~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~

[FearlessF]

I certainly support the original Daisy Duke -  Catherine Bach

[MarqHusker]

you're too young to remember those games

It was brutal.  You can find them on YouTube.   Memphis State (at the time) v OU Elite 8 game (maybe '85) was a crime.   Memphis couldn't hack OU's pace, so basically 4 cornered it the entire 2nd half.   
Oddly enough,  Marquette when they beat UNC for the title in '77,  they were dominating UNC, eventually UNC came way back, but then Dean Smith decided to go into the 4 corner, and Marquette overcame that and then won the FT shooting contest down the stretch for a 9 point win.      The little ###### team in Appleton did that to our High School team in the State Tournament in the late 80s,  it just stinks.   That's not a game of basketball.   You may as well play H-O-R-S-E.

[FearlessF]

it was certainly a different game with no shot clock and no 3-point line

ball was passed to the big guy down on the low block more than once a possession

Wilt Chamberlain loved it.

[MarqHusker]

I guess I don't mind the potential 3:2 advantage too much.  It makes a game exciting if a team is down by one or two but beyond that it only marginally matters.  Ie, if my team is down six it would take six repetitions of the 3:2 advantage to catch up.  Even if the other team only shot 50% it would still take three repetitions of the 3:1 advantage and either way my team needs to hit a bunch of three point shots.  

I get the idea of applying it for a backcourt violation though because, as you said, that would cause a press and defense to actually be played for a few seconds.  What would you do if the leading team had a bunch of timeouts left and used them after advancing the ball over the timeline to then inbound the ball back in the backcourt and use another 10 seconds of backcourt time?  Would you be ok with that?  

I did consider this when thinking about this (several years ago).  I would enforce the 2 + ball only after a missed shot, or made bucket. Once the ball advanced the timeline, you could not game it by calling timeouts and then inbounding in the back court.  (We all watched that Bielema kickoff game vs PSU).   talk about not playing in the spirit of the game.  That's what the 'foul immediately' BS does to me,  it's like a quirk in a video game which is easily exploited.  #
I'm not bothered by the reality that a team that trails by 3, 5, 8, whatever in the closing minutes, has a really hard time of getting back into it.   Too bad.  The game is 40 minutes. To manipulate the game by fouling intentionally in a pure arbitrage play (3:2, 2:2, 2:1, 2:0) ends up soiling the game.    It isn't exciting or enjoyable when a team comes back from 4 down on the heels of a constant fouling strategy, as it takes 15 minutes to play that last minute.   Miserable is what this is.  (the teams we cheer for have been on both sides of this, no doubt).   I guess the last title game that IIRC this was a thing, was KU v Memphis.  It was a brutal end of game experience.  I don't care who won or lost, the final minutes sucked.  Yes, FT are part of the game, but is intentionally fouling guys 80 feet from the rim, part of the game?
# Sidebar: example: Atari 2600 game of Home Run, bean the first two or three batters, and then almost always turn a triple play on the next batter.   It's 3 card monty not baseball.  There are dozens of examples like this.

[bayareabadger]

I honestly don't really care about the length of the end of a game. If I'm confident a team up 6 with 50 seconds to go will win, I'll turn it off. It seems somewhat agreed those uncommon comebacks aren't worth the hassle, so why not just do away with the hassle ourselves? You can come back later and check, or wake up the next day and review. Is there something at the end of the game or after the game we simply can't move onto?

In essence, it seems many of these prescriptions are geared toward convincing a team to give up faster. Above, Marq Husker phrased it this way, "It isn't exciting or enjoyable when a team comes back from 4 down on the heels of a constant fouling strategy, as it takes 15 minutes to play that last minute. Miserable is what this is." with the addendum that by the end of it, he didn't care who won. Would it be better to say, "You're down 4 with 45 seconds left, it's over"? I've had many a game where I just screamed at the TV or court to hold the ball and let me leave, but I don't know that my impatience should ever be codified in how it's played. 

Wouldn't mind if you had a bunch of timeouts expire with like 2 minutes left. Only downside would be the 5-second calls. 

[847badgerfan]

For me it's not so much the game that is being played. I mean, it's annoying and all that but there's more to it.

It's the next game that I want to watch, but can't, or it's delayed by bulljive hoops (slop pool), like during the tourney. It sucks.

[ELA]

For me it's not so much the game that is being played. I mean, it's annoying and all that but there's more to it.

It's the next game that I want to watch, but can't, or it's delayed by bulljive hoops (slop pool), like during the tourney. It sucks.

That's the issue to me.  Same with the number of review in the final minute.  I hate automatic reviews across all sports.  I'm fine with instant replay, but I think in all sports it should be 100% challenge based, with some limit on it or penalty (like a charged timeout) for getting it wrong.

[PSUinNC]

I'd venture to say Penn State was playing Top 20 basketball the last 3 weeks of the year.  What I liked most about this NIT run was wins came against four P5 schools and normally good to very good AAC team.  I'm not to say that all of the sudden this means PSU would have been a Sweet 16 team had they gotten in, but it's obviously an encouraging ending to the season after losing those 3 to end the regular season. 

[ELA]

I'd venture to say Penn State was playing Top 20 basketball the last 3 weeks of the year.  What I liked most about this NIT run was wins came against four P5 schools and normally good to very good AAC team.  I'm not to say that all of the sudden this means PSU would have been a Sweet 16 team had they gotten in, but it's obviously an encouraging ending to the season after losing those 3 to end the regular season.

I certainly pick them to beat MSU on a neutral court right now.

[Kris61]

Of all the ideas regarding end of game situations I could live with a super bonus the most.  3 FT to make 2 starting on the 13th team foul. I don’t love the idea of shortening the shot clock in the final 2 minutes.

[Kris61]

The thought of no shot clock is enough to make me vomit.  I’d rather sit through a 1000 end of game foul fests than one game where a coach holds the ball for extended periods of time.

I’ve seen a couple of high school games ruined by coaches doing this.

[Brutus Buckeye]

Personally, I'd like to see more sports implement a shot clock. Not fewer. 

[medinabuckeye1]

I'd venture to say Penn State was playing Top 20 basketball the last 3 weeks of the year.  What I liked most about this NIT run was wins came against four P5 schools and normally good to very good AAC team.  I'm not to say that all of the sudden this means PSU would have been a Sweet 16 team had they gotten in, but it's obviously an encouraging ending to the season after losing those 3 to end the regular season.

What sucks for PSU (and, to a lesser extent Ohio State) is PSU's close (mostly) early losses:

• By one at home to Wisconsin on Dec 4
• By one at home to Rider on Dec 22
• By four at Indiana on Jan 9
• In OT at home to Minnesota on Jan 15
• By three at Purdue on Feb 18

I'm not sure how many of those PSU would have needed to win to make the big dance but all five certainly would have done it.  How much do the Nits bring back next year?  

[ELA]

What sucks for PSU (and, to a lesser extent Ohio State) is PSU's close (mostly) early losses:

• By one at home to Wisconsin on Dec 4
• By one at home to Rider on Dec 22
• By four at Indiana on Jan 9
• In OT at home to Minnesota on Jan 15
• By three at Purdue on Feb 18

I'm not sure how many of those PSU would have needed to win to make the big dance but all five certainly would have done it.  How much do the Nits bring back next year?  

Well, and the fact that 4 of those 5 losses were bad losses.  Close or not.