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Topic: the tale of three programs

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Drew4UTk

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the tale of three programs
« on: October 29, 2017, 01:46:13 PM »
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“It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of Run/Pass/Option purpose built offense, it was the age of confused routes and backs running apprehensively, it was the epoch of confidence, it was the epoch of disarray, it was a season of dominating defense, it was the season of excruciating penalties, it was the autumn of dominance, it was a autumn of loss, they have everything before them, they have everything behind them…”
Georgia has arguably the best starting Defense in the nation.  Tennessee is the epitome of porous.  Florida has a defensive line and a supporting cast that appear alien in comparison.

Georgia has, hands down, the best backfield in the game right now.  Tennessee has a great back that only scored some ganja in the last four games, and got penalized for it.  Florida has a bunch of suspensions with felonies hanging over their heads.

Georgia has a second year coach the team believes in and has assimilated fully into his vision.  Tennessee has a really ‘good guy’ in that position that can’t control his team nor draft a play on paper or in execution to save his life (or his job, at least).  Florida has a fisherman who is trying his level best to hold together not only his team but their entire fan base, and seems to be losing control.

Shall this continue?  Likely, no.  Y’all get the point.

This is a tale of superior Athletic directors in stark comparison to those better suited for managing a small chain of convenience stores.  Foley is a legend.  His decisions and process while directing the University of Florida ought to be taught to aspiring sports managers in classes across the land.  McGarity at Georgia no doubt learned from him while tenured under him.  The new guy on the daisy covered hill needs a crash course, and it can only be hoped that he took no lead from Hart or Hamilton.  This aspect of a program is crucial, and likely at least as important as the head ball coach.  Foley’s successor, though, well… As explained by Ulysses Everett McGill, “we’re in a tight spot, boys“.

These three teams have always been relevant in the SEC.  They’ve always been nationally relevant.  The match between UF and UT following re-alignment determined whether UGA had a shot at the SEC East Championship every single season, and was a perpetual circumstance where they rarely if ever controlled their own destiny.  Little did we know a damn fine DB who’s fame was suppressed by his own teammate Champ Bailey would return- after studying under arguably the best coach ever in Saban, to his roots and take them to a path divergent to the prior described tradition.  I disagreed with Richt being set sailing south, but… Both have gained from this decision by the mentor of Foley, McGarity.

Are we seeing a pattern?  Mentors.  I think the circumstance rates an inspection.

Foley, arguably the best AD ever to direct efforts at a major college, led with McGarity as his assistant for a sizable portion of his tenure.  Smart, a great DB for Georgia opposite maybe one of their greatest in Champ Bailey, turns coach in 99 and bounces around to ultimately land with Nick Saban- just to return to UGA as a first time HC, and takes it deep into the fourth quarter of the second major rivalry game to shutting both UF and UT out.  Not only did his team ‘win’, they destroyed UT and UF.  Kirby Smart and McGarity may be the cause for UT and UF searching for coaches, in the end- and is certainly something the UGA crowd will lock onto in effort to ridicule rivals.

Where is UT’s lineage?  Where is UF’s?  What was the thought process of either when they hired both AD’s and Coaches?  For some reason, images of coins being dropped in a perverse slot machine appears in my minds eye.  There is a chance, right?  The chances of a great AD and Coach dropping out that machine’s shoot register on a scale, I’m sure- but are nowhere near the odds of the same coming from not only careful study, but from the security of hiring alumnus.

Where does this leave us?

Tee Martin for HC of UT, and Tim Tebow for HC of UF-  Phil Fulmer as AD of UT, and Steve Spurrier as AD of UF.  I just had to type that.  It’s a funny thought, but not so far fetched on one side as the other.

When it’s all said and done, though, peeling off the bandaides and looking at the injuries of UT and UF will likely render a prognosis that they should follow the path presented by UGA if their intent is to contend, and not just make bank.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 01:56:42 PM by Drew4UTk »

MikeDeTiger

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Re: the tale of three programs
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2017, 06:26:00 PM »
In what respect are you giving Foley so much credit?  As a PR leader and spokesman for the university, yes, he was a flat out jedi-ninja and he routinely owned our guy in every such phase imaginable over the years.  As a GM?  In football, Foley hired Zook, Urban, Muschamp, and McElwain.  One of those things is not like the other.  


Drew4UTk

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Re: the tale of three programs
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2017, 06:30:06 PM »
He knew when and where to cut his losses. 

MikeDeTiger

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Re: the tale of three programs
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2017, 06:37:04 PM »
I mean, I guess, but that seems like a pretty low bar to clear.  

Drew4UTk

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Re: the tale of three programs
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2017, 07:02:34 PM »
there is actually, by my reckoning, a little bit more skill involved than meets the eye.  

you gotta figure, the contract has to be structured in a way that makes the cut less painful to the program but good enough a high caliber coach would still accept.  you also have to figure that most coaches fired from prominent positions such as these rarely resurface at schools near the caliber- ever.  their careers are pretty much shot afterward, except as assistants or coordinators.  the schools hire these coaches based on either a tremendous record or a tremendous upside they believe to exist but isn't proven- all of which fold into the bidding and the contract.  

Foley had a way with spotting the right man for the job, and an equally important talent of knowing when to cut them- not only in football, but all the sports in gainsville.  to add to this, he was sharp enough to fence off the boosters and/or leverage them to get what he needed.  

Missachamp was and is a nuisance to the game so far as i'm concerned.  by my reckoning he played THE prominent role at the demise of Texas- laying threats about the OC leaving his D on the field too long and costing him bonuses- leading to Brown firing the OC, and then messychump leaving anyway... his upside is he is a helluva defensive mind and coach... his downside is he's a vector for drama... I have no idea what happened with zook- it seemed a bad idea all around- but it didn't last long enough to cause major damage... and that's the crux of it- Foley lassoed and then structured these 'chance' hires in such a way they couldn't hurt the program but so much... even Meyer was a chance hire and structured similarly.  Had not Saban sent him home with a rupture, he'd still have a massive contract with UF i've little doubt. 

then..... UT.... the man-child Lame Kitten and his daddy.  then- Derrick friggin' Dooley- who had zero business ever being offered- the AD's Hamilton and Hart did more damage to UT than any coach.  By the time Dooley washed, the coffers were dry and the boosters were rabid- i personally believe the only coach who would come to UT was one of these 'diamonds in the rough' types (read: only one UT could afford) and even then their agents warned against them entertaining offers from the likes of Hart.  So.. because of the climate fostered by the AD's, there was (and still may be) little opportunity to bring in the real fix.  

Foley could have had his choice of available coach because of the way he's managed the program. Hart or Hamilton, not so much.  McGarity, son of Georgia and student of Foley, has likely hired his last head football coach... The contrasts between these schools athletic departments can't be greater.  

EastAthens

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Re: the tale of three programs
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2017, 10:42:06 PM »
Kiffin to the Gators is an absolutely terrifying thought to me. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: the tale of three programs
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2017, 01:34:08 AM »
In what respect are you giving Foley so much credit?  As a PR leader and spokesman for the university, yes, he was a flat out jedi-ninja and he routinely owned our guy in every such phase imaginable over the years.  As a GM?  In football, Foley hired Zook, Urban, Muschamp, and McElwain.  One of those things is not like the other.  


Maybe in that Florida winning the SEC All-Sports trophy was a forgone conclusion each and every year.  National championships in basically every sport in the last 10 years - football, basketball, tennis, swimming, soccer, track, volleyball.  Baseball won one with a manager he hired.....as a GM over an entire sports program, he was the best.  Hands down.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Drew4UTk

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Re: the tale of three programs
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2017, 09:04:46 AM »
Kiffin to the Gators is an absolutely terrifying thought to me.
ol' Lame Kitten has matured since his USCw day's, and... i may be fair to say he is a minion of Saban to a degree at this point.  Left with a good DC (shannon?) and the resources at UF, it is indeed frightening thought for foes. 

Nashville4UGA

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Re: the tale of three programs
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2017, 09:40:28 AM »
Let's not give McGarity too much credit here. He was told when to fire Richt and who to hire in his place by the liquor barrons in GA. 

UGA's other sports teams are in shambles for the most part. He is not popular with UGA fans....at.....all.  

Drew4UTk

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Re: the tale of three programs
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2017, 11:17:21 AM »
@Nashville4UGA , i was dumbfounded when he cut Richt.  

I get it, don't get me wrong- richt's issue by my reckoning is he was perpetually almost good enough... a ball bounce this way, an injury not happen, and he goes to rep the east at least 3 out of 5- but.... having built a formula 'almost' good enough kinda causes pause when it comes time to 'trash' that formula and start again... his being 'almost' wasn't going to change in the SECe.  Having a 'bad' formula is a LOT easier to identify and repair.  He didn't have that, but instead something that showed promise season in and season out- except for a ball bouncing funny, or an injury.... 

turns out McGarity was right- not only for Richt, who bounced back admirably, but also for UGA- whom you can imagine I don't like too much being a Tennessee fan, but (now) just like Bama- in order to retain my 'man card of objective integrity', has to be acknowledged as 'one helluva great job' done by Smart, and something to be jealous about.  

i should have emphasized my comment in response to @MikeDeTiger 's comment paraphrased "why?" when I said "Foley knew how to fence off boosters and then turn around and use them to his advantage when needed".  McGarity, according to what you've said (and which i have no reason to doubt due to your proximity being far greater than mine) ought to try that, no? 

Nashville4UGA

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Re: the tale of three programs
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2017, 12:17:58 PM »
All i am saying is that McGartity didn't really try anything, we was told. He was nothing more than a puppet in the case of hiring Kirby. The "powers" that be had to act in order to get "their" guy before he ended up at South Carolina. 

MikeDeTiger

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Re: the tale of three programs
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2017, 01:48:23 PM »
Maybe in that Florida winning the SEC All-Sports trophy was a forgone conclusion each and every year.  National championships in basically every sport in the last 10 years - football, basketball, tennis, swimming, soccer, track, volleyball.  Baseball won one with a manager he hired.....as a GM over an entire sports program, he was the best.  Hands down.
I thought we were talking about football here.  3 of his 4 hires were duds by Florida standards.  

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: the tale of three programs
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2017, 09:56:34 PM »
Okay, but not all duds are the same.  Not to defend these guys, but Zook and McElwain won 2/3 of their conference games, and Muschamp was over .500.  Foley didn't hire any Shulas, Dooleys, or Orgerons.  

And no, as we've seen, 2/3 of your conference games isn't good enough at Florida.  Now, Butch Jones is well under .500, has been there well over 3 years, and still has his job.  I'm not sure what UT is thinking.

Foley's good hire wasn't just good, it was epic.  2 MNCs, three 13-1 seasons out of four.  But even with that success, the job was too much for Meyer.  Makes what Spurrier did all the more amazing - 12 years in the pressure cooker that is Gainesville.  It takes a coach that is harder on himself than the fans could ever be to thrive for the long haul at UF.  A guy like Saban or Spurrier.  I don't know if the OSU gig is any easier, I guess time will tell.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: the tale of three programs
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2017, 09:57:14 PM »
And no, we're not just talking football here.  It's the athletic director, not the football director.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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