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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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MikeDeTiger

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Asbestos is especially tricky because there is one uncurable and terrible cancer that it is the only known cause of--although we are reasonably certain it isn't the only cause, it's the only known cause. That has been a boon to the mass tort lawyers in a way that no other substance (that I'm aware of) has benefited them. Also tricky because there is asbestos in the ambient air in a lot of places that has nothing to do with industrial asbestos exposure. It's a natural substance that is out there in the air we breath, even if we've never been near an asbestos-related product.

(To be fair to the zealots, we have probably all been near an asbestos-related product at some point--but the stuff is only dangerous if friable, and the amount of friable asbestos in the modern U.S. from asbestos-related products is pretty low.)

The cancer is mesothelioma, and for all practical purposes (that I'm aware of), asbestos is the only cause.  If you have mesothelioma, you've had contact with asbestos.  I've yet to hear of any instance where that's not true.  My wife has diagnosed many patients, unfortunately, and turned them over to oncology.  They generally aren't anyone's patient for very long.  

I just had a cousin die from it, he was exposed to asbestos many years ago, in his railroad career.  It's a crap cancer and a crap way to go, and watching him wither and die from it sucked.  Although I supposed there aren't many good cancers, except maybe Hodgkin Lymphoma in young people, which is pretty curable.  He was near enough to MD Anderson to go there, but it doesn't matter.  We can't hardly even slow that one down. 

847badgerfan

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Yep.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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It's not always clear what causes mesothelioma. Experts believe that being around asbestos causes many mesotheliomas. But not everyone with mesothelioma has been around asbestos. Exactly what causes the cancer may not be known.
Mesothelioma is a cancer that starts as a growth of cells in the mesothelium. The mesothelium is a thin layer of tissue that covers many internal organs.
Mesothelioma happens when cells in the mesothelium develop changes in their DNA. A cell's DNA holds the instructions that tell the cell what to do. In healthy cells, the DNA gives instructions to grow and multiply at a set rate. The instructions tell the cells to die at a set time.
In cancer cells, the DNA changes give other instructions. The DNA changes tell the cancer cells to make more cells quickly. Cancer cells can keep living when healthy cells would die. This causes too many cells.
The cancer cells might form a mass called a tumor. The tumor can grow to invade and destroy healthy body tissue. In time, cancer cells can break away and spread to other parts of the body. When cancer spreads, it's called metastatic cancer.



Mesothelioma - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic

MikeDeTiger

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https://www.wsj.com/economy/trade/surprise-u-s-china-trade-deal-gives-global-economy-a-big-reprieve-b486da7b?st=Z9okLo&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
https://www.wsj.com/economy/trade/surprise-u-s-china-trade-deal-gives-global-economy-a-big-reprieve-b486da7b?st=Z9okLo&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Furthers my theory that when Bessent speaks, or people listen to him, good things happen.  When Peter Navarro speaks, or people listen to him, bull-crappery ensues.  

SFBadger96

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The cancer is mesothelioma, and for all practical purposes (that I'm aware of), asbestos is the only cause.  If you have mesothelioma, you've had contact with asbestos.  I've yet to hear of any instance where that's not true.  My wife has diagnosed many patients, unfortunately, and turned them over to oncology.  They generally aren't anyone's patient for very long. 

I just had a cousin die from it, he was exposed to asbestos many years ago, in his railroad career.  It's a crap cancer and a crap way to go, and watching him wither and die from it sucked.  Although I supposed there aren't many good cancers, except maybe Hodgkin Lymphoma in young people, which is pretty curable.  He was near enough to MD Anderson to go there, but it doesn't matter.  We can't hardly even slow that one down. 
Yes, mesothelioma. And yes, asbestos exposure is the only known cause. But as CD points out, we know it happens without asbestos exposure as well--but most of the mesothelioma diagnoses can be tied to asbestos exposure.
And even as death by cancer goes, mesothelioma is particularly awful.

medinabuckeye1

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It is amazing how the survival rate for Mesothelioma hasn't really budged.  

According to a quick google that I did, the survival rates (meaning % alive 5 years after diagnosis) for Thyroid Cancer, Melanoma, Breast Cancer, and Testicular Cancer are all over 99% with the survival rates for many other types now exceeding 90%.  

That is a HUGE improvement basically in my lifetime.  My impression is that 50 years ago pretty much any cancer diagnosis was a death sentence.  For many types of cancer that simply isn't the case anymore and the vast majority of people who get them get treated and move on.  But if you google Mesothelioma the survival rate is <10% and the average lifespan after diagnosis is barely over a year.  

MikeDeTiger

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Multiple myeloma might be the next one down on the list.  My mother-in-law passed from that a few years ago. 

Patients at least have a shot at temporary remission with that one, but it's going to get them.  And when it comes back, it comes back with a vengeance.  And it's not a pretty way to go.  

MikeDeTiger

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It is amazing how the survival rate for Mesothelioma hasn't really budged. 

According to a quick google that I did, the survival rates (meaning % alive 5 years after diagnosis) for Thyroid Cancer, Melanoma, Breast Cancer, and Testicular Cancer are all over 99% with the survival rates for many other types now exceeding 90%. 

That is a HUGE improvement basically in my lifetime.  My impression is that 50 years ago pretty much any cancer diagnosis was a death sentence.  For many types of cancer that simply isn't the case anymore and the vast majority of people who get them get treated and move on.  But if you google Mesothelioma the survival rate is <10% and the average lifespan after diagnosis is barely over a year. 

This is pure conjecture worth precisely what you paid for it, and I'm no kind of medical professional.  I hypothesize that a major reason for what you mentioned is that many/most other cancers have much quicker diagnoses compared to mesothelioma.  The quicker you start treating the problem, obviously the better off you are.  I once asked Mrs. DeTiger about the massive delay in asbestos exposure and the onset of cancer.....I mean often we're talking multiple decades.  She said something about the way it works, how slow the process is that eventually becomes cancer.  I believe it has something to do with the lungs, where the problem originates (I'm going way off the reservation now, as far as if I remember this correctly), and due to the particular way the lungs operate compared to so many other organs, the time frame for the body to be affected such that cancer occurs, is longer.  When other cancers are diagnosed, I speculate that one is much closer to the external or genetic factor that lead to it, when treatment may be more helpful.  By the time mesothelioma is spotted, the body has been "processing" those asbestos fibers for years, and the patient is much further away from the triggering event. 

That theory has a flaw I can think of, so even if relevant, it's probably not the only factor.  

medinabuckeye1

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This is pure conjecture worth precisely what you paid for it, and I'm no kind of medical professional.  I hypothesize that a major reason for what you mentioned is that many/most other cancers have much quicker diagnoses compared to mesothelioma.  The quicker you start treating the problem, obviously the better off you are.  I once asked Mrs. DeTiger about the massive delay in asbestos exposure and the onset of cancer.....I mean often we're talking multiple decades.  She said something about the way it works, how slow the process is that eventually becomes cancer.  I believe it has something to do with the lungs, where the problem originates (I'm going way off the reservation now, as far as if I remember this correctly), and due to the particular way the lungs operate compared to so many other organs, the time frame for the body to be affected such that cancer occurs, is longer.  When other cancers are diagnosed, I speculate that one is much closer to the external or genetic factor that lead to it, when treatment may be more helpful.  By the time mesothelioma is spotted, the body has been "processing" those asbestos fibers for years, and the patient is much further away from the triggering event. 

That theory has a flaw I can think of, so even if relevant, it's probably not the only factor. 
That may be correct.  When I was in lawschool my family attorney got Pancreatic Cancer and ended up dying of it within less than a year.  I asked my Doctor friend (classmate in lawschool) why the survival rate for Pancreatic Cancer was so low.  His answer was that apparently there aren't any (or many) nerve endings in the Pancreas so you don't feel pain as a warning.  Instead, you just continue to function until it gets SO BAD that either the pancreas basically ceases to function or the growth expands and impacts adjoining organs.  By that time it is usually all over.  His theory was the Pancreatic Cancer would be relatively treatable if detected early but that it is almost never detected early.  

MikeDeTiger

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Yep.  Can confirm.  A few pancreatic cancer patients had the same story, as did an old friend's dad a few years ago.  They didn't know anything was wrong, and by the time they felt enough discomfort to make an appointment, they were just months away from forever. 

So.....PSA:  do your annual labs, you damned dirty apes.  Your doc may be able to catch no-telling-what earlier than you will feel a problem.  Your family, friends, and fellow pot-stirrers here would probably rather you not check out unnecessarily.  

SFBadger96

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The typical asbestos-related mesothelioma is a cancer of the lining that holds your lungs. It's not actually a lung cancer, it's a cancer of the sack around your lungs. The lay-person version of what happens is that the cancer causes the sack to harden and grow inward, essentially slowly squeezing your lungs until you can no longer breath. 

Asbestos fibers are apparently quite good at affixing themselves to the mesothelial sack, which, presumably, has something to do with attacking the cells in it.

And yeah, the die for mesothelioma (and most asbestos-related diseases) was generally cast decades ago. Nasty stuff.


medinabuckeye1

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Yep.  Can confirm.  A few pancreatic cancer patients had the same story, as did an old friend's dad a few years ago.  They didn't know anything was wrong, and by the time they felt enough discomfort to make an appointment, they were just months away from forever. 

So.....PSA:  do your annual labs, you damned dirty apes.  Your doc may be able to catch no-telling-what earlier than you will feel a problem.  Your family, friends, and fellow pot-stirrers here would probably rather you not check out unnecessarily. 
In the case of the aforementioned family attorney, when he finally DID go to the Doctor it was due to digestive issues that seemed (for his age/occupation/etc) to be consistent with ulcers so they spent a month or two looking down that rabbit hole before finally realizing it was something else.  By the time they found the actual cause it had spread throughout the area and I think he had cancer of the liver, intestines, spleen, Kidneys, and a few other things along with the pancreas where it originated.  Depending on the organ, Doctors may be able to remove a diseased this or that but they can't remove your pancreas, liver, intestines, spleen, and kidneys.  That isn't a surgery it is an autopsy.  It was the intestinal cancer that eventually did him in.  

ELA

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