Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)

[SFBadger96]

In my model, spending would be flat, it's just that nearly all of the money would go to citizens, instead of bureaucracies in DC trying to check to make sure fraud and abuse are as low as possible.  It would clear out enormous amounts of paperwork.  It would NOT solve social problems very well, but I'd argue the current approach doesn't either.

I think it would need a means test.  No HUD, no SNAP., no Welfare, no Medicaid, no nothing, but a simple check (or debit card).  My Department of Education would also be simple, a block grant to school systems with an inadequate tax base.  Here's a check, bye.  If they waste it, so be it.

I understand the argument, but the, "if they waste it, so be it" argument screws the people whose school board (or whatever) wasted it on their account, including those who didn't want it the way the local majority decided. Majorities don't have great histories of protecting the rights of minorities, whether those are civil rights of the kind represented in the Bill of Rights, or whether those are rights to access government benefits.  

A common response is, "if you don't like the way this jurisdiction operates, move to another one." But that fails to take into account how difficult moving is for the most economically vulnerable populations. It also takes a fairly dismissive view of how important social fabric--feeling like one belongs--is to the human species.

Another example of problems with local control occurs here in California. A current debate rages about how to address the housing shortage. Everyone in the state seems to realize that we have a housing shortage, and there is fairly strong majority support for building new housing. But zoning decisions have traditionally been local government decisions, and NIMBY-ism is strong just about everywhere. Even though a majority of residents in any given town wants more housing built, they don't want it built in their town. One way to address this is at the state level, where the state takes over the zoning decisions as they relate to housing. Of course, that has people up in arms, too (because of the loss of local control). But as with at the federal level regarding civil rights, if the local jurisdiction continues to build roadblocks to addressing a known problem, at some point the higher authority will step in.

Balancing these interests is hard.

[Mdot21]

I have a quarter notion the Democratic nominee with be Cuomo.

I don’t think he’s interested in running for president. He’s said as much. And I know he’s playing this dignified leader on tv, but- he ain’t. NYC and NY state officials handled this thing terribly from day one, and that’s why it’s become center of the pandemic in the US where half of all cases in this entire country are. 

Biden has the nomination in the bag now imo. 

[847badgerfan]

Here's a check?

I'd rather it be "Here's a job".

All of these "programs" and free shit we have is what continues to hold these people down. We need to give them hope, starting with better opportunities for education, and get them working in good jobs. That's the fix.

[MichiFan87]

I think we've discussed UBI before, and I'm definitely a proponent of it. It's been tested in a few different places with mixed results. Eventually some European countries will probably be the first adopters of it on a large scale, and hopefully that will go well. Time will tell, though....

That said, studies already show that UBI doesn't really affect whether someone decides to work or not, but that's going to be a moot point as more jobs are automated, anyway.

[Cincydawg]

That would be the fix, but it isn't working.  My dad worked in Vocational Rehabilitation in the GA Prison System.  His efforts paid off on occasion, but for the most part, well, 70% would be back within 2 years of release.

[CWSooner]

Our original government only allowed for one Federal office directly elected by popular vote (the House), and voters were all white property owners.

Our Founders were scared of "democracy" almost as much as they were monarchy.  They wanted a very limited government installed mainly by the Powers that Be (sort of the Deep State of 1783 in effect).  Electors were meant to vote for who they thought was the best candidate.  Voters voted for electors to make their own decision when it was time to vote.  Electors were not supposed to be "political" (ha).

The country was not designed to be anything like a democracy because it was designed largely by wealthy highly educated white men who wanted to keep power to wealthy educated white men.

I think you've overstated the case.  I don't know that there were black/nonwhite voters in any states in 1789, but I don't know that there weren't either.  But I do know that a higher percentage of the population got to vote in 1789 America than could vote anywhere else in the world.
But you're right about the Framers fearing democracy.  It was "mob rule" in their view, and they could find no historical examples of a democracy that had ever lasted very long.  The general historical pattern was democracy descending into chaos and then rescued by a strong leader who would establish a tyranny.  We are the longest-lived democracy, and things are not going too well with us.
In Lincoln's time, "the democracy" was how people referred to the Democratic Party.

[Mdot21]

Here's a check?

I'd rather it be "Here's a job".

All of these "programs" and free shit we have is what continues to hold these people down. We need to give them hope, starting with better opportunities for education, and get them working in good jobs. That's the fix.

The government is already the largest employer in this country. That’s not even accounting all the independent contractors they have hired to replace fired govt employees- whose salaries the govt ultimately pays.

Sometimes the poor and people down on their luck need a little bit of help. The problem is with the corruption and abuse of the system/programs. These programs weren’t meant for people to stay on indefinitely. And programs like Medicare/Medicaid have +/- $100 billion annually in fraud. Every 10 years that’s a trillion f’ing dollars.

And a lot of that fraud is committed by wealthy doctors. I knew a lady who was a wealthy eye doctor that got caught by the Feds billing Medicare for all different kinds of procedures she claimed she did- problem is she was at the Olympics, at Wimbledon, in Monaco- all over the world when she claimed she was doing medical procedures. Literally only reason she got caught is because her office manager/billing lady got hooked on drugs, got fired, became a craigslist hooker to support he drug habit, and then tried black-mailing the Dr for $20,000.

The Dr told her to F off and this drug addicted hooker went and got an attorney and the attorney contacted the FBI and the rest is history. Amazingly the Dr didn’t lose her license to practice medicine or go to jail, and made a plea deal with the Feds to pay $1.3 million back and got a slap on the wrist.

The fired meth hooker got a whistle blower fee of 15% I want to say. Moral of the story? If you’re guilty as sin and someone tries black-mailing you just pay them off.

There’s no easy fix for anything. There’s always going to be pros and cons to everything and unforeseen and unintended consequences of anything you try and do.

[betarhoalphadelta]

IMHO, we should avoid discussions of particular politicians, primaries, nominations, elections, etc in this thread.

[OrangeAfroMan]

Biden has the nomination in the bag now imo.

He had it the whole time.

[CWSooner]

I've been reading a lot about school being out, and the need for school districts to provide meals to kids. I've been aware that Chicago has been doing this for a long time. What I've found through this is how widespread the practice has become.

My kids didn't get fed in school. I know for sure I didn't, because I still remember my Speed Racer lunch box.

When did schools become free restaurants? Is this a thing all over the country?

Many schools/school districts provide not only free lunches but free breakfasts.  Sometimes means-tested, sometimes not.

[bayareabadger]

I inquired about this same issue.  Apparently, these hungry kids have programs over the summer when school is out to get breakfast and lunch!

My parents paid for my meals in and out of school

I paid for my daughters meals in and out of school

when did this change that now I'm helping to pay for everyone's kids meals for the rest of my life???  Not sure I got to vote on this....

In the darkest sense, it's a cost saver for you.

If you don't extend that net and kids go super hungry, eventually that's a crime. Parents get locked up, which you pay for. Kids go to foster care, which you pay for. We get a mess of court proceedings, which you pay for. 

Can't deny folks the right to have kids and can't make parents not have problems or be very crappy at it. 

[Mdot21]

He had it the whole time.

I think you’re right. The only one who could’ve really snatched it from him was Bernie Sanders imo. 

But in order for him to do that, Bernie would’ve had to gotten dirty and went on the offensive and gone after Biden. Bernie blew his shot.

It was more wide open for him to get in there and get down and dirty and take it this time around than last. He failed to go on the offensive with Biden and now he’s gone.

[OrangeAfroMan]

poor must have a higher threshold than in the past
not surprising

it's just odd to me that if a kid sin't in school for a few days that kid doesn't get a meal or two

I suppose it takes a village and some of my money

I guess they wanted to make sure every kid got something to eat, huh?

[Kris60]

I qualified for free lunch all through school but my parents always paid for my lunch.

Besides, when I was in school they had different colored lunch tickets if they were free and the teacher would call all the paid kids up to  receive their tickets and then all the free kids up to receive theirs. It was a terrible way to do it and caused a lot of ridicule amongst the kids.