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Topic: Does defense still win Championships?

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MikeDeTiger

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Re: Does defense still win Championships?
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2023, 01:00:36 PM »
I get OAM's point.  If TCU and Georgia hadn't played well enough to defeat all of their opponents in September and October, they very well might not be playing for the championship in January. 

But comparing a team's defense over all games in a season, is even more difficult than comparing them for single games late in the season, and we're already struggling just with that data alone.

I get his point too, I was just being a dick.  But I said also has a point--winning a championship and getting to a championship are two different things, if we want to pick nits.  

He and a couple others keep referencing 2019 LSU, and my main point is that either way, they needed a stout defense.  No secret the defense had problems for several games, but even prior to rounding into championship form down the stretch, the D was crucial.  Notably, LSU was in a back-and-forth with Florida, and may well not win if not for a key stop or two at the end (which made the score appear further apart than the actual game).  Then there was Auburn, who held LSU's offense in check all day, but the defense would not let AU get much going either.  They win by 3 because of the defense that day, more than the offense, imo.  Then there's Alabama, where I've already noted I think the second half of that game was total BS, but it was what it was.  And LSU clamping down on Bama for a half was absolutely vital to winning that game that wound up a 5 point margin.  

Then, obviously the playoffs.  Already mentioned the Clemson game, and prior to that the defense did a great job against OU, even though it's probably valid to argue LSU's offense wins that game even if the defense hadn't shown up.  But OU kind of proves the point....they were explosive as was LSU, I think those were the 1 and 2 offenses that year.  Why does LSU win comfortably?  Because LSU had a defense, OU did not.  

I think you still need a good-to-great defense to both be in position to win a NC, and then to actually win it.  Is there a team we can point to that did it with a mediocre or poor defense?  I can't think of one, off the top of my head.  


bayareabadger

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Re: Does defense still win Championships?
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2023, 02:22:57 PM »
offense or defense?
That’s defense 

rolltidefan

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Re: Does defense still win Championships?
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2023, 02:33:37 PM »
haven't gone through whole thread, so forgive me if this has been said. but, imo, yes. defenses might be giving up more scores, but it's relative to their peers. and relative to their peers, you still need to be one of the best defenses.

went a little different route, and looked at conference champs for since 2011. compared their conf and national rank for scoring d. here is data:


few notes...
 - interestingly, the b1g is the least responsive to this. not much, just 1 ranking spot on average, but they have the highest rank among their peers (conf mates).
 - every conf had at least 1 anomaly. yes, i realize i spelled it wrong in excel.
 - on average, basically need to be one of the top 3 d in conf to win it. top 4 for b1g.

rolltidefan

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Re: Does defense still win Championships?
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2023, 02:42:17 PM »
also, should note that looking at average national rank, and then thinking who competes and wins titles recently, there is pretty strong correlation.

Cincydawg

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Re: Does defense still win Championships?
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2023, 02:47:31 PM »
Teams with good Os and Ds should frequent the CFP.  I can't think of a team with a superb either and lousy other than made the CFP.


utee94

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Re: Does defense still win Championships?
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2023, 02:55:22 PM »
Teams with good Os and Ds should frequent the CFP.  I can't think of a team with a superb either and lousy other than made the CFP.


2018 OU had the #1 offense and a pretty bad defense I believe.

Cincydawg

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Re: Does defense still win Championships?
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2023, 02:57:16 PM »
2018 OU had the #1 offense and a pretty bad defense I believe.
Oh, I agree with that, they of course were eliminated, but they had a lot of O and not much D.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Does defense still win Championships?
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2023, 03:08:41 PM »


All I know is that your chart confirms "twelving" as a valid term.  :57:
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

utee94

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Re: Does defense still win Championships?
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2023, 03:17:38 PM »

All I know is that your chart confirms "twelving" as a valid term.  :57:

This year's CFP confirms it is now just "college footballing" that is the valid term.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2023, 03:30:35 PM by utee94 »

FearlessF

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Re: Does defense still win Championships?
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2023, 03:22:53 PM »
took the other conferences a few seasons to catch up to the trend

SLOWWW
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utee94

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Re: Does defense still win Championships?
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2023, 03:23:37 PM »
took the other conferences a few seasons to catch up to the trend

SLOWWW
Exactly.  The WAC started it, the PAC continued it, the B12 perfected it... and now comes along the SEC and the plodding, slow B1G, bringing up the rear.

Cincydawg

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Re: Does defense still win Championships?
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2023, 03:52:19 PM »
UGA gave up a thousand yards in the past two games.  That's something like 500 per.

They did better against SEC East teams, and Oregon.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Does defense still win Championships?
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2023, 04:22:50 PM »
I don't think a 1-game sample from each season is meaningful at all.  Why limit yourself to that?  Take the average points allowed per game for their seasons....it multiplies the validity by 10+, right off the bat.
I limited it because my focus is on teams that win the NC or at least get close. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Does defense still win Championships?
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2023, 04:34:18 PM »
Then we should have a thread entitled "Random chance wins championships" and it'll have 897,000 posts of examples.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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