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I was looking back to the Gulf War timeline....the last overt country invades another country situation I recall.
August - Iraq invades Kuwait
For 5 months, the US gets allies and they position militaries near the Iraq-Saudi border
For 5 weeks, we bomb the shit out of them
In late Feb, we actually take Kuwait back with boots on the ground and 100 days in, are halfway into Iraq, total dominance.
So I have 2 thoughts:
a - things seem to need/want to move so much faster now.....whether it's social media or a cluster of 24-hour news networks instead of just 1 (CNN) back then....it seems like expectations now are on relative fast-forward
and
b - the big differences between the players then and now are what they provide us (the victims - Kuwait: oil, Ukraine......hot blondes?) and who the aggressor is (lowly Iraq vs dangerous Russia).
I've heard of Russia being labeled as a hapless gas station on the world's stage.....I tend to think of them as a big, muscular guy with twig legs. You're screwed if he gets his hands on you, but is easier to topple over than he should be.
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Our military was unusually well designed to take on Iraq in 1990, that is rather singular. And Iraq despite numbers was unmotivated and poorly trained. And of course the terrain was ideal for armor.
Russia is basically the same animal, big numbers, but unmotivated, poorly supplied, poor morale, and indifferent training in general.
Morale is to the material as 10 is to 1.
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There's suggestions that Russia invaded because they think our resolve is non-existent. We'll hem and haw and wave our arms around, but won't actually fight in a battle with them over this.
Personally, I like the idea that if you invade someone, the rest of the world (ie- us) will automatically begin bombing your capitol. It's not a choice, it's automatic.
And I mean 24-7 carpet bombing - literally flattening it. Everyone there dies. It's not our fault, blame your leaders. They knew it would be the automatic response.
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I think if the rest of the world bombed Moscow because of Putin's decisions:
1. Many many civilians would be killed.
2. Putin wouldn't be.
3. He could well decide to use his numerous nuclear weapons on the only country with the capability to bomb Moscow.
4. Most conflicts these days are asymmetric where it isn't all that clear who has a Capital to bomb.
5. Often conflicts happen in the Middle East or Africa where some capital cities are not worth bombing.
6. Occasionally, invasions are warranted because of some specific issue.
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I'd view it as a replacement for nukes. I don't believe another nuclear bomb will ever be used in a country-vs-country war.
For one, I don't think we'll ever use ours, because we have so many useful alternatives.
For another, any other country using one against us or a friend of ours means they will be erased from the map.
An automatic "sorry, this is the consequence when you invade someone" rule of bombing their capitol or largest city or most strategic military target or whatever you want it to be (one designated for each country) would be a non-nuclear, cataclysmic retaliation that has all the teeth.
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Bombing Moscow with conventional weapons to any consequence would be, well, difficult.
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Fro would be one tough military leader, when he wasn't parading the soldiers around in high heels.
(https://images04.military.com/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/media/news/service/2015/04/rotc-heels1-600.jpg)
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There's suggestions that Russia invaded because they think our resolve is non-existent. We'll hem and haw and wave our arms around, but won't actually fight in a battle with them over this.
Personally, I like the idea that if you invade someone, the rest of the world (ie- us) will automatically begin bombing your capitol. It's not a choice, it's automatic.
And I mean 24-7 carpet bombing - literally flattening it. Everyone there dies. It's not our fault, blame your leaders. They knew it would be the automatic response.
so who is going to bomb Washington DC for.... Vietnam, Panama, Iraq I, Afghanistan, Iraq II, Libya, and Syria? We gonna bomb ourselves?
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Catch 22, we hire ourselves out to bomb ourselves. Make big money.
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Our military was unusually well designed to take on Iraq in 1990, that is rather singular. And Iraq despite numbers was unmotivated and poorly trained. And of course the terrain was ideal for armor.
Russia is basically the same animal, big numbers, but unmotivated, poorly supplied, poor morale, and indifferent training in general.
Morale is to the material as 10 is to 1.
Russia found morale when Herr Hitler/Napolean payed them a visit
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Russia found morale when Herr Hitler/Napolean payed them a visit
They lost morale in WW One. Their morale in WW Two was often "enhanced" by folks with submachine guns following the advance.
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Bombing Moscow with conventional weapons to any consequence would be, well, difficult.
(https://i.imgur.com/7CneTSJ.png)
Eric "Otter" Stratton: Now we could do it with conventional weapons, but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!
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They lost morale in WW One. Their morale in WW Two was often "enhanced" by folks with submachine guns following the advance.
So they don't have sub machine guns now?Vlad has a little skin in the game no telling what he does to motivate.If he faffs this up and fails it might inspire shall we say and enhance an "overhaul" from with in
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Russia doesn't have political officers so far as I know in their army encouraging the troops.
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Russia doesn't have political officers so far as I know in their army encouraging the troops.
They have their stoolies like Stalin had Beria.Who denounce them when gone.But lap dogs while alive
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That just seems really stupid. You don’t think Russia has bombs and bombers of their own? Maybe they can’t strike directly back at Washington DC but they could inflect some pain on Europe and major European cities and capitals. Then we’re basically in WW III.
Plus Russia could launch cruise missiles and non nuclear ICBMs. The ICBMs wouldn’t do much damage on the surface but a few well placed bombs would certainly damage the psyche of their targets. Not to mention you wouldn’t know it was a non nuclear payload until it hit. It would be a terrifyingly long few minutes assuming the recipient country could detect the launch.
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It's ignorant as a concept.
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That just seems really stupid. You don’t think Russia has bombs and bombers of their own? Maybe they can’t strike directly back at Washington DC
Considering what these assholes have turned into might save us alittle work
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I keep thinking back to the US lead invasion of Iraq in 2003. They were a sovereign country. Ruled by a dictator and his thugs sure but as far as I can tell they kept to themselves after the Kuwait fiasco. Nobody really knows the purpose of why we invaded other than “9-11”, and WMD.
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I have here a pretty good book IMHO, "Plan of Attack". It's a classic case I saw often at work, the Head Guy decides on a thing, and the sycophants all over themselves telling the HG how right he is. Anyone who demurs takes career damage.
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I keep thinking back to the US lead invasion of Iraq in 2003. They were a sovereign country. Ruled by a dictator and his thugs sure but as far as I can tell they kept to themselves after the Kuwait fiasco. Nobody really knows the purpose of why we invaded other than “9-11”, and WMD.
Cuz daddy never got 'him.'
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so who is going to bomb Washington DC for.... Vietnam, Panama, Iraq I, Afghanistan, Iraq II, Libya, and Syria? We gonna bomb ourselves?
Thank you for making the larger point.
You get a brownie.
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Bombing Moscow with conventional weapons to any consequence would be, well, difficult.
I was under the impression that our bombers are too high for anyone fast enough to harm them and too fast for anyone high enough.
No?
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I was under the impression that our bombers are too high for anyone fast enough to harm them and too fast for anyone high enough.
No?
No. The Soviets shot down a U2 in 1960.
Bombers today attempt to enter hostile airspace going as low as possible, below radar, below hills using terrain following radar. Anybody up high would get shot down, aside from perhaps the B-2. We have a grand total of 20 B-2s.
The B-52 radar signature is enormous. The B-1B is sizeable, it is capable of supersonic flight for short distances, and it's obsolescent. One would need multiple sorties by all our B-52s to damage a large city to much extent using non-nuclear.
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That just seems really stupid. You don’t think Russia has bombs and bombers of their own? Maybe they can’t strike directly back at Washington DC but they could inflect some pain on Europe and major European cities and capitals. Then we’re basically in WW III.
So a non-nuclear yet harsh counter-attack is really stupid. Mkay.
We know where all their shit is. For the U.S. to finally be able to declare war on a country would be a relief. Like Superman fighting someone his own size....no more pulling punches, no more worrying about stopping the bad guy without killing him......just unleash hell on an enemy.
Russia would be a fucking ghost. A rumor. History book fodder like Sumer and sanskrit.
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I was under the impression that our bombers are too high for anyone fast enough to harm them and too fast for anyone high enough.
No?
Gary Powers was at 70,000 feet when he was downed and that was over 50 years ago so I doubt a plane can fly too high
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No. The Soviets shot down a U2 in 1960.
Bombers today attempt to enter hostile airspace going as low as possible, below radar, below hills using terrain following radar. Anybody up high would get shot down, aside from perhaps the B-2. We have a grand total of 20 B-2s.
The B-52 radar signature is enormous. The B-1B is sizeable, it is capable of supersonic flight for short distances, and it's obsolescent. One would need multiple sorties by all our B-52s to damage a large city to much extent using non-nuclear.
Hmph. Okay. Then the most realistic thing would be sending a bunch of poor 19 year olds on suicide missions.
Done.
None of the decision-makers would bat an eye.
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A nuclear strike on Russia would obviously be, well, risky, on a number of points, which is why no one has used one since 1945.
MAD.
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This is meant to turn the "In Other News" thread back to, well, just that. Please keep this thread as apolitical as possible with respect to who is more at fault for whatever in this country. A way to do that is don't refer to the current, or past, President, except in a factual manner.
https://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/world/115201/military_drones_from_sicily_flying_recon_missions_over_ukraine_black_sea?fbclid=IwAR0RzL2CavM85OKOcjCnA9zm669OJ4xGrk62GR5HcH9zgeJkl0fV4LyA4P0
American military drones at Sigonella have been flying recon missions over Ukraine
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This is meant to turn the "In Other News" thread back to, well, just that. Please keep this thread as apolitical as possible with respect to who is more at fault for whatever in this country. A way to do that is don't refer to the current, or past, President, except in a factual manner.
https://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/world/115201/military_drones_from_sicily_flying_recon_missions_over_ukraine_black_sea?fbclid=IwAR0RzL2CavM85OKOcjCnA9zm669OJ4xGrk62GR5HcH9zgeJkl0fV4LyA4P0
American military drones at Sigonella have been flying recon missions over Ukraine
thank god for advanced recon drones like those.
back in the day- used to have to have a pilot in there - and well if he got shot down things could get messy.
now if a drone gets shot down - it's just a missing piece of expensive hardware.
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https://twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1498074716246052864?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498074716246052864%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fglobal_mil_info%2Fstatus%2F1498074716246052864%3Fs%3D21
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https://twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1498074716246052864?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498074716246052864%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fglobal_mil_info%2Fstatus%2F1498074716246052864%3Fs%3D21
hopefully this turns out to be true, and hopefully this means a peace deal has been struck.....hopefully.
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hopefully this turns out to be true, and hopefully this means a peace deal has been struck.....hopefully.
I hope so too!
My mind goes to other reasons they might be pulling back and getting clear, but I hope it's the first step toward resolution.
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https://twitter.com/PaulSonne/status/1498011041703383040?s=20&t=3qv01jeFiwCbAZR4_jnJRw
https://twitter.com/PaulSonne/status/1498023623537270787?s=20&t=3qv01jeFiwCbAZR4_jnJRw
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I've definitely worried in the past that someone worse than Putin could take charge.
But that was back when he acted rationally in self-interest.
He is no longer acting rationally, and I don't believe someone else would be any worse than Putin is right now.
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sooo...about that neo-nazi problem....the official twitter account of the Ukranian national guard has a pretty disgusting post in which Azov Batallion fighters are shown dipping bullets in pigs lard to "kill the Kadyrov orcs."
According to their faith, Muslims cannot consume/have pork in their bodies. Kadyrov is a reference to Ramzan Kadyrov, the leader of the Chechen Republic, a Muslim-majority region of Russia. Orcs is a derogatory slang term used in Ukraine for Muslims- and refers to demons from the Lord of the Rings.
This is the official twitter account of the Ukrainian national guard.
https://twitter.com/ng_ukraine/status/1497924614865002497?s=20&t=-cLldRipWprjQEqGqCe5jw
So to recap, the Western-backed Ukrainian state is publicly portraying Muslims as barbarians and lauding its neo-nazi soldiers for threatening to kill them with lard-greased bullets that they hope will send Chechen fighters to hell.
The Azov Battalion is an explicitly neo-nazi militia (which helped lead a violent US-sponsored coup in Ukraine in 2014) and has subsequently been incorporated into the Ukrainian armed forces. And the US has zero business letting arms fall into these goons hands. In fact, they have a moral obligation to ensure that does not happen.
Azov Battalion uses Nazi symbols like the German Wolfsangel and they preach a white-supremacist fascist ideology which portrays Ukrainians as a pure white race fighting supposedly impure “asiatic” Russians.
Here's Azov Battalion fighters...bunch of swell fellas....
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMn_XkkXEAIz_2L?format=jpg&name=large)
And here's US officers chumming it up with Azov Battalion commanders
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTrqyzEVMAA5Z3G?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTrq0A1VQAEh2HM?format=jpg&name=900x900)
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I knew a guy who worked for the county and had run in with the chechens - they bombed schools/killed kids & staff - deliberately.According to this guy who has since moved to like N. Mexico they were the slimeballs on the hindsight of humanity
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Since Cincy decided to make a separate thread for it, I'll be removing all posts not related to Putin's illegal and murderous invasion of Ukraine on this thread.
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I knew a guy who worked for the county and had run in with the chechens - they bombed schools/killed kids & staff - deliberately.According to this guy who has since moved to like N. Mexico they were the slimeballs on the hindsight of humanity
They are. They're the worst of the worst.
Of course Putin's murderous invasion forces are also bombing schools and killing kids, so there's really not any difference.
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FRANKFURT, Germany — An Austria-based subsidiary of Russia’s state-owned Sberbank has been ruled likely to fail after depositors fled due to the impact of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
The European Central Bank said early Monday that the bank had 13.6 billion euros in assets at the end of last year, but has experienced “significant deposit outflows” due to “geopolitical tensions.”
The ECB says Vienna-headquartered Sberbank Europe AG “is likely to be unable to pay its debts or other liabilities as they fall due.” The bank is a fully owned subsidiary of Russia’s Sberbank, whose majority shareholder is the Russian government.
Europe’s bank resolution board separately says it has imposed a payments ban on money owed by the bank and a limit on how much depositors can withdraw. The board will decide on further steps, which could include restructuring, selling or liquidating the bank.
Sberbank Europe operates 185 branches and has more than 3,933 employees.
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They are. They're the worst of the worst.
Of course Putin's murderous invasion forces are also bombing schools and killing kids, so there's really not any difference.
Ukraine’s Interior Ministry says 352 Ukrainian civilians have been killed during Russia’s invasion, including 14 children. It says an additional 1,684 people, including 116 children, have been wounded.
he ministry’s statement Sunday does not give any information on casualties among Ukraine’s armed forces.
Russia has claimed that its troops are targeting only Ukrainian military facilities and says that Ukraine’s civilian population is not in danger.
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Ukraine’s Interior Ministry says 352 Ukrainian civilians have been killed during Russia’s invasion, including 14 children. It says an additional 1,684 people, including 116 children, have been wounded.
he ministry’s statement Sunday does not give any information on casualties among Ukraine’s armed forces.
Russia has claimed that its troops are targeting only Ukrainian military facilities and says that Ukraine’s civilian population is not in danger.
Yes, lying Russian propaganda says this.
There's video evidence to the contrary.
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They are. They're the worst of the worst.
Of course Putin's murderous invasion forces are also bombing schools and killing kids, so there's really not any difference.
But Mdot's crying a river for them,if they had the numbers there would be a real crisis on our hands
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Does seem curious, doesn't it?
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Doesn't seem like people who really want to negotiate for peace would be doing this, does it?
https://twitter.com/idreesali114/status/1498072683866734600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498072683866734600%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fidreesali114%2Fstatus%2F1498072683866734600
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I wonder if Putin has every read about the Battle of Stalingrad cause history
has a habit of coming back and biting folks who ignore it in the ass
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https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1498085585319350273?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498085585319350273%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FELINTNews%2Fstatus%2F1498085585319350273
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Part 37,513 of Putin's a dickfaced murdering asshole who harms and kills children:
https://twitter.com/AP/status/1498079346032001024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498079346032001024%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAP%2Fstatus%2F1498079346032001024%3Fs%3D2026t%3DjVQ4mxTeL1oG-GhxDt-bcQ
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This is meant to turn the "In Other News" thread back to, well, just that. Please keep this thread as apolitical as possible with respect to who is more at fault for whatever in this country. A way to do that is don't refer to the current, or past, President, except in a factual manner.
https://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/world/115201/military_drones_from_sicily_flying_recon_missions_over_ukraine_black_sea?fbclid=IwAR0RzL2CavM85OKOcjCnA9zm669OJ4xGrk62GR5HcH9zgeJkl0fV4LyA4P0
American military drones at Sigonella have been flying recon missions over Ukraine
There's already a thread for this
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Well there is now.
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And I thought Putin was a dickface....
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That's what I'm saying.....but I'm wrong because.....I said it.
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Ukraine’s Interior Ministry says 352 Ukrainian civilians have been killed during Russia’s invasion, including 14 children. It says an additional 1,684 people, including 116 children, have been wounded.
he ministry’s statement Sunday does not give any information on casualties among Ukraine’s armed forces.
Russia has claimed that its troops are targeting only Ukrainian military facilities and says that Ukraine’s civilian population is not in danger.
every war has civilian casualties. just part of why war is so god awful, inhumane, and disgusting.
and every aggressor claims that it's only targeting and killing the military combatants/bad guys. which of course is never true.
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But Mdot's crying a river for them,if they had the numbers there would be a real crisis on our hands
crying a river for them? hardly. pointing out a disgusting racist as day post by the official twitter account of the Ukrainian national guard which is praising a neo-nazi group (Azov Battalion) that is under their banner and part of their forces (since 2015) for dipping bullets in pigs lard and calling Muslims orcs - is hardly crying a river for them.
Could you imagine if an official twitter account US or any other Western country did the same thing? Cause I can't.
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Doesn't seem like people who really want to negotiate for peace would be doing this, does it?
https://twitter.com/idreesali114/status/1498072683866734600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498072683866734600%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fidreesali114%2Fstatus%2F1498072683866734600
I was afraid that if Russia started getting impatient or felt backed into a corner they would take the gloves off go straight war crimes and just not give a shit and start doing this kind of heinous shit.
was hoping they'd make a deal before it got to that or even worse...
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https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1498085585319350273?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498085585319350273%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FELINTNews%2Fstatus%2F1498085585319350273
yeah, so this is not good....not good at all.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274948272_10226192535417046_8218089471931035911_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1fnpNRkvID0AX848HE1&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_2V7p_PIsbMyn6HIf_FyyEBigckhWJtoYsrVdgJgEC6g&oe=62206920)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274736723_371130208392318_740223502346147631_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=m-hmfUxLXdEAX-iJAMg&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_t3nuIk_4JwJrWOEL9SKubcqQ51XUx88WGdbw--YiShw&oe=622112C2)
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I don't see how even tactical nukes is of any use to Putin. Ukrainian forces are not concentrated (much) that I can figure. They aren't useful as city busters, even if he wanted to take out a city for some reason. I think it's just meant as a warning as NATO reinforces near his borders. He has much of his military engaged and unable to respond to any NATO incursion, so he sends a nuclear warning not to try that.
I would guess any Ohio class subs we have docked are getting ready to deploy as fast as they can, they generally do 6 months gold and 6 blue but can surge if needed.
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So a non-nuclear yet harsh counter-attack is really stupid. Mkay.
We know where all their shit is. For the U.S. to finally be able to declare war on a country would be a relief. Like Superman fighting someone his own size....no more pulling punches, no more worrying about stopping the bad guy without killing him......just unleash hell on an enemy.
Russia would be a fucking ghost. A rumor. History book fodder like Sumer and sanskrit.
I assumed by "unleash hell" you meant a nuclear first strike, as opposed to the notion we could bomb Moscow conventionally.
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To note, I don't think this thread benefits from more discussion about how neoNazis are in Ukraine and part of their military. We all get the point, it needn't be made again. Please stick to apolitical comments and observations about the conflict.
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crying a river for them? hardly. pointing out a disgusting racist as day post by the official twitter account of the Ukrainian national guard which is praising a neo-nazi group (Azov Battalion) that is under their banner and part of their forces (since 2015) for dipping bullets in pigs lard and calling Muslims orcs - is hardly crying a river for them.
Could you imagine if an official twitter account US or any other Western country did the same thing? Cause I can't.
They(Chechens) by their own behavior according to someone who lived there deserved every shitty response.Oh god they were called names,so were the assholes busting up cities here - you reap what you sow.They would wipe you,me and every one else on this board off of this Earth.If those roles were reversed you are deluded if you think you'd have a voice.Want to pull for the Ukranians fine they were not poking the bear
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so who is going to bomb Washington DC for.... Vietnam, Panama, Iraq I, Afghanistan, Iraq II, Libya, and Syria? We gonna bomb ourselves?
Vietnam was definitely different than the others a populous country during the height of the cold war being infiltrated/supported by Russia/China who both supplied either men/materiel/bombs/bullets etc and the sitting government requesting US involvement/assisstance.I'm all for draining the special interest swamp over here though
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I was under the impression that our bombers are too high for anyone fast enough to harm them and too fast for anyone high enough.
No?
look up Francsis Gary Powers,that's usually discussed in American History class
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I was under the impression that our bombers are too high for anyone fast enough to harm them and too fast for anyone high enough.
No?
There was one plane that flew high and fast enough that the Russians could not shoot it down, the SR-71. However it was not a bomber, it was a reconnaissance aircraft that flew over Russia snapping pictures for our intelligence to analyze. It was retired because we now have satellites capable of doing every bit as good a job while being able to instantly send photo's back without putting anyone (pilot) in danger.
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The B-58 probably could have penetrated Russian air space at altitude back in the day, it had a short career. The B-1A was designed as a high altitude supersonic bomber, but it was halted and eventually redesigned as the B-1B that would go in at low altitude. (It's nickname is the "Bone", beautiful plane.)
The B-2 might be able to traverse Russian airspace to at least some degree, but as noted, we only have 20 of them.
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So a non-nuclear yet harsh counter-attack is really stupid. Mkay.
We know where all their shit is. For the U.S. to finally be able to declare war on a country would be a relief. Like Superman fighting someone his own size....no more pulling punches, no more worrying about stopping the bad guy without killing him......just unleash hell on an enemy.
Russia would be a fucking ghost. A rumor. History book fodder like Sumer and sanskrit.
What you're advocating for is basically all out war, like WWIII. And it would never result in any kind of victory because if you even had sustained success on the ground they'd drop a nuke an obliterate any kind of army as it advanced. Even on their own soil. Heck they might even drop a nuke or two over our way just for good measure.
We'd bomb each other into oblivion, all the while China would sit back and stay quiet until the smoke and dust clears. Then we'd all be their slaves (for real this time).
No thanks. I hate what's happening to Ukraine but it should be up to Europe and their neighbors to help them out.
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B-52's are big, slow, and mostly defenseless. They will bring them in only when total air domination has occurred or when the defenses are like those in Afghanistan.
If we did bomb it would be by smaller planes with few bombs. Like F-15's and F-22's. Until Air Superiority is reached. Then they send in the BUFFS.
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The EU is providing Ukraine with fighter jets among other lethal aid. Several EU members who are former Soviet bloc nations have Russian built fighters like Poland's Mig-29s that Ukrainian pilots are already familiar with.
https://euobserver.com/world/154450 (https://euobserver.com/world/154450)
I must say I'm happy to see the EU taking the lead on sticking it to Putin.
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The biggest thing Europe "could" do in theory is cut off buying oil and NG from Russia, we could as well. More realistic is they (Germany) could announce serious plans to develop other sources of NG. And then do it.
The US imports a surprising amount of oil from Russia since 1995, and we did so when Trump was President as well. They are our Number 2 supplier.
U.S. Imports from Russia of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products (Thousand Barrels) (eia.gov) (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIM_NUS-NRS_1&f=M)
If we didn't of course, China would step in, and we'd buy it from Saudi Arabia instead of China.
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I think the two Ukraine topics should be merged.
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I think the two Ukraine topics should be merged.
I too was confused by this and would like to buy this post and poster a beer.
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They(Chechens) by their own behavior according to someone who lived there deserved every shitty response.Oh god they were called names,so were the assholes busting up cities here - you reap what you sow.They would wipe you,me and every one else on this board off of this Earth.If those roles were reversed you are deluded if you think you'd have a voice.Want to pull for the Ukranians fine they were not poking the bear
Never met a Chechen, but I’m well aware of their reputation as nasty sobs.
regardless, that was a disgusting Twitter post by an official government account. No censorship or ban from Twitter there.
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So….looks like Biden is f**ked because of his own making. Biden still refuses to speak to MbS and has picked a feud with the one man who could help him keep oil prices stable in MbS. The French bithcboy Macron visited MbS on behalf of Biden to ask him about increasing production and MbS told him to kick rocks. Is there a more ineffective, useless leader in all the western world than Macron? Literally no one respects him lol. Putin told him to pound sand you’ve got no power I’m not negotiating with you and MbS just told him the same thing. Saudis will not push OPEC+ to increase production.
https://twitter.com/AliAlAhmed_en/status/1498107638005047303?s=20&t=oEv7z4BSYKCVMNl8mwBpKA
https://twitter.com/AliAlAhmed_en/status/1498122973177384966?s=20&t=oEv7z4BSYKCVMNl8mwBpKA
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Never met a Chechen, but I’m well aware of their reputation as nasty sobs.
regardless, that was a disgusting Twitter post by an official government account. No censorship or ban from Twitter there.
Ya perhaps but warring factions are seldom toasting their adveraries in the war room - they were dumb to let that get out
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So crushing Russia with economic sanctions isn’t just going to hurt Russia, but a lot of surrounding countries that count on remittance money being sent from migrant workers or immigrants living in Russia back to their home countries.
https://twitter.com/sopjap/status/1498033040899117060?s=20&t=oEv7z4BSYKCVMNl8mwBpKA
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Russia is basically the same animal, big numbers, but unmotivated, poorly supplied, poor morale, and indifferent training in general.
I can tell you Russia’s headache with lack of motivation and morale, indifference, and higher distraction amongst their service members are a noticeably increased problem in the U.S. military as well.
Though both the U.S. and Russia have highly capable Special Forces and technological advantages that outpace the rest of the world (except for maybe China), those focuses miss what I see as a startling rise of incompetence throughout the U.S. Military, from the enlisted through our officer ranks. A typical Destroyer, for example, boasts up to $120 million dollars’ worth of weapons systems when ramped up for deployment. However many of its operators, to include those charged with navigation and engine room operations, are far less disciplined and proficient with those systems than only a decade ago.
Should the U.S. embark on a similarly large scale Iraq or Ukraine mission (such as we’re actively building assets toward in the far Pacific) a new, unspoken obstacle we’ll face is engaging the enemy with a less adept and mission-minded labor force.
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Hope this remains true...
(https://i.imgur.com/xhZoJyN.jpg)
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so swift handles about 90%+ of international cross-border payments.
My worry is that much of the rest of the world will see Russia being banned from swift and accelerate the world turning away from it.
China has already been trying to turn away from swift and has been developing their own cross-border payments systems and digital currency. They are the largest manufacturer in the world, largest exporter in the world, and 2nd largest economy in the world. Russia joining China’s cross payments system as the 2nd largest producer and exporter of oil and the 2nd largest producer and exporter of natural gas - probably not a good thing.
https://twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1498126686197592064?s=20&t=oEv7z4BSYKCVMNl8mwBpKA
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The B-2 might be able to traverse Russian airspace to at least some degree, but as noted, we only have 20 of them.
20 seems like a small number, but I'd guess there would be cornsiderable damage
enough to send a message
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For the time being it's entirely worth it in order to do what we can to cut off Russia from the rest of the world.
At this point I don't see any resolution of this, that includes Putin. The war crimes are piling up and this time the atrocities are being recorded on video and shared throughout the world in real time. Regardless of what happens with Ukraine, the world can no longer tolerate a Russia with Putin at the helm, so the sanctions and military tensions will continue until that is no longer the case.
Russia's best possible outcome now, is for someone on the inside to take out Putin. It's really the only outcome that doesn't end with Russia being reduced to North Korea levels of isolation.
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I'm ok with either outcome
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So….looks like Biden is f**ked because of his own making. Biden still refuses to speak to MbS and has picked a feud with the one man who could help him keep oil prices stable in MbS. The French bithcboy Macron visited MbS on behalf of Biden to ask him about increasing production and MbS told him to kick rocks. Is there a more ineffective, useless leader in all the western world than Macron? Literally no one respects him lol. Putin told him to pound sand you’ve got no power I’m not negotiating with you and MbS just told him the same thing. Saudis will not push OPEC+ to increase production.
If we could avoid, or at least minimize, political opinions here, that would be great.
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20 seems like a small number, but I'd guess there would be cornsiderable damage
enough to send a message
Twenty B-2s would cause consider damage to an urban area, but it wouldn't somehow wipe Moscow off the map. Its payload is about 40,000 pounds, a B-52 can drop nearly double that. The ordnance might be 500 pound bombs when targeting a city, so 80 of them per plane.
Recall we had 1,000 bomber raids of Berlin, those planes could carry about 2 tons each (4,000 pounds), so that would be the equivalent of 100 B2s per raid, and it took many raids to do significant damage to Berlin. This is one reason the Allies resorted to incendiaries (Dresden, Hamburg, Tokyo).
It's not that easy to bomb out a city with conventional weapons, cities are large. Even with nukes it can take 4-5 of them to really destroy most of a larger city.
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I don't see how even tactical nukes is of any use to Putin. Ukrainian forces are not concentrated (much) that I can figure. They aren't useful as city busters, even if he wanted to take out a city for some reason. I think it's just meant as a warning as NATO reinforces near his borders. He has much of his military engaged and unable to respond to any NATO incursion, so he sends a nuclear warning not to try that.
I would guess any Ohio class subs we have docked are getting ready to deploy as fast as they can, they generally do 6 months gold and 6 blue but can surge if needed.
Agree, I don't actually see a scenario where tactical nukes would be used. It's a threat to hold other concerned world parties at bay.
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If we could avoid, or at least minimize, political opinions here, that would be great.
You got it boss.
I’m just saying, MbS is going to provide zero help if/when oil prices rise. Largely just to be spiteful bc he hates Biden. Dictators gonna dictate. Even higher gas prices at the pump and even more inflation….gonna be a mess.
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I travel for work and higher gas prices cost me more money than most others.
I'm at about 1,000 miles a week or more
but, if higher gasoline helps cripple Putin and end this war, I'm willing to do my part
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I'm not about bombing out an entire city
crazy to do that to civilians
20 planes times 80 500lb bombs each on selected targets could send a message
and then that message could be sent again and again as needed
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Agree, I don't actually see a scenario where tactical nukes would be used. It's a threat to hold other concerned world parties at bay.
I would agree too, but you never know what someone might do once backed into a corner and also…accidents, mistakes and miscalculations can happen.
US and USSR/Russia were minutes away from nuclear exchange in 1980, 1983, and 1995 bc of mistake/accident.
I pray it never happens, but I feel like a nuclear exchange will happen at some point in the future. There are too many of these weapons in the world and human beings nor our technology are perfect. Mistakes and accidents can happen. Only way to ensure they never get used is to destroy them all and make it international law that they are not to be built or used and enforce that law like nothing has ever been enforced before.
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I wish it could be so. In an ideal world it would be. A lot of things would be different, in an ideal world.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274928489_10222704293218537_1592985396076592551_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=1crtvsFaC4wAX9r4v_I&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT80YH-QrknW4-S_cCkN70gVhxEji_QeUCehh7W25x2dOQ&oe=62216BED)
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perhaps secret agent 007 could take out Putin?
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perhaps secret agent 007 could take out Putin?
Maybe don't watch the newest one
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https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1498293055459315715?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498293055459315715%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FSamRamani2%2Fstatus%2F1498293055459315715%3Fs%3D2026t%3D09ui4SDM8caWdmc9BsiZKg
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I'm not about bombing out an entire city
crazy to do that to civilians
20 planes times 80 500lb bombs each on selected targets could send a message
and then that message could be sent again and again as needed
Selected targets could be taken out with cruise missiles unless they are hardened. And most targets of this ilk would be hardened, like Cheyenne Mountain (which is no longer NORAD).
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https://twitter.com/HenriVanhanen/status/1498288545273946112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498288545273946112%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FHenriVanhanen%2Fstatus%2F1498288545273946112%3Fs%3D2026t%3DuFjYa-NXmgSjZ6z7y_A2XQ
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And as I've noted, I like to find the humor in the internet postings. As a cyclist I have to laugh at the comment.
(https://i.imgur.com/i1dOzpt.png)
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so Switzerland no longer neutral. Kind of a big deal. One can argue- hey its not military action - but sanctions are in effect an act of war.
If one wanted to be cynical they could come to the conclusion that the US wanted Russia to overreact, invade Ukraine and be ostracized and kicked out of the EU/Western Europe. It benefits US oil, natural gas, and defense industries. All these countries are now talking about beefing up on defense spending. Germany most specifically. And not sure that’s a good thing seeing as the Germans, well you know. Germany has also announced they are building the infrastructure and terminals so they can import US LNG.
US is the worlds largest exporter of LNG and the 4th largest exporter of oil in the world. US is also the worlds largest exporter of weapons in the entire world.
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https://www.foxnews.com/world/kremlin-400-russian-mercenaries-kyiv-assassinate-zelenskyy
Jesus. In addition to being hunted by rockets, cruise missles and heavily armed foot soldiers- now the guy has 400 trained killers after him.
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Sanctions are employed widely for many reasons, and are not considered in effect some act of war. War is a pretty specific thing.
Countries Sanctioned by the U.S. and Why (investopedia.com) (https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0410/countries-sanctioned-by-the-u.s.---and-why.aspx)
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perhaps secret agent 007 could take out Putin?
Shaken or stirred?
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Maybe don't watch the newest one
was very disappointed in that one.
Daniel Craig is by far the best Bond to me, and Casino Royale and Skyfall the best Bond films.
I can understand why he didn’t want to do it anymore, but it sucks to see him go.
I hope they reboot it and do almost like an origin story. Start with a childhood Bond do cutback scenes almost like Nolan did with Batman Begins. Find a youngish actor who can play mid 20s and do the role for 5-6 movies and 15 years like Craig did.
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Biden admin says, hey guys if this goes nuclear and you don’t die from nuclear blast, radiation/fallout, or nuclear winter….please social distance bc COVID!!!!
Yeah bc that’s what we’ll all be worried/thinking about if nuclear exchange happens, lol.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10560335/Biden-updates-nuclear-explosion-guidelines-include-SOCIAL-DISTANCING-Putin-readies-missiles.html
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Maybe we could focus discussion on the topic here, instead of whatever Biden or Macron is saying ....
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so in a really weird story and just to show you how extreme elements of the Ukraine govt became post US-backed coup in 2014- American action star Steven Seagal was banned from ever entering Ukraine by the government in 2016 or 2017- because they considered him a national security threat.
True story. I guess they thought his action films where he kills shitloads of people with his bare hands were documentaries and got afraid?
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unbelievable,had to be a hacker no one is that bent
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Hacker? Nah. I'm gonna go with Russian troll. They're everywhere.
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Biden admin says, hey guys if this goes nuclear and you don’t die from nuclear blast, radiation/fallout, or nuclear winter….please social distance bc COVID!!!!
Yeah bc that’s what we’ll all be worried/thinking about if nuclear exchange happens, lol.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10560335/Biden-updates-nuclear-explosion-guidelines-include-SOCIAL-DISTANCING-Putin-readies-missiles.html
I can be in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada in less than 8 hours - probably close to 7 hours if the speed limit isn't being enforced.
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Maybe we could focus discussion on the topic here, instead of whatever Biden or Macron is saying ....
Yeah, never said anything about what Macron is saying nor do I care. The French bitchboy is an ineffective and weak leader who has no real power outside of his own country- just think it’s funny how no one respects him and he seems clueless or oblivious to why.
And Saudis keeping energy prices high by refusing to ramp up production and nuclear war and the official gov’t nuclear explosion guidance this administration has put forth are directly related to this topic, so, um, yeah.
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So….looks like Biden is f**ked because of his own making. Biden still refuses to speak to MbS and has picked a feud with the one man who could help him keep oil prices stable in MbS. The French bithcboy Macron visited MbS on behalf of Biden to ask him about increasing production and MbS told him to kick rocks. Is there a more ineffective, useless leader in all the western world than Macron? Literally no one respects him lol. Putin told him to pound sand you’ve got no power I’m not negotiating with you and MbS just told him the same thing. Saudis will not push OPEC+ to increase production.
You did complain here about Biden and Macron. I'm asking that such posts be limited in the interest of discussing the topic, not political personalities and what you think of them. If you want to post what Biden or Macron DID, related to this, fine, just limit the OPINIONS.
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Hacker? Nah. I'm gonna go with Russian troll. They're everywhere.
No troll. The CNN Twitter “post” that people were retweeting seriously where Seagal was with Russian forces on the Ukrainian front was - just that trolling. People fell for hook line and sinker not seeing it as parody, but turns out it was just parody and not true.
As for Steven Seagal being banned from Ukraine, that actually happened. I was shocked when I read it. They’re banning washed up 80s/90s action stars now? Whose next, Bruce Willis? Hey if it stops these guys from making terrible direct to dvd/streaming movies- I’m all for that.
https://amp.theguardian.com/culture/2017/may/05/ukraine-bans-steven-seagal-national-security-russian-citizenship
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I'd be happy if we banned Steven Seagal movies here in the USA, how do we make that happen?
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Russia kicked out of the World Cup, and UEFA cancelled their 40 million Euro sponsorship deal with Gazprom
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Russia kicked out of the World Cup, and UEFA cancelled their 40 million Euro sponsorship deal with Gazprom
A couple of days ago Formula 1 canceled the Russian Grand Prix, and Haas F1 team dropped its Russian sponsor Uralkali.
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You did complain here about Biden and Macron. I'm asking that such posts be limited in the interest of discussing the topic, not political personalities and what you think of them. If you want to post what Biden or Macron DID, related to this, fine, just limit the OPINIONS.
There was no opinion there.
MbS does not like Biden. This is matter of open record. Biden refuses to acknowledge him or talk to him still. This is also open record.
I never said anything about Macron other than what was reported- that he was sent to speak with MbS about Saudis ramping up oil production and MbS essentially told him to f**k off, we’re not increasing shit.
Putin basically did the same thing and publicly said something of the lines that Macron has no power and is not in position to negotiate- ie meaning US/Biden is who holds the power and that’s who he’ll negotiate with.
Saudis ramping production and making opec (which they largely control) do the same would be the only thing to cool oil prices down if they start skyrocketing bc of this mess. They’ve already said no, we’re not doing it. Pound sand. And it’s largely bc MbS is trying to put the screws to Biden, whom he hates.
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Russia kicked out of the World Cup, and UEFA cancelled their 40 million Euro sponsorship deal with Gazprom
man the hits just keep coming. Putin badly miscalculated.
Banned by the IOC next?
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man the hits just keep coming. Putin badly miscalculated.
Banned by the IOC next?
IOC is currently "urging" the various international sporting bodies to exclude Russian and Belarussian athletes from international competitions. I don't know if there's much actual "Olympic" international sporting activity going on with the winter games just past and the summer games a couple years away, but there are many other international events that occur throughout the year.
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This is one of the most awesome videos on the internet:
https://twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1498332884121399307?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498342390440116225%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fkristinarepa%2Fstatus%2F1498342390440116225%3Fs%3D21
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man the hits just keep coming. Putin badly miscalculated.
Banned by the IOC next?
ioc already "recommends" ban of russian and belarusian athletes. we'll see if they do more i guess.
https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/ioc-recommends-banning-russian-belarusian-athletes-international-events-2022-02-28/
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IOC is currently "urging" the various international sporting bodies to exclude Russian and Belarussian athletes from international competitions. I don't know if there's much actual "Olympic" international sporting activity going on with the winter games just past and the summer games a couple years away, but there are many other international events that occur throughout the year.
winter paralympics start this friday in beijing. the ipc (international paralympics committee) are meeting wednesday to discuss events.
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think it’s clear Putin badly miscalculated/misjudged the blowback he’d receive from the west, specifically Europe.
He had to know US would be all over his ass, but he was probably thinking it’d be similar to 2014- where it was bad but not crushing and Europe came groveling back to him anyway.
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French President Emmanuel Macron and Russian President Vladimir Putin spoke by phone Monday and agreed to remain in contact in the coming days, but the Élysée Palace and Kremlin provided starkly different accounts of the discussions.
The Élysée Palace issued a statement saying Putin “confirmed his willingness to” 1) stop all attacks against civilians and civilian residences; 2) preserve civilian infrastructure; 3) secure (i.e. not attack) roads, in particular to the south of Kyiv.
The Kremlin statement made no such mention of these things. Instead, it said Putin told Macron that the situation would be resolved only by 1) unconditional recognition of Russian security interests including its sovereignty over Crimea; 2) the demilitarization and denazification of the Ukrainian government; 3) Ukrainian neutrality.
The Kremlin said Putin also told Macron that Russian military forces do not threaten the peaceful residents of Ukraine and are not attacking civilian targets. “The threat comes from Ukrainian nationalists, who are placing weapons in residential buildings in order to use the civilian population as human shields,” it said.
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French President Emmanuel Macron and Russian President Vladimir Putin spoke by phone Monday and agreed to remain in contact in the coming days, but the Élysée Palace and Kremlin provided starkly different accounts of the discussions.
The Élysée Palace issued a statement saying Putin “confirmed his willingness to” 1) stop all attacks against civilians and civilian residences; 2) preserve civilian infrastructure; 3) secure (i.e. not attack) roads, in particular to the south of Kyiv.
The Kremlin statement made no such mention of these things. Instead, it said Putin told Macron that the situation would be resolved only by 1) unconditional recognition of Russian security interests including its sovereignty over Crimea; 2) the demilitarization and denazification of the Ukrainian government; 3) Ukrainian neutrality.
The Kremlin said Putin also told Macron that Russian military forces do not threaten the peaceful residents of Ukraine and are not attacking civilian targets. “The threat comes from Ukrainian nationalists, who are placing weapons in residential buildings in order to use the civilian population as human shields,” it said.
That was completely predictable. I expect the same outcome from the Ukraine-Russian talks occurring in Belarus. But, Zelensky correctly stated, they were obliged to send someone just in case the Russians actually meant it.
We all know, they did not.
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Those Russian "demands" are very likely what they demanded at the "peace talks", I would guess. And yes, there was little hope for those talks. It's good to have an idea what they want.
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guess you must’ve missed when Macron flew to Russia and Putin had him sitting across from him at a ridiculously long 50 ft table at their meeting, or when Putin said something along the lines of US is where the power lies and that’s who he’ll negotiate with.
Putin gave Macron assurances at that meeting he would not be invading Ukraine. Putin invaded Ukraine weeks later. Pretty obvious he doesn’t care about nor respect Macron or France.
I do not believe he’ll live up to his word to Macron here either. It’s the US he wants dialogue with, he could give a shit to talk with Macron, a weak leader of a weak country.
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The Kremlin said Putin also told Macron that Russian military forces do not threaten the peaceful residents of Ukraine and are not attacking civilian targets. “The threat comes from Ukrainian nationalists, who are placing weapons in residential buildings in order to use the civilian population as human shields,” it said.
same lies/crap every aggressor says when they bomb residential areas and kill civilians. Standard operating line for Israel when they bomb the shit out of Gaza.
it would be laughable when countries say this shit if it wasn’t so disgusting.
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Those Russian "demands" are very likely what they demanded at the "peace talks", I would guess. And yes, there was little hope for those talks. It's good to have an idea what they want.
Um, they haven’t exactly been shy about what they want. They’ve been talking about it for 15 years.
Leaked state department cables going back to ‘07 have shown this and predicted what might happen - and turns out those predictions came to pass.
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It’s the US he wants dialogue with, he could give a shit to talk about Macron, a weak leader of a weak country.
This is OPINION, and in my view, OPINION about POLITICAL LEADERS should be avoid here to the extent possible.
In other words, your disdain for Macron is noted, and irrelevant.
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This is OPINION, and in my view, OPINION about POLITICAL LEADERS should be avoid here to the extent possible.
In other words, your disdain for Macron is noted, and irrelevant.
Macron being weak and France being weak is opinion. It’s fact. What power does France have on the world stage? Almost none.
Putin wants to make a deal with the US on NATO. That’s what he’s wanted for 15 years. France is a nothing country. The US is where all the power lies.
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I get a sense you are not taking a hint.
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Moderately amazing that Switzerland has foregone hundreds of years of neutrality and adopted the EU sanctions.
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No need for the US to listen to Putin's bullshitska while his army is in Ukraine.
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This is one of the most awesome videos on the internet:
https://twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1498332884121399307?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498342390440116225%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fkristinarepa%2Fstatus%2F1498342390440116225%3Fs%3D21
Priceless!!!!!
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Moderately amazing that Switzerland has foregone hundreds of years of neutrality and adopted the EU sanctions.
Yeah, I was legit shocked by it. Not a good sign for Putin.
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No need for the US to listen to Putin's bullshitska while his army is in Ukraine.
Agree. Ending the war and total pull out is condition #1 for any deal talks. Obviously.
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Its been reported that Ukraine is releasing its citizens in prison to fight the russians
you cant write this stuff man that would be a cool movie
say hello to my little friends
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Its been reported that Ukraine is releasing its citizens in prison to fight the russians
you cant write this stuff man that would be a cool movie
say hello to my little friends
Omg that’s crazy lol.
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Ukrainian ambassador to the UN hasn't minced the words since the very beginning of the invasion, but this was pointed, even for him:
"If he wants to kill himself, he doesn't need to use a nuclear arsenal. He has to do what the guy in the bunker did in Berlin in May 1945"
https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1498387430843502593?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498387430843502593%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FEuromaidanPress%2Fstatus%2F1498387430843502593%3Fs%3D2026t%3D-dAEH4DzMKpJcrgnYuUQjQ
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Two Russian billionaire oligarchs, Mikhail Fridman and Oleg Deripaska - openly call for peace and for Russia to end the war in Ukraine. Deripaska is said to be very tight with Putin. It's unclear if he still lives in Russia full-time. Fridman, like a lot of Russian oligarchs, lives in London full-time.
Japan, Singapore, and South Korea join the wests sanctions in cutting off Russia from the global financial world. One of Russias biggest imports are cars from Japan and South Korea. They buy more cars from Japan than any country.
Also sounds like Xi Jinping is getting impatient with Putin and wants this to be settled...tells him to negotiate with Ukraine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3r63oTjimE
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What power does France have on the world stage? Almost none.
Nuclear weapons.
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Ukraine saying any foreigners who want to come to Ukraine can come join the fight- they'll have you. All the chickenhawks in US establishment who are desperate to go to war over Ukraine and start WWIII and push the world toward nuclear war- not even any need for that- just take Ukraine up on this call. Fly to Ukraine, contact the government and pick up your free weapons and fight. Adam Kinzinger your ticket is on me pal.
https://twitter.com/richimedhurst/status/1498411948840529930?s=20&t=xdKxLLFLRJJWyK-k1d5dNg
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1498413471821615113?s=20&t=xdKxLLFLRJJWyK-k1d5dNg
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Is there a specific individual "CNN chicken hawk" saying we should get involved militarily?
Anyone I've heard of? I'm sure there are some fairly obscure folks saying this. (I'm curious who on CNN has advocated for this.)
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GOP Rep. Adam Kinzinger calls for U.S.-enforced no-fly zone over Ukraine (theweek.com) (https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-war/1010657/gop-rep-adam-kinzinger-calls-for-us-enforced-no-fly-zone-over-ukraine)
I found one, he's not on CNN generally. Maybe he is a chicken hawk, not very prominent in the news much.
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Nuclear weapons.
this basically just prevents a nation from invasion. it does not make a nation a power on the worlds stage. North Korea has nuclear weapons too- which is probably the primary reason they haven't been invaded and toppled.
France is barely even a regional power in Europe. Germany and UK are both more powerful countries in Europe alone. Germany has the largest economy in Europe, the ECB is headquartered in Germany and Germany has the most influence/sway over the ECB and the EU of any single nation in Europe. Other European nations are bitching about this all of the time. UK also has a larger economy than France and much closer/tighter relationship with the worlds still lone superpower (US) - and London is still one of the handful of financial hubs of the entire world and along with New York City make up the two major financial hubs of the entire Western world.
France has next to zero power on the worlds stage. They are the #3 guy in their own little backyard.
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Over the past few days, there are all kinds of people asking about the US or NATO creating a no-fly zone. Mostly people who really don't like watching Ukrainians die. And the vast majority of them don't understand that it would represent escalation to a shooting war between the US and Russia, which is obviously to be avoided.
I have no idea what a "CNN Chickenhawk" is though.
It it this little guy right here?
(https://i.imgur.com/g9xttlh.png)
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Is there a specific individual "CNN chicken hawk" saying we should get involved militarily?
Anyone I've heard of? I'm sure there are some fairly obscure folks saying this. (I'm curious who on CNN has advocated for this.)
Idk could be wrong, but I think the guy is just referring to all media members who clamor for escalation as CNN chickenhawks.
And there are plenty of people in US establishment media and the US gov't calling for No Fly Zones or declarations of war all over social media. It's a shitshow- as usual.
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I found one, I imagine there are a few more somewhere. I don't think it's a popularly held opinion. And folks of course are free to voice such opinions, just as others can counter them. I bet there are a similar number claiming none of this should concern us, it's not our problem, let them sort it out, no sanctions etc.
I personally don't get too jazzed up about what a handful of fairly unimportant people opine on a topic.
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On social media and in real discussions with actual humans, I've seen quite a few people ask for a "No Fly Zone" and it's obvious they don't understand what that means. Their hearts are in the right place, they really don't want to see continued bombings of Ukrainian cities, they don't want to see the death and destruction that comes along with that. With respect to the folks I've interacted with, they're not intentionally advocating for war, they just don't know any better.
They seem to think we can just declare one and then nobody can fly there. They don't realize it would require enforcement, which would result in air combat, which means a direct shooting war between Russia and whatever forces are attempting to enforce the No Fly Zone.
I suspect they've just heard the term from war movies or spy movies and think it sounds official.
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Zelenskyy has asked Biden to impose a No Fly Zone over Ukraine.
The President's spokeswoman Jen Psaki on a US no-fly zone: "That is definitely escalatory. That is not something the president wants to do."
U.K. Defense Secretary Ben Wallace has also ruled out the idea, saying that "NATO would have to effectively declare war on Russia."
So luckily the people in power are not stupid and don't listen to catcalls for escalation by stupid people who apparently want WWIII to start and for all of us to die.
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Zelenskyy has asked Biden to impose a No Fly Zone over Ukraine.
The President's spokeswoman Jen Psaki on a US no-fly zone: "That is definitely escalatory. That is not something the president wants to do."
U.K. Defense Secretary Ben Wallace has also ruled out the idea, saying that "NATO would have to effectively declare war on Russia."
So luckily the people in power are not stupid and don't listen to catcalls for escalation by stupid people who apparently want WWIII to start and for all of us to die.
Well I mean, Zelenskyy's reasons for asking for one are obvious. Of course he'd ask for one. I don't fault him for the request, in fact he wouldn't be doing his job if he DIDN'T ask for one.
He's doing the appropriate thing, and the US and UK are responding appropriately.
I'm sure there are some war hawks in US government that are itching to get involved, because there are always war hawks in government and that's what war hawks do.
And there are lots of well-meaning but ignorant civilian citizens around the globe that think that we should be doing more to help, and a "No Fly Zone" sounds a lot less kill-y than committing ground troops. Their hearts are in the right place, they just don't understand that "That's not how any of this works."
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On social media and in real discussions with actual humans, I've seen quite a few people ask for a "No Fly Zone" and it's obvious they don't understand what that means. Their hearts are in the right place, they really don't want to see continued bombings of Ukrainian cities, they don't want to see the death and destruction that comes along with that. With respect to the folks I've interacted with, they're not intentionally advocating for war, they just don't know any better.
They seem to think we can just declare one and then nobody can fly there. They don't realize it would require enforcement, which would result in air combat, which means a direct shooting war between the Russia and whatever forces are attempting to enforce the No Fly Zone.
I suspect they've just heard the term from war movies or spy movies and think it sounds official.
I think you're right. A lot of people just don't know what they're talking about. And not only would it involve air combat- we'd probably strike their radar and surface to air missile defenses first - which would be an act of war- and then patrol the skies with fighter jets and potentially shoot down Russian aircraft- another act of war. No Fly Zones = an act of war- and you're right - I don't think many people understand that.
But some know better and are still calling for it. Adam Kizinger as a US politician and former US military veteran certainly knows what a No Fly Zone would entail and he's just been droning on for days about implementing one on twitter.
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Kinzinger doesn't like Trump, and some claim Trump is too sympathetic to Putin's cause, so perhaps Kinzinger is just doing the anti-Trump thing to show he's not Trump, Orange Man Bad, etc. At any rate, I don't view it as very important.
It's a minority position and them some, and no one is really serious about doing such a thing. One person here has suggested we bomb Moscow, probably not seriously, I've heard others say we should keep out of it entirely.
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I think you're right. A lot of people just don't know what they're talking about. And not only would it involve air combat- we'd probably strike their radar and surface to air missile defenses first - which would be an act of war- and then patrol the skies with fighter jets and potentially shoot down Russian aircraft- another act of war. No Fly Zones = an act of war- and you're right - I don't think many people understand that.
But some know better and are still calling for it. Adam Kizinger as a US politician and former US military veteran certainly knows what a No Fly Zone would entail and he's just been droning on for days about implementing one on twitter.
Yeah, you're right for sure-- we'd have to knock out all Russian AA capability, and perform air combat, and likely do all sorts of other war-declaring things that I don't have enough military knowledge to comprehend, in order to establish a no-fly zone. It would be an immediate escalation to war whether we officially declared it or not.
I don't know who Adam Kizinger is and I haven't seen or heard of any of his remarks. Sounds like he's probably just a war hawk in general, and there are plenty more where he came from. Doesn't mean I ever think about them or pay attention to their ramblings.
Fortunately, it seems that the people who matter are making adult decisions. I'm all in favor of that.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMphXPAWUAMp5O_?format=jpg&name=small)
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Fortunately, it seems that the people who matter are making adult decisions. I'm all in favor of that.
Amen to that.
CNN tv show survey of roughly 55,000 people in US polled asked Should NATO go to war for Ukraine? 78% said yes, 22% said no. Are people who watch CNN crazy?
https://www.smerconish.com/survey-question-archive/february-2022
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Amen to that.
CNN tv show survey of roughly 55,000 people in US polled asked Should NATO go to war for Ukraine? 78% said yes, 22% said no. Are people who watch CNN crazy?
https://www.smerconish.com/survey-question-archive/february-2022
I would say most people who watch cable news, are severely under-informed
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I would say most people who watch cable news, are severely under-informed
I think a study was done on this and it suggested that is actually true lol.
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Mitch McConnell wants to hike the defense budget up 5%.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/top-us-senate-republican-calls-biden-5-increase-military-spending-2022-02-28/
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Billionaire hedge fund manager Bill Ackman tweets like 12 crazy tweets in a row calling on President Biden to declare war on Russia immediately. Bet his firm just bought a ton of defense contractor and energy stocks lol.
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so...whole snake island "F YOU RUSSIA BATTLESHIP" thing....officially debunked. also...the rhetoric in the Russian state media...well...it sounds truly terrifying.
https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1498266613002424325?s=20&t=gSm4G7GvBm7ImQfGVi9x_g
https://twitter.com/esaagar/status/1498401713883074561?s=20&t=gSm4G7GvBm7ImQfGVi9x_g
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I would say most people who watch cable news, are severely under-informed
“The man who watches nothing at all is better educated than the man who watches nothing but cable news.”
― Thomas Jefferson
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I have little idea how that smerconish site does their "polls", but it seems independent of CNN watchers, and I suspect their polling techniques are dubious, probably just send in a vote from random people, perhaps voting with bots or whatever else. You don't need 50,000 respondents to run a credible poll, you do need a representative sample.
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“The man who watches nothing at all is better educated than the man who watches nothing but cable news.”
― Thomas Jefferson
I can't believe that song was cut from Hamilton
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I have little idea how that smerconish site does their "polls", but it seems independent of CNN watchers, and I suspect their polling techniques are dubious, probably just send in a vote from random people, perhaps voting with bots or whatever else. You don't need 50,000 respondents to run a credible poll, you do need a representative sample.
not sure how they do, but it's from his CNN show. think it's from CNN's twitter and their website and his website.
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It's not a risk that's worth taking, obviously, but I wonder how crazy Putin really is...
If the UN and the USA issued an ultimatum to Putin
Pull your troops out of Urkraine by Friday at Midnight or some other reasonable time frame, or perhaps even just a ceasefire tomorrow at midnight
if not, we will defend Ukraine with troops and aircraft and missiles and such
would Putin do something truly foolish and take on the West?
It's obviously possible, he could push a button or some other desperate act
or, he could back down
or other leaders in Moscow could take him out of power
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A few thoughts. Most people here probably don't have a very good understanding about what this conflict is about. And it's sure as heck a lot more complicated than (a) this guy is bad; (b) this other guy is good. That said, (a) that guy is bad, and it's not altogether surprising that he's finally pushed hard enough to find at least one limit of what the "west" is willing to overlook. Seems like it was only a matter of time.
However, it's one thing to talk a big game, it's entirely another to go to war with one of the biggest kids on the block. It's one thing to invade Iraq (or even Iran), it's quite another to take on a military/government like Russia's (or, say, China). The scale is vastly different, and yes, nukes and MAD make the calculus completely different. We are very unlikely to get into a direct, NATO vs. Russia, shooting war. Much of what is happening here appears to be Putin testing just how far he can go and get away with it.
War sucks. It seems to be part of the human condition, so it's hard to say it's inhumane, but a lot of innocent people suffer. That's true in every war, no matter the righteousness of the cause.
B-52s are actually used (sometimes) for SEAD (suppression of enemy air defense)--but only when the opponent isn't at the top of the technological ladder. Because of their huge radar signature, the Air Force has (at times) flown them at high altitude to bait the enemy's air defenses to fire at them, thus showing the bad guys' precise location to the fighters carrying the HARMs designed especially to take out air defense sites. I spoke with a B-52 navigator who described watching a SAM, which wasn't supposed to be able to reach his plane's altitude, essentially crest his wing over Kosovo before dropping harmlessly below him. Most SAMs have proximity fuses, so "crest his wing" probably sounds closer than it really was (if it was the way I imagine it, the fuse would have blown and would have damaged the plane). But the Russians have air defense technology that is easily good enough that we wouldn't use B-52s in that role. The rumor I was told by the fighter pilots I knew in the 1990s is that one of the discoveries towards the end of the Soviet era is that we underestimated the Soviet's missile technology by a fair margin. While the pilots all trusted our planes much more than the Russian counterparts, the Russian air-to-air missiles were probably largely better than ours were. (The early sidewinders, Aim-9s (IR), and Aim-7s (radar guided), for instance, kinda sucked. I have no idea about now. Similarly, the main Russian shoulder fired antiaircraft missiles, the SA-7, -14, and -16 were all probably better than their NATO/US counterparts--at least well into the 1980s.)
But equipment only gets you as far as your training/personnel. That seems to be a problem for Russia so far.
One of the surprises about this war, to date, is the apparently low quality of the invasion forces that Russia has deployed. It seems pretty clear that Putin/his military leaders did not expect much resistance from the Ukraine. They also have not followed the more methodical approach that we are used to from the U.S.-led wars of the last three decades, e.g., a sustained air campaign before launching the ground invasion. Maybe their calculation of the politics was that they couldn't go that route. Unquestionably, Russia has a massive advantage over the Ukraine in an air war.
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It's hard to beat someone who doesn't care about his own people.
Anywho, yes, any and all cable news watchers are clueless. They trend very old. They seek out confirmation bias, not news. Duh.
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https://letter.ly/cable-news-viewership-statistics/
33 interesting facts about cable news.
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“The man who watches nothing at all is better educated than the man who watches nothing but cable news.”
― Thomas Jefferson
"Don't believe everything that you read on the internet."
- Abraham Lincoln, 16th President of the United States
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UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The United States announced Monday it is expelling 12 members of the Russian Mission at the United Nations, accusing them of being “intelligence operatives” engaged in espionage.
The Biden administration’s action came on the fifth day of Russia’s invasion of neighboring Ukraine, which has sparked condemnation from the United States and dozens of other countries.
The U.S. Mission to the United Nations said in a statement that the Russian diplomats “have abused their privileges of residency in the United States by engaging in espionage activities that are adverse to our national security.”
The mission said the expulsions have been “in development for several months” and are in accordance with the United States’ agreement with the United Nations as host of the 193-member world body.
Russian Ambassador Vassily Nebenzia told The Associated Press, when asked his reaction to the U.S. saying the Russians were engaged in espionage: “They always do. That’s the pretext all the time when they announce somebody persona non grata. That is the only explanation they give.”
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yeah so basically a lot of stuff we've seen on social media....been debunked now. what's crazy is news outlets/reporters/ukraine gov't officials were retweeting some of this stuff (snake island, ghost of kyiv)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98cXig0hOVw
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yeah so basically a lot of stuff we've seen on social media....been debunked now. what's crazy is news outlets/reporters/ukraine gov't officials were retweeting some of this stuff (snake island, ghost of kyiv)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98cXig0hOVw
Not crazy. You certainly can’t be surprised that social media is pumping out falsehoods and propaganda?
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Pat Robertson coming out of retirement for one last end of days prediction. A death bed hail Mary that he won't get literally everything he ever said wrong
https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1498410764113256455?t=6tTnD2h3KZdFmZmfrBh_sw&s=19
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That guy is stone cold fuck nuts.......he was old as shit when I was 5.
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Not crazy. You certainly can’t be surprised that social media is pumping out falsehoods and propaganda?
true. lmao.
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That guy is stone cold fuck nuts.......he was old as shit when I was 5.
stone cold fuck nuts are the perfect words to describe him.
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GOP Rep. Adam Kinzinger calls for U.S.-enforced no-fly zone over Ukraine (theweek.com) (https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-war/1010657/gop-rep-adam-kinzinger-calls-for-us-enforced-no-fly-zone-over-ukraine)
I found one, he's not on CNN generally. Maybe he is a chicken hawk, not very prominent in the news much.
He's so prominent that the Illinois legislature drew him out of a district when they lost a US house seat in 2020.
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I thought Pat Robertson was dead.
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yeah so basically a lot of stuff we've seen on social media....been debunked now. what's crazy is news outlets/reporters/ukraine gov't officials were retweeting some of this stuff (snake island, ghost of kyiv)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98cXig0hOVw
There is also a focused Russian disiinformation campaign to paint it ALL as false, which is of course, false.
Plenty of the videos-- you know the ones where the Russians are engaged in war-crimes bombing civilian areas-- have been verified through geolocation and time-stamping.
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I thought Pat Robertson was dead.
(https://c.tenor.com/6ebsIeybs20AAAAC/miracle-max-princess-bride.gif)
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He is that makes it just that much more amazing - Zombies aren't bullshit.
And we thought Putin was bad, now we gotta deal with Zombies???
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I thought Pat Robertson was dead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh8mNjeuyV4
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I think folks here view reportage os such events with a jaundiced eye, if there is such a thing. Or liver, whatever.
We know ahead of time that early reporting from war zones is rife with error, mistakes, propaganda, etc.
A wise man believes half of what he hears, a genius knows which half.
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I think folks here view reportage os such events with a jaundiced eye, if there is such a thing. Or liver, whatever.
We know ahead of time that early reporting from war zones is rife with error, mistakes, propaganda, etc.
A wise man believes half of what he hears, a genius knows which half.
Absolutely.
At the same time, this is the first war where smart phones and social media have been present in such force, and we're getting real-time views of what's happening in numerous regions simultaneously.
Some will be garbage, some will be evidence. It's fascinating and horrifying to watch it play out in real time.
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Photography was a new thing in the US Civil War (it was used in the Crimean war as well). The images were horrifying back then to the people, it brought it home, though many of the photographs were completely staged.
It's very hard to imagine the conditions of that war, most of the deaths were due to disease.
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https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1498609056910561286?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498609056910561286%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Freuters%2Fstatus%2F1498609056910561286%3Fs%3D21
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I wonder if they'll try sticking nukes in Cuba again or maybe Venezuela. I seem to remember hints to that effect from the Kremlin recently.
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I wonder if they'll try sticking nukes in Cuba again or maybe Venezuela. I seem to remember hints to that effect from the Kremlin recently.
That would avail them minimally with today's technology. My fear used to be they sneak a missile boat to a few hundred miles of DC and launch supersonic cruise missiles at the WH and decapitate our leadership. Any first strike would be directed primarily at command and control.
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That would avail them minimally with today's technology. My fear used to be they sneak a missile boat to a few hundred miles of DC and launch supersonic cruise missiles at the WH and decapitate our leadership. Any first strike would be directed primarily at command and control.
I think if they wanted to decimate our leadership, they'd have to hit the State Department and Pentagon.
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Sure, a decent sized nuke on the WH would pretty much take out most of that, and they would launch several missiles of course, and hit Andrews AFB.
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That would avail them minimally with today's technology. My fear used to be they sneak a missile boat to a few hundred miles of DC and launch supersonic cruise missiles at the WH and decapitate our leadership. Any first strike would be directed primarily at command and control.
wasnt there a tv show about this exact thing?
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I wonder if they'll try sticking nukes in Cuba again or maybe Venezuela. I seem to remember hints to that effect from the Kremlin recently.
come to think of it, if he wanted to stop NATO expansion to his borders, forming a hostile military alliance with Cuba and Venezuela and putting nukes in their borders might've been his best bet to do just that. There is no doubt the US would freak the f**k out over this and try to negotiate to remove those nukes and dissolve said alliance. US does NOT like it when they get a taste of their own medicine. And US was never going to just stop NATO expansion or meddling in the affairs of Ukraine and picking it off from Russia's sphere of influence and bringing it into the US's- unless something caused them to. In case people haven't noticed, the US does whatever the f**k it wants on the worlds stage, regardless of what any other countries concerns or objections are.
More I think about this, the more I think this is probably the exact outcome that US planners at the highest level wanted. If you wanted to push Russia out of Europe, ostracize them and ensure US hegemony of Europe and get rid of a Russia that was gaining influence via EU energy dependence, well you couldn't have done a better job over the last decade or so needling them and then ask for a better outcome. Finland and Sweden are now talking about possibly joining NATO. Every NATO country is now stating their intentions to get serious on defense spending. 11 (including the US) were at the 2% of GDP threshold, while most were around 1.4 to 1.5% with a 3-4 being pathetically low. Germany has stated it's intention to get serious on defense spending effectively immediately. Germany has also stated it's intention to build LNG infrastructure and import more LNG. US happens to be the power in NATO. US happens to be the worlds largest exporter of weapons in the entire world. US also happens to be the worlds largest exporter of LNG in the entire world.
I feel terrible for the people of Ukraine and what's going on. Putin badly misjudged and miscalculated the entire situation. Think it's pretty clear that this was not rational, at all. It's not rational imo- bc they do not view Ukraine rationally as a meaningless pawn on the chessboard like the US does- they view Ukraine as existential to their existence- they view having it in their orbit/sphere of influence, having it as a buffer state to the West and ensuring it's never part of NATO as part of their vital national security interests- and it's not just Putin that has that view- many in the Russian government have that view. Putin has been talking about NATO expansion/Ukraine since the early 2000s, probably most notably at his speech in Munich in 2007. And thanks to WikiLeaks we have troves of leaked classified US state department cables all the way back from 2006 in which US ambassadors and diplomats on the ground have said the same thing- and they predicted back then exactly what happened in 2014 and what is happening right now.
The US played it's naive client government in Kyiv like a fiddle. Dangled NATO membership that they were never going to give them over there head, flooded them with lethal arms and encouraged them to get tough with Russia instead of try to make peace- knowing full well if sh*t hit the fan- we weren't going to actually get involved. Mearsheimer called it 7 years ago- he said the US was leading Ukraine on a path to get wrecked by their much stronger neighbor- and that the US isn't going to ever allow them into NATO which would give them an Article V defense guarantee and that the US wasn't going to send in troops or implement a no fly zone or declare war on Russia if Russia decided to invade Ukraine. Guy was a prophet. No one listened to him.
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wasnt there a tv show about this exact thing?
not sure on a tv show, but there was a pretty good movie where bunch of North Koreans I think took the white house and captured the president. Gerard Butler from 300 movie was in it. Forgetting the name. They made a bunch of sequels after that weren't any good, but the first one was pretty well done.
Air Force with Harrison Ford probably my all-time favorite- President gets captured by terrorist movie.
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That would avail them minimally with today's technology.
what do you mean by this?
I know missile defense systems are basically worthless vs ICBM's. Unless there has been rapid acceleration in the technology over the last couple years that I'm not aware of, but haven't been paying too much attention. Not sure how they fare vs other types of ballistic missiles.
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Russian state media is telling residents of Kyiv to leave their homes to avoid impending attacks. Not sure where a couple million people could go or if NATO will stand by and let the Russians reduce the city to rubble. Putin may get his wider war.
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Russian state media is telling residents of Kyiv to leave their homes to avoid impending attacks. Not sure where a couple million people could go or if NATO will stand by and let the Russians reduce the city to rubble. Putin may get his wider war.
NATO/US is not getting involved here. Biden thankfully has been very firm and resounding of that the past 24-48 hours. He's strongly said he's committed to US staying out. The risks of WWIII breaking out and nuclear escalation are far too great if US gets involved. I've been a critic of Biden's, but if we can end this tragedy/crisis/mess - and do it without US getting involved and WWIII starting- he'll have won me over simply by the fact that would mean he had a hand in preserving the species. WWIII goes live and nuclear exchanges happen- life and the world as we know it is done. It would be apocalypse. Yeah, no thanks.
Unfortunately they will have to do what every people do in war....run, get out, best they can. It's just another evil part of war and one of the many things that make war so disgusting, awful, terrible, there are no adjectives.
US helped create millions of refugees in Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Afghanistan. You hardly ever heard anyone giving a flying f**k about any of them. I find it odd that now that it's white European people being attacked, suddenly war is condemned and lives matter to the Western world. Why isn't it always so?
It's super sad situation, but yeah....not willing to go start WWIII which would dramatically increase the risks of nuclear exchange- over it. No one should be willing to do that. Only an insane person would be willing to go that route.
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Photography was a new thing in the US Civil War (it was used in the Crimean war as well). The images were horrifying back then to the people, it brought it home, though many of the photographs were completely staged.
It's very hard to imagine the conditions of that war, most of the deaths were due to disease.
I remember when the Gulf War broke out, it was a big deal getting live footage from reporters in Baghdad showing the explosions of bombing raids on the horizon, at night. The US was also releasing on-board camera footage of smart bombs hitting buildings. Now, almost anyone can post video or livestream combat.
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I remember when the Gulf War broke out, it was a big deal getting live footage from reporters in Baghdad showing the explosions of bombing raids on the horizon, at night. The US was also releasing on-board camera footage of smart bombs hitting buildings. Now, almost anyone can post video or livestream combat.
Yeah, and it’s pretty disgusting because they only show our weapons being launched or explosions. Footage on the news never shows the carnage and death and devastation and destruction those weapons cause. Still remember Brian Williams nutting in his pants talking about the beauty of our weapons after missiles were launched - missiles that were on their way to kill human beings.
I think they should ban showing the explosions and real life action movie porn and only show the death and devastation and carnage. But hey, that’s just me.
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This didn't take long.
https://twitter.com/IntelDoge/status/1498711607060410377?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498711607060410377%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FIntelDoge%2Fstatus%2F1498711607060410377
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Russia has warned NATO again today about missile bases in the former Soviet bloc nations of Poland and Romania. Putin has just flushed over 30 years of detente, glastnost, and semi-normal relations. And the West has just cratered Russia's economy. I hope there is no next.
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Russia has warned NATO again today about missile bases in the former Soviet bloc nations of Poland and Romania. Putin has just flushed over 30 years of detente, glastnost, and semi-normal relations. And the West has just cratered Russia's economy. I hope there is no next.
US relations with Russia have been in the toilet and deteriorating since the mid 2000's. Largely because the US has refused to negotiate/listen to Russia regarding valid Russian national interest/security concerns for nearly 20 years. Relations started going south fast under Bush II- who will go down in history one day as maybe the worst President the United States has ever had.
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Russia has warned NATO again today about missile bases in the former Soviet bloc nations of Poland and Romania. Putin has just flushed over 30 years of detente, glastnost, and semi-normal relations. And the West has just cratered Russia's economy. I hope there is no next.
I dont see any real need for ICBM bases in Poland and Romania and would be willing to not put them there in a negotiation
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I dont see any real need for ICBM bases in Poland and Romania and would be willing to not put them there in a negotiation
there are defensive missile systems in Poland and Romania. Largely to the objection of the local people who live in the towns where these bases are near, I might add.
The systems supposedly aren't equipped to strike offensively, rather they are intended to destroy incoming missiles. We don't know for certain, because media/outside observes are not allowed in. But those systems could easily be retooled to launch offensive missiles.
Dirty little secret of missile defense systems....they don't work. US has spent hundreds of billions of dollars on these systems, and none of them actually work effectively.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-faulty-and-dangerous-logic-of-missile-defense/
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I dont see any real need for ICBM bases in Poland and Romania and would be willing to not put them there in a negotiation
They're ABMs meant to defend Europe and US from Iranian ICBMs.
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Russia is holding missile drills again today. Not so sure having much of the US leadership in one place for Biden's SOTU speech tonight is a good idea. Putin is acting like a cornered rat.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russia-holds-drills-nuclear-subs-land-based-missiles-83180974 (https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russia-holds-drills-nuclear-subs-land-based-missiles-83180974)
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They're ABMs.
right, and we used to have a treaty against them. Bush II ripped that treaty to shreds in 2002 and the US has poured countless billions into these systems since and they are largely ineffective. Oh and they could be reconfigured with ease to launch ballistic missiles, so there's that.
We can call them "anti" ballistic missiles all we want, but nothing anti about them. Ripping up an arms control treaty that had proved foundational to world stability for 30 years and going full stop towards dumping hundreds of billions into ABMs that largely don't work has escalated the probability of war and has lead to an arms race build-up.
https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/12/13/u.s.-exit-from-anti-ballistic-missile-treaty-has-fueled-new-arms-race-pub-85977
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Russia is holding missile drills again today. Not so sure having much of the US leadership in one place for Biden's SOTU speech tonight is a good idea. Putin is acting like a cornered rat.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russia-holds-drills-nuclear-subs-land-based-missiles-83180974 (https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russia-holds-drills-nuclear-subs-land-based-missiles-83180974)
Jesus the paranoia here is at an all-time high. So Putin is going to nuke DC tonight, eh?
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LOL. Better duck and cover. You're likely too young to ever have learned that but you can find instructions online while we still have an internet:
https://www.history.com/news/duck-cover-drills-cold-war-arms-race (https://www.history.com/news/duck-cover-drills-cold-war-arms-race)
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LOL. Better duck and cover. You're like to young to ever have learned that but I'm sure you can find instructions online while we still have an internet.
Biden admin just released it's new guidelines. Says we've got to social distance while the nuclear blasts go off.
On a serious note, Putin nuking DC would mean the end of the entire world. Is anyone really that crazy? I'd like to think not.
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An ABM can't be somehow "retooled" to make an offensive weapon. The notion is silly, we have intermediate range ballistic missiles that we can build and deploy as needed, no need to somehow jury rig an ABM. An ABM is designed with short range and very fast acceleration for obvious reasons. The rocket motor is specific for that purpose. And of course the warhead is designed to intercept an incoming unarmored missile, some are designed to try and hit a bullet with a bullet.
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An ABM can't be somehow "retooled" to make an offensive weapon. The notion is silly, we have intermediate range ballistic missiles that we can build and deploy as needed, no need to somehow jury rig an ABM. An ABM is designed with short range and very fast acceleration for obvious reasons. The rocket motor is specific for that purpose. And of course the warhead is designed to intercept an incoming unarmored missile, some are designed to try and hit a bullet with a bullet.
ABMs don't really work that well.
And the MK 41 launchers installed in Poland and Romania, can be retooled to launch offensive weapons.
from NY Times...
Missile defense has long been viewed by Russia as a dangerous American attempt to degrade the main guarantor of its great power status — a vast nuclear arsenal. The possibility that the United States could shoot down Russian ballistic missiles undermines the deterrent doctrine of mutually assured destruction, which posits that neither of the two biggest nuclear powers would ever risk a nuclear war because it would mean both get annihilated.
During the Cold War, Russia and the United States both worked on developing antimissile defenses, but agreed in 1972 to abandon their rocket shield programs so as to preserve mutual vulnerability and, they hoped, peace.
“In addition, the site lacks the software, the hardware and infrastructure needed to launch offensive missiles,” NATO said.
Some independent experts, however, believe that while requiring a rejiggering of software and other changes, the MK 41 launchers installed in Poland and Romania can fire not only defensive interceptors but also offensive missiles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_41_Vertical_Launching_System
MK 41 is just a launching system....seems to me it can be tooled to launch missiles that hit targets and explode too...
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An ABM can't be somehow "retooled" to make an offensive weapon. The notion is silly, we have intermediate range ballistic missiles that we can build and deploy as needed, no need to somehow jury rig an ABM. An ABM is designed with short range and very fast acceleration for obvious reasons. The rocket motor is specific for that purpose. And of course the warhead is designed to intercept an incoming unarmored missile, some are designed to try and hit a bullet with a bullet.
I think the Russian's primary bitch is that the ABMs could be used against their nuclear deterrent. Which isn't the case, unless they launch their missiles near Iran.
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I think the Russian's primary bitch is that the ABMs could be used against their nuclear deterrent. Which isn't the case, unless they launch their missiles near Iran.
probably biggest gripe is that in theory is that ABMs eliminate MAD. But the MK 41 launchers in Poland and Romania could be retooled to launch offensive missiles. Pretty easily.
Dirty little secret of course is that ABMs do not work all that well.
Seems to me Bush II should've never ripped up that treaty in 2002. All it's done is create a new arms race and escalate tensions.
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I think the Russian's primary bitch is that the ABMs could be used against their nuclear deterrent. Which isn't the case, unless they launch their missiles near Iran.
It is their beef, and they could intercept incoming Russian missiles, but not many of them. ABMs are in principle destabilizing, IF they actually work well enough.
This is why we had an ABM Treaty long ago limiting deployments, but I think both sides realized they didn't work very well. We have some now on ships that are reasonably effective against some types of incoming. The Israelis have "Iron Dome" which works fairly well against short range missiles.
The Vice President usually is not present for a SOTU message.
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This is why we had an ABM Treaty long ago limiting deployments, but I think both sides realized they didn't work very well. We have some now on ships that are reasonably effective against some types of incoming. The Israelis have "Iron Dome" which works fairly well against short range missiles.
it's true that ABM's don't work very well, but both sides did not rip up the treaty, one side did. And since ripping up that treaty one side has dumped who knows how many billions into trying to build advanced ABM systems. And all it's done is lead to military buildups and escalated tensions.
As far as the ABMs MK 41 launchers in Poland and Romania, did little bit more reading on this- turns out all they'd need to launch offensive missiles are software and hardware updates to the launching systems. So I think Russia's concerns there are probably valid, as is their reluctance to accept the US's standard operating "just trust us" line.
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They would need different rocket motors, different warheads, and different software, so, yeah.
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They would need different rocket motors, different warheads, and different software, so, yeah.
yeah, but the launching systems are already there....which means they could theoretically be upgraded at any time. so Russia being very suspicious of that and refusing to just take the US's word of "just trust us, these are defensive, they'll never be offensive" - I mean I can see why they wouldn't just accept that at face value. I mean, I can't say I blame them. I think it's a legitimate gripe.
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RIM-161 Standard Missile 3 - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-161_Standard_Missile_3)
This is the actual missile being deployed as "Aegis Ashore" in Europe and Japan. They are kinetic energy kill missiles with no warhead.
Converting this to some ground based IrBM would be absurd. They are mostly used to protect the Fleet.
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What a Russian soldier's text home says about Ukraine's information war (taskandpurpose.com) (https://taskandpurpose.com/news/ukraine-russia-information-war/?utm_campaign=trueanthem_manual&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3sXgjPqJmoonv1TJucjkCPNBdcunifL9Gigd25XnPrebJ3g4pHW8pRY7w)
Could be authentic, or not of course.
According to the translation at the UN, the soldier’s mother asked if he was in training exercises and why it had been so long since he’d responded. When the soldier said he wasn’t in Crimea, his mother asked where he was. “Mom,” the soldier allegedly texted back. “I’m in Ukraine.”
“There is a real war raging here. I am afraid,” the soldier’s text said, according to the UN translation. “We are bombing all of the cities, together. Even targeting civilians. We were told that they would welcome us and they are falling under our armored vehicles, throwing themselves under the wheels and not allowing us to pass. They call us fascists, Mama, this is so hard.”
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This thread is about current events related to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Content not related will be deleted. Thanks in advance.
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op-ed written by a professor in the Department of Intelligence and Security Studies at The Citadel - pretty remarkable read.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-02-25/ukraine-cia-insurgents-russia-invasion
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Not sure Mexico not putting sanctions on Russia really matters at this point, when virtually the entire West already has. I do agree with the guy though that the push to censorship of Russian state-sponsored media, probably not a good idea. If you're supposedly free and open democracies with freedom of the press - then censorship is something you should be against, not for.
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1498752705791205379?s=20&t=DokJptRiID-6OKzKJ9bcbg
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not sure on a tv show, but there was a pretty good movie where bunch of North Koreans I think took the white house and captured the president. Gerard Butler from 300 movie was in it. Forgetting the name. They made a bunch of sequels after that weren't any good, but the first one was pretty well done.
Air Force with Harrison Ford probably my all-time favorite- President gets captured by terrorist movie.
Designated Survivor (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5296406/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_5)
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Olympus Has Fallen - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympus_Has_Fallen)
The long Russian convoy appears to have stalled, for reasons unclear.
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Not sure Mexico not putting sanctions on Russia really matters at this point, when virtually the entire West already has. I do agree with the guy though that the push to censorship of Russian state-sponsored media, probably not a good idea. If you're supposedly free and open democracies with freedom of the press - then censorship is something you should be against, not for.
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1498752705791205379?s=20&t=DokJptRiID-6OKzKJ9bcbg
man thats depressing
think of all the tacos they could withhold from russia
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Olympus Has Fallen - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympus_Has_Fallen)
The long Russian convoy appears to have stalled, for reasons unclear.
they are running out of gas
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The however long convoy has been approaching Kyiv for weeks now, it seems. It's all in the news, and yet, something is not right here. The tail end appears to be heavy trucks (supplies). And it is indeed all strung out on one road, from what we can see on line. If they want to take the city, they need to surround it and cut off supplies etc. and basically besiege it. The alternative is to try what the Americans did with Baghdad, but I don't think that will work here.
It would be nice to understand what is happening at the head of said convoy. Is it a combat heavy front end? Or just supplies? Are they in tactical formations? Or in line?
Tracked vehicles can go cross country obviously, and should in such cases. I just don't understand something, maybe the reportage is wrong.
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I saw one report that both fuel and food are in short supply for that convoy which makes no sense unless Ukraine has somehow caused this
but youre right something is out of wack with its progress
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You'd think the Russians would have some experience with queueing in line. They did it for bread for a couple generations.
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The however long convoy has been approaching Kyiv for weeks now, it seems. It's all in the news, and yet, something is not right here. The tail end appears to be heavy trucks (supplies). And it is indeed all strung out on one road, from what we can see on line. If they want to take the city, they need to surround it and cut off supplies etc. and basically besiege it. The alternative is to try what the Americans did with Baghdad, but I don't think that will work here.
It would be nice to understand what is happening at the head of said convoy. Is it a combat heavy front end? Or just supplies? Are they in tactical formations? Or in line?
Tracked vehicles can go cross country obviously, and should in such cases. I just don't understand something, maybe the reportage is wrong.
They have difficulty in the mud, which is another reason people are questioning the sanity of the timing of this offensive maneuver. They've missed the window where the ground is completely frozen which would have made offroad driving easy for most vehicles, and now the ground is thawing. There are several photos on the internet over the past couple of days, of Russian tracked vehicles stuck and abandoned in the Ukrainian mud.
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I saw one report that both fuel and food are in short supply for that convoy which makes no sense unless Ukraine has somehow caused this
but youre right something is out of wack with its progress
Right, lack of fuel doesn't add up. This 40 mile convoy was fully readied in Belarus, whose border is 60 to 90 miles to the north of Kyiv depending on the crossings Russian Forces entered.
With that said, before the convoy stalled, how close is it now to Kyiv?
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man thats depressing
think of all the tacos they could withhold from russia
yeah, but tacos are only good fresh! not frozen.
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Olympus Has Fallen - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympus_Has_Fallen)
The long Russian convoy appears to have stalled, for reasons unclear.
yes! that's it. I really liked that movie. even if it was kinda ridiculous and over the top.
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The sat photos show snippets of vehicles lined up on a road, a long line, and that was reported a couple days ago as a major threat to Kyiv. What the heck is going on? If it's a supply convoy, it's not going to be short of food or fuel. It's not in any tactical formation. I just don't get it.
Incidentally, in WW Two, the southern German offensive in 1941 (before we entered the war) was stopped before Kiev as well. Hitler got rather annoyed (duh) and order Guderian who was 200 miles north around Smolensk to head south to take Kiev from the rear. Guderian wanted to head for Moscow, he blames this decision for the war being lost in his book. (I disagree.)
They did manage to take Kiev and went further east all the way to Rostov, and Guderian went back to try and take Moscow late that year, but rain and then cold set in, and many of his tanks were in need of major repair. Tanks don't do well traveling on their own for many miles.
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Speaking of tacos, I'm making carnitas for dinner tonight. Oh, yeah.
Even if Mexico decided to sanction me and withhold tacos, I'd be a'ight.
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Not sure Mexico not putting sanctions on Russia really matters at this point, when virtually the entire West already has. I do agree with the guy though that the push to censorship of Russian state-sponsored media, probably not a good idea. If you're supposedly free and open democracies with freedom of the press - then censorship is something you should be against, not for.
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1498752705791205379?s=20&t=DokJptRiID-6OKzKJ9bcbg
is us and west govs forcing netflix and whatnot to drop russian tv? if not, privately held companies deciding to not carrying a channel is not an act against of freedom of the press.
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is us and west govs forcing netflix and whatnot to drop russian tv? if not, privately held companies deciding to not carrying a channel is not an act against of freedom of the press.
Netflix didn't drop any Russian state TV channels, they refused to add them, despite a Russian mandate telling them to do so.
I'd assume Russia will then block Netflix within its borders, and I'd imagine Netflix is fine with that.
https://variety.com/2022/tv/global/netflix-russian-propaganda-channels-1235192082/
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is us and west govs forcing netflix and whatnot to drop russian tv? if not, privately held companies deciding to not carrying a channel is not an act against of freedom of the press.
did not say it's an act against the freedom of press by government - but it clearly is censorship. and I'd say my negative reaction to it is more of a principle thing.
Not sure it hurts anyones bottom line, which is probably why these companies did it- PR move for them without hurting their bottom line- as I doubt very much they generate much revenue from Russian state-media in Europe and the US. Let's be honest, how many eye balls/clicks they really getting? Probably not much. PR stunt if you ask me.
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Netflix didn't drop any Russian state TV channels, they refused to add them, despite a Russian mandate telling them to do so.
I'd assume Russia will then block Netflix within its borders, and I'd imagine Netflix is fine with that.
https://variety.com/2022/tv/global/netflix-russian-propaganda-channels-1235192082/
this is actually really good move on Netflix's part. I wish other US companies would do similar and standup to China for once.
Governments should not be forcing private companies to carry government owned tv stations.
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Speaking of tacos, I'm making carnitas for dinner tonight. Oh, yeah.
Even if Mexico decided to sanction me and withhold tacos, I'd be a'ight.
I thought posts not related to the current invasion of Ukraine by Russia would be deleted. :57:
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I thought posts not related to the current invasion of Ukraine by Russia would be deleted. :57:
That's why I added the bit about being sanctioned by Mexico. They're not sanctioning me, or Russia.
Politically I'm not aligned with that, but functionally I'm happy I could still go to Mexico and get some delicious tacos if I wanted them.
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Russian Oligarch billionaire Roman Abramovich - is considering selling the Chelsea Football Club in the UK. He's owned the team since 2003 and is a close Putin ally. Abramovich lives in London, and owns a 500+ ft mega-yacht that has a missile defense system on it.
https://twitter.com/brfootball/status/1498722325591695368?s=20&t=jzPKofHSEzHoQZcHkxheiQ
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https://twitter.com/SoberLook/status/1498602991665954818?s=20&t=N46aL6-DrxPg66JAxxM01Q
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I wonder what kind of discount potential buyers will demand? Regardless, I suppose it's better sold than seized. I do wonder how that transaction works, though, when the oligarchs are being frozen out of making transactions in dollars, euros, pounds, and yen.
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https://twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1498760657474367491?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498760657474367491%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fphildstewart%2Fstatus%2F1498760657474367491%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1498760657474367491257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es1_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16%2Ftopics%2F3274372%2F169
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The population of Ukraine is 44 million as of 2020
so if 75% either leaves or does not fight that still leaves 11 million folks vs estimated Russian strength of not over 2 million
the Russians better pack a lunch cause this might take a while
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I wonder what kind of discount potential buyers will demand? Regardless, I suppose it's better sold than seized. I do wonder how that transaction works, though, when the oligarchs are being frozen out of making transactions in dollars, euros, pounds, and yen.
well that's a premo trophy asset for billionaires with huge egos in Europe, kinda like billionaires with huge egos in the US are hard up to buy an NFL team and more than willing to overpay for them- someone will probably overpay. I think. My guess here is there will be no discounts given and might even get a premium.
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The population of Ukraine is 44 million as of 2020
so if 75% either leaves or does not fight that still leaves 11 million folks vs estimated Russian strength of not over 2 million
the Russians better pack a lunch cause this might take a while
they'll never be able to occupy and hold the country.
Russia going to have to kill off the gov't and install friendlies or keep hammering away until there's a peace agreement.
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well that's a premo trophy asset for billionaires with huge egos in Europe, kinda like billionaires with huge egos in the US are hard up to buy an NFL team and more than willing to overpay for them- someone will probably overpay. I think. My guess here is there will be no discounts given and might even get a premium.
Hard to pay a premium when you're not going to be allowed to spend dollars, euros, pounds, or yen. I guess perhaps he'd accept Chinese money but I don't know if UK will allow that, either.
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they'll never be able to occupy and hold the country.
Russia going to have to kill off the gov't and install friendlies or keep hammering away until there's a peace agreement.
which favors Ukraine cause the longer this goes on the higher the probability that Putin either gets wacked or replaced
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Hard to pay a premium when you're not going to be allowed to spend dollars, euros, pounds, or yen. I guess perhaps he'd accept Chinese money but I don't know if UK will allow that, either.
Bitcoin baby! Lol.
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Bitcoin baby! Lol.
Could be...
Honestly I don't see how he can sell it at all. Kinda defeats the purpose of "freezing" an asset, if you allow the owner to benefit in any way from the sale. He can probably hide the sale of some yachts and dachas here and there, things he's purchased through shell companies. But you can't really hide the sale of Chelsea FC from the British government.
And no buyer would risk the money if the government calls into question the legitimacy of the sale.
I'd say that any news of "selling" Chelsea is wishful thinking on ol' Romie's part.
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Could be...
Honestly I don't see how he can sell it at all. Kinda defeats the purpose of "freezing" an asset, if you allow the owner to benefit in any way from the sale. He can probably hide the sale of some yachts and dachas here and there, things he's purchased through shell companies. But you can't really hide the sale of Chelsea FC from the British government.
And no buyer would risk the money if the government calls into question the legitimacy of the sale.
I'd say that any news of "selling" Chelsea is wishful thinking on ol' Romie's part.
don't rule out exceptions, UK gov't might allow him to sell just because they want someone else to own it.
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or the longer this goes on the more Ukrainians die and the more the country gets wrecked. could see it turn into a failed state like Syria or Libya if it goes on for years.
take it from her....she's got expert experience in this...
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1498658078232920069?s=20&t=l4UI7jTmPq8a_5bZzSLMnQ
no way Russia could allow this to go on for years in fact at the present rate even 1 month seems unlikely
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no way Russia could allow this to go on for years in fact at the present rate even 1 month seems unlikely
hope you're right.
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no way Russia could allow this to go on for years in fact at the present rate even 1 month seems unlikely
The market despot can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent Ukraine can stand...
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The market despot can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent Ukraine can stand...
if allowed to
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if allowed to
True... A fish can only swim against the school for so long... But a fish who is known for poisoning opponents with polonium-210 generally gets a wider berth than most.
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Apple stopping all sales in Russia and all shipments to Russia.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-says-it-has-stopped-all-product-sales-in-russia-11646169327?mod=e2tw
It's a good PR move but realistically, it's not like they'll be able to convert any sales in Russia into realized gains in the USA anyway, while monetary sanctions are in place.
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Apple stopping all sales in Russia and all shipments to Russia.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-says-it-has-stopped-all-product-sales-in-russia-11646169327?mod=e2tw
It's a good PR move but realistically, it's not like they'll be able to convert any sales in Russia into realized gains in the USA anyway, while monetary sanctions are in place.
mildly surprised thrers no pushback from China
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if allowed to
US getting involved leads to WWIII and nuclear exchange. US ain’t getting involved. US lead Ukraine down this path knowing full well they weren’t going to defend them if Russia invaded.
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US getting involved leads to WWIII and nuclear exchange. US ain’t getting involved. US lead Ukraine down this path knowing full well they weren’t going to defend them if Russia invaded.
I wasnt talking about US involvement
I was thinking of more of a Ford Theater approach
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mildly surprised thrers no pushback from China
I'm not sure I understand-- why would China object to Apple curtailing sales in Russia?
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I wasnt talking about US involvement
I was thinking of more of a Ford Theater approach
Outside of that how was the invasion Mrs Putin?
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I'm not sure I understand-- why would China object to Apple curtailing sales in Russia?
If I had to guess it’s bc all of the parts that go into and the subcontractors that actually build Apple’s devices are made in China by slaves (not literal, but not far from) by either wholly owned state backed companies or state backed JV’s.
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I'm not sure I understand-- why would China object to Apple curtailing sales in Russia?
I was thinking that Apple and China do quite a bit of business with each other
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Apple’s new Mac Pro to be made in Texas - Apple (https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/09/apples-new-mac-pro-to-be-made-in-texas/)
I'm still confused by the "news" from Ukraine. We all understand the reports are going to be muddled and incorrect and faulty and wrong, mixed in with some truth here and there, but it remains confusing, to me. And repetitive, the news today looks like that from yesterday and the day before.
Maybe it's all a red pill kind of thing, and we've always been at war with Oceana.
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If I had to guess it’s bc all of the parts that go into and the subcontractors that actually build Apple’s devices are made in China by slaves (not literal, but not far from) by either wholly owned state backed companies or state backed JV’s.
Sure but that's true across the board, for every electronics and computer manufacturer including the very large one that I work for, so if Apple doesn't sell it to them, then someone else that is also supplied by China will. And on top of that:
1) Russia is a small part of the global market for these devices
2) The capability of Chinese manufacturing to keep up with global demand is far, far behind. It will take 6-12 months just to flush global backlog of what's already been sold. Loss of some sales destined for a a small portion of the market today, is nonexistent, and in 12 months, it'll still be negligible.
Arguably this might actually be good for sellers (and their suppliers), allowing manufacturers to focus allocations on more profitable market segments for the time being. The Russian market isn't a very wealthy one.
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I was thinking that Apple and China do quite a bit of business with each other
They do, but Russia is just one small customer in that large global ecosystem. And Android outsells Apple by about 3-1 in Russia anyway.
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Russian Oligarch billionaire Roman Abramovich - is considering selling the Chelsea Football Club in the UK. He's owned the team since 2003 and is a close Putin ally. Abramovich lives in London, and owns a 500+ ft mega-yacht that has a missile defense system on it.
Shouldn't someone whose yacht has a missile defense system just be arrested and erased based purely on that?
It's evident their money wasn't accumulated by legal means....
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Shouldn't someone whose yacht has a missile defense system just be arrested and erased based purely on that?
It's evident their money wasn't accumulated by legal means....
Arrested by who, with what authority, and on what charge under what legal code?
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Bipartisan calls grow for end to Russian oil imports | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/596394-bipartisan-calls-grow-for-end-to-russian-oil-imports)
Well, this would be nice, in time, but I don't quite see how we can switch to "clean energy" to replace oil any time soon.
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Bipartisan calls grow for end to Russian oil imports | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/596394-bipartisan-calls-grow-for-end-to-russian-oil-imports)
Well, this would be nice, in time, but I don't quite see how we can switch to "clean energy" to replace oil any time soon.
Well if the sun would just get sunnier and the wind would just get windier, we'd all be fine.
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Arrested by who, with what authority, and on what charge under what legal code?
as long as he stays clear of Canada hes ok
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Sure, if we all drove EVs. But we don't, some of us even have large Diesel things we use to tow stuff.
We can't replace oil in months, or even a few years.
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Apple’s new Mac Pro to be made in Texas - Apple (https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/09/apples-new-mac-pro-to-be-made-in-texas/)
That’s awesome that Apple is actually going to build something in the US.
But it also happens to be their most expensive device which also happens to be their worst selling device.
I don’t know the sales figures, but they can’t be great for the Mac Pro.
I’ll take what I can get in the US. Hopefully it leads to Apple making more stuff here in the future.
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Sure but that's true across the board, for every electronics and computer manufacturer including the very large one that I work for, so if Apple doesn't sell it to them, then someone else that is also supplied by China will. And on top of that:
1) Russia is a small part of the global market for these devices
2) The capability of Chinese manufacturing to keep up with global demand is far, far behind. It will take 6-12 months just to flush global backlog of what's already been sold. Loss of some sales destined for a a small portion of the market today, is nonexistent, and in 12 months, it'll still be negligible.
Arguably this might actually be good for sellers (and their suppliers), allowing manufacturers to focus allocations on more profitable market segments for the time being. The Russian market isn't a very wealthy one.
All this makes sense. Thanks for educating me.
Probably also true that Russia is not a major market. Wealth inequality there is insane. I’d venture to guess the average Russian can’t afford a $1,000 iPhone. And I think Apple devices are also more expensive in foreign countries than they are in US.
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That’s awesome that Apple is actually going to build something in the US.
But it also happens to be their most expensive device which also happens to be their worst selling device.
I don’t know the sales figures, but they can’t be great for the Mac Pro.
I’ll take what I can get in the US. Hopefully it leads to Apple making more stuff here in the future.
Yeah, unfortunately that's the only reason they're willing to manufacture that model in the US. They can afford to take a hit of a few points of margin on products that are already high-margin and low volume.
But COVID is teaching American manufacturers that they can't afford to leave everything in the hands of foreign governments, even if those governments were 100% friendly (which the CCP obviously is not). In the coming years I expect we'll see a decent amount of manufacturing capability moving back to the Western hemisphere, even including the US. We're definitely already working to increase IC production here. (those chips everyone is talking about)
Hmmm... how that ties in with Russia's invasion of Ukraine is, well... longhorn320 started it, anyway.
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Arrested by who, with what authority, and on what charge under what legal code?
That's what the Taliban kept asking
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The market despot can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent Ukraine can stand...
yeah, and it's not just that- Ukraine being in Russia's sphere of influence is existential to any Russian leader, not just Putin. They would seem irrational over this issue to us no matter who was in power.
What is happening now, was unfortunately predicted by many academics, politicians, diplomats, and intelligence experts of every political stripe and background- for over a decade. Unfortunately no one in power listened to any of them.
This is maybe the best videos I've seen on this topic...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE
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Arrested by who, with what authority, and on what charge under what legal code?
A drone.
Common sense.
Prudence.
Joke.
You're not good with the joke receiving, are ye?
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Sure, if we all drove EVs. But we don't, some of us even have large Diesel things we use to tow stuff.
We can't replace oil in months, or even a few years.
This is radically wrong.
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This is radically wrong.
Wrong how?
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What is happening now, was unfortunately predicted by many academics, politicians, diplomats, and intelligence experts of every political stripe and background- for over a decade. Unfortunately no one in power listened to any of them.
What might not be predicted is Russia getting shown their ass.
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Wrong how?
The fact that my truck is gas-fueled, not diesel.
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What might not be predicted is Russia getting shown their ass.
When you have a 40-mile convoy on a two-lane road one's ass is in full view of shoulder fired Javelin heat seeking missiles.
Ukrainian land is much like Midwestern farmland this time of year. You cannot drive in it without getting mired in muck. Fire on the first 10-vehicles, and very few will be able to go around in a ditch.
It's like firing at ducks on a pond. These Javelin devices with missiles loaded are about 35 lbs. A very strong man can walk 30-miles in a day with a shoulder fired missile. Ukraine has motivated men fighting for freedom. I am guessing there are men with sedans, and men walking on gravel roads on either side of this column just waiting for the fuel to be delivered so their Soviet era engines can warm up, and be fired upon.
If you were a Russian soldier's parent you might go to Moscow to search out the persons responsible for what is about to happen to their 18, 19, and 20 year old kids.
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I have been trying to understand this conflict better.
I was perping on a Ukrainian's Flickr page. He has a few personal incredible war photos. Click his photostream to see which can be found following the link below.
He has this video from Summer 2021 Ukrainian Independence Day Parade, long before this conflict developed. These people have more national pride, and support democracy more than our population. It is stirring. Click on it to view a small part of the parade. Belarussian red and white flag - their "friends" in low places, opposed to their own regime. All these people (Belarussians too) in Ukraine are opposed to Putin's puppet state(s).
Putin should have gotten a Flickr page to assess risks. Welcome to the 21st century.
The "Aidar" Battalion vets on parade on the Independence d… | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/uav2014/51402339399/in/photostream/?fbclid=IwAR2Vty7InYg9hHg7jqhN3quilc7L9gGMETqz3goc8CdT2x17sK1yZ4UcJ2k)
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What might not be predicted is Russia getting shown their ass.
Well what many of them may not have predicted then was the US flooding Ukraine with lethal arms. Obama had refused to do this, overruling the military hawks in his administration- rightly so in my opinion. What's funny is that Trump- the "Russian Puppet" is the one who almost immediately reversed course once taking office and started flooding Ukraine with lethal arms and the Biden administration kept that flow going.
Ukraine is holding tough, but for how long? They can't hold up forever and my fear is Russia will get impatient and just do some really heinous sh*t, bomb more and bomb indiscriminately. Which of course they started to do - and will probably just continue more.
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All the reportage and emphasis on this long convoy for days and days ....
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https://twitter.com/ryanlongcomedy/status/1498790773025820719?s=20&t=SHk8YDemZNXMrOELXBzn5g
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https://twitter.com/ryanlongcomedy/status/1498790773025820719?s=20&t=SHk8YDemZNXMrOELXBzn5g
Oh boy! That'll change his mind. Maybe we could revoke his planet fitness and Costco membership. AARP membership too! What will he do without his senior discounts?🤦♂️Mess with Sleepy Joe and you get the 4:00 pm diner discount revoked
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I'm seeing photos of damaged building in the "news", which I saw yesterday and the day before. The "convoy" is not as much in the news. Russian forces seem to be advancing in the south out of Crimea. Talks again today, hard to imagine anything changes there.
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The news networks are about 2-3 days behind the internet sources/postings.
Images from yesterday/today from cities closest to the borders and sea, are heartbreaking.
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The images in the "news media" are heart breaking. War is heart breaking, especially in urban areas. What happened to that convoy?
It went from lead story about how massive it was and nearing Kyiv to ....
Live coverage - Russian push for Ukrainian cities accelerates | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/596473-live-coverage-russian-push-for-ukrainian-cities-accelerates)
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The convoy is still there. It's still huge. It's not moving much.
Optimistic hopes are that they're experiencing difficulties due to road conditions/harassment from Ukrainian forces/logistical issues.
But it could just be that they're pausing and regrouping for their inevitable siege.
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OK, but it was reported breathlessly as a THING just two days ago. Now it's just there, hardly moving, not in the news.
I suppose it's yet another indication of what seems a headline one day disappeared the next often enough. But it gets clicks.
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I think President Biden's SOTU speech has jolted the Russians in the convoy.
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I think President Biden's SOTU speech has jolted the Russians in the convoy.
one thing is for sure from that speech, they'll never capture the hearts and minds of the Iranians.
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dern, I missed it
was watching Husker hoops which is usually painful
not that painful
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(https://i.imgur.com/C5xYk4D.png)
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I think President Biden's SOTU speech has jolted the Russians in the convoy.
Speech?
I watched the Badgers.
What speech?
This post is relevant, by the way, as the Ukrainian people and soldiers are digging in like Badgers, and they don't give a shit.
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Do Ukrainian badgers like tacos?
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(https://i.imgur.com/C5xYk4D.png)
would find this funny if Ukraine wasn't such a spectacularly corrupt country and it's current President Zelenskyy's didn't pop up all over the leaked Pandora Papers in which it was shown he had hidden assets off-shore (to avoid taxation) and if he didn't have such close ties to Ihor Kolomoyskyi- the 3rd richest Oligarch in Ukraine - including a $41 million deal- where the funds were shown to almost immediately be transferred off-shore and out of the country.
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I find it funny regardless of any of that.
Also
*its
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Good thing they don't have to declare this:
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1499033447414837250?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499033447414837250%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fosinttechnical%2Fstatus%2F1499033447414837250%3Fs%3D21
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Good thing they don't have to declare this:
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1499033447414837250?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499033447414837250%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fosinttechnical%2Fstatus%2F1499033447414837250%3Fs%3D21
that's pretty awesome.
I've always wanted to own a fighter jet. Without the missiles of course. That'd be a pretty cool toy to play with. And even better if I got it for free lol.
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one thing is for sure from that speech, they'll never capture the hearts and minds of the Iranians.
i heard it as "uranians", thought he coined a word for the cheronbyl peoples. :57:
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i heard it as "uranians", thought he coined a word for the cheronbyl peoples. :57:
or he could've been talking about the aliens that live among us from Uranus.
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that's pretty awesome.
I've always wanted to own a fighter jet. Without the missiles of course. That'd be a pretty cool toy to play with. And even better if I got it for free lol.
you can! they cost $250k+ but there are several you can buy, including mig21, mig29, t38, f104, there was even an f16 sold in florida in 2019 for $8.5 mil.
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that's pretty awesome.
I've always wanted to own a fighter jet. Without the missiles of course. That'd be a pretty cool toy to play with. And even better if I got it for free lol.
Do you have a pilots license with the appropriate additions to enable you to operate turbine aircraft?
You could sit in the cockpit and say "zoom zoom". There was an outfit at the airport I used that would convert Russian trainers to civilian use, I think they went for a couple hundred thousand. I imagine operational costs would be significant.
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The convoy is still there. It's still huge. It's not moving much.
Optimistic hopes are that they're experiencing difficulties due to road conditions/harassment from Ukrainian forces/logistical issues.
But it could just be that they're pausing and regrouping for their inevitable siege.
Defense officials and Western experts of war are puzzled by the stalling of Russia's 40 mile convoy. "Food and Fuel" shortages, as reported, don't add up because this is a RESUPPLY convoy that was fully readied in Belarus about 100 miles north of Kyiv. By its very purpose it shouldn't be out of fuel, especially after its short trip from Belarus.
My brother, an Army Vet with infantry experience in Afghanistan, believes it's a problem of disorganization among their officers ranks. I, on the other hand, wonder if the convoy is sitting there waiting until Russia can attain Air Superiority over Kyiv, which is another point of confusion among the experts.
We're witnessing the Russians learn the hard way how difficult a multi-faceted invasion is - air, seas, land - but air superiority should've been the easiest of the three for Russia. Instead, to the confusion of many, Russia's efforts for the sky are lacking.
As for the ground and seas, with most of the attention on the larger cities of Kyiv to the north and Kharkiv in the East, Russian Forces are finding their footing in the south and taking control of a number of the medium size regional cities nearer to the Black Sea. Mariupol is surrounded and under control of Russian Forces and the Sea of Azov is now cut off. About half a dozen smaller cities in the south and east are under an ultimatum to surrender or face leveling by artillary fire.
In the city of Kherson (pop. 250k-300k) Russian Forces have closed it off and infantry units are patrolling the empty streets. After a disorienting first wave of attack Russian Forces now seem adapted to a more determined and careful approach, checking and arresting citizens they find on the streets and taking over government buildings. Russian Forces are also looting markets for food and several apartment towers have been struck by heavy artillary.
https://twitter.com/TCG_CrisisRisks/status/1498883386089226249
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At the same time, this is the first war where smart phones and social media have been present in such force, and we're getting real-time views of what's happening in numerous regions simultaneously.
https://spectatorworld.com/topic/ukraine-invasion-first-social-media-war-volodymyr-zelensky/
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hard to disagree here. All Russians are not to blame for this invasion and war. One is. Vladimir Putin. Not that it holds water or is valid at all- but at least when Bin Laden said he blames all Americans for our foreign policy and wars because we vote for our leaders- that part was actually true- we do vote for them. Russians didn't vote for Vladimir Putin. He's a dictator. I even saw a story where a Russian conductor- who is supposedly the most famous conductor in the world- was fired in Germany from the Munich Philharmonic. His crime? He didn't publicly denounce Vladimir Putin- a dictator who has a long track record of assassinating prominent Russians who speak out against him.
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1499024396782120961?s=20&t=RKLWvCeNevTlS1Dnbx1ghg
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hard to disagree here. All Russians are not to blame for this invasion and war. One is. Vladimir Putin. Not that it holds water or is valid at all- but at least when Bin Laden said he blames all Americans because we vote for out leaders- that part was actually true- we do vote for them. Russians didn't vote for Vladimir Putin. He's a dictator. I even saw a story where a Russian conductor was fired in Germany from the Munich Philharmonic. His crime? He didn't publicly denounce Vladimir Putin- a dictator who has a long track record of assassinating Russians who speak out against him.
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1499024396782120961?s=20&t=RKLWvCeNevTlS1Dnbx1ghg
I dont agree with this
Russia is their country and its citizens need to put a stop to this
We need to put as much pressure as we can to convince them to do whatever it takes to stop it
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you can't even stop Biden from his actions
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you can't even stop Biden from his actions
as much as I would like to respond I cant cause utee will put me in jail if I do
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Stop bringing up Iraq. This thread is about Russia's murderous invasion of Ukraine.
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Stop bringing up Iraq. This thread is about Russia's murderous invasion of Ukraine.
I mean, ok, but it's a pretty good reference point on one country invading another country in recent history
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I mean, ok, but it's a pretty good reference point on one country invading another country in recent history
It's been used repeatedly by MDot as a red herring to excuse Putin's murderous invasion of Ukraine.
Feel free to discuss it elsewhere. I'd suggest Area 51.
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they've already cracked skulls, broken up every protest that started (there were 53 different cities protesting initially) and arrested like 10,000 protestors. if you think the people have any shot of overthrowing Putin, well that's a complete fantasy.
And if you study history - draconian sanctions just wind up driving the people getting crushed by those sanctions into the arms of the dictator- and those people have to depend on the dictator/state for survival.
My guess here is only those that wield massive power like the richest 100 or so Oligarchs and the very top officials in govt/military probably have any realistic shot of overthrowing him. It's not going to come from street demonstrations- Putin doesn't care what the public thinks. Russia controls the media and they'll just crack down on any protestors.
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It's been used repeatedly by MDot as a red herring to excuse Putin's murderous invasion of Russia.
Feel free to discuss it elsewhere. I'd suggest Area 51.
yeah, except it's not a red herring, it's absolutely relevant to this discussion at hand as the US has made a complete mockery of international law through the decades- which is why we have zero credibility on the topic of illegal invasions- nor have I ever excused Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
This disastrous outcome we're seeing right now has been a predictable event- one that many from all different backgrounds and stripes have been predicting would come to pass for nearly 15 years- and unfortunately several US administrations and a DC foreign policy elite have ignored all the warnings and predictions. Things do not happen in a vacuum. The world is not black and white. The US has had a major role in the build-up and escalation that lead to this war. To completely deny that is beyond ridiculous.
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they've already cracked skulls, broken up every protest that started (there were 53 different cities protesting initially) and arrested like 10,000 protestors. if you think the people have any shot of overthrowing Putin, well that's a complete fantasy.
And if you study history - just take the draconian sanctions just wind up driving the people getting crushed by those sanctions into the arms of the dictator- and those people have to depend on the dictator/state for survival.
My guess here is only those that wield massive power like the richest 100 or so Oligarchs and the very top officials in govt/military probably have any realistic shot of overthrowing him. It's not going to come from street demonstrations- Putin doesn't care what the public thinks. Russia controls the media and they'll just crack down on any protestors.
It's possibly true, but because the entire rest of the world is either unwilling, or unable, to use military force against Russia, the sanctions and exclusions are the only measures we CAN take.
It's not personal, but Russia must be cut off from as much of the rest of the world as possible, and that includes canceling events planned to occur within Russia's borders, and banning and excluding their athletes and entertainers from world events.
I agree that it sucks for the average every-day Russian, but the alternative of using military force and starting WWIII and potentially a nuclear holocaust, is less desirable.
I can empathize, but I feel far worse for the Ukrainians that are being killed daily by Putin's evil and disgusting war of aggression.
Also, we know that part of Putin's arrogance involves being seen as a great world power, and it's clear that sporting events and Russia excelling on the world stage actually do matter to him. It might seem immaterial, but it's entirely possible that excluding Russia from the world stage in this manner will cause him more harm, than watching his entire nation starve. He's that much of a dickface.
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2 orchestras fire Russian conductor for supporting Putin - ABC News (go.com) (https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/munich-fires-russian-conductor-gergiev-supporting-putin-83174620)
Gergiev, a friend and supporter of Putin, is the music director of the Mariinsky Theatre in St. Petersburg, Russia, and its White Nights Festival. He was already dropped by the Edinburgh International Festival and from the Vienna Philharmonic’s five-concert U.S. tour, and his management company said Sunday it will no longer represent him.
Milan’s Teatro alla Scala said unless Gergiev makes a clear statement in favor of a peaceful resolution in Ukraine, Gergiev wouldn't be permitted to return to complete his engagement conducting Tchaikovsky’s “The Queen of Spades,” which resumes March 5.
The war also has created difficulties for other Russian artists.
On Tuesday, soprano Anna Netrebko said that she had “decided to take a step back from performing for the time being.”
“As I have said, I am opposed to this senseless war of aggression and I am calling on Russia to end this war right now, to save all of us," she said in a statement. “We need peace right now.”
“This is not a time for me to make music and perform,” she said.
In March 2014 he joined a host of other Russian arts and cultural figures in signing an open letter of support for Russia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia)'s position regarding Ukraine and the Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation). The letter was posted on the website of Russia's culture ministry on 12 March 2014. In the letter signatories stated that they "firmly declare our support for the position of the president of the Russian Federation" in the region.[24] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valery_Gergiev#cite_note-MKRF-2014-03-11-24)[25] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valery_Gergiev#cite_note-LATimes-2014-03-12-25)
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yeah, except it's not a red herring, it's absolutely relevant to this discussion at hand as the US has made a complete mockery of international law through the decades- which is why we have zero credibility on the topic of illegal invasions- nor have I ever excused Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
This disastrous outcome we're seeing right now has been a predictable event- one that many from all different backgrounds and stripes have been predicting would come to pass for nearly 15 years- and unfortunately several US administrations and a DC foreign policy elite have ignored all the warnings and predictions. Things do not happen in a vacuum. The world is not black and white. The US has had a major role in the build-up and escalation that lead to this war. To completely deny that is beyond ridiculous.
Yes, you keep attempting to deflect and divert away from Russian responsibility and culpability for the murders occurring right now. We've all heard your schtick. As long as you keep it apolitical and keep it about Ukraine/Russia, I won't delete it. But we've all heard it and you're not swaying the hearts and minds of anyone on this message board by repeating the same crap over and over again.
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Yup, whatever mistakes the US has made historically is not relevant to this discussion, at all.
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yeah, except it's not a red herring, it's absolutely relevant to this discussion at hand as the US has made a complete mockery of international law through the decades- which is why we have zero credibility on the topic of illegal invasions- nor have I ever excused Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
This disastrous outcome we're seeing right now has been a predictable event- one that many from all different backgrounds and stripes have been predicting would come to pass for nearly 15 years- and unfortunately several US administrations and a DC foreign policy elite have ignored all the warnings and predictions. Things do not happen in a vacuum. The world is not black and white. The US has had a major role in the build-up and escalation that lead to this war. To completely deny that is beyond ridiculous.
so now youre blaming the US for this war
this doesnt even deserve a response
take this shit some where else
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I can empathize, but I feel far worse for the Ukrainians that are being killed daily by Putin's evil and disgusting war of aggression.
Also, we know that part of Putin's arrogance involves being seen as a great world power, and it's clear that sporting events and Russia excelling on the world stage actually do matter to him. It might seem immaterial, but it's entirely possible that excluding Russia from the world stage in this manner will cause him more harm, than watching his entire nation starve. He's that much of a dickface.
Agree on both fronts.
And great point that I didn't actually think of. World Cup, Olympics - Russia being respected and seen as a great power is something that he clearly does care about. Probably too much. That backlash has to be burning his ass.
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Agree on both fronts.
And great point that I didn't actually think of. World Cup, Olympics - Russia being respected and seen as a great power is something that he clearly does care about. Probably too much. That backlash has to be burning his ass.
I worry as much about his response to THIS type of thing, as I do to his response to the economic crippling of his country. I think he's acting irrationally right now and either one of those things could lead him to a very dark path of retaliation.
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It is concerning if Putin is behaving irrationally, in the past, he has at least appeared to be rational in his actions. One could look into his eyes ....
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Yup, whatever mistakes the US has made historically is not relevant to this discussion, at all.
I think that is bonkers. How can one have a discussion about the legality and morality of this war without comparing it to other similar wars? Just seems like wanting to get into rah rah mode with no real actual discussion, just government talking points.
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You are allowed to think it is bonkers, on some other thread. I can't see how the legality and morality of THIS war is remotely questionable. It's not worth discussion.
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Belarus President Lukashenko gave a briefing yesterday with a map indicating Moldova is Putin's next target. Moldova is on the Southwest side of Ukraine and is not a NATO member.
https://www.newsweek.com/lukashenkos-map-might-have-revealed-russias-strategy-ukraine-moldova-1683935 (https://www.newsweek.com/lukashenkos-map-might-have-revealed-russias-strategy-ukraine-moldova-1683935)
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I think that is bonkers. How can one have a discussion about the legality and morality of this war without comparing it to other similar wars? Just seems like wanting to get into rah rah mode with no real actual discussion, just government talking points.
I'm not relaying any government talking points at all. I'm posting up articles and insights from the various sources, both official and unofficial, to try and get an understanding of the current events associated with this specific war.
This thread isn't supposed to be political. None of the threads on this forum are. If you want to get into political debates or argue political ideology, then Area 51 has always been the place to go do that.
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yeah, except it's not a red herring, it's absolutely relevant to this discussion at hand as the US has made a complete mockery of international law through the decades- which is why we have zero credibility on the topic of illegal invasions- nor have I ever excused Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
This disastrous outcome we're seeing right now has been a predictable event- one that many from all different backgrounds and stripes have been predicting would come to pass for nearly 15 years- and unfortunately several US administrations and a DC foreign policy elite have ignored all the warnings and predictions. Things do not happen in a vacuum. The world is not black and white. The US has had a major role in the build-up and escalation that lead to this war. To completely deny that is beyond ridiculous.
there's an almost 1000 page thread with roughly 200 pages dedicated to this war. and a significant amount of those 200 pages are you telling us it's not going to happen, it's posturing, us war mongering, us intelligence propaganda, blah blah, while many of us were telling you it's not just going to happen, it already started almost a decade ago. i'm not sure i trust your analysis.
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I thought Moldova was already aligned with Putin.
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You are allowed to think it is bonkers, on some other thread. I can't see how the legality and morality of THIS war is remotely questionable. It's not worth discussion.
Yeah, but see, that's just your opinion. And in my opinion, it's downright goofy to have a "discussion" about it that isn't actually a discussion. Is it really "political" to talk about United States' actions abroad impact other countries decision making? Otherwise it's just an echo chamber where we decry badness and espouse goodness.
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I thought Moldova was already aligned with Putin.
There's an area that has a lot of Russian speakers, and maybe some Russian military, like the Donbas region in Ukraine. But not all of Moldova is pro-Russian.
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It is concerning if Putin is behaving irrationally, in the past, he has at least appeared to be rational in his actions. One could look into his eyes ....
well if he'd pick a smaller table so they can sit closer together they might could again. ba dum tss
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Feel free to argue how this conflict is somehow moral and legal on some other thread.
I think this thread should be about news from this conflict and the impact it's having globally, not about what somebody else did in 2,000 BC.
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How sanctions are affecting Russia : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/03/02/1083694848/sanctions-russia-ukraine-economy-war)
It's interesting, to me, how these sanctions have an almost immediate impact on Russians, like how Russians out of the country somewhere else find their credit cards are not working now.
But is there any logical mechanism for removing Putin? He's former KGB, no doubt he knows how to leverage power over others.
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Yeah, but see, that's just your opinion. And in my opinion, it's downright goofy to have a "discussion" about it that isn't actually a discussion. Is it really "political" to talk about United States' actions abroad impact other countries decision making? Otherwise it's just an echo chamber where we decry badness and espouse goodness.
No. It's a thread about the ongoing unfolding events in the midst of Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine. I'm not sure how to make it any more clear.
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It is concerning if Putin is behaving irrationally, in the past, he has at least appeared to be rational in his actions. One could look into his eyes ....
Russia was never going to act rationally over the Ukraine issue. I don't think it matters the leader. It's literally life and death for them- regardless of leader. It is of the highest strategic value to them.
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There's an area that has a lot of Russian speakers, and maybe some Russian military, like the Donbas region in Ukraine. But not all of Moldova is pro-Russian.
Yes, I reckon some of them might be surprised that part of the plan is for them to be returned back to Mother Russia.
Surprised and possibly even upset.
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Feel free to argue how this conflict is somehow moral and legal on some other thread.
Explaining root causes that contributed to an action does not equal arguing that the action is moral or legal.
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(https://i.imgur.com/RO7xW0o.png)
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Moldova vows to seek closer ties with Europe despite fears of provoking Russia - The Globe and Mail (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-moldova-vows-to-seek-closer-ties-with-europe-despite-fears-of/)
Moldova is worried, I was incorrect in my assumption they were already in Putin's pocket.
They have a separatist area as well, as noted above, so I learned something. They have some good wine also.
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Feel free to argue how this conflict is somehow moral and legal on some other thread.
I think this thread should be about news from this conflict and the impact it's having globally, not about what somebody else did in 2,000 BC.
We can't have people thinking critically about these things!
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President Biden seems to be going out of his way not to aggravate Putin any more than necessary. Closing US airspace to Russia only after Canada did so days earlier. Similarly following the EU lead with the other sanctions. Exempting Russian energy exports/sales and associated financial transactions from sanctions. On the other hand the EU appears to be serious about supplying the Ukraine with arms. Hard to forecast the direction this conflict will take other than total ruin in Ukraine. Putin leveled the Chechen capitol Grozny around 2001(?). And that was inside Russia.
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god I hope that map was an error and Moldova isn't invaded. that just has the potential to truly be terrible. for everyone.
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We can't have people thinking critically about these things!
It's a free country, you can vote on this issue with your pocketbook. :)
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Explaining root causes that contributed to an action does not equal arguing that the action is moral or legal.
I was responding to this exchange. If he wants to explain how this war is legal and moral, fine with me, somewhere else, like A51. I don't see why we should debate how this war is legal and moral here, the topic for me is absurd.
Quote from: Cincydawg on Today at 11:58:58 AM (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/you-not-say-ukraine-weak!/msg421564/#msg421564)
You are allowed to think it is bonkers, on some other thread. I can't see how the legality and morality of THIS war is remotely questionable. It's not worth discussion.
Yeah, but see, that's just your opinion. And in my opinion, it's downright goofy to have a "discussion" about it that isn't actually a discussion. Is it really "political" to talk about United States' actions abroad impact other countries decision making? Otherwise it's just an echo chamber where we decry badness and espouse goodness.
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I'd also argue that pointing out past actions that are of questionable morality or legality are not relevant, and would constitute the debate fallacy known as "whataboutism"...
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I was responding to this exchange. If he wants to explain how this war is legal and moral, fine with me, somewhere else, like A51. I don't see why we should debate how this war is legal and moral here, the topic for me is absurd.
Does everyone have to be bound by your lack of interest in a subject?
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President Biden seems to be going out of his way not to aggravate Putin any more than necessary. Closing US airspace to Russia only after Canada did so days earlier. Similarly following the EU lead with the other sanctions. Exempting Russian energy exports/sales and associated financial transactions from sanctions. On the other hand the EU appears to be serious about supplying the Ukraine with arms. Hard to forecast the direction this conflict will take other than total ruin in Ukraine. Putin leveled the Chechen capitol Grozny around 2001(?). And that was inside Russia.
I'm in favor of Europe taking the lead on this. As horrifying as I find the Russian atrocities being committed, especially those against civilians, this is a European war. Those ethnic groups and regions have been warring against one another for thousands of years and a lot of that comes back up every time any conflict arises.
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I'd also argue that pointing out past actions that are of questionable morality or legality are not relevant, and would constitute the debate fallacy known as "whataboutism"...
I mean, sure, relitigating old arguments is besides the point. However, Russia didn't invade Ukraine on a dare - there is a long history here. It certainly merits discussion on what motivated our country to invade other countries, because Russia is somewhat similar. They are a big country with a big military that decided that Ukraine was a threat, similar to how we though Iraq and Afghanistan were threats.
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One curious thing this war brings into some relief, but which doesn't get a lot of attention in U.S. media (which is the only I'm particularly in tune to, and even then not especially), is the history of places and nations in Europe. The U.S. has a very state-centered view of history. Europe, as I understand from my European sister-in-law, really does not. This came up in a discussion about Austria's place in Europe and the world (she's Austrian--that, according to her, is like German, but with a sense of humor). She reminded our family that Austria, as a concept, is only about 150 years old--younger than our "young" country. That's also true of Italy, Germany, Spain, and most of Eastern Europe. Prior to statehood (or nationhood, if you prefer), these areas were united by various monarchies that didn't really have the same borders that we think of today. So the Habsburg monarchy/empire was more the driving force in much of what we think of Austria, but like all monarchies of the time (and basically the preceding thousand years), it expanded and contracted with the changing familial relationships, and borders changed, too. That also means that many of regions of Europe aren't really appropriately considered by the national borders that resulted from the World Wars and the end of the Soviet empire, as much as by their historical regional connections.
My sister-in-law is Carinthian--her region of Austria. She is maybe more Carinthian than Austrian. And at least from her perspective, that's pretty common in much of Europe. As opposed to here where, even--I think--in the former rebellious states, we tend to be more American than [insert your state here]. Look at Spain--there are still separatists in Spain, in Catalonia. The Catalans recently declared their independence from Spain. Didn't do anything to Spain's actual borders or governance, but they are still trying to carve out their own nation. Wales, in the UK, not to mention Scotland and Northern Ireland, is another good example.
That's one of many factors that makes Russia's connections to part of Ukraine (and Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova, Belarus, etc.) much more complicated than simply: this is where the line was drawn (and it had a big part in the annexation of the Crimea back in 2014). There are parts of the Ukraine that *feel* more like Russia--and whose citizens identify more as Russians. What to do about that? I'm no expert in that, though I'm quite sure invading the Ukraine and trying to remove a pro-Ukrainian/pro-Western government to install a puppet Russian regime reminiscent of the Soviet Union isn't the right answer.
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I mean, sure, relitigating old arguments is besides the point. However, Russia didn't invade Ukraine on a dare - there is a long history here. It certainly merits discussion on what motivated our country to invade other countries, because Russia is somewhat similar. They are a big country with a big military that decided that Ukraine was a threat, similar to how we though Iraq and Afghanistan were threats.
How was Ukraine a threat?
Putin doesn't see it as a threat, he sees it as a conquest.
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The United Nations on Wednesday passed a resolution condemning Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in an extraordinary effort to unite member countries against Russia, which holds a permanent seat on the Security Council.
Of the 193-member body, 141 nations voted in favor of the resolution, with 35 abstentions and five voting against, including Russia, Belarus, Syria, Eritrea and North Korea.
The text of the resolution included "demands that the Russian Federation immediately, completely, and unconditionally withdraw all of its military forces from the territory of Ukraine within its internationally recognized borders."
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The concept of a nation state with defined borders is relatively new in history. Lines were drawn in 1919 that led to other conflicts later. It's an interesting topic, but I would prefer this specific thread be more about current events, what people are seeing in the "news" and what they think it means.
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Yup, whatever mistakes the US has made historically is not relevant to this discussion, at all.
so if you mess with a wasps nest for 15 years (really, more like 20+) and repeatedly get warned what might happen if you keep provoking the wasps nest, and then you keep provoking the wasps nest, and the wasp goes off and stings- you've got zero culpability and that is not relevant at all? Well, ok. Going to disagree slightly there.
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How was Ukraine a threat?
Putin doesn't see it as a threat, he sees it as a conquest.
I don't really agree with that, in the sense that I don't think that is the motivating factor. I think it makes sense that Russia sees the continued movement of weapons into Ukraine and a stronger Ukraine military as a threat. What led to diplomacy breaking down and military force being used. I don't really know, other than it seems clear that Russia has made very little headway with any of their interests in the region. It's not difficult to imagine a similar scenario playing out here, given the Cuba missile crisis.
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I'm in favor of Europe taking the lead on this. As horrifying as I find the Russian atrocities being committed, especially those against civilians, this is a European war. Those ethnic groups and regions have been warring against one another for thousands of years and a lot of that comes back up every time any conflict arises.
this. i'm also perfectly fine with the us/biden deferring to european allies in what sanctions to impose. both from a perspective of they might know what might be most effective and from one of wanting to limit the resulting pains of sanctions to just russia as much as possible. everyone will feel it some, but if we can limit that pain to us and allies and maximize it to russia, well then yes please.
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How was Ukraine a threat?
Putin doesn't see it as a threat, he sees it as a conquest.
Russia has only been talking about this for almost 15 years. They see NATO incursion into Ukraine and Ukraine as part of the West as a threat of the highest oder.
Classified US diplomatic cables...
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html
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How was Ukraine a threat?
It was a threat to his vision of a greater Russia. A prosperous Ukraine right on Putin's border is not a military threat but a threat to his dictatorship/kleptocracy.
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Russia has only been talking about this for almost 15 years. They see NATO incursion into Ukraine and Ukraine as part of the West as a threat of the highest oder.
Classified US diplomatic cables...
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html#efmBTnBfi
It was never about NATO. Let's agree to disagree.
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It was a threat to his vision of a greater Russia. A prosperous Ukraine right on Putin's border is not a military threat but a threat to his dictatorship/kleptocracy.
yeah, this is kinda true. but not really. a thriving truly democratic Ukraine would absolutely be a threat to his dictatorship. except Ukraine is not anywhere close to that- even with their new hilariously corrupt government that has been in power for almost a decade and that the US helped to power by backing a coup of a democratically elected government in 2014.
Ukraine in NATO on their border is a real threat to them. Without Ukraine at least neutral as a buffer zone- their position to defend against invasion is pretty much indefensible.
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It was never about NATO. Let's agree to disagree.
yes, I'll agree that you're wrong :)
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The concept of a nation state with defined borders is relatively new in history. Lines were drawn in 1919 that led to other conflicts later. It's an interesting topic, but I would prefer this specific thread be more about current events, what people are seeing in the "news" and what they think it means.
Cool. I only make the occasional appearance around her to say some tangential thing, anyway. My opinion is that the cause of these current events can't be extricated from the drawing of Europe's borders.
And that the Ukraine is doing a remarkable job holding off a vastly superior (at least in terms of size) military--and that the West's resolve in punishing Russia economically is both (a) a good thing; and (b) Russia's reaction to it worries me. As does my nagging concern that North Korea is always looking for an opportunity when the West isn't paying as much attention to it. But neither of those worries makes me think the West is reacting badly or wrongly.
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I guess maybe TODAY will be the first day in all of history, when someone on the internet convinces someone else on the internet to change her or his mind.
Oh wait, no it won't. :)
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I've had my mind changed several times by you knuckleheads--I just don't ever want you to know. ;-)
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Hah!
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One curious thing this war brings into some relief, but which doesn't get a lot of attention in U.S. media (which is the only I'm particularly in tune to, and even then not especially), is the history of places and nations in Europe. The U.S. has a very state-centered view of history. Europe, as I understand from my European sister-in-law, really does not. This came up in a discussion about Austria's place in Europe and the world (she's Austrian--that, according to her, is like German, but with a sense of humor). She reminded our family that Austria, as a concept, is only about 150 years old--younger than our "young" country. That's also true of Italy, Germany, Spain, and most of Eastern Europe. Prior to statehood (or nationhood, if you prefer), these areas were united by various monarchies that didn't really have the same borders that we think of today. So the Habsburg monarchy/empire was more the driving force in much of what we think of Austria, but like all monarchies of the time (and basically the preceding thousand years), it expanded and contracted with the changing familial relationships, and borders changed, too. That also means that many of regions of Europe aren't really appropriately considered by the national borders that resulted from the World Wars and the end of the Soviet empire, as much as by their historical regional connections.
My sister-in-law is Carinthian--her region of Austria. She is maybe more Carinthian than Austrian. And at least from her perspective, that's pretty common in much of Europe. As opposed to here where, even--I think--in the former rebellious states, we tend to be more American than [insert your state here]. Look at Spain--there are still separatists in Spain, in Catalonia. The Catalans recently declared their independence from Spain. Didn't do anything to Spain's actual borders or governance, but they are still trying to carve out their own nation. Wales, in the UK, not to mention Scotland and Northern Ireland, is another good example.
That's one of many factors that makes Russia's connections to part of Ukraine (and Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova, Belarus, etc.) much more complicated than simply: this is where the line was drawn (and it had a big part in the annexation of the Crimea back in 2014). There are parts of the Ukraine that *feel* more like Russia--and whose citizens identify more as Russians. What to do about that? I'm no expert in that, though I'm quite sure invading the Ukraine and trying to remove a pro-Ukrainian/pro-Western government to install a puppet Russian regime reminiscent of the Soviet Union isn't the right answer.
i'm no scholar on history, but i remember reading something like this about us citizens feelings abut america. the argument was basically that until sometime after the civil war, most people identified as either a state or even city. they were alabamians, virginians, or even philadelphians. but sometime after the civil war, that attitude shifted to more identifying as americans.
it also would make a lot of sense as we brought those attitudes of local identity with us from our ancestors in europe.
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I've had my mind changed several times by you knuckleheads--I just don't ever want you to know. ;-)
right? i used to think we were all smart. :57:
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I don't really agree with that, in the sense that I don't think that is the motivating factor. I think it makes sense that Russia sees the continued movement of weapons into Ukraine and a stronger Ukraine military as a threat. What led to diplomacy breaking down and military force being used. I don't really know, other than it seems clear that Russia has made very little headway with any of their interests in the region. It's not difficult to imagine a similar scenario playing out here, given the Cuba missile crisis.
Except that the threat isn't of an invasion of Russia by Ukraine. Literally none of history suggests that.
NATO has been a defensive alliance for ~70 years with a track record of, well, not invading Russia. The former Soviet Bloc states that wanted to join NATO did so not to invade Russia, but to be protected from it.
Russia has piles and piles of nuclear weapons and MAD is still a thing, so he's got quite the deterrent against invasion, should it occur [which it won't].
The idea that Ukraine is a "threat" because they they have weapons and want to join a defensive military alliance is only a "threat" if you have plans to invade at some point and don't want them to be able to protect themselves.
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I guess maybe TODAY will be the first day in all of history, when someone on the internet convinces someone else on the internet to change her or his mind.
Oh wait, no it won't. :)
:043:
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i'm no scholar on history, but i remember reading something like this about us citizens feelings abut america. the argument was basically that until sometime after the civil war, most people identified as either a state or even city. they were alabamians, virginians, or even philadelphians. but sometime after the civil war, that attitude shifted to more identifying as americans.
it also would make a lot of sense as we brought those attitudes of local identity with us from our ancestors in europe.
think the main difference and what helps us is that we're a nation of mutts and immigrants.
we're not an ethnically homogenized nation. and literally anyone can come here and become an American. That's a great thing about this country.
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Except that the threat isn't of an invasion of Russia by Ukraine. Literally none of history suggests that.
NATO has been a defensive alliance for ~70 years with a track record of, well, not invading Russia. The former Soviet Bloc states that wanted to join NATO did so not to invade Russia, but to be protected from it.
Russia has piles and piles of nuclear weapons and MAD is still a thing, so he's got quite the deterrent against invasion, should it occur [which it won't].
The idea that Ukraine is a "threat" because they they have weapons and want to join a defensive military alliance is only a "threat" if you have plans to invade at some point and don't want them to be able to protect themselves.
I don't think that's true, especially with modern technology. The Cuba missile crisis was the response to us putting nuclear missiles in countries near the USSR, so they in turn put some in Cuba. The "threat" wasn't in invasion by Cuba, it was Cuba having the ability to strike American cities. Ukraine, to my knowledge, does not have that kind of technology, but I have a hard time with the notion that Russia wouldn't be concerned with Ukraine being an unfriendly neighbor that is trying to up their military technology and having the assistance of several other countries.
We invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and threw out their governments on a similar (if much less realistic) basis, in that Iraq supposedly had weapons of mass destruction and Afghanistan was harboring people we wanted to kill or capture.
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Except that the threat isn't of an invasion of Russia by Ukraine. Literally none of history suggests that.
NATO has been a defensive alliance for ~70 years with a track record of, well, not invading Russia. The former Soviet Bloc states that wanted to join NATO did so not to invade Russia, but to be protected from it.
Russia has piles and piles of nuclear weapons and MAD is still a thing, so he's got quite the deterrent against invasion, should it occur [which it won't].
The idea that Ukraine is a "threat" because they they have weapons and want to join a defensive military alliance is only a "threat" if you have plans to invade at some point and don't want them to be able to protect themselves.
well said beta
I really dont think Putin considers Ukraine a threat
Hes just a bully and wants Ukraine to try to restore Russia back to the old days
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I don't think that's true, especially with modern technology. The Cuba missile crisis was the response to us putting nuclear missiles in countries near the USSR, so they in turn put some in Cuba. The "threat" wasn't in invasion by Cuba, it was Cuba having the ability to strike American cities. Ukraine, to my knowledge, does not have that kind of technology, but I have a hard time with the notion that Russia wouldn't be concerned with Ukraine being an unfriendly neighbor that is trying to up their military technology and having the assistance of several other countries.
We invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and threw out their governments on a similar (if much less realistic) basis, in that Iraq supposedly had weapons of mass destruction and Afghanistan was harboring people we wanted to kill or capture.
yes I agree and if Ukraine were going to get ICBMs Putin would be much more justified
but thats not the case so using the Cuban Missile Crisis as an example to try and justify Putins actions is just off base
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Except that the threat isn't of an invasion of Russia by Ukraine. Literally none of history suggests that.
NATO has been a defensive alliance for ~70 years with a track record of, well, not invading Russia. The former Soviet Bloc states that wanted to join NATO did so not to invade Russia, but to be protected from it.
Russia has piles and piles of nuclear weapons and MAD is still a thing, so he's got quite the deterrent against invasion, should it occur [which it won't].
The idea that Ukraine is a "threat" because they they have weapons and want to join a defensive military alliance is only a "threat" if you have plans to invade at some point and don't want them to be able to protect themselves.
this is hilariously one-sided thinking. NATO = the good guys. Just defensive, eh. Why? Because we say so? Iraq and Afghanistan blunders- just defensive, right? Bombing the shit out of Yugoslavia, just defensive, right? Syria, Libya, just defensive right? NATO members collaborated with their leader- the US in all of these misadventures. Call it whatever you want- but it's a MILITARY ALLIANCE. Lead by what is by far the most powerful military and country on planet earth. NATO by the way, was created before The Warsaw Pact. The Warsaw Pact was created 6 or 7 years after NATO and was created as a response to NATO and to the remilitarization of West Germany. I'm sure they were thinking: a re-armed Germany- the country that had literally just killed tens of millions of people and wrecked the entire world twice from 1914 to 1945 - what could possibly go wrong?
NATO is a toy of the worlds greatest superpower, the United States- used to protect energy supply chains and shipping lanes and to maintain hegemony over Europe. That's basically what it is in a nutshell. Russia has valid reason not to trust and to be weary of the US. Only a nation of absolute fools would trust the United States. Damn near every single US player from the Cold War era condemned, railed, and warned against Clinton and Bush II's expansion of NATO. Almost everyone.
Ukraine in NATO is viewed as unacceptable for Russia. It would devastate their defensive lines- and make it impossible for them to halt any kind of land invasion. MAD would be a thing for sure that you could argue would bring peace of mind against invasion- if the ABM Treaty wasn't ripped to shreds in 2002- by.....the United States. IF serious breakthroughs were made by ABM tech- and US had high capability to destroy Russian nukes- they gain first strike capability and MAD is a thing of the past. The possibility that this might happen- you can bet Russian military planners have thought about it.
This video right here from about 4 min to 9 min mark....does a great job explaining the importance Ukraine to them in terms of geography to push back any potential land invasion- and why they don't really care too much about the Baltics as a threat...because they could easily surround and cut the Baltics off in the event of invasion...a Ukraine in NATO- they'd be wide open to invasion with no way to stop it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE
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this is hilariously one-sided thinking. NATO = the good guys. Just defensive, eh. Why? Because we say so? Iraq and Afghanistan blunders- just defensive, right? Bombing the shit out of Yugoslavia, just defensive, right? Syria, Libya, just defensive right? NATO members collaborated with their leader- the US in all of these misadventures. Call it whatever you want- but it's a MILITARY ALLIANCE. Lead by what is by far the most powerful military and country on planet earth. NATO by the way, was created before The Warsaw Pact. The Warsaw Pact was created 6 or 7 years after NATO and was created as a response to NATO and to the remilitarization of West Germany. I'm sure they were thinking: a re-armed Germany- the country that had literally just killed tens of millions of people and wrecked the entire world twice from 1914 to 1945 - what could possibly go wrong?
NATO is a toy of the worlds greatest superpower, the United States- used to protect energy supply chains and shipping lanes and to maintain hegemony over Europe. That's basically what it is in a nutshell. Russia has valid reason not to trust and to be weary of the US. Only a nation of absolute fools would trust the United States. Damn near every single US player from the Cold War era condemned, railed, and warned against Clinton and Bush II's expansion of NATO. Almost everyone.
Ukraine in NATO is viewed as unacceptable for Russia. It would devastate their defensive lines- and make it impossible for them to halt any kind of land invasion. MAD would be a thing for sure that you could argue would bring peace of mind against invasion- if the ABM Treaty wasn't ripped to shreds in 2002- by.....the United States. IF serious breakthroughs were made by ABM tech- and US had high capability to destroy Russian nukes- they gain first strike capability and MAD is a thing of the past. The possibility that this might happen- you can bet Russian military planners have thought about it.
This video right here from about 4 min to 9 min mark....does a great job explaining the importance Ukraine to them in terms of geography to push back any potential land invasion- and why they don't really care too much about the Baltics as a threat...because they could easily surround and cut the Baltics off in the event of invasion...a Ukraine in NATO- they'd be wide open to invasion with no way to stop it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE
so Russia could strengthen its defense by taking over Ukraine
so what gives them the right just because its useful to them
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during the history of NATO there has never been an action by them of invading or even attacking another nation
however during that same period Russia has invaded several countries
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so Russia could strengthen its defense by taking over Ukraine
so what gives them the right just because its useful to them
what gives any country the right to do anything? Nothing I suppose. Just power and the ability to do it. Russia wasn't invading Ukraine from 1991 to 2013. The Ukraine/NATO thing is a matter of life and death for them. And they've been bitching about it since 2008- when Ukraine was offered an open ended membership- which was a deal brokered by the British- as Bush II in his infinite wisdom wanted to make them members immediately- but France and Germany were vehemently against that. And Russia didn't do anything about it until the US-backed coup in 2014 and the aftermath which saw a new government in Ukraine continue to push hard for NATO. If US had just stayed out maybe that coup isn't successful and if they formally revoke Ukraine's open-ended "were gonna let you in, but really never gonna let you in anytime soon" invitation - this shit probably doesn't happen.
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I guess maybe TODAY will be the first day in all of history, when someone on the internet convinces someone else on the internet to change her or his mind.
Oh wait, no it won't. :)
😂😂😂
i’ve been following this thread from the beginning but haven’t posted much. That’s because I just like to hear other perspectives and learn a few things so I fall into the category of “no need to change my mind because my mind isn’t made up about anything.”
truth be told I have learned several new things from reading others. Some factual data that I either did not know or hadn’t remembered.
I have to also admit that there have been some very humorous things in this thread despite the fact that the subject is not humorous at all and is very sad. I will also admit there are some people in here that are convinced they know everything.
go figure, a bunch of knuckleheads on a college football fan board, solving all the worlds problems. Who knew?
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during the history of NATO there has never been an action by them of invading or even attacking another nation
yeah, so this just is not factually true.
And I'm sure they're far more worried about US than NATO. NATO is literally a big nothing without the US.
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what gives any country the right to do anything? Nothing I suppose. Just power and the ability to do it. Russia wasn't invading Ukraine from 1991 to 2013. The Ukraine/NATO thing is a matter of life and death for them. And they've been bitching about it since 2008- when Ukraine was offered an open ended membership- which was a deal brokered by the British- as Bush II in his infinite wisdom wanted to make them members immediately- but France and Germany were vehemently against that. And Russia didn't do anything about it until the US-backed coup in 2014 and the aftermath which saw a new government in Ukraine continue to push hard for NATO. If US had just stayed out maybe that coup isn't successful and if they formally revoke Ukraine's open-ended "were gonna let you in, but really never gonna let you in anytime soon" invitation - this shit probably doesn't happen.
You keep bringing that up,it's nothing but a big what if.If it was that much of a threat then Russia would have went in then.Makes no sense to go in any time really unless there was a benefit - a big one
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go figure, a bunch of knuckleheads on a college football fan board, solving all the worlds problems. Who knew?
well i suppose we could put Saban in Charge of some country over there and see how well that worx
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You keep bringing that up,it's nothing but a big what if.If it was that much of a threat then Russia would have went in then.Makes no sense to go in any time really unless there was a benefit - a big one
yeah, except that NATO threat never existed from 1991 to 2007 - because there was no NATO membership offer on the table. And from 2008 - 2013, there were neutral or even Pro-Russian governments in Ukraine which helped slow the roll for the push to NATO. So the NATO issue was a hot button topic, and since it was an open ended invitation with no date in sight- it wasn't blinking red and that hot button topic can kept getting kicked down the road instead of resolved.
Once the US-backed a coup of a democratically elected government in 2014- and the government that followed was not pro-russian or even neutral- but openly anti-russian and pro-US/EU/NATO - that is when as they say the shit hit the fan. The new Ukraine gov't banning Russian language in schools and in govt/business, shutting down opposition/pro-russian media outlets, putting opposition leaders on house arrest with no real charges, and amending their constitution in 2019 to bake NATO membership into law- and pressing NATO for a firm date and declaring they want firm answers from NATO on when they will be allowed to join and that they intend to join as early as 2023 but no later than 2030- is what stopped the can from being continually kicked down the road.
Ukraine does not have a right to join NATO. There is no such thing as an inalienable right of a country to join a military alliance controlled by the United States. US could've nixed that in the ass effective immediately by forcing NATO to withdraw that open ended invitation and declare countries that are in the Corruption Indexes top 10 most corrupt countries in the entire world can never join NATO.
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this is result of the war and trying to lessen effects of sanctions, so i think it goes here. we can move if most disagree...
https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2022/03/02/statement-from-roman-abramovich?utm_source=tw&utm_medium=orgsoc&utm_campaign=none
russian billionaire, oligarch, and close friends to kremlin/putin, roman ambromovich, is selling chelsea fc, one of the biggest, richest, and most successful soccer clubs in the uk and world.
the sale will be handled by a us bank
he (roman) will not ask for any of his personal loans to the club be paid back (~$1.5b)
a charity foundation will be set up and profit from sale will go into it, with intended purpose to help victims of ukraine war, incluing urgent/immediate needs and long term rebuilding projects
don't want to jump the gun, but looks like good move at first sight.
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well i suppose we could put Saban in Charge of some country over there and see how well that worx
I think that dude would conquer all of Europe like he's conquered all of college football.
He'd be scary as a head of state.
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yeah, so this just is not factually true.
And I'm sure they're far more worried about US than NATO. NATO is literally a big nothing without the US.
what was untrue
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this is result of the war and trying to lessen effects of sanctions, so i think it goes here. we can move if most disagree...
https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2022/03/02/statement-from-roman-abramovich?utm_source=tw&utm_medium=orgsoc&utm_campaign=none
russian billionaire, oligarch, and close friends to kremlin/putin, roman ambromovich, is selling chelsea fc, one of the biggest, richest, and most successful soccer clubs in the uk and world.
the sale will be handled by a us bank
he (roman) will not ask for any of his personal loans to the club be paid back (~$1.5b)
a charity foundation will be set up and profit from sale will go into it, with intended purpose to help victims of ukraine war, incluing urgent/immediate needs and long term rebuilding projects
don't want to jump the gun, but looks like good move at first sight.
damn. I'd still ask for my loans back. Lol.
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this is result of the war and trying to lessen effects of sanctions, so i think it goes here. we can move if most disagree...
https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2022/03/02/statement-from-roman-abramovich?utm_source=tw&utm_medium=orgsoc&utm_campaign=none
russian billionaire, oligarch, and close friends to kremlin/putin, roman ambromovich, is selling chelsea fc, one of the biggest, richest, and most successful soccer clubs in the uk and world.
the sale will be handled by a us bank
he (roman) will not ask for any of his personal loans to the club be paid back (~$1.5b)
a charity foundation will be set up and profit from sale will go into it, with intended purpose to help victims of ukraine war, incluing urgent/immediate needs and long term rebuilding projects
don't want to jump the gun, but looks like good move at first sight.
and just read it...very cool he'll be donating billions to charity for Ukraine relief. wonder if Putin is pissed about that.
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go figure, a bunch of knuckleheads on a college football fan board, solving all the worlds problems. Who knew?
right, if only the ptb would ask us.
well i suppose we could put Saban in Charge of some country over there and see how well that worx
he's busy, call back later.
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he's busy, call back later.
I think someone should offer him a lot of money to run europe. maybe everyone else will finally have a chance in CFB if he leaves. although kirby did beat him this year....might've been just a one year deal. Bama looks poised to take it all in 2022.
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Ukraine does not have a right to join NATO. There is no such thing as an inalienable right of a country to join a military alliance.
So you're saying that a sovereign nation doesn't have a right to choose to join a military alliance, if that alliance will have them?
And Russia has the moral or legal authority to override the choice of that sovereign nation via invasion?
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Mdot's views
US bad and you cant trust them
Ukraine has no right to act like a free nation
Putin bad too but justified in this current action
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Several more pages of irrelevant mumbo-jumbo, anybody changed their minds yet?
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nope not me
Putin is still a bad dude that needs to be exterminated
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Several more pages of irrelevant mumbo-jumbo, anybody changed their minds yet?
Meh
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https://twitter.com/kayiveyforgov/status/1499066388803108868
what are your states doing? slackers :)
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time to get back to the war
media sources are saying Putin is targeting civilians and is blocking their evacuation
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https://twitter.com/kayiveyforgov/status/1499066388803108868
what are your states doing? slackers :)
we Texans are hoarding tacos
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He's definitely targeting civilians, he's been doing that pretty much since the beginning. It's only getting worse and sadly, I think we ain't seen nothing yet.
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https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499081454520868868?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499081454520868868%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnexta_tv%2Fstatus%2F1499081454520868868%3Fs%3D2026t%3DVVLtlHGj-tRPElOJQfQYoA
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https://twitter.com/kayiveyforgov/status/1499066388803108868
what are your states doing? slackers :)
Our social media sites are hosting the opinions of very aggrieved millennials!
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Millennials are people, too!
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So you're saying that a sovereign nation doesn't have a right to choose to join a military alliance, if that alliance will have them?
And Russia has the moral or legal authority to override the choice of that sovereign nation via invasion?
this is a hilariously foolish and naive way of thinking about international politics. i repeat again, no nation has a right to join a military alliance. a nation has a right to defend itself from attack, sure. but that's a vastly different thing however from joining the military alliance of the most powerful country on earth. there was a mountain of diplomats, scholars, and politicians who were real players in US during the cold war- and almost all of them railed and warned against NATO expansion, and predicted the outcome we have now would be likely. turns out- they were right.
And who said anything about moral or legal authority? Not I. Moral or legal authority has not much relevance to this conversation. Countries either do or don't do something based on power and ability. There's no morality to it. States act in what they think is their best interests and they react to things they perceive as threats. Morality isn't a part of the equation. And if you're talking about an arbiter of morality- well..the US is certainly not that. What moral or legal authority does/did the United States have to interfere with the internal affairs of a sovereign nation like they did in Ukraine in 2014 and have been doing since? Oh yeah, none. They just do it, because: they can. Ukraine happens to live in a bad neighborhood, surrounded by a much bigger, badder, and tougher neighbor. That just is what it is, and it's not the US's problem. And it is probably not wise to poke the bear lest ye get poked back. And that neighbor was mostly fine leaving them alone- until a new vehemently anti-russian government overthrew a democratically elected one (with US support) and decided they wanted to accelerate joining said military alliance.
Anybody could've predicted (any many in fact did) that bringing in countries to a hostile military alliance on Russia's borders- but more specifically, the most important country to those borders- was going to do nothing but put in danger everyones national security.
And said alliance isn't having them. As far as I can tell they've been kicking that can down the road and it appears that they're using them as a proxy. US gains nothing by bringing Ukraine into it's orbit and picking it off from Moscow's. Literally nothing. It is of no strategic value or importance to the US, as Obama admitted in 2016 in an interview with The Atlantic. Yet his VP flew there like 14 or 15 times, and his head of the CIA flew there multiple times as well. Which is sort of weird when you consider they just do not mean anything to the United States global interests. The only strategic value I could possibly see from them is using them as a pawn to goad and incite Russia into what it's doing right now- which is stupidly get involved in an illegal invasion that will drain them economically and militarily, get their economy crushed with sanctions and ostracize and extricate them from the entire world financial system, and finally push them out of Europe forever- where they had been growing more and more influential and powerful via EU energy dependance- and secure US hegemony in Europe for the foreseeable future- and let Russia get bled slowly into the dirt forever.
Unless US was going to finally figure out a away to get Germany and France to finally agree to letting Ukraine in NATO (they weren't) or to sign some sort of pact with Ukraine that explicitly stated they would defend Ukraine should Russia invade (not sure 2/3rd Senate pass it though) none of the refusal to negotiate makes a whole lot of sense. They had to have known this was an option. It seems as if they armed Ukraine to the teeth and have basically just used Ukraine as a pawn- and said to hell with it and let them wrecked, no skin off our backs - we're not committing troops or going to war- not our problem if people die. You want to talk about morality? Seems like if you have the power to prevent a war, you should exercise options to at least try to stop it. US refused to even discuss halting NATO expansion and revoking Ukraine's open ended invitation.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/ukraines-deadly-gamble
https://www.cato.org/commentary/us-should-close-door-ukrainian-membership-nato
https://www.ft.com/content/b5886606-4d7d-41af-87c1-8d9993722e51
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https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499081454520868868?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499081454520868868%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnexta_tv%2Fstatus%2F1499081454520868868%3Fs%3D2026t%3DVVLtlHGj-tRPElOJQfQYoA
yeah, think this will just lead to bad things in regards to the future of crypto. it was bound to happen anyway, states can't allow competition to their central banks' currency- seems like they found the perfect excuse they need to crack down on them. any measures they make will of course become permanent.
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what are your states doing? slackers :)
Busy fighting a war against DC. ;)
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Millennials are people, too!
Bullshit.
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https://twitter.com/leee_zah/status/1499104369798565890?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499104369798565890%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fleee_zah%2Fstatus%2F1499104369798565890
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https://twitter.com/leee_zah/status/1499104369798565890?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499104369798565890%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fleee_zah%2Fstatus%2F1499104369798565890
f**k that's pathetic, how do you arrest a woman who has clearly got to be in her 90s?
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this is a hilariously foolish and naive way of thinking about international politics. i repeat again, no nation has a right to join a military alliance. a nation has a right to defend itself from attack, sure. but that's a vastly different thing however from joining the military alliance of the most powerful country on earth. there was a mountain of diplomats, scholars, and politicians who were real players in US during the cold war- and almost all of them railed and warned against NATO expansion, and predicted the outcome we have now would be likely. turns out- they were right.
If a nation is free and independent it has a right to join a military alliance for defense purposes.
The fact that it might be an unwise move does not take away this right
Just because some were concerned that NATO expansion might incite Russia is not a valid reason to not join NATO
Plain and simple what Putin is doing is a war crime and he should be tried for it
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Millennials are people, too!
Yeah, but they might not all identify as people.
You can't generalize like that, 94, or you'll get cancelled.
You have to ask each individual millennial whether they identify as people before you make blanket statements and further marginalize an already maligned community.
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If a nation is free and independent it has a right to join a military alliance for defense purposes.
Except, it doesn't. Joining NATO is a privilege, not a right. And as far as we can tell, they've been mostly played- as NATO has not allowed them in going on 14 years now- and this open-ended will they/won't they/yeah but they will someday - has done nobody any good.
The fact that it might be an unwise move does not take away this right.
Unwise? More like clinically insane. And, again it's not a right.
Just because some were concerned that NATO expansion might incite Russia is not a valid reason to not join NATO.
It's not really up to Ukraine when/if they get to join NATO. They have an open ended invitation that was due to a compromise brokered by the British. And they probably would have never gotten that open ended invitation if not for one incredibly stupid, disastrous man....Bush II. And they've been demanding to know when they will be joining ever since- and US/NATO just keeps kicking that can down the road and telling them...sooon....trust us...soon...don't worry....one day.
Plain and simple what Putin is doing is a war crime and he should be tried for it.
You'll get no argument from me there. I'd love to try Bush II and Cheney while we're at it.
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Except, it doesn't. Joining NATO is a privilege, not a right.
Joining a military alliance is a right--contingent on there actually being a willingness to admit you.
Just like freedom of speech is a right--but nobody is required to print your views.
If NATO extended an invitation, and Ukraine wanted to join, then no third party (i.e. Russia) has a right to stop them.
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https://twitter.com/Forbes/status/1499128423947636739?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499128423947636739%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FForbes%2Fstatus%2F1499128423947636739
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Except, it doesn't. Joining NATO is a privilege, not a right. And as far as we can tell, they've been mostly played- as NATO has not allowed them in going on 14 years now- and this open-ended will they/won't they/yeah but they will someday - has done nobody any good.
Unwise? More like clinically insane. And, again it's not a right.
It's not really up to Ukraine when/if they get to join NATO. They have an open ended invitation that was due to a compromise brokered by the British. And they probably would have never gotten that open ended invitation if not for one incredibly stupid, disastrous man....Bush II. And they've been demanding to know when they will be joining ever since- and US/NATO just keeps kicking that can down the road and telling them...sooon....trust us...soon...don't worry....one day.
You'll get no argument from me there. I'd love to try Bush II and Cheney while we're at it.
ok we are talking past each other
of course they have to be approved first but if they are then its their right to join sheeesh
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Millennials are people, too!
what are the ones after millienials? cause I don't think they actually are people. i don't know what they are.
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https://twitter.com/Forbes/status/1499128423947636739?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499128423947636739%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FForbes%2Fstatus%2F1499128423947636739
woah nellie. these guys getting squeezed might be what causes Putin to go down. i'd rather see them take the hits then regular old joes in Russia getting crushed.
not sure what the legal justification is for seizing private property however. a private citizen does not = the actions of his country. I think he'll probably be able to fight it and win. not sure what private property laws are like in germany.
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You can freeze an asset without seizing it. I'm sure they intend to give it back. Just about the same time Putin is dead and Russia pulls completely out of Ukraine.
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https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1499132100888387588?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499132100888387588%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FHannaLiubakova%2Fstatus%2F1499132100888387588
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So you're saying that a sovereign nation doesn't have a right to choose to join a military alliance, if that alliance will have them?
And Russia has the moral or legal authority to override the choice of that sovereign nation via invasion?
Does a sovereign nation have a right to develop a nuclear weapon? We have certainly been pretty interested in keeping that from happening, depending on the nation. Russia has a right to security, and a neighboring state joining an alliance with powerful armies, receiving weapons from those nations, and generally being unwilling to negotiate is not a recipe for Russia to feel secure.
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Does a sovereign nation have a right to develop a nuclear weapon? We have certainly been pretty interested in keeping that from happening, depending on the nation. Russia has a right to security, and a neighboring state joining an alliance with powerful armies, receiving weapons from those nations, and generally being unwilling to negotiate is not a recipe for Russia to feel secure.
And being invaded and murdered by Russia, is not a recipe for Ukraine to feel secure.
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And being invaded and murdered by Russia, is not a recipe for Ukraine to feel secure.
Certainly not.
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It's sort of interesting thinking about "rights of nations", I could probably write a book on that no one would read, maybe it's been done.
A sovereign nation basically has a right to do anything it wants and has the capability to do, there can be repercussions of course. There is no global contract or list of laws governing nations, outside specific treaties. There is the UN, yes, and they can use harsh language.
Ukraine has a right to join NATO if invited, and NATO has a right to invite, or not invite. But this seems ancillary to me. I'm still confused by the media reports, realizing how off they can be.
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Does a sovereign nation have a right to develop a nuclear weapon? We have certainly been pretty interested in keeping that from happening, depending on the nation. Russia has a right to security, and a neighboring state joining an alliance with powerful armies, receiving weapons from those nations, and generally being unwilling to negotiate is not a recipe for Russia to feel secure.
If they have signed the NNPT, then legally, no.
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In the Ludendorf Offensive of 1918, one thing that slowed the advance was German troops stopping in French towns to eat (and drink). They didn't have nearly enough food.
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Does a sovereign nation have a right to develop a nuclear weapon? We have certainly been pretty interested in keeping that from happening, depending on the nation. Russia has a right to security, and a neighboring state joining an alliance with powerful armies, receiving weapons from those nations, and generally being unwilling to negotiate is not a recipe for Russia to feel secure.
within their borders, sure. it's when they extend those security concerns outside those borders that they're infringing on another nation's rights to their own security.
if they want their bordering neighbors to stop seeking other forms of security that opposes russian interest, maybe russia should stop giving them reason to seek those alternatives.
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(https://i.imgur.com/PZM99r8.jpg)
Take this with a grain, but it's probably somewhat accurate.
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within their borders, sure. it's when they extend those security concerns outside those borders that they're infringing on another nation's rights to their own security.
if they want their bordering neighbors to stop seeking other forms of security that opposes russian interest, maybe russia should stop giving them reason to seek those alternatives.
Exactly. Why do former bloc nations want NATO membership? Because they want protection from Russia.
And Putin just showed them why they need it.
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Russia confirms casualties in Ukraine for the 1st time : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/03/02/1083968591/russia-ukraine-deaths-war)
If this photo is reasonably informative, Russia is taking a beating.
(https://i.imgur.com/jputhFf.png)
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Joining a military alliance is a right--contingent on there actually being a willingness to admit you.
Just like freedom of speech is a right--but nobody is required to print your views.
If NATO extended an invitation, and Ukraine wanted to join, then no third party (i.e. Russia) has a right to stop them.
not seeing how that is a right. does Russia have a right to join NATO? does Cuba? No country has a right to join a military alliance.
A right is something that cannot be taken away, nor is it given to you by anyone. NATO membership can be taken away, and it's given to countries by other NATO members (specifically the United States). It's not like freedom of speech. At all really.
Russia has legitimate security concerns and grievances- but that does not give them a right to invade another country. And I've never said as much, nor would I ever. I don't think any country has the right to invade another one. Countries have a right to defend themselves from invasion like Ukraine is doing right now, but that's about it in my view. Maybe also a right to security- but that's questionable to me as security can be open to interpretation. Russia is invading Ukraine not because they have some right to do so, they are doing so simply because they can. They are a much larger neighboring country with 100+ million more people, they have an economy almost 10x the size of Ukraine's, and they have a vastly larger and superior military. Countries don't do what they do because of any rights or morality. They do what they do because they either have the power to do something or they don't. Ukraine is not a powerful enough country to think it can incite tensions with Russia and expect no response from Russia. Unfortunately, they have to take into account the concerns of their much more powerful neighbor in order to ensure their security- that is just the reality of the situation. Things are what they are. Not what we wish them to be.
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It's pretty obvious what is meant by "right to join NATO". If NATO offers membership, a country can join it. If not, they can't. Simple, no? No need to bandy minor details about terminology.
A country has a right to engage in any alliance with other countries that agree to the joining. But in reality a country has a right to do anything it wants, or that it's leaders want. Russia has a "right" to invade Ukraine, probably not under international law, whatever that means.
A country can do anything, but there can be repercussions.
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If they have signed the NNPT, then legally, no.
Even this seems questionable to me. Countries and governments come and go. How many countries that were signatories to that treaty have seen their governments overthrown and constitutions changed and entire country/political system change since signing? Probably many. Why should the new country or government be burdened by old treaties they didn't agree to?
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They can if they wish leave the NNPT. It's part of the treaty. To the extent a treaty is a legal obligation, building a nuke as a signee would be illegal.
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The Javelin Missile - Tank Historia (https://tankhistoria.com/modern-day/javelin-missile/?fbclid=IwAR36pTa3Q62X-NJjpg_NHA6yPdrVsAJ0lKzb55kZNssOfl3NnbEjm_b_X4I)
In the warhead is a tandem charge, containing two shaped charges. Tandem warheads are devastating as the first charge eliminates any protection systems, like explosive reactive armor (ERA), paving the way for the main charge to get to work against the actual armor.
As it is not wire guided like earlier weapons and has its own on board guidance system, the Javelin can hit targets up to 2,500 meters away. This also enables the operators to relocate, take cover or even fire a second missile before impact.
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftankhistoria.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2022%2F03%2F1-27_Top_attack_flight_path..png&hash=2796a5d8eda2f7687777c671c9e98239)The flight path of a Javelin missile.
Its direct-attack capabilities allow it to be used in confined spaces (where there isn’t room for the missile to climb upwards) or even against helicopters.
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https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1499132100888387588?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499132100888387588%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FHannaLiubakova%2Fstatus%2F1499132100888387588
See, this is what we're dealing with.
People give Russia too much respect. They're a dude who looks like he can bench 500 lbs, but can't squat 100.
Just because they have some nukes they won't/can't really use doesn't mean much to me.
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See, this is what we're dealing with.
People give Russia too much respect. They're a dude who looks like he can bench 500 lbs, but can't squat 100.
Just because they have some nukes they won't/can't really use doesn't mean much to me.
It's a fair point. They're the guy that only works arms and chest, never back, and always skips leg day.
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https://twitter.com/anders_aslund/status/1499112149263831043?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499112149263831043%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fanders_aslund%2Fstatus%2F1499112149263831043%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1499112149263831043257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es1_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16
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Just because they have some nukes they won't/can't really use doesn't mean much to me.
They have thousands of nukes, most deliverable. It's not a great situation if their leadership goes unstable.
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within their borders, sure. it's when they extend those security concerns outside those borders that they're infringing on another nation's rights to their own security.
if they want their bordering neighbors to stop seeking other forms of security that opposes russian interest, maybe russia should stop giving them reason to seek those alternatives.
Certainly raises the key issue. We have invaded several countries to alleviate our security concerns, arguably with a lot flimsier pretexts compared to what Russia has done. You can say, hey, that's politics or irrelevant or whatever you like, but it still happened and perhaps exacerbates the situation, where Russia doesn't see any success diplomatically and therefore sees military force as the only solution.
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But what about...
I'll play. What about Ukraine? Just sitting there getting invaded and murdered?
You know, the reason for this thread?
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But what about...
I'll play. What about Ukraine? Just sitting there getting invaded and murdered?
You know, the reason for this thread?
Yes. What about them. Do they have any motivation to stop the invasion?
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In the Ludendorf Offensive of 1918, one thing that slowed the advance was German troops stopping in French towns to eat (and drink). They didn't have nearly enough food.
Sherman's Army ate good on their march
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Yes. What about them. Do they have any motivation to stop the invasion?
Yup.
Probably even moreso as more and more civilians are slaughtered in Putin's murderous undertaking.
https://twitter.com/PaulaChertok/status/1499152677636247555?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499152677636247555%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FPaulaChertok%2Fstatus%2F1499152677636247555%3Fs%3D2026t%3DA8HdygggfEIlepQb36dmwA
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But forget all that, it seems far more important to discuss how Ukraine was so threatening to Putin that he had to undertake slaughtering its citizens (and anyone else that happened to be in the area at the time).
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But forget all that, it seems far more important to discuss how Ukraine was so threatening to Putin that he had to undertake slaughtering its citizens (and anyone else that happened to be in the area at the time).
yes and hes justified caused he warned us years ago he would do this
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yes and hes justified caused he warned us years ago he would do this
Indeed it's Russia's right to murder its neighbors.
I learned that right here on this thread from some really smart stable geniuses.
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Even this seems questionable to me. Countries and governments come and go. How many countries that were signatories to that treaty have seen their governments overthrown and constitutions changed and entire country/political system change since signing? Probably many. Why should the new country or government be burdened by old treaties they didn't agree to?
by that same token, why should treaties burden themselves with new/overthrown governments?
which would mean that russia isn't a member of the un, nor a perm member of the security council.
russia assumed the responsibilities of the old ussr, and thus to reap the benefits they should also be obliged to the burdens.
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But forget all that, it seems far more important to discuss how Ukraine was so threatening to Putin that he had to undertake slaughtering its citizens (and anyone else that happened to be in the area at the time).
Yes, it is, because if the goal is for it to stop and minimize casualties then understanding the motivations of the people involved seems pretty danged important.
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Yes, it is, because if the goal is for it to stop and minimize casualties then understanding the motivations of the people involved seems pretty danged important.
I'm confident that I understand the motivations of Putin. And that MDot doesn't.
The only thing that's going to stop the casualties is Putin's death, at this point.
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Certainly raises the key issue. We have invaded
how is that remotely a key issue here?
a prior us invasion of a country completely unrelated to any party involved here, justified or not, has no bearing on this war. i can't use some other guy hitting his girlfriend as an excuse to attack a 4th person just because they know the guy and are friendly.
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I'm confident that I understand the motivations of Putin. And that MDot doesn't.
The only thing that's going to stop the casualties is Putin's death, at this point.
i won't say his death, but certainly his removal from power. death is only one means of that, though. and maybe preferable.
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Why should a person who gets a name change be held responsible for the actions of or debts accrued by their former name?
What if they announce that they no longer identify as that former person?
What if they undergo a gender change and aren't even really the same person?
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how is that remotely a key issue here?
a prior us invasion of a country completely unrelated to any party involved here, justified or not, has no bearing on this war. i can't use some other guy hitting his girlfriend as an excuse to attack a 4th person just because they know the guy and are friendly.
Well, if our goal is to solve the crisis using diplomacy and non-military sanctions, then it makes a difference. You probably wouldn't go to O.J. to help save your marriage.
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i won't say his death, but certainly his removal from power. death is only one means of that, though. and maybe preferable.
Yeah I'm just cutting to the chase, because I don't see any way he leaves power, other than by death.
But sure if he could somehow be removed from power whilst still living, and his successor completely withdraws all forces from all parts of Ukraine and signs a treaty never to invade again, then that could also end it.
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Why should a person who gets a name change be held responsible for the actions of or debts accrued by their former name?
What if they announce that they no longer identify as that former person?
What if they undergo a gender change and aren't even really the same person?
ok when Puttinella shows up we'll be nice to her
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Yes, it is, because if the goal is for it to stop and minimize casualties then understanding the motivations of the people involved seems pretty danged important.
Sam did you fall out of the Hindenberg FFS? If these thugs just waylayed your family,I mean really a mortar takes out your wife and kids or worse leaves them dying slowly in front of you. The 1st thing tumbling off your tongue is "um hey Andrei,Boris,Sergei what is your motivation,ya know just so we understand what makes you tic so as we won't upset you as you fillet our people and plunder our homes
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Sam did you fall out of the Hindenberg FFS? If these thugs just waylayed your family,I mean really a mortar takes out your wife and kids or worse leaves them dying slowly in front of you. The 1st thing tumbling off your tongue is "um hey Andrei,Boris,Sergei what is your motivation,ya know just so we understand what makes you tic so as we won't upset you as you fillet our people and plunder our homes
Well, sure. That's the main reason the Taliban was able to recapture Afghanistan despite severe deficits military technology - having your family hit with a mortar doesn't increase local support. But I'm not talking about the effects of war, which are of course awful. The why is a much more interesting question and probably more effective at ending the conflict.
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Well, sure. That's the main reason the Taliban was able to recapture Afghanistan despite severe deficits military technology - having your family hit with a mortar doesn't increase local support. But I'm not talking about the effects of war, which are of course awful. The why is a much more interesting question and probably more effective at ending the conflict.
yep its too bad we didnt spend more time during WW2 trying to figure out why Hitler was doing what he was doing
It probably would have shortened the war and saved lives
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Well, sure. That's the main reason the Taliban was able to recapture Afghanistan despite severe deficits military technology - having your family hit with a mortar doesn't increase local support. But I'm not talking about the effects of war, which are of course awful. The why is a much more interesting question and probably more effective at ending the conflict.
So you fell out of the Hindenberg? That explains it.Interesting to who?People are getting pounded and occupying army is grabbing everything to use to prosecute their means to an end. The ocuppied reserves specially in food and gas are being taken also - an to you that's interesting.Brute force is the only way - unfortunately
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Why should a person who gets a name change be held responsible for the actions of or debts accrued by their former name?
What if they announce that they no longer identify as that former person?
What if they undergo a gender change and aren't even really the same person?
94 did you fall out of the Hindenberg?
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94 did you fall out of the Hindenberg?
Don't think so.
I did once fall off my boat when we were anchored down in a cove, deep in a no wake zone and some jackwagon came blazing through full throttle.
But I was able to keep my beer level and above water, so, crisis averted.
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Russia confirms casualties in Ukraine for the 1st time : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/03/02/1083968591/russia-ukraine-deaths-war)
If this photo is reasonably informative, Russia is taking a beating.
(https://i.imgur.com/jputhFf.png)
It appears they are paying a high price to achieve their objective- given what is in this photo and others - and what we now know to be happening economically to Russia’s own citizens.
But if you look at that map you posted upthread, and numerous other ones I have seen elsewhere, it also appears they are SLOWLY achieving that objective. Russian history tells us that they are more than willing to pay heavily to earn what they consider victory. Call them the weakling at the gym all you want- they typically don’t just go away.
And that’s what makes this tragedy even scarier, at least to me. How extreme will this apparently unstable leader go to win, and If pressed against the wall by others- how will he react. And worse/ if he wins his objective in the long run with little resistance on the battlefield- how emboldened will he then be.
I will hope for a better end- but this has so much potential for a grave new direction.
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NASCAR team owner Richard Childress to provide 1 million rounds of ammo to Ukraine defense efforts.
(https://i.imgur.com/Xp3NM77.png)
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this is just stage 1
after Russia takes the cities stage 2 will start
which is the insurgency
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I'm not sure why, but the visual in this tweet, of a civilian cop car rolling up on military vehicles, amuses me.
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1499020047297265673?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499041005223673856%7Ctwgr%5Ehb_1_8%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FUAWeapons%2Fstatus%2F1499041005223673856
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It appears they are paying a high price to achieve their objective- given what is in this photo and others - and what we now know to be happening economically to Russia’s own citizens.
But if you look at that map you posted upthread, and numerous other ones I have seen elsewhere, it also appears they are SLOWLY achieving that objective. Russian history tells us that they are more than willing to pay heavily to earn what they consider victory. Call them the weakling at the gym all you want- they typically don’t just go away.
And that’s what makes this tragedy even scarier, at least to me. How extreme will this apparently unstable leader go to win, and If pressed against the wall by others- how will he react. And worse/ if he wins his objective in the long run with little resistance on the battlefield- how emboldened will he then be.
I will hope for a better end- but this has so much potential for a grave new direction.
For sure, HB. Russia's leaders have always been willing to sacrifice-- and murder-- their own people, in the name of whatever their political ambitions of the moment might have been. It's deeply saddening.
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NASCAR team owner Richard Childress to provide 1 million rounds of ammo to Ukraine defense efforts.
I salute him but don't be surprised if Vlad sends some of his sluggo's like he did to the Russian ex pat in London about 10 yrs back. Borders obviously aren't a problem
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Certainly raises the key issue. We have invaded several countries to alleviate our security concerns, arguably with a lot flimsier pretexts compared to what Russia has done. You can say, hey, that's politics or irrelevant or whatever you like, but it still happened and perhaps exacerbates the situation, where Russia doesn't see any success diplomatically and therefore sees military force as the only solution.
You know, I was pretty much raised in the Republican tradition. Hence, I grew up thinking that the government was bad at most things, but that on matters of law & order, and international relations / protecting the homeland, that was where the government excelled.
I became a libertarian, officially, when I realized they're shite at that too. I can't see how those invasions actually helped, you know, protecting the homeland.
All that is irrelevant to Putin and Ukraine, though. Putin wanted to control Ukraine, a sovereign nation, to stop them from doing things he didn't want them to do, that would insulate them from his control. So he invaded.
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I salute him but don't be surprised if Vlad sends some of his sluggo's like he did to the Russian ex pat in London about 10 yrs back. Borders obviously aren't a problem
My money's on the redneck in the deep south. From what I've seen, he'll be WAY better armed than anyone involved with Russia's military.
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For sure, HB. Russia's leaders have always been willing to sacrifice-- and murder-- their own people, in the name of whatever their political ambitions of the moment might have been. It's deeply saddening.
Not sure Gorbachev,Chernenko or even Khruschev (after Stalin) purged much if anyone
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L.O.L.
https://twitter.com/SouthAsiaIndex/status/1498607419387445249?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498607419387445249%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fsouthasiaindex%2Fstatus%2F1498607419387445249%3Fs%3D21
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My money's on the redneck in the deep south. From what I've seen, he'll be WAY better armed than anyone involved with Russia's military.
As long as he knows who he's looking for.Good luck to him on delivering the shipment
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Not sure Gorbachev,Chernenko or even Khruschev (after Stalin) purged much if anyone
Yeah. So...? If they were the only Russian leaders, ever, then I guess you'd have a point?
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https://twitter.com/anders_aslund/status/1499112149263831043?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499112149263831043%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fanders_aslund%2Fstatus%2F1499112149263831043%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1499112149263831043257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es1_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16
DAMN.
Lot of Oligarchs gotta be fuming pissed at Putin right about now.
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They have thousands of nukes, most deliverable. It's not a great situation if their leadership goes unstable.
yeah, and not to mention despite the bravado, the ABM defense systems haven't proven to be all that great. most of those nukes would hit their intended targets.
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Yeah. So...? If they were the only Russian leaders, ever, then I guess you'd have a point?
The worm can turn,things were good under Mikhail Gorbachev/Boris Yeltsin(getting better anyway) - ya gotta try,right?
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most of those nukes would hit their intended targets.
not if they are designed like the ABMs
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The Aegis Ashore system is very limited in numbers and meant to intercept an accident or Iranian launch
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An accident could still mean a launch - strange game - the only winning move is not to play
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But forget all that, it seems far more important to discuss how Ukraine was so threatening to Putin that he had to undertake slaughtering its citizens (and anyone else that happened to be in the area at the time).
It was not just Putin that was bitching and warning about NATO expansion. His predecessor Yeltsin was too. Like Brzezinski said decades ago, Russia without Ukraine ceases to be a power. They were never going to let it out of their orbit. Take Putin out, put nearly any Russian leader in- result would likely be similar.
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yes and hes justified caused he warned us years ago he would do this
who said he was justified? man, reading comprehension.
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It was not just Putin that was bitching and warning about NATO expansion. His predecessor Yeltsin was too. Like Brzezinski said decades ago, Russia without Ukraine ceases to be a power. They were never going to let it out of their orbit. Take Putin out, put nearly any Russian leader in- result would likely be similar.
You don't know that Mdot and any percieved danger had long passed.At the most sabre rattling,they're not in NATO
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Indeed it's Russia's right to murder its neighbors.
I learned that right here on this thread from some really smart stable geniuses.
Who said that it was their right to murder it's neighbors? I haven't seen anyone say that once. And you're acting as if there was zero provocation by the US which lead to these course of events, that they just up and decided to invade for shits and gigs. Just because. That is not the case. To be clear- there is no justification for this or any other illegal invasion. And no country has a right to invade another.
Any Russian leader would want/need Ukraine as a buffer zone- with Ukraine in NATO- they become literally indefensible from a NATO land invasion. They'd be beyond f**ked. They simply put would not be able to halt an invasion. US could've very easily cut a deal to revoke Ukraine's open-ended NATO membership offer- not like they were getting in anytime soon- you know- seeing as they are one of the 10 most corrupt countries in the entire world. US refused to even negotiate. This leads me to the logical conclusion that the US either wanted this outcome or simply just did not give a sh*t about Ukraine. The US has used Ukraine as a pawn like they do many other inferior states- and Ukraine was stupid enough to buy our bullshit- and despite Zelenskyys pleas the US is not establishing a no fly zone or sending boots on the ground.
Had to show the Russians how big our d**ks are though, right? Just have to prove how tough we are, while Ukraine gets wrecked. How DARE anyone try to tell us where we should and shouldn't put our military alliance! How dare they!
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Why should a person who gets a name change be held responsible for the actions of or debts accrued by their former name?
What if they announce that they no longer identify as that former person?
What if they undergo a gender change and aren't even really the same person?
yeah, except a person does not = a nation. nations rise and fall, come and go. people are well, just people.
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Who said that it was their right to murder it's neighbors? I haven't seen anyone say that once. And you're acting as if there was zero provocation by the US which lead to these course of events, that they just up and decided to invade for shits and gigs. Just because. That is not the case. To be clear- there is no justification for this or any other illegal invasion. And no country has a right to invade another.
Any Russian leader would want/need Ukraine as a buffer zone- with Ukraine in NATO- they become literally indefensible from a NATO land invasion. They'd be beyond f**ked. They simply put would not be able to halt an invasion. US could've very easily cut a deal to revoke Ukraine's open-ended NATO membership offer- not like they were getting in anytime soon- you know- seeing as they are one of the 10 most corrupt countries in the entire world. US refused to even negotiate. This leads me to the logical conclusion that the US either wanted this outcome or simply just did not give a sh*t about Ukraine. The US has used Ukraine as a pawn like they do many other inferior states- and Ukraine was stupid enough to buy our bullshit- and despite Zelenskyys pleas the US is not establishing a no fly zone or sending boots on the ground.
Had to show the Russians how big our d**ks are though, right? Just have to prove how tough we are, while Ukraine gets wrecked. How DARE anyone try to tell us where we should and shouldn't put our military alliance! How dare they!
We get it... It's the US's fault that Putin invaded. :34:
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We get it... It's the US's fault that Putin invaded. :34:
No, it's entirely Putin's fault. The US could've tried to prevent it through diplomacy. They didn't even attempt to. They refused to negotiate. What does that tell you? It should tell you that they really don't give a f**k if Ukraine gets wrecked.
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Who said that it was their right to murder it's neighbors? I haven't seen anyone say that once. And you're acting as if there was zero provocation by the US which lead to these course of events, that they just up and decided to invade for shits and gigs. Just because. That is not the case. To be clear- there is no justification for this or any other illegal invasion. And no country has a right to invade another.
Any Russian leader would want/need Ukraine as a buffer zone- with Ukraine in NATO- they become literally indefensible from a NATO land invasion. They'd be beyond f**ked. They simply put would not be able to halt an invasion. US could've very easily cut a deal to revoke Ukraine's open-ended NATO membership offer- not like they were getting in anytime soon- you know- seeing as they are one of the 10 most corrupt countries in the entire world. US refused to even negotiate. This leads me to the logical conclusion that the US either wanted this outcome or simply just did not give a sh*t about Ukraine. The US has used Ukraine as a pawn like they do many other inferior states- and Ukraine was stupid enough to buy our bullshit- and despite Zelenskyys pleas the US is not establishing a no fly zone or sending boots on the ground.
Had to show the Russians how big our d**ks are though, right? Just have to prove how tough we are, while Ukraine gets wrecked. How DARE anyone try to tell us where we should and shouldn't put our military alliance! How dare they!
ok we get it
US bad and cant be trusted
Its all the fault of the US
US just used Ukraine and does not care
Putin is simply reacting like any Russian leader would for self defense
Did I leave anything out
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You know, I was pretty much raised in the Republican tradition. Hence, I grew up thinking that the government was bad at most things, but that on matters of law & order, and international relations / protecting the homeland, that was where the government excelled.
I became a libertarian, officially, when I realized they're shite at that too. I can't see how those invasions actually helped, you know, protecting the homeland.
All that is irrelevant to Putin and Ukraine, though. Putin wanted to control Ukraine, a sovereign nation, to stop them from doing things he didn't want them to do, that would insulate them from his control. So he invaded.
Well, yes. When you have a large military and thousands of nuclear warheads, you can be a little braver in getting what you want. They also have some quasi-support in a very strong China, as well as a relatively weakening western power. If the calculus was as simple as every time a country invades another country it's wrong, then, well, the last twenty years would have been a heck of a lot different. It's a little unclear exactly what the endgame is here, whether reuniting Ukraine with Russia, installing their own government, concessions on certain regions, etc. But I also think saying "Putin is crazy" or "Putin just likes invading everyone" is particularly accurate.
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ok we get it
US bad and cant be trusted
Its all the fault of the US
US just used Ukraine and does not care
Putin is simply reacting like any Russian leader would for self defense
Did I leave anything out
We have plenty of people right now claiming we are being invaded from people crossing the southern border to work at Piggly Wiggly. You think if China starting sending missiles and money to Mexico there wouldn't be a pretty danged big political movement to do something about it?
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ok we get it
US bad and cant be trusted
Its all the fault of the US
US just used Ukraine and does not care
Putin is simply reacting like any Russian leader would for self defense
Did I leave anything out
I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of children here.
A lot of different things can simultaneously be true. Context matters. History matters. Things do not happen in a vacuum.
The US is a declining global Imperial power that seeks to retain US hegemony over the world. Like all empires before it, it does not operate in terms of good and bad. Only in terms of self-interest and in maintaining hegemony. Despite what you may think- we are not the good guys and everyone else we say is a bad guy is the bad guy. This is a fantasy only for children to believe. Unfortunately damn near everyone in this country believes it.
The fault for the invasion is on Vladimir Putin alone. He decided to invade Ukraine- so that is on him. The US has been antagonizing the bully for years. Despite many warnings from many different people of all backgrounds and stripes. The bully went and snapped. The bully is always to blame for his own violent actions. That does not mean it was OK to antagonize him. It was not. Both things can be true.
And US clearly does not give a sh*t about Ukraine- they didn't even attempt to make a deal. They refused to negotiate. And are they sending boots on the ground? No. Are they establishing a no fly zone? No. Ukraine does not matter enough to them to risk a greater war with Russia. Because as Obama openly admitted in interviews in 2016- Ukraine doesn't really mean anything to the US- it is of zero strategic value to the US. Less than zero.
Putin has been responding negatively to NATO/Ukraine for the last 14 years, as any Russian leader would. I guess I misspoke if I said any leader would invade- because there is just no way to know for sure if any Russian leader would have actually pulled the trigger on an invasion. I honestly did not think he would- I thought he was too cunning and calculating for that- did not think he was this stupid- and I thought the US ultimately would cut a deal- but there was a refusal by the US to negotiate- no deal was cut and he invaded- and he and he alone bears the responsibility for that action.
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We have plenty of people right now claiming we are being invaded from people crossing the southern border to work at Piggly Wiggly. You think if China starting sending missiles and money to Mexico there wouldn't be a pretty danged big political movement to do something about it?
this is way off topic but just the same all we need to stop it is a Federal Government that wants it stopped
I dont think we would care about missiles if they were defensive in nature and no we would not allow ICBMs put in Mexico
now hard as you may try you just cant justify Russia invading an independent nation that poses no current threat to Russia but Im sure that wont slow you down so have at it
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We have plenty of people right now claiming we are being invaded from people crossing the southern border to work at Piggly Wiggly. You think if China starting sending missiles and money to Mexico there wouldn't be a pretty danged big political movement to do something about it?
That's an assinine thing to say you have no idea who came over and or what they could do.Ask a border agent just because you approve doesn't mean it's okay and who will have to keep paying for it moving forward - even if they all behave because they wouldn't possibly take another course of action.Why the fuck have they found tunnels under the border? Vampires?Zombies?couldn't be anything nefarious right counsel?
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I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of children here.
Yes we feel the same believe me
A lot of different things can simultaneously be true. Context matters. History matters. Things do not happen in a vacuum.
The US is a declining global Imperial power that seeks to retain US hegemony over the world. Like all empires before it, it does not operate in terms of good and bad. Only in terms of self-interest and in maintaining hegemony. Despite what you may think- we are not the good guys and everyone else we say is a bad guy is the bad guy. This is a fantasy only for children to believe. Unfortunately damn near everyone in this country believes it.
Purely your misguided opinion
The fault for the invasion is on Vladimir Putin alone. He decided to invade Ukraine- so that is on him. The US has been antagonizing the bully for years. Despite many warnings from many different people of all backgrounds and stripes. The bully went and snapped. The bully is always to blame for his own violent actions. That does not mean it was OK to antagonize him. It was not. Both things can be true.
First true statement
And US clearly does not give a sh*t about Ukraine- they didn't even attempt to make a deal. They refused to negotiate. And are they sending boots on the ground? No. Are they establishing a no fly zone? No. Ukraine does not matter enough to them to risk a greater war with Russia. Because as Obama openly admitted in interviews in 2016- Ukraine doesn't really mean anything to the US- it is of zero strategic value to the US. Less than zero.
Nope we are trying to not start a nuclear war if thats ok with you
Putin has been responding negatively to NATO/Ukraine for the last 14 years, as any Russian leader would. I guess I misspoke if I said any leader would invade- because there is just no way to know for sure if any Russian leader would have actually pulled the trigger on an invasion. I honestly did not think he would- I thought he was too cunning and calculating for that- did not think he was this stupid- and I thought the US ultimately would cut a deal- but there was a refusal by the US to negotiate- no deal was cut and he invaded- and he and he alone bears the responsibility for that action.
The fact is he did and needs to be taken out
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this is way off topic but just the same all we need to stop it is a Federal Government that wants it stopped
I dont think we would care about missiles if they were defensive in nature and no we would not allow ICBMs put in Mexico
now hard as you may try you just cant justify Russia invading an independent nation that poses no current threat to Russia but Im sure that wont slow you down so have at it
we would never allow any military alliance on our borders, nor would we allow any missile systems, even ABMs to be put on our borders. it is a complete fantasy to think otherwise for even one second.
Ukraine in NATO = threat to Russian border security. That is how they see it, and that what they've said about it for 14 years. And that is how any Russian leader would see it. Ukraine as a part of NATO makes Russia completely indefensible from a NATO land invasion. Baltics really don't matter that much to them because if they had to they could encircle and cut the Baltic states off on land. Ukraine in NATO? They'd be toast. They'd have no way to counter an invasion and no way to slow it down.
Call NATO whatever you want, but it's a military alliance, controlled by the United States. And they don't trust the US standard operating "just trust us" line of bullshit. They've been duped one too many times by that.
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I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of children here.
Do you get in online arguments to have some one to talk to? You proclaim not discuss then act all offended when others can't see the dazzling brilliance of your bloviating. The Ukraine wasn't going to be brought into NATO Nostradomus
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we would never allow any military alliance on our borders, nor would we allow any missile systems, even ABMs to be put on our borders. it is a complete fantasy to think otherwise for even one second.
Your opinion and I dont agree
Ukraine in NATO = threat to Russian border security. That is how they see it, and that what they've said about it for 14 years. And that is how any Russian leader would see it. Ukraine as a part of NATO makes Russia completely indefensible from a NATO land invasion. Baltics really don't matter that much to them because if they had to they could encircle and cut the Baltic states off on land. Ukraine in NATO? They'd be toast. They'd have no way to counter an invasion and no way to slow it down.
Ukraine is not in NATO so your whole argument is mute
Call NATO whatever you want, but it's a military alliance, controlled by the United States. And they don't trust the US standard operating "just trust us" line of bullshit. They've been duped one too many times by that.
Again Ukraine is not a member of NATO
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https://twitter.com/mhmck/status/1499161621943525384?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499161621943525384%7Ctwgr%5Ehb_0_8%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmhmck%2Fstatus%2F1499161621943525384
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I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of children here.
A lot of different things can simultaneously be true. Context matters. History matters. Things do not happen in a vacuum.
The US is a declining global Imperial power that seeks to retain US hegemony over the world. Like all empires before it, it does not operate in terms of good and bad. Only in terms of self-interest and in maintaining hegemony. Despite what you may think- we are not the good guys and everyone else we say is a bad guy is the bad guy. This is a fantasy only for children to believe. Unfortunately damn near everyone in this country believes it.
The fault for the invasion is on Vladimir Putin alone. He decided to invade Ukraine- so that is on him. The US has been antagonizing the bully for years. Despite many warnings from many different people of all backgrounds and stripes. The bully went and snapped. The bully is always to blame for his own violent actions. That does not mean it was OK to antagonize him. It was not. Both things can be true.
And US clearly does not give a sh*t about Ukraine- they didn't even attempt to make a deal. They refused to negotiate. And are they sending boots on the ground? No. Are they establishing a no fly zone? No. Ukraine does not matter enough to them to risk a greater war with Russia. Because as Obama openly admitted in interviews in 2016- Ukraine doesn't really mean anything to the US- it is of zero strategic value to the US. Less than zero.
Putin has been responding negatively to NATO/Ukraine for the last 14 years, as any Russian leader would. I guess I misspoke if I said any leader would invade- because there is just no way to know for sure if any Russian leader would have actually pulled the trigger on an invasion. I honestly did not think he would- I thought he was too cunning and calculating for that- did not think he was this stupid- and I thought the US ultimately would cut a deal- but there was a refusal by the US to negotiate- no deal was cut and he invaded- and he and he alone bears the responsibility for that action.
So it sounds like a game of chicken. And Putin swerved first. He was hoping to get concessions by threatening invasion. Nobody bit. So he had to invade.
Still doesn't mean that the US caused the invasion. It's still all on Putin.
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https://twitter.com/LPOhio/status/1499152575060496395?t=QrUwOdaaK-jmVtV3ActuSQ&s=19
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Lulz. That the author of that meme, and you, don't realize it's not actually saying what you think it's saying, is really telling.
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https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1499184563922165762?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499185800172474371%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKarlMuth%2Fstatus%2F1499185800172474371%3Ft%3DQV1mh1dYwG-uJ5eEgD4hzA26s%3D19
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Should have invaded with Jeeps, lol.
Easy fix to this whole thing.....let Putin draw a line of territory he wants to have, then without telling him, let Ukraine leadership choose which piece they want!
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You wouldn't need ICBMs in Mexico to target the US. That "C" in ICBM renders it MOOT, not Mute.
You could employ IRBMs.
Anyway, as one of the "children" around here, I fear this will not end well (duh) and Putin will eventually "win" unless he is pulled from office somehow. As I noted a while back, I think he loses a lot even if he "wins" militarily, and doesn't gain much of anything.
Ukraine is a poor country in GDP per capita, they do have natural resources, but so does Russia. Ukrainians won't be happy with whoever gets put "in charge".
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Watch it buster go to your room and no baseball camp for you - 1 year
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Lulz. That the author of that meme, and you, don't realize it's not actually saying what you think it's saying, is really telling.
What that they're WHO fans?
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Maybe the UN does something useful at times, I'm not sure I know what it is.
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Attack On Europe: Documenting Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - Oryx (oryxspioenkop.com) (https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?fbclid=IwAR1cUK1XSn6U4jyPgfx3xibgh77cj9Ql6gM4kc0DKGYn7I5z9oOfXH_G9-I)
A lot of gear being destroyed on both sides, obviously, and these tallies are those for which photo evidence exists somewhere.
At the end of the day, what does Putin really gain here?
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Maybe the UN does something useful at times, I'm not sure I know what it is.
a government of governments
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No, Trump would not have stopped Russia's invasion of Ukraine | TheHill (https://thehill.com/opinion/international/596662-no-trump-would-not-have-stopped-russias-invasion-of-ukraine)
Everyone has opinions of course.
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we can ponder, but we'll never know for sure
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So much for keeping it apolitical, CD. ;)
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No, Trump would not have stopped Russia's invasion of Ukraine | TheHill (https://thehill.com/opinion/international/596662-no-trump-would-not-have-stopped-russias-invasion-of-ukraine)
Everyone has opinions of course.
Everyone has assholes too.
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we can ponder, but we'll never know for sure
It's completely irrelevant to the current situation so I'm not going to bother spending even one bazillionth of my brain power of it.
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So much for keeping it apolitical, CD. ;)
That train has done run faster than Herschel outrunning those South Carolina DBs.
Is there any way Putin comes out of this stronger? I think he made a huge miscalculation.
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That train has done run faster than Herschel outrunning those South Carolina DBs.
Is there any way Putin comes out of this stronger? I think he made a huge miscalculation.
he aint out of it yet
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(https://i.imgur.com/nAaNL69.png)
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Nope, but I can't conceive of any future where this is to his benefit even if Ukraine magically caves today.
- significant military losses
- significant damage to the country he would now somewhat control
- sullen perhaps rebellious subject population
- enmity from the West
- more military spending by Germany
- Finland and Sweden considering NATO
- very bad imagery for his own military capabilities
- taking over a poor country needing rebuilding at considerable cost to someone
- sanctions
- very bad internal economy
On the plus side ....???
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It's completely irrelevant to the current situation so I'm not going to bother spending even one bazillionth of my brain power of it.
C'mon the commoners eagerly await
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C'mon the commoners eagerly await
Children, we're children, and I suppose commoners as well.
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Could be highborn children. We weren't called peasants after all.
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https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1499395103957434369?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499395103957434369%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKevinRothrock%2Fstatus%2F1499395103957434369%3Fs%3D2026t%3DDS8ycLN_TTrS0kq6QIsliw
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https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1499395103957434369?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499395103957434369%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKevinRothrock%2Fstatus%2F1499395103957434369%3Fs%3D2026t%3DDS8ycLN_TTrS0kq6QIsliw
Absolute insanity. Might be using it as a tool/ploy to squash dissent. Don’t see how that could possibly do anything but backfire if they actually tried to do it.
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Absolute insanity. Might be using it as a tool/ploy to squash dissent. Don’t see how that could possibly do anything but backfire if they actually tried to do it.
Unsubstantiated rumors coming from Russia right now, so I won't bother posting links, but the word on the street is that Russia plans to institute martial law as soon as tomorrow. It is known that they have a meeting tomorrow to discuss "crisis management" which could just be their economic plans to weather the storm of sanctions, but some people inside the country have suggested that martial law will also be considered, and implemented, as a result of that meeting.
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Nope, but I can't conceive of any future where this is to his benefit even if Ukraine magically caves today.
- significant military losses
- significant damage to the country he would now somewhat control
- sullen perhaps rebellious subject population
- enmity from the West
- more military spending by Germany
- Finland and Sweden considering NATO
- very bad imagery for his own military capabilities
- taking over a poor country needing rebuilding at considerable cost to someone
- sanctions
- very bad internal economy
On the plus side ....???
Yeah, I think he miscalculated badly and pretty much f***ked himself.
Even if Ukraine doesn’t join NATO, Finland and Sweden might now and every country already within NATO is planning to beef up spending. Not to mention US LNG is going to take a dent out of Russian natural gas sales in Germany.
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After a whole day of this thread infighting and finger pointing over geopolitics still wasn’t long enough for the Russian’s to get their stalled convoy sadly back on track for Kyiv. It’s really turning into the Kremlin’s own Fyre Fest.
Anyway, Wikipedia has a page for Pets of Vladimir Putin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pets_of_Vladimir_Putin#Pasha
Putin apparently has another 10 unlisted hounds in his basement: “In total silence, Putin led the Americans through some corridors and down various sets of stairs into the literal basement of the Kremlin, a place where bad things had happened over the years, as John, a student of Russian history, knew well. There, the grimacing Putin showed them roughly 10 of the fiercest-looking canines that John had ever seen. There were restrained in large cages. Putin then looked at the Americans and said simply and sternly, “This is what a real dog looks like. Tell your president.””
https://twitter.com/amspectator/status/1498889180394528771
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I think Russia is at the point of martial law, though in reality that is kind of the norm for them anyway.
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I think Russia is at the point of martial law, though in reality that is kind of the norm for them anyway.
Yes, the distance traveled for Russia to get from normal, to martial law, is certainly a lot shorter than here in the US, that's for sure.
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Could be highborn highbrow children. We weren't called peasants after all.
Peasant FIFY
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The Russian leadership the last 20 years is worse than it was back in the USSR. More corrupt, no internal accountability, less risk adverse.
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(https://i.imgur.com/mCZftCx.png)
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I had thought Putin was a savvy leader in the past, someone who understood geopolitics pretty well and practiced it pretty well compared to most leaders, and maybe that was true, in the past. (That doesn't mean he's not lawless and dangerous, just that he's effective, or was.)
Some of the USSR Premiers were pretty bad, old, ancient really.
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Putin is a lying mass murdering SOB even before this war in Ukraine. He came to power in 1999 by setting off 4 bombs off in 3 Russian cities and blaming Chechen separatists. Next, he launched a second war on the Russian Province of Chechnya where he leveled its capitol of Grozny killing thousands of Russians. Putin invaded Georgia in 2007/8. Poisoned the elected president of Ukraine, invaded Ukraine in 2014 and annexed Crimea. Started separatist movements in Moldova and Ukraine. Shot down a civilian airliner over Ukraine. Nerve toxin and polonium poisonings in the UK of Russian defectors. Assassinations in Europe. Mass murder of civilians in Syria, like tens of thousands. The list goes on and on from 1999 to present day. It's totally amazing the West hasn't jumped his shit before now.
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I had thought Putin was a savvy leader in the past, someone who understood geopolitics pretty well and practiced it pretty well compared to most leaders, and maybe that was true, in the past. (That doesn't mean he's not lawless and dangerous, just that he's effective, or was.)
Some of the USSR Premiers were pretty bad, old, ancient really.
.After Stalin - Khruschev lightened things up at home though antagonstic to the west.After Brezhnev/Andropov things lightened up again.Then unfortunately Vlad got his hooks in.Hopefully we could some day clean house in Washington and Wall St
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He's certainly not a nice fellow, but I was commenting on his savviness.
Hitler was pretty savvy for quite some time.
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Hopefully we could some day clean house in Washington and Wall St
I don't hope for the impossible. I gave up on the Dawgs ever winning another NC in my lifetime, it seemed futile.
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https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1499403579953610752?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499410431726731271%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAFP%2Fstatus%2F1499410431726731271%3Fs%3D2026t%3DhYhVK8fdS7uxSf5mPwkVnw
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Absolute insanity. Might be using it as a tool/ploy to squash dissent. Don’t see how that could possibly do anything but backfire if they actually tried to do it.
same guy giving a little context, but the fact it's even being discussed, even as an idle threat (i'm not 100% sure it is) is abhorrent.
https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1499397187809198080
also from same thread was this. putin showing signs of major illness? not a confirmed video, btw, so take with grain of salt.
https://twitter.com/elin_sal/status/1499412118029979651
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https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1499419793753092096?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499419793753092096%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FNPR%2Fstatus%2F1499419793753092096%3Fs%3D2026t%3DhYhVK8fdS7uxSf5mPwkVnw
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It would be a bad idea to send conscripts into actual battles if they are obviously against the war in the first place.
It would have a negative outcome for nearly all.
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Putin is a lying mass murdering SOB even before this war in Ukraine. He came to power in 1999 by setting off 4 bombs off in 3 Russian cities and blaming Chechen separatists.
I don't know if this is true or not certainly plausible.From what I've learned about the Chechens the opposite could be true also.Sad commentary all around
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I don't hope for the impossible. I gave up on the Dawgs ever winning another NC in my lifetime, it seemed futile.
So you're saying there's a chance?
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One of the most quoted movie lines ever, oddly enough, but I really don't give a darn, game over man, game over, I'll be back.
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https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/1499403805552779271?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499403805552779271%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fbpolitics%2Fstatus%2F1499403805552779271
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This is odd, because Ukraine hasn't deployed any navy ships, and I think they only have a handful of navy ships anyway.
Seems like Russia is deliberately targeting commercial ships, and this one flies the flag of a NATO country. Almost like they WANT the West to get involved.
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This is odd, because Ukraine hasn't deployed any navy ships, and I think they only have a handful of navy ships anyway.
Seems like Russia is deliberately targeting commercial ships, and this one flies the flag of a NATO country. Almost like they WANT the West to get involved.
If it's true that Putin is very ill.. why would he care if the World was blown to pieces? That would be his legacy, and probably one he would love to leave.
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Ukraine: Estonian cargo ship sinks after blast in Black Sea - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60606515)
The vessel had been anchored off the coast after leaving port several days ago.
Ukrainian media say the Russian navy had been using the Helt as a shield to hide from Ukrainian weaponry as Russian forces advance towards Odesa.
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The world could be on the brink of an energy crisis rivaling the 1970s, says IHS Markit's Yergin (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/03/the-world-could-be-on-the-brink-of-an-energy-crisis-rivaling-the-1970s-says-ihs-markets-yergin.html)
The various financial restraints attached to Russia are impacting their ability to get paid for their oil.
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The world could be on the brink of an energy crisis rivaling the 1970s, says IHS Markit's Yergin (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/03/the-world-could-be-on-the-brink-of-an-energy-crisis-rivaling-the-1970s-says-ihs-markets-yergin.html)
The various financial restraints attached to Russia are impacting their ability to get paid for their oil.
Yes. I've seen some US-based analysts saying that we really don't need to cut out imports from Russia, because our refiners and producers can't pay them anyway. They expcted Russia to only be able to sell 2/3 of its normal shipments, and that's even after pivoting to the Chinese and others who could take up the slack.
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The Russian leadership the last 20 years is worse than it was back in the USSR. More corrupt, no internal accountability, less risk adverse.
Gonna have to disagree with you there.
And Putin might never have come to power or maintained his grip on power if his predecessor Yeltsin wasn’t such a corrupt, drunk, weak, ineffective leader that was a stooge for the Clinton administration. Russia in the 90s was an absolute chaotic disaster on the brink- a failed state.
Russia stabilized and rebounded from the brink under Putin, which is probably why he’s been able to hold onto his power. Well that and he’s not afraid of murdering those who cross him. That surely helps.
But seems to me these type of dictator/strong men can only take hold in chaotic times if they help bring a country to stability. The people who remember the 90s- don’t want to go back.
Hitler probably never rises in Germany if the Weimar Republic wasn’t a disaster after WWI and the worldwide depression of 1929.
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The world could be on the brink of an energy crisis rivaling the 1970s, says IHS Markit's Yergin (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/03/the-world-could-be-on-the-brink-of-an-energy-crisis-rivaling-the-1970s-says-ihs-markets-yergin.html)
The various financial restraints attached to Russia are impacting their ability to get paid for their oil.
Gee if only there was a US client state that controlled the worlds largest oil cartel- that happened to have more oil than anyone themselves- that by the way can produce said oil at worlds lowest cost. If only….
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If it's true that Putin is very ill.. why would he care if the World was blown to pieces? That would be his legacy, and probably one he would love to leave.
This is literally something along the same lines that was on Russian state tv program - one of the broadcasters said something like if Russia is not a part of the world then what is the point of having a world….basically saying if you guys are gonna crush us and make us destitute like we were in the 90s…then no reason for us not to use nukes. Scary shit.
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I had a dream last night that NYC, Chicago and LA were all flattened at the same time. Woke me up at 3AM and could not get back to sleep.
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China says it’s ready to play a role in a ceasefire. They have a lot of leverage over Russia right now. Would be nice if they applied some pressure to end this war asap.
https://youtu.be/VpUf5HaCOPw
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China says it’s ready to play a role in a ceasefire. They have a lot of leverage over Russia right now. Would be nice if they applied some pressure to end this war asap.
https://youtu.be/VpUf5HaCOPw
considering China is among the few friends Russia has right now this might be important
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A cease fire means what, exactly? I suppose it grants Russia whatever ground it has gained thus far, at least short term?
It would stop most of the carnage anyway, Putin could declare victory. Ukraine would be shattered and probably dismembered again. But I don't think Ukraine has any real hope of driving Russian forces out.
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I had a dream last night that NYC, Chicago and LA were all flattened at the same time. Woke me up at 3AM and could not get back to sleep.
The way this is unfolding does make me nervous.
Russia citizens, oligarchs and economy getting crushed. Unstable leader, back to the wall, so many bad possibilities. China and North Korea playing bad boys.
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A cease fire means what, exactly? I suppose it grants Russia whatever ground it has gained thus far, at least short term?
It would stop most of the carnage anyway, Putin could declare victory. Ukraine would be shattered and probably dismembered again. But I don't think Ukraine has any real hope of driving Russian forces out.
IMHO a cease fire right now is very good for Ukraine and mildly bad for Russia
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I'd take a cease fire right now, but I suspect "they" will talk and talk and talk, while Russia gains more ground. Then Putin will accede.
I don't see a good out here for anyone. Maybe Russia finally gives up some ground but keeps a tidy portion. Ukraine is a fraction of itself.
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No I think Russian might have to refit/resupply
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The way this is unfolding does make me nervous.
Russia citizens, oligarchs and economy getting crushed. Unstable leader, back to the wall, so many bad possibilities. China and North Korea playing bad boys.
Actually its in China's best interest to avoid a nuclear exchange so Im really not too worried bout that
The key to a perm cease fire is to allow Putin to save face and at the same time keep an independent Ukraine
Maybe China can accomplish that
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China seems to be reversing course here a little bit. They hold massive leverage over Russia right now.
China has to be seeing Russia effectively get canceled by the world, the oligarchs under fire, and the crippling sanctions and thinking you know what, Taiwan ain’t worth it.
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I never pin any positive hopes on China. China ass-hoe.
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I never pin any positive hopes on China. China ass-hoe.
while I share your view there is no reason something cant be good for China and also improves the Ukraine situation
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Actually its in China's best interest to avoid a nuclear exchange so Im really not too worried bout that
Just China's,SMDH
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FqeA0jZAlsCHAI%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V_hCqO6UQs
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(https://i.imgur.com/7pROW2d.jpg)
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Bottom group is from Austin Bwarb told me that as he was house hunting and recognized them
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If there is a cease fire "soon" (within two weeks say), how much of Ukraine might be left when it's all over?
will Ukraine go for that?
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(https://i.imgur.com/7pROW2d.jpg)
I'll take the Ukies in that one.
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I had a dream last night that NYC, Chicago and LA were all flattened at the same time. Woke me up at 3AM and could not get back to sleep.
the scary thing is- this is the closest we have been to that actually being a possibility since the Cuban Missile Crisis.
I thought the Cold War ended in 1991.
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If there is a cease fire "soon" (within two weeks say), how much of Ukraine might be left when it's all over?
will Ukraine go for that?
If they agree to concessions on territory they know they'll never get it back. That makes it pretty tough to come to terms.
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https://twitter.com/ungubunugu1274/status/1499457253786718211?t=K64b-4o1lC_VnUaxv3GCOg&s=19
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the scary thing is- this is the closest we have been to that actually being a possibility since the Cuban Missile Crisis.
I thought the Cold War ended in 1991.
I was in the 6th grade during the Cuban MC and the biggest difference between then and now is that the general public really was not that concerned in 1961
In school there were no drills for duck and cover
If we had the technology of today we might have been
course with todays tech I dont think the Russians would have even tried something like that
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ceasefires have been attempted with Minsk I & II. Both sides violated. According to the UN, from 2018-2021, 81.4% of civilian casualties in the conflict in Donbas came in rebel-held territory. 16.3% were in Ukrainian gov't controlled territory. 2.3% in "no mans land" that neither side controlled. link (https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related civilian casualties as of 31 December 2021 (rev 27 January 2022) corr EN_0.pdf)
(https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related civilian casualties as of 31 December 2021 (rev 27 January 2022) corr EN_0.pdf)
Anything they can do to try to stop the current death and destruction, I'm all for.
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Those Russians love them some Ikea.
Of course, this doesn't really look any different than our local Ikea on the last Saturday before college back-to-school, so...
https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1499394611847909379?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499394611847909379%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Folex_scherba%2Fstatus%2F1499394611847909379%3Fs%3D21
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I read the President Finland is an IKEA employee. He's still assembling his cabinet.
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https://twitter.com/ungubunugu1274/status/1499457253786718211?t=K64b-4o1lC_VnUaxv3GCOg&s=19
Just….wow.
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Those Russians love them some Ikea.
Of course, this doesn't really look any different than our local Ikea on the last Saturday before college back-to-school, so...
https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1499394611847909379?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499394611847909379%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Folex_scherba%2Fstatus%2F1499394611847909379%3Fs%3D21
looks just like the Ikea in Doral on a daily basis. And almost no one speaks english there either.
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https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499473888165744647?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499473888165744647%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnexta_tv%2Fstatus%2F1499473888165744647%3Ft%3Dfj9SEoFB-RgByca0fKC8jA26s%3D19
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Belarus must also be held accountable now.
Do they have anything worth sanctioning?
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a) Belarus must also be held accountable now.
b) Do they have anything worth sanctioning?
a) they are being held accountable vis-a-vis Russia. Crippling Russian economy cripples them.
b) not really. lol.
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yeah, so as bad of a rap as we get here in the US, and we have our problems for sure.....racism in Europe is way worse than it is in the US, anybody who has spent a significant amount of time over in Europe already knows this. There have been many reports that bordering states like Poland, Hungary, and Bulgaria have tried to restrict minority refugees fleeing from inside Ukraine or have been giving Ukrainians (ie...white people) preference and letting them in first. There were roughly 16,000 African students studying in Ukraine at the start of the war, and many tens of thousands more living there permanently- and many have been restricted by bordering states from even entering their countries.
Some of these remarks by European leaders are flat out disgusting.
"These are not the refugees we are used to... these people are Europeans," Bulgarian Prime Minister Kiril Petkov told journalists earlier this week, of the Ukrainians. "These people are intelligent, they are educated people. ... This is not the refugee wave we have been used to, people we were not sure about their identity, people with unclear pasts, who could have been even terrorists..."
Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki also said: “We will accept anyone who needs it. The Ukrainian society gets more afraid and stressed. We are ready to accept tens, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian refugees.” This is while his country continues to deny entry to mostly Iraqi, Afghan and Syrian migrants and asylum seekers on its border with Belarus. The irony of European nations taking in refugees created by Russia’s aggression while shutting out those generated by their own invasions and occupations is apparently also lost on them.
Ton of reports on it, linked some below for anyone who wants to read...
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/how-we-rise/2022/03/03/the-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-shows-racism-has-no-boundaries/
https://time.com/6153276/ukraine-refugees-racism/
https://www.npr.org/2022/02/28/1083423348/europe-welcomes-ukrainian-refugees-but-others-less-so
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/03/europe/racism-border-ukraine-un/index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/mar/02/people-of-colour-fleeing-ukraine-attacked-by-polish-nationalists
should come as no surprise though, seeing as how they treated and still treat Syrian refugees, and the really crazy/ironic part about that one is that it was US/NATO bombing the living shit out of that country created many of those refugees fleeing war in the first place.
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chief exports of Belarus are Fertilizer and cheese
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chief exports of Belarus are Fertilizer and cheese
wouldn’t have guessed either lmao.
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I've seen lots of the actual war footage and shelling footage and have no desire to turn this into some kind of war-porn thread.
But this is one of the more revealing "aftermath" videos I've seen. We've all been talking about how it's going to start getting worse for Ukraine, and this is the beginning of it.
Note-- no bodies in this video. Just major destruction of property.
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1499488533622448134?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499488533622448134%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FReuters%2Fstatus%2F1499488533622448134%3Fs%3D2026t%3DTCqJDcejMgHIWv9u-PCsGg
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I've seen lots of the actual war footage and shelling footage and have no desire to turn this into some kind of war-porn thread.
But this is one of the more revealing "aftermath" videos I've seen. We've all been talking about how it's going to start getting worse for Ukraine, and this is the beginning of it.
Note-- no bodies in this video. Just major destruction of property.
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1499488533622448134?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499488533622448134%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FReuters%2Fstatus%2F1499488533622448134%3Fs%3D2026t%3DTCqJDcejMgHIWv9u-PCsGg
jesus christ that is god awful.
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And Ukraine is a poor country, all this damage makes it poorer. The Russians won't have money to rebuild it.
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And Ukraine is a poor country, all this damage makes it poorer. The Russians won't have money to rebuild it.
yeah, it's the poorest country in Europe. And the most corrupt too. So any money that gets funneled into Ukraine to rebuild it- you can bet your ass gov't officials are going to steal some of it.
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As always the average law-abiding citizen gets completely shafted.
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Then the lesson is to be other than average and break the law often?
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I've seen lots of the actual war footage and shelling footage and have no desire to turn this into some kind of war-porn thread.
But this is one of the more revealing "aftermath" videos I've seen. We've all been talking about how it's going to start getting worse for Ukraine, and this is the beginning of it.
Note-- no bodies in this video. Just major destruction of property.
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1499488533622448134?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499488533622448134%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FReuters%2Fstatus%2F1499488533622448134%3Fs%3D2026t%3DTCqJDcejMgHIWv9u-PCsGg
I am glad you posted it. It incredibly sad and simultaneously makes me sad and angry.
But it’s a good exercise to remind us of what is at the core of our discussion here. By no means am I saying we need it, but sometimes when we throw words around a page we can lose sight of what’s really happening.
It also makes you feel helpless. Wishing for a way to help. Rrrgggghh. War sucks.
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Then the lesson is to be other than average and break the law often?
I think the lesson should be only break the law often if you're super rich with great connections or super high up in the gov't. you'll usually get away scot-free, and even if you get caught you'll just get a slap on the wrist.
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https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/william-tecumseh-sherman-quotes
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I am glad you posted it. It incredibly sad and simultaneously makes me sad and angry.
But it’s a good exercise to remind us of what is at the core of our discussion here. By no means am I saying we need it, but sometimes when we throw words around a page we can lose sight of what’s really happening.
It also makes you feel helpless. Wishing for a way to help. Rrrgggghh. War sucks.
This perfectly sums up where I’m at. I’m someone between sad, angry and feeling helpless. A very close friend of mine is a former special forces sniper that married into a Ukrainian family and was about to jump on a plane last week and luckily we talked him out of it.
There’s no winner here besides the corrupt. Looking at these cities torn apart makes me think about it happening here and how that would change life forever.
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I wonder if we might hear of a couple Russian oligarchs dying in the next week or so.
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(https://i.imgur.com/2RCWtHt.png)
This was his best I've always thought because it cuts thru the bullshit and is right - if all diplomatic channels have been exhausted
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There’s no winner here besides the corrupt.
I have long, complicated thoughts about all this, and I doubt I or any of us know enough ins and outs to have the "right" opinion....but this comment sums up my overall take nicely.
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But, my dear sirs, when peace does come, you may call on me for any thing. Then will I share with you the last cracker, and watch with you to shield your homes and families against danger from every quarter.
William Tecumseh Sherman (https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/william-tecumseh-sherman-quotes)
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But, my dear sirs, when peace does come, you may call on me for any thing. Then will I share with you the last cracker, and watch with you to shield your homes and families against danger from every quarter.
William Tecumseh Sherman (https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/william-tecumseh-sherman-quotes)
According to Shelby Foote in the Ken Burns/PBS special,they said Sherman was retired under the suspician of insanity when he predicted how many would die in the War.Then they brought him back when they realized he wasn't so crazy after all
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There’s no winner here besides the corrupt.
Yup,look who is making out the last 2 years,Big Pharma,gas/oil can't forget these gents,Defense Contractors - all looking for excuses to gouge
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A Man Apart: The Political Education of General William Sherman at the Battle of Shiloh (thestrategybridge.org) (https://thestrategybridge.org/the-bridge/2018/4/7/a-man-apart-the-political-education-of-general-william-sherman-at-the-battle-of-shiloh)
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Yup,look who is making out the last 2 years,Big Pharma,gas/oil can't forget these gents,Defense Contractors - all looking for excuses to gouge
We had a lengthy conversation in my office today about this very point.
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High tech has done extremely well, too.
When all of you suckaz abandoned your offices to work from home and needed a lot of new IT systems and peripherals, and you companies needed new networking and storage infrastructure to handle the increased remote traffic, and now when your corporate headquarters are gearing up for return to office and spending tons more on new cubicle and conference room systems and peripherals, and updates and upgrades and reconfigurations on all the network infrastructure... all I can say is... thank you all for making my bonus YUGE.
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chief exports of Belarus are Fertilizer and cheese
Their 3rd-largest export is irrelevance.
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Their 3rd-largest export is irrelevance.
:043:
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Yup,look who is making out the last 2 years,Big Pharma,gas/oil can't forget these gents,Defense Contractors - all looking for excuses to gouge
yup. war is a racket.
https://www.amazon.com/War-Racket-Antiwar-Americas-Decorated/dp/0922915865
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KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russian forces pressed their attack on a crucial energy-producing Ukrainian city by shelling Europe’s largest nuclear plant early Friday, sparking a fire and raising fears that radiation could leak from the damaged power station.
The assault on the eastern city of Enerhodar and its Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant came as the invasion entered its second week with Russian forces gaining ground in their bid to cut off the country from the sea. Elsewhere, another round of talks between the two sides yielded a tentative agreement to set up safe corridors inside Ukraine to evacuate citizens and deliver humanitarian aid.
Nuclear plant spokesman Andriy Tuz told Ukrainian television that shells were falling directly on the facility and had set fire to one of its six reactors. That reactor is under renovation and not operating, but there is nuclear fuel inside, he said.
Firefighters cannot get near the flames because they are being shot at, he said, and Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba tweeted a plea to the Russians to stop the assault and allow fire teams inside.
“We demand that they stop the heavy weapons fire,” Tuz said in a video statement. “There is a real threat of nuclear danger in the biggest atomic energy station in Europe.”
The attack renewed fears that the invasion could result in damage to one of Ukraine’s 15 nuclear reactors and trigger another emergency like the 1986 Chernobyl accident, the world’s worst nuclear disaster, which happened about 110 kilometers (65 miles) north of the capital.
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Media reporting that the Russians are saying one of their top generals was killed by a Ukraine sniper
Im not really ready to believe this general died from a sniper
Might be a cover up of dissension in their ranks
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Zelensky reportedly survives 3 assassination attempts. Also says he wants to meet Putin face to face, and asks what are you afraid of, I don't bite. LOL.
He's definitely got some big brass balls. He's a pretty wealthy guy, could take his money and run and flee Ukraine and save his own skin, but he's there fighting for his country. Very admirable. Hopefully he can get that meeting with Putin and end this war.
Close to 1 million Ukrainians have fled to neighboring countries according to a UN report. Experts predict we could see as many as 4 million.
https://nypost.com/2022/03/03/ukraine-president-zelensky-survived-three-assassination-attempts/
https://www.newsweek.com/zelensky-calls-putin-face-face-talks-says-i-dont-bite-1684656
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/03/europe/ukraine-russia-invasion-thursday-intl-hnk/index.html
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Zelensky reportedly survives 3 assassination attempts. Also says he wants to meet Putin face to face, and asks what are you afraid of, I don't bite. LOL.
He's definitely got some big brass balls. He's a pretty wealthy guy, could take his money and run and flee Ukraine and save his own skin, but he's there fighting for his country. Very admirable. Hopefully he can get that meeting with Putin and end this war.
Close to 1 million Ukrainians have fled to neighboring countries according to a UN report. Experts predict we could see as many as 4 million.
https://nypost.com/2022/03/03/ukraine-president-zelensky-survived-three-assassination-attempts/
https://www.newsweek.com/zelensky-calls-putin-face-face-talks-says-i-dont-bite-1684656
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/03/europe/ukraine-russia-invasion-thursday-intl-hnk/index.html
There are a whole lot of Russians fleeing Russia too. The martial law thing and all that.
Russian citizens reportedly flee country over fears of Putin's martial law announcement | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/world/russian-citizens-reportedly-flee-country-over-fears-of-putins-martial-law-announcement)
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Russia may be creating such a humanitarian disaster and crisis that Ukraine has to yield and seek a cease fire under less than ideal terms. Surrounded cities will starve, Leningrad 1942-43.
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‘They’re scared’: Wealthy Russians look to sell U.S. real estate everywhere from Fisher Island to Billionaires’ Row (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/they-re-scared-wealthy-russians-look-to-sell-u-s-real-estate-everywhere-from-fisher-island-to-billionaires-row/ar-AAUBc1h?ocid=msedgntp)
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Hopefully some of those oligarchs can get to Putin. One way or another.
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https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/1499628936136953858?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499628936136953858%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FEuromaidanPR%2Fstatus%2F1499628936136953858
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If it's true that Putin is very ill.. why would he care if the World was blown to pieces? That would be his legacy, and probably one he would love to leave.
The is what has me most worried.
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Hopefully some of those oligarchs can get to Putin. One way or another.
Or vice versa. I assume Putin knows where the possible threats to his control are, and has plans if they materialize. I would wonder about my security were I a Russian billionaire right now.
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Or vice versa. I assume Putin knows where the possible threats to his control are, and has plans if they materialize. I would wonder about my security were I a Russian billionaire right now.
I'd be surprised if those in his inner circle don't understand this, intimately. I don't think this is any more or less true than it has been for years, aside from Putin being slightly more crazy than he used to be.
Those guys know exactly how Putin came into power, how many murders and genocides occurred along the way. Many of them helped him get there.
They know.
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They know, certainly, but a few could be plotting a cabal even so, and Putin might off them if they do and he learns of it. Might = would.
They could be confident in their security, or not. I can't get into their minds at this point, they are seeing considerable loss i quality of life. How would they react? Are they insulated from everything? Maybe.
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Some have probably always wanted power for themselves anyway. I'd imagine some of them have had long-term action plans to off Putin. Many of these guys are just as bad as he is. There's no guarantee his replacement will be any better.
We can only hope his replacement values his own life and wealth enough NOT to endanger it with nuclear war.
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‘They’re scared’: Wealthy Russians look to sell U.S. real estate everywhere from Fisher Island to Billionaires’ Row (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/they-re-scared-wealthy-russians-look-to-sell-u-s-real-estate-everywhere-from-fisher-island-to-billionaires-row/ar-AAUBc1h?ocid=msedgntp)
Yeah so this would typically be pretty bad for US luxury real estate market which is typically $2 million and up.
But since Covid strange thing has happened, it’s been mostly domestic buyers driving those kind of sales and making record breaking sales prices.
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Some have probably always wanted power for themselves anyway. I'd imagine some of them have had long-term action plans to off Putin. Many of these guys are just as bad as he is. There's no guarantee his replacement will be any better.
We can only hope his replacement values his own life and wealth enough NOT to endanger it with nuclear war.
That’s definitely a legit fear/concern. If Putin is gone and we have crippled the Russian economy and crushed the people- those people in desperation may turn to someone even worse.
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Or vice versa. I assume Putin knows where the possible threats to his control are, and has plans if they materialize. I would wonder about my security were I a Russian billionaire right now.
Actually when Vlad came to power he imprisoned a few of them.And what i read at the time confiscated the "goods"
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That’s definitely a legit fear/concern. If Putin is gone and we have crippled the Russian economy and crushed the people- those people in desperation may turn to someone even worse.
"WE" wouldn't have done shyt it was the collective if that scenario takes place.Just hope the whack doesn't start pushing buttons
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I think it was only a matter of time. The video evidence of Russian atrocities is just too compelling for the world powers not to be moved by it. I hope the oligarchs and other inner circle leaders understand that this spells the end of them and their families and everything they've ever known, if it comes to pass. And I hope they do something to stop it. It might or might not be within their power, but it's very close to the point where if they can't stop it, nobody can.
https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1499679745012871171?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499679745012871171%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FHenryJFoy%2Fstatus%2F1499679745012871171%3Fs%3D2026t%3Dvx7_shL4s1reOyl3UpYKtQ
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I wonder if we might hear of a couple Russian oligarchs dying in the next week or so.
Wouldn't surprise me. I would also expect that Putin to announce that they were traitors and confiscate their wealth.
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OK more recent news, so far the NATO powers are holding out and not going forward with any plans for a no-fly zone. But I'll be surprised if this is the final time it's debated.
https://twitter.com/RikardJozwiak/status/1499731594889859072?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499731594889859072%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FRikardJozwiak%2Fstatus%2F1499731594889859072%3Fs%3D2026t%3Dvx7_shL4s1reOyl3UpYKtQ
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I figure whoever follows Putin would have a basis for ending this war as best he can manage.
He would at least pretend to be a nice guy for a while to get sanctions lifted.
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As many have noted, a NATO no fly zone would mean war directly with Russia.
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My drive-by perplexities of the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine:
1. That convoy heading into Kyiv that's stalled going on 4 to 5 days now? "Food and Fuel" shortages, as reported, don't add up because this is a RESUPPLY convoy that was fully readied in Belarus about 100 miles north of Kyiv. By its very purpose it shouldn't be out of fuel, especially after its short trip from Belarus.
Guesses? My brother, an Arizona National Guard Vet with infantry experience in Afghanistan, believes it's a problem of disorganization among their officer ranks. I, on the other hand, wonder if the convoy is sitting there waiting until Russia can attain Air Superiority over Kyiv, which is another point of confusion among the experts. Which leads me to my next point...
2. Why isn't Russia making more of an effort for Air Superiority?
Guesses: They could have it if they wanted, and I wonder if they are holding back to temper demand for a No-Fly zone as would be enforced by NATO. From chatter amongst online Russian military experts, Russia’s centralized command and control abilities are highly disorganized; their Army, Air Force, & Navy don’t communicate with each other and don't like each other. One theory speculates that Russia hasn’t tried to established air superiority because they are afraid that their ground forces will fire on their own planes and in turn their Air Forces will end up bombing their own ground troops.
3. Why hasn't Ukraine's internet been shut off by its Russian owned service providers?
Answer from the Guardian: “Ukraine has a diverse internet infrastructure with few choke points – which means it’s difficult to switch off the country and there’s no centralised kill switch,” said Alp Toker of the monitoring organisation NetBlocks. If an invading nation desired to switch off Ukraine’s internet, this would really be a matter of physically entering internet exchange points and data centres and taking over that infrastructure. And it certainly can’t be done remotely by severing a connection with, say, Russia.”
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/01/could-russia-shut-down-the-internet-in-ukraine)
4. Why did western nations recant on promises to provide fighter jets?
Guess: Are fighter jets just too valuable for EU to give up should this get a lot worse and drew in NATO?
https://twitter.com/incontextmedia/status/1499305727453769730
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One major problem with NATO fighter jets is that Ukrainian pilots can't fly them. They only know older Russian jets. Most NATO countries use more modern Western jets. And even countries like Poland that still have some older Russian jets on-hand, would have to rip out the comms and some of the controls and replace them with the Ukrainian versions. Which really just isn't realistic.
In order to get NATO jets into Ukraine, you'd have to use NATO pilots. Which of course, is the big no-no right now.
And definitely on the internet infrastructure-- only totalitarian states like Russia and China have the capability to turn off or limit the internet within their borders, because they've designed it that way on purpose.
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(https://i.imgur.com/OkWJkel.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/i9mrLwR.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/vYt5A8D.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/QSUhsHb.png)
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Ukraine-climate nexus | Climate Etc. (judithcurry.com) (https://judithcurry.com/2022/03/02/ukraine-climate-nexus/#more-28399)
Michael Schellenberger has written a hard-hitting article entitled How the West’s Green Delusions Empowered Putin (https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/the-wests-green-delusions-empowered?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0MjgwMTk1LCJfIjoiTWVKWjQiLCJpYXQiOjE2NDYxNTM4NjcsImV4cCI6MTY0NjE1NzQ2NywiaXNzIjoicHViLTI2MDM0NyIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.9wXae5axt66wI2A8_G9Su_BM41KA1_QwuEbtFbnjq3c&s=r). Excerpts:
<begin quote>
How is it possible that European countries, Germany especially, allowed themselves to become so dependent on an authoritarian country over the 30 years since the end of the Cold War?
Here’s how: These countries are in the grips of a delusional ideology that makes them incapable of understanding the hard realities of energy production. Green ideology insists we don’t need nuclear and that we don’t need fracking. It insists that it’s just a matter of will and money to switch to all-renewables—and fast. It insists that we need “degrowth” (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-18/why-degrowth-may-be-necessary-to-prevent-climate-catastrophe) of the economy, and that we face looming human “extinction. (https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/extinction-rebellion-protest-london-city-airport-blind-james-brown-police-arrest-a9151186.html)”
While Putin expanded Russia’s oil production, expanded natural gas production, and then doubled nuclear energy production to allow more exports of its precious gas, Europe, led by Germany, shut down its nuclear power plants, closed gas fields, and refused to develop more through advanced methods like fracking.
The numbers tell the story best. In 2016, 30 percent of the natural gas consumed (https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/energy-economics/statistical-review-of-world-energy.html) by the European Union came from Russia. In 2018, that figure jumped to 40 percent. By 2020, it was nearly 44 percent, and by early 2021, it was nearly 47 percent.
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Yeah, Germany really screwed itself by being so reliant on one county for its energy needs and by basically banning nuclear energy. No country should rely so heavily on just one country for anything. And nuclear power is the renewable energy the entire world should be investing in, not shuttering. Trump called Germany and EU out for this to their faces many times, including in NATO meetings. But I suspect that is only because he wanted them to buy more American arms and to pay premiums for American LNG. The morons in his DOE like Ricky Perry were hilariously trying to sell US LNG as “freedom gas” to Germany. How ridiculous can you be? FREEDOM GAS!!
But I’m not sure I buy the part about being dependent on an authoritarian regime for energy really matters in the scheme of things - they changed their laws- needed needed energy- so they’ll go to the lowest cost/high volume producer. It’s just what nations do- they deal in best self-interests, that’s it. US has been dependent on a regime for exactly same reasons (what’s best for ME) and for exactly same thing and for maintaining US world hegemony for decades in relying on and even worse partnering with Saudi Arabia- a regime that makes Putin’s look like a puppy dog in comparison.
Russia was always going to go nuts over the Ukraine/NATO issue. Nothing that Germany did would’ve changed that except for force NATO to revoke Ukraine’s open ended invitation. Russia had built a pipeline with Germany that just cost $11 billion that they had to know they were going to lose for sure if they took this course of action- and they did it anyway. If EU wasn’t buying all that oil & gas, someone else would’ve. And even if Russia’s oil & gas sales weren’t as high in the EU as they’ve been they still would have a much larger population, military, and economy than Ukraine - they’d still have the numbers & military superiority advantage.
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Yeah, Germany really screwed itself by being so reliant on one county for its energy needs and by basically banning nuclear energy. No country should rely so heavily on just one country for anything. And nuclear power is the renewable energy the entire world should be investing in, not shuttering. Trump called Germany and EU out for this to their faces many times, including in NATO meetings. But I suspect that is only because he wanted them to buy more American arms and to pay premiums for American LNG. The morons in his DOE like Ricky Perry were hilariously trying to sell US LNG as “freedom gas” to Germany. How ridiculous can you be? FREEDOM GAS!!
Once again you show your dislike for Trump by calling his actions here just taken for self gain with no actual facts to support your statement and yes independence from Russia oil would be freedom
But I’m not sure I buy the part about being dependent on an authoritarian regime for energy really matters in the scheme of things - they changed their laws- needed needed energy- so they’ll go to the lowest cost/high volume producer. It’s just what nations do- they deal in best self-interests, that’s it. US has been dependent on a regime for exactly same reasons (what’s best for ME) and for exactly same thing and for maintaining US world hegemony for decades in relying on and even worse partnering with Saudi Arabia- a regime that makes Putin’s look like a puppy dog in comparison.
Trump had led the US to be independent of Saudi Arabia for oil production but Biden put a stop to that
Russia was always going to go nuts over the Ukraine/NATO issue. Nothing that Germany did would’ve changed that except for force NATO to revoke Ukraine’s open ended invitation. Russia had built a pipeline with Germany that just cost $11 billion that they had to know they were going to lose for sure if they took this course of action- and they did it anyway. If EU wasn’t buying all that oil & gas, someone else would’ve. And even if Russia’s oil & gas sales weren’t as high in the EU as they’ve been they still would have a much larger population, military, and economy than Ukraine - they’d still have the numbers & military superiority advantage.
This is proving to be hard for Russia to achieve with the current bank sanctions in place
Not sure what your message here is. US bad and Russia will win???
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(https://i.imgur.com/LSIEBbj.png)
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[img width=499.988 height=202.998]https://i.imgur.com/LSIEBbj.png[/img]
Yeah I just heard that the White House is considering banning all imports of Russian oil.
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Trump had led the US to be independent pf Saudi Arabia for oil production but Biden put a stop to that
(note, i had to quote another of your posts and replace the text because it wouldn't let me quote the one with this in it for some reason. that's why date/time stamp are wrong)
this isn't really true. the us started weening off saudi oil under obama, but did not keep up trend. trump did drop them more, and more significantly. but biden has, so far, kept it at roughly same (technically lower, but only slightly) than trump levels. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUSSA1&f=M
annual barrels of oil, in thousands
(https://i.imgur.com/QLhr6So.png)
opec oil imports also started to decrease under obama, and more so overall than just saudi alone. and it kept a downward trend throughout his tenure as well. trump saw a slight bump first 2 years in office, but then brought it back down to or slightly below when he took over. biden has, so far, continued this trend. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMXX1&f=M
over all imports follow a similar trend as the opec data. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUS1&f=M
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(https://i.imgur.com/LSIEBbj.png)
i almost included this data from russia, but it's all over the place compared to other imports, which are relatively steady. both trump and biden seemed to increase russian imports during their tenures, though i suspect biden's will look significantly different by the time he's out of office after these events, lol.
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Presidents don't "increase" imports. Their actions may impact imports, but the actual importation is done by private companies like Marathon et al.
Presidents in my view have a lot less control over such things than most think. They like to "partisanize" by pointing to bad/good things that happened while their guy was out of/in office when their guy often had little to do with the thing.
Current US oil production is ahead of every year except 2019, and we're close to 2019.
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back on topic a little...
russia considering suspending "elections"
https://twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/1499827642522083332?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499827642522083332%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_1e08601c-9bf1-11ec-ac1c-8a8d4da1eb34%2F0
2 thoughts occur - 1 guess putin might be tired of going through the charade. or 2 - he's somewhat scared of the chances he's removed, one way or the other. i guess both could be true.
also...
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499763642170019846?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499763642170019846%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_f36dae02-9bf0-11ec-989e-fab39dc014ee%2F0
some russian confirmation, of sorts, of the major losses they're incurring.
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Presidents don't "increase" imports. Their actions may impact imports, but the actual importation is done by private companies like Marathon et al.
Presidents in my view have a lot less control over such things than most think. They like to "partisanize" by pointing to bad/good things that happened while their guy was out of/in office when their guy often had little to do with the thing.
Current US oil production is ahead of every year except 2019, and we're close to 2019.
agreed 100%. tried explaining this (actually gas prices, but connected concept) to my daughter yesterday. best analogy i could think of was how a qb gets waaaaayyyy too much credit for wins and too much hate for losses. they have a significant impact on it, sure, but it's rarely their direct doing.
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this isn't really true. the us started weening off saudi oil under obama, but did not keep up trend. trump did drop them more, and more significantly. but biden has, so far, kept it at roughly same (technically lower, but only slightly) than trump levels. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUSSA1&f=M
annual barrels of oil, in thousands
Obama shut off oil exploration from federal lands and put various other roadblocks in place to slow down US oil exploration
Trump opened up federal lands to oil exploration and did various other things to increase US production
Under Trump the US became a net oil exporter for the first time in 75 years
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This isn't a discussion of Ukraine, so please stop, thanks.
I consider eliminating Russian oil imports to be a good thing given the current geopolitical environment and needs to sanction Russia in their war against Ukraine, and I'd be happy to see it carried through.
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Russia is now blocking social media (twitter and Facebook) in Russia.
Man if we could just do that in the US
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I'm now deleting posts again.
Nobody wants to hear your political rants on this thread.
Ukraine is the topic.
Thanks in advance.
Edit: The "your" political rants referenced above, is used collectively, not specifically toward any one poster.
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"I'll take, Americans are stupid for $400"
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-americans-broadly-support-ukraine-no-fly-zone-russia-oil-ban-poll-2022-03-04/?taid=622279289fa2ce00010f85ca&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
A broad bipartisan majority of Americans think the United States should stop buying Russian oil and gas and work with NATO to set up "no-fly zones" to protect Ukraine from Russian air strikes, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll completed on Friday.
The poll, conducted Thursday and Friday, suggests that U.S. outrage is growing over Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which in recent days has increasingly involved Russian bombing of urban areas.
Some 74% of Americans - including solid majorities of Republicans and Democrats - said the United States and its allies in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization should impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine, the poll found.
An equally bipartisan 80% of Americans said the United States should stop buying Russian oil. The White House on Friday said it was weighing cuts to U.S. imports of Russian oil, though it is proceeding cautiously, concerned about a spike in gasoline prices that would add to high inflation.
Let's start WWIII and nuclear armageddon, and exacerbate already record levels of high inflation! AMERICA! F**K YEAH!
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we should not impose a no fly zone however I feel strongly we should increase our oil production to offset loss of Russia oil and stop importing oil from Russia
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Presidents don't "increase" imports. Their actions may impact imports, but the actual importation is done by private companies like Marathon et al.
Presidents in my view have a lot less control over such things than most think. They like to "partisanize" by pointing to bad/good things that happened while their guy was out of/in office when their guy often had little to do with the thing.
Current US oil production is ahead of every year except 2019, and we're close to 2019.
Presidents definitely have a lot of control over many things. You're probably right though, they do get too much credit or blame- they aren't dictators. But they can also have huge effects on the price of oil. They can limit or increase drilling permits, pause oil leases or encourage more oil leasing - policy decisions that would affect the production and therefore supply.
They can also use their skills as negotiators to see if they can get Saudis/OPEC either ramp up or ramp down their production depending on US needs- as the previous guy did pretty successfully when he needed the Saudis/OPEC to increase production in 2018 and then when he needed them to cut production in 2020.
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An equally bipartisan 80% of Americans said the United States should stop buying Russian oil. The White House on Friday said it was weighing cuts to U.S. imports of Russian oil, though it is proceeding cautiously, concerned about a spike in gasoline prices that would add to high inflation.
I would have no problem with this if a plan was presented to the public in detail
We can ramp up production now and state that as of a certain future date we will stop importing oil from russia
if they remain in Ukraine
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Presidents can and have taken action to cause the US to increase oil production and with a ban which they can do the result would be the same
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Presidents can and have taken action to cause the US to increase oil production and with a ban which they can do the result would be the same
US is just one country though. Oil is a worldwide market. I want to say OPEC (of which Saudis are largest producer and largely control) produces around 40% of worlds oil. They are going to be the single largest influencer of oil prices.
A Presidents ability to get the Saudis/OPEC to do what he wants probably has more effect over the price of oil than US increasing or decreasing production. Trump was a master at getting the Saudis to do what he wanted them to do when it came to that.
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US is just one country though. Oil is a worldwide market. I want to say OPEC (of which Saudis are largest producer and largely control) produces around 40% of worlds oil. They are going to be the single largest influencer of oil prices.
A Presidents ability to get the Saudis/OPEC to do what he wants probably has more effect over the price of oil than US increasing or decreasing production. Trump was a master at getting the Saudis to do what he wanted them to do when it came to that.
Im thinking the US could actually aid Europe after its demands are met
I agree Saudi could ease the pain if it wanted to
Maybe we make a defense deal or weapon deal with them to increase the oil flow
not sure just brainstorming
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US is not interested in Russian "regime change" aka war with Russia.
America's top diplomat Antony Blinken says the US is not looking for regime change in Moscow.
Speaking to BBC World News, the secretary of state said "it is absolutely not up to us", calling on the Russian people to hold their own leadership accountable for the war.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60532634
Zelensky is now blasting NATO for not implementing a no-fly zone.
Reportedly speaking from his office in Kyiv, Zelensky condemned Nato leaders' refusal on Friday to establish a no-fly-zone over his country.
Zelensky said: "All the people who die, starting today, will also die because of you. Because of your weakness, because of your disconnection."
He continued: "The Nato summit took place today. A weak summit. A confused summit. A summit that shows that not everyone considers the fight for freedom for Europe the number one goal.
"All the intelligence agencies of the Nato countries are well aware of the enemy's plans. They confirmed that Russia wants to continue the offensive.
"Nato has deliberately decided not to close the skies over Ukraine. Nato countries created a narrative that closing the skies over Ukraine would provoke Russia's direct aggression against Nato.
“This is the self-hypnosis of those who are weak, insecure inside, despite the fact they possess weapons many times stronger than we have."
Zelensky later addressed large protests taking place across Europe, telling demonstrators: "If Ukraine does not survive, the whole of Europe will not survive.
"If Ukraine falls, the whole of Europe will fall."
Yeah, or not. If Ukraine falls, nothing falls, well except for Ukraine. And maybe, just maybe y'all shouldn't have bought into US/NATO's bullsh*t hook line and sinker? You guys pushed and pushed and pushed hard to join, especially post 2014 coup- and they never let you in. Should come as no surprise they aren't going to come to your defense now- as they haven't let you in for fourteen years and weren't about to anytime soon. I'd argue all the people who die, will die because of Russia...more specifically Vladimir Putin's Russia- not NATO.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/ukraines-deadly-gamble
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Russia is now blocking social media (twitter and Facebook) in Russia.
Man if we could just do that in the US
we could, it's very simple
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we could, it's very simple
tell me more comrade
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had a box in my office that could easily block facebook or twitter from all 4500 users on my network
I REALLY wanted to use it
the ISP that served our network and the majority of the state of Iowa had the same type of appliances
CALEA compliant appliances that can track anyone's internet usage if a judge issues a warrant
https://www.allot.com/service-providers/ (https://www.allot.com/service-providers/)
most ISPs have this ability
I'm positive the main providers in the nation have the means - it's a federally regulated requirement
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Commercial subnetworks can and do. They are tightly controlled for obvious reasons. That's not at all the same thing.
ISPs could but the legality of that is debatable. Beyond that, suffice to say that in a free market, it would be a pretty bold move to cut off your customers from the content they are paying money to receive. Not gonna last long that way.
And of course the mainstream ISPs aren't the only way to access global networks in the USA.
Not that I'm saying anyone should go out and do anything... questionable.
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had a box in my office that could easily block facebook or twitter from all 4500 users on my network
I REALLY wanted to use it
The push back from the Golf Coverage alone would have sent you packing
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Couple more yachts seized in Italy. It could almost be a drinking game...
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499926480087879685?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499926480087879685%7Ctwgr%5Ehb_2_8%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnexta_tv%2Fstatus%2F1499926480087879685%3Fs%3D21
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This is kind of on Ukraine.......they don't arm themselves at a national military level AND they don't get into the "friends who help friends" club.
Ehhhh, not a good combination.
How do they not have some sort of air defense???? It's unfathomable that another country can have a 40-mile long military caravan just driving around inside your country. That should be a bombing exercise set on "easy" for air support defenses. I mean damn.
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Attacking that column would require air attack assets, like A-10s, which they do not have, they have air defense apparently, some S-300 systems and some fighters still operational apparently, but so does Russia. And the column apparently is not moving. One report stated that the head of the column had been taken out, perhaps by Javelins, so it can't move and it's muddy off road.
I don't know what is meant by if Ukraine didn't arm themselves at a national military level.
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Arms are pouring in from European countries and the US, right?
Which means they didn't have what they needed to defend themselves. Zero air attack assets makes my brain melt.
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Ukraine is a very poor country by western standards, they simply lack the money for much military spending. The best ground attack assets for the money are helos. Helos don't do well in an environment with AA missiles all around. Russia has ten X the military spending and assets. Most of the help to Ukraine has been antitank missiles like Javelins and NLAWS (and basic munitions).
We can't very well send in F-16s and A-10s.
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A look at some military activity in airspace around Ukraine | Flightradar24 Blog (https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/a-look-at-some-military-activity-in-airspace-around-ukraine/?fbclid=IwAR3qAviCle3MVkbHI0aLm7yI1_Wvhnwk7DxgeWVl1iZPap7vvF_hzubfQys)
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Ukraine is a very poor country by western standards, they simply lack the money for much military spending. The best ground attack assets for the money are helos. Helos don't do well in an environment with AA missiles all around. Russia has ten X the military spending and assets. Most of the help to Ukraine has been antitank missiles like Javelins and NLAWS (and basic munitions).
We can't very well send in F-16s and A-10s.
Maybe I'm wrong, but if I was a poor country or not, my first military purchase would aircraft.
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the most expensive option?
and then have them all shot down in 24 hours
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the most expensive option?
and then have them all shot down in 24 hours
The most effective option. It doesn't matter anyway. They need allies and apparently don't have any "besties" - just countries like us tossing change at them while stopped at the red light.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but if I was a poor country or not, my first military purchase would aircraft.
Aircraft are the most expensive items you can buy, and maintain, and train pilots, etc. Poor countries will not have much of an air force.
A single guy on the ground with a fairly cheap Javelin missile can take out an armored vehicle with little training. Why do it from the air?
This is why the US wanted several times to shelve the A-10 and why the Marine Corps has gotten rid of its main battle tanks. Armor isn't what it used to be, it's somewhat akin to battleships in 1942, they look impressive but have limitations.
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(https://i.imgur.com/cXTW3TC.png)
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State Department advises Americans in Russia to leave. Duh.
Our cruiseline is giving us a 20% credit on the cruise since St. P was dropped. I presume they will add two days to other cities, which is fine with me. I did not expect a credit.
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The weapons Ukraine is using to hold back invading Russian Army | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10551271/The-weapons-Ukraine-using-hold-invading-Russian-Army.html)
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Speaking of which:
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1500180653622575108?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1500180653622575108%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FReuters%2Fstatus%2F1500180653622575108%3Fs%3D2026t%3D5bsXXmGl4xdbXJVPn8OHyQ
(https://i.imgur.com/dJFvO4y.png)
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https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1500120245289238531?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1500120245289238531%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FReuters%2Fstatus%2F1500120245289238531%3Fs%3D2026t%3DoLu6_oFRoFZXHIn0ypqh2w
You know what's even more like a declaration of war? Rolling your army into a separate sovereign country and shooting the place up, including wholesale slaughter of thousands of civilians.
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https://twitter.com/aviation07101/status/1500157654253064195?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1500157654253064195%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Faviation07101%2Fstatus%2F1500157654253064195
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https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1500146854885003271?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1500146854885003271%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FJimmySecUK%2Fstatus%2F1500146854885003271
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This Business Will Get Out of Control - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-JA1ffd5Ms)
Russians Dont Take A Dump, Son, Without A Plan - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YULytWUaKR0)
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eye witness report from insurgency in Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL-5uyp44WA
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The addictive spectacle of Russia’s WWII style invasion of Ukraine is over. After a week of immersing myself in however many raw videos of gun fighting, air sirens, leveled city squares, stalled convoys, interrogations of captured Russian soldiers, refugees piling onto trains, and the Ghost of Kyiv I’m moving into the stage of subdued mourning for all the lives senselessly lost from civilians to Ukrainian fighters to Russian fighters marched to their death by their corrupt government.
My Polish grandmother's side is all from Lviv before WWII when Lviv was part of Poland. When the Russians invaded they had a saying that “everything bad comes from the East” because the Russians both occupying Poland/Ukraine and those in Russia where my grandmother was eventually imprisoned were noticeably more backwards, openly drunk, impoverished, lawless, corrupt, impoverished, hostile to Catholicism, and uneducated compared to the rest of Europe. Guess we’re all having to again witness “everything bad comes from the East.”
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It is a shocking tragedy in this day and age, of course, "we" are not really so civilized in reality in this day and age.
The Nazis had a tough time with Ukrainian partisans, and Kiev was a stone in their shoe for a time also.
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It's nice that even when I'm out running errands, I can still keep tabs on where the Ukrainian president is, thanks to Marco Rubio
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In an unidentified room with a white wall? Possibly in Kyiv which geographically is about 1.3x the size of Chicago ? That should help the ruskies!
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Israeli PM flew to Russia to meet with Putin today in hopes to try to bring an end to the war. US withholding intelligence from Ukraine, for fear of being seen by Russia as a direct participant in the war. Elon Musk has sent Ukraine truckloads of Starlink terminals so Ukrainians can have access to Starlink's satellite internet network, governments tried to pressure Musk to block all Russian media on Starlink network, he refused citing free speech/free press concerns.
Ukraine apparently just executes one of it's diplomats involved in the negotiations with Russia. Yeah, so, that's not good. But this is the same country which is ranked by corruption indexes as the most corrupt country in Europe (and top 10 in the world), has passed laws to ban the Russian language (even though close to a quarter of the countries population was ethnic Russian and well over half the country speaks Russian), made the birthday of a Nazi collaborator who was responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jews and Poles in Ukraine- a national holiday, has banned opposition media it does not like, has arrested opposition politicians without real charge or trial, has incorporated a literal neo-nazi militia (Azov) into it's armed forces as an official wing of the national guard, and has been responsible for 84% of civilian deaths in the Donbas conflict from 2018-2021 (according to UN).
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1500151694591762442?s=20&t=mWoXCBd2AbFvWvXrz0ZvdQ
https://twitter.com/RichardEngel/status/1499756860106326016?s=20&t=mWoXCBd2AbFvWvXrz0ZvdQ
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1499976967105433600?s=20&t=ceovx-D6CdJPN5DUyJ0iWw
https://twitter.com/qaomene/status/1500113465813442567?s=20&t=mWoXCBd2AbFvWvXrz0ZvdQ
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Israeli PM flew to Russia to meet with Putin today in hopes to try to bring an end to the war. US withholding intelligence from Ukraine, for fear of being seen by Russia as a direct participant in the war. Elon Musk has sent Ukraine truckloads of Starlink terminals so Ukrainians can have access to Starlink's satellite internet network, governments tried to pressure Musk to block all Russian media on Starlink network, he refused citing free speech/free press concerns.
Ukraine apparently just executes one of it's diplomats involved in the negotiations with Russia.
what are you talking about
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In an unidentified room with a white wall? Possibly in Kyiv which geographically is about 1.3x the size of Chicago ? That should help the ruskies!
It's like failing a drug test at the NFL combine. Its an intelligence test. I don't care that you smoked weed. I care that you can't follow a simple instruction when you are told there are stakes.
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At least Desmond gets it
https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/desmond-howard-is-getting-crushed-for-unfortunate-tweet
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"Go Blue" - comrade,sit down and shut up
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We have a plan
https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1500325620789743622?s=20&t=dJMzuk1YawH6e2q5m0abCw
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F-22s are not very capable as bombers obviously. I think they can carry some ordnance.
If it's on wing pylons they are not stealthy.
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not meant to be stealthy in that scenario
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THOUGHT OF THE DAY:
"How lovely to think that no one need wait a moment, we can start now, start slowly changing the world!" - Anne Frank
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not meant to be stealthy in that scenario
Sure, that scenario is ridiculous of course. I suppose it was made in jest?
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You honestly believe it was in jest?
Why do people laud Trump's lack of a filter overall, but then pretend like he's being silly or coy when his most retarded ideas come out?
Yes, Mr. "Warp Speed" and "Space Force" wanted someone on a rickety old ladder hand-painting the Chinese flag on F-22s. Of course he did. Because it's him.
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I said I suppose it was made in jest, followed by a question mark. I didn't hear any context. So I don't know. And the "Space Force" is still a thing, of some sort. I don't understand it either.
The suggestion is so over the top that it could well have been a throw out to get a laugh or something, I don't know.
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Sure, that scenario is ridiculous of course. I suppose it was made in jest?
Of course it was. Even he knows it would never happen.
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I said I suppose it was made in jest, followed by a question mark. I didn't hear any context. So I don't know. And the "Space Force" is still a thing, of some sort. I don't understand it either.
The suggestion is so over the top that it could well have been a throw out to get a laugh or something, I don't know.
pretty sure I know
CNN knows as well, but they pretend to think it's not over the top to catch eyeballs
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Former President Trump (https://thehill.com/people/donald-trump) reportedly joked on Saturday that the U.S. should “put the Chinese flag” on F-22 fighter jets and “bomb the s---” out of Russia.
Trump made the comment to top Republican National Committee donors at a retreat in New Orleans, according to CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-russia-ukraine-nato-elections/).
The network reported that the former president suggested that the U.S. should blame China for the offensive, then watch as the two countries engage in a conflict.
“And then we say, 'China did it,' ” Trump said, which, according to an unidentified source cited by CBS News, elicited laughs in the room. “Then they start fighting with each other, and we sit back and watch.”
Trump jokes US should 'put the Chinese flag' on F-22 fighter jets and 'bomb the s---' out of Russia: report | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/597044-trump-jokes-us-should-put-the-chinese-flag-on-f-22-fighter-jets-and-bomb)
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Anyway, back to news from Ukraine after this message from our sponsors.
The various media outlets seem to be striving for "news" and finding rather little to report that is "new".
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They don't have camera crews in the cities that are currently being leveled. You have to look to internet and social media sources for that footage, and it's horrifying and heartbreaking.
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Apparently this was workers at a Russian factory doing a strike/walk-out, because their pay is practically worthless now.
https://twitter.com/ilya_shepelin/status/1500073553055657986?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1500109892585144321%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Frossman_ella%2Fstatus%2F1500109892585144321%3Ft%3DNKql23_nxQo9X5C3ATOAMQ26s%3D19
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The suggestion is so over the top that it could well have been a throw out to get a laugh or something, I don't know.
The suggestion is so ho-hum for him.
I honestly don't think he throws things out to get a laugh. I don't think he had any idea what will get a laugh and what won't. He's set in front of an audience or group of people that get erections anytime he speaks, so he knows he can say anything...and does.
Suggesting he shares this idea for a laugh and that idea for a different reason is giving him way too much credit. He vomits out every idea with no thought as to how it will be taken, just so long as it's admired.
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There was a saying in the Soviet Union:
"They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work."
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This isn't the thread to argue over how you feel about the former president. Take it somewhere else.
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easy there Sailor
that post disappeared!
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that post disappeared!
Hmmmm.... mysterious.
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Reported by Russian state media. Western analysts believe it could be a trial run, and will be restored within hours. Apparently flows were diminished/stopped at some point on Friday, too.
https://twitter.com/ASBMilitary/status/1500366963247394822?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1500366963247394822%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FASBMilitary%2Fstatus%2F1500366963247394822%3Fs%3D2026t%3Da5op6TLO9cNu3nuefvnrow
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Update – Ukraine conflict: NATO shores up enhanced Air Policing mission (janes.com) (https://www.janes.com/defence-news/defence/latest/update-ukraine-conflict-nato-shores-up-enhanced-air-policing-mission?fbclid=IwAR1j_S7dE3iFyHYMmfDrrI0ZL3gNDQbzNi6zKkflnGfq7ngNlP0b4styJXw)
NATO has rushed a lot more air assets to near the border, perhaps increasing chances for a mistake.
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Janes is authoritative, but they can obviously be wrong about details.
Ukraine conflict: Russia consolidates gains in south (janes.com) (https://www.janes.com/defence-news/defence/latest/ukraine-conflict-russia-consolidates-gains-in-south)
The second week of fighting in Ukraine began with Russian forces consolidating their gains in the south of the country but appearing not to be making any progress against the capital, Kyiv.
On 3 March, a senior US defence official estimated that 90% of Russian forces along the border, before the start of the invasion, are now on Ukraine soil. So far, Ukrainian forces claim to have pushed back one of the major lines of Russian advance towards Kyiv from the north, and Washington has agreed with that assessment.
“We certainly believe it is their intent to encircle [Kyiv] from multiple directions [and], right now, the closest that they are” is 15 miles (25 km) north of the city where a 40-mile (64 km) Russian military convoy is “stalled”, the US defence official said.
In the south, after occupying Kherson, Russia is reportedly working with the city's mayor to establish a military administration.
Russia also appears to have closed the encirclement around Mariupol, which is defended by a Ukrainian naval infantry unit. A camera crew from UK media outlet ITV filmed Russian-backed Donetsk People's Republic forces and Russian special forces on the outskirts of the town on 2 March.
The Pentagon still believes that Mariupol is under Ukrainian control.
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Stoli vodka announces rebrand - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/05/business/stoli-vodka-rebrand-russia/index.html)
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good to know
I wasn't going to pour my Stoli down the drain anyway
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Update – Ukraine conflict: NATO shores up enhanced Air Policing mission (janes.com) (https://www.janes.com/defence-news/defence/latest/update-ukraine-conflict-nato-shores-up-enhanced-air-policing-mission?fbclid=IwAR1j_S7dE3iFyHYMmfDrrI0ZL3gNDQbzNi6zKkflnGfq7ngNlP0b4styJXw)
NATO has rushed a lot more air assets to near the border, perhaps increasing chances for a mistake.
I got an idearrrrr
we paint 20 different flags on a bunch of jets and destroy the 40-mile sitting duck convoy......Russia won't know who to blame.
Vote for me!
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That column strikes me as irrelevant, at least for now. It was all in the news, and then whoosh. If the head is blocked and they can't go off road, it's just stuck, and irrelevant.
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The longer this goes on the more Putin's goose is cooked
Where are the United Nations in this
Why havent they called for a cease fire
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The UN routinely calls for cease fires, and they use harsh language at times.
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The UN routinely calls for cease fires, and they use harsh language at times.
not sure why you posted this
it doesnt answer my question
where is the UN in all of this
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not sure why you posted this
it doesnt answer my question
where is the UN in all of this
(https://i.imgur.com/clzjeCk.png)
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They are HQ'd in NYC. They took a vote condemning the attack. I'm not sure what you expect from them. The UN is about talk, and that is it.
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They are HQ'd in NYC. They took a vote condemning the attack. I'm not sure what you expect from them. The UN is about talk, and that is it.
Oh I didnt know they even made a peep about this
Nope all they can do is pass a resolution to condemn the Russian action
Why are we even a member of the UN its useless
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same goes for NATO
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You history buffs can tell me about this. Putin keeps talking about "denazification" and that sounds pretty weird. I'm aware of the connections to supposed neo-Nazis. However, western folks tend to think of Nazis as genocidal racists. Does it have a different connotation in Russia? Germany attacked Russia as sort of a sign of western domination of Europe, and Ukraine was seen as key to the operation.
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I don't know what else can be expected from the UN, they have no independent military on call. They talk, and vote.
It's all they can do really.
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Putin uses the term "Nazi" to refer to enemies, he knows it arouses feelings in Russia. It's simply a tactic to justify the invasion of Ukraine internally.
I am fairly sure the morale of the Russian soldier is pitiful and they have to be given some justification for shooting other Russian speaking folks who look like them.
It reminds me in some few respects of the US Civil War.
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So about Russia's SWIFT sanction, my bank has redeposited a recent gift I'd made to a Russian individual whom I'm friends with from their time as a college student in the U.S. (U of Minnesota). My bank is saying they no longer have a way to do business with Russian banks or bank accounts accessed by those within Russia.
It got me thinking about the 2 or 3 missionaries assigned to Russia in concert with my Dad's church and the IMB (International Missions Board based out of Richmond VA). Yes they would have American Bank accounts but the headache would be accessing those accounts while they are in Russia. By recommendation of our State Department, American citizens are advised to leave Russia, but missionaries usually ignore this. However, an inability to access their funds might force them back.
For anyone wondering why I send my Russian friend funds once in a while, it is because outside of Moscow and Saint Petersburg Russians live in Third World destitution and grow up in a surprisingly self-destructive culture that leaves too many broken beneath a very long and still active history of widespread corruption, bribery, alcoholism, inescapable poverty, and reinforced ignorance. $100 goes a long way.
If you 1) have 20 minutes to read and 2) don't mind weathering the disbelief over how depressing growing up and living in Russia is, check out this article:
https://medium.com/@meohoh/twelve-reasons-why-russia-sucks-9ceb0feddcd6
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live in Third World destitution and grow up in a surprisingly self-destructive culture that leaves too many broken beneath a very long and still active history of widespread corruption, bribery, alcoholism, inescapable poverty, and reinforced ignorance. $100 goes a long way.
Sounds a lot like the cities and towns that have been highly impoverished and crime-ridden for decades here in the U.S.
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not sure why you posted this
it doesnt answer my question
where is the UN in all of this
the UN is a toothless, feckless, useless organization that has no real power. They've done nothing about American or Israeli atrocities for decades, in large part because America has used it's veto power to block any UN resolutions or action as one of the permanent members of the UN security council.
They can't do anything now either. Russia also has veto power as one of the five permanent members of the UN security council.
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You history buffs can tell me about this. Putin keeps talking about "denazification" and that sounds pretty weird. I'm aware of the connections to supposed neo-Nazis. However, western folks tend to think of Nazis as genocidal racists. Does it have a different connotation in Russia? Germany attacked Russia as sort of a sign of western domination of Europe, and Ukraine was seen as key to the operation.
Yeah, so they aren't supposed neo-nazis, they are neo-nazis. And the Ukraine gov't has given political cover and made concessions to some of these neo-nazi groups and actually incorporated some of them into their official armed forces. I can link you article after article from news source after news source, even ones from Bellingcat (who have been accused of just being a CIA front) - that prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I think this is just Putin using a small kernel of truth- and stretching it out massively to fit his narrative in his justification of this war. Every country has to come up with bullsh*t reasons and propaganda to start an invasion of another country. US are experts at this. There is a small, but dangerous neo-nazi element in Ukraine- with hooks into the gov't and armed forces- and Putin has tried to use this as propaganda to say the entire population is full of neo-nazis (even though the neo-nazi political parties got less than 3% of the vote in their last elections) and the entire gov't are neo-nazis- which is obviously ridiculous and not true.
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Putin uses the term "Nazi" to refer to enemies, he knows it arouses feelings in Russia. It's simply a tactic to justify the invasion of Ukraine internally.
I am fairly sure the morale of the Russian soldier is pitiful and they have to be given some justification for shooting other Russian speaking folks who look like them.
It reminds me in some few respects of the US Civil War.
this. +1.
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Sounds a lot like the cities and towns that have been highly impoverished and crime-ridden for decades here in the U.S.
yeah, tell me about it. Detroit says what up. before this war and the crippling sanctions on Russia- you'd probably be better off living in a destitute Russian city than in most neighborhoods in Detroit.
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Yeah, so they aren't supposed neo-nazis, they are neo-nazis. And the Ukraine gov't has given political cover and made concessions to some of these neo-nazi groups and actually incorporated some of them into their official armed forces. I can link you article after article from news source after news source, even ones from Bellingcat (who have been accused of just being a CIA front) - that prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I think this is just Putin using a small kernel of truth- and stretching it out massively to fit his narrative in his justification of this war. Every country has to come up with bullsh*t reasons and propaganda to start an invasion of another country. US are experts at this. There is a small, but dangerous neo-nazi element in Ukraine- with hooks into the gov't and armed forces- and Putin has tried to use this as propaganda to say the entire population is full of neo-nazis (even though the neo-nazi political parties got less than 3% of the vote in their last elections) and the entire gov't are neo-nazis- which is obviously ridiculous and not true.
What asking is when Russians use the term "nazi" do they think of Nazis less as anti-Jew and more as anti-Russia.
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What asking is when Russians use the term "nazi" do they think of Nazis less as anti-Jew and more as anti-Russia.
I think it means almost nothing about anti-Jew, I think.
Nazis were "bad", duh, aside from the antiSemitism thing. You might notice at times Dems here demonizing Reps with extreme terms, and vice versa.
I think sending money to a friend in Russia is a great thing, if able to do it.
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I still don't know what anyone expects the UN to be able to do here, even if Russia is not on the SC. The main body voted against the invasion recently, and?
Nada.
I don't know what anyone expects NATO to do about this either beyond being on alert and trying to send stuff to Ukraine. There must be an open link from Kyiv west that is still open, I expect that to get closed soon, if not already.
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I think it means almost nothing about anti-Jew, I think.
Nazis were "bad", duh, aside from the antiSemitism thing. You might notice at times Dems here demonizing Reps with extreme terms, and vice versa.
Sure, but without the Holocaust, the Nazis would be another also-ran of history, instead of a constant boogeyman that we compare everyone we hate to. But Russia fought a notoriously brutal war against the Nazis, and seems important to think about the nazis having a different connotation in Russia as opposed to here. We think of neo-nazis as glorified KKK members, while Ukrainian neo-nazis probably have a bit of that, but probably a different motivation.
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Take away the Holocaust, and Hitler and the Nazis still started by far the most destructive war in history. I don't think they'd be any also ran in history.
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Take away the Holocaust, and Hitler and the Nazis still started by far the most destructive war in history. I don't think they'd be any also ran in history.
I think they almost unquestionably would be. At least here.
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WW II led to the most casualties in any US war as well, save the Civil. The Nazis probably would have had a more effective war machine had they more or less tolerated the Jews. Many German Jews fought effectively in WW One, and a couple were influential in technical matters.
Haber comes to mind, though he tried to act like he wasn't Jewish. Think of the "Einsteins" who left Germany because of Hitler.
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I think, rightly or wrongly, that neoNazis are basically against anyone who isn't like "us". Nationalism, no diversity, no tolerance for those who are different. And ironically they are fighting against many folks who are the same.
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I still don't know what anyone expects the UN to be able to do here, even if Russia is not on the SC. The main body voted against the invasion recently, and?
Nada.
I don't know what anyone expects NATO to do about this either beyond being on alert and trying to send stuff to Ukraine. There must be an open link from Kyiv west that is still open, I expect that to get closed soon, if not already.
this. not much either one can do. UN has no teeth and Ukraine isn't a NATO member.
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I imagine some move to FL to avoid state income taxes, which tend to be high in "blue states", I don't know of an exception.
At any rate, Ukraine is the topic, again.
Janes Analysis: Ukraine Crisis (https://www.janes.com/defence-news/defence/latest/ukraine-crisis)
Interesting to read the various daily announcements and comments leading up to this.
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NATO's essential and enduring purpose is to safeguard the freedom and security of all its members by political and military means. Collective defence is at the heart of the Alliance, as set out in Article 5 of the Washington Treaty. NATO's greatest responsibility is to protect and defend Allied territory and populations against attack in a world where peace and security cannot be taken for granted.
Deterrence is a core element of NATO's overall strategy: preventing conflict and war, protecting Allies, maintaining freedom of decision and action, and upholding the principles and values it stands for – individual liberty, democracy, human rights and the rule of law. Free societies and the rules-based international order need to be backed by credible transatlantic defence.
NATO's capacity to deter and defend is supported by an appropriate mix of nuclear, conventional, and missile defence capabilities, which complement each other, and is underpinned by an array of civil and military resources to support these capabilities and the posture more broadly. NATO also maintains the freedom of action and flexibility to respond to the full spectrum of challenges with an appropriate and tailored approach.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_133127.htm (https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_133127.htm)
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Yeah, the core concept is peace through strength of collective power. Putin likely understands an attack on NATO would not go well for him, judging from how his forces have looked thus far. Unless he's crazy.
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Yeah, the core concept is peace through strength of collective power. Putin likely understands an attack on NATO would not go well for him, judging from how his forces have looked thus far. Unless he's crazy.
the core concept and the entire reason for the Washington Treaty was to prevent Soviet incursion into Western Europe. Soviet Union has been long dead. Instead of disbanding it outright or reimagining it from a military alliance into a political one- US kept expanding it east, stupidly.
NATO existed, and it added 4 more countries (Greece, Turkey, Spain, and Germany) before the fall of the Soviet Union. Cool, fine. Soviet Union died, NATO should've basically died with it. All this expansion has been no good for anybody- certainly not America. Call me crazy, but I don't think a single dollar of American treasure or one drop of American blood is worth defending little insignificant shitbag countries like North Macedonia, Montenegro, Croatia, Albania, Slovenia, Slovakia, and all the other akia, ias, and anias in Eastern Europe thousands of miles away from the USA. It's really not our f**king problem. We have enough crap we need to fix here.
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the core concept and the entire reason for the Washington Treaty was to prevent Soviet incursion into Western Europe. Soviet Union has been long dead. Instead of disbanding it outright or reimagining it from a military alliance into a political one- US kept expanding it east, stupidly.
NATO existed, and it added 4 more countries (Greece, Turkey, Spain, and Germany) before the fall of the Soviet Union. Cool, fine. Soviet Union died, NATO should've basically died with it. All this expansion has been no good for anybody- certainly not America. Call me crazy, but I don't think a single dollar of American treasure or one drop of American blood is worth defending little insignificant shitbag countries like North Macedonia, Montenegro, Croatia, Albania, Slovenia, Slovakia, and all the other akia, ias, and anias in Eastern Europe thousands of miles away from the USA. It's really not our f**king problem. We have enough crap we need to fix here.
While I dont think NATO is no longer needed when The Soviet Union became Russia I do agree that the US should not be a member. The US could still support it with arms but not be bound by a treaty.
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The idea is to prevent a war, much as having 2nd ID in South Korea is meant to prevent a war there. I like that idea, as a concept, it's not always fulfilled of course.
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Why Does the U.S. Buy Russian Oil? - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-does-the-u-s-still-buy-russian-oil-11646151935?st=dnav9hiyq6oj270&mod=WSJACQ_US_RussiaUkraine_OPW&fbclid=IwAR28EeqeHItX8B2XIqtlOH3KYX2SyeD4I9W2URI6dR-q-3Fcn1BNHEwVUzs)
Free to read, why and where we use Russian oil etc.
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This thread isn't about American politics in South Florida. Stop it. You're like 5-year-olds only not as clever.
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This thread isn't about American politics in South Florida. Stop it. You're like 5-year-olds only not as clever.
man that was 5 or 6 hours age utee
I think the statute of limitations must have run out
anyway just hogtie oam problem solved
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https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1500502132721688577?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1500527623767789572%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fallaiya%2Fstatus%2F1500527623767789572%3Fs%3D21
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Russia is bluffing
no way they attack a NATO country
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Putin's already said he considers the sanctions tantamount to an act of war.
What's he gonna do about it? Start a nuclear war that eradicates him and everyone else he's ever know from the face of the planet?
Good luck with that.
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My understanding is Russia has taken out their airport so I wonder just where their aircraft are taking off from if they have any left
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Putin thinks he knows
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My understanding is Russia has taken out their airport so I wonder just where their aircraft are taking off from if they have any left
Ukraine would have multiple fields available to stage military aircraft. The west near Lviv is appaarently not being attacked. Yet.
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https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1500502132721688577?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1500527623767789572%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fallaiya%2Fstatus%2F1500527623767789572%3Fs%3D21
This would be very very very bad if he means it, I don't think he does, really.
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he yaps a lot
hopefully he's not crazy and hell bent on WWIII
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Russia provided North Korea and Vietnam with aircraft while we were in a shooting war with them. And Russia even secretly provided pilots during the Korean War. Ukraine should just fly them in from Poland and the other donor countries. And maybe do a Kremlin fly by.
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The US has mach 5 hypersonic missiles in Mainz-Kastel Germany that could hit Moscow in 21 minutes. Maybe Finland, Poland, and the Baltic states would like a few?
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Sounds a lot like the cities and towns that have been highly impoverished and crime-ridden for decades here in the U.S.
Not.
Even.
Close.
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The US has mach 5 hypersonic missiles in Mainz-Kastel Germany that could hit Moscow in 21 minutes. Maybe Finland, Poland, and the Baltic states would like a few?
What type are those?
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These are the Ten Hypersonic Missiles That America Is Building | The National Interest (https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/these-are-ten-hypersonic-missiles-america-building-199423)
America doesn’t expect to see its first fully operational Mach 5+ weapons enter service until next year (2023) at the earliest.
The United States of America may be lagging behind nations like Russia and China in fielding hypersonic missiles, but that’s not necessarily the same as being behind in the hypersonic arms race. While the idea of this modern arms race has been framed in the minds of many as a rush to develop and field hypersonic weapons, the truth is, hurrying to get them into service wouldn’t provide the U.S. with much in the way of real military capability.
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The US has mach 5 hypersonic missiles in Mainz-Kastel Germany that could hit Moscow in 21 minutes. Maybe Finland, Poland, and the Baltic states would like a few?
What type are those?
Types that go BOOM
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The US and other NATO members have so far sent Ukraine 17,000 anti-tank missiles and 2,000 stinger anti-aircraft missiles, a senior US official told CNN.
Zounds, if true, and if only 5% of the ATGMs take out a vehicle, that's a lot of vehicles.
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I was hoping for a 25% hit rate
that's a lot of tanks
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I presume many have not yet been fired, of those fired, I think a 1 in 4 hit rate is about right, it would be higher in highly trained hands of course, and not every vehicle targeted would be a tank.
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What type are those?
They're called Dark Eagle. The US 56th Artillery Command got the first of them in November.
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‘Dark Eagle’ has landed: US Army finishes equipping first unit with hypersonic capability — minus the missiles (defensenews.com) (https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-news/2021/10/07/dark-eagle-has-landed-us-army-finishes-equipping-first-unit-with-hypersonic-capability-minus-the-missiles/)
Now that the unit has the necessary equipment, it can begin training for the first joint flight campaign test scheduled with the Navy for the first quarter of FY22. The unit will also prepare for subsequent tests in the fourth quarter of FY22 and the second quarter of FY23.
That doesn't sound operational to me.
Army fields prototype launchers for ‘Dark Eagle’ hypersonic missile | Stars and Stripes (https://www.stripes.com/branches/army/2021-10-08/hypersonic-missile-army-dark-eagle-3168894.html)
the Army expects the weapon to be ready by 2023. The Dark Eagle is designed to fly 3,800 mph and hit targets 1,700 miles away with precision.
The hypersonic glide missiles are not functionally all that different from regular rockets from what I can discern. They launch a warhead to high altitude and then it "glides" to target.
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They say precision but I remember hearing that about the Patriot Missile System( 1st Gulf War) and the surrounding propoganda. The masses were fed a bunch of bombast with films of scud missiles being taken out.Turns out this was a charade orchestrated at the highest levels of government.Had these same assholes who designed these debacles pulled that in China/Russia/Saudia Arabia they would have been executed.Instead they cashed big checks that as far as I know were not returned.
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‘Dark Eagle’ has landed: US Army finishes equipping first unit with hypersonic capability — minus the missiles (defensenews.com) (https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-news/2021/10/07/dark-eagle-has-landed-us-army-finishes-equipping-first-unit-with-hypersonic-capability-minus-the-missiles/)
Now that the unit has the necessary equipment, it can begin training for the first joint flight campaign test scheduled with the Navy for the first quarter of FY22. The unit will also prepare for subsequent tests in the fourth quarter of FY22 and the second quarter of FY23.
That doesn't sound operational to me.
Army fields prototype launchers for ‘Dark Eagle’ hypersonic missile | Stars and Stripes (https://www.stripes.com/branches/army/2021-10-08/hypersonic-missile-army-dark-eagle-3168894.html)
the Army expects the weapon to be ready by 2023. The Dark Eagle is designed to fly 3,800 mph and hit targets 1,700 miles away with precision.
The hypersonic glide missiles are not functionally all that different from regular rockets from what I can discern. They launch a warhead to high altitude and then it "glides" to target.
These articles are from October. The missiles I refereed to were deployed in Germany in mid-November. Dark Eagle and 8 other hypersonic missile systems were bigly funded and fast tracked. But you never know, maybe the missiles were just painted cardboard tubes.
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My read is they were placed in Europe and are undergoing tests before being operational in 2023.
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I think that unit also has cruise missiles. The 56th fielded Pershing missiles in Europe back during Cold War 1.
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So we're trying to get Poland to provide fighter jets that we'd then replace for them?
Yeah, Russia would be cool with that.
Smooth.
~???
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So we're trying to get Poland to provide fighter jets that we'd then replace for them?
Yeah, Russia would be cool with that.
Smooth.
~???
Money, money, money…..MONEY!
NATO exists now largely just to protect energy infrastructure/supply chain and shipping lanes and as a pretty slick racket to sell an ever expanding group of European and Eurasian countries weapons from US defense contractors. US exports 40% of all arms exported in the world. Basically double the next closest competitor- which happens to be Russia. When NATO expands to add more countries and when countries in NATO actually decide to start spending 2% or more of gdp (like Germany now is) - where do you think they’re going to be spending most of that money and be getting most of those arms from? US baby.
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So we're trying to get Poland to provide fighter jets that we'd then replace for them?
Yeah, Russia would be cool with that.
NATO has been slowly trying to standardize armament for decades. This will probably accelerate that some. Russia doesn't have a vote in this, so what they think is irrelevant.
And if you imagine that Poland got these fighters somewhere before 1999, at the latest, you can imagine they are not very modern fighters. I doubt Poland was buying Russian aircraft after joining NATO. Our F-16s are getting a bit long in the tooth but they'd be an upgrade for Poland.
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I see it as laundering fighter jets through Poland so that Russia can't get mad at us.
In a BS "you've got to be kidding' sort of way.
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Germany prefers buying German/European arms.
Active German Air Force (Luftwaffe) Aircraft (2022) (militaryfactory.com) (https://www.militaryfactory.com/modern-airpower/aircraft-german-air-force.php)
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I see it as laundering fighter jets through Poland so that Russia can't get mad at us.
In a BS "you've got to be kidding' sort of way.
NATO has been slowly trying to standardize armament for decades. This will probably accelerate that some. Russia doesn't have a vote in this, so what they think is irrelevant.
And if you imagine that Poland got these fighters somewhere before 1999, at the latest, you can imagine they are not very modern fighters. I doubt Poland was buying Russian aircraft after joining NATO. Our F-16s are getting a bit long in the tooth but they'd be an upgrade for Poland.
Right. Poland is a NATO country so there's not any attempt at subterfuge here. Everyone, including and especially Russia, already knows the US and many other NATO countries are supplying arms to Ukraine. That's no secret.
The reason Poland would be providing the jets is because they're the only NATO country that has any real inventory of Migs and other old Russian fighting equipment. Ukraine pilots can't fly American F16s. They're trained on Russian Migs. But even with Polish Migs, the controls and comms might be so different that there might not be much chance of training up Ukraine pilots in a reasonable amount of time-- but seems like they want to give it a shot anyway.
And the US will backfill the loss of those Polish Migs, with (slightly) more modern F16s.
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Putin's already said he considers the sanctions tantamount to an act of war.
What's he gonna do about it? Start a nuclear war that eradicates him and everyone else he's ever know from the face of the planet?
Good luck with that.
Sanctions this draconian are an act of war imo. Blockades are an act of war- these type of sanctions and removing them from swift is basically a 21st century blockade of their entire economy.
Now, Russia or Putin regime in Russia needs to pay a price. And I’d much rather use economic warfare to choke that regime than actually going to war with boots on the ground and establishing no fly zones. Duh.
Russian military law/doctrine now says they basically can use nukes as a first strike deterrent. I think they changed it in 2019. It basically says that they can use nukes in retaliation to a non-nuclear attack now. Which alone is foolish and dangerous and crazy. I only hope that Putin isn’t this dumb. And if NATO were to get involved and then he’s fighting 30 countries (including US war machine) instead of just 1 overmatched smaller neighbor - who the F knows. He might just press that button and then the end of the world could be upon us.
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Aside from being somewhat more modern, it would help standardize NATO aircraft inventory versus having Russian fighters. That helps a lot of things.
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I don't think the phrase "first strike deterrent" makes much sense.
A bit of an oxymoron.
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Time To Kiss The MiG-29 Goodbye (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2020/11/06/time-to-kiss-the-mig-29-goodbye/?sh=30e1045a6458)
From 2020. Says Poland has 30 of them, the older types.
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https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1500841865725292545?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1500841865725292545%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fiaponomarenko%2Fstatus%2F1500841865725292545%3Fs%3D21
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No surprises here:
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1500874610740498436?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1500874610740498436%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1500874610740498436%3Fs%3D2026t%3DcPKjmn9InjsB0OKOLGoRDA
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The thread topic is Ukraine.
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No surprises here:
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1500874610740498436?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1500874610740498436%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1500874610740498436%3Fs%3D2026t%3DcPKjmn9InjsB0OKOLGoRDA
Yeah no surprise and very predictable.
EU citizens already pay some of the highest prices in the world for gasoline and diesel at the pump. I believe they are still banning oil from Iran. If they started banning oil from Russia, the already ridiculously high prices they pay for gasoline would probably just skyrocket.
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Seems like a no-brainer?
https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1500810351192985600?s=20&t=QhbUBCeUKFlrGl2PkdTe3A
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Putin has announced many times what his actual terms are, and those aren't it.
I believe we can take him at his word when he says he plans to "de-nazify" and "de-militarize" Ukraine. What that means, of course, is kill the current Ukrainian government, replace it with a Russian puppet government, and replace Ukraine's military with friendly Russian "peace-keeping" force.
I won't speak for Ukraine, it's their country and it's up to them to decide, but I don't see them accepting those terms.
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They may accept those terms at the point of a bayonet eventually.
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I doubt it. If Russia can't be convinced to withdraw, then I believe they're all in for a protracted insurgency.
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Seems like a no-brainer?
https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1500810351192985600?s=20&t=QhbUBCeUKFlrGl2PkdTe3A
NATO thing seems like a legit gripe. EU thing is massive over reach. Ukraine is NUTS to want to join the EU imo. Basically giving up your sovereignty to an unelected body in Brussels- and giving up control of your currency is de facto giving up your sovereignty. UK was smart to never adopt the Euro and even smarter to leave the EU.
They should make a compromise for crimea come up with a way to govern it jointly and guarantee Russia they can have their naval base and Eastern Ukraine should reunite with Ukraine. But part of me also thinks that if certain regions of a nation want to break free from said nation they should be allowed to.
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I doubt it. If Russia can't be convinced to withdraw, then I believe they're all in for a protracted insurgency.
Probably so, but by then Ukraine would have fulfilled the above obligations anyway.
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Probably so, but by then Ukraine would have fulfilled the above obligations anyway.
Not willingly, which is kind of the point. These aren't terms for peaceful resolution, they're Putin's ultimatum for complete control.
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NATO thing seems like a legit gripe. EU thing is massive over reach. Ukraine is NUTS to want to join the EU imo. Basically giving up your sovereignty to an unelected body in Brussels- and giving up control of your currency is de facto giving up your sovereignty. UK was smart to never adopt the Euro and even smarter to leave the EU.
They should make a compromise for crimea come up with a way to govern it jointly and guarantee Russia they can have their naval base and Eastern Ukraine should reunite with Ukraine. But part of me also thinks that if certain regions of a nation want to break free from said nation they should be allowed to.
so if Ukraine agreed to that what have the Russians accomplished for all the crap they have to wade through
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I think Russia finally prevails in Ukraine, and sticks their government in place. It will be a festering sore, but it won't be joining NATO/EU and that Quiskling government will agree to loss of Crimea et al. and probably more.
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I think Russia finally prevails in Ukraine, and sticks their government in place. It will be a festering sore, but it won't be joining NATO/EU and that Quiskling government will agree to loss of Crimea et al. and probably more.
I think Russia could have achieved that with much less of the crap they have now
and dont just assume Russia would win an insurgency war as was shown when they tried to take over Afghanistan
they are not very good at that kind of war
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As I posted before, Putin is in a lose-lose situation, even winning is losing. He would have been way better off not invading.
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I think Russia could have achieved that with much less of the crap they have now
and dont just assume Russia would win an insurgency war as was shown when they tried to take over Afghanistan
they are not very good at that kind of war
You may be right but are the Ukranians prepared to live a hand to mouth existence like the Afghans who are use to that type of living.Hopefully it doesn't sink to that
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As I posted before, Putin is in a lose-lose situation, even winning is losing. He would have been way better off not invading.
He's what 70 and just may not give a shit
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Possibilities:
1. Russia finally "wins" and puts its government in charge. The people are surly and angry but not broadly resistant.
2. Above, but the people largely do resist and commit partisan acts.
3. Stalemate, Russia can "win" but they don't leave either. Fait accompli.
4. Russia agrees to cease fire and pulls back forces to some extent in return for some concessions.
5. Ukraine manages to eject Russian forces, I don't find this plausible.
6. Putin goes down and we have some blend of 4 and 5.
My guess is a hybrid between 1 and 2.
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"Between 1 and 2" I think it'll really depend on how many civilians dickface Putin chooses to murder through overt acts of violence, and starvation. If it's in the millions, then eventually I could see the fight going out of the Ukrainian defenders.
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Think Syria, today, whatever is going on there probably.
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even if he installs a puppet gov't, he'll have to deal with an insurgency that lasts forever until Russia just ups and leaves.
Seems to me like the only way you can actually hold a country and reshape it to your will without having an insurgency is to completely destroy it like the allies did with Germany and Japan in WW2 and just crush the will of the people.
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Possibilities:
1. Russia finally "wins" and puts its government in charge. The people are surly and angry but not broadly resistant.
2. Above, but the people largely do resist and commit partisan acts.
3. Stalemate, Russia can "win" but they don't leave either. Fait accompli.
4. Russia agrees to cease fire and pulls back forces to some extent in return for some concessions.
5. Ukraine manages to eject Russian forces, I don't find this plausible.
6. Putin goes down and we have some blend of 4 and 5.
My guess is a hybrid between 1 and 2.
If Ukraine continues to receive support from other countries Im thinking it will be either 4 or 6
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The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan lasted 10 years
During this time Russia had 15,000 casualties and lost over 300 helicopters and over 100 jets
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Analysis: Vladimir Putin's clumsy military campaign in southern Ukraine makes little sense - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/07/europe/russia-southern-ukraine-military-analysis-intl/index.html)
I found this interesting (and yes, it's CNN, but I think they do have some good correspondents mostly overseas).
The guy is perplexed by what the Russians are doing, and he's there apparently.
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The guy is perplexed by what the Russians are doing, and he's there apparently.
I think the Russian soldiers are perplexed, too.
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Maybe everyone is perplexed, I know I am. I wonder if the field commanders are as unmotivated as the troops. They get orders to go in and most know it's a very very dumb idea, so they slavishly just follow orders with no variation or creativity or response to the situation on the ground. Dunno.
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the belle of the DC right-wing ball Miss Lindsey Graham herself is a bit catty I do declare, doubling down on calls to assassinate Putin. Like, I get the sentiment and all that, but probably not a great idea when an active US Senator keeps calling for this and we're trying to deescalate tensions, not ramp them up to level 11.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/hackingbutlegal/status/1500465032966062082?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1500465032966062082%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fworld%2Frussia-ukraine-war-russian-military-commander-pow-nazis-ukraine
Very telling in one way- not surprising in another. But… wow
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I remind you this is the Ukraine thread.
Discussions of out of office politicians with no relevance to the current war can go to the other news thread, or even better, Area 51.
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LVIV, Russia — A Russian general was killed in the fighting around Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second-largest city, which Russian forces have been trying to seize since the invasion began, the Ukrainian military intelligence agency said.
It identified him as Maj. Gen. Vitaly Gerasimov, 45, and said he had fought with Russian forces in Syria and Chechnya and had taken part in the seizure of Crimea in 2014.
It was not possible to confirm the death independently. Russia has not commented.
Another Russian general was killed earlier in the fighting. A local officers’ organization in Russia confirmed the death in Ukraine of Maj. Gen. Andrei Sukhovetsky, the commanding general of the Russian 7th Airborne Division.
Sukhovetsky also took part in Russia’s military campaign in Syria.
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UNITED NATIONS -- Ukraine’s U.N. ambassador says 12 days of an all-out invasion by Russia has brought Ukraine to “the brink of humanitarian catastrophe of potentially global nature.”
Sergiy Kyslytsya, speaking Monday at a U.N. Security Council meeting on the crisis, accused Russia of blocking numerous attempts by Ukrainian authorities to evacuate civilians through humanitarian corridors.
He said Russians shelled depots with evacuation buses near Mariupol and blew up the railway near Irpin in the Kyiv region to prevent evacuation by train. He said Russia bombed and launched missiles at those cities and others like Kharkiv on Monday.
Kyslytsya said Russia must stop violating cease-fire arrangements and allow safe passage through humanitarian corridors, end disinformation, and implement the U.N. General Assembly’s resolution calling for an immediate stop to fighting.
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Kyslytsya said Russia must stop violating cease-fire arrangements and allow safe passage through humanitarian corridors, end disinformation, and implement the U.N. General Assembly’s resolution calling for an immediate stop to fighting.
Yep, they'll get right on that.
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Diplomats have to say these things anyway.
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no
they don't
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no
they don't
A Ukrainian diplomat doesn't have to say "Russia really must stop killing us when they agreed to not kill us for a bit?"
Even though everyone knows Russia won't stop?
Of course he has to say that.
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The UN is the meme of the person saying "everything is fine" while a house burns around them. No, they're not actually saying any of this is fine, but they're using words as if it's going to do anything.
They might as well form their hands into a gun shape and yell, "pew pew, Russia, pew pew!" It would be equally as helpful.
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The UN is the meme of the person saying "everything is fine" while a house burns around them. No, they're not actually saying any of this is fine, but they're using words as if it's going to do anything.
They might as well form their hands into a gun shape and yell, "pew pew, Russia, pew pew!" It would be equally as helpful.
What alternative do you suggest for the UN?
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What alternative do you suggest for the UN?
Giant meteor?
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https://twitter.com/thebias_news/status/1501189879291514885?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501189879291514885%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fthebias_news%2Fstatus%2F1501189879291514885%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1501189879291514885257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es1_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16%2Ftopics%2F3274372%2F275
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The situation is ugly.
You have innocent people being slaughtered in Ukraine as well as their property and possessions.
Here inflation is running rampant and getting substantially worse by the day, with each move contributing even more to that issue.
And apparently we’re going to give planes to Poland which may or may not be a good move.
It’s above my pay grade, but I really don’t like where this is going.
I fear a global recession or even depression is possible if not likely, as well as an escalation which drags us into serious military action.
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I had been 50-50 on recession soon, I'm now probably 70-30 thinking we'll see a global recession, by the technical definition, before the year is out, and perhaps stagflation. Higher prices are eating up a lot of disposable income, so folks cut back on "luxuries".
I figure oil production will start to come back just as this hits and demand drops hard.
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Yep, they'll get right on that.
I'm sure that's the 1st thing Vlad thought about - "Let's get the rules straight"
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I fear a global recession or even depression is possible if not likely, as well as an escalation which drags us into serious military action.
This Admin has the chance to do something substantial,let's hope they shock us and do something worthwhile and I hope your post is inaccurate but fear that is not the case.
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Analysis: Vladimir Putin's clumsy military campaign in southern Ukraine makes little sense - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/07/europe/russia-southern-ukraine-military-analysis-intl/index.html)
I found this interesting (and yes, it's CNN, but I think they do have some good correspondents mostly overseas).
The guy is perplexed by what the Russians are doing, and he's there apparently.
Reading this brief yet worthwhile account (and yes, it’s CNN), Russia’s military is walking into its own ruins, even if most of their soldiers, Lord willing, return alive and well to their motherland. With so many (SO MANY!) Russian ground vehicles abandoned, inflamed, wrecked, and destroyed, it’s worth wondering whether their Army has the equipment to be an occupational border threat to most anyone else any time soon. As the 2003 Iraq invasion settled into its initial days, the Army wasted no time tripling their vehicle budget as carcasses of smoldering Humvees and Infantry Strykers quickly mounted along the dusty roadsides. Russia is neither doing this nor has the means too.
More importantly, one of our last hopes of stopping the Putin tyranny dead in its tracks is if the Russian public rises up against their government. My hopes for this happening aren’t high. Russians are historically too obedient and fearful toward their long lineage of tyrants. But it’s almost as if Putin invaded Ukraine without a strategy, as though the act of invading was the goal rather than any stated ensuing objective.
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https://twitter.com/thebias_news/status/1501189879291514885?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501189879291514885%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fthebias_news%2Fstatus%2F1501189879291514885%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1501189879291514885257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es1_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16%2Ftopics%2F3274372%2F275
hello $7 dollar gas, 10% inflation, and economic recession, baby!
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This Admin has the chance to do something substantial,let's hope they shock us and do something worthwhile and I hope your post is inaccurate but fear that is not the case.
this admin just took a massive step to insuring there will be higher inflation and the possibility of an economic recession or even depression. no one should have any faith in this administration.
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this admin just took a massive step to insuring there will be higher inflation and the possibility of an economic recession or even depression. no one should have any faith in this administration.
If you're talking about banning Russian oil imports, I don't blame this current administration specifically. I would ask for, and expect the same of, any administration, in the same situation.
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This thread is not about Saudi Arabia.
Stop it.
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this admin just took a massive step to insuring there will be higher inflation and the possibility of an economic recession or even depression. no one should have any faith in this administration.
It's not some massive step, it's a minor change from what already was reality.
And largely for political optics. They can't pretend to be buying Russian oil right now no matter the cost. And in fact, very few were buying anyway, and those who were were looking hard for immediate alternatives. Europe however is in a bind, they are way behind.
Companies were going to stop buying on their own, and many already had.
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It's not some massive step, it's a minor change from what already was reality.
And largely for political optics. They can't pretend to be buying Russian oil right now no matter the cost. And in fact, very few were buying anyway, and those who were were looking hard for immediate alternatives. Europe however is in a bind, they are way behind.
Companies were going to stop buying on their own, and many already had.
Yeah, so this is not exactly true. 8% of all US oil imports come from Russia. That's not an insignificant amount. And the US was still importing Russian oil, after Russia's invasion with Ukraine. It never stopped. Now it will. By action of executive action. And this will not be the only country which does this. The US is the leader of the West. If we do this, others will follow.
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It's not some massive step, it's a minor change from what already was reality.
And largely for political optics. They can't pretend to be buying Russian oil right now no matter the cost. And in fact, very few were buying anyway, and those who were were looking hard for immediate alternatives. Europe however is in a bind, they are way behind.
Companies were going to stop buying on their own, and many already had.
Yes. Our dependence on Russian oil is minimal. It's a logical and necessary step that theoretically should cause minimal damage to our own economy. Obviously there are a lot of variables.
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Yes. Our dependence on Russian oil is minimal. It's a logical and necessary step that theoretically should cause minimal damage to our own economy. Obviously there are a lot of variables.
nearly 10% of US oil imports is not exactly minimal. And it's not logical nor necessary. And if we do this, others will follow. If oil supply is artificially restricted prices will go up. For everyone. India and China cannot possibly make up the slack even if they buy at massive discounts.
If Netherlands, Germany, South Korea, Japan, Italy, and a host of US allies follow suite it could make things bad. And my guess is they will, seeing as most of these countries typically follow America's lead.
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This thread is not about Saudi Arabia.
Stop it.
Yeah, well no shit.
But to pretend the two things are not similar and related and to not point out the rampant hypocrisy is comical.
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Russian oil imports were going to near zero without anything else happening. It's a nonissue, political optics.
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nearly 10% of US oil imports is not exactly minimal. And it's not logical nor necessary.
And if we do this, others will follow. If oil supply is artificially restricted prices will go up. For everyone. India and China cannot possibly make up the slack even if they buy at massive discounts.
If Netherlands, Germany, South Korea, Japan, Italy, and a host of US allies follow suite it could make things bad. And my guess is they will, seeing as most of these countries typically follow America's lead.
The first portion is your opinion and I disagree.
The second part is likely, and I still consider it to be necessary. You can, and have, disagreed, which is fine. It's not about to change my mind but good luck to you.
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No doubt that a full-blown recession is certainly not out of the cards. The last time a lot of major economic indicators (housing prices, rents, oil prices, wheat prices, commodities, inflation) were this high was the summer of 2008, and we all know what happened that fall.
Building suburbia for the last 75 years means that Americans can't reduce VMTs much even if they wanted to. This admin should be pushing WFH WFH WFH WFH WFH, not get yer ass back to the office.
I've seen much hot air expelled about how the Beeb and RFE/VOA are back on the shortwave. My question: does anyone in Russia still own shortwave radios? It's easy to turn it back on, but damn hard to actually get that info through the new Iron Curtain.
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Yeah, well no shit.
But to pretend the two things are not similar and related and to not point out the rampant hypocrisy is comical.
Take it to Area 51 if you really feel the need to bloviate about it.
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Russian oil imports were going to near zero without anything else happening. It's a nonissue, political optics.
True, but that's largely because of already-existing sanctions so I consider them to be tightly related. And I'm okay with it. The outward signaling and the internal actions are now aligned.
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The Russian Deputy PM said that Russia may cut of natural gas to Europe if an oil ban happens. Not sure if this US only ban qualifies but if it does there will be hell to pay.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60656673 (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60656673)
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and here is where I say this administration needs to increase production up to previous levels to offset the lack of Russian oil
Now CD will say the President doesnt control oil production to which I reply sure he does. There are many things he could do to increase oil production but has chosen not to
now utee will post a message to stay on the subject of the Ukraine invasion and Mdot will respond its all tied together
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No doubt that a full-blown recession is certainly not out of the cards. The last time a lot of major economic indicators (housing prices, rents, oil prices, wheat prices, commodities, inflation) were this high was the summer of 2008, and we all know what happened that fall.
there could be a full-blown recession for sure, but housing prices were being artificially inflated back then because they were pumping out garbage loans, not verifying income or assets, basically anyone could get a loan and they were gaming the system. that hasn't been the driver of increasing home prices right now. housing prices at least in SoFL right now are going nuts because there's incredible surging demand (from people moving here) and literally no inventory. people can't get NINJA or NINA loans anymore.
the housing market imploding which triggered a massive chain reaction of credit default swaps tied to CDO's that insurers and investment banks couldn't cover is what triggered that last catastrophe.
We definitely could be heading to a full blown crash but I don't think it'll be because of housing prices or rent prices - those won't be the indicators imo.
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and here is where I say this administration needs to increase production up to previous levels to offset the lack of Russian oil
Now CD will say the President doesnt control oil production to which I reply sure he does. There are many things he could do to increase oil production but has chosen not to
now utee will post a message to stay on the subject of the Ukraine invasion and Mdot will respond its all tied together
You knew it was off topic when you posted it. Take it to the News thread or Area 51.
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and here is where I say this administration needs to increase production up to previous levels to offset the lack of Russian oil
Now CD will say the President doesnt control oil production to which I reply sure he does. There are many things he could do to increase oil production but has chosen not to
now utee will post a message to stay on the subject of the Ukraine invasion and Mdot will respond its all tied together
:043:
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The recession topic is interesting and I won't delete those posts, but if you want to continue discussing please take it to another thread.
(In other words, I'm deleting future posts on that topic)
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The Russian Deputy PM said that Russia may cut of natural gas to Europe if an oil ban happens. Not sure if this US only ban qualifies but if it does there will be hell to pay.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60656673 (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60656673)
just reading that article is scary. $300 a barrel oil would be a catastrophe. holy f**k.
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You knew it was off topic when you posted it. Take it to the News thread or Area 51.
I dont agree that our oil production is not tied to the subject of Ukraine and the invasion
Putin is counting on Russian oil being too important to be cut off from
It looks like we tried everything we knew to avoid cutting it off which included begging other countries for more oil but was to no avail. He has finally given in to bipartisan pressure and agreed cut off Russian oil with our gas price fast approaching rising to infinity.
These are just facts with no opinion injected
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Im really glad this is happening so everybody sees just what a prick Putin really is
One day this will be over but the aftertaste of Putins strongarm tactics with energy will bite him in the ass
No other country will ever again depend on Russia oil or natural gas
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I dont agree that our oil production is not tied to the subject of Ukraine and the invasion
Putin is counting on Russian oil being too important to be cut off from
It looks like we tried everything we knew to avoid cutting it off which included begging other countries for more oil but was to no avail. He has finally given in to bipartisan pressure and agreed cut off Russian oil with our gas price fast approaching rising infinity.
These are just facts with no opinion injected
We're cutting oil imports from Russia. As CD points out, that was actually already happening as a natural reaction to the sanctions and the unstable condition of the current geopolitical situation. But I'm fine with making an overt announcement to the effect, because I think the signaling is a strong portion of the overall tactic. Some other people are not fine with it and don't consider it logical or necessary with respect to Putin's invasion of Ukraine, and I'm AOK with people voicing their opinions in that direction as well.
And yes, of course the US will need to make up that oil production somehow. And if the HOW or WHERE is something you wish to discuss, do it elsewhere.
This is easy stuff and I'm not sure why some of you start acting like monkeys flinging feces at the wall every time you anticipate a partisan discussion in the making. It's easy to understand where such a discussion is going to lead, and it has nothing to do with this thread, so take it somewhere else.
Thank You For Your Support
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Im really glad this is happening so everybody sees just what a prick Putin really is
One day this will be over but the aftertaste of Putins strongarm tactics with energy will bite him in the ass
No other country will ever again depend on Russia oil or natural gas
I think the world could learn a lot of important lessons as a result of dickface Putin's murder of a neighboring country.
Perhaps we'll actually pay attention this time. I'm hopeful for that.
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https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1501231214312763405?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501232573233700864%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAFP%2Fstatus%2F1501232573233700864%3Fs%3D2026t%3Dd3Bb8BV7kN5p9oTPJlWCzw
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Phase out by the end of the year which is 10 months away is crap and probably has Putin rolling with laughter
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https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1501231214312763405?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501232573233700864%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAFP%2Fstatus%2F1501232573233700864%3Fs%3D2026t%3Dd3Bb8BV7kN5p9oTPJlWCzw
a) holy shit that's a lot of casualties in just two weeks if true. like whoa.
b) of course America's poodle will be doing this, surprised they are even taking until the end of the year. they aren't a major buyer of Russian oil- but if all the EU countries who are like Germany, Netherlands, Italy and South Korea/Japan follow - oil going to shoot past $200 barrel in a flash.
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4,000 Russian casualties in 2 weeks is huge
in 10 years the Russians lost 15,000 in Afghanistan
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It's an estimate but is conservative compared to the numbers Ukraine is throwing out there (11,000 or more), so seems somewhat believable? Who knows, really.
And if enough countries plan to slowly "phase out" Russian energy, I think Putin might give them an unwelcome surprise by just doing it for them, and soon. There are going to be almost innumerable negative externalities globally, as a result of dickface Putin's invasion.
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https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1501239798446632960?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501239798446632960%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fiaponomarenko%2Fstatus%2F1501239798446632960%3Fs%3D21
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Does insurance cover this?
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1501160341778190336?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501160341778190336%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FUAWeapons%2Fstatus%2F1501160341778190336
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Now it's getting serious.
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1501257714869186563?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501257714869186563%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnytimes%2Fstatus%2F1501257714869186563%3Fs%3D2026t%3Dd3Bb8BV7kN5p9oTPJlWCzw
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I almost feel like the US should invade a country just to get McDonalds to pull out of the US.
I bet diabetes and obesity would decrease a little bit.
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I almost feel like the US should invade a country just to get McDonalds to pull out of the US.
I bet diabetes and obesity would decrease a little bit.
I was kind of thinking the same thing. We should keep every McDonald's open and serving up Russians all of that junk food. Maybe even double-down by opening a few thousand new Taco Bell locations while we're at it.
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4,000 more Russian troops die...of diarrhea.
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4,000 more Russian troops die...of diarrhea.
😂😂😂
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Now it's getting serious.
No more Happy Meals or Shamrock Shakes for them.If that's not a deterrent I don't know what is - Rasputin's Revenge
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It's an estimate but is conservative compared to the numbers Ukraine is throwing out there (11,000 or more), so seems somewhat believable? Who knows, really.
And if enough countries plan to slowly "phase out" Russian energy, I think Putin might give them an unwelcome surprise by just doing it for them, and soon. There are going to be almost innumerable negative externalities globally, as a result of dickface Putin's invasion.
Ukraine's numbers might well be exaggerated, but what is giving me pause to think they're somewhat accurate is that the Kremlin isn't publicly disputing the count.
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Ukraine's numbers might well be exaggerated, but what is giving me pause to think they're somewhat accurate is that the Kremlin isn't publicly disputing the count.
One thing at a time they're negotiating with McDonalds 1st
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No more Happy Meals or Shamrock Shakes for them.If that's not a deterrent I don't know what is - Rasputin's Revenge
This randomly put the image in my head of the differently-shaped McNuggets fitting together in a map of the former Soviet eastern bloc countries, with Putin eating each one he takes over.......
I need therapy.
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Off Season's are like that,March Madness is on deck
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This randomly put the image in my head of the differently-shaped McNuggets fitting together in a map of the former Soviet eastern bloc countries, with Putin eating each one he takes over.......
I need therapy.
your best post this year!
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your best post this year!
now Fearless I held my fire here
you need to learn to resist the low hanging fruit
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How polite
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https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1501381065851691016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501381065851691016%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1501381065851691016
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I can just imagine whats going on in that Nuclear Power plant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEkOT3IngMQ
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Works for me 'bout half the time...
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I can just imagine whats going on in that Nuclear Power plant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEkOT3IngMQ
probably the best of Michael Bay's entire collection of god awful over the top ridiculous movies. I enjoyed it.
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Yeah, so not good sign at all for prospects of brining down oil prices. Biden might be the least respected President we've had in some time- Saudis speak to Putin, but refuse to even talk with Biden. Got dayyyum.
https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1501332167401500674?s=20&t=h3BhYN9ovAr8L5J6wLjzTg
Mitch McConnell is such a ghoulish creature. My god. Dude wants to add another $40 billion to US defense budget just because Russia invaded Ukraine. As if the $778 billion US was spending on defense already wasn't enough. Need that extra $40 billion! Now he wants to send a $14 billion aid package to Ukraine. Guy cries about the deficit and spending a penny- but the minute there's an excuse to spend on war he's all gung-ho and money falls from the skies.
https://www.axios.com/mcconnell-ukraine-aid-package-bb5097d6-1748-46c2-b91a-5e4c6fab2582.html
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MDot's favorite actor is in the news...
https://twitter.com/TheRickyDavila/status/1501360897100451841?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501360897100451841%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FTheRickyDavila%2Fstatus%2F1501360897100451841
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MDot's favorite actor is in the news...
https://twitter.com/TheRickyDavila/status/1501360897100451841?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501360897100451841%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FTheRickyDavila%2Fstatus%2F1501360897100451841
oh he's a phenomenal actor, don't get me wrong. he's in many of my favorite movies and he's really just a fantastic actor. just a bit of a talking out of both sides of your mouth virtue signaling doucher if you ask me.
just how much money do you have to have to be able to just donate $10 million on a whim lol. he's got to be worth $400-500 million, easy. he's been making $25 million or more per movie since after Titanic made him the biggest movie star on planet earth. That was 25 years ago. he's been in a lot of movies since then.
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Biden might be the least respected President we've had in some time- Saudis speak to Putin, but refuse to even talk with Biden. Got dayyyum.
Can you blame them - even them. It would be like talking Latin to an Ebola Chimp
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oh he's a phenomenal actor, don't get me wrong. he's in many of my favorite movies and he's really just a fantastic actor. just a bit of a talking out of both sides of your mouth virtue signaling doucher if you ask me.
just how much money do you have to have to be able to just donate $10 million on a whim lol. he's got to be worth $400-500 million, easy. he's been making $25 million or more per movie since after Titanic made him the biggest movie star on planet earth. That was 25 years ago. he's been in a lot of movies since then.
Just a coincidence I'm sure someone let slip that he happens to be helping the popular cause of the moment.He's probably all upset and embarrassed by that
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I mentioned a few days back about that long caravan being so prominent in the news a week ago is now, well, not.
I think it's an example of how the media report a thing and gin it up into a major story when often it's just not. A week later ... whoosh.
We all see this routinely of course and I'm sure take a lot of the gin with a grain of lime juice.
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Yeah, so this is not exactly true. 8% of all US oil imports come from Russia. That's not an insignificant amount. And the US was still importing Russian oil, after Russia's invasion with Ukraine. It never stopped. Now it will. By action of executive action. And this will not be the only country which does this. The US is the leader of the West. If we do this, others will follow.
It is too inevitable that a thread started to discuss an ongoing conflict devolves into rising gas prices. Not to mention how surging wheat prices will compound the early stages of famines unfolding in South Sudan, Yemen, and Afghanistan.
“Millions of the world’s poorest people could face the threat of starvation as Russia’s war in Ukraine hampers wheat supplies and causes prices to rocket, humanitarian agencies are warning.
Countries in the Middle East and North Africa including Lebanon, Yemen, Syria and Tunisia are heavily dependent on grain from Ukraine, which is known as the “breadbasket of Europe” and accounts for about 10 per cent of global supplies.
The number of people facing potential starvation worldwide has already risen from 80 million to 276 million prior to the war. Sanctions-hit Russia also provides about 30 per cent of the world’s wheat.
It comes at a time when many countries are already facing growing food insecurity due to the Covid-19 pandemic’s impact on supply chains, conflict and climate change, which is reversing years of development gains.”
https://twitter.com/theipaper/status/1501272682662227968
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(https://i.imgur.com/auciL3c.png)
This may be roughly accurate, from the NYT, I don't see anything shocking there. Ukraine needs to retain the West around Lviv as much as possible for supplies from the West.
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Nope. Syria, Yemen, and Afghanistan are not the topics of this thread.
You know better.
Do better. Be better.
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@CatsbyAZ (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1532)
Potential recession and grain shortages are good topics. In some cases they're related to Russia's war in Ukraine, but they're better topics for another thread. They just open the door to too much other non-related stuff and there are some posters here who struggle mightily with staying on topic.
I won't delete your post but anyone that would like to pursue it further, please do it elsewhere.
There's already a global economics discussion occurring on the News thread, this conversation would fit in well over there.
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https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1501582605652742148?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501582605652742148%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FWSJ%2Fstatus%2F1501582605652742148%3Fs%3D2026t%3DEJgKvVdbCgMqBlLTiL2-QA
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utee I want you to note longhorn didnt participate in any of that discussion
Im a big boy now
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utee I want you to note longhorn didnt participate in any of that discussion
Im a big boy now
:043:
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https://twitter.com/Newsweek/status/1501613005049577473?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501613005049577473%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FNewsweek%2Fstatus%2F1501613005049577473%3Fs%3D2026t%3DEJgKvVdbCgMqBlLTiL2-QA
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https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1501627770295705600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501627770295705600%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1501627770295705600%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1501627770295705600257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es1_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16
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Indeed.
https://twitter.com/steven_pifer/status/1501653438261653504?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501653438261653504%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fsteven_pifer%2Fstatus%2F1501653438261653504
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US putting patriot missile systems in Poland. That probably won't escalate tensions. Don't like where this is heading....at all.
US and Poland playing hot potato over Poland's Mig-29 aircraft. US publicly says go ahead Poland, give those fighter jets to Ukraine. Poland responds publicly saying they'll give the fighter jets to US and that US can fly them into Ukraine. US then says no we can't do that, we can't take that risk. Poland says- but you wanted us to? Pretty shrewd move by Poland there.
https://twitter.com/Brick_Suit/status/1501637669108940801?s=20&t=YUYioG0TkdVCAGss6pV9aQ
https://twitter.com/Brick_Suit/status/1501655709821202433?s=20&t=YUYioG0TkdVCAGss6pV9aQ
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Congressman Thomas Massie bringing this to light: so neo-con royalty and current Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland- who worked for both the Bush II and Obama administrations- and was the key US diplomat in Ukraine under Obama and a top player in plotting and executing the US-backed coup of a democratically elected gov't in Ukraine in 2014- in which leaked phone conversations of her talking to another US diplomat showed she literally hand-picked the next Ukrainian government- just testifies under oath that Ukraine has "biological research facilities" and is concerned Russia will get their hands on them. If they are just benign "biological research facilities" - then what's the worry?
https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1501637637668548613?s=20&t=6y8ssyYgNrK-3b0TLqfAsw
And here's Nuland completely odd and strange exchange with Little Marco Rubio who still looks like he's about 13 years old and probably just as stupid as your average 13 year old. Nuland never flatly denies anything and then admits to Ukraine "biological research facilities". It's a pretty shocking admission and exchange that I didn't think Rubio was ready for.
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1501313109520175104?s=20&t=YUYioG0TkdVCAGss6pV9aQ
https://greenwald.substack.com/p/victoria-nuland-ukraine-has-biological?s=w (https://greenwald.substack.com/p/victoria-nuland-ukraine-has-biological?s=w)
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Most universities have "biological research facilities", probably all of them. I imagine Ukraine has universities. Hospitals often do as well.
There is a large one not far from where I currently reside.
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Most universities have "biological research facilities", probably all of them. I imagine Ukraine has universities. Hospitals often do as well.
There is a large one not far from where I currently reside.
yeah, cool.
why not flatly deny the question pound on the desk and say ABSOLUTELY NOT, instead of clearly avoiding it in bullshit political way and say "ah uhm, they have ah uhm biological research facilities".
And if they are just benign "biological research facilities" - then what is the hoopla and hysteria and worry and concern over Russia getting their hands on them? And why are they working with Ukraine to prevent "research materials" from falling into the hands of Russian forces?
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Biological research materials would fairly often include biological agents which are dangerous. The same would be true for chemical research materials, and labs.
In the hands of less than experts, they'd be more dangerous for the person trying to use them than anyone else.
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Biological research materials would fairly often include biological agents which are dangerous. The same would be true for chemical research materials, and labs.
In the hands of less than experts, they'd be more dangerous for the person trying to use them than anyone else.
right. and a couple of days ago it was a debunked conspiracy theory that Ukraine had any such bio labs funded by US that contained any such dangerous biological agents. well, turns out that wasn't exactly true.
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Her area is labeled as "Political Affairs" and she has little to no academic background in anything biological. I'm not sure she'd be the person I'd ask about a technical question.
She earned a Bachelor of Arts degree from Brown University (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_University) in 1983, where she studied Russian literature, political science, and history.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland#cite_note-11)
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Her area is labeled as "Political Affairs" and she has little to no academic background in anything biological. I'm not sure she'd be the person I'd ask about a technical question.
She earned a Bachelor of Arts degree from Brown University (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_University) in 1983, where she studied Russian literature, political science, and history.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland#cite_note-11)
I don't know. just seems really odd to me.
not sure if you know who she is, but she has wielded tremendous power in Ukraine for the last 8 years. if there's anything going on in Ukraine, she'd know about it. she is one of the highest ranking officials in the US gov't and has been for decades and has been hired by multiple administrations, both republican and democrat. She's seen the most classified intel, she's been in war rooms, I think she knows what a biological or chemical weapons are. you actually need to watch the exchange. she was asked point blank “Does Ukraine have chemical or biological weapons?” She never answered that question directly. She avoided it and said uh ahem uh Ukraine has biological research labs.
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Perhaps that's not such an easy question to answer.
For a person with overall knowledge, they may know there's biological research facilities with dangerous shit in them and while nothing specifically is known to be weaponized, maybe she also knows that it's located in a military-adjacent location and may not know exactly who is behind which experiments. The actual scientists are earnest and innocent, but they could be unwittingly doing research that could be weaponized, there's no way of knowing that, etc etc etc.
You can't say yes, because there are no overt examples.
You can't say no, because the ingredients for the recipe for such weapons are all circling each other.
Grey exists, ya know?
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https://twitter.com/kerrya11en/status/1501480899237588992?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501480899237588992%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fkerrya11en%2Fstatus%2F1501480899237588992
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I know a major challenge in using chemicals as weapons is dispersal and control. You need an explosion that will disperse the agent without destroying the agent. And of course you need safeguards to prevent premature dispersal. The agents themselves are well known and not that hard to manufacture.
I imagine biological weapons have the same challenges. It makes no sense to me that Ukraine would be spending money on biological warfare.
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I think they'd buy a jet first......:57:
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yeah, so this is truly terrifying. war simulations done in 2019. One billion dead.
https://thefederalist.com/2022/03/04/nato-involvement-in-ukraine-could-spark-nuclear-genocide-heres-how-it-could-happen/
here's another one...90 million dead within the first few hours.
https://sea.mashable.com/life/19543/simulation-predicts-90-million-people-will-die-within-hours-if-nuclear-war-breaks-out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jy3JU-ORpo
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In the immortal words of Sting, I hope the Russians love their children too.
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yeah, so this is truly terrifying. war simulations done in 2019. One billion dead.
https://thefederalist.com/2022/03/04/nato-involvement-in-ukraine-could-spark-nuclear-genocide-heres-how-it-could-happen/
here's another one...90 million dead within the first few hours.
https://sea.mashable.com/life/19543/simulation-predicts-90-million-people-will-die-within-hours-if-nuclear-war-breaks-out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jy3JU-ORpo
This is what has me worried. It looks at the exact situation the world is currently in, and concludes that there is no scenario where nuclear exchange is avoided- amongst 100 scenarios.
The economic languishing of Russia, us and most of the rest of world- is getting meaningfully worse withe each passing day, and I fear will be the spark that lights the fuse.
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Yeah, I already saw that movie...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s93KC4AGKnY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s93KC4AGKnY)
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My kids watched that a few years ago-- had no idea why Ferris Bueller was trying to destroy the world.
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My kids watched that a few years ago-- had no idea why Ferris Bueller was trying to destroy the world.
"Flush the bombers and take us to defcon 3"
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https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-confirms-vaccum-bombs-thermobaric-ukraine-uk
https://www.foxnews.com/world/china-us-biolabs-ukraine-russia
The sides are lining up.
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https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-confirms-vaccum-bombs-thermobaric-ukraine-uk
https://www.foxnews.com/world/china-us-biolabs-ukraine-russia
The sides are lining up.
China accusing the US of biological monkey business is ballsy
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https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-confirms-vaccum-bombs-thermobaric-ukraine-uk
https://www.foxnews.com/world/china-us-biolabs-ukraine-russia
The sides are lining up.
Please, PLEASE take in other new sources. If only for variety's sake.
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Please, PLEASE take in other new sources. If only for variety's sake.
піти ебать себе
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OH,jeeze talkin' in tongues the end times are near!!! Not really Cleveland hasn't won the Series Yet
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In the immortal words of Sting, I hope the Russians love their children too.
Sure they do but Putin doesn't appear to - immediate opening for an Agent Provocatuer
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Interesting read here.
Why Nixon's Prediction About Putin and Ukraine Matters | Opinion (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-nixon-s-prediction-about-putin-and-ukraine-matters-opinion/ar-AAUSCVM?ocid=msedgntp)
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And just a reminder... this is not a Watergate thread.
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badgerfan is not a crook
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Deep Throat knew of the plot to destroy Maryland
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Hmmm now it's not just one lab, but a plot between USA and Ukraine involving an entire network of labs. Oh yeah, with bats and COVID-19 too. And, apparently, Georgia as well. For, you know, reasons...
Sounds super legit to me...
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501927002969837568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501927002969837568%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fvisegrad24%2Fstatus%2F1501927002969837568%3Fs%3D21
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what bothers me about the lab story isnt the fact that one exists but somebody figured we needed 24 of them
man that a lot for just innocent bio study
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Georgia does have one of the last samples of small pox in storage, and an impressively large disease control operation.
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Georgia also has the national championship winning football team. Obviously a big target for Moscow, under the circumstances.
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Georgia also has the national championship winning football team. Obviously a big target for Moscow, under the circumstances.
They'll give up Tom Crean without raising a weapon though
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Anyone looking for a vacation home in Crimea? Sounds like you can get one on the cheap right now.
https://twitter.com/TsybulskaLiubov/status/1501862686396661764?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501862686396661764%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FTsybulskaLiubov%2Fstatus%2F1501862686396661764%3Fcxt%3DHHwWiICywf6J2NcpAAAA
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Could do a lot worse. Even MDot might not describe this place as a shithole.
(https://i.imgur.com/eLNUigs.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/o2ne6Fz.png)
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https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1501955491467075585?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501955491467075585%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FJenGriffinFNC%2Fstatus%2F1501955491467075585%3Fs%3D2026t%3DR1A7pCnHm9oYZ7mp-eUZyA
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Could do a lot worse. Even MDot might not describe this place as a shithole.
(https://i.imgur.com/eLNUigs.png)
Eh. Where are the South American women?
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Eh. Where are the South American women?
Probably not many there, it's true. Gotta settle for Russian and Ukrainian gals. Which I'm totally AOK with...
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https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1501991946851655684?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501991946851655684%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FLiveuamap%2Fstatus%2F1501991946851655684
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https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1501991946851655684?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501991946851655684%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FLiveuamap%2Fstatus%2F1501991946851655684
the Ukrainians are a cocky bunch
got to love their spirit
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so now North Korea has chosen this time to test fire its missiles
smart move
course they wouldnt make a move without approval from China which means Russia knew about it ahead of time
everybody knew but the good ol USA
I dont understand the appeal of surprising us with a missile launch
seems kind like (pardon the pun) playing Russian Roulette
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Georgia also has the national championship winning football team. Obviously a big target for Moscow, under the circumstances.
There'd be no larger hornet's nest stirred up than if a foreign military bombed the college football HOF in Atlanta. If the Coca-Cola museum and/or first Chik-fil-A were damaged as well, hooooo boy. Pickup trucks would be taking down tanks and the US Army could take a vacation.
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Air it on Pay per View and make a fortune.
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Operation: Hold my Beer
-
Operation: Hold my Beer
Hey y'all, watch this!
-
Interesting combat footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gezu6A9zcLU
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https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1502073042469588996?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502073042469588996%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fvisegrad24%2Fstatus%2F1502073042469588996%3Fs%3D21
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😂
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Oh man, that's awesome.
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There'd be no larger hornet's nest stirred up than if a foreign military bombed the college football HOF in Atlanta. If the Coca-Cola museum and/or first Chik-fil-A were damaged as well, hooooo boy. Pickup trucks would be taking down tanks and the US Army could take a vacation.
(https://i.imgur.com/92qjWZF.png)
WOLVERINES
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Well the drink is also known as a Caucasian, and we know Jackie Treehorn makes a hell of one...
So I think we can do without the White Russian name. It's not the preferred nomenclature, Dude... It's Caucasian.
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Nothing is fuc*ed here, nothing is fu--they're a bunch of fuc*ing amateurs!!!!
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https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1502131918212583426?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502131918212583426%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fjoncoopertweets%2Fstatus%2F1502131918212583426%3Fs%3D21
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A little news on CD's favorite convoy:
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1502118625624440855?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502118625624440855%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fkyivindependent%2Fstatus%2F1502118625624440855%3Fs%3D21
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For anyone interested in the economic impact of current situation:
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Not unexpected. Putin had been moving to nationalize many commercial ventures well before this invasion.
Unless/until Russia becomes a true democracy, Western businesses really have no choice but to stay away.
And after coming so far in the last 30 years, I don't think anyone would have predicted a return to a Soviet-style command economy, and especially not that it would happen almost overnight, but here we are...
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1502092455788826657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502092455788826657%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1502092455788826657%3Fs%3D2026t%3DRfdmjHLNBmapvYzjQWpf2A
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Russia has set itself back many decades with all of this mess. It's astounding really, I don't see how Putin can survive, even knowing he's KGB.
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Russia has set itself back many decades with all of this mess. It's astounding really, I don't see how Putin can survive, even knowing he's KGB.
As I said long above, Russia is now North Korea.
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Russia has set itself back many decades with all of this mess. It's astounding really, I don't see how Putin can survive, even knowing he's KGB.
Maybe so, but they are also setting the fragile geopolitical world back, and the global economy in a way such that catastrophic and unpredictable behavior is more and more likely.
see my attachment above from Moodys analytics.
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Russia has set itself back many decades with all of this mess. It's astounding really, I don't see how Putin can survive, even knowing he's KGB.
There's no way the West will remove sanctions while Putin is still alive/in-office.
He has ended his career and most likely his life with this crazy decision.
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What to watch today: Futures jump on hopes of progress in Russia-Ukraine talks (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/11/what-to-watch-today-futures-jump-on-hopes-of-progress-in-russia-ukraine-talks.html)
Shortly before 6:30 a.m. ET, Reuters sent a brief bulletin quoting Russian President Vladimir Putin (https://www.cnbc.com/vladimir-putin/) saying there are “certain positive developments” in the talks. As investors try to gauge the veracity (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/11/russia-ukraine-live-updates.html) of Putin’s reported comments, Russia widened its military offensive (https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-forests-war-crimes-be25927bc5eef0f90cf466a86fcc6e3f) in Ukraine on Friday. (CNBC & AP)
New satellite images (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/11/ukraine-satellite-imagery-shows-russian-convoy-regrouping-near-kyiv.html) appear to show that a large Russian convoy approaching Kyiv has been redeployed to towns and forests outside the city, potentially signaling a renewed push to bear down on the Ukrainian capital. (CNBC)
As of Thursday’s lower close (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/09/stock-market-futures-open-to-close-news.html), the Dow Jones Industrial Average (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/.DJI), the S&P 500 (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/.SPX) and the Nasdaq (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/.IXIC) were all heading for another losing week. West Texas Intermediate crude (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/@CL.1), the American oil benchmark, was tracking to snap a two-week winning streak. (CNBC & AP)
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@CatsbyAZ (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1532)
Potential recession and grain shortages are good topics. In some cases they're related to Russia's war in Ukraine, but they're better topics for another thread. They just open the door to too much other non-related stuff and there are some posters here who struggle mightily with staying on topic.
I won't delete your post but anyone that would like to pursue it further, please do it elsewhere.
There's already a global economics discussion occurring on the News thread, this conversation would fit in well over there.
No worries. Here’s two threads over on Area 51 discussing famines and wheat:
https://www.cfb51.com/area-51/high-oil-prices-and-war-in-ukraine-is-only-the-beginning-of-sorrows/
https://www.cfb51.com/area-51/afghanistan-on-brink-of-mass-starvation/14/
Going back to the war, below is linked a knowledgeable video analysis of Russia’s frustrated logistics across Ukraine:
“…behind the scenes, what made this massive domestic mobilization of troops, weapons, and supplies possible was Russia’s vast rail network. This rail network’s extent, earning its status as third largest in the world, is a byproduct of the country’s size, sparsity, and the suspect nature of its road network. Meanwhile, the degree of state control, with the government owning some 20,000 of the country’s 21,000 locomotives, is a legacy of the Soviet era. This control and extensiveness combined means that Russia’s military is able to rely heavily on the rail network…Trains set the stage.”
“However, despite Russia’s well-planned war infrastructure constructed around Ukraine, things inside the warzone were seemingly going less to plan…Kyiv was the grand prize for the invading force, and yet they only made it to the city’s suburbs…they met fierce resistance and made little progress – the night that many feared would mark the capital’s fall into but a night.”
“Russian tanks were running out of fuel and left abandoned…the invading troops were seen looting stores for food, potentially due to a lack of their own…across the board, as they approached the urban areas that could only be taken with the most tactful coordination, the Russian military was looking disorganized and disconnected.”
“The Ukrainian defense included a recognition of what the Russian offense seemingly missed: the importance of logistics...Ukraine went for Russia’s logistics. On social-media platforms adapted to organize the country’s guerilla-style defense, posts circulated stressing the value of destroying fuel trucks. Of course, if you stop the fuel trucks, you stop the tanks, and unlike tanks, fuel trucks are typically unarmored and can be destroyed with cheap, accessible bullets or Molotov cocktails. When the Russians started disguising their fuel trucks to look like more traditional transport trucks, posts and messages quickly followed making the updated target profile clear.”
“However, this domestic advantage, this reliance on the rails, represents an Achilles heel when conflicts take place beyond their borders. When war stretches past their furthest railyards, Russian military logistics capabilities are, at best, mediocre. In the case of this invasion, the primary advanced railyards being used are in Belarus and Russia itself, so for any further supply lines, especially any stretching into Ukraine, Russia had to resort to trucks. And simply put: Russia doesn’t have enough trucks.”
“A highly-active conflict reliant on rocket fire, which accurately describes this war, is even more resource-intensive on the logistics support forces as each individual rocket requires a dedicated truck for transport to the launcher. With the frequency of artillery fire in the early days of the invasion, a large chunk of Russia’s material-technical support brigade’s capability was certainly tied up in supplying ammunition to launch-sites.”
“Analysis suggests that when invading, Russia’s forces can operate largely self-sufficiently, without logistics support, for about three to five days. So, when the conflict did not conclude within that timeframe, the Russians found themselves scrambling to regroup and resupply.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4wRdoWpw0w
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As I said long above, Russia is now North Korea.
no, they aren't. they have way more deliverable nuclear weapons and way more natural resources than North Korea.
NK has less than 50 nukes. Russia has 6,000+. Does NK even have legit provable ICBMs? I know they've tested some, but do they actually have the capability to use them like Russia?
Tension and conflict with Russia is way more dangerous than tension/conflict with NK.
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Russia has set itself back many decades with all of this mess. It's astounding really, I don't see how Putin can survive, even knowing he's KGB.
Yeah, except for the fact that he's more popular in Russia right now than he was pre-invasion.
We view things a little bit differently here than the people in Russia view things.
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There's no way the West will remove sanctions while Putin is still alive/in-office.
He has ended his career and most likely his life with this crazy decision.
I don't think they'll keep the sanctions forever. If an end to the war is negotiated, my guess is those sanctions will be removed.
He's actually more popular now in Russia than he was before the invasion. He's survived many assasination attempts. My guess here is he's got to be more paranoid than ever right now and his security is heightened to level 11 out of 10.
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https://duckduckgo.com/?q=you+tube+sean+connery+%22+what+are+you+prepared+to+do&t=iphone&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D9ALcqt6GMhM
Ultimately- I am concerned it may come down to this with Ras-Putin
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Not unexpected. Putin had been moving to nationalize many commercial ventures well before this invasion.
Unless/until Russia becomes a true democracy, Western businesses really have no choice but to stay away.
And after coming so far in the last 30 years, I don't think anyone would have predicted a return to a Soviet-style command economy, and especially not that it would happen almost overnight, but here we are...
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1502092455788826657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502092455788826657%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1502092455788826657%3Fs%3D2026t%3DRfdmjHLNBmapvYzjQWpf2A
Russia really came very far in the last 15-20 years, all under Putin. After the fall of USSR in 1991 and all through the Yeltsin years, Russia was an unmitigated disaster on the brink of being a failed state.
Probably the only reason that Putin had been able to get a stranglehold death grip on power in Russia- is because he did a lot better job than his mostly drunk and mostly stooge of the Clinton administration predecessor in turning things around and stabilizing a country that was on the brink of collapse.
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no, they aren't. they have way more deliverable nuclear weapons and way more natural resources than North Korea.
NK has less than 50 nukes. Russia has 6,000+. Does NK even have legit provable ICBMs? I know they've tested some, but do they actually have the capability to use them like Russia?
Tension and conflict with Russia is way more dangerous than tension/conflict with NK.
I meant from the standpoint of being a pariah.
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Russia is getting hammered economically, and the regular people feel it, no matter the propaganda they get served. They know.
Sanctions won't come off until Russia pulls back from ALL of Ukraine, they might get some cheating, and maybe some of the worst would come off in steps. But even if they take Ukraine, they lost, badly, both a lot of miliary gear, respect, money, economically, the whole smear.
Even the Green groups in Germany will stop taking their money, maybe.
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Russia is getting hammered economically, and the regular people feel it, no matter the propaganda they get served. They know.
Sanctions won't come off until Russia pulls back from ALL of Ukraine, they might get some cheating, and maybe some of the worst would come off in steps. But even if they take Ukraine, they lost, badly, both a lot of miliary gear, respect, money, economically, the whole smear.
Even the Green groups in Germany will stop taking their money, maybe.
Yes. And so is the rest of the world. You may not be seeing it yet. You will.
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Oh, I see it, I've been selling the past two weeks.
Our cruise itinerary is reset, they dropped Helsinki as well as St. Pete and are refunding 20%. We get Kiel, another night in Stockholm, and a visit to Visby, Sweden, which looks interesting. I was looking forward to Finland. They also added Gdansk.
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Russia is getting hammered economically, and the regular people feel it, no matter the propaganda they get served. They know.
Sanctions won't come off until Russia pulls back from ALL of Ukraine, they might get some cheating, and maybe some of the worst would come off in steps. But even if they take Ukraine, they lost, badly, both a lot of miliary gear, respect, money, economically, the whole smear.
Even the Green groups in Germany will stop taking their money, maybe.
not sure that's the case. people getting crushed by sanctions typically blame the country crushing them by sanctions and look to dear leader for survival.
Russia has been screaming for 15+ years this was a red-line. Nobody ever listed. The people in Russia view Ukraine very differently than the people in the US. They view Ukraine as existential- it's a matter of life and death for them. Ukraine means literally nothing to US. Means everything to Russia.
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For anyone interested in the economic impact of current situation:
yeah, so that's bad. and 100% proof as to why sanctions this draconian, kicking the entire country off Swift and banning Russian oil from US were a god awful idea.
sanction the oligarchs, seize all their property and toys in the west. have at it. don't disrupt global energy markets or crush regular people with sanctions.
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yeah, so that's bad. and 100% proof as to why sanctions this draconian, kicking the entire country off Swift and banning Russian oil from US were a god awful idea.
sanction the oligarchs, seize all their property and toys in the west. have at it. don't disrupt global energy markets or crush regular people with sanctions.
Thanks for actually looking at it. And Zande is probably overly optimistic about the US impact.
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Thanks for actually looking at it. And Zande is probably overly optimistic about the US impact.
Yeah, one quarter of negative GDP, and only in the most pessimistic scenario...
I feel that the direct impact of the Russia situation may not be, on its own, enough to cause a US recession. But it certainly seems like the US economy is balancing on the head of a pin right now, particularly with interest rates so low in the face of inflationary pressures...
Interest rates go up; cost of borrowing [and servicing debt] goes up, housing market crashes, and brings a hell of a lot more down with it.
I worry the Russia situation, which might not be enough on its own to hurt us, pushes us over the tipping point.
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This notion Russia is justified in invading Ukraine is, to me, rather fantastical. The implication Russians will blame the US is the same. They know what's happened.
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This notion Russia is justified in invading Ukraine is, to me, rather fantastical. The implication Russians will blame the US is the same. They know what's happened.
I don't think Mdot is saying they're justified.
As I said earlier in this thread defending someone on the other side...
Explaining the root causes why an action occurred doesn't mean that you condone that action as moral or justified.
Mdot is saying that given what the West was doing, Russia invading Ukraine was predictable, not that it was justified.
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He's CONSTANTLY blaming US actions, CONSTANTLY, and to me, that is justification, or a rather simplistic and incorrect effort to say "Well, Russia was worried about Ukraine, so they invaded." I can't take it any other way. I might as well listen to a Putin SPOX.
Ukraine was zero threat to Russia, zero.
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The United States has a pretty big track record of getting its hands on everything and threatening military action if we don't get our way. This is going to affect how other countries act.
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What the US does previously is immaterial to any justification of this invasion. This was wrong, and I'm delighted we're hammering the Russian economy.
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He's CONSTANTLY blaming US actions, CONSTANTLY, and to me, that is justification, or a rather simplistic and incorrect effort to say "Well, Russia was worried about Ukraine, so they invaded." I can't take it any other way. I might as well listen to a Putin SPOX.
Ukraine was zero threat to Russia, zero.
I agree. To me, this is all about Putin convincing himself that Ukraine was going to join the EU, and also NATO.
I'm not convinced that was going to happen - particularly the latter part.
And, why would the EU want another financial liability, to go along with places like Greece and the Eastern bloc countries? I don't get the logic here. I saw today that the president of Lithuania wants EU membership for Ukraine. What's not clear is if he discussed it with his peers in Brussels.
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The United States has a pretty big track record of getting its hands on everything and threatening military action if we don't get our way. This is going to affect how other countries act.
Russia has a pretty big track record of invading and murdering its neighboring countries, and that's got a whole lot more to do with their war of aggression in Ukraine than anything else.
The proof is in the pudding, and Ukraine has been proven 100% correct in their desperate desire to join NATO and the EU and any other body they feel might offer some measure of protection against Russia's murderous ways.
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Mainly I'm tired of reading the same old thing over and over. Putin is getting old and I think he wants to resurrect the USSR to the extent possible. Ukraine wasn't anywhere near to joining NATO. It's a complete bit of propagandistic twaddle, worth of Goebbels.
Poland really did attack Germany first in 1939, ya know?
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The United States has a pretty big track record of getting its hands on everything and threatening military action if we don't get our way. This is going to affect how other countries act.
Tie that to the Ukraine invasion
Hitler had all kinds of "justified" reasons to attack Poland which also poised no threat to Germany at all
Sanctions need to get the attention of the common citizens in order to be affective
Its better then the alternative which would be a downer for the common citizen
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I agree. To me, this is all about Putin convincing himself that Ukraine was going to join the EU, and also NATO.
I'm not convinced that was going to happen - particularly the latter part.
Whether it was likely to happen or not, Russia's current slaughter of Ukrainians is all the proof necessary to show that Ukraine was correct and justified in their desire to attempt to get some additional protection from their murderous neighbor.
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Yeah, one quarter of negative GDP, and only in the most pessimistic scenario...
I feel that the direct impact of the Russia situation may not be, on its own, enough to cause a US recession. But it certainly seems like the US economy is balancing on the head of a pin right now, particularly with interest rates so low in the face of inflationary pressures...
Interest rates go up; cost of borrowing [and servicing debt] goes up, housing market crashes, and brings a hell of a lot more down with it.
I worry the Russia situation, which might not be enough on its own to hurt us, pushes us over the tipping point.
Exactly. And the fed has no choice - as we approach double digit inflation, but to raise rates multiple times during this coming year.
When economic things get really really hard, like in Russia or Europe or United States, that’s when the risk of irrational military moves becomes the greatest and that is what I fear the most here
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ALERT U.S. deployed two Patriot anti-aircraft missile batteries in Poland - AIRLIVE (https://www.airlive.net/alert-u-s-to-deploys-two-patriot-anti-aircraft-missile-batteries-in-poland/?fbclid=IwAR1ddK8q7qdPUjOwWvS47mkSQVaGeyn_vQzuuJFpSCh5UzftLLg_YVoJTpU)
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What the US does previously is immaterial to any justification of this invasion. This was wrong, and I'm delighted we're hammering the Russian economy.
It is not immaterial. It is quite material.
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Well, if you think prior US behaviors and mistakes justify Putin's invasion, fine with me.
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Well, if you think prior US behaviors and mistakes justify Putin's invasion, fine with me.
yep bombing maternity hospitals all caused by the US obviously
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How The War In Ukraine Might Change Putin’s Popularity Among Russians | FiveThirtyEight (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-war-in-ukraine-might-change-putins-popularity-among-russians/)
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Well, if you think prior US behaviors and mistakes justify Putin's invasion, fine with me.
Justify is probably a loaded word with little meaning here.
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Justify is probably a loaded word with little meaning here.
How about insinuate?
Is that also a loaded word?
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Explain why prior US actions are relevant to this invasion?
The US does it too? OK, got it, thanks.
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We're pretty hypocritical, yeah. And that affects how our messaging is received. It's all connected. It all matters.
So it's best to not attack a completely separate country when you're attacked by a tiny group of ass hats from a different one.
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I am an intelligent, rational human being. I can both dislike and disapprove of past US military action, and also dislike and disapprove of the current situation in Ukraine.
The difference, is that one is the topic of this thread, and one is not.
If you would like to talk about past US military actions there are plenty of places other than this thread to do so.
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I am an intelligent, rational human being. I can both dislike and disapprove of past US military action, and also dislike and disapprove of the current situation in Ukraine.
The difference, is that one is the topic of this thread, and one is not.
If you would like to talk about past US military actions there are plenty of places other than this thread to do so.
Custer was in the wrong damn it
oh wait never mind
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who knows where the real truth lies but interesting just the same
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O14sJulqlE
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There are OSINT groups all over the interwebs verifying Russian equipment losses that are occurring by way of destruction, abandonment, and Ukrainian farmer theft. The Ukrainians taking pictures are intentionally getting views of the identification numbers of all vehicles, when not damaged beyond al recognition. So I tend to believe the running numbers for Russian equipment loss-- if anything they're probably low because Ukrainians aren't taking pictures and publishing every single item taken/destroyed.
The numbers for troop losses are far less concrete, for obvious reasons.
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I am an intelligent, rational human being. I can both dislike and disapprove of past US military action, and also dislike and disapprove of the current situation in Ukraine.
The difference, is that one is the topic of this thread, and one is not.
If you would like to talk about past US military actions there are plenty of places other than this thread to do so.
You sound like a dictator here.
Ignore the past.
Pretend there's no link.
I forbid this action.
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Janes Analysis: Ukraine Conflict (https://www.janes.com/defence-news/defence/latest/ukraine-crisis)
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There are rumors out there that Xi knew about the impending Russian invasion, and asked Putin to hold off until after the Olympics. I can speculate but there's no way to know for sure if that's true. However, IF true, then it was just one of many major blunders, because it was just enough time to push Ukraine out of the season where the ground is frozen and easily traversed, and into the season where it starts to thaw and get muddy.
https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1502311504904863749?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502311504904863749%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Foryxspioenkop%2Fstatus%2F1502311504904863749%3Fs%3D21
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You sound like a dictator here.
Ignore the past.
Pretend there's no link.
I forbid this action.
For sure, I'm worse than Putin, even.
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There are OSINT groups all over the interwebs verifying Russian equipment losses that are occurring by way of destruction, abandonment, and Ukrainian farmer theft. The Ukrainians taking pictures are intentionally getting views of the identification numbers of all vehicles, when not damaged beyond al recognition. So I tend to believe the running numbers for Russian equipment loss-- if anything they're probably low because Ukrainians aren't taking pictures and publishing every single item taken/destroyed.
The numbers for troop losses are far less concrete, for obvious reasons.
So Ukranian Farmers are toppling the Semi - Red Army?
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So Ukranian Farmers are toppling the Semi - Red Army?
Arguably they now have the second-largest mechanized army currently within the borders of Ukraine.
Could be #1 in another couple of weeks, at this rate.
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For sure, I'm worse than Putin, even.
So YOU'RE why there's been a rising trend of Polonium poisoning amongst people trying to move to Austin?
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Just like the Navajo Rez...
(https://i.imgur.com/4lE3JMv.jpg)
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https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1502316519044399104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502316519044399104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FCNN%2Fstatus%2F1502316519044399104%3Fs%3D2026t%3Do4zD7PvkhSdTXuSr1ERPzw
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So YOU'RE why there's been a rising trend of Polonium poisoning amongst people trying to move to Austin?
I'm not the type to poison and tell...
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Explain why prior US actions are relevant to this invasion?
The US does it too? OK, got it, thanks.
- Russia clearly views (and should view) the US military as a threat
- Ukraine is on the Russian border
- America has been supplying Ukraine weapons for some time
- America will make no promises about Ukraine joining NATO nor apparently much anything else relating to Russia's concerns
Again, we can go on and on about it, but if China started sending weapons to, I dunno, Mexico and was intimately involved in their elections and there was a strong anti-US sentiment developing in the country, there would be a massive movement to do something about it.
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- Russia clearly views (and should view) the US military as a threat
- Ukraine is on the Russian border
- America has been supplying Ukraine weapons for some time
- America will make no promises about Ukraine joining NATO nor apparently much anything else relating to Russia's concerns
Again, we can go on and on about it, but if China started sending weapons to, I dunno, Mexico and was intimately involved in their elections and there was a strong anti-US sentiment developing in the country, there would be a massive movement to do something about it.
No there wouldnt
we would just open the borders wider and welcome our new Chinese citizens
and no matter how you spin it the US did not cause Russia to invade Ukraine
Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia has no right to demand anything of it
and no amount of US bashing will change that
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Keep on posting about Afghanistan and Yemen and it'll keep on getting deleted. It didn't happen by mistake.
Your whataboutism is tiresome and irrelevant. Try some other tactic if you really feel you must blame the USA for Russia slaughtering Ukraine.
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https://twitter.com/SilvermanJacob/status/1502316584739684360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502316584739684360%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FSilvermanJacob%2Fstatus%2F1502316584739684360
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Keep on posting about Afghanistan and Yemen and it'll keep on getting deleted. It didn't happen by mistake.
Your whataboutism is tiresome and irrelevant. Try some other tactic if you really feel you must blame the USA for Russia slaughtering Ukraine.
Keep on deleting it and I'll keep on posting it. Deleting points because they are inconvenient and don't lead to the proper opinion we are supposed to have is not really the point of message boarding.
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Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia has no right to demand anything of it
To avoid the police, lots of sovereign nations have demands made on them all the time. When they are at a disadvantage militarily, they often get invaded. So what is special here?
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Keep on deleting it and I'll keep on posting it. Deleting points because they are inconvenient and don't lead to the proper opinion we are supposed to have is not really the point of message boarding.
Just take your US caused all this posts to the in other news thread
and quit being bullheaded
hell I'll even joist with you over there about it
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Keep on deleting it and I'll keep on posting it. Deleting points because they are inconvenient and don't lead to the proper opinion we are supposed to have is not really the point of message boarding.
1) You don't have any "rights" here
2) You're free to discuss your desired topic on pretty much any other thread on this message board
3) The issues you're attempting to bring up have proven time and again to become much more broad, and more heated, which is precisely why I'm keeping them off this thread
If you don't like it, call the manager and ask for your money back
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To avoid the police, lots of sovereign nations have demands made on them all the time. When they are at a disadvantage militarily, they often get invaded. So what is special here?
nothing special but when it happens the invading country is at fault and completely unjustified
Are you still receiving your checks from Moscow with the sanctions and everything? Hope so dont want you to go hungry
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This censorship is snowflakey, no?
It's not at all about blaming the US for anything.
It's also not US bashing.
Why do you guys strawman any idea you don't like and turn it to 11?
From the Putin point of view, not in reality, but in his wonderland of WTF, he can compare what he's doing to what the US did with Iraq. That's the simple point being made.
Stop pretending like it's a crime against your eyeballs. Grow up.
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1) You don't have any "rights" here
2) You're free to discuss your desired topic on pretty much any other thread on this message board
3) The issues you're attempting to bring up have proven time and again to become much more broad, and more heated, which is precisely why I'm keeping them off this thread
If you don't like it, call the manager and ask for your money back
Actually this is illuminating. I have things I'd like to express. You have things you'd like to express, or suppress. But you have a stick and I don't. So you use it.
Yet we are actually asking why this invasion is happening? Why wouldn't it? Russia keeps saying the same things over and over and doesn't seem to get anywhere with their words. That they use their stick seems foreseeable.
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Actually this is illuminating. I have things I'd like to express. You have things you'd like to express, or suppress. But you have a stick and I don't. So you use it.
Yet we are actually asking why this invasion is happening? Why wouldn't it? Russia keeps saying the same things over and over and doesn't seem to get anywhere with their words. That they use their stick seems foreseeable.
I haven't seen anyone dispute that what Putin has done was foreseeable.
That doesn't make it acceptable.
Which is the point many are making.
And since this thread is about Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and not USA's military actions in Afghanistan or anywhere else, that's what we're discussing here.
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nothing special but when it happens the invading country is at fault and completely unjustified
Are you still receiving your checks from Moscow with the sanctions and everything? Hope so dont want you to go hungry
Apparently we are sending money and weapons to Ukraine. Whatever Moscow sends me would probably just be rerouted anyway. Is the proper border of Ukraine going to affect me or you in any way? Why are we risking world economic problems for it?
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OK, it foreseeable, by some maybe. I didn't foresee it personally. Someone could have clued me in on that.
Why now? Why not last year or the year before or next year? Was there some urgency to cleanse Ukraine of Nazis?
I think "we" don't know these answers. I don't, beyond speculation. It doesn't seem to be going well for the Russian forces from what we can glean.
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A world where countries are able to "adjust" borders with weaker neighbors sound dangerous to me. In the fairly distant past, that has been the case, and the results were not good.
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I haven't seen anyone dispute that what Putin has done was foreseeable.
That doesn't make it acceptable.
Which is the point many are making.
And since this thread is about Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and not USA's military actions in Afghanistan or anywhere else, that's what we're discussing here.
Yeah, and my point is that American foreign policy directly impacts Russia's choices here. Both diplomatic and military actions have been pretty aggressive, which in turn affects how Russia sees this action. If the point is made that Ukraine is a sovereign nation and so poo on Putin, then you delete every post about other sovereign nations getting invaded, it's not much of a discussion.
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A world where countries are able to "adjust" borders with weaker neighbors sound dangerous to me. In the fairly distant past, that has been the case, and the results were not good.
Well, the world where they can't adjust borders also appears problematic.
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Yeah, and my point is that American foreign policy directly impacts Russia's choices here. Both diplomatic and military actions have been pretty aggressive, which in turn affects how Russia sees this action. If the point is made that Ukraine is a sovereign nation and so poo on Putin, then you delete every post about other sovereign nations getting invaded, it's not much of a discussion.
I've readily agreed that invading sovereign nations is bad no matter who is doing it.
So now can we get back to the thread topic?
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Well, the world where they can't adjust borders also appears problematic.
The world where one country invades, murders, and slaughters its neighbors, certainly is problematic. Looks like we're in agreement.
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Well, the world where they can't adjust borders also appears problematic.
Hitler and Napoleon agree with you
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I've readily agreed that invading sovereign nations is bad no matter who is doing it.
So now can we get back to the thread topic?
It's not about whether its bad, its whether it happens. It happens. So the question isn't whether it is "bad" or "good" but more about "why is it happening" and "how to make it stop." Those questions necessarily mean we have to look at what the countries want and why they aren't getting it.
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Generally speaking, invasions of sovereign countries is something to avoid, not embrace, in my view.
It's a broad and complex topic, and really not part of what's trying to be discussed herein. Not many think the West should sit back and allow Putin to invade Ukraine with zero consequence. Maybe we should, maybe not, separate and very complex topic I think.
It strikes me as something that would lead to a less stable world.
Anyway, Russia seems to be biting off a tough hunk that is not being digested very well to date.
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It's not about whether its bad, its whether it happens. It happens. So the question isn't whether it is "bad" or "good" but more about "why is it happening" and "how to make it stop." Those questions necessarily mean we have to look at what the countries want and why they aren't getting it.
Putin's already told us what he wants. He sees Ukraine as Russian, and wants to own it.
Ukraine quite obviously disagrees. Which is all that really needs to be said.
You can disagree that the US should be involved with providing aid to Ukraine. That would be a reasonable discussion to have, and would be relevant to this thread topic.
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the bottom line is that the US did not do anything to justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine
The UN has condemned it as has most of the world
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The UN has condemned it as has most of the world
Yeah it's been a while since I've seen so much of the world united in thinking on an issue. Pretty sure Putin wasn't anticipating that level of concerted response.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2H4AM5HaIE
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Yeah, one quarter of negative GDP, and only in the most pessimistic scenario...
I feel that the direct impact of the Russia situation may not be, on its own, enough to cause a US recession. But it certainly seems like the US economy is balancing on the head of a pin right now, particularly with interest rates so low in the face of inflationary pressures...
Interest rates go up; cost of borrowing [and servicing debt] goes up, housing market crashes, and brings a hell of a lot more down with it.
I worry the Russia situation, which might not be enough on its own to hurt us, pushes us over the tipping point.
yeah....so this times 1,000.
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https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1502373889799819267?t=bgB3Jfg8ZTUyVzBIBWamuw&s=19
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Stability globally is generally desirable, I don't know of an exception. Instability should be combatted where possible. This is one purpose of the UN (not that it does a very good job). If the world sat back and said "We don't really care about Ukraine" and did nothing, it would be a clear sign to other powers that they could also engage in adventurism along the lines of the 1930s.
I doubt the Israeli leader would feel the same if Syria et al. had overrun most of Israel and offered "terms" similar to what Putin has offered.
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This notion Russia is justified in invading Ukraine is, to me, rather fantastical. The implication Russians will blame the US is the same. They know what's happened.
who said they were justified? where did you read the word justified? reading and comprehension, please. There is no scenario where any invasion of another country is justified. None. Invasion is the ultimate act of aggression and is a war crime.
Putin and Putin to alone is blame for his crimes. Having said that, the US has arrogantly, recklessly and stupidly been antagonizing the situation, and for no valid reason that I can see. I suggest you read up/listen to people far smarter than you or I, and who have studied this topic ad nauseam. Professor John Mearsheimer, Professor Stephen F. Cohen, Professor Noam Chomsky, plenty of former CIA analysts, plenty of former US diplomats. So many different people of so many different backgrounds and political stripes- all in agreement on this.
Despite what you think- you are just FACTUALLY wrong- as the US gov't officials at the highest levels made repeated verbal assurances to Mikahil Gorbachev that NATO would not expand any further east if concessions were made for Germany to reunite. The same Germany that just 40 years prior to reunification invaded Gorbachev's country and completely destroyed it. This is documented many times on official records from declassified documents from 5 different governments. It's a matter of record and a matter of fact. It's all there to read in the declassified US, UK, West German, USSR, and French government documents. I've sent you think many times, it's from National Security archives of The George Washington University- there are 40+ actual documents where you can read them all for yourself. Not linking it again.
Bush II made the disastrous attempt to force countries like Ukraine and Georgia into NATO, but thanks to the objections of France and Germany- the British were able to broker the deal to give those countries open ended "invitations". This was a massive mistake to say the least. Even one of the biggest Anti-Russian hawks- Fiona Hill- who worked in the Bush II administration at the time- openly said it was the biggest mistake Bush II could've made and called it the absolute worst case scenario in interviews.
Things were pretty calm in Ukraine though and didn't go into nuclear metldown until 2014, when an even stupider Obama administration thought it'd be a great idea to get involved in the internal affairs of another country and back a coup of a democratically elected government and hand pick the replacement government- and pull Ukraine into US orbit and turn it into an effective US colony- which let's face it- it has been since 2014. The backstory and details of which are explained below:
https://spaceworms.substack.com/p/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine?s=r
Putin is to blame for his own war crimes and actions. US has thrown gasoline on the fire and are sacrificing Ukraine and trying to use it as a quasi-Afghanistan to "bleed the Russians". US does not give a shit about Ukraine. US didn't let them into NATO after 14 years. US has a security agreement with Ukraine via 1994 Budapest Memorandum. Zelenskyy has asked the US repeatedly to come their aide via this agreement and US refuses. US isn't setting up No Fly Zones. When Sec of State Blinken "gave the green light to Poland to fly fighter jets" in Ukraine, Poland turned around and said "we'll donate them to you, you guys fly them in" and US said...."uh no, we can't do that....it's too risky for us".
US has been flooding the country for years with arms to support an insurgency while Ukraine gets destroyed and Russia gets bled in the process.
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He's CONSTANTLY blaming US actions, CONSTANTLY, and to me, that is justification, or a rather simplistic and incorrect effort to say "Well, Russia was worried about Ukraine, so they invaded." I can't take it any other way. I might as well listen to a Putin SPOX.
Ukraine was zero threat to Russia, zero.
yeah, well that's YOUR opinion. obviously the leaders of Russia disagreed with your opinion. Even it's former leader, the constantly drunk Clinton stooge Yeltsin would disagree with your opinion. Many others who are not Russian or leaders of Russia, also happen to disagree with your opinion.
Why don't you look on a map and get a clue as to why Russia would perceive Ukraine in NATO as a potential threat to them. If Ukraine was in NATO and say US decided to invade Russia one day, they would literally be unable to halt a land invasion. Ukraine as a neutral buffer pushes their defensive lines all the way back to the Carpathian mountains and it narrows their exposure across the north european plain to only the eastern border of Poland. With Ukraine in NATO, the NATO front lines are way beyond the Carpathians and far across the widest section of the north european plain and place Russias new defensible front line to the Ukraine border and across nearly 1,500 miles of wide open, flat, land- and only 180 miles from Volgograd. And if Volgograd was taken it would shut down the Volga river and cut off oil & gas supplies from the Caspian Sea to Moscow.
The Baltics simply don't matter to them much, they were pissed about it- but the threat is nowhere near as real, as they could cut off and encircle the Baltics from Kaliningrad and Belarus via the suwalki gap.
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What the US does previously is immaterial to any justification of this invasion. This was wrong, and I'm delighted we're hammering the Russian economy.
Who is justifying the invasion? NO ONE is.
What the US does previously is not immaterial. How can US sanction anyone. US has no moral high ground and the sanctions are a joke that will just crush regular people. Who sanctioned US when it invaded Afghanistan? Iraq? Oh yeah, that's right. No one. Because it's OK when US does war crimes. US consistently violated international law. Which is part of the reason why no one respects international law.
And you're delighted we're hamming the Russian economy? You're delighted that instability in Russian energy and grain exports that are vital to the global economy- will cause disruptions affecting the entire world? You're delighted that tens of millions of regular ass working class Russians who did nothing wrong at all are being crushed? You're delighted that millions of Americans who are already being crushed by record inflation and rising fuel prices are getting crushed? What are you? A psychopath?
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Stability globally is generally desirable, I don't know of an exception. Instability should be combatted where possible. This is one purpose of the UN (not that it does a very good job). If the world sat back and said "We don't really care about Ukraine" and did nothing, it would be a clear sign to other powers that they could also engage in adventurism along the lines of the 1930s.
I doubt the Israeli leader would feel the same if Syria et al. had overrun most of Israel and offered "terms" similar to what Putin has offered.
how would Israel feel if a hostile military alliance was on their border.....oh wait...we already know that answer. LOL. Bad example.
Israel is one of the most aggressive nations in the entire world. If they so even as much sniff a threat they'll take it out preemptively and without thinking twice about it. Preemption is part of their military doctrine.
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Exactly. And the fed has no choice - as we approach double digit inflation, but to raise rates multiple times during this coming year.
When economic things get really really hard, like in Russia or Europe or United States, that’s when the risk of irrational military moves becomes the greatest and that is what I fear the most here
100%.
A man backed into a corner will most likely come out like a wild animal because it's his only option. And a man with 6,700 nukes backed into a corner is freaking terrifying.
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We're pretty hypocritical, yeah. And that affects how our messaging is received. It's all connected. It all matters.
So it's best to not attack a completely separate country when you're attacked by a tiny group of ass hats from a different one.
:043:
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https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1502425165543714816?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502425165543714816%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fvisegrad24%2Fstatus%2F1502425165543714816%3Fs%3D21
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how would Israel feel if a hostile military alliance was on their border.....oh wait...we already know that answer. LOL. Bad example.
Israel is one of the most aggressive nations in the entire world. If they so even as much sniff a threat they'll take it out preemptively and without thinking twice about it. Preemption is part of their military doctrine.
I said I doubt the Israeli leader would would accept those terms in his own country, which has zero to do with how Israel responds to hostile neighbors.
It is an example spot on point.
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To me, when someone constantly rationalizes and blames others for an invasion of this ilk, they are striving to JUSTIFY the invasion by blaming others and bringing up reasons it happened. "The US is bad, so Russia is simply doing the same thing." "Russia had grievances so they had to invade."
Rationalizations = Justification = Whataboutisms = everyone else does it. It's also boring and repetitive.
And yes, I'm in favor of bringing Russia to its knees economically, I have zero wish to aid them at this point and continue funding their actions.
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How a Ukrainian dam played a key role in tensions with Russia | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/597910-how-a-ukrainian-dam-played-a-key-role-in-tensions-with)
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To me, when someone constantly rationalizes and blames others for an invasion of this ilk, they are striving to JUSTIFY the invasion by blaming others and bringing up reasons it happened. "The US is bad, so Russia is simply doing the same thing." "Russia had grievances so they had to invade."
Rationalizations = Justification = Whataboutisms = everyone else does it. It's also boring and repetitive.
And yes, I'm in favor of bringing Russia to its knees economically, I have zero wish to aid them at this point and continue funding their actions.
IMHO Ukraine is the terrified damsel in distress, Russia is the crazy ex-boyfriend that still wants to control her, NATO is a restraining order, and the US is the "other guy" who is trying to convince her to get the restraining order.
Maybe trying to convince her to get the restraining order sets off the crazy ex-boyfriend so he tries to beat the sh!t out of her. Maybe that's a risk that all parties know going in because the ex is unhinged. That doesn't mean trying to convince her to get the restraining order justifies the crazy ex-boyfriend's actions.
In this case, however, the crazy ex didn't realize he was WAY out of shape, and didn't know that the girl had been studying krav maga for the last several years...
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One continuing lesson is how vulnerable armor and aircraft are to MANPADS et al.
Anything with a heat signature is vulnerable to one man with some gear.
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IMHO Ukraine is the terrified damsel in distress, Russia is the crazy ex-boyfriend that still wants to control her, NATO is a restraining order, and the US is the "other guy" who is trying to convince her to get the restraining order.
Maybe trying to convince her to get the restraining order sets off the crazy ex-boyfriend so he tries to beat the sh!t out of her. Maybe that's a risk that all parties know going in because the ex is unhinged. That doesn't mean trying to convince her to get the restraining order justifies the crazy ex-boyfriend's actions.
In this case, however, the crazy ex didn't realize he was WAY out of shape, and didn't know that the girl had been studying krav maga for the last several years...
Summed up beautifully.
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One of the many problems with Putin, is that he actually believes this to be true. What happened to the USSR is absolutely the opposite of "success." That he still doesn't understand this, is what has led to this current failure, and the now impending and inevitable destruction of Putin's Russia.
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1502531404491628545?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502531404491628545%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fvisegrad24%2Fstatus%2F1502531404491628545%3Fs%3D21
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One of the many problems with Putin, is that he actually believes this to be true:
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1502531404491628545?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502531404491628545%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fvisegrad24%2Fstatus%2F1502531404491628545%3Fs%3D21
Yes. I am not convinced the sanctions will have much effect. Maybe more on us, than them.
And if they do, I am not convinced we will get the desired response.
Their citizenry is much more built to stand economic hardship than our own.
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The Russian economy was already struggling propped up with energy exports. Now it's drowning. It will have an impact. The alternative is to continue funding their military.
I don't think we've ever seen sanctions to this degree before, ever (aside from war time). Usually major countries don't sign on and others cheat. In this case, it's much of the global economy that stopped doing business with Russia. And yes, China and India will try and compensate.
The alternatives are not very appealing either:
1. Stand aside completely and use harsh language.
2. No sanctions, try and arm Ukraine, but let Russia continue to fund its military as before.
3. Military conflict.
4. We could rationalize and say "Well, we attack other countries too, so it's OK."
Of course, as misguided as the US has been at times, we have not attacked other countries with the intent of incorporating them into our own. We blow them up and then leave (since 1898 anyway).
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Yes. I am not convinced the sanctions will have much effect. Maybe more on us, than them.
And if they do, I am not convinced we will get the desired response.
Their citizenry is much more built to stand economic hardship than our own.
I see a lot of people saying stuff like this. I don't buy it for a second.
There are now two generations of Russians that never knew the CCCP, never knew bread lines, and have nothing in common with their ancestors that were notorious for bearing hardships. They also know the world far beyond what the state-owned media ever allowed their parents and grandparents to see. Putin is struggling to control the narrative even from state-media sources, and newer generations have had access beyond that. Even with Facebook and instagram shut down, Youtube and Tik Tok have still been able to penetrate.
This ain't your dad's Russia. And I don't expect them to just stoically accept their lot.
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Putin is just playing poker and going all-in whenever things get tight. He knows everyone else will fold. Everyone else has much to lose. But he has the short stack, so his weapon is putting those with more, at-risk. And we don't like being at-risk.
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The problem with Putin is that even if he wins, he loses, majorly. I can't think of any good outcome for him at this point that makes him better off than before he invaded.
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If Russia has really lost over 12,000 men this is really bad for Putin
as I said earlier Russia lost 15,000 in Afghanistan but that was over a 10 year period
the Ukraine war has only been going on for 3 weeks
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Right, I was wondering what the downside is of Russia not having Ukraine or Crimea or any of it? Is there any reason they're doing this other than simply wanting to?
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Sevastopol is a major Russian naval base. Ukraine has a lot of raw materials. The Crimea apparently is in need of water. I think the largest reason is that Putin wants a legacy as having put back the USSR to the extent possible, he thinks of Ukraine as Russia.
I once read that Hitler got more raw materials from Russia before invading than after.
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The United States has a pretty big track record of getting its hands on everything and threatening military action if we don't get our way. This is going to affect how other countries act.
Speaking of which, the U.S. exercised this very track record to blow apart Poland's offered help to Ukraine's skies earlier this week:
"The Pentagon on Tuesday rejected Poland’s surprise announcement that it would give the United States its MiG-29 fighter jets for use by Ukraine, a rare display of disharmony by NATO allies seeking to boost Ukrainian fighters while avoiding getting caught up in a wider war with Russia. Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said Poland’s declaration that it intended to deliver the 28 jets to the U.S. Ramstein Air Base in Germany raised the concerning prospect of warplanes departing from a U.S. and NATO base to fly into airspace contested with Russia in the Ukraine conflict."
It's worth wondering if this "rare display of disharmony" by the U.S. is a sign of our State Department willing to aid Ukraine enough with things like statements of "solidarity," deploying troops to set up refugee camps in Poland, sanctions, urging U.S. companies to wind down business in Russia, etc. But NOT willing to help Ukraine enough to potentially tip the scales against Russia, for example with fighter jets.
If so, is our State Department egging on a protracted conflict meant to bleed the Russian military, regardless of how many Ukrainians are also killed, no matter how many refugees result west into Europe, and no matter how much Ukraine's cities mirror Dresden of February 1945?
https://twitter.com/AP/status/1501356012024041474
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why not simply give MIG fighters to Ukraine?
why would the USA need to be involved?
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The issue there is flying those fighters from Ramstein to Ukraine with US pilots would be, well dangerous. The initial idea was to fly them with Polish pilots, which also would be touchy.
Probably the solution is to get Ukrainian pilots into Poland to take them.
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duh
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I see a lot of people saying stuff like this. I don't buy it for a second.
There are now two generations of Russians that never knew the CCCP, never knew bread lines, and have nothing in common with their ancestors that were notorious for bearing hardships. They also know the world far beyond what the state-owned media ever allowed their parents and grandparents to see. Putin is struggling to control the narrative even from state-media sources, and newer generations have had access beyond that. Even with Facebook and instagram shut down, Youtube and Tik Tok have still been able to penetrate.
This ain't your dad's Russia. And I don't expect them to just stoically accept their lot.
Oh I don’t disagree. But my fear is- what can they/ will they do about it.
my point is- how does Putin react. I am not confident he reacts in the way most of the rest of humanity wants him to.
And Cincy- I am not questioning what has been done or suggesting any different strategy. That’s above my pay grade.
Just watching a deadly game from the stands, trying to figure out if it expands into the stands and out of the stadium, since conditions are quickly worsening on the field, in the stands, and beyond- and the main combatant is not stable or predictable.
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I think its a matter of just trying to avoid a nuclear reaction
Poland giving planes and then US replacing them with Poland is very risky
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I wonder if the Russian rocket force commanders would follow a Putin order for a first strike.
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I wonder if the Russian rocket force commanders would follow a Putin order for a first strike.
Great question. Would ours?
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https://apple.news/AUpMZ6P6eQOW-0mCgldqUIw
War has brought the world to the brink of a food crisis
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think I'll stock up on frozen pizzas
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What happened recently at Chernobyl? | PBS NewsHour (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-happened-recently-at-chernobyl?fbclid=IwAR08UgWQHgqUpjzBkvkApxxtcGrdseHc_RtfEcQs9vnZEq8CZT5-MhNR03s)
The Swedish Radiation Safety Authority estimates that a power outage at Chernobyl will not lead to any radiological emissions in the next couple weeks.
“The fuel storage ponds are also very deep and would likely take weeks for the water to boil down, even without cooling pumps active. This should hopefully allow enough time for the power to cooling systems to be restored,” said Mark Wenman, a nuclear energy expert at Imperial College London.
The IAEA, which is the U.N. nuclear watchdog based in Vienna, said it saw no critical impact on safety at Chernobyl because there could be “effective heat removal without need for electrical supply” from spent nuclear fuel at the site.
Lyman and others said they were more concerned about potential damage to cooling systems and other problems at Ukraine’s four other operating nuclear power plants, rather than at the defunct Chernobyl site. In 2017, Chernobyl got a new 2 billion euro containment system to go over the old sarcophagus.
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Oh I don’t disagree. But my fear is- what can they/ will they do about it.
my point is- how does Putin react. I am not confident he reacts in the way most of the rest of humanity wants him to.
And Cincy- I am not questioning what has been done or suggesting any different strategy. That’s above my pay grade.
Just watching a deadly game from the stands, trying to figure out if it expands into the stands and out of the stadium, since conditions are quickly worsening on the field, in the stands, and beyond- and the main combatant is not stable or predictable.
The rest of the world is only going to allow itself to be held hostage by a nuclear terrorist for so long.
And to put a fine point on it, that patience has pretty much run out.
Putin puts himself at tables 20' away from his nearest adversaries, he hides in seclusion in his secret lair in the Urals. He doesn't act like a person who is fine with pushing the button that ends the life of himself and every single person he's ever known and cared about.
That absolutely plays as part of the calculus.
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The rest of the world is only going to allow itself to be held hostage by a nuclear terrorist for so long.
And to put a fine point on it, that patience has pretty much run out.
Putin puts himself at tables 20' away from his nearest adversaries, he hides in seclusion in his secret lair in the Urals. He doesn't act like a person who is fine with pushing the button that ends the life of himself and every single person he's ever known and cared about.
That absolutely plays as part of the calculus.
I certainly hope this true.
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I certainly hope this true.
Yup me too.
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Yup
https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1502781942558822408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502781942558822408%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdavidfrum%2Fstatus%2F1502781942558822408%3Ft%3DA76SAoQAq70yzYxAyLvqOg26s%3D19
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I think it's more likely to be true than otherwise
call his bluff
end this horseshit
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Marine Special Ops commander analyzes Russia's invasion of Ukraine (taskandpurpose.com) (https://taskandpurpose.com/analysis/russia-invasion-ukraine-strategic-failures/?fbclid=IwAR2Bcbaw1u8a3rzmEdG2B9ptHDOJ_rjTidCAPB3k9GeToiCzUpg0ApsYHXI)
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Posters on this thread need to be careful about saying anything harsh about Putin. He may decide to start a nuclear war and end civilization as a result of what you post here. Not to mention the irreparable harm that would do to the climate.
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It would be nice to know that Putin is still thinking rationally.
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Clearly giving Ukraine a handful of old Polish Mig29s is way over the line and would result in world wide nuclear destruction.
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It would be nice to know that Putin is still thinking rationally.
In a rational sense, he's in must-win mode now right? They are already being sanctioned, so the biggest danger to him personally is if he loses this war. They must pursue it and get some sizable gains to make the endeavor worth it.
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IMHO, he's lost no matter what, I don't see how he can get sizeable gains at this point. I can't envision any future where this is a win at all. He certainly needs a "gain" he can spin as a win, no doubt, no Nazis in Ukraine, and perhaps recognition of Crimea and Donbass. But it is a lot of expense and effort to recover two relatively minor pieces of land. Is that sufficient for him to spin? Maybe, internally.
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Russia-Ukraine: Legacy of Germany's Angela Merkel is seen differently (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/14/russia-ukraine-legacy-of-germanys-angela-merkel-is-seen-differently.html?recirc=taboolainternal)
Merkel’s “big failure” was not reversing those economic links and energy projects in the wake of Moscow’s illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014, said Daniela Schwarzer, executive director for Europe and Eurasia at the Open Society Foundations think tank.
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In a rational sense, he's in must-win mode now right? They are already being sanctioned, so the biggest danger to him personally is if he loses this war. They must pursue it and get some sizable gains to make the endeavor worth it.
You don't have to sound like an advisor,he just may be reading
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You don't have to sound like an advisor,he just may be reading
Don't be absurd, he has People for that.
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You don't have to sound like an advisor,he just may be reading
Maybe MDot is Putin. Would explain his Michigan fandom
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Could Russia use chemical weapons in Ukraine? (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/14/could-russia-use-chemical-weapons-in-ukraine-the-threat-is-very-real.html)
While the West has been united in its condemnation of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, with the U.K. describing Putin’s regime as “barbaric,” just how far the U.S. and its NATO allies are willing to go to support Ukraine, and stop Russia, is a moot point. NATO has repeatedly ruled out any kind of military support, such as a no-fly zone pleaded for by Ukraine, that could lead it into a direct confrontation with nuclear power Russia.
But Poland’s President Andrzej Duda said in an interview Sunday that the use of chemical weapons in Ukraine by Russia could change the West’s calculus over the conflict.
“Of course, everybody hopes that he would not dare do that but ... if he uses any weapons of mass destruction then this will be a game changer in the whole thing,” he told the BBC’s Sophie Raworth Sunday, adding that NATO would have to “think seriously what to do because then it starts to be dangerous not only for Europe … but the whole world.”
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Maybe MDot is Putin. Would explain his Michigan fandom
That's is a dirty,lowdown.vile,accurate thing to say
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Merkel’s “big failure” was not reversing those economic links and energy projects in the wake of Moscow’s illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014, said Daniela Schwarzer, executive director for Europe and Eurasia at the Open Society Foundations think tank.
Monday morning QBing,perhaps, but had this not happen then critics would be harping they could have had access to cheap,available energy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Monday morning QBing,perhaps, but had this not happen then critics would be harping they could have had access to cheap,available energy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It is, it's what happens with a longer term view. Germany really boxed itself in with its "green energy" policies, supported by Putins donations. There were voices at the time urging another direction of course.
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So, IF Russia used chemical munitions (I doubt they will), and NATO says it will respond even harder, what can that mean?
All options are on the table? What an overused term.
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The US and NATO are allowed to change their mind and do so without announcing it to Putin in advance. The current administration's doctrine that Russia can invade any non-NATO nation with the only sanctions as repercussions is pretty chickenshit. Putin has the people running things over here afraid of their shadow.
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https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1503331460555677696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1503331460555677696%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fiaponomarenko%2Fstatus%2F1503331460555677696%3Fs%3D21
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The US and NATO are allowed to change their mind and do so without announcing it to Putin in advance. The current administration's doctrine that Russia can invade any non-NATO nation with the only sanctions as repercussions is pretty chickenshit. Putin has the people running things over here afraid of their shadow.
When you have a chance to spend billions and lose thousands and potentially millions of lives for a border dispute on the other side of the world, I say you have to do it.
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IMHO, he's lost no matter what, I don't see how he can get sizeable gains at this point. I can't envision any future where this is a win at all. He certainly needs a "gain" he can spin as a win, no doubt, no Nazis in Ukraine, and perhaps recognition of Crimea and Donbass. But it is a lot of expense and effort to recover two relatively minor pieces of land. Is that sufficient for him to spin? Maybe, internally.
The only way Putin had any chance at succeeding (and I don't think anyone knows what his version of "succeed" was) was by 1st round knockout. Instead, he's trying to put down a united, motivated, and well-armed insurgency in an area the size of Texas with a shorthanded army that gets more shorthanded every day and can barely eat, move, or be resupplied. And he's getting his ass kicked in the information war. Any stooge government the Kremlin tries to install won't last 12 hours.
On top of that, he's been working for 20 years to seed cracks in the Western alliance (WEurope's reliance on Russian fossil fuels, Brexit, Donald Trump, etc.). He has shanked all of that away in the first 3 days, all the while ensuring that his own economy is blown to pieces. NATO and the EU are in as firm a shape as ever.
The Chinese position right now can be best summarized by this: they're bargain hunting.
Larry Bond (Tom Clancy's collaborator on Red Storm RisingTom Clancy's collaborator on Red Storm Rising) wrote a book called Red Phoenix about a mythical invasion of South Korea by the North Koreans in the mid-80s. A solid read, and I see this ending in a very similar manner.
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It is, it's what happens with a longer term view. Germany really boxed itself in with its "green energy" policies, supported by Putins donations. There were voices at the time urging another direction of course.
Why would Putin donate to "green energy" policies when he's trying to sell them oil?
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Why would Putin donate to "green energy" policies when he's trying to sell them oil?
Because he was backing the German Green Party's war against nuclear, in order to increase German dependence on Russian oil and gas.
Yes, it sounds completely nonsensical, and yet it worked perfectly...
(...until he screwed it all up with this invasion...)
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Because he was backing the German Green Party's war against nuclear, in order to increase German dependence on Russian oil and gas.
Yes, it sounds completely nonsensical, and yet it worked perfectly...
(...until he screwed it all up with this invasion...)
You're always thinking,Butch - Vlad we be a welcome addition to any Conglomerates with their manipulative deceptions
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Pimp my ride, Ukraine 2022 style:
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1503365400939147273?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1503365400939147273%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FUAWeapons%2Fstatus%2F1503365400939147273%3Ft%3DP-odZtgDDnheWgK_J_CKgg26s%3D19
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Thats wild
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Why would Putin donate to "green energy" policies when he's trying to sell them oil?
Aside from closing nuke plants, they also prevented fracking in Germany, and most of Europe. So, they buy oil and NG from Russia, where it is cleaner, or something.
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Oil prices falling today, WTI is down over 6%.
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Oil prices falling today, WTI is down over 6%.
A lot of this was the result of a US official saying Russia was showing signs it might be willing to have substantive
negotiations over Ukraine
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/commodities/news/oil-prices-slide-extending-last-weeks-decline/articleshow/90192143.cms
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Putin's Ukraine invasion will spur 30-year economic setback: experts (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/14/putins-invasion-of-ukraine-will-knock-the-russian-economy-back-by-30-years.html)
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Translated: In fire, smoke and destruction. This is what Mariupol looks like from the sky today. It is from this spring, open to the enemy sky, air bombs fly around the clock to the once beautiful seaside town.
https://twitter.com/ua_industrial/status/1503329278494134273?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1503329278494134273%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fua_industrial%2Fstatus%2F1503329278494134273%3Fs%3D2026t%3Dl9xv93guosfq4SlVUjkqZQ
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How can Russia ever rejoin any community of nations so long as Putin is there?
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I don't think I'm wrong that this is essentially the first large-scale conflict between militaries equipped with truly modern weapons, and it feels rather Spanish Civil War-ish in the sense that modern militaries are getting a real-time lesson in what works and what doesn't in the modern arsenal.
As a former air defender (e.g., surface to air missile soldier), there is a lot about what is happening in Ukraine that is fascinating. While my knowledge is dated, at one time I knew quite a bit about how the air and ground wars interact.
I'm not surprised, but I'm disappointed in the lack of understanding by arm-chair generals about why a "no-fly zone" or sending Polish Mig 29s to Ukraine have serious limitations in their efficacy/usefulness. Imagine, politics seems to have more influence on some people than the specifics of how things actually work.
This has also, so far, been quite an education in the complexity and difficulty of military operations. The old saying is that amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics, and we're seeing a good example of the logistical problems in warfare playing out in Ukraine. We're also seeing the impact of troop morale, training, and equipment. Combined arms operations (e.g., infantry, armor, artillery, air, all at the same time) are difficult, and require practice to do well. And the least effective equipment relied on by any single unit ends up being the equipment that dictates how that unit operates.
It both fascinates me, and at the same time horrifies me to take an analytical view of something that is nothing short of horrific in practice.
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By the looks of it Ukraine already has a big area of no fly zones
No reason to bring a direct confrontation between the US and or other NATO country and Russia
It appears the American military feels the same way
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https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1502425165543714816?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502425165543714816%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fvisegrad24%2Fstatus%2F1502425165543714816%3Fs%3D21
I've never heard of Visegrad24, but that may be one of the dumbest tweets I've ever seen.
Anyone who has paid even a little bit of attention to the Syrian war can tell you that it didn't become a complete humanitarian disaster until after the CIA started arming, training, funding, and flooding weapons to "freedom fighting rebels" that were largely just Al-Qaeda affiliates/off-shots- all in an effort to topple the Assad regime.
You can look it up, CIA program called Timber Sycamore. Professor Jeffrey Sachs talks about it below on MSNBC. He predicted the entire outcome of the conflict in Syria once the US got involved and armed, trained, and funded "rebels" (aka terrorists) in a proxy war to fight the Assad regime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abCkOe5KGxI
Had Assad been overthrown, Syria would literally be run by terrorists right now. Great plan, Obama administration. These guys literally were the stupidest people in the room. And they are back in charge baby.
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Maybe MDot is Putin. Would explain his Michigan fandom
Well. I think you could argue that Michigan is kind of like the Russia of college football. A once long ago great power, that is now decayed and fun to laugh at- not nearly as great or tough or important as they think- and is also someone else's bitch now (Russia: China's bitch, Michigan: OSU's bitch).
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I see a lot of people saying stuff like this. I don't buy it for a second.
There are now two generations of Russians that never knew the CCCP, never knew bread lines, and have nothing in common with their ancestors that were notorious for bearing hardships. They also know the world far beyond what the state-owned media ever allowed their parents and grandparents to see. Putin is struggling to control the narrative even from state-media sources, and newer generations have had access beyond that. Even with Facebook and instagram shut down, Youtube and Tik Tok have still been able to penetrate.
This ain't your dad's Russia. And I don't expect them to just stoically accept their lot.
you're probably right, but I don't doubt for a second that even still they are 1000x tougher and more built to withstand hardship than modern Americans. We are the weakest, whiniest, laziest, bunch of soft little sissy bitches in the entire world.
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Putin is just playing poker and going all-in whenever things get tight. He knows everyone else will fold. Everyone else has much to lose. But he has the short stack, so his weapon is putting those with more, at-risk. And we don't like being at-risk.
I think this is accurate. And everyone else would and should fold. No one wants to take the risk of starting a nuclear war that could be species ending. Only a maniac would even attempt to call the bluff. Even if the chance is less than 1% that Putin really is a complete nutjob and would start a nuclear war- yeah, no thanks. The entire world shutdown over a disease that has a less than 1% chance of hospitalization. Now imagine a nuclear war....yeah, no thanks.
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If so, is our State Department egging on a protracted conflict meant to bleed the Russian military, regardless of how many Ukrainians are also killed, no matter how many refugees result west into Europe, and no matter how much Ukraine's cities mirror Dresden of February 1945?
this is exactly what the state department/CIA is doing. Hillary Clinton went on MSNBC a few days ago and gleefully admitted as much.
And as far as Poland goes with the fighter jet hot potato fiasco, well they were extremely shrewd to reply to US Sec of State Blinken's public declaration of "we're giving Poland the green light to fly those jets in!" by saying "nah bro, we'll give them to you 'Merica, y'all fly them in." US said publicly at Psaski press conference, "oh no we can't do that, it's too risky." THEN WHY YOU DID YOU TELL POLAND TO JUST A FEW DAYS BEFORE. Only logical conclusion is they were willing to risk Polish lives on something so reckless, but not American lives.
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I think this is accurate. And everyone else would and should fold. No one wants to take the risk of starting a nuclear war that could be species ending. Only a maniac would even attempt to call the bluff. Even if the chance is less than 1% that Putin really is a complete nutjob and would start a nuclear war- yeah, no thanks. The entire world shutdown over a disease that has a less than 1% chance of hospitalization. Now imagine a nuclear war....yeah, no thanks.
The whole world is calling his bluff. We dont need to escalate things to get results. Putin is doing this all by himself. This will be over in a few months and when it is Putin will be seen as the real loser.
Putin attacking Ukraine to me is very similar to the blunder Hitler committed by invading Russia.
Their ego led them to a huge miscalculation in their military ability. and their foe's resolve.
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The issue there is flying those fighters from Ramstein to Ukraine with US pilots would be, well dangerous. The initial idea was to fly them with Polish pilots, which also would be touchy.
Probably the solution is to get Ukrainian pilots into Poland to take them.
not sure that's much of a solution either. how is russia going to know if there's a polish guy or ukrainian guy flying that jet? all they are going to see is a foreign fighter jet coming into Ukraine air space and if they take it as Polish direct involvement and decide to shoot that fighter jet down- shit could get hairy fast.
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I think it's more likely to be true than otherwise
call his bluff
end this horseshit
I'm with you 100% that I wish this horseshit as you put it, ended. But this is not a bluff any sane US leader should attempt to call.
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Posters on this thread need to be careful about saying anything harsh about Putin. He may decide to start a nuclear war and end civilization as a result of what you post here. Not to mention the irreparable harm that would do to the climate.
Nah. We can say whatever we want about him. I think utee's nickname of Dickface was pretty good, never heard that one before and I've heard a lot of cuss words. That's a great one that I'll be copying.
US and EU leaders should be careful however, in order not to enflame tensions. Lindsey Graham should shut her ass up and stop calling for the death of Putin. That certainly isn't helping to diffuse the situation.
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Clearly giving Ukraine a handful of old Polish Mig29s is way over the line and would result in world wide nuclear destruction.
how you going to give them to them?
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Could Russia use chemical weapons in Ukraine? (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/14/could-russia-use-chemical-weapons-in-ukraine-the-threat-is-very-real.html)
But Poland’s President Andrzej Duda said in an interview Sunday that the use of chemical weapons in Ukraine by Russia could change the West’s calculus over the conflict.
“Of course, everybody hopes that he would not dare do that but ... if he uses any weapons of mass destruction then this will be a game changer in the whole thing,” he told the BBC’s Sophie Raworth Sunday, adding that NATO would have to “think seriously what to do because then it starts to be dangerous not only for Europe … but the whole world.”
Poland's President should really shut the f**k up and let the big boys handle it. My god Poland is such a worthless useless country. Why the f**k are they even in NATO? Like any decisions NATO makes is going to have any input by f**king Poland. It will be the US dictating the terms, as usual. It's US's ball, court, and rules.
And this is the problem with letting a bunch of worthless shitbag useless countries halfway around the world into NATO and giving them an Article V security guarantee from the United States. Why in the flying f**k should the US pledge to defend all these extra countries? It shouldn't. Western Europe- OK- I get it- France, Germany, UK, Italy, Spain- what's done is done and those countries are firmly part of the West. Whatever. But now all of Eastern Europe too? Yeah, no thanks. We gain literally NOTHING by this. Less than nothing, actually.
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The US and NATO are allowed to change their mind and do so without announcing it to Putin in advance. The current administration's doctrine that Russia can invade any non-NATO nation with the only sanctions as repercussions is pretty chickenshit. Putin has the people running things over here afraid of their shadow.
uhhh...what? this is stupid af. think about it for a second. then get back to me. we're not the worlds police. other countries invade countries and commit atrocities all the time. and we tend not to get directly involved. this is not our business, not our fight.
has nothing to do with being chicken shit. Ukraine isn't in NATO. Therefore Ukraine doesn't get an Article V guarantee. US has no obligation to come to the defense of some random little shitbag country halfway around the world that's being attacked. If it did- the US would be getting involved in new wars 24/7.
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When you have a chance to spend billions and lose thousands and potentially millions of lives for a border dispute on the other side of the world, I say you have to do it.
LMFAO. For real.
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Putin's Ukraine invasion will spur 30-year economic setback: experts (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/14/putins-invasion-of-ukraine-will-knock-the-russian-economy-back-by-30-years.html)
shit, might set them back even further if Putin decides to nationalize everything, ban foreign imports, and try to completely insulate Russia.
Goldman Sachs is still making coin trading Russian debt- story just broke about it. And they want stop either. You can bet your ass on that. But if foreign investment leaves and do so permanently, could be more than a 30 year set back for Russia.
But, Putin is probably going to die soon. Statistically speaking that is. He's already 70. How much longer does he really have to live and rule the country? Maybe the next guy isn't as big a prick?
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Yup
https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1502781942558822408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502781942558822408%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdavidfrum%2Fstatus%2F1502781942558822408%3Ft%3DA76SAoQAq70yzYxAyLvqOg26s%3D19
Eh, not really.
Anything that shitbag piece of human filth David Frum says you can pretty much take the opposite to the bank.
Ukraine definitely has a neo-nazi problem in their armed forces and certain elements within it's government.
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I've never heard of Visegrad24, but that may be one of the dumbest tweets I've ever seen.
Anyone who has paid even a little bit of attention to the Syrian war can tell you that it didn't become a complete humanitarian disaster until after the CIA started arming, training, funding, and flooding weapons to "freedom fighting rebels" that were largely just Al-Qaeda affiliates/off-shots- all in an effort to topple the Assad regime.
You can look it up, CIA program called Timber Sycamore. Professor Jeffrey Sachs talks about it below on MSNBC. He predicted the entire outcome of the conflict in Syria once the US got involved and armed, trained, and funded "rebels" (aka terrorists) in a proxy war to fight the Assad regime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abCkOe5KGxI
Had Assad been overthrown, Syria would literally be run by terrorists right now. Great plan, Obama administration. These guys literally were the stupidest people in the room. And they are back in charge baby.
None of this has anything to do with Tow wanting to fight the Russians in Ukraine, because he believes Russia is the enemy of freedom, democracy, and human rights. That's his opinion of course, but he's putting his life on the line for it. Everything else you posted is... well, completely irrelevant.
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The whole world is calling his bluff. We dont need to escalate things to get results. Putin is doing this all by himself. This will be over in a few months and when it is Putin will be seen as the real loser.
Putin attacking Ukraine to me is very similar to the blunder Hitler committed by invading Russia.
Their ego led them to a huge miscalculation in their military ability. and their foe's resolve.
calling his bluff would be putting US/NATO troops on the ground, setting up no fly zones and directly engaging in war with Putin.
They aren't doing that. Yet. Thank god. Doesn't mean they won't. Russia has zero shot in a direct fight with the US. Zero. US war machine is the most deadly and destructive and powerful war machine the world has ever known. It can't be seen by Russia. If the guy is backed into a corner and US war machine starts hammering his ass every which way- who knows wtf he might do. What if he decides f**k it, nukes are my only option? Who would be willing to take that risk? It's just too great a risk.
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you're probably right, but I don't doubt for a second that even still they are 1000x tougher and more built to withstand hardship than modern Americans. We are the weakest, whiniest, laziest, bunch of soft little sissy bitches in the entire world.
Irrelevant self-loathing. No need to respond any further than that.
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Goldman Sachs is still making coin trading Russian debt- story just broke about it. And they want stop either. You can bet your ass on that. But if foreign investment leaves and do so permanently, could be more than a 30 year set back for Russia.
But, Putin is probably going to die soon. Statistically speaking that is. He's already 70. How much longer does he really have to live and rule the country? Maybe the next guy isn't as big a prick?
Goldman Sachs (GS) to Exit Russia in Wall Street’s First Pullout - Bloomberg
(https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-10/goldman-sachs-to-exit-russia-in-wall-street-s-first-pullout)US life expectancy for a 70 year old male is nearly 13 years. Putin is probably in that range given his access to health care, he's not obese, and he apparently exercises.
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Goldman Sachs (GS) to Exit Russia in Wall Street’s First Pullout - Bloomberg
(https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-10/goldman-sachs-to-exit-russia-in-wall-street-s-first-pullout)US life expectancy for a 70 year old male is nearly 13 years. Putin is probably in that range given his access to health care, he's not obese, and he apparently exercises.
yeah, that's just PR bullsh*t. they're still trading heavy on Russian corporate debt.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/goldman-sachs-profits-ukraine-war-loophole-sanctions-rcna19584
https://www.axios.com/goldman-sachs-david-solomon-isolating-russia-e7db1d56-b46f-446e-b89e-93220b14468e.html
https://www.mic.com/impact/goldman-sachs-russia-ukraine-debt
Goldman Sachs CEO: Isolating Russia is "not our job"
(https://www.axios.com/authors/ngarfinkel)
as far life expectancy goes, sure he might live another 13 years- but will he rule for all those 13 years? at some point he'll start to deteriorate or lose interest and step down.
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(https://www.axios.com/authors/ngarfinkel)
as far life expectancy goes, sure he might live another 13 years- but will he rule for all those 13 years? at some point he'll start to deteriorate or lose interest and step down.
then he can run for office in the US
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https://twitter.com/AlexandruC4/status/1503142677503692803?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1503142677503692803%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAlexandruC4%2Fstatus%2F1503142677503692803%3Fs%3D2026t%3DlR4T-d14j2nAbDjVbuJ-hw
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then he can run for office in the US
yeah....but does he like ice cream? and what's his favorite flavor?
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There is nothing illegal about brokering Russian debt trades. In fact, the Biden administration gave investment firms a green light to trade in Russian assets.
If GS thinks Russian debt is worth buying now, that's on them. And they could end up with a pile of worthless notes. It's risky, they probably are hedging the bet.
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then he can run for office in the US
That's some funny shit right there.
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I am still struck by how this thing has apparently devolved into some kind of stalemate. Russian forces seem to have little strategy for isolating Ukrainian resistance and cutting supply lines, and the news day after day is mostly the same. The markets can't seem to figure it out either, duh.
Maybe it's the mud, maybe it's poor morale and training, maybe the Ukrainians are just well equipped for defensive purposes, maybe it's tough to take larger cities ...
I suspect some combination of the above. In WW Two, Zhukov would be relieving commanders right and left and throwing more troops at whoever appeared to be making some progress.
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The Ukrainians have obviously watched "Enemy at the Gates" Putin obviously has not:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IQJY5SsJ64
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The new announcement of COVID lockdowns likely has a lot to do with it, but they've had lockdowns off and on over the past 2 years, including even stricter ones than this in early 2020, and it still didn't tank their market like this has. I have no doubt fear of China supporting Russia is affecting the outlook for their stocks right now.
https://twitter.com/ASLuhn/status/1503389640862179334?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1503389640862179334%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FASLuhn%2Fstatus%2F1503389640862179334
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There is nothing illegal about brokering Russian debt trades. In fact, the Biden administration gave investment firms a green light to trade in Russian assets.
If GS thinks Russian debt is worth buying now, that's on them. And they could end up with a pile of worthless notes. It's risky, they probably are hedging the bet.
yeah, I never said anything about it being illegal. I said the idea Goldman Sachs are "completely exiting Russia!" was just some woke PR bullshit they were using to score public brownie points. They aren't out of Russia. They are still making that money money....monnnnnaaaay in Russia brokering Russian gov't and corporate debt.
it's risky, cause who knows how this ends, but might not be a bad play to make that monnnnnaaaay.
like Buffett always said though, be scared when people are greedy, and be greedy when people are scared.
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The new announcement of COVID lockdowns likely has a lot to do with it, but they've had lockdowns off and on over the past 2 years, including even stricter ones than this in early 2020, and it still didn't tank their market like this has. I have no doubt fear of China supporting Russia is affecting the outlook for their stocks right now.
https://twitter.com/ASLuhn/status/1503389640862179334?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1503389640862179334%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FASLuhn%2Fstatus%2F1503389640862179334
serious question here, you're very knowledgeable about China- would it even be possible to sanction the crap out of China? seems like we are way to interlinked/dependent on China. wouldn't sanctioning the crap out of China probably just tank the economy here?
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Elon Musks challenges Putin to single combat. Winner takes Ukraine.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/03/14/elon-musk-putin-fight-ukraine/7036541001/
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serious question here, you're very knowledgeable about China- would it even be possible to sanction the crap out of China? seems like we are way to interlinked/dependent on China. wouldn't sanctioning the crap out of China probably just tank the economy here?
IMO, yes, you're exactly right about this. I don't think there's much we can do, in the short term. We're just far too deep to avoid significant amounts of fallout.
But it goes both ways. They can't just abuse the US and the West, either. They've spent more than a half-century waging this economic war against us, but for it to work, for them to master us, they still must be able to sell into our markets.
For better or worse, we're inextricably linked.
I will say there are many VERY large American companies that have updated their approach to Risk Analysis over the past two years, especially as it relates to their critical supply chains. Moves are underway from a lot of these companies to reduce their reliance on China. It'll take years to dig out from underneath it all, but it hasn't gone unnoticed.
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this economics professor had a pretty clever idea to try to help end this war...have EU agree to pay Russian deserters $100,000 a pop and give them residency/citizenship in EU states. Russia already kinda sucked for your average person before that economy got sanctioned into the Stone Age. With the sanctions and the economy tanking? Man, it's got to really suck now.
I bet a lot of Russian soldiers would be tempted to take that offer. Get $100k and live in a much better country and not have to fight in a war that many of them probably didn't even want in the first place. Lot of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers in Ukraine, they have a shared history and are East Slavs- probably has to be a little bit weird to a lot of them to even be fighting there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNtbW-LaedE
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I think it's a great idea, only hesitation is, if Mother Russia can track the deserters and then punish their families that remain in-country.
But for at least some portion of their soldiers, it would probably work.
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They'd mostly have family in Russia they would not want to leave to the tender mercies.
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I bet they'd do it for $10,000.
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(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/03/918/516/cartoon-031422.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
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Saudi Arabian dude who is most likely a prince or a butt-buddy of a prince and is getting funding from a prince- has made an offer to buy Chelsea Football Club for $3.5 billion from Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich. Russia oligarch: BAD. Saudi oligarch: GOOOOD.
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This is really funny
https://americanwirenews.com/russian-warship-go-fk-yourself-new-ukrainian-postal-stamp-captures-countrys-fierce-defiance/?utm_medium=newsletter&utm_source=Get%20response&utm_term=email&utm_content=3-14-22%20JSM%20PM&utm_campaign=james
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https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1503477336645279757?s=20&t=Nw8hIh6r0gLELcJOfnMJIQ
https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1503477721929818115?s=20&t=Nw8hIh6r0gLELcJOfnMJIQ
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Our media and govt also would have made her life a living hell, if she went against their leftist globalist narrative during a live broadcast.
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Our media and govt also would have made her life a living hell, if she went against their leftist globalist narrative during a live broadcast.
someone like that would just get made fun of or dismissed here. maybe harassed a bit. Over there? sheesh....jailed, or worse.
although I will say, US treatment of and it's war on whistle blowers (starting since the Obama administration) and publishers like Julian Assange is extremely worrisome.
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this guy just consistently bringing the comedy...
https://twitter.com/ryanlongcomedy/status/1503388235967475717?s=20&t=FWwkZKyxfzMC8fD5PEIM-g
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someone like that would just get made fun of or dismissed here. maybe harassed a bit. Over there? sheesh....jailed, or worse.
although I will say, US treatment of and it's war on whistle blowers (starting since the Obama administration) and publishers like Julian Assange is extremely worrisome.
At the very least they would get "cancelled" by the woke twitter mob/Fro types; lose their job and have their name dragged through the mud in the media for a week. Depending on what it was, they might also unleash the FBI on them and charge them with some nonsense crime in order to publicly humiliate them by running them through the courts.
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how are stupid people like this in Congress?
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1503085957427478528?s=20&t=FWwkZKyxfzMC8fD5PEIM-g
https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1503086714117668870?s=20&t=FWwkZKyxfzMC8fD5PEIM-g
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They'd be a hero to some, not to others, and life would go on. Folks get upset when every little thing isn't said the way they want it said.
So, how does this all end? I read one piece that Russia is about to run short of munitions, which is possible I suppose. No doubt they can draw on other depots more distant from the theater for a while, but that takes rolling stock away from other missions. I doubt they asked China for "aid", I don't know how that would work, they might have asked for China to buy more stuff.
The most likely end I see involves Ukraine losing territory, disavowing NATO, and getting some kind of security agreement from Putin (worth whatever). Ukraine would be effectively crippled with a lot of damage and a very weak economy. Russia could claim something and spin it.
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They'd be a hero to some, not to others, and life would go on. Folks get upset when every little thing isn't said the way they want it said.
So, how does this all end? I read one piece that Russia is about to run short of munitions, which is possible I suppose. No doubt they can draw on other depots more distant from the theater for a while, but that takes rolling stock away from other missions. I doubt they asked China for "aid", I don't know how that would work, they might have asked for China to buy more stuff.
The most likely end I see involves Ukraine losing territory, disavowing NATO, and getting some kind of security agreement from Putin (worth whatever). Ukraine would be effectively crippled with a lot of damage and a very weak economy. Russia could claim something and spin it.
I think you are right on all fronts.
Zelenskyy has already floated/signaled he's willing to abandon the push for NATO.
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From 2019:
Why care about Ukraine and the Budapest Memorandum (brookings.edu) (https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2019/12/05/why-care-about-ukraine-and-the-budapest-memorandum/)
In the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, the United States, Russia, and Britain committed “to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine” and “to refrain from the threat or use of force” against the country. Those assurances played a key role in persuading the Ukrainian government in Kyiv to give up what amounted to the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal, consisting of some 1,900 strategic nuclear warheads.
The apparent fact none of the scattered nukes ended up in very bad hands is rather remarkable, to me. To respect the independence of Ukraine meant respecting their wishes to join NATO, water over the dam.
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WTI has dropped under $96 this morning already. That is a large drop over the past week or so, it crested $130 briefly. Traders must be thinking this is not as big a deal as feared. Or perhaps it is COVID fears again?
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MUNITIONS - Thermobaric Munitions and their Medical Effects! - JMVH (https://jmvh.org/article/munitions-thermobaric-munitions-and-their-medical-effects/)
Thennobaric munitions are those weapons that are designed to produce enhanced temperature and pressure compared to conventional explosives and are often referred to as fuel-air explosives (FAEs). They produce a much greater incidence of primary blast injury than conventional explosives and this is their main mechanism of injury
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War in Ukraine live updates: Russian airstrikes pound Kyiv as European leaders visit | NPR (https://www.npr.org/live-updates/ukraine-kyiv-russian-air-strikes-03-15-2022#a-russian-editor-protested-the-war-on-live-tv-and-was-immediately-arrested)
A Russian woman who burst onto the set of a live TV news broadcast to protest Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is under arrest and is the subject of “a pre-investigation check,” according to state-run Tass media.
The woman, Marina Ovsyannikova, is an editor at Channel One; she protested the war by walking behind a news anchor while holding a sign reading “No War” and telling viewers they were being lied to. It also said, “Russians for peace.”
The website OVD-info, which monitors rights abuses in Russia, shared a video (https://twitter.com/OvdInfo/status/1503470185696669701) Ovsyannikova recorded a video before taking action. In it, she said she was ashamed for her role in helping spread Kremlin propaganda.
“I’m embarrassed for letting them tell lies from the TV screen. I'm ashamed that I allowed them to zombify Russian people,” Ovsyannikova said, according to a translation by OVD-info.
Ukrainians were never Russia’s enemies, she said, stating that her father is Ukrainian and her mother is Russian. She urged more people to protest the invasion.
“What’s happening in Ukraine right now is a true crime. And Russia is the aggressor,” she said. “And the responsibility for this crime lies only on the conscience of one person, and that person is Vladimir Putin.”
Ovsyannikova’s protest was quickly hailed as an act of courage, as it immediately led to her arrest.
Russia’s federal Investigative Committee is now handling her case; any charges against her could stem from Russia's newly adopted laws making it a crime to spread what the Russian government deems "fake news" about its military.
Ovsyannikova’s whereabouts are in question: The website Meduza (https://meduza.io/feature/2022/03/14/sotrudnitsa-pervogo-kanala-vorvalas-v-efir-programmy-vremya-s-prizyvom-ostanovit-voynu-s-ukrainoy-ee-zaderzhali) said she was located at the TV station, but defense lawyers were not allowed to see her. But the OVD-info site says her current location isn't known.
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The phrase "a preinvestigation check" sounds quite Orwellian to me. We've always been at war with Ukraine.
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MUNITIONS - Thermobaric Munitions and their Medical Effects! - JMVH (https://jmvh.org/article/munitions-thermobaric-munitions-and-their-medical-effects/)
Thennobaric munitions are those weapons that are designed to produce enhanced temperature and pressure compared to conventional explosives and are often referred to as fuel-air explosives (FAEs). They produce a much greater incidence of primary blast injury than conventional explosives and this is their main mechanism of injury
what’s worse, thermobaric munitions or depleted uranium ones?
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WTI has dropped under $96 this morning already. That is a large drop over the past week or so, it crested $130 briefly. Traders must be thinking this is not as big a deal as feared. Or perhaps it is COVID fears again?
Could be. Could also be it’s a sign that only the US is going to ban Russian oil. I don’t think any other nation has decided to do so. EU, South Korea, and Japan still buying Russian oil.
US headlines may have cause reactions and fears and panic those may be cooling off now.
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Australia to join US and UK in banning Russian oil imports | Australia news | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/11/australia-to-join-us-and-uk-in-banning-russian-oil-imports)
A move of this sort can be the result of a short squeeze.
The Russian oil is still going to find markets. Most of Europe has few good options. I'd guess Norway hasn't banned it because they don't need it.
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what’s worse, thermobaric munitions or depleted uranium ones?
Relatively speaking, neither is "worse" when used for its intended purpose in a military vs. military engagement.
But thermobaric weapons can be used-- and are being used-- for the wholesale slaughter of civilians. This is something that almost every nation on earth considers to be barbaric and unacceptable.
Depleted uranium weapons are designed specifically to pierce military armor, and would be a waste if used on soft civilian targets.
So really, there's not any reason to compare the two.
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UK has phased out, not banned. They’ll still be buying until next year. I think UK and US account for 1.2-1.3% each of total Russian oil exports. Australia isn’t even at 1%, it’s less.
Australia has a population barely above Florida, and they aren’t a serious buyer of Russian oil.
UK is a phase out and Australia not buying isn’t going to make a dent at all.
That’s a good thing for gas prices if it holds to just these 3.
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NETWORK ROUNDUP: EU split on Russian oil and gas ban – EURACTIV.com (https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/network-roundup-eu-split-on-russian-oil-and-gas-ban/)
I suspect there is a realization that this war is going to drag on for a while with not much appearing to happen, and folks will "negotiate", and life elsewhere will be largely unaffected. One can hope anyway. The media tend to get hysterical about possibilities, and then those dampen out if/when reality seems to be less breathless.
I'm sure a lot of companies that use a lot of oil have bought futures contracts and are insulated for a while. Airlines often do this, at times they get burned.
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I'd opine FAEs, the thermobarics, have a much greater initial "impact" and effect, residual depleted uranium shells could have a longer term lingering impact. As noted, the former can be used against civilians and civilian infrastructure. The latter is pretty much only useful against military armored vehicles.
Volatility remains, as investors continue to monitor geopolitical headlines with the Russia/Ukraine conflict in its third week. Hopes of a diplomatic resolution have increased, as the two countries are set to meet for the second straight day today. Prior to this week's meetings, officials on both sides were upbeat over the weekend about the upcoming talks. So far, negotiations have ended without any progress on a ceasefire, and reports of Russia intensifying its invasion have dominated the news. The U.S. and other global allies have levied crippling financial sanctions, including an unprecedented move to handcuff the country's central bank, and the U.S. and U.K. have banned the imports of Russian energy. Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve's monetary policy meeting looms on the week's horizon, with uncertainty of how aggressive the central bank will be in what is expected to be the initiation of a tightening campaign, as the conflict in eastern Europe has added a new variable to the equation.
The bond market has been just as volatile, with Treasury prices taking a break today from a five-session fall that saw yields rise and pare the rally seen in early March. Meanwhile, the U.S. dollar remains elevated, along with gold, although both are paring back this morning, and crude oil prices are tumbling for the second-straight day, pulling back from a surge last week to highs not seen since 2008.
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This is good, if true.
Putin's forces may only be able to keep up the fight for another 14 days, defence sources say | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10613069/Putins-forces-able-fight-14-days-military-experts-say.html)
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This is good, if true.
Putin's forces may only be able to keep up the fight for another 14 days, defence sources say | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10613069/Putins-forces-able-fight-14-days-military-experts-say.html)
Your mouth to god’s ears.
Now, if someone can throw that psycho out on his ass and install someone with less grandiose visions, that’d be super. (Also real democracy, but I’d settle for that for now)
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Hope springs eternal.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXdzAZvid0E
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https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/status/1503661586812133377?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1503661586812133377%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FDarthPutinKGB%2Fstatus%2F1503661586812133377
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Interesting thoughts from economist David Friedman (son of Milton)...
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/2022/03/thoughts-on-ukraine.html
While Russia might still be able to win the military conflict, it looks to me as though their strategy now depends on besieging Ukrainian cities in order to threaten to starve the population in the hope that that will force the Ukrainian government to make substantial concessions.
If my interpretation of the situation is correct, Putin now knows that the invasion was a mistake. The problem is that saying so and withdrawing make him look very bad, possibly resulting in his fall from power. At the same time, if it becomes clear that Russia cannot win, that the most it can do is to destroy a lot more Ukrainian property and kill a lot more Ukrainians, Zelinsky will be reluctant to agree to any terms that make it look as though Russia had gained something by the invasion. That raises the question of whether there is any agreement that would let both sides claim to their own people to have won.
Hence my suggested terms, conditional on its being reasonably clear that Russia cannot win a military victory:
Both sides agree to referenda in the Crimea and the Donbass region, conducted by a neutral party. If a majority in the Crimea vote to join Russia, Ukraine — and, presumably, other countries supporting it — agree to accept Russian annexation of Crimea. If a majority in Donbass vote for independence, Ukraine agrees to accept it. If, on the other hand, a majority in either region votes to be part of Ukraine, Russia agrees to accept that.
When the agreement is made, Putin can claim that of course Russia will win both referenda, hence getting the result it wants. Zelinsky can claim that he is agreeing not because of the Russian military threat but because Ukraine believes in democracy. The actual referendum happens after the Russian military has withdrawn from Ukraine, so if things don't go the way Putin wants he can complain that the referendum wasn't done properly but stop short of repeating the failed invasion. In fact, I expect Russia will win in Crimea, thus actually getting something it wants — international recognition of its seizure.
What happens in Donbass partly depends on whether the referendum is for the whole province or only the parts that have been under Russian and secessionist control. That is a high stakes gamble for both sides. A referendum in the whole province might result in Ukraine losing territory it has been controlling — but also might result in Russia losing territory it has been controlling, since the rest of the province may not be enthusiastically pro-Russian, especially after being invaded. Whichever way the referendum goes happens after the Russian army has left Ukraine, unlikely to return any time soon.
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Interesting thoughts from economist David Friedman (son of Milton)...
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/2022/03/thoughts-on-ukraine.html
not a bad suggestion.
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Russia talking about their sanctions they're going to enact against the US reminds me of this...
(https://i.imgur.com/q3Fvanm.png)
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this isn't brave, it's reckless and stupid. Why can't the PMs of Poland, Slovenia, and Czech Republic just you know, call or zoom Zelenskyy? They traveled by train into an active war zone- what happens if god forbid something catastrophic happened to them? World War III? Yeah, no thanks.
And again, showing how STUPID it was to continue to expand NATO and add insignificant nothing worthless countries- less than worthless countries really- that will always be insignificant nothing worthless countries- into NATO- and give them an Article V guarantee and pledge US treasure and blood to them. NATO which at the fall of the Soviet Union had 14 members- I believe. It now has 30. WHY?
https://twitter.com/Beaking_News/status/1503646643417190400?s=20&t=fLZjtVmhswmBxz1IVNWO-Q
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXdzAZvid0E
tuned out at him saying Trump was the worst President ever.
Guess he completely missed W, Obama, and the current guy.
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Zelenskyy says in a speech, Ukraine will not join NATO.
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1503851739044319237?s=20&t=fLZjtVmhswmBxz1IVNWO-Q
yeah, and you know who could've put the kibosh on this day one: US. NATO is our stupid little club. We own it. Instead they continue to give false hope, false promises, encourage them on, flood them with lethal arms, train their insane neo-nazi militias (sup Azov and C14) and then do nothing and sit back and watch and let them get wrecked by their much more powerful neighbor in the process- just to bleed said neighbor- and contain and push it out of Western Europe for once and all.
IF US tries their hand at diplomacy and tries to negotiate with Russia on the NATO topic, maybe this war gets avoided. We'll never know, because US simply put- flatly refused to negotiate.
God damn man, Professor Mearsheimer predicted this entire thing to a T back in 2015.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfk-qaqP2Ws
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXdzAZvid0E
Man that guy sucks.
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Man that guy sucks.
I agree with you. A lot.
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FWIW, he doesn't pander. He might be the most mainstream guy, either cable news or comedy news, who doesn't. I never watch him, I just see when people post clips, but I'll give him one thing. He's not just regurgitating what his audience wants him to tell them
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those are astounding numbers if true, wow...
https://twitter.com/anders_aslund/status/1503772250557849600?s=20&t=zDP-KjrDxYQrVdAKi5aq9w
Let's hope it's true...
https://twitter.com/anders_aslund/status/1503767361198952456?s=20&t=zDP-KjrDxYQrVdAKi5aq9w
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FWIW, he doesn't pander. He might be the most mainstream guy, either cable news or comedy news, who doesn't. I never watch him, I just see when people post clips, but I'll give him one thing. He's not just regurgitating what his audience wants him to tell them
well that's certainly true, he's pretty much always himself, a whiny douche. Okaaaay, peeeepul.
And that's very true about his mostly brain dead audience- I've seen him tell them to shut up or f**k off before. I admire him for that.
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those are astounding numbers if true, wow...
https://twitter.com/anders_aslund/status/1503772250557849600?s=20&t=zDP-KjrDxYQrVdAKi5aq9w
Let's hope it's true...
https://twitter.com/anders_aslund/status/1503767361198952456?s=20&t=zDP-KjrDxYQrVdAKi5aq9w
That's been the Russian war strategy for centuries. Just keep throwing numbers into the meat grinder
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well that's certainly true, he's pretty much always himself, a whiny douche. Okaaaay, peeeepul.
And that's very true about his mostly brain dead audience- I've seen him tell them to shut up or f**k off before. I admire him for that.
His audience is himself, and his friends. I mean he must be getting ratings to still be on, but I don't know who. My uncle loves him. He is a nearly 70-year-old Democrat. I guess that's it, he appeals to the old left, which is now the moderate left? The right still hates him, the left now hates him
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7hOpT0lPGI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js-CxhYO590
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqZqfTOxFhY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftCcMjXPpII
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this isn't brave, it's reckless and stupid. Why can't the PMs of Poland, Slovenia, and Czech Republic just you know, call or zoom Zelenskyy? They traveled by train into an active war zone- what happens if god forbid something catastrophic happened to them? World War III? Yeah, no thanks.
And again, showing how STUPID it was to continue to expand NATO and add insignificant nothing worthless countries- less than worthless countries really- that will always be insignificant nothing worthless countries- into NATO- and give them an Article V guarantee and pledge US treasure and blood to them. NATO which at the fall of the Soviet Union had 14 members- I believe. It now has 30. WHY?
https://twitter.com/Beaking_News/status/1503646643417190400?s=20&t=fLZjtVmhswmBxz1IVNWO-Q
I disagree. The Baltic states are not nothing countries. Ukraine has shown itself to be a country. The Eastern bloc countries have been solid additions. There have been no wars on their soil. These countries have to be countries with stable constitutional systems.
If only large states joined, small state democracies would be swallowed up by neighboring authoritarian states, and the world would be back where it was in the 1800s, and 1900s. NATO helps preserve member states, and world peace. Putin did not attack a NATO country. If he attacks a NATO country he risks annihilation of his person and his state.
Without NATO Eastern European countries were under constant threat of Soviet/Russian aggression. In 1968 5,000 tanks and 200,000 Warsaw Pact troops invaded Czechoslovakia to crush a brief period of liberalization in the then communist country. Like Ukraine, Czechoslovakia was not a NATO member.
The NATO alliance, for its member states, stabilized a continent, brought peace, and accompanying economic development to states that were vulnerable to attach from others over centuries. If Ukraine had been a stable democracy before Putin gained power and were a NATO member, this war wouldn't be happening.
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FWIW, he doesn't pander. He might be the most mainstream guy, either cable news or comedy news, who doesn't. I never watch him, I just see when people post clips, but I'll give him one thing. He's not just regurgitating what his audience wants him to tell them
And people hear him say something they disagree with and say he sucks......except we need a lot more people like him talking to us on TV.
Whether Trump was the worst president ever or not, it doesn't matter. He was a garbage human being dipshit game show host. Great resume.
But just because he holds that opinion doesn't mean he's far-left, as you explained.
If there were 20 Bill Maherrs on TV instead of 1, the political climate would be astronomically better.
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The US should trade Turkey Patriots for it's new shiny Russian S400 SAMs and send them to Ukraine.
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If there were 20 Bill Maherrs on TV instead of 1, the political climate would be astronomically better.
I don't think so, at all. Maher has a small audience, twenty of him would have a small audience, largely preaching to the choir. The only time I hear anything from him is when someone posts some clip on social media, and I skip most of them, not that I represent a large portion of the population, but I suspect most are the same.
I see a problem when "we" get information and opinion from what I consider to be entertainers on TV.
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The "news" today, I should say speculation, if Ukraine and Russia are a bit closer to some deal, probably as outlined here previously. Ukraine may dig in for a better deal thinking Russia is suffering economically now and their military isn't apparently doing much more than damaging civilian infrastructure.
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I don't think I'm wrong that this is essentially the first large-scale conflict between militaries equipped with truly modern weapons, and it feels rather Spanish Civil War-ish in the sense that modern militaries are getting a real-time lesson in what works and what doesn't in the modern arsenal.
As a former air defender (e.g., surface to air missile soldier), there is a lot about what is happening in Ukraine that is fascinating. While my knowledge is dated, at one time I knew quite a bit about how the air and ground wars interact.
Though brief and unfolding on a smaller scale, the Falkland’s War in 1982 between the UK and Argentina has served as an intense conflict of study by fascinated military experts and historians for several reasons.
For one, both sides possessed and used sophisticated weaponry against each other. It’s the first instance of a modern nuclear-powered submarine using its weaponry to sink another Navy Ship in open ocean conflict. In response, Argentina’s Air Force used advanced Exocet missiles to sink a British destroyer.
The conflict also offers a rare modern example of an amphibious invasion coordinated between Naval Surface, Naval Air, and Royal Marine Forces. Of particular emphasis of study is the British use of a Carrier Strike Group in which the Carrier is protected from sea and air threats by formations of Destroyers and Frigates. This is similarly how the U.S. Navy still projects sea power with their Carriers.
Though looked back as an oddity, like a freak accident between two unlikely opponents in an otherwise quiet corner of the world, the Falklands War became a point of reference for the U.S. Navy’s preparations for rotating Carrier strike groups into the Gulf of Aden and Persian Gulf during both Iraq Wars.
Anyway, back to Ukraine. Wouldn’t at all mind hearing, from your experience, any insider observations you might have regarding the news you’ve seen from Ukraine.
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And people hear him say something they disagree with and say he sucks......except we need a lot more people like him talking to us on TV.
Whether Trump was the worst president ever or not, it doesn't matter. He was a garbage human being dipshit game show host. Great resume.
But just because he holds that opinion doesn't mean he's far-left, as you explained.
If there were 20 Bill Maherrs on TV instead of 1, the political climate would be astronomically better.
24/7
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Anyway, back to Ukraine. Wouldn’t at all mind hearing, from your experience, any insider observations you might have regarding the news you’ve seen from Ukraine.
Agree. Insights like that would be far more interesting than discussing the idea of... perish the thought... TWENTY Bill Mahers! :)
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I'm not sure where I'd break a point of calling something fought with "truly modern weapons". A main shift here is that the defense has modern defensive weapons and has held off superior armored and air components pretty well. Tactics tend to oscillate between offense and defense (sound familiar?).
I'm sure folks will be reevaluating their armored components after this. Iraq did not have much anti-tank capability in 1990 and the battles were "in the open". Javelins have to be a fearsome weapon for any tanker fighting in any built up or wooded terrain.
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I'm not sure where I'd break a point of calling something fought with "truly modern weapons". A main shift here is that the defense has modern defensive weapons and has held off superior armored and air components pretty well. Tactics tend to oscillate between offense and defense (sound familiar?).
I'm sure folks will be reevaluating their armored components after this. Iraq did not have much anti-tank capability in 1990 and the battles were "in the open". Javelins have to be a fearsome weapon for any tanker fighting in any built up or wooded terrain.
a huge factor is also the Russians are not being led very well, they are inexperienced and moral appears to be low
while the Ukrainians appear to be totally committed with their heart to defend their homeland
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That is a huge factor, but I think without these precision munitions, it wouldn't matter nearly as much. I'm trying to think of the last major conflict where both sides were highly motivated with good morale. Often only one side is really motivated, and it matters.
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Whether Trump was the worst president ever or not, it doesn't matter. He was a garbage human being dipshit game show host. Great resume.
But just because he holds that opinion doesn't mean he's far-left, as you explained.
I don't really care if Trump was a garbage human- his personal life is completely uninteresting to me. Him ripping off people in business- don't really care nor is it relevant to this discussion. However, as a President- it's just factually wrong to claim the guy was the worst President ever. W was MILES worse. He's one of the only Presidents in recent US history that actually kept us out of starting new wars. He deserves some props for that. And without him pushing to withdraw from Afghanistan- does that war ever end? I don't think so.
And I never called Maher far left. I actually like him sometimes. He's just such a whiny doucher. The OKAAAAAY PEEEEPUL stuff is soooooo annnnnoying.
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I disagree. The Baltic states are not nothing countries. Ukraine has shown itself to be a country. The Eastern bloc countries have been solid additions. There have been no wars on their soil. These countries have to be countries with stable constitutional systems.
If only large states joined, small state democracies would be swallowed up by neighboring authoritarian states, and the world would be back where it was in the 1800s, and 1900s. NATO helps preserve member states, and world peace. Putin did not attack a NATO country. If he attacks a NATO country he risks annihilation of his person and his state.
Without NATO Eastern European countries were under constant threat of Soviet/Russian aggression. In 1968 5,000 tanks and 200,000 Warsaw Pact troops invaded Czechoslovakia to crush a brief period of liberalization in the then communist country. Like Ukraine, Czechoslovakia was not a NATO member.
The NATO alliance, for its member states, stabilized a continent, brought peace, and accompanying economic development to states that were vulnerable to attach from others over centuries. If Ukraine had been a stable democracy before Putin gained power and were a NATO member, this war wouldn't be happening.
USSR and Warsaw Pact has been dead for 31 years. People really need to stop bringing it up.
And yes, those countries to the United States- are nothing, worthless, meaningless, insignificant countries. They add zero value to the US. They are of zero strategic interest to the US. Do we share a border with any of them? Oh why no, they are all halfway around the world from us. Do they control massive quantities of natural resources that the US needs/wants like Saudi Arabia? Why no. They don't. Are they massive trading partners with US like say China? Why no, they aren't.
Ukraine has never been a stable democracy. That is the dumbest what if I've ever heard. It's been an independent country since 1991, and it is literally one of the most corrupt countries on planet earth and has been for 30+ years going. And it still is. It's current President that everyone seems to be stanning over has close ties to one of the richest oligarchs in Ukraine- and his name was all over the leaked Pandora Papers- which proved beyond a shadow of a doubt he took payoffs from said oligarch and stashed tens of millions of dollars offshore to avoid tax. Said President has also banned media networks he doesn't like and has imprisoned political opponents without due process. And since 2014 Ukraine has effectively been a US colony that the US has largely controlled by dangling money and weapons over there head in order to get them to comply with US wishes/demands.
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Bill Maher's opinion of Trump has nothing to do with Ukraine. Please take it somewhere else.
Thank You For Your Support
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We're scheduled to visit Estonia on our cruise. The dropped Finland for some reason.
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We're scheduled to visit Estonia on our cruise. The dropped Finland for some reason.
Finland is a little worried right now.
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Finland hates them some Russia and is itching to kill some Russians.
If they hadn't canceled that port, I'd be switching cruise destinations anyway.
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One of the surprises in the speech was Zelensky’s call for a new international body.
He suggested it should be called “U24” or “United for Peace” and would, in theory, act to stop conflicts immediately.
Whatever the desirability of such an idea, there is no real chance of it being created amid the current crisis, when there is plenty of other international activity going on. Biden is headed to Brussels next week for an extraordinary meeting of NATO members. He will also meet European Union leaders while overseas.
But Zelensky’s proposal may have had another purpose: It distracted from any new scrutiny on the central issue of whether Ukraine could join NATO in the medium-term.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7hOpT0lPGI
So we needed a brainiac from the Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences at the University of Colorado-Boulder giving a TED TALK tipping us off that Nuclear War is bad,VERY BAD.Thanx for that incredible bit of insightful information I'm sure kamela will let Sleepy Joe know when she's done deleting her tweets
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So we needed a brainiac from the Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences at the University of Colorado-Boulder giving a TED TALK tipping us off that Nuclear War is bad,VERY BAD.Thanx for that incredible bit of insightful information I'm sure kamela will let Sleepy Joe know when she's done deleting her tweets
It’s TEDx, which means a lot of quacks get their day.
Of course, we gotta stop building up quacks by sharing their stuff.
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Finland hates them some Russia and is itching to kill some Russians.
If they hadn't canceled that port, I'd be switching cruise destinations anyway.
The stories of the WWII era Russian invasion of Finland are legendary. Quick skiers dart past, toss a grenade in a tank, quietly slip away.
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It’s TEDx, which means a lot of quacks get their day.
Of course, we gotta stop building up quacks by sharing their stuff.
Thanx for that incredible bit of insightful information ;D
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https://twitter.com/ConanOBrien/status/1504162493186424837?t=itCc57Fuzw1Jk8_q_g98Wg&s=19
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One minor point about the no-fly zone that people seem inclined to impose. Based on my understanding of how we (and NATO) conduct an air war, we won't send our planes into a contested space without free license to destroy enemy air defense systems, e.g., your active radar paints my plane, I'm shoving an anti-radiation missile down your throat. The NATO/US approach to an air war is to start with SEAD (suppression of enemy air defense). The way that typically works is before hostilities begin, you fly to your border with the opponent, and you look for where you pick up radar and other attention to try to identify as much as possible about the air defense network in advance. When hostilities start, your first missions are sending decoys, whose purpose is to get air defense systems to engage them, followed by attack planes, focused on destroying those systems that identify themselves. With Ukraine, there's probably already a decent knowledge of where the long-range air defense systems are (they tend to be more fixed because longer range missiles require larger motors--i.e., they are bigger and hence less mobile). Some of them are likely in Belarus and Russia. But many (most) of these systems are mobile--including systems with a range of 40km or more--and are operating within Ukraine.
So, a huge tactical problem with the proposed no-fly zone is that it will instantly result in attacks on Russian forces on the ground. As a result, the proposed no-fly zone over Ukraine poses serious problems. To start with, there is no way we would tell our pilots not to shoot back at air defense systems that engage them from within Ukraine. We couldn't even avoid that in the Iraq war, when we had total air supremacy, and had already conducted effective suppression of Iraqi air defense assets. Even so, US pilots destroyed US air defense assets that made the mistake of feinting an active radar engagement. So, in Ukraine, the first time a SAM launches (or feints a launch) at a NATO plane, that plane goes from "enforcing the no-fly zone" to attacking Russian ground forces. Not a great recipe for avoiding escalation of this war. We know the Russians have many, many air defense systems in their invasion force.
Making matters worse, Russian air defense systems in Belarus and Russia are capable of (and almost certainly are) defending skies over Ukraine, so in addition to the question of a NATO jet shooting down a Russian in Ukrainian air space or attacking Russian ground troops in Ukraine, we have the problem of NATO jets attacking the air defense systems in Belarus and Russia. Again, there are no practical ways to avoid that, unless we tell our pilots not to worry about the surface to air missile system that is targeting them. Not going to happen (nor should it--imagine explaining to a pilot's family that he or she died because we told them to fly in an area rich with surface to air missiles, but that they couldn't defend themselves from those missiles).
This also raises a technical/tactical problem with the supply of additional Russian-made fighters to Ukraine (the infamous Polish Mig 29s). In the first instance--as probably everyone here knows--Ukraine already isn't using its air force to capacity. There are good reasons for that. First, they are big ticket items, so you don't want to send planes up to lose them unless you have a really good payoff for doing so. And the Russians have plenty of both air and air defense assets in Ukraine ready and willing to shoot down Ukrainian air assets. Second, in addition to the plentiful radar controlled air defense systems, which have a few safeguards to try to avoid friendly fire (which, honestly, aren't nearly as good as you'd like them to be--again, see the Iraq war for good examples), you have a lot of infrared guided missiles (all of the Stingers as well as similar Russian systems (SA-7 through SA-16). Those are visual targeting only: so look up and determine whether this is a bad guy plane. If you think it is, fire away. That's pretty straight forward if you fly F-15s, 16s, 18s, 22s, and 35s, and the bad guys fly Migs and SUs. It's a lot harder when everyone is flying the same thing. What is the air defense team with a Stinger looking for? The flag painted on the thing from 2+ kilometers away? Not a great plan. Sure, you would hope that Stinger team wouldn't shoot at the plane until it determines the plane is doing bad things, but good luck with that.
I'm amused when people talk about an A-10 attacking that 30 mile Russian convoy. Sure, such a convoy is a target rich environment for an attack pilot. But there is a very high likelihood that there is a lot of air defense guarding that convoy. So even for the A-10, which is more survivable than the Russian Su-25 (which is also pretty hearty), the chances of getting in any good attack runs before being blasted with SAMs is low. And PS, that's the reason that the Air Force doesn't love the A-10, and hasn't for a long time. In this kind of a war, it's very susceptible to modern air defense weapons. We're not in the era of crappy IR-guided rockets with small warheads, 20mm quad cannons, and radar countermeasures capable of defeating most SAMs. Modern radar guided missiles are tough to beat, particularly so with slow moving, high radar cross section planes like the A-10. Flying an attack plane at that convoy is very likely a suicide mission.
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Very insightful SF. Thanks for that.
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I don't think many in the West want a NFZ. Some do. I agree with your analysis of course, I think a partial NFZ could be established using ground based interceptors only, Patriots et al. Or as someone mentioned the S-400s Turkey acquired. Coupled with MANPADS, that could be a NFZ with some teeth, and without NATO personnel or pilots.
This would not require suppression of AA. It also would be short of a full deck. And of course missiles don't respect any NFZ in general.
I mused about the general idea of a limited NFZ over a small piece of western Ukraine "for humanitarian reasons". That's another part option. Declare a portion near Poland a sanctuary, not subject to attack, and set up refugee camps there.
Another sketchy notion is for Ukraine to cede this portion to Poland. That would get, well, noticed.
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https://twitter.com/ConanOBrien/status/1504162493186424837?t=itCc57Fuzw1Jk8_q_g98Wg&s=19
what could possibly go wrong? they totally didn't start a couple of world wars and commit the greatest genocide in human history, or anything.
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What's old is new again.
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One of the surprises in the speech was Zelensky’s call for a new international body.
He suggested it should be called “U24” or “United for Peace” and would, in theory, act to stop conflicts immediately.
Whatever the desirability of such an idea, there is no real chance of it being created amid the current crisis, when there is plenty of other international activity going on. Biden is headed to Brussels next week for an extraordinary meeting of NATO members. He will also meet European Union leaders while overseas.
But Zelensky’s proposal may have had another purpose: It distracted from any new scrutiny on the central issue of whether Ukraine could join NATO in the medium-term.
Never going to happen. US wouldn't ever agree to giving up their carte blanche on war. Their veto power as a permanent member of the UN security council gives them ability to do whatever they want. US refuses to even acknowledge the ICJ and ICC, they just laugh at it.
Great idea though. Not. TAKE SOME OF THIS PEACE AT THE END OF MY BARREL BITCH!
Zelenskyy just said yesterday or the day before in a recorded speech that Ukraine will not be joining NATO now. And he's been floating that idea for a week or so now. Faster he realizes this wasn't ever going to happen and he got played and abandons that silly pipe dream the faster this whole tragedy can end and less of his people will die.
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One minor point about the no-fly zone that people seem inclined to impose. Based on my understanding of how we (and NATO) conduct an air war, we won't send our planes into a contested space without free license to destroy enemy air defense systems, e.g., your active radar paints my plane, I'm shoving an anti-radiation missile down your throat. The NATO/US approach to an air war is to start with SEAD (suppression of enemy air defense). The way that typically works is before hostilities begin, you fly to your border with the opponent, and you look for where you pick up radar and other attention to try to identify as much as possible about the air defense network in advance. When hostilities start, your first missions are sending decoys, whose purpose is to get air defense systems to engage them, followed by attack planes, focused on destroying those systems that identify themselves. With Ukraine, there's probably already a decent knowledge of where the long-range air defense systems are (they tend to be more fixed because longer range missiles require larger motors--i.e., they are bigger and hence less mobile). Some of them are likely in Belarus and Russia. But many (most) of these systems are mobile--including systems with a range of 40km or more--and are operating within Ukraine.
So, a huge tactical problem with the proposed no-fly zone is that it will instantly result in attacks on Russian forces on the ground. As a result, the proposed no-fly zone over Ukraine poses serious problems. To start with, there is no way we would tell our pilots not to shoot back at air defense systems that engage them from within Ukraine. We couldn't even avoid that in the Iraq war, when we had total air supremacy, and had already conducted effective suppression of Iraqi air defense assets. Even so, US pilots destroyed US air defense assets that made the mistake of feinting an active radar engagement. So, in Ukraine, the first time a SAM launches (or feints a launch) at a NATO plane, that plane goes from "enforcing the no-fly zone" to attacking Russian ground forces. Not a great recipe for avoiding escalation of this war. We know the Russians have many, many air defense systems in their invasion force.
Making matters worse, Russian air defense systems in Belarus and Russia are capable of (and almost certainly are) defending skies over Ukraine, so in addition to the question of a NATO jet shooting down a Russian in Ukrainian air space or attacking Russian ground troops in Ukraine, we have the problem of NATO jets attacking the air defense systems in Belarus and Russia. Again, there are no practical ways to avoid that, unless we tell our pilots not to worry about the surface to air missile system that is targeting them. Not going to happen (nor should it--imagine explaining to a pilot's family that he or she died because we told them to fly in an area rich with surface to air missiles, but that they couldn't defend themselves from those missiles).
This also raises a technical/tactical problem with the supply of additional Russian-made fighters to Ukraine (the infamous Polish Mig 29s). In the first instance--as probably everyone here knows--Ukraine already isn't using its air force to capacity. There are good reasons for that. First, they are big ticket items, so you don't want to send planes up to lose them unless you have a really good payoff for doing so. And the Russians have plenty of both air and air defense assets in Ukraine ready and willing to shoot down Ukrainian air assets. Second, in addition to the plentiful radar controlled air defense systems, which have a few safeguards to try to avoid friendly fire (which, honestly, aren't nearly as good as you'd like them to be--again, see the Iraq war for good examples), you have a lot of infrared guided missiles (all of the Stingers as well as similar Russian systems (SA-7 through SA-16). Those are visual targeting only: so look up and determine whether this is a bad guy plane. If you think it is, fire away. That's pretty straight forward if you fly F-15s, 16s, 18s, 22s, and 35s, and the bad guys fly Migs and SUs. It's a lot harder when everyone is flying the same thing. What is the air defense team with a Stinger looking for? The flag painted on the thing from 2+ kilometers away? Not a great plan. Sure, you would hope that Stinger team wouldn't shoot at the plane until it determines the plane is doing bad things, but good luck with that.
I'm amused when people talk about an A-10 attacking that 30 mile Russian convoy. Sure, such a convoy is a target rich environment for an attack pilot. But there is a very high likelihood that there is a lot of air defense guarding that convoy. So even for the A-10, which is more survivable than the Russian Su-25 (which is also pretty hearty), the chances of getting in any good attack runs before being blasted with SAMs is low. And PS, that's the reason that the Air Force doesn't love the A-10, and hasn't for a long time. In this kind of a war, it's very susceptible to modern air defense weapons. We're not in the era of crappy IR-guided rockets with small warheads, 20mm quad cannons, and radar countermeasures capable of defeating most SAMs. Modern radar guided missiles are tough to beat, particularly so with slow moving, high radar cross section planes like the A-10. Flying an attack plane at that convoy is very likely a suicide mission.
best post in this entire thread. thanks for dropping the knowledge.
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I'm amazed at the idea of rules in war. This is a sanctuary, don't bomb the hospital, etc.
Why would an invading country give a damn about any of that? It's a war! I'm going to be as brutal as I'm willing to deal with in the aftermath. It's not good, but neither is war.
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I'm amazed at the idea of rules in war. This is a sanctuary, don't bomb the hospital, etc.
Why would an invading country give a damn about any of that? It's a war! I'm going to be as brutal as I'm willing to deal with in the aftermath. It's not good, but neither is war.
we like to pretend there are rules in war, but there are not. US bombs hospitals, residential areas, kills civilians too. Every country bombing or invading another country does.
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Everyone sure wastes a lot of time pretending that there are rules. And meetings and condemnations and all of it, all for nothing.
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I don't know a lot about the S-400, other than it is a very long range interceptor.
I know a lot about PATRIOT, at least up through the year 2000, and I doubt it has changed all that much since then. PATRIOT's unclassified range when I was operating it was 40 km. More recently public documents claim its range against air breathing targets (i.e., manned aircraft) is about 100 miles (that's the thing about actually operating a system; it's harder to keep its secrets). That's a pretty small part of Ukrainian airspace to defend from Poland.
Also, the longer a SAM is in the air, the easier it is to defeat. If my math is even close to accurate (it may not be), a fast-moving SAM traveling 100 miles is in the air for about a minute and a half, which is a long time for countermeasures. One of the cool things about PATRIOT, at least 25 years ago, was that its guidance system made it difficult for the aircraft to detect it until it was very close to impact (a few seconds away, at most). Thinking back to all the war movies you've watched (or flight simulator video games you've played) and think about that missile warning light that starts flashing at the pilot. Traditionally, that came from an "active" radar lock, e.g., a radar system that is focusing a beam on ("painting") your aircraft that the inbound SAM is tracking. PATRIOT didn't (and doesn't) work that way, which gave it a big advantage in air breathing engagements.
But with the improvements in radar technology across the globe (PATRIOT's radar was at the leading edge of this), I bet a lot of modern countermeasures are vastly improved. So rather than the plane relying on picking up the active radar signal that is targeting that plane, I would bet that radar networks now pass information to the aircraft informing it of an incoming missile. In the old days, missiles had small enough radar cross sections that most radars couldn't find them. Modern radars are way more precise and pick up much smaller objects. A SAM that has a large enough motor to travel 50+ miles is going to have a large enough cross section that modern radars will probably pick it up well in advance of its end-stage engagement--and pass that information to the pilots to take defensive measures. Again, at 100 miles away, with more than a minute for the pilot to react.
Aircraft also have shorter range missile detection that looks for the fast moving object and/or heat/UV signature, but those systems primarily rely on automatic countermeasures, e.g., flares or chaff that the pilot doesn't have to actively engage (largely because by the time those detectors trip, impact is potentially a second or less away). If you watch some of the combat footage of ground to air engagements coming out of Ukraine, in many instances where the helicopters and jets are deploying flares, it's probably because--at least in the first instance--those detectors picked something up and the aircraft's computers automatically spit the flares out. Especially against older short range, shoulder fired SAMS, like the SA-7 that Ukraine probably has a lot of, those flares can be pretty effective. The higher up the ladder of modern shoulder fired SAMS, to the most advanced Stingers, and probably the SA-16 (Russia's equivalent), the less effective those flares are.
With that in mind, it's very possible that the kill ratios will climb as Ukraine receives more Stingers from NATO. Most of the short range SAM engagements so far have probably been with the Russian systems, including the dated SA-7. Although, like with everything else, it will depend a little on the version of the Stinger that NATO sends. Just like Russia, we have a lot of old stock. (Way back when, when we did live fire training, we would burn off missiles that were approaching their expiration date, and often were older models).
One thing about the short range, shoulder fired missiles, the engagement time is very quick. It's not like the movies where the pilot has time to bank his plane away from it (PS that's also true of a lot of radar guided missile engagements--imagine that, Hollywood has taught you some misguided lessons). The Stinger missile travels at about 2,400 km/hr, and the overwhelming majority of engagements take place at about 2 km (or less), so launch to impact is less than a second (again, assuming my faulty math is close to right).
PS all of this has a lot to do with what you hear about the current generation of US fighter aircraft, particularly the F-35, and its performance against other fighter planes. A big thing to understand about the F-22 and F-35 is that they are reactions to radar technology as much as other aircraft. They aren't designed to outmaneuver an F-16 in a short-range dog fight (already the most maneuverable--and lowest tech--fighter in our arsenal). They are designed to engage from distance, while defeating enemy radar. One of the more amusing things about Top Gun (the movie) is that it focused on short range dog fighting in the F-14. Yes, the Navy trained on that, but the F-14's main purpose, from its infancy, was very long-range missile engagements using the Aim-54--the only long range air-to-air missile in our arsenal--not short range dog fighting. The F-14 was an interceptor (for bombers, really), not a classic "fighter;" and it was essentially designed for the Aim-54. The F-18 is more of a fighter aircraft, and a better dog fighter than the F-14, but--again--dog fighting isn't really its highest, best purpose.
So the Air Force is ready to move on from the F-16 (has been for a long time, actually) not because it isn't a great dog fighter--it is, probably still the best in our arsenal in short range situations--but because its survivability in the modern air war is low. Same for the A-10 example I provided above.
When talking with fighter pilots about how they train for air to air combat a great deal of it has to do with the physics and angles of missile launch. Although missiles travel very fast, they don't have a lot of lift in their ailerons, so can't turn very fast. Because missiles launched from nearby don't really give the pilot any time to react, the aim in a dog fight is to avoid a situation in which your enemy has a straight shot (again, because missiles can't turn very fast). Jets can win an advantage there, if the angles are right--so setting up the right angles against the attacking threat are important. Longer range engagements, including against longer range SAMS, have more to do with countermeasures--that's where planes like the F-22 and F-35 excel.
Now, this is all at the ground pounder level of understanding. The other thing I learned from pilots is that their understanding of missile combat is way deeper than those of us who might launch SAMs in their direction from down in the dirt.
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we like to pretend there are rules in war, but there are not. US bombs hospitals, residential areas, kills civilians too. Every country bombing or invading another country does.
Other countries bomb hospitals. We have collateral damage.
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Everyone sure wastes a lot of time pretending that there are rules. And meetings and condemnations and all of it, all for nothing.
So the thing about the history of warfare is that it teaches that this war, like all others before it, will probably end. And at the end of that war, there will be a civilian population left behind. And generally, warfare has a lot to do with capturing land so that you can use that land to your advantage, whether the advantage is natural resources, or manpower. To take advantage of those resources, you generally need the people who live there to be able to continue living there. You also need them to not engage you in a permanent guerilla war. A lot of the law of war comes from that pretty basic concept: humanity will remain, so better not to be inhumane. This is even true in Ukraine, where even if Russia wins, it will then have to deal with a shattered infrastructure, which will be a huge drain on Russia's resources.
Another piece of that is that soldiers--including almost all of the most hardened combatants--are still people. If you want them to do what you ask, you ought not ask them to use their gruesome craft against the innocent. It's one of the reasons "othering," or systemic desensitization for a different culture, has been such a large part of warfare over the years (and such a big part of atrocities). If you want humans to do horrible things to each other, it's best to convince them that the other isn't as human as they are.
With some notable exceptions, soldiers rarely want to hurt non-combatants just for the hell of it. Same even for POWs. While the adrenaline of combat can make people do horrible things, it's a lot harder to do those things when someone isn't actively shooting at you. The first laws of war stemmed from that--the treatment of captured soldiers, who were the enemy, but once rendered safe, they return to being human.
The advent of new technology, including WMD and killing at a distance (e.g., bombing), has changed things, but the same basic principals apply (and hastening the outlawing of WMD was the nasty habit of not being able to meaningfully control/limit the damage).
There is also a difference between intentionally targeting hospitals, schools, etc., and screwing up. Unquestionably the U.S. has screwed up on that, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a recent situation in which it was intentional.
The Russian method of war is less reliant on technology, and as a result, probably has a higher likelihood of missed targets. And the Russian leadership appears to care less about such things (it has a higher tolerance for mistakes in targeting, and probably also a lower threshold for deciding something is a legitimate target, e.g., we think there was a muzzle flash from that building, so go ahead and target it). That's something that we hear complaints about regarding our method of warfare, that we are too careful, so our soldiers are handcuffed. It's a tough balance.
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Thanks for the nuanced and thoughtful response.
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The F-14 was really a Backfire killer before they could get in range of the carrier, as you note, with the very long range AIM54.
I read one fiction book where B-1s were equipped with AMRAAMs to take out a Backfire raid. Anyway, the thought of a zone of Ukraine that is perhaps 20 miles by 20 miles area sanctuary might be explored.
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whatever became of the neutron bomb from around 1978?
kill the soldiers and leave the buildings and bridges alone
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neutron bomb | nuclear weapon | Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/technology/neutron-bomb)
The bomb might have a yield, or explosive strength, of only one kiloton, a fraction of the 15-kiloton explosion that devastated Hiroshima (https://www.britannica.com/place/Hiroshima-Japan), Japan, in 1945. Its blast and heat effects would be confined to an area of only a few hundred metres in radius, but within a somewhat larger radius of 1,000–2,000 metres the fusion reaction would throw off a powerful wave of neutron (https://www.britannica.com/science/neutron) and gamma radiation (https://www.britannica.com/science/gamma-ray). High-energy neutrons, though short-lived, could penetrate armour or several metres of earth and would be extremely destructive to living tissue. Because of its short-range destructiveness and the absence of long-range effects, the neutron bomb might be highly effective against tank (https://www.britannica.com/technology/tank-military-vehicle) and infantry formations on the battlefield but might not endanger nearby cities or other population centres. It could be launched on a short-range missile, fired by an artillery piece, or possibly delivered by a small aircraft.
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whatever became of the neutron bomb from around 1978?
kill the soldiers and leave the buildings and bridges alone
so, that isn't true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3IWqwyry_A
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don't hear much about neutron bombs being used against the Russian tanks
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The program was halted. Or so we're told.
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gotta have some old ones sitting around that could be given to Ukraine
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They still make quite a large boom.
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https://twitter.com/ConanOBrien/status/1504162493186424837?t=itCc57Fuzw1Jk8_q_g98Wg&s=19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXdtafGdIVM
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seriously, f**k Estonia, and f**k NATO. Estonia officially "demands" a no-fly-zone. F**K YOU ESTONIA. You're in no position to demand shit. You should be thankful you were even welcomed into the club. Now sit the f**k down and shut the f**k up and let the big boys handle it.
This dude absolutely nails it...
"Isn't it great to be in a sprawling military alliance with tiny countries who demand insane actions they could never do themselves."
:043:
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1504201062097563649?s=20&t=Ec-1SxnVdCngPbEuhqQQdw
Best reply to a tweet ever...they have 2 aircraft and 4 helicopters. Have at it. :043:
https://twitter.com/neko6/status/1504216778590724097?s=20&t=Ec-1SxnVdCngPbEuhqQQdw
https://twitter.com/RonPaul/status/1503812380307996676?s=20&t=WVz_gSAtjZZEOrLO8S6wMQ
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Poland demanding NATO missions in Ukraine...boots on the ground. Jesus Christ. F**K Poland too. These shitbag insignificant nothing countries are not worth a single penny of American treasure nor one drop of American blood let alone potentially starting f**king World War III and nuclear holocaust. Who the f**k are they to demand anything?
US needs to tell leaders of these nothing countries to shut the f**k up or they're going to get kicked out of NATO. Have to love the skinny little 5 foot 2 twerp who flaps his gums because his sister is dating the biggest, baddest motherf**ker on the block.
Zelenskyy speaking in front of Congress today pleading for a No Fly Zone. Poland demanding boots on the ground. Estonia demanding a No Fly Zone. I'm actually starting to get scared that World War III is actually going to happen.
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1504019811239608321?s=20&t=5SNR4pARvznjl2ddRliidQ
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Here's everything the US is sending to Ukraine's military | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/598524-heres-everything-the-us-is-sending-to-ukraines-military)
That is a fair bit of stuff, in trained hands, or semitrained.
I idly wonder how the gear is getting to the battle field, and why Russia is not moving to cut supply lines.
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Russia has it's hands full just resupplying and reinforcing their positions. I doubt they have the ability to patrol any of the Ukraine-Poland, Croatia, Hungary, and Romanian borders.
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Russia has it's hands full just resupplying and reinforcing their positions. I doubt they have the ability to patrol any of the Ukraine-Poland, Croatia, Hungary, and Romanian borders.
Yeah, possibly, and that's a question as to why they can't for me. A primary strategy is to cut supply lines.
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Japan says it spotted Russian amphibious ships heading toward Europe | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/598571-japan-says-it-has-spotted-four-russian-amphibious-ships)
This is weird, to me.
The Japanese military said the four ships sailed in the Tsuruga Strait that separates Japan's Honshu island and Hokkaido island, an unusual move for Russia, Reuters reported (https://www.reuters.com/world/japan-spots-four-russian-amphibious-transports-sailing-far-east-2022-03-17/).
The ships are able to hold dozens of military equipment, including tanks, and hundreds of troops.
Japan's defense ministry released pictures of the ships that appeared to have military trucks on at least one of them, according to Reuters.
When a defense ministry spokesperson was asked if the equipment could be going to Ukraine, he said "it is possible.”
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https://twitter.com/ABarbashin/status/1504346954989506560?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1504346954989506560%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FABarbashin%2Fstatus%2F1504346954989506560
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https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1504416951518564360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1504416951518564360%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FOAlexanderDK%2Fstatus%2F1504416951518564360
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https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1504416951518564360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1504416951518564360%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FOAlexanderDK%2Fstatus%2F1504416951518564360
That is….curious. Any ideas?
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I'd say those with private jets are jetting out of Russia ASAP, meaning they want to be away from sanctions et al. and possible social unrest. I could see martial law in Russia's future, not that it would mean much really. These could be the wealthy who Putin doesn't much like.
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That is….curious. Any ideas?
Some rumors that Putin is warring with the oligarchs, so it's possible some are fleeing Moscow? Dubai is "friendly" to people with money and not particularly concerned with geopolitical issues that don't affect it directly. Lots of them already have homes there.
Putin has threatened nationalization of the oligarchs' "private" companies but of course in many cases, he's the one that either installed them as, or aided them in becoming, the mob boss at the top of the power structure for each of those entities, anyway.
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Oil prices are going up this AM, a fair bit, suggesting some deal is not imminent.
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| Since the war began, two of the few working journalists in Mariupol have been Mstyslav Chernov and Evgeniy Maloletka of The Associated Press. My colleagues and I were deeply affected by their dispatch, and we’re turning over the lead section of today’s newsletter to an excerpt from it. |
| The bodies of the children all lie here, dumped into this narrow trench hastily dug into the frozen earth of Mariupol to the constant drumbeat of shelling. |
| There’s 18-month-old Kirill, whose shrapnel wound to the head proved too much for his little toddler’s body. There’s 16-year-old Iliya, whose legs were blown up in an explosion during a soccer game at a school field. There’s the girl no older than 6 who wore the pajamas with cartoon unicorns and who was among the first of Mariupol’s children to die from a Russian shell. |
| They are stacked together with dozens of others in this mass grave on the outskirts of the city. A man covered in a bright blue tarp, weighed down by stones at the crumbling curb. A woman wrapped in a red and gold bedsheet, her legs neatly bound at the ankles with a scrap of white fabric. Workers toss the bodies in as fast as they can, because the less time they spend in the open, the better their own chances of survival. |
| “Damn them all, those people who started this!” raged Volodymyr Bykovskyi, a worker pulling crinkling black body bags from a truck. |
| More bodies will come, from streets where they are everywhere and from the hospital basement where the corpses of adults and children are laid out, awaiting someone to pick them up. The youngest still has an umbilical stump attached. |
| (https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/AuETZXHwwp7TgXI5gr_0FPn6Nmsa3TrE5hrWBngoeIfbR9RNuLipju5AHZXAVptUm-VKNyWc7crB7oBhRQaIcia9Yr3ZXORf-In7SnucgLNX3MWYFjM7GPWlQSmP86qoflJ137U0RBJupi7L9DZEOB7LuQRpmj5FIhARMN5WEKhBoVg31YT8BAium1Y=s0-d-e1-ft#https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/03/17/multimedia/17ambriefing-mariupol02/17ambriefing-mariupol02-articleLarge-v2.jpg) | | An apartment building in Mariupol.Evgeniy Maloletka/Associated Press |
|
| Each airstrike and shell that relentlessly pounds Mariupol — about one a minute at times — drives home the curse of a geography that has put the city squarely in the path of Russia’s domination of Ukraine. This southern seaport of 430,000 has become a symbol of the drive by Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, to crush a democratic Ukraine — and also of a fierce resistance on the ground. The city is now encircled by Russian soldiers, who are slowly squeezing the life out of it, one blast at a time. |
| The surrounding roads are mined and the port blocked. Food is running out (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/W6Kvvc9TTFStX9bAVIfZgQ~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRkFZR5P0TcaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMi8wMy8xMy93b3JsZC9ldXJvcGUvbWFyaXVwb2wtcmVkLWNyb3NzLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9OSZlbWM9ZWRpdF9ubl8yMDIyMDMxNyZpbnN0YW5jZV9pZD01NjAxNyZubD10aGUtbW9ybmluZyZyZWdpX2lkPTE1MzM2ODkxMCZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTg1ODA5JnRlPTEmdXNlcl9pZD04ZTVkMmEyYjVlNDhhNjk2NTYxOTJjYzNhZjBhOTAwY1cDbnl0QgpiKnkPM2IMRAY0UhFqY2Rvb205QGdtYWlsLmNvbVgEAAAAAA~~), and the Russians have stopped humanitarian attempts to bring it in. Electricity is mostly gone and water is sparse, with residents melting snow to drink. People burn scraps of furniture in makeshift grills to warm their hands in the freezing cold. |
| Some parents have even left their newborns at the hospital, perhaps hoping to give them a chance at life in the one place with decent electricity and water. |
| Death is everywhere (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/srfqa1OEMsdj8cWZtPdojg~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRkFZR5P0TlaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMi8wMy8xNS93b3JsZC9ldXJvcGUvbWFyaXVwb2wtZGVhdGgtdG9sbC11a3JhaW5lLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9OSZlbWM9ZWRpdF9ubl8yMDIyMDMxNyZpbnN0YW5jZV9pZD01NjAxNyZubD10aGUtbW9ybmluZyZyZWdpX2lkPTE1MzM2ODkxMCZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTg1ODA5JnRlPTEmdXNlcl9pZD04ZTVkMmEyYjVlNDhhNjk2NTYxOTJjYzNhZjBhOTAwY1cDbnl0QgpiKnkPM2IMRAY0UhFqY2Rvb205QGdtYWlsLmNvbVgEAAAAAA~~). Local officials have tallied more than 2,500 deaths in the siege, but many bodies can’t be counted because of the endless shelling. They have told families to leave their dead outside in the streets because it’s too dangerous to hold funerals. |
| Just weeks ago, Mariupol’s future seemed much brighter. If geography drives a city’s destiny, Mariupol was on the path to success, with its thriving iron and steel plants, a deepwater port and high global demand for both. |
| By Feb. 27, that started to change, as an ambulance raced into a city hospital carrying a small motionless girl, not yet 6. Her brown hair was pulled back off her pale face with a rubber band, and her pajama pants were bloodied by Russian shelling. |
| Her wounded father came with her, his head bandaged. Her mother stood outside the ambulance, weeping. |
| As the doctors and nurses huddled around her, one gave her an injection. Another shocked her with a defibrillator. “Show this to Putin,” one doctor said, with expletive-laced fury. “The eyes of this child and crying doctors.” |
| They couldn’t save her. Doctors covered the tiny body with her pink striped jacket and gently closed her eyes. She now rests in the mass grave. |
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Oil prices are going up this AM, a fair bit, suggesting some deal is not imminent.
So my gas prices that never actually went down, are still not going to go down? This is shocking news to me, I say.
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The daily bounce of spot prices can be interesting, somewhat, but it's a very short term somewhat random thing and traders are nervous.
Russian oil won't be on the market to the west for years, at best they can sell to China and India at some discount, and some to Europe.
The largest US usage is transportation, and as I've shown, demand for gasoline isn't going away any time soon no matter what we do.
-
| Since the war began, two of the few working journalists in Mariupol have been Mstyslav Chernov and Evgeniy Maloletka of The Associated Press. My colleagues and I were deeply affected by their dispatch, and we’re turning over the lead section of today’s newsletter to an excerpt from it. |
| The bodies of the children all lie here, dumped into this narrow trench hastily dug into the frozen earth of Mariupol to the constant drumbeat of shelling. |
| There’s 18-month-old Kirill, whose shrapnel wound to the head proved too much for his little toddler’s body. There’s 16-year-old Iliya, whose legs were blown up in an explosion during a soccer game at a school field. There’s the girl no older than 6 who wore the pajamas with cartoon unicorns and who was among the first of Mariupol’s children to die from a Russian shell. |
| They are stacked together with dozens of others in this mass grave on the outskirts of the city. A man covered in a bright blue tarp, weighed down by stones at the crumbling curb. A woman wrapped in a red and gold bedsheet, her legs neatly bound at the ankles with a scrap of white fabric. Workers toss the bodies in as fast as they can, because the less time they spend in the open, the better their own chances of survival. |
| “Damn them all, those people who started this!” raged Volodymyr Bykovskyi, a worker pulling crinkling black body bags from a truck. |
| More bodies will come, from streets where they are everywhere and from the hospital basement where the corpses of adults and children are laid out, awaiting someone to pick them up. The youngest still has an umbilical stump attached. |
| (https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/AuETZXHwwp7TgXI5gr_0FPn6Nmsa3TrE5hrWBngoeIfbR9RNuLipju5AHZXAVptUm-VKNyWc7crB7oBhRQaIcia9Yr3ZXORf-In7SnucgLNX3MWYFjM7GPWlQSmP86qoflJ137U0RBJupi7L9DZEOB7LuQRpmj5FIhARMN5WEKhBoVg31YT8BAium1Y=s0-d-e1-ft#https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/03/17/multimedia/17ambriefing-mariupol02/17ambriefing-mariupol02-articleLarge-v2.jpg) | | An apartment building in Mariupol.Evgeniy Maloletka/Associated Press |
|
| Each airstrike and shell that relentlessly pounds Mariupol — about one a minute at times — drives home the curse of a geography that has put the city squarely in the path of Russia’s domination of Ukraine. This southern seaport of 430,000 has become a symbol of the drive by Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, to crush a democratic Ukraine — and also of a fierce resistance on the ground. The city is now encircled by Russian soldiers, who are slowly squeezing the life out of it, one blast at a time. |
| The surrounding roads are mined and the port blocked. Food is running out (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/W6Kvvc9TTFStX9bAVIfZgQ~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRkFZR5P0TcaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMi8wMy8xMy93b3JsZC9ldXJvcGUvbWFyaXVwb2wtcmVkLWNyb3NzLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9OSZlbWM9ZWRpdF9ubl8yMDIyMDMxNyZpbnN0YW5jZV9pZD01NjAxNyZubD10aGUtbW9ybmluZyZyZWdpX2lkPTE1MzM2ODkxMCZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTg1ODA5JnRlPTEmdXNlcl9pZD04ZTVkMmEyYjVlNDhhNjk2NTYxOTJjYzNhZjBhOTAwY1cDbnl0QgpiKnkPM2IMRAY0UhFqY2Rvb205QGdtYWlsLmNvbVgEAAAAAA~~), and the Russians have stopped humanitarian attempts to bring it in. Electricity is mostly gone and water is sparse, with residents melting snow to drink. People burn scraps of furniture in makeshift grills to warm their hands in the freezing cold. |
| Some parents have even left their newborns at the hospital, perhaps hoping to give them a chance at life in the one place with decent electricity and water. |
| Death is everywhere (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/srfqa1OEMsdj8cWZtPdojg~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRkFZR5P0TlaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMi8wMy8xNS93b3JsZC9ldXJvcGUvbWFyaXVwb2wtZGVhdGgtdG9sbC11a3JhaW5lLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9OSZlbWM9ZWRpdF9ubl8yMDIyMDMxNyZpbnN0YW5jZV9pZD01NjAxNyZubD10aGUtbW9ybmluZyZyZWdpX2lkPTE1MzM2ODkxMCZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTg1ODA5JnRlPTEmdXNlcl9pZD04ZTVkMmEyYjVlNDhhNjk2NTYxOTJjYzNhZjBhOTAwY1cDbnl0QgpiKnkPM2IMRAY0UhFqY2Rvb205QGdtYWlsLmNvbVgEAAAAAA~~). Local officials have tallied more than 2,500 deaths in the siege, but many bodies can’t be counted because of the endless shelling. They have told families to leave their dead outside in the streets because it’s too dangerous to hold funerals. |
| Just weeks ago, Mariupol’s future seemed much brighter. If geography drives a city’s destiny, Mariupol was on the path to success, with its thriving iron and steel plants, a deepwater port and high global demand for both. |
| By Feb. 27, that started to change, as an ambulance raced into a city hospital carrying a small motionless girl, not yet 6. Her brown hair was pulled back off her pale face with a rubber band, and her pajama pants were bloodied by Russian shelling. |
| Her wounded father came with her, his head bandaged. Her mother stood outside the ambulance, weeping. |
| As the doctors and nurses huddled around her, one gave her an injection. Another shocked her with a defibrillator. “Show this to Putin,” one doctor said, with expletive-laced fury. “The eyes of this child and crying doctors.” |
| They couldn’t save her. Doctors covered the tiny body with her pink striped jacket and gently closed her eyes. She now rests in the mass grave. |
Horrifying and deeply saddening. I'm going to enjoy hearing about dickface Putin's death.
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The daily bounce of spot prices can be interesting, somewhat, but it's a very short term somewhat random thing and traders are nervous.
Russian oil won't be on the market to the west for years, at best they can sell to China and India at some discount, and some to Europe.
The largest US usage is transportation, and as I've shown, demand for gasoline isn't going away any time soon no matter what we do.
I'm only kidding about the gas prices, of course, following on from our discussion yesterday. It's nothing compared to the suffering occurring right now in Ukraine. I'm fortunate to be in a position where the cost of gasoline doesn't directly affect me much, and indirectly I can absorb whatever inflationary cost increases for basic needs might be associated with it. There are scores of millions in this country that have it much worse than I do, but even so, none of those people are being murdered by the bombs of an evil dictator from a neighboring country.
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I know. I do think Ohio should stop naming bays after him though.
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I had to look it up. I'm definitely not familiar with Ohio geography.
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what could possibly go wrong? they totally didn't start a couple of world wars and commit the greatest genocide in human history, or anything.
You're totally not painting the whole picture,half of Europe one day didn't just set their beers down and start killing each other for the hell of it. Actually English Crown had a hand in things if you peek behind the curtain,don't let the common language fool you. Perhaps the years 1776 & 1812 ring a liberty bell.Ask the IRISH - HAPPY ST PADDY'S DAY.The Crown blockaded the North Sea violating international law and causing not only malnutrition and later starvation but angered nuetral countries that had huge trading links with Germany. WW1 was nothing but a continuation of old hostilities that sprung from centuries of warfare.Which later gave rise to Hitler who didn't show his true colors until eliminating all possible opposition
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I'd say those with private jets are jetting out of Russia ASAP, meaning they want to be away from sanctions et al. and possible social unrest. I could see martial law in Russia's future, not that it would mean much really. These could be the wealthy who Putin doesn't much like.
that'd be my guess. Putin just went on a tirade a few days ago saying he's going to deal with the traitors. Probably not a good idea to be on his bad side right now. Many probably just taking precaution and getting the f**k out.
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Who the f**k are they to demand anything?
US needs to tell leaders of these nothing countries to shut the f**k up or they're going to get kicked out of NATO. Have to love the skinny little 5 foot 2 twerp who flaps his gums because his sister is dating the biggest, baddest motherf**ker on the block.
This is exactly the same type of responses other countries citizens directed at the USA the last 20 yrs. look at the long string of little countries our government picked on.That only benefitted who? Wasn't the average John & Jane Doe
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Russian oil won't be on the market to the west for years, at best they can sell to China and India at some discount, and some to Europe.
Huh? Only US/UK have restricted Russian oil. They each only account for about 1% of Russian oil exports. EU, South Korea, and Japan still buying. Today. Right now.
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The EU is "the west", Japan isn't.
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This is exactly the same type of responses other countries citizens directed at the USA the last 20 yrs. look at the long string of little countries our government picked on.That only benefitted who? Wasn't the average John & Jane Doe
not sure the scenarios are analogous.
NATO is US's ball, court, and rules- it's our club- and these little piss ants are lucky to even be invited in. They need to shut the hell up and just be grateful they have a seat at the table. You have nothing peon countries who never in a million years could establish no fly zones or put boots on the ground in Ukraine- demanding the US do it. Basically demanding the US start World War III. F**k that. And F**k them. If they are so interested in escalation and making a small war turn into a huge one, then they can try it themselves, without our help. Estonia has 2 planes and 4 helicopters in their Air Force. Good luck. :043:
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Never thought I'd see the Soviet Union back in action in my lifetime.
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The EU is "the west", Japan isn't.
Japan/South Korea are very tied to "the west" - so, yeah. And EU is still buying Russian oil. So. Yeah.
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Never thought I'd see the Soviet Union back in action in my lifetime.
this is a ridiculous statement.
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I know. I do think Ohio should stop naming bays after him though.
BASTAGE, ;D friends are have been going up there the last two weeks to open up thier B & B.Quite a bit of construction going on much to the chagrin of the locals
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Russia is on pace to lose more soldiers in two months in Ukraine than the US lost in 10 years in Vietnam. Will that deter Putin? I don't think so.
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If they are so interested in escalation and making a small war turn into a huge one, then they can try it themselves, without our help. Estonia has 2 planes and 4 helicopters in their Air Force. Good luck. :043:
Well our War Industry continues to start conundrums then don't they. Follow the money,like leaving how much in Afganistan? When they didn't have to.Our federal Government is such a corrupt shit show and has been for quite some time
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Most of the stuff left in Afg was intended to be for their army.
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So when it was obvious that wasn't happening because of the Taliban why not take it all out like sleepy joe 1st promised in 1988 when running against Obama? There was no risk of being over run they actually court martialed some soldiers for pointing exactly this out.It's not our parents/IKE's USA unfortunately
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Experts break down why Ukraine is so dangerous for Russian pilots (taskandpurpose.com) (https://taskandpurpose.com/analysis/russian-aircraft-shoot-down-ukraine/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1ouwa7FEAMOZh-naqiE_rZAaWsMXlPGYObeQqc6ysDWmmC5mZ-1Fyl-LI)
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Most of the stuff left in Afg was intended to be for their army.
whoops!
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Thanks for the nuanced and thoughtful response.
@SFBadger96 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=51) bringing the goods!
Great stuff.
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https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/1504426844199669762
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I know. I do think Ohio should stop naming bays after him though.
Hey now, we have a lot of fun in that area every summer.:93:
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https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/1504426844199669762
The Arny from 30-40 years ago, we could've just sent that guy in and let him handle it all by himself.
(https://i2.wp.com/bollyy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Binge-Watch-10-Best-Movies-Of-Arnold-Schwarzenegger.jpg?fit=1200%2C768&ssl=1)
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Yeah send in Arnold and Stallone to finish it. I'm all for it.
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Hulk Hogan and The Macho Man too.
And Steve McMichael.
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Might need Iron Man
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But not Steven Seagal. I hear he's banned from Ukraine.
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I know. I do think Ohio should stop naming bays after him though.
My favorite place to boat out of when I was younger and actually lived in Ohio :57:
Of course that was when it was a sleepy little place. It has become way too popular for me
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The Arny from 30-40 years ago, we could've just sent that guy in and let him handle it all by himself.
Chicken Hawk,him Segal,Van Dam,Willis, the others.All make movies where they appear as some sort of bad asses shredding all forms of opposition. But have the spines of gummy bears when the real thing presented itself. At least earlier generations made cartoons - Superman,Capt.America,etc.
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My favorite place to boat out of when I was younger and actually lived in Ohio :57:
Of course that was when it was a sleepy little place. It has become way too popular for me
Folks had a place on Marblehead for 3 decades,spent my summers up there for about 4 yrs.Brother has lived on Catawba since '08
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Should I create an "Ohio Memories" thread for you jackwagons to wax nostalgic?
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Another thing to add to that article on the lack of Russian air supremacy: if you're dropping dumb bombs near your front lines, why risk your high value aircraft (with undertrained pilots)? Just use artillery. It's cheap and just as effective (or at least close to it).
What we're seeing about this war so far is that the Russian method of warfare is largely as we've long planned/trained for. It still relies more on brute strength and numbers than on precision and skill. The US (and I presume NATO) has long assumed that our only chance in a ground war with Russia was to out perform it with both technology and training. We put a lot of time and money into both. Our pilots (and our seamen, marines, and soldiers) get a lot of high quality training (it doesn't always feel that way, but it's all relative...). Part of that training is inter-service coordination, so our Army can talk to our Air Force and our Navy/Marines effectively. That's something we do quite well, and it's something that clearly Russia does not (again, more or less as we've planned for over the last seven decades). That doesn't mean our fighting force has a massive advantage over theirs: their numbers are still very large, and their culture/ethos appears to bear big losses in a way that ours probably does not. But it's an interesting validation of our strategic planning.
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Take it to the In Other Oil News thread, ya jackwagon.
Edit: This was not directed toward SFBadgerIrish, as it now appears... ;)
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My feelings were hurt.
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Another thing to add to that article on the lack of Russian air supremacy: if you're dropping dumb bombs near your front lines, why risk your high value aircraft (with undertrained pilots)? Just use artillery. It's cheap and just as effective (or at least close to it).
What we're seeing about this war so far is that the Russian method of warfare is largely as we've long planned/trained for. It still relies more on brute strength and numbers than on precision and skill. The US (and I presume NATO) has long assumed that our only chance in a ground war with Russia was to out perform it with both technology and training. We put a lot of time and money into both. Our pilots (and our seamen, marines, and soldiers) get a lot of high quality training (it doesn't always feel that way, but it's all relative...). Part of that training is inter-service coordination, so our Army can talk to our Air Force and our Navy/Marines effectively. That's something we do quite well, and it's something that clearly Russia does not (again, more or less as we've planned for over the last seven decades). That doesn't mean our fighting force has a massive advantage over theirs: their numbers are still very large, and their culture/ethos appears to bear big losses in a way that ours probably does not. But it's an interesting validation of our strategic planning.
I think the biggest surprise for me is how ineffective their tanks have been. When you think Russian armed forces you think huge numbers of tanks. This just hasnt happened either from bad leadership and/or the Ukrainian ability to take those tanks out. If you dont control the air and you dont get the offensive punch from your tanks youre in a world of trouble
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The weather has been bad for tanks--mud is rough on heavy vehicles. One question is whether they planned the timing of this attack because they thought the winter would provide more frozen ground?
You also need effective supply lines because tanks burn a ton of gas and require a lot of maintenance (our tankers all complain about the time spent in the motor pool, but it's a fact of life in the mechanized force). And you need effective coordination with your infantry support, which is particularly difficult in urban environments, where enemy ambush--particularly well-armed with tank-killing weapons--can be around any corner. Cities are about the worst place to conduct armored warfare.
Also, the effectiveness of the Javelin, NLAW, and other similar weapons seems to hasten the question of the future of armored warfare. You've always needed to support your tanks with infantry, but when the enemy infantry can effectively kill your tanks with a shoulder-fired weapon from three kilometers away, that poses real problems.
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Apparently they were trying to time the attack when the ground was still frozen, but delayed for some reason. It's possible that dickface Putin delayed because assface Xi asked him to, so it wouldn't draw attention away from the Beijing Olympics. If that's true, then it was a costly mistake for the Russian army.
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https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1504399151961976839?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1504399151961976839%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1504399151961976839
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Apparently they were trying to time the attack when the ground was still frozen, but delayed for some reason. It's possible that dickface Putin delayed because assface Xi asked him to, so it wouldn't draw attention away from the Beijing Olympics. If that's true, then it was a costly mistake for the Russian army.
Can’t……stop…..laughing. 😂😂.
Thanks dude- made my day. I am learning a new language. Dickface and assface. 😂😂😂😂
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Can’t……stop…..laughing. 😂😂.
Thanks dude- made my day. I am learning a new language. Dickface and assface. 😂😂😂😂
there is also ass hole but I wont say who that is cause utee would be disappointed in me
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there is also ass hole but I wont say who that is cause utee would be disappointed in me
Take it to the Chinasux thread, pal.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dq2jix9VAAA9lzB.jpg)
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I think the biggest surprise for me is how ineffective their tanks have been. When you think Russian armed forces you think huge numbers of tanks. This just hasnt happened either from bad leadership and/or the Ukrainian ability to take those tanks out. If you dont control the air and you dont get the offensive punch from your tanks youre in a world of trouble
I knew Russian tanks were vulnerable to Javelin missiles. Russian tanks are not as well armored as ours, and Javelins can be programed to go up in the air then down the soft upper core, or strike them head-on which is faster but less deadly. Russia has the largest tank force in the world, but not necessarily the best maintained or effective.
I am not certain there were or are enough Javelins in the theatre, although I think there are or will be now. It seems odd 75-years after WWII that tank battles were between tanks, and are now between flesh and blood men carrying 35-lb. missiles that cannot be seen by the enemy even after the missile fires, and a self-propelled armored artillery unit.
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There was one "theory" (or notion) that the Russians are using mostly second line troops and gear based in part on how many T-62s are being seen. The "A" level troops are being kept in reserve, possibly in fear of a NATO reaction, or to provoke same somehow. I know they used some airborne units at one point, or air mobile, and they aren't second line troops. I don't know of course, a lot of this still strikes me as inexplicable.
I would have first focused on cutting off Kyiv from the west and taking port cities to cut supply lines and then worried about cities. The mud is probably a factor.
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Pretty stunning if this is true.
Russian troops 'shoot themselves in the LEGS to avoid fighting in Ukraine', as Putin’s war machine continues to crumble (the-sun.com) (https://www.the-sun.com/news/4922058/russian-troops-shoot-legs-war/)
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Sounds a little too propaganda-y for me, but there's no doubt that dickface putin's invasion is a complete shit show, so I suppose it's possible.
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https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1504789276730535949?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1504789276730535949%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fshashj%2Fstatus%2F1504789276730535949%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1504789407190114306257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es2_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16%2Ftopics%2F3274372%2F351
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Invasion of Ukraine : In Depth Analysis By Former US Army Paratrooper - (rebellionresearch.com) (https://www.rebellionresearch.com/invasion-of-ukraine-in-depth-analysis?fbclid=IwAR2i7S718V-q19HU-xIuStGSyJsOm5Wft1Qb33S10wdt46qntnxGl_LG8aU)
More of an overview, I didn't see anything novel in it, some maps and estimated casualties.
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Should I create an "Ohio Memories" thread for you jackwagons to wax nostalgic?
You poor trampled cabbage leaf,just because you live out where the buses don't run stop projecting your feelings of inadequacy onto us - and dry your eyes
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Sounds a little too propaganda-y for me, but there's no doubt that dickface putin's invasion is a complete shit show, so I suppose it's possible.
yeah, lotta propaganda going out on both sides right now.
I think the longer Ukraine can hold them off and inflict more damage on Russian troops, tanks, and vehicles, obviously the better it will be for Ukraine when it comes to the negotiating table.
Ukraine will ultimately have to negotiate with Russia. Russia is just much bigger, stronger country than Ukraine, and the leaders of Ukraine can't just sit there and let their country keep getting wrecked. US/NATO simply put just cannot get involved, the risks of nuclear war are just too great.
What is a little surprising is the decay of Russian tanks/equipment- apparently none of it was in great shape- hasn't been maintained- their "stupid" bombs (definitely nowhere near as accurate as ours- and even ours make mistakes) and the fact that apparently they've been communicating on unsecure channels (which has even lead to them being intercepted and killed by the Ukranians).
Their military has numbers and a shit ton of nukes, but it's probably even more a paper tiger than most even thought. Which is probably why I think if US did get involved, Putin would make good on his nuclear threat. They'd have zero shot. US would roll them in 5 seconds flat. The only hope and prayer he'd have to even the odds is to go that route.
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There was one "theory" (or notion) that the Russians are using mostly second line troops and gear based in part on how many T-62s are being seen. The "A" level troops are being kept in reserve,
1945 Army football did this...the backups started nearly every game. 2nd quarter rolls around, and BOOM - you're toast.
Russia is no '45 Army.
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I suspect (hope) the Russians have issues with their nuclear arsenal.
Last Typhoon: Can The World’s Largest Submarine Still Destroy The World? (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2020/08/23/last-typhoon-can-the-worlds-largest-submarine-still-destroy-the-world/?sh=7e6dbf4d6ec2)
They have one last Typhoon that might be operational, or not. They wouldn't use this is any first strike though. Their land based missiles would be used, they are more accurate, and would be attempting to reduce our retaliatory capacity. But we have ten Ohio class boomers, not all on station at one time of course, but five usually are, and that's a lot. Then you have the land based ICBMs and B2s (2o of them). That's a lot to try and negate in a first strike, especially if your gear has not been maintained well.
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I suspect (hope) the Russians have issues with their nuclear arsenal.
Last Typhoon: Can The World’s Largest Submarine Still Destroy The World? (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2020/08/23/last-typhoon-can-the-worlds-largest-submarine-still-destroy-the-world/?sh=7e6dbf4d6ec2)
They have one last Typhoon that might be operational, or not. They wouldn't use this is any first strike though. Their land based missiles would be used, they are more accurate, and would be attempting to reduce our retaliatory capacity. But we have ten Ohio class boomers, not all on station at one time of course, but five usually are, and that's a lot. Then you have the land based ICBMs and B2s (2o of them). That's a lot to try and negate in a first strike, especially if your gear has not been maintained well.
let's hope they have issues. but unfortunately all it takes is one and ABM's won't stop an ICBM.
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So Russia has nukes and they get to do whatever they want?
No.
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yeah, lotta propaganda going out on both sides right now.
I think the longer Ukraine can hold them off and inflict more damage on Russian troops, tanks, and vehicles, obviously the better it will be for Ukraine when it comes to the negotiating table.
Ukraine will ultimately have to negotiate with Russia. Russia is just much bigger, stronger country than Ukraine, and the leaders of Ukraine can't just sit there and let their country keep getting wrecked. US/NATO simply put just cannot get involved, the risks of nuclear war are just too great.
What is a little surprising is the decay of Russian tanks/equipment- apparently none of it was in great shape- hasn't been maintained- their "stupid" bombs (definitely nowhere near as accurate as ours- and even ours make mistakes) and the fact that apparently they've been communicating on unsecure channels (which has even lead to them being intercepted and killed by the Ukranians).
Their military has numbers and a shit ton of nukes, but it's probably even more a paper tiger than most even thought. Which is probably why I think if US did get involved, Putin would make good on his nuclear threat. They'd have zero shot. US would roll them in 5 seconds flat. The only hope and prayer he'd have to even the odds is to go that route.
A lot of speculation that dickface putin has been skimming a lot of the money that should have been going to the military, and lining his pockets. He's a mob boss warlord, not a military or political genius, so it would certainly be in keeping with his general MO.
And like many other variations of organized crime, the skimming occurs at all levels. Everybody takes a little bit, which leaves even less for the actual original intended purpose. And skimming service is even easier than skimming hard goods, since it's more difficult to account for in the financials.
Run a country like a thug mob boss for a couple of decades, and this is where you land.
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A lot of speculation that dickface putin has been skimming a lot of the money that should have been going to the military, and lining his pockets. He's a mob boss warlord, not a military or political genius, so it would certainly be in keeping with his general MO.
And like many other variations of organized crime, the skimming occurs at all levels. Everybody takes a little bit, which leaves even less for the actual original intended purpose. And skimming service is even easier than skimming hard goods, since it's more difficult to account for in the financials.
Run a country like a thug mob boss for a couple of decades, and this is where you land.
yeah that definitely seems very plausible. wouldn't necessarily even have to be putin lining his own pockets, could be underlings and people in the military. russia is that sort of country. extremely corrupt and it starts with the boss man.
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So Russia has nukes and they get to do whatever they want?
No.
Hey now! Only 'Merica gets to do whatever it wants!
On a serious note, it's not about Russia "getting to do whatever they want". Russia is at war with Ukraine. They are not at war with the US. The US is under no obligation to defend Ukraine. Ukraine is not a member of NATO. US isn't bound by treaty to guarantee their security.
We are not the worlds police. The world does not belong to us. And the risks of US getting directly involved far outweigh any benefits. Not our problem. Not our fight. We can continue sanctioning Russia and keep sending Ukraine weapons and try to work on helping to negotiate a peace and the best outcome possible- but we have zero business getting involved in a hot war with Russia over Ukraine. Less than zero.
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Apparently they were trying to time the attack when the ground was still frozen, but delayed for some reason. It's possible that dickface Putin delayed because assface Xi asked him to, so it wouldn't draw attention away from the Beijing Olympics. If that's true, then it was a costly mistake for the Russian army.
so the chinese olympics was good for something!
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So Russia has nukes and they get to do whatever they want?
No.
why don't you go ahead and put a stop to the Russian aggression?
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We are not the worlds police.
This is the least correct sentence ever typed on this board.
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This is the least correct sentence ever typed on this board.
Not to speak on his behalf, but based on his history of posting, I think he means, we should not be the world's police.
And in that respect, I feel like his views probably align with your own.
Mine too, for that matter.
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Well he stated it as fact.
And Russia isn't at war with Ukraine, they invaded a foreign country, unprovoked.
Ukraine's only sin was not having enough oil for us to give a shit.
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Well he stated it as fact.
And Russia isn't at war with Ukraine, they invaded a foreign country, unprovoked.
Ukraine's only sin was not having enough oil for us to give a shit.
what would you call it?
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Well he stated it as fact.
And Russia isn't at war with Ukraine, they invaded a foreign country, unprovoked.
Ukraine's only sin was not having enough oil for us to give a shit.
Tens of billions of dollars in aid to Ukraine says you're wrong about that.
The sole thing stopping us from erasing Russia from the the face of the earth, right now, today-- is dickface putin's finger on the button. The USA simply cannot be involved in a direct shooting war with Russia. It can't happen.
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Then my initial statement was correct: he can do whatever he wants.
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Tens of billions of dollars in aid to Ukraine says you're wrong about that.
Money.....talk......nothing
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As long as it does not get personal, I enjoy the back and forth here.
We went into Kuwait in, I forget, 1990 or 91, because Kuwait's sovereignty was breached. Ukraine's sovereignty was breached and we only provide weapons, and do not directly intervene.
We are the world's police. But you have to have oil.
Maybe in 50-years if you are invaded, we will be your police if you have solar and wind power, but for now, you have to have oil.
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We often try to be the world's police, it often ends poorly.
I believe Ukraine had a UN vote back in the USSR days.
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if the Russian army had been in Kuwait in 91, chances are they would not have had enough oil for the US to send in troops
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As long as it does not get personal, I enjoy the back and forth here.
We went into Kuwait in, I forget, 1990 or 91, because Kuwait's sovereignty was breached. Ukraine's sovereignty was breached and we only provide weapons, and do not directly intervene.
We are the world's police. But you have to have oil.
Maybe in 50-years if you are invaded, we will be your police if you have solar and wind power, but for now, you have to have oil.
Not sure what oil has to do with it
I dont think the US got a drop of oil from the Iraq wars
nor was it the reason we went in
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As long as it does not get personal, I enjoy the back and forth here.
We went into Kuwait in, I forget, 1990 or 91, because Kuwait's sovereignty was breached. Ukraine's sovereignty was breached and we only provide weapons, and do not directly intervene.
We are the world's police. But you have to have oil.
Maybe in 50-years if you are invaded, we will be your police if you have solar and wind power, but for now, you have to have oil.
A lot has changed in 30 years, for sure. They should have marched to Baghdad like Stormin' Norman wanted to at that time, instead of waiting for the WMD crap.
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should have marched to Moscow like Patton wanted to do
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It's interesting to look at the size of the Allies versus the Russian army in 1945. It's not close. Most of the German forces were fighting in the East from 1941 with brief exceptions. The Russians rolled them back. They had good fighter AC, comparable to ours, excellent tanks, better and more numerous than ours, massive artillery, and the people in the West had no stomach for another war.
Patton's notions were absurd in my view.
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in most folks view
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The story about armies marching into Moscow of late ended badly. The Mongols made it, but Moscow wasn't much of a town back then.
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As long as it does not get personal, I enjoy the back and forth here.
We went into Kuwait in, I forget, 1990 or 91, because Kuwait's sovereignty was breached. Ukraine's sovereignty was breached and we only provide weapons, and do not directly intervene.
We are the world's police. But you have to have oil.
Maybe in 50-years if you are invaded, we will be your police if you have solar and wind power, but for now, you have to have oil.
If Russia invaded Kuwait, we wouldn't have been in a shooting war to liberate them.
If Iraq invaded Ukraine, we probably would.
Because Russia has nukes and Iraq doesn't.
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Every post like that only strengthens my idea that Putin can do whatever he wants.
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I would guess most people feel Putin can do whatever he wants, within reason
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Not sure what oil has to do with it
I dont think the US got a drop of oil from the Iraq wars
nor was it the reason we went in
You're probably confused why there always seems to be problems in the middle east, huh?
Maybe it's because of all the sand.
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You're probably confused why there always seems to be problems in the middle east, huh?
Maybe it's because of all the sand.
The only thing oil had to do with the Iraq war was the fact that a defenseless Kuwait was invaded by Iraq
Kuwait has large oil reserves and the US wanted to restore Kuwait's freedom and stabilize the oil crises
The US did not retain ownership in the oil nor benefit from receiving any of it
The United Nations supported the US in this action
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Every post like that only strengthens my idea that Putin can do whatever he wants.
Not whatever he wants, but that were going to fight them with economic and diplomatic means, rather than a shooting war.
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Every post like that only strengthens my idea that Putin can do whatever he wants.
We are about to find out if thats true
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Not to speak on his behalf, but based on his history of posting, I think he means, we should not be the world's police.
And in that respect, I feel like his views probably align with your own.
Mine too, for that matter.
this is exactly my view.
The US is one of the countries in the world. It is not the world. A lot of politicians in DC and shockingly a lot of people in this country tend to act or want to believe the latter.
US has 900 bases all over the world. The DoD budget never decreases. It's always increasing. I believe it's $778 billion for FY 2022. And they are increasing it. It's more than the next 11 countries combined or something stupid like that. Before we know it, it'll be $1 trillion pretty soon.
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Every post like that only strengthens my idea that Putin can do whatever he wants.
^ terrified of COVID....fearless when it comes to potential nuclear war....:043:
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Well he stated it as fact.
And Russia isn't at war with Ukraine, they invaded a foreign country, unprovoked.
Ukraine's only sin was not having enough oil for us to give a shit.
Ummmm...
a) it is a war.
b) NO US President would risk nukes going off in Manhattan or LA for Ukraine. Not one. Not even the current idiot in office. Even if the chance is 1% Putin would do that- or even less than 1% - not a risk any President can take. ABM's are for the most part worthless crap that have zero shot at stopping an ICBM loaded with nuclear warheads.
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Not sure what oil has to do with it
I dont think the US got a drop of oil from the Iraq wars
nor was it the reason we went in
I do know this, Saddam started denominating his oil in euros exclusively instead of the US dollar in about 2001-2002. In 2003, the US invaded Iraq illegally on a bunch of trumped up bullsh*t charges that Iraq had WMD's and links to Al-Qaeda. Both of which were preposterous claims- even at the time. As soon as Saddam was toppled and the Ba'ath party was disbanded and US had control over most of the oil fields, Iraqi oil went right back to being denominated in US dollars.
Not sure it's ever about taking a drop of oil with these wars. US has plenty of oil on our own shores and so does our neighbor to the north Canada. It's about securing the flow of said oil and to another extent having it traded exclusively in US dollars.
US intelligence services helped Saddam's Ba'ath Party seize power in Iraq in 1963. Saddam was for all intents and purposes an American client. US backed him in the 70s and 80s. During the Iran-Iraq war, US shipped Iraq arms, helped train it's soldiers, gave them aid (money), intelligence, and even chemical & bio-weapon precursors. And as many as 90 US military advisors supported Iraqi forces and helped pick targets for Iraqi air and missile attacks on Iran.
He wasn't an enemy of the US until he started going against the wishes of Washington DC - ie - invading and annexing Kuwait.
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The only thing oil had to do with the Iraq war was the fact that a defenseless Kuwait was invaded by Iraq
Kuwait has large oil reserves and the US wanted to restore Kuwait's freedom and stabilize the oil crises
The US did not retain ownership in the oil nor benefit from receiving any of it
The United Nations supported the US in this action
Iraq owed Kuwait a shitload of money that they borrowed from Kuwait to fight the Iran-Iraq war. They were having trouble paying it back.
And Kuwait was producing way over their OPEC quota - almost flooding the market which helped keep the price of oil low- which massively cut into the profits of Iraq's oil trade.
If Iraq had taken Kuwait and started drastically cutting back oil production in both countries- it would have caused oil prices to shoot way up and Iraq would be making a shitload of $$$$.
That's why Saddam invaded Kuwait.
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Iraq owed Kuwait a shitload of money that they borrowed from Kuwait to fight the Iran-Iraq war. They were having trouble paying it back.
And Kuwait was producing way over their OPEC quota - almost flooding the market which helped keep the price of oil low- which massively cut into the profits of Iraq's oil trade.
If Iraq had taken Kuwait and started drastically cutting back oil production in both countries- it would have caused oil prices to shoot way up and Iraq would be making a shitload of $$$$.
That's why Saddam invaded Kuwait.
Im sure Putin would consider that as justification
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Tens of billions of dollars in aid to Ukraine says you're wrong about that.
The sole thing stopping us from erasing Russia from the the face of the earth, right now, today-- is dickface putin's finger on the button. The USA simply cannot be involved in a direct shooting war with Russia. It can't happen.
yup.
US has been training/funding/arming Ukraine for years to the tune of tens of billions of dollars. And it was that pesky "Russian puppet" Trump that started flooding Ukraine with lethal arms in 2017- something even Obama refused to do as he didn't wish to escalate tensions with Russia. Weird how a "Russian puppet" would escalate tensions with Russia though. Strange.
Anywho...you're 100% correct. Putin's threat of nuclear war is why US can't get directly involved. Anyone with a brain could tell you this. Idk why OAM is pretending why he doesn't see this. Nuclear war = life as we know it is over. You thought COVID was bad? LOL.
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Our military does decrease in certain time periods, especially in real dollars, but it isn't much of a decrease.
U.S. Military Spending/Defense Budget 1960-2022 | MacroTrends (https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/military-spending-defense-budget)
It is enormous, and much of it hinges on our overseas commitments, which are large, coupled with our capacity to put troops ashore almost anywhere in great numbers and keep them supplied.
The first step would be to reevaluate our commitments.
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(https://i.imgur.com/qco254I.png)
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Switchblade Kamikaze Drones: Russia's Worst Nightmare? - 19FortyFive (https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/03/switchblade-kamikaze-drones-russias-worst-nightmare/?fbclid=IwAR2fYJIgbsljhpLfW4PFcH1rf4LMwFScp8xlgIRqGz99CmvhVJnJ0AUBMMI)
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. The DoD budget never decreases. It's always increasing.
You might want to say "It generally increases with few exceptions." Or not.
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The story about armies marching into Moscow of late ended badly.
Armies marching out of Moscow of late haven't exactly been textbook either
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^ terrified of COVID....fearless when it comes to potential nuclear war....:043:
I'm beginning to think you're 12 years old. In all seriousness.
I simply said that Putin can do whatever he wants, citing everyone's mentioning he has nukes. Not fearless when it comes to nuclear war. Just that because he has them, he gets to do whatever he wants.....WHICH IS WHAT IS HAPPENEING.
Then many laugh or say I'm wrong....despite what's actually happening. But I'm the stupid one.
It's a big poker game and he keeps going "all-in" with a full house. The answer isn't to fold every time. It is to call when you have the best hand, which we do....we always do, every hand.
We're lucky he's "only" invading Ukraine. What if it was Poland? What would be different BASED ON EVERYONE HERE SAYING "HE HAS NUKES, SO WE CAN'T GET INVOLVED"?? What would be different if it was Turkey or Finland? Even if he invades a NATO country, HE STILL HAS NUKES.
According to this board, we'd still have no choice but to shrug and donate money to the children of the poor.
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Also, suggesting everyone get vaccinated is apparently being "terrified of covid."
Your'e a fucking peach.
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We're lucky he's "only" invading Ukraine. What if it was Poland? What would be different BASED ON EVERYONE HERE SAYING "HE HAS NUKES, SO WE CAN'T GET INVOLVED"?? What would be different if it was Turkey or Finland? Even if he invades a NATO country, HE STILL HAS NUKES.
According to this board, we'd still have no choice but to shrug and donate money to the children of the poor.
Poland or Turkey (but not Finland) obviously would be an Article 5 situation, and Putin knows it. It's also rational, I think, to try and avoid any kind of nuclear exchange. I'm not clear what you are recommending we do here. Do you think the US should be directly militarily involved in Ukraine, e.g., with our forces engaged with Russian forces?
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I've simply stated (a number of times) that Putin can do whatever he wants. That got pushback, but also included him having nukes........to be honest, I have no idea what everyone else is thinking.
If I'm understanding everyone here correctly:
a - he can't do whatever he wants
yet
b - he has nukes, so we can't do anything militarily
.
Thus my lack of clarity with the voices arguing with mine.
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Hypersonic missle now
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I don’t know what OAM wants the US to do here.
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I've simply stated (a number of times) that Putin can do whatever he wants. That got pushback, but also included him having nukes........to be honest, I have no idea what everyone else is thinking.
If I'm understanding everyone here correctly:
a - he can't do whatever he wants
yet
b - he has nukes, so we can't do anything militarily
.
Thus my lack of clarity with the voices arguing with mine.
Simple. What we have on the table to do if Putin attacks a NATO member is a much different strategic choice than if he attacks a non-NATO country that is frankly of no relevant strategic value to the US.
If he attacks a NATO member, we're bound by treaty to defend them militarily. Which is why he's not attacking a NATO member.
If he attacks a non-NATO country, it doesn't mean he "can do whatever he wants", it means that unless we want to escalate the situation with him that it is basically ENSURED to develop into World War III, we are choosing to limit our responses to non-military responses.
This isn't hard.
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So how many non-NATO countries can Russia invade before we DO something?
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What should we do?
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So how many non-NATO countries can Russia invade before we DO something?
Again, you do realize that we're doing things, right?
Pretty significant economic sanctions, multinational companies ceasing all operations in Russia, turning them into a diplomatic pariah nearly worldwide...
Now, maybe you say that's not enough? What is it that you're proposing that we do, and what are your prediction for the outcome if we do what you want?
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I think we're doing the right thing AND I think Putin can do whatever he wants.
I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here, because this was an unprovoked invasion and there's no guarantee it ends here (except for the difficulty Russia seems to be having, which makes it more likely it's a one-off for the foreseeable future).
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Oh, never mind.
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I'm pointing out that this 'we can't attack Russia because it's just Ukraine' is interesting. What if Russia invaded Japan? Ireland? A country with oil?
I just think the attitude here would be different.
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I'm pointing out that this 'we can't attack Russia because it's just Ukraine' is interesting. What if Russia invaded Japan? Ireland? A country with oil?
I just think the attitude here would be different.
Its a matter of just how much do you want to live
How much do you want society as we know it to exist
Pretty easy to talk tough until you look death in the eye
There is a line I just hope Russia doesnt cross it
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Seems pretty pathetic that the whole world can be held hostage by 1 man. I don't think Russia proper would start a nuke war. If it's 1 guy who would, it seems like a good idea to erase that guy off the planet.
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Seems pretty pathetic that the whole world can be held hostage by 1 man. I don't think Russia proper would start a nuke war. If it's 1 guy who would, it seems like a good idea to erase that guy off the planet.
well we would beam him up but our transporter is broken
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So we hear about Russia and China hacking us and this and that..........are we doing it back at them? As effectively? Do we not hear about it because it looks bad?
I'd like weekly stories about how different sectors of Russia's society is going haywire, due to American hackers.
I'm afraid we're not doing it.
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I wonder how many food tasters Putin has.
Wonder what they are paid.
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might be paid nothing
not gonna live long enuff to spend it anyway
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Ummmm...
a) it is a war.
b) NO US President would risk nukes going off in Manhattan or LA for Ukraine. Not one. Not even the current idiot in office. Even if the chance is 1% Putin would do that- or even less than 1% - not a risk any President can take. ABM's are for the most part worthless crap that have zero shot at stopping an ICBM loaded with nuclear warheads.
This is not what I envisioned in my prior post about enjoying the back and forth, because what you just said is purely political garbage.
I recognize in a later post you castigate Bush, not by name, by policy. Cut out the political garbage from your posts. Biden, whatever his weaknesses in joining Trump's withdrawal from Afghanistan has been masterful in almost all his involvement with the Ukrainian situation.
That said, what I just said shouldn't be said here. So knock it off, and return to civil discourse.
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Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko says Putin is 'in better shape than ever' and 'a completely sane, healthy person' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/belarusian-president-alexander-lukashenko-says-putin-is-in-better-shape-than-ever-and-a-completely-sane-healthy-person/ar-AAVhiL3?ocid=msedgntp)
This article, and Lukashenko saying Putin is completely sane, is like Dick Vitale predicting Iowa is going to the Final Four in 2022. Putin/USSR/Russian Federation was eliminated in the round of 64.
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So we hear about Russia and China hacking us and this and that..........are we doing it back at them? As effectively? Do we not hear about it because it looks bad?
I'd like weekly stories about how different sectors of Russia's society is going haywire, due to American hackers.
I'm afraid we're not doing it.
I am taking precautions at my business to avoid disruption. I have not heard of major hacks against the U.S. during the conflict. There have been hacks of Russian news services to place truthful information on them. If we are not subject of big attacks we do not want to attack by cyber and risk big attacks.
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If the US is hacking others, it wouldn't be advertised. The US is obviously more vulnerable because our economy is so computerized, so "we" likely spend more on defense, public and private, than most other countries. It is thought Israel has been hacking Iran for some years now.
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Isreal is thought to be very good at cyber stuff
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Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko says Putin is 'in better shape than ever' and 'a completely sane, healthy person' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/belarusian-president-alexander-lukashenko-says-putin-is-in-better-shape-than-ever-and-a-completely-sane-healthy-person/ar-AAVhiL3?ocid=msedgntp)
This article, and Lukashenko saying Putin is completely sane, is like Dick Vitale predicting Iowa is going to the Final Four in 2022. Putin/USSR/Russian Federation was eliminated in the round of 64.
sane people can make poor choices
like Dickie V
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Russia seems not to be able to "gain ground" any more, maybe they get some in bits and pieces, and have resolved merely to subject Ukraine to more and more damage, I surmise they think that will cause Ukrainians to quit lest they get bombed into oblivion. I suspect this is wrong. It could possibly influence Ukranian negotiators to be more willing to take harsher terms I suppose in return for a cease fire and stand in place and quit bombing. Maybe.
Russia seems to have dug a rather vast hole they can't get out of.
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Russia seems to have dug a rather vast hole they can't get out of.
(https://i.imgur.com/zFqgyaa.png)
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Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko says Putin is 'in better shape than ever' and 'a completely sane, healthy person' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/belarusian-president-alexander-lukashenko-says-putin-is-in-better-shape-than-ever-and-a-completely-sane-healthy-person/ar-AAVhiL3?ocid=msedgntp)
This article, and Lukashenko saying Putin is completely sane, is like Dick Vitale predicting Iowa is going to the Final Four in 2022. Putin/USSR/Russian Federation was eliminated in the round of 64.
A stable genius, one might say?
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With Russian propaganda, every accusation ends up being a confession.
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1505289250387943425?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1505289250387943425%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1505289250387943425
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Zelenskyy getting some pushback from Israeli officials over his zoom speech to the Knesset. People really need to stop comparing sh*t to the holocaust and every strongman "bad guy" to Hitler. It's ignorant and lazy and cheap. Beyond ignorant and lazy and cheap, really.
https://twitter.com/AmySpiro/status/1505587153836904452?s=20&t=fyrSA0FtVC1RYgh0A5n5Ig
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What specifically did he say to minimize the Holocaust? Quotes?
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What specifically did he say to minimize the Holocaust? Quotes?
Zelensky compares the current war in Ukraine to the Holocaust, saying that "our people are now wandering the world and looking for a place the same way that you once wandered."
Zelensky keeps up Holocaust analogies, referencing bombing of Babi Yar, saying Russia is using Nazi terminology, referencing "the final solution."
Zelensky, as he has in every speech to foreign parliaments, criticizes Israel for not providing enough support -- not providing military aid.
"You have to ask yourselves these questions, and live with the answers to these questions."
Zelensky says that Ukrainians helped Jews during the Holocaust, and many Ukrainians are among The Righteous Among the Nations.
"The people of Israel now have a choice to make."
Apparently, a lot of Israeli officials also were not thrilled with Zelenskyy not mentioning or referencing his own Jewish heritage or family even once in his speech to the Knesset, and also his/Ukraine's complete white-washing of Stepan Bandera- a Ukrainian extreme right-wing ultra-nationalist Nazi collaborator who was responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jews in Ukraine.
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He's simply trying to pinpoint as many countries as he can into actually helping his country. Every attempt isn't going to be perfect, he's grasping at every possible straw.
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He's simply trying to pinpoint as many countries as he can into actually helping his country. Every attempt isn't going to be perfect, he's grasping at every possible straw.
he's been getting plenty of help.
the only way he can actually beat Russia is if other countries get involved in that war directly. not gonna happen.
best they can do is fight the russians as hard as they can and hold them off for as long as they can in order to get a better deal when it comes to negotiation time. there is zero way in which they win this war, they'll have to negotiate their way out of it.
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he's been getting plenty of help.
the only way he can actually beat Russia is if other countries get involved in that war directly. not gonna happen.
best they can do is fight the russians as hard as they can and hold them off for as long as they can in order to get a better deal when it comes to negotiation time. there is zero way in which they win this war, they'll have to negotiate their way out of it.
Right, but this is what he's grasping at.
I think he just might want his people to stop being killed, huh?
All the murdered women and children probably understand the NATO thing, right? They get it.
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Right, but this is what he's grasping at.
I think he just might want his people to stop being killed, huh?
Nih-GO-she-Ay-Shun.
He knows full well by now that Israel, US/NATO, and a coalition of nations aren't coming to save him.
His only option at this point to stop that from happening is to negotiate the best deal he can.
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I'm not seeing where he minimized the Holocaust. Maybe he drew some rather vague analogies.
The current Russian proposals to end the war almost certainly include putting their guy in charge, a la Belarus.
And other things of course. They might as well just cave totally.
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Once that's wrapped up, which country is next?
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Once that's wrapped up, which country is next?
Alaska.
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I'm not seeing where he minimized the Holocaust. Maybe he drew some rather vague analogies.
The current Russian proposals to end the war almost certainly include putting their guy in charge, a la Belarus.
And other things of course. They might as well just cave totally.
that's your opinion. Some Israeli officials, well, have a different opinion.
I have not heard of any Russian proposal that states Zelensky must go, have you?
They can't beat Russia. They don't have the numbers. But the more damage they inflict on Russia and the more they halt/slow Russia the better the deal they'll probably be able to make.
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I doubt we've heard any full Russian proposal. But I can't imagine how they would leave a rump Ukraine state with Zelensky in charge. They want the "Nazis" gone.
I'd opine minimizing the Holocaust would mean saying something that includes the term "Holocaust" in it. The Diaspora is something different from the Holocaust.
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I doubt we've heard any full Russian proposal. But I can't imagine how they would leave a rump Ukraine state with Zelensky in charge. They want the "Nazis" gone.
I'd opine minimizing the Holocaust would mean saying something that includes the term "Holocaust" in it. The Diaspora is something different from the Holocaust.
Yeah, or maybe they want the real-life actual nazis like C14 and Azov that are in the Ukraine military gone, and not the political leadership? I don't know. Seems to be that's what they seem to be suggesting at the moment, as high level peace talks between the two countries have been mainly centered around Ukraine denouncing their NATO intentions (by altering constitution and a binding declaration), becoming a neutral country ala Switzerland and demilitarizing - they do not seem to be demanding anything about Zelensky or his government being overthrown and displaced.
NATO member Turkey seems to be playing a huge part in these negotiations, and Turkish foreign minister Mevlut Cavusoglu says he believes both parties are close to an agreement. Hope to god he's right.
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this Adam Kinzinger right-wing fool is a psychopath. How do stupid people like this continually get elected and why is this guy popping up all over cable news as a hero now? Jesus. This guy is publicly pushing for starting World War III. He's a traitor to his own country and should be tried as such.
Someone also might want to tell his stupid ass the US also has and also used thermobaric weapons very recently in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria. Is NATO going to come in and destroy our thermobaric weapons?
https://twitter.com/braxton_mccoy/status/1505628583900827648?s=20&t=F1g7rzUquQfYt051DOVUNA
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dickface putin is a lying sack of shit and I don't see any reason to believe he actually wants to negotiate with the Ukrainians for anything other than their complete capitulation, which of course isn't going to happen.
This certainly doesn't sound like a message from someone that legitimately wants to negotiate:
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1505663919746125831?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1505663919746125831%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fkamilkazani%2Fstatus%2F1505663919746125831
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dickface putin is a lying sack of shit and I don't see any reason to believe he actually wants to negotiate with the Ukrainians for anything other than their complete capitulation, which of course isn't going to happen.
This certainly doesn't sound like a message from someone that legitimately wants to negotiate:
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1505663919746125831?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1505663919746125831%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fkamilkazani%2Fstatus%2F1505663919746125831
jesus, so, that's not good.
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jesus, so, that's not good.
Pretty freaking terrible. So heartbreaking.
I'm willing to cut OAM and others plenty of slack for being horrified and wanting the US to intercede and become directly involved. Intellectually I understand why we can't, but it doesn't change my feelings of empathy for those who are needlessly suffering.
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Zelensky in charge will not happen
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probably the best recent article I've seen on the Neo-Nazi issue in Ukraine....
https://unherd.com/2022/03/the-truth-about-ukraines-nazi-militias/
The Truth About Ukraine’s Far-Right Militias
Russia has empowered dangerous factions in Zelenskyy's army
Like any war, but perhaps more than most, the war in Ukraine has seen a bewildering barrage of claims and counter-claims made by the online supporters of each side. Truth, partial truths and outright lies compete for dominance in the media narrative. Vladimir Putin’s claim that Russia invaded Ukraine to “de-Nazify” the country is surely one of the clearest examples. The Russian claim that the Maidan revolution of 2014 was a “fascist coup” and that Ukraine is a Nazi state has been used for years by Putin and his supporters to justify his occupation of Crimea and support for Russian-speaking separatists in the country’s east, winning many online adherents.
But the Russian claim is false: Ukraine is a genuine liberal-democratic state, though an imperfect one, with free elections that produce significant changes of power, including the election, in 2019, of the liberal-populist reformer, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Ukraine is, unequivocally, not a Nazi state: the Russian casus belli is a lie. And yet, there is a danger that the understandable desire by Ukrainian and Western commentators not to provide ammunition for Russian propaganda has led to an over-correction — and one that may not ultimately serve Ukraine’s best interests.
During one recent news bulletin on BBC Radio 4, the correspondent referred to “Putin’s baseless claim that the Ukrainian state supports Nazis”. This is, itself, disinformation: it is an observable fact, which the BBC itself has previously reported on accurately and well, that the Ukrainian state has, since 2014, provided funding, weapons and other forms of support to extreme Right-wing militias, including neo-nazi ones. This is not a new or controversial observation. Back in 2019, I spent time in Ukraine interviewing senior figures in the constellation of state-backed extreme Right-wing groups for Harper’s magazine; they were all quite open about their ideology and plans for the future.
Indeed, some of the best coverage of Ukraine’s extreme Right-wing groups has come from the open-source intelligence outlet Bellingcat, which is not known for a favourable attitude towards Russian propaganda. Bellingcat’s excellent reporting of this under-discussed topic over the past few years has largely focused on the Azov movement, Ukraine’s most powerful extreme Right-wing group, and the one most favoured by the state’s largesse.
Over the past few years, Bellingcat researchers have explored Azov’s outreach effort to American white nationalists and its funding by the Ukrainian state to teach “patriotic education” and to support demobilised veterans; it has looked into Azov’s hosting of neo-nazi black metal music festivals, and its support of the exiled, anti-Putin Russian neo-nazi group Wotanjugend — practitioners of a very marginal form of esoteric Nazism, who share space with Azov in their Kyiv headquarters, fight alongside them in the front line, and have also played a role translating and disseminating a Russian-language version of the Christchurch shooter’s manifesto. Unfortunately, Bellingcat’s invaluable coverage of Ukraine’s extreme-Right ecosystem has not been updated since the current hostilities began, despite the war with Russia providing these groups with something of a renaissance.
The Azov movement was founded in 2014 by Andriy Biletsky, former leader of the Ukrainian neo-Nazi group Patriot of Ukraine, during the battle for control of Kyiv’s central Independence Square during the Maidan Revolution against the country’s Russia-leaning, elected president Viktor Yanukovych. Back in 2010, Biletsky claimed that it would one day be Ukraine’s role to “lead the white races of the world in a final crusade… against Semite-led untermenschen“. The revolution, and the war which followed, would give him the national stage for which he had so long craved.
Alongside other far-Right groups, such as Right Sector, the nascent Azov movement played an outside role in the fighting against Ukrainian security police which left 121 dead and secured the success of the revolution. Acquiring control of a large property, just off Independence Square, from the Ministry of Defence, Azov turned the building, now named Cossack House, into its Kyiv headquarters and recruiting centre. Though Azov has since toned down its rhetoric, and many of its fighters may be non-ideological and simply attracted by its martial reputation, its activists are often to be seen covered in tattoos of SS totenkopfs and lightning bolt runes, or sporting the Sonnenrad or Black Sun symbol of esoteric Nazism. Derived from a pattern created for Himmler at Wewelsburg castle in Germany, chosen as an occultic Camelot for senior SS officers, the Sonnenrad is like the Wolfsangel rune of the SS Das Reich division one of Azov’s official symbols, worn on their unit patches and on the shields behind which their fighters parade in evocative torchlit ceremonies.
I’ve visited Cossack House multiple times to interview senior Azov figures, including the leader of its National Militia (which provides auxiliary patrolling muscle to Ukraine’s official police force), Ihor Mikhailenko, and Azov’s International Secretary and intellectual linchpin, Olena Semenyaka. It’s an impressive setup: along with classrooms for the educational lectures they provide with state funding, Cossack House is home to Azov’s literary salon and publishing house, Plomin, where glamorous young hipster intellectuals busy themselves with organising Right-wing seminars and book translations, beneath glossy posters of fascist luminaries such as Yukio Mishima, Cornelius Codreanu, and Julius Evola.
But Azov’s power derives from the gun, not their literary efforts. Back in 2014, when the Ukrainian army was weak and under-equipped, Azov volunteers under Biletsky’s leadership fought at the vanguard of the battle against Russian-speaking separatists in the east, reconquering the city of Mariupol, where they are currently under siege. Effective, courageous and highly ideological fighters, Azov’s efforts in the east won them great renown as defenders of the nation, and the support of a grateful Ukrainian state, which incorporated Azov as an official regiment of Ukraine’s National Guard. In this, Azov is believed to have enjoyed the support of Arsen Avakov, a powerful oligarch and Ukraine’s Interior Minister between 2014 and 2019.
Both Ukrainian human rights activists and leaders of rival extreme Right-wing groups have complained to me, in interviews, about the unfair advantage Avakov’s patronage gave the Azov movement in establishing its dominant role in Ukraine’s Right-wing sphere — including official functions as election observers and state-sanctioned auxiliary police. Ukraine is not a Nazi state, but the Ukrainian state’s support — for whatever reasons, valid or otherwise — of neo-Nazi or Nazi-aligned groups makes the country an outlier in Europe. The continent has many extreme Right-wing groups, but only in Ukraine do they possess their own tank and artillery units, with the state’s support.
This awkwardly close relationship between a liberal-democratic state supported by the West and armed proponents of a very different ideology has caused some discomfort in the past for Ukraine’s Western backers. The US Congress has gone back and forth in recent years on whether Azov should be blocked from receiving American arms shipments, with Democrat lawmakers even urging in 2019 that Azov be listed as a global terrorist organisation. In interviews, Semenyaka complained to me that this unease was a result of their listening to Russian propaganda, and insisted that American cooperation with Azov would be beneficial for both parties.
In this, the current war has surely come as a blessed relief for Azov. Biletsky’s attempt to found a political party — the National Corps — met with almost zero success, with even a united bloc of Ukraine’s far- and extreme Right-wing parties failing to clear the very low hurdle for parliamentary representation in the last election: Ukrainian voters simply do not want what they are selling, and reject their worldview. Yet in time of war, Azov and similar groups come to the forefront, with the Russian invasion seemingly reversing the downward spiral that set in for them following Avakov’s resignation due to international pressure. Judging by their social media, Azov’s armed units are expanding: they’re forming new battalions in Kharkiv and Dnipro, a new special forces unit in Kyiv (where Biletsky is organising at least some aspects of the capital’s defence) and local defence militias in western cities such as Ivano-Frankivsk.
Along with other extreme Right-wing groups such as Karpatska Sich (whose militancy against Western Ukraine’s Hungarian-speaking minority, including Roma, has drawn criticism from the Hungarian government), the Eastern Orthodox group Tradition and Order, the neo-Nazi group C14, and the extreme Right-wing militia Freikorps, the Russian invasion has allowed Azov to restore its earlier prominence, burnishing its heroic reputation with its dogged defence of Mariupol alongside regular Ukrainian marines. While just a few weeks ago there was still a concerted Western effort to not directly arm Azov, now they seem to be a prime beneficiary of Western munitions and training: these pictures tweeted by the Belarusian opposition outlet NEXTA show Azov fighters being instructed in the use of British-made NLAW anti-tank munitions by blurred-out trainers.
Similarly, until the Russian invasion, Western governments and news outlets frequently warned of the dangers of Western neo-Nazis and white supremacists gaining combat experience fighting alongside Azov and their allied Nazi subfactions. Yet in the heat of the moment, these concerns seem to have dissipated: a recent photograph of newly-arrived Western volunteers, including Britons, in Kyiv shows Azov’s Olena Semenyaka smiling happily in the background, alongside the Swedish neo-Nazi and former Azov sniper Mikael Skillt. Indeed, Misanthropic Division, a unit of Western neo-Nazis fighting alongside Azov, is currently advertising on Telegram for European militants to join the flow of volunteers and link up with them in Ukraine, “for victory and Valhalla.”
Like Ukraine’s other extreme Right-wing militias, Azov are dogged, disciplined and committed fighters, which is why the weak Ukrainian state has found itself forced to rely upon their muscle during its hours of greatest need: during the Maidan revolution, during the war against separatists from 2014 onwards, and now to fend off the Russian invasion. There has been a certain new-found reticence abroad to speak frankly about their role, no doubt for fear that doing so will provide ammunition for Russian propaganda. This fear is surely misplaced: after all, groups such as Azov are only prominent precisely because of Russia’s meddling in Ukraine. Instead of de-Nazifying the country, Russian aggression has helped solidify the role and presence of extreme Right-wing factions in Ukraine’s military, reinvigorating a waning political force rejected by the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians.
If anything, the primary threat posed by groups such as Azov is not to the Russian state — Russia happily supports extreme Right-wing elements in its Wagner mercenary group and in the separatist republics, after all — nor to Western nations whose disaffected citizens may find themselves drawn to a combat role alongside them. Instead, the threat is to the future stability of the Ukrainian state itself, as Amnesty and Human Rights Watch have long warned. While they may be useful now, in the event of the decapitation or evacuation of Ukraine’s liberal government from Kyiv, perhaps to Poland or Lviv, or more likely, in the event of Zelenskyy being forced by events to sign a peace deal surrendering Ukrainian territory, groups like Azov may find a golden opportunity to challenge what remains of the state and consolidate their own power bases, even if only locally.
Back in 2019, I asked Semenyaka if Azov still saw itself as a revolutionary movement. Thinking carefully, she replied, “We are ready for different scenarios. If Zelenskyy is even worse than [ex-president] Poroshenko, if he is the same kind of populist, but without certain skills, connections and background, then, of course, Ukrainians would be heavily in danger. And we have already developed a plan of what can be done, how we can develop parallel state structures, how we can customise these entry strategies to save the Ukrainian state, if [Zelenskyy] would become a puppet of the Kremlin, for instance. Because it’s quite possible.”
Senior Azov figures have been explicit, over the course of years, in stating that Ukraine has unique potential as a springboard for the “reconquest” of Europe from liberals, homosexuals and immigrants. While their broader continental ambitions may have a very doubtful chance of success, a broken, impoverished and angry postwar Ukraine, or worse, a Ukraine suffering years of bombardment and occupation with large areas outside central government control, would surely be a fertile breeding ground for a form of extreme Right-wing militancy not seen in Europe for many decades.
Right now, Ukraine and Zelenskyy may well need the military capabilities and ideological zeal of nationalist and extreme Right-wing militias simply to fight and win their battle for national survival. But when the war ends, both Zelenskyy and his Western backers must be very careful to ensure that they have not empowered groups whose goals are in direct conflict with the liberal-democratic norms they both pledge adherence to. Arming and funding Azov, Tradition and Order and Karpatska Sich may well be one of the hard choices forced by war, but disarming them must surely be a priority when the war ends.
As we have seen in Syria, there is nothing that radicalises a civilian population more than dispossession, bombing and bombardment. Just as in Syria, there is surely a danger that temporarily empowering extremist factions for their military utility, even indirectly, may have grave and unintended consequences. And in Syria, too, there were strong early taboos among Western commentators in discussing the rise of extremist militias that would later cannibalise the rebel cause, for fear of validating Assad’s propaganda that the rebels were all terrorists: this early reticence did not, in the end, work in the rebels’ favour.
It is not doing Putin’s work for him to observe frankly that there are extremist elements fighting against him in Ukraine: indeed, it is only by carefully monitoring — and perhaps, curtailing — their activities now, that we can ensure they will not deepen Ukraine’s misery in the years to come. For years, liberal Western commentators complained that the Ukrainian state was turning a blind eye to its Right-wing extremist factions: it serves no good purpose for the same commentators to now do the same thing themselves.
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this is nuts to me...why not publicly say it if you're telling Ukraine privately no? what was the point in lying to them for 14 years? that's seriously f**ked up.
https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1505566518016413697?s=20&t=V3A-BoGoDrwHZ-NCPHEkQQ
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I doubt we've heard any full Russian proposal. But I can't imagine how they would leave a rump Ukraine state with Zelensky in charge. They want the "Nazis" gone.
https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1505570676245213187?s=20&t=eX7NrHqqrI0gCkW9sMBnXw
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I think the Russians want a lot more than just the end of the Azov boys. They want Zelensky gone, I think, pretty certainly, and a thug of their own put in charge, plus loss of Donbass and Crimea recognized, and likely more. They want Ukraine neutralized and quiescent so they can extract resources at leisure, Belarus in short. They seem willing to bomb Ukraine back to the stone age to do it.
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I think the Russians want a lot more than just the end of the Azov boys. They want Zelensky gone, I think, pretty certainly, and a thug of their own put in charge, plus loss of Donbass and Crimea recognized, and likely more. They want Ukraine neutralized and quiescent so they can extract resources at leisure, Belarus in short. They seem willing to bomb Ukraine back to the stone age to do it.
No doubt Putin wants all of Ukraine and her natural resources. Ukraine's population seems optional.
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If the Russians agree to any residual Ukraine with Zelensky in charge I'll be quite surprised. I think they want their guy in charge, along with control over future "elections".
If they could simply have Their Guy in charge and be assured that would remain for decades as the case, they would have everything they wanted. It would be Belarus by another name. And yeah, they could rename some streets along the way.
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I wonder if Moldova is next.
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The one assumption you can make, is that everything that comes out of dickface putin, is a lie. Every accusation, a confession.
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I think the Russians want a lot more than just the end of the Azov boys. They want Zelensky gone, I think, pretty certainly, and a thug of their own put in charge, plus loss of Donbass and Crimea recognized, and likely more. They want Ukraine neutralized and quiescent so they can extract resources at leisure, Belarus in short. They seem willing to bomb Ukraine back to the stone age to do it.
NATO member Turkey is a very integral part of these negotiations, and Turkey is saying Putin has accepted the fact that Zelensky is the leader of Ukraine. Are they bullsh*tting Turkey? We'll see. I certainly hope not.
I think any peace solution should have multiple independent election verification organizations involved in free, fair, and open elections and the course of action should be to let the people of Crimea and Donbas vote on what they want to do. You do realize that during the war in Donbas for the last 3-4 years, over 84% of the civilians killed were killed by the armed forces of Ukraine - not the separatists. This is per the UN, as Ukraine has been shelling the hell out of the Donbas for years.
Does Ukraine even have natural resources? Ukraine is #26 in the world in proven natural gas reserves and #51 in the world in proven oil reserves. Seems to me like a stretch to start a major war that resulted in massive Russian losses, Russia's economy being sanctioned to the point of collapse, Russia becoming a pariah state, and something that could spill over into WWIII and nuclear holocaust for control of such little proven reserves. They are't sitting on the kind of reserves the Venezuelans, Saudis or Iranians have.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_natural_gas_proven_reserves
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_proven_oil_reserves
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I wonder if Moldova is next.
God I hope not. I didn't think Putin would invade, but he did. I understand their position of not wanting Ukraine in NATO. They went to the absolute extreme to make sure that doesn't happen, and there is no justification for that.
I just don't see what invading Moldova gets him. All it does is hurt his current effort in Ukraine- where his army has been stretched thin and taken massive losses- and all it does is push the possibility of WWIII closer. The guy doesn't want to fight the US/NATO. He knows they'll annihilate his army. Hence the nuclear threat. If he invades Moldova, I don't think US/NATO will sit back. He's basically got a free pass right now. Let's hope he's not crazy enough to invade another country.
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Unless Russia completely "wins" this war and takes over Ukraine, I don't see any way of going after Moldova. Their demands for a cease-fire include Ukrainian neutrality and demilitarization, and I assume that the Ukrainian demands would require Russian troops withdrawing.
Moldova, being landlocked between Romania and Ukraine, would be hard to invade if your troops are on the other side of the Ukrainian border...
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Remember to view everything the Turkish government says through the lens that Erdogan himself is a tinhorn dictator that fancies himself as the de facto leader of the Muslim world. He's no innocent schoolkid.
Moldova won't be next because the Rooskies have neither the equipment, manpower, logistics, or willpower to put Ukraine down, much less Moldova.
Given the guerilla-type nature of most of the Ukrainian resistance, any Kremlin-installed stooge government won't last a day.
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Hitler wanted Ukraine for its natural resources, they have a lot of proven metal reserves.
If Putin leaves Zelensky in power with "free" elections, I'll be quite surprised. I don't know if they told Turkey this was OK with them or not, but it would surprise me quite a bit.
Mining – UkraineInvest (https://ukraineinvest.gov.ua/industries/mining/#:~:text=Ukraine has extremely rich and,magnesium%2C timber%2C and mercury.)
Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury.
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Unless Russia completely "wins" this war and takes over Ukraine, I don't see any way of going after Moldova. Their demands for a cease-fire include Ukrainian neutrality and demilitarization, and I assume that the Ukrainian demands would require Russian troops withdrawing.
Moldova, being landlocked between Romania and Ukraine, would be hard to invade if your troops are on the other side of the Ukrainian border...
Moldova has an agreement with Ukraine that makes them not landlocked. This could be a problem moving forward.
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Remember to view everything the Turkish government says through the lens that Erdogan himself is a tinhorn dictator that fancies himself as the de facto leader of the Muslim world. He's no innocent schoolkid.
a) no one said he's innocent. there is no such thing as innocent countries or innocent leaders in the world.
b) Turkey has closed the Turkish straits to Russian battleships. Turkey is a NATO member. As such, they have an interest in this thing not exploding into WWIII, bc as a NATO member, that would mean if it did- they'd have to fight war with Russia.
c) Turkey has been playing a major role in the negotiations.
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Hitler wanted Ukraine for its natural resources, they have a lot of proven metal reserves.
If Putin leaves Zelensky in power with "free" elections, I'll be quite surprised. I don't know if they told Turkey this was OK with them or not, but it would surprise me quite a bit.
Mining – UkraineInvest (https://ukraineinvest.gov.ua/industries/mining/#:~:text=Ukraine has extremely rich and,magnesium%2C timber%2C and mercury.)
Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury.
They grow a lot of food too. Very good agricultural soils.
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Are Ukraine's vast natural resources a real reason behind Russia's invasion? - BusinessToday (https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/world/story/are-ukraines-vast-natural-resources-a-real-reason-behind-russias-invasion-323894-2022-02-25)
Turkey Closes Bosphorus, Dardanelles Straits to Warships - USNI News (https://news.usni.org/2022/02/28/turkey-closes-bosphorus-dardanelles-straits-to-warships)
Turkey has closed off the Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits to warships from any country, whether or not they border the Black Sea, following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
The strait closures will still allow warships through if they are returning to a home base in the Black Sea, according to reporting from Naval News (https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/02/turkey-closes-the-dardanelles-and-bosphorus-to-warships/). This would include Russian ships in the country’s Black Sea Fleet.
However, the decision to restrict warships, a power given to Turkey by the Montreux Convention of 1936, will likely limit Russia’s ability to move ships from its other fleets to the Black Sea.
Nobody operates any battleships any more, technically speaking.
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Hitler wanted Ukraine for its natural resources, they have a lot of proven metal reserves.
If Putin leaves Zelensky in power with "free" elections, I'll be quite surprised. I don't know if they told Turkey this was OK with them or not, but it would surprise me quite a bit.
Mining – UkraineInvest (https://ukraineinvest.gov.ua/industries/mining/#:~:text=Ukraine has extremely rich and,magnesium%2C timber%2C and mercury.)
Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury.
Turkey is saying Putin has accepted Zelensky as the leader of Ukraine. Per Erdogan spokesman quoted in the NYT from an article from two days ago...
Mr. Erdogan spoke to both Mr. Zelensky and Mr. Putin on Thursday to gauge their positions, and Mr. Kalin was on the calls.
[Mr. Kalin] said that Mr. Putin no longer advocated replacing Mr. Zelensky but “now accepts the reality of Zelensky as the leader of the Ukrainian people, whether he likes it or not.”
“I believe that meeting will take place at some point,” Mr. Kalin said. “There will be a peace deal at some point. Of course, we all want this to happen sooner rather than later, but probably Putin thinks that he wants to be in a position of strength when he does that, and not appear to be weak, weakened by either military losses or by the economic sanctions.”
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Z IS currently the leader of Ukraine, no kidding.
If Putin leaves him in place, it will be a tacit admission he lost I think. He might leave him temporarily until he suffers from an unexpected accident, poisoning, or gets voted out and replaced by a Putin crony.
If they are close to some agreement, what is the holdup here? Something is.
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Z IS currently the leader of Ukraine, no kidding.
If Putin leaves him in place, it will be a tacit admission he lost I think. He might leave him temporarily until he suffers from an unexpected accident, poisoning, or gets voted out and replaced by a Putin crony.
If they are close to some agreement, what is the holdup here? Something is.
[Mr. Kalin] said that Mr. Putin no longer advocated replacing Mr. Zelensky but “now accepts the reality of Zelensky as the leader of the Ukrainian people, whether he likes it or not.”
“I believe that meeting will take place at some point,” Mr. Kalin said. “There will be a peace deal at some point. Of course, we all want this to happen sooner rather than later, but probably Putin thinks that he wants to be in a position of strength when he does that, and not appear to be weak, weakened by either military losses or by the economic sanctions.”
According to a high-level Turkish gov't official who has been in on phone calls with Putin and Zelensky, Putin is not advocating replacing Zelensky anymore. According to said Turkish official, the holdup to the agreement appears to be that Putin's army has been taking massive losses and getting the shit kicked out of it- and the sanctions are killing his economy and he doesn't want to appear weak and defeated.
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If the Russians agree to any residual Ukraine with Zelensky in charge I'll be quite surprised. I think they want their guy in charge, along with control over future "elections".
If they could simply have Their Guy in charge and be assured that would remain for decades as the case, they would have everything they wanted. It would be Belarus by another name. And yeah, they could rename some streets along the way.
I just find this whole talk about "elections" amusing and find it strange how everyone seems to just gloss over and completely fail to mention that the US literally hand-picked an interim government in Ukraine after they plotted a coup to overthrow the democratically elected government in Ukraine. A government in which multiple independent outside organizations had verified the elections of said government as free, open, and fair. US plotted to remove a democratically elected President and his government unconstitutionally and then hand-picked it's replacement government, and we're sitting here talking about "elections".
Yanukovych was actually dead set on joining the EU. Until the EU wouldn't negotiate terms with Ukraine and Russia wound up offering them a way better deal. Yanukovych was trying to get a massive $160 billion package from EU. EU offered $828 million, and said take it or leave it. Obviously he was trying to get the best possible deal he could and figured they'd meet him somewhere in the middle. They didn't. EU offered Ukraine less than $1 billion, and the EU/IMF flatly refused any negotiations with Ukraine. They said this is the deal. Period. Take it or leave it. Russia came in and offered Ukraine a $15 billion aid/loan guarantee package (more than 20x what EU was offering), offered to pay higher carrier rates for transferring Russian natural gas through Ukrainian territory, and they also cut the price of Russian natural gas exports to Ukraine by 1/3rd. The decision to cancel the EU negotiations wasn't a unilateral move by Yanukovych either, it was voted on and passed in the Ukraine Parliament.
There were protests after this, but they didn't go critical mass and turn into disaster until....you guessed it....US interferring in the sovereignty of another nation.
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Days after the initial protest, in an attempt to quell the uprising, Yanukovych offered two opposition leaders key positions in his administration - prime minister to Arseniy Yatsenyuk and deputy prime minister for humanitarian affairs to Vitali Klitschko. When they declined, he repealed anti-protest laws and agreed to accelerate the presidential elections (which were due in about one year) to allow the people an opportunity to vote sooner.
While these protests did get bloody, the systems underpinning democratic republics were functioning as intended by forcing Yanukovych to the negotiating table with his constituents and political opponents. One would think it best to let the Ukrainian people work this out, but US foreign policy officials decided otherwise.
US Intervention
A leaked phone call, believed to have taken place on January 28, 2014, between then US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and US Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt revealed that Obama-admin officials were involved in a scheme to oust Ukrainian President Yanukovych and replace his administration with Western allies. The call was discussed in several US-based media outlets though, for the most part, they refrain from discussing its content and instead focus on Nuland’s expletive remark of “Fuck the EU” and highlight that Russian hackers were likely the leak’s source. Then State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki corroborated the legitimacy of the call as she “did not dispute the authenticity of the recording and said that Nuland had apologized to European Union officials for her remarks,” according to Associated Press. Listen to full call here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k
Here are what I believe to be the key quotes from the call and their context and implications:
(00:45) Nuland: “So I don’t think Klitschko should go into the government. I don’t think it’s a good idea. I don’t think it’s necessary.” This is followed by a distressed sigh from Pyatt and he asks for clarification, implying this is his first time hearing this. He later mentions that Nuland should speak to Klitschko one-on-one. (2:06) Pyatt: “just knowing the dynamic that’s been with them where Klitschko’s been the top dog… I think you reaching out directly to him helps with the personality management.”
A couple months prior, Klitschko had announced a campaign for the presidency and early polls showed him as the most popular opposition candidate. During the time of the phone call, he was still campaigning, making headlines in US outlets.
A little over a month later, despite his populist support, Klitschko announced that he would be withdrawing from the race and running for Mayor of Kiev. It appears Nuland was successful in “corner office-ing” him out of national and into local government.
(1:22) Nuland: “I think Yats is the guy who’s got the economic experience, the governing experience.” She’s referring to Arseniy Yatsenuk and emphasizing that he should play a leading role in the new government.
Less than one month later, Yatsenyuk went on to the position of prime minister.
"Yats" promptly signed the long sought-after EU trade agreement that initially started this fiasco.
To illustrate the new regime’s stance on Russia, the following year Yats called on the EU to stop the Russian Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline and tightened immigration policy for Russian citizens entering Ukraine.
(2:48) Nuland: “When I talked to Jeff Feltman this morning, he had a new name for the UN guy - Robert Serry… He’s now gotten both Serry and Ban Ki-moon to agree that Serry could come in Monday or Tuesday. So that would be great to help glue this thing and to have the UN to help glue it.”
A little under a month after this phone call, Yanukovych fled the country due to dwindling support from his allies. This prompted the Verkhovna Rada, a legislative body within the Ukrainian parliament, to claim itself to be “the only legitimate authority in the country” (from a government press release on the matter). In that same press release, “Robert H. Serry informed that the United Nations Organization ‘highly appreciates Ukraine and supports current processes.’”
However, the vote to impeach Yanukovych and elect new officials was illegal under the Ukrainian Constitution. To quote Huffington Post, “It is simply untrue that the Rada followed the procedure laid down in the Ukrainian constitution to impeach and remove a president from power.” For more details check out their article.
Pyatt also mentions the need to “get somebody with an international personality to help midwife this thing” to which Nuland replies she’s been in touch with Obama’s director of policy planning who told her that “Biden’s willing”. So, ironically, Biden himself likely played a key role in getting this vote through.
It’s fairly clear that the subject of Nuland and Pyatt’s conversation was how to influence opposition leaders and leverage ties with the United Nations to legitimize this unconstitutional vote. Such an act, by the way, falls under the definition of a coup. The prescient nature of this conversation, how subsequent events played out in accordance with Nuland’s directives, implies it was not simply a brainstorm session. This was a deliberate attempt to install a Western-friendly regime into a sovereign nation - one sharing a border with Russia just 500 km from Moscow - and it was a successful attempt at that. All because US officials couldn’t settle for neutrality and self-governance; they knew better than the people of Ukraine. Jonathan Marcus of the BBC summed it up well at the time:
"The US says that it is working with all sides in the crisis to reach a peaceful solution, noting that "ultimately it is up to the Ukrainian people to decide their future". However this transcript suggests that the US has very clear ideas about what the outcome should be and is striving to achieve these goals."
Consequences
These acts by the US forever changed the trajectory of Russia-Ukraine relations: The 2013 Russian trade deal was revoked, this pushed Russia into a similar deal with China a few months later, and the following years were filled with periodic announcements of Ukraine’s intentions to join NATO accompanied with showy military exercises like the NATO-sponsored ‘Clear Sky’ event held in Ukraine in 2018. Remember, NATO was created by the US and other Western countries in 1949 with the stated goal to “provide collective security against the Soviet Union.” Given that the Soviet Union hasn’t existed in decades… why does NATO need to exist, let alone expand?! Tensions have continued to fester ever since, culminating in the catalytic spark of today’s conflict when president Volodymyr Zelensky implied that Ukraine might pursue nuclear weapon accumulation if international treaties were unsatisfactory. This was all the justification that Putin needed.
Putin watched in the early 2000s as seven former Soviet Union countries joined NATO. Despite promises by the Clinton administration that NATO would not keep military forces in Eastern Europe permanently, over 20 years later NATO “has about 4,000 troops in multinational battalions, backed by tanks, air defenses and intelligence and surveillance units” across Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and Poland, according to Reuters. Putin tolerated such expansions for decades, and while it was not without complaints and retaliatory acts of his own, he clearly is not a madman intent on re-establishing the Soviet Union.
If you are a US citizen, and if, God willing, the world survives this war, then please, do not continue to tolerate these neo-conservative and neo-liberal establishment politicians. They are on both sides of the aisle - Bush’s, Clinton’s, Obama, Schumer, McConnell, Pelosi, Cheney’s, Anthony Blinken, McCain, John Bolton. It’s a special kind of hubris and naiveté to believe covert and reckless regime change operations will flourish into Western values. The Middle East has paid this price for years and now neo-con machinations are potentially putting the entire planet at risk.
As a funny aside, during the leaked call Pyatt said, “We could land jelly-side up on this one if we move fast.” I think it’s safe to say, after 8 years, which direction the ‘jelly-side’ landed.
https://spaceworms.substack.com/p/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine?s=r
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US really needs to just knock it the f**k off with meddling in the sovereignty of other nations and knock it off with their regime change plans in every corner of the globe. ALL it ever does is fails (Cuba, Venezuela, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan) and just causes what the CIA calls blowback - just winds up biting us and the world in the f**ing ass.
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It makes little sense to me that the holdup is that the Russians are taking massive losses. How does that change, short of a cease fire?
I'll still be surprised if Putin agrees to leaving Z intact, maybe he does initially and has a plan. So what else does Putin want that Ukraine won't deliver?
If Ukraine agrees to all their demands, what's the holdup?
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It makes little sense to me that the holdup is that the Russians are taking massive losses. How does that change, short of a cease fire?
I'll still be surprised if Putin agrees to leaving Z intact, maybe he does initially and has a plan. So what else does Putin want that Ukraine won't deliver?
If Ukraine agrees to all their demands, what's the holdup?
Ukraine probably isn't agreeing to all their demands right now, obviously. Nor should they.
Russia doesn't care about the losses right now, they'll most likely just keep throwing numbers into the meat grinder and going nuts with their bombing. They know Ukraine can't win if they stick to that formula.
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Makes killing tanks easier
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/03/20/elon-musks-satellites-play-critical-role-in-ukraines-defense-ability-to-destroy-putins-sitting-duck-tanks-1215050/?utm_medium=newsletter&utm_source=Get%20response&utm_term=email&utm_content=3-20-22%20JSM%20PM&utm_campaign=james
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So, we're back to my point that WE apparently don't know all the demands and what the hold up really is.
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So, we're back to my point that WE apparently don't know all the demands and what the hold up really is.
brother, unless you're a high level gov't official in US/Turkey/Ukraine/Russia that's been on the inside of these talks - no one knows what all the demands are and how the negotiations are going- all we're doing is guess work on the situation from what little has been revealed.
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How America helped Russian Oligarchs Hide/Steal Billions. very interesting video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO6-jzbFGvQ
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How America helped Russian Oligarchs Hide/Steal Billions. very interesting video...
Interesting but how does this relate to the unjustified Russian invasion of Ukraine
It maybe should be in the In Other News thread
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Interesting but how does this relate to the unjustified Russian invasion of Ukraine
It maybe should be in the In Other News thread
I think it relates as US/EU trying to put the squeeze on the Russian Oligarchs because of the war.
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I think it relates as US/EU trying to put the squeeze on the Russian Oligarchs because of the war.
Seems to me that the main point of the article is that the American system helped build the Oligarchs up
So I guess I missed the part where it talks about putting the squeeze anyone
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It's not just the US and EU, the entire world is putting the squeeze on the oligarchs, other than the typical world bad actors that already align with dickface putin anyway.
And the reason they're doing it is quite simple-- apply as much pressure to the wealthiest in Russia, who we all know are the actual decision-makers, or alternatively, the most likely to have the access necessary to take dickface putin out.
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Seems to me that the main point of the article is that the American system helped build the Oligarchs up
So I guess I missed the part where it talks about putting the squeeze anyone
to be clear, Putin is the one who enabled them to steal wealth from the state- as it's like a mafia outfit there and he's the head crime boss.....but the American tax/legal/banking systems helped them shield their money. The wealthy (net-worth north of $30mm+) and ultra-wealthy (net-worth north of $100m+) have trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars hidden off-shore and out of sight and away from the tax collector.
I think this guy was arguing that if there was ever a time to change the rules/laws and to crack down on the off-shoring and hiding of illicit got gains- now would be the time. This crisis would be the catalyst and if you want to make sure there aren't Oligarchs who can hide their money off-shore and in the West like the Russian Oligarchs have been doing for decades- time to start changing things right now. Biden wants the IRS to track bank accounts with $600 in them instead though. :043:
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I dont think many Oligarchs are manning those tanks
we should worry about not creating more Oligarchs on the In Other News thread
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https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1505925226051346435?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1505925226051346435%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FSamRamani2%2Fstatus%2F1505925226051346435%3Fs%3D2026t%3D8pGg5vNIUa2MtRcRO37cWQ
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https://twitter.com/lapatina_/status/1505951696622608387
https://twitter.com/lapatina_/status/1505628897861419008
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Fucking sad and disgusting.
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https://twitter.com/lapatina_/status/1505951696622608387
jesus that's bad. could pass for some neighborhoods and streets in Detroit in the winter.
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Fucking sad and disgusting.
yeah and very stupid. Apparently Mariupol was mostly Russian speaking and very Pro-Russian. They won't be/aren't anymore.
When you bomb and destroy peoples cities and kill their friends, brothers, sisters, wives, husbands, uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews, parents, children, and grand-parents- they tend to wind up hating you.
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It's like wanting to rob a car, but taking a hammer to every body panel, knocking out every window and light, then cutting the brake lines before you drive off with it.
WTF???
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It's like wanting to rob a car, but taking a hammer to every body panel, knocking out every window and light, then cutting the brake lines before you drive off with it.
WTF???
https://youtu.be/p79lKeQMBPc
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I can't see that without highlighting the LEGENDARRY "edited for TV" version: DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS LARRY? DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS? DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU FIND A STRANGER IN THE ALPS?!?
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https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1506113379118764033?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1506113379118764033%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnexta_tv%2Fstatus%2F1506113379118764033%3Fs%3D21
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https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1506259923402907658?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1506259923402907658%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FWSJ%2Fstatus%2F1506259923402907658
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Consequences. Yeah, OK. Like what?
"There will be consequences from that on the international scale," Kirby warned regarding the conclusions of the probe. "What needs to happen now is this war needs to end. Mr. Putin always had diplomatic options. He didn't have to do this."
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think I'll stock up on frozen pizzas
Speaking of which, here's your daily reminder on how fragile government stability can be: According to Michael Tanchum of the Middle East Institute, "keeping the price of Egypt's staple food affordable has been the bedrock of regime stability" for 60 years.
https://twitter.com/IBTimes/status/1504443119382765572
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Speaking of which, here's your daily reminder on how fragile government stability can be: According to Michael Tanchum of the Middle East Institute, "keeping the price of Egypt's staple food affordable has been the bedrock of regime stability" for 60 years.
https://twitter.com/IBTimes/status/1504443119382765572
Bread and circuses. Gov't can do pretty much whatever they want as long as people are eating and entertained...
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They have no bread?
Let them eat circus animals!
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https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1506273711032348674?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1506273711032348674%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKevinRothrock%2Fstatus%2F1506273711032348674%3Fs%3D2026t%3DrHBndffrkbC_9ldobLElrQ
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Or espionage
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so just to recap here, Russia is obviously the bad guys here, but man Ukraine has been moving further and further from openness and democracy since US overthrew their government in 2014.
Zelensky just moved to ban 11 political parties in Ukraine, including the Opposition Platform for Life party, which came second in the recent elections, currently holds 44 seats (roughly 10% of all seats) in the 450-seat Ukrainian Parliament, and is the largest opposition party to Zelensky's Servant of the People party.
Here are some excerpts from a recent article on this written by a Ukrainian author/sociologist Volodymyr Ishchenko who works at a university in Berlin and wrote a book about the Euromaidan protests in 2013-2014; link (https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/21/why-did-ukraine-suspend-11-pro-russia-parties)
"The suspensions have more to do with the post-Euromaidan polarisation of Ukrainian politics than genuine security concerns related to the Russian invasion.
These parties do command significant public support. For example, three of the recently suspended parties participated in the parliamentary elections in 2019 and combined received about 2.7 million votes (18.3 percent) and in the most recent polls conducted before Russia’s invasion, these parties collectively scored about 16-20 percent of the vote.
So, this isn't good. Has been a pattern in Ukraine however. They've been banning parties, censoring media, and arresting opposition since 2014 without much evidence/due process. They have now banned the #1 and #2 largest opposition parties in the country. They banned the #2 largest opposition party last year. No banning of ultra-right wing parties or disbanding of state sponsored neo-nazi militias/police though....
https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1505963988470968328?s=20&t=nIk_1dQX6OK_fX4R_6A_hw
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CNN getting in on the action of promoting and doing PR for neo-nazis. Couldn't just leave it to MSNBC....
https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1505903965703127041?s=20&t=nIk_1dQX6OK_fX4R_6A_hw
https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1505904564494610437?s=20&t=nIk_1dQX6OK_fX4R_6A_hw
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seems like Hillary Clinton (when she went on MSNBC and almost cheerleading "bleeding Russia") isn't the only DC elite publicly letting the cat out of the bag...seems like US plan is to use Ukraine as a quasi-Afghanistan to bleed Russia.
https://twitter.com/Bershidsky/status/1506329273262563328?s=20&t=nIk_1dQX6OK_fX4R_6A_hw
https://twitter.com/yashalevine/status/1506337825242894337?s=20&t=dfECDVOdjeOQinELBdAROg
https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1506350013701627910?s=20&t=dfECDVOdjeOQinELBdAROg
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so just to recap here, Russia is obviously the bad guys here, but man Ukraine has been moving further and further from openness and democracy since US overthrew their government in 2014.
Zelensky just moved to ban 11 political parties in Ukraine, including the Opposition Platform for Life party, which came second in the recent elections, currently holds 44 seats (roughly 10% of all seats) in the 450-seat Ukrainian Parliament, and is the largest opposition party to Zelensky's Servant of the People party.
Here are some excerpts from a recent article on this written by a Ukrainian author/sociologist Volodymyr Ishchenko who works at a university in Berlin and wrote a book about the Euromaidan protests in 2013-2014; link (https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/21/why-did-ukraine-suspend-11-pro-russia-parties)
"The suspensions have more to do with the post-Euromaidan polarisation of Ukrainian politics than genuine security concerns related to the Russian invasion.
These parties do command significant public support. For example, three of the recently suspended parties participated in the parliamentary elections in 2019 and combined received about 2.7 million votes (18.3 percent) and in the most recent polls conducted before Russia’s invasion, these parties collectively scored about 16-20 percent of the vote.
So, this isn't good. Has been a pattern in Ukraine however. They've been banning parties, censoring media, and arresting opposition since 2014 without much evidence/due process. They have now banned the #1 and #2 largest opposition parties in the country. They banned the #2 largest opposition party last year. No banning of ultra-right wing parties or disbanding of state sponsored neo-nazi militias/police though....
https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1505963988470968328?s=20&t=nIk_1dQX6OK_fX4R_6A_hw
Agree that obviously this invasion is a tragedy. Russia sucks and Putin is a dickface. (Utee is teaching me a new language😂)
As for Zelensky- he would fit right in here in Murica
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I dont feel a bit sorry for Russia even if the dems might have a different reason for supporting sanctions. All Putin has to do is pull out of Ukraine and our relations might begin to heal. I do want to see Putin charged for war crimes.
As far as Ukraine's actions concerning a reduction of democracy I dont like it but am willing to give them a temp pass until this thing is over. Even Lincoln took away some individual rights during the Civil War.
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in I'll take...Ukraine is an insanely corrupt country for $400....
An ex-deputy of former US sock puppet/Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk ("Yats" as US diplomat/coup extraordinaire Victoria Nuland lovingly referred to him as) and former member of the Ukrainian Parliament- Igor Kotvitsky - of the pro-west nationalist People’s Front party- the party started by "Yats" - you know- the US hand-picked sock puppet in the coup to overthrow the democratically elected government of Viktor Yanukovych - has been caught trying to flee Ukraine with $28 million US in cash and another 1.3 million Euros in cash.
https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1505699645959331840?s=20&t=8NaCBwGK4RzVc2YXQNT9yQ
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All that, and still not anywhere close to as corrupt as dickface putin's Russia.
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I dont feel a bit sorry for Russia even if the dems might have a different reason for supporting sanctions. All Putin has to do is pull out of Ukraine and our relations might begin to heal. I do want to see Putin charged for war crimes.
I feel sorry for average Russians who did not want this war, and who are getting crushed by the sanctions. Obviously I feel worse for the Ukrainians who actually being killed and having their homes and cities destroyed. It's just an ugly, sad, awful tragedy all the way around.
Putin is not going to be charged with war crimes. And US can't and won't call for that either, for obvious reasons. Throwing stones, glass houses and all that. US also doesn't even recognize the ICC or ICJ as legitimiate.
As far as Ukraine's actions concerning a reduction of democracy I dont like it but am willing to give them a temp pass until this thing is over. Even Lincoln took away some individual rights during the Civil War.
it's very concerning, and it's a trend in that country unfortunately, not something that just popped up overnight because of this war. My gut is they are probably using the war as an excuse/pretext to crackdown on opposition and seize more authority/power as governments tend to do. Suspending some civil rights and imposing martial law during a war is not that uncommon. Flat out banning your political opposition parties- not sure on that one. I don't recall Lincoln banning political parties during the Civil War.
Last year the Zelenskyy government banned the second largest opposition party in Ukraine. They have now just banned the largest opposition party now in Ukraine, a party that holds 10% of the seats in Parliament and gets around 20% of the vote. Can't just go around banning the #1 and #2 parties that are your biggest opposition. Governments that seize power, rarely if ever let go of said power. That's why point blank, you can't let them have more and expanding power in the first place.
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All that, and still not anywhere close to as corrupt as dickface putin's Russia.
I have no idea how they come up with these corruption indexes, but they're not that far apart in them. They rank 180 countries. #180 is the most corrupt, #1 is the least corrupt. South Sudan is most corrupt at #180, Denmark is least corrupt at #1.
https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/corruption-part-II.htm
Ukraine - ranked #121, Russia - ranked #133.
You're probably right though as Russia is a much bigger and wealthier nation (100+ million more people, GDP roughly 10x the size) and it's entire system has been built on corruption since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
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I have no idea how they come up with these corruption indexes, but they're not that far apart in them. They rank 180 countries. #180 is the most corrupt, #1 is the least corrupt. South Sudan is most corrupt at #180, Denmark is least corrupt at #1.
https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/corruption-part-II.htm
Ukraine - ranked #121, Russia - ranked #133.
You're probably right though as Russia is a much bigger and wealthier nation (100+ million more people, GDP roughly 10x the size) and it's entire system has been built on corruption since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
That index sounds stupid and I have no idea who "nationsonline.org" is nor do I recognize their authority. Any ranking that doesn't have dickface putin's Russia firmly in the bottom 1%, is inherently wrong.
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it's the Corruption Perceptions Index from the international NGO Transparency International, that site is just listing their rankings.
I guess a bunch of university professors, business leaders, and government officials around the world come up with it. No clue how they go about doing that.
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it's the Corruption Perceptions Index from the international NGO Transparency International, that site is just listing their rankings.
I guess a bunch of university professors, business leaders, and government officials around the world come up with it. No clue how they go about doing that.
Well if government officials and university professors aren't in touch with reality, then I don't know who is... :)
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My guess is that it's probably not that different than football S&P rankings.
You can quibble about some things here or there, but even if they're 10 spots off either way, Ukraine and Russia are both pretty corrupt.
But as with anything, that doesn't excuse Putin for invading a sovereign nation, so it's kinda moot.
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this is outrageous....
https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1506315486849601540?s=20&t=42vt_6948R5Bz0GpQwOkyg
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That's been one of the more surprising things about all of this, for me. A Russian woman working for state television brazenly holds up a sign in the background of a live broadcast, blasting the Russian war, and is taken in for a couple of days and then released. And then someone else reports a fact that is unpleasant and disruptive, but not a direct indictment of dickface putin's actions, and faces 10 years in prison.
They're not even being consistent in their internal messaging on the home front, which to me, indicates there are some pretty sizeable cracks in the establishment.
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Mdot the logic of your discussion is like if someone blows up your chevy truck and your neighbor starts telling you what a dishonest company General Motors is.
Does that diminish the crime that was done?
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Mdot the logic of your discussion is like if someone blows up your chevy truck and your neighbor starts telling you what a dishonest company General Motors is.
Does that diminish the crime that was done?
yeah, not really.
US just destroyed 80% of buildings and infrastructure in Raqqa - a city of 300,000 people - and turned it into a parking lot a few years ago. US has been bombing 7 different countries continuously for going on two decades now. US launched two major illegal invasions & occupations of two countries in the last 20 years alone. Are Bush and Cheney going to also be prosecuted for war crimes? Yeah, I don't think so.
Make no mistake about it, what Russia is doing is disgusting and inhumane, and even if their illegal invasion of Ukraine continues for another few months (hope it ends sooner) - and you wanted to stack body counts- it's not even close- US would still win that one in a landslide going away just based on Iraq alone where over 1 million Iraqis are estimated to have died.
Two major points:
A) US can't (and likely won't) call for ICC to prosecute for war crimes - no one in the world will take them seriously.
B) US doesn't even recognize the ICC as legitimate. Neither does Russia. So the whole "prosecute them" for war crimes thing, is a moot point.
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this isn't going to be a popular article, but from Newsweek, as mainstream as it gets. published today.
https://www.newsweek.com/putins-bombers-could-devastate-ukraine-hes-holding-back-heres-why-1690494
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yeah, not really.
US just destroyed 80% of buildings and infrastructure in Raqqa - a city of 300,000 people - and turned it into a parking lot a few years ago. US has been bombing 7 different countries continuously for going on two decades now. US launched two major illegal invasions & occupations of two countries in the last 20 years alone. Are Bush and Cheney going to also be prosecuted for war crimes? Yeah, I don't think so.
Make no mistake about it, what Russia is doing is disgusting and inhumane, and even if their illegal invasion of Ukraine continues for another few months (hope it ends sooner) - and you wanted to stack body counts- it's not even close- US would still win that one in a landslide going away just based on Iraq alone where over 1 million Iraqis are estimated to have died.
Two major points:
A) US can't (and likely won't) call for ICC to prosecute for war crimes - no one in the world will take them seriously.
B) US doesn't even recognize the ICC as legitimate. Neither does Russia. So the whole "prosecute them" for war crimes thing, is a moot point.
Yup.
The U.S. is the world's abusive husband.
We're simultaneously beating them most days and confused that they don't love us on the others.
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How can you simultaneously be doing things that you do on different days?
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usually love the money enuff to put up with the beatings
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Hey I'm all for leaving the rest of the world to its own devices. Zero skin off my back telling Europe and Asia to go pound sand. And also, don't come crying to us when you shit in your own dinner bowl.
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this isn't going to be a popular article, but from Newsweek, as mainstream as it gets. published today.
https://www.newsweek.com/putins-bombers-could-devastate-ukraine-hes-holding-back-heres-why-1690494
Meh, like every other article, there's some fact, some decent observation, and a whole lot of bullshit.
This statement:
""I know that the news keeps repeating that Putin is targeting civilians, but there is no evidence that Russia is intentionally doing so," says the DIA analyst. "In fact, I'd say that Russian could be killing thousands more civilians if it wanted to.""
These two things are not mutually exclusive and the fact is that Russia is intentionally targeting civilians, we have thousands of accounts of it at this point. Sure, they could be killing more, but that doesn't negate or excuse the fact that they are intentionally slaughtering civilians and they are leveling cities. These are indisputable facts.
The rest of the article reads the same way, a little bit of fact, a little bit of reasonable analysis, and a whole lot of bullshit.
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How can you simultaneously be doing things that you do on different days?
Because days are episodic and consciousness is ongoing, friend.
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The heads begin to roll in Russia | TheHill (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/598799-the-heads-begin-to-roll-in-russia)
Fairly interesting.
In Ukraine, nothing has changed, has it? More destruction, more lack of movement.
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U.S. Air Force pilots watch as their Ukrainian friends fight for their lives (taskandpurpose.com) (https://taskandpurpose.com/news/ukraine-air-force-pilots-fight-russia/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1UHu_lCuw6ZJ_2ujK2oNv_X-8g9BaH4312fdc4m398OQ2Cm8KhDgq_5Uk)
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The heads begin to roll in Russia | TheHill (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/598799-the-heads-begin-to-roll-in-russia)
Fairly interesting.
In Ukraine, nothing has changed, has it? More destruction, more lack of movement.
Well we've all laughed at the melting snow-turned-mud halting Russia's military, but apparently winter wasn't over. Russian troops lacking winter gear are being pulled out due to frostbite.
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Hey I'm all for leaving the rest of the world to its own devices. Zero skin off my back telling Europe and Asia to go pound sand. And also, don't come crying to us when you shit in your own dinner bowl.
i'm not, because it's no longer possible to isolate and not be impacted tremendously when shit hits the fan elsewhere. in theory i'm fine with it, but it's not practical in today's world.
having said that, we absolutely should be holding europe's feet to the fire for them to hold up their end to secure a safety, free world. either pony up the funds to support and stop bitching about how we police, or be a legitimate partner in doing so. i'm tired of incurring 80%+ of the financial, materiel, and personnel cost to keep world safe. and we're certainly not above reproach and corruption, so would also be nice to have a partner that can hold us accountable. same goes for asia, africa, mid east, and all our allies.
would be good for all for the us to reduce force projection and have others take it upon themselves to keep their region stable and safe.
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A tremendous amount of our military spending is to be able to project force anywhere around the world.
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Well we've all laughed at the melting snow-turned-mud halting Russia's military, but apparently winter wasn't over. Russian troops lacking winter gear are being pulled out due to frostbite.
It's possible they've made some logistical errors during this invasion.
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i'm not, because it's no longer possible to isolate and not be impacted tremendously when shit hits the fan elsewhere. in theory i'm fine with it, but it's not practical in today's world.
having said that, we absolutely should be holding europe's feet to the fire for them to hold up their end to secure a safety, free world. either pony up the funds to support and stop bitching about how we police, or be a legitimate partner in doing so. i'm tired of incurring 80%+ of the financial, materiel, and personnel cost to keep world safe. and we're certainly not above reproach and corruption, so would also be nice to have a partner that can hold us accountable. same goes for asia, africa, mid east, and all our allies.
would be good for all for the us to reduce force projection and have others take it upon themselves to keep their region stable and safe.
Newsflash: most regions are relatively stable. Save for Africa, maybe. All that US meddling in internal affairs of foreign nations and intervention (sanctions, war) typically ever does is just make f**king sh*t worse. People don't want us in their countries. They don't want us in their regions. They don't want us telling them what to do. They don't want us influencing their governments or overthrowing their governments and installing sock puppets. They tend to blame us and hate us when we starve their countries with sanctions. They definitely don't want us bombing them. They definitely don't want us invading them. It's a natural reaction. Americans never like to look through the other guys lens or try to envision putting the shoe on the other foot. We have to make up stories that we're the good guys because we say so- so it must be true! And hey because we're so good and awesome, what we say goes! Be like us! Take this "democracy" we're trying to give you at the point of a barrel!
US is PART of the world, it is NOT the world.
Europe should pay for it's own god damn defense and their feet should be held to the fire first and foremost for not allowing refugees that they took part in creating- into their countries. Most of Europe is part of NATO. US and a good chunk of it's NATO bitch-boys (UK first and foremost) literally just got done f**king destroying Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, and Iraq and turning them into ruins and rubble and parking lots that now amount to failed states. ALL of them FAR worse off than they would have been if US/Europe just STAYED OUT. And you have many NATO countries that are basically racist ethno-states- (looking at you Poland "Poland for Poles!" - literal campaign slogan of the party in power right now, Lithuania, Latvia) - who completely refuse to let any refugees from that part of the world in, despite that little military club they so desperately wanted to join f**king destroying the home countries of those refugees. And why won't they let them in? Because their skin is brown? Because they don't practice Christianity? They have no problem letting in white European refugees who are christian though. Kinda weird. Really disgusting and racist.
I think it's awesome that a lot of people here and the media and in Europe are rightfully condemning Russia and Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine and care a lot about the innocents that have been killed and the refugees trying to flee the horrors of war. Would be f**king GREAT and MORE USEFUL, MEANINGFUL, & IMPACTFUL if the people and media of these countries had that same energy when their own governments commit war crimes. We have no sway over what Russia does- condemning them and reporting on the horrors of this war everyday really doesn't actually do much to change things in Russia. As citizens of our own countries though- criticizing our own and covering our own and coming together to stop voting for criminal politicians that love war and don't give a shit about the US kids fighting said wars or the people in other countries dying from US acts of aggression and to push for sanctions and boycotts of US defense contractors- would be f***king nice if that happened. As American citizens we have zero responsibility for the actions of Russia and there's not any really meaningful way we can change it. We do however have responsibility for the actions of our own government and we can change said government with our dissent and with our vote. Unfortunately there's zero dissent in the media- it's pretty uniform when it comes to war- these psychos in the corporate/mainstream media actually cheerlead war and push for war- and unfortunately both parties are pretty much always in alignment on war as well and we don't have a viable 3rd party.
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It's possible they've made some logistical errors during this invasion.
Yes, it is possible.
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Mdot could we have just 1 day without you telling us how bad the US is
and could you please take the US bashing to another thread
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Mdot could we have just 1 day without you telling us how bad the US is
and could you please take the US bashing to another thread
I don't know whether I'd call it USA bashing but it's certainly off topic for this thread.
Please take it somewhere else.
The beatings will recommence until morale improves.
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There isn't much Ukraine "news" it seems. Stalemate? Stagnant situation? Negotiations?
Biden goes to NATO meeting where folks will say things.
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The garbage bins after dickface putin's super-nazi-esque pro-war rally:
https://twitter.com/mbk_center/status/1506369684945391624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1506369684945391624%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmbk_center%2Fstatus%2F1506369684945391624%3Fs%3D2026t%3DYw2ARYfFM0bUt4p9-MDSIg
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There isn't much Ukraine "news" it seems. Stalemate? Stagnant situation? Negotiations?
Biden goes to NATO meeting where folks will say things.
Oh there's plenty of news on individual skirmishes, small victories, painful defeats, and lots and lots of slaughtering of civilian women, children, and babies. I post maybe 1/20th of what I read and see, onto this thread.
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https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1506610195945897989?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1506610195945897989%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdavidfrum%2Fstatus%2F1506610195945897989%3Fs%3D2026t%3DAKcCBlSyqtSfWfbv3Xklmg
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This seems like a lot, for under 4 weeks of fighting...
https://twitter.com/business/status/1506673396465254415?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1506684826962833411%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es4_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FRALee85%2Fstatus%2F1506684826962833411
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Nearly one-third of the total forces engaged at Gettysburg (https://www.historynet.com/battle-of-gettysburg/) became casualties. George Gordon Meade’s Army of the Potomac lost 28 percent of the men involved; Robert E. Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia suffered over 37 percent.
Of these casualties, 7,058 were fatalities (3,155 Union, 3,903 Confederate). Another 33,264 had been wounded (14,529 Union, 18,735 Confederate) and 10,790 were missing (5,365 Union, 5,425 Confederate).
The number is equal to or double the number killed in three days at Gettysburg.
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Nearly one-third of the total forces engaged at Gettysburg (https://www.historynet.com/battle-of-gettysburg/) became casualties. George Gordon Meade’s Army of the Potomac lost 28 percent of the men involved; Robert E. Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia suffered over 37 percent.
Of these casualties, 7,058 were fatalities (3,155 Union, 3,903 Confederate). Another 33,264 had been wounded (14,529 Union, 18,735 Confederate) and 10,790 were missing (5,365 Union, 5,425 Confederate).
The number is equal to or double the number killed in three days at Gettysburg.
Sounds pretty bloody. But it's also counting the losses on both sides.
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Yes, and you had approximately equal numbers of troops engaged as in Ukraine, just over three days instead of nearly a month. But it goes to the pace of combat operations in Ukraine, it's not something low intensity if these figures are close. It's medium intensity, give or take. The Russians are losing as many as 500 men per day. That's major combat on a sustained level, it means a lot of Russian families are getting bad news unless they suppressed it. It's also ten percent of their force give or take, which is a point at which less experienced troops will lose morale and combat power.
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Yeah, speaking more about more modern warfare, and also more specifically about invasion forces...
The US lost around 2,400 total in Afghanistan over 20 years, and the combined coalition forces were around 3,400.
Russia lost around 15,000 in Afghanistan over 10 years.
The US lost about 4,400 in Iraq.
And the US lost about 58,000 in Vietnam.
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It's rare we've had conflicts involving two organized militaries going at it of late.
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From April 2021-- Uncanny Predictions of Ukraine war by Russian MP Alexander Nevzorov.
This really is worth 10 minutes of your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OutvYSl_TLc&t=569s
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That was amazing
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https://twitter.com/MaxAbrahms/status/1506353602138451968?s=20&t=LtOUnB2HtUFYkSMfVvOZZg
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From April 2021-- Uncanny Predictions of Ukraine war by Russian MP Alexander Nevzorov.
This really is worth 10 minutes of your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OutvYSl_TLc&t=569s
that was a terrific video.
My favorite line of his:
"All of the military analytics are made predominately by fools who have either long lost touch with reality or never even touched it in the first place."
Damn. That's spot on. Hits home hard after all the crap we've seen in the US.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/us/politics/biden-russia-nuclear-weapons.html?referringSource=articleShare
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that was a terrific video.
My favorite line of his:
"All of the military analytics are made predominately by fools who have either long lost touch with reality or never even touched it in the first place."
Damn. That's spot on. Hits home hard after all the crap we've seen in the US.
It hits a lot harder home for them, after they've engaged in a war they cannot win, that can only result in the destruction of their economy and the global excommunication or death of their dictator.
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former CIA director Leon Panetta: "We are engaged in a conflict here. It's a proxy war with Russia, whether we say so or not."
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couple of potentially bad signs....imo. Former US ambassador predicting US will soon double the size of it's troops in Europe (there are already around 100k there) and US has imposed a strict media blackout policy regarding the activities of the US military in Poland.
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1506529830514352129?s=20&t=CxwGPlJn7ne1319g42hoag
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1506302882701844487?s=20&t=CxwGPlJn7ne1319g42hoag
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Another day with basically no news about this. I see oil prices heading back up which I take as a sign it's going to last a while longer. This basic stalemate could last years?
Imagine waking up in 2024 and having the situation being basically as it is today. Is that possible?
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Another day with basically no news about this. I see oil prices heading back up which I take as a sign it's going to last a while longer. This basic stalemate could last years?
Imagine waking up in 2024 and having the situation being basically as it is today. Is that possible?
Anything is possible. I sure hope that isn't the case, but US was in Afghanistan for 20 years. Don't see why Russia couldn't be in Ukraine for 2.
But like Max Abrhams says, the regime charge part is the easy part. The insurgency is the hard part. Russia having trouble with the easy part. Which makes me think they won't be there that long.
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former CIA director Leon Panetta: "We are engaged in a conflict here. It's a proxy war with Russia, whether we say so or not."
Of course we are. The moment we starting supplying arms directly to Ukraine it became a proxy war.
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Putin has achieved his main objectives even if no further ground is taken, it seems to me. The Donbass region is politically split, with Russian troops there now any insurgency would be hard pressed. Crimea is fait accompli. He likely wants Mariupol to join the two on the ground. He could agree to some short and irrelevant withdrawals and simply take over the land they occupied and have minimal insurgent forces present, a la Crimea. Maybe they negotiate and "end" to active combat at some point, but to a degree Russia has "won", though at considerable cost.
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Another day with basically no news about this. I see oil prices heading back up which I take as a sign it's going to last a while longer. This basic stalemate could last years?
Imagine waking up in 2024 and having the situation being basically as it is today. Is that possible?
I don't think Russia can withstand two years of these sanctions. Something like 100,000 employees in Russia already furloughed, and it's only been a few weeks of the sanctions actually being in place.
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Of course we are. The moment we starting supplying arms directly to Ukraine it became a proxy war.
This was routine in the Cold War. Israel pre1967 had mostly French and British armaments. They became a proxy in 1967 and shifted mostly to US armaments. The IAF is not Mirage jets, it's F-15Is and F-16Is and some internally grown aircraft.
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what really scares me is that US Presidents continually wage war unconstitutionally without the approval of Congress. It's not just Biden- any President in office during this crisis could potentially start World War III if they ordered strikes on Russia in Ukraine or ordered a No Fly Zone.
Constitution is pretty f**king clear in that it grants Congress the sole power to declare war. Yet US Presidents freely wage war without congressional approval and have done so for decades.
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I don't think Russia can withstand two years of these sanctions. Something like 100,000 employees in Russia already furloughed, and it's only been a few weeks of the sanctions actually being in place.
Good point, but I see nothing Russia could do at this point to gain sanctions relief short of replacing Putin, total withdrawal, and reparations. At some point, sanctions will leak, and China and India will help them out with oil. I'm not sure Russia exports much beyond hydrocarbons of any use to anyone, some military stuff.
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what really scares me is that US Presidents continually wage war unconstitutionally without the approval of Congress. It's not just Biden- any President in office during this crisis could potentially start World War III if they ordered strikes on Russia in Ukraine or ordered a No Fly Zone.
Constitution is pretty f**king clear in that it grants Congress the sole power to declare war. Yet US Presidents freely wage war without congressional approval and have done so for decades.
You should read up on the War Powers Act and the authority Congress has granted to the Executive. (And yes, even that isn't enforced.)
The US has declared war only five times and yet we have conflicts galore.
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Good point, but I see nothing Russia could do at this point to gain sanctions relief short of replacing Putin, total withdrawal, and reparations. At some point, sanctions will leak, and China and India will help them out with oil. I'm not sure Russia exports much beyond hydrocarbons of any use to anyone, some military stuff.
Right, and that's the problem. Outside of oil and gas, the world economy doesn't need Russia. There's no reason to lift the sanctions. China could provide a relief valve for Russian oil, but at prices so deeply discounted that Russia will effectively become a subjugated vassal state to the Chinese. Which still doesn't help the Russian people, not even a little bit.
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Good point, but I see nothing Russia could do at this point to gain sanctions relief short of replacing Putin, total withdrawal, and reparations. At some point, sanctions will leak, and China and India will help them out with oil. I'm not sure Russia exports much beyond hydrocarbons of any use to anyone, some military stuff.
they are the 2nd largest exporter of arms behind the US. They also export a ton of grain. But that's pretty much it.
I don't believe the sanction relief will be tied to replacing Putin. Those sort of demands would give Putin less incentive to end this war, not more. He'll just raise the stakes and dig in deeper. Would love to believe he could be overthrown from within- but how many times are strongman dictators? Almost never.
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they are the 2nd largest exporter of arms behind the US. They also export a ton of grain. But that's pretty much it.
I don't believe the sanction relief will be tied to replacing Putin. Those sort of demands would give Putin less incentive to end this war, not more. He'll just raise the stakes and dig in deeper. Would love to believe he could be overthrown from within- but how many times are strongman dictators? Almost never.
"Dig in" on what? His massive losses in Ukraine? The absolute destruction of his country's economy? The rest of the developed world doesn't care about these things, but they do care about the slaughter of babies.
Europe sees him as the new Hitler, and they're not going to let Russia off the hook with Putin in power. The fact that they are escalating is enough proof, they're done with him. And the US will follow Europe on the sanctions, because quite frankly it's no skin off our backs, we don't even trade with Russia in any meaningful way.
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I have a tough time seeing any end to this, other than a stagnant status quo. And yes, some negotiations could result in small Russian pullbacks in return for, well, I don't know, but that won't relieve sanctions. A cease fire would be welcome of course, but that leaves Russia with significant gains.
So what then are the possible futures here?
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You should read up on the War Powers Act and the authority Congress has granted to the Executive. (And yes, even that isn't enforced.)
The US has declared war only five times and yet we have conflicts galore.
War Powers Act does not work and it was intended to limit the Presidents ability to wage war. However, it's been violated time and time again by every President and it is not worth the paper it's written on. Constitution supersedes any bullshit law made by modern law makers anyway. And the constitution is clear only Congress can wage war.
US has officially declared war 11 times, by the way.
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"Dig in" on what? His massive losses in Ukraine? The absolute destruction of his country's economy? The rest of the developed world doesn't care about these things, but they do care about the slaughter of babies.
Europe sees him as the new Hitler, and they're not going to let Russia off the hook with Putin in power. The fact that they are escalating is enough proof, they're done with him. And the US will follow Europe on the sanctions, because quite frankly it's no skin off our backs, we don't even trade with Russia in any meaningful way.
when do strongman dictators ever willingly give up their throne? trying to push him around and tell him he's got to vacate- well I don't see that going over to well imo.
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1812
Mexican War
Spanish American War
WW One
WW Two.
Official declarations of war by Congress.
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IMHO lifting of the sanctions should be tied to a complete withdrawal of all forces from Ukraine by Russia, not tied to the Russians replacing Putin.
You want an incentive to end this thing, and you don't want to drag on policies which will only inflame the Russian people (as happened to the Germans post-Treaty of Versailles), and which we know are hurting the Russian people more than Putin.
What's the point of keeping the sanctions on, if Russia fully withdraws?
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IMHO lifting of the sanctions should be tied to a complete withdrawal of all forces from Ukraine by Russia, not tied to the Russians replacing Putin.
You want an incentive to end this thing, and you don't want to drag on policies which will only inflame the Russian people (as happened to the Germans post-Treaty of Versailles), and which we know are hurting the Russian people more than Putin.
What's the point of keeping the sanctions on, if Russia fully withdraws?
exactly my thoughts. the only goal should be making peace and ending the war as soon as possible and saving lives and further bloodshed. not regime change. btw, regime change pretty much never works out for us.
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The odds Russia ever pulls out of Crimea are nonexistent I think. Ever. Sanctions over time start to ebb, other countries step in, their full force diminishes.
I'm not sure of this, but we may be in a status quo situation where the "news" barely changes and people forget about it.
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IMHO lifting of the sanctions should be tied to a complete withdrawal of all forces from Ukraine by Russia, not tied to the Russians replacing Putin.
You want an incentive to end this thing, and you don't want to drag on policies which will only inflame the Russian people (as happened to the Germans post-Treaty of Versailles), and which we know are hurting the Russian people more than Putin.
What's the point of keeping the sanctions on, if Russia fully withdraws?
Forcing Russia to take care of the putin problem on their own.
Ultimately, Russia is responsible for his actions. Russia has allowed him to coopt their "democracy" and pervert it into an autocracy. Russia has allowed dickface putin to become the global problem that he is. And Russia is the only country that can remove him.
I don't have any illusion that it won't be difficult or bloody for them. But at some point, every true democracy in the world has had to fight, to spill its own blood, to become so, and to remain so.
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exactly my thoughts. the only goal should be making peace and ending the war as soon as possible and saving lives and further bloodshed. not regime change. btw, regime change pretty much never works out for us.
It's not really up to us. It's up to Ukraine. And it's up to Europe.
I'm not taking a hard line on removing dickface putin from office (and, preferably, from the face of the earth).
But I do believe that Europe will. Like I said, he's widely viewed as Hitler 2.0-- and Ukraine is Poland.
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Forcing Russia to take care of the putin problem on their own.
Ultimately, Russia is responsible for his actions. Russia has allowed him to coopt their "democracy" and pervert it into an autocracy. Russia has allowed dickface putin to become the global problem that he is. And Russia is the only country that can remove him.
I don't have any illusion that it won't be difficult or bloody for them. But at some point, every true democracy in the world has had to fight, to spill its own blood, to become so, and to remain so.
As Mdot has said, sanctions don't often do a very good job of "forcing" regime change.
And it has the chance to cause the Russians to blame US for their problems rather than Putin. Which I'm sure their state media will continually highlight and propagandize.
I realize everyone wants to punish Russia for invading Ukraine... I certainly do. And we want that punishment to continue to hurt, probably beyond the withdrawal, to deter them from thinking they can do it again there or elsewhere.
But a policy of vengeance is subject to the sunk costs fallacy... It doesn't necessarily help the situation going forward to focus on the hurts of the past.
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Congress did pass resolutions approving the first and second Iraq wars
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Congress did pass resolutions approving the first and second Iraq wars
There was the AUMF, but it was not technically a DoW. There was the Tonkin Resolution as well in 1965ish.
The DoW is a pretty specific thing.
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As Mdot has said, sanctions don't often do a very good job of "forcing" regime change.
And it has the chance to cause the Russians to blame US for their problems rather than Putin. Which I'm sure their state media will continually highlight and propagandize.
I realize everyone wants to punish Russia for invading Ukraine... I certainly do. And we want that punishment to continue to hurt, probably beyond the withdrawal, to deter them from thinking they can do it again there or elsewhere.
But a policy of vengeance is subject to the sunk costs fallacy... It doesn't necessarily help the situation going forward to focus on the hurts of the past.
Read my next response.
It's not up to us.
Europe views this as a Europe problem. Which is what some of us have been begging for all along.
Nobody over there is going to allow another Hitler to stick around. Pressuring the Russian people via sanctions is the only way to try to enact change, without open war. And I expect it to continue.
Americans don't understand-- can't possibly understand-- the deep wounds within the European psyche, associated with World Wars on their own soil.
This is precisely why the word "nazi" is still so heavily loaded over there. And now Russia is viewed across the entire continent as the new nazis, and dickface putin is the new Hitler. They're not about to let Poland happen again.
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I don't trust Europe to stick to their guns, as it were, when it hurts economically.
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As Mdot has said, sanctions don't often do a very good job of "forcing" regime change.
And it has the chance to cause the Russians to blame US for their problems rather than Putin. Which I'm sure their state media will continually highlight and propagandize.
I realize everyone wants to punish Russia for invading Ukraine... I certainly do. And we want that punishment to continue to hurt, probably beyond the withdrawal, to deter them from thinking they can do it again there or elsewhere.
But a policy of vengeance is subject to the sunk costs fallacy... It doesn't necessarily help the situation going forward to focus on the hurts of the past.
The goal of sanctions is to signal the worlds disapproval of Russia's actions and to give incentive to end the war
It really doesnt matter whether the Russian people blame Putin or anyone else as long as they realize that stopping the war will make the sanctions go away
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Read my next response.
It's not up to us.
Europe views this as a Europe problem. Which is what some of us have been begging for all along.
Nobody over there is going to allow another Hitler to stick around. Pressuring the Russian people via sanctions is the only way to try to enact change, without open war. And I expect it to continue.
Americans don't understand-- can't possibly understand-- the deep wounds within the European psyche, associated with World Wars on their own soil.
This is precisely why the word "nazi" is still so heavily loaded over there. And now Russia is viewed across the entire continent as the new nazis, and dickface putin is the new Hitler. They're not about to let Poland happen again.
Fair enough--let Europe handle it.
Of course, they've made themselves dependent on Russian oil/gas, so good luck with that.
All I'm saying is that the United States shouldn't be pushing for sanctions to continue punishing Russia beyond withdrawal, because our goal is for Russia not to invade sovereign nations.
I absolutely would engage in a massive propaganda campaign in favor of the Russians getting rid of Putin, but I just wouldn't push sanctions because I think it'll backfire on us.
The goal of sanctions is to signal the worlds disapproval of Russia's actions and to give incentive to end the war
It really doesnt matter whether the Russian people blame Putin or anyone else as long as they realize that stopping the war will make the sanctions go away
Exactly my point. Right now we're signaling disapproval of Russia and crippling their economy with sanctions, because they invaded Ukraine. If they withdraw, the signal should end.
Being an asshole has consequences. Stopping the asshole behavior that led to the consequences should trigger an end to those consequences.
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Fair enough--let Europe handle it.
Of course, they've made themselves dependent on Russian oil/gas, so good luck with that.
All I'm saying is that the United States shouldn't be pushing for sanctions to continue punishing Russia beyond withdrawal, because our goal is for Russia not to invade sovereign nations.
I absolutely would engage in a massive propaganda campaign in favor of the Russians getting rid of Putin, but I just wouldn't push sanctions because I think it'll backfire on us.
Exactly my point. Right now we're signaling disapproval of Russia and crippling their economy with sanctions, because they invaded Ukraine. If they withdraw, the signal should end.
Being an asshole has consequences. Stopping the asshole behavior that led to the consequences should trigger an end to those consequences.
and when the war ends with Russia coming out on the bad side a smart President would offer both an olive branch and aid to Russia
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Does anyone foresee a likely future where Russia pulls out of Crimea?
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Does anyone foresee a likely future where Russia pulls out of Crimea?
not while Putin is around
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It's not really up to us. It's up to Ukraine. And it's up to Europe.
I'm not taking a hard line on removing dickface putin from office (and, preferably, from the face of the earth).
But I do believe that Europe will. Like I said, he's widely viewed as Hitler 2.0-- and Ukraine is Poland.
I think the Hitler stuff is overblown. They really are not that comparable in my mind.
And Europe is so upset, that they continue to this day to buy his oil and gas. I think really only the little tiny insignificant border nations who should've never been allowed to join NATO in the first place are the ones most upset and popping their mouths off.
Germany, Denmark, Italy - they still buying loads of Russian oil and gas.
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As Mdot has said, sanctions don't often do a very good job of "forcing" regime change.
And it has the chance to cause the Russians to blame US for their problems rather than Putin. Which I'm sure their state media will continually highlight and propagandize.
I realize everyone wants to punish Russia for invading Ukraine... I certainly do. And we want that punishment to continue to hurt, probably beyond the withdrawal, to deter them from thinking they can do it again there or elsewhere.
But a policy of vengeance is subject to the sunk costs fallacy... It doesn't necessarily help the situation going forward to focus on the hurts of the past.
this is exactly what sanctions do. look no further than Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, North Korea - the public in those countries don't wind up blaming the strongman leader - they wind up blaming the country imposing those sanctions which are crushing them- and all it does is draw them closer into the arms of the dictator for survival. this has been proven time and time again.
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I don't trust Europe to stick to their guns, as it were, when it hurts economically.
this. they are still lining the coffers of Russia by buying their oil and natural gas, today, a month into Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine.
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The goal of sanctions is to signal the worlds disapproval of Russia's actions and to give incentive to end the war
It really doesnt matter whether the Russian people blame Putin or anyone else as long as they realize that stopping the war will make the sanctions go away
this is my view as well.
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Does anyone foresee a likely future where Russia pulls out of Crimea?
not really. That port/naval base is way too important to them.
And Crimea, if we're being honest- is kind of a weird outlier. It was part of Ukraine, but it wasn't really Ukrainian. For about 300 years it was part of the Ottoman Empire, then about another 300 years it was the Russian Empire/Soviet Union (RSFSR). And it wasn't part of Ukraine until a Soviet dictator Nikita Khrushchev - for no obvious or apparent reason- gifted Crimea from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic- about 60 years ago when the population of Crimea at the time then was about 80% Russian. It wasn't that big a deal at the time- as technically Russia and Ukraine were one country- the USSR- and they probably never thought USSR would collapse and world would be what it is today. And Crimea to this day was still around 65-70% ethnic Russian and it's spoken as a first language by almost 90% of the population of Crimea when Russia took it in 2014.
IMO, I say don't continue wars over it- let the people of Crimea vote and decide the destiny of Crimea. Bring in the UN, bring in as many outside independent election advisors and supervisors to make sure elections are free and fair- and let the people of Crimea decide what country they wish to be a part of. And if the people decide to go with Russia- recognize it internationally and have Russia pay Ukraine reparations for this war and have Russia pay Ukraine reparations for Crimea as well.
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The British embargo on Germany in WW One was effective, pivotal really, one obvious difference.
The US did the same to Japan. But it required force of course.
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this. they are still lining the coffers of Russia by buying their oil and natural gas, today, a month into Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine.
We all know they're buying Russian oil and gas and that they can't stop. That's not some signal that they approve of Russia. It's a consequence of decades of poor energy policy, coming home to roost, and it's impossible to reverse quickly. If anything I'd expect it to make them even more ready to reject Russia as swiftly as possible.
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I think the Hitler stuff is overblown. They really are not that comparable in my mind.
What's in your mind is completely irrelevant.
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I'm going to lay out the most likely "ending", I think, which isn't an end at all.
At some point, both sides agree to a cease fire (which mostly holds).
Then the talk talk talk about withdrawals.
After much talk, Russia agrees to some modest withdrawals, but stays in Donbass, Crimea of course, and around Mariupol.
Then there is more talk, and some minor eruptions of fighting here and there by separatists.
Then they agree to talk some more, with some third party, maybe the Young Turks.
Then Russia threatens to abandon talks, but they talk some more.
Europe decides all this talking is leading nowhere fast, which is true, and decides they need hydrocarbons from Russia.
Five years from now, nothing is really resolved, sanctions have weakened considerably, and life goes on.
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I'm going to lay out the most likely "ending", I think, which isn't an end at all.
At some point, both sides agree to a cease fire (which mostly holds).
Then the talk talk talk about withdrawals.
After much talk, Russia agrees to some modest withdrawals, but stays in Donbass, Crimea of course, and around Mariupol.
Then there is more talk, and some minor eruptions of fighting here and there by separatists.
Then they agree to talk some more, with some third party, maybe the Young Turks.
Then Russia threatens to abandon talks, but they talk some more.
Europe decides all this talking is leading nowhere fast, which is true, and decides they need hydrocarbons from Russia.
Five years from now, nothing is really resolved, sanctions have weakened considerably, and life goes on.
Bleak. In your scenario, the only people who benefit, are the arms manufacturers. I hope you're wrong and a better peace is found. Only time will tell, of course.
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https://twitter.com/idreesali114/status/1507026944147304456?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507026944147304456%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fidreesali114%2Fstatus%2F1507026944147304456%3Fs%3D2026t%3Dd53PgZAaxO3Q8bgrMFXlyA
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https://twitter.com/jonnytickle/status/1507080417366654983?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507080417366654983%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fjonnytickle%2Fstatus%2F1507080417366654983%3Fs%3D2026t%3D4ndAAZ9qq7uyLtX1hc_GPQ
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https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1507042142648258565?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507079804549488644%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAFP%2Fstatus%2F1507079804549488644%3Fs%3D2026t%3D4ndAAZ9qq7uyLtX1hc_GPQ
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https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1507095038609829897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507095038609829897%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmaxseddon%2Fstatus%2F1507095038609829897%3Fs%3D2026t%3D-y9j0VgEwJ2UYcazpz8K0Q
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https://twitter.com/idreesali114/status/1507026944147304456?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507026944147304456%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fidreesali114%2Fstatus%2F1507026944147304456%3Fs%3D2026t%3Dd53PgZAaxO3Q8bgrMFXlyA
that’s hilarious that they are even trying to get anyone to buy their oil in roubles.
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https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1507042142648258565?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507079804549488644%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAFP%2Fstatus%2F1507079804549488644%3Fs%3D2026t%3D4ndAAZ9qq7uyLtX1hc_GPQ
96% of Canada’s oil exports already go to the US. Their increase in production probably just going to make up the difference of Russian oil not being imported to US anymore.
I’m all for more production, pump baby pump- should help cool world oil market and gas prices.
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Canada to up energy exports in 2022 to boost global supply (yahoo.com) (https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/canada-can-boost-oil-gas-exports-by-up-to-300-k-barrels-per-day-in-2022-wilkinson-181557311.html)
"We have determined the Canadian industry has the pipeline and production capacity to incrementally increase oil and gas exports in 2022 by up to 300,000 barrels per day," Wilkinson said at a press conference at the International Energy Agency's (IEA) meeting of energy ministers in Paris on Thursday. "We will be working with partners to bring fresh supply to the market to help address supply shortages."
Canada is the world's fourth-largest oil producer, and holds the third-largest oil reserves. Wilkinson says a number of Canadian oil and gas producers had planned to increase production later this year, and are now looking to accelerate those efforts.
Canada currently exports around four million bbl/d of oil to the United States, a small portion of which is sent overseas. Wilkinson says the 300,000 barrels per day increase, comprising 200,000 bbl/d of oil and up to 100,000 BOE/d of natural gas, is expected to be achieved by the end of 2022.
So, if it all goes to the US, they go from 4 million BPD to 4.2 million BPD of "oil" (bitumen probably). US production likely will go up more than that on its own. The US is expected to produce at record levels in 2023, more than in 2019. We use an astonishing amount of oil each day. Every little bit helps, a little bit. If the below comes to pass, I expect the Administration to point to it as an indication of their success and greatness (as usual).
I filled up yesterday at Costco with premium for $4.06, regular was $3.73.
U.S. crude oil production forecast to rise in 2022 and 2023 to record-high levels - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) (https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=51318#:~:text=In the February STEO%2C we,average 12.6 million b%2Fd.)
(https://i.imgur.com/ME95Nqk.png)
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Do you think it true that Ukrainian forces are retaking ground from the Russians? Sure, it's possible to some small extent, I wonder if this is significant, or a coming trend. The Russians must be "digging in" to some extent, going on the defensive in situ, making it tough to regain ground. But they could be so demoralized they fade away if attacked.
Mariupol may end up being the key to all this. I'm speculating (again) that the Russians want it badly, and once they take that area will agree to a cease fire and let Kyiv be.
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- Moldova has taken in about one refugee for every 25 of its citizens. This Times video (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/a/SlZHa3cc0f5I56fp-7B2GA~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRkIB2sP0TnaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vdmlkZW8vd29ybGQvMTAwMDAwMDA4MjUzODc3L3VrcmFuaWFuLXJlZnVnZWVzLW1vbGRvdmEuaHRtbD9jYW1wYWlnbl9pZD05JmVtYz1lZGl0X25uXzIwMjIwMzI1Jmluc3RhbmNlX2lkPTU2Njc0Jm5sPXRoZS1tb3JuaW5nJnJlZ2lfaWQ9MTUzMzY4OTEwJnNlZ21lbnRfaWQ9ODY1MTImdGU9MSZ1c2VyX2lkPThlNWQyYTJiNWU0OGE2OTY1NjE5MmNjM2FmMGE5MDBjVwNueXRCCmIqrJg9YkgmJ-dSEWpjZG9vbTlAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAA) looks at the situation there — and allows you to hear Anna Sevidova tell her own story.
- “The best that humanity has to offer”: A Kyiv Independent journalist spent a day with volunteers who deliver food, rescue pets and evacuate people (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/a/RbMDLYCqbvcNdx79lu7d5A~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRkIB2sP4QDAWh0dHBzOi8va3lpdmluZGVwZW5kZW50LmNvbS9uYXRpb25hbC93YXItZGlhcmllcy1teS1kYXktd2l0aC12b2x1bnRlZXJzLXNhdmluZy1saXZlcy1pbi13YXJ6b25lcy1vdXRzaWRlLWt5aXYvP2NhbXBhaWduX2lkPTkmZW1jPWVkaXRfbm5fMjAyMjAzMjUmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9NTY2NzQmbmw9dGhlLW1vcm5pbmcmcmVnaV9pZD0xNTMzNjg5MTAmc2VnbWVudF9pZD04NjUxMiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9OGU1ZDJhMmI1ZTQ4YTY5NjU2MTkyY2MzYWYwYTkwMGNXA255dEIKYiqsmD1iSCYn51IRamNkb29tOUBnbWFpbC5jb21YBAAAAAA~) from nearby war zones.
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| (https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/NRZca9AplgpKHAfW2A-Vn-TBanr8IYJbgHfcpVXeJD3O1a8MCsjPAWiOnSGk63RoIrRSK8NDrdcux5JPwPT4McwCsYvZ4EaYZTgaNrLbQD4H2Qqid0ld79cxWBcYVrHX7HGBR52Rh8JgWwpKNvMtjhJIUwH49W36l7tXsb6niauAPNPdAMQmzetciK12mF82gjSFOxgF52kXcQKZEZ2u=s0-d-e1-ft#https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/03/24/briefing/25-the-morning-ukraine-slide-5UWI/25-the-morning-ukraine-slide-5UWI-articleLarge-v2.jpg) | | A gymnasium in Novoyavorivsk, Ukraine, was converted into a shelter for displaced people.Brendan Hoffman for The New York Times |
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- For anybody who wants to make a donation to help Ukrainian refugees, there are many worthy options (but watch out for scams). One option recommended by this Times Opinion guide (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/a/x3dSXyCzQHFmmqXfWnpMDA~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRkIB2sP0TvaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vaW50ZXJhY3RpdmUvMjAyMi8wMy8wMi9vcGluaW9uL3VrcmFpbmUtY2hhcml0eS1kb25hdGlvbi1ndWlkZS5odG1sP2NhbXBhaWduX2lkPTkmZW1jPWVkaXRfbm5fMjAyMjAzMjUmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9NTY2NzQmbmw9dGhlLW1vcm5pbmcmcmVnaV9pZD0xNTMzNjg5MTAmc2VnbWVudF9pZD04NjUxMiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9OGU1ZDJhMmI1ZTQ4YTY5NjU2MTkyY2MzYWYwYTkwMGNXA255dEIKYiqsmD1iSCYn51IRamNkb29tOUBnbWFpbC5jb21YBAAAAAA~) is Mercy Corps, which is supporting local organizations in Poland, Romania and Ukraine. Another option is World Central Kitchen (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/a/CPxr87RYVJSqa6-zdqUFzQ~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRkIB2sP0TaaHR0cHM6Ly93Y2sub3JnL25ld3MvbmV3cy0xLW1pbGxpb24tbWVhbHMtc2VydmVkLXdpdGgtY2hlZnNmb3J1a3JhaW5lP2NhbXBhaWduX2lkPTkmZW1jPWVkaXRfbm5fMjAyMjAzMjUmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9NTY2NzQmbmw9dGhlLW1vcm5pbmcmcmVnaV9pZD0xNTMzNjg5MTAmc2VnbWVudF9pZD04NjUxMiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9OGU1ZDJhMmI1ZTQ4YTY5NjU2MTkyY2MzYWYwYTkwMGNXA255dEIKYiqsmD1iSCYn51IRamNkb29tOUBnbWFpbC5jb21YBAAAAAA~), founded by the chef José Andrés.
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I watched Biden's presser after the emergency NATO meeting. He was doing fine until the last impromptu question. Saying he never thought sanctions would deter Russia was a bit mystifying since that's all his administration said for weeks on end. Also, his comment that they would respond in kind to a chemical attack by Russia was interesting since the US or NATO have no chemical weapons.
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This is precisely why the word "nazi" is still so heavily loaded over there. And now Russia is viewed across the entire continent as the new nazis, and dickface putin is the new Hitler. They're not about to let Poland happen again.
Hope you are right 94 but when Hitler then Stalin took their turns none of the belligerents had A-Bombs. If things go south for Vlad moving forward does he have enough of a conscience to abdicate or commit hari-kari? If not he may just think screw it and attempt taking everyone with him. He has that look - Then we must hope/pray even his allies say enough
PS - just put Joey in a high chair and a bib on him already enough of this charade
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Poland was the wrong country to guarantee.
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I watched Biden's presser after the emergency NATO meeting. He was doing fine until the last impromptu question. Saying he never thought sanctions would deter Russia was a bit mystifying since that's all his administration said for weeks on end. Also, his comment that they would respond in kind to a chemical attack by Russia was interesting since the US or NATO have no chemical weapons.
not as far as you know
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not as far as you know
US reportedly has destroyed around 96% of it's chemical weapons cache. the rest is scheduled to be destroyed by end of 2023.
chemical weapons shouldn't really concern anyone here. what we all should be sh**ting our pants over is the prospect of nuclear war.
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Biden has promised a strong reaction of some sort if Russia employs chemical weapons. That worries me.
Of course such "red lines" in the past have been ignored.
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this should scare everyone. Kremlin spokesperson refuses to rule out possibility of nuclear strikes when pressed in an interview. Russian military doctrine is the same as Soviet doctrine- which states that threats to the government falling (regime change) is justified cause to use nuclear weapons. And top ranking Russian military officers have been refusing to talk to their US counterparts in the Pentagon. After the Cuban missile crisis when JFK and Khrushchev established the "red phone" hotline from DC to Moscow so there could be direct communication which would reduce the risk of nuclear war occurring by accident or miscalculation - that was obviously a great thing. Those lines of communication are closed right now.
People do not realize that we are literally closer to nuclear war than we have been maybe ever. I don't see people shouting from the mountain tops about this in the media. All the media seems to be doing is pressing for US to "do more" - ie - start WWIII and nuclear holocaust.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2GC9ybN7UU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjBVfdFQ6AU
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Who in the media is calling for us to "do more"? Is it "all the media", or perhaps just a few voices here and there?
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Hello? Moscow? US says Russian defence officials picked up test call of ‘hotline’ | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/us-russia-hotline-moscow-ukraine-b2029027.html)
This is from 3 March and may have changed.
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Biden has promised a strong reaction of some sort if Russia employs chemical weapons. That worries me.
Of course such "red lines" in the past have been ignored.
it's unclear why Russia would even employ chemical weapons. Seems very strange to me US keeps bringing it up.
And yes, all we have to do is recall Syria. Obama made a "red line" about chemical weapons that were not followed through on.
And by the way, several whistleblowers from the OPCW and leaked emails from WikiLeaks and a bunch of great reporting by independent investigative journalists on the ground in Syria- seriously call into question the official narrative of Assad using chemical weapons. There is no conclusive evidence that Assad in fact did use chemical weapons, and there was even evidence suggesting that "rebels" (in reality, f**king terrorists) in Syria are the ones who may have staged a chemical attack to blame it on Assad to get US to invade and overthrow him. Which logically, just makes a ton of sense. If you're Assad and you're already winning- but then the US issues a "red line" and says the only way they're going to invade and overthrow you is if you use chemical weapons - well then you have zero incentive to actually use chemical weapons. If you're a Syrian "rebel" (TERRORIST) then well, staging a chemical attack to drag the Americans in to overthrow Assad is something you'd absolutely want to do.
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Who in the media is calling for us to "do more"? Is it "all the media", or perhaps just a few voices here and there?
uh yeah I guess you haven't been paying much attention....
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Hello? Moscow? US says Russian defence officials picked up test call of ‘hotline’ | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/us-russia-hotline-moscow-ukraine-b2029027.html)
This is from 3 March and may have changed.
the videos I just posted you are from yesterday, and while I try to give news outlets the benefit of the doubt and not bash them- The Independent is flat out garbage. Wouldn't expect anything less from basically a tabloid rag that's owned and funded by the Saudis though.
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So, you're saying "all the media" are calling for the US to "do more" and start a nuclear war? I had not seen that, aside from perhaps a few fringe actors.
If anything, most of what I read is asking for a cautious balancing act with an understanding of the risks. Maybe I should read OAN or something obscure.
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So, you're saying "all the media" are calling for the US to "do more" and start a nuclear war? I had not seen that, aside from perhaps a few fringe actors.
If anything, most of what I read is asking for a cautious balancing act with an understanding of the risks. Maybe I should read OAN or something obscure.
yeah. no. have you not watched any White House press conference with Jen Psaki? CNN, MSNBC, NY Times, Fox News, and every other damn member of the media in those press conferences pressing Psaki on why aren't you doing more and imposing a no fly zone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjnzKrvPkiw
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So, you're saying "all the media" are calling for the US to "do more" and start a nuclear war? I had not seen that, aside from perhaps a few fringe actors.
If anything, most of what I read is asking for a cautious balancing act with an understanding of the risks. Maybe I should read OAN or something obscure.
Well then, you're not paying attention at all.
WTF is OAN?
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yeah. no. have you not watched any White House press conference with Jen Psaki? CNN, MSNBC, NY Times, Fox News, and every other damn member of the media in those press conferences pressing Psaki on why aren't you doing more and imposing a no fly zone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjnzKrvPkiw
This is just the usual political bantering meaning nothing at all. Nobody in the actual media is calling for nuclear war, or anything making that more likely, unless you watch OAN perhaps (One America News, a kind of MSNBC on the right, sort of).
These are legit questions to be asked, and answered, they aren't someone pushing for nuclear war.
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Reporters SHOULD ask "tough" (gotcha) questions, it's their role, it doesn't mean they want nuclear war, or escalation, or anything but a slip up they can write about. It's the usual give and take game played in DC. Reporters are always looking for a "gotcha". Asking why we're not getting more military aid to Ukraine is a legitimate question in my mind. I don't view this as wanting massive escalation, it's their job to ask such things.
I suppose with a good bit of hyperbole we can conflate that with "everyone the media" asking for nuclear war.
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Incidentally, Russia has only one Typhoon class ballistic missile submarine left, and its status is uncertain, it may not be operational. I'd guess most of the land based arsenal is in OK shape, but do you think the odds are high they would engage in a nuclear first strike against the US?
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Potentially indicating a change in Russian strategy and possibly an "off-ramp" for Russia to deescalate and "declare victory?"
https://twitter.com/AlexKokcharov/status/1507373076207570964?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507373076207570964%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAlexKokcharov%2Fstatus%2F1507373076207570964%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1507373076207570964257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es1_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16%2Ftopics%2F3274372%2F385
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Reporters SHOULD ask "tough" (gotcha) questions, it's their role, it doesn't mean they want nuclear war, or escalation, or anything but a slip up they can write about. It's the usual give and take game played in DC. Reporters are always looking for a "gotcha". Asking why we're not getting more military aid to Ukraine is a legitimate question in my mind. I don't view this as wanting massive escalation, it's their job to ask such things.
I suppose with a good bit of hyperbole we can conflate that with "everyone the media" asking for nuclear war.
those are not tough gotcha questions. those are stupid ass questions that anybody with a brain knows would LEAD TO NUCLEAR WAR. You can't impose a no fly zone without striking Russian military radar and surface to air missile defense systems and then shooting down Russian aircraft. That LITERALLY means WWIII.
What are you talking about? Asking why we aren't getting more military aid to Ukraine is not a legitimate question. It's a stupid and asinine one. The US has been training and funding Ukraine for about 8 years and they've been arming them to the teeth for about 5 years (since Trump) to the tune of billions and billions of dollars, and the US literally just approved a military aid package of another $14 billion.
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Potentially indicating a change in Russian strategy and possibly an "off-ramp" for Russia to deescalate and "declare victory?"
https://twitter.com/AlexKokcharov/status/1507373076207570964?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507373076207570964%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAlexKokcharov%2Fstatus%2F1507373076207570964%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1507373076207570964257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es1_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16%2Ftopics%2F3274372%2F385
whatever makes the war end and dying end, I'm all for.
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Not everything that happens need be so dramatic, a lot of it is just "stuff".
I suppose we could insist the press only ask softball questions of the President's media spox of course.
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(https://i.imgur.com/JmY03Lx.png)
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https://twitter.com/idreesali114/status/1507339108775088150?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507339108775088150%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fidreesali114%2Fstatus%2F1507339108775088150
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Uhhh.... I hope this is just one of those classic Biden blunders and not for realz yo:
https://twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1507379407605977092?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507379407605977092%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAndrewFeinberg%2Fstatus%2F1507379407605977092%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1507398345190481975257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es2_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16%2Ftopics%2F3280131
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Uhhh.... I hope this is just one of those classic Biden blunders and not for realz yo:
https://twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1507379407605977092?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507379407605977092%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAndrewFeinberg%2Fstatus%2F1507379407605977092%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1507398345190481975257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es2_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16%2Ftopics%2F3280131
what an idiot
heaven help us
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I'm assuming he misspoke, but this is a really bad time to misspeak on this particular subject.
There is zero doubt the Russian propagandists will latch onto it and say, "See, we TOLD you the USA was going to send in troops!"
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Russian troops attack own commanding officer after suffering heavy losses | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/599792-russian-troops-attack-own-commanding-officer-after-suffering-heavy)
Russian troops reportedly attacked their own commanding officer by running him over with a tank after many in their brigade were killed amid the ongoing invasion of Ukraine.
Ukrainian journalist Roman Tsymbaliuk said in a post on Facebook that Russian Col. Yuri Medvedev (https://thehill.com/person/yuri-medvedev) was attacked after fighting in Ukraine left nearly half of the men in the 37th Motor Rifle Brigade dead, The Washington Post reported (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/25/russia-ukraine-war-news-biden-live-updates/#link-5KM2VKL3OVFOJDFCIDT4HOD6HQ).
Tsymbaliuk said the brigade injured both of Medvedev's legs by hitting him with a tank, causing him to be hospitalized, according to the newspaper.
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The Russians have reportedly had 6 generals killed
when is the last time you saw an army lose 6 generals
I think Ukraine had a little help killing them
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I'm assuming he misspoke, but this is a really bad time to misspeak on this particular subject.
There is zero doubt the Russian propagandists will latch onto it and say, "See, we TOLD you the USA was going to send in troops!"
take away the microphone and the twitter account
he's clueless
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Once again Bidens statement had to be corrected
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/white-house-us-troops-not-going-to-ukraine-biden-comments-in-poland
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Uhhh.... I hope this is just one of those classic Biden blunders and not for realz yo:
https://twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1507379407605977092?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507379407605977092%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAndrewFeinberg%2Fstatus%2F1507379407605977092%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1507398345190481975257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es2_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16%2Ftopics%2F3280131
yikes. that's not good. but the guy is 80 years old and suffering from dementia, so maybe it's just his typical old man babbling ie corn pop being a dude and the black kids touching his hairy legs.
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Potentially indicating a change in Russian strategy and possibly an "off-ramp" for Russia to deescalate and "declare victory?"
https://twitter.com/AlexKokcharov/status/1507373076207570964?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507373076207570964%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAlexKokcharov%2Fstatus%2F1507373076207570964%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1507373076207570964257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es1_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16%2Ftopics%2F3274372%2F385
Buying a Big Mac, just to eat the lettuce. Shrewd.
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I'm assuming he misspoke, but this is a really bad time to misspeak on this particular subject.
There is zero doubt the Russian propagandists will latch onto it and say, "See, we TOLD you the USA was going to send in troops!"
yeah, really bad timing to misspeak. it's also a bad time for him to be calling Putin a war criminal. Like I get the sentiment to say that- I certainly agree with that- and it's fine if the media goes on about that- but the President of the United States should not be declaring that and making statements that will probably only inflame tensions and escalate the situation. Have to practice a little bit of measure and diplomacy and try to diffuse tensions and deescalate the situation.
Biden has a fat mouth in his old man stage- the guy was not really flying off at the mouth before. His big mouth cost him with the Saudis and seriously damaged US-Saudi relations. Don't need it inflaming this current crisis.
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https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1507071640462663682?s=20&t=W8VpExyUnTfuXGtfg8Kqvw
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this is why the Hitler crap is ridiculous.....guess this idiot must've never heard of Zyklon B...
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1507138381758832644?s=20&t=W8VpExyUnTfuXGtfg8Kqvw
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yeah, really bad timing to misspeak. it's also a bad time for him to be calling Putin a war criminal. Like I get the sentiment to say that- I certainly agree with that- and it's fine if the media goes on about that- but the President of the United States should not be declaring that and making statements that will probably only inflame tensions and escalate the situation. Have to practice a little bit of measure and diplomacy and try to diffuse tensions and deescalate the situation.
Biden has a fat mouth in his old man stage- the guy was not really flying off at the mouth before. His big mouth cost him with the Saudis and seriously damaged US-Saudi relations. Don't need it inflaming this current crisis.
What military authority are you?
It has been well-managed by the U.S., not perfect. The U.S. should have told Putin there were limits that would result in U.S. / NATO military retaliation, if certain weapons were deployed. And, the U. S. might have to open supply chain avenues and avenues for refugees.
Our country should not support the former Soviet Union, or its successor in interest, in an engagement against a sovereign European democracy.
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The Russians have reportedly had 6 generals killed
when is the last time you saw an army lose 6 generals
I think Ukraine had a little help killing them
Seven Russian generals/admirals killed now.
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Zyklon B is not considered a chemical weapon for obvious reasons. It was used, but not weaponized.
Hitler did have considerable stocks of actual chemical weapons, Tabun was one, which were never used.
I think Biden has done better than I expected he might, or feared he might, but in reality it was pretty easy for a coalition to form over this in the West, and China and India were always going to play their games. His misstatement has not been widely reported.
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yikes. that's not good. but the guy is 80 years old and suffering from dementia, so maybe it's just his typical old man babbling ie corn pop being a dude and the black kids touching his hairy legs.
He'll feel better after a diaper change and a scolding
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I guess I'm wrong about the definition of chemical weapon (Zyklon B above):
For the purposes of this Convention:
- “Chemical Weapons” means the following, together or separately:
- Toxic chemicals and their precursors, except where intended for purposes not prohibited under this Convention, as long as the types and quantities are consistent with such purposes;
- Munitions and devices, specifically designed to cause death or other harm through the toxic properties of those toxic chemicals specified in subparagraph (a), which would be released as a result of the employment of such munitions and devices;
- Any equipment specifically designed for use directly in connection with the employment of munitions and devices specified in subparagraph (b).
- “Toxic Chemical” means:
Any chemical which through its chemical action on life processes can cause death, temporary incapacitation or permanent harm to humans or animals. This includes all such chemicals, regardless of their origin or of their method of production, and regardless of whether they are produced in facilities, in munitions or elsewhere. (For the purpose of implementing this Convention, toxic chemicals which have been identified for the application of verification measures are listed in Schedules contained in the Annex on Chemicals.)
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Obviously, many lab chemicals are toxic, they aren't being used to hurt humans, hopefully, but could be. Reactive chemicals are quite useful, and they react with things like people adversely. It's sort of interesting to me they are classified as a weapon unless used for "useful purposes". So, as soon as I take some chemical and employ it to harm a person, I have weaponized it?
That strikes me as overly broad, but there it is. Literally.
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I don't think it would be difficult to distinguish use of chemical weapons in practice.
Hopefully we won't have to.
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The common nerve agents and their residues are detectable with near certainty. Some are persistent, for a time, others degrade fairly quickly but that too is easily detected.
Nerve agents are basically pesticides on steroids. They cause your nerves to all fire uncontrollably to the point you can break your own bones apparently. And they are liquids at room temperature. The weaponization requires they be dispersed without destroying them.
I once worked on pest control, briefly, it was interesting.
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I'm assuming he misspoke, but this is a really bad time to misspeak on this particular subject.
There is zero doubt the Russian propagandists will latch onto it and say, "See, we TOLD you the USA was going to send in troops!"
What if he didn't misspeak?
What if the gaffe was revealing the true plan while he was not supposed to do so?
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Yeah, it's not as if he misspeaks very often.
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What if he didn't misspeak?
What if the gaffe was revealing the true plan while he was not supposed to do so?
The White House has walked this back so I really dont think our troops are going to Ukraine
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The White House has walked this back so I really dont think our troops are going to Ukraine
A lot of crap gets walked back, and then it happens.
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Zyklon B is not considered a chemical weapon for obvious reasons. It was used, but not weaponized.
Hitler did have considerable stocks of actual chemical weapons, Tabun was one, which were never used.
I think Biden has done better than I expected he might, or feared he might, but in reality it was pretty easy for a coalition to form over this in the West, and China and India were always going to play their games. His misstatement has not been widely reported.
Yeah, that's just flat out stupid talk. Zyklon B is a chemical agent- and it was WEAPONIZED AND USED by the German military as a WEAPON in gas chambers to kill MILLIONS of people all for the crime of being Jewish. Hitler ALSO used chemical weapons when he dropped bombs containing sulfur mustard gas on Warsaw in 1939 and he also used asphyxiating gas in Ukraine and Russia. No one should be compared to Hitler, period.
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What military authority are you?
It has been well-managed by the U.S., not perfect. The U.S. should have told Putin there were limits that would result in U.S. / NATO military retaliation, if certain weapons were deployed. And, the U. S. might have to open supply chain avenues and avenues for refugees.
Our country should not support the former Soviet Union, or its successor in interest, in an engagement against a sovereign European democracy.
Yeah, and what military authority are you?
The idea that Biden should not be inflaming the situation and popping off at the mouth has nothing to do with military authority- it's COMMON F***KING SENSE.
The "red-line" bullsh**t about chemical weapons is just stupid and invites Ukrainians who are desperate for 'Merica to jump in and start WWIII to pull off false flags- as was the case in Syria. And Obama's "red-lines" there proved to be nothing but a bluff anyway.
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Yeah, that's just flat out stupid talk. Zyklon B is a chemical agent- and it was WEAPONIZED AND USED by the German military as a WEAPON in gas chambers to kill MILLIONS of people all for the crime of being Jewish. Hitler ALSO used chemical weapons when he dropped bombs containing sulfur mustard gas on Warsaw in 1939 and he also used asphyxiating gas in Ukraine and Russia. No one should be compared to Hitler, period.
I corrected my post by looking up the definition of "chemical weapon". I didn't think of it as a weapon in the normal sense, but it is classified as such, my mistake.
I was not aware Hitler ordered the use of mustard agent in Poland in 1939. That is a surprise to me, he had much more toxic agents available, and didn't use them.
Napoleon can be compared with Hitler, and contrasted as well of course. They share some commonalities of course.
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Biden says Putin ‘cannot remain in power’ in sweeping speech on Russian invasion of Ukraine
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Mdot is an expert on everything. Just ask him.
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Biden says Putin ‘cannot remain in power’ in sweeping speech on Russian invasion of Ukraine
As usual- the White House is frantically trying to walk that statement back. 😂😂😂
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As usual- the White House is frantically trying to walk that statement back. 😂😂😂
How the hell do you walk that back? This is insane. His handlers better get him under control or WW3 starts.
You cant write this stuff.
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What if he didn't misspeak?
What if the gaffe was revealing the true plan while he was not supposed to do so?
"What if my aunt had balls?"
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"What if my aunt had balls?"
Careful. That’s pretty common these days. 😂😂
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your idea of pretty common and mine are different
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Careful. That’s pretty common these days. 😂😂
yep and now she doesnt really have to have balls but only envisions that she has balls
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"What if my aunt had balls?"
What if #46 disclosed the truth he wasn't supposed to yesterday? You know, regime change and all that?
I'm guessing he went to bed without ice cream the past couple of days, and that his handlers hid all of the candy on AF#1.
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Walking back ... walking back.
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Circle back. Circle back.
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What if #46 disclosed the truth he wasn't supposed to yesterday? You know, regime change and all that?
Then it would be quite a thing.
But we can build ourselves a whole world of the more wild “what ifs.” And in the end, they’re more often wild stories we tell ourselves to make the world seem more interesting.
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I don't see much support for direct military engagement here by anyone outside Ukraine and Estonia, I'm not sure about Poland. I view it as unlikely barring accident.
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https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1507605707713044480?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507605707713044480%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnexta_tv%2Fstatus%2F1507605707713044480
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https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1508044270694973441?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1508044270694973441%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmaxseddon%2Fstatus%2F1508044270694973441%3Fs%3D2126t%3DGDhWu9foFmlHyzyYuI3iFQ
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The rebalancing of world power resulting from dickface putin's insane invasion is something we haven't seen since 1945. The cohesion among European states resulting from this, is something that the EU Vision could never even have dreamed of thirty years ago.
Russian agents and sympathizers are being ejected from all of their former strongholds within Europe. The longtime bad actors are being outed, and ostracized. Austrian infiltration has been understood for a while but now there won't be any place for them to hide. The Czechs who've long had an alliance with Hungary, are now openly castigating Hungary for its pro-Russian stance. The dominoes are falling all over Europe.
This can't be anything other than eye-opening for another world power that likes to play on strife and division within the Western states.
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Sean Penn in a tearful interview on shitbag CNN no less- says he’s going to destroy his Academy Award if Zelensky isn’t invited to speak at the upcoming Oscars ceremony.
Damn those South Park guys were right on the money about him all those years ago.
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Biden says Putin ‘cannot remain in power’ in sweeping speech on Russian invasion of Ukraine
That’ll go over well in Moscow.
JFC this guy is a literal disaster.
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I don't see much support for direct military engagement here by anyone outside Ukraine and Estonia, I'm not sure about Poland. I view it as unlikely barring accident.
Poland definitely showed that they don’t want the smoke with that whole mig fighter jet fiasco. US gave Poland the “green light” to fly those jets into Ukraine, Poland turned around and publicly declared nah well give them to you and you can fly them in.
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Sean Penn has always been a pretentious douchebag. He takes his profession far too seriously.
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Fast Times at Ridgemont High was the pinnacle of his acting career.
I'm starting to see a possible end to this conflict, after a lot of talking.
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Sean Penn in a tearful interview on shitbag CNN no less- says he’s going to destroy his Academy Award if Zelensky isn’t invited to speak at the upcoming Oscars ceremony.
Damn those South Park guys were right on the money about him all those years ago.
Yep thats what the oscars need to do
20 years ago the oscars had over 57 mil viewers and last year 19 mil viewers
when will these folks get a clue about what the American people want to watch
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Fast Times at Ridgemont High was the pinnacle of his acting career.
I'm starting to see a possible end to this conflict, after a lot of talking.
actually the news is saying the same thing
hope for the best
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https://twitter.com/AlexHortonTX/status/1508074795795156992?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1508074795795156992%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAlexHortonTX%2Fstatus%2F1508074795795156992%3Fs%3D2026t%3DvcUqITUB0D1pXAb12-alZg
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I'm seriously getting annoyed with Zelensky. He's slamming the US and the EU now for not doing enough. US/EU doesn't owe you nothing, pal. Be grateful for what you get- which has been considerable and more than US gives most countries. US has been training and funding Ukraine military forces for 8 years now and they've flooding said forces with lethal arms for 5 years now- and just approved another $14 billion aid package. Also put massive sanctions on Russia- and banned import of their oil- and their oil made up just under 10% of all the oil that the US imports.
Sorry we aren't going to start WWIII for you buddy. What more does this guy want the US to do?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/03/27/ukraine-russia-zelensky-biden-nato/
https://news.yahoo.com/zelenskyy-russia-sowing-deep-hatred-052152958.html
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I'll cut Zelensky some slack
he's in a tough spot
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I'll cut Zelensky some slack
he's in a tough spot
yeah, I won't. he's begging and crying for the US to start WWIII. Yeah, no thanks.
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I don't mind him begging and crying
but, I don't want Biden to start WWIII either
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Alright, ask me for a knife to cut a rope and then don't complain when I give you 17 spoons, 3 forks, and some gummy bears. Just accept it. Be grateful.
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Alright, ask me for a knife to cut a rope and then don't complain when I give you 17 spoons, 3 forks, and some gummy bears. Just accept it. Be grateful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RcXl7cfnF8
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Oh, I've said way dumber stuff in the past. :96:
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Sean Penn has always been a pretentious douchebag. He takes his profession far too seriously.
https://youtu.be/qOH9trJLedk?t=42
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Mdot please tell me you don't find that entertaining or you went looking for it and saved it for this special moment - I thought you didn't drink?
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I sure wasn't clickin on it
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The fact that we're into week 5 of a 3 day war means that Zelensky is playing with house money. So I don't blame him for pushing for a no fly zone knowing he won't get it.
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yeah, I won't. he's begging and crying for the US to start WWIII. Yeah, no thanks.
Your opinion is shit.
He's begging for his life and the life of his people. He gets to do that. You don't get to say shit about it.
Of course NATO can't provide that, but he still gets to beg for it, and you get to sit down, and shut your fucking face about it.
The End.
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The end.
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I hope the West is getting some over the horizon anti-ship missiles to Ukraine in addition to high altitude SAMs, and thousands of killer drones, Javelin, and Stinger missiles. I read somewhere Poland might break up their Mig29s and ship them to Ukraine for parts.
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Russia-India: India buys cheap Russian oil; China could be next (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/28/russia-india-india-buys-cheap-russian-oil-china-could-be-next.html)
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Your opinion is shit.
He's begging for his life and the life of his people. He gets to do that. You don't get to say shit about it.
Of course NATO can't provide that, but he still gets to beg for it, and you get to sit down, and shut your fucking face about it.
The End.
were you up a bit past your bedtime?
Geeez
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were you up a bit past your bedtime?
Geeez
I got blasted last night. Didn't come here to post. Thankfully.
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https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1508391079288225804?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1508391079288225804%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1508391079288225804
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Are they giving the mayors a choice they can't refuse, but do anyway?
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Are they giving the mayors a choice they can't refuse, but do anyway?
That'd be my guess.
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Russia-India: India buys cheap Russian oil; China could be next (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/28/russia-india-india-buys-cheap-russian-oil-china-could-be-next.html)
with all the aid we send to India we should cut that immediately
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https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1508422569875103752?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1508422569875103752%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmaxseddon%2Fstatus%2F1508422569875103752
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US Foreign Aid by Country 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com) (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/us-foreign-aid-by-country)
India is pretty far down the list.
Compared to other nations, the U.S. by far spends more foreign aid than anyone else. Germany (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/germany-population) is the next largest donor, but the U.S. spends over $10 billion a year more than this nation. That said, when considering foreign aid as a percentage of total GDP (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-gdp) ($21.43 trillion in 2019 (https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=US)), the U.S. is one of the lowest spenders among all developed countries.
Here are the 10 countries that receive the most foreign aid:
- Iraq (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/iraq-population) ($1.17 Bn)
- Jordan (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/jordan-population) ($1.16 Bn)
- Syria (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/syria-population) ($819.37 Mn)
- Ethiopia (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/ethiopia-population) ($806.91 Mn)
- Afghanistan (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/afghanistan-population) ($760.17 Mn)
- South Sudan (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/south-sudan-population) ($749.53 Mn)
- Nigeria (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/nigeria-population) ($739.50 Mn)
- DR Congo (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/dr-congo-population) ($672.06 Mn)
- Yemen (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/yemen-population) ($633.60 Mn)
- Kenya (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/kenya-population) ($591.36 Mn)
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be a MUCH lower spender if I was in charge
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be a MUCH lower spender if I was in charge
All your aid would go to Budweiser.
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All your aid would go to Budweiser.
and the cart girl
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as it does today
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can we cut our aid to Afghanistan
we probably could use the billion dollars for something
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https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1508422569875103752?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1508422569875103752%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmaxseddon%2Fstatus%2F1508422569875103752
I'm so bummed. Darn it.
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Then it would be quite a thing.
But we can build ourselves a whole world of the more wild “what ifs.” And in the end, they’re more often wild stories we tell ourselves to make the world seem more interesting.
So lemme ask... You approve of our "leader" through all of this?
There is nothing "wild" about this.
We're talking about a guy with nuke codes - a guy that only cares about ice cream.
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I do not approve of our fearless leader or his administration for a great many reasons not to be discussed here. But his recent gaffs, 3 in 2 days, I think demonstrated that he's really not up to the task. Although the last one when he got off his script was right on the mark, that Putin has to go. And they promptly walked it back for him.
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everyone wants Putin gone, but ending the war should be done as quickly as possible.
That leaves Putin in power for a while
and talking about removing Putin to the press doesn't help the matter at all
moron is Biden
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everyone wants Putin gone, but ending the war should be done as quickly as possible.
That leaves Putin in power for a while
and talking about removing Putin to the press doesn't help the matter at all
moron is Biden
I'd love for the war to be over.
But I don't agree that "ending the war should be done as quickly as possible."
Because the reality is, "ending the war" can't, won't, and shouldn't be done, until Ukraine and Russia resolve it.
And the only way I see for that to happen, is for Russia to stop slaughtering Ukraine and withdraw.
But I certainly agree that nobody in the US should be talking openly about removing dickface putin, even if we all know that plans and contingencies are being discussed as we speak, by the governments of pretty much every nation in the world.
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It will end when Russia thinks it has enough, and Ukraine says OK.
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It will end when Russia thinks it has enough, and Ukraine says OK.
I disagree. It will move into insurgency mode at that point. But I don't see Ukraine ever completely capitulating, because they'll just be waiting until the NEXT time Russia invades.
Don't believe me? It's exactly what's happening now, after 2014. As long as Russia has a military, Ukraine will never be done with Russia invading them. And they know this. Which is why they're trying to bleed out Russia's military. And they will continue to try to do that. As long as a single one of them is alive.
Because they know Russia wants to "liberate" them, even if that means slaughtering every last one of them. That's no way to live, and they've clearly decided against it.
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I'd love for the war to be over.
But I don't agree that "ending the war should be done as quickly as possible."
Because the reality is, "ending the war" can't, won't, and shouldn't be done, until Ukraine and Russia resolve it.
And the only way I see for that to happen, is for Russia to stop slaughtering Ukraine and withdraw.
But I certainly agree that nobody in the US should be talking openly about removing dickface putin, even if we all know that plans and contingencies are being discussed as we speak, by the governments of pretty much every nation in the world.
I strongly disagree
stop the slaughtering ASAP, with or without a withdraw or resolution
a withdraw and resolution can be worked out later
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I'm so bummed. Darn it.
Like pretty much everything else Russia does, this hurts their own citizenry a lot more than it hurts anyone else. It cuts off family members from all of those nations, from being able to visit their Russian relatives in Russia. And they're already cracking down on travel of Russians going out of country, I expect that to continue and get much more draconian in the near future.
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I strongly disagree
stop the slaughtering ASAP, with or without a withdraw or resolution
a withdraw and resolution can be worked out later
Only Russia can "stop the slaughtering" so who's going to suggest your solution to dickface putin? I mean, France, Israel, Germany, Turkey, and a dozen other nations have already tried.
Didn't work.
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I think the Ukranian government will eventually say OK to Russian demands, probably with some minor troop withdrawals in the north. What happens after that could be an insurgency in the contested regions. We seem headed for bloody stalemate with Russia targeting civilians now. If Russia can secure Mariopul to some extent, they may agree to a crease fire, and then negotiate.
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I think the Ukranian government will eventually say OK to Russian demands, probably with some minor troop withdrawals in the north. What happens after that could be an insurgency in the contested regions. We seem headed for bloody stalemate with Russia targeting civilians now. If Russia can secure Mariopul to some extent, they may agree to a crease fire, and then negotiate.
I'd like to think that hostilities could end that way, but I don't see it. It's exactly what they did in 2014, and it failed quite spectacularly, as is now obvious. I'll be surprised if they make the same mistake again.
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https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1508422569875103752?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1508422569875103752%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmaxseddon%2Fstatus%2F1508422569875103752
Damn. There goes that Moscow vacation I was planning for next winter. :)
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I say the war ends when China decides to continue it isnt in their best interest
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So lemme ask... You approve of our "leader" through all of this?
There is nothing "wild" about this.
We're talking about a guy with nuke codes - a guy that only cares about ice cream.
I think he’s done a middling to less than middling job with this. He’s done nothing to cover himself in glory and had several spots that were not good at all.
Going doing the wild “what if this is a tip of the outlandish iceberg” thing will most often strike me as wild. I tend to treat the wild ish on the other side the same way.
As for the nuke codes, they’ve been in about as bad of hands before, worse too. Alas just seems like the new normal. (The ice cream thing is part of our “feed me the BS” media cycle, correct? Or something else?)
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I think he's handling it reasonably well, aside from the gaffes in speech. He continues to refuse to engage US troops, which is the correct thing to do, while also condemning dickface putin and applying the only methods we realistically can-- sanctions-- as a punishment and a message that the US will not stand for dickface putin's actions.
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I think he's handling it reasonably well, aside from the gaffes in speech. He continues to refuse to engage US troops, which is the correct thing to do, while also condemning dickface putin and applying the only methods we realistically can-- sanctions-- as a punishment and a message that the US will not stand for dickface putin's actions.
we are probably doing much more then sanctions but cant broadcast it - just my opinion
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we are probably doing much more then sanctions but cant broadcast it - just my opinion
We've been giving them intelligence from the get-go, both over the air and through more secure channels.
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We've been giving them intelligence from the get-go, both over the air and through more secure channels.
Yes, and that is known and understood by all parties, including the Russians.
And of course we're providing billions in aid, both in lethal weaponry and of the humanitarian variety. That is also well known by all parties, including the Russians.
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https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1508518460405526530?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1508518460405526530%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmaxseddon%2Fstatus%2F1508518460405526530%3Fs%3D2126t%3DAhKhVZ1qz-ZD6z-O3Swikw
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https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1508535259209650182?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1508535259209650182%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1508535259209650182%3Ft%3DyFroJgaFyc_lm4njJ1RB9A26s%3D19
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https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1508465837199572993
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If so, I don't see what the hold up on getting terms would be, now, other than how much the Russians have to withdraw.
What is the Ukranian position on all this? We don't know, rumors.
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From all the various reports, and from Zelenskyy's own statements, it appears Ukraine is willing to drop any future plan to join NATO. Which is easy to do since NATO wasn't going to be able to invite them anyway, with all of the ongoing uncertainty and conflict, which has been part of dickface putin's strategy all along.
But they don't appear to be willing to cede any territory, or any rights to sovereignty. Which is also understandable, because if they cede it now, it'll just be another few years before dickface putin comes back and invades more. He believes all of Ukraine should be subjugated to Russia, and he's proven that for the past decade. The proof is in the pudding. Nothing more need be said. I don't suspect Ukraine will make the same mistake they did in 2014. They know better, now.
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https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1508785196124024838?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1508785196124024838%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1508785196124024838
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https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1508792391502807047?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1508792391502807047%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1508792391502807047
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Goes to show you how much Putin trusts his negotiators.
As for the Ukranian position, I would imagine it's a minimum of status quo ante bellum, if not more.
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Ukraine will end up acknowledging Crimea and Donbass are now part of Russia, among other things. That would leave "The West" in a spot of sorts.
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Goes to show you how much Putin trusts his negotiators.
As for the Ukranian position, I would imagine it's a minimum of status quo ante bellum, if not more.
that's probably accurate, but who get to define ante bellum? i'm guessing ukraine consider at least 2014 and not 2008 that starting point, but doubt putin will.
also will be interesting to see how/when the sanctions will be walked back. the us/eu needs to give ukraine at least some control over those terms to use as a negotiating asset.
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sanctions will not be walked back until Ukraine is satisfied with the current situation
Until a cease fire agreement is signed sanctions will continue
This might be a head fake by Putin you cant trust him
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Ukraine will end up acknowledging Crimea and Donbass are now part of Russia, among other things. That would leave "The West" in a spot of sorts.
I very much doubt that Ukraine will accept a Russian occupation of Donbas. That would be a smashing victory for Putin.
Right now, A) Ukraine is negotiating from a position of strength, B) their forces are everything the Russians aren't (fed, fueled, supplied, with high morale to boot), and C) the Kremlin cannot be trusted to carry out any action right now. Trust but verify.
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sanctions will not be walked back until Ukraine is satisfied with the current situation
Until a cease fire agreement is signed sanctions will continue
This might be a head fake by Putin you cant trust him
dickface putin's regime announced it was scaling back hostilities in Kyiv, and as the reporter in Kyiv is talking about it, with the graphic on the screen stating it, you can still hear obvious shelling occurring in the background. It' all bullshit.
Every word from his mouth is a lie. Every accusation, a confession.
Same as it ever was.
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They could have "scaled back" from say 60 artillery shells per hour to 50.
And that could be because of supply shortages.
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They could have "scaled back" from say 60 artillery shells per hour to 50.
And that could be because of supply shortages.
Sure. Saying "scale back" or "reduce" or "deescalate" is all just wordplay.
But the fact remains that actions speak louder than words, especially when the person talking lies about every single thing.
The only way to believe that Russia will cease its murderous hostilities, is when they actually stop doing it. Until then, all parties must proceed based solely on what actions are being taken by dickface putin and his stooges.
Every word is a lie.
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It is literally a true statement (perhaps), but it's an assertion with no relevance.
A lot of irrelevancies are literally true.
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that's probably accurate, but who get to define ante bellum?
The Lady.
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It is literally a true statement (perhaps), but it's an assertion with no relevance.
A lot of irrelevancies are literally true.
It is unprovable at this point whether or not it is literally true.
So it's really nothing, at all.
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https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1508827938732625920?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1508827938732625920%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1508827938732625920%3Fs%3D2026t%3DRCAWY1fDmO04h2RRQapEEg
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It is unprovable at this point whether or not it is literally true.
So it's really nothing, at all.
As I said, it PERHAPS is literally true, and it could be true because of supply issues, not a policy change.
Sometimes one can read some tea leaves on such statements.
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Top commander in Europe: US not 'currently training' Ukrainian forces in Poland | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/600189-top-us-commander-in-europe-washington-not-currently-training-ukrainian)
At some point, the explanations get as bad as the original statement.
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By the looks of it Ukraine could probably train US troops
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If Fearless were in charge of the Russian army, this would spell the end of the invasion:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tr6v3t/budweiser_leaves_russia_the_worlds_largest_beer/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=661397a972f744ce92f0120fb65322df&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=tr6v3t
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with all the aid we send to India we should cut that immediately
we don't really send that much aid to India #1. Average is something like $140 million a year over the last 20 years. That's a minuscule percentage of the yearly federal budget.
#2 - India is just acting in the best national interests of India. This is pretty much how all countries operate. They need oil for an expanding economy that will soon be the 3rd largest economy in the world and a massive population that is growing like a weed and outpacing China and will soon become the largest population in the world- and if they can buy oil at a discount- well of course they are going to do it. India's national interests don't equal US national interests or Ukraine national interests.
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I say the war ends when China decides to continue it isnt in their best interest
China has considerable leverage over Russia- but I think it's quite obvious that Putin sees Ukraine being in Russia's orbit or sphere of influence as existential to Russia- and that he doesn't really give a sh*t about what the rest of the world thinks, unfortunately. China absolutely could put the most pressure on him of any nation out there to end it- but that might not even be enough.
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we don't really send that much aid to India #1. Average is something like $140 million a year over the last 20 years. That's a minuscule percentage of the yearly federal budget.
good thats $140 mil a year we can put to good use here at home
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good thats $140 mil a year we can put to good use here at home
$140 million is the average over 20 years. It's actually around $110 million now per cincy's link. That's an insignificant amount in the grand scheme of things when you're talking about a federal budget that's 6-7 trillion dollars. $110 million is a drop in the bucket that won't even buy 1,000 hammers and 1,000 toilet seats for the pentagon.
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$140 million is the average over 20 years. It's actually around $110 million now per cincy's link. That's an insignificant amount in the grand scheme of things when you're talking about a federal budget that's 6-7 trillion dollars. $110 million is a drop in the bucket that won't even buy 1,000 hammers and 1,000 toilet seats for the pentagon.
good then they wont miss it
Id also review our tariffs that we have with India
nothing personal its just business
India has decided that getting Russian oil is more important then trying to persuade Putin not to attack other nations so they should understand
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I do not approve of our fearless leader or his administration for a great many reasons not to be discussed here. But his recent gaffs, 3 in 2 days, I think demonstrated that he's really not up to the task. Although the last one when he got off his script was right on the mark, that Putin has to go. And they promptly walked it back for him.
agree 100% - the guy puts his foot in his mouth every time he opens it and has to have his administration walk it back
https://twitter.com/BMarchetich/status/1508845462413008897?s=20&t=BHxwgAE8wDOE1W0uJbbAyA
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good then they wont miss it
Id also review our tariffs that we have with India
nothing personal its just business
India has decided that getting Russian oil is more important then trying to persuade Putin not to attack other nations so they should understand
how would pulling $110 million in aid and imposing tariffs on India be business just because they decided to buy Russian oil at discounts? It wouldn't. That actually sounds like quite the opposite- sounds like an emotional or personal reaction- and not business.
You do realize how stupid that sounds, no - when basically all of Western Europe is still buying oil & gas from Russia. Today. How about you pull aid and impose tariffs on EU countries while you're at it?
US is the moral arbiter of nothing and no one. We have stacked way higher dead body counts and have more blood on our hands than just about any country in the world. If we want to impose bans in the US from importing Russian oil, that's fine. We can't tell other countries what they can and can't do and then act all emotional like a bunch of females when they don't do what we tell them to do.
India is the 3rd largest consumer of oil in the world as well as the 3rd largest importer of oil in the world behind only China and the US. They consume a lot more oil than they produce. They only produce around 627k barrels of oil per day- they consume almost 4.5 million. It's not realistic or fair to tell them they can't buy oil from Russia because we said so. Of course they are going to buy it- and of course they'll buy it at discounts. They literally have to- they have no other choice as they import around 85-86% of their total oil consumption.
I think India government official said it best in that article....
“Countries with oil self-sufficiency or those importing themselves from Russia cannot credibly advocate restrictive trading,”
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https://twitter.com/SergiyKyslytsya/status/1508923062842019842?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1508923062842019842%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FSergiyKyslytsya%2Fstatus%2F1508923062842019842%3Fs%3D2026t%3DUuM_zNrjMiq6lkconvHgKA
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how would pulling $110 million in aid and imposing tariffs on India be business just because they decided to buy Russian oil at discounts? It wouldn't. That actually sounds like quite the opposite- sounds like an emotional or personal reaction- and not business.
You do realize how stupid that sounds, no - when basically all of Western Europe is still buying oil & gas from Russia. Today. How about you pull aid and impose tariffs on EU countries while you're at it?
US is the moral arbiter of nothing and no one. We have stacked way higher dead body counts and have more blood on our hands than just about any country in the world. If we want to impose bans in the US from importing Russian oil, that's fine. We can't tell other countries what they can and can't do and then act all emotional like a bunch of females when they don't do what we tell them to do.
India is the 3rd largest consumer of oil in the world as well as the 3rd largest importer of oil in the world behind only China and the US. They consume a lot more oil than they produce. They only produce around 627k barrels of oil per day- they consume almost 4.5 million. It's not realistic or fair to tell them they can't buy oil from Russia because we said so. Of course they are going to buy it- and of course they'll buy it at discounts. They literally have to- they have no other choice as they import around 85-86% of their total oil consumption.
I think India government official said it best in that article....
“Countries with oil self-sufficiency or those importing themselves from Russia cannot credibly advocate restrictive trading,”
never the less I'd make that decision as uncomfortable for them as possible
They clearly dont share the world's values of freedom so they suffer the consequences
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https://twitter.com/SergiyKyslytsya/status/1508923062842019842?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1508923062842019842%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FSergiyKyslytsya%2Fstatus%2F1508923062842019842%3Fs%3D2026t%3DUuM_zNrjMiq6lkconvHgKA
I like the swagger
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Nothing to do with Ukraine. Post it somewhere else.
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Russia vows to reduce Ukraine attacks after talks, but the U.S. is skeptical : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/03/29/1089511141/russia-ukraine-war-peace-talks)
It is consistent with what is known that Russian forces, stalled near Kyiv, now will focus more on the Donbass and Mariupol. They may be supply starved near Kyiv and thus can claim to be reducing attacks but have no real choice. Their end game may be recognition of Crimea as Russia and a land bridge to the Donbass.
The Donbass region is about 9% of total Ukraine land area.
If Ukraine doesn't accept this, they could bring in more artillery to strike around Kyiv and continue demolishing the area making it painful for Ukraine to resist further, and they can attack Lviv in the west with rockets, and perhaps even go for Odessa (though that now seems out of their capacity).
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Russia followed up their announcement of "fewer attacks on Kyiv" with heavier bombardment the past two nights, than before.
They're lying sacks of shit.
To negotiate with them, is to be abused by them. It's not ever going to be in Ukraine's interest to cede any territory to Russia, because inevitably they'll come back and kill more Ukrainians when they feel like taking more.
This isn't speculation, it's the reality of what's happening right now.
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What is the alternative for Ukraine? Russia eventually can simply pound them to dust with long range artillery and missile strikes.
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What is the alternative for Ukraine? Russia eventually can simply pound them to dust with long range artillery and missile strikes.
There are no alternatives. Russia is intent on slaughtering Ukraine. This will happen regardless of any treaty or ceasefire.
Currently, Ukrainians appear to want to fight. If they continue to want to fight, then they will do so. Many will die. Many would die anyway, because Russia isn't ever going to stop, unless Ukraine and the world can make them.
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I think Ukraine at some point has to cave and perhaps get some minor concessions from Russia.
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I think Ukraine at some point has to cave and perhaps get some minor concessions from Russia.
Lots of Westerners seem to think that.
It doesn't really matter what we think. It only matters what Ukraine thinks. And they've been subjected to Russian aggression and slaughter for centuries.
If some foreign invader had moved into Texas through Mexico, leveled San Antonio, blown up an apartment building in the suburbs of Austin killing my grandparents in the blast, and shot and killed my wife and children in the streets of New Braunfels as they were trying to evacuate through an alleged humanitarian corridor, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't stop fighting until every single invader was dead at my feet, or I had died trying.
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I think Ukraine at some point has to cave and perhaps get some minor concessions from Russia.
Absolutely not. The West needs to keep supplying Ukraine so they can drive the Russians completely out including Donbas and Crimea.
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it is pretty amazing to see corporate media take a drastic turn in their rightful calling out of Azov Battalion as what they are- racist, neo-nazi hate group militia from 2014-2021, to where they are now, basically writing Azov off as- meh no big deal- they're just moderate nazis.
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1509172679542194181?s=20&t=2xhsG75LjYmsFhHE6ur0VQ
https://twitter.com/AlanRMacLeod/status/1509092670223884290?s=20&t=2xhsG75LjYmsFhHE6ur0VQ
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very rarely agree with Mehdi Hasan, but feel like he's on point here...
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1508819745138692105?s=20&t=2xhsG75LjYmsFhHE6ur0VQ
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1508820090631905280?s=20&t=2xhsG75LjYmsFhHE6ur0VQ
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1508820637866938377?s=20&t=2xhsG75LjYmsFhHE6ur0VQ
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It's a very small fraction of Ukraine's overall fighting force. I certainly don't approve of nazism, nor do I approve of fascism, hate, bigotry, and intolerance, in any other form it takes.
Right now it's Russia that is committing genocide, not the Azov battalion, so I'm okay with focusing on that as the primary problem.
At the end of this all, if any of the Azov or other neo-nazis are still alive, then I'd push for denouncement and renunciation of them.
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very rarely agree with Mehdi Hasan, but feel like he's on point here...
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1508819745138692105?s=20&t=2xhsG75LjYmsFhHE6ur0VQ
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1508820090631905280?s=20&t=2xhsG75LjYmsFhHE6ur0VQ
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1508820637866938377?s=20&t=2xhsG75LjYmsFhHE6ur0VQ
He's not on point, he's a rabble-rousing shit-talker.
The only reason Ukraine is including any of that in their language for the negotiation, is because Russia has publicly stated those terms as part of their aim. It's an easy concession for Ukraine to make, since they weren't going to be allowed to join NATO anyway-- dickface putin's constant conflicts in Donbas assured that.
The only way Hasan's opinion could be proven correct, is if Russia signs a peace treaty that includes complete withdrawal from all Ukrainian territories taken since this current invasion began in February 2022, with assurances that other than NATO membership being off-limits and Ukraine agreeing not to host foreign military bases on its soil, Russia will never again attempt to coerce or steer Ukraine's free determination of its sovereign national rights.
But there's no way that's going to happen, because Russia invaded for the purpose of stealing Ukrainian territory and subjugating Ukraine as a Russian vassal state, which means Hasan is a blowhard that's full of shit, and an unabashed apologist for dickface putin.
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Absolutely not. The West needs to keep supplying Ukraine so they can drive the Russians completely out including Donbas and Crimea.
I don't view that as a likely possibility, at all. It's like pining for term limits.
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It's a very small fraction of Ukraine's overall fighting force. I certainly don't approve of nazism, nor do I approve of fascism, hate, bigotry, and intolerance, in any other form it takes.
Right now it's Russia that is committing genocide, not the Azov battalion, so I'm okay with focusing on that as the primary problem.
At the end of this all, if any of the Azov or other neo-nazis are still alive, then I'd push for denouncement and renunciation of them.
Ukraine is being attacked, invaded, and slaughtered by their much larger neighbor in a clear act of pure aggression and illegal warfare- so I get they'll take all the help they can get. And from 2014-2021, Azov was amongst the very best fighters Ukraine had- hence their incorporation into the armed forces of the state. But it was a very dangerous thing and playing with fire to allow them so close to the levers of power and incorporate them into the countries armed forces.
And Putin's propaganda about Ukraine being full of Nazis- well all his invasion could possibly do is empower and embolden that neo-nazi faction. Neo-nazi's don't take hold in a country when things are peaceful and times are relatively good. There are only around 1,500 members in the Azov unit and the far right ultra-nationalist parties only got around 2% of the vote in the last elections in Ukraine. So it's clearly not obviously accepted or widely adopted in Ukraine or the society. Destroying the country of Ukraine and turning it into rubble and creating nothing but death and chaos will only increase the chances the power of those nazis you claim to be fighting grows though.
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When we call someone a neoNazi, what does it mean they believe, broadly speaking?
Is it an overly generalized term that can mean different things for different groups?
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Poland to end Russian oil imports; Germany warns on gas | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/wire/600366-poland-to-end-russian-oil-imports-germany-warns-on-gas)
The EU claims it's moving away from Russian petrochemicals. If this happens, it would be a significant shift that wouldn't reverse readily even if Putin stepped down. It will make Russia dependent on China/India and with less influence in the West.
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every day Russia seems to be getting their butts kicked
time is on Ukraines side
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Ukraine is being attacked, invaded, and slaughtered by their much larger neighbor in a clear act of pure aggression and illegal warfare- so I get they'll take all the help they can get. And from 2014-2021, Azov was amongst the very best fighters Ukraine had- hence their incorporation into the armed forces of the state. But it was a very dangerous thing and playing with fire to allow them so close to the levers of power and incorporate them into the countries armed forces.
And Putin's propaganda about Ukraine being full of Nazis- well all his invasion could possibly do is empower and embolden that neo-nazi faction. Neo-nazi's don't take hold in a country when things are peaceful and times are relatively good. There are only around 1,500 members in the Azov unit and the far right ultra-nationalist parties only got around 2% of the vote in the last elections in Ukraine. So it's clearly not obviously accepted or widely adopted in Ukraine or the society. Destroying the country of Ukraine and turning it into rubble and creating nothing but death and chaos will only increase the chances the power of those nazis you claim to be fighting grows though.
Agree on both counts-- allowing Azov to remain, and become more powerful and visible, is a large part of their perception problem to this day, and it enabled Russia to capitalize on it. And I also agree that this aggression will only serve to foment more hate and intolerance. Ultimately, after this horrific slaughter comes to whatever end it may, the neo nazis are going to be the very smallest faction of hate-filled Ukrainians. There's going to be significantly more hate and disgust and intolerance directed at Russia. It's going to make the neo nazi rhetoric pale by comparison.
I think about my grandfather and his friends, who fought in WW2 and survived. They were some of the kindest, gentlest, most tolerant people ever. And they also hated the Japanese and Germans with the white hot passion of ten thousand burning suns. And they weren't even watching their own homes burn and their own families get slaughtered.
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When we call someone a neoNazi, what does it mean they believe, broadly speaking?
Is it an overly generalized term that can mean different things for different groups?
I think it's definitely overly generalized these days. It seems to be used almost interchangeably with the term fascist, and those that use it in that manner, do so specifically because it has so many horrifying connotations for so many people. It's an intentional play to evoke a heated response based on longstanding emotional trauma.
The stricter definition would be, those that follow in the racist doctrine of nazi Germany, specifically the hatred of Jews and other various minorities. And by that stricter definition, a large percentage of the Azov Battalion in Ukraine still fits the bill.
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The Nazis hated a lot more than just Jews of course, "untermenschen" was the term. I think of the term as meaning someone who wants "purity" and a nationalistic view of life, you want "France for the French", as an example (which is a fairly popular notion). I'd oppose it to multiculturalism. Hitler viewed the US as a nation of mongrels because we had so many different "tribes" more or less mixed together (less back then).
Curiously, Japan fits this definition pretty closely.
Where is gets extreme is when measures are considered to achieve "national purity" after it was lost, like in the US how that would mean we'd have to kick out all the European Americans et al.
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Patriotism, nationalism, jingoism, fascism, naziism.
Gotta be careful with all those isms.
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Takes some guts...
https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1509253049440739332?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1509253049440739332%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FLiveuamap%2Fstatus%2F1509253049440739332%3Fs%3D2026t%3Dx89S6ga_YyxYz1DAXuY-zA
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why couldnt you just shoot them and explode them to clear it
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why couldnt you just shoot them and explode them to clear it
Not sure what normal protocol would be. Perhaps they don't want to damage the road? Or they want it to remain impassable for Russian heavy equipment? The Ukrainian infantry is using a lot of passenger cars and trucks to get around, while the Russians are using larger armored stuff.
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so its possible the mines were put there by the Ukraines
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Russia's Vladimir Putin feels military leaders misled him about Ukraine (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/30/russias-vladimir-putin-feels-military-leaders-misled-him-about-ukraine.html)
This is why I think the changed gameplan is for the Donbas region and the land corridor to Crimea. Pound Kyiv et al. until the Ukrainians say uncle.
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Russia's Vladimir Putin feels military leaders misled him about Ukraine (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/30/russias-vladimir-putin-feels-military-leaders-misled-him-about-ukraine.html)
This is why I think the changed gameplan is for the Donbas region and the land corridor to Crimea. Pound Kyiv et al. until the Ukrainians say uncle.
if they are waiting for the Ukrainians to say uncle they better pack a lunch cause its gonna take a while
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Takes some guts...
https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1509253049440739332?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1509253049440739332%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FLiveuamap%2Fstatus%2F1509253049440739332%3Fs%3D2026t%3Dx89S6ga_YyxYz1DAXuY-zA
Looks like something my dad would set up to keep us away from the KEG
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if they are waiting for the Ukrainians to say uncle they better pack a lunch cause its gonna take a while
Yup.
The Ukrainians know that even if he "settles" for Donbas, he's just going to come back in a few years and attempt to kill all the rest of them. Again. There's no point at all in attempting to negotiate in good faith with dickface putin, he has no understanding of the concept.
so its possible the mines were put there by the Ukraines
I suppose it's possible, but if they really wanted to blow up Russian mechanized and armored divisions, seems to me that using disguised IEDs would be more effective. But I'm nobody's soldier and I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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When we call someone a neoNazi, what does it mean they believe, broadly speaking?
Is it an overly generalized term that can mean different things for different groups?
it's definitely over-generalized in America. Which is crazy, because the media and some politicians called Americans who wore MAGA hats and didn't want to get vaccines nazis or fascists- and now when they run into actual nazis in Ukraine that the US has been arming and training- they seem to want to explain it away.
The founder of Azov, Andriy Biletsky has been quoted publicly in speeches as saying Ukraine is meant to "lead the white races of the world in a final crusade....against Semite-led Untermenschen". Azov flies Nazi SS wolfsangel symbol flags and also wear said symbol on their uniforms and insignia and also wear the Nazi black sun symbol arm bans and necklaces. Yeah, they're pretty much nazis.
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Russia's Vladimir Putin feels military leaders misled him about Ukraine (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/30/russias-vladimir-putin-feels-military-leaders-misled-him-about-ukraine.html)
This is why I think the changed gameplan is for the Donbas region and the land corridor to Crimea. Pound Kyiv et al. until the Ukrainians say uncle.
military leaders/generals who always itch for war and think they're never wrong are wrong....whoa! who knew!
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https://twitter.com/FootballJOE/status/1507832263697907724?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507832263697907724%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FFootballJOE%2Fstatus%2F1507832263697907724
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so its possible the mines were put there by the Ukraines
You're so helpful.
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https://twitter.com/FootballJOE/status/1507832263697907724?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507832263697907724%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FFootballJOE%2Fstatus%2F1507832263697907724
need more people like this.
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The Kremlin is calling up another 134,500 conscripts between April 1st and July 15th. The Russian Ministry of Defense says the new conscripts "will not be sent to any hot spots," and all those called up last Spring will be sent home.
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What is to keep Russia from sitting back and pounding Ukranian cities until they cry uncle? Would they at some point?
Economic collapse? Putin going away?
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Sure. Troop losses. Economic collapse. Forced regime change, although sadly I think that's wishful thinking. Nobody can get close enough.
Eventually they'll run out of rockets/shells/ammunition. Russian arms factories are already shutting down for lack of subcomponents and raw materials, and they rely on global supply chains to bring in much of that, they don't manufacture all of the subcomponents in-country. China could fill some of that gap but not all of it. And as you see from the global microchip shortages causing massive shortfalls in the production of computers, telephones, and automobiles, missing just one small $3 microcontroller from Taiwan or the Philippines can halt an entire production line of $100,000 vehicles. Russia is using up munitions at a rapid rate, and it'll take them years to replenish their stocks, if ever.
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If they simply dig in along defensible lines, they could keep up artillery barrages for a long time. Dumb shells are not hard to make. This seems to be the plan, we don't hear about any substantive ground being gained by Russian forces. Ukraine might be gaining some ground in places because Russians have simply pulled back to higher ground or across a river. This way you limit casualties on your side but cause increasing destruction of cities.
Then this grinds on and on and on ...
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Germany says they are going to prosecute their citizens who appear to support Russia in the war. Seems a bit f***king crazy to me, but whatevs.
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Germany says they are going to prosecute their citizens who appear to support Russia in the war. Seems a bit f***king crazy to me, but whatevs.
Germany is nuts in many ways
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Germany will prosecute anyone who displays the "Z" symbol in support of Russia
They have a habit of doing shit like this
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If they simply dig in along defensible lines, they could keep up artillery barrages for a long time. Dumb shells are not hard to make. This seems to be the plan, we don't hear about any substantive ground being gained by Russian forces. Ukraine might be gaining some ground in places because Russians have simply pulled back to higher ground or across a river. This way you limit casualties on your side but cause increasing destruction of cities.
Then this grinds on and on and on ...
Their supply lines are shot on anything to the west. They'd have to retreat well to the east in order to do something like this.
Even then, their factories are unlikely to keep up with demand. They're losing equipment to destruction or abandonment at an alarming rate, far more than any other similar invasion in modern history. And they can't rebuild it. That decay started with the original sanctions that kicked in back in 2014 and it'll be multiplied 100x now due not only to sanctions but to the problems in the global supply chain that are unrelated.
In a lot of ways, this really could be the last gasp of a dying superpower.
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https://twitter.com/JackDetsch/status/1509520521624530949?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1509520521624530949%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FJackDetsch%2Fstatus%2F1509520521624530949%3Fs%3D2026t%3DBGK2-K5_pHww2TE-GWXoYw
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https://twitter.com/AP/status/1509500617844305923?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1509500617844305923%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAP%2Fstatus%2F1509500617844305923%3Fs%3D2026t%3DlQf89C-tmpixskcLJm5rpA
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Duh, they want the Donbas region and a land bridge, so that is where they will focus while causing destruction in other areas but staying on the defensive.
I don't think Ukranian forces can do much offensively against resistance. Pinpricks, and they need to be cautious about getting sucked into a killing zone.
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Russian soldiers sabotaging own efforts in Ukraine, UK spy chief says (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/31/russian-soldiers-sabotaging-own-efforts-in-ukraine-uk-spy-chief-says.html?recirc=taboolainternal)
To the extent this is true, the Russians could be in a world of hurt, and this could end it if it becomes widely spread.
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Duh, they want the Donbas region and a land bridge, so that is where they will focus while causing destruction in other areas but staying on the defensive.
I don't think Ukranian forces can do much offensively against resistance. Pinpricks, and they need to be cautious about getting sucked into a killing zone.
Well, there are some things they can do. Dividing the Russian army into north and south and forcing them to go the long way through Russia and Belarus when they want to reposition troops, is going to cause supply line and reactionary problems for the Russians.
https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1509422489574772736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1509422490870853633%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FPhillipsPOBrien%2Fstatus%2F1509422490870853633%3Fs%3D2026t%3D0d0UjRIWJZaLbO6yOqxjlg
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(https://i.imgur.com/WKqALKc.jpg)
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The key to Russia's Ukraine problems is the lack of air superiority
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https://twitter.com/TexasTribune/status/1509561411449638912?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1509561411449638912%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Ftexastribune%2Fstatus%2F1509561411449638912%3Fs%3D2126t%3DusQFqulEfvxWi78yAFM2sA
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https://twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1498074716246052864?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498074716246052864%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fglobal_mil_info%2Fstatus%2F1498074716246052864%3Fs%3D21
So, over a month since they claimed to be pulling back from Kyiv.
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I would agree too, but you never know what someone might do once backed into a corner and also…accidents, mistakes and miscalculations can happen.
US and USSR/Russia were minutes away from nuclear exchange in 1980, 1983, and 1995 bc of mistake/accident.
Did you recently opine we are closer now than any time in the Cold War including Cuba?
I don't recall being minutes away in the 80s, but maybe so.
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Did you recently opine we are closer now than any time in the Cold War including Cuba?
I don't recall being minutes away in the 80s, but maybe so.
I think Mdot is getting his news from the National Inquirer
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So, over a month since they claimed to be pulling back from Kyiv.
And they still aren't actually pulling back military operations. Just repositioning some troops, and shelling harder than they ever have before.
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I think Mdot is getting his news from the National Inquirer
Nah, I don't watch MSNBC.
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Nah, I don't watch MSNBC.
ok just checking
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And they still aren't actually pulling back military operations. Just repositioning some troops, and shelling harder than they ever have before.
What does repositioning mean? They well could be shifting troops east and south, right? And as a result they could focus almost entirely on artillery in the Kyiv region, staying on the defensive with fewer bodies.
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What does repositioning mean? They well could be shifting troops east and south, right? And as a result they could focus almost entirely on artillery in the Kyiv region, staying on the defensive with fewer bodies.
Repositioning means moving. They are certainly doing this, it's witnessed and verifiable. To what tactical or strategic end? Nobody but the Russians could tell you.
The only facts are 1) they stated they were going to scale back military operations in Kyiv and 2) they are shelling more than ever.
So statement 1) was yet another lie.
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https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1509577019754958859?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1509577019754958859%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fsentdefender%2Fstatus%2F1509577019754958859%3Fs%3D2026t%3Dd5oAHjHIBU3MMXoVw3A3hw
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As I note, IF they repositioned combat troops from around Kyiv, they did scale back combat operations in that region. I am fairly sure they replaced better troops with second tier troops dug in on the defensive not trying to gain ground, but they are obviously still using artillery at the same pace. They just aren't attacking on the ground (perhaps).
It's slight of hand, or tongue, but technically could be true.
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As I note, IF they repositioned combat troops from around Kyiv, they did scale back combat operations in that region. I am fairly sure they replaced better troops with second tier troops dug in on the defensive not trying to gain ground, but they are obviously still using artillery at the same pace. They just aren't attacking on the ground (perhaps).
It's slight of hand, or tongue, but technically could be true.
As I note, I disagree with your assessment. If the activities in Kyiv are resulting in more dead Ukrainians than before, then they most certainly have NOT scaled back combat operations. It's obvious, to me. Very cut and dried.
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(51) Satellite images show Russia building defenses to protect military positions northwest of Kyiv (cnn.com) (https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-19-22/h_155e2997f0e4db71afe85a410ce456ad)
This makes sense to me.
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(51) Satellite images show Russia building defenses to protect military positions northwest of Kyiv (cnn.com) (https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-19-22/h_155e2997f0e4db71afe85a410ce456ad)
This makes sense to me.
Well sure. They've been unable to advance, and dickface putin isn't about to give up. That's about their only option.
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I continue to be fascinated by the internet and social media aspects of this war. This is really the first time it's been so broadly accessible, and so used, by the parties engaged in the conflict.
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1509739238174208012?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1509739238174208012%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1509739238174208012
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I'd like to know how much access a typical Muscovite has to the internet. I appreciate that many would view our version of the news as fake news and accept their version, but it gets harder to see it their way I think.
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Ukrainian helicopters launched a counter-offensive into Russian territory and hit an oil depot in the Russian border town of Belgorod. Speculation that this is the first attack on Russian or Soviet soil since WW2.
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1509763703901761556?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1509768294533935119%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fralee85%2Fstatus%2F1509768294533935119%3Fs%3D2126t%3DzIOyvDrLWw7tV3LfvIlnlA
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Ukraine is denying any knowledge of the above. Maybe the Russians were afraid the oil would fall into Ukrainian hands?
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Ukraine is denying any knowledge of the above. Maybe the Russians were afraid the oil would fall into Ukrainian hands?
Could be?
It's not the typical MO for a Russian false flag, those are usually something heinous like blowing up a school or hospital and then blaming it on the enemy. Of course at this point, the Russians are verified to have already blown up hundreds of hospitals and schools, so that type of false flag can't really work for them.
Early speculation was that Russians themselves just somehow bungled something and blew themselves up, we've seen plenty of evidence of that happening as well over the past month. But several video clips now show helicopters clearly firing rockets at the facility.
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I doubt there was any chance that fuel would get confiscated by Ukranians. There is some chance it was sabotage, even by Russians, or simple inadvertent error. I don't know if the video showing helicopters firing at something means they were firing at this target, maybe.
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Multiple angles of the same strike. But it is curious that the Russians have willingly allowed the video to get out. Perhaps they intend to use it as a reason to blame Ukraine and defer peace negotiations. But that seems unnecessary, since their peace negotiations have all been an obvious sham this entire time, anyway.
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I continue to be fascinated by the internet and social media aspects of this war. This is really the first time it's been so broadly accessible, and so used, by the parties engaged in the conflict.
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1509739238174208012?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1509739238174208012%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1509739238174208012
4 million rubel is what? 50 cents?
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I'm sure we've all heard the rumors of infighting between VP Harris and the White House. No idea if it's true or not. I just hope Harris is being super thoroughly briefed daily or more frequently because Biden looks old and she could be President at any time. She might have to deal with Putin escalating the conflict in Ukraine.
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I have a notion neither she nor Biden are any more than a show piece, real decisions are made by others.
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Russian Soldiers In Chernobyl Fall Sick With Radiation Poisoning, Reports Claim | IFLScience (https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/russian-soldiers-in-chernobyl-fall-sick-with-radiation-poisoning-reports-claim/?fbclid=IwAR2pYNT7RBE7S3lvWfGQuuSlXz8BCZTzl0f3Zbp798YHu-rIg9gWpft4tnM)
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Russian Soldiers In Chernobyl Fall Sick With Radiation Poisoning, Reports Claim | IFLScience (https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/russian-soldiers-in-chernobyl-fall-sick-with-radiation-poisoning-reports-claim/?fbclid=IwAR2pYNT7RBE7S3lvWfGQuuSlXz8BCZTzl0f3Zbp798YHu-rIg9gWpft4tnM)
This one is being disputed as potential Ukrainian propaganda, but it wouldn't surprise me. Earlier reports from weeks ago, when Russia first seized Chernobyl, indicated that the troops who took it knew nothing about the facility or its past.
Which makes sense-- they're almost all very young, and there's no reason to think their Russian state media controlled lives, and state controlled educations, would have ever taught them anything about a disaster that occurred there over thirty years ago. The day they showed up there to invade, is probably the first time they'd ever heard the name of the place.
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A human needs a pretty serious dose of radiation to exhibit symptoms within a few weeks that are debilitating.
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A human needs a pretty serious dose of radiation to exhibit symptoms within a few weeks that are debilitating.
Yup. If the rumor is true, that they were digging trenches in the radiation-dust-laden Red Forest, with zero PPE, then I suppose it could manifest quickly.
My first job out of college was testing Ion Implanters for semiconductor manufacturing, they're basically a small particle accelerator. They produce fairly large amounts of radiation and the entire ion source and beamline are heavily lead shielded as a result. Still, small leaks were possible and I had to wear a radiation monitoring badge every single day I worked there. They were tested regularly and if your badge exceeded the limit you were pulled out of the clean room and sent to the doctor. Never happened to me or anyone I knew, though.
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I'd like to know how much access a typical Muscovite has to the internet. I appreciate that many would view our version of the news as fake news and accept their version, but it gets harder to see it their way I think.
our news is mostly propaganda, their news is mostly propaganda. often times truth is somewhere in the middle. big difference is we have a free and open society. or are suppose to. our government can't shut down newspapers or tv networks just because. oh or censor the internet- our private for profit corporations do that last part for them though.
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4 million rubel is what? 50 cents?
damn that's a great idea, 50 Cent should change his rap name to 4 Million Ruble.
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I think we are able to assemble a pretty accurate portrayal of reality with our various news sources.
Most of our news is basic facts, as I have noted before.
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I have a notion neither she nor Biden are any more than a show piece, real decisions are made by others.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/239/110/8a8.gif)
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$44,000 fine. Yeah, Wiki is gonna care about that...
1 Russian Ruble =
0.011 US Dollar
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I think we are able to assemble a pretty accurate portrayal of reality with our various news sources.
Most of our news is basic facts, as I have noted before.
you are so propagandized you don't even realize it. most Americans are though. it's sad. Chomsky was right on the money when he said any despot dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media.
Basic facts huh. Basic facts like Donald Trump being a Russian agent- an evidence free based conspiracy theory based off a phony dossier by a James Bond wannabe reject- which launched YEARS of investigations and wasted millions and millions of dollars of US tax payer dollars. Oh yeah, what about the basic facts that Hunter Biden's laptop was a Russian disinformation plot. Basic facts. Huh. :043:
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I'm sure we've all heard the rumors of infighting between VP Harris and the White House. No idea if it's true or not. I just hope Harris is being super thoroughly briefed daily or more frequently because Biden looks old and she could be President at any time. She might have to deal with Putin escalating the conflict in Ukraine.
he's an 80 year old guy losing his mind and clearly suffers from early onset dementia. and he gets worse by the day. and she's a vacuous, shallow, phony, fake, moron without a single original thought in her head. she is literally one of the fakest and also dumbest people I've ever seen in my entire life. we'd be screwed if Biden had to step down and she took over.
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Please discuss this elsewhere.
I promise you, we all know how each of you would feel about the current president or vice president handling potential escalations with Russia. Beyond that, this discussion belongs somewhere else.
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The amount of radiation your body gets is measured in an international unit called a sievert (Sv). Symptoms of radiation sickness show up when you're exposed to levels of more than 500 millisieverts (mSv), or half a sievert. More than 4 to 5 Sv is likely to be fatal. The workers who got radiation sickness at Chernobyl received doses that measured 700 mSv to 13 Sv.
Natural radiation is everywhere -- in the air, the water, and materials like brick or granite. You typically get only about 3 mSv -- three one-thousandths of a sievert -- of radiation from these natural sources in a year.
Man-made sources of radiation from things like X-rays add about another 3 mSv. A CT (computerized tomography) scan, which involves several X-rays taken from different angles, delivers about 10 mSv. People who work in the nuclear industry aren't allowed to be exposed to more than 50 mSv a year.
Radiation Sickness: Facts, Symptoms, Treatment (webmd.com) (https://www.webmd.com/cancer/radiation-sickness-facts#:~:text=Symptoms of radiation sickness show,is likely to be fatal.)
Unprotected Russian soldiers disturbed radioactive dust in Chernobyl's 'Red Forest', workers say | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/unprotected-russian-soldiers-disturbed-radioactive-dust-chernobyls-red-forest-2022-03-28/)
The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said on Feb. 25 that radiation levels at the Chernobyl site reached 9.46 microsieverts per hour but remained "within an operating range" recorded in the exclusion zone from the moment of its creation and posed no threat to the general population.
If the radiation levels there are about 10 microSvs per hour, it would take a while to get to 500 milliSv. Breathing in dust would be bad of course but more along the lines of some chronic disease much later than something happening in a few days.
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Yeah it didn't sound all that believable to me, when I heard it. But I'm no expert nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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A possibility is some soldiers got sick, normally, and because of their location some folks feared it was radiation when it was maybe bad water.
Now, give it 20 years and we could see some problems.
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I'm not much into witchcraft or satanic rituals, but I'd probably be doing that too.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttu5fn/russian_orthodox_church_claims_ukrainians_are/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=6c58deb5ea494b9cbca294c6a246c1f2&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=ttu5fn
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I'm not much into witchcraft or satanic rituals, but I'd probably be doing that too.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttu5fn/russian_orthodox_church_claims_ukrainians_are/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=6c58deb5ea494b9cbca294c6a246c1f2&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=ttu5fn
Lions and Tigers and Bears oh my
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As ruble rebounds, some question impact of sanctions against Russia | PBS NewsHour (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/as-ruble-rebounds-some-question-impact-of-sanctions-against-russia)
Fascinating how the ruble has recovered in foreign exchange rates.
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Ukraine regains full control of Kyiv region for first time since Russian invasion: official | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/3257426-ukraine-regains-full-control-of-kyiv-region-for-first-time-since-russian-invasion/)
The Russians may be pulling back to defensive positions as opposed to being driven back by Ukranian forces. Then they could of course shift better trained troops southeast to Mariupol area.
I get a feeling that in a year, we'll have near status quo in this situation, still conflict, not so much in the news because people get bored, and little real movement on the ground.
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Russian media is giving their viewers Orwellian coverage of the Ukraine war - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/03/media/russia-media-ukraine-cmd-intl/index.html)
I presume this reportage is reasonably accurate, I find it interesting.
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Russian media is giving their viewers Orwellian coverage of the Ukraine war - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/03/media/russia-media-ukraine-cmd-intl/index.html)
I presume this reportage is reasonably accurate, I find it interesting.
I find that really funny coming from CNN
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Maybe, but I can see how Russians are getting fed news that is by our way of thinking untrue and misleading so they view protesters as traitors to their brave soldiers fighting Nazis.
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I get a feeling that in a year, we'll have near status quo in this situation, still conflict, not so much in the news because people get bored, and little real movement on the ground.
Janes Analysis: Ukraine Conflict
(https://www.janes.com/defence-news/defence/latest/ukraine-crisis)The map ain't changing much any more, and probably won't.
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Janes Analysis: Ukraine Conflict
(https://www.janes.com/defence-news/defence/latest/ukraine-crisis)The map ain't changing much any more, and probably won't.
which IMHO is good for Ukraine
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I think any probable future is really bad for Ukraine, but this may be least bad among them.
Of course, it is possible, though not probable, that Putin leaves office and his successor calls a halt and withdraws for real.
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I wonder how much planting is going to happen in Ukraine this season. I figure the western parts can get planted if they have fuel.
It's really a surprise a country with such natural resources could be so poor. Well, not really.
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I wonder how much planting is going to happen in Ukraine this season. I figure the western parts can get planted if they have fuel.
It's really a surprise a country with such natural resources could be so poor. Well, not really.
Rising food prices are unfortunately a precursor to more worrisome food shortages marching our way.
For first world citizens it’s likely a matter of scaling back food purchases and cutting deeper in already strained household budgets.
But for 4 specific areas of the less developed world where famines are continually staved off year after year, and much of what little grain they get comes from Ukraine and Russian surpluses, chances are the bottom could fall out and millions will die of starvation: Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, and South Sudan + Northern Ethiopia.
Not to sound to callous, but with so much of the world’s population living on such thin margins WHILE continuing to increase, it’s only a matter of time before mass starvation was due to set in, especially in hotter, arid areas where population increase was never suited for it’s harsh environment. And I think we’re partly seeing a consequence of the world hitting its limits of population sustainability as it’s happening in the most unstable and impoverished regions.
https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1510692009484636160
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Rising food prices are unfortunately a precursor to more worrisome food shortages marching our way.
For first world citizens it’s likely a matter of scaling back food purchases and cutting deeper in already strained household budgets.
But for 4 specific areas of the less developed world where famines are continually staved off year after year, and much of what little grain they get comes from Ukraine and Russian surpluses, chances are the bottom could fall out and millions will die of starvation: Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, and South Sudan + Northern Ethiopia.
Not to sound to callous, but with so much of the world’s population living on such thin margins WHILE continuing to increase, it’s only a matter of time before mass starvation was due to set in, especially in hotter, arid areas where population increase was never suited for it’s harsh environment. And I think we’re partly seeing a consequence of the world hitting its limits of population sustainability as it’s happening in the most unstable and impoverished regions.
https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1510692009484636160
Populations aren't increasing in most of the developed Western world. Fertility rates are declining and holding emigration steady, so are populations.
These are problems facing parts of Asia and Africa, but it's not a world problem and, not to sound callous, should not be addressed as one.
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talking about having the money to buy food
might have to forgo that new iphone and 5G data plan
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Antonov An-225, the worlds largest cargo airplane, was destroyed in February.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/04/antonov-an-225-wreckage-worlds-largest-plane-destroyed-in-ukraine.html
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Mercenaries from dickface putin's private army, the Wagner group, have been confirmed in Donetsk.
Their founder and leader, Dmitry Utkin, is a certified lover of the Third Reich, sporting nazi tattoos on his body.
So now it appears that dickface putin's plan to de-nazify Ukraine, relies on using actual neo nazis to do the killing for him.
Fight fire with fire, I suppose.
https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1510885041290813442?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1510885041290813442%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fchristogrozev%2Fstatus%2F1510885041290813442
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https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1510736704327790597?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1510736704327790597%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FDAlperovitch%2Fstatus%2F1510736704327790597%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1510736704327790597257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es1_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16
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Germany, EU struggle in turning off Russian gas as Baltics make dramatic move (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/3258744-baltics-cut-off-russian-gas-but-germany-eu-face-struggle/)
Germany is addicted. Putin paid their green parties to cause this.
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Yup his plan is working well so far.
It's almost as if he knew he was going to commit genocide all along, and knew Europe would take offense to that, so he deliberately planned ways to keep them on the bench with their hands tied behind their backs.
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https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1510736704327790597?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1510736704327790597%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FDAlperovitch%2Fstatus%2F1510736704327790597%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1510736704327790597257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es1_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16
If they're really smart, they'll replace that with a real one once the Ukrainians realize it's fake.
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I surmise those are Ukranian soldiers standing near it.
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https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1511238802701959171?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1511238802701959171%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FIAPonomarenko%2Fstatus%2F1511238802701959171
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I find that really funny coming from CNN
(https://learnenglishwithdemi.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/88aa5a9708fe10faa3529b8420fc07aa.jpg)
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Germany, EU struggle in turning off Russian gas as Baltics make dramatic move (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/3258744-baltics-cut-off-russian-gas-but-germany-eu-face-struggle/)
Germany is addicted. Putin paid their green parties to cause this.
LOL. I've noticed you're very into conspiracy theories. First Biden not "really running things" and now this. Greta Thunberg a Putin plant too, huh?
Europe, and especially Western Europe, just flat out does not have oil and gas fields/resources. They will always be at a disadvantage when it comes to energy, and fossil fuels will always be a problem for them. And Germany is very much a left-wing, progressive country- they didn't need help from anyone for their push to "go green". The "Energiewende" had massive support from the German population.
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I think quite a few folks think Biden is not fully in charge and making decisions. It's my opinion.
As for Putin funding Green parties, that strikes me as public record, not some conspiracy notion.
Norway is in western Europe, no? And there actually are NG resources in Germany untapped because they have restricted fracking. They have about a ten year supply including "tight" NG of known supplies in the ground at current usage rates. They might have more undiscovered reserves because nobody bothers to look very hard.
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I think quite a few folks think Biden is not fully in charge and making decisions. It's my opinion.
As for Putin funding Green parties, that strikes me as public record, not some conspiracy notion.
Norway is in western Europe, no? And there actually are NG resources in Germany untapped because they have restricted fracking. They have about a ten year supply including "tight" NG of known supplies in the ground at current usage rates. They might have more undiscovered reserves because nobody bothers to look very hard.
It's conspiracy theory to think Biden is not really in charge. He is. The policies of the US government both domestic and foreign are basically run of the mill and go hand in hand with what Biden has been about for his entire career.
Putin funding Green parties is a far cry from him making Germany addicted to his gas or swinging any kind of energy policy in Germany. Just look at the polling. Climate change is one of the very top issues for Germans. Has been for a long time. Germany is in many ways a progressive, left-wing country. The idea that they are addicted to Russian gas because Putin may have donated to some green parties is absurd.
Norway has restricted fracking, yes. And why? Because of earth quakes. Not because of Russia. It costs $$$$$$$ to explore and look for oil and gas fields. Energy companies aren't going to spend that money for shits and gigs. Fact of the matter is MOST of these Western European countries are democracies that are far more left/progressive and have even more environmental restrictions than we have here in the US. It's just not gonna happen. And that's not Russias fault. Those populations are lefty dopes.
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In MY OPINION, Biden is not really in charge and making decisions. The evidence for that opinion is pretty obvious. It could be incorrect of course, and perhaps Biden is more, well, lucid than he appears to me.
Russia 'secretly working with environmentalists to oppose fracking' | Environment | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/19/russia-secretly-working-with-environmentalists-to-oppose-fracking)
One can find articles all over about Putin funding environmentalists in Europe. It makes plenty of sense for him to have done that for obvious reasons. And obviously Russian gas causes as much climate change as German or Norwegian or American gas.
Norway doesn't need fracking at this point. And their oil producing company is government owned.
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Please discuss the current president elsewhere. Whether or not he's a figurehead who is not actually executing his own decisions and plans, really has nothing to do with Ukraine.
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Please discuss the current president elsewhere. Whether or not he's a figurehead who is not actually executing his own decisions and plans, really has nothing to do with Ukraine.
Ukraine has effectively been a US colony since about 2014, so it actually kinda does.
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Maybe, but I can see how Russians are getting fed news that is by our way of thinking untrue and misleading so they view protesters as traitors to their brave soldiers fighting Nazis.
they are definitely getting propagandized up the ass over there, 100%, and no doubt about it. It's no different than America circa 2001 with Afghanistan or 2003 with Iraq- when the US population was lied to, manipulated, and propagandized to believe "they hate us for our FrEeDumMM...derrrrrp!" and that we "GoTs Ta FiGhT dEm OvEr DeR sO wE dOnT gOtS tA fIgHt 'Em HeReEee...DeRp" or that they had "wEpUnS oF MaSs DeStruackShiooNNNN....derrP".
War is unpopular with populations. But most especially illegal invasion, aggressive, unnecessary wars. Governments have to propagandize people to sell the war- and make anyone who opposes the war the enemy of the state- otherwise people would pushback and revolt. Dixie Chicks got "canceled" before that was ever really a thing just for speaking out against the Iraq war. Anyone who mildly criticized the war was called a traitor for "NoT SuPPAAARTin da TROOOOOOPS....TRAITORRRR!". For christ sake there was massive push by the media and many restaurants changed the name of french fries to freedom fries on their menus because the French wouldn't go along with that illegal war.
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Mercenaries from dickface putin's private army, the Wagner group, have been confirmed in Donetsk.
Their founder and leader, Dmitry Utkin, is a certified lover of the Third Reich, sporting nazi tattoos on his body.
So now it appears that dickface putin's plan to de-nazify Ukraine, relies on using actual neo nazis to do the killing for him.
Fight fire with fire, I suppose.
https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1510885041290813442?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1510885041290813442%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fchristogrozev%2Fstatus%2F1510885041290813442
nazis fighting nazis. jesus christ.
turns out psychotic people are really good at fighting....
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this is nuts to me...
https://twitter.com/OVargas52/status/1511330841623863300?s=20&t=opH6zEKwK6gpbtJ7aq5QxA
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MSNBC host Ali Velshi continues to push for WWIII on his show. Flat out calls for NATO needs to get directly involved in the war and fight Russia- live on his MSNBC tv show and on his twitter feed as well.
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Ukraine has effectively been a US colony since about 2014, so it actually kinda does.
lulzno
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nazis fighting nazis. jesus christ.
Rock and Roller Cola Wars, I can't take it anymore...?
MSNBC host Ali Velshi continues to push for WWIII on his show. Flat out calls for NATO needs to get directly involved in the war and fight Russia- live on his MSNBC tv show and on his twitter feed as well.
I don't know who Ali Velshi is, but Lots of stupid people are calling for this. Stupid people say stupid stuff all the time, it doesn't mean it's going to happen or anyone should listen to them.
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https://twitter.com/ReutersWorld/status/1511456218161815554?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1511456218161815554%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FReutersWorld%2Fstatus%2F1511456218161815554%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw
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lulzno
yeah, they kinda are. when you can overthrow a government and literally install a hand-picked puppet government- and then you can basically get them to do whatever you want by dangling money, loan guarantees (fire that federal prosecutor or you aren't getting that $1 billion loan guarantee!), military training, and weapons systems over their heads- they're pretty much going to do whatever you tell them. They've been a sock puppet almost completely dependent upon the United States since 2014. Call them a client state if you'd like instead.
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https://twitter.com/ReutersWorld/status/1511456218161815554?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1511456218161815554%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FReutersWorld%2Fstatus%2F1511456218161815554%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw
I don't think India has ever been "soft" on Russia. They just refused to stop buying Russia's oil and got taken to task for that in US/Western media. Which is kinda weird- as most of Europe hasn't stopped buying Russian oil either.
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yeah, they kinda are. when you can overthrow a government and literally install a hand-picked puppet government- and then you can basically get them to do whatever you want by dangling money, loan guarantees (fire that federal prosecutor or you aren't getting that $1 billion loan guarantee!), military training, and weapons systems over their heads- they're pretty much going to do whatever you tell them. They've been a sock puppet almost completely dependent upon the United States since 2014. Call them a client state if you'd like instead.
No. Just stop it.
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I don't think India has ever been "soft" on Russia. They just refused to stop buying Russia's oil and got taken to task for that in US/Western media. Which is kinda weird- as most of Europe hasn't stopped buying Russian oil either.
They didn't come out with any statements at all. I won't call that soft, either. I'd call that tacit approval.
In clear cases of obvious genocide, not saying anything at all, is the same as approval.
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They didn't come out with any statements at all. I won't call that soft, either. I'd call that tacit approval.
In clear cases of obvious genocide, not saying anything at all, is the same as approval.
I don't know. I feel like the condemnation stuff doesn't really accomplish much and then blasting India for not condemning accomplishes even less. The only way India could've used any leverage they had to really put pressure on Russia was by not buying Russian oil. They didn't do that- but neither did anyone else really, aside from the US and then the UK announcing they are still going to buy Russian oil- but will be "phasing out" Russian oil by the end of December.
Genocide is a loaded word that implies ethnic cleansing- like Hitler killing 6+ million Jews and then like 1+ million Romani. Putin's war is obviously awful, atrocious, and no doubt a crime- but I don't know if it goes that far. And he's also been killing many Ukrainians who are ethnic russian. He leveled Mariupol and turned it into rubble- and it was a city that was nearly half ethnic russian.
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gen·o·cide
/ˈjenəˌsīd/
(https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS774US774&sxsrf=APq-WBvJo4tvnbw62zFwlHNzisQJ9qsVOA:1649208010367&q=how+to+pronounce+genocide&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMIfcRoxS3w8sc9YSnDSWtOXmPU5uINKMrPK81LzkwsyczPExLhYglJLcoV4pHi4uJIT83LT85MSbViUWJKzeNZxCqZkV-uUJKvUADUkw_UlKoAUwIAaKK4yVsAAAA&pron_lang=en&pron_country=us&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiCj_nMov72AhWRomoFHVQhD7EQ3eEDegQICRAK)Learn to pronounce
(https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS774US774&sxsrf=APq-WBvJo4tvnbw62zFwlHNzisQJ9qsVOA:1649208010367&q=how+to+pronounce+genocide&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMIfcRoxS3w8sc9YSnDSWtOXmPU5uINKMrPK81LzkwsyczPExLhYglJLcoV4pHi4uJIT83LT85MSbViUWJKzeNZxCqZkV-uUJKvUADUkw_UlKoAUwIAaKK4yVsAAAA&pron_lang=en&pron_country=us&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiCj_nMov72AhWRomoFHVQhD7EQ3eEDegQICRAK)
noun
- the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group
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In clear cases of obvious genocide, not saying anything at all, is the same as approval.
well, not literally ;)
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I don't know. I feel like the condemnation stuff doesn't really accomplish much and then blasting India for not condemning accomplishes even less. The only way India could've used any leverage they had to really put pressure on Russia was by not buying Russian oil. They didn't do that- but neither did anyone else really, aside from the US and then the UK announcing they are still going to buy Russian oil- but will be "phasing out" Russian oil by the end of December.
Genocide is a loaded word that implies ethnic cleansing- like Hitler killing 6+ million Jews and then like 1+ million Romani. Putin's war is obviously awful, atrocious, and no doubt a crime- but I don't know if it goes that far. And he's also been killing many Ukrainians who are ethnic russian. He leveled Mariupol and turned it into rubble- and it was a city that was nearly half ethnic russian.
I don't see anyone blasting India. I see one outlet saying they are "hardening their stance" and I see me saying their silence was a sign of tacit approval-- which, of course, it is. But I'm certainly glad they're now making public statements to the contrary. I believe that's important.
And I already addressed the genocide terminology. You don't have to succeed in genocide to be attempting genocide, and that's exactly what is happening. By definition, of course.
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well, not literally ;)
Russia is literally attempting genocide. You know, by definition. I find definitions to be important, rather than just talking about our feelings about things that are happening, it helps clarify things when opinions and personal biases can lead us astray.
India was literally non-committal, not stating a position publicly. This is of course a fact. A literal embodiment of truth.
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US top level planners- this time General Mark Milley- the highest ranking officer in the entire US military....saying this war will last years.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPnXklmVsAcr4VN?format=jpg&name=large)
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US top level planners- this time General Mark Milley- the highest ranking officer in the entire US military....saying this war will last years.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPnXklmVsAcr4VN?format=jpg&name=large)
I just saw this on the news as well. At this point it's not surprising but is certainly disheartening.
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https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1511342451591680012?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1511342451591680012%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fshashj%2Fstatus%2F1511342451591680012
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I just saw this on the news as well. At this point it's not surprising but is certainly disheartening.
disheartening is not the right word. if this thing lasts years Ukraine will look like Syria or Yemen or Iraq or Afghanistan. Some parts of the country already do. I can't imagine this going on for 3-4-5 more years. It's sickening.
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disheartening is not the right word. if this thing lasts years Ukraine will look like Syria or Yemen or Iraq or Afghanistan. Some parts of the country already do. I can't imagine this going on for 3-4-5 more years. It's sickening.
For sure. I was slow-playing it more than a little bit. I find it sickening as well, and can't imagine what those people are suffering through right now. And we only know a small fraction of what's actually occurred.
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https://twitter.com/incontextmedia/status/1511354553983193097?s=20&t=nQmBTkCpa3Da7sFf7Xo-Kg
while I absolutely do know Putin is a war criminal and agree with his sentiment- I don't think it's wise for the President of the United States to call Putin such or to continue to say he thinks Putin should be tried for war crimes. For one I don't think it will help ease tensions or help in anyway to bring about an end to this war.
And second I find it pretty wild Biden keeps pushing for this, considering war crimes are tried by the ICC- an entity that the US does not nor has ever recognized as a legitimate court with any kind of authority to prosecute anyone- an entity which US imposes economic sanctions on it's prosecutors- and lastly an entity in which the current President voted YES as a senator on legislation nicknamed the "Hague Invasion Act" - which was signed into law- which states that the US will invade the Netherlands and use military force to attack the Hague (ICC) to free any Americans held there. The law also bans federal, state and local governments and agencies from assisting the ICC in any way. The law also strictly prohibits the extradition of any person from the US to the ICC.
The law also bans US military aid to countries that are party to the ICC. Of course exemptions were carved in to allow for aid to NATO members and Taiwan and countries that have agreed not to hand over US nationals to the ICC. Pretty crazy sh*t.
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Not too surprised by what the Russians are doing in Ukraine given Putin and the Russian army's track record. Civilian massacres and chemical weapon attacks in Chechnya and Syria, poisonings and murder of political opponents and defectors at home and abroad, and the warnings of kill lists for occupied Ukraine. The UN can not do anything so its up to the West. The West should stop buying Russian energy immediately to cut off that income to Russia. All the other sanctions to date are pretty piddly in comparison. And stop doing business with all Russian banks. It would be a big hit to European economies but they should have seen this coming so I don't feel too bad for them. Putin has been doing things like this for over 20 years.
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The West, Germany in particular, cannot stop buying Russian energy right now, they can't. They are addicted.
And China and India would step in and take up the slack except for NG which is tougher to transport.
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I don't characterize Germany as "addicted" to Russian oil and gas. But they're certainly locked in, after decades of unwise energy policy.
And it's true that China and India can step in to cover the gaps in Russian sales, but it'll be at deep discounts to their current prices and to the world market. Even though only a handful of countries have actually sanctioned and banned the import of Russian oil and gas, Russia continues to struggle to find buyers for their products in the open marketplace. Payment issues from global sanctions are part of it, and beyond that some global buyers are simply choosing not to, for their own reasons, even if their country allows it.
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chemical weapon attacks in Chechnya and Syria,
I can't speak to Chechnya, because I'm not familiar with that topic enough- and I am certainly not defending Russia or Putin- but in regards to Syria- that was never accused of Russia, it was accused of Bashar al-Assad - and the evidence for some of those accusations fell apart at the seams under closer scrutiny. OPCW whistleblowers, WikiLeaks, and investigative reporters on the ground in Syria like Sy Hersh and Aaron Mate put some of those accusations into serious doubt. And regardless, that had nothing to do with Russia or Putin. Both the Syrian government and ISIL "rebels" had chemical weapon stocks- and both sides used them.
IF you were asking me to pick a side in the Syrian war- Russia was on the right side. US was on the wrong side. Period. Bashar al-Assad might be a lot of things- but he's infinitely better than a bunch of theocratic psychopaths intent on a world caliphate and to bring the 21st century back to the 9th century. And all that ever happens when US removes a guy like Assad (see Iraq, Libya) is the country gets thrown into total f**king chaos and the people of the state wind up worse than they were before US got involved.
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The West, Germany in particular, cannot stop buying Russian energy right now, they can't. They are addicted.
And China and India would step in and take up the slack except for NG which is tougher to transport.
it's not that they are addicted to Russian oil or gas. That's a silly argument/statement. Germany needs to buy oil and natural gas from somewhere...because: they don't produce anywhere near enough to meet their needs. Russia just happens to be one of the top 2-3 producers of ng and crude oil in the entire world. And they also happen to produce way more than they could possibly ever use....which is why they are also top 2-3 exporters of both natural resources.
Germany can't just pull natural gas and oil out of their ass. Where are they suppose to buy it from?
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I don't characterize Germany as "addicted" to Russian oil and gas. But they're certainly locked in, after decades of unwise energy policy.
And it's true that China and India can step in to cover the gaps in Russian sales, but it'll be at deep discounts to their current prices and to the world market. Even though only a handful of countries have actually sanctioned and banned the import of Russian oil and gas, Russia continues to struggle to find buyers for their products in the open marketplace. Payment issues from global sanctions are part of it, and beyond that some global buyers are simply choosing not to, for their own reasons, even if their country allows it.
I think the payment issues have probably been the biggest road blocks to buying russian oil and gas- which is why Russia has allowed EU buyers to continue paying in foreign currencies but only after they open special trade accounts at Russia's Gazprombank- which then converts those payments into rubles.
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Addicted, locked in, dependent on, basically the same thing.
The German economy would wilt fast if they stopped.
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Addicted, locked in, dependent on, basically the same thing.
The German economy would wilt fast if they stopped.
what economy wouldn't wilt fast if they didn't have access to vital natural resources? you can't run an economy or society for that matter without fossil fuels. it's impossible.
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You can run an economy on a reliable supply of fossil fuels, which Germany failed to develop. They allowed themselves to become highly dependent on Russia despite many warnings. Imagine Nord Stream II had been made operational before all this happened.
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You can run an economy on a reliable supply of fossil fuels, which Germany failed to develop. They allowed themselves to become highly dependent on Russia despite many warnings. Imagine Nord Stream II had been made operational before all this happened.
how can you develop what you don't have? it's not like there are loads of oil and natural gas fields all over Germany. There aren't.
Europe, and especially Western Europe just does not have rich oil or natural gas resources. Nothing anyone can do about that.
Germany really screwed itself by shutting all it's nuclear plants down. Instead of going nuclear- they killed nuclear. Their neighbor France gets over 75% of it's energy needs from nuclear power. Germany gets about 13%.
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https://twitter.com/YourAnonTV/status/1511656225687154688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1511656225687154688%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FYourAnonTV%2Fstatus%2F1511656225687154688%3Fs%3D2026t%3DcBAZhe3S4r1vS8FdxJLqgQ
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Build LNG terminals and get NG from Norway and US.
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And develop domestic sources of course
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https://twitter.com/YourAnonTV/status/1511656225687154688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1511656225687154688%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FYourAnonTV%2Fstatus%2F1511656225687154688%3Fs%3D2026t%3DcBAZhe3S4r1vS8FdxJLqgQ
big balls
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And develop domestic sources of course
and need to build a few more Power plants running on LNG
and add nuclear plants
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And develop domestic sources of course
such as the USA has done, but are restricted by the government today?
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you know you live in a crazy world when you see Sean Penn go on Fox News and get along great with Sean Hannity and opine that the US should threaten Russia with nuclear strikes.
I'm old enough to remember when Sean Penn hated Sean Hannity and Fox News. Actor by day, CIA government asset by night? Funny conspiracy, but it just seems odd to me how Sean Penn butts his nose into everything. Dude got El Chapo caught. Narc.
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Dude doesn't appear to be aging well
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Build LNG terminals and get NG from Norway and US.
sounds great, would certainly be great for US energy, but that's going to cost Germany a sh*t load of money- billions in infrastructure- and the cost of US LNG is 40 to 50% higher than the cost of Russian natural gas.
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And develop domestic sources of course
do they have the sources to develop?
what they really need to do is kick their nuclear energy programs into high gear. dump untold billions into it- get 70+% of your energy from it like France. Then you won't be "addicted" to anyones oil or gas.
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Even given the proper amount of money to make it happen today, the infrastructure build-out to support that amount of LNG transport from the US to Germany is almost a decade out.
But it's not like people haven't been warning Germany for OVER a decade that this is the path they were headed down. There's nothing new here, no surprises at all.
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(https://i.imgur.com/vxk8A2Z.png)
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Germany does have some recoverable NG.
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Dude doesn't appear to be aging well
Have you seen Mr. Hand?
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Germany does have some recoverable NG.
Fracking?
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(https://i.imgur.com/6ofomrA.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/6ofomrA.png)
gotta love it
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This is interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBYdUtqNni4
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https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1512153144406552580?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1512153144406552580%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FDefenceU%2Fstatus%2F1512153144406552580
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https://twitter.com/OTolmachev/status/1512131101506031616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1512133375720579092%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fscottdetrow%2Fstatus%2F1512133375720579092%3Ft%3DXIC5pPQS-dtDsltGQ79EZQ26s%3D19
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Tomorrow, April 8, Pink Floyd will release a new song in support of the people of Ukraine titled, “Hey Hey Rise Up.” The single serves as the group’s first new original music they’ve recorded together since 1994’s The Division Bell.“Hey Hey Rise Up” features David Gilmour and Nick Mason joined by longtime Pink Floyd bass player Guy Pratt, Nitin Sawhney on keyboards and a vocal performance by Andriy Khlyvnyuk of Ukrainian band Boombox. Khlyvnyuk’s vocals are sampled from an Instagram post he shared from Kyiv’s Sofiyskaya Square on Feb. 27. In the video, Khlyvnyuk stoically sings “The Red Viburnum In The Meadow” a cappella in uniform. His vocals are beautiful on their own but quickly become harrowing once one realizes the junction where he stands would usually be loud with traffic and passersby.
https://jambands.com/news/2022/04/07/pink-floyd-to-release-new-song-in-benefit-of-the-people-of-ukraine/?utm_source=Relix+Daily&utm_campaign=5aecfaed91-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2022_04_07_04_54&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_486e6e4b54-5aecfaed91-29720859&mc_cid=5aecfaed91&mc_eid=295f5e443c (https://jambands.com/news/2022/04/07/pink-floyd-to-release-new-song-in-benefit-of-the-people-of-ukraine/?utm_source=Relix+Daily&utm_campaign=5aecfaed91-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2022_04_07_04_54&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_486e6e4b54-5aecfaed91-29720859&mc_cid=5aecfaed91&mc_eid=295f5e443c)
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(https://i.imgur.com/6ofomrA.png)
Those are verbs.
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(https://i.imgur.com/vxk8A2Z.png)
No way a "male" communist would ever assume the dominant role in a sexual relationship.
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do they have the sources to develop?
what they really need to do is kick their nuclear energy programs into high gear. dump untold billions into it- get 70+% of your energy from it like France. Then you won't be "addicted" to anyones oil or gas.
You have to add electric and hydrogen powered vehicles to your proposed mix, and to eliminate most combustion engines - then you have a solution to dependence on autocratic and monarchy oil.
LNG and natural gas in the U.S. is abundant, but why it is taking so much time to develop as an export to Europe, I don't understand, other than Europe's geographic nearness and dependence on autocratic LNG and oil. USA has a good export market to Asia of LNG. One of the gulf states exports lots of LNG too. Unfortunately Europe has been cozying up to Russia for its pipeline ng, and for its export LNG for years, and developed a dependency.
European imports of fossil fuels have proven now to be a security risk to all of Europe. U.S. has so much LNG available for export but not the boat capacity. Defense Production Act for LNG boats?
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You need specific LNG terminals also
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Germany has zero import terminals for LNG. The rest of Western Europe only have a handful.
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Elon Musk can build them
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Let them eat gas.
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You have to add electric and hydrogen powered vehicles to your proposed mix, and to eliminate most combustion engines - then you have a solution to dependence on autocratic and monarchy oil.
LNG and natural gas in the U.S. is abundant, but why it is taking so much time to develop as an export to Europe, I don't understand, other than Europe's geographic nearness and dependence on autocratic LNG and oil. USA has a good export market to Asia of LNG. One of the gulf states exports lots of LNG too. Unfortunately Europe has been cozying up to Russia for its pipeline ng, and for its export LNG for years, and developed a dependency.
European imports of fossil fuels have proven now to be a security risk to all of Europe. U.S. has so much LNG available for export but not the boat capacity. Defense Production Act for LNG boats?
well duh on the first part- and Germany and a lot of Western Europe- are making the push towards electric vehicles. Elon Musk just opened his first Tesla GigaFactory in Europe in Germany less than a month ago. Europe and Germany's largest auto-maker VW is gearing up to go all electric by 2035.
LNG is liquefied natural gas. It takes special infrastructure to be able to import it and actually convert it back to gas state to be able to use it. Infrastructure the Germans and most of Europe does not have. You're talking about probably countless billions to build the infrastructure- and then as utee said- even if they started building all the necessary infrastructure- it'd be about a decade out. Germany does not get LNG from Russia, they get natural gas via direct pipelines. No need for the costly infrastructure- and oh yeah not to mention infrastructure aside- it's a hell of a lot cheaper. US LNG is 40-50% more expensive than Russian natural gas. Ask someone to pay $150 for the same thing that they're paying $100 for right now. They'll probably not want to do that. And the cost is actually much greater when you take into account the billions of dollars in cost for building the import terminal infrastructure. Those import terminals cost like $1 billion a pop- or more.
I don't see how European energy policy is our problem. If the free loading Eurotrash want energy that's not from Russia- they can figure it out on their own. They can pay huge premiums for US LNG but they can pay for the damn terminals themselves and we shouldn't build any LNG transport boats until they give us deposits and contracts to buy US LNG.
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Elon Musk can build them
dude builds electric cars, solar panels/roofs, and storage batteries. he's not a fan of fossil fuels lol.
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Well I mean, it would quite obviously be in Germany's and most of Europe's best interest to eliminate their dependence on Russian oil and gas. Even at significantly increased costs, looking to the US to provide it, rather than Russia, is a much safer bet.
And while I agree it's not our responsibility, it is in our own best interests, because instability in the developed world in general, and Europe specifically, has direct negative externalities for the US.
I believe we should do everything we can to encourage them to go into business with us for LNG and oil. It would be profitable business for us, and it would increase security for them. That type of activity would of course require deposits and contractual assurances from the European states to producers and transporters on our side, but that's all quite do-able, just a matter of business.
But, if they don't choose to follow that path, we can't MAKE them engage in sound, secure energy policy. If they want to make short-sighted and stupid decisions to rely on Russia, there's nothing we can do to stop them.
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Well I mean, it would quite obviously be in Germany's and most of Europe's best interest to eliminate their dependence on Russian oil and gas. Even at significantly increased costs, looking to the US to provide it, rather than Russia, is a much safer bet.
And while I agree it's not our responsibility, it is in our own best interests, because instability in the developed world in general, and Europe specifically, has direct negative externalities for the US.
I believe we should do everything we can to encourage them to go into business with us for LNG and oil. It would be profitable business for us, and it would increase security for them. That type of activity would of course require deposits and contractual assurances from the European states to producers and transporters on our side, but that's all quite do-able, just a matter of business.
But, if they don't choose to follow that path, we can't MAKE them engage in sound, secure energy policy. If they want to make short-sighted and stupid decisions to rely on Russia, there's nothing we can do to stop them.
yeah pretty much agree with everything you said.
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dude builds electric cars, solar panels/roofs, and storage batteries. he's not a fan of fossil fuels lol.
"This bass features a 34" scale for easy playability, a sleek matte black finish, and powerful EMG pickups for deep low end tone, along with two solar cells that make this the first eco-friendly instrument on the market to reduce a player's footprint on the planet. And additionally, it also features an insanely powerful propane-fueled flamethrower if you also want to destroy a 100-foot radius of the planet as well. THIS BABY JUST SIMPLY RIPS!" shouted Musk over the blaring sound of Pantera's seminal hit "Cowboys From Hell" as he thrust devil fingers in the air and headbanged his way across the packed convention stage.
(https://bassmagazine.com/.image/t_share/MTYyOTU5MDQ4MTE3ODU1ODMy/elon-musk-flame-bass.jpg)
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dude builds electric cars, solar panels/roofs, and storage batteries. he's not a fan of fossil fuels lol.
Ya but the plants that make all of that are powered how?
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one of the most insane videos I think I've ever seen that no one in useless media will ever show...is from an interview in 2019 for Ukrainian news channel Apostrophe.ua- Oleksiy Arestovych- a top advisor in the cabinet of Ukrainian President Zelenskyy.
He says back in 2019 that the price Ukraine needs to pay to join NATO is "a big war with Russia” and that after defeating Russia, "Ukraine joining NATO will be the coolest thing". He predicts there's a 99.9% probability of a major war and says it'll be in 2021-2022- and he basically predicts everything of how Russia will fight the war down to a T. It's insane.
Idk why the f**k the US kept lying to Ukraine telling them they'd be in NATO for 14 years- knowing damn well they weren't going to let them in- in large part due to major issues in that country with corruption. Even Zelenskyy now says he's been asking and demanding of the US when Ukraine can join NATO- tell us if it's in one year, three years, five years- and he was told by the US- yeah, you guys aren't joining NATO- but we're not going to say that publicly.
This same guy predicts the war could be over by May. Let's hope he's as good at predicting the end of wars as he is the start of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjxs2XfDwKc
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Ya but the plants that make all of that are powered how?
Plants are powered by the sun + water.
:57:
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We have an LNG export terminal right here in my county. Iirc, they spent about 12 billion to build it. It started out as an import terminal, but thanks to Super Aggie George Mitchell fracking became a real thing and it was remade to liquify the gas and export it. My friend from high school works there.
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Idk why the f**k the US kept lying to Ukraine telling them they'd be in NATO for 14 years- knowing damn well they weren't going to let them in- in large part due to major issues in that country with corruption. Even Zelenskyy now says he's been asking and demanding of the US when Ukraine can join NATO- tell us if it's in one year, three years, five years- and he was told by the US- yeah, you guys aren't joining NATO- but we're not going to say that publicly.
What's far more relevant than any of that, is why shithead Russia led by dickface putin thinks it's okay to slaughter Ukraine and commit genocide.
If you really focused your brainpower there, you might find yourself onto something.
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This is a poster at the main railway station in Kyiv:
(https://i.imgur.com/4HpafLF.jpg)
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This is going to be an increasingly large problem for dickface putin's shithead Russia. Ain't no way a command economy works through something like this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tzz5vm/russian_shipyards_halt_production_of_ships_due_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
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https://twitter.com/biannagolodryga/status/1513180249340710916?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1513180249340710916%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmobile.twitter.com%2Fbiannagolodryga%2Fstatus%2F1513180249340710916
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Tough to know whose numbers to trust anymore but those prolly are accurate
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Ukraine accuses Russia of chemical weapons attack in Mariupol | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3264552-ukraine-accuses-russia-of-chemical-weapons-attack-in-mariupol/)
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Ukraine accuses Russia of chemical weapons attack in Mariupol | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3264552-ukraine-accuses-russia-of-chemical-weapons-attack-in-mariupol/)
It wouldn't surprise me, but I don't believe this is fully vetted yet. Some comments are the the effects are not "disastrous" so it's possible it was something more like tear gas, which doesn't really fall into the horrifying groups of chemical weapons out there.
But of course it's a war zone so accurate reports are hard to come by.
I really hope it's not true, for the Ukrainians that would be affected by it, but also for the rest of the world because it would be a red line to cross and would likely result in more direct action from the West.
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i've offered before-
the ruskies were/are SO far ahead of the rest of the world with chemical weapon development it's not even a race. where they fall behind in biological and nuclear/radiological, they lead by a WIDE margin in chemical.
a defecting russian colonel, late eighties early nineties, who headed up their chemical corps is the primary source of this information. he brought with him a lot of documentation.
the reason i offer this here, now is: the russians could be using chemical weapons, and it may not even be realized for some time. we can identify agents easily- some even by satellite, but almost all (even when they're cocktails) through the use of devices that have been fielded and refined for more than 40 years. Then, there are newer devices (20ish years old) that can literally fire a laser into a plume, from a considerable range, and determine the agent. These can even be mounted on helo's, and they are in many cases. Ion Mobility and Mass Spectrometry are the basis for the aging devices, where the newer ones (the lasers) use some sort of sampling of background and comparison algorithm to compare 'size' of molecule's adjacent to each other. it's pretty slick...
the reason 'it could be some time before we identify if they're using chem weapons" is because- they have shit we've never encountered and which was designed to escape identification especially initially.... their concept isn't like the days of WW1 when mustard gas was released and everyone knew it- their intent is to maim now and later to reduce the fighting effectiveness of resistance.
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Yeah that's some really scary stuff. I really do hope it hasn't come to that, but it wouldn't surprise me at all, if it had. dickface putin's aims are clear at this point.
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Residues of known chemical agents are pretty easy to detect. Of course, you can't know from that who dispensed the agent. The nerve agents developed in WW 2 are plenty deadly, Tabun, Sarin, among them. Hitler had a stockpile and never used it in the West.
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Residues of known chemical agents are pretty easy to detect. Of course, you can't know from that who dispensed the agent. The nerve agents developed in WW 2 are plenty deadly, Tabun, Sarin, among them. Hitler had a stockpile and never used it in the West.
and this prompts story telling time:
some 20 years ago i fielded a network of chem/bio sensors in the middle east. these were stationary devices that communicated with a radio modem- some high speed mess, at the time.
the chemical detector first implemented utilized an ion mobility based tech.. it was decently accurate but finicky to maintain especially in that environment with fine dust constantly loading up the filtration. at any rate, i had two that would constantly trigger, and they were adjacent each other. i never encountered a 'network' alarm, just individual units alarming... the way the algorithm worked was based on wind speed, barometric pressure, wind direction, ect--- a 'real' even would plume and that plume's movement was directed by meteorological events which could be anticipated... if a sensor fired off and then another a known distance and direction away, it would be considered a network event and the response handled much differently. these issues i faced weren't 'network'.
so, it was ion mobility as i've already stated... come to find out, the mathematics worked out that JP4 was close to a particular nerve agent in it's behavior as it passed through the chamber. it is nowhere near or even related to it molecularly- but in the case of ion mobility, it acted similar. weird, i know, and it took me some time to figure this out... bounced it off the white coats when i had enough data to support my discovery and it was no surprise to them... they looked at me dull eyed and said "yeah? what of it?"...
point being, yeah- if you have a sample and especially if that sample is not contaminated, it's 'easy' to identify even in the field... but, it's just as easy to go off on a wild goose chase and think you have something you don't if you don't carefully reconcile through different means/techs of identification.... in the field, mind you.
methyl parathyon is an example- it's a pesticide used sometimes in crop dusters. Ukraine is heavily agricultured... if an explosion struck a storage facility of that, alarms would ring as if it was a nerve agent.... because, it is. just not one that would hurt humans unless concentrated. i'm not making an excuse for the reports- i don't know... nobody does right now... i just hope this is carefully considered before action in response it taken... if they used chemical weapons, it's a game changer.
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I have a hard time distinguishing between a pile of civilians intentionally killed with an artillery shell, missile, or machine gun and a pile of civilians killed with sarin.
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Well they're all bad, that's for sure.
Further, I have a hard time distinguishing between a pile of dead Ukrainian civilians, and a pile of dead Ukrainian soldiers, in the context of an unprovoked and unacceptable invasion like this. Neither grouping would be suffering if it weren't for the murderous lunacy of an evil piece of shit.
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Getting hit with a nerve agent is a bad way to go, it sends you into convulsions.
It is interesting how these have been "banned" internationally from use while normal explosives are not.
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Getting hit with a nerve agent is a bad way to go, it sends you into convulsions.
It is interesting how these have been "banned" internationally from use while normal explosives are not.
Some kinds of normal explosives are "banned"-- at least, in use against civilians-- thus all the talk about "cluster munitions" and "vacuum bombs."
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I'd consider those other than normal explosives. A nuclear explosion is also "other than normal", to me. The depleted uranium shells are pretty widely used also.
The term "rules of war" are a bit mystifying at times, or a least an oxymoron of a sort.
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I'd consider those other than normal explosives. A nuclear explosion is also "other than normal", to me. The depleted uranium shells are pretty widely used also.
The term "rules of war" are a bit mystifying at times, or a least an oxymoron of a sort.
You can subdivide it all you like. A bullet or solid shell is quite different than an exploding shell. And both of those are quite different than a chemical weapon, which is quite different than a biological weapon.
A tactical field-based nuclear weapon is different than all of the above but it's still nothing like an ICBM in its range, scope, and capability.
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The term "sharpnell" is named after a British officer.
Like everyone else, I hope the chem weapons usage there is false.
Is Vladimir Putin sunk? | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/international/3265414-is-vladimir-putin-sunk/)
The French diplomat Segur commented that those on Napoleon’s staff would rather be wrong with Napoleon than right against him. It explains why President Kennedy (https://thehill.com/people/kennedy/), during the Bay of Pigs (https://thesimonscenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/IAJ-8-3-2017-pg98-105.pdf) fiasco, made a decision that in hindsight was not only bad but predictably bad. And it explains why Putin, surrounded by generals and sycophantic staff members who fear his wrath, miscalculated so badly by deciding to invade Ukraine.
General Sergei Shoigu (https://www.wsj.com/articles/russias-military-chief-promised-quick-victory-in-ukraine-but-now-faces-a-potential-quagmire-11646582366), on whom Putin (https://thehill.com/people/vladimir-putin/) relies for advice, is not a professional soldier, meaning his precarious political position makes him more likely to ingratiate himself by presenting one-sided information. Recent U.S. intelligence also reveals (https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/30/world/ukraine-russia-war-news) that Putin’s military advisers “misinformed” him and that there are serious tensions. In all these military examples, advisers were (or are) disincentivized to provide the unvarnished, unalloyed truth that all good leaders demand in times of crisis.
A month into the invasion, it’s now clear that Putin (https://thehill.com/people/vladimir-putin/), who appeared hell-bent on invading Ukraine (https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/02/18/putin-has-decided-to-invade-ukraine-biden-says-us-intelligence-has-concluded/), did not receive good intelligence about Ukrainian defenses and Ukrainian morale. Andrea Kendall-Taylor, who was U.S. deputy national intelligence officer for Russia and Eurasia from 2015-2018, said (https://www.wsj.com/articles/reported-detention-of-russian-spy-boss-shows-tension-over-stalled-ukraine-invasion-u-s-officials-say-11647687601) Russian security services have overlapping responsibilities and compete for favor from the Kremlin. And how does one security service within Russia earn the Kremlin’s favor? By telling Putin what he wants to hear. So Putin is discovering to his increasing dismay that Ukraine’s military was not a paper tiger and that the people themselves were not, as some advisers suggested, Russian sympathizers.
This last point echoes the problem the British
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Sunk cost traps.
If Ukraine can manage to hold on near Mariupol, I fear this is going to drag on for months if not years.
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Well they're all bad, that's for sure.
Further, I have a hard time distinguishing between a pile of dead Ukrainian civilians, and a pile of dead Ukrainian soldiers, in the context of an unprovoked and unacceptable invasion like this. Neither grouping would be suffering if it weren't for the murderous lunacy of an evil piece of shit.
Yeah dead is dead... but..
Chemical weapons can lay up- maintain their integrity... such as a protected depression or a tunnel. They can sit there for years.
Anthrax rides the line between bio and chemical when weaponized.. it was used in Rhodesian war to spike the ground, literally, so crops couldn't be grown and consumed. All these years later they still find some when they till. Part of the weaponozation was to encapsulate it, similar to grass seed, where it "lives" until it gets wet... and that's also its chemical hybridization... that capsule.
The ruskies used a chemical weapon not long ago- when the checks took hostages in a movie theater. They dispensed the agent as a flash bang would be used- with a stick of an assault team seemingly ready to make entry... the #2 guy leans out of the stick and once the breachers have busted the entry open tosses the flash bang in... except it wasnt a flash bang and the stick wasnt making entry.. they were just feigning such.
The real assault team waited out back of the theater and shot whoever they thought were tangos as they exited. They got some civilians, too, but hey- it's russia- some collateral damage is expected.
The interesting part is nobody knows what that agent was. It wasn't tear, CS, or anything related that they could tell. However, after a few minutes people wanted out of that place really badly. Those that collapsed didn't make it.
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I have a hard time distinguishing between a pile of civilians intentionally killed with an artillery shell, missile, or machine gun and a pile of civilians killed with sarin.
The only thing I can think of as far as distinguishing, is that the use of chemical weapons is far cheaper for the aggressor, which seems to be running out of supplies and money.
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You can subdivide it all you like. A bullet or solid shell is quite different than an exploding shell. And both of those are quite different than a chemical weapon, which is quite different than a biological weapon.
A tactical field-based nuclear weapon is different than all of the above but it's still nothing like an ICBM in its range, scope, and capability.
I hate biological weapons. We've been with one for 2.5+ years now.
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Chemical weapons are pretty good at "clearing urban areas of the unprotected" (civilians) and in static warfare with trenches.
As I recall, the Germans in War One used barrels of chlorine they would roll downhill into British trenches. It was a new thing.
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I hate biological weapons. We've been with one for 2.5+ years now.
I've got a theory on this one. All of my own design. Y'all ought to know i like a good conspiracy. I'm running out of those, though, as they're all coming true.
In Wuhan there was a laboratory, recently certified to handle certain pathogens. They were performing gain of function which is a household term now, but wasn't five years ago. The concept is to develop a virus based on projected mutations and alongside that, develop a means to defeat it... once that's discovered the formula is locked away. Maybe it's used? Maybe it isn't.
The kind of research going on there, largely funded by the US, is illegal to perform in the US. You know, sorta like the labs in Ukraine, to bring this full circle.
Here is the theory:
There is a hero or a handful of hero's in Wuhan. They, being part of the development, realized the purpose and set free a variant prior to the full development of the "virus", and when it was still at a point its lethality was in want. Don't get me wrong, a virus with an infection rate over 40% is almost certainly engineered, and covid is north of 90% at least at first- so that part was complete or near so- but the part that kills was behind... these "heros" saw that, and strategically released it allowing people to develop natural immunity and to the point the carpet was ganked from under the entire program.
Vaccines? Don't me started. :)
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I've got a theory on this one. All of my own design. Y'all ought to know i like a good conspiracy. I'm running out of those, though, as they're all coming true.
In Wuhan there was a laboratory, recently certified to handle certain pathogens. They were performing gain of function which is a household term now, but wasn't five years ago. The concept is to develop a virus based on projected mutations and alongside that, develop a means to defeat it... once that's discovered the formula is locked away. Maybe it's used? Maybe it isn't.
The kind of research going on there, largely funded by the US, is illegal to perform in the US. You know, sorta like the labs in Ukraine, to bring this full circle.
Here is the theory:
There is a hero or a handful of hero's in Wuhan. They, being part of the development, realized the purpose and set free a variant prior to the full development of the "virus", and when it was still at a point its lethality was in want. Don't get me wrong, a virus with an infection rate over 40% is almost certainly engineered, and covid is north of 90% at least at first- so that part was complete or near so- but the part that kills was behind... these "heros" saw that, and strategically released it allowing people to develop natural immunity and to the point the carpet was ganked from under the entire program.
Vaccines? Don't me started. :)
Be careful Drew, I might have to delete this off-topic and highly controversial post... ;)
Other than that, though, I like it. It's as good a conspiracy theory as anything else.
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It's really hard for me to take anything serious, @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) , for more than a few minutes. We're surrounded by hilarity.
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Here's why Russian tanks keep getting their turrets blown off in Ukraine (taskandpurpose.com) (https://taskandpurpose.com/analysis/russian-tanks-ukraine-turrets-blown-off/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0WjiDY-b0oQLeqhxBJqD8vXzc1ak24WtsntPF67U2z4QsWDAePUoI12lc)
Autoloaders, in essence.
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Here's why Russian tanks keep getting their turrets blown off in Ukraine (taskandpurpose.com) (https://taskandpurpose.com/analysis/russian-tanks-ukraine-turrets-blown-off/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0WjiDY-b0oQLeqhxBJqD8vXzc1ak24WtsntPF67U2z4QsWDAePUoI12lc)
Autoloaders, in essence.
Yup, American intel has noted this before in other encounters with them.
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Morse code intercepts of Russian communications below, indicate that the Moscow is sinking
https://twitter.com/IntelArrow/status/1514333728750784514?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1514335126926217217%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FIntelArrow%2Fstatus%2F1514335126926217217
https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/1514331758698844160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1514331758698844160%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FEuromaidanPR%2Fstatus%2F1514331758698844160%3Fs%3D2026t%3DdGPnzkpqxyGBX2p6AJ3WHg
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And here's Russia basically confirming it as well, but of course they just blame an "ammunition explosion" which is technically correct...
This is the flagship of the Black Sea fleet, for the record...
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1514379537903235074?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1514379537903235074%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FRALee85%2Fstatus%2F1514379537903235074
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Russia threatens new nuclear deployments if Sweden, Finland join NATO (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/14/russia-threatens-new-nuclear-deployments-if-sweden-finland-join-nato.html)
(https://i.imgur.com/ohdtjeJ.png)
Russia "owns" that red small triangle that once was Prussia, on the map. One can see Finland has a long border with mainland Russia though a lot of it is "remote". Were I Finland, I would stay the way things are now and strengthen my defenses. Russia has bad memories of attacking Finland. The Baltic states worry me a lot.
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Russia already has nukes in that little red dot.
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If they don't, it's a simple matter to put them there anyway. Their missiles can reach whatever anyway.
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If I were Finland I'd be trying to join NATO in a hurry before Russia tried to murder me same as they murder Georgia and Ukraine.
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I've been reading up on this a little, and it seems to me Finland has a plan, unlike those other two.
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Finland would be a tough cookie, as Russia learned in 1939. I think if Russia really did attack Finland, and I can't see why they would, we'd all be "in it" anyway, Article 5 or not. Maybe NATO needs some kind of additional "associate membership" beyond what Finland has today, I dunno.
The Article 5 thing is a concern for me.
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I've been reading up on this a little, and it seems to me Finland has a plan, unlike those other two.
Right now, their PLAN, is to join NATO as quickly as possible. I'd say that's a smart move.
I'm not claiming it's right or appropriate for the USA, nor would it come without significant risk and potential complications. But for Finland to improve significantly its national security in a short time, I think it's the correct move.
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Neptun Anti-Ship Cruise Missile | Military-Today.com (http://www.military-today.com/missiles/neptun.htm)
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Russian cruiser Moskva | Military Wiki | Fandom (https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Russian_cruiser_Moskva)
This is a big ship by modern standards, not all that modern.
(https://i.imgur.com/9OGIsxS.png)
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Russian cruiser Moskva | Military Wiki | Fandom (https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Russian_cruiser_Moskva)
This is a big ship by modern standards, not all that modern.
Last night, someone had edited the Wiki entry to say "Status: On Fire" but apparently that's now been changed...
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We have two stories about this, as expected. I tend to doubt the ship caught fire due to accident, but it's possible.
I don't think Ukrainians would have noticed if it caught fire that far offshore, but maybe through drones.
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It's safe to say that every single thing Russia publishes is a lie. So I let that maxim be my guide when sifting through the stories, looking for the truth.
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For example, when Russia releases a story like this, I immediately assume it to be false and it either never happened, or Russia intentionally bombed its own citizens as a false flag causus belli attempt to justify further mass murder of Ukrainian civilians.
https://twitter.com/MoscowTimes/status/1514604852604649476?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1514604852604649476%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FMoscowTimes%2Fstatus%2F1514604852604649476%3Fs%3D2026t%3DqvOHNZ4euyKHCjrfrGyc5A
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It's safe to say that every single thing Russia publishes is a lie. So I let that maxim be my guide when sifting through the stories, looking for the truth.
I would say it's propaganda, which often is based on partial truths when done effectively.
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A kernel of truth distorted to a false representation, is a lie.
I'm quite comfortable calling it that.
Stating a ship exploded on its own, when it was actually hit by the opponent's missiles, is a lie.
Stating that a village was bombed by the opponent when it either never happened, or you did it yourself, is a lie.
Everything Russia publishes is a lie and I'm just fine calling it out as such.
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My point is to suspect there is some truth in what they claim, what that is is not always clear, but one can perhaps glean some information from it at times. To discount it completely is not prudent in my view.
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What is to be gained from reading and believing a lie that their ship sank on its own? How is that prudent?
Yes, some of their propaganda is obvious and perhaps insightful. We know quite well that they often generate a false flag in order to justify some new heinous act, so right now we can expect increased slaughter of Ukrainian civilians. I'm not sure it's "prudence" rather than simple common sense.
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It is possible the ship caught fire, it happens, on its own. It didn't sink apparently. I don't know that it much matters in this case, but in other cases one could discern "truth" amongst the propaganda. The story about helicopters attacking a Russian town for example SUGGESTS the Russians are desperate for justification of further attacks. It's also a tacit admission they don't control the air space very well (if at all true). The tactics employed speak to their mindset, the story they are trying to sell, and one can ponder why they took that angle.
Anyway, I find their propaganda fascinating.
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Anyway
https://twitter.com/francska1/status/1514612770594906117?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1514612770594906117%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Ffrancska1%2Fstatus%2F1514612770594906117%3Fs%3D2026t%3DqvOHNZ4euyKHCjrfrGyc5A
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Russia accuses Ukrainian forces of shelling Russian village | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/3267356-russia-accuses-ukrainian-forces-of-shelling-russian-village/)
Russia accused Ukraine’s military of shelling a Russian village on Thursday, alleging seven people were wounded in the attack, including one young child.
The Investigative Committee of Russia claimed that at least six strikes (https://sledcom.ru/news/item/1674010/) had been carried out in the Russian village of Klimovo, which is located near the borders of Belarus and Ukraine, by two combat helicopters flying at low altitude.
In addition to the seven people injured, at least six residential buildings were hit, Russia claimed. The committee said it opened a criminal case as a result of the alleged shelling.
“The investigation established that persons from among the military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine entered into a criminal conspiracy among themselves in order to influence the adoption by the authorities of the Russian Federation of a decision to terminate the special military operation,” the Investigative Committee said, referring to Russia’s ongoing invasion of Ukraine.
I find this rather amusing, in the very dark sort of way, Russia complaining about some possible pinprick attacks on their country as if it's illegal. Meanwhile ... oh balderdash. As propaganda goes, this is lame.
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https://twitter.com/Euan_MacDonald/status/1514606625012609024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1514606625012609024%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FEuan_MacDonald%2Fstatus%2F1514606625012609024%3Fs%3D2026t%3DqvOHNZ4euyKHCjrfrGyc5A
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Given the Kremlin's reputation, anything from there should be treated as false unless and until proven otherwise.
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https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1514379169769086987?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1514379169769086987%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fb_judah%2Fstatus%2F1514379169769086987%3Fs%3D2026t%3DqvOHNZ4euyKHCjrfrGyc5A
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If I were Finland I'd be trying to join NATO in a hurry before Russia tried to murder me same as they murder Georgia and Ukraine.
Yeah, so this is completely backwards.
Russia did not get into armed conflict with Georgia or Ukraine until when? Until AFTER they were both invited into NATO by Bush II and intended on joining NATO. Not before.
Neutrality has worked very well for Finland over the last very many decades. Finland planning to join NATO would just escalate tensions and make the probability of WWIII kicking off go into f***king overdrive. No thanks.
Cooler heads need prevail. Russia is having a tough enough time as it is with Ukraine. No way they could possibly go toe to toe with Finland or Sweden simultaneously.
NATO expansion is not the answer. It will only escalate tensions, not de-escalate them.
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Russia threatens new nuclear deployments if Sweden, Finland join NATO (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/14/russia-threatens-new-nuclear-deployments-if-sweden-finland-join-nato.html)
(https://i.imgur.com/ohdtjeJ.png)
Russia "owns" that red small triangle that once was Prussia, on the map. One can see Finland has a long border with mainland Russia though a lot of it is "remote". Were I Finland, I would stay the way things are now and strengthen my defenses. Russia has bad memories of attacking Finland. The Baltic states worry me a lot.
There is absolutely no need to say Russia owns Kaliningrad in parenthesis- implying as if their ownership of it is not legitimate. It is legitimate.
USSR was given Kaliningrad in the Postdam agreement in 1945 and Germany formally relinquished any and all territorial claims of Kaliningrad in a treaty in 1990 and formally granted said territory to the USSR.
You know, when you’re a homicidal lunatic nation like Germany was for much of the 20th century and you start a couple world wars and kill countless tens of millions of people and are the worst mass murdering psychopathic killers in recorded human history- you tend to have to forfeit territory when you lose those wars.
I find it mind blowing that some people are cheering on Germany rearming itself. If history tells us anything…it’s that that’s not going to end well. For anyone.
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You know, when you’re a homicidal lunatic nation like Germany was for much of the 20th century and you start a couple world wars and kill countless tens of millions of people and are the worst mass murdering psychopathic killers in recorded human history- you tend to have to forfeit territory when you lose those wars.
I find it mind blowing that some people are cheering on Germany rearming itself. If history tells us anything…it’s that that’s not going to end well. For anyone.
None of this discussion (Germany and Japan re-arming, Sweden and Finland into NATO) takes place without Putin invading Russia, and getting his army and navy chewed to pieces. The geopolitical situation today is a very different one than it was two months ago.
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Yeah, so this is completely backwards.
Russia did not get into armed conflict with Georgia or Ukraine until when? Until AFTER they were both invited into NATO by Bush II and intended on joining NATO. Not before.
...
NATO expansion is not the answer. It will only escalate tensions, not de-escalate them.
You've been spewing this line of Kremlin bullshit for months now. You've been wrong every time. You swore up and down that dickface putin wouldn't invade, and here we are. You spent literlly HUNDREDS of pages telling me and others we were "stupid about this subject" because we stated our thoughts that the invasion was imminent. We were right.
You have no idea what his motivations are, but he's been talking about it for years. He views Ukraine not as an independent state deserving of sovereignty, but as an errant rogue child in need of being returned to Mother Russia.
He wrote an article last July, labeled by some as a manifesto, which is talked about here:
https://imrussia.org/en/opinions/3316-putin%E2%80%99s-article-as-a-manifesto-against-ukraine%E2%80%99s-sovereignty
And during an election campaign speech in 2012 he stated this:
“We will strengthen our ‘historical state,’ which we have inherited from our ancestors. A civilization-state, which can organically solve the task of integrating various ethnicities and religions. We have lived together for centuries. Together, we won the most horrible war [World War II]. And we will continue living together. And I just want to say one thing to those who want or try to separate us—don’t hold your breath.”
The error you keep on making, is that you think that such a desire to invade and subjugate Ukraine and other former Russian vassal states, can only stem from some Soviet era ideology. You're right about one thing-- dickface putin is not a Soviet communist idealogue. Rather, his desires for Russian reunification go back much MUCH further, to the Russian empire of old. He's said it many times. I don't know how he can state it any more plainly for you to understand.
NATO has nothing to do with it, NATO is a red herring, NATO is a false flag and a trumped up causus belli to do exactly what he dreams of-- reunifying as much of Imperial Russia as possible, before he dies.
Let's see... were Finland and Sweden ever invaded by Russia and subjugated into the Russian Empire?
Oh yeah, they sure were.
They're 100% right to be searching for extra security against dickface putin and his dreams of imperial Russian reunification through subjugation. That's exactly what I'd be doing if I were them. Because they know Russia a hell of a lot better than you or I do.
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Anyway, I guess it's official. She sank in a storm...
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1514694898221518856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1514694898221518856%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FRALee85%2Fstatus%2F1514694898221518856%3Fs%3D2026t%3DNmQSZIDHbyoFG-xEnjWjww
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Russians refer to their ships as "he".
I don't see some NATO thing as at all relevant. And I'd note they still haven't taken Kyiv, who I used to spell Kiev.
Putin has messed up, he has no winning scenario left here.
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Russians refer to their ships as "he".
I don't see some NATO thing as at all relevant. And I'd note they still haven't taken Kyiv, who I used to spell Kiev.
Putin has messed up, he has no winning scenario left here.
Agreed.
And I also agree with @GopherRock (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=47) 's statement that the geopolitical scene is quite different than it was two months ago, and I don't think NATO membership is going to be all that important as a defense against Russia, going forward. I think over time, Sweden and Finland will also come to that conclusion. The back of the Russian Bear is broken. Sure, they have the threat of nuclear weapons, but you don't use nukes on countries you're trying to conquer.
We're watching the last gasps of a dying empire. For the USA and most of the West, applying what pressure we can non-militarily, and waiting it out, is the most prudent course of action.
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https://twitter.com/Sputnik_Not/status/1514639422427475980?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1514639422427475980%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FSputnik_Not%2Fstatus%2F1514639422427475980
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(https://i.imgur.com/T7ZyxMA.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/zynorFB.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/25KR0d7.png)
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Pro-Ukrainian pranksters at the Russian Embassy in DC, projecting a Ukrainian flag onto the front of the embassy. The Russians brought out a white spotlight to try to overpower and obscure the yellow and blue, and then the game of cat and mouse was ON.
https://twitter.com/benjaminwittes/status/1514422654152982529
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Does it mean anything real to recall one's Ambassador for consultations? probably not.
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Russians refer to their ships as "he".
I don't see some NATO thing as at all relevant. And I'd note they still haven't taken Kyiv, who I used to spell Kiev.
Putin has messed up, he has no winning scenario left here.
I think you are right. Even if Ukraine is officially no longer going to join NATO- he’s got NATO countries like Germany re-arming to the teeth and long neutral countries like Sweden and Finland seriously considering joining NATO for the first time ever really.
Then not to mention he’s got all of Western Europe on course to pivot away from his country’s only main export- and moving towards US LNG or solar or nuclear. It won’t happen overnight, but in the next 10 years or so- the Western European countries dependent on Russian oil and gas will diversify their energy sources and increasingly move away from Russia.
He absolutely f***d Russia over by invading Ukraine. And the longer it goes on the weaker Russia will get and the more it will be bled.
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Why did Putin invade Ukraine now? | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/3269193-why-did-putin-invade-ukraine-now/)
Interesting speculation.
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Why did Putin invade Ukraine now? | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/3269193-why-did-putin-invade-ukraine-now/)
Interesting speculation.
It is interesting, and makes some good points.
One thing he doesn't mention, but I think must be assumed, is that dickface putin really did expect a welcoming parade on the march to Kyiv. Which just doesn't make any sense, given the bitter fighting that's been ongoing for years in Donbas. Those regions are far more pro-Russian than anything to the west, and even many of THEM are fighting to keep themselves away from the tyranny and oppression of Russian rule.
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I posted this before about Russian tanks, and they relate to the Moskva as well I think. Soviet arms tend to be heavily loaded with ordnance at the expense of survivability. Their tanks use autoloaders, which cut number of men inside by one, and they are cramped by western standards. The good part is they can have a smaller profile, and reload quickly, the bad is ammunition is stored in the autoloader in an area less well protected than what we have in the M1A2.
The Moskva was loaded with missiles, on deck, you can see the launchers readily. US ships use vertical launch silos for cruise and other missiles and they are somewhat better protected and isolated. Any mishap on the Moskva would be more prone in turning into a chain reaction where many warheads are in danger. Once that starts, survivability is in doubt. But they carry a lot of missiles. If they were hit by one cruise missile, they might have ejected the rest of their load and contained the damage, if they had time. They seem to have abandoned ship rather quickly, probably because it was already engulfed and bad things happened.
That is a significant loss for their navy, not so much in capability but a lot in imagery. And it means their ships will have to stand further offshore I think if this was a Neptun strike. This might have saved Odessa from attack.
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Russia has proven itself to lack expeditionary capabilities, by my reckoning, and that is all. Invading Russia would be an entirely different argument. It's funny, but the concern over their military might, in hindsight, was foreshadowing for what we're seeing right now.
i'll explain that^ by saying: In the west specifically here we've concerned over Russia since WWII. The 'threat' prompted all kinds of expenditures and development of weapons and wares, and because they were sold as 'capable'. Our entire defense mechanism is based on keeping the fight elsewhere. we are supremely expeditionary and we're really the only might on the planet capable of waging a war off our soil where the threat to defenders is real and present. We figured russia to be the same.. they are not the same. however, like N.Korea, if teh fight was brought to them they'd be an entire different nut to crack.... still not as tough as we though they were, but not a walk in the park either.
the corruption in the ranks of russia is apparent here too- the expenditures to support their military readiness was squandered. they're operational tempo on paper was and is unsustainable and unobtainable not due to piss poor planning or strategy, but based on material capability. it's not like they didn't spend the money to outfit the ranks, it's just little of that money actually went to that outfitting.... Chinese tires is the glaring example that caused all grades of grief and is the principle cause for a great big ass stuck convoy.
all that said- and adding that putin thought he was ready for such an adventure and being completely wrong (and because of lack of understanding actual readiness of his forces), there is another fold to this that everyone here needs to wrap their brain around- and that is the simple fact that information is being carefully controlled about this entire circumstance. there are parts in whole we have no clue about. the media is actively oppressing opposition to their narrative. before you think i'm being critical of Ukraine and giving russia an out, what i'm going to say contrary is "both sides are bad". just because there is one bad guy doesn't mean there aren't two and certainly doesn't mean there is a good guy. Ukraine is as corrupt a nation as there is- right up there with Russia, China, and US. when there is corruption present and on the scale it is, all bets are off when it comes to pointing out who is right and who is wrong. if you think you've obtained enough information to make a determination about that, and from the worldwide cabal of fake news peddlers, you're part of the pliable and moldable populace those in the seat of power want in a citizenry.
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The expeditionary nature of our military force is why we spend so much.
If we only had to defend CONUS+2, it would be a lot smaller.
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Russia has proven itself to lack expeditionary capabilities, by my reckoning, and that is all. Invading Russia would be an entirely different argument. It's funny, but the concern over their military might, in hindsight, was foreshadowing for what we're seeing right now.
i'll explain that^ by saying: In the west specifically here we've concerned over Russia since WWII. The 'threat' prompted all kinds of expenditures and development of weapons and wares, and because they were sold as 'capable'. Our entire defense mechanism is based on keeping the fight elsewhere. we are supremely expeditionary and we're really the only might on the planet capable of waging a war off our soil where the threat to defenders is real and present. We figured russia to be the same.. they are not the same. however, like N.Korea, if teh fight was brought to them they'd be an entire different nut to crack.... still not as tough as we though they were, but not a walk in the park either.
the corruption in the ranks of russia is apparent here too- the expenditures to support their military readiness was squandered. they're operational tempo on paper was and is unsustainable and unobtainable not due to piss poor planning or strategy, but based on material capability. it's not like they didn't spend the money to outfit the ranks, it's just little of that money actually went to that outfitting.... Chinese tires is the glaring example that caused all grades of grief and is the principle cause for a great big ass stuck convoy.
all that said- and adding that putin thought he was ready for such an adventure and being completely wrong (and because of lack of understanding actual readiness of his forces), there is another fold to this that everyone here needs to wrap their brain around- and that is the simple fact that information is being carefully controlled about this entire circumstance. there are parts in whole we have no clue about. the media is actively oppressing opposition to their narrative. before you think i'm being critical of Ukraine and giving russia an out, what i'm going to say contrary is "both sides are bad". just because there is one bad guy doesn't mean there aren't two and certainly doesn't mean there is a good guy. Ukraine is as corrupt a nation as there is- right up there with Russia, China, and US. when there is corruption present and on the scale it is, all bets are off when it comes to pointing out who is right and who is wrong. if you think you've obtained enough information to make a determination about that, and from the worldwide cabal of fake news peddlers, you're part of the pliable and moldable populace those in the seat of power want in a citizenry.
This is akin to the "everybody's doing it" cop-out for cheating in college athletics. It's explicitly untrue but worse, it's dangerously misleading and excusing.
Sure, every nation has its bad actors and its bad cultural doctrine. And that's as far as this line of thought needs to go. Because:
Ukraine didn't invade Russia, Ukraine is not currently engaged in genocide of the Russian people.
That's all that need be said.
The End.
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Someone else might argue:
Ukraine was going to join NATO.
Ukraine was dominated by neoNazis, as is Germany and Poland (and the US)
NATO was a threat to Russia now on a large front.
NATO would likely have invaded Russia, so this invasion was justified.
Or something like that.
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Someone else might argue:
Ukraine was going to join NATO.
Ukraine was dominated by neoNazis, as is Germany and Poland (and the US)
NATO was a threat to Russia now on a large front.
NATO would likely have invaded Russia, so this invasion was justified.
Or something like that.
Yes, psychopathic liars might say such things.
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Anyway, intentions aside, Ukraine's tactics are certainly harsh. But if I were being murdered for no reason, I'd probably be much harsher.
https://twitter.com/drewharwell/status/1514941871830835200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1514941871830835200%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdrewharwell%2Fstatus%2F1514941871830835200%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1514944167318806531257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es2_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16%2Ftopics%2F3283686
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Here’s why RTS Moskva (121), Russian Navy’s Black Sea flagship, could have Exploded by Itself - The Aviation Geek Club (https://theaviationgeekclub.com/heres-why-rts-moskva-121-russian-navys-black-sea-flagship-could-have-exploded-by-itself/amp/?fbclid=IwAR0YdHNCfgJNtvsT_sHPplwOyCdr-_JBGRVMIVAkqbpRrgkaqy0_O1UdUzk)
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Yeah I've seen speculation that it was self-induced. The Russians certainly claim that. But of course, as has been well established, everything they publish is a lie.
Four things give me pause and make me think it was a result of some kind of Ukrainian attack:
1) Ukraine called it out and reported it first, many hours before US intel noted it and almost a day before Russia acknowledged it. If they hadn't been striking it intentionally, I'm not sure they would have had eyes on it to notice it in distress.
2) Russia moved the rest of its Black Sea fleet further south and further away from the Ukrainian coast. If the Moscow really did encounter a self-induced accident and not a land-based missile attack from Ukraine, why would Russia be concerned with being too close to the coastline? Why yesterday, all of a sudden, would it seem like the prudent time to move the fleet back?
3) After days of light or zero shelling, last night Russia released a furious barrage of cruise missiles at almost every Ukrainian town they could. Places they'd stopped shelling weeks ago, got a healthy dose of Russian attempted genocide once again throughout the night hours.
4) Their state TV hosts were furiously vociferous about wanting revenge on Ukraine for the sinking of the warship. That seems like a curious stance to take, if it was just a self-induced accident and the ship sank because of a storm.
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(https://i.imgur.com/2aPcAbq.png)
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Finland ‘highly likely’ to join NATO, minister says | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/3269714-finland-highly-likely-to-join-nato-minister-says/)
Finland’s Minister of European Affairs said the country is “highly likely” to join NATO as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine continues.
Tytti Tuppurainen told Sky News (https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-finland-highly-likely-to-join-nato-countrys-europe-minister-says-12590665) that polls in Finland, which borders Russia, show significant support for joining the alliance.
“At this point I would say it is highly likely, but a decision has not yet been made,” Tuppurainen said.
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Russia sends formal letter warning US to stop arming Ukraine: report (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/russia-sends-formal-letter-warning-us-to-stop-arming-ukraine-report/ar-AAWfOS8?li=BBorjTa&fbclid=IwAR25tdI3s_Q64WztrWp-AtqlnopW6HgX160fV6X5RkS78YEzwRXHe3oO24c)
Russia has sent a formal letter to the U.S. warning that shipments of sensitive weapons from the United States and NATO were exacerbating tensions in Ukraine and could lead to “unpredictable consequences,” The Washington Post reported.
The letter, which was viewed by he Post, added that the U.S. has flouted the rules governing the transfer of weapons to conflict zones.
According to the letter dated Tuesday, Russia accused NATO of impeding early peace negotiation with Ukraine “in order to continue the bloodshed.”
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Every word a lie, every accusation a confession.
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Do you think Finland is correct if they apply for NATO membership?
They'd be accepted quickly. (Do they have neoNazis up there?)
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Are you asking me? I think they'd be doing the right thing for them, in the short term. But like I said yesterday, I think this insane war marks the end of Russian power and that ultimately they won't need NATO protection because Russia's not going to be able to replace its heavy losses in troops or equipment. Beyond that, their brand of mob-style leadership with its extreme corruption, thuggery, and theft, is never going to lend itself to effectively channeling its funds into proper military build-out and maintenance.
If they were ever able to put together a truly democratically elected government with oversight and checks and balances, they might be able to correct their inherent cultural problems which inevitably lead to their poor military capability, so they could become a threat then. But of course, without a psychotic autocrat at their head, they'd also be a lot less likely to ever attempt invasion and genocide in the first place.
So I think Finland can and should want NATO membership now, but a year from now, it will be unnecessary. Same for Sweden.
And from a US perspective, I'd prefer them not join NATO and become yet another nation that is dependent on US protection.
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...... But of course, as has been well established, everything they publish is a lie.....
established by who? is this a simple appeal to masses? do you have definitive evidence that everything they publish is a lie?
they're ALL lying or at least wrong as much as right, or at least only sharing things that support their cause, or cherry picking information to paint an image of their design only loosely resembling the actual art..
you don't know why Russia invaded Ukraine... all you know is the side our media spews.. and their media... and the lapdogs of social media. you don't know a g'damn thing, but you're presenting yourself as an expert and can't even say "putin" without dickface...
Ukraine is and was as corrupt as can possibly be. Along with Russia. Along with us. and these demigods drag citizens into war with their games of self gain and/or aggrandizing. You can waive your flag all you want in support of the Ukraine, and good on ya (I too believe it's pretty obvious Ukraine is the lessor of the two evils), but the truth is we don't know a damn thing. not. a. damn. thing. and.... the whole damn thing stinks to high heaven.
i make jokes all the time and saying "things grandaddy taught me"- and one of those sayin's is "IF'n somebody trying to get an emotional reaction out of you, boy, they tryin' to manipulate you".... but guess what? that wasn't grandaddy... I never knew granddad. i ain't freakin certain i had one.. instead, that nugget was chopped up and rephrased by yours truly and gleaned from a basic course in psyops.... it's the #1 "tell" you're being played. Truth stands alone and without concern for ridicule or scrutiny.. lies and innuendo can't. If you don't see the manipulation present in every-single-damn-thing "newsworthy" then you are a god damn fool. ... and 'that' is what 'they' are betting on and betting on heavily- that people will buy their bull shit without scrutiny, becoming emotionally charged enough to incite violence and do 'their' dirty work...
who the eff are "they"? THAT is the question... THEY are the ones calling the shots globally. THEY are the ones, most likely, that have Biden propped up like Bernie having a sequel weekend... "they" are the ones keeping US in the USA at odds with their hateful rhetoric, selective reporting, and other emotionally charged bitter pills that make you not stop long enough to scrutinize anything... to confuse your concepts of intelligence and aptitude to discern facts from conjecture with being able to simply recite what they fed you, and at the behest of "they" who we can't even identify or know who/what they are.
the only thing that is well established is every source of information requires scrutiny.
you may take this as a personal assault... that would be how you are conditioned by "they"... yet, it's not. It's a simple intent to snap you out of it and get you to take another long hard look without the lenses "they've" put over your eyes.
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established by who? is this a simple appeal to masses? do you have definitive evidence that everything they publish is a lie?
they're ALL lying or at least wrong as much as right, or at least only sharing things that support their cause, or cherry picking information to paint an image of their design only loosely resembling the actual art..
you don't know why Russia invaded Ukraine... all you know is the side our media spews.. and their media... and the lapdogs of social media. you don't know a g'damn thing, but you're presenting yourself as an expert and can't even say "putin" without dickface...
Ukraine is and was as corrupt as can possibly be. Along with Russia. Along with us. and these demigods drag citizens into war with their games of self gain and/or aggrandizing. You can waive your flag all you want in support of the Ukraine, and good on ya (I too believe it's pretty obvious Ukraine is the lessor of the two evils), but the truth is we don't know a damn thing. not. a. damn. thing. and.... the whole damn thing stinks to high heaven.
i make jokes all the time and saying "things grandaddy taught me"- and one of those sayin's is "IF'n somebody trying to get an emotional reaction out of you, boy, they tryin' to manipulate you".... but guess what? that wasn't grandaddy... I never knew granddad. i ain't freakin certain i had one.. instead, that nugget was chopped up and rephrased by yours truly and gleaned from a basic course in psyops.... it's the #1 "tell" you're being played. Truth stands alone and without concern for ridicule or scrutiny.. lies and innuendo can't. If you don't see the manipulation present in every-single-damn-thing "newsworthy" then you are a god damn fool. ... and 'that' is what 'they' are betting on and betting on heavily- that people will buy their bull shit without scrutiny, becoming emotionally charged enough to incite violence and do 'their' dirty work...
who the eff are "they"? THAT is the question... THEY are the ones calling the shots globally. THEY are the ones, most likely, that have Biden propped up like Bernie having a sequel weekend... "they" are the ones keeping US in the USA at odds with their hateful rhetoric, selective reporting, and other emotionally charged bitter pills that make you not stop long enough to scrutinize anything... to confuse your concepts of intelligence and aptitude to discern facts from conjecture with being able to simply recite what they fed you, and at the behest of "they" who we can't even identify or know who/what they are.
the only thing that is well established is every source of information requires scrutiny.
you may take this as a personal assault... that would be how you are conditioned by "they"... yet, it's not. It's a simple intent to snap you out of it and get you to take another long hard look without the lenses "they've" put over your eyes.
I've already addressed all of this dozens of times.
I'll simply respond by saying something my grandaddy taught me-- When you think you're the smartest person in the room, you definitely are not.
(He never said that either, but he probably would have. He was the smartest person in the room)
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I've already addressed all of this dozens of times.
I'll simply respond by saying something my grandaddy taught me-- When you think you're the smartest person in the room, you definitely are not.
(He never said that either, but he probably would have. He was the smartest person in the room, pretty much at all times)
that was a nice cut... but it didn't hurt.
you've got a gaping chasm now and then in your earlier "addresses". You also have gaps that should prevent you from formulating an opinion and certainly projecting it as fact when it comes to military operations.
Russia's military isn't 'made' to seize and occupy. they are made to 'destroy'. their expeditionary capabilities are weak. we've known that, but didn't know it was as bad as it is.
i'm not the smartest person in the room by a far cry- and i can't recall ever being the smartest person in the room even when i'm alone- but we've never been in the same room that i know of.
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that was a nice cut... but it didn't hurt.
you've got a gaping chasm now and then in your earlier "addresses". You also have gaps that should prevent you from formulating an opinion and certainly projecting it as fact when it comes to military operations.
Russia's military isn't 'made' to seize and occupy. they are made to 'destroy'. their expeditionary capabilities are weak. we've known that, but didn't know it was as bad as it is.
i'm not the smartest person in the room by a far cry- and i can't recall ever being the smartest person in the room even when i'm alone- but we've never been in the same room that i know of.
Your assumption that anyone that doesn't see things the way you do, is not seeing it correctly, is precisely where your gaps are. If you presume that you've got the skinny and nobody else "gets it" then you're already lost. You don't know anything about me.
I suppose we could do this all day. But there's not much point to it.
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that was a nice cut... but it didn't hurt.
you've got a gaping chasm now and then in your earlier "addresses". You also have gaps that should prevent you from formulating an opinion and certainly projecting it as fact when it comes to military operations.
Russia's military isn't 'made' to seize and occupy. they are made to 'destroy'. their expeditionary capabilities are weak. we've known that, but didn't know it was as bad as it is.
i'm not the smartest person in the room by a far cry- and i can't recall ever being the smartest person in the room even when i'm alone- but we've never been in the same room that i know of.
Having been the smartest person in the room a lot let me tell you its a heavy burden with a lot of responsibility
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That's the opposite of my assumption. I'm offering I don't know a damn thing. I'm also suggesting it's not from ignoring or remaining ignorant of what's reported. I don't need to be an authority about this, but I take issue when others do that obviously have no greater knowledge of the circumstances as I do.
Granddaddy said "beware of the first safe harbor to appear in chaos. Theyre most likely the authors of that chaos or in league with those who created it".
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(https://i.imgur.com/o6nsj2L.png)
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That's the opposite of my assumption. I'm offering I don't know a damn thing. I'm also suggesting it's not from ignoring or remaining ignorant of what's reported. I don't need to be an authority about this, but I take issue when others do that obviously have no greater knowledge of the circumstances as I do.
Granddaddy said "beware of the first safe harbor to appear in chaos. Theyre most likely the authors of that chaos or in league with those who created it".
OK
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One thing we can agree on is Ukraine is kicking the snot out of Russia and that surely isn't the expectation putin had authorizing this..... which means invading was a massive mistake no matter what is cited as the cause or "justification" (as if there is one).
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I think I can speak for all of us when I say I hate bullies and right now russia is being a bully
There just is no justification for what they are doing
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They are trying to be a bully, and getting return damage, the little guy is kicking sand in their faces too.
Russia invaded Ukraine.
Ukraine resisted pretty effectively around Kyiv.
Russian controls more territory in the south above Crimea (to some extent).
Their flagship sank.
Mariupol is a point of current focus and fighting.
Ukrainian cities have suffered significant damage from artillery, rockets, and missile and air attacks.
Those top lines to me seem unquestioned. The rest is kind of details.
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plus
Russia has killed thousands of civilians and taken thousands more prisoner
Russian losses to date are high. NATO estimates that Russia has lost between 7,000 and 15,000 soldiers (https://time.com/6160174/russian-soldiers-killed-ukraine/). Wounded who cannot rapidly return to duty generally number about twice the number of dead. That would mean that Russia has lost between 21,000 and 45,000 troops in four weeks of conflict.
Russia has lost close to 600 tanks and 150 aircraft and one big ass ship
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I've already addressed all of this dozens of times.
Quit stealing MDoT's lines
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the fact russia invaded can't be compromised. there is really no excuse for that. it's not like they had WMD's or anything (DOH!!! ouch.... I went there)...
assumption:
- -nations don't go to war without threat
- -nations exhaust every other option before going to war
- -nations don't invade and occupy without good cause.
more assumption wrapped up in speculation:
- -putin (dickface?) believed Ukraine corrupt and a threat to Russia
- -putin believed the ukrainian people would not fight back, that they would wave the russian flag upon the russian approach
more assumption still, speculation, and throwing spit wads at the wall to see if they stick:
- - putin saw corruption in ukraine as a threat to russia based on who the ukrainian leadership is in cahoots with, and figured now was the time to free the people and eliminate the threat, and in some wild vision believed his own legend that others would cower to his prowess... whoops.
- he truly thought he'd be received as some arriving conqueror celebrated by the masses, and at the same time gaining leverage over the US and the US ties to Ukraine which are mostly under the table and... corrupt.
- he figured he'd gain control of oil, grain, and mostly information/knowledge/proof of corruption involving OUR elected, and therefor ownership over those involved.
no matter how it's sliced, he's a bully... that's a good observation that's true no matter what. his plans were dashed, as that's pretty obvious, and whatever advantage he sought has been lost far beyond anything he would have hoped o gain at face value.
the oddest part of all of this that just perplexes the hell out of me is: this isn't his M.O... he's been supremely pragmatic and calculating his entire life... has he gone senile like our leadership? I'm being serious... i'd almost be relieved if he was. otherwise, this is too big a mistake by him to be 'all there is'.
personal opinion: i hope he is relieved soon of any power whatsoever. if he's a whackado, which it appears, he damn sure would light the sky.
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Many wars in the past were fought because a stronger country or power wanted the lands of the weaker, Hitler for example. Napoleon had a goal of a united Europe with him as Emperor. It's not always a response to a threat.
I think Putin had sycophantic generals around him who assured him of a walkover that would be done before the West could really react, a la Crimea.
It likely would be unhealthy to tell Putin anything else.
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I was right this war would become stale and boring with not much news about it.
First images of the damaged Moskva.
What we knew before:
1. It is really difficult to sink a 12,000 tonne cruiser with 2x150kg warheads. A well trained crew could easily save the ship.
2. Russians are not necessarily well trained
3. Moskva wasnt upgraded like Marshal Ustinov and is a 1980s relic with minor upgrades to her propulsion.
What the image adds to our know how:
1. She was hit amidships, fore of her stacks and abeam her stack, right at her engine room 1.
2. Scorch marks from port side holes show the fire spread aft, upto the heli hangar.
3. She has a severe list to port because of hull breaches.
4. The hull has buckled just fore of the heli hangar, might be a known weak point in the hull.
5. Their Top Dome FCS is stowed, it used for the S300 so they clearly didnt know what hit em. If you see an inbound missile, you are using your best systems to target it.
(https://i.imgur.com/X75Sqpu.png)
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I think I can speak for all of us when I say I hate bullies and right now russia is being a bully
There just is no justification for what they are doing
there is basically never justification for invasion if you ask me. it's one of the most heinous and serious crimes a country can commit. And the US has it's own dirty history with this. Obviously what Russia is doing is inhuman and disgusting. But it's hard for anyone in US to cast stones at Russia when this country has massive blood on it's hands via multiple unprovoked, illegal invasions. It's just hard to take US media and political elite serious on this without wanting to laugh, cry, and vomit.
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Anyway, intentions aside, Ukraine's tactics are certainly harsh. But if I were being murdered for no reason, I'd probably be much harsher.
https://twitter.com/drewharwell/status/1514941871830835200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1514941871830835200%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdrewharwell%2Fstatus%2F1514941871830835200%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1514944167318806531257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es2_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftexags.com%2Fforums%2F16%2Ftopics%2F3283686
that isn't just harsh, it's inhumane and disgusting, and might even be a war crime.
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Someone else might argue:
Ukraine was going to join NATO.
Ukraine was dominated by neoNazis, as is Germany and Poland (and the US)
NATO was a threat to Russia now on a large front.
NATO would likely have invaded Russia, so this invasion was justified.
Or something like that.
this is one of your more stupid posts. congrats.
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Do you think Finland is correct if they apply for NATO membership?
They'd be accepted quickly. (Do they have neoNazis up there?)
Finland would be insane to join NATO. Ditto Sweden. Being neutral has served both countries well.
#1 - Joining would only inflame tensions. A LOT. We need to de-escalate tensions, not escalate them.
#2 - there is no real need for either of them to join NATO. There has been no tension/fighting/proxy wars going on with Finland or Sweden and Russia like there had been with Russia-Ukraine for almost a decade now. And that point aside- Russia's military cannot even execute an invasion of Ukraine. They are getting their asses shown and being exposed. Imagine them trying to invade 2 or 3 countries at once. Yeah, they can't. There's zero shot they could pull that off.
#3 - irregardless of Finland or Sweden being in NATO - IF on the less than 1% chance Russia tried anything with either country (again, they are having a tough enough time with Ukraine as is) - the US/NATO wouldn't stand aside. The calls for war with Russia would be too great.
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Appeasement benefits someone, not Western Europe, not the United States, not Taiwan. Appeasement benefits aggressors.
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Would Zelensky accept a cease fire if Putin offered now, or once the land bridge is secured?
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Zelensky should accept a cease fire at anytime w/o a reason
well, the reason would be fewer killed
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there is basically never justification for invasion if you ask me. it's one of the most heinous and serious crimes a country can commit. And the US has it's own dirty history with this. Obviously what Russia is doing is inhuman and disgusting. But it's hard for anyone in US to cast stones at Russia when this country has massive blood on it's hands via multiple unprovoked, illegal invasions. It's just hard to take US media and political elite serious on this without wanting to laugh, cry, and vomit.
Invading 'Stan was justified in my opinion. The US was attacked on 9/11 and the people responsible (Al Queda) needed to be taken down.
In hindsight, was it good for the US?
I'll give that a resounding NO.
ISIS is still a thing, even if Al Queda isn't. The bottom line is there will always be Islamic radicals looking to do harm on the US, so long as the US supports Israel.
I know. WAY off topic, so sorry about that UTee. Maybe he will now spare me.
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A cease fire does nothing for Zelensky right now. His charges are playing defense, well supplied, and highly motivated, unlike their Russian counterparts. It's status quo ante bellum or bust for Ukraine right now.
The only Putin victory in sight is the one France would give him if they were to be dumb enough to elect Marine LePen on Sunday.
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And Russian cease fires have shown to not be worth the paper they are written on.
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true about the paper, but playing defense against a cease fire is easier
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By cease fire, I mean formal agreement from both, perhaps with monitors. I don't mean a cession of conflict because one side is angling for something.
Right now, Ukraine is getting hammered pretty badly on infrastructure, and their farmers probably can't plant what they would normally, fuel for one thing.
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A cease fire does nothing for Zelensky right now. His charges are playing defense, well supplied, and highly motivated, unlike their Russian counterparts. It's status quo ante bellum or bust for Ukraine right now.
The only Putin victory in sight is the one France would give him if they were to be dumb enough to elect Marine LePen on Sunday.
This would be a disaster.
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My wife has volunteered to help count votes at the consulate here on Saturday.
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US Navy P-8 Poseidon aircraft reportedly assisted Ukrainians in hitting Moskva (navyrecognition.com) (https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/naval-news/naval-news-archive/2022/april/11650-us-navy-p-8-poseidon-aircraft-reportedly-assisted-ukrainians-in-hitting-moskva.html?fbclid=IwAR3mYxrZQEWPKizVXkGUA8itJ6YtXpNkLImYc3UZNguJB2KyWviZNEPFBlI)
Might be better had this not leaked, if true.
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reportedly is not solid evidence
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US Navy P-8 Poseidon aircraft reportedly assisted Ukrainians in hitting Moskva (navyrecognition.com) (https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/naval-news/naval-news-archive/2022/april/11650-us-navy-p-8-poseidon-aircraft-reportedly-assisted-ukrainians-in-hitting-moskva.html?fbclid=IwAR3mYxrZQEWPKizVXkGUA8itJ6YtXpNkLImYc3UZNguJB2KyWviZNEPFBlI)
Might be better had this not leaked, if true.
This came from the Daily Mail which is like the National Inquirer
I think if it had merit the Russians would be raising shit
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"F" the Russians
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"F" the Russians
and the horse they rode in on
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Ukraine has repelled numerous Russian assaults in Donbas, UK says | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/3461369-ukraine-has-repelled-numerous-russian-assaults-in-donbas-uk-says/)
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Macron won fairly convincingly though Le Pen made gains over last time out.
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How could we do this?
Ukraine asks U.S. for $2 billion per month in emergency economic aid (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ukraine-asks-u-s-for-2-billion-per-month-in-emergency-economic-aid/ar-AAWyhS7?ocid=anaheim-ntp-feeds&cvid=31c4a25eb37a44239da9c342afcfeb22)
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How could we do this?
Ukraine asks U.S. for $2 billion per month in emergency economic aid (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ukraine-asks-u-s-for-2-billion-per-month-in-emergency-economic-aid/ar-AAWyhS7?ocid=anaheim-ntp-feeds&cvid=31c4a25eb37a44239da9c342afcfeb22)
Hmmmmmm lets see
We could improve our southern border security
or we could send $2 billion a month to Ukraine
Ukraine wins
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i REALLY hope that P-8 story is BS... i'm guessing like was said here that if it were true Russia would be making a stink about it.... and they'd have a bit of leverage and basis... tossing someone a gun who is involved in a knife fight is one thing- shooting their opponent is another altogether.
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Sweden and Finland to apply for NATO membership in May.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10751743/Sweden-Finland-agree-apply-NATO-membership-defiance-Russian-threats.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10751743/Sweden-Finland-agree-apply-NATO-membership-defiance-Russian-threats.html)
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Wow, big news, presuming it's true.
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How could we do this?
Ukraine asks U.S. for $2 billion per month in emergency economic aid (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ukraine-asks-u-s-for-2-billion-per-month-in-emergency-economic-aid/ar-AAWyhS7?ocid=anaheim-ntp-feeds&cvid=31c4a25eb37a44239da9c342afcfeb22)
US needs to change its phone number.
This country is broke as f**k- federal govt running deficits until the end of time and borrowing money at insane levels- can’t even fix roads and bridges here- don’t have enough hospital beds for the people of this country, tens of millions without healthcare, failing decaying public schools in inner cities that look like war zones (see, Detroit) but we should go ahead and dole out $2 billion a month to other countries. Lmao.
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Sweden and Finland to apply for NATO membership in May.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10751743/Sweden-Finland-agree-apply-NATO-membership-defiance-Russian-threats.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10751743/Sweden-Finland-agree-apply-NATO-membership-defiance-Russian-threats.html)
that won’t lead to increased hostilities lol.
Russia doesn’t have the military to start invading Sweden and Finland while they are actively undertaking an invasion of Ukraine. Nor do they have the ability to go toe to toe with the US war machine.
Which makes me think there could be a possibility they launch nuclear strikes. I mean if their back is up the wall will they just concede defeat? Who knows. This is definitely very scary times. Need real leadership steering the ship right now telling these countries to pump the breaks and we’re not going to let them into nato, not the senile brain dead retard in office right now.
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I'm surprised people still use that word and also that this site doesn't censor it.
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I'm surprised people still use that word and also that this site doesn't censor it.
this site can certainly choose to censor the word if they wish.
can’t say I’m surprised there are pussies crying over words today. that’s like 99.97% of the world in the US today. oh no! He said words I don’t like! I need a safe space and a blanket! MOMMMMMY!
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Just edit your post please, and that'll be the end of it.
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Just edit your post please, and that'll be the end of it.
now thats funny
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I'm surprised people still use that word and also that this site doesn't censor it.
which word are you talking about
retard?
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Yes
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Yes
you know what the word means so what should be said in place of it?
mentally incompetent? Is that better?
dementia? How's this one
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I don't disagree w/ the sentiment of his post. Mentally incompetent is perfect. It's just one of those things that we used to be able to say and now cannot. I'm sure my parents and grandparents said a lot of things in their time that would be considered racist or insensitive today. I used to say that particular word a lot growing up along with some other things that I can't say now.
These things change over time, and I'm not a fan of digging up old Twitter posts etc. to prove someone said something years ago, when it may have been socially acceptable to do so. I just think we've reached the point on this one that it's time to move on to saying something else.
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I understand where you are coming from and I have never used that word in my memory
Having said that Im not a fan of outlawing words. Never have been.
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I don't want to get too far off topic here, but I think the reason it is inappropriate now is that it has transformed from a word into a slur, which unfortunately happens over time sometimes. It basically means then that even people who use the word for its original intent are now using it as a slur, or at least perceived to be doing that. It's why things get cringey sometimes when talking to your parents or grandparents. I know we had a great word for a bundle of firewood or female dog 100 years ago, but it has evolved. A word's meaning isn't frozen in time and will evolve as the culture evolves.
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I don't want to get too far off topic here, but I think the reason it is inappropriate now is that it has transformed from a word into a slur, which unfortunately happens over time sometimes. It basically means then that even people who use the word for its original intent are now using it as a slur, or at least perceived to be doing that. It's why things get cringey sometimes when talking to your parents or grandparents. I know we had a great word for a bundle of firewood or female dog 100 years ago, but it has evolved. A word's meaning isn't frozen in time and will evolve as the culture evolves.
I understand but the problem I have with banning words is just who decides a word should be banned.
Is there a word committee that decides this? anyway youre right this is off topic so I'll quit
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I get to decide that. I don't even have to sweat over it- I can just have a word that pops up replaced with another word or a phrase.
Easily, actually.
However.
I believe in free speech beyond fault. I embrace the other nine rights recognized by the constitution too. And being so, I don't censor here. I don't even censor south of here, and y'all should see some of the things posted there....
I figure a man says something that's his prerogative... yet so is the damage he does to his reputation. On a forum as like a social media account (unless you use your reap name) reputation is all you have to stand on. I've tarnished my own here several times bit that is what it cost me to share my thoughts.
Aint no censoring gonna happen... but neither will there be leniency for those who deserve the responses they've elicited.
Edited to add: this is my position on the matter. There are two more here that have weight equal to mine or doubling mine of I find myself alone. I may not agree with them (though we've never butted heads) but I'll be mature and honorable of they decide against my own council.
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OK, I too will chime in.
I would rather that word not be used. I'm sure ELA would be of the same thinking.
That makes the three of us.
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As for Ukraine...
How much longer can this go without escalation into something much worse? It's becoming pretty clear that the ussRussia cannot win this in a conventional manner, without completely destroying everything on the ground and murdering millions of people.
Pressure from the outside does not seem to be working.
How many people are lookalike stand-ins for Putin? Who has to taste his food before he eats?
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So, Russia reoriented in an apparent effort to secure said land bridge, and the "news" is not very much now. I suspect they are unable to do anything "newsworthy" and status quo doesn't get in the "news" ...
This is going to drag on for a long while I think, somewhat of an on going fairly low intensity conflict that is out of the news. For some folks, it won't seem low intensity of course.
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Is Moldova next?
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I'm sure it would be IF Russia somehow took all of Ukraine.
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Moldova is a decoy. It may have been next if the 3 day war had actually been a 3 day war.
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Is Moldova next?
they can't even take Ukraine. if they try invading another country simultaneously, it would probably break them.
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I Must Break You - Rocky IV - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lkhbD9vkfc)
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As for Ukraine...
How much longer can this go without escalation into something much worse? It's becoming pretty clear that the ussRussia cannot win this in a conventional manner, without completely destroying everything on the ground and murdering millions of people.
Pressure from the outside does not seem to be working.
How many people are lookalike stand-ins for Putin? Who has to taste his food before he eats?
It's times like these that one wishes the old school "Good Fellas" would make an encore
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I think Putin wants the land bridge and would offer a cease fire at that point. Claim victory and go on the defensive.
It's easy to defend, usually, than gain ground against resistance. This could be a slog, quagmire, for years, a standoff with attacks here and there.
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I think Putin wants the land bridge and would offer a cease fire at that point. Claim victory and go on the defensive.
It's easy to defend, usually, than gain ground against resistance. This could be a slog, quagmire, for years, a standoff with attacks here and there.
top US officials/planners saying this thing will last years. really horrific. wish there was something that could be done to end it.
I don't think it's as simple as removing Putin. Say Putin gets removed or dies. Is Russia really just going to stop? Doubtful. They have generals/military industrial complex/intelligence dickwads who always want war too. That's not a thing just the US experiences.
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https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-warns-serious-nuclear-war-risks-should-not-be-underestimated-2022-04-25/
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I'm worried about that.
I'm afraid Russia using nukes would be the straw that broke the NATO back and drew it in.
WWIII ensues.
What would China do??
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I think it would hinge on how Russia chose to deploy a nuclear weapon, if they did (which I think is low probability).
Imagine they backed off Mariupol and used some tactical nukes on the city, 2 or 3. I'm not sure that would draw us in, we'd certainly employ harsh language.
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(https://i.imgur.com/VNfLHbv.png)
There must be Dawg fans in Ukraine.
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White House is asking Congress for an additional $33 billion to give to Ukraine for military & economic support.
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Inflation in Germany hitting levels they haven't seen in over 30 years, due to what? Sky high energy prices, mostly due to the war.
https://twitter.com/markets/status/1519653275615825922?s=20&t=7u2EyJH8SzhoLXpTIrJPRg
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I think it would hinge on how Russia chose to deploy a nuclear weapon, if they did (which I think is low probability).
Imagine they backed off Mariupol and used some tactical nukes on the city, 2 or 3. I'm not sure that would draw us in, we'd certainly employ harsh language.
Yeah, I don’t know. If they actually use nukes, the outrage and outcry would be far too great for the world not to respond. A “tactical” nuclear weapon is still a freaking nuclear weapon. Tactical nukes don’t really have a defined yield. Tactical refers mainly to the range, not yield. The yield on tactical nukes can be anywhere from less than 5 to more than 100 kilotons. Hiroshima was “just” 15 kilotons and it killed 140,000 people.
If they launch any nukes - I’m afraid the US/NATO will be backed into a corner and have no choice but to actually go to war with Russia.
I’m obviously against all war- but if they launch nukes that’s just a bridge way too far. I don’t know how the world lets that pass. You cannot have a country just lobbing nuclear weapons off. That is unacceptable under any circumstance.
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I think "the world" would use harsh language. Maybe China would frown a bit.
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F China
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The current fight and lasting implications of the war in Ukraine | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/3470371-the-current-fight-and-lasting-implications-of-the-war-in-ukraine/)
Note in this about Russia becoming junior partner to China and isolated from most of the rest of the world.
India would play ball as well I think.
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The current fight and lasting implications of the war in Ukraine | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/3470371-the-current-fight-and-lasting-implications-of-the-war-in-ukraine/)
Note in this about Russia becoming junior partner to China and isolated from most of the rest of the world.
India would play ball as well I think.
With whom?
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India would buy Russia oil and stuff, military gear etc. The Russian military market is going to take a major hit just because countries are not going to want to rely on them for things like spare parts and upgrades going forward, but India likely will anyway. It'll be cheap. Literally.
China is likely to "adopt" Russia for their purposes even more than they have to date, a kind of reversal of 1970.
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The coming death of the Antonov in the Russian military as a whole. Probably. (https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t34/1/16/1f914.png)
One of the most insidious effects of the Ukraine War, is the fact that aside from sanctions imposed against Russia by the West, which is reportedly already causing a detrimental impact on the Russian defence industry, which relies heavily on imported Western components for their military equipment, a large number of Russian equipment also contain parts that are made in the Ukraine. Not to mention that the Russian Air Force actually have large numbers of Antonov transport aircraft which are made in the Ukraine.
By far the biggest impact on the Russian military, would likely be in the area of tactical transport aircraft especially in the light and heavy lift segments as this is where the majority of the Ukrainian made Antonov types serve in. For the medium lift segment, at least the Russians have the fully indigenous Ilyushin Il-76 Candid.
With official technical support cut off by the Ukrainians, not to mention the fact that the Antonov OKB is now technically dead, until it can hopefully be restarted after the war ends, after the Russian attack on their HQ which infamously destroyed the Antonov An-225 Mriya, the Ukrainians have no real means of supporting existing customers including the Russians anyway.
While in the short term it's expected that the Russians can keep their Antonov types flying thanks to existing stocks of spares, in the long run, the future of those aircraft are less certain. It's known that the Russians have long tried to replace Ukrainian components with locally produced equivalents in many of their equipment since they annexed Crimea in 2014. Perhaps that would be a viable solution to keep them flying. ~Clorox.
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Finland and NATO: What it means if Helsinki joins the alliance (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/02/finland-and-nato-what-it-means-if-helsinki-joins-the-alliance.html)
I lean to thinking the downside risk for them is not balanced with the upside security guarantee.
I don't really like Article 5 at this point.
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Finland and NATO: What it means if Helsinki joins the alliance (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/02/finland-and-nato-what-it-means-if-helsinki-joins-the-alliance.html)
I lean to thinking the downside risk for them is not balanced with the upside security guarantee.
I don't really like Article 5 at this point.
Agree with you 100%. Neutrality has worked well for them for 70+ years.
speaking of NATO/Article 5....this is maybe the best article I've ever read on NATO
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/07/26/nato-isnt-what-you-think-it-is/
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Its simple
they dont trust the Russians
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Nobody trusts Russians (Putin). But, I'm not sure this enhances Finnish security. There is a downside to it.
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Nobody trusts Russians (Putin). But, I'm not sure this enhances Finnish security. There is a downside to it.
fear has a way of dispensing with reason
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The M60 tank is old and not modern as compared to the M1 Abrams or the Armata. However, this MBT still keeps moving along the battlefield even in its more senior state: The American-built M60 is one of the most successful main battle tanks (MBTs) ever produced. More than 15,000 rolled off the production line, and since its introduction in 1959, the M60 has seen service in the armies of 22 nations. It was actually developed to counter the threat from the Soviet Union‘s medium tanks.\\
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/04/the-legendary-m60-tank-was-designed-to-beat-russia/ (https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/04/the-legendary-m60-tank-was-designed-to-beat-russia/)
[img width=1081.2 height=720 alt=M60]https://www.19fortyfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/M60.jpg[/img]
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fear has a way of dispensing with reason
right...which is Cincy's point I believe. this new found fear of Putin is messing with reason. Finland joining NATO would escalate tensions with Russia, not deescalate them.
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at this point let's just call this what it is....US is funding a proxy war to try to bleed Russia dry and give fat welfare checks to Raytheon & Friends. Biden admin have already given Ukraine $14 billion, Biden admin seeking another $33 billion from Congress to give Ukraine which runs out at end of fiscal year- which means in Sept the Biden admin will be coming back to Congress to ask for another $33 billion. That 14+33 billion is already about $3 billion more than the Biden admin has allocated for it's entire climate initiative- and it's not going to end there- they'll be coming back in Sept to ask for more $$$$. Studies have suggested $20 billion a year could pretty much end homelessness in the US. Can't have that. But can pull $47 billion out of their ass and thin air to fund war for another country. And it's not going to stop at $47 billion. You know once they approve this $33 billy and it runs out, come Sept the Biden admin will go right back to Congress to hit them up for more.
Kind of funny. Reminds me of that 2pac lyric....when it rains and pours they got money for wars but can't feed the poor.
And apparently, they even have money for wars that aren't even ours.
Best summation ever I've heard of NATO....NATO was created to keep the Russians out, keep the Americans in, and keep the Germans down.
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A substantial portion of aid to Ukraine is non-military.
And I think homelessness is a problem that can't be solved simply with money. A lot of these folks wouldn't live in a home even if it was free.
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A substantial portion of aid to Ukraine is non-military.
And I think homelessness is a problem that can't be solved simply with money. A lot of these folks wouldn't live in a home even if it was free.
bullshite.
define substantial grandpa. most of that money will be going to fund the war effort of ANOTHER country and the reason they are giving them that money is what: because of a war. A war that is not ours.
US shouldn’t give them a f***king single dollar more when there are people in this country who are being crushed by out of control inflation and living expenses, 30+ million Americans who still don’t have health care and when this country has a SERIOUS mental health and homelessness problem that it’s not even attempting to do anything about.
F**k that.
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WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden asked Congress on Thursday for $33 billion to bolster Ukraine’s fight against Russia, signaling a burgeoning and long-haul American commitment as Moscow’s invasion and the international tensions it has inflamed show no signs of receding.
The package (https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-biden-business-europe-congress-39e44e5c49c0d1d7ce970cc36b38f4b5) has about $20 billion in defense spending for Ukraine and U.S. allies in the region and $8.5 billion to keep Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s government providing services and paying salaries. There’s $3 billion in global food and humanitarian programs, including money to help Ukrainian refugees who’ve fled to the U.S. and to prod American farmers to grow wheat and other crops to replace the vast amounts of food Ukraine normally produces.
The package, which administration officials estimated would last five months, is more than twice the size of the initial $13.6 billion aid measure that Congress enacted early last month and now is almost drained. With the bloody war dragging into its third month, the measure was designed to signal to Russian President Vladimir Putin that U.S. weaponry and other streams of assistance are not going away.
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Russia, the US and the UK gave Ukraine a security guarantee in 1994 when they gave up their nuclear weapons to Russia. Finland probably took note in February that it's neutrality agreement with Russia is worthless. Finland and Sweden would be more secure once they join NATO and would have a nuclear deterrent. The EU and the US are in a proxy war with Russia and it's one they need to win or it'll get much larger.
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My thinking is that IF somehow Russia attacked Finland any time in the next decade or so, we'd be involved pretty quickly and probably directly anyway.
If Finland joins NATO and Russia attacks say Estonia or Romania, Finland would be treaty bound to attack Russia, in effect, Article 5.
(https://i.imgur.com/TpuA44n.png)
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WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden asked Congress on Thursday for $33 billion to bolster Ukraine’s fight against Russia, signaling a burgeoning and long-haul American commitment as Moscow’s invasion and the international tensions it has inflamed show no signs of receding.
The package (https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-biden-business-europe-congress-39e44e5c49c0d1d7ce970cc36b38f4b5) has about $20 billion in defense spending for Ukraine and U.S. allies in the region and $8.5 billion to keep Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s government providing services and paying salaries. There’s $3 billion in global food and humanitarian programs, including money to help Ukrainian refugees who’ve fled to the U.S. and to prod American farmers to grow wheat and other crops to replace the vast amounts of food Ukraine normally produces.
The package, which administration officials estimated would last five months, is more than twice the size of the initial $13.6 billion aid measure that Congress enacted early last month and now is almost drained. With the bloody war dragging into its third month, the measure was designed to signal to Russian President Vladimir Putin that U.S. weaponry and other streams of assistance are not going away.
yawn. over 60% of the new funding going directly to what....weapons/war. Which is what? $20 billion of welfare checks to Raytheon & Friends.
And why the f**k is the US giving Ukraine $8.5 billion to pay government salaries and pensions again? How about you spend that here on your own people first.....Ukraine is one of THE most corrupt countries on planet earth. You realize there is absolutely ZERO percent change that some of this money WON'T get stolen by corrupt Ukrainian officials, right?
And this proposed funding which no doubt will get approved will run out at end of fiscal year- which means they'll just ramp up more US tax payer funding come September- and then they'll ask for another $33 billion or who knows- maybe even more. They will easily wind up giving close to $100 billion if not more to Ukraine before this year is even over.
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Russia, the US and the UK gave Ukraine a security guarantee in 1994 when they gave up their nuclear weapons to Russia. Finland probably took note in February that it's neutrality agreement with Russia is worthless. Finland and Sweden would be more secure once they join NATO and would have a nuclear deterrent. The EU and the US are in a proxy war with Russia and it's one they need to win or it'll get much larger.
It was a security guarantee with a million outs and not worth the paper it was written on. And it was done in order for Ukraine to give up it's nukes for the US/Russia to destroy. Which obviously was a good thing, as the less nukes the better.
The US is in a proxy war with Russia. The EU isn't doing jackshit. They are still buying Russian gas and oil, today. Did the EU ban Russian oil & gas like the US? Is the EU giving Ukraine $50 billion just in the last 3 months like US is doing?
This is how the proxy war will end....Russia will be weakened and Ukraine will be completely and utterly destroyed and delve into chaos. That's how all proxy wars end. Libya says hi. Syria says hi. Afghanistan circa 1980s says hi.
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My thinking is that IF somehow Russia attacked Finland any time in the next decade or so, we'd be involved pretty quickly and probably directly anyway.
If Finland joins NATO and Russia attacks say Estonia or Romania, Finland would be treaty bound to attack Russia, in effect, Article 5.
(https://i.imgur.com/TpuA44n.png)
Russia can't even pull off an invasion successfully in Ukraine. This Ukraine thing is going to weaken them substantially. The idea that they'd be able to pull off an invasion of Finland or invasions of multiple countries simultaneously is hysterical. They do not have this capability.
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I didn't say they did, obviously, but joining NATO carries this risk. In some future, Russia might be able to attack a NATO country. And they do have nukes of course.
They could at some point "false flag" something in Estonia and claim ethnic Russians were being mistreated as a pretense. Those Baltic countries would be tough to defend.
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I didn't say they did, obviously, but joining NATO carries this risk. In some future, Russia might be able to attack a NATO country. And they do have nukes of course.
They could at some point "false flag" something in Estonia and claim ethnic Russians were being mistreated as a pretense. Those Baltic countries would be tough to defend.
the fact that they have a shitload of nukes and their considerable oil & gas resources are the only reason they are even a little bit of anything.
rest of their economy is a giant nothing and the rest of their military is kinda sad and pathetic....
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My point obviously is simply that I'm not sure what Finland gains by joining NATO, relative to the possible future danger.
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My point obviously is simply that I'm not sure what Finland gains by joining NATO, relative to the possible future danger.
I agree with you.
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Finland gets backed by powerful militaries with nuclear weapons. Finland does not have nuclear weapons.
It's easy to see what Finland gets.
We already saw what Russia does to non NATO countries without a nuclear arsenal.
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Finland gets backed by powerful militaries with nuclear weapons. Finland does not have nuclear weapons.
It's easy to see what Finland gets.
We already saw what Russia does to non NATO countries without a nuclear arsenal.
You're acting like it's a bunch of countries. It's two countries Russia share borders with that have deep and long historical ties to Russia/USSR. Russia's tensions/wars with Georgia and Ukraine did not escalate to boiling points until both countries decided they'd like to try and join NATO in 2008 and have stronger ties with the EU. US plotting a coup and overthrowing the democratically elected government of Ukraine in 2014 is what laid the ground and foundation which led to this shitshow today in Ukraine. This war isn't going on right now- if US had just stayed out and minded it's own business. Only a crazy person would think Russia would not react at all to the US trying to rip those countries out of Russia's sphere of influence.
Sweden nor Finland is in Russia's sphere of influence. Both countries are in the EU and have long been in the EU. There hasn't even been a whiff or hint that Russia was aggressive towards either country- and their warning to both countries not to join NATO just happened when....right now....when Russia has been at it's most vulnerable in decades- because it's got the entire West aligned against them and they are getting their asses kicked and bogged down in Ukraine.
US gave Ukraine security guarantees in '94 with tons of outs and aren't coming to their defense. US has given Ukraine a formal open ended invitation to NATO and said that they'll be a future member of NATO- and still nothing. Just pumping money and weapons into the country- doing some training of their forces- but no boots on the ground, no air support, no no fly zones, no drone bombings, no direct involvement.
NATO- which in reality is mostly just the US- really just needs to stay out. All the US ever does is make sh*t worse and waste US tax payer dollar by the truck load. Our federal gov't run deficits every year like it's going out of style and is $31 trillion in debt right now. Just invented $14 billion to give them over the last couple months- let's just invent another $33 billion and pull it out our ass to give away to Ukraine....and then in 3-4 months...we'll just invent and pull another $30-40 billion out of our ass to give to them. Hey why not! Let's just keep racking that debt up til it hits $100 trillion baby!
Russia does not have the capability to invade Sweden or Finland. They are getting their ass shown to the world by not being able to take Ukraine.
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Russia did invade Finland, but it was about 80 years ago. It didn't turn out that well for them then either.
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I'm not surprised this has largely left the news cycle. The "news" gets bored with things, usually, quickly, unless something astounding happens.
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Russia did invade Finland, but it was about 80 years ago. It didn't turn out that well for them then either.
Russia wasn't even technically a country 80 years ago. They were a state within the country of the Soviet Union.
And if you want to talk about what countries that no longer exist did 80 years ago, then let's have the discussion about Germany and the Third Reich....aside from only starting a couple World Wars they murdered 17+ million people all for the crime of being Jewish, Romani, Soviet (both civilian and PoW's), Polish, Serbian, Homosexual, Mentally & Physically disabled, Jevoah's Witness, and other "undesirables".
You could make a great case that Germany should've never have been allowed to form another country or government ever again or have a military ever again. Germans just like to kill things. It's in their blood. They ended the Roman Empire and pretty much started both World Wars and many of the wars of Europe. I'd rather they not re-arm.
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I'm not surprised this has largely left the news cycle. The "news" gets bored with things, usually, quickly, unless something astounding happens.
Elon Musk bought twitter and Roe v Wade likely being overturned happened....that's the main reason it's left the news cycle.
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Russia did invade Finland, but it was about 80 years ago. It didn't turn out that well for them then either.
I don't think it's wise to invade any place where the ground is ice.
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Russia's tensions/wars with Georgia and Ukraine did not escalate to boiling points until both countries decided they'd like to try and join NATO in 2008 and have stronger ties with the EU. US plotting a coup and overthrowing the democratically elected government of Ukraine in 2014 is what laid the ground and foundation which led to this shitshow today in Ukraine. This war isn't going on right now- if US had just stayed out and minded it's own business. Only a crazy person would think Russia would not react at all to the US trying to rip those countries out of Russia's sphere of influence.
Sweden nor Finland is in Russia's sphere of influence.
Russia does not have the capability to invade Sweden or Finland. They are getting their ass shown to the world by not being able to take Ukraine.
Ukraine will tell you that's complete BS. Their violent history with what is now Russia goes much further back than 2008.
Ukraine has been fighting them on and off for almost 400 years, dating back to when Russia was a Tsardom. They fought a war for their independence in the early 1900's, and had several conflicts with what is now Russia over that timeframe.
The history of Finland and Russia is the same. In fact, the Tsardom of Russia once included part of what is now Finland. They aren't in the Russian sphere of influence because of a lack of interest by Russia, they aren't in it because Finland has fought to stay out of it.
Sweden has a history of fighting Russia that dates back hundreds of years as well.
Yes, Russia is getting beat. However it's still in the realm of possibility that they consolidate power on the eastern front and secure eastern Ukraine.
St Petersburg, a very important strategic city to Russia, is only 250 miles to Finland. It is part of an area that Russia would love to secure because it provides a relatively easy road to St Petersburg and then on to Moscow (in the same fashion eastern Ukraine provides a very easy path to Moscow).
Putin wants an empire that rivals the enormous ones of the past.. It's that simple. He wants those countries. He wants the resources, and he wants an expanded western Russian border to secure 2 of his key cities.
An invasion of Finland, and possibly Sweden, is entirely possible at some point if Russia ever manages to secure Ukraine. They've done it before.
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Ukraine will tell you that's complete BS. Their violent history with what is now Russia goes much further back than 2008.
Ukraine has been fighting them on and off for almost 400 years, dating back to when Russia was a Tsardom. They fought a war for their independence in the early 1900's, and had several conflicts with what is now Russia over that timeframe.
The history of Finland and Russia is the same. In fact, the Tsardom of Russia once included part of what is now Finland. They aren't in the Russian sphere of influence because of a lack of interest by Russia, they aren't in it because Finland has fought to stay out of it.
Sweden has a history of fighting Russia that dates back hundreds of years as well.
Yes, Russia is getting beat. However it's still in the realm of possibility that they consolidate power on the eastern front and secure eastern Ukraine.
St Petersburg, a very important strategic city to Russia, is only 250 miles to Finland. It is part of an area that Russia would love to secure because it provides a relatively easy road to St Petersburg and then on to Moscow (in the same fashion eastern Ukraine provides a very easy path to Moscow).
Putin wants an empire that rivals the enormous ones of the past.. It's that simple. He wants those countries. He wants the resources, and he wants an expanded western Russian border to secure 2 of his key cities.
An invasion of Finland, and possibly Sweden, is entirely possible at some point if Russia ever manages to secure Ukraine. They've done it before.
Fantastical story tales, but where is the evidence of this? Where is it? Where is the evidence he wants Sweden and Finland to be his. Putin isn't some great conquerer like Alexander the Great- dude is getting his ass spanked in the Ukraine right now- nor is he likely to live that much longer. Putin is 70 years old. There have been reports out of Russia- that Putin has cancer, and it's severe enough that he needs to have surgery to have tumors removed- and that he has drawn up plans to transfer power temporarily. There have been whispers for a couple years now that Putin is sick.
It's pretty simple....Russia issued no warnings to Finland or Sweden about NATO until when? Right now, recently, when both countries have decided to go ahead and start flirting with NATO. It's pretty f**king easy to see why Russia would not want NATO anywhere near them. You just said it....St Petersburg is only 250 miles to Finland. They don't want NATO to have a footprint or NATO to have any bases anywhere near them. Can't blame them. Who can?
Any Russian leader would perceive NATO on their doorstep as a threat. Yelstin perceived it as a threat as well. The declassified records of his conversations with Clinton prove this. He was in zero position to do anything however, as Russia's economy and military was literally in shambles under Yeltsin as he was an ineffective leader and a complete drunk, whose entire grip on power in Russia was largely propped up by and dependent on the Clinton administration- he was basically a puppet.
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PROVIDENCE
A Just War-Cold War Response to Nuclear Blackmail
By J. Daryl Charles on April 29, 2022
On April 20, Vladimir Putin presided over the test launch of a nuclear-capacity intercontinental ballistic missile. The implications of the event, he warned, should cause Moscow’s enemies who represent outside threats to “think twice.” This, of course, is Putin’s latest use of the nuclear threat. At the beginning of the war against Ukraine, he warned of “the likes of which you [the United States and NATO] have never seen in history,” should Western aid to Ukrainian resistance emerge. On April 16, Putin issued a new warning of “unpredictable consequences,” following US President Joe Biden’s commitment of $800 million of military hardware to Ukraine, should the US and NATO continue to arm Ukraine. This threat followed on the heels of an announcement by Dmitry Medvedev, a senior member of Russia’s security council, that Russia will be forced to strengthen its nuclear forces in the Baltics should Finland and Sweden join NATO (which both have been deliberating).
These warnings constitute a pattern of the Kremlin’s nuclear sabre rattling that is aimed at deterring Western military assistance to Ukraine. Putin’s rhetoric is intended to communicate that there is no stopping him and that any such attempts will result in the unthinkable. How might the West (i.e., the US and other NATO members) respond? Most importantly, how should they respond? Can Putin be stopped by relatively free nations? And should he?
As a recent former White House national security advisor has observed in recent days, it is utterly unthinkable—indeed, doubly unthinkable—that a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council would resort to nuclear blackmail in its attempt to conquer another nation. Yet at the same time, the use of the inconceivable is wholly consistent with totalitarian regimes. Putin is committed to the war’s “escalation,” which is a euphemism for catastrophic and unspeakable slaughter. Ukraine’s valiant resistance against slaughter and tyranny thus far only increases Putin’s resolve to subjugate this people group and pour out his vindictive wrath.
As the war in Ukraine demonstrates, gone in our day is any semblance of world order and international security. Since the commencement of the war, Russian forces have perpetrated everything that international security institutions and declarations since the end of World War II were designed to prevent. In this light, it is incumbent on the West, with the US in leadership, to spell out to Moscow, difficult as this is for Western nations in general, that we will not tolerate the Russian campaign of slaughter and annihilation and that we will deter proportionately. We will not acquiesce to evil and permit Moscow to reassert Russian imperialism in a manner that resurrects the terror and horrors of Soviet tyranny.
Against the fears of many, both classical just war and Cold War thinking require that we retaliate not in kind or with a view of total destruction but proportionately to the threat. After all, this is the basic premise of “criminal justice”—in any context. Justice, which is non-fluid and universal in its character, requires a proportionate response, for the common good of all. One can only imagine the fear and chaos unleashed in our neighborhoods, communities, and cities if police and law-enforcement agencies were to throw up their hands in consternation and helplessness when and where confronted by the unleashing in our communities of injustice and horrendous evil at the hands of the lawless.
As The Economist rightly noted last weekend, if Russia wishes to impose its brutal vision on its neighbor, then that is “everybody’s business,” and not simply Ukraine’s. What exactly is at stake in Ukraine, after all? First of all, let us identify with 44 million people who call themselves Ukrainian. Remarkably, it is estimated that nearly 70 percent of the nation claims some sort of allegiance to the Christian faith; such numbers are almost unheard of in our world today. But the religious character of the Ukrainian population aside, the geopolitical significance of the unjust war being waged and raged against Ukraine is monumental and thus needs clarifying. This is a nation whose integrity, freedom, and sovereignty were affirmed by the US, United Kingdom, Russia, and Ukraine in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. Where is the authority—and the moral backbone—to back and enforce this declaration by Western nations and Russia itself? Alas, it is non-existent. That is deeply troubling. Not only is this a moral abdication of our obligations to the community of nations and to Ukraine specifically, but it is also a denial of fundamental human rights. Moreover, it is tragic that in 2008 Germany and France blocked Ukraine’s accession to NATO; Putin, of course, has wasted little time in ensuring that Kyiv’s joining the alliance does not happen.
Not only at stake is the fate of almost 50 million innocent people whose integrity as a nation was promised, but a view of the world—a “worldview” and a world order—is at stake as well. In the vision of a revamped Russian empire—whose loss in 1989 Putin declared to be “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the twentieth century”—totalitarian tyranny, not an acknowledgment of basic human freedoms, becomes the norm. Thereby, not only is the West to be renounced, but smaller nations are to be subjugated, and without resistance. For Putin, then, the stakes in Ukraine are infinitely great. China, of course, is watching.
The West simply cannot continue hoping for any sort of “negotiated peace” in Ukraine; we have passed the point of no return. Putin has crossed the Rubicon, and the costs will be catastrophic and unspeakable. Putin’s goal, much like Joseph Stalin’s in the 1930s, is to eradicate the identity of the Ukrainians as a sovereign people and to ensure that Ukraine does not become part of any Western alliance, which itself through Russian eyes is a reminder of the Cold War debacle.
Off the battlefield, the West at the moment is losing the war of ideas and moral reasoning. We are so morally obtuse that we have difficulty distinguishing between a “just” and “unjust” war; even worse, we are reticent to defend those who are hopelessly caught in the demonic throes of an unjust war and genocide. As further evidence of this “losing battle,” just consider the demoralizing effect of the United Nations vote last week, in which 24 of 141 member nations voted not to remove Russia from the UN’s Human Rights Council and, more significantly, 58 of those 141 abstained from voting.
These stunning results only embolden the Russian dictator to do the unthinkable. But then we should not be surprised, given Putin’s formal agreement with Xi Jinping at the opening of the Winter Olympics in China in early February. In that agreement, the two dictators announced that there are “no limits” and that there is nothing “forbidden” in their fundamental and future unity. Both are committed to restructuring the post-Cold War geopolitical order. In Ukraine, the “forbidden” has been a recurring demonic pattern since the war’s beginning. And the recently appointed new commander of Russian forces, Gen. Alexander Dvornikov—labeled by some as the real “Butcher of Baghdad” based on his brutal efficiency in Crimea, Chechnya, and Syria—is surely an ominous sign.
Ukraine’s remarkably heroic resistance up to this point is absolutely galling and reprehensible to Putin. Tragically, however, Ukrainians’ bravery alone will not end the war. It will take nothing less than the West’s steel-willed military deterrence to prevent unspeakable slaughter in the days and weeks ahead. Putin’s periodic nuclear threats confirm this, as his latest attempt at blackmail indicates: the US and NATO members must back off.
What are the options before us? They are essentially two. Either we deter Russian aggression, which means that we convince Putin that we will not tolerate his first-strike nuclear threats and be intimidated, or we passively acquiesce to nuclear blackmail and Russian butchery of a nation that was promised its integrity and sovereignty five years after the Cold War ended.
What escapes many in our day is that the West, to a large extent, deterred nuclear war as a result of its Cold War policies. For decades, nuclear deterrence by the West, which was predicated not on first-strike capability but first-strike deterrence, was successful in averting war, not precipitating it. Those deterrents must be put in place now. The West’s response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, as Ukraine’s Defense Minister Aleksii Reznikov in recent days noted, has been too slow; the need is immediate. Time is running out. The aggressor needs irreversible punishment and deterrence. Russia has proven itself to be a terrorist state, and Putin will not stop. If Putin is successful in Ukraine, the result will be global chaos and confusion, in addition to unspeakable suffering and bloodshed in Ukraine that results in the annihilation and enslavement of a people group.
Can the West, with the US providing leadership, bring itself to ensuring Ukraine that her cause is just and winnable? Will we help defend Ukraine rather than simply make pronouncements from afar? Or will we shrink back—out of fear and intimidation—from a just response to cataclysmic evil, an evil that will set in motion unprecedented global chaos? The only strategy of preventing untold—and unspeakably tragic—suffering in the days ahead is to deter and prevent Putin militarily, so that Russian forces do not prolong mass suffering (which they will) and Putin does not employ nuclear blackmail (as he is doing and will continue to do).
J. Daryl Charles, PhD, is the Acton Institute Affiliated Scholar in Theology & Ethics, a contributing editor to Providence: A Journal of Christianity and American Foreign Policy, and an affiliate scholar of the John Jay Institute. He is author, co-author, editor, or co-editor of eighteen books, including Natural Law and Religious Freedom (Routledge, 2018), (with David D. Corey) The Just War Tradition: An Introduction (ISI Books 2012), (with David B. Capes) Thriving in Babylon (Pickwick, 2011), Retrieving the Natural Law: A Return to Moral First Things (Eerdmans, 2008), and most recently, (with Mark David Hall) America’s Wars and the Just War Tradition: A History of U.S. Conflicts (University of Notre Dame Press, 2019) and Wisdom’s Work: Essays on Ethics, Vocation, and Cultural Engagement (Acton Institute Press, 2019). Charles is currently co-editor of the recently translated Common Grace series by Abraham Kuyper, part of a twelve-volume Abraham Kuyper Collected Works in Public Theology series being produced by the Acton Institute.
Charles has taught at Taylor University and Union University, served as director of the Bryan Institute for Critical Thought & Practice, was a 2013–14 visiting professor in the honors program at Berry College, served as a 2007–08 William B. Simon visiting fellow in religion and public life at the James Madison Program, Princeton University, as well as the 2003–04 visiting fellow of the Institute for Faith & Learning, Baylor University. The focus of Charles’ research and writing is religion and society, Christian social ethics, the just war tradition, and the natural law. His work has been published in a wide array of both scholarly and popular journals, including First Things, Pro Ecclesia, Touchstone, Journal of Church and State, National Catholic Bioethics Quarterly, Journal of Religious Ethics, Books and Culture, Cultural Encounters, Philosophia Christi, The Weekly Standard, Christian Scholar’s Review, and Christianity Today. Prior to entering the university classroom, Charles did public-policy work in criminal justice in Washington, DC.
LINKS (https://providencemag.com/2022/04/a-just-war-cold-war-response-to-nuclear-blackmail/)
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I'm not so sure China would go all in with Vlad when financially/politically they've entered a new era sans their Bat fixation.Not sure they'd be willing to flush their best prospects they've had because Vlad feels like playing bully.Risk all that when so many have their fingers on a Nuclear trigger.
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Russia wasn't even technically a country 80 years ago. They were a state within the country of the Soviet Union.
And if you want to talk about what countries that no longer exist did 80 years ago, then let's have the discussion about Germany and the Third Reich....aside from only starting a couple World Wars they murdered 17+ million people all for the crime of being Jewish, Romani, Soviet (both civilian and PoW's), Polish, Serbian, Homosexual, Mentally & Physically disabled, Jevoah's Witness, and other "undesirables".
You could make a great case that Germany should've never have been allowed to form another country or government ever again or have a military ever again. Germans just like to kill things. It's in their blood. They ended the Roman Empire and pretty much started both World Wars and many of the wars of Europe. I'd rather they not re-arm.
My blood is 100 percent German. Never killed anyone, nor is it my desire. Your brush is too broad here.
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I'm not so sure China would go all in with Vlad when financially/politically they've entered a new era sans their Bat fixation.Not sure they'd be willing to flush their best prospects they've had because Vlad feels like playing bully.Risk all that when so many have their fingers on a Nuclear trigger.
The Chinese are bargain hunting. They know that if they're the only ones buying or selling with the rooskies, they can dictate the price and terms.
As for Finland, their application to NATO means that they don't think that a future Russian government will be anything other than tinhorn dictatorship, even when Vlad is dead or incapacitated.
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Exactly 847 our michigan coorespondent isn't as dialed in as he wants us to believe.WW1 caused WW2,and WW1 was a continuation of old alliances and hostilities.Our old friends the English get off scott free for the 1st war.Breaking 2 international laws using their Naval Prowess to blockade northern Germany,causing starvation-malnourishment and collapsed trade with neutral countries around them.They also cut the transatlantic telegraph line to the USA so the Kaiser couldn't comminicate directly with Washington,so we recieved John Bull's version of everything and a lot of Bull it was.The white washed proper English version of it.Of course we know that the English Crown whose empire that the sun never set on didn't have ulterior motives right?
After the war parts of Germany were carved up to France in the west ,Poland in the East and and parts to the Czech Republic in the South.Then for good measure those toffee nosed bastards on their aritocratic estates - who twice tried to subjugate us(USA) gave Germany the bill for the whole thing.They starved the gerries took their land then gave them the bill - in a war Germany didn't start. But since German language sounds like draft horses munching their cud we took the smooth chattering English inbreds side. This is what infuriated the population there,of course the masses couldn't know to the extent that Hitler would go in his depraved imagination but that is another conversation
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The Chinese are bargain hunting. They know that if they're the only ones buying or selling with the rooskies, they can dictate the price and terms.
As for Finland, their application to NATO means that they don't think that a future Russian government will be anything other than tinhorn dictatorship, even when Vlad is dead or incapacitated.
thinking about this more, this is probably true. There's no guarantee who comes after Putin will be any better. He might actually be worse.
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A Russian soldier ran up to a nun. Out of breath he asked, "Please, may I hide under your skirt, I'll explain later."
The nun agreed. A moment later two military police ran up and asked, "Sister, have you seen a soldier?"
The nun replied, "He went that way."
After the military police ran off, the soldier crawled out from under her skirt and said, "I can't thank you enough Sister. You see, I don't want to go to Ukraine."
The nun said, "I understand completely."
The soldier added, "I hope I'm not rude, but you have a great pair of legs!"
The nun replied, "If you had looked a little higher, you would've seen a great pair of balls. I don't want to go to Ukraine either."
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May 9 is a big day in Russia, usually, end of the WW 2 thing, some concern Putin will make some large announcement.
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I know what I'd like him to announce
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That he's dead?
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May 9 is a big day in Russia, usually, end of the WW 2 thing, some concern Putin will make some large announcement.
would be really nice if he's announcing the end of the war and they've made an agreement with Ukraine to pull out and end the hostilities. one can dream.
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That he's dead?
Life expectancy for males in Russia is 73, and dude is 70 years old and apparently has cancer and is undergoing surgery to remove tumors or something like that. he's probably not got much longer left.
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Your dream may come true
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Life expectancy at age 70 goes a while longer than life expectancy at birth when looking at average year of demise.
At birth, it might be 73, but obviously for a 75 year old it's more like 80. It's always a positive figure even if you're 110.
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that's not what anyone wants to hear!
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that's not what anyone wants to hear!
I think the world would be A OK without Vladimir Putin in it.
I do wonder/fear if what comes after him is worse. There's no guarantee that whoever rules Russia after him will be better. Next man up could actually be worse. Fingers crossed it's someone less crazy.
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disagree with him on quite a bit, but Ryan Grim over at The Intercept is one of the few actual reporters we still have left in the US. Leaks from Ukraine press that "the West" (aka the US, it's lapdog the UK, and it's little gun club NATO) isn't willing to accept a peace deal even if Ukraine wants one.
US in a full out proxy war with Russia and essentially using Ukraine to "bleed 'em dry!".
https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1523059972749561856?s=20&t=XY752wv6-Q3FUszG5VGIGQ
https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1523047697451786240?s=20&t=XY752wv6-Q3FUszG5VGIGQ
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Why would Ukraine be influenced by something NATO is alleged to be wanting? Zelensky has stated his terms for peace, and they are very far from what Putin would come anywhere close to accepting, so the point seems moot as to who wants what. They will fight it out on this line if it takes all summer.
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Why would Ukraine be influenced by something NATO is alleged to be wanting? Zelensky has stated his terms for peace, and they are very far from what Putin would come anywhere close to accepting, so the point seems moot as to who wants what. They will fight it out on this line if it takes all summer.
you can't be this naive, Kay.
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I don't find these "reports" of NATO blocking some peace agreement as being sensible nor probable, just rumor and innuendo, click bait in effect.
Somebody's second cousin's wife know a guy who heard from a policeman ....
Speaking of naive ...
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I tend to agree with CD on this
If Ukraine and Russia reached a peace agreement it would be huge news and there would not be much anyone could do to stop it
but currently they are far apart in there terms so anything else really does not matter
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I tend to agree with CD on this
If Ukraine and Russia reached a peace agreement it would be huge news and there would not be much anyone could do to stop it
but currently they are far apart in there terms so anything else really does not matter
Ukraine has effectively been a US colony post 2014- when the US helped overthrow the democratically elected President and install a hand-picked puppet.
Ukraine is entirely dependent on the US and to a much lesser extent the US' bitch boy/lapdog the UK. There is literally nothing that happens inside Ukraine right now without the US being involved. The US is arming, training, and not to mention funding the entire country. US gave them $14 billion since March, is about to give them another $33 billion- some of which will go to keeping govt employees paid and the govt functioning. Pelosi was just there like not even a week ago.
And the bigger issue here is the US backed sanction regime. Russia has less incentive to end hostilities if the US and it's bitch boys like the UK don't stop trying to crush it with sanctions and bans. Ukraine can't make the US end the economic war. They can't make the US do anything- they are the ones who are in effect a colony of the US- not the other way around.
Pretty clear they want to use Ukraine to fight a proxy war for one goal: regime change.
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I don't find these "reports" of NATO blocking some peace agreement as being sensible nor probable, just rumor and innuendo, click bait in effect.
Somebody's second cousin's wife know a guy who heard from a policeman ....
Speaking of naive ...
Yeah, you're still being naive Kay.
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/05/5/7344206/
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Vladimir Putin could end the economic war tomorrow by quitting the ground war. This whole thing started at his discrection, and likewise this whole thing can end at his discrection.
Even if the Kremlin throws in the towel tomorrow, the damage has already been done.
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Fred Kagan is from the dynastic neo-con Kagan clan- and is the brother-in law of high ranking US govt bureaucrat Victoria Nuland- who worked under the Bush II, Obama, and now Biden administrations- and helped engineer the 2014 coup in Ukraine and has been deeply involved inside Ukraine as of late as she is the fourth highest ranking official in the entire US state department.
Bill Kristol is - well he's just a scumbag that worked for Bush I and Bush II and is in general a giant piece of human filth that should be tried for war crimes for his role in pushing and leading the charge for this country to illegally invade Iraq- and was a right-wing nutjob neo-con who loved every war ever- who was a Republican his entire life until Donald Trump came a long and all of a sudden he's a "Resistance hero" and he's now openly a Democrat...weird.
they are saying the quite part out loud...
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1523306332165599237?s=20&t=G4T_M7zmNY0RWy2_oOCiuQ
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Vladimir Putin could end the economic war tomorrow by quitting the ground war. This whole thing started at his discrection, and likewise this whole thing can end at his discrection.
Even if the Kremlin throws in the towel tomorrow, the damage has already been done.
you haven't been paying attention. The US doesn't want any negotiation. They haven't since before this thing started. They want complete surrender and they want regime change. And they'll use Ukraine until that country is completely and utterly destroyed and every last Ukrainian is dead to get what they want.
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Nobody can block an agreement that doesn't exist.
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I'm trying to imagine the negotiators meeting and somehow coming to an agreement, only to find the US has said "Nope".
I'm failing at that. There is no agreement, they aren't even close to one.
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When this is the Russian negotiating position 63 days into a 3 day war, there isn't much to negotiate.
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1522920978275356675?t=5otT2YqWi1Bh-59MLGPohA&s=19
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The US sees “anecdotal reports” of Russian troops and “mid-grade officers at various levels, even up to the battalion level” refusing to obey orders to move forward in the new Donbas offensive (https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/15/europe/donbas-region-ukraine-war-russia-explainer-intl/index.html) in Ukraine, according to a senior US defense official.
The official said these officers “have either refused to obey orders or are not obeying them with the same measure of alacrity that you would expect an officer to obey.”
Russian forces have struggled with widespread morale problems since the beginning of the invasion, according to this official, which is just one of numerous problems that has plagued the Russian military during this war.
Russian forces are also still facing logistics issues that are slowing their progress, according to the official.
If true, this could spread like wildfire. IF. I can see the rumor getting around and commanders finding reasons not to attack as ordered, creating some excuses for lack of movement, or perhaps letting it be known they shouldn't risk anything in any movement. And this could be false information being spread by NATO to try and create this condition on the ground.
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The "Christmas Truce" in WW I almost ended the war, in a way, in 1914. Troops on both sides fraternized between the lines in decent numbers. This sort of thing could be more effective when both sides speak the same language. I could see some cross the line communications where Russians inform Ukrainians they are ordered to attack "X" with artillery so clear out and then not follow up. The engaged soldiers could start communicating and working out "a deal deal".
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(https://i.imgur.com/Vpaz2xJ.png)
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it really doesn't even pass through that building
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Ukraine's official accounts showing the striking of a second Russian vessel. Looks like it was hit with a missile from a drone, both of which certainly provided through foreign aid.
https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1522897994701549573
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Ukraine does have its own anti-ship missiles developed off a Russian version.
R-360 Neptune (Ukrainian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_language): Р-360 «Нептун», romanized (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Ukrainian): R-360 "Neptun") is a Ukrainian anti-ship (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ship_missile) cruise missile (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_missile) developed by the Luch Design Bureau (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luch_Design_Bureau).
Neptune's design is based on the Soviet Kh-35 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-35) anti-ship missile, with substantially improved range and electronics.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-360_Neptune#cite_note-2) The system requirement was for a single missile to defeat surface warships and transport vessels with a displacement of up to 5,000 tons, either in convoys or moving individually.
The system entered service with the Ukrainian Navy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Navy) in March 2021.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-360_Neptune#cite_note-first-neptune-cruise-missile-3)
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https://mobile.twitter.com/anders_aslund/status/1523951325226192899
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Live updates: Latest news on Russia and the war in Ukraine (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/11/russia-ukraine-crisis-putin-preparing-for-a-long-war-spy-chief-says.html)
UK signs security agreement with Sweden. The other report is that Ukraine appears to be pushing Russian forces back around Kharkiv (maybe). Ukraine just might be able to force Russia back some, unless Russia really is "repositioning".
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https://mobile.twitter.com/anders_aslund/status/1523951325226192899
Ukraine has changed it's war aims or has it's colonial master changed it for them? I'm guessing it's the latter.
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Nobody can block an agreement that doesn't exist.
who said anyone is blocking an agreement? there can't be an agreement until there is negotiations. pretty clear DC has been against negotiation of any kind since before the war started. that's just par for the course....because....
(https://mpd-biblio-covers.imgix.net/9781427202239.jpg?w=300)
we make peace with our enemies....not our friends....time to make peace...before this thing spills over into a f**king world war and we all die.
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(https://i.imgur.com/Vpaz2xJ.png)
it's absolutely sickening and disgusting to be completely frank with you.
Biden admin was asking for an additional $33 billion, so what does Pelosi and the House do? They approve a $40 billion package- $7 billion more than Biden was even asking for- and not a single Dem voted NO- not even the phony "squad" - and of course the Senate will surely agree to this package and approve it in record time. This all happened days after Congress approved and then Biden revived a WWII era "lend-lease" weapons transfer program to "lend" weapons to Ukraine.
US has already sent $14 billion aid package to Ukraine since March. Over 60% of this new $40 billion will be used on military spending/weapons. Essentially just a welfare handout for Raytheon & Friends. Pelosi has the nerve to say bullsh*t in a speech on the floor about feeding people and spouts some Matthews proverbs bullshit- framing it like this package is going for mostly food support- which is a joke. It's not. Very small part of this package is going to help with food supplies. Vast majority is going to WAR and the other largest chunk is going to pay pensions and govt salaries OF ANOTHER COUNTRY- which just also happens to be one of the most corrupt govts on planet earth. There is ZERO percent chance a chunk of this "aid" money isn't getting stolen. Zero.
This funding runs out end of fiscal year- which means come Oct., Biden admin will come running back with their hands out- and they'll get more. March to Sept of this year alone- US will have given $54 billion in aid- most of it military spending. Russia spends about $65 billion for an entire year on defense. The money that the US will give them before this year is over will far exceed that.
Food and supply shortages- half the country here can't even get food for their babies- like we're a 3rd world f***king country- and the govt is doing nothing about it- but hey let's just invent a new $40 billion to add to the $14 billion we already gave another country. It's a joke. That 2Pac lyric is SO true. When it rains and pours, they got money for wars, but can't feed the poor.
Always reminded of this video of Julian Assange....
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1427929346262642688?s=20&t=fSBmJB-5ioKOAdQuQKi--g
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Ukraine's official accounts showing the striking of a second Russian vessel. Looks like it was hit with a missile from a drone, both of which certainly provided through foreign aid.
https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1522897994701549573
100% provided by foreign aid. And reports in NY Times and Washington Post has leaked from military and intelligence officers that the US has been directly involved in a lot of these strikes on Russia. US has been far more deeply involved in this war than we were/are being lead to believe.
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I'm trying to imagine the negotiators meeting and somehow coming to an agreement, only to find the US has said "Nope".
I'm failing at that. There is no agreement, they aren't even close to one.
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1524516139434401794?s=20&t=fSBmJB-5ioKOAdQuQKi--g
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all it's really been about in US eyes since day one...bleed Russia dry and regime change....
https://twitter.com/ShantMM/status/1524464282808643584?s=20&t=kBR-BSBKfDVzHMOGFdul4w
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https://twitter.com/freddiesayers/status/1524386598690959361?s=20&t=fSBmJB-5ioKOAdQuQKi--g
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who said anyone is blocking an agreement? there can't be an agreement until there is negotiations. pretty clear DC has been against negotiation of any kind since before the war started. that's just par for the course....because....
Are you claiming there have been no negotiations because the US has blocked even holding them?
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Russia: talks with Ukraine continue but not ready for in-person meeting | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-negotiator-says-peace-talks-with-ukraine-are-ongoing-ifax-2022-05-09/)
I can't see enough common ground here to find a negotiated settlement. What would one comprise that would be acceptable to both sides? They seem very far apart to me. Ergo, the "decision" will await further conflict and outcomes. There may not be one for a long time. Perhaps Putin leaves office and the FNG decides enough is enough and quits?
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Russian President Vladimir Putin intended to seize all of Ukraine after beginning his unprovoked invasion, according to a Ukrainian official citing discovered documents.
The director of Ukraine's State Bureau of Investigation — basing his assertions on documents left behind by fleeing Russian soldiers — used Telegram (https://t.me/s/DBRgovua/2481) on Wednesday to convey the message.
"[Found were] important documents of soldiers of the Russian Federation's Armed Forces that give a clear understanding that Russia was preparing to seize all the territory of Ukraine," Oleksiy Sukhachev said in the statement.
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As previously posted here, the Kremlin's opening position on cease-fire negotiations was the posting of Russian troops on the Ukraine-Poland border. Riiiiiiight.
The best deals are ones that:
A) are negotiated out of sight with all parties having a de facto gag order
B) both sides walk away thinking they got robbed
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I don't see any possible negotiated peace at this point, it's ridiculous to claim the US has somehow prevented them from happening. They will get to a cease fire at some point, probably to be broken quickly. Ukraine wants its territory back, Russia doesn't want that to be where this ends at all.
They are FAR apart.
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I don't see any possible negotiated peace at this point, it's ridiculous to claim the US has somehow prevented them from happening. They will get to a cease fire at some point, probably to be broken quickly. Ukraine wants its territory back, Russia doesn't want that to be where this ends at all.
They are FAR apart.
per usual, you are not paying attention. head in the sand. must be nice. ignorance is bliss.
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As previously posted here, the Kremlin's opening position on cease-fire negotiations was the posting of Russian troops on the Ukraine-Poland border. Riiiiiiight.
The best deals are ones that:
A) are negotiated out of sight with all parties having a de facto gag order
B) both sides walk away thinking they got robbed
it's pretty simple, the Russians have long viewed the NATO/Ukraine issue, the overthrow of Ukraine's govt in 2014 and the anti-Russian/US puppet govt that followed, and the fighting in the Donbas which started in 2014 (it didn't start today) as existential. It all means a HELL OF A LOT more to them than it does to the US- a declining imperial superpower which is halfway around the world on the other end of the planet 10,000 miles away from either of these countries. Russia shares an incredibly important and strategic impossible to defend land border of oh only, 1,400-1,500 miles with Ukraine- Ukraine was a part of Russia/USSR for a very long time before the fall of the USSR, Russia shares a commonality/history with Ukraine and the people of Ukraine dating back to the Kievan Rus' federation, anywhere from 20-25% of Ukraine's population is ethnically Russian, most of the population of the country speaks Russian as a 1st or 2nd language, and the two countries share deep cultural, economic, and even familial ties with one another and have for centuries. So yeah....Ukraine is pretty god damn important for a shitload of reasons to them- and literally not important to the US at all. Like whatsoever at all. Even Obama admitted this back in an interview in The Atlantic when he was pressed on why he refused to send lethal arms to Ukraine- despite his cabinet and the entire war machine in DC pushing him to do so. As much as I disliked the guy- it's sad to say- he was probably the last intelligent President we've had, and the scary thing is it'll probably be awhile before we have one even half as sharp. Russians will double down and dig in, they are not giving up on Ukraine just because the Americans are backing up the brinks truck to Ukraine- it's far too important to them.
All the US is doing by continuing to fund a proxy war to the tune of tens of billions of dollars, revive a WWII era lend-lease arms program, train Ukrainian special forces, and having direct involvement in targeting and missile strikes on Russia is doing is ensuring this war will never end anytime soon, ensuring there will be more death and destruction, and that Ukraine will continue to get absolutely leveled to the ground. And for what?
US and it's lapdog bitch boy joke of a country UK have been blocking any possible pathway for negotiations and potential peace, and now the US has Ukraine's head full having them change the stated war aims and talking about retaking Crimea.
This will lead nowhere but to Putin becoming more powerful inside of Russia and Ukraine being absolutely and completely leveled and blown to pieces and hundreds of thousands more dead and every city in that country looking like Detroit.
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US and it's lapdog bitch boy joke of a country UK have been blocking any possible pathway for negotiations and potential peace, and now the US has Ukraine's head full having them change the stated war aims and talking about retaking Crimea.
This will lead nowhere but to Putin becoming more powerful inside of Russia and Ukraine being absolutely and completely leveled and blown to pieces and hundreds of thousands more dead and every city in that country looking like Detroit.
Haven't you ever played the board game Risk?
This is a pretty standard tactic. Encourage two countries to concentrate on each other and wipe out each other's forces while subtly fortifying yours in the process. Then, by the time you are ready to begin your campaign against them, they do not have the forces available to resist your blitzkrieg through their territory.
Yeah, we are sending the Ukraine billions in weapons / equipment, but that is a drop in the bucket compared to the war chest / supplies we have available. We are also accomplishing a crap load of R&D field testing in this proxy war.
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They have had negotiations, clearly, and it is also clear both sides are far apart. The US has nothing to do with that fact.
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this $40 billion package the House kicked over to the Senate is even worse than I thought....Rand Paul blocked it from going through. For now. The bill had literally zero accountability for where this money or weapons were going or how it'd be spent. Rand Paul simply wanted provisions in the bill which called for an IG to account for every penny sent and he wanted someone else then the President to have sole discretion over what weapons go where and where the money is going. Bill was a piece of trash, literally just blindly handing money and weapons out with zero oversight. This bill also paved the way for US to start transitioning from solely handing out "defensive weapons" and to start handing out "offensive weapons" to Ukraine.
Crazy how not a single Dem is even a tiny little bit against it. Insane actually. Not even the "Squad"- or Fraud Squad as they are accurately depicted as. There is no anti-war faction of American politics anymore.
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1525158276563881987?s=20&t=XSjKYziZa9V2kMIu7JxY5A
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1525159420442845185?s=20&t=XSjKYziZa9V2kMIu7JxY5A
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Dems have literally lost the plot. They are Bush-Cheney neo-cons in disguise. Diet Republicans, really.
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1525162581203222528?s=20&t=XSjKYziZa9V2kMIu7JxY5A
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(https://defence-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/280659934_5225870627475446_4306991888629978569_n.jpg)
The Serhiy Prytula volunteer center has reported that it develop a new version of the Petliura buggy adding LUCH’s Corsar anti-tank missiles to blast Russian armor.
Corsar is a Ukrainian-made man-portable anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) intended for use against main battle tanks. It is intended to destroy stationary and moving modern armoured targets and other objects with combined, carried or monolithic armour, including ERA (explosive reactive armour), as well as pinpoint targets such as weapon emplacements, a tank in a trench, light-armoured objects and helicopters.
This laser-guided missile has a range of 100 to 2 500 m. Missiles are available with tandem HEAT and thermobaric warheads. A tandem HEAT warhead penetrates up to 550 mm behind explosive reactive armor.
[img width=955 height=801 title=280950776_5168489983197826_3528105247712974257_n]https://defence-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/280950776_5168489983197826_3528105247712974257_n-1068x801.jpg[/img]
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Dems have literally lost the plot. They are Bush-Cheney neo-cons in disguise. Diet Republicans, really.
If GOD doesn't wipe out Washington DC and Wall Street he'll have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah
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(https://i.imgur.com/BiU7M4Q.png)
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Now Putin keeps threatening Poland and Finland
sounds kinda Hitleresque to me
whats funny is Ukraine is kicking his ass while he makes these threats
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Commentators have been divided on whether Russian president Vladimir Putin would ever go so far as to use these weapons, with some calling them "empty threats," while others saying the risk is real if he feels backed into a corner.
But what would happen if a bomb detonated? What would be the immediate impact and how far would the radiation zone extend?
Alex Wellerstein, a historian of nuclear weapons, who is an associate professor at the Stevens Institute of Technology, in Hoboken, New Jersey, created a nuclear bomb simulator to show just that.
The NUKEMAP is designed to show the effect of a nuclear detonation in any given location across the globe. It consists of a map in which users can select a location and model the local impacts of a blast, while accounting for various factors, such as the power of the weapon and whether or not it detonates on (or near) the surface or up in the air.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nuclear-bomb-blast-map-shows-what-would-happen-if-one-detonated-near-you/ar-AAXkL1e?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=7f7f8774fd8848a7856c5a611ac29a52&fullscreen=true#image=2 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nuclear-bomb-blast-map-shows-what-would-happen-if-one-detonated-near-you/ar-AAXkL1e?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=7f7f8774fd8848a7856c5a611ac29a52&fullscreen=true#image=2)
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Russo-Ukrainian war has seen numerous anti-tank operations, especially in open areas. The defenders have been taken advantage of their portable anti-tank systems, like the US-made Javelin missiles. But, on the other side, Russia uses its aerial superiority by deploying its advanced and lethal attack helicopters. The most powerful of the Russian military, Kamov Ka-52 Alligator (Hokum-B) Mil Mi-28N (Havoc) are some of the worst nightmares of the Ukrainian armored units. To determine which is better, we first need to compare them in the most important categories.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ka-52-vs-mi-28n-which-is-the-most-powerful-attack-helicopter-of-the-war/ar-AAXluO7?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=d339a74af407479f9c8e04826816ba4e (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ka-52-vs-mi-28n-which-is-the-most-powerful-attack-helicopter-of-the-war/ar-AAXluO7?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=d339a74af407479f9c8e04826816ba4e)
(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAXlGQc.img?w=768&h=407&m=6)
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Fearless is the new CD
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Commentators have been divided on whether Russian president Vladimir Putin would ever go so far as to use these weapons, with some calling them "empty threats," while others saying the risk is real if he feels backed into a corner.
But what would happen if a bomb detonated? What would be the immediate impact and how far would the radiation zone extend?
Alex Wellerstein, a historian of nuclear weapons, who is an associate professor at the Stevens Institute of Technology, in Hoboken, New Jersey, created a nuclear bomb simulator to show just that.
The NUKEMAP is designed to show the effect of a nuclear detonation in any given location across the globe. It consists of a map in which users can select a location and model the local impacts of a blast, while accounting for various factors, such as the power of the weapon and whether or not it detonates on (or near) the surface or up in the air.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nuclear-bomb-blast-map-shows-what-would-happen-if-one-detonated-near-you/ar-AAXkL1e?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=7f7f8774fd8848a7856c5a611ac29a52&fullscreen=true#image=2 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nuclear-bomb-blast-map-shows-what-would-happen-if-one-detonated-near-you/ar-AAXkL1e?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=7f7f8774fd8848a7856c5a611ac29a52&fullscreen=true#image=2)
if a nuke with the equivalent yield of the USSR's Tsar Bomba exploded above New York City there would be 7.6 million fatalities and 4.2 million injuries. Holy. F***king. Shit. Humans need to get rid of all of these weapons. They should not exist.
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(https://preview.redd.it/vbfa44y9suz81.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=55cee92cd42290504605776afe7f13db0a29d50d)
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aZoV tOtAlLy NoT nAziS aNyMoRe....derrrpppp daaaah derrrrp.....
https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1526327384005287938?s=20&t=80kdH1oY-E8SSt_k0SP6Sg
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Erodgan doubles down, says Turkey will flat out block Finland or Sweden if they try to gain NATO membership.
Never in a million f***king years thought I'd say this, but thank god for that guy.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61472021