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Topic: OT - Weird History

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #5040 on: June 06, 2025, 02:47:41 PM »
I have thought the M3 "Grant" was underappreciated.  Early in the war, the opposing tanks (Panzer 3s and 2s) were not much if any better.  The turret gun on the M3 was a 37 mm, and the sponson gun was 75 mm, admittedly limited trajectory and lowish muzzle velocity.  But as a stop gap before the Sherman was available in numbers, I think it was at least adequate.  Our troops mostly had the M1 Garand which by all accounts is a fine weapon.  The Jeep is revered.  I think US Army gear in 1942 was "decent".

I am astonished to think we were able to move a considerable force across the Atlantic in 1942 to attack ... the French.  What happened with materiel production from there was and is astonishing.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #5041 on: June 06, 2025, 02:55:21 PM »
While in Sweden, the famous Danish physicist Niels Bohr went to the train station with his family and friends to meet his brother. Wanting to do everything right, Bohr volunteered to get platform tickets for everyone.
He returned soon after, looking a bit puzzled and downcast. “You know,” he said, “things in Sweden are so much more rational than back in Denmark. At home, ticket machines run on electricity, but here, each machine has a sign telling you to stand on a little platform before inserting your coin. That way, the machine operates using gravity, saving expensive electricity!”
The group proceeded to the platform entrance—only to have the station attendant stop them and say, “These aren’t platform tickets… these are receipts from the weighing machines. You seem to have weighed yourself several times.”



medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #5042 on: June 06, 2025, 03:06:30 PM »
There is no legitimate argument: 
And yet our resident village idiot will continue arguing anyway.  

@847badgerfan , @SFBadger96 , @Cincydawg , and I are all educating you @MrNubbz .  Respect your betters.  Thank us for educating you, and STFU.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #5043 on: June 06, 2025, 03:37:11 PM »
I have thought the M3 "Grant" was underappreciated.  Early in the war, the opposing tanks (Panzer 3s and 2s) were not much if any better.  The turret gun on the M3 was a 37 mm, and the sponson gun was 75 mm, admittedly limited trajectory and lowish muzzle velocity.  But as a stop gap before the Sherman was available in numbers, I think it was at least adequate.  Our troops mostly had the M1 Garand which by all accounts is a fine weapon.  The Jeep is revered.  I think US Army gear in 1942 was "decent".
It took most armies quite a while to figure out exactly how tanks were best used in WWII.  

The British invented Tanks during WWI.  The name has a rather amusing backstory:
For code purposes the project was originally called a "Water Carrier" but one of the British politicians on the committee insisted that it be changed because he didn't want to serve on the "WC" Committee (WC being a British name for a restroom, 'water closet').  Based on his objection that switched from "water carrier" to "tank" as in a "tank of water" and thus the name of tanks even to this day.  

Anyway, in WWI Tanks were used with limited success to overrun Infantry, trenches, barbed wire, etc.  The guns on them were originally only intended for use against relatively "soft" infantry targets.  It was thought that artillery strikes would be called in for "harder" targets such as pillboxes and AFAIK nobody in the original design so much as contemplated that eventually the other side would have tanks and thus tanks would need weapons capable of destroying or disabling enemy tanks.  

Between the wars pretty much everybody developed what were called "Tank Destroyers".  Tanks were still thought of as for use against infantry and other "soft" targets so they had relatively small and not terribly powerful munitions for use against soft targets while Tank Destroyers were MUCH less armored because they weren't intended to traverse enemy territory but they were MUCH more heavily armed because they were intended to take out relatively "hard" targets, ie enemy tanks.  

While a few officers in the various armies figured out that eventually tanks would need to be able to take out enemy tanks this lesson was not fully understood by any WWII army until learned the hard way through experience.  The expansion/improvement in tank munitions over the course of WWII is frankly astounding.  At the beginning of the war the M3's 37MM and low-velocity 75MM gun were typical.  By the end everyone was utilizing high-velocity munitions such as the German 88MM which had extremely high velocity because it was originally designed as an AA gun and those need very high velocity in order to preform against aircraft at altitude.  

Every army had these issues and, unfortunately, most of them had to learn for themselves.  The British had provided a lot of information to the US based on their experiences against the Germans in France and elsewhere but a lot of it was ignored under the theory that they were "just British" and out "US" tactics would work fine.  They didn't which is why they called us "our Italians" in North Africa in 1942.  At that point in the war we simply didn't have the experience.  
I am astonished to think we were able to move a considerable force across the Atlantic in 1942 to attack ... the French.  What happened with materiel production from there was and is astonishing.
It was decided to have the Americans lead that attack because the French were pretty ticked at the Brits for attacking their ships so the hope was that the French would surrender to the Americans more readily.  

MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #5044 on: June 06, 2025, 10:33:58 PM »
There is no legitimate argument: the U.S. Army was underequipped, undertrained, and undersized at the beginning of WWII. It addressed all of those things relatively quickly, but per the comment above about the 106th Division in Belgium, the U.S. did not perform very well in Africa when it first arrived. It learned, adapted, and became a more effective fighting force. Experience is a great teacher.
1st off the USA was isolationist, and had no interest in Europen wars perhaps you missed that part. We gave them our equipment much of it was left on the Dunkirk beaches. Didn't Britain allow Germany to build an Army in direct contradiction of the terms of the Treaty of Versailles? Wasn't it Britain and France that insisted on those terms to begin with? Britain declared war on Germany the USA did not. So where does the responsibility rest for enforcing what the British Empire insisted on? why did the British not put the smackdown on Hitler much earlier, when he was rearming Germany and  retaking territories that the British took away at Versailles??

Czechoslovakia was invaded with Britain's permission to do so when signing them over at the Munich Agreement in the 1938 appeasement. That happened, didn't it? Why was Czechoslovakia not in attendance for the Munich Agreement during that contempable act? Was their voice even considered? The war for Britain started in1939 obviously, when they ran out of other people's shit to give away.They asked for the U.S.A. to aid them in defeating what they created.

They are called Great Britain but when the Wehrmacht threatened them with annihilation, they became "The United Kingdom" Then i have listen to the oozing boil foaming at the mouth medina here like you and everyone else are in complete agreement with him. But I guess I'm wrong,the poor brits whose Empire the Sun never sets on never subjugated or plundered the IRISH or India or South Africa or China twice in the opium wars or attempted to do the same on these shores. Give me some coloring books and crayons to eat like Medina does

“There’s nothing like working with people you love—and beer. Mostly beer.” - Norm Peterson

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #5045 on: Today at 01:57:53 AM »
 @MrNubbz just stop, you are only further embarrassing yourself. 

You are obviously in WAY over your head here. You've been schooled repeatedly by me and now you've also been schooled by @847badgerfan , @SFBadger96 , and I think even @Cincydawg got in on the act.

You made multiple factually inaccurate statements and got called out on it. Apologize, respect people who are more knowledgeable than you, thank us for educating you, and STFU.

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #5046 on: Today at 07:44:53 AM »
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US Supreme Court Decides Griswold v. Connecticut (1965)
In 1961, Estelle Griswold, executive director of the Planned Parenthood League of Connecticut, opened a birth control clinic for women in deliberate defiance of an 1879 law outlawing the use or distribution of contraceptives. She was arrested and fined. Her appeal made it to the US Supreme Court, which stated in a landmark 1965 decision that married couples had a right to "marital privacy," which included the right to use birth control.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #5047 on: Today at 09:22:32 AM »
The WW 2 classification of tanks and tank destroyers has interested me for some time.  There was a notion in the US that tanks should be able to fire exposive rounds to aid infantry, armor piercing rounds were available but stored in lower numbers in "tanks".  The TDs were meant to be faster with less armor with larger or more powerful main guns, usually with an open top for space for the gunners.

The Germans came to this a bit late by refitting captured French and Russian chassis with more powerful guns (also at times Russian guns).  They did have an early TD "based" off the Panzer I chassis with a decent 47 mm gun (at the time).

The German word for tank was "Panzer", the French term was "Char" (as from chariot).  The French in 1940 had some very capable tanks including a monster and one of my favorites the Somua S35 which the Germans used a fair bit after capturing quite a few.  The Germans also used a Czech tank quite a bit early in the war, the Panzer 38t, which was about as good as an early Panzer III.

The other oddish thing about tank (and naval) guns is the use of the term caliber, which in handguns and rifles means something quite different.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #5048 on: Today at 09:30:20 AM »
Small, but effective, the Czechoslovak army was one of the best of Central Europe in 1938. The country needed to protect its borders against turbulent neighbors and experienced, since the treaty of Versailles in 1919, never-ending quarrels related to its lands, inhabited by large foreign minorities. As such, Romania, Hungary and Poland had their eye on the Czech Republic, a single democracy surrounded by more or less authoritarian regimes. Its first threat, however, was Nazi Germany, because of the alleged large minorities (in fact majorities) of German-speaking people in the northern and western part of the country. As early as 1936, various plans to organize insurrections appeared, the result of these culminating in countless border incidents and the Freikorps of Konrad Heinlein in the Sudetenland.

The Czech army counted on industrial resources (mostly located in the northwest) and world-class industries, including car manufacturers, which were valuable in order to form a basis for tank production, like Škoda and Praga, Aero, etc. Exports counted many excellent automatic rifles and machine-guns. The British Bren was actually based on a Czech regular machine-gun. In terms of armored equipment, the Czech army retained 7 Renault FTs purchased in 1921-22 and the Škoda-FIAT-Torino (1920). They began to create their first domestic tank in 1929, the vz.33 tankette
vz.33 tankette, inspired by the British Vickers-Carden-Loyd Mk.VI design.

The Panzer 38(t) was a Czech-built good all-around light tank, well used by the Wehrmacht and declined into many versions. It was better armed than the Panzer II and proved more sturdy and reliable overall. It gave birth, among others, to one of the most effective tank hunters of the war, the Jagdpanzer 38(t).


Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #5049 on: Today at 09:46:07 AM »
Maximum extent of Spanish Empire.


Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #5050 on: Today at 10:03:55 AM »
49 years ago, Ted Turner's WTCG
Channel 17 in Atlanta became the first
TV 'Super Station" by sending its satellite
to four U.S.cable systems in Nebraska, Virginia,
Alabama, and Kansas. It was just the second
cable television channel, after HBO, to use a
satellite to deliver programming.
By 1978, the channel was available to viewers in all 50 states.
In 1979, WTCG changed its call letters to WTBS.



FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #5051 on: Today at 10:05:57 AM »
I watched some Braves Baseball
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #5052 on: Today at 10:09:48 AM »


Regions with a "Mediterrean Climate" ....

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #5053 on: Today at 10:11:28 AM »
Wisconsin!
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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