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Topic: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation

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FearlessF

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2019, 10:02:16 PM »
yup, and the member institutions will decide to either allow compensation such as Cali or the Cali schools would not be members any longer if they decide to pay players

I don't see some NCAA members paying players in one or two or three states and the other members NOT paying players
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2019, 10:04:40 PM »
Ehhh, 9 out of 10 top 10 teams are helmet programs and/or new helmets (UF, FSU, Miamiesque) in any given week/season. 




Remember when TCU was good?  That was cute.  The next time they have  a 10-win season, will anyone be claiming "they're back!"???  No.  Because they're not Texas.  The competitive advantage is a joke (P5 vs G5, SEC & B10 helmets vs the rest of the country, Big State U vs State Tech, etc.).


The idea of competitive balance in college football is like a grandparent ribbing a 14 year old if Santa is going to visit him this year.  It's a lie, it's awkward, and it's unnecessary.
I agree to an extent.  But, Texas no longer gets more scholarships than TCU.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2019, 10:08:09 PM »
If 10 top recruits get offered by TCU and Texas, how many are going to TCU?  One?  Two?  



What's the aggregate income of TCU's top 10 boosters vs Texas' top 10?  



Magazine covers, fanbase sizes, national appeal,...literally anything you can think of - there is an advantage for one over the other.  Same with USC vs Fresno State, same with Ohio State and Cincinnati, etc.



I'm not saying programs just aren't equal, I'm saying there is zero equality.  I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, just that the notion of "competitive balance" is an avalanche of BS.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

utee94

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2019, 10:14:00 PM »
Well, remember the idea of the P5 programs + ND leaving the NCAA and starting their own thing?  Maybe this is the start of that. 


Alas, if that happens, it might be similar to getting rid of all the illegal immigrants in one fell swoop - the G5 schools do all the jobs none of the P5 programs want to do.....


(not getting political here, just seeing a parallel)
Exactly and I totally agree.  This could be a step toward that big breakaway.

I'm not saying I agree with it or like it, but nobody's asking me.  G5 schools can be fun to watch, the top of the G5 tends to be better and more entertaining than the bottom of the P5, at least IMO.

Hawkinole

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2019, 10:24:08 PM »
I would like to learn how to turn it around from having to pay for my portrait, to being paid for my portrait or likeness.

bayareabadger

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2019, 10:35:21 PM »
Ehhh, 9 out of 10 top 10 teams are helmet programs and/or new helmets (UF, FSU, Miamiesque) in any given week/season. 




Remember when TCU was good?  That was cute.  The next time they have  a 10-win season, will anyone be claiming "they're back!"???  No.  Because they're not Texas.  The competitive advantage is a joke (P5 vs G5, SEC & B10 helmets vs the rest of the country, Big State U vs State Tech, etc.).


The idea of competitive balance in college football is like a grandparent ribbing a 14 year old if Santa is going to visit him this year.  It's a lie, it's awkward, and it's unnecessary.
While I principally agree that competitive advantage isn't real, maybe not the TCU example.

They're a whole ONE SEASON removed from 11 wins and a top-10 finish. In the last two full seasons, they've hit 10 wins as many times as Texas has the past nine. Two years ago doesn't quite earn the "remember" treatment. 

MarqHusker

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2019, 10:36:17 PM »
The NCAA derives its power solely and entirely from its member institutions.  If the member institutions decide to revoke some or all of that power, the member institutions are all but guaranteed to be able to do so.  Georgia and Oklahoma proved this beyond all doubt in 1984.

The state of California is enabling universities within its borders to take that another step further. 
Great summation.  All the case law with the OU/UGA TV Rights case, the J Tarkanian case puts forth a very clear road map to end run the NCAA.  We debated this like crazy in a sports law seminar 15+ yrs ago, I can't believe we are in the same place.  I was dead wrong on how fast this would unravel.

Like I need another lecture on how stupid market timing is...

bayareabadger

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2019, 10:37:12 PM »
I'd guess the NCAA will either be all in or all out

the NCAA mission is regulating competitive advantage
The NCAA mission is maintaining its own strange ecosystem, one that balances capitalistic and anti-capitalistic themes, always has its hand out to enrich of an amateur game and seeks to leverage its customers (and maybe get leveraged) at every turn. 

utee94

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2019, 10:41:42 PM »
While I principally agree that competitive advantage isn't real, maybe not the TCU example.

They're a whole ONE SEASON removed from 11 wins and a top-10 finish. In the last two full seasons, they've hit 10 wins as many times as Texas has the past nine. Two years ago doesn't quite earn the "remember" treatment.
You're also talking about possibly the worst decade in UT football history, but I don't disagree that TCU has been pretty good for a while now.

FearlessF

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2019, 10:42:24 PM »
If 10 top recruits get offered by TCU and Texas, how many are going to TCU?  One?  Two? 



What's the aggregate income of TCU's top 10 boosters vs Texas' top 10? 



Magazine covers, fanbase sizes, national appeal,...literally anything you can think of - there is an advantage for one over the other.  Same with USC vs Fresno State, same with Ohio State and Cincinnati, etc.



I'm not saying programs just aren't equal, I'm saying there is zero equality.  I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, just that the notion of "competitive balance" is an avalanche of BS.
ya gotta admit that there's more equality and competitive balance now than before the ships were limited to 85 in 1992

Georgia State didn't have a chance vs Tennessee back in 1972

"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Anonymous Coward

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2019, 11:03:09 PM »
So the California legislature basically just wrote a bill preventing their colleges from enforcing NCAA amateurism requirements. They can't affect NCAA requirements directly, so it's basically daring the NCAA to sanction them.

I imagine this will end well...
Here's an interesting article from Forbes.com arguing that it would violate antitrust laws for the NCAA to sanction the California schools. Because trade organizations bylaws are not allowed to force members to violate state or federal government.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcedelman/2019/06/25/ncaa-cant-legally-ban-california-schools-for-allowing-athletes-to-profit-from-their-names-images-and-likenesses/#3181c74f273f

Anyway, as has been mentioned, this law was deliberately written to begin in 2023 because the legislators wanted to give the NCAA that long to come up with a new plan. If the NCAA and its lawyers wait that long and don't come up with something better than "try sanctioning California" schools, then they never even bothered to try.

Just strategically, the NCAA is at a critical moment. They are effectively losing all battles in courts and legislatures, but they haven't lost all leverage. There is still time for the NCAA to recognize the inevitable future of the sport, pivot accordingly, and try to pull off a "kids-NCAA compromise" about that future before the future gets sick of waiting and decides to smack that NCAA ass however it likes.

Frankly, when it comes to player compensation, the NCAA should probably consider it a win to allow kids to "independently collect whatever market value they have coming." Because that will negligibly (if at all) subtract from administrators salaries (at the NCAA and AD level), and if this goes all the way -- where the market values open AND the schools have to provide their revenue athletes market value stipends from AD revenue -- those administrator salaries are likely to be hit hardest and first. Likewise, many of these NCAA and AD suitcoat workforces are likely to see massive and permanent layoffs. And that isn't even to mention contraction of these AD's profit margins.

Just open the kids to their market value already. That 100% solves the moral issue while also staving off AD damage and loss of all these suitcoat jobs. The NCAA would do well to acknowledge this as a best-case compromise, rather than some radical future for them to block B.A.M.N.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 11:51:00 PM by Anonymous Coward »

Anonymous Coward

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2019, 11:13:37 PM »
I could see calls for the PAC itself to sanction the California schools that decide to go along with the law.
This would also likely be illegal (violate the same antitrust laws as if the NCAA tried it). You just can't punish someone for following a state or federal law.

Anonymous Coward

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2019, 11:19:19 PM »
But, because this is also a pretty easy and convenient vehicle to funnel funds to recruits and players, and therefore a pretty direct way to gain significant competitive advantage over any non-California schools, the protests from schools all over the country are going to become quite vocal as well. 
For the fans or schools/administrators who make that argument, they come off as either blind or dishonest. These competitive advantages already exist in two types.

  • There's the NCAA-legal way (helmet schools have what they have; Washington State, Rutgers and the MAC don't). Ignoring that is blind (and/or dishonest)
  • And then there's the NCAA-illegal way (the culture of rampantly paying the players by bagmen). Ignoring that is dishonest (and/or blind)

All this rule change would do is look the current system in the face and admit that it is now all legal at the federal, state, *and* NCAA levels. Well, that, and two other effects:

  • the schools cheating most right now would be damaged the most relative to the effect on schools cheating the least right now
  • it'd make sure that the role player kids at P5 schools, the ones who start but will never play an NFL down, whose market value (across their whole lives) is never greater than it was from age 18 to 22, can finally collect on that market value, rather than be robbed of it because "our rules say capitalism is for everyone except you."
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 11:53:46 PM by Anonymous Coward »

Anonymous Coward

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2019, 11:29:08 PM »
There was always enough money for stipends for 200-250 mens and womens scholarship athletes at D1.
I don't think any of the best solutions involve stipends. Just let the kids collect whatever their market value says they're worth. If that's a stranger passing a $100 restaurant gift card one time, well that kid's football talents weren't worth much, but hey how nice for him that he got what he had coming. If it's ten grand to smile for a local auto dealer commercial in syndication, well, then that kid has modest value and is getting every extra cent he's worth too. And if it's a half-million in a brief case. Well cool. That dude is sure worth a lot. And now that the NCAA allows it, he'll do well to finally claim it when it comes to tax season. 

Each of these scenarios finally make the kids part of our capitalistic society like everyone else. Some get a little. Others get a lot. And everyone gets what the market says they deserve.

 

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