June 30, 2025, 11:28:23 AM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 30, 2025, 11:15:43 AM

This is an issue I have some familiarity with and it will be a nightmare.

It also isn't nearly as Red State / Blue State as some R's might want to believe. Resorting those top-10 by per capita (which is the relevant figure):
$17.65k Jersey, blue
$15.82k Connecticut, blue
$14.55k Illinois, blue
$7.12k Massachusetts, blue
$6.17k Kentucky, red
$4.34k Maryland, blue
$3.75k California, blue
$3.72k Texas, red
$3.38k New York, blue
$2.46k, Pennsylvania, purple

Jersey, Connecticut, Illinois, and Massachusetts are blue states that have mismanaged their pension systems but red state Kentucky is right there with them and big red Texas is almost as bad as big blue California and worse than big blue New York. My point being that this really isn't a Partisan issue. As it turns out both Democratic Legislatures and Republican Legislatures are capable of mismanaging pension funds.

A lot of people don't know this but a chunk of State and Local Governmental employees are NOT covered by Social Security. That makes this time bomb actually WORSE than the private sector pension bankruptcies that precipitated ERISA. At least those retirees had SS to fall back on. Per the Social Security Administration:
100% of Ohio's state and local government employees are NOT covered by SS
100% of Massachusetts'
100% of Nevada's
87% of Louisiana's
76% of Colorado's
64% of Connecticut's
42% of California's
42% of Illinois'
35% of Texas'
29% of Kentucky's
22% of Georgia's
20% of Missouri's

These state and local government employees that are NOT covered by SS have no fall-back. It is bad enough if you were promised a pension and it doesn't get paid and you have to live on just SS but it is MUCH worse if you were promised a pension and it doesn't get paid AND you don't have SS.

Sort by taxpaying capita.

There are less and less of those in Illinois. The last one to leave will need to turn off the lights on the way out.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #46079 on:** June 30, 2025, 11:57:34 AM »

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2025, 11:28:23 AM

Sort by taxpaying capita.

There are less and less of those in Illinois. The last one to leave will need to turn off the lights on the way out.

This is exactly what caused the Detroit bankruptcy.

In Michigan instead of statewide pension plans the individual municipalities manage their own pensions. In the case of Detroit their peak census population came in 1950 at 1.8M. In the 2020 census it was down to barely over 1/3 of that at 639k. Worse, in 1950 a lot of those people had good-paying jobs at big-three auto factories. Nearly all of those folks moved out to the burbs LONG ago.

For Illinois I do see a serious risk of a death-spiral. Their pension debt is staggering and they already have high taxes. At some point raising them further will chase so many taxpayers out (like you) that they'll lose more than they gain and the per-capita or, as you point out, the per taxpayer pension debt will get even worse and that becomes a death spiral from which the State couldn't escape.

Ability to pay matters. In Detroit the per capita income is $19k. In New Jersey it is $82k, in Connecticut it is $90k, Illinois's is $68k.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #46080 on:** June 30, 2025, 12:42:31 PM »

In my experience, it's rare when some government policy change or new law impacts my life at all.

I also think it's pretty common for humans, as social animals, to act against their own personal interests because we perceive some greater good. And of course, it's not my business to decide what someone else's personal interests are.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #46081 on:** June 30, 2025, 02:28:27 PM »

Murders are down nationwide. Researchers say COVID is a big reason why : NPR

Trump admin finds Harvard violated federal civil rights law : NPR

Cincydawg · « **Reply #46082 on:** June 30, 2025, 02:39:11 PM »

I'm happy murder rates are down, reportedly, and that Harvard has been "cited" for discrimination, of a sort.

I'm more amused at the latter.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #46083 on:** June 30, 2025, 02:53:58 PM »

Clinton signs ‘Welfare to Work’ bill, Aug. 22, 1996 - POLITICO

FearlessF · « **Reply #46084 on:** June 30, 2025, 02:56:09 PM »

that should have solved most welfare problems by now.

Gigem · « **Reply #46085 on:** June 30, 2025, 03:00:23 PM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 30, 2025, 11:15:43 AM

This is an issue I have some familiarity with and it will be a nightmare.

It also isn't nearly as Red State / Blue State as some R's might want to believe. Resorting those top-10 by per capita (which is the relevant figure):
$17.65k Jersey, blue
$15.82k Connecticut, blue
$14.55k Illinois, blue
$7.12k Massachusetts, blue
$6.17k Kentucky, red
$4.34k Maryland, blue
$3.75k California, blue
$3.72k Texas, red
$3.38k New York, blue
$2.46k, Pennsylvania, purple

Jersey, Connecticut, Illinois, and Massachusetts are blue states that have mismanaged their pension systems but red state Kentucky is right there with them and big red Texas is almost as bad as big blue California and worse than big blue New York. My point being that this really isn't a Partisan issue. As it turns out both Democratic Legislatures and Republican Legislatures are capable of mismanaging pension funds.

A lot of people don't know this but a chunk of State and Local Governmental employees are NOT covered by Social Security. That makes this time bomb actually WORSE than the private sector pension bankruptcies that precipitated ERISA. At least those retirees had SS to fall back on. Per the Social Security Administration:
100% of Ohio's state and local government employees are NOT covered by SS
100% of Massachusetts'
100% of Nevada's
87% of Louisiana's
76% of Colorado's
64% of Connecticut's
42% of California's
42% of Illinois'
35% of Texas'
29% of Kentucky's
22% of Georgia's
20% of Missouri's

These state and local government employees that are NOT covered by SS have no fall-back. It is bad enough if you were promised a pension and it doesn't get paid and you have to live on just SS but it is MUCH worse if you were promised a pension and it doesn't get paid AND you don't have SS.

Texas' pension looks better knowing this:

847badgerfan · « **Reply #46086 on:** June 30, 2025, 03:19:30 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 30, 2025, 02:53:58 PM

Clinton signs ‘Welfare to Work’ bill, Aug. 22, 1996 - POLITICO

Welfare and poverty rates both declined during the late 1990s, however, leading some observers to view the legislation as a success.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #46087 on:** June 30, 2025, 03:20:09 PM »

Quote from: Gigem on June 30, 2025, 03:00:23 PM

Texas' pension looks better knowing this:

I'd want to know how big the Pension liability is. $28.5 Billion is a LOT of money but IIRC, Detriot's Pension liaiblity was in that vicinity and that is just for one City. The State of Texas' total pension liability could dwarf that figure. It might not, I don't know, but I'm just pointing out that $28.5B isn't actually as much as it sounds like when you start looking at Pension liability.

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.

Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

medinabuckeye1

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

bayareabadger

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

utee94

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

utee94

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

847badgerfan

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

medinabuckeye1

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

Cincydawg

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

Cincydawg

Re: OT - What made you happy today?

Cincydawg

Re: Re: OT - What made you happy today?

Cincydawg

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

FearlessF

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

Gigem

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

847badgerfan

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

medinabuckeye1

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes