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Topic: The Ukraine Topic

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OrangeAfroMan

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The Ukraine Topic
« on: February 27, 2022, 06:54:31 AM »
I was looking back to the Gulf War timeline....the last overt country invades another country situation I recall. 

August - Iraq invades Kuwait
For 5 months, the US gets allies and they position militaries near the Iraq-Saudi border
For 5 weeks, we bomb the shit out of them
In late Feb, we actually take Kuwait back with boots on the ground and 100 days in, are halfway into Iraq, total dominance.


So I have 2 thoughts:
a - things seem to need/want to move so much faster now.....whether it's social media or a cluster of 24-hour news networks instead of just 1 (CNN) back then....it seems like expectations now are on relative fast-forward
and
b - the big differences between the players then and now are what they provide us (the victims - Kuwait:  oil, Ukraine......hot blondes?) and who the aggressor is (lowly Iraq vs dangerous Russia).

I've heard of Russia being labeled as a hapless gas station on the world's stage.....I tend to think of them as a big, muscular guy with twig legs.  You're screwed if he gets his hands on you, but is easier to topple over than he should be.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2022, 07:18:59 AM by OrangeAfroMan »
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2022, 08:45:17 AM »
Our military was unusually well designed to take on Iraq in 1990, that is rather singular.  And Iraq despite numbers was unmotivated and poorly  trained.  And of course the terrain was ideal for armor.

Russia is basically the same animal, big numbers, but unmotivated, poorly supplied, poor morale, and indifferent training in general.

Morale is to the material as 10 is to 1.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2022, 08:56:59 AM »
There's suggestions that Russia invaded because they think our resolve is non-existent.  We'll hem and haw and wave our arms around, but won't actually fight in a battle with them over this.  


Personally, I like the idea that if you invade someone, the rest of the world (ie- us) will automatically begin bombing your capitol.  It's not a choice, it's automatic.  
And I mean 24-7 carpet bombing - literally flattening it.  Everyone there dies.  It's not our fault, blame your leaders.  They knew it would be the automatic response.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2022, 09:11:01 AM »
I think if the rest of the world bombed Moscow because of Putin's decisions:

1.  Many many civilians would be killed.
2.  Putin wouldn't be.
3.  He could well decide to use his numerous nuclear weapons on the only country with the capability to bomb Moscow.
4.  Most conflicts these days are asymmetric where it isn't all that clear who has a Capital to bomb.
5.  Often conflicts happen in the Middle East or Africa where some capital cities are not worth bombing.
6.  Occasionally, invasions are warranted because of some specific issue.

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2022, 10:45:07 AM »
I'd view it as a replacement for nukes.  I don't believe another nuclear bomb will ever be used in a country-vs-country war.  

For one, I don't think we'll ever use ours, because we have so many useful alternatives.
For another, any other country using one against us or a friend of ours means they will be erased from the map.  

An automatic "sorry, this is the consequence when you invade someone" rule of bombing their capitol or largest city or most strategic military target or whatever you want it to be (one designated for each country) would be a non-nuclear, cataclysmic retaliation that has all the teeth.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2022, 10:48:23 AM »
Bombing Moscow with conventional weapons to any consequence would be, well, difficult.

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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2022, 10:50:37 AM »
Fro would be one tough military leader, when he wasn't parading the soldiers around in high heels. 

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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2022, 11:49:56 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2022, 08:56:59 AM
There's suggestions that Russia invaded because they think our resolve is non-existent.  We'll hem and haw and wave our arms around, but won't actually fight in a battle with them over this. 


Personally, I like the idea that if you invade someone, the rest of the world (ie- us) will automatically begin bombing your capitol.  It's not a choice, it's automatic. 
And I mean 24-7 carpet bombing - literally flattening it.  Everyone there dies.  It's not our fault, blame your leaders.  They knew it would be the automatic response.
so who is going to bomb Washington DC for.... Vietnam, Panama, Iraq I, Afghanistan, Iraq II, Libya, and Syria? We gonna bomb ourselves? 
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2022, 11:53:01 AM »
Catch 22, we hire ourselves out to bomb ourselves.  Make big money.
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MrNubbz

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2022, 12:08:40 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 08:45:17 AM
Our military was unusually well designed to take on Iraq in 1990, that is rather singular.  And Iraq despite numbers was unmotivated and poorly  trained.  And of course the terrain was ideal for armor.

Russia is basically the same animal, big numbers, but unmotivated, poorly supplied, poor morale, and indifferent training in general.

Morale is to the material as 10 is to 1.
Russia found morale when Herr Hitler/Napolean payed them a visit
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2022, 12:13:23 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on February 27, 2022, 12:08:40 PM
Russia found morale when Herr Hitler/Napolean payed them a visit
They lost morale in WW One.  Their morale in WW Two was often "enhanced" by folks with submachine guns following the advance.
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MrNubbz

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2022, 12:13:40 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 10:48:23 AM
Bombing Moscow with conventional weapons to any consequence would be, well, difficult.

Eric "Otter" Stratton: Now we could do it with conventional weapons, but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!
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MrNubbz

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2022, 12:17:09 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 12:13:23 PM
They lost morale in WW One.  Their morale in WW Two was often "enhanced" by folks with submachine guns following the advance.
So they don't have sub machine guns now?Vlad has a little skin in the game no telling what he does to motivate.If he faffs this up and fails it might inspire shall we say and enhance an "overhaul" from with in
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2022, 12:19:46 PM »
Russia doesn't have political officers so far as I know in their army encouraging the troops.
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