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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45248 on: June 12, 2025, 04:13:47 PM »
That is why we have "news outlets", putting the term loosely, that cater to each political bias.  Confirmation bias is human nature and why so many believe rather strange illogical things.

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45249 on: June 12, 2025, 04:24:54 PM »
I think the Trump administration is plainly not focused on just deporting hardened criminals; I think sorting out who should be able to stay and who needs to go is far more complicated than whether a person came here with proper documentation; I think the Trump administration is intentionally sparking violence in large cities where the populations are plainly anti-Trump; and I'm not suprised by any of it--nor do I think that the Trump administration is going to suspend our democracy. Next year they will lose the House, and in three years, Trump will be the lamest of lame duck presidents, with an open presidential election taking up all of the new cycle.
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45250 on: June 12, 2025, 04:53:33 PM »
I'm comfortable with my drive-by post, above, except for the syntax errors. I'm not trying to change your minds on this one, I'm just pointing out a couple of different perspectives, depending on your sources of information and your biases (including my different sources of information and my biases).

Medina, I will concede that "my side"--including me--needs to come up with a better way to address what we see as obvious racial components in the immigration debate without calling people racists. I take at face value that you are not a racist. It's a conundrum--and one that I am thinking about because your point is well taken. But I do think the the Trump administration's immigration policies contain an element of racism. That doesn't mean that anyone who agrees with those policies is racist.

And I'm busy. And making highly inflammatory drive-by posts. Which is nice.

And Badge, of course you are correct that the Dems won't necessarily retake the House, but, yes, I'm fairly confident that they will, based more on history than anything else. You may be correct that this immigration debate is actually winning the right more moderates. I think it did last summer, but that was before implementation. We'll see how it goes now. Nonetheless, I'm confident in my prediction here. If I'm wrong, it will be historically significant. Take notes. Feel free to point that out to me in November 2026 if it doesn't come to pass.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45251 on: June 12, 2025, 05:08:12 PM »
Grr:
I was literally in the middle of posting this and it got eaten by the great internet monster so I had to start over and in the meantime @SFBadger96 posted his comments justifying his prediction to @847badgerfan so now I'm retyping my post and appending it to his to flesh out the history that he referenced:

Next year they will lose the House

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

And Badge, of course you are correct that the Dems won't necessarily retake the House, but, yes, I'm fairly confident that they will, based more on history than anything else. You may be correct that this immigration debate is actually winning the right more moderates. I think it did last summer, but that was before implementation. We'll see how it goes now. Nonetheless, I'm confident in my prediction here. If I'm wrong, it will be historically significant. Take notes. Feel free to point that out to me in November 2026 if it doesn't come to pass.
The history that @SFBadger96 is referring to is:

Going back 50 years the party out of the WH has gained seats in 11 of the 13 midterm elections.  The only exceptions were in 2002 on a wave of rally-about-the-leader patriotism post-9/11 and in 1998 when the Republicans didn't have much available to gain due to their huge pickup in 1994.  

Further, control of the HoR has changed to the party out of the WH is four of the last five midterm elections and the lone exception was only because the Republicans already controlled the HoR in 2014 so they couldn't take control away from the Democrats.  

In fact, in the last 50 years the only minority party in the HoR that was out of the WH that failed to take control of the HoR was the Republicans in 1978.  

History is DEFINITIVELY on the side of @SFBadger96 's prediction.  

That said, it isn't impossible and I said earlier that I believe that support for pro-illegal-immigrant demonstrations that turn into orgies of looting and burning by the Democrats could provide an opening for Republicans to maintain control of the HoR.  However, I'd be a lot more confident of that if the Republicans had something like a 40-50 seat (238-197 or 243-192) majority rather than their current five seat 220-215 majority.  

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45252 on: June 12, 2025, 05:40:58 PM »
I think it was too early to claim Congress will shift this way or that other than to note some history.


Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45253 on: June 12, 2025, 05:49:24 PM »
1.   We're NOT going to deport even a large percentage of "illegals".
2.  Most of them are law abiding* and here to work and send money home or raise their families.

*Yes, they probably committed a CIVIL violation back when.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45254 on: June 12, 2025, 06:07:34 PM »
1.  We're NOT going to deport even a large percentage of "illegals".
2.  Most of them are law abiding* and here to work and send money home or raise their families.

*Yes, they probably committed a CIVIL violation back when.
But we are going to deport a good % of them that are violent criminals.   
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45255 on: June 12, 2025, 06:09:06 PM »
Fine with me, focus 99% of the effort on them.  That isn't what I'm reading.  This whole thing is highly  highly political nonsense.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45256 on: June 12, 2025, 06:12:29 PM »
Fine with me, focus 99% of the effort on them.  That isn't what I'm reading.  This whole thing is highly  highly political nonsense.
You’re reading propaganda then.   Go by what you see.  

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45257 on: June 12, 2025, 06:24:23 PM »
I have a major problem with what is shown in the "news" that my eyes see.  I've seen way too many cases where the media misrepresent something, intentionally, to make it seem worse, or better, than it actually is.  

One can find a riot, or what appears to be a riot, when it's an isolated case.  All you show is a small area where something is burning. 

OR, they can show what appears to be a peaceful protest while ignoring actual rioting and looting happening elsewhere.

Take this Padilla situation.  OK, he was manhandled out of the room.  Was he there to ask appropriate questions at an appropriate time?  Or to interrupt and stage a performance with his aid filming it?  He got what he wanted, I suspect, but don't know.

To me, most of this crap is a performance for cameras.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45258 on: June 12, 2025, 06:28:42 PM »
I have a major problem with what is shown in the "news" that my eyes see.  I've seen way too many cases where the media misrepresent something, intentionally, to make it seem worse, or better, than it actually is. 

One can find a riot, or what appears to be a riot, when it's an isolated case.  All you show is a small area where something is burning.

OR, they can show what appears to be a peaceful protest while ignoring actual rioting and looting happening elsewhere.

Take this Padilla situation.  OK, he was manhandled out of the room.  Was he there to ask appropriate questions at an appropriate time?  Or to interrupt and stage a performance with his aid filming it?  He got what he wanted, I suspect, but don't know.

To me, most of this crap is a performance for cameras.
Interesting that you should use that for your example. Because you are right the news can be very biased. 

but if you watch it, it really can’t be faked. He charged into the room violently and started to charge the stage. He had no identification on him and he just started yelling and screaming. He was forcefully escorted out of the room because he did not cooperate. He was gently sat down and handcuffed, and once he produced identification, he was released.  So he got exactly what he wanted.

but now you have all the Dems on TV screaming about how inappropriate was that he was treated that way, blah blah blah blah blah. When in reality he got exactly what he wanted and exactly what anybody would get if they had tried the same stunt.  it’s all political theater. 

but if one business owner is on TV crying because their business was ruined by loaders, or multiple cinderblocks are thrown through police car windows, or Molotov cocktails are thrown, or fireworks are shot directly at the heads of police officers on bikes, that’s not fake or AI. That’s real, that’s violence, and it can’t be denied. And don’t try to minimize it by saying it’s an isolated incident because even if that were true, which it clearly is not, it does not excuse the violent behavior or those standing up for the violent behavior, which is an entire party

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

utee94

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45259 on: June 12, 2025, 06:33:28 PM »
Well I'll put it this way.  If you see it in the mainstream media including all OTA news plus all cable news not named Fox, then you can assume it has already been editorialized in a manner consistent with supporting the Democrats' views and agenda.

If you see it on Fox, then you can assume it has already been editorialized in a manner consistent with supporting the Republicans' views and agenda.

Given that-- if you see anything that looks negative to the Democrats' agenda on any of the mainstream media, then they're probably only showing you 5% of the "bad stuff" happening and the situation is actually much, much worse.  So if they're showing any of the rioting at all, then you know it's worse than that.

Conversely, if you see anything that looks negative to the Republicans' agenda on Fox, then... well, I can't even finish that sentence.  Because you'll never see anything on Fox that looks negative to the Republicans' agenda. :86:
« Last Edit: June 12, 2025, 06:50:05 PM by utee94 »

Honestbuckeye

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45260 on: June 12, 2025, 07:22:40 PM »
And then there are the videos you see on all channels- which is rare but I have noticed quite a few times during these LA riots/protests.  It’s the same film. 

in fact, I was laughing heartily the other night. I had watched some of the violence and fires and looting on Fox and then switched it to CNN. They were showing the exact same film, but Bryan Stelter was on their screaming that CNN shouldn’t be showing this because it will give people the wrong impression”  😂😂

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Honestbuckeye

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45261 on: June 12, 2025, 07:25:13 PM »
This weekend should be “interesting”. 

Dumbass Trump is organizing a military parade. Meanwhile by their own admission and the Democrats are organizing and paying protesters throughout the big cities to draw attention away from Trump’s parade.   What a waste.    😒
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

 

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