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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32802 on: June 11, 2024, 08:41:47 PM »
Re: Trump. The crime was falsifying business records. The campaign finance issues are there because to make it a felony, he has to be shown to falsify business records "with the intent to defraud and intent to commit another crime and aid and conceal the commission thereof." 

One of the issues (perhaps the main issue) is what responsibility the state has is saying what that crime was and proving it. Do they even need to do that? I'm not a fancy New York lawyer, but I imagine this will be at the heart of the appeal.

And as an example, recently I have been litigating whether the state needs to show a car is stolen to win a conviction for Receiving Stolen Property of said car. Surprisingly, a lot of argument there.

longhorn320

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32803 on: June 11, 2024, 09:04:07 PM »
Re: Trump. The crime was falsifying business records. The campaign finance issues are there because to make it a felony, he has to be shown to falsify business records "with the intent to defraud and intent to commit another crime and aid and conceal the commission thereof."

One of the issues (perhaps the main issue) is what responsibility the state has is saying what that crime was and proving it. Do they even need to do that? I'm not a fancy New York lawyer, but I imagine this will be at the heart of the appeal.

And as an example, recently I have been litigating whether the state needs to show a car is stolen to win a conviction for Receiving Stolen Property of said car. Surprisingly, a lot of argument there.
what business records is he supposed to have falsified

and if the state doesnt have to describe the actual crime and then prove that it was commited we have officially reached banana republic status
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32804 on: June 11, 2024, 09:13:30 PM »
what business records is he supposed to have falsified

and if the state doesnt have to describe the actual crime and then prove that it was commited we have officially reached banana republic status
I believe the hush money was listed as a legal fee. (Just to answer the question, not commenting on validity)

As for the banana republic stuff, alas, we’ve been there for a minute. The cops can take your stuff/money on suspicion and make you sue to get it back.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32805 on: June 11, 2024, 10:29:48 PM »
We deserve whatever happens.

We are practically under dynastic rule, or were (Bush, Bush...Clinton, almost Clinton).  We now have a baffoon game show host vying for a 2nd!?! term.

It's embarrassing.

We're done.  Our nomination process is broken.  Urbanites and country folk are at each other's throats.  The 20 year-old generation would lose a war against Switzerland. 

We had a good run.  How long before we're just another Russia - a paper tiger with nukes? 
We earned and deserve all of it.
While I agree in principle, I fly over this country fairly often and look down and realize how many folks down there are "doing stuff", working, making money often as not, and carrying on.  The country is so vast and so productive, I think we will withstand, for a while, a ton of malfeasance.

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32806 on: June 11, 2024, 10:30:30 PM »
I don't think he's a moron. I think he's an asshole who needs to keep his mouth shut more often.
well, he's obviously an asshole

you might be considered a moron if you don't know how and/or when to keep your mouth shut
and the things that come out of your mouth hurt your own cause, badly

to answer the longhorn........
it doesn't make me feel better a tall
I was hoping Trump would be the guy to stand up to the two party system in Washington and drain the swamp

he's too interested in himself and blowing his own horn to do what's best for his country
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32807 on: June 11, 2024, 10:35:23 PM »
WASHINGTON (AP) — Eight people from Tajikistan with suspected ties to the Islamic State group have been arrested in the United States in recent days, according to multiple people familiar with the matter.

The arrests took place in New York, Philadelphia and Los Angeles and the individuals, who entered the U.S. through the southern border, are being held on immigration violations, said the people, who were not authorized to discuss the ongoing investigation by name and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.

The nature of their suspected connections to the IS was not immediately clear, but the individuals were being tracked by the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force, or JTTF. They were in the custody of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which made the arrests while working with the JTTF, pending proceedings to remove them from the country.


The individuals from Tajikistan entered the country last spring and passed through the U.S. government’s screening process without turning up information that would have identified them as potential terrorism-related concerns, said one of the people familiar with the matter.

________________________

apparently we are enforcing some immigration laws
for better or worse
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32808 on: June 11, 2024, 10:38:58 PM »
Your little list there looked like a summary to me. 
No one can strawman your positions, because they're too weak. 
If my positions are so weak why don't you try replying to one sometime. 

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32809 on: June 11, 2024, 10:49:33 PM »
My view of Trump is that he isn't a moron, or even below average in intelligence.  I don't think he's well read, but he has an ability to deal out what people like to hear.

I also don't think he did that much in four years, and I think anyone who wants to get stuff done has to compromise and work with others well, which he does not do.

(The fact that stuff happened during any Presidency doesn't mean the President caused them to happen.)

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32810 on: June 11, 2024, 11:01:19 PM »
Trump cut taxes for the wealthy and didn't build a wall.  That's his resume.  


“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32811 on: June 11, 2024, 11:11:36 PM »
Trump cut taxes for the wealthy and didn't build a wall.  That's his resume. 



Actually Congress passed the tax plan which benefited a lot of folks.  

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32812 on: June 11, 2024, 11:15:29 PM »
a lot of wealthy folks in poor people's minds
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32813 on: June 11, 2024, 11:44:55 PM »
a lot of wealthy folks in poor people's minds
Yes, a lot of folks not in need.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32814 on: June 12, 2024, 12:14:16 AM »
Trump cut taxes for the wealthy and didn't build a wall.  That's his resume. 
unfortunately this is for the most part true. he talked a great game about draining the swamp, fixing health care, and bringing all the jobs home (was never going to happen) and yada yada yada. problem is he hired pretty much all swamp creatures to advise him. evil rotten run of the mill psychopath scumbags like Mike Pompeo and John Bolton. 

having said all that, he was better on trade than his predecessors and he was FAR better than them as well when it came to reigning in the American imperial mass death and destruction war machine and mindlessly starting new wars or funding new proxy wars. And that to me is likely the reason why the establishment in DC hated the guy- because basically everything else they wanted- he was basically on board for- except unlimited war.

in his defense though, i do believe he flat out just got rolled by people a lot more shrewd and calculating than him. he's an ego maniac narcissist, all anyone had to do is kiss his ass and they were bound to have his ear and influence his decisions. it also didn't help him that the Clinton machine and it's allies in the intelligence deep state apparatus flat out tried bringing him down with fake Russia hoax after fake Russia hoax and then obviously COVID damaged the last year of his Presidency severely, as it would've any Presidents.

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32815 on: June 12, 2024, 12:20:14 AM »
Re: Trump. The crime was falsifying business records. The campaign finance issues are there because to make it a felony, he has to be shown to falsify business records "with the intent to defraud and intent to commit another crime and aid and conceal the commission thereof."

One of the issues (perhaps the main issue) is what responsibility the state has is saying what that crime was and proving it. Do they even need to do that? I'm not a fancy New York lawyer, but I imagine this will be at the heart of the appeal.

And as an example, recently I have been litigating whether the state needs to show a car is stolen to win a conviction for Receiving Stolen Property of said car. Surprisingly, a lot of argument there.
medina did a fantastic job tearing Bragg and that case to shreds. case is complete and utter horseshit, and it's a massive stretch to spin what MIGHT be (which it's unclear to me if it is even one) - a simple misdemeanor book keeping charge- into a felony under federal election law- which a state prosecutor has zero jurisdiction over in the first place. DOJ looked at that potential case and immediately said- there's nothing there there.

Manhattan is literally like 90% diehard DNC supporters/Trump haters. Dude was never going to get a fair trial there, period. I just did not think they'd actually convict him, especially when their "star" witness was someone who is as big of a piece of shit as Michael Cohen is- who is a proven liar convicted of god knows how many other felonies and who admitted during the trial of stealing like 50 or 60 thousand dollars from Trump. :043:

 

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