header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~

 (Read 123289 times)

PSUinNC

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 242
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #336 on: November 30, 2017, 03:24:50 PM »
Ugh Penn State....really left one get away last night.  Becoming a trend now - poor foul shooting, missing a lot within 3' of the rim (the dinks and dunks), really bad perimeter defense and letting teams shoot well from 3 pt.  This team's lacking leadership (Shep Garner's just never turned into the player I had hoped he would).  

How to beat PSU right now - stop Tony Carr, shoot well from the perimeter.  It's just that simple until PSU figures out how to get more out of Mike Watkins down low and they stop packing the paint so much.  

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #337 on: November 30, 2017, 04:09:01 PM »
I couldn't watch the Ohio State game last night because it was on cable and I'm a cord-cutter who had other things to do.  For anyone who watched it, WTF happened in the second half?  

All I really have is the box score:
  • First Half:  Ohio State by 37-30:  on pace for a 72-60 Ohio State win.  
  • Second Half:  Clemson by 49-28:  on pace for a 98-56 Clemson win.  

It is really not even the entire second half.  Early in the second half Ohio State actually built onto their lead and led by 11.  As late as about four minutes into the second half the Buckeyes were up 10 at 47-37.  The Buckeyes still had a seven point lead at 51-44 almost seven minutes into the second half.  From that point on the Buckeyes were outscored 35-14.  Ouch!

ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20320
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #338 on: November 30, 2017, 05:01:25 PM »
Omer Yurtseven will get drafted based on potential, but he's a very unfinished product, and OSU made him look like the best big in college basketball.  Probably bodes well as a matchup for MSU

PortlandSpartan

  • Recruit
  • **
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 98
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #339 on: November 30, 2017, 09:32:54 PM »
MSU men's basketball looks to have a pretty good team this season. 

jhetfield99

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 331
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #340 on: November 30, 2017, 09:37:00 PM »
My "surprise" team to Dance this year is PSU.  They make it every 5 to 6 years and I thought they were pretty decent last year.

ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20320
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #341 on: November 30, 2017, 11:01:38 PM »
MSU men's basketball looks to have a pretty good team this season.
Has to be the deepest team he's ever had.  It's amazing how some of the liabilities from last year look so much better in their appropriate roles.  Also so pleasantly surprised with Carter and Tillman.  Figured Carter might retire after yet another ACL injury, and Tillman seemed primed for an redshirt year.
This was a big one because the way the Big Ten is looking, the chances for statement wins in conference play looks limited.

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 7851
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #342 on: November 30, 2017, 11:37:59 PM »
Yes, but Bo had a history of developing the players on his roster. Now, perhaps these players are somehow different than other players in previous classes, or perhaps Bo's teaching and development was the difference between other players being disappointing or being solid.

That's my point. Wisconsin has never been the school that brings in multiple high 4* / 5* recruits every year. They rarely have had "instant impact freshmen" that can come in and take over. They've made their living based upon identifying players that will fit their system and developing them over time. Now Bo isn't there to develop them. Perhaps Gard can be as effective as Bo in developing players. Perhaps he can't.

Or it could be that the type of players/system Bo ran is actually different than what Gard is now trying to do, and maybe just the players are a mismatch or haven't bought in as they were Bo's recruits.

SO, I have a lot of thoughts.
To answer your first graph, I think it was fair to say, the current crop of juniors (the really disappointing ones) were quite bad as freshmen. Like they showed less than most UW players who grew into real contributors. Granted, they've also not grown into even reliable 8th-man types, which is irritating. 

To the second graph, I also think Bo's developmental skills were a hint overstated, but more on that later. 

They system is by-and-large the same, but Gard has a longer leash, which manifests itself in interesting ways. 

Here are my thoughts on why this start isn't tearing my up too much.
1. This isn't the worst start UW's had in the past three years. The Bo-to-Gard year was a HOT mess. Lost to Western Illinois and a not-great Georgetown team, and eventually UWM.
2. With that in mind, I'm not too stressed because UW's worst loss is ... ? UCLA? That seems kinda OK. They were tied with seconds to go. Vs. Xavier they were tied at the last TV timeout. Vs. Baylor down 2 with 2:20 left. At Virginia is gonna be a hard one. 
3. Now the team is still pretty incoherent, and that's not ideal, but your top seven players are Happ (very good), a sophomore at top guard, a sophomore who hardly played last year, three freshmen and Khalil Iverson, who makes me want to put my fist through a window, I assume some gelling could happen. There's fight, and that's a start.
4. If UW can't beat OSU and starts taking Ls vs. PSU, Temple and Marquette, Ima get more worried. This team overscheduled for what it was.
5. Part of that is the recruiting imbalance at the end of Bo's tenure. One thing that helped UW was it tended to only lose 2-3 contributors a year from 2006-07 until 2012-13. The first UW Final Four team was veteran despite only having one senior, but at this point, UW has six scholarship juniors, two sophomores and four freshmen (which will likely bump to five when a reshirting walk-on transfer likely gets one). UW has gone several recent years down a scholarship player or two and it'll likely take a few cycles to clean up, especially given the top guy in the next class flipped to Kentucky.

On the other hand, life will be different without Bo, and here are a few reasons.
1. Bo's teams were crazy good at not turning the ball over. He'd bench talented scorers for doing it. He'd leave in docile, risk-averse guys. And it meant his offenses had a certain floor. You get that unless your shooting is just trash, and he got a lot of guards good at the end of the clock.
2. More of Bo's good players were solid to good as freshmen, they just got more minutes and responsibilities. Like you knew freshman Jordan Taylor would be something, and early in his sophomore year, you knew he's REALLY be something. Even Frank Kaminsky, the patron saint of development was a solidly efficent role player early on. 
3. Bo could set a damn rotation. It sometimes befuddled fans, but looking back, he had a great sense of who should be in when. Gard has a looser rein there. Which is sometimes nice, but means more guys got out looking like they don't have a damn clue (this current roster isn't helping)
4. I don't think the top-4 thing continues for much longer, and I think this team loses it unless everything comes together as well as we can hope. But I think Gard's badgers will look much like Bo's. Maybe less sickeningly consistent. Maybe with a little more energy. Who knows. You're guy Painter rediscovered his recruiting mojo, and that looked like a longshot a few years ago, so maybe Greg hits some Bo marks while keeping things going. (I know Hammons getting it was one thing for Purdue, but did the 2014 class seem as solid as it ended up being? 2015 seemed like a tire fire until Biggie landed in it)

MichiFan87

  • Player
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 796
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #343 on: December 01, 2017, 12:39:40 AM »
Not panicking yet for Michigan. Yes the defense was awful against North Carolina, and the offense started great but struggled the rest of the way, but give credit to the backups for not getting blown out in the second half.

Simmons has been a huge disappointment so far. There's no explanation for it either, considering he was arguably the best player in the MAC last year. Yes, he was the best player for Ohio, but the Bobcats were also the second best team in the league to Akron. Brooks is the best PG for the offense, and Simpson remains the best defender but not much else. I also don't understand why Watson is still getting minutes, since Poole should be the primary backup for Abdur-Rahkman and Matthews (SG/SF). Livers is showing positive signs, but the main hope for him is that he can take more minutes away from Robinson as he continues to figure out the offense while being a better defender. I don't think we'll be seeing Wagner and Teske on the court at the same time any time soon....
“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing”
― Bo Schembechler

mcwterps1

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3152
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #344 on: December 01, 2017, 01:11:10 AM »
Michigan State has to be the #1 team in the country. 

They play Duke 5 times, they win 4 of them. 

ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20320
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #345 on: December 01, 2017, 08:25:40 AM »
Michigan State has to be the #1 team in the country.

They play Duke 5 times, they win 4 of them.
Take the names off the jersey, maybe.  Duke mental block for MSU is real.  We have to hope someone else takes them out for us in the tourney.  I'd pick us right now to beat anyone else, but Izzo can't get past K.
I still think MSU is going to struggle sometimes with perimeter oriented teams.  The interior defense is fantastic, and there is so much depth there, they can foul without fear, because they can just rotate someone else in.  But on the wings concerns me, particularly guards who can drive and get us in foul trouble out there.  DePaul actually attacked us perfectly, but simply didn't have the talent to pull it off.

ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20320
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #346 on: December 01, 2017, 10:59:34 AM »
New Lunardi with just 4 teams (MSU, PU, MD, Minny) plus UM in the play in getting in right now.

Can't even really argue with that

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25215
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #347 on: December 01, 2017, 03:46:38 PM »
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

mcwterps1

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3152
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #348 on: December 01, 2017, 08:55:46 PM »
New Lunardi with just 4 teams (MSU, PU, MD, Minny) plus UM in the play in getting in right now.

Can't even really argue with that
We're not making the tournament.

nuwildcat

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #349 on: December 01, 2017, 11:57:55 PM »
hella competitive game between NU and Illinois that could've gone either way

- just happy the 'Cats found a way to win 
NORTHWESTERN WILDCATS
Top-14 finish in the conference each year
Stellar 4-10 bowl record

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.