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Topic: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness

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847badgerfan

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Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #336 on: February 14, 2019, 09:33:19 AM »
Based on what I've noticed, a successful athletic (in particular football) program has to start with the school's overall leadership. 



For example, UW had Donna Shalala and she hired Pat Richter to lead the AD office. He then hired Alvarez. Her successors were also highly supportive, and still are. Another example is that Stanford's rise happened under John Hennessy, who was also very supportive of football. He hired Bob Bowlsby, who hired Harbaugh and then Shaw (Bowlsby also hired Kaptain Kirk while at Iowa). 



This support is a huge part of the deal.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #337 on: February 14, 2019, 09:55:21 AM »
So, what sparks leadership having an interest in athletics?  It just happens?  Big Donors push for it?

Programs like UNC just seem to hire and fire with no discernible plan.  The team might win 9-10 games one year and then fall into mediocrity or worse and then the fire and hire again.  Maybe they need to fire and hire at a higher level.  Maybe it needs Big Donors, who may be lacking at Illinois.

Those two programs SHOULD be able to field decent teams consistently, one would think.  They are flagship universities in larger states.  UNC does have to compete with other in state programs like NCSU to a greater degree.


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #338 on: February 14, 2019, 11:30:42 AM »
Based on what I've noticed, a successful athletic (in particular football) program has to start with the school's overall leadership.

For example, UW had Donna Shalala and she hired Pat Richter to lead the AD office. He then hired Alvarez. Her successors were also highly supportive, and still are. Another example is that Stanford's rise happened under John Hennessy, who was also very supportive of football. He hired Bob Bowlsby, who hired Harbaugh and then Shaw (Bowlsby also hired Kaptain Kirk while at Iowa).

This support is a huge part of the deal.
So, what sparks leadership having an interest in athletics?  It just happens?  Big Donors push for it?

Programs like UNC just seem to hire and fire with no discernible plan.  The team might win 9-10 games one year and then fall into mediocrity or worse and then the fire and hire again.  Maybe they need to fire and hire at a higher level.  Maybe it needs Big Donors, who may be lacking at Illinois.

Those two programs SHOULD be able to field decent teams consistently, one would think.  They are flagship universities in larger states.  UNC does have to compete with other in state programs like NCSU to a greater degree.

I think the Purdue experience is somewhat instructive here. Purdue had a gigantic missed opportunity with Tiller. He revitalized the program. He made us relevant again. And the Athletic Department all the way up to the school president took it for granted, talking about how they didn't want to participate in the "arm's race" of college athletics. Morgan Burke liked taking the cheap way out, and the folks in power above him enjoyed that too, because I believe they thought that successful athletics was a distraction to the university, not a cause for celebration. 

Purdue was one of those schools where not only did we NOT fund any portion of our athletic budgets out of tuitions or student fees, but we actively required the athletic department pay the university a stipend each year for the honor of being associated with the "Purdue" name. I believe that we have ended the payment from the athletic department, but I believe we still operate entirely as a self-funded entity and don't take any money from tuition or student fees.

What happened? Tiller got fed up with the administration that wouldn't support him. Our facilities were at the bottom of the Big Ten. We didn't reinvest or even attempt to make it better. We went the bargain-basement hire for Danny Hope, we then pivoted and paid minimally competitive salary for Darrell Hazell, and all the while basically tried to short-change the football program in any way possible--which I'm sure was seen and recognized on the recruiting trail. 

As much as I think Hazell was a bad coach, I simultaneously recognize that he was largely put into a no-win situation, given that the university didn't support the program.

That's all changed. Morgan Burke was replaced by Mike Bobinski. Mitch Daniels is our university president, and as a politician he understands the value of perception and recognizes that athletic success excites and energizes the students and fans, and helps to keep the "Purdue" name relevant. 

So we got Brohm, and we've kept him not only due to giving him a highly competitive salary, I believe that he stuck around instead of going to Louisville because he believes deep down that the athletic department has his back, and will give him what he needs to be successful. Maybe that's never CFP, because we're still "just Purdue", but give him what he needs to make trips to the B1GCCG in December more than just a pipe dream. 

You have to have an AD, a President, a Board of Trustees, all on board with athletic success. Because it's a competitive race on the recruiting trail, and kids aren't going to go to a school where they believe their coaches are led by people who penny-wise and pound-foolish. 

bayareabadger

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Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #339 on: February 14, 2019, 11:42:41 AM »
Wisconsin's recruiting numbers would be expected to rise fairly dramatically in the next few years at least.

It's a case for how to build up a program somewhat mired in obscurity from back in the day.

It takes time.
Probably not.
The states it’s in doesn’t project to get more talented. The states around it don’t either. Maybe it makes the jump to pulling four stars from Jersey/Florida like OSU or Michigan, but most likely, it’ll be what it is.
The great secret of CFB is it’s mostly static, with a few weird shifts here and there. UW pulled one of those. It’s unlikely to jump to being a national recruiter without another. Such is life. 

847badgerfan

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Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #340 on: February 14, 2019, 11:46:07 AM »
Actually, the talent in Wisconsin really is getting better. You can tell because of the schools you see sniffing around up there.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #341 on: February 14, 2019, 11:56:27 AM »
I bet we see more out of state recruits going to Wisconsin, and some out of region as well.


Cincydawg

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Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #342 on: February 14, 2019, 11:59:22 AM »
Two dudes are here today installing the kitchen cabinets, first time I have seen them outside the show room.  They look nice and slide/open well, which is good.

Probably take tomorrow to finish up, and then we'll just need countertops and back splash and hookups.




847badgerfan

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Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #343 on: February 14, 2019, 01:24:05 PM »
I bet we see more out of state recruits going to Wisconsin, and some out of region as well.


Last cycle (2019) had 19 kids. 3 are from Wisconsin.

This new cycle has 6 commits, and 5 are from Wisconsin. There are a couple more out there who may come in, but for the most part, UW has relied on the East Coast and Florida for a very long time, and that will continue. I also suspect the STARZ will rise a little too, like they did for 2019 and so far for 2020.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #344 on: February 14, 2019, 01:30:49 PM »
UGA has a large recruiting advantage over most programs that is inherent.  There is no other Big Time program in the state (though there are just over the line of course).  HS football is turning out a slew of athletes.  Quite a few are disposed to staying local.  They don't "need" to go out of state very often.

They really should be doing better on the field, and I've thought that for a long time now.  I guess "almost" is somewhat better.


847badgerfan

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Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #345 on: February 14, 2019, 01:42:19 PM »
Heh. No other major program. I like it.



Is most of the talent centered around Atlanta?
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #346 on: February 14, 2019, 01:53:00 PM »
The metro area has over 6 million people and the entire state has 10 million, so yes.

And many of the rural programs are not well funded etc.  Valdosta is a hot spot down south.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #347 on: February 14, 2019, 09:40:21 PM »
Places like Champagn and Chapel Hill have an obvious first step:  keep your in-state kids.  I know Florida has had a pipeline into Charlotte the last 15 years or so, signing a handful of top-end guys from there.  I assume other top southern schools have had their share as well.  
It's more unfair for Illinois to lock down their state, because if you're a Chicago-area kid, I assume you're either a ND/UM/OSU talent or not.  And if you're not, there's UW, MSU, Iowa in that next tier.  



If you're a sleeping giant, don't you eventually have to wake up?  It took Florida 60 years to wake up, but when we did, we proved Bear Bryant right.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #348 on: February 14, 2019, 09:44:46 PM »
Heh. No other major program. I like it.



Is most of the talent centered around Atlanta?
Even more so than the city of Atlanta (inside the loop), the Atlanta suburbs are FERTILE.  Marietta, Conyers/Lithonia, Alpharetta, Norcross.....legit dudes every year.
And yes, if you're getting a kid from the rest of the state, he's going to be a hayseed.  A man-child, but still a hayseed.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #349 on: February 15, 2019, 07:59:21 AM »
The metro area population is mostly outside the loop (I-285).  Atlanta city proper has a population under 500,000.  I'd guess inside the loop adds another half million, mostly Dekalb County.  So, 5/6ths of Atlanta metro pop is outside the loop.  Those suburban schools take HS football seriously in the main.

UGA should have been better than they were given that talent situation, but of course programs like Auburn/Clemson/FSU and others prey in GA football recruits effectively.

UGA is kind of the reverse of Wisconsin, always higher in recruiting rankings than in final rankings.  They currently have more 5 star players on the roster than any program in the country.  Anyway, I'd judge THIS year's edition their most talented team ever, returning OL intact mostly, QB with two years experience, some very high level running backs, and solid defense and special teams.  Of course, it comes down to 2 or 3 close games that could go either way.

They play Notre Dame and A&M at home this year and Auburn on the road, Florida as usual.  They "should" demolish everyone else.

 

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