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Topic: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost

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Mdot21

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #336 on: November 18, 2020, 01:41:19 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on November 18, 2020, 11:41:04 AM
Michigan's all man coverage all the time defense is actually pretty good when you have elite corners.  Back in 2018 Michigan's Defense looked really good that way up until tOSU and even that was more an issue of depth than anything else.  Ohio State simply had too many good options to throw the ball to and Michigan only had so many good options to cover them with.  Ohio State lit up Michigan because Michigan's LB's and third and fourth DB's weren't good enough to play man coverage against Ohio State's third, fourth, and fifth receiving options.  If they pull in two elite corners and an elite QB then this is probably not a good time for a coaching change. 
You also need nickel corners and safeties with elite athleticism- which is something they don't have right now outside of Dax Hill. 

Dax Hill is literally the only guy in that secondary who can play. 

Harbaugh could survive this. He needs to replace a lot of coaches on his staff- try to get Chris Partridge back and then just completely 100% stay the F away from all the QB's and the entire offensive staff. They need to cut his mic when the OC is calling plays. 

He can be succesful if he will just allow himself to become a figure head and stay the F out.
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847badgerfan

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #337 on: November 18, 2020, 01:52:33 PM »
Why did Partridge leave? Because he got a DC job as co-DC?

Michigan could have given him that.
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FearlessF

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #338 on: November 18, 2020, 02:14:07 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on November 18, 2020, 01:41:19 PM
You also need nickel corners and safeties with elite athleticism- which is something they don't have right now outside of Dax Hill.
shoot fire, if you have two NFL quality lock down corners, the other 2 or 3 guys in the back end have it EASY
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Mdot21

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #339 on: November 18, 2020, 02:53:45 PM »
Quote from: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 02:14:07 PM
shoot fire, if you have two NFL quality lock down corners, the other 2 or 3 guys in the back end have it EASY
Michigan had pretty good DB's from 2015-2019.

The only guy I'm seeing right now that could get on the field for them in previous years for significant minutes is Dax Hill. Their CB's are atrocious and the other safety- Brad Hawkins has somehow regressed terribly. Wonder if he's hurt.
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Mdot21

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #340 on: November 18, 2020, 02:56:06 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2020, 01:52:33 PM
Why did Partridge leave? Because he got a DC job as co-DC?

Michigan could have given him that.
Same reason Mattison left. Better title, more money.

Honestly, Jim needs them both back. Partridge was their ace recruiter and Mattison developed their DL's. Those Michigan DL's under Mattison were always rock solid. The DL's since he's left- especially the interior- have been a disaster.

Don Brown looked like a genius (minus a couple OSU trashings) when he had NFL talent Partridge was recruiting for him and when he had the DL's that could rush the passer and stop the run with 4 that Mattison built for him. Now Don Brown is getting exposed.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #341 on: November 18, 2020, 03:13:42 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on November 18, 2020, 01:41:19 PM
You also need nickel corners and safeties with elite athleticism- which is something they don't have right now outside of Dax Hill.
That depends on who you are playing. As @FearlessF said above, if the top two are lock down guys then the rest have it easy.

In 2018 Michigan had a substantial drop-off between DB #2 and DB #3 but against most opponents that didn't matter much because not many opponents have high end #3 receiving options. Ohio State did, obviously, and Florida too but that isn't the same thing as losing to a bad MSU team and getting rocked by Indiana. 
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Mdot21

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #342 on: November 18, 2020, 05:05:08 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on November 18, 2020, 03:13:42 PM
That depends on who you are playing. As @FearlessF said above, if the top two are lock down guys then the rest have it easy.

In 2018 Michigan had a substantial drop-off between DB #2 and DB #3 but against most opponents that didn't matter much because not many opponents have high end #3 receiving options. Ohio State did, obviously, and Florida too but that isn't the same thing as losing to a bad MSU team and getting rocked by Indiana.

This is true. But it's also a knock on Don Brown. When he had more talent at his disposal than the offense he was playing, he got away with calling the same man to man across the board, aggressive blitzing defense scheme basically every snap. They literally played like zero zone coverage and blitzed almost every down. That's a devastating defense when you have more talent than everybody you face. When you don't- well you have to scheme it up. OSU exposed his scheme in 2018 and 2019 badly- because they identified and picked up his blitzing tendencies and like you said OSU had 4-5 stud WR's to slice and dice his man coverage. Plus they had top 10 NFL draft pick QB's in back to back years in Haskins and then Fields. 

Brown sucks imo. His scheme only works with elite talent. Have to be able to scheme things and help guys that don't have the elite talent. I don't think Don Brown survives. 

Michigan is in good position right now for 5* CB's Domani Jackson & Will Johnson in 2022. They are also in good position for 4* CB Jaelen Gould in 2022. Michigan made a huge move upwards for top100 2021 CB 4* Ceyair Wright (6'1, 175) the #75 player overall in the nation, #6 CB, and #7 player in CA. Wright goes to the same HS as former Michigan CB David Long- and the two families are close. Michigan also has a strong contingent of current players/commits from CA that he's friendly with as well. He just visited and despite Michigan getting whooped by Wisconsin he probably came away thinking he could start day one in 2021. He's probably right. They get those 5 players their secondary woes will improve a lot in the future.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #343 on: November 18, 2020, 06:51:09 PM »
DTs.  As Urban said, that UM 2016 defense was the best he ever faced due to Mo Hurst and Co.
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Mdot21

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #344 on: November 18, 2020, 07:53:57 PM »
Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 18, 2020, 06:51:09 PM
DTs.  As Urban said, that UM 2016 defense was the best he ever faced due to Mo Hurst and Co.
It's a shame that Speight got hurt vs Iowa and they didn't have a legit back-up to him. It's a shame Speight was was even their starter in the first place actually. I really think had they been able to keep Rudock in 2016, they probably beat Iowa and Ohio State and go 12-0 in the regular season. I mean they lost to Iowa by 1 point on a last second FG after Speight got broken in half during that game. They were in command of that OSU game until Speight basically gave OSU 14 points and took 7 away from Michigan. Don't want to make it sound like I'm taking away credit from OSU. Speight was ass in that game though. Michigan is probably up 24-0 late in the 3rd QTR if not for Wilt the Stilt coughing up a snap with 1 yard to score a TD, throwing a pick 6 the series before buttfingers muffed said goal-line snap, and then throwing another INT that got returned all the way to the goal-line after a penalty was called on Michigan on the OSU INT return. That's a 21 point swing. Jake Rudock doesn't make those mistakes imo.

That 2016 defense may have been the best I've ever seen at Michigan. They just put the clamps down on everyone. My only nit-pick is they should've started Devin Bush at MIKE and moved Gedeon to WILL and had McCray come off the bench to back-up both spots.

Two Deep DL was:

DE: Taco Charlton (1st rd pick), Chase Winovich (2nd rd pick)
DE: Chris Wormley (3rd rd pick), Rashan Gary (1st rd pick)
NT: Bryan Mone (UFA), Matt Godin (he was OK as a back-up, the weakest link)
DT: Ryan Glasgow (4th rd pick), Mo Hurst (5th rd pick- still ridiculous to me- he was a 1st rd talent)

Their DE talent was insane and their DT's were so underrated. Glasgow and Hurst were so fricken good and Mone was an immovable 340 pound force in the middle. Their top 6 guys on the DL were insane, Mone was really good too, and Godin kinda stunk but he was no worse than Carlo Kemp. Carlo Kemp is THE #1 guy for this years Michigan teams DT's. Godin was 4th best DT by far on that 2016 team. Kemp might've never gotten on the field for that 2016 team. Kind of goes to show you how far they've fallen. And it's pretty damning that this new staff has struggled to develop Chris Hinton and Mazi Smith. I know they are still young and DT's take time to develop, but Hinton was a 5* DT and Mazi Smith was a top 100 player in the nation. They need those guys to grow up in a hurry.

Who built and developed that DL in 2016? Greg Mattison. Boy are they are missing him badly right now.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #345 on: November 18, 2020, 08:24:53 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on November 18, 2020, 07:53:57 PM
It's a shame that Speight got hurt vs Iowa and they didn't have a legit back-up to him. It's a shame Speight was was even their starter in the first place actually. I really think had they been able to keep Rudock in 2016, they probably beat Iowa and Ohio State and go 12-0 in the regular season. I mean they lost to Iowa by 1 point on a last second FG after Speight got broken in half during that game. They were in command of that OSU game until Speight basically gave OSU 14 points and took 7 away from Michigan. Don't want to make it sound like I'm taking away credit from OSU. Speight was ass in that game though. Michigan is probably up 24-0 late in the 3rd QTR if not for Wilt the Stilt coughing up a snap with 1 yard to score a TD, throwing a pick 6 the series before buttfingers muffed said goal-line snap, and then throwing another INT that got returned all the way to the goal-line after a penalty was called on Michigan on the OSU INT return. That's a 21 point swing. Jake Rudock doesn't make those mistakes imo.

That 2016 defense may have been the best I've ever seen at Michigan. They just put the clamps down on everyone. My only nit-pick is they should've started Devin Bush at MIKE and moved Gedeon to WILL and had McCray come off the bench to back-up both spots.

Two Deep DL was:

DE: Taco Charlton (1st rd pick), Chase Winovich (2nd rd pick)
DE: Chris Wormley (3rd rd pick), Rashan Gary (1st rd pick)
NT: Bryan Mone (UFA), Matt Godin (he was OK as a back-up, the weakest link)
DT: Ryan Glasgow (4th rd pick), Mo Hurst (5th rd pick- still ridiculous to me- he was a 1st rd talent)

Their DE talent was insane and their DT's were so underrated. Glasgow and Hurst were so fricken good and Mone was an immovable 340 pound force in the middle. Their top 6 guys on the DL were insane, Mone was really good too, and Godin kinda stunk but he was no worse than Carlo Kemp. Carlo Kemp is THE #1 guy for this years Michigan teams DT's. Godin was 4th best DT by far on that 2016 team. Kemp might've never gotten on the field for that 2016 team. Kind of goes to show you how far they've fallen. And it's pretty damning that this new staff has struggled to develop Chris Hinton and Mazi Smith. I know they are still young and DT's take time to develop, but Hinton was a 5* DT and Mazi Smith was a top 100 player in the nation. They need those guys to grow up in a hurry.

Who built and developed that DL in 2016? Greg Mattison. Boy are they are missing him badly right now.
Can’t disagree.  That was a NASTY defense. They were the better team. Buckeyes scratched and clawed and stole that one
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Mdot21

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #346 on: November 18, 2020, 08:39:23 PM »
Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 18, 2020, 08:24:53 PM
Can’t disagree.  That was a NASTY defense. They were the better team. Buckeyes scratched and clawed and stole that one
If they would've had Jake Rudock back, Michigan would've been so much better. The offense and most importantly QB really has been the achilles heel of Harbaugh's entire tenure at Michigan. 
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847badgerfan

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #347 on: November 19, 2020, 07:57:15 AM »
1997 was a nasty defense. One of the best I've ever seen.
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FearlessF

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #348 on: November 19, 2020, 10:25:13 AM »
Frost's Huskers would have run over it  :)
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Mdot21

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #349 on: November 19, 2020, 01:26:14 PM »
Quote from: FearlessF on November 19, 2020, 10:25:13 AM
Frost's Huskers would have run over it  :)
Frost wasn’t the player Tommie Frazier was. Not even close. I’ll take my chances. 

I think it would’ve been a real low scoring game and Michigan would’ve won maybe 10-7. Woodson was the ultimate x-factor in every game- he would’ve just made the big play to win the game- like he did all year that year. Michigan had the best defense in the country that year, by far, it wasn’t close, and they were led by the best defensive player in the country and arguably the greatest cornerback to ever play college football.

Frost wouldn’t have been able to complete a single pass on that defense. He was a shitty passer as is- and then going against a secondary like Michigan’s in ‘97 that had a pair of stud safeties in Tommy Hendricks and Marcus Ray- and then maybe the best cornerback to ever play college football in Charles Woodson- forget about it.

Woodson would’ve taken away half the field and Michigan could’ve just loaded the box. Michigan had the #1 defense in the country that year by basically every metric. They gave up only 206 yards per game on defense - #1 in the country, they allowed only 8.9 points per game- #1 in the country, they allowed only 3.3 yards per play- #1 in the country-, they gave up only 2.7 yards per rush- #5 in the country and gave up only 6 rushing touchdowns all season- #2 in the country, they had the #1 pass efficiency defense and they gave up only 4 pass TD all season- #1 in the country. 

My two cents. 
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