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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10962 on: October 04, 2024, 08:31:14 AM »
I go outside and take a walk when the world seems so scary. Maybe get a nice sandwich. 

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10963 on: October 04, 2024, 08:36:01 AM »
if there's no sense in coming up with a plan... to solve a problem

then there's even less sense in whining about a problem or wring hangs and gnashing teeth and throwing money at the problem or politicizing a problem or even pointing out there is a problem

many folks have spent a helluva lot of time and other resources figuring out that a problem exists

why not follow up with a plan?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10964 on: October 04, 2024, 08:49:58 AM »
My "plan" would first be to get realistic with the voters.  Politicians on the Left have been claiming if we spend all these billions the problem will get solved, otherwise we'll all drown.  Politicians on the Right have often claimed it's a nonissue, we should ignore it.

Neither, in my view, is accurate nor realistic.

This is why I'd never get any votes.

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10965 on: October 04, 2024, 08:54:09 AM »
well, that could be a plan with EVERY political issue
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10966 on: October 04, 2024, 08:55:33 AM »
I THINK some of my proposals would help solve, or at least reduce, some of our major problems, but for this one, well, the horses left the barn decades ago.

Politicians don't get elected by being realistic about things when realism is negative.

utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10967 on: October 04, 2024, 11:43:37 AM »
It's actually very easy to come up with a plan.  We know exactly what activities and industries contribute the most in generating pollution and greenhouse emissions.  We know the amounts per year that are produced by each of these industries.  We have models-- perhaps not great ones but they're all we have for now-- that tell us estimated impact on the climate from all of the above, so that we can calculate what reductions are necessary and in what time frame.

We have all of those things, which is more than enough to come up with a fact-based plan, today.  It would still depend on the accuracy of the models, but over time I believe the models will improve, so the outputs will improve, and we could course correct as better models and better data become available.

The problem is, when you actually DO the above-- when you calculate the actual costs of implementing the changes, and understand the actors that would need to engage heavily that have absolutely no desire to engage-- that's when you realize just how unrealistic it all is.  We can make all the laws we want in the US but we can't force other nations to follow suit and, if they don't, then the actions we take won't make enough of a difference, but will absolutely cripple us economically vis a vis our global counterparts and competitors who'd be happy to watch us suffer.



847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10968 on: October 04, 2024, 11:46:15 AM »
That last part is why coming up with a plan is so difficult, if not impossible.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10969 on: October 04, 2024, 11:51:11 AM »
That's why I usually refer to a practicable plan, not one that would cost $50 trillion by 2050.

My own "plan" as noted would be to get realistic and let folks know what the models are predicting in terms of storm intensity and sea level rise (which isn't much by 2050) so folks could make some individual decisions about compensation.  Coastal cities might invest in flood remediation tactics, as well as perhaps leveling some areas to provide a buffer, over time.

Then I'd convert every coal power plant to nuclear.  The steam turbines should be (?) adaptable.  If W&S now are cheaper, great, have at it, no need to subsidize.

utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10970 on: October 04, 2024, 11:55:19 AM »
That last part is why coming up with a plan is so difficult, if not impossible.
Yeah it's extremely easy to write a plan that will achieve the necessary cuts.

It's absolutely impossible to get all of the varying groups of companies, citizens, governments, agencies, to all enact the plan cohesively.

Even people who passionately and fervently believe climate change is an imminent existential threat, aren't willing to change their habits.  I have a friend who posts environmental shit on Facebook all the time.  She's a total granola, she's vegan, and all that jazz.  But she flies from San Francisco to the east coast multiple times per year to visit family or her daughter who's in college over there somewhere, and she flies to Europe at least once per year.  When another crusty friend of hers called her out for it, the carnage and social media fallout were remarkable.


847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10971 on: October 04, 2024, 12:04:15 PM »
Even people who passionately and fervently believe climate change is an imminent existential threat, aren't willing to change their habits.
No problem with 1500 private jets arriving in Davos.

Nothing to see here.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10972 on: October 04, 2024, 12:04:47 PM »
Even if the US tanked our economy and shut down every coal and gas power plant and mandated every vehicle be electric, somehow, it still would be a minor contributor to CO2 levels (and increases) in the world.  Instead of an increase of about 2.5°C by 2050, it would be 2.3-2.4°C, at best.  Probably not measurable.

The $370 billion allocated in the recent bill by Congress over ten years is ... nothing.  I guess it makes some feel good, and makes others a lot wealthier.

MrNubbz

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10973 on: October 04, 2024, 12:39:07 PM »
My "plan" would first be to get realistic with the voters. Politicians on the Left have been claiming if we spend all these billions the problem will get solved, otherwise we'll all drown.  Politicians on the Right have often claimed it's a nonissue, we should ignore it.
Take some advice from Stonewall Jackson - "kill 'em, Kill 'em all"
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10974 on: October 04, 2024, 12:44:48 PM »
As is often the case, the "problem" gets wildly exaggerated in movies and by "Al Gore" types, who repeatedly get it wrong and over hyped.  This engenders a sense of mistrust among some that the entire story is wrong and over hyped for ulterior reasons.  Being realistic and scientificially guided and sound would be a blessing, in my view.

But that doesn't generate breathless headlines about catastrophes happening NOW and SOON.

847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10975 on: October 04, 2024, 12:57:32 PM »
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

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