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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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Honestbuckeye

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34118 on: July 10, 2024, 12:18:09 PM »
:017: Ya lost me I don't have clue to what you are referring to or any tatoos
Didn’t you say you had 1 tattoo?

it’s on your backside and says “ mom.”  But when you bend over it says “ wow”.  😂

just pulling your chain Nubbz🙃
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34119 on: July 10, 2024, 12:35:58 PM »
I think the GI Bill changed the perception of college.  Many of us had a father who attended college under it, and figured it was a good thing, so they passed it down (like me).

Before that, you really had to be fairly well off, usually, to consider college, and most jobs were "laymen" jobs.  You graduated HS and went to work, everyone did, now everyone didn't.  And the  job market progressed along side this.

It started the trend, it didn't create it.
First:
Pre-WWII a lot of people didn't even graduate from HS. They started working at 14-17 and dropped out.

Second:
I agree with what you are saying. I also think that the GI Bill benefited the US greatly.

I like to phrase it like this:
Before WWII to get a college degree you had to be a rich white male*.

  • The GI Bill removed the restriction to the wealthy.
  • The Civil Rights movement removed the requirement to be white.
  • The women's movement removed the requirement to be male.
All of this happened in a remarkably short time. For birth year ~1920 and prior, all three restrictions were in place.

By 1945 you didn't need to be wealthy so that was removed for roughly birth years after 1924.

The civil rights and women's movements had removed the racial and gender restrictions by the mid-to-late 1960's so fit birth years after about 1950.

So in around a quarter-century we removed the restrictions. Part of this was motivated by the Cold War. There was a thought that the genius future inventor of some war-winning technology might be a poor, black, or female kid and "we" wanted that kid to go to college and invent not drop out of HS and become a truck driver, share sharecropper, or housewife.

This, IMHO, benefitted the economy greatly because there was a vast untapped pool of students with college ability that had previously been unable to go to college.

American Education policy ever since has been to try to duplicate that. The problem is that we long-ago reached diminishing returns. Ie:
  • Going from ~10% heading to college and those 10% not necessarily being the smartest to the smartest 20% got huge results because it sent a lot of really smart people to college.
  • Going from 20% to 30% gets lesser results because the new additions are incrementally less intelligent.
  • Each addition beyond that is less beneficial than the one before it.

*The restrictions to wealthy white males were not absolute. There were Black Colleges and colleges that admitted non-whites and there were women's colleges and colleges that admitted women but college was mostly restricted to wealthy white males.


MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34120 on: July 10, 2024, 12:56:37 PM »
Didn’t you say you had 1 tattoo?

it’s on your backside and says “ mom.”  But when you bend over it says “ wow”.  😂

just pulling your chain Nubbz🙃
No but what she said was if you don't get the grass mowed/garbage out/snow plowed/ dog crap picked up/garden tilled/hedges trimmed I'll tell your father really why the Keg doesn't seem to hold as much as it used to. And all my brothers had already moved out
"An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out" - Will Rogers

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34121 on: July 10, 2024, 01:22:39 PM »
So, I read an article in the WSJ a while ago. It stated that the US position in these rankings has drastically fallen and that the US is about 20 in the World.

I'd like to see 'Fro's data and if that data refutes this, and why.
Uhhh, what?


All I've said is that 'what actually is' > 'what people think it is'

I haven't defended some sort of inflated idea of the US's place in education rankings.  You've conjured an invented conversation here.  

Why?  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34122 on: July 10, 2024, 01:25:20 PM »
I'll speak up for @OrangeAfroMan :

Our Education system is very good, probably the best in the world.

You can't simply compare end results because kids are not all equal. You have to measure input vs output to get a measurement of "value added".

I'll give an example:
Let's say I'm a teacher in a rich suburban district where substantially all of my students come from two parent homes and in most cases (probably close to all) both parents have college degrees.

Further suppose that Fro teaches in a getto district where a significant percentage of the students were born in the state's women's prison, almost zero of his students come from two parent homes (most have never even met their fathers), and literally none of his students' single moms have even so much as an associates degree.

If we simply test outputs, I am inherently going to look better than Fro. My students will EASILY outscore Fro's even if he is one of the best 10% of teachers and I am one of the worst 10% of teachers.

My students will outscore Fro's because I've cherry picked such that my students are top 10% and his are bottom 10%.

However, if we test at the beginning of the school year and again at the end, we'll be able to discern that Fro's kids are improving more than mine because he is a better teacher.
I appreciate the sentiment, but this is a conversation I've had no hand in, whatsoever.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34123 on: July 10, 2024, 01:27:46 PM »
This particular subject is a danger to the teacher society.
My issue was the graph being about what people think and not about any actual facts (whether good or bad).

Your distaste for me has blurred your posts into imagining me as being defensive.  Do better.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34124 on: July 10, 2024, 01:35:18 PM »
Companies are shifting. I saw it when I was an active board member at the community college.

2-year (AS) degrees and internships are the way of the future as I see it.

BS degrees for engineering, sciences, healthcare (BSN) etc.

I'm not sure what a BA gets anyone, anymore.
The interesting part will be how education works for non-technical white collar jobs. Just because that path is a little less clear at the moment.

it will also be interesting to see what a slimmed down Academy looks like when it comes to certain kinds of research

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34125 on: July 10, 2024, 01:41:36 PM »
Don't forget that AI/automation is going to eliminate TONS of jobs.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34126 on: July 10, 2024, 01:49:26 PM »
Don't forget that AI/automation is going to eliminate TONS of jobs.
Gonna create a lot of new ones too.  

Cincydawg

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34128 on: July 10, 2024, 03:11:28 PM »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34129 on: July 10, 2024, 03:16:38 PM »
They made several rulings, no doubt some view them all as bad, some view them all as good, and some in between.

But I personally don't view any of it as basis for impeachment, but whatever, it makes the news.

It's akin to disliking "assault rifles" because they are used in mass shootings "all the time", a common opinion which is factually incorrect.


847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34131 on: July 10, 2024, 04:02:42 PM »
Uhhh, what?


All I've said is that 'what actually is' > 'what people think it is'

I haven't defended some sort of inflated idea of the US's place in education rankings.  You've conjured an invented conversation here. 

Why? 
I've brought it up before and nobody responded until Medina today.

And you said you had data. Let's see it.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

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