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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41412 on: January 27, 2025, 10:03:48 AM »
I think the term "living wage" is something that just sounds good prima facia.  A lot of folks think no further than that.
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41413 on: January 27, 2025, 10:04:41 AM »
Minimum wage for me was $3.35/hour.

I don't think there should be a Federal minimum wage. That should be up to the states.

Minimum wage in New York is not the same as minimum wage in Alabama.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41414 on: January 27, 2025, 10:04:59 AM »
We had breakfast at a McDs yesterday in the middle of nowhere.  Each table had a sign offering $12-15 per hour to work there plus other benefits.  I can't imagine why anyone would be working at any MW job today.  It seems irrelevant to me.
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41415 on: January 27, 2025, 10:05:39 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2025, 10:03:48 AM
I think the term "living wage" is something that just sounds good prima facia.  A lot of folks think no further than that.
Living wage differs among us. My "living wage" is not the same as yours.
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41416 on: January 27, 2025, 10:06:30 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2025, 10:04:59 AM
We had breakfast at a McDs yesterday in the middle of nowhere.  Each table had a sign offering $12-15 per hour to work there plus other benefits.  I can't imagine why anyone would be working at any MW job today.  It seems irrelevant to me.
Free market in action.
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FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41417 on: January 27, 2025, 10:06:39 AM »
if someone is willing to work for me or my business at less than "minimum wage", I'm not sure why the government should force me to pay them more.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41418 on: January 27, 2025, 10:15:57 AM »
It's a valuable political talking point for many.  
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Riffraft

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41419 on: January 27, 2025, 11:09:12 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2025, 04:51:34 PM
This is also connected to the minimum wage being largely stagnant for 40 years.  If people were just paid a living wage, there wouldn't be such a housing crisis and/or people living in tiny homes or their vans.

I'll never understand the ideology that lands you on your knees sucking a multi-millionaire's dick.  I'm not saying they're evil, I'm saying their success does come at the expense of others. 
Once again you make the mistake of assuming the economy is a zero-sum game. 
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SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41420 on: January 27, 2025, 12:37:02 PM »
We have plenty of evidence of what happens to wages when the Feds haven't spoken, and when the labor pool isn't allowed to unionize. It isn't good for the middle class. Setting a minimum wage establishes a base level of pay that even the most powerless (economically) can earn. It also provides a base from which more skilled workers can bargain. Will it be a "living wage?" No, but it will be less predatory than the alternative. To have a vibrant middle class in a developed economy, the middle class needs economic power and economic protection. The limits of that power and protection are of course subject to reasonable debate, but eliminating the minimum wage would likely be a disaster for the middle class, and would almost certainly be a disaster for those people who are barely making it as it is.
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MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41421 on: January 27, 2025, 12:43:25 PM »
Quote from: SFBadger96 on January 27, 2025, 12:37:02 PM
We have plenty of evidence of what happens to wages when the Feds haven't spoken, and when the labor pool isn't allowed to unionize. It isn't good for the middle class. Setting a minimum wage establishes a base level of pay that even the most powerless (economically) can earn. It also provides a base from which more skilled workers can bargain. Will it be a "living wage?" No, but it will be less predatory than the alternative. To have a vibrant middle class in a developed economy, the middle class needs economic power and economic protection. The limits of that power and protection are of course subject to reasonable debate, but eliminating the minimum wage would likely be a disaster for the middle class, and would almost certainly be a disaster for those people who are barely making it as it is.

We also have a lot of evidence of the detriments of what you're advocating for.  

I think you and I were meant to disagree on everything.  I wrote you off just a few minutes ago in the NFL thread when you said you were rooting for the Eagles.  
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41422 on: January 27, 2025, 01:10:49 PM »
Well, I think unions bring corruption. Of course, y'all know where I'm from so there's that.

We do some public works stuff and most of it is union-only. So, when we bid that work, we charge twice as much as we have to pay our LAND SURVEYING techs prevailing wage for PLUMBERS (that is the union that managed to break into the surveying business).

And the taxpayer pays twice as much for their road (or whatever we are building).
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41423 on: January 27, 2025, 01:57:38 PM »
I doubt eliminating a Federal minimum wage would have any impact on the "middle class" at all, at least, I can't understand how that would occur.

I do have an idea about a "guaranteed income" that might work.  or not.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41424 on: January 27, 2025, 02:14:33 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2025, 10:52:56 AM
Start with finding us a good example of someone, ANYWHERE, who has decoupled supply and demand in the housing market successfully by treating housing as a "basic human need" rather than an market-provided economic good. I could give you examples of countries who have done this with healthcare, with varying levels of success. But I'm not aware of any countries that have done this with housing.

I'll hang up and listen, Pawl.
@OrangeAfroMan have you given any thought to this? I wasn't being flippant. I'm actually trying to understand what it would entail to actually treating "housing" as a "basic human right" looks like. As mentioned, I don't know that I have much in the way of modeling this against other developed countries, and what they've attempted to do.

As mentioned, "healthcare" is an easy one from a basic human right perspective. While healthcare isn't *truly* an "undifferentiated" good, the provision model is very simple. Need care, go to a doctor / urgent care / hospital, and you have an expert there to determine what care you need. From there it's just the difficult aspect of who pays for it. Same with "food"... Ultimately we have relatively simple ways [i.e. SNAP and other programs] to ensure that people who need food but have difficulty affording it, can buy it. You could do similar things with income via universal basic income [UBI] programs.

But housing is a MUCH different thing. And so when you say we should treat it as a "basic human right", I literally have no idea what that looks like or how it would be provided. Since you brought this up, I'd hope that you could sketch out even some VERY limited ideas on what you're talking about?
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SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41425 on: January 27, 2025, 02:24:10 PM »
Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 27, 2025, 12:43:25 PM
We also have a lot of evidence of the detriments of what you're advocating for. 

I think you and I were meant to disagree on everything.  I wrote you off just a few minutes ago in the NFL thread when you said you were rooting for the Eagles. 
Well at least this made me laugh.
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