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Topic: Misfits Thread

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rolltidefan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2744 on: June 05, 2020, 04:53:07 PM »
Watch it buster or we'll have to shut this thread down
that's what i was thinking. talk about a divisive topic...

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2745 on: June 05, 2020, 05:19:57 PM »
I am glad that we can have this conversation 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2746 on: June 05, 2020, 05:29:52 PM »
In theory I'm getting a beef rib for lunch tomorrow. Though a work obligation might force me to send a friend to pick it up.

Let us pray that doesn't happen.
:D we'll navigate Covid but supplication will be needed there
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2747 on: June 05, 2020, 05:33:12 PM »
The same experience. Loved 60 minutes in the 70s into the 80s and then I found out about how they rigged and edited
They use to blow the whistle on Corporate now they work for them :sign0065:
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2748 on: June 05, 2020, 05:33:57 PM »
:D we'll navigate Covid but supplication will be needed there


MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2749 on: June 05, 2020, 07:31:37 PM »
Well Played - gotta admit that looks......on a Friday Night
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2750 on: June 05, 2020, 07:42:36 PM »
Well Played - gotta admit that looks......on a Friday Night
Are you into sours? Because that one is a sour...

Their sours are world-class, but I know tons of beer drinkers that won't touch a sour with a 10 foot straw.

FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2751 on: June 05, 2020, 07:57:30 PM »
FYI I was thinking more about it... And when someone was asked for a concrete policy change to help improve this situation...

It's simple--fix the qualified immunity problem.

Today it's possible to sue the police department in civil court for excessive force / brutality / wrongful death. But due to qualified immunity--and in particular the way qualified immunity is adjudicated--it is NEARLY impossible to sue the individual offending officer in civil court and have any chance of success.

So while cities may occasionally feel the pain in their pocketbooks due to losing a lawsuit (and it's just taxpayer dollars anyway), the individual officers are mostly shielded from civil liability.

End that shield.

Here's how I see it playing out:


  • If you end that shield, and individual officers are subject to civil liability, it will only take a few examples of officers losing their financial worlds before an insurance system--similar to medical malpractice insurance--pops up to shield them.
  • The police malpractice insurance industry, obviously, will need to have ways to accurately risk-price individual officers. Much like getting auto insurance, your risk is mainly tied to your own actions, and there are clear red flags that suggest you're a higher risk (in auto insurance, regularly getting speeding tickets or causing accidents, for one).
  • Those red flags might be things like citizen complaints against cops, IA investigations, etc. Some cops [maybe one Derek Chauvin] may find themselves eventually priced out of policing due to their risk profile being so bad that they can't afford the insurance. Want to weed out the bad apples? They'll price themselves out.
  • Officers could possibly qualify for premium reductions by doing things like regularly taking alternative escalation training, community sensitivity courses, etc. You can find ways to reinforce positive behavior and make it in officers' financial interests to do so.


This uses market forces to incentivize the behavior to end. I've solved it for you.

You're welcome.
FYI I was thinking more about it... And when someone was asked for a concrete policy change to help improve this situation...

It's simple--fix the qualified immunity problem.

Today it's possible to sue the police department in civil court for excessive force / brutality / wrongful death. But due to qualified immunity--and in particular the way qualified immunity is adjudicated--it is NEARLY impossible to sue the individual offending officer in civil court and have any chance of success.

So while cities may occasionally feel the pain in their pocketbooks due to losing a lawsuit (and it's just taxpayer dollars anyway), the individual officers are mostly shielded from civil liability.

End that shield.

Here's how I see it playing out:


  • If you end that shield, and individual officers are subject to civil liability, it will only take a few examples of officers losing their financial worlds before an insurance system--similar to medical malpractice insurance--pops up to shield them.
  • The police malpractice insurance industry, obviously, will need to have ways to accurately risk-price individual officers. Much like getting auto insurance, your risk is mainly tied to your own actions, and there are clear red flags that suggest you're a higher risk (in auto insurance, regularly getting speeding tickets or causing accidents, for one).
  • Those red flags might be things like citizen complaints against cops, IA investigations, etc. Some cops [maybe one Derek Chauvin] may find themselves eventually priced out of policing due to their risk profile being so bad that they can't afford the insurance. Want to weed out the bad apples? They'll price themselves out.
  • Officers could possibly qualify for premium reductions by doing things like regularly taking alternative escalation training, community sensitivity courses, etc. You can find ways to reinforce positive behavior and make it in officers' financial interests to do so.


This uses market forces to incentivize the behavior to end. I've solved it for you.

You're welcome.
I would guess the insurance company would require body cameras such as insurance company for trucking companies encourage dash cams
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Benthere2

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2752 on: June 05, 2020, 10:36:36 PM »
anyone hearing anything out of Iowa about racial tension in the the City and Players?  Former players I guess are lighting up twitter ( I dont have an twitter account to verify)

utee94

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2753 on: June 05, 2020, 11:13:16 PM »
Are you into sours? Because that one is a sour...

Their sours are world-class, but I know tons of beer drinkers that won't touch a sour with a 10 foot straw.
I like sours quite a bit, was first introduced to them in Belgium 25 years ago.  But even the Belgians drink them in small quantities, a little goes a long way.  

CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2754 on: June 06, 2020, 12:36:03 AM »
An unfortunate incident in Buffalo from The Bulwark.

1. The Three Levels of Police Corruption

It's Friday so we're supposed to talk about happy things.

Sorry in advance.

I'd like you to watch this video. It's from an incident in Buffalo yesterday and it's very short.


Quote
WBFO
@WBFO

Jun 4

Just about an hour ago, police officers shove man in Niagara Square to the ground.

(VIDEO CLIP)

Video from: @MikeDesmondWBFO

Now take a breath look at this press statement from the Buffalo Police Department about the incident:

"[A] 5th person was arrested during a skirmish with other protestors and also charged with disorderly conduct. During that skirmish involving protestors, one person was injured when he tripped & fell."

What we have here is a perfect distillation of the three levels of corruption that exist in law enforcement.

The first is the violence of the police themselves. In this incident they are in total control of the situation. I can count 28 law enforcement officers, all of them wearing armor of some sort and carrying weapons.

They are approached by an unarmed 75-year-old man. It is unreasonable for any of the officers in this situation to have felt as though they were in clear and present danger. But if they had felt threatened, they could have restrained him.

Instead, they assault him, shoving him backward violently. Go back and watch the video again. Listen to the sound the man's head makes at the 0:06 mark when it hits the ground. Look at the blood coming out of his ear. Watch how motionless his body is.

At best, this is a terrible accident by law enforcement officers who are not competent at their jobs. At worst, it is criminal assault.

The second level of corruption comes in the reaction of the officers who did not shove the old man. None of them rush to his side. None of them confront the perpetrators of the assault.

Instead, the first two actions we see from the other police are these:

(a) One of the officers who pushed the man seems surprised that he fell and makes a move to check on him. The officer behind him directs him to keep moving and leave the man alone.

(b) Other officers immediately move to clear witnesses out of the area. There appear to be two civilian witnesses who try to tell the police that the man on the ground is bleeding. One of the other officers says, "Grab these two guys right now."

These two witnesses put their hands in the air and offer no resistance. We see one of them handcuffed.

Another officer goes after the credentialed media present and orders them to leave the scene.

What you're seeing here is, in the immediate aftermath of police misconduct, a large number of officers working in a coordinated manner to cover it up and witnesses to the misconduct being detained for no discernible reason.

Which brings us to the third level of corruption: The press release.

With the benefit of time to react, the Buffalo police department portrayed this assault as a mere accident resulting from a "skirmish" in which a civilian "tripped & fell."

This is a two-part outright lie being fed to the public the police department is supposed to serve.

2. Insidious

This may sound strange, but I view the actual assault on the old man as the least worrisome of those three corruptions.

Police are human. They will make bad decisions sometimes even if they are good cops. You can understand how a bad decision gets made in snap-encounters.

Do I think these police should be prosecuted? Yes.

Do I think that, regardless of the outcome of criminal prosecution, they should ever be allowed to put on the uniform again? Absolutely not.

However, I am open to the possibility that these are good men who made a terrible mistake and simply lack the faculties and temperament to be professional law enforcement officers.

But what about the police around them who see what has happened and do nothing?

These officers are witness to an assault that they were not a part of. They have no "heat of the moment" excuse. And their first move is not to help the citizen they have sworn an oath to protect, but to cover up for colleagues who have just committed what may be a criminal offense.

It is hard to view these officers as anything but fully corrupt. Every one of them should lose their badge.

The deepest corruption, though, is the press release.

Because this is not the act of a single person operating under constraints of time and space. It's the product of an organization.

That means multiple sets of eyes and multiple lies. It means people had the luxury of time to deliberate before acting and their choice was to deceive the public.

When you find a bad cop, it means that he can't be trusted.

When you see a gaggle of cops covering for a bad cop, it means the culture is corrupt.

When you read a press release issued by the department claiming that a man who was assaulted by cops "tripped & fell" as a result of a "skirmish," it tells you that the entire institution is rotten.

Thank God the local NPR station caught this assault on tape. Had they not, then the police department's lie would have been the official truth.
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MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2755 on: June 06, 2020, 01:28:20 AM »
Are you into sours? Because that one is a sour...

Their sours are world-class, but I know tons of beer drinkers that won't touch a sour with a 10 foot straw.
Not sure is that sort of Like a Gose?That was different like spoiled then salted
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2756 on: June 06, 2020, 01:37:14 AM »
Are you into sours? Because that one is a sour...

Their sours are world-class, but I know tons of beer drinkers that won't touch a sour with a 10 foot straw.
Who's drinking beer with a straw? :86:
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2757 on: June 06, 2020, 01:44:18 AM »
We need to develop trust. Without that, there will be nothing. And trust works both ways.
Trust does work both ways, but we have unequal parties here.
One group is the masses.  You can be more specific than that, but whatever the subset, it's still millions of people.  Random-ass people of all types, even within tiny subgroups.

The other group chose a profession to protect and serve.  They get paid to do so.  They sort of forfeit their anonymity and low expectations by choosing their career.  

And this designation of each group has more to do with the low expectations I have of "the masses" than of being especially rough on police.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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