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Topic: 2022 B1G Offseason Thread

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847badgerfan

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2022 B1G Offseason Thread
« on: January 26, 2022, 01:43:27 PM »
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

847badgerfan

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Re: 2022 B1G Offseason Thread
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2022, 01:43:59 PM »
No more B1G West Indy sacrifices?
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2022 B1G Offseason Thread
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2022, 02:38:35 PM »
I like both.  

Dropping Divisional Play:
We've had a CG for eleven years, here are the match-ups and what they would have been with just the top two teams playing:

2011:  7-1 Michigan State vs 6-2 Wisconsin.  No difference.  With no divisions the Badgers and Wolverines would have tied for second at 6-2.  Using the typical B1G tiebreaker of record against the best team(s) in the league, then the next, then the next, this would have gone to Wisconsin.  

2012:  7-1 Nebraska vs 4-4 Wisconsin.  Wisconsin finished third in their division but the top two were ineligible for postseason play so they got in.  With no divisions the Cornhuskers would have played the 6-2 Wolverines.  

2013:  8-0 Michigan State vs 8-0 Ohio State.  No difference.  

2014:  8-0 Ohio State vs 7-1 Wisconsin.  No difference.  With no divisions the Badgers and Spartans would have tied for second at 7-1.  This would have gone to the Badgers.  

2015:  8-0 Iowa vs 7-1 Michigan State.  No difference.  The Spartans and Buckeyes were tied at 7-1 but MSU beat tOSU.  

2016:  8-1 Penn State vs 7-2 Wisconsin.  With no divisions the Nittany Lions would have played the 8-1 Buckeyes.  

2017:  9-0 Wisconsin vs 8-1 Ohio State.  No difference.  

2018:  8-1 Ohio State vs 8-1 Northwestern.  With no divisions all three of Ohio State, Northwestern, and Michigan would have tied for the two CG spots at 8-1.  The typical tiebreaker is H2H2H where Ohio State was 1-0 (beat M), Michigan was 1-1 (beat NU, lost to tOSU), and Northwestern was 0-1 (lost to M).  Thus the CG would have been tOSU vs M.  

2019:  9-0 Ohio State vs 7-2 Wisconsin.  No difference.  With no divisions all three of Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Penn State would have tied for the second CG spot at 7-2.  The typical tiebreaker is H2H2H were Wisconsin was 1-0 (beat MN), Minnesota was 1-1 (beat PSU, lost to UW), and Penn State was 0-1 (lost to MN).  

2020:  5-0 Ohio State vs 6-1 Northwestern.  No difference.  With no divisions the Wildcats and Hoosiers would have tied for the second CG spot at 6-1.  They didn't play so it goes to record against the best team in the league where Northwestern wins because they were 0-0 against tOSU while IU was 0-1.  

2021:  8-1 Michigan vs 7-2 Iowa.  With no divisions the Wolverines would have played the 8-1 Buckeyes.  

Net effect on B1G teams over the 11 years:

  • +2 Ohio State:  gains 2016 and 2021 appearances
  • +2 Michigan:  gains 2012 and 2018 appearances
  • -1 Northwestern:  loses 2018 appearance
  • -1 Iowa:  loses 2021 appearance
  • -2 Wisconsin:  loses 2012 and 2016 appearances


So this would have resulted in two tOSU/M rematches in 11 years (2018 and 2021).  If those were one week apart, IMHO, that would be ridiculous and insanely unfair to the team that won the first game (tOSU in 2018, M in 2021).  If we do this, I would probably be the only Buckeye in the world to say this, but I'd want to move THE GAME out of the final weekend for two reasons:
  • Because while I'm not a big fan of rematches in any case, I REALLY don't like them close together.  It is one thing to replay a game from a month or two earlier and see how the teams have grown and changed since then.  To replay a game from one week earlier does nothing but to make the first game effectively irrelevant.  
  • Because finishing a NC season with a typically difficult and high-stakes rivalry game then a typically difficult and high-stakes CCG, then a difficult and obviously high-stakes semi-final, then a difficult and obviously high-stakes CG is insane.  


medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2022 B1G Offseason Thread
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2022, 02:46:41 PM »
Dropping down to eight league games:
I'm all for it . . . IF the dropped ninth game is replaced with a quality opponent.  In 2021 Ohio State's three cross-overs were 6-3 MN, 6-3 PU, and 1-8 Nebraska so that is two decent teams and a big name.  I like those but they aren't always that good.  Michigan's, for example, were 6-3 Wisconsin, 1-8 Nebraska, and 1-8 Northwestern.  

I'd much rather have that game replaced by a PAC or ACC team that is at least expected to be comparable to the team in question.  Ie:

  • If your team is expected to be a NC contender you get an ACC/PAC team that is also expected to be very good.  
  • If your team is expected to be on the cusp of bowl eligibility you get an ACC/PAC team that is also expected to be middling.  
  • If your team is expected to be a bottom feeder you get an ACC/PAC team that is also expected to suck.  

Obviously this will not always work out but overall I think it would result in some quality games that we would all enjoy.  


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2022 B1G Offseason Thread
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2022, 03:08:49 PM »
Hmm, so if you get rid of divisional play, it benefits the helmets at the expense of everyone else. 

Sounds peachy. 

ELA

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Re: 2022 B1G Offseason Thread
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2022, 04:00:35 PM »
Hmm, so if you get rid of divisional play, it benefits the helmets at the expense of everyone else.

Sounds peachy.
Well, it certainly benefits the non-helmets that are stuck in a division with all of them.  To get there, we now just have to better than 2 of them, rather than all 3.

Certainly does not help the West teams

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2022 B1G Offseason Thread
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2022, 04:40:06 PM »
Hmm, so if you get rid of divisional play, it benefits the helmets at the expense of everyone else.

Sounds peachy.
I would think that the impact is more E/W driven than helmet/non-helmet.  

In the East you have Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State.  Making the CG is a major longshot for the other four schools.  Ohio State has obviously been on an incredible run but even ignoring the Buckeyes it isn't very common for Penn State and Michigan to be down at the same time.  Since the switch to E/W:
  • 8-1:  in 2016 PSU went 8-1 while M went 7-2.  PSU/tOSU tied for the division championship at 8-1.  
  • 8-1:  in 2018 M went 8-1 while PSU went 6-3.  M/tOSU tied for the division championship at 8-1.  
  • 8-1:  in 2021 M went 8-1 while PSU went 4-5.  M/tOSU tied for the division championship at 8-1.  
  • 7-2:  in 2017 PSU went 7-2 while M went 5-4.  tOSU won the division at 8-1.  
  • 7-2:  in 2019 PSU went 7-2 while M went 6-3.  tOSU won the division at 9-0.  
  • 6-2:  in 2015 M went 6-2 while PSU went 4-4.  MSU/tOSU tied for the division championship at 7-1.  
  • 4-5:  in 2020 PSU went 4-5 while M went 2-4.  tOSU won the division at 5-0.  
  • 3-5:  in 2014 M went 3-5 while PSU went 2-6.  tOSU won the division at 8-0.  


Note that in each of those eight years the Buckeyes finished at least tied for the B1G-E Championship.  Only twice did both Michigan and PSU finish sub .500 and both of those had extenuating circumstances not likely to repeat.  In 2014 PSU was still recovering from the Sandusky-related sanctions and 2020 was the pandemic year.  

Even if Ohio State hadn't been in the mix, either PSU or M finished with one loss three times and with two or fewer six out of the eight.  That makes winning the B1G-E a VERY tall order for MSU, IU, UMD, or RU.  Of the four only MSU has pulled it off and only once and going on six years ago.  Also note that 7-1 is the worst record the B1G-E Champion has ever had.  Four times the Division Champion was 1/2 game better at 8-1 and the other three tOSU went undefeated.  

The seven teams in the B1G-W simply don't have this problem.  Wisconsin has been the best team overall but they haven't been as good as Ohio State and the next two teams after them aren't remotely close to matching M/PSU.  

By way of comparison, here are the top three finishers in the B1G-W each year since the switch to E/W:
  • 7-1, 5-3, 5-3 for UW, MN, and UNL in 2014.  MN and UNL were two games out in the B1G-W but in the B1G-E they'd have been three games out of first and two games out of second.  
  • 8-0, 6-2, 6-2 for IA, NU, and UW in 2015.  NU and UW were actually closer in the B1G-W than they would have been in the B1G-E.  
  • 7-2, 6-3, 6-3 for UW, IA, and UNL in 2016.  IA and UNL were a game out in the B1G-W but in the B1G-E they'd have been two games behind two teams.  
  • 9-0, 7-2, 4-5 for UW, NU, and PU/IA in 2017.  The B1G-E had an 8-1 Champion and two 7-2 teams.  
  • 8-1, 5-4, 5-4 for NU, UW/PU/IA in 2018.  The B1G-E had two 8-1 teams.  
  • 7-2, 7-2, 6-3 for UW, MN, and IA in 2019.  UW/MN tied for the Championship but they'd have been two games out in the B1G-E.  
  • 6-1, 6-2, 3-3 for NU, IA, and UW in 2020.  The B1G-E had an undefeated team and a one-loss team.  
  • 7-2, 6-3, 6-3 for IA, MN/UW/PU in 2021.  The B1G-E had two 8-1 teams and a 7-2 team.  

Purdue has a chance in the B1G-W but they'd have almost no chance in the B1G-E.  Look at 2021.  Purdue would have been in the B1GCG if they'd have had one more win but in the B1G-E they'd have been two games behind TWO teams so even upsetting Ohio State would only have gotten them into a three-way tie for second behind Michigan.  


Hawkinole

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Re: 2022 B1G Offseason Thread
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2022, 10:46:08 AM »
:Big Ten considering eliminating divisions, Iowa AD says (msn.com)
The source for this story is Iowa A.D. Gary Barta.
Big Ten is considering an 8-game conference schedule, and considering arranging games with ACC and PAC-12.
Considerations are reportedly due to an effort to place more teams in the expanded playoff, and improve TV revenues for the 2023 new media rights contract, and not to mention that Iowa, Northwestern, and Wisconsin have proven incapable of winning a conference championship game, to date.
The article omits to mention Ohio State needs a second bite at the apple from time-to-time in their series against Michigan. \_:)_/. I do not wish to see that game played two-consecutive weeks to close the season 25% or more of the years. I am not sure I would watch the BTCG on television if that occurs.


medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2022 B1G Offseason Thread
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2022, 11:02:47 AM »
Can we merge this with this thread where it is already under discussion.  

Hawkinole

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Re: 2022 B1G Offseason Thread
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2022, 12:29:11 PM »
I agree, but I didn't see it before posting.

bayareabadger

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Re: 2022 B1G Offseason Thread
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2022, 06:40:52 PM »
:Big Ten considering eliminating divisions, Iowa AD says (msn.com)
The source for this story is Iowa A.D. Gary Barta.
Big Ten is considering an 8-game conference schedule, and considering arranging games with ACC and PAC-12.
Considerations are reportedly due to an effort to place more teams in the expanded playoff, and improve TV revenues for the 2023 new media rights contract, and not to mention that Iowa, Northwestern, and Wisconsin have proven incapable of winning a conference championship game, to date.
The article omits to mention Ohio State needs a second bite at the apple from time-to-time in their series against Michigan. \_:)_/. I do not wish to see that game played two-consecutive weeks to close the season 25% or more of the years. I am not sure I would watch the BTCG on television if that occurs.


To date. Here's a list of every team with more Big Ten title game winds that Wisconsin: 

Ohio Stae

Here's a list of teams with as many wins as UW:

Michigan State

Incapable, huh?

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: 2022 B1G Offseason Thread
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2022, 07:11:03 PM »
Michigan State is solid enough that they could have the stars align maybe once per decade and win the East. 

Maryland could maybe get there once in 25 years if they can bring in all the right pieces at the right time. 

Rutgers and Indiana have no chance. Maybe once in a hundred years tops. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Abba

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Re: 2022 B1G Offseason Thread
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2022, 09:55:51 PM »
Michigan State is solid enough that they could have the stars align maybe once per decade and win the East.

Maryland could maybe get there once in 25 years if they can bring in all the right pieces at the right time.

Rutgers and Indiana have no chance. Maybe once in a hundred years tops.
A once in a 100 year pandemic almost got Indiana there last year.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2022 B1G Offseason Thread
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2022, 10:18:10 PM »
To date. Here's a list of every team with more Big Ten title game winds that Wisconsin:

Ohio Stae

Here's a list of teams with as many wins as UW:

Michigan State

Incapable, huh?
I think he was referring to the B1G-W which is 0-fer in B1GCG's.  Both of Wisconsin's B1GCG's came during the old Legends/Leaders era. 

I wouldn't say that Wisconsin can't now, but that Legends/Leaders happened to coincide with tOSU being briefly down (tatoos), PSU being down (Sandusky), and Michigan also being down (general malaise) so in those three years of Legends/Leaders four teams made the B1GCG:
  • Wisconsin made two, 2-0 (beat MSU and UNL)
  • Michigan State made two, 1-1 (beat tOSU, lost to UW)
  • Nebraska made one, 0-1 (lost to UW)
  • Ohio State made one, 0-1 (lost to MSU)
In the eight years since:
  • Ohio State made five, 5-0 (beat UW 3x, beat NU 2x)
  • Wisconsin made four, 0-4 (lost to tOSU 3x, lost to PSU)
  • Iowa made two, 0-2 (lost to MSU, lost to M)
  • Northwestern made two, 0-2 (lost to tOSU 2x)
  • Michigan State made one, 1-0 (beat IA)
  • Penn State made one, 1-0 (beat UW)
  • Michigan made one, 1-0 (beat IA)

« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 10:39:31 AM by medinabuckeye1 »

 

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