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Topic: Rankings ... ugh

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Gigem

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Re: Rankings ... ugh
« Reply #1064 on: September 21, 2023, 02:11:09 PM »
Regarding the existence of God...

I think about this a lot.  If, and that's a big IF, a God creates the universe and all that is within it including the laws of physics and all the atoms and quarks and dark energy and the whole shebang I've always wondered.....where did God come from?  I mean, alpha and omega aside, how did he come into being......is there a higher God that rules over our God?  And if there is a higher God, who made this God?  



And if, another big IF, there was a "Big Bang" and that's what started it all....what came before the Big Bang to make the stuff the Big Bang came from.  And my understanding is that ever since the Big Bang the universe is expanding...but I've often wondered....expanding into WHAT?  

Imagine if we could just answer only 1 of the questions from above.  

847badgerfan

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Re: Rankings ... ugh
« Reply #1065 on: September 21, 2023, 02:12:50 PM »
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Gigem

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Re: Rankings ... ugh
« Reply #1066 on: September 21, 2023, 02:28:15 PM »
10 hottest chicks in the 90s:
1. Cindy Crawford
2. Catherine Zeta-Jones
3. Sharon Stone
4. Claudia Schiffer
5. Shania Twain
6. Pam Anderson
7. Demi Moore
8. Elizabeth Hurley
9. Denise Richards
10. Salma Hayek
Others receiving votes:  Alyssa Milano, Jennifer Aniston, Jennifer Love Hewitt, Cameron Diaz, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Elle Macpherson

90s Top 10

I have a lot of opinions on this....
I could get behind every chick on this list, and the others receiving votes too.  

Gigem

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Re: Rankings ... ugh
« Reply #1067 on: September 21, 2023, 02:30:04 PM »
Every graduating class in every school in the country has a Cindy Crawford. 
But,
does she want to rely on her looks as a career?
does she get "discovered?"
does she work her way up while being poor?
does she catch a big break?
does a famous photographer/editor think she's special?
does she get in front of enough eyeballs to become a "thing?"
does she get lucky?
.
Cindy Crawford wins a popularity contest, hands down. 
Her story is special.  Her looks are not (when compared to models, etc - of course).
Sure, there are 10,000 girls almost as pretty as her....but close don't count.  

But I'm with you, she's not at the top of my list, but definitely on it.  Agree to disagree on Kathy Ireland.  

Denise Richardson is near the top of my list.  

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Rankings ... ugh
« Reply #1068 on: September 21, 2023, 02:59:59 PM »
What I've always wondered...


  • God is omniscient and omnipotent.
  • God knows the past, the present, and the future (being omniscient). To think that God's knowledge is limited by the constraints of traveling through geological time is not giving him true omniscience.
  • This would imply that God knows in advance every decision I make in my life, because for me to make any decision contrary to God's knowledge would make Him wrong, and being omniscient he cannot be wrong. 
  • This means that there cannot be such a thing as "free will", because I can only make the decisions God has already known I will make.
  • God created the universe. He is omnipotent, so he could choose to make the universe in any way he likes. 
  • He clearly liked the one he made, hence why the religious always talk about things, bad or good, being "God's plan". 
  • Since he is omniscient and omnipotent, his PLAN for the universe is such that every sin I commit, he has preordained that I will commit, and that I have no free will to do (or think) otherwise. 
  • In fact, his preordained plan thus must be that I was to be an atheist, to *NOT* accept Jesus as my savior, and his plan is responsible for that and every other thing that has occurred in my life. I have no autonomy in any of it.


Which leads me to...

  • If God accepts that he has made me flawed as I am, then a benevolent God would not punish me with eternal damnation simply for doing what he literally created me to do, and cannot choose otherwise. 
  • If God, knowing he full well could have created a universe where I either didn't commit the sins he is holding me accountable for, or chosen to create a universe where I never existed (and thus didn't need to be punished), STILL chooses to punish me with eternal damnation? Well, then God is an ass. 


If it's the former, then I'll see y'all in heaven. If it's the latter, well, who would want to believe in that asshole God anyway?

utee94

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Re: Rankings ... ugh
« Reply #1069 on: September 21, 2023, 03:02:23 PM »
I will say that I agree with OAM in that, if it's 1995 and Denise Richards walks up to me alongside Cindy Crawford and they state, "utee94, you can hook up with one and only one of us right now" then 1995 utee94 is going to choose Denise Richards.

However, that doesn't mean that young utee94 isn't wishing he could also hook up with Cindy Crawford.

And I'm willing to concede that others' opinions on this entirely subjective matter could differ, and they might pick Cindy over Denise in that case.

Obviously, the best answer is:





longhorn320

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Re: Rankings ... ugh
« Reply #1070 on: September 21, 2023, 04:46:58 PM »
I saw a bumper sticker that read

God is coming and boy is She pissed
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

MrNubbz

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Re: Rankings ... ugh
« Reply #1071 on: September 21, 2023, 04:58:05 PM »


And I'm willing to concede that others' opinions on this entirely subjective matter could differ, and they might pick Cindy over Denise in that case.

Obviously, the best answer is:


You're well paid but you don't make that much
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MrNubbz

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Re: Rankings ... ugh
« Reply #1072 on: September 21, 2023, 05:02:00 PM »
53 kids in my graduating class of 1981
How many Cindy Crawfords
Fearless had the girls from Hee Haw - including Minnie Pearl and Lulu Roman - SA-LUTE
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MrNubbz

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Re: Rankings ... ugh
« Reply #1073 on: September 21, 2023, 05:07:49 PM »


In fact, his preordained plan thus must be that I was to be an atheist, to *NOT* accept Jesus as my savior, and his plan is responsible for that and every other thing that has occurred in my life. I have no autonomy in any of it.



If God accepts that he has made me flawed as I am, then a benevolent God would not punish me with eternal damnation simply for doing what he literally created me to do, and cannot choose otherwise.

I've heard alot about God and Jesus at the Cleveland-Pittsburgh Games and the Race Track
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

FearlessF

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Re: Rankings ... ugh
« Reply #1074 on: September 21, 2023, 05:21:41 PM »
Fearless had the girls from Hee Haw - including Minnie Pearl and Lulu Roman - SA-LUTE
Hee Haw - Victoria Hallman
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MrNubbz

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Re: Rankings ... ugh
« Reply #1075 on: September 21, 2023, 05:32:59 PM »

Talented woman - comedian and singer
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Cincydawg

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Re: Rankings ... ugh
« Reply #1076 on: September 21, 2023, 05:50:11 PM »
One concept of a Creator is that It exists outside of time, something hard to imagine.

But consider a 2 dimensional universe that "we" created and it was translating through our 3rd dimension.  For us, there is only left and right, for them it would be "time".  We could see it all, and there would no question about "when" we existed.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Rankings ... ugh
« Reply #1077 on: September 21, 2023, 09:38:07 PM »
That's a broad question, so I'd probably narrow it down to categories.  There's literally dozens, but there are some popular ones that have been debated for decades and even centuries now.  Start with what's commonly known as the cosmological argument; the beginning of the universe.  This wasn't always heavily corroborated by the latest scientific findings (think: Einstein, who is relatively recent, and initially preferred a static model of the universe),  but the universe having an absolute beginning is widely accepted now.  There's a ton of evidence for that, from both the scientific and philosophy communities.  But what does it mean?  There's the rub.  Something not in or part of the universe caused the universe to come into being, but what?  "Something not in or part of the universe" would be one working definition of "supernatural" so I'd argue that it doesn't really matter which view you side with, it technically is "supernatural."  Both sides are forced to extrapolate a list of qualities that must necessarily belong to such a cause, but they don't agree on all of them, or who or what it is.  One example is Stephen Hawking's view later in his life, that gravity caused the universe to come into being.  If you wade through the details of his explanation, what he actually does is assign to gravity nearly all the qualities a religious person would assign to a deity, excepting personhood.  So there's a lot of agreement on the evidence, but different conclusions drawn.  This is a 50,000 ft. overview....I'm skipping a literal ton here, like I said, it's one of my favorite topics.

A second popular argument is the teleological argument, or what could be called the design argument.  The evidence not in dispute is an ever-growing, very long list of characteristics about the universe that are extraordinarily fine-tined for there to be a universe at all, and in particular one that can support life.  The meaning, again, is in dispute.  Briefly, an atheistic view tends to argue one of two things, either it's blind chance that everything is fine-tuned the way that it is, or they appeal to a multiverse theory, stating that this universe is one of many, possibly an infinite number, and so one of them somewhere was bound to have these characteristics.  The theist view will of course argue for a grand designer, so to speak.  But they're arguing from the same evidence.

A third popular one is the moral argument.  This one is different in a couple of ways.  First, it's nearly strictly philosophical as it doesn't appeal to science like the first two.  Second, the evidence sort of is and isn't in dispute.  What I mean by that is the "evidence" in this case is an objective morality, something that transcends our opinions and is true whether one believes it or not, and atheistic views often deny that while theistic views tend to (not always) affirm it.  Where it gets tricky is that when atheist philosophers are really pressed on it, they often do ultimately want to affirm objective morality, meaning they see some things as actually, truly wrong, which are not just matters of opinion, evolution, or societal norms.  But they either fail to see the contradiction, or they admit they have a problem and that the problem may not be intractable and shouldn't be given up on.  Or put another way, theists frequently argue that there is an objective morality to our existence and that the source is supernatural, whereas atheists frequently argue either there is no objective morality, or that there is, and try to advocate for alternative explanations outside of something supernatural (though they admirably admit shortcomings here, which is why I say their position is sometimes that while they have a problem, they shouldn't give up on it).  So it's a little disingenuous to say there's evidence not in dispute in that realm.  Nevertheless, there is evidence either side produces for why there is or isn't objective morality, and then of course the different views drawn from either of those positions. 

Those are just the most popular 3 areas, in my opinion, where there's evidence--generally agreed upon--but differing conclusions.  There are a ton of other areas of arguments with the same thing.....some evidence from some discipline which theists and atheists try to explain in different ways.  Alvin Plantinga, formerly of Notre Dame, successfully defended over two dozen arguments in his career, many of which get extremely esoteric and beyond what the average layman can follow.  He's just one of many, and of course there are atheistic proponents such as Daniel Dennett and many others, who attempt to tackle the same subjects, the same evidence as it were, and show that atheism more reasonably explains it.

So an argument isn't evidence.  Evidence is evidence.  I know, I know, it sounds like I'm throwing your big, lost post out the window, but I'm really not.
Okay, so the universe started, and the cosmological argument suggests something started it.  But believers like to leap to someONE, which is B.S.  But even positing a creator for it all isn't evidence.  WHAT creator?  Don't know?  Not evidence.
.
Teleological argument?  Sorry, but that one is embarrassing.  See:  puddle analogy.  Of course this world seems designed, we exist in it.  The teleological argument treats the universe like a snapshot and ignores the billions of years of primordial hot garbage.  Yes,  in the past 100 years, things seem so convenient for us.  As if the creators of this sidewalk made a shallow lull so our wet puddles asses fit right in. 
You're better than this one.
.
It's funny, the moral argument is where I believe religion was born in the first place.  There was no objective morality, just the biggest, baddest got what they wanted.  Invent a god that is watching and judging them (unfaslifiable) and that they will be punished after death (unfalsifiable).  The warlords were dumb enough to fall for it, and thus religion was born.
It's hard to say there's no objective morality when you're raised in a society with generations of legal morality baked in.
.
But as you've acknowledged, and I give you credit for doing so, is that all of your "evidences" are disputed and maybes.  None of it's confirmed.  You know what "evidence" means, and none of these is actually evidence.  It's possibilities.  It's hopefulness.  It's want-to.
The next real, tangible evidence for a god will be the first. 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2023, 09:45:37 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
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