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Topic: Top 150 HCs

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Mdot21

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Re: Top 150 HCs
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2019, 12:22:59 PM »
Urban Meyer at 46 is a joke. He's top 5 at worst.
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Mdot21

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Re: Top 150 HCs
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2019, 12:24:17 PM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 11, 2019, 06:18:09 AM
Might be the dumbest list ever compiled.
this
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Cincydawg

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Re: Top 150 HCs
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2019, 12:34:59 PM »
My list of dumb lists was pretty dumb.
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bayareabadger

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Re: Top 150 HCs
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2019, 01:13:16 PM »
A list like this can’t functionally have any any real value. You can barely compare Snyder and Saban, let alone Saban and Pop Warner.

It’s beyond the silly and subjective.

I think some of the case stuff is interesting. Urby is most assuredly overrated for his first stop and modestly for his second. His OSU tenure is interesting because he managed almost the least consequential 83-9 possible, which is a weird thing to write, but is kinda true. He’s super underrated as an innovator.

I think Spurrier’s UF tenure also has possible holes, namely a lack of one loss teams despite all that talent.

But anyway, putting numbers on it is silly. HBCU coaches from the 60s and Oklahoma coaches from the 20s vs a two-loss National champ at LSU? It’s like apples vs steaks vs beans.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Top 150 HCs
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2019, 07:16:35 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on December 11, 2019, 09:26:36 AM
I agree, but I do get where @OrangeAfroMan was coming from.  During the famed "Ten Year War" they were "about the same":
  •  


Yeah, this is it, because this is all I ever hear about with either of them (along with Woody's punch).  Growing up outside of Big Ten country, it's as if the two of them were direct contemporaries.  
So yeah, that history of being paired up with Bo does a disservice to Hayes.  
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Top 150 HCs
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2019, 07:22:17 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on December 11, 2019, 01:13:16 PM

I think Spurrier’s UF tenure also has possible holes, namely a lack of one loss teams despite all that talent.

Perennial top-5 FSU, then SECCG, then (major) bowl.  Spurrier was the first HC to face a playoff-like ending to his season most years.  
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 150 HCs
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2019, 07:35:56 PM »
Spurrier was in my mind a great college coach, and funny too, often at our expense.
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CWSooner

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Re: Top 150 HCs
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2019, 08:02:19 PM »
I think that both Barry Switzer and--even more so--Urban Meyer are being punished for some unwritten "morality clause" in the criteria.

Conversely, I think Bob Stoops is getting some bonus points for being a stand-up guy.

I do not like Nick Saban, but he should be #1.  His championships are all legit, earned through the BCS or CFP system, even though two of them came after he didn't win his division in the SEC.  Bear Bryant's championships are from a different era (as are those of Wilkinson, McKay, Parseghian, et. al.), where until 1968 (AP) and 1973 (UPI/Coaches) named their national champs before the bowl games, and there were often split championships.  Going back further, national championships earned before the AP Poll appeared in 1938 are even shakier.
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MarqHusker

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Re: Top 150 HCs
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2019, 09:54:49 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2019, 07:22:17 PM
Perennial top-5 FSU, then SECCG, then (major) bowl.  Spurrier was the first HC to face a playoff-like ending to his season most years. 
He also won at Duke for crying out loud.   I also think (and it is hard to determine how much to attribute to Spurrier, as their deal w CBS is often overlooked too) he really smacked the SEC upside the head and forced them to step their game up.   The league wasn't quite a perennial bully the way it very much became later, and Spurrier's arrival and subsequent beatings he administered really forced a lot of those programs to look inward.

Of course he did enjoy some humble pie along the way.  :)
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bayareabadger

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Re: Top 150 HCs
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2019, 09:58:05 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2019, 07:22:17 PM
Perennial top-5 FSU, then SECCG, then (major) bowl.  Spurrier was the first HC to face a playoff-like ending to his season most years. 
True, but he also came into that stretch with a loss almost every year. He had two breakthroughs, one where he got mushed by Neb and one when he backed into a title. That's all good.

He had nine other seasons without probation. There were two SEC title game loses (both with this highest loss teams), four big bowl losses, five regular season FSU losses and a tie. That's all well and good, but then you have 12 more losses, or about 1.3 a year. And that's fine, but if you're the best play-caller of all time, have a boatload of talent and have Bob Stoops for most of it, i guess I just imagine they'd have more bites at the apple, more times they came into that stretch with a better record. 
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bayareabadger

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Re: Top 150 HCs
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2019, 10:01:05 PM »
Quote from: MarqHusker on December 11, 2019, 09:54:49 PM
He also won at Duke for crying out loud.  I also think (and it is hard to determine how much to attribute to Spurrier, as their deal w CBS is often overlooked too) he really smacked the SEC upside the head and forced them to step their game up.  The league wasn't quite a perennial bully the way it very much became later, and Spurrier's arrival and subsequent beatings he administered really forced a lot of those programs to look inward.

Of course he did enjoy some humble pie along the way.  :)
He was very good at Duke and got South Carolina to heights it's still chasing. But even then, he went 10-2 three times and didn't play for the SEC title (he did the year before in a unforgivably bad east)
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CWSooner

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Re: Top 150 HCs
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2019, 10:17:02 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on December 11, 2019, 09:58:05 PM
True, but he also came into that stretch with a loss almost every year. He had two breakthroughs, one where he got mushed by Neb and one when he backed into a title. That's all good.

He had nine other seasons without probation. There were two SEC title game loses (both with this highest loss teams), four big bowl losses, five regular season FSU losses and a tie. That's all well and good, but then you have 12 more losses, or about 1.3 a year. And that's fine, but if you're the best play-caller of all time, have a boatload of talent and have Bob Stoops for most of it, i guess I just imagine they'd have more bites at the apple, more times they came into that stretch with a better record.
He only had Bob Stoops (his DC) from 1996 through 1998.

Seems like he lost about a game a year that he shouldn't have.

But you could say that about Bob Stoops too, every year at Oklahoma after 2004.  He ran the OU program a lot like Spurrier ran Florida, so there might be a common reason for that.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 10:22:05 PM by CWSooner »
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Top 150 HCs
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2019, 10:23:39 PM »
I have to admit, I've never heard anyone cite 'losing too much' as a mark against Spurrier.  122-27-1 at Florida.  I think you might be underestimating the Gators' schedules through the 90s.
Here's a fun stat in regards to him losing:  Spurrier didn't lose to an unranked team from 1990 until the 2000 season.  10 years.  No giveaways in a decade.  He only lost to good teams, and they played a lot of them.  His lone NC season was vs the #1 schedule in the country.


But as Alvarez and Snyder get credit (or should) for program building, Spurrier also did something unique - he transformed a run-first, run-second, run-third conference into a modern brand of football.  He was dropping 50 points on ranked opponents left and right. 
He admittedly didn't care for recruiting, didn't like having to persuade someone to play for him.  If you weren't doing as you were coached, he'd put the next guy in.  THAT was a big deal, to be honest. 

But back to my point - I just don't see how you put Holtz ahead of him.  They're similar in several different ways, but Spurrier is ahead by a little in all the ones I see. 
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: Top 150 HCs
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2019, 10:33:05 PM »
list is a joke. Urban Meyer is top 5 and I'd put Spurrier in the top 10. Period.
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