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Topic: #7 Penn State (3-1, 6-1) at #3 Ohio State (4-0, 7-0) Post Game

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FearlessF

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2023, 09:18:41 AM »
I'd go 20+ times a game
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2023, 11:21:42 AM »
Over my lunchbreak I watched the College Football Nerds preview.  They both picked PSU but both by pretty close scores and both were hesitant due to some interesting oddities in their model. 

If you aren't familiar with their model, they compare yards per play gained and allowed on both passing and rushing plays to the average allowed/gained by the opponent.  Ie, if you rush for 6 YPC against a D that typically allows 4 YPC, that is great, 50% over the average.  Conversely, if you rush for 6 YPC against a D that typically allows 8 YPC, that is terrible, 25% below the average.  The same theory applies to passing yards per attempt and to both rushing and passing yards per play allowed defensively. 

What I found interesting is that they predicted that tOSU would gain considerably more yards per play and have more yards in the game but that PSU would win anyway because PSU's offense has been a LOT more efficient than tOSU's. 

More specifically they predicted that both rushing offenses would be ineffective.  Ohio State's was slightly worse at 2.7 YPC but PSU's 2.9 is only marginally better and both of those figures are BAD.  Also the 0.2 YPC difference is basically irrelevant.  To put it in perspective, on 30 carries each, that would suggest 81 yards for tOSU and 87 yards for PSU.  Both of those are obviously terrible. 

Where Ohio State had a significant advantage is in passing YPA.  PSU was around 5 YPA predicted while tOSU was around 6.5 YPA predicted.  Both of those figures are bad but not quite as bad as the rushing figures and the difference is much more pronounced.  Assuming 30 passing attempts each, that suggests about 150 yards for PSU and around 195 yards for Ohio State. 

The problem for Ohio State is that they throw away WAY too many yards.  Both nerds thought or at least considered it not unlikely that tOSU would have more scoring opportunities but that PSU would get more points out of the scoring opportunities that they do get. 

I think that is not an unlikely outcome. 

The most likely thing to change that, IMHO, would be for either McCord or Allar to have either a really bad or a really good game.  I think this game is close enough that any of those four things would decide the game unless it is matched by the other QB.   

A second thing that I think could matter a LOT is whether or not Henderson is available and full strength for the Buckeyes.  IMHO, Henderson is MUCH more likely than any of Ohio State's other RB's to break a long run.  The stats from the ND game illustrate this perfectly.  For that game tOSU had 27 carries for 126 yards for a respectable 4.7 YPC.  However, that was really all about Henderson hitting a Home Run from the tOSU 39 yard line.  With that ONE rush excluded from tOSU's total, they had 26 carries for 65 yards which is a pathetic 2.5 YPC.  I see this game being close enough that a run like that could be the difference.  If Ohio State has 19 carries for 51 yards (2.7 YPC, see above) but Henderson breaks one for 60+ that would total 20 carries for 111+ yards (5.5+ YPC). 

The final thing that I see as crucial is explosive plays and this could go either way:

  • PSU has been great at generating explosive plays defensively but terrible at generating explosive plays offensively. 
  • tOSU has been great at generating explosive plays offensively but terrible at generating explosive plays defensively. 

Based on the above, you are most likely to see explosive plays when Ohio State's offense is on the field.  How many go each way and just how explosive they are will likely decide the game.  PSU is going to get some pressure and some sacks but sacks aren't necessarily fatal if there aren't too many of them.  Similarly, tOSU is going to hit some longer passes but giving up a few long passes isn't necessarily fatal either.  Either team can overcome that if they are a limited number of sacks that just result in punts or long passes that just result in another set of downs or a FG. 

Where it likely becomes decisive is if tOSU gives up 2+ strip sacks or if PSU gives up 2+ long TD passes. 

Another thing the nerds said in tOSU's favor is that tOSU has probably played their best ball in the last six quarters. 

I mean the nerds are OK, but I do have my issues with them. 

For instance, they adjust team yards per play based on their opponents, which is great.  Then they throw that logic out the window when it comes to comparing QBs.  Opponents matter. The quality of your receivers matter. Drops matter. OLine matters. Etc. 

Adjust rushing stats to reflect the actual running game—- why don’t they adjust for QB sacks, kneel downs, etc?

frankly, as a data guy, I’m not that impressed with their data skills. Better than most, but not quite up to my nerd standards.  

I suppose the model is good for a quick and dirty comparison of 120+ teams. 


Mdot21

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Re: #7 Penn State 3-0/6-0 at #3 Ohio State 3-0/6-0 Game week
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2023, 12:10:36 PM »
Strength vs. Strength

Penn State has the best cornerback in the B1G
he's really dang good, but Will Johnson is better. 

Mdot21

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2023, 12:18:38 PM »
my hot take: I don't see Penn State being very successful in moving the ball and scoring points on a really good Ohio State defense. Penn State has been really bad at creating explosive plays- I believe worst in P5 right now- and they are pretty meh at WR and Drew Allar is still basically a 19 year old rookie and not a seasoned vet who has his highs and lows. Don't see them being able to consistently sustain drives and march down the field and score TD's on the road vs a really good Ohio State defense. They'll need to generate explosive plays to beat Ohio State- and well- they don't do that very well. 

Ohio State has the best player in college football in Marv and if Henderson is healthy they have a guy who can hit the home run at RB. They should be able to score more points and generate more big plays at home vs Penn State D than Penn State O will vs Ohio State D. That plus the James Franklin factor should give Ohio State the W imo. Franklin is bound to mismanage the clock and critical in-game situations which tilts the game to the other team- it's just what he does in big games. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2023, 02:27:03 PM »
I think @Mdot21 is basically saying something similar to what I am saying which is that Ohio State's best chance is big plays. 

I could see a scenario in which PSU's D more-or-less stifles tOSU's offense except for three plays. However, if those three plays go for 180 yards and three TD's, I could see tOSU winning 21-17.

bayareabadger

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2023, 03:42:33 PM »
Considered going to this game. Not doing it, but a little conflicted. 

MrNubbz

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2023, 07:45:40 PM »
he's really dang good, but Will Johnson is better.
Splitting hairs Johnson benefits from prolly more help around him
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Mdot21

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2023, 07:49:34 PM »
Splitting hairs Johnson benefits from prolly more help around him
nah. it's pretty simple really. 6'3" CB with long arms that can turn his hips and run with WRs typically beats 5'10.5". 

Will Johnson is a mutant as far as CB's go.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2023, 07:57:35 PM »
It's funny that people complain about PSU not having enough big plays while they're averaging 44 points per game.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2023, 08:16:27 PM »
It's funny that people complain about PSU not having enough big plays while they're averaging 44 points per game.
against an ass schedule that the bald penis James Franklin has been actively trying to run up the score on. 126 of Penn State's points this season were vs a bad FCS team and the worst team in the FBS in UMass. People talk bad about Michigan's schedule, and rightfully so. Penn State's schedule is just as laughingly pathetic.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2023, 09:05:26 PM »
UM isn't averaging 44 pts per game.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

slugsrbad

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2023, 05:54:27 AM »

James Franklin is a bald penis, not sure I’ve seen that before. 

Little confidence Penn State can win, but here’s to hoping. 

Mdot21

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2023, 07:49:35 AM »
James Franklin is a bald penis, not sure I’ve seen that before.

Little confidence Penn State can win, but here’s to hoping.
sorry, I just don't like the guy. what can i say? I respect Penn State's program, university, and they have great fans- really some of the better fans in this conference at least imo- but man did I say I really do not like James Franklin.

 

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