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Topic: #7 Penn State (3-1, 6-1) at #3 Ohio State (4-0, 7-0) Post Game

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MrNubbz

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Re: #7 Penn State 3-0/6-0 at #3 Ohio State 3-0/6-0 Game week
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2023, 03:13:18 PM »
Yeah, we do.

I watched him play in HS and wish he'd gone to Columbus.
Ya I was kind of hoping to but ya can't get them all
« Last Edit: October 16, 2023, 03:24:51 PM by MrNubbz »
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Geolion91

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Re: #7 Penn State 3-0/6-0 at #3 Ohio State 3-0/6-0 Game week
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2023, 09:04:35 PM »
I’m cautiously optimistic that the real good guys ( the ones in white) will pull this one out.

Both teams have been slow out of the blocks on offense. Whichever one gets going first wins.

Hawkinole

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Re: #7 Penn State 3-0/6-0 at #3 Ohio State 3-0/6-0 Game week
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2023, 01:42:15 AM »
I attended the very first league game between tOSU and PSU in Columbus as a freshman on Halloween weekend of 1993. The Buckeyes won that one and have more-or-less dominated the series ever since.
You are a young Buck(eye). That said, I appreciate your references to history.
This Penn State team is loaded. QB Drew Allar is young, but he is damned good. He tossed 4 TDs on Iowa's damned good defense.
Ohio Stadium is a house of horrors. Penn State has been somewhat turnover prone. If Penn State controls its turnovers, lookout Ohio State. Penn State whipped Iowa. Iowa is offenseless, but still -- Penn State administered a whipping on Iowa's defense, too.
Ohio State is not great on offense. Ohio State has a defense as good as Iowa's. I see this coming down to turnovers, penalties, and weird special teams plays. I am thinking Penn State wins.

MrNubbz

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Re: #7 Penn State 3-0/6-0 at #3 Ohio State 3-0/6-0 Game week
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2023, 07:24:08 AM »
Good Post except for the last sentence
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: #7 Penn State 3-0/6-0 at #3 Ohio State 3-0/6-0 Game week
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2023, 07:39:34 AM »
You are a young Buck(eye). That said, I appreciate your references to history.
This Penn State team is loaded. QB Drew Allar is young, but he is damned good. He tossed 4 TDs on Iowa's damned good defense.
Ohio Stadium is a house of horrors. Penn State has been somewhat turnover prone. If Penn State controls its turnovers, lookout Ohio State. Penn State whipped Iowa. Iowa is offenseless, but still -- Penn State administered a whipping on Iowa's defense, too.
Ohio State is not great on offense. Ohio State has a defense as good as Iowa's. I see this coming down to turnovers, penalties, and weird special teams plays. I am thinking Penn State wins.

While I don’t disagree with your conclusion ( game is a coin flip to me), you mentioned that “ OSU is not good on offense”. 

they are number 1 in the conference in total offense.
PSU is number 1 in total defense in the country and Ohio State is number seven. 

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/21
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

MaximumSam

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Re: #7 Penn State 3-0/6-0 at #3 Ohio State 3-0/6-0 Game week
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2023, 07:49:32 AM »
One thing I noticed a bit against Maryland and a lot against Purdue was McCord dropping back too far. That makes things pretty difficult on his tackles. He got away with it, but he might get punished by PSU

medinabuckeye1

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Re: #7 Penn State 3-0/6-0 at #3 Ohio State 3-0/6-0 Game week
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2023, 08:35:40 AM »
You are a young Buck(eye). That said, I appreciate your references to history.
Not long ago I called @ELA young. He liked it since he is ~40. I'm almost 50 so being called young isn't very common for me.
While I don’t disagree with your conclusion ( game is a coin flip to me), you mentioned that “ OSU is not good on offense”. 

they are number 1 in the conference in total offense.
PSU is number 1 in total defense in the country and Ohio State is number seven.

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/21
I continue to believe that Ohio State's offense has an extremely high upside/ceiling/potential.

They haven't been great and they've looked downright awful at times, but their flashes of brilliance have been extremely bright. Two examples:
Right before the winning TD at Notre Dame:
It was third and 19 and this was one of the toughest third down conversion I've ever seen. Complications:
  • It was long at 19 yards.
  • The offense had no deep threat because the line to gain was close to the goal line.
  • Time was running out and the offense had no timeouts so the middle of the field short of the line to gain was unavailable.
That is a REALLY tough conversion. Ohio State picked it up.

The turning point in the Maryland game:
Ohio State was up three but ended up in a Second and 33.

I've been watching Ohio State for decades and frankly under Earl Bruce, John Cooper, or Jim Tressel a second and 33 was a good opportunity to step away for a minute. Under those guys the Buckeyes would most likely have run a few times to try to improve field position then punted to play defense.

Honestly, in the whole history of college football, what percentage of second and 30+ situations do you think have been converted? I'd guess <10%.

Ohio State picked that up all on one play.

I'm not sure what tOSU offense will show up on Saturday. If it is the "Pound round pegs into square holes" version the Lions will stifle it. If it is the offense that is capable of achieving ridiculous things like the two examples above, nobody in CFB has a defense that can stop them.


Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: #7 Penn State 3-0/6-0 at #3 Ohio State 3-0/6-0 Game week
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2023, 12:05:32 PM »
The schedule strength has been similar.  Ohio State's two best opponents are Notre Dame and Maryland.  Penn State has faced Iowa and West Virginia.

Strength vs. Strength

Penn State has the best cornerback in the B1G, and the overall best pass defense in the country.
Ohio State has the best wide receiver in the country, and the best passing offense in the conference.
Something has got to give here.

Weakness vs. Strength

Penn State leads the B1G in sacks allowed, only allowing 6 so far YTD.
Ohio State has only sacked their opponents 10 times this season, good for 13th in the B1G.

Penn State leads the B1G in sacks, Ohio State is in the middle of the B1G as far as sacks allowed.

Ohio State's rush defense per play is fourth in the conference, while PSU's rush offense per play is also fourth.  HOWEVER, a look beyond the stats will show that much of Penn State's rushing yardage came in the fourth quarter of blowout games, and much of it came via the second string QB.  Penn State has been able to grind out yards, but they have not been able to run for large chunks of yards.

I don't really see anywhere else that either team has a distinct advantage.

----------------------------------
Key to the game:

Ohio State's pass defense has been quite good, while PSU's passing offense has been average.  However, while PSU doesn't often hit big plays, they are quite successful at taking what the defense gives them. Penn State's number two receiver has returned, and their tight ends have been great all year.  How well does OSU defend pass catching tight ends?  PSU has already faced Iowa and had success.  Has OSU faced anyone of PSU's caliber?

If PSU has moderate success throwing the ball, I think they will win. 

-------------

Other factors:

If OSU's offensive* line can give their wide receivers time to get open, AND those receivers can get open against the best secondary they will face this year, AND Ryan Day decides to pass the ball...

OSU is talented enough they can certainly get some big plays.  PSU is vulnerable to big plays thanks to their attacking defensive style. 

Penn State's kicking game is looking weaker than normal.  Ohio State's looks good.  This could be the deciding factor in a slug fest.

PSU's rush defense may look incredible statistically, but that is largely driven by the 27 sacks they've had so far this year.  They have been GOOD, but are still vulnerable to a power running game up the middle.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2023, 12:31:52 PM by Big Beef Tacosupreme »

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2023, 12:19:11 PM »
I also want to @ELA to comment on this one.  He's better than any talking head on ESPN or elsewhere!

Honestbuckeye

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2023, 12:39:46 PM »
The schedule strength has been similar.  Ohio State's two best opponents are Notre Dame and Maryland.  Penn State has faced Iowa and West Virginia.

Strength vs. Strength

Penn State has the best cornerback in the B1G, and the overall best pass defense in the country.
Ohio State has the best wide receiver in the country, and the best passing offense in the conference.
Something has got to give here.

Weakness vs. Strength

Penn State leads the B1G in sacks allowed, only allowing 6 so far YTD.
Ohio State has only sacked their opponents 10 times this season, good for 13th in the B1G.

Penn State leads the B1G in sacks, Ohio State is in the middle of the B1G as far as sacks allowed.

Ohio State's rush defense per play is fourth in the conference, while PSU's rush offense per play is also fourth.  HOWEVER, a look beyond the stats will show that much of Penn State's rushing yardage came in the fourth quarter of blowout games, and much of it came via the second string QB.  Penn State has been able to grind out yards, but they have not been able to run for large chunks of yards.

I don't really see anywhere else that either team has a distinct advantage.

----------------------------------
Key to the game:

Ohio State's pass defense has been quite good, while PSU's passing offense has been average.  However, while PSU doesn't often hit big plays, they are quite successful at taking what the defense gives them. Penn State's number two receiver has returned, and their tight ends have been great all year.  How well does OSU defend pass catching tight ends?  PSU has already faced Iowa and had success.  Has OSU faced anyone of PSU's caliber?

If PSU has moderate success throwing the ball, I think they will win. 

-------------

Other factors:

If OSU's offensive* line can give their wide receivers time to get open, AND those receivers can get open against the best secondary they will face this year, AND Ryan Day decides to pass the ball...

OSU is talented enough they can certainly get some big plays.  PSU is vulnerable to big plays thanks to their attacking defensive style. 

Penn State's kicking game is looking weaker than normal.  Ohio State's looks good.  This could be the deciding factor in a slug fest.

PSU's rush defense may look incredible statistically, but that is largely driven by the 27 sacks they've had so far this year.  They have been GOOD, but are still vulnerable to a power running game up the middle.
Good thoughts. If Denzel Burke does not  play for Ohio State I think that makes Penn State’s path much easier
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

847badgerfan

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2023, 01:12:30 PM »
I also want to @ELA to comment on this one.  He's better than any talking head on ESPN or elsewhere!
Agreed.

He's a busy man these days.

I (we) miss his preseason rankings and weekly breakdowns, but I (we) get why.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

medinabuckeye1

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2023, 02:41:41 PM »
Over my lunchbreak I watched the College Football Nerds preview.  They both picked PSU but both by pretty close scores and both were hesitant due to some interesting oddities in their model. 

If you aren't familiar with their model, they compare yards per play gained and allowed on both passing and rushing plays to the average allowed/gained by the opponent.  Ie, if you rush for 6 YPC against a D that typically allows 4 YPC, that is great, 50% over the average.  Conversely, if you rush for 6 YPC against a D that typically allows 8 YPC, that is terrible, 25% below the average.  The same theory applies to passing yards per attempt and to both rushing and passing yards per play allowed defensively. 

What I found interesting is that they predicted that tOSU would gain considerably more yards per play and have more yards in the game but that PSU would win anyway because PSU's offense has been a LOT more efficient than tOSU's. 

More specifically they predicted that both rushing offenses would be ineffective.  Ohio State's was slightly worse at 2.7 YPC but PSU's 2.9 is only marginally better and both of those figures are BAD.  Also the 0.2 YPC difference is basically irrelevant.  To put it in perspective, on 30 carries each, that would suggest 81 yards for tOSU and 87 yards for PSU.  Both of those are obviously terrible. 

Where Ohio State had a significant advantage is in passing YPA.  PSU was around 5 YPA predicted while tOSU was around 6.5 YPA predicted.  Both of those figures are bad but not quite as bad as the rushing figures and the difference is much more pronounced.  Assuming 30 passing attempts each, that suggests about 150 yards for PSU and around 195 yards for Ohio State. 

The problem for Ohio State is that they throw away WAY too many yards.  Both nerds thought or at least considered it not unlikely that tOSU would have more scoring opportunities but that PSU would get more points out of the scoring opportunities that they do get. 

I think that is not an unlikely outcome. 

The most likely thing to change that, IMHO, would be for either McCord or Allar to have either a really bad or a really good game.  I think this game is close enough that any of those four things would decide the game unless it is matched by the other QB.   

A second thing that I think could matter a LOT is whether or not Henderson is available and full strength for the Buckeyes.  IMHO, Henderson is MUCH more likely than any of Ohio State's other RB's to break a long run.  The stats from the ND game illustrate this perfectly.  For that game tOSU had 27 carries for 126 yards for a respectable 4.7 YPC.  However, that was really all about Henderson hitting a Home Run from the tOSU 39 yard line.  With that ONE rush excluded from tOSU's total, they had 26 carries for 65 yards which is a pathetic 2.5 YPC.  I see this game being close enough that a run like that could be the difference.  If Ohio State has 19 carries for 51 yards (2.7 YPC, see above) but Henderson breaks one for 60+ that would total 20 carries for 111+ yards (5.5+ YPC). 

The final thing that I see as crucial is explosive plays and this could go either way:

  • PSU has been great at generating explosive plays defensively but terrible at generating explosive plays offensively. 
  • tOSU has been great at generating explosive plays offensively but terrible at generating explosive plays defensively. 

Based on the above, you are most likely to see explosive plays when Ohio State's offense is on the field.  How many go each way and just how explosive they are will likely decide the game.  PSU is going to get some pressure and some sacks but sacks aren't necessarily fatal if there aren't too many of them.  Similarly, tOSU is going to hit some longer passes but giving up a few long passes isn't necessarily fatal either.  Either team can overcome that if they are a limited number of sacks that just result in punts or long passes that just result in another set of downs or a FG. 

Where it likely becomes decisive is if tOSU gives up 2+ strip sacks or if PSU gives up 2+ long TD passes. 

Another thing the nerds said in tOSU's favor is that tOSU has probably played their best ball in the last six quarters. 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2023, 02:53:39 PM by medinabuckeye1 »

ELA

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2023, 02:50:23 PM »
I think the OSU injury problems at RB might be a blessing in disguise if it forces OSU to pass more than they want to

Mdot21

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Re: #7 Penn State (3-0, 6-0) at #3 Ohio State (3-0, 6-0) Game week
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2023, 08:09:23 PM »
I think the OSU injury problems at RB might be a blessing in disguise if it forces OSU to pass more than they want to
agreed. Marvin Harrison Jr is the best player in college football. Just throw him the damn ball 15 times a game and he's going to make crazy catches and big plays.

 

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