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Topic: Best #25

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Entropy

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Re: Best #25
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2018, 12:09:15 PM »
Would have been great had Gordon played in the 4th against UNL that one time... Probably could have passed the 500 yard mark that day.



no.. it wouldn't have been great....

Entropy

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Re: Best #25
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2018, 12:10:48 PM »
I voted Rocket.   Gordon and Charles were great backs and both I considered.   Rocket was a non husker I followed when I was younger.   I remember him as magic on the field...

Hoss

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Re: Best #25
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2018, 12:41:03 PM »
I take the stats for any back over the past 10-15 years with some skepticism. For one, tackling in the college game has gone to utter and complete shit. Second, running from spread sets has been a gamechanger...looking at nationwide averages, the number of rushing attempts is per game is at all-time lows, while YPC averages are at all-time highs. Guys are running through space instead of into weighted fronts. 

What somebody like Simms, Rozier, Sanders, Dorsett et al would have accomplished under those circumstances is only a guess, but its a good bet their YPC numbers would be higher. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Best #25
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2018, 03:20:44 PM »
Your first point is jut an assertion.  If you go look at old-school videos, the tackling was shit back then, too.
Secondly, Wisconsin isn't known for it's spread formations, is it?  lol

Actually, your overall point is very true, which is why Weatherspoon is at 8.2 ypc - Houston was running the run-and-shoot, probably facing 7-8 guys dropping back in coverage every play to defend Ware and the passing game.  So that was a type of preview into more modern-day spread running games, a la West Virignia and Urban Meyer, etc.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Best #25
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2018, 03:22:06 PM »
too bad many Husker and Sooner backs didn't play the 4th quarter or even the 2nd half in many games
That kept their YPC averages high, then.  More carries = lower YPC
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

SFBadger96

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Re: Best #25
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2018, 03:22:44 PM »
I voted Rocket.   Gordon and Charles were great backs and both I considered.   Rocket was a non husker I followed when I was younger.   I remember him as magic on the field...
I remember the "phantom clip" that saved Colorado's MNC. (But I voted for Gordon.)

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Best #25
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2018, 03:28:10 PM »
That's the over-the-top moment Ismail became a legend in my eyes - the announcers just assuming CU wouldn't kick to him...then they do....game is ending.  He's skinny and someone grabs him, but then he springs free and takes it to the house.  Most epic, clutch moment possible......but then there's laundry on the field.


The thing about that, I didn't care about ND, so I didn't care about the win.  It was like a major fact being revealed in a courtroom, but then the jury being told to strike it......ehhh, no, I saw it happen, so it's real, lol.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

SFBadger96

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Re: Best #25
« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2018, 03:41:09 PM »
Another way to look at it this (re Gordon) is how his teammates were doing at the same time. He was only the feature back his senior season. He shared carries with Ball (the #1) and White his freshman and sophomore seasons (Ball or Ball and White were the feature backs), with White and Clement his junior season (Gordon and White were evenly split as the main backs--White had a handful more carries than Gordon), and with Clement and Ogunbawale his senior year (the only season he was truly Wisconsin's feature back). On the one hand, why wasn't he the feature back sooner if he was that good? On the other hand, because Ball was (and may be again) and White is still an NFL back, so no slouches themselves.

His 8 ypc his senior year were significantly better than Clement and Ogunbawale (the latter being a frosh, I think, so best not to read too much into that), more than a yard per carry better than White his junior year (with approximately the same number of carries), way better than Ball and White his sophomore season (at 10 ypc, but on way fewer carries than either of those guys--Ball was at 5.1 as the feature back, white was at 6.4), and as a frosh--unsurprisingly--he was about average for the team.

Wisconsin backs get dinged for being "system" backs because Wisconsin typically has beastly offensive lines that open big holes. No question Badger backs--and Gordon--benefit from that. On the other hand, Gordon's production was substantially better than his Badger peers, both over his career--which included other professional-level Badger backs--and relative to other Badgers who had similarly dominant offensive lines (think the Ball/White/Clay years).

Gordon was really, really good. Best #25 ever? I voted for him, but there are a lot of good options.

FearlessF

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Re: Best #25
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2018, 03:59:59 PM »
That kept their YPC averages high, then.  More carries = lower YPC
nope, defenses were worn down and the YPC actually went up, their backups proved it.
I'm saying
668 Rozier (Neb) 7.2
could have been easily over 700 carries and stayed above 7 ypc, if Rozier hadn't been a JUCO, perhaps over 800 carries with the plus 7 YPC average
those O-lines in 1981, 82, 83 were dominant.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

ELA

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Re: Best #25
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2018, 04:42:01 PM »
I remember the "phantom clip" that saved Colorado's MNC. (But I voted for Gordon.)
I still don't think it was a bad call.  It just sucks that it negated probably the greatest return in football history accounting for degree of difficulty and importance of the game/moment

SFBadger96

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Re: Best #25
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2018, 04:58:25 PM »
It was a questionable call. I mean that in the true meaning of the word--fans for either side could complain about it if it went against them and would have a decent argument. To me it looks like the block is to the player's side, but there's an argument that it was from behind his shoulder. I'm sure Colorado fans take the opposite view. And it may not have changed the outcome of the play, but without that block, the Colorado player has a much better shot at the tackle.

To me, stopping the play at the moment right before the block, from the TV angle, it looks like the Notre Dame player is a hair ahead of the Colorado player and makes a clean block to his side. But I'm not unbiased. At :40-41 in this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqC_Br3cDJg
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 05:01:42 PM by SFBadger96 »

ELA

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Re: Best #25
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2018, 05:06:09 PM »
I agree with that.  I actually went and rewatched it before making my post, to make sure my recollection was correct.  As you said that replay angle makes it look like a worse call than live.  Live it seems like an easy call, but the direction he falls makes it so.  Not that he was diving, but it's weird, given the angle the Irish player comes in at, for him to fall straight forward like that.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Best #25
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2018, 05:17:20 PM »
If you know football and you're looking for it, it looks clean.  But the refs are looking at 20 different things and as a flash in your peripheral vision and the way he landed, it looks like a clip.

I just love the ND guy downfield as Rocket passes the kicker totally not worrying about blocking either of the 2 Buffs near him, he knows Ismail is gone, lol.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Best #25
« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2018, 05:20:09 PM »
nope, defenses were worn down and the YPC actually went up, their backups proved it.
I'm saying
668 Rozier (Neb) 7.2
could have been easily over 700 carries and stayed above 7 ypc, if Rozier hadn't been a JUCO, perhaps over 800 carries with the plus 7 YPC average
those O-lines in 1981, 82, 83 were dominant.
Fearless, you're not understanding.  Their backups having higher YPC averages proves my point.  They attained those in far fewer carries.  If you saddle any starting RB with 100 more carries in a season, his YPC average will decrease - it's simple statistics.  Yes, even against worn-down defenses.  The RBs themselves are more worn-down with more carries.  That's why they have backups.
For carries (as with all things) - the greater the sample size grows, the more there is regression to the mean.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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