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Topic: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #140 on: August 19, 2025, 03:31:58 PM »
Did Michigan cross the line? Sure did. 
OMG!  I believe that this is a first.  There is at least one Michigan fan in the world capable of admitting that the school he roots for cheated.  Maybe, just maybe if what we heard from the Michigan fans on here and everywhere wasn't a constant refrain of "nu uh, we won nah nah nah nah" some of us wouldn't be so completely fed up.  

Gigem

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #141 on: August 19, 2025, 03:37:45 PM »
Wait, what did Bob Stoops do that makes you say that?  Are you talking about the Rhett Bomar thing?  Because that's really the only thing that comes to mind.  

utee94

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #142 on: August 19, 2025, 03:38:34 PM »
OMG!  I believe that this is a first.  There is at least one Michigan fan in the world capable of admitting that the school he roots for cheated.  Maybe, just maybe if what we heard from the Michigan fans on here and everywhere wasn't a constant refrain of "nu uh, we won nah nah nah nah" some of us wouldn't be so completely fed up. 
Well hooray!

So we can leave this all behind us now yes? :)

Just kidding.  But I for one would at least like to see it confined to a thread like this one, so it doesn't spill over and toxify the rest of the board.

And I'd also suggest to Michigan fans that if they don't want to hear bad things about their school, don't click on a thread that was specifically created to relay bad things about their school...


utee94

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #143 on: August 19, 2025, 03:39:13 PM »
Wait, what did Bob Stoops do that makes you say that?  Are you talking about the Rhett Bomar thing?  Because that's really the only thing that comes to mind. 
I mean, Rhett Bomar wasn't the ONLY Sooner on the booster payroll.  He was just the most famous one.

It was institutionalized at OU.  Multiple players on those teams "worked" at Big Red Auto.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #144 on: August 19, 2025, 03:40:27 PM »
The above is opinion not fact.  I realize you didn't say it, but you're holding it up as supporting evidence.

I personally strongly disagree with that opinion.  What Michigan did for a handful of years is not anywhere close to what OU did for over half a century.  None of you jackwagons give a shit about that so please forgive me if I'm not full of righteous fervor over this thing.
Eh. I'm not going to claim to know anything about OU's transgressions. And to be fair, I called it the most egregious cheating scandal that ***I*** had ever heard of. I'm not some sort of college football historian. I really knew nothing about the game until 1997, and barely paid attention to anything outside the Big Ten until the mid-oughts or so. 

To me, the reason I brought up the comparison to something like point shaving is due to its actual on-field effect. Another one that would be similarly analogous would be paying off referees. 

While I think there are so MANY instances of small and large scale recruiting shenanigans over the years, i.e bagmen, "fake jobs" paying players, etc... Those are different from this categorically. 

A massive advanced scouting and sign-stealing program targeted to be able to decipher the opponents playcalls in real time--perhaps having even MORE effect on a game than the players point-shaving or the referees trying to manufacture [or ignore] calls to advantage one program... That's a big damn deal. And it's one that is nearly impossible to have happen without institutional support; it may not be clear who was reimbursing Stallions for what he did, but for Harbaugh to have him on the sideline working with the coordinators has to involve knowledge of what he was up to, or turning such a blind eye that it is itself malfeasance. 


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #145 on: August 19, 2025, 03:42:07 PM »
And I'd also suggest to Michigan fans that if they don't want to hear bad things about their school, don't click on a thread that was specifically created to relay bad things about their school...
Yeah, but the title of the thread doesn't even mention Michigan... How could they POSSIBLY know that this was about their school? :57:

(Seems like another Benadryl Cucumber scenario--everyone know who was being talked about...)

utee94

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #146 on: August 19, 2025, 03:43:07 PM »
Eh. I'm not going to claim to know anything about OU's transgressions. And to be fair, I called it the most egregious cheating scandal that ***I*** had ever heard of. I'm not some sort of college football historian. I really knew nothing about the game until 1997, and barely paid attention to anything outside the Big Ten until the mid-oughts or so.

To me, the reason I brought up the comparison to something like point shaving is due to its actual on-field effect. Another one that would be similarly analogous would be paying off referees.

While I think there are so MANY instances of small and large scale recruiting shenanigans over the years, i.e bagmen, "fake jobs" paying players, etc... Those are different from this categorically.

A massive advanced scouting and sign-stealing program targeted to be able to decipher the opponents playcalls in real time--perhaps having even MORE effect on a game than the players point-shaving or the referees trying to manufacture [or ignore] calls to advantage one program... That's a big damn deal. And it's one that is nearly impossible to have happen without institutional support; it may not be clear who was reimbursing Stallions for what he did, but for Harbaugh to have him on the sideline working with the coordinators has to involve knowledge of what he was up to, or turning such a blind eye that it is itself malfeasance.


Right, I know.  The fact that it was institutionalized for over half a century-- not just a few boosters handing out hundies in the locker room-- means nothing to you.  I get it.  

Like I said, none of you jackwagons give a shit about it.  And I don't feel compelled to care about this one short era of a program, any more than you care about decades upon decades elsewhere.

*shrug*


medinabuckeye1

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #147 on: August 19, 2025, 03:53:19 PM »
The above is opinion not fact.  I realize you didn't say it, but you're holding it up as supporting evidence.

I personally strongly disagree with that opinion.  What Michigan did for a handful of years is not anywhere close to what OU did for over half a century.  None of you jackwagons give a shit about that so please forgive me if I'm not full of righteous fervor over this thing.
I do care and I acknowledge that Oklahoma and other schools have cheated.  

The difference, as I see it, is provability.  In every case of which I am aware that the NCAA was able to prove that a school* paid players (back when that was illegal) there were consequences and the school acted appropriately.  

There are two differences here.  First, Michigan's cheating isn't an allegation.  Contra @Mdot21 , it isn't something that Ohio State fans say happened.  It is a documented fact.  

Secondly is the Asterix from above.  We all say that "Auburn paid Cam Newton" or that "Oklahoma paid players", or more locally that "Michigan paid the Fab Five" and while the gist of that is true, it isn't factually true.  The University of Auburn, as an institution, didn't pay Cam Newton and, so far as I know, the actual institution didn't actually violate any rules.  Same for Oklahoma and Michigan with football players and the Fab Five respectively.  Oklahoma boosters paid players and some random electrician who happened to have a few extra million in his pocket paid the Fab Five.  

If we are really honest about it I have no doubt that there have been, as @MrNubbz put it above, oilmen dropping cash around the Texas AD and the same thing happening at Ohio State and all the other program.  Similarly, I don't doubt that players from pretty much all the programs have had cushy and/or outright no-show jobs "working" for boosters.  These things happen but the schools generally at least pretend not to allow it.  Turning a blind eye to something that you can't realistically enforce anyway isn't the same thing as actually engaging in cheating as an institution.  

SuperMario

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #148 on: August 19, 2025, 03:57:32 PM »
  Once a dirtbag, always a dirtbag. 

You guys may not like the way I've phrased it but call a spade a spade.  None of the facts I laid out are disputable. 
This is a perfect example of a completely unreasonable take and approach. While you don't want to come to terms with it, this is a far clearer reflection of you than me. I'm not sure why your passion has become paint the picture of all Michigan fans as pieces of shit if they don't spend their waking hours saying everyone in Ann Arbor is a dirtbag, but many of us out there know that it's not the game nor the outcome of the game that's most important, it's the connection we make with people along that way that has the most value. Maybe I should cancel my trip to Ann Arbor next month with my wife and kids. There's no way they could possibly focus on the first college football game experience with so many scumbags sitting around them. 

utee94

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #149 on: August 19, 2025, 03:59:34 PM »
I do care and I acknowledge that Oklahoma and other schools have cheated. 

The difference, as I see it, is provability.  In every case of which I am aware that the NCAA was able to prove that a school* paid players (back when that was illegal) there were consequences and the school acted appropriately. 

There are two differences here.  First, Michigan's cheating isn't an allegation.  Contra @Mdot21 , it isn't something that Ohio State fans say happened.  It is a documented fact. 

Secondly is the Asterix from above.  We all say that "Auburn paid Cam Newton" or that "Oklahoma paid players", or more locally that "Michigan paid the Fab Five" and while the gist of that is true, it isn't factually true.  The University of Auburn, as an institution, didn't pay Cam Newton and, so far as I know, the actual institution didn't actually violate any rules.  Same for Oklahoma and Michigan with football players and the Fab Five respectively.  Oklahoma boosters paid players and some random electrician who happened to have a few extra million in his pocket paid the Fab Five. 

If we are really honest about it I have no doubt that there have been, as @MrNubbz put it above, oilmen dropping cash around the Texas AD and the same thing happening at Ohio State and all the other program.  Similarly, I don't doubt that players from pretty much all the programs have had cushy and/or outright no-show jobs "working" for boosters.  These things happen but the schools generally at least pretend not to allow it.  Turning a blind eye to something that you can't realistically enforce anyway isn't the same thing as actually engaging in cheating as an institution. 
Again. I get it.  You don't give a shit.  You really don't.  Paragraphs and paragraphs of exposition to tell me that you don't give a shit.

It doesn't take me paragraphs to say-- I care a lot less about what Michigan did for a few years, than what OU did for over half a century.

But I do think that Michigan should have entirely cleaned house.  Keeping on anyone, from that staff, is not acceptable.

SFBadger96

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #150 on: August 19, 2025, 04:01:54 PM »
I'm with SM on this one. Any of the teams we cheer for could have been embroiled in this kind of thing. It would still be difficult not to be fans.

How we each rationalize it, and how much we are willing to wish away are interesting questions. Kinda metaphysical. Have to bring @MikeDeTiger for questions like that.

MrNubbz

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #151 on: August 19, 2025, 04:03:36 PM »
You should stick to eating sandwiches over the sink and leave the pot stirring to the pros like Fearless.
That's a dirty,rotten,no good,low down,accurate thing to say to me
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Drew4UTk

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #152 on: August 19, 2025, 04:09:05 PM »
Wait, what did Bob Stoops do that makes you say that?  Are you talking about the Rhett Bomar thing?  Because that's really the only thing that comes to mind. 
What i recall about Stoops and that incident is his post comments... the ncaa was given a gift in the form of court records under sworn testimony irt USCw, and did nothing.  Carol refused to cooperate.  Stoops self investigated and offered everything discovered- and the ncaa slapped them.  Stoops said "the take away? Don't self report and don't cooperate with an investigation".

I tend to agree with him after that.  Me agreeing with Stoops is a pretty big deal.  :)

The ncaa was proven to selectively charge.  They came after UT several times, and until tater head blew it, they've never found a thing.  They made a rule, recently, and then tried to retro charge TN for it's violation- and lost... they have no teeth, now, unless you bend over for them.  Truth is, they never had teeth people just thought they did. 


Stealing signs? .... the only part i detest about that charge is if they were selling them as some suggested, or, if they were paving their road to the big dance by sharing them with opponents of possible opponents.  That seems more than a little much... insofar as the signs themselves? Its part of the game. 

As analogy- in the US you can be charged with satellite TV fraud by hacking their signal.  Its a pretty serious charge.  In Australia or Canada? The courts tell the broadcaster "uh, make a better encryption".... you're getting blasted with signals whether you like it or not, bit can serve jail time for capturing and using it? Huh... its still stealing. It should be considered "part of the game" for them, too.  They're just mad someone cracked it.... just like UMs opponents are. 


There was a time in the 90s when Nebraska could have announced over the stadium speakers "RB off strong tackle on three" and nobody could have done any better stopping it than of they didn't know.  Execution was flawless.  The components/players were right and in the right place.  They were that good as a team.  And it wouldn't have mattered if someone knew what they planned to do every play. 

Madden once said "trick plays show a coaches insecurity"... and i think thats true.  Knowing the play before execution obviously benefits- but if that team was well honed, it just about wouldn't matter.  Its almost like a defensive trick play.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #153 on: August 19, 2025, 04:11:24 PM »
I'm with SM on this one. Any of the teams we cheer for could have been embroiled in this kind of thing. It would still be difficult not to be fans.

How we each rationalize it, and how much we are willing to wish away are interesting questions. Kinda metaphysical. Have to bring @MikeDeTiger for questions like that.
And this is where I am. I'm not, in any way, suggesting that Michigan fans should stop rooting for their school. Some of the stuff at Penn State was absolutely horrible, and that doesn't mean you should never root for Penn State.

Fandom is irrational, and as SM says, there is so much emotion involved in it because of it becoming entrenched during some of the most formative years of one's life. When I took my son on his Purdue tour last month, being able to sit there and walk the campus with him just brought a smile to my face. I know Purdue is a good school, but what made me happy was showing him *MY* school. 

It's the seeming inability to acknowledge the enormity of the wrongdoing that bothers me. When the milquetoast punishment was handed down, the response could have been "Whew! I could have sworn we would have gotten it worse. We really got away lucky..." Instead it was gloating. And even now, Sherrone Moore has a 2 year show-cause... Which I guess means that any institution that hires him has to show why they must hire him. But of course Michigan doesn't have to show why they're keeping him. So they got off scot free, absent a little financial penalty that they won't even feel. 

 

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