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Topic: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll

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ELA

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2018, 10:28:16 AM »
Quote from: Anonymous Coward on July 23, 2018, 10:16:16 AM
Wasn't that 1998?
Yes, so since 1999.  1998 is excluded, I don't think MSU was the better team that year.  That's why I said the year after the MSU upset
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2018, 11:56:16 AM »
Quote from: ELA on July 23, 2018, 09:15:39 AM
I think you could make the case that since 1999 (the year after MSU upset #1 OSU in Columbus) the better team has won, and location simply is irrelevant in the series.  I think probably only the 2015 MSU win on the Geiger FG cuts against that.  The winner every other time, was simply pretty clearly the better team.
I wouldn't go quite as far as "pretty clearly" but overall I think I agree.  
  • 2017:  tOSU won.  tOSU finished 12-2, MSU finished 10-3.  It is only a 1.5 game difference but Ohio State's extra game was a win over a very good Wisconsin team in the B1GCG.  Ohio State was pretty clearly better. 
  • 2016:  tOSU won.  tOSU finished 11-2, MSU finished 3-9.  Ohio State was pretty clearly better.  Actually, the main surprise about this game is that it was only 17-16.  Typically you would expect a random 11-2 team to beat a random 3-9 team by a lot more than one point.  
  • 2015:  MSU won.  MSU finished 12-2, tOSU finished 12-1.  MSU's extra game was a win over a previously undefeated Iowa but as it turned out Iowa subsequently got smoked by Stanford so their 12-0 start was largely a product of schedule.  I do not believe that MSU was better, let alone "pretty clearly" better largely because MSU's two losses were to a sub .500 Nebraska team and a shutout loss in the CFP.  You already acknowledged this one.  
  • 2014:  tOSU won.  tOSU finished 14-1 and National Champions, MSU finished 11-2.  Ohio State's two extra wins were a B1GCG and a CFP semi-final.  Based on that, Ohio State was clearly better.  
  • 2013:  MSU won 34-24 in the B1GCG.  MSU finished 13-1, tOSU finished 12-2.  I could make an argument either way as to which team was better so I don't think this falls into "pretty clearly" territory.  
  • 2012:  tOSU won.  tOSU finished 12-0, MSU finished 7-6.  Ohio State was clearly better.  
  • 2011:  MSU won.  MSU finished 11-3, tOSU finished 6-7.  Michigan State was clearly better.  
  • 2010:  n/a, they didn't play.  
  • 2009:  n/a, they didn't play.  
  • 2008:  tOSU won.  tOSU finished 10-3, MSU finished 9-4.  It is only a one game difference but Ohio State's three losses were to teams that finished 12-1, 12-1, and 11-2.  Granted, MSU's four losses were all to good teams, just not quite that good.  Ohio State was clearly better.  
  • 2007:  tOSU won.  tOSU finished 11-2, MSU finished 7-6.  Ohio State was clearly better.  
  • 2006:  tOSU won.  tOSU finished 12-1, MSU finished 4-8.  Ohio State was clearly better.  
  • 2005:  tOSU won.  tOSU finished 10-2, MSU finished 5-6.  Ohio State was clearly better.  
  • 2004:  tOSU won.  tOSU finished 8-4, MSU finished 5-7.  Ohio State was clearly better.  
  • 2003:  tOSU won.  tOSU finished 11-2, MSU finished 8-5.  Ohio State was clearly better.  
  • 2002:  n/a, they didn't play.  
  • 2001:  n/a, they didn't play.  
  • 2000:  tOSU won.  tOSU finished 8-4, MSU finished 5-6.  Ohio State was clearly better.  
  • 1999:  MSU won.  MSU finished 10-2, tOSU finished 6-6.  MSU was clearly better.  

Ok, having reviewed all of them back to 1999 (inclusive), other than 2015 and 2013 I agree that the winner has been clearly the better team.  Even with those two, an argument can be made that the better team won.  

From 1999-2017 the Buckeyes are 11-4 against the Spartans.  One thing that has hurt MSU is that their ups-and-downs have largely tracked Ohio State's and just been slightly lower.  Examples:
  • 2000:  Ohio State had a pretty pedestrian 8-4 record but MSU was only 5-6.  
  • 2004:  Ohio State had a pretty pedestrian 8-4 record but MSU was only 5-7.  
  • 2014:  Michigan State had a great team that finished 11-2 but tOSU was even better and finished 14-1.  

Those 2000 and 2004 tOSU teams would have been beaten by at least half of the teams that MSU has fielded over the past 19 years but not by the teams that they fielded in those years.  Similarly, the 2014 MSU team would probably have beaten half of the tOSU teams over the past 19 years but not the 2014 team.  
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ELA

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2018, 12:26:03 PM »
2013 MSU went 9-0 in the Big Ten, beating every team, OSU included, by double digits.  Nobody else in Big Ten history has ever done that.  I feel pretty good saying they were clearly the better team.  I stand by 2015 being the lone exception.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2018, 02:36:21 PM »
Quote from: ELA on July 23, 2018, 12:26:03 PM
2013 MSU went 9-0 in the Big Ten, beating every team, OSU included, by double digits.  Nobody else in Big Ten history has ever done that.  I feel pretty good saying they were clearly the better team.  I stand by 2015 being the lone exception.
I don't think it is that clear but agree to disagree.  I'm more interested in your opinion and other opinions on the relative schedules of the pre-season top-4 in the B1G-E.  My post on that got sidetracked into this.  
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Entropy

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2018, 03:50:23 PM »
Frost on Wisconsin: "They've been out-Nebraska-ing Nebraska and we're going to fix that."
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847badgerfan

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2018, 04:04:36 PM »
Best of luck, kinda.
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FearlessF

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2018, 05:17:08 PM »
well, it will take some luck, but more hard work and dedication

if Nebraska can't do it, not many can.
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ELA

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2018, 02:03:20 PM »
Quote from: Entropy on July 23, 2018, 03:50:23 PM
Frost on Wisconsin: "They've been out-Nebraska-ing Nebraska and we're going to fix that."
~:P

https://twitter.com/BarstoolBigCat/status/1021810780168183809
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FearlessF

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2018, 02:05:41 PM »
that's the problem, the Huskers haven't been roiding

that's easy to fix
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ELA

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2018, 02:12:43 PM »
Quote from: FearlessF on July 24, 2018, 02:05:41 PM
that's the problem, the Huskers haven't been roiding

that's easy to fix
Sure they have.
They all have.
That's the problem.
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FearlessF

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2018, 02:16:22 PM »
Bringing Ellis back to do it better than anyone..............

Dave Ellis, a longtime employee in the strength and conditioning department and more recently a sports-related consultant, was named the Nebraska athletic department's director of performance nutrition on Friday.

Ellis worked for Nebraska throughout the 1980s before spending about four years at the University of Wisconsin. He returned to Nebraska in 1994 and  started the school's original nutrition department before entering private practice in 2001. 
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FearlessF

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2018, 02:17:16 PM »
CHICAGO — While he may eventually make his team’s job a little harder, Wisconsin Athletic Director Barry Alvarez is a big fan of Scott Frost.

“He’ll bring trust,” Alvarez said. “People in Nebraska know him, they trust him. He understands Nebraska, he understands what they’re all about. He’s been there, he grew up with it, he did it at the highest level. The fans are sitting there looking, thinking 'He’s one of ours.'"

Alvarez, a former Husker linebacker, played with Scott Frost’s dad, Larry.

“Dad was a good player,” Alvarez said. “He could really run.”

Frost was blunt Monday in his praise for Alvarez and the Badgers, which have taken NU’s old blueprint of physical football and used it as their own. Frost said Wisconsin was “out-Nebraska-ing Nebraska."

While Wisconsin opted for a pro-style offense instead of an option attack — with former Nebraska head coach Bill Callahan running the offensive line for his first five years — Alvarez said physicality was a focus.

“I was trained in Nebraska,” Alvarez said. “I idolized Bob Devaney, and a lot of principles and things I believe in football I learned there ... The walk-on program, I said this as soon as I went (to Wisconsin), we emphasized it, much like Coach Devaney and Coach (Tom) Osborne.”
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847badgerfan

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2018, 03:16:55 PM »
Pretty high praise right there.
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FearlessF

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #41 on: July 24, 2018, 03:22:40 PM »
I truly believe the respect is mutual and of a very high level 
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