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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #11172 on: October 28, 2024, 09:25:51 AM »
How anyone thinks these are rational targets eludes me.



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Temp430

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #11173 on: October 28, 2024, 10:17:58 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on October 28, 2024, 09:25:51 AM
How anyone thinks these are rational targets eludes me.




I replaced two old incandescent flood lights with LED equivalents that use about 88% less juice.  Doing my part.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #11174 on: October 28, 2024, 10:33:10 AM »
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Gigem

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #11175 on: October 28, 2024, 10:47:31 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on October 28, 2024, 08:34:38 AM
The chart shows just how little has been done to reduce any of these over time.  The largest reductions happened when we had a recession (duh).  I see no reason to think any government actions in the US can change this trajectory significantly, it just can't happen for obvious reasons.  Now the various data centers supposedly are going to require a lot more electricity.


The amount of solar farms being built around here is staggering, just in and around my county alone.  Hundreds of acres, covered up with solar panels.  Ironic that a lot of the energy will go to "data centers" and bitcoin mining...
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Gigem

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #11176 on: October 28, 2024, 10:49:22 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on October 28, 2024, 10:33:10 AM

This right here is why I can't take climate change action seriously.  We are/will sacrifice our own country so China and build up theirs.  
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #11177 on: October 28, 2024, 10:49:45 AM »
When I see solar/wind farms being built, I wonder how much electricity they actually produce as compared to say a one megawatt nuclear power reactor. 

A solar PV facility must have an installed capacity of 3,300 MW and 5,400 MW to match a 1,000-MW nuclear facility's output, requiring between 45 and 75 square miles.[color=var(--IXoxUe)]Ju[/color]
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #11178 on: October 28, 2024, 10:51:57 AM »
Just off I-75in south Georgia is a "large" solar farm, it's about a mile long, quite a bit less deep.  Maybe they put it there for show.

A 49 square mile farm of course would be 7 miles long, and 7 mile deep.  
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Gigem

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #11179 on: October 28, 2024, 11:08:20 AM »
The thing about solar farms is that you don't need one "7 miles wide by 7 miles deep".  You can have one here that is 1 mile wide by 1 mile deep, and then another nearby, and several more here and there.  And they can be built anywhere, and they do not consume fuel or present hazards after they are built.  And you can probably build one in well under 5 years, and probably 1-2 years.  Whereas any nuke plant would probably take decades to permit, build, and commission, and multiple billions of dollars.  And it probably needs to be located remotely.  

I remember when they built the last Nuke plant in the US near Bay City, I had friends whose parents worked there building it.  Literally all through elementary and intermediate school, they were building it.  From the 70's thru the 80's.  I think it was started up around '88.  And this plant is literally in the middle of nowhere.  You have to go 30 miles from nowhere just to get there.  I'd bet it takes up much more than 49 square miles.  
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utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #11180 on: October 28, 2024, 11:14:44 AM »
All true, however-- the sun only shines during the day.

And a lot less wind at night too, typically. 

Storage is key.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #11181 on: October 28, 2024, 11:15:10 AM »
You'd need 49 farms 1 x 1 mile to be equial.  My point is it takes a lot of room for solar.  One might see what seems to be a massive solar farm that in fact is pretty insignificant.

The newest two power reactors that just opened recently are 34 miles south of Augusta and  18 miles from the small town of Waynesboro.  The land around the plant is farm land mostly, not unoccupied.  It did take forever and a lot of money to get the plants built.

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Gigem

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #11182 on: October 28, 2024, 11:18:17 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on October 28, 2024, 11:14:44 AM
All true, however-- the sun only shines during the day.

And a lot less wind at night too, typically.

Storage is key.
Yes it does, but I think that we have plenty of capacity at night, and not enough during the day.  If you look at the ERCOT site, you can track the power consumption, it almost always peaks during the day, and drops significantly at night.  
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utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #11183 on: October 28, 2024, 11:20:30 AM »
Quote from: Gigem on October 28, 2024, 11:18:17 AM
Yes it does, but I think that we have plenty of capacity at night, and not enough during the day.  If you look at the ERCOT site, you can track the power consumption, it almost always peaks during the day, and drops significantly at night. 
Yes, and if you remove fossil fuel generation during the daytime, the wind and solar we have aren't anywhere near enough to cover the difference.  And the demand will only increase over the next several decades.

And Texas is among the best with respect to renewables, in other regions it's far far worse.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #11184 on: October 28, 2024, 11:22:04 AM »
Usually night is when we have a surplus.  Hydro storage is one way to compensate for that.

We will need base load that is reliable and consistent unless storage really ups its game.

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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #11185 on: October 28, 2024, 11:22:30 AM »
Quote from: Gigem on October 28, 2024, 11:08:20 AM
The thing about solar farms is that you don't need one "7 miles wide by 7 miles deep".  You can have one here that is 1 mile wide by 1 mile deep, and then another nearby, and several more here and there.  And they can be built anywhere, and they do not consume fuel or present hazards after they are built.  And you can probably build one in well under 5 years, and probably 1-2 years.  Whereas any nuke plant would probably take decades to permit, build, and commission, and multiple billions of dollars.  And it probably needs to be located remotely. 

I remember when they built the last Nuke plant in the US near Bay City, I had friends whose parents worked there building it.  Literally all through elementary and intermediate school, they were building it.  From the 70's thru the 80's.  I think it was started up around '88.  And this plant is literally in the middle of nowhere.  You have to go 30 miles from nowhere just to get there.  I'd bet it takes up much more than 49 square miles. 
Not just anywhere, at least when I was working on them up until a few years ago.

The FAA needs to approve as they interfere with pilots being able to see because of reflection.
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