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Topic: 2018 Season Stream of Completely Off-Topic Unconsciousness

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ELA

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Re: 2018 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1148 on: August 24, 2018, 03:51:33 PM »
Well, yes and no. To maximize the talent, you have to develop it. Very few of these 2* players are coming in ready to dominate the B1G. It requires improving their skills, improving their understanding of their role in a scheme, and improving their bodies.
Only issue is that once you've done that, they're *still* at a severe talent differential compared to the players that stick in the NFL or NBA. If you take those players, with their talent, and give them the same skills & understanding level of the Dantonio/Beilein lesser talent players, they're still going to have an edge.
There are ~60 P5 teams, with 85 scholarship players each. Given 1/4 turnover each year, that's 1275 players available each year, not counting G5 or FCS.
Only 224 players each year are drafted, and often those in the later rounds don't even stick as they're headed to a league of 32 teams with only 53 man rosters.
Similar issue with basketball, but probably worse due to players from overseas, and that there's more competition with Big East and other mid-major leagues that don't have as much talent dropoff as the difference between P5 and G5 in football.
Dantonio or Beilein [or Painter, who I think is in the same "do more with less" category] should be lauded for winning with what they have. But you shouldn't knock them for not having players who do more at the next level.
Talent still dominates, when you get into the rarefied air of the next level.
I'm not talking about overall draft numbers.  But seemingly both MSU football and UM basketball have a higher than normal bust rate simply based on where they were drafted, among those 2* and 3* recruits.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2018 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1149 on: August 24, 2018, 04:16:04 PM »
We went to a Vietnamese restaurant for lunch and I had some kind of fake soup.

I don't know what the original would be like, but this one was pretty good.


MikeDeTiger

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Re: 2018 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1150 on: August 24, 2018, 08:18:07 PM »
The only SEC atmosphere I noticed in Nashville for our board meeting there were the many SEC guys/gals actually at the board meeting.
That and this one screaming banshee Bama chick in the bar we hung out in. I think @MikeDeTiger was ready to kill her, had we not all been looking at him.
Tell the truth....you ALL wanted to kill her.  Everybody in that joint did.  
That lady probably has kids.  Just let that sink in.  
If her husband hasn't murdered her by now, for auditory crimes against humanity.  

MarqHusker

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Re: 2018 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1151 on: August 24, 2018, 08:58:54 PM »
We went to a Vietnamese restaurant for lunch and I had some kind of fake soup.

I don't know what the original would be like, but this one was pretty good.


Pho?

ELA

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Re: 2018 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1152 on: August 24, 2018, 10:13:36 PM »
Between one of the best programs in PA losing 42-0 to IMG and the third top MI basketball recruit transferring to the same Ohio prep school I think the time to split public and private high schools in competition is past.

bayareabadger

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Re: 2018 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1153 on: August 25, 2018, 01:07:26 AM »
Between one of the best programs in PA losing 42-0 to IMG and the third top MI basketball recruit transferring to the same Ohio prep school I think the time to split public and private high schools in competition is past.
Who transferred where?

Anonymous Coward

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Re: 2018 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1154 on: August 25, 2018, 05:38:26 AM »
Aren't publics and privates typically separated on the football field anyway? Not by rule but just by scheduling tradition?
Doing it by rule may be more complicated than expected, though. IMG (and perhaps this basketball prep school in Ohio) is a very unusual place. It seems unfair to just design a rule to surgically impact those places. And if the rule were to more globally split publics and privates, the outcome could be even worse. I have experience with the metro Detroit catholic leagues. Most of those teams, including ours, were terrrrrrrrrrrrrible. Unsurprising given how few of them have graduating class sizes larger than 250 (ours was 46).
Maybe I'm misunderstanding ELA's wish, but if there were an all-star prep school in the area, I'm not sure it benefits anyone for that school to be disallowed to play larger publics and forced to play more D class rinky dink private high schools. And I don't think there are enough top schools to fill out a full schedule without crossover.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2018 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1155 on: August 25, 2018, 06:27:29 AM »
In Cincy, the publics and privates are in difference conferences, but they play each other in the state playoffs.


ELA

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Re: 2018 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1156 on: August 25, 2018, 07:15:35 AM »
The prep school thing is becoming a larger problem in basketball for sure, but I posted the article earlier about Biff Poggis program basically taking all the best kids from Baltimore and running roughshod over the state.

I'm not sure what the answer is, because you are right there are lots of small, lousy private schools.  But there are a handful of elite (athletically) private schools that might as well be college teams.

That La Lumiere school in Indiana brought in so many transfers the other year that they ran out a starting lineup of 5 kids from 5 different states, each of whom had been the highest rated recruit in their state the year prior.  It was like Jaren Jackson from IN, Brian Bowen from MI, Jordan Poole from WI, Tyger Campbell from TN, and I forget the 5th.

Pennsylvania put in a rule this year to address it.  Basically if you take on a certain number of transfers you enter a program where you accumulate points based on on field/court performance.  If you reach a certain threshold of points, they move you up a class.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 07:25:48 AM by ELA »

Cincydawg

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Re: 2018 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1157 on: August 25, 2018, 07:58:37 AM »
Decades ago, Valdosta, a public HS, had a major football program.  They would scout junior high kids all over south Georgia.  If they liked one, his father would get a lucrative offer in his line of work in Valdosta.  And move.

We lived in Augusta and I can recall Richmond Academy, the major power there, going 9-0 often as not and looking great and then losing 63-0 to Valdosta year after year.  I think they still have the most HS football wins in the country all time.

It was a neat scheme.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2018 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1158 on: August 25, 2018, 08:00:59 AM »
I finally caught the film Friday Night Lights on NF the other night.  I enjoyed it, but I liked the series better I think.

I got a bit addicted to the series soap opera about football.  I had not realized they used some of the same actors.

Grady HS is near me and has a large stadium and I am musing taking in a game or three for no reason.

I wonder if they are any good.  My old HS is usually state power now but they got hammered in game one.  Their game tonight is on ESPN something apparently.  HS football on cable ESPN.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2018 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1159 on: August 25, 2018, 08:03:11 AM »
This season’s football showdown between Grayson and Tucker will be part of the GEICO ESPN High School Football Kickoff.
It will be the third of four ESPN broadcasts Saturday, Aug. 25 with a 6 p.m. kickoff at Grayson. The game’s broadcast will be on ESPNU.
ESPN’s other high school broadcasts that day include Pinson Valley (Ala.) at Hoover (Ala.) at noon, followed by Cedar Grove vs. Hewitt-Trussville (Ala.) from Hoover at 3:30 p.m. Both of those games are on ESPN.

ELA

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Re: 2018 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1160 on: August 25, 2018, 09:17:38 AM »
I finally caught the film Friday Night Lights on NF the other night.  I enjoyed it, but I liked the series better I think.

I got a bit addicted to the series soap opera about football.  I had not realized they used some of the same actors.

Grady HS is near me and has a large stadium and I am musing taking in a game or three for no reason.

I wonder if they are any good.  My old HS is usually state power now but they got hammered in game one.  Their game tonight is on ESPN something apparently.  HS football on cable ESPN.
The series might be my all time favorite television series.  Much better than the movie IMO.
And the story above reminded me of something Buddy would do.  IIRC there was a plot line involving a vacant lot with a mailbox that they used as an address to get kids into the district, that Coach Taylor used against them when he came back to the crosstown rival.

bayareabadger

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Re: 2018 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1161 on: August 25, 2018, 10:55:26 AM »
The prep school thing is becoming a larger problem in basketball for sure, but I posted the article earlier about Biff Poggis program basically taking all the best kids from Baltimore and running roughshod over the state.

I'm not sure what the answer is, because you are right there are lots of small, lousy private schools.  But there are a handful of elite (athletically) private schools that might as well be college teams.

That La Lumiere school in Indiana brought in so many transfers the other year that they ran out a starting lineup of 5 kids from 5 different states, each of whom had been the highest rated recruit in their state the year prior.  It was like Jaren Jackson from IN, Brian Bowen from MI, Jordan Poole from WI, Tyger Campbell from TN, and I forget the 5th.

Pennsylvania put in a rule this year to address it.  Basically if you take on a certain number of transfers you enter a program where you accumulate points based on on field/court performance.  If you reach a certain threshold of points, they move you up a class.
I love discussing this because it's a fascination question of one size fits all-ism.
So you mention La Lumiere. They're in a totally different world than say Cathedral, a Indianapolis power a few hours away that routinely recruits monster teams. La Lumiere doesn't even compete in a sanctioned league. They just play other weird private schools and national events. So they're not denying a public school anything. Cathedral plays monster schedules, and then rips off ridiculous playoff runs against worse competition (they won three consecutive state titles with five-loss teams), or did til their bump-up rule caught up with them.

There's also the fascinating state dynamics. In Indiana, private school football dominance is a real issue. In Georgia it was so bad on the small school level, they had a split, but the bigger ones haven't been a thing. One state over, South Carolina has a private school league because all but 3-4 teams couldn't come close to competing with public schools. In California, private schools dominate the top rungs of the sport, there's plenty of awesome public schools competing. It looks like IMG likewise doesn't play for anything other than just the games it plays, so if someone wants to face them, I guess have at. 

I've often thought about what a split would mean, and I guess I come to the conclusion a lot of the country don't have the density of those powerhouses to be feasible. Like in California, De La Salle for a long time just crushed everyone. And if it only played private schools in its section, it would be double the size of the next closest school and just be murdering even smaller schools. I don't know if that outcome if better (ironically, a section over, there is a parochial league, though it's still in the same playoff). I like different places trying out different approaches to it. 

(That's to say nothing of non-football/basketball dominance. A friend told me about the biggest private school in South Carolina, which has like a million state titles. I think three are in big sports. But with folks with money, you can do damage in country club sports/sports with a big club element, plus you have the support for a hyper organized track team)

 

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