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Topic: Frosty Man v. Frosty Malt (Aug. 28 SOC)

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MaximumSam

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Re: Frosty Man v. Frosty Malt (Aug. 28 SOC)
« Reply #140 on: August 30, 2021, 06:56:10 AM »
My understanding is that ESPN puts together the high school games they air.  It's not like they just sift through the normal Friday night lights, and pick out the best games. I don't think a team from Ohio is traveling down to play a team from Florida without ESPN footing part of the bill, right?

I mean the team just played a team from near Pittsburgh 2 days ago
I didn't watch the game but on Twitter people talked about the announcers basically saying they got duped.

bayareabadger

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Re: Frosty Man v. Frosty Malt (Aug. 28 SOC)
« Reply #141 on: August 30, 2021, 07:28:23 AM »
My understanding is that ESPN puts together the high school games they air.  It's not like they just sift through the normal Friday night lights, and pick out the best games. I don't think a team from Ohio is traveling down to play a team from Florida without ESPN footing part of the bill, right?

I mean the team just played a team from near Pittsburgh 2 days ago
They use a booking service. And I read somewhere the schools make like $1,000 a game. I assume most of the big schools make the trips because they're big schools with crazy booster clubs that foot bills. And let's face it, if a school wants to play two games in three days, it's probably not doing much that makes sense.

And lets face it, if that team IMG body bagged got body bagged with a couple four-stars, it would mostly be shrugged off, even if it was a fly by night fake school. 

bayareabadger

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Re: Frosty Man v. Frosty Malt (Aug. 28 SOC)
« Reply #142 on: August 30, 2021, 07:29:51 AM »
Yeah, let's hang onto the most incompetent employees we have.  Good plan.
Do you think they have an important person whose job is "screen the HS games to make sure the booking service got it right"?

Now, they should certianly discontinue working with that organization, but that's probably about it. 

MaximumSam

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Frosty Man v. Frosty Malt (Aug. 28 SOC)
« Reply #144 on: August 30, 2021, 09:36:02 AM »
Someone has to recruit with them.  This just came out a couple of days ago,  Mich and Penn St. are not very close to OSU.
https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/
If you are Penn State or Michigan I think this is a chicken and egg problem:
  • Doing better on the field will help you do better at getting high-end recruits off the field but
  • Doing better at getting high-end recruits off the field will help you do better on the field.  

The thing is that this can snowball VERY quickly.  If Penn State or Michigan overperforms on the field for a year or two that is likely to dramatically improve their recruiting off the field and then they'll have a more comparable level of talent and viola, within a few VERY short years they are equal to or better than Ohio State.  

These things can and do change and they can change very quickly.  


ELA

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Re: Frosty Man v. Frosty Malt (Aug. 28 SOC)
« Reply #145 on: August 30, 2021, 09:50:13 AM »
Clemson has obvious geographical advantages, but their flip happened insanely quickly

Cincydawg

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Re: Frosty Man v. Frosty Malt (Aug. 28 SOC)
« Reply #146 on: August 30, 2021, 09:54:40 AM »
Clemson has obvious geographical advantages, but their flip happened insanely quickly
I think Dabo is a good coach, not Urban good, but at least suburban good.  They over achieved for a few years and then recruiting kicked in.

I'm kind of amazed that there really are "superb coaches", a scant few, who make a difference.  I would have guessed most college HCs are "good", but not great, and the great ones maybe win one extra game a year they wouldn't have otherwise.  The gap seems to be wider than that.

Spurrier was a great gameday coach and schemer, but he didn't focus on recruiting as much.  At Florida that was sufficient, but not at USCe.

It's also interesting how a guy can be great at say Boise and move to a P5 and suddenly not be all that.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Frosty Man v. Frosty Malt (Aug. 28 SOC)
« Reply #147 on: August 30, 2021, 10:40:43 AM »
I'm kind of amazed that there really are "superb coaches", a scant few, who make a difference.  I would have guessed most college HCs are "good", but not great, and the great ones maybe win one extra game a year they wouldn't have otherwise.  The gap seems to be wider than that.
Particularly if you are talking regular season only, it may only be a one game difference.  That doesn't sound like much, but realistically it is HUGE.  Look at Michigan, for an example (ignoring 2020 because it was a goofy year):

In 2019 they went 9-3 with losses to Wisconsin, Penn State, and Ohio State.  Heading into the tOSU game they were #10 at 9-2.  With the loss they dropped to #17 at 9-3.  Wisconsin and Penn State (both 10-2) were #10 and #12.  Had they won any of the three games that they lost, that would have been a better win than anything that either UW or PSU had and put them easily in the top-10.  

In 2018 they went 10-2 with losses to Notre Dame and Ohio State.  Heading into the tOSU game they were #4 at 10-1.  With the loss they dropped to #8 at 10-2.  Notre Dame was #3 at 12-0 and Ohio State was #6 at 11-1.  Had they won either of those games they'd have been a likely CFP participant:
  • With a win over ND they'd have knocked ND out and finished 11-1 with their only loss being to tOSU.  
  • With a win over tOSU they'd have gone to the B1GCG at 11-1.  

In 2017 they went 8-4 with losses to MSU, PSU, UW, and tOSU.  Heading into the tOSU game they were just barely unranked at 8-3.  With a win in any one of those games they'd have finished a respectable 9-3 with all three losses being to teams that finished ranked:
  • tOSU was #5 heading into bowls
  • Wisconsin was #6 heading into bowls
  • Penn State was #9 heading into bowls
  • Michigan State was #18 heading into bowls.  


In 2016 they went 10-2 with losses to Iowa and Ohio State.  Heading into the tOSU game they were #3 at 10-1.  With the loss they dropped to #5 at 10-2.  A win over either Iowa or tOSU would have put them in the B1GCG and gotten them a CFP berth with a win there.  

In 2015 they went 9-3 with losses to Utah, MSU, and tOSU.  Heading into the tOSU game they were #12 at 9-2.  With the loss they dropped to #19 at 9-3.  A win in any of those three games likely puts them in the top-10 heading into bowls.  

Winning one extra game per year over the five years from 2015-2019 would likely have given Michigan a couple of B1GCG appearances and probably a CFP appearance as well.  One game per year may not sound like much but it makes a big difference.  


Cincydawg

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Re: Frosty Man v. Frosty Malt (Aug. 28 SOC)
« Reply #148 on: August 30, 2021, 10:53:37 AM »
Yes, for an upper level team, winning one more game a year can be huge, reg season.

There is almost a sea change between say 11-1 and 10-2 etc.. a "quantum leap" as it were.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Frosty Man v. Frosty Malt (Aug. 28 SOC)
« Reply #149 on: August 30, 2021, 11:22:55 AM »
Yes, for an upper level team, winning one more game a year can be huge, reg season.

There is almost a sea change between say 11-1 and 10-2 etc.. a "quantum leap" as it were.
Looking at your team and mine:
Georgia is preseason #5.  Their scheduled games this year against ranked teams are:
  • vs #3 Clemson in Charlotte
  • vs #13 Florida in Jacksonville

Ohio State is preseason #4.  Their scheduled games this year against ranked teams are:
  • vs #11 Oregon at home
  • at #17 Indiana
  • vs #19 Penn State at home

Upsets can and do happen but realistically if these two teams are as good as their rankings they only have 2-3 regular season games that should even be challenging.  So basically it is a 2-3 game schedule with a bunch of fluff (again, assuming that they are as good as their rankings).  The WLOCP and tOSU's games against IU and PSU are likely to deicide whether or not the Dawgs and Buckeyes end up in their respective CG's while the OOC games against the highest ranked team in the ACC and the highest ranked team in the PAC will go a long way toward determining which conference's 1-loss team gets the last CFP spot.  12-0 vs 11-1 vs 10-2 are HUGE differences.  


medinabuckeye1

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Re: Frosty Man v. Frosty Malt (Aug. 28 SOC)
« Reply #150 on: August 30, 2021, 11:35:26 AM »
It's also interesting how a guy can be great at say Boise and move to a P5 and suddenly not be all that.
I came to the conclusion a long time ago that the skill set necessary to be a great "Helmet" Coach and the skill set necessary to be a great G5 or minor-P5 Coach are similar and somewhat overlapping but they are NOT the same.  

Nick Saban's challenges simply are NOT the same now as they were when he was at Toledo or when he was at MSU.  Thus, some guys are GREAT at Toledo/MSU but once they climb the ladder to an Alabama type job they just aren't cut out for it and they don't do well.  

Cincydawg

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Re: Frosty Man v. Frosty Malt (Aug. 28 SOC)
« Reply #151 on: August 30, 2021, 01:09:25 PM »
@Auburn would be UGA's third toughest game (on paper).  They get UK and Mizzou at home, to the extent either has a good year.

Urban did exceptionally well at different schools, Saban really didn't until he hit elite P5 programs.  And yes, it seems a great G5 coach often becomes a so-so P5 coach.

 

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