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Topic: Other P5 Races headed into week 13

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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Other P5 Races headed into week 13
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2019, 03:54:30 PM »
CFB is in the eye of the beholder. I don't get into the gambling end, and that's far more prevalent than CFB playoff talk. If I can read around all the chatter about Vegas odds and point spreads, then others can ignore the playoff banter.
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ELA

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Re: Other P5 Races headed into week 13
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2019, 04:03:11 PM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 20, 2019, 03:54:30 PM
CFB is in the eye of the beholder. I don't get into the gambling end, and that's far more prevalent than CFB playoff talk. If I can read around all the chatter about Vegas odds and point spreads, then others can ignore the playoff banter.
STRONGLY disagree.  I don't think there is any college football discussion at this point that isn't about the playoff impact.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Other P5 Races headed into week 13
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2019, 04:12:47 PM »
There aren't any threads that don't mention point spreads either, but I get by.

The midweek Maction thread doesn't have any playoff banter, as I recall. Does the MSU-Rutgers thread have any? Not to my recollection. Sure, the thread about P5 divisional races is going to have a little. Or the Top 25 thread. Those would b good ones to skip over if you don't want to read playoff banter.
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ELA

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Re: Other P5 Races headed into week 13
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2019, 04:33:32 PM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 20, 2019, 04:12:47 PM
There aren't any threads that don't mention point spreads either, but I get by.

The midweek Maction thread doesn't have any playoff banter, as I recall. Does the MSU-Rutgers thread have any? Not to my recollection. Sure, the thread about P5 divisional races is going to have a little. Or the Top 25 thread. Those would b good ones to skip over if you don't want to read playoff banter.
People aren't talking about here, they are talking about the discussion at large.  There is no discussion of the importance of any games, except their impact on the CFP.  That's fine in basketball, where any team remotely decent is at least in the discussion for the tournament, so you are truly just ignoring the dregs.  But here you are basically ignoring half the conferences right off the bat, and then by this point, 120 or so teams are totally irrelevant.  Fiutek was talking, and I agree, how even at this point of the year in the BCS, we'd be talking about races for the Rose Bowl, Sugar Bowl, Orange Bowl, etc..., or can Minnesota play in the NYD bowl.  Instead on Sunday it was a discussion about how Minnesota's dream season was done.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Other P5 Races headed into week 13
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2019, 04:50:37 PM »
Fiutek writes his own blog. He can talk about whatever he wants. If he elects to engage in non-stop playoff banter, then he has no one to blame but himself.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Other P5 Races headed into week 13
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2019, 05:00:50 PM »
Quote from: ELA on November 20, 2019, 04:33:32 PM
People aren't talking about here, they are talking about the discussion at large.  There is no discussion of the importance of any games, except their impact on the CFP.  That's fine in basketball, where any team remotely decent is at least in the discussion for the tournament, so you are truly just ignoring the dregs.  But here you are basically ignoring half the conferences right off the bat, and then by this point, 120 or so teams are totally irrelevant.  Fiutek was talking, and I agree, how even at this point of the year in the BCS, we'd be talking about races for the Rose Bowl, Sugar Bowl, Orange Bowl, etc..., or can Minnesota play in the NYD bowl.  Instead on Sunday it was a discussion about how Minnesota's dream season was done.
This is an interesting thought.  

In some ways the CFP is the worst of all worlds here.  In the BCS era there was plenty of discussion of the NC but only a very few teams were realistically in that race by this point of the season so there was still room for discussion of those other things you mention. The CFP discussion includes enough teams to basically take up all the oxygen in the room but still a small enough number that the vast majority are left completely out of the discussion.  
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Cincydawg

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Re: Other P5 Races headed into week 13
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2019, 05:27:18 PM »
It is the elephant in the room, but folks do discuss who might make significant bowl games, like cincinnati.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Other P5 Races headed into week 13
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2019, 05:29:09 PM »
I guess I'm just jealous that his "thing" is a lot easier to avoid than mine. I have a pretty good feel for how w much playoff banter there will b from the title. College Game Day? That will have a lot. Mark Dantonio's coaches show? That won't have any. Paul Finebaum? He is gonna be talking about it a lot. A weekly Maize and Blue vlog? They might mention it a time or two in passing, but it won't be the focal point. A piece on Nebraska's second season under Frost? Not a peep about CFB Playoffs.
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CWSooner

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Re: Other P5 Races headed into week 13
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2019, 10:06:51 PM »
Quote from: ELA on November 20, 2019, 12:18:01 PM
Starting to hear more and more people coming on board with the fact that the CFP has largely ruined college football, by making the focus way too narrow.  That the NY6 is not what the non-title BCS bowls were, that conference title races are meh.  Danny Kanell was saying it on the radio this week, heard a couple podcasters, including Pete Fiutek this week saying the same.  That we get to this point of the year, and so few things matter anymore.
Yes.  For helmet teams, making the CFP has been the sole metric of a successful season.  And, even once they make it, 3 of the 4 teams end their seasons as losers.

Winning your conference, going to a major bowl and defeating another conference-winner, and maybe finishing in the top 3 to 5 teams after everything shakes out is no longer good enough.  For other major-conference teams, the CFP has sucked all the air out of the room.  Even with a great season, say, going 10-2, winning a first conference championship in 15 years, and going to a "major" bowl game is not what it used to be, because all the focus is on the playoff.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Other P5 Races headed into week 13
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2019, 10:58:57 AM »
Quote from: CWSooner on November 20, 2019, 10:06:51 PM
Winning your conference, going to a major bowl and defeating another conference-winner, and maybe finishing in the top 3 to 5 teams after everything shakes out is no longer good enough.  For other major-conference teams, the CFP has sucked all the air out of the room.  Even with a great season, say, going 10-2, winning a first conference championship in 15 years, and going to a "major" bowl game is not what it used to be, because all the focus is on the playoff.
This is exactly what I meant in my post above.  In some ways the 4-team CFP is the worst of all worlds.  Per my post in another thread, 538 calculates that 12 teams have at least a 20% chance to reach the CFP if they win out:
  • 99%+ LSU
  • 99%+ tOSU
  • 99%+ Clemson
  • 99%+ Georgia
  • 91% Penn State
  • 76% Oregon
  • 73% Minnesota
  • 68% Utah
  • 66% Oklahoma
  • 33% Wisconsin
  • 25% Baylor
  • 20% Bama
That is a decent number of teams and and there is plenty of discussion to be had about it.  There is enough discussion to, as you said, suck all the air out of the room which doesn't leave any room for anything else.  

With an eight team playoff (assuming P5 auto-bids, an auto-bid for the highest ranked G5 Champ, and two at-large spots) the discussion would also include:
  • Florida:  Could potentially secure an at-large spot with an impressive finish and a few things going their way.  
  • Michigan:  Could potentially secure an at-large spot with an impressive finish and a few things going their way.  
  • Notre Dame:  Could potentially secure an at-large spot with an impressive finish and a few things going their way.
  • Memphis:  Could potentially get the G5's bid.  
  • Cincy:  Could potentially get the G5's bid.  
  • BoiseSt:  Could potentially get the G5's bid.  
  • ApSt:  Could potentially get the G5's bid.  
  • SMU:  Could potentially get the G5's bid.
  • Temple:  Could potentially get the G5's bid.  
  • OkSU:  Could (at least mathematically) win the B12.  
  • ISU:  Could (at least mathematically) win the B12.  
  • Texas:  Could (at least mathematically) win the B12.  
  • USC:  Could (at least mathematically) win the P12.  

That would be a 25-team discussion that includes pretty much every team having a potentially great season.  

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CWSooner

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Re: Other P5 Races headed into week 13
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2019, 12:51:22 PM »
I don't think going to 8 teams would fix it, Medina, any more than going to 4 teams fixed what was wrong with the BCS system.

Also, we would expand the number of teams guaranteed to end the season with losses from 3 to 7.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Other P5 Races headed into week 13
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2019, 02:13:41 PM »
Quote from: CWSooner on November 21, 2019, 12:51:22 PM
I don't think going to 8 teams would fix it, Medina, any more than going to 4 teams fixed what was wrong with the BCS system.

Also, we would expand the number of teams guaranteed to end the season with losses from 3 to 7.
I'm not sure where I stand on this anymore.

I was opposed to expanding the playoff from two to four because any playoff expansion  inherently degrades the regular season.

What I really don't like about an eight team playoff is that I assume it would come with automatic bids for the P5 Champions and the highest ranked G5 Champion. That, by definition, turns every P5 team's OOC games into meaningless exhibition games.

As it stands now every game could be decisive, see Ohio State's game against Purdue last year.

When we go to eight it will necessarily further degrade the regular season but it will keep more teams in the hunt deeper into the season.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Other P5 Races headed into week 13
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2019, 02:29:48 PM »
I like the current system, might as well, can't change it.  I enjoy what we have.

It is true that ten or so top programs see it as "playoff or bust", but other programs have interest in getting to a major bowl, and some like Minny and Baylor have exciting seasons regardless.  
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