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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41468 on: January 28, 2025, 10:43:43 AM »
Do homes there have basements?
Doubtful.  Basements aren't a thing in Texico.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41469 on: January 28, 2025, 11:25:08 AM »
Question for you BRAD.....how much per year does a person/couple have to make to be able to afford a typical middle class house in your area?  Because honestly, I don't see how ANYBODY can afford to live out there. 

$500,000 here would buy you a brand new ~2,000 sq ft home on one acre with a concrete driveway and probably at least a hot tub or swimming pool.  And a well and septic.  And up until maybe 10 years ago, $200,000 would buy you the same home here. 
Around here, it's simply nearly impossible to go from "owning nothing" to "owning a middle class house in early 2025"... But a big portion of that is that housing prices have more than doubled in <10 years. 

I just looked up the house I bought in 2010 and had to sell in 2016 when I got divorced. It was a typical middle class home here. 1450 sf, 3 bd 2.5 ba, single family home in a nice clean quiet neighborhood in south Orange County. If I look at the sale history:

  • Feb 2002: $352K
  • Dec 2010: $470K (note the value of the home massively exceeded 470K around the 2005-2007 time frame in the last bubble, would probably have been $700K or higher, then the housing market imploded)
  • June 2016: $639K (closer to what I think the "true" value is after it recovered from the Great Recession)
  • June 2024: $1.12M


I don't know how anyone could come from zero in the housing market to buy that middle class house today, which is what my ex and I did in 2010 which was basically exactly the market bottom after the Great Recession. What most people end up doing around here is getting on the real estate rollercoaster with something smaller (condo/etc) when younger and try to ride the equity wave up. But even so, $1.12M for that house is insanity pricing. 

I personally think SoCal is in another bubble, because we have what is fundamentally an unsustainable affordability problem. But as has been hashed out quite a bit, right now the prices are partially sustained because nobody is willing to sell, especially if they have low mortgage interest rates, so the very few houses that ARE available are still commanding these high prices. So the prices are kept high because even though demand at these prices is pretty low, supply is even lower. 

IMHO something has to give, and it's happened in SoCal many times over the years. There was a correction in the early 90s when the aerospace industry ran into problems. Then everything went bubble-tastic in the early-mid 2000s with the subprime bubble. IMHO I think the market has to correct, but I don't know what it's going to take to prick the bubble and let the air out... 

utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41470 on: January 28, 2025, 11:41:10 AM »
Around here, it's simply nearly impossible to go from "owning nothing" to "owning a middle class house in early 2025"... But a big portion of that is that housing prices have more than doubled in <10 years.

I just looked up the house I bought in 2010 and had to sell in 2016 when I got divorced. It was a typical middle class home here. 1450 sf, 3 bd 2.5 ba, single family home in a nice clean quiet neighborhood in south Orange County. If I look at the sale history:

  • Feb 2002: $352K
  • Dec 2010: $470K (note the value of the home massively exceeded 470K around the 2005-2007 time frame in the last bubble, would probably have been $700K or higher, then the housing market imploded)
  • June 2016: $639K (closer to what I think the "true" value is after it recovered from the Great Recession)
  • June 2024: $1.12M


I don't know how anyone could come from zero in the housing market to buy that middle class house today, which is what my ex and I did in 2010 which was basically exactly the market bottom after the Great Recession. What most people end up doing around here is getting on the real estate rollercoaster with something smaller (condo/etc) when younger and try to ride the equity wave up. But even so, $1.12M for that house is insanity pricing.

I personally think SoCal is in another bubble, because we have what is fundamentally an unsustainable affordability problem. But as has been hashed out quite a bit, right now the prices are partially sustained because nobody is willing to sell, especially if they have low mortgage interest rates, so the very few houses that ARE available are still commanding these high prices. So the prices are kept high because even though demand at these prices is pretty low, supply is even lower.

IMHO something has to give, and it's happened in SoCal many times over the years. There was a correction in the early 90s when the aerospace industry ran into problems. Then everything went bubble-tastic in the early-mid 2000s with the subprime bubble. IMHO I think the market has to correct, but I don't know what it's going to take to prick the bubble and let the air out...

Raging wildfires burning up some of the available property sure isn't going to help.  Creating even further scarcity of supply, will be headed the wrong way, for the average folks.

It's similar here, though not to the same level as SoCal.

Our original house that my wife and I bought in 2001, we paid $120K for a 1400 sqft house in the "near suburbs" of Austin, which are now considered almost centrally located.  When we moved out in 2012, I could have sold that house for about $400K, but we chose to keep it as a rental.  Currently houses around it that are appropriate comps, are selling for $600K.  At the peak a couple of years ago, comparable houses were selling for up to $750K.  It would be extremely difficult for a young couple that was in our situation 24 years ago, to purchase that house today.  So they either rent, or look further out.

Of course, that's exactly what WE did at the time, too. Moving further out is nothing new.  We had to look further out to the "near suburbs" because I couldn't afford a house in the same neighborhood where my parents lived, or my wife's parents lived, both of which were much closer to the city center.  My folks bought their house in 1969 for $30,000.  My wife's parents bought their house in 1980 for $80,000.  At the time we were buying, my parents' house would have cost over $300K and my wife's folks' house would have been $500K, and now both would sell for over a million.

So although this current wave might seem exaggerated, it's not a new thing.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41471 on: January 28, 2025, 11:42:33 AM »
I think e newish thing is having "corporations" buying single family properties in numbers as investments.

I used to invest some in REITs but sold them all fearing the markets were frothy and them some.

Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41472 on: January 28, 2025, 11:47:24 AM »
Do homes there have basements?
:)  You're shittin' me right?  

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41473 on: January 28, 2025, 11:49:35 AM »
:)  You're shittin' me right? 

Curious.
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utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41474 on: January 28, 2025, 11:51:04 AM »
Curious.
Yeah we don't get any hidden square footage adders here in Texico.  What you got, is what you got.

Of course, like Florida, you can make use of your outdoor living spaces pretty much year-round.

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41475 on: January 28, 2025, 11:57:19 AM »
Yeah we don't get any hidden square footage adders here in Texico.  What you got, is what you got.

Of course, like Florida, you can make use of your outdoor living spaces pretty much year-round.
For sure.

In the Midwest, kids need a place to play in the winter.

Fun fact: Basements in Chicago were originally intended for stormwater storage.
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bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41476 on: January 28, 2025, 11:58:31 AM »
Around here, it's simply nearly impossible to go from "owning nothing" to "owning a middle class house in early 2025"... But a big portion of that is that housing prices have more than doubled in <10 years.

I just looked up the house I bought in 2010 and had to sell in 2016 when I got divorced. It was a typical middle class home here. 1450 sf, 3 bd 2.5 ba, single family home in a nice clean quiet neighborhood in south Orange County. If I look at the sale history:

  • Feb 2002: $352K
  • Dec 2010: $470K (note the value of the home massively exceeded 470K around the 2005-2007 time frame in the last bubble, would probably have been $700K or higher, then the housing market imploded)
  • June 2016: $639K (closer to what I think the "true" value is after it recovered from the Great Recession)
  • June 2024: $1.12M


I don't know how anyone could come from zero in the housing market to buy that middle class house today, which is what my ex and I did in 2010 which was basically exactly the market bottom after the Great Recession. What most people end up doing around here is getting on the real estate rollercoaster with something smaller (condo/etc) when younger and try to ride the equity wave up. But even so, $1.12M for that house is insanity pricing.

I personally think SoCal is in another bubble, because we have what is fundamentally an unsustainable affordability problem. But as has been hashed out quite a bit, right now the prices are partially sustained because nobody is willing to sell, especially if they have low mortgage interest rates, so the very few houses that ARE available are still commanding these high prices. So the prices are kept high because even though demand at these prices is pretty low, supply is even lower.

IMHO something has to give, and it's happened in SoCal many times over the years. There was a correction in the early 90s when the aerospace industry ran into problems. Then everything went bubble-tastic in the early-mid 2000s with the subprime bubble. IMHO I think the market has to correct, but I don't know what it's going to take to prick the bubble and let the air out...
Ca is a weird place when it comes to the idea of a housing bubble.

I’ve long thought, this has to be a bubble, right? And then it won’t pop for two decades.

Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41477 on: January 28, 2025, 12:12:04 PM »
Curious.
Well, do homes in Florida have basements?  

To answer your question, I'm not aware of any homes in my county that have basements.  I do know of some private and public buildings that have basements.  Not to say that no homes in my county have basements, but I've never heard of anyone having one, never seen one listed on a house for sale, and it's just generally unheard of here.  

Being located about ~10-20 miles from the Gulf of America, the ground doesn't lend itself to basements.  

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41478 on: January 28, 2025, 12:21:23 PM »
Well, do homes in Florida have basements? 

To answer your question, I'm not aware of any homes in my county that have basements.  I do know of some private and public buildings that have basements.  Not to say that no homes in my county have basements, but I've never heard of anyone having one, never seen one listed on a house for sale, and it's just generally unheard of here. 

Being located about ~10-20 miles from the Gulf of America, the ground doesn't lend itself to basements. 
No basements here that I know of. Water tables are too high. We are a mile to the Gulf.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41479 on: January 28, 2025, 12:35:47 PM »
Raging wildfires burning up some of the available property sure isn't going to help.  Creating even further scarcity of supply, will be headed the wrong way, for the average folks.
Yeah, I thought about that. It's going to take a long time for Palisades to rebuild. That's going to be a lot of people who are looking for places to live, or who decide they're leaving Palisades and moving elsewhere. About the only positive thing for me is the distance--while there might be a ripple effect outward from there, nobody who lives/works anywhere near Palisades/LA wants to be in south OC. The commute would be unbearable. 

But ultimately we've had thousands or tens of thousands of homes burn up, and the supply loss up there will certainly affect us even if it's not as bad as the nearby areas. 

I think e newish thing is having "corporations" buying single family properties in numbers as investments.

I used to invest some in REITs but sold them all fearing the markets were frothy and them some.
I've heard about it, but I don't know how big the numbers are. That said, if there is a prick in the bubble and rents start dropping, corporations might get some cold feet and start trying to unload properties before other corporations do it so they're not the last one holding the bag... I assume that if you were investing in REITs but pulled out, there are other investors that are sketchy on where it's going too... That could be the reason the bubble goes. 

Ca is a weird place when it comes to the idea of a housing bubble.

I’ve long thought, this has to be a bubble, right? And then it won’t pop for two decades.
Up in the Bay Area it's even more weird. I'm not sure the Bay Area is a bubble. There is just SO much damn money there with Silicon Valley that I think the insanity might actually be sustainable. IMHO SoCal doesn't have anything remotely like that, so the fact that real estate values have gotten so divorced from affordability means IMHO it has to go pop sometime... But up there in the Bay, prices are insane but so are the incomes. 

jgvol

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41480 on: January 28, 2025, 12:37:19 PM »
No basements in the regions needing them most --- Tornado Alley.  

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41481 on: January 28, 2025, 12:44:42 PM »
I dumped the REITs 6-7 years back mostly because of commercial space going wanting, but one was in residential and it went as well.

My realtor friend here says it's a real issue locally, corporations buying up single family and pushing prices higher.  My daughter listed a house she had in Columbus, OH for $200 K and it sold in one day for $240 K, to some corporate entity.


 

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