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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
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847badgerfan · « **Reply #45864 on:** **Today** at 11:02:23 AM »

I try to be covert when someone comes here from New York, Chicago, etc. I need to know their intentions.

Mdot21 · « **Reply #45865 on:** **Today** at 11:04:19 AM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on Today at 10:58:04 AM

With "insane tyrant from the shadows" are you referring to Robert Moses or some other Democrat Machine politician with whom I am less familiar?

I'll say this:
Yes, it still stands, but it can REALLY change things for the better or worse. I visited NYC in the spring of 1994 and it was a shithole. The crime was so bad that left-wing NYC elected Republican Rudy Giuliani to consecutive terms followed by Bloomberg who was nominally a Republican (and was very Republican, Law-and-Order) on crime for three terms. After my experience in 1994 I NEVER wanted to go back but my wife convinced me to take her to the Macy's Parade in the mid 2010s and I was pleasantly surprised. 20 years of the adults being in charge had REALLY cleaned the place up.

To put this in perspective, here is how NYC voted in the Presidential elections around that time:
1992: 69% Clinton (D), 24% Bush (R): D>R by 45%
1996: 77% Clinton (D), 17% Dole (R): D>R by 60%
2000: 78% Gore (D), 18% Bush (R): D>R by 60%
2004: 75% Kerry (D), 24% Bush (R): D>R by 51%
2008: 79% Obama (D), 20% McCain (R): D>R by 59%
2012: 81% Obama (D), 18% Romney (R): D>R by 63%
2016: 79% Clinton (D), 18% Trump (R): D>R by 61%

McCain in 2008 and Trump in 2016 did carry Staten Island and Staten Island was generally reasonably close in the other elections but the rest of the Boroughs were consistently Democratic blowouts.

My point is that crime was so bad that the VERY left leaning (see above) New Yorkers set aside their ideology to put actual adults in charge of the City to get the massive crime problem under control and it worked extremely well.

The murder rate in NYC in 1994 was through the roof and that is indicative of the rest of their crime rate. In addition to murders: Rapes, violent robberies, muggings, etc were all through the roof to the extent that it hurt their tourism industry. By the time Bloomberg left office the high crime days were so far in the past that the NYC electorate forgot why they elected adults in the first place and went back to electing morons. Unsurprisingly, crime has been rising.

it's actually insane to me that NYC doesn't have a higher crime rate when you take into account they jam who knows how many people into a small landmass. there are millions of residents- then take into account all the people traveling into the city for work, all the tourists, and the illegals - and that's probably millions more in the city at any given time.

MikeDeTiger · « **Reply #45866 on:** **Today** at 11:12:41 AM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on Today at 10:58:04 AM

I'll say this:
Yes, it still stands, but it can REALLY change things for the better or worse. I visited NYC in the spring of 1994 and it was a shithole. The crime was so bad that left-wing NYC elected Republican Rudy Giuliani to consecutive terms followed by Bloomberg who was nominally a Republican (and was very Republican, Law-and-Order) on crime for three terms. After my experience in 1994 I NEVER wanted to go back but my wife convinced me to take her to the Macy's Parade in the mid 2010s and I was pleasantly surprised. 20 years of the adults being in charge had REALLY cleaned the place up.

Went when I was a kid with my fam on vacation in the late 80's and again on a high school trip in 1997. I enjoyed the city and didn't feel unsafe, but I will caveat that by saying the first time I was too young to likely know any better, and the second time we were part of a Carnegie Hall production and were herded around the whole time by adults who knew the area and had planned everything out for us. I'm aware that tourists often come away with much more idealized versions of a place in their head than the people living there would agree with.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #45867 on:** **Today** at 11:27:07 AM »

I had two daughters live in NYC for several years. When we visited, it seemed "OK" crimewise. One lived in Manhattan Upper East side for 3 years and then moved to Brooklyn. My guess is today the more developed areas are still OK, some of the sketchier areas in Brooklyn etc. may have deteriorated.

Mdot21 · « **Reply #45868 on:** **Today** at 11:39:51 AM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on Today at 11:27:07 AM

I had two daughters live in NYC for several years. When we visited, it seemed "OK" crimewise. One lived in Manhattan Upper East side for 3 years and then moved to Brooklyn. My guess is today the more developed areas are still OK, some of the sketchier areas in Brooklyn etc. may have deteriorated.

well Manhattan has become so expensive to develop in and live in that a lot of development has gone out to Brooklyn- a lot of those areas in Brooklyn have been gentrified and now lot of the white rich kid starbucks drinking macbook toting capitalism hating liberals doing bullshit laptop jobs live there and the working class/poor have been/are being squeezed out.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #45869 on:** **Today** at 11:45:39 AM »

The cease fire seems to be holding, perhaps in part because both sides were running out of stuff.

One metric I watch is oil futures/prices, and they have dropped back to "normal" or close to it. We'll see what sort of "deal" might get struck, if any.

Kelly's Heroes (1970) - Crapgame Wants to Make a Deal
Kelly's Heroes (1970) - Crapgame Wants to Make a Deal

847badgerfan · « **Reply #45870 on:** **Today** at 11:47:14 AM »

Quote from: Mdot21 on Today at 11:39:51 AM

well Manhattan has become so expensive to develop in and live in that a lot of development has gone out to Brooklyn- a lot of those areas in Brooklyn have been gentrified and now lot of the white rich kid starbucks drinking macbook toting capitalism hating liberals doing bullshit laptop jobs live there and the working class/poor have been/are being squeezed out.

You have just described my nieces, who all live in Brooklyn now.

MikeDeTiger · « **Reply #45871 on:** **Today** at 11:57:45 AM »

Describes my nieces too, except for they live in Illinois, and one of them doesn't work because she has "mental health issues." The other one owns a hair salon.

Mdot21 · « **Reply #45872 on:** **Today** at 12:03:38 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on Today at 11:45:39 AM

The cease fire seems to be holding, perhaps in part because both sides were running out of stuff.

One metric I watch is oil futures/prices, and they have dropped back to "normal" or close to it. We'll see what sort of "deal" might get struck, if any.

Kelly's Heroes (1970) - Crapgame Wants to Make a Deal
Kelly's Heroes (1970) - Crapgame Wants to Make a Deal

I think it seems to be holding because Trump put his foot down on Israel. For once. And also because Israel was losing this war and was going to lose this war definitively without direct US involvement- and not to mention Israel already has their hands full running their genocide operation in Gaza, and are currently occupying parts of Lebanon & Syria- they point blank could not continue running wars on 4 fronts. Not to mention their "Iron Dome" was proven to be not much more than an ineffective extremely costly sieve- they were getting pounded by missiles and drones from Iran and I want to say the cost to shoot down one Iranian missile was 6-7x what it cost for Iran to send 1 missile. Do the math. Shit adds up.

Israel failed miserably here. Thankfully. Pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that they were trying to bait Trump into doing more than just one bombing run on a few nuclear sites- they were trying to get him sucked into their war- which as stated they could 100% absolutely not win without US direct involvement.

Also pretty obvious that Israel was trying to spark a regime change operation with this whole deal, which backfired hilariously. After their first wave of assassinations on Iranian government and military officials they tried using the Mossad to blackmail other top officials in Iran to make videos of surrender and support regime change and threatened to kill their wives & daughters if they did not capitulate- and not a single Iranian official did. They also tried shoving the fail-son of the long deposed deceased Iranian dictator onto the stage and make speeches in English to sell him to Western audiences- but that failed miserably as well. Americans don't want to be involved in any kind of regime change and well the people of Iran hate his father more than they hate this current government. There was no internal organic movement within that country to bring the son of the dead dictator back.

Turns out when you bomb someone- even if they don't like their government- they kind of rally around the flag and fucking hate you more for attacking them. No greater evidence of this than after 9/11 when Bush II's approval rating was in the high 90's and then once things went back to some sort of normalcy it fell off a cliff and he became one of the most unpopular Presidents ever.

SFBadger96 · « **Reply #45873 on:** **Today** at 12:09:46 PM »

Quote from: Mdot21 on Today at 11:39:51 AM

capitalism hating liberals doing bullshit laptop jobs live there and the working class/poor have been/are being squeezed out.

Just to be clear: you don't like people with well-paying jobs using their economic power to live in a place they can afford?
I'm trying to figure out who the capitalism haters are here...

847badgerfan · « **Reply #45874 on:** **Today** at 12:10:55 PM »

Mdot21 · « **Reply #45875 on:** **Today** at 12:11:04 PM »

Quote from: SFBadger96 on Today at 12:09:46 PM

Just to be clear: you don't like people with well-paying jobs using their economic power to live in a place they can afford?
I'm trying to figure out who the capitalism haters are here...

yeah no, re-read it and then maybe the lightbulb will click.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #45876 on:** **Today** at 12:11:56 PM »

847badgerfan · « **Reply #45877 on:** **Today** at 12:14:20 PM »

I'd take 8 years of Ike right now. Kennedy too.

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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

847badgerfan

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

Mdot21

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

MikeDeTiger

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

Cincydawg

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

Mdot21

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

Cincydawg

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

847badgerfan

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

MikeDeTiger

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

Mdot21

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

SFBadger96

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

847badgerfan

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

Mdot21

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

Cincydawg

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

847badgerfan

Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes