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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10570 on: August 26, 2024, 10:48:09 AM »
if the Atlantic cools, that would help the world as a whole not warm as much
Maybe, I doubt it.  The cooling has to mean somewhere else is warming in an isolated system.  The heat has to be going somewhere else, for some reason not understood.

My GUESS is the only way this could happen is some change in ocean currents, perhaps an upwelling from the depths for some reason.  The bottom of the oceans is always at 4°C, so it's cold down there.  If that cold water is cycling higher, for whatever reason, it means the depths would be soaking up the heat, and getting slightly warmer.

Or it might be a change in currents nearer the surface, but the heat has to go somewhere.


847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10571 on: August 26, 2024, 02:58:40 PM »
'The tropics are broken:' So where are all the Atlantic hurricanes? (msn.com)
'The tropics are broken:' So where are all the Atlantic hurricanes? (msn.com)
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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10572 on: August 26, 2024, 03:04:45 PM »
My GUESS is the only way this could happen is some change in ocean currents, perhaps an upwelling from the depths for some reason.  The bottom of the oceans is always at 4°C, so it's cold down there.  If that cold water is cycling higher, for whatever reason, it means the depths would be soaking up the heat, and getting slightly warmer.

I'd think if the depths soaked up some of the earth's heat, that could be a positive 
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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10573 on: August 26, 2024, 03:05:41 PM »
I'd think if the depths soaked up some of the earth's heat, that could be a positive
Depends. It could be bad for marine life - especially coral.
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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10574 on: August 26, 2024, 03:14:10 PM »
not at the depths I'm thinkin bout
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10575 on: August 26, 2024, 03:31:46 PM »
The "depths down miles harbor little life at all.  I am stumped on how novel heat exchange could happen suddenly between near surface layers and a mile+ down.

Water is at its densest ay 4°C, so the bottom layer will always be at that T in a very deep pool.  Fortunately, it doesn't freeze.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10576 on: August 26, 2024, 03:39:03 PM »
I'd think if the depths soaked up some of the earth's heat, that could be a positive
As CD points out, we simply don't really know. Models can't predict everything. There could be negative feedback loops that we don't know about that will make all this CO2 getting thrown into the air a nothingburger. There could be positive feedback loops that we don't know about that will be catastrophic. I think the Earth has trended mostly towards stability (or life wouldn't have had an opportunity to evolve), but we know there are 5 known mass extinction events in history where it didn't. 

To me, it's highly interesting when all of a sudden we have some new phenomena occurring and the scientists are all scratching their heads and don't know why. It means the world is going to figure it out and learn something new. And hopefully it's something good. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10577 on: August 26, 2024, 03:56:56 PM »
Atlantic Niña on the verge of developing. Here's why we should pay attention. | NOAA Climate.gov
Atlantic Niña on the verge of developing. Here's why we should pay attention. | NOAA Climate.gov

This summer cooling is because of winds that act on the ocean surface. Earth has a year-round rainfall band around the tropics. Driven by stronger solar heating, this rainfall band migrates northward during the summer in the Northern Hemisphere. The regular rainstorms draw in air from the southeast over the equatorial Atlantic. 

These steady southeasterly winds are strong enough to drag surface waters away from the equator, which brings relatively cold water from deeper ocean layers to the surface. This process, known as equatorial upwelling, forms a tongue of relatively cold water along the equatorial Atlantic during the summer months. 

Only south of 5 degrees South were the southeasterly trade winds stronger than usual. As of now, these atmosphere-ocean conditions, apparently unfavorable for the developing Atlantic Niña event, are quite perplexing. We will need to dig deeper to reveal the exact causes of this seemingly unusual event. 

One might think that a temperature difference of ±0.5 degrees Celsius (± 0.9 degrees Fahrenheit) in the tropical Atlantic does not seem like a big deal, but this difference can have a huge impact on rainfall over the surrounding continents. Reduced rainfall over the Sahel region, increased rainfall over the Gulf of Guinea, and seasonal shifts of the rainy season in northeastern South America have all been attributed to Atlantic Niño events. 

Plus, Atlantic Niños have been shown to increase the likelihood of powerful hurricanes developing near the Cape Verde islands. NOAA’s seasonal forecast of above-normal 2024 hurricane activity is based in part* on expected La Niña conditions in the equatorial Pacific and warm ocean temperatures in the tropical North Atlantic. It will be interesting to monitor whether this Atlantic Niña fully develops, and if so, whether it has a dampening effect on hurricane activity as the season progresses. [Edited on August 22, 2024, to add "in part".] 

utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10578 on: August 26, 2024, 04:03:22 PM »
La Nina is historically miserable for our rain chances here in Texico and even this recent El Nino brought us pretty much nothing.

Might be time to move.


FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10579 on: August 26, 2024, 04:06:05 PM »
to florida
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utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10580 on: August 26, 2024, 04:08:27 PM »
to florida
Yup I'm moving in right next door to badge

Cincydawg

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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10582 on: August 26, 2024, 07:59:19 PM »
so do the Chinese
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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #10583 on: August 26, 2024, 08:39:09 PM »
Yup I'm moving in right next door to badge
That would be great. You didn't take my phone call last night, bastage.
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