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Topic: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation

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Anonymous Coward

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2019, 11:40:33 PM »
I don't think California is going to have to stand by itself or strongarm anyone.  I think there are plenty of states/universities that will likely enact similar law.
There already are -- with varying likelihoods of success -- similar bills at earlier stages in several state legistures. I know that Washington, Maryland, and North Carolina are examples.

Whether those succeed, I can't say, but between the O'Bannon fallout and this, the movement has legs. It's accelerating to the point where some form of win is now inevitable (name and likeness rights, market value, and/or larger revenue sport stipends, etc.). 

Anonymous Coward

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2019, 11:42:57 PM »
Right to work, and uncapped compensation in a free market, aren't exactly liberal concepts. :)
It does make me giggle how many fans in opposition to this are pro-free market and anti-regulation when it comes to everything except college athletes.

CWSooner

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2019, 11:50:24 PM »
It does make me giggle how many fans in opposition to this are pro-free market and anti-regulation when it comes to everything except college athletes.
I wonder if that works both ways--if there's an equally amusing number of people who support this but are anti-free market and pro-regulation in everything else.
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2019, 11:55:22 PM »
I wonder if that works both ways--if there's an equally amusing number of people who support this but are anti-free market and pro-regulation in everything else.
Absolutely! But both sides may generally be blind to their bias.
  • Hardcore capitalists might be uncomfortable about capitalism-for-athletes but find comfort in the fact that their opinion is consistent with the nostalgia that "amateurism is the pure way it's always been"
  • And capitalism-skeptics might be uncomfortable with NCAA market manipulation but find comfort in the fact that their opinion addresses a moral dilemma about kids, their real worth, and justice

« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 12:02:22 AM by Anonymous Coward »

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2019, 12:16:43 AM »
 the top of the G5 tends to be better and more entertaining than the bottom of the P5, at least IMO.
This is sort of statistically inevitable, btw.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2019, 12:21:13 AM »
While I principally agree that competitive advantage isn't real, maybe not the TCU example.

They're a whole ONE SEASON removed from 11 wins and a top-10 finish. In the last two full seasons, they've hit 10 wins as many times as Texas has the past nine. Two years ago doesn't quite earn the "remember" treatment.
They're 24-16 in their last 40 games.  They've already peaked...like all-time program peaked.  Their best HC in his best seasons didn't yield a NC.  They're a .500 program with 10-win blips.  That's good for them, historically, but pales in comparison to any one of the "haves" programs.  



“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

TyphonInc

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #48 on: September 11, 2019, 06:41:18 AM »
Frankly, when it comes to player compensation, the NCAA should probably consider it a win to allow kids to "independently collect whatever market value they have coming." Because that will negligibly (if at all) subtract from administrators salaries (at the NCAA and AD level), and if this goes all the way -- where the market values open AND the schools have to provide their revenue athletes market value stipends from AD revenue -- those administrator salaries are likely to be hit hardest and first. Likewise, many of these NCAA and AD suitcoat workforces are likely to see massive and permanent layoffs. And that isn't even to mention contraction of these AD's profit margins.

I disagree. People in positions of power rarely lose their power when change is made. It will be the other student athletes that get hurt. No AD is going to cut his salary drastically when instead he can get rid of 2 non-revenue sports and blame the Big Bad Football for it. "I had to get Volleyball and Fencing because of this new rule. I had no choice."

utee94

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #49 on: September 11, 2019, 07:35:07 AM »
This would also likely be illegal (violate the same antitrust laws as if the NCAA tried it). You just can't punish someone for following a state or federal law.
Sure, that's expected, and then the the next logical step is to disband the PAC.  Arizona and Oregon and Utah simply can't afford to allow the California schools' players to be paid, while theirs cannot.  The playing field would be unbelievably slanted in that case, and any chance at competition would cease to exist.

One way or the other, this has to end up all or nothing.  It might be within the construct of the NCAA.  It might not.  It might be within the construct of the current conferences.  It might not.

utee94

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2019, 07:39:45 AM »
For the fans or schools/administrators who make that argument, they come off as either blind or dishonest. These competitive advantages already exist in two types.

  • There's the NCAA-legal way (helmet schools have what they have; Washington State, Rutgers and the MAC don't). Ignoring that is blind (and/or dishonest)
  • And then there's the NCAA-illegal way (the culture of rampantly paying the players by bagmen). Ignoring that is dishonest (and/or blind)

All this rule change would do is look the current system in the face and admit that it is now all legal at the federal, state, *and* NCAA levels. Well, that, and two other effects:

  • the schools cheating most right now would be damaged the most relative to the effect on schools cheating the least right now
  • it'd make sure that the role player kids at P5 schools, the ones who start but will never play an NFL down, whose market value (across their whole lives) is never greater than it was from age 18 to 22, can finally collect on that market value, rather than be robbed of it because "our rules say capitalism is for everyone except you."


Oh I'm not disagreeing that a lot of schools cheat the system, I just don't agree that those that are cheating right now would be against this change.

The schools cheating the most right now would be happy to move that pay from under the table, to over the table.  This is an incredibly easy vehicle for them to do so.   And they'd avoid having to pay the bagmen and street agents and "trainers" and "7-on-7 Organizers" their cut.  They could either save some money, or they'd have more money to pay off their players.  The ones with the deepest pockets will be able to funnel the most money to recruits and they'd be delighted to be able to do it above-board. 

Make no mistake about it, the schools that are already paying players, are licking their lips at this opportunity.  

utee94

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2019, 07:42:46 AM »
This is sort of statistically inevitable, btw. 
By win/loss alone, sure.  But I'm also talking about the quality of play and entertainment value.  I don't think that's statistically inevitable.  

MrNubbz

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2019, 08:30:16 AM »
If this moves forward - it's time for the NFL to fund their Minor League.Universities need to come back the basics,fund all the student athletes or none of them.The NFL and Network Greed are behind this upheaval.Let them fund it,this could turn into a real mess.While I'm all for a kid making money off his likeness,they're already getting paid to play.Hate to say it but let the whole stack of cards fold - then they'll find out what is important.
"The problem with the rat race is even if you win - you're still just a rat" - Lily Tomlin

utee94

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2019, 08:40:56 AM »
If this moves forward - it's time for the NFL to fund their Minor League.Universities need to come back the basics,fund all the student athletes or none of them.The NFL and Network Greed are behind this upheaval.Let them fund it,this could turn into a real mess.While I'm all for a kid making money off his likeness,they're already getting paid to play.Hate to say it but let the whole stack of cards fold - then they'll find out what is important.
Right now the NFL enjoys most of the benefits of a minor league, for free.

The only thing better than that, would be a minor league that generates profits.  Since the NFL hasn't bothered to do this yet, it tells me they don't believe they can successfully create a minor league that would generate profits for them.  And until they believe that can happen, they have no incentive to abandon their current free system and replace it with something that costs them money.

MrNubbz

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2019, 09:27:47 AM »
I get that,but Universities can just say enough we're in the business of educating young adults not providing entertainment for the networks.The problem is IMO from a collegiate POV is that most sports in most programs are money losers - this is what is brushed aside.Not a lot of DI programs turn a profit after "ALL" the bills/program expenses are paid for
"The problem with the rat race is even if you win - you're still just a rat" - Lily Tomlin

rolltidefan

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2019, 10:09:21 AM »
ya gotta admit that there's more equality and competitive balance now than before the ships were limited to 85 in 1992

Georgia State didn't have a chance vs Tennessee back in 1972


there is some stats that, if they don't refute it, then at least muddy it so that that narrative isn't a clear one. i haven't looked at them in several years, but the win% of small schools vs big boys was actually higher before the limits (minutely, it was basically a wash). again, it's been a while, and these wins 'feel' more common, and maybe they are since i looked it up 5-10 years back, but i thought that was interesting.

 

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