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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42616 on: March 04, 2025, 03:51:30 PM »
wild...not surprising though. Alex Acosta who was the US Attorney for the Southern District of Florida and who prosecuted Epstein for his sex crimes in 2007 and cut a plea deal with him said he was told from above that Epstein "belonged to intelligence" and to cut him a sweetheart deal.

dude was probably Mossad and known to the CIA. gotta protect Israel at all costs of course- and not make CIA look like scumbags for knowing about him and allowing him to operate inside the US and applying pressure to get him out of dodge in 2007.


https://twitter.com/martyrmade/status/1896931188629196810

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42617 on: March 04, 2025, 03:53:46 PM »
They’re good at raising prices, as a basic level.

It’s one of the tricky parts of free trade. The diffuse benefits/concentrated costs challenge.

I think the argument that proponents try to make in their favor (somebody would have to check me on this, it's been literally decades since I took econ classes) is that higher costs in imported goods is offset by the stimulated economy (which, iirc, does have some legs, things that make sense and historical data to support it).  

What Friedman and Sowell argued, I believe, is that the stimulation in economy has to be seen as at least somewhat false, because jobs created in a tariff situation are actually instead of--not in addition to--other jobs that could've been created had the economy been stimulated via other means than tariffs.  

I'm definitely oversimplifying it, and possibly botching it altogether.  Mainly just trying to make myself see if I can remember any specifics at all.  

At any rate, I'm super against them, and if anybody needs me to, I can yell about it loudly on the internet, cuz I'm definitely an expert, cuz I repeated some guys I read one time. 

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42618 on: March 04, 2025, 04:59:33 PM »
the tariffs are a ploy to get as much production back into US as humanely possible. And I'm cool with it, even if there is some short term pain, if it ultimately works. US companies and importers are pretty damn good at sourcing- and when people aren't buying their products and their sales are crashing- they'll adjust. The smart ones will be the ones adjusting quickly and before the other players. It's pretty simple- if they don't want to pay tariffs they'll shift production here or to somewhere else where the US is not imposing tariffs.

Tariffs on cars or car parts should be so astronomically high that GM, Ford, and Chrysler (now Stellantis) would never want to build cars or parts anywhere but here- or they should flat out be barred by law from manufacturing any car or car component for themselves or any subsidiaries they own in part or whole anywhere but inside the US. It's a crying fucking shame they were ever allowed to shift production in Canada or Mexico because of NAFTA in the first place. 

And as far as the foreign auto makers go- well Chinese EVs sold here (they aren't yet, eventually could be) should either have to by law be manufactured here and JV with American companies and have forced tech transfer (like they do to us in their country), or banned from ever being sold here, or have 5,000% tariffs so ridiculously high they'd never sell any. Throw the gauntlet down on the Germans, Japanese, and Koreans as well while we're at it. Those motherfuckers either tariff our cars and barely buy any of our cars (EU) or don't buy our cars at all (Japan, SK) - but we buy a fuck load of their cars. 

free trade agreements don't exist- there is no such thing as free trade- and those agreements have never been about free trade, they are simply investors rights agreements with all sorts of lunacy attached to them- mediators that have jurisdiction over member countries courts and legal systems in trade disputes- no like for like equal protections for workers or environment- they weaken labor make unionizing virtually impossible- in a word: they are bullshit. All NAFTA did was shift manufacturing production from the US to somewhere cheaper and allow for the importation of those goods or cars or car parts from Mexico or Canada back into the US and avoid tariffs- while simultaneously allowing the flooding of Mexico with cheap US BigAG products which put millions of small and medium sized Mexican farmers out of business. 

Ross Perot was dead on the money about "free trade agreements" NAFTA back in the '92 election, of course everyone laughed and smirked at him- but the man was dead right. 


Quote
"We have got to stop sending jobs overseas. It's pretty simple: If you're paying $12, $13, $14 an hour for factory workers and you can move your factory south of the border, pay a dollar an hour for labor, ... have no health care—that's the most expensive single element in making a car—have no environmental controls, no pollution controls and no retirement, and you don't care about anything but making money, there will be a giant sucking sound going south. ... when [Mexico's] jobs come up from a dollar an hour to six dollars an hour, and ours go down to six dollars an hour, and then it's leveled again. But in the meantime, you've wrecked the country with these kinds of deals."

Give 'em hell. Tariff the fucking shit out of Mexico, Canada, and China.

utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42619 on: March 04, 2025, 05:12:49 PM »
the tariffs are a ploy to get as much production back into US as humanely possible. And I'm cool with it, even if there is some short term pain, if it ultimately works. US companies and importers are pretty damn good at sourcing- and when people aren't buying their products and their sales are crashing- they'll adjust. The smart ones will be the ones adjusting quickly and before the other players. It's pretty simple- if they don't want to pay tariffs they'll shift production here or to somewhere else where the US is not imposing tariffs.

Tariffs on cars or car parts should be so astronomically high that GM, Ford, and Chrysler (now Stellantis) would never want to build cars or parts anywhere but here- or they should flat out be barred by law from manufacturing any car or car component for themselves or any subsidiaries they own in part or whole anywhere but inside the US. It's a crying fucking shame they were ever allowed to shift production in Canada or Mexico because of NAFTA in the first place.


Give 'em hell. Tariff the fucking shit out of Mexico, Canada, and China.


This is the general idea in theory of course but there's conflicting evidence on whether or not it ever actually works.  What we know is that short term it drives up prices and creates inflation.  Long term there's no conclusive evidence that proves it achieves its goals.  This is why I tend to support positive incentives for domestic production rather than negative tariffs on imported goods. 

Riffraft

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42620 on: March 04, 2025, 06:29:26 PM »
by the way this war of the words with Canada- I am loving it. they want to cancel their trips to Florida....PLEASE DO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. That will show the US! Do it! Please!

these dumb maple syrup slupring monkeys come down here from Dec-April just congesting the roads and driving like absolute retards going slow in the fast lane and not using blinkers and getting all confused on the highways cause they don't know the exits or express lanes or where they are going because they are on their gps to get anywhere.

Forget tariffs, I would love it if we could deport and then ban all Canadians from coming into Florida forever.
Wouldnt mind losing a bunch of canadians here in Phoenix either.  They are filling up the tee times. 

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42621 on: March 04, 2025, 08:59:51 PM »
This is the general idea in theory of course but there's conflicting evidence on whether or not it ever actually works.  What we know is that short term it drives up prices and creates inflation.  Long term there's no conclusive evidence that proves it achieves its goals.  This is why I tend to support positive incentives for domestic production rather than negative tariffs on imported goods.
I am actually in agreement with you on the latter part. I would be more in favor of providing incentives to promote domestic production.

Having said that, a lot of these tariffs with Mexico and Canada are going to be related to the auto industry- which is just a case of US auto companies having plants in Mexico or Canada to build cars/car parts or assemble cars and then ship them back into America. To be clear- these are not actually Mexican or Canadian goods- they are US goods that US based multi-billion dollar mulit-national auto manufacturing giants shifted in whole or part production to Mexico or Canada to cut production costs. And I am all for those tariffs and US auto companies eating those fucking import tariffs fees, because: FUCK THEM.

Hopefully they will have so much pain inflicted upon them in the next couple years that they shut down all their plants in Canada and Mexico and move them back into the Midwest.

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42622 on: March 04, 2025, 09:04:13 PM »
sorry that last post really got me going. Obama bailed out GM & Chrysler (now Stellantis) & Ford with US taxpayer money - Biden bailed out Ford again in 2023- as a condition of those bailouts/loans it should have forced them all to cease all manufacturing and production in Mexico and Canada and move production back to the United States within a 10 year window- and barred by law any future production in Mexico or Canada- as well as for any affiliated subcontractor or parts supplier wholly or partly owned by GM/Chrysler/Ford.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2025, 09:09:25 PM by Mdot21 »

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42623 on: March 04, 2025, 09:10:33 PM »
maybe Trump's insane Gaza plan really was a ploy to get the Arabs to actually do something....


https://twitter.com/allenanalysis/status/1897041671378112722


add starting negotiations with Iran on a nuclear deal to the list...


https://twitter.com/dickfairthorne/status/1897076903028408448



OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42624 on: March 04, 2025, 09:41:18 PM »
This is the general idea in theory of course but there's conflicting evidence on whether or not it ever actually works.  What we know is that short term it drives up prices and creates inflation.  Long term there's no conclusive evidence that proves it achieves its goals.  
Because the outcry from the higher prices and inflation ceases the practice.  

There's no evidence on the long-term effects of jumping off a cliff, either...for the same reason.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42625 on: March 04, 2025, 10:03:56 PM »
One thing to remember about autos and tariffs is that we probably sell quite a few cars and trucks to Mexico and China. Sure, they may not be the same ones we sell here, but there are a lot of GM, Ford, and Chrysler ( or Stellantis ) vehicles being sold there. 

I’m not sure yet how I feel about the tariffs. One part of me can’t imagine anything manufactured in Canada being any cheaper than in the US, unless the location to raw materials is any cheaper. I can see how Mexico would maybe be cheaper. 

I honestly think Trump intentionally manufactures a lot of this stuff as more of a distraction than anything else. It just seems so random and weird.  Gulf of Mexico/America, new tariffs on a country that most Americans don’t give a second thought to. 

Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42626 on: March 04, 2025, 10:08:18 PM »
From an earlier post on the tax district.  I’ve heard they can ask to inspect your house. You can refuse.  They use satellite imagery as well for the outside. I know this for a fact because when I protested last year they had a much better picture/ resolution than what you can see on Google Earth or other mapping programs. I’ve heard they use drones as well. 

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42627 on: March 05, 2025, 12:29:33 AM »
One thing to remember about autos and tariffs is that we probably sell quite a few cars and trucks to Mexico and China. Sure, they may not be the same ones we sell here, but there are a lot of GM, Ford, and Chrysler ( or Stellantis ) vehicles being sold there.

I’m not sure yet how I feel about the tariffs. One part of me can’t imagine anything manufactured in Canada being any cheaper than in the US, unless the location to raw materials is any cheaper. I can see how Mexico would maybe be cheaper.

I honestly think Trump intentionally manufactures a lot of this stuff as more of a distraction than anything else. It just seems so random and weird.  Gulf of Mexico/America, new tariffs on a country that most Americans don’t give a second thought to.
we really don't though. cars, trucks, motor vehicle parts, delivery trucks, trailers & semi-trailers alone account for $110+ billion in exports of Mexico's $450 some billion in exports to the US. this is mainly just US auto manufacturing US goods on the cheap in Mexico to sell in the US. The top 5 selling car brands in Mexico? Nissan, Chevrolet, Kia, Toyota, Volkswagen. So, only 1 US company even cracks the top, GM. And there were only about 1.5 million autos sold in all of Mexico in 2024- which makes sense- it's a poor country with massive wealth inequality- and in terms of US exports to Mexico- we only export about $4 billion a year worth of cars & trucks to Mexico. So, not a lot.

China is a different story- it's the largest car market in the world- and US autos have been selling tens of millions of cars there for like 20 years now- but of course the Chinese don't play fair. They forced GM, Ford, and Stellantis to start JV's with Chinese state backed companies in order to even gain entry into the market- and also forced them to transfer company trade secrets & technology to the Chinese state backed companies- and oh yeah they had to be the junior partner in these joint venture deals. Any sane rational person owning/running a company would tell the Chinese government to fuck right off and go fuck yourself- the morons running these companies did not of course- as chasing the quick easy right here right now buck at the expense of selling your company and it's future out in the long run and perhaps even your own country out to an extent is obviously what matters most.

I don't think the tariffs with Mexico or Canada are random or weird. He's trying to bully US companies into relocating production from Canada and Mexico back into the United States. About god damn time someone did something about it.

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42628 on: March 05, 2025, 10:36:11 AM »
I think the argument that proponents try to make in their favor (somebody would have to check me on this, it's been literally decades since I took econ classes) is that higher costs in imported goods is offset by the stimulated economy (which, iirc, does have some legs, things that make sense and historical data to support it). 

What Friedman and Sowell argued, I believe, is that the stimulation in economy has to be seen as at least somewhat false, because jobs created in a tariff situation are actually instead of--not in addition to--other jobs that could've been created had the economy been stimulated via other means than tariffs. 

I'm definitely oversimplifying it, and possibly botching it altogether.  Mainly just trying to make myself see if I can remember any specifics at all. 

At any rate, I'm super against them, and if anybody needs me to, I can yell about it loudly on the internet, cuz I'm definitely an expert, cuz I repeated some guys I read one time.
I remain somewhat skeptical of a plan that is anchored by the idea that we all are going to pay more so a smaller segment of people can have somewhat, but not bombastically better jobs.

tariffs strike me as an interesting tool to hold onto certain things. But with how interwoven everything is now, it seems like a tough sell when it comes to repatriating business. It feels like there’s an interesting momentum factor there when it comes to job skills.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42629 on: March 05, 2025, 10:38:42 AM »
Tariffs on Chinese imports make some sense to me, there is little they can do to respond.  And China is not our friend.  This would shift production to other parts of Asia which already has happened for other reasons.

 

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