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Topic: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost

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Mdot21

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #406 on: November 21, 2020, 09:52:33 PM »
Yes, I watched Frost at UCF. They were a spread running team ala RichRod. That shit doesn't work. It's all about the PASSING GAME today. Frost wouldn't know shit about passing the football- he was a running QB who sucked ass at throwing the ball. He's a diehard believer in the run. Just like Jimmy H. 

Gotta throw it all over the lot to win. Even Saban said so just last week. Nick said great defense doesn't win anymore. And he's right. He changed with the times and that's why his program never fell off.

Entropy

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #407 on: November 21, 2020, 09:58:22 PM »
Frost as HC Team Run/Pass Percentages (win%):
2016 UCF:  54/46 (.462)
2017 UCF:  54/46 (1.000)
2018 UNL:  54/46 (.333)
2019 UNL:  63/37 (.416)

Two things:
1 - it's best not to look at "even" as being 50/50....nearly all teams run more than they pass, due to play-call outcomes based on late-game score.  You pass a lot if you're behind with a chance to catch up, but you run a lot if you're ahead by a little or a lot, and if you're behind by a lot.  Based on EXTENSIVE research on this, I set "even" at about 58/42.  That's not scientific, just based on 1000+ team season ratios...it could easily be 56/44 or 60/40.  But it's certainly not 50/50.

2 - a team's record does affect play-calling, as the more a team loses, the further from their ideal goal of run/pass ratio they tend to stray (towards pass).  This makes the above pretty remarkable, that Frost's ratio remained the same through a losing season at UCF, an undefeated season at UCF, and a losing season at a new spot, Nebraska.

BUT, if you give any credence to my findings in #1 above, he's right in suggesting Frost has moved from being on the edge of balanced and pass-heavy (54/46) to the edge of balanced and run-heavy (63/37).  But to suggest he's been anywhere near run-heavy before 2019 would be incorrect. 
In 2018 he had sr WR's... 2019 really lacked non-slot WR's.   
thanks for doing the research.  Frost runs more of an oregon offense (or wants to run it).   He's a big believer in balance, though I'd say his big plays/chunk plays come out of the passing game (or did). 

Entropy

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #408 on: November 21, 2020, 10:03:22 PM »
Yes, I watched Frost at UCF. They were a spread running team ala RichRod. That shit doesn't work. It's all about the PASSING GAME today. Frost wouldn't know shit about passing the football- he was a running QB who sucked ass at throwing the ball. He's a diehard believer in the run. Just like Jimmy H.

Outside of Frost not being a great passer, I'm not sure I agree with your perspective.  You must not have watch Milton throwing the ball... Nor did you watch Oregon when Frost was calling plays. They're dynamic offenses that stress the field sideline to sideline and vertically.    That's what you want. 

RichRod's offense worked btw... and still would today.  He believed in creating space and getting guys in space... Frost's offense at UCF incorporated some power (which is why I really like OSU's version of the spread) and he liked getting WR's vertical.  He leverage RPO's to stress defenses and used WR runs to go sideline to sideline.   He's been pretty balanced... until recently.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 10:15:16 PM by Entropy »

Entropy

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #409 on: November 21, 2020, 10:14:01 PM »
Now.. if you are watching this year or last and saying that... I agree.   UNL has not seen Frost's offense.  We've seen a very conservative approach... which is not what he said he was bringing.   

FearlessF

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #410 on: November 21, 2020, 10:16:18 PM »
the RPOs vanished

thought we would get the old Oregon offense back with the addition of the O-coordinator
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Entropy

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #411 on: November 21, 2020, 10:22:23 PM »
Fearless.. Martinez is a decent runner who likes to pass the ball between the hashes.   He focuses on TE's and does a pretty good job in the screen game.  He can pass the ball long but seems to check down a lot.   He also stands tall in the pocket.   Luke is a very good runner who can create positive yards out of nothing.  He prefers passing outside the hashes and struggles with short passes or screens.   Not the arm either.   He dances in the pocket and has been late on reads...  He's seems to lead the team a little better. 

from my perspective we do not have a complete QB... And it will be tough to design a game plan with guys who are that different.   I'm not sure UNL has the WR's to make things easier either.   Hence, why they are run heavy and using the QB run so much.   Frost hasn't flipped the roster and bluntly, I don't see guys getting better to make things easier on the QB's either.   OL still struggles in pass pro... WR's still don't get open and don't win 1x1 battles.   QB's look worse than they are as a result.  

FearlessF

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #412 on: November 21, 2020, 10:30:34 PM »
Oregon and UCF ran the QB a bunch

off those runs they had quick pop pass options to TEs and WRs if the defense was over playing the run

seem to be the type of easy reads and easy passes either QB could make

Big Ten defenses find the key?
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FearlessF

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #413 on: November 21, 2020, 10:38:37 PM »




These all from the Gopher game in 2018 - Don't seem them anymore

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Entropy

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #414 on: November 21, 2020, 10:43:01 PM »
UNL had Sr. WR's in 2018.   Last year, UNL had one slot WR.  This year....   WaDale is a duck.. the WR/RB hybrid.   I really think Luke is one too.  If you were a DC would you respect UNL's wr's?

FearlessF

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #415 on: November 21, 2020, 10:47:55 PM »
WR seems to be a position that a young guy can learn quickly and contribute early

gotta be able to coach up a couple decent options in year 3

shoot!
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Entropy

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #416 on: November 21, 2020, 10:59:20 PM »
WR seems to be a position that a young guy can learn quickly and contribute early

gotta be able to coach up a couple decent options in year 3

shoot!
This past week, the staff was talking about how tough it is to learn the position...   Maybe it's too complex.

FearlessF

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #417 on: November 21, 2020, 11:13:53 PM »
Betts, Falck, and Martin getting catches today.  Brown playing last week.

not much time in the system

where's Warner and Hickman?  Too slow?
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #418 on: November 21, 2020, 11:53:14 PM »
Passing isn't as easy without those FL skill position kids running all over the place...
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #419 on: November 21, 2020, 11:54:43 PM »
Passing isn't as easy without those FL skill position kids running all over the place...
this isn't exactly true. 

The QB is far more important than FL skill players. So is the scheme/play-caller. 

 

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