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The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 02:13:25 PM

Title: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 02:13:25 PM
Napoleon wasn't French, Hitler wasn't German, and Stalin wasn't Russian.

There were bolsheviks and mensheviks in Russia in 1917, the former won, it basically means majority.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 02:18:40 PM
The US went to war with Spain in 1898 (for dubious reasons related in part to an explosion of the Maine), one of five declared wars the US has had.  The US won, and took over many Spanish possessions, including the Phillippines (which arguably got us into war in 1941).  There was incentive to keep Cuba, but ostensibly part of the reason for war was to free Cuba.  The PI had coconut trees which was needed by Lever Bros. to make soap (so one story goes).

Some 40 odd years later, we cut Japan's principal oil supply.  Japan was in dire straits and looked to southeast Asia for oil, but the supply lines ran by the PI, so they figured they needed to take the PI which in turn meant neutering the US Pacific Fleet which had been forward positioned at Pearl Harbor.  So, to secure their oil from Borneo and Indonesia, they finally decided to attack said US Pacific Fleet, and did, missing our three carriers in the Pacific.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 02:20:44 PM
The Hiroshima A bomb was never tested.  The Nagasaki bomb was more "advanced" and used plutonium instead of uranium in an implosion mechanism and was the type tested in 1945 before being used.  Nuclear weapons today usually are based on plutonium, not uranium (though they can contain some of the latter).  The A bomb now serves as a trigger for the more powerful fusion weapon.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 26, 2022, 02:55:37 PM
The Hiroshima A bomb was never tested.  The Nagasaki bomb was more "advanced" and used plutonium instead of uranium in an implosion mechanism and was the type tested in 1945 before being used.  Nuclear weapons today usually are based on plutonium, not uranium (though they can contain some of the latter).  The A bomb now serves as a trigger for the more powerful fusion weapon.
The Trinity Site in New Mexico (where they conducted the world's first atomic explosion to test the Nagasaki bomb) is only open two days a year.  In 2022 those dates are:
I visited about ten years ago and it is really fascinating if you like history.  IMHO, the explosion conducted there at 5:29 a.m. on July 16, 1945 was possibly the most impactful event in human history.  Wars were converted essentially by that event from terrible struggles in which one side would eventually win and the other would eventually lose into potentially catastrophic apocalypses in which we literally possess the power to wipe out humanity.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 06:34:44 PM
"Northmen" who we sometimes call Vikings today somewhat incorrectly, started spreading out circa 850 AD and one group headed by a fellow named Rollo settled in the area of France we now call "Normandy", oddly enough.  Northmen/Danes had raided Paris several times, and Rollo had control of the Seine River, and in return for keeping the hords out of Paris, the French King gave him the land and a dukedom.  His grandson, born in Falaise with the French name Guillaume, had a claim to the English crown, which he thought was taken from him, so he assembled an army and ships and crossed the "French Channel" and defeated Harold of England at the Battle of Hastings in 1066 and became King of England and Duke of France, a situation which lead to hundreds of years of war.  It also greatly impacted our language.

Previously, the Britons were pushed out of England by invading Saxons and Angles into a peninsula called Wales today, and some of them fled by ship to another area of France we now call Brittany, where the local Breton language has some overlap with modern English, and their flag looks a bit like ours.

(https://i.imgur.com/8nHrcJZ.png)

So, we are German, Danish, French, Norwegian, Irish, Roman, and whatever else as is the English language.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 06:38:16 PM
I always found it odd that a coworker, who was born in Cuba, and whose birth name was Guillermo, went by "Bill". I had no clue how you got from one to the other.  

I had never known that Guillermo is the Spanish version of Guillaume, which is the French version of William. Hence Guillermo was called Bill. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 06:42:22 PM
Guillaume pronounced sounds vaguely akin to William.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2022, 07:04:01 PM
So, we are German, Danish, French, Norwegian, Irish, Roman, and whatever else as is the English language.
Not sure about the Anglos or the Saxons but wasn't English derived from a German Tribe - Engles.I think they came to the States and built a cabin in Minnesota - on the prarie by Lake Wobegone - you're welcome
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 07:13:16 PM
Cool vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 26, 2022, 09:32:19 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/62u4zj.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 09:46:03 PM
I always found it odd that a coworker, who was born in Cuba, and whose birth name was Guillermo, went by "Bill". I had no clue how you got from one to the other. 

I had never known that Guillermo is the Spanish version of Guillaume, which is the French version of William. Hence Guillermo was called Bill.
The father of one of my best friends, is named Guillermo, and we all call him Willy.

He's awesome, he's a former prison corrections officer that now owns a ton of property down in the Rio Grande Valley.  He's loaded and he doesn't trust banks, so he keeps a lot of his money under mattresses at some of his various homes.  He's got hundreds of thousands stashed under there.  One of the houses burned and he said he probably lost $100,000.  I believe him, I've seen some of those mattresses.  A few years back he gave each of his three kids $100,000 in cash.  Just because.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2022, 06:09:55 AM
There's an interesting reason that many Cuban's names being with the letter Y.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 07:39:44 AM
When Germany attacked France in 1940, they had fewer tanks than the French and their tanks were markedly inferior in size and weight versus most French tanks.  They had fewer men, artillery, planes, etc., and the French had the BEF present as an additional force, plus the Maginot Line (which "worked" tactically, if not strategically).

If you "game play" this battle, it's impossible to lose that fast as the French did with even moderate sense.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 08:26:37 AM
When Germany attacked France in 1940, they had fewer tanks than the French and their tanks were markedly inferior in size and weight versus most French tanks.  They had fewer men, artillery, planes, etc., and the French had the BEF present as an additional force, plus the Maginot Line (which "worked" tactically, if not strategically).

If you "game play" this battle, it's impossible to lose that fast as the French did with even moderate sense.
There were two main differences:

First, German tanks were massed into powerful spearheads that were able to smash through the French/British lines thus creating havoc in undefended rear areas and surround large troop formations. In contrast the more numerous French tanks were spread out along the whole line as infantry support weapons. The German method is how pretty much everybody utilizes tanks today but in 1940 the French didn't know that.

Second, the Luftwaffe's planes and pilots were newer, better, and far better integrated with the ground forces than their allied counterparts.

German unit coordination in 1940 was not nearly as advanced as Soviet let alone American coordination would be by 1945 but it was vastly better than the French and British of 1940.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 08:30:58 AM
The German tanks also had radios, most French tanks did not.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 08:33:37 AM
The German tanks also had radios, most French tanks did not. 
Needed for unit coordination. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 08:49:57 AM
We visited the Maginot Line a few years back.  It's not a "line" of course.  My wife was chagrined when our guide said the bonds were not paid off  until 1975.  They had a special tax on income to pay for it.  The "line" (ligne) was intended to prevent a German incursion directly into France using a minimum of manpower.  Fortifications are obviously a manpower multiplier.  And the French lost the best part of a generation in WW One and the Germans were out populating them with younger men.

French tanks were devised to have one man in the turret doing three jobs in effect which was inefficient.  One of the best early war tanks was French, they call tanks a "char", much as the German term is Panzer.  This is the Somua S35, you can see how small the turret is.  It had a decent gun and good armor for 1940.  The Germans relied heavily on their Panzer II light tank, and the Czech made tanks they "stole" from that country.

(https://i.imgur.com/expXSiE.png)

The Maginot Line is worth visiting if you're near Strasbourg.  Parts had a rail line running in it, hospitals, dining halls, barracks.  The forts were interconnected, mostly, so troops could be transferred to a point of attack as needed.  It's a hilly area and the artillery emplacements were generally on top of hills.

The original German plan was a replay of WW One, but a German plan with said plans was lost over Belgium, and Manstein proposed another plan which Hitler adopted to slice through the Ardennes south of the main French armies.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 10:36:54 AM
We visited the Maginot Line a few years back.  It's not a "line" of course.  My wife was chagrined when our guide said the bonds were not paid off  until 1975.  They had a special tax on income to pay for it.  The "line" (ligne) was intended to prevent a German incursion directly into France using a minimum of manpower.  Fortifications are obviously a manpower multiplier.  And the French lost the best part of a generation in WW One and the Germans were out populating them with younger men.

French tanks were devised to have one man in the turret doing three jobs in effect which was inefficient.  One of the best early war tanks was French, they call tanks a "char", much as the German term is Panzer.  This is the Somua S35, you can see how small the turret is.  It had a decent gun and good armor for 1940.  The Germans relied heavily on their Panzer II light tank, and the Czech made tanks they "stole" from that country.

(https://i.imgur.com/expXSiE.png)

The Maginot Line is worth visiting if you're near Strasbourg.  Parts had a rail line running in it, hospitals, dining halls, barracks.  The forts were interconnected, mostly, so troops could be transferred to a point of attack as needed.  It's a hilly area and the artillery emplacements were generally on top of hills.

The original German plan was a replay of WW One, but a German plan with said plans was lost over Belgium, and Manstein proposed another plan which Hitler adopted to slice through the Ardennes south of the main French armies.
I'd like to see that someday.  

The main WWII tourism trips that I want to do are:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 11:08:56 AM
I've been to 2 and 3.  On my list is the tank museum at Bovington, I've been to the one in Saumur twice nice, it's fantastic.  There is another in Russia and one developing in Columbus, GA we'll visit "soon".

Our subs did choke the Japanese, in addition to sinking their largest carrier (which was not a very good carrier).  But ultimately our ground forces had to take ground, and did.  I'd like to visit Guadalcanal some day, but it's a tough one.  My Dad was based there for a while.

The Normandy beaches are worth visiting along with the Omaha Cemetery, and the Belleau Wood cemetery is also worth a visit near Chateau Thierry.

I've been to every major Civil War battlefield except Shiloh.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 27, 2022, 11:14:09 AM
I've been to Normandy and the Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor.  Very sobering.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2022, 11:29:10 AM
I've been to every major Civil War battlefield except Shiloh.
When i was a kid quite often id go to Johnson's Island Confederate Prison/Cemetary in the middle of Sandusky Bay on Lake Erie .The folks had a place on MarbleHead and I'd spend summers up there,when i wasn't back in CLE playing ball.There was a quarry on the Island we'd go swimming and fool around with the girls.Now it's all built up and surrounded with very luxurious homes.Won't let commoners like me around there,feel like an Erie Indian that got the boot - Bastages
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 11:35:48 AM
Our subs did choke the Japanese, in addition to sinking their largest carrier (which was not a very good carrier).  But ultimately our ground forces had to take ground, and did.  
The story of that really explains how bad things were for Japan and how strong the US Submarines were.  Shinano was barely out of view of the Japanese coast and yet  the Japanese were unable to protect it from the US Submarines.  
I'd like to visit Guadalcanal some day, but it's a tough one.  My Dad was based there for a while.
Wow, that is a great personal connection to have to such an important battle.  Guadalcanal is also a lot more interesting to me than later battles because it occurred at a time when the forces were closely matched such that it could have gone either way.  This is not to minimize the valor of the Marines who landed on later beaches such as Saipan, Iowa Jima, and Okinawa it is just to point out that if the men who landed on those islands had failed the US would simply have landed more men.  Guadalcanal was different.  Both the US and Japan had serious limitations to their ability to land and supply men on the island.  If those guys had failed, we'd have lost the island.  
I've been to every major Civil War battlefield except Shiloh.
Civil War history is another interest of mine but I have only been to a handful of Civil War Battlefields.  I've been to Gettysburg in part because it is not too far and in part because my Great-Great Grandfather's brother (my great-great-great Uncle) was killed there on July 3, 1863 and is buried in the Cemetery not too far from where Lincoln gave his famous speech (something he said that history would little note nor long remember, LoL).  

I've been to Andersonville but it was as a young child in the back seat and restless/annoyed that we weren't moving on toward Florida so I didn't really appreciate it.  

I also visited a site outside of Atlanta where my Great-Great Grandfather was wounded.  His is a fascinating story and he wrote a diary which my family published back in the 1980's.  Anyway, I was in Atlanta for Ohio State's appearance in the 2007 Final Four and after the Buckeyes won the semi-final on Saturday I had a couple days to kill so I wanted to go see where my ancestor was wounded.  

Funny story about that:
So I was dressed head-to-toe in tOSU gear because I was there for the Final Four.  I got to the battlefield and went to the Ranger to find out where my 2-great grandfather's unit had been.  The ranger was very helpful at first and asked what unit.  I told him, "79th OVI" (79th Ohio Volunteer Infantry) and he grumbled something then "Sherman, burned Atlanta to the ground" to which I responded, "It was 150 years ago!"  They aren't over it down there.  

Anyway, I found the spot and it was amazing.  You learn why they make soldiers out of YOUNG guys.  The Union forces were in a tree line while the Confederates were dug in atop a "mountain" with artillery.  Between the Union's tree line and the base of the mountain was a field probably 1/2 mile wide.  So the Union officers came up with an astoundingly simplistic plan and ordered their troops to:
Unsurprisingly this ingenious plan failed spectacularly.  Worse, it was all a complete waste of time because the next night the Confederates abandoned the position due to the Union Line elsewhere advancing to the point that they were in danger of been surrounded.  

My point about young guys as soldiers is that only an 18 to about 22 year old guy would hear those orders and think "Ok, I'm going to go kick their ass".  Anybody older than that would immediately realize the folly of it.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2022, 11:44:51 AM
My point about young guys as soldiers is that only an 18 to about 22 year old guy would hear those orders and think "Ok, I'm going to go kick their ass".  Anybody older than that would immediately realize the folly of it. 
Well, you know the old line that young men of that age are "young, dumb, and full of ____"...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2022, 11:45:51 AM
I've reached an age where I get the idea that I was facing a choice...

Become interested in arcane military history, or take up golf. 

You can see which way I went. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2022, 11:46:54 AM

I also visited a site outside of Atlanta where my Great-Great Grandfather was wounded.  His is a fascinating story and he wrote a diary which my family published back in the 1980's.  Anyway, I was in Atlanta for Ohio State's appearance in the 2007 Final Four and after the Buckeyes won the semi-final on Saturday I had a couple days to kill so I wanted to go see where my ancestor was wounded. 

Shoot me a PM if it's in book form and could get thru the local library from search Ohio
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2022, 11:48:18 AM
I've reached an age where I get the idea that I was facing a choice...

Become interested in arcane military history, or take up golf.

You can see which way I went.
Yes you destroy score cards with lead
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2022, 12:09:51 PM
Yes you destroy score cards with lead
I keep score electronically on my phone.

Otherwise I might need to carry two pencils per round in case I wear one out :57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on January 27, 2022, 12:25:27 PM
I always found it odd that a coworker, who was born in Cuba, and whose birth name was Guillermo, went by "Bill". I had no clue how you got from one to the other. 

I had never known that Guillermo is the Spanish version of Guillaume, which is the French version of William. Hence Guillermo was called Bill.
Back in my graduate schools days, I studied a bunch of dead languages and I found it fascinating the evolution of sounds, letters, etc. and how names evolved between languages and how you could trace words between even seemingly unrelated or distantly related languages if you understood how the letters and sounds evolved. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 12:33:19 PM
The site in Atlanta was apparently Kennesaw Mountain, I presume.  There were other battles here that are now housed over, some historical markers are dotted about including one very near me.  Things in person have a different perspective for me versus studying even good maps.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 02:21:15 PM
The site in Atlanta was apparently Kennesaw Mountain, I presume.  There were other battles here that are now housed over, some historical markers are dotted about including one very near me.  Things in person have a different perspective for me versus studying even good maps.
Yes, it was and I agree wholeheartedly.  You don't really get a feel for how insane the charges were until you stand in that tree line and look at all of the ground the Union Soldiers were supposed to cover while climbing a mountain and being shot at.  It is the same at Gettysburg.  Reading about it or looking at pictures isn't the same as standing at The Angle and looking out across the vast field that the Confederates ran across while being mowed down in spectacular numbers by Union riflemen and Union cannons loaded with chains, rocks, and whatever else the Union Cannoneers could find (effectively turning a 4" smoothbore cannon into a giant shotgun.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 02:54:26 PM
Shoot me a PM if it's in book form and could get thru the local library from search Ohio
It looks like the Columbus Library has one but it is "in use":

https://cml.bibliocommons.com/v2/record/S105C981814 (https://cml.bibliocommons.com/v2/record/S105C981814)

Here is one for sale:

https://www.garrisonhousebooks.com/product/18804/Joshua-DeWees-His-Civil-War-Diary-Army-of-the-Cumberland-DeWees--Joseph-editor (https://www.garrisonhousebooks.com/product/18804/Joshua-DeWees-His-Civil-War-Diary-Army-of-the-Cumberland-DeWees--Joseph-editor)

I have his service record of his hanging in my office (will try to attach a picture).  

More on my 2-great grandfather Joshua DeWees:
Joshua was born in Ohio in 1843.  His father William died when he was a child.  He was raised Quaker.  The Quakers opposed slavery but they were also pacifists.  When the Civil War started he felt that sitting around a Meeting House (Quaker version of church) talking about ending slavery was somewhat less effective than joining the Union Army and going down South to free the slaves so he joined up.  

The Quaker Church excommunicated him for joining the Army.  That isn't really true, their term isn't "excommunicated", that is Catholic.  I actually don't know what their term is but Quakers are called "Friends" so I always say that they unfriended him, LoL.  

Joshua's brother Caleb was killed at Gettysburg.  I learned this from reading in Joshua's diary entry for July 5, 1863 that he "received a telegram that brother Caleb had been killed at Gettysburg".  My problem was that Joshua's language made that unclear.  I didn't know if he meant "Brother Caleb" as in "brother in the faith" like "Brother Nubbz" or if he meant his biological brother.  I spent an afternoon at the Historical Society in Columbus and discovered that a Caleb DeWees had served in the 73rd OVI and been killed at Gettysburg on July 3, 1863. 

There is a monument to the 73rd OVI (https://gettysburg.stonesentinels.com/union-monuments/ohio/73rd-ohio/) just South of Gettysburg off Taneytown Rd inside the Gettysburg National Cemetery where my 3-great Uncle Caleb is buried.  The 73rd OVI defended a section of the Union Line near Culps Hill just South of the small village of Gettysburg and not far from the home of Jenni Wade (the only civilian casualty at Gettysburg).  Jennie was killed while baking bread in her kitchen for the Union Soldiers and, for all I know, Caleb may have met her and/or eaten some of her bread because he was in that immediate vicinity.  

Joshua survived the war and had a son in the 1870's who was my great-grandfather.  His daughter was my grandmother (1909-2012) and her daughter (1944-present) is my mom.  In my copy of the diary I have a picture of my grandmother sitting on Joshua's knee and in the picture my grandmother appears to be about 4-5 years old so the picture was probably taken in 1913-1914ish.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2022, 03:18:00 PM
For a second I thought you wrote Joshua Tree thinking so that's where they got the name for the album and not some desert plant.That would be something if he had really eaten at Jenny Wade's house.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 03:27:40 PM
I've been to every major Civil War battlefield except Shiloh.
This is really neat.  I will say, it is easier for you in Atlanta since obviously most of the battles were fought in the South.  

The next two I really want to get to are Antietam and Perryville.  

Antietam:
The bloodiest day in American History.  This battle is much less well known than Gettysburg mostly because it was a less comprehensive Union victory but it had a major impact on history.  For one thing, just like Gettysburg about a year later, this battle was forced by the Union as a check on a Confederate invasion of the North.  Secondly, Lincoln had already written the Emancipation Proclamation but he and his Cabinet felt that releasing it would reek of desperation unless it could be released after a Union victory.  Antietam was somewhat inconclusive but that was good enough for Lincoln and the Proclamation was released September 22, 1862 - five days after the Battle.  

Perryville:
This battle has much less of a macro-strategic interest but it has a personal connection.  My 2-Great Grandfather Joshua fought there.  It was his first action.  The 97th OVI had mustered in on September 1, 1862 at Zanesville and was then sent to a camp outside Columbus for training.  About a month later Confederate Troops under Braxton Bragg invaded Kentucky hoping to trigger a secessionist takeover of that state.  Union commanders in the area were short on troops so Joshua's and his unit's training was cut short and they were put on a train bound for Cincinnati.  Then crossed the Ohio River to Covington on a steamboat then marched South.   - side note - 

If you've ever driven South out of Cincy on I71/I75 you know how ENORMOUS that hill is.  Every time I do that it amazes me that these guys did it in wool uniforms while carrying weapons, ammunition, food, etc.  I think I'd have gotten about half way up that hill and said "Why don't we just let them secede".  

Anyway, October 8, 1862 at the Battle of Perryville is listed on Joshua's service record as the first of his "156 days under fire".  

From what I've heard the annual reenactment at Perryville is one of the most well attended in the whole country largely due to the fact that it is one of the few northern battlefields so it is closer to all of the northern reenactors.  Since Joshua was actually there and he was a common soldier I also think that I could get a run of his diary printed up and probably sell them pretty easily at the reenactment.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 03:29:16 PM
Berry Oakley was killed in a motorcycle accident just three blocks from where Duane Allman was killed in a motorcycle accident.  They are buried next to each other.

Buried Here - Gregg Allman, Duane Allman And Berry Oakley (rockandrollroadmap.com) (https://rockandrollroadmap.com/places/burial-sites/other-u-s-locations/rose-hill-cemetery-buried-here-duane-allman-berry-oakey/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 03:30:19 PM
For a second I thought you wrote Joshua Tree thinking so that's where they got the name for the album and not some desert plant.That would be something if he had really eaten at Jenny Wade's house.
He may have but obviously it would be impossible to find out since neither he nor Ms. Wade survived the Battle and even if they had they wouldn't be around today since that was 150+ years ago.  I was actually at Gettysburg for the 150th anniversary on July 3, 2013 and there were more of us tourists there then than there were soldiers there in 1863.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 03:35:51 PM
My third book recounts what would have happened, maybe, at Gettysburg had Jackson lived.  In Book Two, he was saved by a slave from being shot.  I like irony.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on January 27, 2022, 04:08:29 PM
My third book recounts what would have happened, maybe, at Gettysburg had Jackson lived.  In Book Two, he was saved by a slave from being shot.  I like irony.
would they have gone to the right like Hood wanted
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 04:12:33 PM
In my recreation of history, the action was all on Day One, there was no Day Two, the Union forces fell back on Pipe Creek and did not hold the ridge line against Jackson's piecemeal late attack that afternoon.  The Pipe Creek line turned out to be impregnable to direct assault.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 04:19:42 PM
On This Day in History > January 27, 1785:
The Georgia General Assembly incorporated the University of Georgia. It was the first state-funded institution of higher learning in the new republic.

"When the University of Georgia was incorporated by an act of the General Assembly on January 27, 1785, Georgia became the first state to charter a state-supported university. In 1784 the General Assembly had set aside 40,000 acres of land to endow a college or seminary of learning.
At the first meeting of the board of trustees, held in Augusta on February 13, 1786, Abraham Baldwin was selected president of the University. Baldwin, a native of Connecticut and a graduate of Yale University who had come to Georgia in 1784, drafted the charter adopted by the General Assembly.
The University was actually established in 1801 when a committee of the board of trustees selected a land site. John Milledge, later a governor of the state, purchased and gave to the board of trustees the chosen tract of 633 acres on the banks of the Oconee River in northeast Georgia.
Josiah Meigs was named president of the University and work was begun on the first building, originally called Franklin College in honor of Benjamin Franklin and now known as Old College. The University graduated its first class in 1804.
The curriculum of traditional classical studies was broadened in 1843 to include courses in law, and again in 1872 when the University received federal funds for instruction in agriculture and mechanical arts."

(https://i.imgur.com/SKfAfgo.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2022, 05:13:00 PM
Florida's role in the Civil War was basically producing food for the South.  No real big battles.  The North kept Key West and Ft Jefferson (the one you can take a seaplane to now) the whole time.

The governor offed himself after the war. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: bayareabadger on January 27, 2022, 06:22:52 PM
I used to live in a town with a lot of 1870s architecture. For ... a reason. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2022, 06:29:11 PM
You guys might know this:  did Hitler have any inkling about the Japanese planning to bomb Pearl Harbor or any direct attack on the US?  
Did he even share his wishes of what their actions would be?  Did they give the Germans any 'heads up' on their actions or plans?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 10:59:59 PM
You guys might know this:  did Hitler have any inkling about the Japanese planning to bomb Pearl Harbor or any direct attack on the US? 
Did he even share his wishes of what their actions would be?  Did they give the Germans any 'heads up' on their actions or plans?
I don't know of anything specific that the Japanese gave to Hitler and they probably wouldn't have.  

They believed that secrecy was ABSOLUTELY paramount to the success of what they termed the "Hawaii Operation" and since the Germans couldn't really help them there would have been no reason to take the security risk of tipping them off just as a favor and for no real good reason.  

It was pretty widely believed that Japan would enter the war at some point but very few (if any) people outside of Japan actually knew when or where.  

One guy who is absolutely fascinating is a guy named Richard Sorge.  He was a German Communist and anti-Nazi who joined the Soviet Intelligence network.  Eventually he moved to Japan posing as a Nazi German Journalist and cultivated an astounding spy network mostly operating out of the German Embassy in Tokyo.  Sorge may not have known that the Japanese would hit Pearl Harbor specifically (I'm not sure and it didn't matter much to Stalin anyway).  What he DID know was that the Japanese were going to attack the US and occupy colonial possessions of the US, British, and Dutch and NOT attack the Soviet Union.  That information was passed along to Moscow and led to the Soviets retrieving an enormous number of troops that had been in the far Eastern Soviet Provinces as a screen against potential Japanese invasion.  Those troops got to Moscow and led the Soviet counter-offensive that removed the immediate threat of Nazi occupation of the Soviet Capital.  Interestingly, the Soviet counter-offensive started at almost exactly the same time as the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor which demonstrates that the Soviets pulled the troops BEFORE Japan went to war with the US.  In turn that demonstrates that the Soviets did it based on the information provided by their spies not waiting for the outbreak of hostilities.  

The (short) background is that the Soviets and Japanese had fought an undeclared war along the frontier between Japanese Manchuko (Manchuria) and the Soviet Union in the 1930's.  The Soviets pretty well kicked the Japanese asses (which should have told the Japanese that their Army wasn't really up to first world standards) but in spite of that the Soviets still felt the need to maintain a substantial army in the area in case the Japanese decided to restart hostilities.  That is until Richard Sorge notified them that the Japanese had no such intention.  

The Germans and Japanese were allies of convenience and nothing more.  They were in a somewhat forced marriage by virtue of having a lot of common enemies but they didn't actually like each other.  Hitler had declared that the Japanese were "Honorary Aryans" but he didn't actually believe it.  Hitler, of course, believed in Aryan supremacy and the Japanese were obviously NOT Aryan.  On the flip side it is largely forgotten today but the Japanese were no less racist than the Nazis, just in favor of a different race, their own.  The Japanese believed that their race was superior to all others.  This belief clouded their Army leaders' judgement to an incredible degree.  When confronted with massively superior numbers of more well trained and supplied enemies the Japanese Army higher-ups basically said "well beat them with your Japanese superiority" thus consigning literally millions of Japanese troops to their deaths in actions against ridiculous odds.  

A curious side note:
Japan's capture of Singapore from the British was a massive embarrassment for the British.  The British actually had superior numbers and most Europeans of the day considered Europeans to be superior to "mere" Asians such as the Japanese.  When this happened Hitler's Foreign Minister, Von-Ribbentrop wanted to use it as Propaganda against the British but Hitler forbid it because he felt that the British were fellow Aryans and that any Aryan embarrassment at the hands of "mere" Asians was an embarrassment to all Aryans.  

Think about that for a minute:  At that time Hitler was fighting a desperate war against Britain, the Soviet Union, AND the United States in which he needed any possible advantage that he could get and yet he forbid his underlings to make propaganda use of a startling embarrassment to his longest-standing enemy.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2022, 11:26:50 PM
Percival surrendered 81,000 troops at Singapore to 34,000 IJF and they were almost completely out of ammo.But he didn't know that,but he really had no reinforcement to speak of with the RAF and RN not in the immediate vicinity.The IJF didn't have much back up around either so ya the crown losing face.Since 1940  British Empire forces "evacuated" from Norway, Netherlands,Belgium and France,Dunkirk.  1941  Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya. 1942  Singapore,Dieppe and Tobruk.What's that 0-11 or sum such
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2022, 12:32:14 AM
I recently watched a video about that Singapore siege.......the Japanese traversed some difficult "we dont' have to worry about it" terrain (according to the Brits) on bikes, apparently.  Once they popped out from that surprise location, it was too big a disadvantage to recover from.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 08:14:56 AM
Not buying that they had over a 2:1 advantage in infantry the Aritsocrats are/were great at deflecting blame/responibility and were out commanded.The IJF were just as far from their base of supply as the BEF and out of ammo.Ludendorf in WW1 said the British are lions led by jackasses,which in the close to 30 books I've read on the war seems to be accurate.Many of their royals have had titles assigned to them at birth along with a manor or two and an estate. That substance doesn't carry over in directing battlefield operations though with those creeky nobility names - Viscounts,Earls,Dukes - they bullshit themselves into believing it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 08:33:20 AM
A myth about Singapore was that the big British guns all faced seaward and couldn't be turned about.  Reality was they could, but they had mostly armor piercing ammunition, not useful against a ground force.

The Russians had a heads up about Pearl Harbor, I don't think the Germans did.  The Russians started moving troops from Siberia to Moscow early because of this and blunted the last gasp German offensive, and pushed them back some.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 08:38:09 AM
If FDR had gotten wind of this I wonder how many Studebakers,cases of spam and army boots would have made it to Georgy Zhukov
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 09:12:01 AM
We weren't yet aiding the Russians.

One real oddity about aid to Russia is that Russian cargo ships carried it across the Pacific to Vlad without fear of Japanese interception.  All you needed was a reflagged Russian cargo ship and the Japanese wouldn't touch it.  Of course, then the Russkis had to move the stuff across Siberia to the front.

The Russo-Japanese war of 1937 taught the Japanese a real lesson.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 09:44:55 AM
In lend lease the USA sent 12-1300 locomotives also.After Stalin died there was a brief easing up of tensions and both Zhukov and Khrushchev thanked IKE as POTUS for the massive aide,quite a productive country back in the day.The thing with fighting the IJF was it was different island fighting and damn sure Naval Warfare and logistics,something the Reds never really had
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 10:12:02 AM
Politicians require there be enemies, if one does not exist one is created.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2022, 10:16:13 AM
Politicians require there be enemies, if one does not exist one is created.
We've always been at war with Eastasia. Or Eurasia. I forget.

Now everyone get ready for your Two Minutes Hate!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 10:32:27 AM
Percival surrendered 81,000 troops at Singapore to 34,000 IJF and they were almost completely out of ammo.But he didn't know that,but he really had no reinforcement to speak of with the RAF and RN not in the immediate vicinity.The IJF didn't have much back up around either so ya the crown losing face.Since 1940  British Empire forces "evacuated" from Norway, Netherlands,Belgium and France,Dunkirk.  1941  Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya. 1942  Singapore,Dieppe and Tobruk.What's that 0-11 or sum such
"Darkest Hour" is not just a phrase.  The Norway debacle led to the "Norway Debate" in the House of Commons which resulted in Chamberlin stepping down.  Churchill then took over just in time for the German invasion of Western Europe which was a MUCH worse debacle for the British than Norway had been.  They lost their only ally (France) and saw German troops advance practically to within sight of their island.  

Dunkirk was somewhat of a bright spot but wars are not won by evacuations . . .  Except that they kinda are.  The troops pulled out of France at Dunkirk were Britain's most experienced troops.  They formed the nucleus of the force that would return almost exactly four years later at Normandy.  

You mentioned Tobruk and the North Africa Campaign is fascinating.  The opposing forces advanced and retreated then retreated and advanced, then advanced and retreated again over staggering distances.  

Fundamentally wars are won and lost on logistics.  North Africa was no exception.  The Italians and Germans had a lot shorter distance to cover and the Italian Navy, on paper, was a powerful force to be reckoned with.  In reality the Italian Navy spent most of the war confined to home ports for lack of fuel.  Italy's fuel situation was even worse than Germany's as they were dependent on the fuel-starved Germans for oil for their ships.  

For the British (and later also the US) the logistical problems were distance and U-Boats.  North Africa is a REALLY long way from North America/Britain and the Mediterranean was crawling with U-Boats.  

The final downfall was not until late Spring of 1945 but all plausible Axis chances were extinguished not long after the calendar turned from 1942 to 1943.  At about that time the Soviet Operation Uranus surrounded the entire German sixth Army at Stalingrad and almost simultaneously the British and Americans captured almost 300k axis troops in North Africa.  The Germans simply couldn't recover from losses on that scale.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 10:33:13 AM
If FDR had gotten wind of this I wonder how many Studebakers,cases of spam and army boots would have made it to Georgy Zhukov
He did and they did.  The Russians were the recipients of a staggering amount of US Lend-Lease aid.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 10:37:41 AM
In lend lease the USA sent 12-1300 locomotives also.After Stalin died there was a brief easing up of tensions and both Zhukov and Khrushchev thanked IKE as POTUS for the massive aide,quite a productive country back in the day.The thing with fighting the IJF was it was different island fighting and damn sure Naval Warfare and logistics,something the Reds never really had
US Gross Product entering WWII was roughly 50% of global Gross Product and it remained around that into the 1950's.  That is just staggering to think about.  Literally half of EVERYTHING made in the world was made in the US.  

Oil was obviously the biggest single factor in WWII and at the time of WWII the US produced around 2/3 of the total world oil supply.  Japanese ships and German Tanks were continually halted by lack of fuel but the Allies only ever experienced that situation as a temporary local issue, never as an overall shortage.  

At the end of WWII if there had been a massive Naval Battle pitting the US Fleet against the rest of the World's combined Navies the rest of the world would have been hopelessly outnumbered.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 10:41:21 AM
One other advantage we had was high octane aviation fuel.  The Germans couldn't make it.  It depended on TEL (lead) in part and branched octane.  

Jimmy Doolittle was also a PhD chemical engineer who was VP of research at Shell Chemical in Houston.  They have an enormous research facility in Westhollow they wanted to name after him, but didn't for some reason.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 11:13:04 AM
One other advantage we had was high octane aviation fuel.  The Germans couldn't make it.  It depended on TEL (lead) in part and branched octane. 

Jimmy Doolittle was also a PhD chemical engineer who was VP of research at Shell Chemical in Houston.  They have an enormous research facility in Westhollow they wanted to name after him, but didn't for some reason.
If you want to read a LOT more about oil (and sub-categories like the high-octane gasoline you just mentioned) in WWII, click on this link (https://www.usmcu.edu/portals/218/Oil&War_Web.pdf).  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 12:24:48 PM
Politicians require there be enemies, if one does not exist one is created.
Kinda like Football
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 12:28:58 PM
For the British (and later also the US) the logistical problems were distance and U-Boats.  North Africa is a REALLY long way from North America/Britain and the Mediterranean was crawling with U-Boats. 

I was watching special on submarine warfare in WW2 and according from what they said none of the U-Boats returned from the Med.Still out on patrol
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 12:37:09 PM
US Gross Product entering WWII was roughly 50% of global Gross Product and it remained around that into the 1950's.  That is just staggering to think about.  Literally half of EVERYTHING made in the world was made in the US. 

Oil was obviously the biggest single factor in WWII and at the time of WWII the US produced around 2/3 of the total world oil supply.  Japanese ships and German Tanks were continually halted by lack of fuel but the Allies only ever experienced that situation as a temporary local issue, never as an overall shortage. 

At the end of WWII if there had been a massive Naval Battle pitting the US Fleet against the rest of the World's combined Navies the rest of the world would have been hopelessly outnumbered. 
From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p. 633 What Churchill called the American "prodigy of organization" had shipped 18 million tons of war supplies to Europe,equivalent to the cargo in 3,600 Liberty Ships or 181,000 rail cars from 800,000 military vehicles to footwear.U.S munitions plants had turned out 40 Billion small arms ammunition,56 million grenades,500 million machine gun bullets & 23 million artillary rounds .By 1945 the USA had built 2/3 rds of all ships afloat and was making half of all manufactured goods in the world including half of all armaments.The enemy was crushed by logistical brilliance,yet the War absorbed barely 1/3rd of American gross domestic product
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 12:42:11 PM
It is tough to comprehend how fast GM et al. changed over to making planes and tanks.  The TBF became the TBM in short order because GM built it.  We had locomotive companies building tanks, along with Ford et al.  And the ammunition, vast hoards of it.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 12:44:38 PM
If you want to read a LOT more about oil (and sub-categories like the high-octane gasoline you just mentioned) in WWII, click on this link (https://www.usmcu.edu/portals/218/Oil&War_Web.pdf). 
https://www.e-education.psu.edu/egee120/book/export/html/237
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 12:46:52 PM
It is tough to comprehend how fast GM et al. changed over to making planes and tanks.  The TBF became the TBM in short order because GM built it.  We had locomotive companies building tanks, along with Ford et al.  And the ammunition, vast hoards of it.
What's that stand for?

Willow run plant in Michigan kicking out 1 B-24 every 63 minutes.I think there were 4 more B-24 plants
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 12:53:50 PM
The TBM was a torpedo bomber, it may stand for that with the M for GM.  They given name was Avenger.  There were six of them on Midway Island during the attack.

The carriers still had the old Devastators.  They were awful.  Japanese planes had longer range than US planes in 1942, in part due to having little to no armor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 01:17:54 PM
The 1972 Sugar Bowl featured Oklahoma and Penn State.  OU won, and lost.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 02:29:10 PM
The TBM was a torpedo bomber, it may stand for that with the M for GM.  They given name was Avenger.  There were six of them on Midway Island during the attack.

The carriers still had the old Devastators.  They were awful.  Japanese planes had longer range than US planes in 1942, in part due to having little to no armor.
When I first started learning about WWII and for year afterward I never read WHY the Japanese planes had little-to-no armor and also lacked self sealing tanks.  I always assumed the lack of armor was to save weight and it was but I had no idea why they didn't have self sealing tanks and just assumed that they didn't have the technology.  

Not so.  The Japanese were perfectly capable of making self sealing tanks and they posessed the natural rubber necessary to do so.  They CHOSE not to because the self-sealing bags take up space and weight and thus reduce fuel capacity which in turn reduces range.  

The Zero had a range that was astonishing by 1941 standards mostly due to being light and NOT having self-sealing tanks.  Here are some performance stats for the Zero and the Wildcat which were roughly contemporaries:

The Zero had a 940 hp twin-row 14 cylinder radial engine of 1,687 cuin while the Wildcat had a 1,200 hp twin-row 14 cylinder radial engine of 1,829 cuin.  The Zero substantially outclimbed the Wildcat despite having a deficit of 260 hp because of weight:

The Zero simply weighed a LOT less.  It was also more heavily armed with two 7.7 mm (roughly .30 cal) machine guns and 2 20 mm cannons compared to the Wildcat's four .50 cal machine guns.  The Browning .50 cal guns were a bit bigger than the Zero's 7.7 mm's but barely over half the size of the Zero's 20 mm cannons.  


Interestingly, the entire Japanese Military seems to have designed and built basically everything with the same "offense first" mentality that simply ignored defense and survivability in order to maximize offensive potential.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 02:52:20 PM
I know the hell cats were a step up in the measureables,machine and technology from the WCs. The F-4 Corsair had problems landing on carriers later corrected with like a relief valve in the stabilizer landing gear to prevent the plane from bouncing up/down flight deck sometimes going over board.The brits actually learned to land them like cross wind because the nose was so long the pilot couldn't see where he was going.Also the Marines were mostly land based so thier pilots loved the Corsair that could fly around 450mph
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 02:59:10 PM
Interestingly, the entire Japanese Military seems to have designed and built basically everything with the same "offense first" mentality that simply ignored defense and survivability in order to maximize offensive potential. 
A great example of this is what happened at Midway.  The Japanese lost four carriers but when you look closer none of the hits that they took would have been likely to be fatal to an equivalent American carrier.  All four were essentially lost to poor design and poor damage control.  

Kaga:
None of these did any structural damage to the watertight integrity but they started fires on the hangar decks that ultimately blew up all the bombs and torpedos stored there along with a massive amount of avgas.  It was the fires that doomed Kaga.  

Akagi:
None of these did any structural damage to the watertight integrity but the ONE hit started fires that the crew proved unable to control and a near-miss aft eventually caused the rudder to jam thus making the ship uncontrollable.  The ship was scuttled.  

Hiryu:
Again, none of these did any structural damage to the watertight integrity but they started fires that the crew couldn't control and the ship was scuttled.  

Soryu:
Again, none of these did any structural damage to the watertight integrity but they started fires that the crew couldn't control and the ship was scuttled.  

Now compare that to the one American Carrier sunk at Midway:
Yorktown:
First, Yorktown took at 550 lb bomb hit at Coral Sea along with "up to 12 near misses" that damaged the hull below the waterline.  This damage was NOT fully repaired in time for the Battle of Midway but the Carrier was badly needed so it was sent out anyway basically with duct tape over the holes and repair crews still aboard.  

Next at Midway:
They repaired that damage and resumed flight operations, then:
The torpedos Obviously did major damage to watertight integrity and the ship was abandoned but remained afloat so a salvage party was sent back aboard to try to save the ship, then:


Yorktown absorbed about as much explosives as all four Japanese Carriers combined.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 03:15:51 PM
I know the hell cats were a step up in the measureables,machine and technology from the WCs. The F-4 Corsair had problems landing on carriers later corrected with like a relief valve in the stabilizer landing gear the plane would bounce up/down flight deck sometimes going over board.The brits actually learned to land them like cross wind because the nose was so long the pilot couldn't see where he was going.Also the Marines were mostly land based so thier pilots loved the Corsair that could fly around 450mph
The Corsair is my all-time favorite plane mostly because my great-aunt worked at the Blimp Building in Akron building them during WWII.  The Corsair was a Vought plane but during the war they were also built by Brewster and Goodyear.  The Vought planes were F4U's while the Brewster planes were F3A's and the Goodyear machines were FG's.  My great-aunt helped build the FG's.  

Truly an amazing plane:

It was also HIGHLY accomplished in a fighter-bomber role.  

The story of the Brits figuring out how to land it on carriers is interesting to say the least.  It was designed to be a carrier-based fighter bomber (could carry 4,000 lbs of bombs) but the US Navy at first rejected it because of the site-line issue that you pointed out.  The Brits REALLY liked the plane to they set about figuring out how to get around that issue and succeeded.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 03:37:37 PM
Dick Best,Dusty Kleiss and a 3rd Pilot whose name escapes me hit 3 of the 4 carriers at The Battle of Midway.Talk about balls and being cool customers with ice running thru their veins
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 03:51:34 PM
Dick Best,Dusty Kleiss and a 3rd Pilot whose name escapes me hit 3 of the 4 carriers at The Battle of Midway.Talk about balls and being cool customers with ice running thru their veins
One of them (I forget which) was only hit because Best had the presence of mind to switch targets when he saw that his initial target was already in flames.  Otherwise the morning attack would have only sunk two of the four Japanese Carriers.  Later that day the one remaining Japanese Carrier fatally damaged Yorktown in return for being fatally damaged herself.  If two had survived the morning . . .
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2022, 05:21:04 PM
...we would've dropped 3 bombs on 'em!  Fat Man, Little Boy, and Goldilocks!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 05:22:04 PM
US carriers would flood gasoline lines with nitrogen when at GQ, the Japanese didn't.  

They did add a lot of armor to the Yamato class battleship.  They probably could have built 4-5 fleet carriers for one Yamato.

The Germans almost finished their own fleet carrier late in the war, as if it could possibly have helped them at all.  They had some really poor direction of war material production especially before Speer took the job.  The Russians built two basic tanks,  the T-34 in great numbers and the heavier KV series that was the basis for the JS-2 Stalin tank.  The Germans scattered their efforts over many platforms including some truly enormous tanks never finished.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 05:23:53 PM
One of them (I forget which) was only hit because Best had the presence of mind to switch targets when he saw that his initial target was already in flames.  Otherwise the morning attack would have only sunk two of the four Japanese Carriers.  Later that day the one remaining Japanese Carrier fatally damaged Yorktown in return for being fatally damaged herself.  If two had survived the morning . . .
27 planes went after the kaga ,3 went after the Akagi.The weird thing was their timing was perfect but not planned pretty much improvised on a whim.A supremely great call by Commander Wade McCluskie.The IJF Fliers had just got back from bombing Mid Way and torpedo and dive bombers were right on the decks - ripe for the picking. Here is a great Docu from the US Naval War College of Maritme History

https://youtu.be/wyFZ3cJRrcg

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 05:28:34 PM
The Germans almost finished their own fleet carrier late in the war, as if it could possibly have helped them at all.  They had some really poor direction of war material production especially before Speer took the job.  The Russians built two basic tanks,  the T-34 in great numbers and the heavier KV series that was the basis for the JS-2 Stalin tank.  The Germans scattered their efforts over many platforms including some truly enormous tanks never finished.
The Russians loved the Sherman as it was dependable,the T-34 carried 2 trannys on board.The T-34 also had the American Christie suspension system in it. I wonder how CWS is missing all of this
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 05:34:55 PM
I rewatched part of the new Midway movie and once again found it to be awful.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 05:37:19 PM
The T-34 was a good tank, generally, much better than anything the Germans had in 1941.  The Sherman was very reliable, but it was not on scene in 1941, we were starting making the Grant/Lee tanks then which had no turret.  The Panther design was influenced by the T-34 features.  The early versions of it were not reliable either.

There is a neat video about the "best tank of WW 2" I'll try and find.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 05:41:36 PM
The Best Tank of World War 2 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNGfHEhtng)

This is pretty funny, I think.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 05:42:43 PM
I rewatched part of the new Midway movie and once again found it to be awful.
That's not the movie though it's pictured
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 05:46:28 PM
That's not the movie though it's pictured
I know.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2022, 06:30:09 PM
Tank talk?

This was one of my favorite video games as a kid.

(https://i.imgur.com/hPCmk8z.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2022, 08:01:27 AM
The Russians loved the Sherman as it was dependable,the T-34 carried 2 trannys on board.The T-34 also had the American Christie suspension system in it. I wonder how CWS is missing all of this
Russians didn't expect their tanks to last long in battle, so they crudely threw them out there almost as fodder to overwhelm the Germans.  The T-34-85 was used in the Korean War by the North with good early effect.

I read somewhere one reason the Roman Legions were so effective was hygeine, they'd put their latrines away from camp and any waterway.  The other armies would congregate and basically get sick and lose many effectives.  This happened in the US Civil War because city folks had different resistance to disease than country folks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2022, 08:33:11 AM
The Marshall Court, 1801-1835 | The Supreme Court Historical Society (supremecourthistory.org) (https://supremecourthistory.org/history-of-the-court-history-of-the-courts/history-of-the-court-history-of-the-courts-the-marshall-court-1801-1835/#:~:text=Marshall found an escape from,an Act of Congress)

I recently read a biography of Marshall, very interesting to me.  The country was very unsettled, ha, back then as well.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2022, 10:21:19 AM
Tank talk?

This was one of my favorite video games as a kid.

(https://i.imgur.com/hPCmk8z.png)

Did you ever play games like Tank Wars or Scorched Earth?

They were simple 2D battlefields where you'd select power, angle, and weapon, and try to blow up the other tanks.

(https://i.imgur.com/fpi8Wye.png)x

When I was in high school I took a Computer Science class. Once I got through the first day and looked at the syllabus, I knew it was a joke. Basically you start with a simple concept like a loop, learn it, and then spend the next three weeks "practicing" before moving on to the next concept.

So I knew working at that pace would drive me batty. So I looked at the "final project" requirements, and it was just that you had to write a program that incorporated all of the various programming elements you spent the semester "practicing". The kind of program that you or I could write in about 30 minutes would satisfy the requirements. 

I said screw that, and immediately started working on writing a version of this game for the Apple IIgs. I can't recall whether it was in BASIC or in Pascal, but it incorporated terrain, three different weapon sizes, wind, etc.

I wish I had actual photos or video of the final product, but alas that was before digital photography was much of a thing, and long before we all carried cellphone cameras...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 10:36:02 AM
Yup I definitely played those games, and I recall you talking about the one you created.

It's interesting and not all that surprising, because I too wrote a similar game, but it was a Lunar Lander knockoff.  I did when I had my Atari 400 and it was definitely written in BASIC, I didn't learn Pascal until a few years later.  I was able to save it permanently on my tape drive and reload it whenever I wanted to fire it up again, which was a big deal! :)

(https://i.imgur.com/tJgBsrW.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: bayareabadger on January 29, 2022, 10:37:14 AM


I said screw that, and immediately started working on writing a version of this game for the Apple IIgs. I can't recall whether it was in BASIC or in Pascal, but it incorporated terrain, three different weapon sizes, wind, etc.
Tell me you were destined for engineering without telling me you were destined for engineering. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 10:39:42 AM
You can't spell geek without EE.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2022, 11:37:47 AM
Oh man, I remember a game like that.  It wasn't tanks, just different-colored bases and you'd try to kill the others with crazy weapons by gauging the arc of the shot, etc.

We played that for hours!!! 

edit:
(Scorched Earth!!!!)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 29, 2022, 02:58:12 PM
Which one famously had that "All your base are belong to us"?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2022, 03:16:13 PM
Yup I definitely played those games, and I recall you talking about the one you created.

It's interesting and not all that surprising, because I too wrote a similar game, but it was a Lunar Lander knockoff.  I did when I had my Atari 400 and it was definitely written in BASIC, I didn't learn Pascal until a few years later.  I was able to save it permanently on my tape drive and reload it whenever I wanted to fire it up again, which was a big deal! :)

(https://i.imgur.com/tJgBsrW.png)


I remember the tape drive on my Commodore 64... Everyone other than the two of us probably doesn't realize that it was a standard cassette tape lol...

You could reload it whenever you wanted, as long as you let the tape run for ~25 minutes to advance to the point where it was stored!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 04:05:22 PM
I remember the tape drive on my Commodore 64... Everyone other than the two of us probably doesn't realize that it was a standard cassette tape lol...

You could reload it whenever you wanted, as long as you let the tape run for ~25 minutes to advance to the point where it was stored!

Ha!  Indeed.


Which one famously had that "All your base are belong to us"?

It was called "Zero Wing" but I don't recall ever playing it, I was pretty much done with video games by 1992, other than playing Doom on my PC.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 09:00:41 AM
One fellow somewhat forgotten in US histories is Charles Martel.  Had it not been for him, we might all be Muslims today.

Battle of Tours | Facts, History, & Importance | Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Tours-732)

Charles had a grandson is is far better known than he is.  Spain was totally recovered in 1492, a year more known for another event.  There later was a significant battle for Vienna that may have led to the croissant, or not.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 09:05:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/jHXRV4e.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 30, 2022, 09:32:32 AM
Didn't Eiffel's company erect the statue of liberty or sum such?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 09:56:13 AM
The copper statue, a gift from the people of France to the people of the United States, was designed by French sculptor Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi and its metal framework was built by Gustave Eiffel. The statue was dedicated on October 28, 1886. The statue is a figure of Libertas, a robed Roman liberty goddess.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 12:25:13 PM
I wish they'd paint Lady Liberty bronze, so we could see how that looks for awhile.  I guess it's not smart to spend the money, knowing how temporary it would be.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 12:26:16 PM
One fellow somewhat forgotten in US histories is Charles Martel.  Had it not been for him, we might all be Muslims today.

I always love ideas like this.  You guys may be Muslims in this alternate reality, but I'd still be an atheist.  
Or dead....depending on how orthodox you were.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 30, 2022, 12:38:42 PM
Fro would be parading around in a burqa, either voluntarily or involuntarily. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 30, 2022, 12:45:12 PM
One fellow somewhat forgotten in US histories is Charles Martel.  Had it not been for him, we might all be Muslims today.

Battle of Tours | Facts, History, & Importance | Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Tours-732)

Charles had a grandson is is far better known than he is.  Spain was totally recovered in 1492, a year more known for another event.  There later was a significant battle for Vienna that may have led to the croissant, or not. 
Some disagree but I believe that the Battle of Tours is the most consequential Battle in human history. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 01:25:49 PM
Some disagree but I believe that the Battle of Tours is the most consequential Battle in human history.
It certainly is one of, if not the.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 01:34:23 PM
Wow, you guys really hate Islam.

To me, it's just a newer poisonous, oppressive, invented, murderous, silly religion than the one that defeated the Umayyad that day(s).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 01:38:50 PM
Wow, you guys really hate Islam.

To me, it's just a newer poisonous, oppressive, invented, murderous, silly religion than the one that defeated the Umayyad that day(s).
Where here did anyone express hatred of Islam?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 01:39:03 PM
Why Did the Restoration of the Monarchy Happen? | History Hit (https://www.historyhit.com/return-of-the-king-why-the-restoration-happened/?fbclid=IwAR0-MPy_U9BBH8KKgkT1W26gyx089HvfEbZ0vznRdGgfcwMvaeTZ1jvv_dE)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 01:39:50 PM
Where here did anyone express hatred of Islam? 
Why else would that battle be so important in your eyes?  Your hatred of sandals?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 01:40:52 PM
It was obviously a major historic turning point, it has nothing to do with hatred to note that fact.

Nobody here expressed anything remotely like hatred of Islam, well, except for you.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 01:43:52 PM
I find Charles Martel interesting because of his influence on the course of history coupled with the fact I don't recall any of this being taught in history class, I could well have missed it.  I do recall some stuff about the Holy Roman Empire from history classes, along with the pithy quote about it.

I personally think it important to have some knowledge of pivotal moments and events in history.  This battle was one of them, simple as that.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 02:18:22 PM
As of 2018, the Haber process produces 230 million tonnes of anhydrous ammonia per year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia).[48] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-48) The ammonia is used mainly as a nitrogen fertilizer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilizers) as ammonia itself, in the form of ammonium nitrate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate), and as urea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea). The Haber process consumes 3–5% of the world's natural-gas production (around 1–2% of the world's energy supply).[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-Smil_2004_Enriching-4)[49] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-49)[50] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-50)[51] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-51) In combination with advances in breeding, herbicides and pesticides, these fertilizers have helped to increase the productivity of agricultural land:
Quote
With average crop yields remaining at the 1900 level[,] the crop harvest in the year 2000 would have required nearly four times more land[,] and the cultivated area would have claimed nearly half of all ice-free continents, rather than under 15% of the total land area that is required today.[52] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-Smil_2011-52)
The energy-intensivity of the process contributes to climate change and other environmental problems:
Since nitrogen use efficiency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_use_efficiency) is typically less than 50%,[54] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-Oenema_2009-54) farm runoff from heavy use of fixed industrial nitrogen disrupts biological habitats.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-Smil_2004_Enriching-4)[55] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-Howarth_2008-55)
Nearly 50% of the nitrogen found in human tissues originated from the Haber–Bosch process.[56] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-56) Thus, the Haber process serves as the "detonator of the population explosion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_overpopulation)", enabling the global population (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_population) to increase from 1.6 billion in 1900 to 7.7 billion by November 2018.[57] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-Smil_1999-57)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 03:55:49 PM
It was obviously a major historic turning point, it has nothing to do with hatred to note that fact.

Nobody here expressed anything remotely like hatred of Islam, well, except for you.
You get that it was a joke, right?
What would have been the "bad" outcome if that battle had turned out differently?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 04:43:54 PM
A joke or a poor effort to backtrack?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 06:06:40 PM
lol, backtrack what???

The joke was that the suggestion of the war going the other way would end in islam spreading to the western world instead of christianity and my failing to see the big difference.

Your suggesting it was a huge deal suggests you think all of you guys being muslim is worse than being christian.

Explaining this out is a waste of time, but for you, necessary.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on January 30, 2022, 06:45:43 PM
lol, backtrack what???

The joke was that the suggestion of the war going the other way would end in islam spreading to the western world instead of christianity and my failing to see the big difference.

Your suggesting it was a huge deal suggests you think all of you guys being muslim is worse than being christian.

Explaining this out is a waste of time, but for you, necessary.
only you would have come up with that point of view
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 07:08:17 PM
Oh, then I must be wrong.





LOL
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 07:40:48 PM
https://www.livescience.com/42716-epic-battles-that-changed-history.html

Interesting list I think.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 30, 2022, 09:13:02 PM
The 1922 MLB season is the only one when both leagues batting champions hit better than .400. In the National League St Louis Cardinals Rogers Hornsby hit .401 in the A.L. George Sisler of the St Louis Browns hit .420
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 30, 2022, 10:56:45 PM
Wow, you guys really hate Islam.

To me, it's just a newer poisonous, oppressive, invented, murderous, silly religion than the one that defeated the Umayyad that day(s).
If you want a serious answer to this question from the perspective of a highly anti-religious atheist please read some of what Christopher Hitchens had to say about Islam.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2007/07/why-are-we-so-scared-of-offending-muslims.html


 (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2007/07/why-are-we-so-scared-of-offending-muslims.html)Hitchens opposed all religions but he was smart enough to realize that they were not equally detrimental even though he believed that they were all detrimental. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 11:08:31 PM
Of course, he's speaking about here and now.  And he was right, as he usually was (not always).  

But if Christianity had its worst atrocities hundreds of years ago and Islam is hundreds of years younger than Christianity, is one not simply the younger brother following in his older brother's footsteps?

It doesn't help the victim today, but it doesn't make any sense to expect the younger religion to fast-forward its maturity/liberalism/evolution any faster than the older one.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 11:10:28 PM
It's the same god, following godawful books, and one has an extra messiah.  Neither has ever produced anything remotely close to actual evidence of a god.

They're the same bad idea, spaced 500 years apart.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 12:06:02 AM
No, it is not.

There are major fundamental differences between religions.

The chief one is that Christianity's founder never took up arms while Islam's founder was a conquering warlord. From that it is hardly surprising that Islam is basically custom designed for an armed camp with teachings such as the 72 virgins thing whereas Christianity teaches adherents to turn the other cheek.

Similarly Islam teaches adherents to be honest with each other where Christianity teaches adherents to be honest with everyone. 


They are not the same religion at different stages of development they are fundamentally different religions. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:40:52 AM
Weird history indeed.  I tend not to trust what adherents of one religion have to say about another, generally speaking.  Obviously, the battle of Tours, wherever it was, was historically significant and not taught in schools that I can recall.

When the Catholics cleared Spain of Muslims, they also cleared it of Jews, and many of the Jews went to Islamic regions, many of them well educated at the time.  They were able to live in a Muslim society quite well, back then.  The enmity between the two had not really taken hold until much later.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 08:11:22 AM
The popes in the middle ages told the Jewish Folks to join or else.Of course later they told Martin Luther to quit pointing out their hypocrisy and fall in line - basically the same thing.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 09:01:38 AM
We spent a week in Avignon where the popes lived for over a century, instead of Rome, and then there were two popes for a while.  We toured the palace of the popes there, it's large, and sort of dark and dingy.  Just north of there is some rather good wine the popes had a hand in starting.

It's surprising how few Jews live in the world today really considering their outsized influence on events and history.

Edit:  I suppose I should add I feel no animosity towards Jews, in case someone wanted to read that into my comments.  I probably should add the same for Muslims broadly speaking, and Christians, and Atheists, and Zoroastrians, etc.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 09:33:40 AM
 I read somewhere that there are between 14-17 million Jewish people living today.How they came to those numbers I haven't the foggiest. Earth Population is at like 7.9 billion. The article went on to say that Jewish People  were awarded like 1/4 of the Nobel Prizes given for Science/Medicine.If accurate that's pretty impressive
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 09:40:56 AM
I've read 20 million, it's still a tiny number.  There are a lot of Jews who are atheists/agnostics, in my experience, like Einstein for example (who did believe in a Creator).  They are not adherents to the religion itself but identify with the culture and heritage.  Of my Jewish acquaintances, NONE of them were religious.  One even went to a Jewish Temple for agnostics, I had never heard of such a thing.  It was about heritage.  

I suppose I am frightened of their space laser though.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 09:43:56 AM
Go to a Deli and have a Pastrami Sammich and don't worry about it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 09:44:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XzFLdBz.png)

The nine different ethnic groups of Bukovina region, (Austria-Hungary), 1902

From top left: Hutsul, Hungarian, Rom (Romani or Gypsy), Lipovan, Jew, Pole, Schwab, Romanian, Rusyn


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 09:45:12 AM
Go to a Deli and have a Pastrami Sammich and don't worry about it
Now I'm hungry.  I do enjoy a good Rueben.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 09:48:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/sDVLOoT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 09:49:12 AM
Now I'm hungry.  I do enjoy a good Rueben.
I believe a Reuben violates Kosher practices. Meat and dairy can't be together...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 09:52:36 AM
The nature of Kosher salt is interesting, to me, the salt itself isn't kosher (or not).  It relates to something else.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 09:53:01 AM
The nine different ethnic groups of Bukovina region, (Austria-Hungary), 1902

From top left: Hutsul, Hungarian, Rom (Romani or Gypsy), Lipovan, Jew, Pole, Schwab, Romanian, Rusyn
I had read during Roman times the people of what is Romania were so hostile and combative they were driven/removed from the area and replaced with Romans. I wonder if the people driven off turned into the group we now know as Gypsies
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 09:55:06 AM
I believe a Reuben violates Kosher practices. Meat and dairy can't be together...
They can't all be that religeous,we'll start our own affiliation - The Ruebens.What say you Brother Bwarb?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 10:00:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/sDVLOoT.png)
The Fillmore East?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 10:42:27 AM
Man I love a good reuben on marbled rye.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 11:15:28 AM
They can't all be that religeous,we'll start our own affiliation - The Ruebens.What say you Brother Bwarb?
I won't join any cult religion that doesn't allow beer or bacon, BTW. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2022, 11:23:39 AM
No, it is not.

There are major fundamental differences between religions.

The chief one is that Christianity's founder never took up arms while Islam's founder was a conquering warlord. From that it is hardly surprising that Islam is basically custom designed for an armed camp with teachings such as the 72 virgins thing whereas Christianity teaches adherents to turn the other cheek.

Similarly Islam teaches adherents to be honest with each other where Christianity teaches adherents to be honest with everyone.


They are not the same religion at different stages of development they are fundamentally different religions.
I'll bet you a dollar that in 500 years, Islam is harmless. 

And this is the most slanted comparison a person could write up in 2 minutes.  Thanks for proving my point. 

The 2 religions worship the same god, proclaim peace and love, and are literally traced back to 2 brothers!!!  They both believe in heaven and hell, both believe in Satan, both believe in the afterlife, both believe Jesus was born of a virgin and that Jesus will return.  Both religious texts promote spreading the religions and how is that done?  We all know - by force or murder.  They both advocate for women to dress modestly.  Christianity has evolved past this, gradually, over time. 

Anyone holding Christianity above Islam or better than Islam is taking a snapshot of a race where the 2 religions started 500 years apart.  Period.
Any horrific message you can find in the Quran you can easily find in the Bible.  Yet thanks to having a 500-year head start, many of us are able to ignore the absurdities and just plain errors in the Bible.  Today's Christitans have the luxury of cherry-picking because of that 500-year head start.

500 years from now, Islam will be radically more liberal.  Easily.  Obviously.  The orthodox followers will dwindle over time, just as they have in every other religion. 

There will be Saudi women in crescent moon bikinis drinking beer by then.  It's virtually certain.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2022, 11:24:44 AM
I won't join any cult religion that doesn't allow beer or bacon, BTW.
You'll be able to join Islam in 500 years or less.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 12:21:20 PM
I won't join any cult religion that doesn't allow beer or bacon, BTW.
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. - Groucho Marx (https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/groucho-marx-quotes)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 12:27:45 PM
I'll bet you a dollar that in 500 years, Islam is harmless. 

There will be Saudi women in crescent moon bikinis drinking beer by then.  It's virtually certain.
Should the Super Natural Big Guy,allow it I'll take the elevator down to your floor and show you that never happened.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 12:43:20 PM
Moot point anyway.

500 years from now, humanity and the world in general will be so radically transformed from what it is today that these discussions will make no sense.

The nature of technology is exponential. 500 years ago (roughly the time of Christopher Columbus sailin' the ocean blue), they might have recognized the general potential of the industrial revolution occurring. Do you think they could conceive of television? The internet? 

We basically started figuring out electricity in the second half of the 1800s. By just after 1900 we had demonstrated powered flight. By the 1940s our wars were fought with jet aircraft and rudimentary rockets. By 1970 we'd put a man on the moon. By today my watch triangulates my position based on satellites in space to tell me how far I am from the green on a golf course, with accuracy of ~1 yard. 

The electric telegraph came into use about the same time, mid-to-second half of the 1800s. The telephone's first proof of concept was in 1876. Another 25-30 years before radio came around. It wasn't until the 1930s that television made its appearance. From there we really only had marginal telecommunications change (making things better and cheaper) until the internet, which didn't really show up until the 1990s, but in 25 years has remade the entire world. 

In 500 years humanity will have either made ourselves extinct, or we'll have made ourselves superhumans via technology. 

But either way the concept of "Islam" or "Christianity" will be as relevant then as the concept of Zeus and Hera are now. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 12:44:26 PM
I'll bet you a dollar that in 500 years, Islam is harmless. 

And this is the most slanted comparison a person could write up in 2 minutes.  Thanks for proving my point. 

The 2 religions worship the same god, proclaim peace and love, and are literally traced back to 2 brothers!!!  They both believe in heaven and hell, both believe in Satan, both believe in the afterlife, both believe Jesus was born of a virgin and that Jesus will return.  Both religious texts promote spreading the religions and how is that done?  We all know - by force or murder.  They both advocate for women to dress modestly.  Christianity has evolved past this, gradually, over time. 

Anyone holding Christianity above Islam or better than Islam is taking a snapshot of a race where the 2 religions started 500 years apart.  Period.
Any horrific message you can find in the Quran you can easily find in the Bible.  Yet thanks to having a 500-year head start, many of us are able to ignore the absurdities and just plain errors in the Bible.  Today's Christitans have the luxury of cherry-picking because of that 500-year head start.

500 years from now, Islam will be radically more liberal.  Easily.  Obviously.  The orthodox followers will dwindle over time, just as they have in every other religion.

There will be Saudi women in crescent moon bikinis drinking beer by then.  It's virtually certain.
First your $1 bet is no different than a religious persons' affirmation of faith.  Since neither of us would be around to collect on the bet it is obviously rhetorical.  That said, I'd be inclined to agree.  

If I had proved your point you'd be able to refute something, anything that I said.  Since you can't, you apparently proved mine.  

Look, I gave you a source that I chose specifically so that YOU would respect it.  The Source is the author of "God is not Great".  I couldn't possibly have come up with a source more to YOUR liking.  I gave you that much, give me something back or go away as a troll.  It would be appreciated if you would at least respect THAT enough to actually engage with it rather than brushing it off with assertions that can neither be proven nor falsified and/or outright falsehoods.  

Your statement that "... started 500 years apart." is outright false and I explained why, quoting Hitchens above.  If you aren't able to deal with that, go away.  Hitchens was much smarter than you or I and I already gave you a source that you should have no objections to.  Engage or go away.  

"Any horrific message you can find din the Quran you can easily find in the Bible."  No.  I already gave several but since you implied that the Bible commands Christians to spread their religion by the sword I'll add that.  The Quran does, the Bible doesn't.  Period.  Similarly, the Quran has the 72 virgins thing for adherents who die in a holy war, the Bible has no such passage.  

As I stated above, the Bible teaches it's adherents to treat everyone under the same rules.  The 10 Commandments, for example, are not appended by a notice that they only apply when dealing with other Jews/Christians.  Three of the 10 deal with religion so they are irrelevant to outsiders.  Two more deal with intra-family relationships so they are only relevant to an outsider if that outsider is either the spouse, parent, or child of an adherent.  Two more command adherents not to covet the things that other people have so again this is largely irrelevant to an outsider.  The final three are:
Note here that in the Judeo-Christian tradition these commands are general.  Don't do these things, period.  In Islam similar commands exist but they are understood to mean "Don't kill other Muslims", "Don't steal from other Muslims", and "Don't lie to other Muslims" and NOT as commands for dealing with outsiders.  

This is a major fundamental difference.  

Also, nowhere in the Bible does it command adherents to spread the faith by the sword.  This is NOT true of the Quran.  

That said, many horrible things have been done in the name of religion but that is a completely different question.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2022, 12:51:23 PM
Because it's just incredulous to you, right?  

If so, then you're just putting your head in the sand when it comes to the radical changes in Christianity in the past 500 years.  Sorry friend, but this shit isn't static, it's fluid.  And it flows more socially liberal.  Every day, there are fewer gaps for god to hide in as our knowledge grows.  

I have no idea what they'll call it, but there will be a reformation-esque paradigm shift in what women wear in the Muslim world.  Apostates will be free to go on living normal lives, they'll dine on ham and bacon, and will separate church and state.  

Because all of its doctrines are bullshit - another thing both religions have in common.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 01:28:53 PM
The nature of technology is exponential. 500 years ago (roughly the time of Christopher Columbus sailin' the ocean blue), they might have recognized the general potential of the industrial revolution occurring. Do you think they could conceive of television? The internet?
I had a class in Economic History at Ohio State that was absolutely fascinating.  The nature of technology is exponential except not always.  The Professor started the class with the assertion that for all of Human History up until about 500 years ago our ancestors lived at or near subsistence.  Ie, they barely had enough food to survive so basically their entire lives were a never-ending struggle with famine.  There were a few times in a few places where humans advanced somewhat beyond this but they didn't keep advancing. 

He pointed out that the Egyptians were pretty far above subsistence as evidenced by the fact that they built the Pyramids.  They obviously had enough surplus food to be able to support a substantial labor force building pyramids.  Someone in the class then pointed out that the Egyptians used slave laborers and the Professor replied with two things:

Similarly, the Romans were quite a bit above subsistence for a while as were the Chinese at one time and other cultures as well but none of them managed to achieve that "exponential technology".  Instead, each of the cultures that got themselves above bare subsistence for a while eventually waned and fell back to that bare subsistence level. 

It wasn't until Europe starting about 500 years ago that your "exponential technology" started to take hold. 

Curiously, one of the major triggers of the industrial revolution was the plague.  The Black Death killed around 50% of Europe's population between roughly 1346-1353.  One would think, intuitively, that this would be horrific and of course it was for the individuals who died of it and for their survivors but it was a massive economic boon. 

Think of it this way:
Imagine that @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) and I are brothers and that we have two other brothers, we'll call them Darryl and Darryl.  Now suppose that our parents have left the four of us:
Now suppose that Darryl and Darryl both die of the Black Death.  That is horrible and Beta and I would be very sad burrying our brothers but once we get past that, we will find that Beta and I now own:
In other words, Beta's and my per-capita wealth just increased by 100%. 

Then there is another interesting factor.  The Professor asked:
"If you only need 50% as much food due to the plague killing 50% of your people, what percentage of your farmland do you need to farm?"

Someone replied 50%.  The Professor thundered "NO".  Farmland is not all equal.  Some land is more productive than other land.  Thus if we only need 50% as much food we can probably get away with farming the most productive third of the farmland that we previously needed. 

Taking those together, Beta and I now have more tools (plows, oxen) and we each have a house and now we only need to farm a combined four acres which either of us can handle while only using 2/3 of the acreage that we own leaving the other one free to do something else like go invent stuff. 

Ie, in our post-plague reality I can farm four of my six acres and produce enough food for both Beta and I and Beta (the engineer) can go invent stuff to make me even more efficient.  This is basically how the Black Death contributed to the exponential increases in technology that started emanating from Europe about 500 years ago. 


One other interesting catalyst for the Industrial Revolution:
Britain ran out of wood.  Seriously, the British Isles aren't all that big and as their population increased they eventually starting running low on trees.  They weren't actually out but the price of wood began to increase because trees were no longer seen as infinitely available.  People had known for years that there was a black substance that could be found in the ground in some places that burned hotter than wood (coal) but as long as trees were infinitely available it didn't make economic sense to dig up coal when it was much easier to chop down trees.  The use of coal grew in England specifically because they were low on trees.  The use of coal contributed to two things that were vital to the Industrial Revolution:

Interesting point:
Both the Romans and the Egyptians were REALLY close to the industrial revolution.  The Romans had hot-water heat which required a boiler and at least a basic understanding of the idea that when you heat water it turns to steam and expands.  They used that for heating homes and baths but that was it.  They stopped there.  It really doesn't take much to get from that to "hey, we could use this expanding water stuff (steam) to make power and convert it to rotational motion and build a train to take our legions to the front". 

The Egyptians actually had a palace toy that was basically a pipe with outlets on opposite sides placed over boiling water.  It would spin.  That is literally a rudimentary steam engine.  Put a pully on top of that sucker and . . . Industrial Revolution.  They never did. 

Consider where we would be if the Romans or the Egyptians had launched the Industrial Revolution several millennia or more prior to it's historical launch. 


Two final points because I find these fascinating.  If you go to Rome today you can see the Roman ruins.  Parts of the Colosseum and other Roman structures are visible.  We consider them to be ancient because they are around 2,000 years old.  When the Romans who built those things got to Egypt the Pyramids were older than the Roman ruins are now.  Ie, Imperial Rome is closer in time to us now than it is to the ancient Egyptian civilization. 

The Spanish under Ferdinand and Isabella famously completed kicking the Muslims out of Spain in 1492.  Note that the Umayyad conquest of Hispania began in 711.  Ie, Christoper Columbus is closer in time to us than he is to pre-Muslim Spain. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 01:31:16 PM
Look, I gave you a source that I chose specifically so that YOU would respect it.  The Source is the author of "God is not Great".  I couldn't possibly have come up with a source more to YOUR liking.  I gave you that much, give me something back or go away as a troll.  It would be appreciated if you would at least respect THAT enough to actually engage with it rather than brushing it off with assertions that can neither be proven nor falsified and/or outright falsehoods. 
Because it's just incredulous to you, right? 

If so, then you're just putting your head in the sand when it comes to the radical changes in Christianity in the past 500 years.  Sorry friend, but this shit isn't static, it's fluid.  And it flows more socially liberal.  Every day, there are fewer gaps for god to hide in as our knowledge grows. 

I have no idea what they'll call it, but there will be a reformation-esque paradigm shift in what women wear in the Muslim world.  Apostates will be free to go on living normal lives, they'll dine on ham and bacon, and will separate church and state. 

Because all of its doctrines are bullshit - another thing both religions have in common.
Go away troll.  








Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 01:55:54 PM
I wonder if we have S curved technological progress.  Sure, TVs etc. get a bit better these days, and phones get better, etc.  The auto industry is in a sea change.  But a person from 1970 would adapt pretty quickly to today.  A person from 1920 would likely be astonished if put into 1970.

My Dad was born in 1917 in a house with no electricity.  With electricity, you have a major shift in quality of life, aside from light you can have a well with a pump and heat and hot water and entertainment in principle.  Maybe in 50 years we'll harness fusion, I tend to doubt it.  Space?  Still a problem with gravity.  Cooler electronics?  OK.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 01:57:52 PM
I think the point that kicked this whole thing off was that if the Christians hadn't won the Battle of Tours, we might all be Muslim. 

OAM assumed that this was a "thank God that didn't happen!" point and that it was an attack on Islam. I think he's half right, but missed the bigger point. 

-------------

The half that he's right is that from hindsight bias as people of a Western nation where the Judeo-Christian tradition drove much of the history of our society, we take our current history for granted. We're all selfish and self-centered people, who have been raised a certain way and believe it's the right way. We tell ourselves that we never would have had liberal democracy without those Judeo-Christian values. That may even be true. 

Of course, today's Muslims are selfish and self-centered, and have been raised a certain way and believe it's the right way. And that we're the wrong ones.

Funny how that works, eh?

The simple truth is that if the Christians had lost the Battle of Tours, and we were all Muslims today, we'd all be grateful that the "right" side had won and would be incredibly happy that our Muslim heritage had survived and flourished. Because we'd all have been raised that way. 

-------------

Where I think OAM's criticism was wrong was that I didn't read any "attack" on Islam into the original post. But if the Muslims had won the Battle of Tours, it likely would have drastically altered the entire course of human civilization. Maybe it would have been for the better. Maybe it would have been for the worse. 

But it's clear that the way the world developed over the last ~1300 years would be very different than it was. And society as it exists today would likely be very different than it is. 

How, precisely, would it differ? I can't really say based on the state of Islam and the West in 2021. Because just as the West would have developed very differently [and perhaps not even be something we call "Western Civilization"], Islam would have developed very differently IMHO had they conquered Europe. 

What we know based on previous conquerings is that often a conquering of a different land creates an inescapable blending of the cultures. Much of "Western" civilization is based on the mixing of cultures that occurred as various parts of Europe conquered each other over the centuries. The English language is a messed up amalgamation of diverse roots, some in Latin, some Germanic, and a fair bit that we've picked up elsewhere along the way. European culture in general is a giant mix. Add the Islam of the 700s into that mix and I can't predict what it would look like now. 

But the thing that I can predict is that it would be very different than what it is today. Most of us--the selfish and self-centered people that we are--like what we have today, so by default we have to view that suspiciously. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 02:16:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sDVLOoT.png)
This is Napoleon's tomb in Paris in Les Invalides.  It's impressive to see in person.  The French have really built Napoleon up into a hero, usually, just as the Brits tried to tear him down as a short monomaniacal demon.  He was an impressive individual, building canals and of course the Napoleonic Code, aside from many military victories.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 02:57:32 PM
I wonder if we have S curved technological progress.  Sure, TVs etc. get a bit better these days, and phones get better, etc.  The auto industry is in a sea change.  But a person from 1970 would adapt pretty quickly to today.  A person from 1920 would likely be astonished if put into 1970.

My Dad was born in 1917 in a house with no electricity.  With electricity, you have a major shift in quality of life, aside from light you can have a well with a pump and heat and hot water and entertainment in principle.  Maybe in 50 years we'll harness fusion, I tend to doubt it.  Space?  Still a problem with gravity.  Cooler electronics?  OK.
I kinda disagree with your inflection points though... 

1920->1970 I get, because the television remade everything. It literally reorganized the way people interact with the world. I think, much more than radio, led to the "nationalization" of the USA. All of a sudden the people in NYC, Wichita, and Los Angeles were watching the same TV news anchors and sitcoms as each other. Sure, we put a man on the moon. But that's a parlor trick, culturally, compared to TV. The other aspect was travel--travel in 1920 was likely to be minimal due to cost and due to lack of need. But cars advanced TREMENDOUSLY over those 50 years, became more accessible to more people, and air travel went from nonexistent to a luxury good. 

However, 1970->Today would be incomprehensible. I'd say everything from the 1950s to about 2000 are something that you could wrap your head around. Yes, we started getting cellphones in the 1980s and they spread in the 1990s. Yes, the late 90's were the "dotcom" era, so we technically had the internet. We had Mapquest and Napster. We had search engines that worked, but there was damn near nothing to find. But nobody was walking around staring at their phones all day. Outside of buying dog toys on Pets.com, nobody spent their entire day on the internet. Almost nobody outside of the university or tech space had or used email. We didn't have an entire population carrying around HD video cameras in their pocket everywhere they go. We didn't have social media. 

I feel like someone from 1950 could be dropped into 1999 and would look around and say "oh, you've improved all the things I am familiar with". I think if you dropped someone from 1995 in 2021, they'd be completely lost and not recognize the world around them. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 03:01:47 PM
BTW I would highly recommend reading both Sapiens (https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari-ebook/dp/B00ICN066A/) and Homo Deus (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BBQ33VE). 

They really helps to highlight how we got where we are--and where we might be going...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2022, 03:22:50 PM
Guns, Germs, and Steel might help a few people become a little less in love with their own way of thinking (my way as the right way, as you so eloquently stated).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 03:32:02 PM
I kinda disagree with your inflection points though...

1920->1970 I get, because the television remade everything. It literally reorganized the way people interact with the world. I think, much more than radio, led to the "nationalization" of the USA. All of a sudden the people in NYC, Wichita, and Los Angeles were watching the same TV news anchors and sitcoms as each other. Sure, we put a man on the moon. But that's a parlor trick, culturally, compared to TV. The other aspect was travel--travel in 1920 was likely to be minimal due to cost and due to lack of need. But cars advanced TREMENDOUSLY over those 50 years, became more accessible to more people, and air travel went from nonexistent to a luxury good.

However, 1970->Today would be incomprehensible. I'd say everything from the 1950s to about 2000 are something that you could wrap your head around. Yes, we started getting cellphones in the 1980s and they spread in the 1990s. Yes, the late 90's were the "dotcom" era, so we technically had the internet. We had Mapquest and Napster. We had search engines that worked, but there was damn near nothing to find. But nobody was walking around staring at their phones all day. Outside of buying dog toys on Pets.com, nobody spent their entire day on the internet. Almost nobody outside of the university or tech space had or used email. We didn't have an entire population carrying around HD video cameras in their pocket everywhere they go. We didn't have social media.

I feel like someone from 1950 could be dropped into 1999 and would look around and say "oh, you've improved all the things I am familiar with". I think if you dropped someone from 1995 in 2021, they'd be completely lost and not recognize the world around them.
I've made that point vis-a-vis the internet with my HS graduation.  I graduated in 1993 and Netscape came out that year.  There technically was an internet when I was in high school and I even saw it once at a friends' house but it was for mega-geeks not the masses.  Netscape was the first graphical user interface that brought the internet to the masses.  As such I've observed before that I think my HS experience was more similar to someone two decades earlier than it was to someone half a decade later.  

Seriously, think about it.  Even though there were cell phones and there was an internet in 1993 they were barely more in use than they had been in 1973 so basically my HS experience (graduating in 1993) was pretty similar to someone who graduated in 1973 with the exception of the draft being a major concern for guys who graduated in 1973 but the war was winding down by then so it wasn't nearly as much of a concern and anyway that isn't so much what I am referring to.  I mean socially.  In my early 1990's experience if you wanted to contact one of your friends you called their home phone and asked whoever answered to put them on.  Same as 1973.  In my early 1990's experience if you wanted to ask a girl out you got her number from a friend or from the phone book and called her house and asked whoever answered to put her on.  Same as 1973.  

If you graduated five years later your HS experience included email, MUCH greater use of cell phones, chat rooms, etc.  I remember my sophomore year at tOSU some other sophomores and I were hanging out with some Freshmen and they were in a thing called a "chat room" and we were like WTF is this, lets go do something.  That is only a one year difference and it was completely foreign to us.  

Similar comparison, I started at Ohio State in the fall of 1993.  On my floor of ~60 guys there were a grand combined total of two computers (plus another three word processors, remember those?).  My brother started in the fall of 1999 and had three roommates.  The four of them owned six computers (all four had PC's, two also had laptops).  That is a sea change of 1 PC per ~30 guys to 1.5 computers PER guy.  

I still remember getting the PAPER to look at the new top-25 on Monday after a College Football weekend.  I also still remember that one of the papers I read back then had a feature I liked where they listed the entire top-25 and who they were playing.  I used to make notes in that so I'd know what was going on.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 03:32:20 PM
Guns, Germs, and Steel might help a few people become a little less in love with their own way of thinking (my way as the right way, as you so eloquently stated).
Hello pot, this is the kettle.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2022, 03:58:16 PM
Hello pot, this is the kettle. 
I'm merely not convinced there's a god.  And like 6 billion people are guilty of believing in one with zero substantive evidence.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 04:09:24 PM
I was quite disappointed with the book "G,G&S".  I read the nice reviews and picked it up used, and found it rather boring, to me.  I think there were some points in it, but on the whole it seemed "obvious"?  And it missed some significant items in my opinion.  

Emergency-Room Engineering: The 1962 Chevy II | Mac's Motor City Garage (macsmotorcitygarage.com) (https://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/emergency-room-engineering-the-1962-chevy-ii/?f&fbclid=IwAR3eS2EGcvMMu043yD4GmXHDEM3DU4-5pm7USa3dKAXcCiEmlVPRjKcjP_Q)

Sort of interesting to me as I had a '68 and a '73.  The latter was a decent enough car for its time, the former had the dreaded two speed powerglide transmission and an aftermarket AC.

I was thinking about this today driving my car to Costco and thinking how much better it is in every respect, but that's progress.  As for which 50 year period has been most "shocking", I don't know, of course, I'd probably select 1900 to 1950.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 04:14:04 PM
I'm merely not convinced there's a god.  And like 6 billion people are guilty of believing in one with zero substantive evidence. 
Talk about missing the point:
Guns, Germs, and Steel might help a few people become a little less in love with their own way of thinking (my way as the right way, as you so eloquently stated).
Since the existence of a higher power is neither provable nor falsifiable it shouldn't surprise you that people on the other side of that divide view you the same way that you view them.  

The point, and the difference within this thread (and in general with your postings here) is that YOU are the one who continually frames your points as insults and, see upthread, even when someone (me) goes out of their way to meet you on YOUR terms by using an explicitly anti-religious source, you still answer with insults and evasions.  

See, from this post:
Because it's just incredulous to you, right? 

If so, then you're just putting your head in the sand when it comes to the radical changes in Christianity in the past 500 years.  Sorry friend, but this shit isn't static, it's fluid.  And it flows more socially liberal.  Every day, there are fewer gaps for god to hide in as our knowledge grows. 

I have no idea what they'll call it, but there will be a reformation-esque paradigm shift in what women wear in the Muslim world.  Apostates will be free to go on living normal lives, they'll dine on ham and bacon, and will separate church and state. 

Because all of its doctrines are bullshit - another thing both religions have in common.
Insults to anyone who disagrees with you.  This was directed at me and accused me of:

I was going to go back further but I've already more than proved my point with just one of your posts and yet you have the unmitigated audacity to implicitly accuse all who disagree with you of being "in love with their own way of thinking" which is EXACTLY what you are.  

Honestly Fro, I'm not the average poster who disagrees with you.  I don't toss out insults lightly.  I take your points and address them on their own merits.  An example is my choosing to use an explicitly anti-religious atheist as my source to counter your Christianity = Islam argument.  It would be different if I had tossed out some pro-Christian source as a response but I didn't, don't treat me like I did.  I took on your point on YOUR terms and you tossed out insults.  

I've made this point before but I'm going to make it again because it fits so well here.  Every time you and I are on the same side in a debate here I wish you would stop posting because your posts are so off-putting that they tend to push people away from our view.  Every time you and I are on the opposite side in a debate here I welcome your posts for the same reason.  

I sometimes wonder if you are actually the atheist leftist that you appear or if you are a truly ingenious Christian right winger who is operating as a parody of an atheist leftist.  Your posts are so off-putting that they are infinitely more effective if it is actually the latter.  




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 04:21:59 PM
I do loathe Eastern Michigan.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 04:45:18 PM
I was thinking about this today driving my car to Costco and thinking how much better it is in every respect, but that's progress.  As for which 50 year period has been most "shocking", I don't know, of course, I'd probably select 1900 to 1950. 
Getting back to weird history, this is one reason that WWI fascinates me much more than WWII.  

There was, of course, incredible technological innovation during WWII but I think the incredible technological innovation during WWI was more impressive.  

When WWI started aircraft were too few to have any significant impact and the few that did exist were basically bedsheets draped over sticks, they looked a lot like the Wright Flier.  At the end of WWI aircraft were a major part of warfare and the most modern planes looked a lot like modern planes today, 100+ years later.  

At the beginning of WWI tactics and strategies of warfare were not much different from what they had been when Napoleon roamed European battlefields 100 years earlier, at the end tactics and strategies were not much different than they are today, 100 years later.  

A soldier from Napoleon's era would have understood pretty much everything he saw on the battlefield in 1914.  The major exception is aircraft but as I stated they were so few in number as to not be terribly relevant.  Meanwhile, a soldier from 1918 would be familiar with most everything on a modern battlefield.  The tanks, aircraft, and other weapons of today are obviously better but there isn't much that is altogether new.  

The other reasons that WWI fascinates me are the changes relative to what had existed before and the fact that there are easily plausible scenarios in which the other side wins.

Changes:
WWII saw the end of the Nazi's in Germany and the Fascists in Italy but they had only been in power for about 12 and about 20 years respectively.  That is nothing compared to WWI seeing the end of the Hapsburgs in Austria-Hungary, the Romanovs in Russia, and the Hohenzollerns in Germany.  While the Kaisers had only ruled Germany at large four about 50 years at least part of the possessions of those three families had been under their rule for centuries.  

Plausible for the other side to win:
When WWI began there were three factions in America.  There were a significant number of people, mostly first and second generation immigrants from the Central Powers and Irish who wanted the US to join the Central Powers.  There were people who wanted the US to join the Allies, and the majority wanted the US to stay neutral.  If Germany had been better at diplomacy (which is an extremely low bar) it is easy to imagine the US remaining neutral and not impossible to imagine the US joining the Central Powers.  Unlike the WWII, Russia did collapse in WWI and the Germans were supremely close to knocking out the French in 1914 and again in their Spring Offensive in 1918.  There are a multitude of plausible scenarios in which the Central Powers achieve at least a partial victory.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:00:39 PM
I've pondered before how history might have been better had the Germans won WW One.  They would have taken another slice of France probably and had dominance over central Europe no doubt.  The Kaiser would have stayed in power.  No Hitler.  The US could have stayed out of both.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 05:05:36 PM
I've pondered before how history might have been better had the Germans won WW One.  They would have taken another slice of France probably and had dominance over central Europe no doubt.  The Kaiser would have stayed in power.  No Hitler.  The US could have stayed out of both.
On the flip side it is possible that there would have been a Hitler equivalent in France blaming the French Jews (or somesuch) for France's loss in WWI and invading the rest of Europe seeking revenge for all that was lost in WWI and the Franco-Prussian War.  Who knows.  

It would certainly have been a lot different and it was VERY close to happening.  If the Russian invasion of East Prussia hadn't caused the Germans to panic and pull an entire army out of the invasion of France the Germans would most likely have been victorious in France in 1914.  They did that in 1940, of course, but after that happened in 1940 the Soviet Union didn't collapse.  Russia DID collapse after 1914 so that would have been a much different situation for the Kaiser than it was for Hitler.  Would the British have agreed to terms?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:09:18 PM
That is an interesting thought, a French "Hitler" or equivalent.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 05:17:30 PM
I've pondered before how history might have been better had the Germans won WW One.  They would have taken another slice of France probably and had dominance over central Europe no doubt.  The Kaiser would have stayed in power.  No Hitler.  The US could have stayed out of both.
Then the US would not have ramped up factory production in the 40s, might not have exited the Depression, would not have felt it necessary to develop the A-bomb, therefore would not have become a nuclear superpower and would have lost considerable influence in the world over the ensuing decades.  Would not really have engaged in the Cold War with Russia so likely would not have funneled money into the Space Race and so trillions of dollars worth of innovation would likely never have occurred.

Basically, become a vassal state to China at this point in history.

Far reaching consequences indeed. :)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2022, 05:55:51 PM
I like the idea of the U.S. being a nondescript country.  Not the world's police, not a threat to anyone, just a country chugging along.  Everything would seem a little less important/stressful.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 31, 2022, 06:02:33 PM
I work with a couple of people so backwards that not only had they never heard of Groundhog Day, they weren't even aware that such an animal exists. Then when I tried to explain the whole thing, their only question had the do with whether or not you can eat them.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 06:40:06 PM
Sure you can.

Tastes like chicken.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 06:41:49 PM
I once interviewed a PhD chemist for an opening who had never heard of black holes.  While it was not part of the job need, I didn't hire him.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 06:52:11 PM
I like the idea of the U.S. being a nondescript country.  Not the world's police, not a threat to anyone, just a country chugging along.  Everything would seem a little less important/stressful.
one can only wish. this would be nice.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on January 31, 2022, 06:56:36 PM
I like the idea of the U.S. being a nondescript country.  Not the world's police, not a threat to anyone, just a country chugging along.  Everything would seem a little less important/stressful.
yep and while we are at it lets stop giving under developed countries billions 

we should keep it for ourselves
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 07:12:05 PM
yep and while we are at it lets stop giving under developed countries billions

we should keep it for ourselves
There's a degree to which I agree with this...

...but at the same time China is aggressively investing in Africa and a lot of other places in the world, and they're doing so with the clear knowledge that this will allow them to exert influence on those nations. Influence that may end up freezing us out of or giving them preferential access to natural resources that we need. 

So let's not act as if there's no benefit to helping underdeveloped nations, nor no cost to not doing so if others choose to...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 07:26:32 PM
There's a degree to which I agree with this...

...but at the same time China is aggressively investing in Africa and a lot of other places in the world, and they're doing so with the clear knowledge that this will allow them to exert influence on those nations. Influence that may end up freezing us out of or giving them preferential access to natural resources that we need.

So let's not act as if there's no benefit to helping underdeveloped nations, nor no cost to not doing so if others choose to...
I'm all for helping underdeveloped nations. I disagree with longhorn there. I'd agree with him if he said we should stop giving billions of dollars in aid to VERY rich countries like for example...Israel! 

And I'd also argue that we should basically disband NATO and let rich European countries pay for their own defense. If they aren't that worried about their defense, why should we? 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 02:30:00 AM
I'm not sure lh320 is actually advocating that position.  Rather, I think he's just pointing out that if the USA were just an average ordinary nation "just chugging along," then there'd be less capability to deliver aid to foreign countries and we'd be best off just keeping whatever limited resources we'd have in that scenario, to ourselves. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 05:46:35 AM
I do loathe Eastern Michigan.
Ya whoor
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 05:59:02 AM
Sure you can.

Tastes like chicken.
According to some hunting buddies it tasted like wool sox from the Ice Shanty with the consistency of boot leather that had rancid fat rendered over it.I didn't ask how they knew what those other things tasted like
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 06:37:18 AM
50 Year Ago America’s Engines Lost Up to 130 HP Overnight. Here’s How It Happened | Carscoops (https://www.carscoops.com/2022/01/50-year-ago-americas-engines-lost-up-to-130-hp-overnight-heres-how-it-happened/#Echobox=1643606001)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 06:43:35 AM
I've pondered before how history might have been better had the Germans won WW One.  They would have taken another slice of France probably and had dominance over central Europe no doubt.  The Kaiser would have stayed in power.  No Hitler.  The US could have stayed out of both.
People always seem to leave the British Crown off of the hook,prolly because we speak English and German sounds grating .What was it the one Holy Roman Emporer said "I speak Latin to God,Italian to men,French to women and German to my horse." According to the history I've been told is the Royal Navy in WWI had blockaded the Northern German ports and cut the trans atlantic telegraph line to the USA.Hampering communication efforts between the two countries as the US was fed the British version of everything.Between being starved for food and supplies and the reparations from the treaty of Versailles had horrendous consequences for the Central powers and Germany in particular.It greased the skids for the economic collapse that followed leading to civil unrest.The countries children born after 1919 were famished and indeed the coming years grew up much smaller than previous generations.These are the kids that grew up to be soldiers in WWII

 I don't know much about WWI or what led to it outside of the ArchDuke Ferdinand getting whacked in the Balkans.But it was explained to me by a history teacher years ago that WWII sprung fom WWI which sprang from centuries of European Kingdoms colliding, reforming and colliding again and so on and so forth.So not sure one side was all right or all wrong but one was definitely left to foot the butchers bill .So when the chattering ebola chimp Adolph weaseled past the Proletariat telling the digruntled things they wanted to hear as the economy started picking up they were all ears.They couldn't know at the time little by little he was leading them to Dante's Inferno
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 06:48:21 AM
I once interviewed a PhD chemist for an opening who had never heard of black holes.  While it was not part of the job need, I didn't hire him.
Could have put them in accounting
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 06:50:14 AM
The Guns of August is a very readable book about the origins of WW One.  Part of the issue, a large part, were the security agreements between various nations that collided.  Britain for example had guaranteed Belgium, and the German Schlieffen plan involved a wheel attack through Belgium into the French proper.  Russia had guaranteed Serbia, Austria wanted to punish Serbia.  Germany was on the side of Austria.  France was on the side of Russia.  Dominoes.  

A weird thing is that the King of England, the Kaiser, and the Tsar, had the same grandmother, they were first cousins.  

The Terms Kaiser and Tsar come from Caesar, which in latin is pronounced with a hard C, Kaiser.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 06:51:38 AM
Could have put them in accounting
I wasn't hiring accountants.  Ha,  the guy was from Ohio State as I recall.

The top grads went to drug companies or academia in general, they didn't interview, they had a pipeline.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 07:14:41 AM
A weird thing is that the King of England, the Kaiser, and the Tsar, had the same grandmother, they were first cousins.
😎 never knew that Hatfields/McCoys.Speaking of McCoy got a book on DB Cooper and I'm convinced this was the guy.
DB Cooper,The Real McCoy only a few pages in but picked it up after watching quite a few YT videos
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 07:16:39 AM
The top grads went to drug companies 
Of course their parents were prolly hippies
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 07:45:53 AM
I went up to Ohio State for nine years to interview for the company and write reports.  It was "interesting".  They had a famous professor named Leo Paquette who had a group of 39 people at one point, that is way too many, and he had to use post docs to superview the grad students.  Predictably, they got into some sort of a mess.

I quit once the company started with quotas.  The students were 95% white males and Asian males and we were told we had to hire more diversity folks.  There were two black PhDs NATIONALLY that year and the goal was to hire both, sight unseen.  I think they did hire one.  I went back under my rock.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 08:20:05 AM
Could have put them in accounting
Sounds like he'd make an excellent Supreme Court Justice.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 08:26:41 AM
According to some hunting buddies it tasted like wool sox from the Ice Shanty with the consistency of boot leather that had rancid fat rendered over it.I didn't ask how they knew what those other things tasted like
I'll admit I've never tasted groundhog, I was just goofing around.  I've also never tasted wool socks or boot leather or rancid fat (that I know of).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 08:41:44 AM
I have tasted rattlesnake, it was kind of greasy, but it was canned.  I had escargot the other night and was musing about how it's all about the butter.  I was dipping bread pieces into said butter, just give me the butter and some good bread and I'm happy.  They have a salmon with artichokes in a kind of red sauce that I can't pass up.

DOS DE SAUMON AUX ARTICHAUTS
$29.00
Roasted salmon fillet, artichokes, welted arugula, marinated tomatoes, Niçoise olives, fingerling potatoes, red bell pepper sauce


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 09:01:07 AM
I'll admit I've never tasted groundhog, I was just goofing around.  I've also never tasted wool socks or boot leather or rancid fat (that I know of).
Such a sheltered life
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 09:11:42 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XV0dTom.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 10:06:25 AM
I'm not sure lh320 is actually advocating that position.  Rather, I think he's just pointing out that if the USA were just an average ordinary nation "just chugging along," then there'd be less capability to deliver aid to foreign countries and we'd be best off just keeping whatever limited resources we'd have in that scenario, to ourselves.
Yeah, and there'd also be a lot less wars, killings, & bombings, meddling in foreign countries affairs, toppling of foreign governments, propping up dictators, and in general less horrific shit.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2022, 10:56:41 AM
Then the US would not have ramped up factory production in the 40s, might not have exited the Depression, would not have felt it necessary to develop the A-bomb, therefore would not have become a nuclear superpower and would have lost considerable influence in the world over the ensuing decades.  Would not really have engaged in the Cold War with Russia so likely would not have funneled money into the Space Race and so trillions of dollars worth of innovation would likely never have occurred.

Basically, become a vassal state to China at this point in history.

Far reaching consequences indeed. :)
A lot like China as their economy expands, military power is fundamentally a function of economic power and the US was already the world's largest economy even before WWI.  Just by quick google, it appears that the US became the world's largest economy in 1886.  Now I realize that economists aren't as precise as they think so I wouldn't argue one way or the other if you said it was 1891 or 1881 but I'm near certain that it happened sometime between say 1876 and 1896 so by the time WWI broke out the US had already been in that position for 20-40 years.  Even without the years of trench warfare (assuming a quick German victory over France in 1914) the war still took some toll on the economies of the warring powers.  

Per wiki, GDP in 1990 International Dollars (I have no idea what that means but the denominator isn't really important, I'm more concerned with the relative size):

Eastern Europe is listed as a conglomerate with $135 B so it is probably fair to guess that the Austro-Hungarian Empire was 8th, somewhere between France and Italy.  

China, India, and to a lesser extent Russia weren't nearly as wealthy as this makes them appear.  They were very populous so even with a very low per-capita GDP they still had an impressive looking total GDP but that didn't mean that they could actually afford to build and maintain substantial modern militaries to match Germany and the UK.  

Germany lost so much territory after WWII that there were actually MORE Germans living in post-war Germany in 1945 than there had been living in that same geographic area in 1939.  Germany lost a LOT of territory by losing two world wars in the twentieth Century which tends to happen when you invade people and lose.  

A related and interesting question is what would have happened to Austria-Hungary.  Here is a linguistic map of Austrio-Hungarian territory circa 1910 (https://brilliantmaps.com/united-states-austria/).  There are areas with majority:

Austria-Hungary being on the winning side in WWI and the Hapsburg monarchy continuing beyond 1918 would not have stopped a substantial number of these people from wanting to join or form ethnic nation states with their co-ethnics in Germany, Serbia, Italy, the Ukraine, Poland, etc.  That pressure would have continued to exist and would undoubtedly have eventually led to more conflicts.  

The Germans wouldn't have had foreign ethnic majorities in the Sudetenland and parts of Poland to push them towards war but the Poles would have had that in Germany and a slew of ethnicities would have had that in Austria-Hungary.  It is impossible to predict when or how that would have blown up but I can predict with absolute certainty that it would have blown up.  


Germany, with everything they would likely have gained from victory in WWI would have consolidated their position as the dominant power in Europe and probably had a sufficiently large economy and industrial base to out-produce the UK such that they would have attained at least parity with the Royal Navy sometime in the 1920's or so.  That would have left the UK in quite a precarious position because they are absolutely dependent on imports to survive (they weren't food sufficient even then) and if Germany had a surface Navy large enough to threaten that, the UK would have been practically unable to stand up to anything the Germans wanted.  They'd have been forced to rely on alliances but the French economy isn't all that big, the Russian/Soviet economy isn't all that wealthy, and in this scenario it is safe to assume that the US is pretty strongly isolationist.  

For their part, the Germans would have bordered an explicitly hostile Communist regime to their East so they'd have, at a minimum, felt it necessary to maintain a military strong enough to take on the USSR.  

Still, the US would have had an economy roughly twice the size of the next tier (China, Germany, USSR, UK).  That gives the US an enormous amount of leverage whenever they decide they want to use it.  

If you study British History they had a longstanding internal debate as to whether their foreign policy should be:

In short, Europe after a Central Powers victory in WWI would have had all kinds of potential flash-points to start up the next war.  Also, if WWI hadn't been so awful (a quick German victory in France in 1914 would have resulted in vastly less casualties for both sides) then they wouldn't have been so war-averse in the decades after so the next war would probably have come sooner rather than in 1939.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 10:58:56 AM
Yeah, and there'd also be a lot less wars, killings, & bombings, meddling in foreign countries affairs, toppling of foreign governments, propping up dictators, and in general less horrific shit.
I don't believe that for a second.  It would just be different countries doing it.

As you are fond of saying, power corrupts.  USA with less power, results in someone else with more power, and therefore more corruption coming from that "someone else."

People are as predictable as the sun setting in the West, the tides, or OAM turning an innocuous discussion into something hateful and anti-religious.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 11:04:00 AM
HATER,not that there's anything wrong with that
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 11:05:08 AM
Before WW 2, the US was largely isolationist.  The notion after WW 2 was that we couldn't be any longer, we needed to step in and "help" the rest of the world remain peaceful etc.  Some of that was good, the Marshall Plan.  Then there was the Commie fear, they were taking over the world, so the US reacted to that, obviously.  That led to a number of bad things.  Then the USSR fell and it seemed world peace was upon us, and then it wasn't.

I don't think we will ever step back, though in many ways it makes sense to me as well.  A lot of our military spending is to be able to project power, a lot of power, in a way no other country can match at all.  That means aircraft carriers and a large Navy, plus transports, and a large air force, etc.  The air wing of a carrier costs more than said carrier.  My idea would be to step back and take a long look at where our security needs actually are and then match the military to them, it might well be cyberwar is where we're deficient.  But this isn't going to happen of course.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2022, 11:10:48 AM
People always seem to leave the British Crown off of the hook,prolly because we speak English and German sounds grating .What was it the one Holy Roman Emporer said "I speak Latin to God,Italian to men,French to women and German to my horse." According to the history I've been told is the Royal Navy in WWI had blockaded the Northern German ports and cut the trans atlantic telegraph line to the USA.Hampering communication efforts between the two countries as the US was fed the British version of everything.Between being starved for food and supplies and the reparations from the treaty of Versailles had horrendous consequences for the Central powers and Germany in particular.It greased the skids for the economic collapse that followed leading to civil unrest.The countries children born after 1919 were famished and indeed the coming years grew up much smaller than previous generations.These are the kids that grew up to be soldiers in WWII
This is an interesting take and mostly correct.  Literally the first British act of war in WWI was to cut the transatlantic telegraph cable that didn't run through Britain thus forcing all messages from Europe to run through them.  That allowed them to intercept and decode all German diplomatic cables which ultimately led to their intercepting and publicizing the Zimmerman Telegram.  

According to the rules of war then in effect the British blockade in the manner that it was conducted was theoretically "illegal".  The Germans made the argument that their use of submarines without warning (also "illegal") was a response to the "illegal" blockade.  If the Germans were better at diplomacy they might have been able to present this point in a way that would have been more convincing in the United States and kept the US out of the war.  That absolutely would have led to the German side winning WWI.  

The thing is that there was a lot of support for this position in the US.  There were a LOT of first and second generation Germans, Austrians, etc who still felt sympathy toward their cousins.  Additionally, there were a LOT of first and second generation Irish with NO love for the British.  Outside of Otto von Bismarck, diplomacy just isn't a German strength.  Further, there were a lot of Americans who just wanted to make as much money as possible by selling everything we could make to both sides.  In the event, it turned out that the British and their allies basically bought everything we could make so we didn't really need the Germans and their allies as customers and the British are REALLY good at diplomacy so they painted the submarine as a "illegal" terror weapon murdering noncombatants while downplaying their blockade as strictly military in nature.  

Another thing about the navies in both wars is how completely ridiculously wasteful German production of major Capital Ships was.  The Germans had the world's second largest navy at the outset of WWI but it was so substantially smaller than the British that they had no real chance and only ventured out of port to try to take on elements of the British fleet a couple times.  One of these was Jutland of course which was a tactical German victory (their ships were very good and they sunk a lot more than they lost) but a strategic British victory (because they had more to lose).  Similarly the German Capital ships in WWII were also very good (Bismark sunk Hood) but so insanely outnumbered as to be basically useless (the British sent something like a dozen BB's and a bunch of CV's and other ships out to get Bismark and sunk it).  If the Germans had used the massive amount of resources that it took to build those capital ships to build submarines instead they probably would have had enough submarines to starve the British into submission.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2022, 11:12:05 AM
The Guns of August is a very readable book about the origins of WW One.  Part of the issue, a large part, were the security agreements between various nations that collided.  Britain for example had guaranteed Belgium, and the German Schlieffen plan involved a wheel attack through Belgium into the French proper.  Russia had guaranteed Serbia, Austria wanted to punish Serbia.  Germany was on the side of Austria.  France was on the side of Russia.  Dominoes. 

A weird thing is that the King of England, the Kaiser, and the Tsar, had the same grandmother, they were first cousins. 

The Terms Kaiser and Tsar come from Caesar, which in latin is pronounced with a hard C, Kaiser.
One of my all-time favorite books.  As @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) stated, it is very readable.  Also, it doesn't concern itself much with the military part of things.  Rather, the book is mostly about all the diplomatic efforts to avoid the war.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2022, 11:12:43 AM
😎 never knew that Hatfields/McCoys.Speaking of McCoy got a book on DB Cooper and I'm convinced this was the guy.
DB Cooper,The Real McCoy only a few pages in but picked it up after watching quite a few YT videos
That is a fascinating story isn't it.  Nobody knows if he survived the jump or not but if he did that is outright amazing.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 11:19:45 AM
The German navy in WW 2 was in part finger in the eye and in part a PR campaign.  Hitler liked BIG stuff, and he liked the prestige of BIG ships.  They did build "surface raiders", basically battlecruisers intended to intercept British shipping, and they were somewhat effective early.  But, yes, the U boats were far more tactically effective and efficient.  Their one aircraft carrier was a silly expense (never finished).

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 11:23:31 AM
That is a fascinating story isn't it.  Nobody knows if he survived the jump or not but if he did that is outright amazing. 
One retired Agent thinks he did.He was on Expedition Unknown about 2 yrs back and he thinks DB jumped in the desert outside of Reno.There were letters sent to the Newspapers at the time - he got out of Dodge 1st.There is a lot of brush and the desert would have provided a much softer landing with lights seen for miles to make a safe get away.Made a very plausible case.Another guy was an airline emplyee named kenny Christiansen
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2022, 11:28:46 AM
I don't know much about WWI or what led to it outside of the ArchDuke Ferdinand getting whacked in the Balkans.But it was explained to me by a history teacher years ago that WWII sprung fom WWI which sprang from centuries of European Kingdoms colliding, reforming and colliding again and so on and so forth.So not sure one side was all right or all wrong but one was definitely left to foot the butchers bill .So when the chattering ebola chimp Adolph weaseled past the Proletariat telling the digruntled things they wanted to hear as the economy started picking up they were all ears.They couldn't know at the time little by little he was leading them to Dante's Inferno
WWII most definitely sprung from WWI.  The highly punitive Treat of Versailles provided Hitler with an enemy that nearly all Germans hated.  Hitler didn't make up the Sudetenland, for example.  Rather, it was an ethnically German-majority area of the old Austro-Hungarian Empire that had been given to the Czechs at the end of WWI.  The German majority that lived there wanted to be aligned with their co-ethnics in either Austria or Germany.  This isn't to say that Hitler was right, just that the victorious allies in WWI gave him a LOT of ammunition.  

Similarly, at the end of WWI when the Hapsburg Empire collapsed all of the nationalities that made it up mostly got their own nation-states or got attached to pre-existing neighboring nation-states.  Interestingly, the Germans in Austria proper, the Sudetenland, and a few other majority-German areas initially created "The Republic of German Austria" with the express intention of merging with their co-ethnics in Germany.  The victorious allies vetoed the merger, chopped the Sudetenland out of their territory, and made them drop the "German" from the name.  Less than 20 years later Hitler's Anschluss accomplished the merger and his Munich Agreement with the British and French got the Sudetenland.  

I've read about strongly anti-Nazi Germans for whom this caused a lot of problems.  They hated the Nazi's but nearly all of them wanted the merger with Austria, to get the Sudetenland, to remilitarize the Ruhr, etc.  Those things made Hitler and the Nazi's very popular in Germany which helped to limit the possibility of any kind of coup to take them out.  

Yes, he was leading them into Dante's Inferno but it certainly didn't seem like it in 1938 and early 1939 when the rest of the world was in an Economic Depression and Germany had a fast-growing economy and massive territorial gains reversing many of the losses of WWI.  Very few people could look deeper and see that their economy was a house of cards built on massive unsustainable military spending and that their enemies were starting to catch up militarily and prepare for a fight in which Germany would be hopelessly outnumbered.  

All the way until the end of 1942 the Nazi regime's decade in power seemed to have been great for Germany and even in 1943 only people who had a really good understanding of world events could see the coming catastrophe.  By 1944 it was far to late to do anything about it.  Even if the July 20 plot had succeeded the Allies had already hardened their stance and it is doubtful whether anything less than Unconditional Surrender would have been acceptable.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 11:31:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SoxEkzu.png)

The War with Germany, A Statistical Summary, Chapters 8-10, Appendix, Index. (gwpda.org) (http://www.gwpda.org/docs/statistics/stats8on.htm)

A very sobering sight in every French town or village is a marker with the names of the dead on it.  They lost massively in this war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2022, 11:38:27 AM
One retired Agent thinks he did.He was on Expedition Unknown about 2 yrs back and he thinks DB jumped in the desert outside of Reno.There were letters sent to the Newspapers at the time - he got out of Dodge 1st.There is a lot of brush and the desert would have provided a much softer landing with lights seen for miles to make a safe get away.Made a very plausible case.Another guy was an airline emplyee named kenny Christiansen
That is something I've never heard.  I always read that he jumped somewhere over the PAC NW and most people theorize that he died either in the jump, on landing, or of exposure on the ground.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 11:39:13 AM
𝗢𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗱𝗮𝘆 𝗶𝗻 1944, 𝗝𝗮𝗰𝗸𝗶𝗲 𝗥𝗼𝗯𝗶𝗻𝘀𝗼𝗻, 𝗮 𝗨.𝗦. 𝗔𝗿𝗺𝘆 𝘀𝗼𝗹𝗱𝗶𝗲𝗿 𝘄𝗵𝗼 𝘄𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱 𝗴𝗼 𝗼𝗻 𝘁𝗼 𝗯𝗿𝗲𝗮𝗸 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗰𝗼𝗹𝗼𝗿 𝗯𝗮𝗿𝗿𝗶𝗲𝗿 𝗶𝗻 𝗠𝗮𝗷𝗼𝗿 𝗟𝗲𝗮𝗴𝘂𝗲 𝗕𝗮𝘀𝗲𝗯𝗮𝗹𝗹, 𝗿𝗲𝗳𝘂𝘀𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗼 𝗺𝗼𝘃𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗯𝗮𝗰𝗸 𝗼𝗳 𝗮𝗻 𝗔𝗿𝗺𝘆 𝗯𝘂𝘀, 𝗹𝗲𝗮𝗱𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗼 𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗯𝗲𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗰𝗼𝘂𝗿𝘁-𝗺𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗶𝗮𝗹𝗲𝗱.
In 1942, Robinson was drafted and assigned to a segregated Army cavalry unit in Fort Riley, Kansas. Having the requisite qualifications, Robinson and several other black soldiers applied for admission to an Officer Candidate School (OCS) then located at Fort Riley. Although the Army's initial July 1941 guidelines for OCS had been drafted as race neutral, few black applicants were admitted into OCS until after subsequent directives by Army leadership. As a result, the applications of Robinson and his colleagues were delayed for several months. After protests by heavyweight boxing champion Joe Louis (then stationed at Fort Riley) and the help of Truman Gibson (then an assistant civilian aide to the Secretary of War), the men were accepted into OCS. The experience led to a personal friendship between Robinson and Louis. Upon finishing OCS, Robinson was commissioned as a second lieutenant in January 1943.
After receiving his commission, Robinson was reassigned to Fort Hood, Texas, where he joined the 761st "Black Panthers" Tank Battalion. While awaiting results of hospital tests on the ankle he had injured in junior college, Robinson boarded an Army bus with a fellow officer's wife; although the Army had commissioned its own unsegregated bus line, the bus driver ordered Robinson to move to the back of the bus. Robinson refused. The driver backed down, but after reaching the end of the line, summoned the military police, who took Robinson into custody. When Robinson later confronted the investigating duty officer about racist questioning by the officer and his assistant, the officer recommended Robinson be court-martialed. After Robinson's commander in the 761st, Paul L. Bates, refused to authorize the legal action, Robinson was summarily transferred to the 758th Battalion—where the commander quickly consented to charge Robinson with multiple offenses, including, among other charges, public drunkenness, even though Robinson did not drink.
By the time of the court-martial in August 1944, the charges against Robinson had been reduced to two counts of insubordination during questioning. Robinson was acquitted by an all-white panel of nine officers. The experiences Robinson was subjected to during the court proceedings would be remembered when he later joined MLB and was subjected to racist attacks. Although his former unit, the 761st Tank Battalion, became the first black tank unit to see combat in World War II, Robinson's court-martial proceedings prohibited him from being deployed overseas; thus, he never saw combat action.
After his acquittal, he was transferred to Camp Breckinridge, Kentucky, where he served as a coach for army athletics until receiving an honorable discharge in November 1944. While there, Robinson met a former player for the Kansas City Monarchs of the Negro American League, who encouraged Robinson to write the Monarchs and ask for a tryout. Robinson took the former player's advice and wrote to Monarchs' co-owner Thomas Baird.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 11:42:07 AM
I don't believe that for a second. It would just be different countries doing it.

As you are fond of saying, power corrupts.  USA with less power, results in someone else with more power, and therefore more corruption coming from that "someone else."

People are as predictable as the sun setting in the West, the tides, or OAM turning an innocuous discussion into something hateful and anti-religious.
you're right lol. but at least it wouldn't be our country doing it.

it was the British raping and pillaging and ruling the world before us, someone before them, and the Romans way way before them all. will probably be the Chinese after us.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 11:43:56 AM
you're right lol. but at least it wouldn't be our country doing it.

it was the British raping and pillaging and ruling the world before us, someone before them, and the Romans way way before them all. will probably be the Chinese after us.
It's already the Chinese.  And they're just as willing to do it to their own people, as they are to anyone else.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on February 01, 2022, 11:58:30 AM
I've read 20 million, it's still a tiny number.  There are a lot of Jews who are atheists/agnostics, in my experience, like Einstein for example (who did believe in a Creator).  They are not adherents to the religion itself but identify with the culture and heritage.  Of my Jewish acquaintances, NONE of them were religious.  One even went to a Jewish Temple for agnostics, I had never heard of such a thing.  It was about heritage. 

I suppose I am frightened of their space laser though.
I worked on a PhD at Hebrew Union College (a reformed Judaism seminary) back in the early 90s and the debate going on at the time was whether to admit Beth Adam (I believe that was the synagogue) which was an openly Agnostic synagogue.  I had a long discussion with one of my professors how they could argue to admit an openly agnostic synagogue and accept them as Jewish, but outright rejected several synagogues and say they are not Jewish that accepted Jesus as the Messiah.  So you could be a "religious" Jew and not believe in God, but you couldn't be one who believed that Jesus was the Messiah. Seemed contradictory to me, but made for a good debate. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 12:01:56 PM
It's already the Chinese.  And they're just as willing to do it to their own people, as they are to anyone else.
yeah, which is kind of crazy. there are so many of them, if they all decided to revolt - would be impossible for the government to control the situation. surprised that it hasn't happened yet. chinese people seem to love being virtual slaves to the state.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 12:05:23 PM
That is something I've never heard.  I always read that he jumped somewhere over the PAC NW and most people theorize that he died either in the jump, on landing, or of exposure on the ground. 
Their seems to be threads of believability in many suspects one of them made it into a roadside bar and asked some trucker for a ride and directions and he complied,And the trucker later picked the suspect out of a line up,problem was suspect wasn't recognized by any of the stewardesses,This McCoy guy they said Maybe.Also they think since the guy may have served in Nam he was familiar with jumping from the aft staircases of the 727s.He may have fained the 1st jump to set off the crew thinking he bailed between Portland and Seattle.Only to gently roll out an hour later.Because those stairs were bouncing all the way to Nevada - how would the crew really know
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 12:08:09 PM
yeah, which is kind of crazy. there are so many of them, if they all decided to revolt - would be impossible for the government to control the situation. surprised that it hasn't happened yet. chinese people seem to love being virtual slaves to the state.
Who knows maybe the virus was released to stem just a revolt.The people aren't stupid,they were the ones noticing a lot of doctors/scientists were dropping off the map and smuggling info/video out
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 12:19:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/yEwP8OS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2022, 12:45:21 PM
you're right lol. but at least it wouldn't be our country doing it.

it was the British raping and pillaging and ruling the world before us, someone before them, and the Romans way way before them all. will probably be the Chinese after us.
you sometimes sound like the hippies I used to hear on campus back in the 60s

you would fit right in

hay man ya got any chips man

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2022, 12:51:20 PM
Their seems to be threads of believability in many suspects one of them made it into a roadside bar and asked some trucker for a ride and directions and he complied,And the trucker later picked the suspect out of a line up,problem was suspect wasn't recognized by any of the stewardesses,This McCoy guy they said Maybe.Also they think since the guy may have served in Nam he was familiar with jumping from the aft staircases of the 727s.He may have fained the 1st jump to set off the crew thinking he bailed between Portland and Seattle.Only to gently roll out an hour later.Because those stairs were bouncing all the way to Nevada - how would the crew really know
That is interesting.  I saw a show where they mentioned that truck driver and the guy he picked up who he thinks was DB Cooper but I never heard the theory that he fooled everybody into believing he jumped out there then waited.  How do they explain the money that kid found up in the NW, a plant?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 01:34:29 PM
you sometimes sound like the hippies I used to hear on campus back in the 60s

you would fit right in

hay man ya got any chips man
yeah, well I don't know what to say to that, I'm the furthest thing from a hippy. 

if you're cool with the US doing f**ked up horrific shit all-around the world, well that's like on you man. :)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2022, 01:46:45 PM
yeah, well I don't know what to say to that, I'm the furthest thing from a hippy.

if you're cool with the US doing f**ked up horrific shit all-around the world, well that's like on you man. :)
Im never good with any bad thing a country does.  But if you could get a time machine and go back to that time era you would be amazed at how much you have in common with those guys.  I dont doubt your honestly saying what you believe but the message youre bringing is far from original.  Its just my age revealing itself.  BTW does this country do anything thats good or are we bad to the core.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 01:55:50 PM
Im never good with any bad thing a country does.  But if you could get a time machine and go back to that time era you would be amazed at how much you have in common with those guys.  I dont doubt your honestly saying what you believe but the message youre bringing is far from original.  Its just my age revealing itself.  BTW does this country do anything thats good or are we bad to the core.
of course we do great stuff. we send humanitarian aid all-around the world, we develop and innovate in the sciences, produce new technology and medical advancements better than any country on planet earth. this country also does a lot of bad shit around that world - but it's also one of the only countries in the world as utee94 pointed out - that has the power to do shit all around the world. And unfortunately, it abuses the awesome power it has continually - which is just what every power through history has done. The US is still the worlds lone super power. China pretends to be one, but they aren't. Not quite yet. They are like a baby super power that is trying to grow up and come after our throne. Still not there yet. 

I love this country and think it's the greatest country in the world to live in because of the freedoms and protections it grants it's owns citizens. It might not treat the rest of the world as great - but citizens of this country have it SO much better off in terms of freedoms and protections from their own government than in literally every other country in the entire world imo. would never live anywhere else because of this.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 01, 2022, 02:00:06 PM
 or OAM turning an innocuous discussion into something hateful and anti-religious.
I did what now?

Cincy suggested a battle of Christians beating Muslims was important - as if to say that the Muslims beating the Chrsitians would have been worse.

What else would you glean from this?  
The "hate" word (btw, when in the holy hell did this crowd get so triggered?) was alluding to the above idea in a joking manner.

I'm less guilty of turning the conversaion hateful and you're more guilty of freaking out over nothing.  As how a snowflake might.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 02:02:04 PM
I did what now?

Cincy suggested a battle of Christians beating Muslims was important - as if to say that the Muslims beating the Chrsitians would have been worse.

What else would you glean from this? 
The "hate" word (btw, when in the holy hell did this crowd get so triggered?) was alluding to the above idea in a joking manner.

I'm less guilty of turning the conversaion hateful and you're more guilty of freaking out over nothing.  As how a snowflake might.

Oh I too was only joking OAM.  Seems like you got triggered by just a little friendly ribbing.

Lighten up, Francis.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 01, 2022, 02:06:54 PM
 BTW does this country do anything thats good or are we bad to the core.
This isn't honest.  Stop it.
The US has many, MANY great things about it.

But as an overall criticism, I'd replace the silly "bad to the core" with perhaps something like "under severely greedy leadership" at every possible level.  

But I'm just an asshole hippy jerkface, so what do I know?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 02:08:31 PM
This isn't honest.  Stop it.
The US has many, MANY great things about it.

But as an overall criticism, I'd replace the silly "bad to the core" with perhaps something like "under severely greedy leadership" at every possible level. 

But I'm just an asshole hippy jerkface, so what do I know?
wait. I thought MDot was the hippy jerkface?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 02:12:40 PM
wait. I thought MDot was the hippy jerkface?
not a hippy but definitely a jerkface. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2022, 02:16:20 PM
This isn't honest.  Stop it.
The US has many, MANY great things about it.

But as an overall criticism, I'd replace the silly "bad to the core" with perhaps something like "under severely greedy leadership" at every possible level. 

But I'm just an asshole hippy jerkface, so what do I know?
OAM I assure you that you are not of hippie elk

you are kind of a cross between Rachel Maddow and Mr Rodgers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2022, 02:18:37 PM
not a hippy but definitely a jerkface.
you are too hard on yourself

but you should consider growing your hair long and acquiring of of Austin's finest

anyway I hope you know Im just messin with you
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 03:30:04 PM
Oh I too was only joking OAM.  Seems like you got triggered by just a little friendly ribbing.

Lighten up, Francis.
Any a you Homo's touch my shit - I'll kill ya
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 03:32:02 PM
OAM I assure you that you are not of hippie elk

you are kind of a cross between Rachel Maddow and Mr Rodgers Franscis
FIFY
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2022, 03:39:50 PM
FIFY
even better
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 03:48:15 PM
That is interesting.  I saw a show where they mentioned that truck driver and the guy he picked up who he thinks was DB Cooper but I never heard the theory that he fooled everybody into believing he jumped out there then waited.  How do they explain the money that kid found up in the NW, a plant? 
That part was from the agent who thought DB bailed in the desert around Reno.So another guy completely.I got to get into this book.They think McCoy was DB  lost the money in the 200,000 jump - I don't know where yet.But he had problems with the aft staircase to so he asked for and got 1/2 million on his next jump about 2 yrs later and they somehow nailed him.The guy got away 1/2x as he was in Special Forces in Nam.McCoy ended up getting gunned down by FBI agents.But the Feds dismissed him as DB for what ever reason .Some researchers are piecing together evidence he was DB
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 05:41:52 PM
you are kind of a cross between Rachel Maddow and Mr Rodgers
:043:

Tranny Rodgers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 05:48:07 PM
I did what now?

Cincy suggested a battle of Christians beating Muslims was important - as if to say that the Muslims beating the Chrsitians would have been worse.

What else would you glean from this? 
The battle was important, clearly, and makes most lists of most important battles in history.  I neither said nor implied anything about what could have been better or worse.

It simply was a pivotal battle in history, one sometimes overlooked in standard history classes in my experience.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2022, 12:01:57 AM
Okay, then why do many consider it so important?  Let's start there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 08:11:03 AM
Battles are considered important or not if they have rather obvious lasting influences over world history.  Had the battle gone the other way, life today would likely be very different in each case.  Imagine William had lost at Hastings, life would be very different today, or if the English had won at Orlean.  I don't fully agree with this list, I could think of some other critical battles also, and other lists have other items, but I think they all include Tours.

10 Epic Battles that Changed History | Live Science (https://www.livescience.com/42716-epic-battles-that-changed-history.html)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 08:11:17 AM
On this day in 1943, German Field Marshal Friedrich Paulus surrendered to Soviet troops at Stalingrad along with the bulk of the German Sixth Army and other Axis forces which had been encircled in the ruins of the city for over two months.
Of the over 300,000 Axis soldiers trapped in the pocket in November 1942, only approximately 100,000 remained alive at the time of surrender.
Stalingrad was one of the bloodiest battles in human history. More than 850,000 Axis soldiers were killed, wounded, or captured, while Soviet casualties numbered close to a million.
The defeat was crushing to Nazi Germany, and the losses to the Wehrmacht would prove fatal to the German war effort.
In Russia today, Stalingrad is remembered as one of the most famous battles of the "Great Patriotic War”. While the price paid for victory was high, its impact on the war was immeasurable, making it one of the most celebrated achievements of the Soviet Union during WWII.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 08:19:15 AM
Midway
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 08:24:29 AM
Midway might not make the list because if the US had lost there, the outcome would have been the same perhaps a bit delayed.  It was pivotal in the war effort, no doubt, because Japan went from being on the offensive to be on the defensive almost exactly at that point, they lost the core of their fleet and their experienced aviators.  Subsequent carrier battles showed an abrupt decline in pilot skill, so had for example, the US lost all 3 carriers and the Japanese had one damaged, all their pilots (nearly) would have survived to fight again.  Guadalcanal probably could not have happened.  The US was down to one carrier for a time in the Pacific (Enterprise).

But by late 1943, the US was building up its fleet in a hurry.  So, history would not have changed much, I think.

The same could be argued for Stalingrad had the Germans prevailed, they would have had a lodging there for a while but the Soviet war machine was just getting started.  The danger was if the Germans had managed to secure the Caucusus on its oil supplies.  Stalin MIGHT have made a deal deal.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 09:40:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/z8PuTHT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 09:44:12 AM
I would consider the Battle of Britain to be pivotal.  There was considerable pressure in GB to come to terms with Hitler, Churchill of course stood in the way of that, but Hitler was willing to offer generous terms.  It was a close thing, at one point the Germans were hitting airfields and radar, and a Brit raid on Berlin caused Hitler and Goering to shift resources to bombing cities.  Had they continued taking out radar and airfields ....

I don't know if Eagle would have happened anyway, but if the British were defeated in the air, they might well have had to ask for terms to avoid an invasion and further bombing.  Then Hitler could devote all his resources against Russia in 1941 and it could have been sufficient to knock Russia out of the war, perhaps leaving a rump state from the Urals east as "Russia".  All the oil and minerals would flow to Germany at that point, it's a bad look.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 02, 2022, 09:57:35 AM
Okay, then why do many consider it so important?  Let's start there.
I answered your line of thought last week...

I think the point that kicked this whole thing off was that if the Christians hadn't won the Battle of Tours, we might all be Muslim.

OAM assumed that this was a "thank God that didn't happen!" point and that it was an attack on Islam. I think he's half right, but missed the bigger point.

-------------

The half that he's right is that from hindsight bias as people of a Western nation where the Judeo-Christian tradition drove much of the history of our society, we take our current history for granted. We're all selfish and self-centered people, who have been raised a certain way and believe it's the right way. We tell ourselves that we never would have had liberal democracy without those Judeo-Christian values. That may even be true.

Of course, today's Muslims are selfish and self-centered, and have been raised a certain way and believe it's the right way. And that we're the wrong ones.

Funny how that works, eh?

The simple truth is that if the Christians had lost the Battle of Tours, and we were all Muslims today, we'd all be grateful that the "right" side had won and would be incredibly happy that our Muslim heritage had survived and flourished. Because we'd all have been raised that way.

-------------

Where I think OAM's criticism was wrong was that I didn't read any "attack" on Islam into the original post. But if the Muslims had won the Battle of Tours, it likely would have drastically altered the entire course of human civilization. Maybe it would have been for the better. Maybe it would have been for the worse.

But it's clear that the way the world developed over the last ~1300 years would be very different than it was. And society as it exists today would likely be very different than it is.

How, precisely, would it differ? I can't really say based on the state of Islam and the West in 2021. Because just as the West would have developed very differently [and perhaps not even be something we call "Western Civilization"], Islam would have developed very differently IMHO had they conquered Europe.

What we know based on previous conquerings is that often a conquering of a different land creates an inescapable blending of the cultures. Much of "Western" civilization is based on the mixing of cultures that occurred as various parts of Europe conquered each other over the centuries. The English language is a messed up amalgamation of diverse roots, some in Latin, some Germanic, and a fair bit that we've picked up elsewhere along the way. European culture in general is a giant mix. Add the Islam of the 700s into that mix and I can't predict what it would look like now.

But the thing that I can predict is that it would be very different than what it is today. Most of us--the selfish and self-centered people that we are--like what we have today, so by default we have to view that suspiciously.
Why was the battle important? Because if the Islamic Caliphate had conquered Europe, the entire world would likely look very different right now.

That doesn't mean it'd be worse. But as we're pretty attached to our lives the way they are, "different" is scary.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 10:31:29 AM
The Islamic world was considerably ahead of the Christian world circa 1000 AD, in some part because they welcomed Jews, who pioneered a lot of medical knowledge.  It is called by some the Islamic Golden Age.  Europe was fighting constant wars which gradually meant they became adept at it and developed new tactics and technical advances (though Mehmet subdued Constantinople in part with cannon, hired from the Viennese).

Had I a choice of where to live as a Jew in 1000 AD, I'd probably select an Islamic area.

Europe advanced greatly through colonization of the New World etc.  They gained in navigation and made discoveries as a result in part because they wanted to advance military naval power.  The New World made Europe rich.  And the Reformation led to the Rennaissance, or vice versa.  The center of power shifted from the Ottomans et al. to Europe.  Spain became incredibly wealthy.  Wealth = Power.

The Wahhabi version of Islam is in my view destructive and really bad.  The Muslims in general are not a problem, for me anyway.  Except I enjoy alcohol.

At any rate, the world would have been quite different with an alternative outcome, better or worse is your own judgment.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 02, 2022, 11:30:43 AM
The Wahhabi version of Islam is in my view destructive and really bad.  The Muslims in general are not a problem, for me anyway.  Except I enjoy alcohol.
extremely destructive - and 100% of it emanates from Saudi Arabia - our closest ally in the mid-east. Go figure. The Saudi's have spent over $100 billion in the last couple decades or so exporting this abortion and perversion of the Islam religion around the Muslim world - building schools, mosques, and out-reach centers in countries all around the world.

Not all "terrorists" are Muslim. But virtually all terrorists are followers of wahhabism.

The US is what you would call between a rock and a hard place with the Saudis. They've got us by the short hairs.

The US also does itself no favors when it comes to terrorism. Our government spent billions of dollars and used our CIA to radicalize, arm and train the Mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 80s to fight the Soviets. The remnants and off-shoots of these f***king animals became Al-Qaeda - which went on to attack the US in countless terror attacks - and they also became the Taliban and took over Afghanistan and threw that country and those people into the dark ages. CIA calls this blowback - unintended consequence and unwanted side-effects from our meddling in foreign countries. Sometimes the best course of action is...just to stay the F out.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 02, 2022, 11:31:44 AM
Midway
I am very interested in WWII history and particularly the Pacific War but I agree with @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) as to why this shouldn't be included:
Midway might not make the list because if the US had lost there, the outcome would have been the same perhaps a bit delayed.  It was pivotal in the war effort, no doubt, because Japan went from being on the offensive to be on the defensive almost exactly at that point, they lost the core of their fleet and their experienced aviators.  Subsequent carrier battles showed an abrupt decline in pilot skill, so had for example, the US lost all 3 carriers and the Japanese had one damaged, all their pilots (nearly) would have survived to fight again.  Guadalcanal probably could not have happened.  The US was down to one carrier for a time in the Pacific (Enterprise).

But by late 1943, the US was building up its fleet in a hurry.  So, history would not have changed much, I think.
I highly recommend this book by Anthony Tully and Jonathan Parshall (https://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Sword-Untold-Battle-Midway/dp/1574889249).  The two of them also run a website that covers these issues and here is a tab they call "Grim Economic Realities (http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm)".  From that page, compared to Japan the US had:

Midway is often referred to as the "turning point" and in a way it was, but the outcome of the war was effectively fore-ordained.  The US launched the first of the Essex Class Carriers in July, 1942 and commissioned it in December of that year.  From then through the end of the war the US commissioned a brand new Essex Class Carrier roughly every other month:
In total that is:

Additionally the first of the new and MUCH larger Midway Class Carriers was commissioned within days of the Japanese Surrender and if the situation had warranted the original six planned Midways could all have been completed.  


On that Grim Economic Realities tab that I linked above the authors have a hypothetical comparison of what the carrier situation would have looked like if the US had lost catastrophically at Midway (all three US carriers lost (Enterprise, Hornet, Yorktown) and no Japanese losses.  In that case, the comparison would have been bad for the US for a while:

I'll let Parschall and Tully speak for themselves:

All this is to say that Midway isn't all that important in a macro-historical sense because there really was no way for the Japanese to win so the individual battles do nothing to impact the final result.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 11:35:42 AM
The Hidden Roots of Wahhabism in British India on JSTOR (https://www.jstor.org/stable/40209967)

Wahhabism: What is it and why does it matter? | The Week UK (https://www.theweek.co.uk/87832/wahhabism-what-is-it-and-why-does-it-matter#:~:text=Wahhabism is extensively practised in,called it by their opponents.)

Wahhabism is extensively practised in Saudi Arabia, but has since spread. The term Wahhabism is often seen as derogatory – followers were first called it by their opponents. Many therefore prefer to call themselves salafis, in reference to the salaf – the first, second and third generation of people who lived at the time of the Prophet Muhammad. Others just call themselves Muslims, although, as The Independent says, this implies that "Muslims who do not share their particular interpretation of Islam are not proper Muslims at all (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/wahhabism-a-deadly-scripture-398516.html)". In 2015, Muslims in Britain estimated that 8.6 per cent of British mosques were Salafi (http://www.muslimsinbritain.org/resources/masjid_report.pdf).  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2022, 11:50:46 AM
yes the Japanese would have eventually lost even if they had won Midway

But the moral boost of the actual battle is not being considered

this alone makes it a key event which shortened the war by years and saved thousands of lives
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 11:57:04 AM
It was a key battle no doubt.  We would have had little to no chance of taking Guadalcanal in August of 1942 had we lost Midway badly.  I'd say no chance at all, which means the shipping lanes to Australia would have come under significant pressure.  The Japanese plan was to take and fortify an outer defense ring include New Guinea and Midway and for the US to take each with casualties that might have led to a negotiated peace.

It is conceivable that could have happened.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 02, 2022, 12:07:36 PM
The same could be argued for Stalingrad had the Germans prevailed, they would have had a lodging there for a while but the Soviet war machine was just getting started.  The danger was if the Germans had managed to secure the Caucusus on its oil supplies.  Stalin MIGHT have made a deal deal.
I think with this one it is hard to say whether the Battle of Moscow or the Siege of Leningrad or the Battle of Stalingrad was THE pivotal battle.  The Soviets *MIGHT* have persisted without Leningrad and/or Moscow and Stalingrad *MIGHT* be too late because by then, as you pointed out, the Soviet war machine was getting up to speed.  

I guess I'd say that somewhere between Barbarossa and Paulus' surrender was pivotal.  I think it is possible that the Soviets could have collapsed just as Russia collapsed in WWI.  A big part of the reason that they didn't was that the German army had to keep switching targets/focus as Hitler kept changing his mind.  A secondary reason is that the Germans invaded on a HUMONGOUS front stretching from the Baltic Sea in the North to the Black Sea in the South and ultimately expanding from Lake Ladoga in the North nearly to the Caspian Sea in the South.  

If they had focused more on one objective (Leningrad in the North, Moscow in the center, or the Caucuses in the South) they would undoubtedly have been able to achieve that ONE objective in 1941 rather than coming up just short on all three.  Considering the three:

Leningrad:
Taking this City probably wouldn't have mattered much.  In the event they had it surrounded for more than two years, destroyed most of it and caused literally hundreds of thousands of casualties and the Soviets were able to continue the war.  The major impact of taking Leningrad would have been that the German troops surrounding the City would have been freed up for use elsewhere such as . . .

Moscow:
Some people will tell you that losing Moscow wouldn't have been a big deal for the Soviets because they could have just kept retreating and there is famously a LOT of land East of the Ural Mountains.  In some respects that is true but it ignores the fact that as a centrally planned economy everything in the Soviet Union was centered on Moscow.  It was not only their largest City, and Capitol but it was also:

Losing Moscow for the Soviets would have been something akin to the US losing Washington, NYC, Detroit, and Chicago all at once.  Additionally there is the psychological impact.  Stalin was hardly a beloved leader in large portions of the Soviet Union and if he had lost his Capitol and communications/transportation hub it isn't all that unlikely that the USSR would have disintegrated into revolution just as Russia did (without losing Moscow) about 30 years earlier.  

Caucuses:
My view is that this would have been the best strategic target for the Germans in 1941.  As I stated above, taking Leningrad wouldn't have been THAT much different that surrounding and destroying it.  Moscow is a big gamble.  If taking Moscow results in the USSR collapsing then that is great for the Germans but if it doesn't then they still have to keep their army fueled and there isn't any oil in Moscow.  There is Oil in the Caucuses, a lot of it.  Getting that oil does two things:

#2 is obviously a lot easier than #1.  In order to accomplish #1 the Germans would have needed all of the following:
In order to accomplish goal #2 all that is needed to deprive the Soviets of any one of the four steps to accomplishing goal #1.  

The Soviets did have some minor other oil supplies and certainly the US would have ramped up Lend-Lease Oil but even the US didn't have unlimited transport capacity.  Any ship carrying petroleum products wouldn't have been able to carry whatever else the Soviets needed.  

Getting the Caucuses is much less of a gamble than getting Moscow because even if the Soviets keep fighting, their ability to fight is significantly diminished because T34's don't run on water and meanwhile the German ability to fight is significantly improved because BF109's are much more effective when they have gas.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 12:13:52 PM
I would consider the Battle of Britain to be pivotal.  
Same thing as Midway might have taken longer but USA supplies Stalin thru Pacific routes to Murmansk .Kaiser Ship Building was completing Liberty Ships in 2-3 weeks.So the War gets dragged on a few more yrs.Sometimes the British i.e.Monty were an impediment to the war effort
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 12:14:46 PM
I used to play a computer war game about this invasion, and I found the best approach is to take Leningrad first, not that this reflects reality of course.  It links you up with the Finns who can assist in suppressing saboteurs in the rear areas and allows an attack on Moscow from the northwest.  Taking Moscow does cause the Russian all sorts of problems.  In reality I agree with the southern approach, and in 1942 they almost pulled it off.

Guderian wrote a very self serving book about how he could have won the war without Hitler's interference, a lot of other writers have contested that premise.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 02, 2022, 12:15:28 PM
On this day in 1943, German Field Marshal Friedrich Paulus surrendered to Soviet troops at Stalingrad along with the bulk of the German Sixth Army and other Axis forces which had been encircled in the ruins of the city for over two months.
Of the over 300,000 Axis soldiers trapped in the pocket in November 1942, only approximately 100,000 remained alive at the time of surrender.
Stalingrad was one of the bloodiest battles in human history. More than 850,000 Axis soldiers were killed, wounded, or captured, while Soviet casualties numbered close to a million.
The defeat was crushing to Nazi Germany, and the losses to the Wehrmacht would prove fatal to the German war effort.
In Russia today, Stalingrad is remembered as one of the most famous battles of the "Great Patriotic War”. While the price paid for victory was high, its impact on the war was immeasurable, making it one of the most celebrated achievements of the Soviet Union during WWII.
It is even worse because they lost North Africa at about the same time and lost a similar number of troops there.  Losses on that scale are staggering and the Germans simply couldn't make up for them.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 02, 2022, 12:27:17 PM
Same thing as Midway might have taken longer but USA supplies Stalin thru Pacific routes to Murmansk .Kaiser Ship Building was completing Liberty Ships in 2-3 weeks.So the War gets dragged on a few more yrs.Sometimes the British i.e.Monty were an impediment to the war effort
I see Monty as an interesting character who gets somewhat unfairly run down here in the US.  He was an EXTREMELY cautious general and that was just what the situation called for in North Africa where supply lines were threatened and resupply could not be counted on.  The problem is that he was still EXTREMELY cautious a few years later when the Allies controlled the seas and skies and any overreach could be covered by massively superior air and sea power and any cut off troops could be resupplied without too much difficulty.  

That is a little bit like a great coach who is overly attached to a power run game.  He is a great coach if he happens to have the right personnel to run THAT offense.  If he has Humongous run-blocking O-Linemen, a great runner who can function as a QB, and WR's who are good at blocking he'll have a lot of success.  However, if he has smaller pass-blocking O-Linemen, a great pocket passer who doesn't move well as a QB, and speedy WR's who are great at catching passes but suck at blocking then that coach will fail.  

I see Admiral Halsey as the inverse.  He was famously aggressive and that worked out great when the right answer was to be aggressive but it also caused a lot of problems (such as for Taffy-3 off the Island of Samar) when being overly-aggressive was decidedly NOT the right answer.  

Which commander (or coach) is better?  Well that depends on whether the situation calls for a cautious or an aggressive commander (or whether you have the personnel to run or pass).  If Halsey had been in charge in North Africa the British might have lost Egypt.  If Monty had been in charge in the South Pacific he might still be waiting to accumulate enough forces to invade Guadalcanal.   

A REALLY great commander (or coach) is one who can correctly figure out what the situation warrants then do that even if it isn't necessarily in his comfort zone.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 12:28:27 PM
N.Africa was strategically not important to the USA,while it may have gotten the troops some experience there was nothing similar to the landscape/topography of Europe like the bocage or thick woods,rivers/ravines


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 12:29:02 PM
I'm thinking if the Brits lose the air battle over the island, they sue for peace, and Hitler turns east.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 12:30:15 PM
N.Africa was strategically not important to the USA,while it may have gotten the troops some experience there was nothing similar to the landscape/topography of Europe like the bocage or thick woods,rivers/ravines
The Suez was strategically important of course.  It virtually knocked Italy out of the war, in effect.  Much has been made of the "soft underbelly" strategy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 12:36:11 PM
And no Monty does not get unfairly run down he was neither tactically or stratecally gifted.Churchill had his cockups in the Desert removing troops from Richard O'Connor - the original desert fox and moving them to Greece proved disasterous in both places .Also Claude Auchileck had just won 1st El Alamein when Churchill removed him for no damn good reason really.And installed monty who benefitted greatly from the Allied build up that previous commanders had much to do with.Monty took a month longer to go on an offensive than The Auk who had lined the ridge at Alam Halfa with the massive mine field that the butch bernard try telling the press was his own
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 12:44:49 PM
The Market Garden operation was very unlike Monty.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 12:49:48 PM
The Suez was strategically important of course.  It virtually knocked Italy out of the war, in effect.  Much has been made of the "soft underbelly" strategy.
ITALY - really that was another Churchill cock up.It was here that Marshall/FDR/IKE started clashing with the brandy adled Englishman. Just to sail supplies/men/materiel from South Hampton to like Salerno was 2500 nautical miles(I've read)It was like 12-1400 miles in a straight line. And the Alps stretch across the top of Italy Hannibal crossed it like 3,000 yrs ago.You get a Division of Gerries up there and they'd hold it just like the Austrians did in Slovenia during WWI at the Ljubljana Pass.Hell just taking  Monte Cassino was 4 months
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 12:57:25 PM
The Market Garden operation was very unlike Monty.
No it really was as far as his mess ups   Read Hastings,Beevor,Barr,Barnett,Bennet,Atkinson,McManus keegan,Kershaw

I time stamped this listen over the next couple of minutes.It's intersting When time alots watch the whole thing a well done piece IMO

https://youtu.be/duOYnIGivys?t=1579
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2022, 01:12:52 PM
The Battle of Britain really was more of a campaign 

The British were out manned and the main reason they won this was the stupid decision by the Germans to stop concentrating on the air fields and other defenses and start going after the cities instead

this gave Britain time to catch its breath and beat them
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 01:28:29 PM
The Poles had perhaps the best group of pilots there.It took a while but they were acknowledged unlike their boys who fought at Market Garden
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 01:35:09 PM
A factor also was range of the German fighters, they didn't have much combat time over England, and if shot down, they either died or were captured.

The Me-110 was not very useful as a fighter.  Fighters had short legs in 1940, for the most part.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 01:42:05 PM
A factor also was range of the German fighters, they didn't have much combat time over England, and if shot down, they either died or were captured.

The Me-110 was not very useful as a fighter.  Fighters had short legs in 1940, for the most part.
The Spit and Hurricanes had the same problem if they went across like 15 minutes fighting time before turning around.A lot of Luftwaffe pilots were supposedly clipped this way heading back
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2022, 01:51:37 PM
The Spit and Hurricanes had the same problem if they went across like 15 minutes fighting time before turning around.A lot of Luftwaffe pilots were supposedly clipped this way heading back
come on P51D
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2022, 02:09:23 PM
come on P51D
(https://i.imgur.com/QrQEClD.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 02:11:17 PM
The P51D used an Allison licensed version of the same engine used in Spitfires (Merlin).  It had more efficient wings and drop tanks.

The P51 with its original engine was a dog.

I think the Merlin was a 27 L V-12.  That is rather larger than car engines though someone put one in a car on back.

The US often liked radial engines like the Wright Cyclone, the Germans used both.  Pluses and minuses.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 02, 2022, 03:00:38 PM
A factor also was range of the German fighters, they didn't have much combat time over England, and if shot down, they either died or were captured.
Both of those factors are humongous advantages that accrue naturally to the defender and contributed significantly to the British ultimately winning.  If a Spitfire and a Bf109 were both damaged in a dogfight over London and the pilots had to bail out, the Spitfire pilot was back in the air in a new plane in a few days while the Bf109 pilot spent the rest of the war at a POW camp in the US.  That led to much greater attrition of German than of British pilots.  

To a somewhat lesser but still significant extent the same was true for the planes.  Use the same example as above but replace the planes damaged so badly as to require bailing out with planes that can still land but have limited flight time due to something like a destroyed radiator.  In that case the Bf109 pilot's correct response is to bail out so that he survives and his plan is NOT captured.  Nonetheless both plane and pilot are lost to Germany.  Conversely the Spitfire pilot's correct response is to put the plane down on any large open space such as a pasture or roadway.  Both plane and pilot are back in action in a few days.  

Sometimes people don't think through the implications of the time issue.  If flight time from German airbases in Northern France is an hour (each way) and the fighters have 15 minutes of combat time then that does a LOT prop up British numbers.  Suppose that the Germans are launching a raid that will involve an hour of dogfighting (say from noon to 1pm) over England.  In order to have one plane over that space for the entire hour it takes four planes:
Thus, the Germans need four fighters to match each one British fighter in a prolonged dogfight and a 2:1 German superiority in overall numbers results in a 2:1 British superiority in numbers actually in the fight at any one time.  

The Germans could (and did) attempt to get around this problem by concentrating their forces for shorter actions with all hands on deck at once but that requires a level of coordination that is great theoretically but nearly impossible to achieve in practice.  

Also, as mentioned by someone upthread, a lot of German fighters were picked off on their way home when their fuel situation did not allow for radical maneuvering (dogfighting) or any serious attempt to shoot down their attackers.  All they could do was to try to evade their attackers and get home.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 07:23:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/H36imXP.png)

Polo Grounds and Yankee Stadium, separated by the Harlem River—circa mid-1950s.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 08:20:39 PM
The P51D used an Allison licensed version of the same engine used in Spitfires (Merlin).  It had more efficient wings and drop tanks.

The P51 with its original engine was a dog.

I think the Merlin was a 27 L V-12.  That is rather larger than car engines though someone put one in a car on back.

The US often liked radial engines like the Wright Cyclone, the Germans used both.  Pluses and minuses.


The original allison was actually faster than the merlin but not above 14,000 for whatever reason. Packard made the Merlin state side and Fords british subsidiary did in England.Packard added the Bendix-Stromberg Pressure Carb that fixed the stalling problem they had.Prolly close to fuel injection like the ME 109 Daimler-Benz
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 08:46:30 PM
Superchargers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 02, 2022, 11:05:27 PM
The original allison was actually faster than the merlin but not above 14,000 for whatever reason. Packard made the Merlin state side and Fords british subsidiary did in England.Packard added the Bendix-Stromberg Pressure Carb that fixed the stalling problem they had.Prolly close to fuel injection like the ME 109 Daimler-Benz
That "whatever reason" was:
Superchargers
At altitude the air gets thinner so you can use more boost without blowing up your manifold or engine.  The North American Engineers couldn't use the variable speed supercharged version of that Allison V12 because they were all allocated to the twin-engined P38.  The Merlin was a great engine but the Allison wasn't any worse provided you compare the appropriately turbo-supercharged version.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 07:13:45 AM
I didn't know that
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 07:45:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Vr5dpdj.jpg)

French Army's wine stock at Gallipoli 1915.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2022, 07:57:50 AM
Superchargers
Think it might have been "Tubo" working off exhaust and not direct drive which would require a little more HP
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 08:01:16 AM
Yeah, they generally were turbosuperchargers, I wonder where Allison got them for the Merlin if they were allocated for the P38.

Those were complex engines, My dad's B24 had issues with them frequently.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 08:43:30 AM

 (https://www.quora.com/profile/Richard-Cownie-1)Richard Cownie
 (https://www.quora.com/profile/Richard-Cownie-1)
, grew up w/ stacks of Aviation Weekly
Answered 11 months ago (https://www.quora.com/Why-was-the-Merlin-engine-better-than-the-Allison/answer/Richard-Cownie-1) · Author has 1K answers and 869.5K answer views

The Allison engine was a clever, elegant design with relatively few parts, designed by a fairly small company which didn’t have the engineering and manufacturing resources to quickly fix all the design, manufacturing, and quality-control problems.

Technically, it didn’t have a two-stage supercharger which would allow it to give high power at higher altitudes - whereas the Merlin had a number of different variants with highly-optimized superchargers designed by Stanley Hooker, who was head and shoulders above everyone else in the world in that particular field of engineering. The favored US solution was to use a General Electric turbocharger in aircraft designed for high altitude missions - but turbocharger installations were bulky and complex, and managing the interactions of turbocharger, intercooler, and engine across a wide range of altitude and weather conditions was a hard problem that Allison, GE, and aircraft manufacturers didn’t really figure out until too late.

The Merlin was a complex engine, sometimes described as “a watchmaker’s nightmare”. But Rolls-Royce had the expertise and the resources to make it work well enough, and (together with Ford UK and Packard) to produce it with high quality in high volume. Britain more or less went all-in to make the Merlin work, and thank God it *did* work, even as early as mid-1940 when Merlin-engined Hurricanes and Spitfires defeated the Luftwaffe. In the USA, on the the other hand, a larger proportion of engineering resources went into radial engines, and the Allison was underdeveloped.

TL; DR you get what you pay for, and the Allison wasn’t given enough priority and resources to become fully mature and robust across a range of applications.

[Update: a book review here goes into more detail about problems with uneven fuel-air mixture due to the Allison’s manifold design; and Allison’s corporate policy of not spending their own money to make design changes, and avoiding major design changes.

An Apologetica for Allison and the V-1710 engine (https://www.amazon.com/review/R1Z2CR1FQWKYGL)


“Whitney does point out that during WWII, Allison had in place a policy of not using its own corporate funds to develop or improve its engines. Allison did make some efforts to improve the V-1710 as the war progressed, but it also had in place a policy of making as few changes as possible to the basic engine; as a result, thorough re-designs to correct persistent problems were never done and so later upgraded versions of the V-1710 were unable to reach the same level of reliability and performance as the Merlin (and later, the Griffin) engines.


The V-1710's manifold had 4 pipes feeding 3 cylinders (unlike the common plenum chamber design of the Merlin) and so was inherently prone to providing poor air-fuel distribution into the cylinders, leading to this problem of premature detonations in the cylinders whenever the engine was stressed to produce high power under unfavorable circumstances (e.g., in combat at 30,000 feet). The later two-stage supercharger was also a tacked on afterthought lacking all of the refined features of the Merlin's two-stage supercharger (chiefly, a backfire screen and an intercooler - the two-stage supercharger V-1710 used only anti-detonation injection to prevent detonation inside the supercharger) and was also prone to failure.“]




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 08:49:43 AM
It was Packard who built Merlins on license, not Allison, my bad.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 08:53:46 AM
In answer to a request from the British Air Ministry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Ministry) for a high-altitude Merlin for the pressurised Wellington VI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Wellington#Variants) high-altitude bomber, a Rolls-Royce team under the direction of Stanley Hooker (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Hooker) developed a Merlin with two-stage supercharging, which became the Merlin 60-series. The first 60-series engine ran in March 1941, and was first flown in July the same year.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packard_V-1650_Merlin#cite_note-4) When only 63 examples of the otherwise-cancelled Wellington VI were produced, these engines were instead introduced on the Spitfire IX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire) as the Merlin 61.

This model was later produced by Packard as the V-1650-3 and became known as the "high altitude" Merlin destined for the P-51, the first two-stage Merlin-Mustang conversion flying with a Merlin 61[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packard_V-1650_Merlin#cite_note-5) as the Mustang X (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Mustang_Mk.X) in October 1942, the production V-1650-3 engined P-51B (Mustang III) entering service in 1943. The two-speed, two-stage supercharger section of the two-stage Merlins and V-1650-3 featured two separate impellers on the same shaft that were normally driven through a gear train at a ratio of 6.391:1. A hydraulic gear change arrangement of oil-operated clutches could be engaged by an electric solenoid to increase this ratio to 8.095:1 in high speed blower position.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

The high speed gear ratio of the impellers was not as high as the ratio used in the Allison (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_V-1710), but impeller speed is not the only factor that determines engine performance, which is also a function of the size and pitch of the impeller blades. The gear-driven supercharger is a parasitic accessory; therefore, impeller gearing and blade profiles are carefully designed for maximum power at altitude without compromise of available power at the critical take off stage of flight. The double staging of the compressed fuel/air mixture provided the boost pressure through a diffuser to the intake manifolds that increased the critical altitude (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_altitude) of the power plant.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

The ability of the supercharger to maintain a sea level atmosphere in the induction system to the cylinders allowed the Packard Merlin to develop more than 1,270 horsepower (950 kW) above 30,000 feet (9,100 m).[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] The two-stage impeller created extreme heating of the fuel/air mixture during the compression process, and, to prevent detonation of the compressed charge, it was necessary to cool the mixture prior to entry into the cylinders. The cooling was accomplished in an intercooler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercooler#Air-to-liquid_intercoolers) passage cast into the wheel case housing between the first and second-stage impellers.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] Ethylene glycol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol) coolant was circulated by a pump through this passage to carry off the excess heat generated by the impellers. Without the intercooler the temperature of the charge could be as high as 400 °F (204 °C).[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] The intercooler in itself was not adequate to deal with the high temperature and an additional cooling fin and tube core was placed between the outlet of the blower and the induction manifold to the cylinders. This radiator was known as an aftercooler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftercooler) and served as a reservoir for the supercharger cooling system. The glycol mixture used for cooling was independent of the main engine cooling system and used a centrifugal pump driven by the engine to circulate the coolant through an aircraft radiator system at a maximum rate of 36 U.S. gallons (136 litres, 30 Imperial gallons) per minute, depending on engine rpm.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] This combined system reduced the charge temperature to suitable levels.

Throttle valves in the updraft carburettor throat were controlled by an automatic boost control through the throttle linkage to maintain the selected manifold pressure with changes in altitude. The valves were only partially open during ground and low-level operation to prevent overboosting of the engine. As air density decreases with increased altitude, the throttle valves were progressively opened in response to the reducing atmospheric pressure. This system provided full power within engine boost limitations up to the critical altitude of 26,000 feet (7,900 m).[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 01:40:42 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/mIfhAY3.png)

The term corvette is derived from the French word for “sloop,” a name suggested by Winston Churchill, who while filling the role of First Lord of the Admiralty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Lord_of_the_Admiralty) remembered such a ship from the days of fighting sail. Originally, vessels in the class were named after types of flowers, such as HMS Gladiolus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Gladiolus_(K34)) and HMS Tulip (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Tulip_(K29)). The corvettes’ odd naming convention also retained an element of British cheekiness: It was thought “that one of Hitler’s sea wolves (U-boats) [having] been destroyed by a vessel named for a flower” would be a public relations victory in Britain and an embarrassment to the Nazis. Conversely, Canadian Flower-class vessels primarily assumed the names of Canadian cities and towns as a means to instill national pride and forge a connection between the population and the country’s relatively young navy. However, there were notable exceptions to this naming convention for Canadian corvettes built in British yards and initially intended for the Royal Navy, such as HMCS Snowberry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Snowberry)

They were “broad, chunky, and graceless”
The Flower-class was modest but effective. Nicholas Monsarrat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Monsarrat) described HMS Compass Rose, the fictional corvette in his great work The Cruel Sea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cruel_Sea_(novel)), as “two hundred feet long, broad, chunky, and graceless: designed purely for anti-submarine work, and not much more than a floating platform for depth charges, she was the prototype of a class of ship which could be produced quickly and cheaply in the future, to meet the urgent demands of convoy escort.” Monsarrat’s description is both poetic and accurate. The corvette was a mere 205 feet long, 33 feet in the beam, with a 12-foot draft. In general appearance, the Canadian and British corvettes were nearly indistinguishable. The hull was divided into three sections: accommodations were primarily in the forward third of the ship, the midships section contained machinery and engineering spaces, while the aft section contained additional accommodations, storage for provisions, and steering gear. 

(https://i0.wp.com/militaryhistorynow.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Aconit42_net-2.jpg?resize=650%2C262&ssl=1)A Flower-class corvette in profile. (Image source: WikiMedia Commons)
The design was based on the whaling vessel Southern Pride (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Pride), but with modifications to the hull, superstructure, internal layout, and technical equipment. Flower-class corvettes were deliberately simple, allowing for quick production in smaller shipyards such that larger, more experienced shipyards could focus on the manufacture of larger, more advanced warships. Moreover, the simplicity of the corvette allowed for simple and straight-forward operation by the green sailors who would crew them.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 02:37:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/LurOUMV.png)

On this day in 1848, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was signed, ending the Mexican-American War. After nearly two years of fighting, the U.S. Army had completely overwhelmed the forces of Mexican President and General Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna. As such, the terms of peace were exceedingly in the United States’ favor. These included the establishment of the Rio Grande River as the border between Texas and Mexico, and the ceding of land that today includes most of the states of California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona. (The remainder of the Southwest was acquired by the Gadsden Purchase in 1853).
This massive territorial expansion had been a stated goal of U.S. President James K. Polk, and directly fed into the idea of Manifest Destiny (that the US was destined to range “from sea to shining sea”). But it also directly fueled political tensions over the issue of slavery, and its expansion into these newly acquired territories. Mexico had abolished slavery in 1829, and so many of the new American citizens living in the  West were divided. Implementation of slavery in these areas would give power to the institution and its champions, and already the fear of what this could mean spread throughout the country.
In the end, after numerous political debates and minor compromises, fears were momentarily abated. Other than Texas, no other part of the Mexican Cession would choose to adopt the institution. But the issue of the hypothetical expansion of slavery would hang over the head of the nation until the Civil War brought the conflict to its greatest point. As the poet Ralph Waldo Emerson so prophetically put it prior to the start of the War: “The U.S. will conquer Mexico, but it will be as the man swallows the arsenic, which brings him down in turn. Mexico will poison us."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2022, 03:09:18 PM


Throttle valves in the updraft carburettor throat were controlled by an automatic boost control through the throttle linkage to maintain the selected manifold pressure with changes in altitude. 


Idk what any of this means, but if I still had my Jeep, I'd try to install it and see how it goes...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2022, 03:25:32 PM
Idk what any of this means, but if I still had my Jeep, I'd try to install it and see how it goes...
Unless you needed performance at 20,000 ft altitude, it'd be a waste :57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 03, 2022, 03:27:31 PM
Unless you needed performance at 20,000 ft altitude, it'd be a waste :57:
Driving up Everest?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2022, 03:30:57 PM
Unless you needed performance at 20,000 ft altitude, it'd be a waste :57:
Closest I've come to that is the high mountain passes around central Colorado.  
Being above the timber line was cool.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 04:04:57 PM
Modern turbo applications of course are quite advanced and electronic and very effective I find.  My last two vehicles were both 2.0 L turbos and both worked very well, no detectable lag except at very low RPM.  A turbo would be even more useful if you live in Colorado.

Fuel injection is a big deal these days vs the old carbs.  I'm rather amazed how advanced ICE's are today.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2022, 04:57:25 PM
Being above the timber line was cool. 
You were drunk in the desert again weren't you
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 05:05:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Cl8lYGw.jpg)

Above the tree line.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 05:06:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vpfTL43.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 05:13:42 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ha30cdy.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 05:22:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MagyBKt.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 05:22:45 PM
Extra credit if you know the location of those photos.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2022, 05:30:42 PM
Extra credit if you know the location of those photos.
Dude...

I TOLD you not to be posting pictures of my vacation home!

You won't be invited back...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 05:54:29 PM
Extra credit if you know the location of those photos.
in the mountains
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 05:56:04 PM
Extra credit if you know the location of those photos.
Austria
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 06:31:43 PM
Good guess and close
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 06:41:06 PM
Good guess and close
Switzerland
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2022, 06:50:47 PM
Obviously, it's the Netherhollands.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 07:05:28 PM
Another good close guess 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 07:07:01 PM
Another good close guess
dude, where? lol.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 07:19:33 PM
at first I thought it was Eagles Nest in Bavaria but after looking at it closely I dont think so
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 07:40:21 PM
Mont Blanc, the French side, near Chamonix.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2022, 07:48:36 PM
Mont Blanc, the French side, near Chamonix.
Good pens 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 07:48:52 PM
Mont Blanc, the French side, near Chamonix.
damn I was gonna guess that next
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2022, 12:11:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/vpfTL43.jpg)
Rocky Top - Drew's digs
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2022, 10:27:39 AM
24 Accurate War Movies That Absolutely Got It Right (ranker.com) (https://www.ranker.com/list/accurate-war-movies/justin-andress?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=historypost&pgid=642850749204637&utm_campaign=accurate-war-movies&fbclid=IwAR0K0T8PqKrfT_EoK0bpQ2o7MLWG43wNeyE630DDXjQmcMiNODlUiaawlso)

A Bridge Too Far, directed by Richard Attenborough, tells the story of an allied attempt to enter Northern Germany in 1944 in order to "drop paratroopers in the German-occupied Netherlands, seize bridges behind enemy lines, and make way for a full invasion," according to The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/film/2009/jul/15/a-bridge-too-far-reel-history). The attempt was called "Market Garden" and veterans of the operation, including John Addison with the British XXX Corps and a man named Dirk Bogarde, were involved in the making of the film. 
A Bridge Too Far is praised for its accuracy in regard to its depiction of character and those involved in the actual event. Though it suffers from a few inaccuracies and has been considered rather drab by those looking for entertainment, the film is still considered by veterans as a mostly faithful depiction of an important moment in history. 

More A Bridge Too Far  (https://www.ranker.com/review/a-bridge-too-far/521541?ref=morenode)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 04, 2022, 10:45:03 AM
I think there is a segment of Band of Brothers on this
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2022, 01:03:40 PM
On This Day in History > February 4, 1783:

King George III declares a permanent ceasefire to the American Revolution
"On February 4, 1783, King George III declares a permanent ceasefire to the American Revolution. After the surrender of General Charles Cornwallis' army at Yorktown, Virginia in October, 1781, many members of Parliament decided it was time to end the war. The House of Commons first voted to end the war on February 27, 1782 and in March, Prime Minister North resigned.
By April 4, General Henry Clinton was replaced as Commander of British forces in North America by Sir Guy Carleton, who was charged with implementing a withdrawal. Informal peace negotiations began in April in Paris between Ben Franklin and Richard Oswald, the representative of the new Prime Minister, Charles Watson Wentworth, the Marquess of Rockingham.
By September, 1782, John Jay had arrived in Paris from Spain and John Adams had arrived from Holland. They joined the now formal peace negotiations and on November 30, a preliminary peace treaty is signed, in which Britain acknowledges the sovereignty of the United States, the boundaries of the United States are determined and Britain agrees to withdraw its forces from US territory.
The preliminary treaty is ratified by Parliament on January 20, 1783 and a ceasefire is declared by King George on February 4. The American Congress declares a ceasefire on April 11 and ratifies the preliminary treaty on April 15, 1783.
On September 3, 1783, the final Treaty of Paris is signed in Paris by representatives John Jay, John Adams and Ben Franklin from America and representative David Hartley from Great Britain. Congress ratifies the Treaty of Paris on January 14, 1784 and Parliament ratifies it on April 9, 1784. The final act of the road to peace is a formal exchanging of the signed documents in Paris on May 12, 1784, finally bringing the American Revolution to a close."



=AT2v8Y4_GfFK3oB9l4gYYetMt5eDDSmwvn3oTdyJl4F-nXfxOkXAHi9RxMC_CBeizng82N1iPyt64htFwITfi_p6nfWNGmHuKed83zeeVqMxwh1rWt5pFRRLReeG5LiayPgqU5QhDNUzbWd-27Euxysl4HHFkzxoPHOyAxR0A_WB-ItfEno2ochrhEi6eZftD563BGM99qBujGWeapNnx_jElsjcphH8-Q"]Revolutionary-War-and-Beyond.com (http://"https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2FRevolutionary-War-and-Beyond.com%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR1a3zsnqn7sdp8W04nRSFP7nP4rMepiH2WmxoKBc1_k7sGaFk6qwiwFgUY&h=AT2i5m-Wk1yr4SaOZmJm5_x7T2Nn0R9YCpyRwV27XE1TKXlGHVpslQ-l-BRbjeD04jjN09xJik6FEEQBGlnf5DEU1CCgR5b2e_-LKXZwAC_2rSQihFZHYSEZajcyhG0cIA&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2022, 01:41:34 PM
1935 Eastern Airlines:

(https://i.imgur.com/WUuj2O1.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 08:13:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yvJXnt1.png)

1937, somewhere out west ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 05, 2022, 08:46:37 AM
When I count to 3....we all jump!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 09:00:49 AM
Real Facts That Sound Made Up (ranker.com) (https://www.ranker.com/list/true-facts-that-sound-made-up/setareh-janda?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=weirdnature&pgid=1720062798304165&utm_campaign=true-facts-that-sound-made-up&fbclid=IwAR18yghfjVsO1HkuWMd1VX2at_pZFF7j3u1WdmOeRq1p2BnWOl0wWJUJDZc)

President John Tyler - Born During George Washington's Presidency - Has A Grandson Who Is Still Alive

John Tyler was the 10th President of the United States, holding the nation's highest office between 1841 and 1845. But even though he was born when George Washington was still President and passed decades before the invention of the light bulb, Tyler has grandchildren who lived well into the 21st century.
Tyler had a son - Lyon Gardiner Tyler - when he was around 63 in 1853. Likewise, the younger Tyler fathered children into his 70s (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/07/us/lyon-gardiner-tyler-jr-dead.html). Two of them survived into the 2020s: Lyon Gardiner Tyler Jr. passed in 2020 (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/grandson-10th-president-john-tyler-dies-180975992/); his younger brother Harrison Ruffin Tyler remains the last surviving grandchild of John Tyler as of 2021.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 09:01:23 AM
Cleopatra's Birth Happened Closer To The Digital Age Than To The Completion Of The Great Pyramid At Giza

Ptolemaic ruler Cleopatra VII has the distinction of being Egypt's last pharaoh. At the time of her passing in 30 BCE, Egypt became a province of Rome. 
Even though Cleopatra is one of Egypt's most storied leaders, her life was chronologically closer to today than it was to other icons of the ancient period. The Great Pyramid of Giza, for example, was completed around 2540 BCE (https://www.history.com/news/how-long-did-it-take-to-build-the-great-pyramid). Since Cleopatra lived from around 69 to 30 BCE (https://www.biography.com/royalty/cleopatra-vii), she existed closer in time to the internet age than the Old Kingdoms of her homeland.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 09:02:34 AM
Wyoming Only Has Two Escalators In The Entire State

Escalators are a common sight around the world. Whether you are in a mall, a department store, or an airport, it is difficult to find a large building without a set of escalators for people to travel between different floors. That isn’t the case in the US state of Wyoming. There are only two sets of escalators (https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/07/the-state-of-wyoming-has-2-escalators/277891/) in the entire state, both of them located in banks in the town of Casper. Local government officials believe that the lack of escalators comes from the fact that many of the buildings in Wyoming are older and not suitable whilst stairs and elevators are cheaper to install and maintain.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 09:03:37 AM
The Pyramids Were Built By Paid Workers Not Slaves
(https://imgix.ranker.com/user_node_img/50073/1001454621/original/the-pyramids-were-built-by-paid-workers-not-slaves-photo-u1?auto=format&q=60&fit=crop&fm=pjpg&dpr=2&w=650)
Photo: Ricardo Liberato (http://liberato.org/) / Wikimedia Commons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramids) / CC BY-SA 2.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/deed.en)
The common consensus until very recently was that the pyramids of Egypt were constructed using huge numbers of slaves. How else would the ancient civilization have been able to construct such huge structures? However, those involved in the field of Egyptology have known for decades that the people who built the pyramids (https://www.ranker.com/list/discovery-of-how-pyramids-were-built/nicky-benson) were paid workers, not slaves. This has been proven with recent tomb finds, which show the workers buried honorably (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jan/11/great-pyramid-tombs-slaves-egypt) near the massive buildings with beer and bread to prepare them for the afterlife.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2022, 12:27:00 PM
 However, those involved in the field of Egyptology have known for decades that the people who built the pyramids (https://www.ranker.com/list/discovery-of-how-pyramids-were-built/nicky-benson) were paid workers, not slaves. 
(https://i.imgur.com/5lGkobT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 02:17:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8kbGyE0.png)

Rather famous building 1948-1952, extra credit if you know its name.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 04:10:47 PM


Bikini atoll 1946 test(https://i.imgur.com/twNy4J6.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2022, 04:56:17 PM
48-52 is  WhiteHouse 1600 PA.AVENUE - DC
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 04:58:34 PM
48-52 is  WhiteHouse 1600 PA.AVENUE - DC
Correct, you get a cheroot.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2022, 06:39:44 PM
Is that a cross between a Cherry Cola and a Root Beer?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 11:01:21 AM
The origin of the word "blimp" has been the subject of some confusion. Lennart Ege notes two possible derivations:[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp#cite_note-ege-2)
Quote
Colloquially non-rigid airships always were referred to as 'Blimps'. Over the years several explanations have been advanced about the origin of this word. The most common is that in the military vernacular the Type B was referred to as 'limp bag', which was simply abbreviated to 'blimp'. An alternative explanation is that on 5 December 1915, Commander A. D. Cunningham, R.N. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Navy), of the Capel-Le-Ferne Air Ship Station (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNAS_Capel), flicked the envelope of the airship SS.12 with his fingers during an inspection, which produced a sound that he mimicked and pronounced as 'blimp'; and that the word then caught on as the nickname for all small non-rigid airships.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp#cite_note-Meager,_Captain_George_A.F.C._1970,_p._32-3)
The onomatopoeic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onomatopoeia) derivation, as the sound the airship makes when one taps the envelope (balloon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balloon)) with a finger, has been recorded in the British Aeronautical Journal.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp#cite_note-4)
A 1943 etymology, published in The New York Times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times), supports a British origin during the First World War when the British were experimenting with lighter-than-air craft. The initial non-rigid aircraft was called the A-limp; and a second version called the B-limp was deemed more satisfactory.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp#cite_note-5)
Yet a third derivation is given by Barnes & James in Shorts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Brothers) Aircraft since 1900:
Quote
In February 1915 the need for anti-submarine patrol airships became urgent, and the Submarine Scout (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_class_blimp) type was quickly improvised by hanging an obsolete B.E.2c (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.E.2c) fuselage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuselage) from a spare Willows (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willows_airships) envelope; this was done by the R.N.A.S. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Naval_Air_Service) at Kingsnorth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNAS_Kingsnorth), and on seeing the result for the first time, Horace Short (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Brothers), already noted for his very apt and original vocabulary, named it "Blimp", adding, "What else would you call it?"[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBarnesJames198913-6)
Dr. A. D. Topping researched the origins of the word and concluded that the British had never had a "Type B, limp" designation, and that Cunningham's coinage appeared to be the correct explanation.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp#cite_note-7)
The Oxford English Dictionary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_English_Dictionary) notes its use in print in 1916: "Visited the Blimps..this afternoon at Capel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNAS_Capel)". In 1918, the Illustrated London News (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illustrated_London_News) said it was "an onomatopœic name invented by that genius for apposite nomenclature, the late Horace Short."[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp#cite_note-8)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2022, 12:14:19 PM
1935 Eastern Airlines:

(https://i.imgur.com/WUuj2O1.png)
can't be accurate
no cigarette smoke
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 06, 2022, 01:04:18 PM
can't be accurate
no cigarette smoke
I was thinking the exact same thing

maybe it wasnt allowed or just not photogenic 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
My first thought as well.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 01:12:24 PM
No doubt a staged photo.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2022, 01:15:20 PM
As late as the mid 90s on my earliest transatlantic flights they still had smoking sections on commercial flights.  So gross.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 01:32:24 PM
Yup, hard to believe.  My first trip on an airliner was in 1980, flying was really expensive back then.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 06, 2022, 01:34:48 PM
Yup, hard to believe.  My first trip on an airliner was in 1980, flying was really expensive back then.
My first trip was on a 707 in 1967
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2022, 01:35:14 PM
photoshopped
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2022, 01:36:16 PM
mine was in 76 - bicentennial school trip to Washington DC

parents had not been on a plane at that time

couldn't afford it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 06, 2022, 01:45:20 PM
We had one family vacation via plane when I was 10 in 1988... It was the only time I had been on a plane until I started interviewing for jobs my final semester at Purdue. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 06, 2022, 02:15:39 PM
can't be accurate
no cigarette smoke
I was thinking the exact same thing

maybe it wasnt allowed or just not photogenic
My first thought as well.
I was looking for DB Cooper and the aft stair well
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 06, 2022, 02:37:49 PM
I was looking for DB Cooper and the aft stair well
need a 727 for that
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 04:06:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/s6X1qCj.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 10:16:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/59ST8VE.jpg)

I vaguely recall when the first one opened in Augusta when I was a kid, a 1961 D penny got you a burger.

They might serve well over a million now per day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 10:19:11 AM
[img width=500 height=332.992]https://i.imgur.com/59ST8VE.jpg[/img]

I vaguely recall when the first one opened in Augusta when I was a kid, a 1961 D penny got you a burger.

They might serve well over a million now per day.

Yeah with ~39,000 locations worldwide, they'd only need to serve 26 customers per location to reach 1,000,000 in a day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 11:15:00 AM
Lightning Lap 2022: The Hottest Cars on America's Toughest Track (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38955362/lightning-lap-2022/?utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR3KN39jGUsWZs0EGAGYK96WdPsSFH72USiiFHsCJ-dENEY34uAhL8VwFHo)

Performance cars (and SUVs) put in bravura performances at Virginia International Raceway—this year including the BMW M3, Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing, Mercedes-AMG GT, Subaru BRZ, and many more.

(https://i.imgur.com/IMP4Vss.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 12:02:04 PM
When Alexander the Great died, his empire was divided up by his generals. Ptolemy claimed Egypt and began building a monumental lighthouse at the entrance to Alexandria’s harbor. The structure was completed by his son Ptolemy II circa 250 B.C. It stood more than 100 meters tall. At night, a fire burning atop the tower was visible to ships far out at sea. A mirror guided vessels during the day. Although not built by Romans, it served as an inspiration for Roman mariners and rulers for centuries. The Pharos of Alexandria was repeatedly damaged by earthquakes until the last remains collapsed in A.D. 1480. [color=var(--blue-link)]www.chi-rhogroup.com (http://www.chi-rhogroup.com/?fbclid=IwAR3mqzI4qtecEmv1AH4ZRMZ3DrlpiOze89Lft7YxGAk-RGy1EJc1LMvpvwI)[/url][/font][/size][/color] 

(https://i.imgur.com/ANbLBTK.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 07, 2022, 12:22:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/s6X1qCj.png)
I've seen this referenced before and it sure is interesting.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2022, 06:21:29 PM
Stalin & Hitler within what 10 miles or less of each other? Talk about a portal to hell
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2022, 06:35:26 PM
too bad they didn't randomly bump into each other and kill each other
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 07:04:56 PM
How a Regional Conflict Escalated Into World War I - HISTORY (https://www.history.com/news/regional-conflict-world-war-i-beginning?cmpid=email-hist-inside-history-2022-0207-02072022&om_rid&~campaign=hist-inside-history-2022-0207&fbclid=IwAR3W_NJyyuLLQhcscIpKvkhAyKJ3EiGZ-1PR8QUSmM_9Gs7o55t9mi7gGo4)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 07, 2022, 10:06:58 PM
Lightning Lap 2022: The Hottest Cars on America's Toughest Track (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38955362/lightning-lap-2022/?utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR3KN39jGUsWZs0EGAGYK96WdPsSFH72USiiFHsCJ-dENEY34uAhL8VwFHo)

Performance cars (and SUVs) put in bravura performances at Virginia International Raceway—this year including the BMW M3, Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing, Mercedes-AMG GT, Subaru BRZ, and many more.

(https://i.imgur.com/IMP4Vss.png)
Great stuff.  Some amazing performance across the different price categories. 

It is still shocking how the SUVs perform now- easily outperforming most cars in speed and cornering. 

I am a bit surprised they used the x4m competition as the X3M Competition has the same motor ( as well as the M3xdrive competition) and has performed better than the X4M in most tests. In fact, it has performed closer to the sedan (M3X drive). 

I own the 22 X3M competition as well as RSQ8 in this test ( although mine is modified to add over 125 Hp, so it has more than the URUS)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 04:12:34 AM
I don't think an SUV will outperform a car in its price range and type.  The performance SUVs are indeed remarkable, and expensive.  I imagine the vast majority if SUV owners never go off road, never tow anything, and drive it like their Aunt Fannie drove a 1965 Chevy wagon.

These tests, for me, are fun to read about, but few owners track their cars or are able to drive them at 9/10ths.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 05:23:43 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/kv2To5F.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 06:46:32 AM
I don't think an SUV will outperform a car in its price range and type.  The performance SUVs are indeed remarkable, and expensive.  I imagine the vast majority if SUV owners never go off road, never tow anything, and drive it like their Aunt Fannie drove a 1965 Chevy wagon.

These tests, for me, are fun to read about, but few owners track their cars or are able to drive them at 9/10ths.


If you read the article and looked at the times, you will see that the performance SUVs DO outperform most cars in their price range. 

for example- an X3M will substantially outperform most cars in that price range.  Just not performance cars- but most aren’t performance cars.

yes a lot of people that buy them don’t take them off road but that’s not why they bought them. they bought them because they want to be able to take large cargo, like golf clubs, dogs, family yet not sacrifice incredible speed and cornering. And many of the owners do take them to both the road track and the dragstrip. I am on forums with many of these owners and it is very common.  And they also tow with them. My Audi SUV can tow my 25 foot boat with ease and I do move it using my Audi. 

because SUVs have become by far the most popular segment, many of the car makers have focused the majority of their R&D on them. Again, if you look at the 0 to 60 times, the quarter-mile times, and the track times at places like VIOR, as well as the G forces these cars can achieve you will see that the modern high performance SUVs are doing incredible things and are way better on the track than 95% of the cars out there. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 08:19:49 AM
That is why I said "price range and type".  I'm sure they outrun a luxury car, a Lexus or something, but compare a BMW X sedan vs SUV in the same price range.

Most SUVs I see around town are glorified station wagons that sit higher up and get poor fuel economy.  If you drive one like you would a minivan, just get a minivan.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on February 08, 2022, 09:13:22 AM
Lots of historical love between Russia and Ukraine.  In 1932-33 Stalin intentionally created a famine in Ukraine where 5 million starved to death. The rather impressive body count was only outdone by Hitler in Ukraine in coming years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 09:18:20 AM
My guess is a fair number in Ukraine view themselves as Russians, particularly in the border areas.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 10:12:58 AM
That is why I said "price range and type".  I'm sure they outrun a luxury car, a Lexus or something, but compare a BMW X sedan vs SUV in the same price range.

Most SUVs I see around town are glorified station wagons that sit higher up and get poor fuel economy.  If you drive one like you would a minivan, just get a minivan.
Well your right about “ most SUVs”

have you owned or driven an SUV that can run a sub 3.5 0-60, a sub 12 second 1/4 mile, or pull .97 Gs on the skid pad? 

If not- you should give it a whirl.  Will blow your mind what a high performance SUV is capable of- while still being a family hauler, grocery getter or cross country travel machine.  It’s not like the old days. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2022, 10:13:38 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s640x640/272760293_2246050088871556_1722703087585270412_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=WWHYS71ABCsAX8PStFI&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_eW3CpqGEZNE30TlHkB-J_M7Kffmnjug9itDvuAof0Gg&oe=6208387F)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 08, 2022, 10:20:42 AM
My guess is a fair number in Ukraine view themselves as Russians, particularly in the border areas.
Got a friend who is Ukranian and the GPs came over back in the day and they ran a meat/butcher shop.If you've never had twice smoked Kovbasa I think it is,get it - cloges the arteries up while you're eating it but soooo good. Buddy's family would take turns with you for making statements like that
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 10:39:34 AM
My guess is a fair number in Ukraine view themselves as Russians, particularly in the border areas.
There are a lot more who are tired of being slaughtered by Russians, so my guess is that Ukraine will strive to maintain its independence regardless of whether or not we feel they deserve to do so.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 08, 2022, 10:46:44 AM
"Most SUVs" aren't even SUVs. 

They're tall cars. Or, "crossovers", in the current lexicon. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2022, 10:49:13 AM
glorified minivans
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 11:02:04 AM
glorified minivans
True. But we are not talking about the 98% of SUVs.

We are talking about this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ANbhV6j05ys

A car I own( mine has an additional 100+ HP).  I hauled myself and 3 buds around, and 4 sets of clubs in it comfortably 2 weekends ago. But it can do this ( video).  Few cars, that are not in the “ exotic/ outrageous price” category can even come close. These are true, high performance SUVs   

In fact- they are far more capable then most drivers can come close to handling. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 11:24:12 AM
True. But we are not talking about the 98% of SUVs.

We are talking about this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ANbhV6j05ys

A car I own( mine has an additional 100+ HP).  I hauled myself and 3 buds around, and 4 sets of clubs in it comfortably 2 weekends ago. But it can do this ( video).  Few cars, that are not in the “ exotic/ outrageous price” category can even come close. These are true, high performance SUVs   

In fact- they are far more capable then most drivers can come close to handling. 
Where do I find something like this for the GLE 63? That's what we are honed in on.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 11:33:15 AM
https://autoadvert.eu/video/642023708-mercedes-gle-63-amg-track-one-take

Here you go.  Badass car!!!  Not sure if your going for AMG edition. 

Nobody in their right mind will call you a overhyped minivan lol. I drove this car and it is so sick!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 11:34:59 AM
Definitely AMG. Thanks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 11:36:44 AM
You want an AMG?  Here's an AMG:

(https://i.imgur.com/q1JDk2S.jpg)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 11:42:00 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YVGWBL7gdEM

Another.  Normal roads.  Listen to that Bi-turbo.   Damn!!

If and when you get one of these I definitely want some pics and videos
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2022, 12:30:44 PM
In fact- they are far more capable then most drivers can come close to handling. 
most drivers can't push this thing to it's limit

(https://consumerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/94103331991106.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 12:33:58 PM
I definitely pushed THIS to its limit:

(https://i.imgur.com/WYGzh7t.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 12:34:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MYjioDw.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2022, 12:49:08 PM
I definitely pushed THIS to its limit:

(https://i.imgur.com/WYGzh7t.png)

you're better than most
most would pee themselves pushing that to the limit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 12:56:14 PM
Its limit was about 65 so no pee necessary.  It did wobble and shake a lot....

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 01:38:14 PM
I used to pass kids on fancy 18 speed bikes pedaling slow in one gear, they apparently had no clue how to shift.

Now I see folks in Beemers driving like they would a Malibu.  Granted, I don't drive my GTI crazy all the time either.

A few years back, BMW in Cincy had some gig where you could drive any of about 7 cars lined up,  one was an X5 with the V8, it certainly was fast,  They call it a "Sports Activity Vehicle" and I'd bet 90% of owners drive it like they would a regular SUV with the occasional spurt off the line.

I'm more of an M2 kind of guy anyway.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 08, 2022, 02:02:51 PM
you're better than most
most would pee themselves pushing that to the limit
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow...

You learn a LOT more about what it means to drive at the limits of traction if you have relatively low limits. Everything happens slowly and you learn how to stay at the edge and have time to recover when you push it a little too much. If you're driving a supercar and exceed its limits, well, hope you have a good life insurance policy. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:08:03 PM
After we went in a little hot and missed the turn-in point, the CT4-V Blackwing (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct4-v-blackwing) went into a lurid slide down the hill that ended in the grass, where a beefy right-front suspension member folded like a taco. The damage was more than the Cadillac engineers on site could rectify. So a call was made to GM headquarters, and a replacement CT4-V Blackwing was on a truck headed for Alton within a few hours.

I'm sure these drivers are really good, and they bent this car.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 08, 2022, 02:11:32 PM
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow...

You learn a LOT more about what it means to drive at the limits of traction if you have relatively low limits. Everything happens slowly and you learn how to stay at the edge and have time to recover when you push it a little too much. If you're driving a supercar and exceed its limits, well, hope you have a good life insurance policy.
My brother learned a similar concept in a Fiero he owns.  As a mid-engine car the Fiero has very good weight balance so it is very good on a curve (like an on-ramp, for example) but the problem is that if you DO start to lose it, it is VERY difficult to recover.  My Z28 is obviously way out of balance so you see a lot of oversteer if you push it but it is easy to get it back by simply letting off the gas.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:31:17 PM
Porsche 911 used to be really bad with this, once you lost them the tail would come around and you were done, over steer.  American cars were designed to plow if you got too hot in a corner.  I read the new Corvette has a lot of stability control on it to try and keep this from biting unwary drivers.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 08, 2022, 02:35:09 PM
Porsche 911 used to be really bad with this, once you lost them the tail would come around and you were done, over steer.  American cars were designed to plow if you got too hot in a corner.  I read the new Corvette has a lot of stability control on it to try and keep this from biting unwary drivers.
I wondered about that particularly for a brand like Corvette that has been around for almost 70 years and has very high brand loyalty.  Basically every Corvette after the initial goofy I6 version in 1953 and 1954 up until this new mid-engined beast has had a similar weight balance/oversteer issue as my Z28.  Now all of a sudden guys who may have been driving Corvettes for a REALLY long time aren't going to have that "warning" anymore.  They'll be able to go a lot further before they have an issue, but once the issue starts they will not be able to just let off the gas to correct it anymore.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:40:59 PM
2020 Audi RS Q8 at Lightning Lap 2022 (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38965998/2020-audi-rs-q8-lightning-lap/?utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0rELEOleZVmoX8_5NUm25oUZQLCn1LNmHfRZA1EgUpPv-nTItIKakqbYM)


Class: LL3 | Base: $123,695 | As Tested: $138,340
Power and Weight:
591 hp • 5489 lb • 9.3 lb/hp
Tires:
Continental SportContact 6, 295/35ZR-23 (108Y) AO

No one gets excited about SUVs at Lightning Lap. They're too heavy, too tall, too big, too powerful for their own good. But there is real joy in seeing an elephant run free and then try to stop, probably.

On the back of a 591-hp version of the same twin-turbo 4.0-liter V-8 found in the Porsche Cayenne and Lamborghini Urus, Audi's 5489-pound RS Q8 (https://www.caranddriver.com/audi/rs-q8), the heaviest vehicle we've ever lapped, charged its way up to 144.1 mph on the front straight.

Admittedly, it is exciting to reel in the energy of an RS Q8 barreling toward Turn 1. The 17.3-inch carbon-ceramic rotors clamped by 10-piston calipers are the right hardware for the task. They're strong, although the brake pedal sinks deep enough to make you wonder whether this pachyderm will trample the tire wall. The mass and speed do overwork and then overheat the initially grippy Continental SportContact 6 rubber. But before these impressive tires get too hot, they put down a strong 1.00 g in Turn 1.


Once you get used to lapping VIR in what feels like an RS7 converted to standing-desk height, there's nothing threatening about the RS Q8's handling. Curbs are swallowed whole, the steering is truthful, and the understeer is predictable and easy to manage. Executing the perfect lap is tough in any car, and even though we're chasing just one hot lap, the course's 4.1-mile length means that it is necessary to think about the ever-degrading tires and brake temps. Push even a little too hard and you'll pay for it later in the lap, when the front tires chatter with understeer or the brakes require you to get on them earlier. As much as we tried, we couldn't get the RS Q8 under the 3:00 mark, but that time is still quicker than the sit-down RS7 that lapped here in 2014.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:43:40 PM
2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing at Lightning Lap 2022 (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38966030/2022-cadillac-ct4-v-blackwing-lightning-lap/)

Lap Time: 2:55.6
Class: LL3 | Base: $67,515 | As Tested: $78,985
Power and Weight:
 472 hp • 3902 lb • 8.3 lb/hp
Tires:
 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, F: 255/35ZR-18 (94Y) TPC R: 275/35ZR-18 (99Y) TPC

They say that when you summit a mountain, the journey is only halfway over. Reach the crest of the Climbing Esses and what follows is a blind left-hander with existential repercussions. Overdo it by a mere 0.1 mph and a very bad ending becomes a very real possibility.

After we went in a little hot and missed the turn-in point, the CT4-V Blackwing (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct4-v-blackwing) went into a lurid slide down the hill that ended in the grass, where a beefy right-front suspension member folded like a taco. The damage was more than the Cadillac engineers on site could rectify. So a call was made to GM headquarters, and a replacement CT4-V Blackwing was on a truck headed for Alton within a few hours.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 03:05:50 PM
Pace and Space

Despite its bulk, the 5568-pound GLE63 S thunders out of corners with authority, thanks to a standard limited-slip rear differential and a rear-biased all-wheel-drive system that never sends more than half the engine's torque to the front wheels. At the test track, our test car needed just 3.4 seconds to reach 60 mph and it blitzed the quarter-mile in 11.9 seconds at 117 mph, making it one of the quickest mid-sized high-performance SUVs (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g26339934/most-powerful-suvs/) we've evaluated. Compared to the last GLE63 S we tested (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15102008/2016-mercedes-amg-gle63-s-4matic-test-review/), which weighed 253 pounds less, the new model is 0.3-second quicker to 60 and 0.2-second and 2 mph quicker through the quarter. The new AMG's acceleration figures also just edge out those of the latest 541-hp Porsche Cayenne Turbo (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a28652553/2019-porsche-cayenne-turbo-by-the-numbers/), although the 670-hp Cayenne Turbo S E-Hybrid (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a28682139/2020-porsche-cayenne-turbo-s-e-hybrid-drive/) beats it by a couple of tenths to 60 mph and stomps it down the quarter-mile by nearly a half-second and 4 mph. We've yet to test the updated 2020 BMW X5 M (https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/x5-m), which can pack up to 617 horsepower in Competition trim, but we expect it to make similar performance gains as the AMG and hew closely to the GLE63 S's times. We smell a comparison test brewing.



(https://i.imgur.com/y0zVCw8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 08, 2022, 03:08:56 PM
Yeah, but not a single one of those "SUVs" have a third row seat anywhere near as comfortable as the Ford Flex, and their rear seat is probably nowhere near as roomy and spacious my second row. 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 03:14:34 PM
I read every one of those fast lap write ups.  And watched every one of those POV vids from drivers seat.  

All great cars- super enjoyable in their own right.  

Don’t be fooled by the RSQ8 time- it FAST!  3:02 around VIR- are you kidding me! 

Of course the Blackwing Ct4 was faster.  The BMW M3 Competition 
Was faster than the CT4. 

But a professional or very skilled driver would beat us like a drum in the SUV even if we were in the Blackwing. And I would guess I would beat 95% of drivers in my Audi SUV around that track even the other driver was in the Blackwing 

In the Audi or BMW high-performance SUV I can kind of have my cake and eat it too.

If I just want to drive a performance car that’s even faster than my SUVs around a track I just take my other car.

https://streamable.com/k28dug
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 03:21:22 PM
Yeah, but not a single one of those "SUVs" have a third row seat anywhere near as comfortable as the Ford Flex, and their rear seat is probably nowhere near as roomy and spacious my second row.


Ha!  True.  I had that brand new hellcat Durango which had a beautiful third seat in it. And I love that thing it was crazy fast and decent handling as well. But right after I got it gas prices soared and that thing only got 10 or 11 miles to the gallon. So with 6000 miles on it I sold it for exactly what I paid for it brand new.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 03:22:35 PM
Pace and Space

Despite its bulk, the 5568-pound GLE63 S thunders out of corners with authority, thanks to a standard limited-slip rear differential and a rear-biased all-wheel-drive system that never sends more than half the engine's torque to the front wheels. At the test track, our test car needed just 3.4 seconds to reach 60 mph and it blitzed the quarter-mile in 11.9 seconds at 117 mph, making it one of the quickest mid-sized high-performance SUVs (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g26339934/most-powerful-suvs/) we've evaluated. Compared to the last GLE63 S we tested (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15102008/2016-mercedes-amg-gle63-s-4matic-test-review/), which weighed 253 pounds less, the new model is 0.3-second quicker to 60 and 0.2-second and 2 mph quicker through the quarter. The new AMG's acceleration figures also just edge out those of the latest 541-hp Porsche Cayenne Turbo (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a28652553/2019-porsche-cayenne-turbo-by-the-numbers/), although the 670-hp Cayenne Turbo S E-Hybrid (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a28682139/2020-porsche-cayenne-turbo-s-e-hybrid-drive/) beats it by a couple of tenths to 60 mph and stomps it down the quarter-mile by nearly a half-second and 4 mph. We've yet to test the updated 2020 BMW X5 M (https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/x5-m), which can pack up to 617 horsepower in Competition trim, but we expect it to make similar performance gains as the AMG and hew closely to the GLE63 S's times. We smell a comparison test brewing.



(https://i.imgur.com/y0zVCw8.png)
🤤🤤
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 07:00:51 PM
On This Day in History > February 8, 1778:
Daniel Boone is captured by a British/Shawnee war party

"On February 8, 1778, Daniel Boone is captured by a British/Shawnee war party. Boone had forged a trail across the Cumberland Gap several years earlier and settled Fort Boonesborough, one of only three settlements at the time in what is now Kentucky.
In the winter of 1777-78, Boonesborough ran out of its vital salt supply. No supplies would come until spring, so the only way to get salt was by boiling water from a salt spring. The settlers decided they had to do this, in spite of the fact that sending out a large party of men to the nearest spring would leave the fort vulnerable to attack.
30 men set out for Blue Licks, which was about 60 miles away, where they gathered salt for several weeks. On February 8, Boone was out hunting when he was captured by a group of Indians. He discovered that over 100 Shawnee were on their way to attack Boonesborough, accompanied by two aides to the British Governor of Detroit. This was a British backed attack.
Boone knew the fort couldn't stand, so he played nice and told them that if his men were allowed to surrender peacefully and accompany them back to Detroit, in the spring Boone would lead an expedition back to Boonesborough where he would persuade the settlers to declare allegiance to King George. Chief Blackfish, the Shawnee leader, agreed to this, not knowing that Boone was lying and trying to save the lives of his men and those back at the fort.
Boone persuaded the men to give themselves up, convincing them it was the only way to save their families. The Indians did not harm them, but did force them to "run the gauntlet," a form of punishment in which the prisoners were made to run through two lines of Indians who would strike them as hard as they could. The prisoners stayed with the Indians for months, pretending to be friendly, but hoping to escape all along. Boone was even adopted into the tribe as a son of Chief Blackfish.
Back at the fort, word arrived that the men had been captured. After several months of hearing nothing, they were given up for dead. Rebecca Boone, Daniel's wife, and her children moved back to North Carolina with many of the others. Meanwhile, one of the other captured men escaped and returned to the fort. He convinced them that Boone was collaborating with the British.
In June, the Shawnee decided to take revenge on Boonesborough for a failed attempt to capture Donelly's Fort. Boone escaped to warn them, traveling 160 miles across the wilderness in 4 days. He was held in suspicion at first because the settlers believed he had colluded with the British, but he was able to convince them a war party was coming.
The Great Siege of Boonesborough began on September 8 and lasted 12 days. Though the Indians made numerous attempts, they were unable to penetrate its defenses and finally gave up the attack. Daniel Boone was charged with aiding the British for his ruse, but after a court-martial examined the evidence, he was commended for his handling of the crisis, promoted to major in the Virginia militia and soon reunited with his family in North Carolina."
=AT3AmNNv9oxY2Vcr6XrslzWXcMhoPGZ-52UfZZxsWE8Nik4wXFpt7CmkTPM-5Y0scnbiz9vdrA2XzOzwmSiT_NifQHNE75XovCP6_LcYn5htBkTZx6-tlkD9NdOMtM2Dhf6E2h-JEZYIyBWPy1wAr8X1wmVt_NpYvH8nbS8quqscUdVavxyiXWnmZDy6jpFO_F3ZVlT9ZNdzaujwKnC_3wlnbyKFJS51"][color=var(--blue-link)]Revolutionary-War-and-Beyond.com (http://"https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2FRevolutionary-War-and-Beyond.com%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0PdtKRmTS67uQWOROyrllnJDvt5dZAnNg6ucRdT1-arSCePojBBon3AO0&h=AT0hEakAKqa1ZVUO2MqrKPl4t6e2UTxK5U3FElL0Qt3aQx7_HKhnIjMn4ScziUAR1YHqLddLC0FiOswQFcTpeMx8Q8AfJSvvE8UNXLUvTRqVtcgcJVS6yuUiURPHHu9OTA&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0)
[/url][/font][/font][/size][/color]

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 07:23:55 PM
A Day in Your Life 2037: A Glimpse at the Automotive Near Future (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/features/day-in-life-2037-glimpse-into-automotive-future/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2Glnqphs6E1zSavU_K82DmLvcVNESVhgDuw0zBM5ukNtVgAL6B4hq0yOU)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 07:56:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/WMOttgn.jpg)

Any guesses?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 09, 2022, 08:44:49 AM
Yes I just finished reading Winston's War about a month ago,That looks to be taken even before Gallipoli.Talk about wrecking a perfectly good body.Winnie was way ahead of Kieth & Mick
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 08:59:48 AM
1895
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 12:29:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/dul8BFz.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 12:42:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/WgOXCXf.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 03:05:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/fei3Bx4.png)

Within five years, Britain and Belgium would be at war with Germany and Bulgaria. Only five of the nine monarchies represented in the photo still exist today.

Standing, from left to right: King Haakon VII of Norway, Tsar Ferdinand of the Bulgarians, King Manuel II of Portugal and the Algarve, Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany and Prussia, King George I of the Hellenes and King Albert I of the Belgians.
Seated, from left to right: King Alfonso XIII of Spain, King George V of the United Kingdom, and King Frederick VIII of Denmark.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2022, 02:46:02 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/rIOPBKR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 09:28:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/6CzDPKr.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 09:30:15 AM
Unification of German States - Countries - Office of the Historian (https://history.state.gov/countries/issues/german-unification)

The first war of German unification was the 1862 Danish War, begun over the duchies of Schleswig and Holstein. Bismarck allied with Austria to fight the Danes in a war to protect the interests of Holstein, a member of the German Confederation.

The second war of German unification was the 1866 Austro-Prussian War, which settled the question of “smaller” versus “greater” Germany. This brief war (fought over the course of mere weeks) pitted Prussia and her allies against Austria and other German states. Prussia won and directly annexed some of the German states that had sided with Austria (such as Hanover and Nassau). In an act of leniency, Prussia allowed some of the larger Austrian allies to maintain their independence, such as Baden and Bavaria. In 1867 Bismarck created the North German Confederation, a union of the northern German states under the hegemony of Prussia. Several other German states joined, and the North German Confederation served as a model for the future German Empire.

The third and final act of German unification was the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-71, orchestrated by Bismarck to draw the western German states into alliance with the North German Confederation. With the French defeat, the German Empire was proclaimed in January 1871 in the Palace at Versailles, France. From this point forward, foreign policy of the German Empire was made in Berlin, with the German Kaiser (who was also the King of Prussia) accrediting ambassadors of foreign nations. Relations were severed when the U.S. declared war upon Imperial Germany in 1917.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2022, 09:38:40 AM
It's very interesting to me how the map of Europe has changed over the years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 09:41:42 AM
Animation: How the European Map Has Changed Over 2,400 Years (visualcapitalist.com) (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/2400-years-of-european-history/)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 11:17:48 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/YhH8Fit.png)

Tenzing Norgay and Edmund Hillary drinking tea after their successful ascent of Mt. Everest in 1953.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 11:48:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/L7SYiSF.png)

An aerial view of various aircraft lining the flight decks of the U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USS USS Independence (CV-62), top, and USS Midway (CV-41) moored beside each other at Naval Station Pearl Harbor, Hawaii (USA), on 23 August 1991. Midway was en route from Naval Station, Yokosuka, Japan, to Naval Air Station North Island, California (USA), where it was decommissioned on 11 April 1992. Independence travelled to Yokosuka to take over as the U.S. Navy's forward-based aircraft carrier.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 11:51:32 AM


(https://i.imgur.com/jqmZ0ez.png)

An Unlikely Friendship: Jesse Owens (Gold medal winning American track star) and Lutz Long (German Olympian, Nazi soldier)
History is messy. Looking back it is easy to judge and dismiss individuals based on labels and affiliations. You’d probably be surprised to find that a German track star at the Berlin Olympics became friends with African American track star Jesse Owens despite the presence of angry, racist leader Adolf Hitler at the games.
Long publicly embraced Owens while American President Franklin D. Roosevelt didn’t send him a congratulatory telegram after his impressive wins.
Excerpt:
“It took a lot of courage for him to befriend me in front of Hitler,” Owens later said in an interview. “You can melt down all the medals and cups I have and they wouldn’t be a plating on the 24-karat friendship I felt for Lutz Long at that moment. Hitler must have gone crazy watching us embrace.”
After besting Long and taking home gold in the long jump, Owens was famously photographed saluting the American flag. Long stood behind him, offering the Nazi salute.
The two remained friends, keeping in contact as much of world plunged into war. Long was stationed with the German Army in North Africa before being killed in action on July 14, 1943, during the Allied invasion of Sicily. In his last letter to Owens, Long, seemingly aware of his impending fate wrote, “My heart tells me, if I be honest with you, that this is the last letter I shall ever write. If it is so, I ask you something. It is a something so very important to me. It is you go to Germany when this war done, someday find my Karl [Kai], and tell him about his father. Tell him, Jesse, what times were like when we not separated by war. I am saying—tell him how things can be between men on this earth.”
In 1951 Owens traveled to Germany to meet Long’s then 10-year-old son, Kai, fulfilling his promise to indeed tell the young boy how things could be. Owens eventually served as best man at Kai’s wedding, and the two families remain in contact to this day.”
Read the letter in the article. It is powerful. They were men of their times but didn’t let that keep them from being friends. If they could figure it out, we should be able to do the same.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 11, 2022, 12:26:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/L7SYiSF.png)

An aerial view of various aircraft lining the flight decks of the U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USS USS Independence (CV-62), top, and USS Midway (CV-41) moored beside each other at Naval Station Pearl Harbor, Hawaii (USA), on 23 August 1991. Midway was en route from Naval Station, Yokosuka, Japan, to Naval Air Station North Island, California (USA), where it was decommissioned on 11 April 1992. Independence travelled to Yokosuka to take over as the U.S. Navy's forward-based aircraft carrier.
The Midway and her sisters (Franklin D. Roosevelt and Coral Sea) were improvements on the WWII Essex Class Carriers.  The US planned 32 Essex Class carriers and completed a staggering 24 during and shortly after WWII.  The US planned six Midway Class Carriers and began construction on the three that were actually built in 1943 and 1944.  After that it became obvious that the US had more than enough carriers to defeat Japan so the others were cancelled before the war ended.  None of the Midways were commissioned in time to see service in WWII with Midway and FDR commissioned in 1945 just after the Japanese surrender and Coral Sea commissioned in 1947.  The Midways were substantially larger than the Essex Class:

A family friend in town was what the Navy calls a "Plank Owner" on the USS Midway.  He graduated from HS in 1945 just after the German Surrender and joined the Navy because he wanted to get involved and the war with Japan was mostly a Naval War.  When the war ended three months after he graduated from HS he was training as a tail-gunner in a torpedo plane and when he finished that he was posted to the first squadron of torpedo planes assigned to the brand new USS Midway (commissioned September 10, 1945).  Plank Owners are original crewmembers of a ship.  

Anyway, Roosevelt and Coral Sea were scrapped decades ago but Midway is now a Museum at San Diego.  Someday I'd like to visit.  It is the only Carrier-Museum Ship that is not an Essex Class (CV10 Yorktown at Charleston, CV11 Intrepid at NYC, CV12 Hornet at Alameda, CV16 Lexington at Corpus Christi)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 12:30:49 PM
I visited the Midway in SD with my two kids, it was pretty interesting.  The angled flight deck was a huge innovation (British) and the Midway was retro fitted to have it.

(https://i.imgur.com/K3HzCif.png)

Photo taken just after commissioning.

On 28 June 1955, the ship sailed for Puget Sound Naval Shipyard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puget_Sound_Naval_Shipyard), where Midway underwent an extensive modernization program (SCB-110 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_Characteristics_Board), similar to SCB-125 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCB-125) for the Essex-class carriers). Midway received an enclosed hurricane bow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_aircraft_carrier#Hurricane_bow), an aft deck-edge elevator, an angled flight deck (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_deck#Angled_flight_deck), and steam catapults, before finally returning to service on 30 September 1957.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Midway_(CV-41)#cite_note-tbg-3)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 11, 2022, 12:33:18 PM
I visited the Midway in SD with my two kids, it was pretty interesting.  The angled flight deck was a huge innovation (British) and the Midway was retro fitted to have it.

(https://i.imgur.com/K3HzCif.png)

Photo taken just after commissioning.

On 28 June 1955, the ship sailed for Puget Sound Naval Shipyard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puget_Sound_Naval_Shipyard), where Midway underwent an extensive modernization program (SCB-110 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_Characteristics_Board), similar to SCB-125 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCB-125) for the Essex-class carriers). Midway received an enclosed hurricane bow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_aircraft_carrier#Hurricane_bow), an aft deck-edge elevator, an angled flight deck (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_deck#Angled_flight_deck), and steam catapults, before finally returning to service on 30 September 1957.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Midway_(CV-41)#cite_note-tbg-3)
I should have mentioned in my earlier post that the Midways were the last class of US Carrier to be designed and built without an angled deck.  All three had angled decks retrofitted onto them (as did many of the Essex Class) but it was a retrofit as opposed to a part of the original design as on all subsequent US Carriers.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 12:40:59 PM
All subsequent fleet carriers, yes, not all US carriers, the LHA class at least looks like a carrier and can operate the F35.

(https://i.imgur.com/ToVlBsz.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 01:09:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/euLw44q.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 11, 2022, 01:23:18 PM
All subsequent fleet carriers, yes, not all US carriers, the LHA class at least looks like a carrier and can operate the F35.

(https://i.imgur.com/ToVlBsz.jpg)
My brother shipped out on an LHA-class, the LHA-3 USS Belleau Wood (since decommissioned) back in the early 2000s when he was flying the CH-53E. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 11, 2022, 01:39:54 PM
All subsequent fleet carriers, yes, not all US carriers, the LHA class at least looks like a carrier and can operate the F35.
My brother shipped out on an LHA-class, the LHA-3 USS Belleau Wood (since decommissioned) back in the early 2000s when he was flying the CH-53E.
Thank your brother for his service.  

Those ships are an interesting sort-of hybrid. By WWII standards they'd be considered gigantic and obviously fleet carriers but compared to the Nimitz and Ford Classes they are quite small and operate as landing/amphibious support ships.  The aircraft they carry are designed to land troops and provide ground support.  That is obviously an important role but it is not the same role that the Nimitz and Ford Class ships fill.  Those ships are primarily tasked with providing air supremacy wherever they go.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 01:49:40 PM
An LHA class can carry around 20 F35, but without catapults they can't launch full load.  There is continuing debate about building more of smaller carriers in the Navy, something around 70,000 tons, nuclear powered with one reactor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 03:10:28 PM
Work starts on environmentally ‘catastrophic’ Triangle Tower in Paris | Skyscrapers | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2022/feb/10/building-starts-on-catastrophic-triangle-tower-in-paris?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0gX3HeNg_Y6pybkK6rM1UAQ1jF7t69aq1qLXMOHRBbLCpwU274EQlHXUc#Echobox=1644505383)

(https://i.imgur.com/u7HZ05F.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2022, 04:45:13 AM
167 years ago today in 1855, Russian soldiers have now been under siege for over 3 months in the city of Sevastopol on the Crimean Peninsula.
During the 19th century, one of the older superpowers of the world, the Ottoman Empire, began to fall apart. First in the 1820’s with the Greek Revolution and European powers intervening to liberate the Greek Isles that had been occupied for centuries. Then the backbone to Ottoman military power, the Janissaries Corps, was crushed and forced to disband after an uprising in 1826. Russia would then go to war and decisively defeat the Ottomans in 1829. But they chose to keep the frail empire alive, to not draw the ire of other European powers. Then in 1831, Egypt under the famous Muhammad Ali Pasha successfully went to war with the Ottomans for more territory.
Further adding instability in the Ottoman region, tensions between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches began to build amongst the European nations as both disputed their rights of pilgrimage to holy sites in Jerusalem.  The Russian government promoted the Eastern Orthodox, and the French government was the main advocate for Roman Catholics. Czar Nicholas of Russia did not want to go to war with any Christians and continually advocated for the partition of the Ottoman Empire for decades, but it fell on death ears. Britain and France put aside their bloody past and continued to diplomatically prevent the large Russian Empire from gaining territory at Ottoman expense.
In 1852, Czar Nicholas presented his plan to break apart the Ottoman Empire and remove the Turks from Europe: Russia was to gain Moldavia and Romania. Serbia and Bulgaria would become independent states and the Adriatic coast would go to Austria. Cyprus, Rhoades, and Egypt would go to Britain while Crete would be given to France. And Russia’s desire for the last few centuries would come to fruition with reestablishing Constantinople as a free Christian city under international protection. The war would begin between the Ottomans and Russia in 1853 as Russia easily destroyed their obsolete fleet and invaded the Balkans to put the city of Silistra under siege. France and Britain would shock the Russian Empire by being one of the only instances in history of Christian nations fighting in alliance with an Islamic one. As they declared war together against Russia in 1854. France and Britain rushed their fleet and armies to the region to go save the Ottoman Empire. 
Despite this setback for Russia, the Allied forces felt they would need to deal a more serious blow to Russian hegemony in the region and attacked Sevastopol, the base of the Russian Black Sea fleet on the Crimean Peninsula. The invasion and siege of Sevastopol would become an iconic example of military-leadership incompetence that led to a botched prolonged siege that cost 100,000’s of lives. After almost one year of siege, the city fell and with-it Russia’s military capabilities in the region.
The Crimean War highlights the romanticism of war from the Victorian Era, but it also showed the dark realities of warfare in a modernizing world. It was one of the first wars in human history to ever be photographed and reported on by modern newspapers in a daily fashion. The brief conflict cost almost one million lives, with the vast majority of soldiers being killed by disease. The political ramifications and alliances of the conflict wouldn’t last a decade after the war as the Ottoman Empire fell out of favor with the European powers and Russia regained much of its lost territory and influence in the region.
The war is a rather unknown event in Western history, however to this date the resistance and suffering of the Russian garrison at Sevastopol has been idolized and used in their national identity. There are an estimated 100,000-200,000 Russian soldiers buried in Crimea.
[Online References]
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../british/victorians/crimea_01.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/victorians/crimea_01.shtml?fbclid=IwAR1vhFEXvMaYMISi9E2PMqkC3QT02UBYqiKtKNpJmi4PoQlyf2ZszI3NpWE) )
(https://www.britishbattles.com/crime.../siege-of-sevastopol/ (https://www.britishbattles.com/crimean-war/siege-of-sevastopol/?fbclid=IwAR3tF17PGw1TjeB0xBT30det7M0QaOJ_0_Mwbro4FR0CZvvNaAA-BXnhhcQ) )
(https://www.historyextra.com/.../your-60-second-guide-to.../ (https://www.historyextra.com/period/victorian/your-60-second-guide-to-the-crimean-war/?fbclid=IwAR2eH-SwZlJbbkxSvkwe_xr7n5oCCmYgAm25k4-McgLS2vY-q2h7IR1a_7A) )

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2022, 12:25:45 PM
Work starts on environmentally ‘catastrophic’ Triangle Tower in Paris | Skyscrapers | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2022/feb/10/building-starts-on-catastrophic-triangle-tower-in-paris?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0gX3HeNg_Y6pybkK6rM1UAQ1jF7t69aq1qLXMOHRBbLCpwU274EQlHXUc#Echobox=1644505383)

(https://i.imgur.com/u7HZ05F.png)
It's also catastrophic to call a pyramid or triangular prism a triangle.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 08:24:37 AM
Mordor?

(https://i.imgur.com/aldWvWb.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 08:46:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Cv7YfbM.jpg)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 08:46:34 AM
The Last Peacemaker was retired today in 1959: This gigantic airplane, a Convair B-36J-75-CF Peacemaker, serial number 52-2827, was the very last of the ten-engine strategic bombers built by the Convair Division of General Dynamics at Fort Worth, Texas. It was completed 1 July 1954. On 14 August, it was delivered to the Strategic Air Command, 92nd Bombardment Wing, Heavy, at Fairchild Air Force Base, Washington. In April 1957, 52-2827 was assigned to the 95th Bombardment Wing, Heavy, at Biggs Air Force Base, El Paso, Texas.

The last one built, 52-2827 was also the last operational B-36. On February 12, 1959, the B-36 touched down at Amon Carter Field at 2:55 p.m. The Peacemaker’s logbook was closed out with a total of 1,414 hours, 50 minutes, flight time.

After a ceremony attended by thousands, the bomber was officially retired. A bugler blew “Taps,” and then the Peacemaker was towed away.

It was put on display at Amon Carter Field. After decades of neglect, the bomber was placed in the care of the Pima Air and Space Museum at Tucson for restoration and display. 
See less


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2022, 10:22:18 AM
In 1876, a coach named Walter Camp, who is considered the “Father of American Football,” helped produce the first rules of American football. Among important changes were the introduction of line scrimmages and down-and-distance rules. Provided by FactRetriever.com
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 13, 2022, 11:45:01 AM
Too Bad Gearge Custer didn't form a football league with the 7th Cavalry that year. Outside of playing the Redskins
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2022, 12:04:15 PM
Fun Fact:

George Custer won the Congressional Medal of Honor

but did you know that he had a brother named Thomas

who won the CMH twice being the first double recipient
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 12:28:43 PM
Fun fact, it's not really the CMoH, it's just the MoH.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 13, 2022, 12:42:59 PM
[img width=361.81 height=328]https://i.imgur.com/Cv7YfbM.jpg[/img]
Looks like a B36, known as "Six turning, four burning" due to having six piston engines and four jet engines but they had all kinds of mechanical problems so the crews adapted the slogan as necessary to something like

"Two turning, Three smoking, Two burning, and Three unaccounted for".
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 13, 2022, 12:48:33 PM
B-29 had all sorts of maintenance/mechanical problems also.Makes me wonder how many runs they really made at Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Would not be shocked if some of them splashed
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 12:49:18 PM
Yup.  My French bud did his military service as flight engineer on a Constellation, which he described as the best three engine aircraft ever built.

(https://i.imgur.com/sw6OtSp.jpg)

There is a B-36 in the AF Museum in Dayton, OH, which is a place worthy of a long visit.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 12:49:53 PM
B-29 had all sorts of maintenance/mechanical problems also.Makes me wonder how many runs they really made at Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Would not be shocked if some of them splashed
we only had two bombs at the time, so no.  A third was being completed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 13, 2022, 01:10:43 PM
Oops, I see you already shared that
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:05:56 PM
The 1967 Corvette Sting Ray Was One of the World's Best Cars (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a39039046/967-corvette-sting-ray-was-one-of-the-worlds-best-cars/?utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3e-rBMBQQojY5ToOUnLY-c0ZEvw1DcNrHGWYjsrWlbDdXlwAcMJwBXdos)

Quality of assembly is lacking, how­ever, and the following items were amiss on our test car: sev­eral rattles; improper clutch adjustment; an air leak over the windshield; choke setting; sticky throttle linkage; and a fresh-air vent that wouldn’t shut off.

Such deficiencies in a modern car would be unheard of, I think.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:27:34 PM
Tom Brady played until he was 44.  Satchel Paige almost played at 60.  September 25, 1965: At age 59, Satchel Paige relaxes in a rocking chair in the bullpen, preparing for the final game of his career by having a nurse rub liniment on his pitching arm. Satchel would go on to toss 3 scoreless innings in his final appearance.
(https://i.imgur.com/qgEPdlJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 09:53:08 AM
Game Changer: The 1949 Oldsmobile Rocket V-8 | Mac's Motor City Garage (macsmotorcitygarage.com) (https://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/game-changer-the-1949-oldsmobile-rocket-v-8/?fbclid=IwAR2uta-CraRPDJxlErPzNDqOMcCdGJcUErDlEmU0os9lbcbZVKt5B3u4ULM)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2022, 09:55:41 AM
I once had a boss that collected the Rockets

pretty cool
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 07:41:58 AM
Remember the Maine!
☞Today in History - On today’s date 124 years ago, Tuesday, February 15, 1898, a tremendous explosion of unknown origin sank the battleship U.S.S. Maine in the harbor of Havana, Cuba, killing 266 of the 354 crew members -- eventually leading to a naval blockade of Cuba, & to the declaration of the 1898 Spanish-American War.
☞The sinking of the Maine incited United States citizens’ passions against Spain, & the rallying cry “Remember the Maine -- To Hell with Spain!” was heard throughout the land.
☞On April 20, 1898, U.S. President William McKinley (1843-1901) signed a resolution demanding that Spain withdraw from Cuba. In response, Spain broke off diplomatic relations with the United States on April 21. On the same day, the U.S. Navy began a blockade of Cuba. Spain declared war on April 23. On April 25, Congress declared that a state of war between the U.S. & Spain had existed since April 21, the day that the U.S. blockade of Cuba had begun.
☞Lyrics from the 1898 song “Remember the Maine.”
From North & South & East & West,
From city, farm, & plain,
Loud comes a cry will never rest,
For vengeance unto Spain.
☞The most popular song during the time of the Spanish American War was
“There’ll be a Hot Time in the Old Town To-night,” a Ragtime song composed in 1896, with music by Theodore August “Ted” Metz (1848-1936) & lyrics by Joe Hayden. Hot Time in the Old Town became the official adopted theme song of Teddy Roosevelt’s Rough Riders.
☞In the 1919 book “The Story of Our National Ballads,” author C. A. Browne states that: “The witchery of this tune was such, that during our brief war with Spain, the Spaniards in Cuba were quite convinced that our National Anthem was named There’ll be a Hot Time in the Old Town To-night. At all events, the frolicsome tones of this unpretentious popular song are the most intimately associated of any, with the already dimming recollections of that whirlwind campaign.”

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 09:21:52 AM
The first Tour de France in 1903

(https://i.imgur.com/rbxNb1D.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 16, 2022, 10:03:40 AM
Remember the Maine!
The Spanish-American War is largely forgotten by most modern Americans.  I remember my dad telling me that when he was a boy (1940's) his family rented a cabin for a few weeks each summer on Lake Erie and the owner of the Cabin was a Spanish American War Veteran.  

Part of the reason that the war is so easily forgotten is that it was a ridiculous mismatch so it only lasted a few months.  However, it had far-reaching consequences.  When War was declared the Spanish Empire was still seen as one of Europe's and the World's major powers but Spain had been in decline for generations.  Meanwhile the US was seen as somewhat of an upstart power.  Realistically though the US had the World's Largest Economy and Spain was no match.  

In 10 weeks the US destroyed two Spanish Fleets (one in the Pacific, one in the Atlantic) and captured multiple Spanish Colonial possessions.  The Spanish sued for peace and the US acquired Cuba, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Philippines.  

The War was essentially America's announcement to the World that we were a major power (and that Spain was not).  It had far-reaching consequences because the whole reason that Japan felt they needed to destroy the American Fleet in 1941 was that the resources they desired were South of the Philippines which meant that they would have to transport said resources past the US controlled Philippines.  They felt that they couldn't secure those supply lines without capturing the Philippines.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 16, 2022, 10:46:20 AM
Some background on the above regarding Spain and the US heading into the Spanish-American War:

Spain:
The Iberian Peninsula was almost fully occupied by the Muslims at one point and parts of it were held by the Muslims for nearly 800 years from the Umayyad Caliphate's landing at Gibraltar in 711 to Ferdinand and Isabella's unification of Spain and eviction of the last Muslims in 1492.  After that, of course, the Spanish crown financed Columbus' voyage and they ended up with substantial colonial possessions in the Western Hemisphere and the Pacific in large part simply because they had something of a "first mover" advantage over the other European nations.  Those colonial possessions brought substantial wealth to Spain in the form of gold and trade with their colonies and that made Spain a (if not "the") world power for a time.  

Later, however, as the UK, France, Germany, and the United States Industrialized the Spanish failed to keep up.  According to Wiki, by 1900 the World's largest Economies were:

Spain had been a major world power four about 400 years and they were still seen as one even though they didn't realistically have the economy to back it up.  

The US:
The US Economy surpassed the UK sometime in the 1870's and passed China and India to become the world's largest at about the same time.  However, at first the US wasn't actually as wealthy or industrialized as the UK.  Instead, the US was close in wealth/industrialization and much larger in population.  Based on economy the US should have been treated as a major power by no later than the 1870's but they weren't partially simply due to inertia.  Global leaders and diplomats simply didn't think of the US as a major power because the US hadn't been one.  

Additionally, not long before becoming the world's largest economy the US had fought a devastating Civil War.  This generally left the US in no mood for imperialistic adventurism.  Finally, the US was naturally isolated from the conflicts of the other major powers because they were all in Europe.  

The first major power that the US bumped up against was Spain simply because Cuba is 90 mi from Key West and the US Navy had a large presence in Key West even then.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 10:50:58 AM
The Phillippine Insurrection which followed caused 4,400 US deaths of soldiers and Marines, fighting against mostly Muslim insurgents in an unpopular war in far off territory, also largely forgotten.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 16, 2022, 11:54:07 AM
The Phillippine Insurrection which followed caused 4,400 US deaths of soldiers and Marines, fighting against mostly Muslim insurgents in an unpopular war in far off territory, also largely forgotten.
Also the reason for the US switch to the M1911 .45 Caliber pistol.  Initially in the Philippines US soldiers with sidearms were carrying .38's but they discovered that a .38 just doesn't have enough stopping power.  A suicidal fanatic can absorb at least one and sometimes more than one .38 rounds and STILL keep charging.  The .45 fixed that problem.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 06:53:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/7NRJvEO.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 10:31:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2Qc5iz7.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2022, 11:06:45 PM
Iowa man swims the English Channel, bikes 9,000 miles, and scales Mt. Everest to complete “World Triathlon”.

Adventurer Charlie Wittmack is preparing to return to his hometown in Iowa after recently completing a 10,000 mile journey that began last July. The 34-year-old Des Moines man completed his “World Triathlon” on Friday when he reached the summit of Mt. Everest.

Wittmack reach the peak solo after six days of climbing. Prior to the climb of Mt. Everest, Wittmack ran or hiked 950 miles, rode a bike 9,000 miles from France to Nepal and swam 200 miles from the source of the Thames River and across the English Channel.

Wittmack, is the only American to have climbed Mount Everest and swum the English Channel.


_________________________________________________ ______________________________

Charlie was a speaker at an industry event I attended a few years back

https://www.triathlete.com/culture/news/after-scaling-everest-iowa-man-completes-world-triathlon/ (https://www.triathlete.com/culture/news/after-scaling-everest-iowa-man-completes-world-triathlon/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 18, 2022, 12:15:52 AM
Fearless you do all that looking for your ball.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2022, 07:22:45 AM
That guy should get to know his couch now, right?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 07:44:05 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uHdFs4r.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 09:13:04 AM
Flashback photos: A look back at Atlanta railroads (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/life/flashback-photos-a-look-back-at-atlanta-railroads/QBNTNVVZUBENLJKCENXWVMXSTY/?fbclid=IwAR1bNr-MJwm7naX99LX2pPSKOF8zAJhMiJYPzqz23WM3M2yQe9Ibf7uFgk4)

Some pretty neat old train photos.  Railroads built Atlanta, not waterways, which is unusual for a larger city.

In 7th grade, I took a train to DC and NYC as part of a school trip, I don't recall much of it.  Trains seem "romantic" in one sense, or two, I'm not sure they work very well today generally speaking in the US.  Americans will use a bus for a cheap trip instead of trains, usually.  And airfare isn't that much more.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 09:19:35 AM
From 1957, predicted in about ten years:

(https://i.imgur.com/sJilrX2.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 19, 2022, 10:35:29 AM
Shoot, the future of Back To The Future 2 is now seven years' past and we still don't have the hoverboards and flying cars demonstrated in that movie.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 03:31:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pxJG1hq.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 03:36:42 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XBgdmsA.jpg)


"The fire from automatic weapons was coming from all over. You could've held up a cigarette and lit it on the stuff going by. I knew immediately we were in for one hell of a time."

Marines probably from the 25th Regiment, 4th Division rushing out of their landing craft for the landing on Yellow and Blue Beaches at Iwo Jima on D-day, 19 February 1945.
(note the LVT (Landing Craft Tracked) burning in right center.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 19, 2022, 05:52:47 PM
Is that Call of Duty?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 05:54:23 PM
Is that Call of Duty?
Are you referring to the Marines landing on Iwo Jima?

That would be my son's regiment, incidentally.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 19, 2022, 05:57:40 PM
I have no idea, just commenting on how the modern video games look like the real thing.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 06:13:58 PM
I included the description of the photo underneath it.  It's real, not some civilian simulation.

I'm not sure I would have had the guts.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2022, 08:25:00 PM
probably didn't have the chance to have the guts

can't stay in the boat
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 08:12:04 AM
Every personal account I've read says the soldier (or Marines) do this stuff because their buddy next to them does it.

"With the Old Breed" is the best personal memoir I've found.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 20, 2022, 09:40:28 AM
Every personal account I've read says the soldier (or Marines) do this stuff because their buddy next to them does it.
Same here. We tend to think of WWII or Civil War soldiers fighting for/against Fascism or Slavery but most were not terribly ideological they just did it because the guy next to them did.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 09:52:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/E3B3LzL.jpg)

Parmentier Potatoes - French Potato Recipe | Greedy Gourmet (https://www.greedygourmet.com/recipes-by-national-cuisine/french/parmentier-potatoes/)

My wife fixes parmentier potatoes at times, I never knew the origins of the term.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 10:49:30 AM
man the potato lobby is big
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 11:54:58 AM
On April 20, 1861, one day after learning Virginia had seceded from the Union, Lee resigned from the U.S. Army. Although he had hoped the Commonwealth would avoid secession, his first loyalty was to Virginia. He wrote that it was a great struggle "to separate myself from a service to which I have devoted all the best years of my life."
"My loyalty to Virginia ought to take precedence over that which is due the Federal Government...If Virginia stands by the old Union, so will I. But if she secedes...then I will follow my native state with my word, and if need be with my life...These are my principles, and I must follow them."
Lee was asked after the war if, in hindsight, he would have acted differently. He replied that he would have acted in the same manner: "I could have taken no other course without dishonor."



I find this an interesting dilemma if one considers the period.  Many viewed their loyalty as to the state over the country, "these united states".  On the other hand, he swore an oath to the US when he entered West Point.  I don't think he swore one to Virginia.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 12:28:21 PM
Shrimp and Grits: A History - Deep South Magazine (https://deepsouthmag.com/2014/10/01/shrimp-and-grits-a-history/)

Since then, shrimp and grits had remained a breakfast dish found mainly in the lowcountry marshes near the Southern coast. However, in 1982, when Bill Neal became a chef at Crook’s Corner (http://www.crookscorner.com/), a restaurant in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, he forever changed the status of shrimp and grits. Neal used a simple recipe of cheese grits fused with cheddar and parmesan as a base, and then topped it off with jumbo shrimp as well as mushrooms, bacon and a few other ingredients. After Craig Claiborne of The New York Times visited the restaurant and published Neal’s recipe (http://www.food.com/recipe/crooks-corner-shrimp-and-grits-90000) in 1985, the once humble dish started gaining widespread popularity.




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 20, 2022, 12:37:25 PM
I like shrimp and grits a lot.  Best I've had were in New Orleans.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 12:47:24 PM
I had not seen these variations on the theme, now I'm interested in trying some, like with sauteed peppers and onions and maybe a red sauce.  Around here what I've seen is literally grits with some shrimp mixed in.  I have dined at Crook's Corner.  When I lived there it was a BBQ dive, so I took my wife when we visited a few years back, it had gone way upscale.  It's also really in Carrboro, NC, or on the line, but that doesn't sound as good.

My apartment was in Carrboro, literally across the tracks.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 12:50:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/E1jQ45P.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 01:49:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eHrdT6Z.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 20, 2022, 02:39:18 PM
man the potato lobby is big
It is, and highly successful.  They're in a much better spot than the egg industry.
Chips, fries, hash browns......good example of diversifying.  Eggs have all of......themselves in one big breakfast basket.  Potatoes are everywhere and need to only keep the health nuts at bay.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 04:45:21 PM
It's all because of Parmentier.

This is pretty good BTW.

Hachis Parmentier (French Beef and Potato Casserole) • Curious Cuisiniere (https://www.curiouscuisiniere.com/hachis-parmentier/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 05:11:17 PM
[color=var(--primary-text)]On November 3, 1911, Louis Chevrolet co-founded the famed “Chevrolet Motor Car Company” with Durant and two other investors, William Little and Dr. Edwin R. Campbell, on November 3, 1911.[/color]
[color=var(--primary-text)]However, when he and Durant disagreed over the car’s design, he sold Durant’s portion of the firm in 1915 and went on to form McLaughlin’s Company, which built Chevrolets in Canada.[/color]
(https://www.shutterbulky.com/what-made-louis-chevrolet-famous/?fbclid=IwAR1dYzFukdvRZuO28nNfIqW7oGPNnzh8oo4pJk4nsx62Bg5CsPIaEJucC8Q)[img width=680 height=354.938 alt=What made Louis Chevrolet famous? Amazing Inspirational story - ShutterBulky]https://external-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQEgduVw_LlP7lgT&w=500&h=261&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.shutterbulky.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2021%2F12%2FIn-1906-Louis-drove-a-Durracq-Christie-V8-to-119.7-mph..jpg&cfs=1&ext=jpg&_nc_oe=6f9c9&_nc_sid=06c271&ccb=3-5&gt=1&_nc_hash=AQEQu8OsY_TTa0mG[/img]
 (https://www.shutterbulky.com/what-made-louis-chevrolet-famous/?fbclid=IwAR1dYzFukdvRZuO28nNfIqW7oGPNnzh8oo4pJk4nsx62Bg5CsPIaEJucC8Q)
 (https://www.shutterbulky.com/what-made-louis-chevrolet-famous/?fbclid=IwAR1dYzFukdvRZuO28nNfIqW7oGPNnzh8oo4pJk4nsx62Bg5CsPIaEJucC8Q)

 (https://www.shutterbulky.com/what-made-louis-chevrolet-famous/?fbclid=IwAR0lDX4ljTxXgR6JNjGZlEel1EbTYfqFiXACshb4ATZ0EJ5lH1d3hXnfDR8)[color=var(--secondary-text)]SHUTTERBULKY.COM[/color][/font]
[color=var(--primary-text)]What made Louis Chevrolet famous? Amazing Inspirational story - ShutterBulky[/size][/color]
[color=var(--secondary-text)]Louis Chevrolet was born on December 25, 1878, in La Chaux-de-Fonds, Switzerland. Chevrolet's parents were Joseph Felician Chevrolet and Angelina Marie[/size][/color]

I always thought it ironic that two of GMs brands have obviously French names, and another is Indian.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 05:35:22 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eTNqpqS.png)

Scientists closer to understanding domestication of corn | AGDAILY (https://www.agdaily.com/crops/scientists-closer-understanding-domestication-corn/?utm_source=FbMain&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 20, 2022, 06:58:28 PM
The idea of a county declaring something as edible is asinine. 

We're animals.  We eat what's edible.  Thankfully, we're omnivores, so we have the entire nature's buffet to choose from.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 07:03:19 PM
We have this government entity called the FDA which basically decides what is edible, and not.  They can declare such things as say avocados as inedible if they are tainted.

Tomatoes once were viewed as toxic, and their leaves are in fact.  Some folks decided pork was not to be eaten.  

A lot of "Nature's buffet" is toxic.  Plenty of things in Nature are highly toxic.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 07:13:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/UqYBZfX.png)

My first trip to NYC in 7th grade, I was surprised they had Coke there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 20, 2022, 07:43:51 PM
A lot of "Nature's buffet" is toxic.  Plenty of things in Nature are highly toxic. 
Then don't eat that.  lol
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2022, 08:01:54 PM
some folks don't know any better

the FDA helps lend guidance
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 04:15:17 AM
When some people believe a food is toxic and it isn't, a government imprimatur can be useful in changing minds.  I infer many French didn't eat potatoes before Parmentier came along, I didn't know that.  He convinced government, apparently, to let folks know it was OK.  Individuals may not be able technically to make such judgments.

It may be more important to understand which wells are contaminated and provide unsafe drinking water etc.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 08:36:56 AM
The Making of a Louisiana Legend tells the story of the unit that was the origin of the famous name "Louisiana Tigers." Officially, the unit was Company B, of Wheat's Battalion. It became famous because of their flashy Zouave uniforms, their famous battalion commander, Major Roberdeau Wheat, and their heroics at First Battle of Manassas.

Their nickname, Tigers, became attached, first to the battalion, and then to all Louisiana troops serving in the Army of Northern Virginia. The men became so notorious for their antics in camp, they got blamed for a lot of things they didn't do, although they did plenty on their own to deserve their reputation. As fighters in battle they were unsurpassed. LSU Tigers are named after this regiment.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2022, 10:56:09 AM
The Statue of Liberty was meant to be unveiled in 1876 to celebrate America’s centennial, but construction costs and other governmental hinderances delayed it by almost 10 years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 11:04:03 AM
The Statue of Liberty was meant to be unveiled in 1876 to celebrate America’s centennial, but construction costs and other governmental hinderances delayed it by almost 10 years.
just hold on CD is checking this out
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 21, 2022, 11:38:13 AM

Because
When some people believe a food is toxic and it isn't, a government imprimatur can be useful in changing minds.  I infer many French didn't eat potatoes before Parmentier came along
I guess folks for years folks thought the same about tomatoes in this country
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2022, 11:39:12 AM
just hold on CD is checking this out
almost 10 years is curiously vague 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 11:41:43 AM
In 1885, Bartholdi completed the statue, which was disassembled, packed in more than 200 crates, and shipped to New York, arriving that June aboard the French frigate Isere. Over the next four months, workers reassembled the statue and mounted it on the pedestal; its height reached 305 feet (or 93 meters), including the pedestal. On October 28, 1886, President Grover Cleveland (https://www.history.com/topics/us-presidents/grover-cleveland) officially dedicated the Statue of Liberty in front of thousands of spectators.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 11:43:48 AM
In 1885, Bartholdi completed the statue, which was disassembled, packed in more than 200 crates, and shipped to New York, arriving that June aboard the French frigate Isere. Over the next four months, workers reassembled the statue and mounted it on the pedestal; its height reached 305 feet (or 93 meters), including the pedestal. On October 28, 1886, President Grover Cleveland (https://www.history.com/topics/us-presidents/grover-cleveland) officially dedicated the Statue of Liberty in front of thousands of spectators.
told ya
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 21, 2022, 04:51:24 PM
BecauseI guess folks for years folks thought the same about tomatoes in this country
Tom Brady still does. Gisele doesn't let him eat nightshades. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 06:11:07 PM
Chile peppers are part of the nightshade family, and I can't imagine a life without them.  Not worth it.  Not even for Giselle. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 06:30:59 PM
The tomato plant itself is toxic, fairly high levels of oxalic acid.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 21, 2022, 08:41:26 PM
some folks don't know any better

the FDA helps lend guidance
This might be our problem.  
Too many Darwin Awarded people walking around that wouldn't be here if this was 4,000 years ago.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2022, 11:26:33 PM
4,000 years ago, no public education

waste of time and resources
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 22, 2022, 02:57:36 AM
Yep, be on the side against education. 
Brilliant.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 06:43:00 AM
This might be our problem. 
Too many Darwin Awarded people walking around that wouldn't be here if this was 4,000 years ago.
On a personal level, I can't tell if food has been tainted with shigella, or if some drug is laced with fentanyl, or if some deodorant contains benzene.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 06:47:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/4mFIkqq.png)

1948, and of course in CA they would claim BBQ burgers.  Huh.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 07:05:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/lkPgd2w.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 07:19:47 AM
Tomato History | A Brief History Lesson about the Tomato (tomato-cages.com) (https://www.tomato-cages.com/tomato-history.html)

"...most Europeans thought that the tomato was poisonous because of the way plates and flatware were made in the 1500's.

Rich people in that time used flatware made of pewter, which has a high-lead content. Foods high in acid, like tomatoes, would cause the lead to leech out into the food, resulting in lead poisoning and death. Poor people, who ate off of plates made of wood, did not have that problem, and hence did not have an aversion to tomatoes. This is essentially the reason why tomatoes were only eaten by poor people until the 1800's, especially Italians.

What changed in the 1800's? First, and most significantly, was the mass immigration from Europe to America and the traditional blending of cultures. Many Italian-Americans ate tomatoes and brought that food with them. But also, and perhaps equally as important, was the invention of pizza. There is no pizza without tomato sauce, and pizza was invented around Naples in the late 1880's. The story goes that it was created by one restaurateur in Naples to celebrate the visit of Queen Margarite, the first Italian monarch since Napoleon conquered Italy. The restaurateur made the pizza from three ingredients that represented the colors of the new Italian flag: red, white, and green. The red is the tomato sauce, the white was the mozzarella cheese, and the green was the basil topping. Hence, Pizza Margarite was born, and is still the standard for pizza. And what could have led more to the popularity of the tomato than pizza!"


An interesting aspect of tomato history is the classic debate: Is the Tomato a Fruit or Vegetable? I guess that depends on whom you are asking. By definition, a fruit is the edible plant structure of a mature ovary of a flowering plant, usually eaten raw; some are sweet like apples, but the ones that are not sweet such as tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, etc. are commonly called vegetables. Botanists claim that a fruit is any fleshy material that covers a seed or seeds where as a horticulturists point of view would pose that the tomato is a vegetable plant. Until the late 1800's the tomato was classified as a fruit to avoid taxation, but this was changed after a Supreme Court ruling that the tomato is a vegetable and should be taxed accordingly.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 22, 2022, 10:16:28 AM
Yep, be on the side against education. 
Brilliant.
isn't education a form of anti-Darwinism?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 12:31:47 PM
I occasionally see all the ads on TV for "pills" and "creams" and leg wraps containing copper and realize how many of us are suckers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 12:46:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MNEUhzv.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 12:48:21 PM
2022:

(https://i.imgur.com/kdLoEPL.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 12:50:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vxnzipL.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 12:50:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/JpTNcJI.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 12:59:14 PM
That had to be someone trolling for responses.They can install a big lift kit but couldn't figure out the Tire situation or ran out of cash
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 04:30:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/2co4BIj.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 22, 2022, 09:12:01 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ccYOv49.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 22, 2022, 09:46:22 PM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fVKeJ1vGNfo/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2022, 12:10:57 AM
He runs over even a turtle he'll wish he had a lift kit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 08:57:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CbAZ2Aa.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 24, 2022, 11:08:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ccYOv49.jpg)
While I agree generally, in his defense most of what you have labeled "Odd, nonsensical lift" IS needed because those gargantuan tires wouldn't fit in the fenders.  The body lift is simply to get the clearance for the tires.  

Looking at the exposed drivetrain it looks like the lift was strictly a body lift as it appears that the engine is down with the tires not up with the body so it looks like all they did was put REALLY big tires on it and then move the body up enough to fit the tires.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 11:19:40 AM
You also get more spring travel with extra lift, which can be useful, of course.  Then you need lift to ensure the tires are clear of the body under a compressive load.

It's a silly vehicle to me.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 11:57:04 AM
It's a silly vehicle to anyone, except perhaps the monster truck community.  That's why I posted it. :)

But the whole joke, is the deliberately undersized donut spare...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 02:19:24 PM
Heh, I missed that entirely.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2022, 08:48:20 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/JpTNcJI.png)
this looks photshopped but, I've seen regular sized wheels and tires put on one one these "lifted" trucks to be able to get it into the paint shop or repair shop without a tall door.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MarqHusker on February 24, 2022, 08:58:13 PM
Upon our return from the 1996 Fiesta Bowl (62-24). 3 of us were in a 1990 Tercel or Corolla?  We left the rest of our party in Colorado Springs and had a flat near Castle Rock, CO.  We needed to get to Omaha that day.  We drove on a donut in 20 degree weather the entire 500mile route.   I can tell you we weren't obeying the speed limit.  50 miles and 45mph my ass.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 24, 2022, 09:04:32 PM
(https://cdn-0.amishamerica.com/images/amish-buggy.jpg?ezimgfmt=rs:407x303/rscb13/ng:webp/ngcb13)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 08:16:24 AM
The temp spares are actually pretty amazingly good.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 09:11:13 AM
In the late 1960s and early 1970s, there was a futuristic and popular "UFO" village in the Wanli district of Taiwan. Most of the flying saucer houses have been abandoned, creating an eerie UFO graveyard.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 12:07:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Ovj2iR6.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 12:15:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Ovj2iR6.png)
so now folks will get arrested for trying to hold up a toll booth
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 25, 2022, 03:44:40 PM
or shot
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 04:30:00 PM
I assume this is from the 50s or 60s

how did this NOT become wildly popular?!?!?!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 07:19:55 PM
The Chosin Frozen:

(https://i.imgur.com/aeAf18p.png)

During the Battle of Chosin Reservoir in 1950, U.S. Marines called for more "Tootsie Rolls" which was the code for 60mm mortar ammo. A radio operator was unfamiliar with the code, so the Marines instead received a large airdrop of the chewy candy. However, the Marines welcomed the treats because they needed a bit of an energy boost. They also found that Tootsie Rolls were useful for plugging bullet holes in their equipment. =AZWY1HcocvCRyTqXGV0wQ2R2Sb9RQswlL3jxx1QeDjc5Msy-9O7UyU0lipeHa-n8ylbbgkDFTmzrNV3O5_EaaJBsnub5wvw0x1JWdqQnzoGy2CGJiUNDLpVuqJxxB5dKtgovskN-PiuqMyOfIkEBFu86G56-H3xuA9YVe8SViz5ISr3yLfi7cempeerZ5NZZPuqM7Y6riWR5Z7-pGcTbK6Uu&__tn__=*NK*F"][color=var(--primary-text)]#nationaltootsierollday (http://"https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/nationaltootsierollday?__eep__=6&__cft__[0)[/iurl][/font][/size][/color]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2022, 11:50:26 AM
Yellowstone National Park was established as the United States’ first national park in 1872. To celebrate its 150th year, National Geographic has published a series of photos captured over that time of what is often called America’s Wonderland.

https://petapixel.com/2022/02/25/see-150-years-of-yellowstone-national-park-in-photos/ (https://petapixel.com/2022/02/25/see-150-years-of-yellowstone-national-park-in-photos/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 27, 2022, 04:35:23 PM
Yellowstone National Park was established as the United States’ first national park in 1872. To celebrate its 150th year, National Geographic has published a series of photos captured over that time of what is often called America’s Wonderland.

https://petapixel.com/2022/02/25/see-150-years-of-yellowstone-national-park-in-photos/ (https://petapixel.com/2022/02/25/see-150-years-of-yellowstone-national-park-in-photos/)
It is truly a beautiful place. I have a cousin who is a chef at Yellowstone Park Lodge. My wife and I visited him and the Park a few years ago (pre kids) and it is amazing. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 04:40:53 PM
It is almost unbelievable such a place could exist in nature, I think, it's so varied and unique.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2022, 06:11:16 PM
I visited in June of 76

snowing so hard it was difficult to see old faithful going off
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2022, 06:56:51 PM
It is almost unbelievable such a place could exist in nature, I think, it's so varied and unique.
back in the 80s/90s History Channel had on the Docu themed REAL WEST with Kenny Rogers narrating.They did segments on the Mountain Men/Trappers/Exporers Lewis & Clark.Any way when they'd all return after a couple of years attempting to describe the wonders they saw to civilization - guysers,glaziers,waterfalls,mountains,valleys,meadows filled with massive buffalo,Elk,Grizzly Bears,cougars - all turrible beasts.They were panned as story tellers and bullshit artists
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2022, 12:26:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eYNGA7A.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 28, 2022, 12:34:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eYNGA7A.png)
Boomers, those things are scary aren't they?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 28, 2022, 12:37:02 PM
Boomers, those things are scary aren't they? 
I don't have a source for this offhand but I remember reading that just one of the missiles aboard those has more firepower than all of the bombs that have ever been dropped in all of the wars that have ever been fought including the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2022, 12:39:42 PM
The new boomers with Trident missiles can carry up to ten warheads, each of which would be 10-15x more powerful than Hiroshima's A bomb.

The Ohio Class carries 24 of those, with a 7,000 nm range.  If they ever are used, the next war will be fought with rocks and sticks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 28, 2022, 12:48:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eYNGA7A.png)
Man that's a lot of paint
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2022, 04:59:46 PM
The American concept of impeachment has its origins in Ancient Rome. Only senators could be impeached, but not the emperor. This lead to a number of assassinations—a potentially bloody situation the Founding Fathers hoped to avoid.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2022, 06:01:33 PM
Meet the General Belgrano: The Only Ship Ever Sunk by a Nuclear Submarine | The National Interest (https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/meet-general-belgrano-only-ship-ever-sunk-nuclear-submarine-188481)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 28, 2022, 06:41:34 PM
Meet the General Belgrano: The Only Ship Ever Sunk by a Nuclear Submarine | The National Interest (https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/meet-general-belgrano-only-ship-ever-sunk-nuclear-submarine-188481)
I remember at the time that there was a lot of pushback over this as some military experts thought it was not necessary

to sink that ship because it posed no threat
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2022, 08:36:51 PM
it was a live target
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 01, 2022, 12:04:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/eYNGA7A.png)
That is one expensive egg carton.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2022, 09:21:12 AM
The current boomers of course are far more expensive, and deadly.  If they ever were used ....

We have ten Ohio Class submarines with enormous destructive power, one of them has more than most nuclear nations.  The Russians of course have their rough equivalents, probably not as quiet and with a more restricted patrol area.  One idea they had was to keep them under the Arctic ice cap and they surface to fire.

I don't know what kind of shape they are in today.

A full nuclear exchange could possibly eradicate nearly all of humanity.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 01, 2022, 09:40:33 AM
At least we captured the Red October when that Scottish Russian(?) guy defected.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2022, 09:43:23 AM
I was musing about that movie last night, and the book, which is far far better and more realilstic.  Clancy was so mad about how they messed up his books, he managed to prevent anyone from making any more movies from his books after the three they made.  The movies were decent on their on, but if you read the books ....


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on March 01, 2022, 10:18:34 AM
I was musing about that movie last night, and the book, which is far far better and more realilstic.  Clancy was so mad about how they messed up his books, he managed to prevent anyone from making any more movies from his books after the three they made.  The movies were decent on their on, but if you read the books ....



Ive read every one and still marvel at how much research he did
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2022, 06:14:38 PM
On This Day in History > March 1, 1781:
The Articles of Confederation are ratified after nearly four years

"On March 1, 1781, the Articles of Confederation are finally ratified. The Articles were signed by Congress and sent to the individual states for ratification on November 15, 1777, after 16 months of debate. Bickering over land claims between Virginia and Maryland delayed final ratification for almost four more years. Maryland finally approved the Articles on March 1, 1781, affirming the Articles as the outline of the official government of the United States. The nation was guided by the Articles of Confederation until the implementation of the current U.S. Constitution in 1789.
The critical distinction between the Articles of Confederation and the U.S. Constitution —the primacy of the states under the Articles—is best understood by comparing the following lines.
The Articles of Confederation begin:
“To all to whom these Present shall come, we the undersigned Delegates of the States”
By contrast, the Constitution begins:
“We the People of the United States ... do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
The predominance of the states under the Articles of Confederation is made even more explicit by the claims of Article II:
“Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.”
Less than five years after the ratification of the Articles of Confederation, enough leading Americans decided that the system was inadequate to the task of governance that they peacefully overthrew their second government in just over 20 years. The difference between a collection of sovereign states forming a confederation and a federal government created by a sovereign people lay at the heart of debate as the new American people decided what form their government would take.
Between 1776 and 1787, Americans went from living under a sovereign king, to living in sovereign states, to becoming a sovereign people. That transformation defined the American Revolution."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 02, 2022, 08:03:45 AM
126 years ago today in 1896, Ethiopians led by their Emperor shock the modernizing world by defeating a modern Italian army in the Battle of Adwa during the First Italo-Ethiopian War.
Towards the end of the 1800’s, Italy became a unified Kingdom for the first time in centuries. The new kingdom was eager for expansion and colonies to match their rivals. For centuries the Horn of Africa was under the hegemony of Egypt, however in 1884 Egypt collapsed and a power vacuum occurred in the region. The Kingdom of Italy jumped on the opportunity and sent troops to the region and skirmished with the Ethiopians for years until the British intervened to mediate between both sides.
Tensions began to arise again in 1894 as Ethiopians grew tired of their Italian neighbors. Many of the tribes united around Emperor Menelik II who was putting his efforts to unite the Ethiopian provinces against the Italian colonizers. By 1895 a full blown conflict broke out and the Italians began achieving victories and pushing further into rebellious Ethiopian territory. Their early successes would make them feel like the Ethiopians were a push over opponent. But by late 1895 both sides were stalemated and supplies were running low for both armies. The Italian governor of their territory Oreste Baratieri was pressured by the Italian government to attack Emperor Menelik’s massive 100,000+ force that was poorly supplied.
On the late night of February 29th and early morning of March 1st, 17,000 Italians moved towards the city of Adwa where Menelik’s army was camped. The Ethiopians were alerted of the Italian advance and deployed their army. The Ethiopians had plenty of outdated firearms, as well as some modern Russian artillery and rifles that came with a group of Russian advisers helping them against the Italians. After both armies fought hard for several hours, the Ethiopians would utilize their massive numbers and send in their reserves that outnumbered the Italian army. The Italians would be overran and the battle is famous for two of their generals being killed in attempts to hopelessly rally their routing forces.
The defeat at Adwa shocked Italy and the Kingdom would desire revenge of the embarrassing defeat for decades to follow. With Italian Nationalism revitalized by dictator Benito Mussolini in the 20th century,  Italy would return in 1935 with airplanes and tanks to crush the Ethiopians with impunity while the rest of the world watched before World War 2. However the Victory at Adwa in 1896 remains a public holiday and is one of the most celebrated events in Ethiopian history.
[Online References]
(=AT1vTnUi6dE69Zaw8YhgfBeaATI88t-bUukW_dE3CHcil8grQ66POwY0NzHpDAvzDOe-lxsz9bM7LOC7VCZWIGQxGdVxtQtsPlV7J7VuxNbRe_6fm-x-Ta0yO2IDJqDUSN_Wbq6CZC2Sklc1sAn9U1xHNzwAtCG07ijXzmRLMd0rkUczsyLF_bDq1tvOaDFPjViXsIs7rWVMlOJ64lyhiZoAj0X7hdWjRL4"][color=var(--blue-link)]https://origins.osu.edu/review/when-ethiopia-stunned-world (http://"https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Forigins.osu.edu%2Freview%2Fwhen-ethiopia-stunned-world%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR14KEBnVq-_xOalTqN0OxJrMgTS2MKmILMOgJMLZXxUqAbgprwXgJhutko&h=AT2MhkcabzXUZKB40MDkL6vb6b62oyWONSa5J8g3ARbQ65soWhorh6MwIFsChdlyD4xI1Jf57MkYozQ3mdSd31n0jllh-DKYyy5vh-v4cWXxvDm0mDzCZMLn7QO4xU-VsA&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0)[/url] )[/font][/font][/size][/color]
(=AT1vTnUi6dE69Zaw8YhgfBeaATI88t-bUukW_dE3CHcil8grQ66POwY0NzHpDAvzDOe-lxsz9bM7LOC7VCZWIGQxGdVxtQtsPlV7J7VuxNbRe_6fm-x-Ta0yO2IDJqDUSN_Wbq6CZC2Sklc1sAn9U1xHNzwAtCG07ijXzmRLMd0rkUczsyLF_bDq1tvOaDFPjViXsIs7rWVMlOJ64lyhiZoAj0X7hdWjRL4"][color=var(--blue-link)]https://www.washington.edu/.../larger-than-life.../ (http://"https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washington.edu%2Fnews%2F2012%2F01%2F05%2Flarger-than-life-characters-intrigue-part-of-history-behind-battle-of-adwa%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0vJDKBTAFRTIknVppchz4qJQWpKzOCiHkIS2LSYrybRQS8phv-Ps8YMUk&h=AT2EMBFRit1NmMI7cztm9lzpKVZWIH-AViKCDazOFgaxu0qC2hJmb2Eh6z3qszMVReINwaL2Hl-qFCW54T5fjWHUgtxrWbscU-oji7qzGvjLXY9BhSFnoEWYgn2uP1HQbw&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0)[/url] )[/font][/font][/size][/color]
(=AT1vTnUi6dE69Zaw8YhgfBeaATI88t-bUukW_dE3CHcil8grQ66POwY0NzHpDAvzDOe-lxsz9bM7LOC7VCZWIGQxGdVxtQtsPlV7J7VuxNbRe_6fm-x-Ta0yO2IDJqDUSN_Wbq6CZC2Sklc1sAn9U1xHNzwAtCG07ijXzmRLMd0rkUczsyLF_bDq1tvOaDFPjViXsIs7rWVMlOJ64lyhiZoAj0X7hdWjRL4"][color=var(--blue-link)]https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Adwa (http://"https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.britannica.com%2Fevent%2FBattle-of-Adwa%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0SLnhz-EQU9k5FCf_p9LCiLSCYjrQSy7OC5yKE3X0Y3z4VSv2LxlCHoiM&h=AT0FEEoivYg7KApVR7hOV9edbnZ_sP4LKuJ-8Gcn2QMDJHfx8xpT7BGw2n0I3rVnbuZhAQUwVMRghkh4vBPf2fEv0GHJZaNt1LNN54JeXzcHQdq4hWV6rdGYHvqvZbW1Ng&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0)[/url] )[/font][/font][/size][/color]

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 02, 2022, 09:25:13 AM
https://youtu.be/3tNft7sv-Zo?t=2396

Watched a WW1 Docu the last couple minutes definitely worth a listen.On the advances that were made for prosthetics and pretty good job on masks for facial disfigurements and such. But they touched on the psychological aspects of course were very hard to address
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 02, 2022, 11:57:37 AM
Why the number 137 is one of the greatest mysteries in physics - Big Think (https://bigthink.com/hard-science/number-137-physics/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR063eCqdC4jRQ2ixi_0LBpjOvjoWGyyhG1PiH19RzdNankV2mBpcC531_E#Echobox=1646087799)

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9)]Does the Universe around us have a fundamental structure that can be glimpsed through special numbers?[/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9)]The brilliant physicist Richard Feynman (1918-1988) famously thought so, [color=rgba(229,84,68,var(--tw-text-opacity))]saying[/color] (http://www.secretsinplainsight.com/why-137/) there is a number that all theoretical physicists of worth should “worry about”. He called it “one of the greatest damn mysteries of physics: a magic number that comes to us with no understanding by man”.[/font][/size][/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9)]That magic number, called the fine structure constant, is a fundamental constant, with a value which nearly equals 1/137. Or 1/137.03599913, to be precise. It is denoted by the Greek letter alpha – α.[/color]


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 02, 2022, 12:14:37 PM
Ukrainians are selling used Russian Tanks on eBay : ukraine (reddit.com) (https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t51m3n/ukrainians_are_selling_used_russian_tanks_on_ebay/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 11:42:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9NUsRks.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 06:46:25 PM
Times were hard for tobacco farmers in the late 19th Century. Crop prices were falling, partly due to deflation and partly due to the rise of dominant railroad and tobacco manufacturing monopolies. A growing preference for cigarettes over chewing tobacco had rapidly destroyed most of the small plug manufacturers. Then, in 1890 James Duke, who already controlled over half of the cigarette market, bought out most of his remaining competitors and consolidated them into a single entity—the American Tobacco Company—giving him control of over 90% of the market—a virtual monopoly, which allowed him to dictate prices to both farmers and consumers. Meanwhile, elsewhere in the country, cotton and grain farmers in the South and Midwest were being squeezed by the same kind of monetary and monopolistic pressures.
Farmers cried foul and gathered into an opposition movement. Across the country they organized into “Farmer’s Alliances,” demanding an increased money supply, lower interest rates, and regulation of the monopolies, known at the time as “trusts.” Just as they were doing all across the South and Midwest, in August 1890, Farmers Alliance delegates from across Virginia gathered at a convention in Lynchburg, where they adopted a lofty “Declaration of Principles,” one of which called for “the destruction of all trusts and the withdrawal of all favors in the shape of subsidies and bounties.” Meanwhile, the Alliances were creating their own newspapers, magazines, and co-operative warehouses.
By 1891, however, the Alliance movement was dying out, as the failure to break into the political mainstream had caused enthusiasm to wane and falling commodity prices had made it increasingly difficult for farmers to pay for their subscriptions to the cooperatives, and the farmer-owned warehouses began to close.
But farmers weren’t ready to give up their fight and many channeled the energy of the Alliances into the creation of a new political party—the People’s Party—which emerged dramatically onto the national scene in the election of 1892, a story for another day.
The image is a People’s Party cartoon from 1892, depicting Farmers Alliances from across the country uniting and tossing “old grudges,” “sectional strife” and “hate” into the “Bloody Chasm.”

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 03, 2022, 09:01:52 PM
There may be a magic number in college football.

7.9

It's sort of the cutoff for having a good-to-great team, for yards per pass attempt.  Regardless of the type of offense a team has, if you're below that, your team has a near-zero chance at being any good.

And I haven't recorded this, but it's also the mode for good-to-great teams by that measure.  Honestly, I believe it's a tipping point.

But I could be wrong.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 09:24:17 PM
Which teams were under 7.9 of note?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 03, 2022, 10:12:22 PM
Pitt and Whipple and small hands Picket were over 8.6 last season

of course the Huskers with Martinez were 9.35
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2022, 07:38:27 AM
It would be interesting to plot pass yard per attempt versus wins for P5s and see if there is a correlation (there should be some).

UGA had 27 passes per game and 252 yards.  Bennett had 287 attempts and 2,862 yards, a pretty solid figure.  Daniels was 94 for 722, not as good.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2022, 11:56:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CWSzPtm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2022, 04:33:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/glBHywP.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2022, 06:00:03 PM
Which teams were under 7.9 of note?
None....that's my point.


None off the top of my head.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 06, 2022, 07:56:01 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/glBHywP.png)
Wonder how many times there were unfortunate belly landings? Tough spot to be in regardless specially on the long distance runs before the Mustang started chaperoning them
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2022, 08:03:01 AM
might want to put on the parachute before climbing in
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2022, 08:15:01 AM
The forefather of the modern-day park ranger, Harry Yount, Yellowstone’s first gamekeeper, was stationed at Tower-Roosevelt Junction through the Lamar Valley in 1880 to help stop the illegal slaughter of animals.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 06, 2022, 08:52:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/glBHywP.png)
Whoever designed that was pretty confident he'd never have to be in it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2022, 03:06:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/FBIN727.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 06, 2022, 03:07:55 PM
Weird recent history:
both Barry Sanders' and Emmitt Smith's sons went to Stanford.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2022, 03:10:13 PM
Somewhere around 2004, the US Patent Office dispensed with its paper records and went electronic.  I'm told there was a major run on the paper copies of famous inventions. It used to be one could enter the "stacks" and search through these old patents paper by paper.

They opened it up one day and folks who worked doing this for a living ran for the original copies of the famous ones, no doubt some of mine,  Ha.

I dumped all my patent plaques on my daughter when we moved, poor thing, and now she's trying to get rid of stuff for her move.  They are nice looking walnut plaques.  I told her to trash them.  Maybe the walnut would be nice for some wood worker.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2022, 08:25:05 AM
The oldest death sentence recorded is found in ancient Egypt. Found in the Amherst papyri, a teenaged male in 1500 B.C. is sentenced to kill himself by either poison or stabbing for practicing magic.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 07, 2022, 10:04:08 AM
Just because you can pull a quarter from someone's ear doesn't mean you should.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 07, 2022, 10:27:30 AM
Wonder how many times there were unfortunate belly landings? Tough spot to be in regardless specially on the long distance runs before the Mustang started chaperoning them
I've read of several incredibly sad cases in which the landing gear was unable to be deployed due to battle damage and an injured but still living gunner in one of those blisters was unable to get himself out.  Those guys unfortunately died in the belly landings.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2022, 10:24:41 AM
Historic Photographs

A German officer and an NCO wearing portable sound locating apparatae to detect enemy aircraft (this was a type of early radar). Western Front, 1917.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275458025_2063121700528236_7899499507249105352_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=E7CFuZ12XcIAX9mLBkv&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9-n8nYYmz3WVSLCjB9qlHSt8ObVPo844ChgbwxTNyfaA&oe=6232A8A6)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on March 12, 2022, 10:40:55 AM
reminds me of this

(https://i.imgur.com/31FvhmT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2022, 11:59:44 AM
Historic Photographs

A German officer and an NCO wearing portable sound locating apparatae to detect enemy aircraft (this was a type of early radar). Western Front, 1917.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275458025_2063121700528236_7899499507249105352_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=E7CFuZ12XcIAX9mLBkv&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9-n8nYYmz3WVSLCjB9qlHSt8ObVPo844ChgbwxTNyfaA&oe=6232A8A6)
Looks like an album cover, lol.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2022, 03:13:24 PM
Historic Photographs

A construction worker making preparations for the removal of the original Statue of Liberty torch in 1985. The old torch went on a tour of the US before it was moved to the Statue of Liberty Museum. Photo by Keith Meyers.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275491789_2063100807196992_6079546447873794786_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=TUN-qr6FqwMAX-E-9T8&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_sMjh0bJSkC8mSyvlcwyFzFgyv2Ij3QwpEm2_soTZ1lA&oe=62312392)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2022, 11:37:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/s55gSrJ.png)

First knonwn photo of a person, 1839 Paris.  Ten minute exposure.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2022, 12:00:18 PM
Semper Fi! The U.S. Marine that occasionally got into trouble and even once escaped from the WWII German POW camp Stalag Luft III (The Great Escape):
Steven T. McQueen had a rough childhood. Between two abusive stepfathers, an alcoholic mother who abandoned him, and growing up in a reform school, it’s no surprise the famous actor viewed the Marine Corps as a great escape from life’s hardships. At age 16, Steven McQueen moved to New York with his mother, where he met two merchant mariners. They convinced him to join the U.S. Merchant Marine, his first taste of service. At his first stop in the Dominican Republic, he quickly abandoned his post and started working in a brothel.
From there, McQueen drifted about, doing odd jobs such as lumberjacking in Canada or selling pens in Texas. He was eventually arrested for vagrancy in the deep south of the United States and forced to work 30 days on a chain gang.
In 1947, at age 17, McQueen received permission from his mother to join the Marine Corps. He went through basic training at Parris Island, South Carolina. Initially, he was promoted to private first class in an armored division, but had trouble with authority and was demoted to private no less than seven times. At one point, he went absent without leave to spend two weeks with his girlfriend and was confined to the brig for 41 days.
Once out of the brig while deployed to the Labrador Sea for amphibious training, his transport ship struck a sandbar, sending several of the tanks and their crews into icy waters. Without hesitating, McQueen dove into the sea and reportedly saved five Marines from drowning. rescued several men during a disastrous training exercise in the Arctic, he was given the honor of guarding President Harry Truman's yacht the USS Williamsburg, where he spent the rest of his career until leaving the Marines in 1950.
Despite his trouble adjusting to military life, he remembered the Marine Corps fondly, saying, "The Marines made a man out of me. I learned how to get along with others, and I had a platform to jump off of."


(https://i.imgur.com/H6U68Zu.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2022, 07:16:01 PM
Tested: 2006 Sports-Car World Cup (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a15390340/2006-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2006-ferrari-f430-2007-porsche-911-turbo-comparison-tests/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&fbclid=IwAR1N1-_l-j0bzwEvnw85qZN1Wyb2tEDWfr1PZiuFbMFnDzFp5XZ4yw4Y2m8)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 13, 2022, 11:32:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sNwcqQW.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2022, 04:11:14 PM
During the War of 1812, the British captured the United States capitol, Washington, DC. However, their occupation lasted just 26 hours due to a tornado that formed in the city and headed straight for the British on Capitol Hill.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2022, 05:22:05 PM
When explorer and geologist J.W. Powell traversed the country in the late 1870s, he confirmed the location of the 100th meridian. Noting the differences in climate between the western and eastern sides of the imaginary line, he proposed forming districts that would manage water and land based on the area's needs rather than on state borders. While his exploration was groundbreaking, his resource-management proposal was shot down in Congress.

Still, the 100th meridian has proved an accurate divide between the dry west and the humid east. The spot where the meridian passes through Cozad was also an important site on another history-making journey.

When the first transcontinental railroad was built in the 19th century, the goal set by Congress was to reach the 100th meridian in Nebraska.

That ambitious goal was achieved in October of 1866. The first passenger train riding from Greenwich in the east to the 100th meridian carried 250 politicians, railroad officials, reporters, and other notable passengers. A large celebration followed to commemorate this truly incredible feat of modern engineering.

A sign erected near the railroad tracks proudly proclaiming "100th Meridian - 247 Miles From Omaha" remained in place until the 1930s, at which time it was replaced by a stone monument donated by locals.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2022, 04:09:08 PM
HMS Hood, a 42,100-ton battlecruiser built at Clydebank, Scotland, was completed in March 1920. For more than two decades, she was the World's largest warship and, with her long, low hull and finely balanced silhouette, was to many the embodiment of "big-gun" era seapower. During her travels in European waters and far away, Hood actively represented Great Britain throughout her career. Her first cruise, in 1920, was to Scandanavia. The next year she went down to Gibraltar and Spain and in 1922 visited Brazil and the West Indies. After a brief call on Denmark and Norway in 1923, Hood was flagship on a eleven-month cruise around the World, accompanied by the smaller battlecruiser Repulse and a number of light cruisers. In 1925, she called on Lisbon to help commemorate Portugal's contributions to navigation and exploration.
For ten years after 1925, Hood was assigned to the Royal Navy's Home and Atlantic Fleets, operating primarily around Europe, with a visit to the West Indies in 1932. She served with the Mediterranean Fleet in 1936-39, protecting British interests during the Spanish Civil War.
- Peter Chen



Battlecruisers have an interesting, and somewhat inglorious history.  They were meant to be ships with battleship guns and cruiser armor and speed.  The US built two large cruisers in WW Two, named Alaska and Guam.  They had 12 inch main guns, smaller than battleship guns, and were considered superheavy cruisers instead of battlecruisers.

The HMS Hood of course suffered an untimely end.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 18, 2022, 04:25:36 PM
HMS Hood, a 42,100-ton battlecruiser built at Clydebank, Scotland, was completed in March 1920. For more than two decades, she was the World's largest warship and, with her long, low hull and finely balanced silhouette, was to many the embodiment of "big-gun" era seapower. During her travels in European waters and far away, Hood actively represented Great Britain throughout her career. Her first cruise, in 1920, was to Scandanavia. The next year she went down to Gibraltar and Spain and in 1922 visited Brazil and the West Indies. After a brief call on Denmark and Norway in 1923, Hood was flagship on a eleven-month cruise around the World, accompanied by the smaller battlecruiser Repulse and a number of light cruisers. In 1925, she called on Lisbon to help commemorate Portugal's contributions to navigation and exploration.
For ten years after 1925, Hood was assigned to the Royal Navy's Home and Atlantic Fleets, operating primarily around Europe, with a visit to the West Indies in 1932. She served with the Mediterranean Fleet in 1936-39, protecting British interests during the Spanish Civil War.
- Peter Chen



Battlecruisers have an interesting, and somewhat inglorious history.  They were meant to be ships with battleship guns and cruiser armor and speed.  The US built two large cruisers in WW Two, named Alaska and Guam.  They had 12 inch main guns, smaller than battleship guns, and were considered superheavy cruisers instead of battlecruisers.

The HMS Hood of course suffered an untimely end.
The USN has notably avoided referring to the Alaska Class as Battlecruisers and, as such, the US never built a Battlecruiser.

Battlecruisers, as you noted were conceptually supposed to be able to obliterate anything they couldn't outrun or outrun anything they couldn't obliterate. In practice they ended up being added to the battle line at Jutland and elsewhere with predictably catastrophic results.

Battlecruisers were conceived in an era when Battleships topped out around 20 kn and Cruisers were considerably faster. Post treaty BB's were considerably faster up to the 33 kn US Iowa Class. Thus Battlecruisers were outdated.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2022, 06:21:35 PM
After Joachim Neumann, a civil engineering student, escaped East Berlin by pretending to be a Swiss tourist, he spent the next five months digging a tunnel from West to East Berlin. He ultimately helped his girlfriend and 57 other people escape.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 06:50:08 PM
Napoleon attacked Russia on June 22.

Hitler attacked Russia on June 22.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2022, 07:51:08 PM
Hitler was weird that way

and in some other ways
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2022, 08:17:08 AM
Hitler had planned to attack earlier, though the weather may not have allowed it.  Mussolini invaded Greece, badly, and Hitler decided he needed to bail him out.  Then Yugoslavia was overthrown by a hostile government, so Hitler had to invade that to get to Greece, and did, but it put hours on his tanks to the point they needed time to be refitted.  Tank treads and engines don't last long, which is why they often are moved by transporters.

This may well have delayed his Barbarosa invasion by 2-3 weeks, which would have been pivotal in October.  It is however not clear if the mud had dried out by say June 1.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2022, 10:06:39 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275726940_5237244669673559_256446956294792655_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=UoPbofYupPIAX8mVx9F&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8rw3nWI0n0W-aOT-ayjEjPPNiXvZgvI4sX8fpIkMjs3A&oe=623B4BA7)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 20, 2022, 10:57:42 AM
Frat Boys,SMDH
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2022, 08:37:05 AM
In 1919, the first major aviation disaster in the United States occurred in Chicago. The Wingfoot Express blimp crashed into the Illinois Trust and Savings Bank, taking the lives of 13 people and injuring 27 more.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2022, 09:14:34 AM
March 21st

As Deputy Barney Fife, he was so inept he had to carry his bullet in his pocket... But Don Knotts was a veteran of the Second World War, who was awarded the World War II Victory Medal, Philippine Liberation Medal, Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal (with 4 bronze service stars), Army Good Conduct Medal, Marksman Badge (with Carbine Bar) and Honorable Service Lapel Pin. He was born on this day in 1924.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 23, 2022, 09:19:31 AM
On this date:
In 1775, Patrick Henry delivered an address to the Virginia Provincial Convention in which he is said to have declared, “Give me liberty, or give me death!”
In 1806, explorers Meriwether Lewis and William Clark, having reached the Pacific coast, began their journey back east.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2022, 11:12:49 AM
Historic Photographs

Huntington Beach, California, during the Oil boom of 1928.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277005807_2074836109356795_2127860781207917119_n.png?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=kSS_Yw3sdjkAX90hIZ1&_nc_oc=AQm0cC3Sv0seJoYt0wJAfLlcKmGdJ-E8yc5nnk7tK8V3TCbsATCf-ckipr7APH7hbNI&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9xQy8Qae0nnEJMcw7fN0wmemFY517rvXxJPBNuKIKMYQ&oe=6240FB50)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 23, 2022, 11:49:51 AM
Beautiful, nice place for Pelosi
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 23, 2022, 12:28:18 PM
I watched this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_a7Xp2jfkg) the other night and thought some people (mostly Michigan fans) would appreciate it due to the name of the ship.  

The United States Navy operated two Aircraft Carriers on the Great Lakes.  No, they were not for a planned invasion of Canada, eh!  The USS Wolverine and her sister ship the USS Sable were converted into carriers to train the thousands of carrier pilots (and aircrew and ground crew, etc) needed to man the actual fighting carriers in the Pacific and to a lesser extent in the Atlantic.  Both were converted from pleasure cruisers and operated out of Chicago (Navy Pier).  Famously, one of the pilots trained on the USS Wolverine was a young man from Connecticut named George Herbert Walker Bush.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 23, 2022, 12:40:26 PM
Lotta respect for Old Man George,not so much for his Kid and his cronie DICK
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2022, 05:30:33 PM
just gotta toss that dirty nickel in there, don'tcha?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2022, 06:04:05 PM
just gotta toss that dirty nickel in there, don'tcha?
LOL   thats funny coming from the King of the dirty nickel tossers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2022, 06:05:51 PM
He has a point...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 23, 2022, 06:21:50 PM
just gotta toss that dirty nickel in there, don'tcha?
Dubya & DICK didn't dabble in nickels
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 09:45:19 AM
22 March 1933 | The first official concentration camp was opened in Nazi Germany at the site of an unused gunpowder and munitions factory near the town of Dacchau 16 km from Munich. It was indented to hold political opponents of NDSAP.
The first commandant of Rudolf Höss began his career in SS-Totenkopfverbände in KL Dachau. He was assigned there in December 1934 & held the post of Blockführer. Another link between the two camps is the use of "Arbeit macht frei" slogan at their gates.
In the twelve years of its existence over 200.000 people from Nazi Germany and many countries of occupied Europe were imprisoned in Dachau and in the numerous sub camps. Around 41.500 were murdered.
On April 29 1945, American troops liberated the camp.


The death camps in Poland were far larger of course.


(https://i.imgur.com/ePcAJkT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2022, 09:50:03 AM
The youngest soldier in the Civil War was a 9-year-old boy from Mississippi. The oldest was an 80-year-old from Iowa. More than 10,000 soldiers serving in the Union Army were under 18 years old.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 24, 2022, 10:12:45 AM
22 March 1933 | The first official concentration camp was opened in Nazi Germany at the site of an unused gunpowder and munitions factory near the town of Dacchau 16 km from Munich. It was indented to hold political opponents of NDSAP.
The first commandant of Rudolf Höss began his career in SS-Totenkopfverbände in KL Dachau. He was assigned there in December 1934 & held the post of Blockführer. Another link between the two camps is the use of "Arbeit macht frei" slogan at their gates.
In the twelve years of its existence over 200.000 people from Nazi Germany and many countries of occupied Europe were imprisoned in Dachau and in the numerous sub camps. Around 41.500 were murdered.
On April 29 1945, American troops liberated the camp.

The death camps in Poland were far larger of course.
I actually went and saw Dachau when I was in Germany in 1989.  The Germans have basically no signage, it was HARD to find and I imagine that was not without reason.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 24, 2022, 10:22:30 AM
The youngest soldier in the Civil War was a 9-year-old boy from Mississippi. The oldest was an 80-year-old from Iowa. More than 10,000 soldiers serving in the Union Army were under 18 years old.
The number of casualties in the Civil War is staggering.  The two sides lost around 620,000 killed.  That is almost as many as the US lost in all the other wars it has ever been involved in combined.  Also, there is the issue of impact.  In WWII, for example, the US lost around 400,000 killed.  So it sounds like that is almost as many as the Civil War and it is but as a percentage it is vastly different:

Ie, the Civil War was seven times deadlier than WWII in terms of percentage of US population killed.  

Also consider it this way:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 10:46:28 AM
The number who died of disease in the CW was enormous, we did not have 620,000 "killed in battle".  The figure I hear for WW 2 was 292,000.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2022, 10:59:13 AM
Argentina was the first country to use fingerprinting in order to determine if a person was guilty of a crime. The first known example of fingerprinting occurred in June, 1892, when police used a bloody fingerprint left on a door to match Francisca Rojas to the killing of her two children.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2022, 11:10:10 AM
America’s Official Fur Trade Museum, The Museum Of The Fur Trade, Is Right Here In Nebraska
There’s no better way to learn about the past than by visiting a museum. Nebraska has many of them; in fact, it seems like there’s at least one museum in every town. There’s one in western Nebraska that’s full of fascinating, little-known history – and it’s the only one of its kind on the planet.

The Museum of the Fur Trade is located three miles east of Chadron in western Nebraska. The one-of-a-kind attraction opened in 1949 on the former site of the Bordeaux Trading Post, which was established in 1837.

https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/nebraska/museum-of-the-fur-trade-ne/?fbclid=IwAR0pq_EkOAaH6eBFNs8FOBZ871zStoMhoy-T7J9Fp2HkiyrzV6ObMacP49M (https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/nebraska/museum-of-the-fur-trade-ne/?fbclid=IwAR0pq_EkOAaH6eBFNs8FOBZ871zStoMhoy-T7J9Fp2HkiyrzV6ObMacP49M)

(https://img-aws.ehowcdn.com/700x/cdn.onlyinyourstate.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/60883883_10155930274911829_5948897607563608064_o-700x467.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 26, 2022, 11:53:10 AM
The earthquake in Lisbon, Portugal, in 1775 caused waves on the surface of Scotland’s Loch Ness, more than 1,240 miles (2,000 km) away.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2022, 09:56:55 AM
Because there is no gravity in space, there is no natural convection, which means body heat won’t rise off the skin. Because of this, the body will constantly perspire to cool itself but, unfortunately, the sweat won’t drip or evaporate—it will just build up.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on April 08, 2022, 10:23:23 AM
Because there is no gravity in space, there is no natural convection, which means body heat won’t rise off the skin. Because of this, the body will constantly perspire to cool itself but, unfortunately, the sweat won’t drip or evaporate—it will just build up.
thanks for putting that in my head
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 08, 2022, 01:41:15 PM
Because there is no gravity in space, there is no natural convection, which means body heat won’t rise off the skin. Because of this, the body will constantly perspire to cool itself but, unfortunately, the sweat won’t drip or evaporate—it will just build up.
Don't sweat the small stuff
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2022, 04:09:41 PM
Gravity permeates space, and evaporation does not hinge on convection.  Low Earth orbit is only 200 miles up, plenty of gravity there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2022, 04:09:25 PM
If you shoot say a cannon ball horizontal to the Earth's surface, it goes out and falls to the ground obviously.  If you shoot it faster, it goes further.  If you shoot it at around 17,500 mph, it goes out (assume no air) and falls just as the Earth's surface curves.

It's in "free fall".  Gravity keeps it from going on out into space and makes it curve, but it now conforms to the roundness of the Earth, and that is what it's like to be in orbit.  There is plenty of gravity around, but you are falling so you don't experience it.

At about 25,000 mph, you leave the Earth's gravitational well entirely and are headed out into the Solar System, somewhere.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 11, 2022, 06:26:44 PM
The earthquake in Lisbon, Portugal, in 1775 caused waves on the surface of Scotland’s Loch Ness, more than 1,240 miles (2,000 km) away.
There's a "yo mama" joke here...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2022, 08:57:48 AM
In 1956, John McCarthy invented the word "artificial intelligence."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2022, 09:19:40 AM
The earthquake in Lisbon, Portugal, in 1775 caused waves on the surface of Scotland’s Loch Ness, more than 1,240 miles (2,000 km) away.
I learned about this when we were in Lisbon last fall. Quite the tragedy. We went on a tour of the underground ruins, which they built on top of. Very interesting.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2022, 11:59:42 AM
Mayans used chocolate in baptisms and in marriage ceremonies. It was also sometimes used in the place of blood during ceremonies. Mayan emperors were often buried with jars of chocolate by their side.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 18, 2022, 12:07:27 PM
Herhsey's?Nestle's?Cadbury? Ghiraldi's? Poor Bastages never had a mallo cup
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 04:17:32 PM
On April 18, Gen. Joseph E. Johnston and Gen. William T. Sherman negotiated the largest surrender of the American Civil War. Roughly 90,000 Confederates in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida were to lay down their arms. The memorandum or basis of agreement issued on the 18th established an armistice while both sides sought approval for the agreement which provided, among other things, for the return of arms, re-establishment of federal courts, and granting of general amnesty to both soldiers and citizens. Secretary of War, William Stanton believed Sherman had gone too far in addressing civil matters and sent the generals back to the drawing board.

Sherman and Johnston reconvened on April 26 at the Bennett Place, and Gen. John M. Schofield drafted terms that closely resembled the Appomattox terms. Hostilities were to cease, each brigade could keep 1/7 of its small arms, the rest were to be deposited at their state capitols, all officers and men would be paroled upon taking a loyalty oath, soldiers were to retain their horses and private property, and the U.S. army would provide field, rail, and water transportation to the newly paroled troops. Sherman also furnished 250,000 rations for his former foes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2022, 01:29:11 PM
On April 17, 1783, during the American Revolution, in response to Spain’s decision to join the war on the American side, British Captain James Colbert launched a surprise assault on the Spanish post of Fort Carlos on the Arkansas River near present day Gillett, Arkansas.  This battle took place nearly two months after the Revolutionary War’s official end, but due to the long amount of time it took news to travel that far west, both sides knew nothing about the peace.

Colbert’s attack on Fort Carlos, the only Revolutionary War action to occur in the state of Arkansas, lasted nearly six hours. Colbert and his eighty-two men poured volley after volley of musketry into the fort.  The forty Spanish defenders and their Quapaw Indian allies stood strong, giving the British back all that they took. Eventually, after realizing that they would be unable to force the Spaniards to surrender, Colbert and his men were forced to retreat. Arkansas would later be ceded by Spain to France as part of the much larger Louisiana Territory, with France in turn selling the land to the U.S. Government in 1803 as part of the Louisiana Purchase.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2022, 02:43:59 PM
Well we should have just waited and took it,but France did LOTS for the good guys revolution,so the white wigs ponied up
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2022, 02:45:52 PM
At about 25,000 mph, you leave the Earth's gravitational well entirely and are headed out into the Solar System, somewhere.
That's 24,999 mph more than Bob Uecker stealing second
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2022, 02:50:23 PM
Bob had 6 SBs in the minors, zero in the majors.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2022, 02:54:48 PM
That's 24,999 mph more than Bob Uecker stealing attempting to steal second
FIFY
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2022, 10:46:12 AM
Yellowstone National Park in Wyoming sits on the site of an ancient supervolcano. It erupted around 2 million years ago, 1.3 million years ago, and 640,000 years ago. If it follows the same pattern, another eruption is due any time now.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2022, 08:45:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/AndJC9A.png)

Atomic bomb "Little Boy" in a bomb pit, ready to be loaded onto the B-29 bomber 'Enola Gay' on Tinian, Mariana Islands, on August 6, 1945.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2022, 08:58:29 AM
The gives one a good idea of the physical size of that bomb.  It's weight was around 10,000 pounds.  Only a B-29 could lift and deliver it any distance.  It's design was so simple it was never tested before use.  The Nagasaki bomb design was tested and was more complex in nature and relied on plutonium, an artificial element created at Hanford, WA.  This one was more powerful, weight about the same, dimensions different, called "Fat Boy".

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2022, 09:26:23 AM
On This Day - April 21, 1836 – During the Texan War for Independence, the Texas militia under Sam Houston launches a surprise attack against the forces of Mexican General Santa Anna along the San Jacinto River. With the rallying cry of, "Remember the Alamo!", the Mexicans were thoroughly routed and hundreds were taken prisoner, including General Santa Anna himself.
After gaining independence from Spain in the 1820s, Mexico welcomed foreign settlers to sparsely populated Texas, and a large group of Americans led by Stephen F. Austin settled along the Brazos River. The Americans soon outnumbered the resident Mexicans, and by the 1830s attempts by the Mexican government to regulate these semi-autonomous American communities led to rebellion. In March 1836, in the midst of armed conflict with the Mexican government, Texas declared its independence from Mexico. The Texas volunteers initially suffered defeat against the forces of Santa Anna–Sam Houston’s troops were forced into an eastward retreat, and the Alamo fell.
However, in late April, Houston’s army surprised a Mexican force at San Jacinto, and Santa Anna was captured, bringing an end to Mexico’s effort to subdue Texas. In exchange for his freedom, Santa Anna recognized Texas’s independence; although the treaty was later abrogated and tensions built up along the Texas-Mexico border. The citizens of the so-called Lone Star Republic elected Sam Houston as president and endorsed the entrance of Texas into the United States.
However, the likelihood of Texas joining the Union as a slave state delayed any formal action by the U.S. Congress for more than a decade. Finally, in 1845, President John Tyler orchestrated a compromise in which Texas would join the United States as a slave state. On December 29, 1845, Texas entered the United States as the 28th state, broadening the irrepressible differences in the U.S. over the issue of slavery and igniting the Mexican-American War.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2022, 09:57:11 AM
The Connecticut class of pre-dreadnought battleships were the penultimate class of the type built for the United States Navy. The class comprised six ships: Connecticut, Louisiana, Vermont, Kansas, Minnesota, and New Hampshire, which were built between 1903 and 1908. The ships were armed with a mixed offensive battery of 12-inch (305 mm), 8-inch (203 mm), and 7-inch (178 mm) guns. This arrangement was rendered obsolete by the advent of all-big-gun battleships like the British HMS Dreadnought, which was completed before most of the Connecticuts entered service.

During the American participation in World War I, the Connecticut-class ships were used to train sailors for an expanding wartime fleet. In late 1918, they began to escort convoys to Europe, and in September that year, Minnesota was badly damaged by a mine laid by the German U-boat SM U-117. After the war, they were used to bring American soldiers back from France and later as training ships. The 1922 Washington Naval Treaty, which mandated major reductions in naval weapons, cut the ships' careers short. Within two years, all six ships had been sold for scrap.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZKqknVi.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2022, 09:58:52 AM
The Dreadnought displaced 18,000 tons (more than 20,000 tons full load), was 526 feet (160 m) long, and carried a crew of about 800. Its four propeller shafts, powered by steam turbines instead of the traditional steam pistons, gave it an unprecedented top speed of 21 knots. Because recent improvements in naval gunnery had made it unnecessary to prepare for short-range battle, Dreadnought carried no guns of secondary calibre (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/calibre). Instead, it mounted a single-calibre main armament of 10 12-inch guns in five twin turrets. In addition, 24 3-inch quick-firing guns, 5 Maxim machine guns, and 4 torpedo (https://www.britannica.com/technology/torpedo) tubes were added for fighting off destroyers and torpedo boats.


The Dreadnought immediately made all preceding battleships obsolete, but by World War I (https://www.britannica.com/event/World-War-I) it was obsolescent itself, having been outclassed by faster “superdreadnoughts” carrying bigger guns. The Dreadnought’s only notable engagement of the war was the ramming and sinking of a German U-boat (https://www.britannica.com/technology/U-boat) near the Pentland Firth, Scotland, in March 1915. Placed in reserve in 1919, the ship (https://www.britannica.com/technology/ship) was sold for scrap the following year and broken up in 1923.

The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/editor/The-Editors-of-Encyclopaedia-Britannica/4419)This article was most recently revised and updated by Adam Augustyn (https://www.britannica.com/editor/Adam-Augustyn/6394).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 24, 2022, 02:48:54 PM
The gives one a good idea of the physical size of that bomb.  It's weight was around 10,000 pounds.  Only a B-29 could lift and deliver it any distance.  It's design was so simple it was never tested before use.  The Nagasaki bomb design was tested and was more complex in nature and relied on plutonium, an artificial element created at Hanford, WA.  This one was more powerful, weight about the same, dimensions different, called "Fat Boy".
Some revisionist brit on YT did a whole segment on how the RAF could get the job done if for some reason the USAF couldn't.Of course quite a few people i.e. pilots and war historians corrected his misconceptions.The guy is suppose to be a historian of some note but was steered out of his fallacies fairly fast.He was saying there were Lancaster crews standing by(BULLSHIT).Though the lanc was a great plane for the ETO and could carry more than 10,000 lbs it certainly didn't have the range,speed or ceiling to get away from the repercussion blast of the Bomb fast/far enough
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2022, 04:00:41 PM
A Lancaster might have gotten it to Berlin.  It had the lift capability.  Range would be marginal.  Obviously the B-29 was a state of the art bomber by 1945 despite numerous teething problems, or perhaps in part because of.  It's a hypothetical that means little, like the best fighter or tank of WW 2.

Avro Lancaster vs Boeing B-29 Superfortress (militaryfactory.com) (https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/compare-aircraft-results.php?form=form&aircraft1=234&aircraft2=82&Submit=Compare+Aircraft)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 24, 2022, 04:42:12 PM
The Dreadnought displaced 18,000 tons (more than 20,000 tons full load), was 526 feet (160 m) long, and carried a crew of about 800. 

Always thought that was a cool name.  I lived in Lakeland, FL from age 3-9 and we'd drive by the HS stadium's "Home of the Dreadnaughts" all the time.  Pretty legendary football program around the turn of the millennium, with numerous state championships around then.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2022, 04:48:59 PM
Yes, it's an intimidating term, I think.  It sounds evil.  The British dreadnaught changed the era.  Some later BBs are referred to as "super dreadnaughts" built closer to WW One. 

Some argue the Iowa class is more of a battlecruiser than battleship.  I don't get too hung up on such distinctions.

The Lexington and Yorktown were built on battlecruiser hulls.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2022, 09:50:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/hNfYAvS.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2022, 09:52:07 AM
what could go wrong??
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2022, 11:46:05 AM
and its still happening to this day
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2022, 01:55:44 PM
Check this guys site out a bunch of wild true stories click on his name then another screen appears with all the different segments
https://youtu.be/sx14YtiLFIM
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 26, 2022, 05:01:19 PM
Some revisionist brit on YT did a whole segment on how the RAF could get the job done if for some reason the USAF couldn't.Of course quite a few people i.e. pilots and war historians corrected his misconceptions.The guy is suppose to be a historian of some note but was steered out of his fallacies fairly fast.He was saying there were Lancaster crews standing by(BULLSHIT).Though the lanc was a great plane for the ETO and could carry more than 10,000 lbs it certainly didn't have the range,speed or ceiling to get away from the repercussion blast of the Bomb fast/far enough
If you want to learn more than you ever wanted to know about the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs and the Manhattan Project in general I highly recommend a trip to the Trinity Site (where they tested the first one on July 16,1945).  It is only open twice a year, something like the first Saturdays in April and October.  Anyway, I went once and they had a LOT of information.  It was quite fascinating.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 26, 2022, 05:04:10 PM
The Dreadnought displaced 18,000 tons (more than 20,000 tons full load), was 526 feet (160 m) long, and carried a crew of about 800. Its four propeller shafts, powered by steam turbines instead of the traditional steam pistons, gave it an unprecedented top speed of 21 knots. Because recent improvements in naval gunnery had made it unnecessary to prepare for short-range battle, Dreadnought carried no guns of secondary calibre (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/calibre). Instead, it mounted a single-calibre main armament of 10 12-inch guns in five twin turrets. In addition, 24 3-inch quick-firing guns, 5 Maxim machine guns, and 4 torpedo (https://www.britannica.com/technology/torpedo) tubes were added for fighting off destroyers and torpedo boats.


The Dreadnought immediately made all preceding battleships obsolete, but by World War I (https://www.britannica.com/event/World-War-I) it was obsolescent itself, having been outclassed by faster “superdreadnoughts” carrying bigger guns. The Dreadnought’s only notable engagement of the war was the ramming and sinking of a German U-boat (https://www.britannica.com/technology/U-boat) near the Pentland Firth, Scotland, in March 1915. Placed in reserve in 1919, the ship (https://www.britannica.com/technology/ship) was sold for scrap the following year and broken up in 1923.

The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/editor/The-Editors-of-Encyclopaedia-Britannica/4419)This article was most recently revised and updated by Adam Augustyn (https://www.britannica.com/editor/Adam-Augustyn/6394).
Your math is off where I bolded.  If it had five twin turrets that makes 10 guns.  It it had 12 guns in twin turrets then it must have had six turrets.  

I'll look it up . . .

Per wiki it was 10 guns in five twin turrets.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 26, 2022, 05:39:11 PM
Yes, it's an intimidating term, I think.  It sounds evil.  The British dreadnaught changed the era.  Some later BBs are referred to as "super dreadnaughts" built closer to WW One.

Some argue the Iowa class is more of a battlecruiser than battleship.  I don't get too hung up on such distinctions.

The Lexington and Yorktown were built on battlecruiser hulls.
The Iowa Class were generally referred to as Fast Battleships.  They were MUCH more well armored than a typical Battlecruiser.  

Off the top of my head simplified explanation of the terms:
Cruisers:
Cruisers were smaller and generally faster than Battleships.  The Washington Naval Treaty did not explicitly define "Cruisers" but they were de-facto defined because the Treaty limited the major ships (Battleships, Battlecruisers, and Aircraft Carriers) and the "other" were limited to not more than 10,000 tons each and with guns not larger than 8".  

Battleships:
Battleships were the heavyweight fighters.  They carried large guns and sufficient armor to stand up to hits from equally large opposing guns.  To wit, the concept of "balanced Battleship" existed even before Dreadnaught and demanded that a Battleship should have sufficient armor to withstand a hit from a gun equal to it's own.  They were huge, extremely well armed, and extremely well armored.  

Battlecruisers:
Battlecruisers were more-or-less a compromise between Battleships and Cruisers.  They had Battleship guns but only Cruiser Armor.  Ie, they were NOT a "balanced" ship and could NOT withstand hits from guns equal to their own.  However, they were MUCH faster than contemporary Battleships.  They had Cruiser speed.  The theory here was that Battlecruisers could outrun anything they couldn't pulverize and pulverize anything they couldn't outrun.  

Fast Battleships:
This was a much later innovation.  The Battleships of the WWI era could only make about 20 kn.  For example, the American Colorado Class had a top speed of 21 kn.  Three were completed shortly after WWI with the fourth (Washington) being scrapped in accordance with the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922.  The next class of US Battleships was the North Carolina Class which did not come into service until two decades later, just before WWII (the two ships were commissioned in April and May of 1941).  The North Carolina class had a top speed of 28 kn.  Top speeds of US BB's starting with Colorado:

Fast Battleships like the 33 kn Iowas effectively rendered all Battlecruisers obsolete but it wasn't possible to get that kind of speed along with large guns and sufficient armor on a Treaty-limited Battleship.  The South Dakota's more-or-less complied with the then existing treaties so they were limited to around 35,000 tons.  The Iowa's were fully post-treaty ships so they were built without regard to such limitations and displaced nearly 60,000 tons at full load (New Jersey actually did displace a full 60,000 in it's Vietnam era tour).  

The US laid down several Battlecruisers during WWI and, as you noted above, Lexington and Yorktown were converted from Battlecruisers to Aircraft Carriers during construction in order to comply with the Treaty.  The US also built the Iowa Class Fast Battleships and a rather curious class of "Large Cruisers" known as the Alaska Class.  The US Navy has consistently discouraged referring to the Alaska's as "Battlecruisers".  Also, the Alaska's were never named using the "CC" designation reserved for Battlecruisers but they also didn't get the "CA" used for cruisers.  Instead they were "CB-1, CB-2, and CB-3" (Alaska, Guam, and Hawaii).  Also note the names.  They were not named after states like Battleships nor after Cities like Cruisers.  Instead they were named after territories which seems like it fits between?  


The Alaska's were officially "Large Cruisers".  They displaced about 30,000 - 35,000 tons which is as large as Treaty Battleships (well, it would have been except that basically everybody was cheating during the treaty era it was just a question of by how much).  They had 12" guns so much smaller than contemporary BB's (16+) and armor somewhere between a Cruiser and a Battleship along with 33 kn speed.  

The Alaska's made very good Carrier escorts which was all that really mattered by the time they came online but it has often been pointed out that for the price of one Alaska Class Large Cruiser the US could have built several Baltimore Class Cruisers and as Carrier Escorts it is pretty hard to argue that one Alaska is better than three Baltimore's.  The Alaska's were designed to deal with Japanese ships that were planned (or believed to be planned) but by the time they were commissioned the Japanese Navy had been almost completely converted into Coral Reefs by US Carrier Aircraft so their intended use was gone before they were available.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2022, 05:39:25 PM
Your math is off where I bolded.  If it had five twin turrets that makes 10 guns.  It it had 12 guns in twin turrets then it must have had six turrets. 

I'll look it up . . .

Per wiki it was 10 guns in five twin turrets. 
He did say 10 12" guns not 12 guns
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 26, 2022, 10:15:31 PM
He did say 10 12" guns not 12 guns
Oops, I read it wrong 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 07:59:10 AM
The evolution of armor is fascinating to me.  The Musee des Blindes in Saumur, France, has lined up German panzers from prewar to near the end of the war.  This is about 1939 to 1944, just five years, and the increase in size and power was astonishing.  Germany started the war mostly with Panzer IIs, light tanks by any metric, and quite a few Czech tanks (that were better than Panzer IIs) and a relatively modest number of Panzer IIIs and Panzer IVs (short barreled, meant for infantry support).  

Folks criticize the US Sherman, but it was better than any of these, except the later model IIIs and upgunned IVs that came out about the same time.

As with naval guns, tank guns use the term caliber to mean ratio of barrel length to diameter at the breech.  A longer gun is going to be a more powerful gun, so a 75 mm/24 (below) caliber won't be nearly as powerful as a 75 mm/71 caliber.

(https://i.imgur.com/lo87G8w.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 08:25:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/a50Zgxj.jpg)

The closest is the Panzer II equipped with a 20 mm main gun, really intended to shoot very light tanks and infantry.  Going down the line is the III, then the IV with the very useful long 75 mm gun, and then the Tiger.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 08:26:06 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2B4x89v.jpg)

The Tiger shown here is next to the Panzer IV.  It had the famous 88 mm main gun, but was slow and lacked sloped armor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 08:28:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/1JrBszU.jpg)

The "Panther", with sloped armor, called a medium tank, with a very powerful 75 mm main gun.  It's design was somewhat taken from the Russian T-34, or at least it shared some basic features.  It was a very good tank overall but early models were very unreliable mechanically.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 08:30:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bYrqtW3.jpg)

A Panzerjager, of hunting Panzer, without the turret of course, we'd call it a TD or tank destroyer.  Very nasty piece of work.  The US TD had turrets and often were very fast and lightly armored, somewhat akin to a battle cruiser in concept.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 08:31:53 AM
The French had more, and heavier tanks, than the Germans in 1940.  A very credible tank is shown below, it had deficiencies of course.  The Somua S35 had a decent main gun and was fairly fast and decently armored.

(https://i.imgur.com/tmYCyPN.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 08:44:32 AM
I guess I tanked this thread, I'll leave you with this:

(https://i.imgur.com/9ZQ9Pra.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2022, 09:54:43 AM
The "Elephant's Foot" is an extremely radioactive material formed during the Chernobyl accident. When the foot first formed, exposure to it for just 60 seconds would kill someone. Now, 500 seconds is the lethal time. It will remain radioactive for over 100,000 years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 10:02:03 AM
Chernobyl's Elephant's Foot Is a Toxic Mass of Corium | HowStuffWorks (https://science.howstuffworks.com/chernobyl-elephants-foot.htm)

(https://i.imgur.com/1AMdcnH.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2022, 10:13:31 AM
so, I'd guess that dude's suit wasn't enough protection
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 10:14:33 AM
It would help some, along with the respirator, if he didn't stay long.

I had never heard of this before.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2022, 10:50:38 AM
Aviation History, Speed Edition: Meet The 5 Fastest Planes Ever

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/04/aviation-history-speed-edition-meet-the-5-fastest-planes-ever-pictures/ (https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/04/aviation-history-speed-edition-meet-the-5-fastest-planes-ever-pictures/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2022, 11:57:11 AM
The evolution of armor is fascinating to me.  The Musee des Blindes in Saumur, France, has lined up German panzers from prewar to near the end of the war.  This is about 1939 to 1944, just five years, and the increase in size and power was astonishing.  
Agreed, comparing at any of the warring nations primary tanks in 1939 to their main tanks in 1945 is astonishing.  
Folks criticize the US Sherman, but it was better than any of these, except the later model IIIs and upgunned IVs that came out about the same time.
I think a lot of the criticism of the Sherman is due to comparing it to late-war German Panthers and Tigers.  As you pointed out it was as good as anything the Germans had when it was initially produced.  

Late in the war the US also produced improved tanks but they only saw limited action because there were so many Shermans already in use and also because by that time the main "tank killer" for the US was no longer a tank or even a tank destroyer but rather a P47.  
A Panzerjager, of hunting Panzer, without the turret of course, we'd call it a TD or tank destroyer.  Very nasty piece of work.  The US TD had turrets and often were very fast and lightly armored, somewhat akin to a battle cruiser in concept.
Tank destroyers are nearly forgotten because, as it turned out, tanks needed to be able to fight other tanks.  That wasn't the initial theory.  The initial theory was that tanks would be for infantry support and destroying tanks was a completely separate function which called for a completely separate machine, the tank destroyer.  
The French had more, and heavier tanks, than the Germans in 1940.  A very credible tank is shown below, it had deficiencies of course.  The Somua S35 had a decent main gun and was fairly fast and decently armored.
This point about the French having more and heavier tanks than the Germans in 1940 is something that few people realize.  When we think of WWII we tend to think of the Germans and their "blitzkreig" so we picture German tanks.  

The difference wasn't so much equipment where the French were not lacking as it was doctrine/tactics where the Germans were first to realize that tanks could be massed and used to punch through the enemy's lines and surround enemy units.  French (and basically all other) tanks were instead parceled out as "infantry support".  Thus French tanks vastly outnumbered German tanks at every point along the front except the few points where the German tanks were massed and, as it turned out, those were the only points that mattered.  


Similarly, the Japanese were the first to really mass carriers.  The world's other major Navies (which basically just means the USN and the RN) mostly treated Carriers as support/spotting for the Battleships rather than seeing them and treating them as the focal point of a fleet operation.  This facilitated Japan's incredible success in the six months starting with Pearl Harbor but it ended at Midway when they ran into a USN that was using similar tactics/doctrine but doing it with equipment that was vastly more survivable.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:00:07 PM
The Japanese failed to use the superior range of their naval aircraft to advantage, often as not, I think.  A few times the winds were against them.

They could launch at extreme range and close the distance if the winds were favorable, and if they knew where our fleet was.  They did extremely well in night fighting in 1942-3 with their torpedo.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2022, 12:19:33 PM
The Japanese failed to use the superior range of their naval aircraft to advantage, often as not, I think.  A few times the winds were against them.
Well . . . the tactical success of the "Hawaii Operation" as they called it was due in large part to the phenomenal range of the Zero.  American reconnaissance flights out of Hawaii were fundamentally insufficient because the range of the Zeros allowed the Japanese Carriers to launch at dawn from a position further away than the reconnaissance flights had been planned based on.  

I think the bigger problem for the Japanese was that the long range of their aircraft came with a price and once guys like Jimmy Thatch figured out how to leverage that price against the Japanese they were in big trouble.  

The price of range:
Aircraft design like most engineering is a series of trade offs.  You can increase range by doing things such as decreasing weight and increasing fuel capacity.  The Japanese decreased weight by omitting armor and they increased fuel capacity by omitting self-sealing fuel tanks.  That gave them great range and also very good speed despite the Zero being powered by a much less powerful engine than even contemporary American fighters in 1941.  American pilots eventually learned that Zeros couldn't follow them in a full power dive because the nimble and light-weight Zeros simply were not strong enough to survive at those speeds.  American pilots also learned that while the Zero was very well armed it was almost completely unarmored and lacked self-sealing tanks so if you could line up a shot at it, it didn't take much to destroy it.  

One major mistake by the US was failing to utilize reports from Chennault's flying tigers who had already learned these things about the Zero BEFORE Pearl Harbor.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2022, 12:21:08 PM
They could launch at extreme range and close the distance if the winds were favorable, and if they knew where our fleet was.  They did extremely well in night fighting in 1942-3 with their torpedo.
The American torpedo's of the early portion of the war are a flat out embarrassment that got a LOT of Americans killed. 

Japanese night-fighting prowess was so good that the US didn't finally catch up until the advent of fully radar-aimed guns. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:24:04 PM
I dimly recall that the Flying Tigers rarely if ever combatted Zeros.  That could be wrong.

Obviously the F-6F eliminated most Zero advantages.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:25:24 PM
My Dad was radar operator on a B-24 in the SWPOA.  He told me his radar could be slaved to the bomb release and when a certain line on his scope crossed center, the bombs would be released in a certain sequence against enemy shipping at night.  It sounded pretty advanced to me.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 03:16:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/oZfH20T.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 06:23:59 PM
The largest non nuclear weapon of WW2 was placed on display in front of RAF Scampton’s main gate. 15 years after it had been proudly placed on display, it was discovered to be still fully packed with its 6.5 tons of explosives.

The Grand Slam was a 22,000 lb earthquake bomb used by RAF Bomber Command against strategic targets during the Second World War. It was the most powerful non-atomic bomb used in the war.

Although many articles have been written about this incident, most fail to mention that the bomb was in fact "live" but not armed. The bomb would have only been armed prior to loading on a Lancaster. Although less likely to detonate unexpectedly, it is not advisable to place 6.5 tons of explosives on public display...

Had the bomb guarding the gate at RAF Scampton, known as "10 ton Tess" gone off, the entire RAF base , as well as most of the northern part of the City of Lincoln, would have been destroyed.


(https://i.imgur.com/DZCpwF0.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2022, 06:27:50 PM
I dimly recall that the Flying Tigers rarely if ever combatted Zeros.  That could be wrong.

Obviously the F-6F eliminated most Zero advantages.
I can't find it off-hand, but I read somewhere that Chennault's Flying Tigers had encountered enough Zeros such that they had a pretty good idea of their characteristics and that Chennault had reported same back to higher-ups in the US but it basically got lost in the bureaucracy in part because Chennault was Army and it was the Navy that actually needed the information.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2022, 06:30:01 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/oZfH20T.png)
Caption?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2022, 06:30:52 PM
My Dad was radar operator on a B-24 in the SWPOA.  He told me his radar could be slaved to the bomb release and when a certain line on his scope crossed center, the bombs would be released in a certain sequence against enemy shipping at night.  It sounded pretty advanced to me.
I'm guessing that was pretty late in the war?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 06:31:21 PM
Union Army under Sherman deploys F-14s in first ground attack missions around Atlanta 1864.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 06:36:21 PM
I'm guessing that was pretty late in the war?
It was 1943-1944, so pretty early.  He flew anti-sub missions out of Langley before they deployed.  Their first base was Guadalcanal.

SB-24 Snooper Aircraft (narkive.com) (https://rec.aviation.military.narkive.com/9UiIcrUv/sb-24-snooper-aircraft)


(https://i.imgur.com/A5ZR0ZP.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 06:49:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/YJ2bkHN.jpg)

My Dad and the crew.  They were all killed in the crash save three.  My Dad was the oldest of the bunch at 25-6.  His shirt is hanging on the plane to disguise a radar antenna that could not be photographed.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 07:22:47 PM
Union Army under Sherman deploys F-14s in first ground attack missions around Atlanta 1864.
Sherman could have used those F-14s
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2022, 08:21:39 PM
Union Army under Sherman deploys F-14s in first ground attack missions around Atlanta 1864.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FqeA0jZAlsCHAI%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
No wonder your Civil War Novel didn't sell J/K
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2022, 08:26:52 PM
Sherman could have used those F-14s
Bragg/Johnson/Hood could have used them more
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 28, 2022, 07:42:45 AM
This was a heckuva bomb in its day.

(https://i.imgur.com/CSni1b2.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2022, 08:40:57 AM
On the morning of September 20, 1863, the men of the 42nd Indiana rushed up LaFayette Road, and filed into line on the east side of McDonald Field, across from where the Chickamauga Battlefield Visitor Center now stands, and faced into the woods mere moments before their line was overwhelmed by the advance of General John C. Breckinridge's Confederate division.
Fifty-three men of the 42nd were captured and soon found their way into the Confederate prison system, initially being sent to Danville, Virginia, then being transferred to Andersonville when it opened in early 1864. Seventeen members of Company A, from Vanderburg County, Indiana, among them.  However, over the next few months that number dwindled as Andersonville proved to be the deadliest acreage of the American Civil War, taking six of Company A.  With the end of the war, the three survivors found themselves in Vicksburg, Mississippi, being packed aboard the Steamboat Sultana with around 2,100 recently released POWs.
The men were cramped for space as the boat was designed to hold only 376 people. Grossly overpacked, the ship departed Vicksburg on the night of April 24. Around 2 am, on April 27, just a short distance north of Memphis, Tennessee, the overstrained boilers exploded, turning the ship into a roaring inferno. It became the worst maritime disaster in American History and second worst explosion (only the destruction of the Twin Towers on 9/11 resulted in more deaths). One thousand seven hundred men died as a result.
Of the Company A men, only Private William McFarland survived. He later recounted, "I seemed to be dreaming and could hear some one saying, 'there isn't any skin left on their bodies.'  I awoke with a start and the next moment the boat was on fire and all was as light as day.  The wildest confusion followed.  Some spring into the river at once, others were killed, and I could fear the groans of the dying above the roar of the flames...I was on the hurricane deck, clear aft.  This part of the boat was jammed with me.  I saw the pilot house and hundreds of them sink through the roof into the flames, at which juncture I sprang overboard into the river." 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 28, 2022, 10:50:11 AM
Bragg/Johnson/Hood could have used them more
I was thinking the same thing.  The battle worked out pretty well for General Sherman without any F14's.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 28, 2022, 10:52:08 AM
On the morning of September 20, 1863, the men of the 42nd Indiana rushed up LaFayette Road, and filed into line on the east side of McDonald Field, across from where the Chickamauga Battlefield Visitor Center now stands, and faced into the woods mere moments before their line was overwhelmed by the advance of General John C. Breckinridge's Confederate division.
Fifty-three men of the 42nd were captured and soon found their way into the Confederate prison system, initially being sent to Danville, Virginia, then being transferred to Andersonville when it opened in early 1864. Seventeen members of Company A, from Vanderburg County, Indiana, among them.  However, over the next few months that number dwindled as Andersonville proved to be the deadliest acreage of the American Civil War, taking six of Company A.  With the end of the war, the three survivors found themselves in Vicksburg, Mississippi, being packed aboard the Steamboat Sultana with around 2,100 recently released POWs.
The men were cramped for space as the boat was designed to hold only 376 people. Grossly overpacked, the ship departed Vicksburg on the night of April 24. Around 2 am, on April 27, just a short distance north of Memphis, Tennessee, the overstrained boilers exploded, turning the ship into a roaring inferno. It became the worst maritime disaster in American History and second worst explosion (only the destruction of the Twin Towers on 9/11 resulted in more deaths). One thousand seven hundred men died as a result.
Of the Company A men, only Private William McFarland survived. He later recounted, "I seemed to be dreaming and could hear some one saying, 'there isn't any skin left on their bodies.'  I awoke with a start and the next moment the boat was on fire and all was as light as day.  The wildest confusion followed.  Some spring into the river at once, others were killed, and I could fear the groans of the dying above the roar of the flames...I was on the hurricane deck, clear aft.  This part of the boat was jammed with me.  I saw the pilot house and hundreds of them sink through the roof into the flames, at which juncture I sprang overboard into the river." 
The Sultana sinking was just incredibly sad.  All of those POW's finally released at the end of the war and then they drowned or burned to death in an overloaded steamboat.  I saw a show about it, the river has changed course since 1865 and the site of the sinking is now a field.  They were trying to excavate the remains of the ship.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2022, 12:32:37 PM
https://douglascountygensoc.org/photos002.html
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 28, 2022, 04:44:39 PM
https://douglascountygensoc.org/photos002.html
The photo of the Bonnie and Clyde car reveals that they didn't want to leave any doubts.  Based on the number of holes in the driver's door, Clyde Barrow must have looked like swiss cheese when he got to the Coroner.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2022, 07:57:45 PM
Gettysburg was the largest battle ever fought in North America. It’s victor, General Meade, was born in Spain.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 01, 2022, 10:02:46 PM
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - - Socrates
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 01, 2022, 10:19:13 PM
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - - Socrates
"and who decides which is which" - - longhorn320
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 02, 2022, 12:04:01 AM
The Mystery of the Puffer Fish Helmets of Kiribati

This ceremonial headwear was a cultural touchstone before it became a colonial curiosity.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/puffer-fish-armor (https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/puffer-fish-armor)

[img width=774.8 height=937]https://img.atlasobscura.com/xnseg01vE-wBv5Kwn1Ud0y-4dMSlPXQAVt9s7Lzhxmk/rt:fit/w:1280/q:81/sm:1/scp:1/ar:1/aHR0cHM6Ly9hdGxh/cy1kZXYuczMuYW1h/em9uYXdzLmNvbS91/cGxvYWRzL2Fzc2V0/cy83YjJlYjU3Zi0y/NmJjLTRlNjgtYWM1/NC03MWYxYzZkNDM1/NTMwMTdlOWNlOTE3/NTIwM2Q5NDlfTXVz/ZXVtIG9mIEFyY2hh/ZW9sb2d5IGFuZCBB/bnRocm9wb2xvZ3lf/UHVmZmVyIGZpc2gg/YXJtb3IuanBn.jpg[/img]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 08:56:36 AM
159 YEARS AGO
Night of May 1, 1863
Battle of Chancellorsville
On the evening of May 1, Robert E. Lee and "Stonewall" Jackson hatched one of the boldest schemes in military history. Hunched over maps beside a small fire, the two generals plotted how to destroy the Union army, now entrenched around Chancellorsville. The solution came when Confederate cavalryman General J.E.B. Stuart reported that the Union right flank lay unprotected.
During the night, with the help of local residents, Lee and Jackson mapped a secure route across the front of the Union army to the Federal right flank. Jackson proposed taking 30,000 men to assail the Union army from the west. That would leave Lee with just 15,000 men to distract and hold in place the 75,000-man Union army in front of Chancellorsville. Dividing his outnumbered army invited destruction, but success promised dramatic victory. Lee gave his assent.
To reach the Union army's right flank, Jackson would have to march his corps twelve miles over narrow, unpaved roads. The general hoped to have his men moving by dawn on May 2, but he got an unusually late start. It was past 7 a.m. before his troops left their camps on the Orange Plank Road and passed this point on the first leg of their journey.
Jackson rode near the head of the marching column. His face appeared flushed, and his eyes flashed in anticipation of the coming conflict. When he reached the intersection, he dismounted and spoke with Generals Lee, A.P. Hill, and J.E.B. Stuart. The informal council lasted but a few minutes. Jackson then pointed toward the head of his moving column and galloped off. It was the last time that he and Lee would ever meet.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 08:58:33 AM
Lee divided his army twice into three portions while facing an opponent much superior in numbers, but the terrain favored Lee, the area is called "The Wilderness".

Hooker in command of the Union Army was mostly confused and befuddled and thought reports of Jackson's flanking move was Lee retreating, he thought he had won without much fighting, so he stayed in place.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 11:59:35 AM
Why did the SR-71 Have to Refuel Right After Take-off?

“Many people believe we refueled after takeoff because the aircraft leaked fuel so profusely that we needed to fuel up quickly,” says Col. Richard H. Graham. “We had to refuel right after takeoff for only one reason, and it wasn’t because we leaked JP-7 fuel on the ground. Yes, the plane does leak fuel, but not enough to require refueling after takeoff.
“The JP-7 fuel reaches temperatures well over 300 degrees F. during Mach 3 cruise. , making the fumes in each of the six fuel tanks very volatile and potentially explosive. The metal skin of the aircraft approaches 400 degrees F., adding to the volatility of the fuel inside the tanks. One of our aircraft limitations was a maximum speed of Mach 2.6 without an inert atmosphere inside the fuel tanks.
“The aircraft had three liquid nitrogen Dewar flasks containing 260 liters of liquid nitrogen, located in the nose wheel well. The only way to ensure a 100 percent inert atmosphere in each fuel tank was to refuel the plane inflight completely full of JP-7, allowing ambient air in each fuel tank to vent overboard. Once full of fuel, gaseous nitrogen would now dominate each fuel tank’s empty space above as it burned off JP-7. The nitrogen gas pressurized each fuel tank to 1.5 psi above ambient pressure and inerts the space above the heated fuel to prevent autogenous ignition. This is why we refueled after takeoff."
"Then we could safely accelerate beyond Mach 2.6.” “There was one other way of achieving tank inerting, called a Yo-Yo.  but this was a maintenance nightmare. A few of our missions required the SR-71 to accelerate to Mach 3+ right after takeoff with a 65,000-pound fuel load. The Yo-Yo procedure had the crew chief completely refuel the plane to full tanks of 80,000 pounds of fuel. Then, with the nitrogen pressurization system working, they de-fueled 15,000 pounds of JP-7, ending up with a 65,000-pound fuel load and a plane that was capable of going immediately to Mach 3+. Refueling the SR 71 took about 15 minutes or more but sometimes it seems like an eternity. Being assigned to the KC 135Q you did not have to be on alert all the time like other SAC tankers. The crew of the SR 71 fondly remembers the crew members of the KC 135Q for being vigilant about keeping them safe. Thank you. Information was found on the website the
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 02, 2022, 12:13:00 PM
Jackson rode near the head of the marching column. His face appeared flushed, and his eyes flashed in anticipation of the coming conflict. When he reached the intersection, he dismounted and spoke with Generals Lee, A.P. Hill, and J.E.B. Stuart. The informal council lasted but a few minutes. Jackson then pointed toward the head of his moving column and galloped off. It was the last time that he and Lee would ever meet.
Lee stated - "he has lost his left arm but i have lost my right"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 03, 2022, 08:50:39 AM
Traditional Bedouin tents are made out of black goat hair. The Bedouin term for tent is buryuut hajar, which literally means "house of hair."

Dee Snider
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2022, 07:51:53 PM
158 years ago today in 1864, Robert E Lee in his first encounter with Ulysses S Grant personally rallies his men in the Battle of the Wilderness, holding off the Federal army and forcing them to disengage the next morning.
Grant would be the 6th commanding general to face Lee. The numbers and supplies would be in Grant’s favor, however Lee had a determined veteran army holding defensive positions in terrain they were familiar with. The battlefield would be a dense woods with tiny roads and a few pockets of clearings for farms. On the first day of the battle, the rebels managed to hold off the Federals and hope for much needed reinforcements to arrive the next morning. The woods caught fire and burned throughout the night, consuming many wounded men on both sides who could not escape the flames. Grant is reported in some of his staff’s memoirs to have wept the night after the battle, however he would wake up the next day determined to renew the attack.
On the 2nd day of the battle, the Federals were about to break through the center of the rebel position when Robert E Lee personally led a Texan brigade to hold the position in a famously recorded incident:
“Scarce had we moved a step, when Gen. Lee, in front of the whole command, raised himself in his stirrups, uncovered his grey hairs, and with an earnest, yet anxious voice, exclaimed above the din and confusion of the hour, "TEXANS ALWAYS MOVE THEM!”...never before in my lifetime or since, did I ever witness such a scene as was enacted when Lee pronounced these words, with the appealing look that he gave. A yell rent the air that must have been heard for miles around…”
Lee led 800 men across Widow Tapp’s field into a clearing that the Federal troops were marching on. Lee was spurring on his horse and encouraging the men to engage when the Texans noticed their general's foolhardy intention to remain with them as bullets whizzed by.  Alarmed for his safety the men began to repeatedly shout at the top of their lungs "LEE TO THE REAR!” One man ran up and grabbed his horse's reins as others personally pleaded “Go back, General Lee, go back!" The Texan general then approached Lee and helped him regain his senses to not risk his life. The men made way for Lee as he rode back through the cheering rebel troops.
Of the 800 soldiers who charged with Lee, all but 250 of them would be killed or wounded. But their sacrifice would delay the Federals long enough for additional reinforcements to stabilize their position.
By time nightfall came, the Federal army failed to gain any significant positions. Like many of their previous encounters with Lee, the Army of the Potomac woke up the next morning on May 8th expecting to retreat towards Washington D.C.  However, unlike his predecessors, Grant was not going to disengage after one bloody nose with Lee. To his cheering troops, Grant continued to march his army South and would fight continually over the next 5 weeks in what would become known as the Overland Campaign.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2022, 07:55:29 AM
The first drive-in movie theater opened in 1933 in Camden, New Jersey, the hometown of the young man who first came up with the idea.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 07, 2022, 07:58:28 AM
Traditional Bedouin tents are made out of black goat hair. The Bedouin term for tent is buryuut hajar, which literally means "house of hair."

Dee Snider
Is that that  guy in Twisted Sister?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2022, 08:05:14 AM
(https://www.assignmentx.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/29_DeeSniderAND_SS_MG_7958.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 07, 2022, 08:48:33 AM
That Chic looks real happy - does she golf with you?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2022, 08:52:06 AM
Stuffed golf balls in her lips?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2022, 08:52:32 AM
and her bra
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2022, 08:52:41 AM
FORE!!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 08, 2022, 08:44:42 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279749471_547900373601018_8264389784167566498_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=n_1-0iO0Z8UAX88Moqm&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_Y-BMdB9BD32m-VOU4OTjPVuCWpCJFxIQTtoNLVtMbPA&oe=627CBCC5)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 08, 2022, 08:53:06 AM
Semper Fi!
Gerald Tommaso DeLouise (born April 30, 1940), DeLouise served a tour of duty in the United States Marine Corps from 1957 to 1959. While in the Marine Corps, he won 32 of 34 boxing bouts. He later became a professional boxer and compiled a 17–0 record under three aliases.


DeLouise is best known by his acting name Burt Young and his role as Paulie in the Rocky films.

(https://i.imgur.com/ggNJJGi.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 08, 2022, 09:03:40 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QGVfJrq.png)

1955
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 09, 2022, 09:00:57 AM
Kentucky was originally part of Virginia, but on June 1, 1792, Virginia gave Kentucky permission to break off and become the 15th state of the United States.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 09, 2022, 09:05:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/oPklU96.png)

Stardate 0141.7: after almost 200 years of successful service, in the Terran year 2155 it was decided to once again upgrade the engines in the B-52H to ensure many further decades of operations. Block 117-85 specifications skipped completely over the previous plan to replace each dual-engine pod with single turbofans and instead removed the wing pylons completely, installing a pair of new space/warp propulsion units designed for a future heavy cruiser class. Rumors swirled that the BUFFs were so good at their jobs that the Constitution class was close to outright cancelation, but in the end the demand for better crew quarters and replicators won out. BUFFs remained in active service until well past the end of the Dominion War, and served valiantly at the Battle of Wolf 359.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 09, 2022, 09:07:23 AM
future history???
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 09, 2022, 11:58:30 AM
youre doing it again

no worky
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2022, 03:17:48 PM
Why historians believe Cinco de Mayo prevented the Confederacy's win in the Civil War

https://www.insider.com/how-cinco-de-mayo-prevented-the-confederacys-win-in-the-civil-war-2022-5 (https://www.insider.com/how-cinco-de-mayo-prevented-the-confederacys-win-in-the-civil-war-2022-5)

French Emperor Napoleon III had planned to trade weapons for cotton with Confederate states during France's invasion of Mexico.

However, Mexico's resolve at the Battle of Puebla in 1862 prevented France from supplying weapons to the Confederacy during the Civil War.

France retreated to Veracruz for a year giving the Union Army enough time to rack up victories against the Confederacy and end the war in 1865.


On May 5, 1862, the Mexican army defeated the French in the Battle of Puebla. This prevented French Emperor Napoleon III from supplying weapons to the Confederacy during the Civil War. Napoleon III had planned to trade weapons for cotton with the Confederate states during France's invasion of Mexico. But upon arriving at combat, the French found that they were unprepared to battle the resolve of the Mexican army.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 12, 2022, 06:54:04 PM
Kentucky was originally part of Virginia, but on June 1, 1792, Virginia gave Kentucky permission to break off and become the 15th state of the United States.
You sure you wanna do that?
Sure, why not?
Ha, there's all that coal there!
What's coal?
.....
....well, uh....not a fan of fried chicken?
What's that?
.....drink bourbon? 
Huh?
.
Never mind, just let 'em go!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2022, 10:53:55 PM
Ludolph van Ceulen (1540-1610) spent most of his life calculating the first 36 digits of pi (which were named the Ludolphine Number). According to legend, these numbers were engraved on his now lost tombstone.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2022, 01:00:18 PM
The story of bourbon is pretty interesting, I think, and a bit weird.  It's a French surname of course applied to a very typically American liquor.

And there are no distilleries in Bourbon County, KY today, the seat of which is a town called Paris.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2022, 04:27:25 PM
Soviet troops totaling about one million men attacked Finland on several fronts. The heavily outnumbered Finns put up a skillful and effective defense that winter, and the Red Army (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Red-Army) made little progress. In February 1940, however, the Soviets used massive artillery (https://www.britannica.com/technology/artillery) bombardments to breach (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/breach) the Mannerheim Line (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Mannerheim-Line) (the Finns’ southern defensive barrier stretching across the Karelian Isthmus (https://www.britannica.com/place/Karelian-Isthmus)), after which they streamed northward across the isthmus to the Finnish city of Viipuri (Vyborg (https://www.britannica.com/place/Vyborg)). Unable to secure help from Britain (https://www.britannica.com/topic/history-of-United-Kingdom) and France (https://www.britannica.com/topic/history-of-France), the exhausted Finns made peace (the Treaty of Moscow) on Soviet terms on March 12, 1940, agreeing to the cession of western Karelia (https://www.britannica.com/place/Karelia) and to the construction of a Soviet naval base on the Hanko Peninsula.

Having approached Germany without reaching a formal alliance, Finland allowed German troops transit through the country after the outbreak of war between Germany and the Soviet Union in June 1941. The Finns then joined the fight against the Soviets, undertaking the “War of Continuation.” An armistice (https://www.britannica.com/topic/armistice-law) signed on September 19, 1944, effectively concluded that conflict between the Soviet Union and Finland, contingent (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contingent) on Finnish recognition of the Treaty of Moscow (https://www.britannica.com/event/Treaty-of-Moscow-1921) and the evacuation of German troops (who refused to leave). The formal end of the Soviet-Finnish conflict came with the signing of a peace treaty in Paris on February 10, 1947.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2022, 07:17:21 PM
Nowadays he is not well remembered, but in his time Alexander Humboldt was perhaps the most famous and widely-admired man in the world. A man of extraordinary genius who made ground-breaking discoveries in a wide range of scientific fields, Humboldt was best known as a naturalist, explorer, and world traveler. Prussian by birth, Humboldt spoke and wrote in several languages and lived for decades in Paris. Equally at ease lecturing in a prestigious European university, or trekking through a South American jungle, across the world Humboldt was regarded as the ideal modern man—a cosmopolitan polymath.

Humboldt had a special affinity for America and the ideals of the young republic (he once said that he considered himself “half American”), and Americans returned it in their admiration of him. Dozens of towns, counties and geographic features across America and named for Humboldt and the territory that came to be called Nevada was nearly named “Humboldt” instead.
Humboldt and Thomas Jefferson were mutual admirers. In 1804 Humboldt traveled to Washington to meet Jefferson, much to their mutual delight, with President Jefferson taking the opportunity to consult with Humboldt regarding America’s natural borders and to solicit his advice on the Louisiana territory.
There are more species of animals and plants named for Humboldt than for any other person. Among them are the Humboldt squid, the Humboldt penguin, the Humboldt hummingbird, the Humboldt skunk, the Humboldt orchid—the list goes on and on.
When Humboldt died at age 89, his loss was grieved across the world. In the United States, hundreds of thousands of people turned out for memorial services in his honor.
Alexander Von Humboldt died in Berlin on May 6, 1859, one hundred sixty-three years ago today.
The portrait is by Charles Willson Peale from 1805, when Humboldt was 35 years old. He sat for the portrait in 1804, during his visit to meet Thomas Jefferson. Humboldt helped revived Peale’s flagging career, and he was one of many American artists and writers inspired and encouraged by Humboldt (including, among many others, Thoreau, Poe, and the landscape painter Frederick Edwin Church).

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2022, 08:54:12 AM
Explorer Roy Chapman Andrews found the first dinosaur nest known to science in 1923 in the Gobi Desert of Mongolia. Before he found the nest, scientists were unsure how dinosaur babies were born.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 15, 2022, 07:34:11 PM
The Top 10 Largest Nuclear Explosions, Visualized

(https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Top-10-Largest-Nuclear-Explosions.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 15, 2022, 07:36:37 PM
The U.S.’ Trinity test in 1945, the first-ever nuclear detonation, released around 19 kilotons of explosive energy. The explosion instantly vaporized the tower it stood on and turned the surrounding sand into green glass, before sending a powerful heatwave across the desert.

As the Cold War escalated in the years after WWII, the U.S. and the Soviet Union tested bombs that were at least 500 times greater in explosive power. This infographic visually compares the 10 largest nuclear explosions in history.


https://www.visualcapitalist.com/largest-nuclear-explosions/ (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/largest-nuclear-explosions/)

(https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Anatomy-of-a-Mushroom-Cloud-1.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 19, 2022, 10:52:30 AM
All dogs can be traced back 40 million years ago to a weasel-like animal called the Miacis which dwelled in trees and dens. The Miacis later evolved into the Tomarctus, a direct forbear of the genus Canis, which includes the wolf and jackal as well as the dog.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 19, 2022, 03:15:09 PM
Known as the Kyshtym disaster or the Mayak disaster, at the time it was the worst nuclear disaster that the world had ever experienced. But neither the world nor the residents at the epicenter of the disaster really knew what was happening at the time. It would take at least 20 years for news of the disaster to reach the international community. And even then, many officials outside and within the Soviet Union continued to deny that a disaster ever took place.

Even in the 21st century, information about the Kyshtym disaster is hard to come by because there were so few reports made about it at the time in an attempt to keep the disaster a secret. Meanwhile, the full extent of the disaster remains unknown to this day, since it's difficult to determine whether illnesses are caused by radiation poisoning or not. But with the staggeringly high rates of illnesses in the area, it's hard to pretend nothing happened. These are some chilling details about the Russian nuclear disaster you've never heard of.

Chelyabinsk-40


The Soviet Union started building the closed town of Chelyabinsk-40 in 1946, later renaming it to Chelyabinsk-65, though it was located over 50 miles from the actual city of Chelyabinsk. The Guardian writes that the town was constructed secretly around a nuclear power plant and housed workers from all across the Soviet Union who were tasked with building an atomic bomb. After two years of construction by almost 35,000 soldiers, POWs, and Gulag prisoners, the town's plutonium power plant, known as the Mayak Production Association, was activated in 1948.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/chilling-details-about-the-russian-nuclear-disaster-you-ve-never-heard-of/ar-AAXrPOP?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=8f4dd23194d9483eb70ae86fd9cf94b8 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/chilling-details-about-the-russian-nuclear-disaster-you-ve-never-heard-of/ar-AAXrPOP?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=8f4dd23194d9483eb70ae86fd9cf94b8)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 22, 2022, 07:36:21 AM
Washington, DC, is home to two endangered species, the dwarf wedgemussel and the Hay's Spring amphipod.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 23, 2022, 09:08:52 AM
President Grover Cleveland (1837-1908) is the only president to be elected to two nonconsecutive terms. He was the 22nd and 24th president.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 23, 2022, 09:34:54 AM
When i started posting on the old CFN.com board Forum there was a vote for poster of the year - for a while
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 23, 2022, 09:48:15 AM
ask utee about it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 23, 2022, 04:12:59 PM
President Grover Cleveland (1837-1908) is the only president to be elected to two nonconsecutive terms. He was the 22nd and 24th president.
Could happen again soon....
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 23, 2022, 04:13:35 PM
When i started posting on the old CFN.com board Forum there was a vote for poster of the year - for a while
We stopped that when we moved to Scout for some reason. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 23, 2022, 11:19:41 PM
Could happen again soon....
I hope not
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2022, 10:04:15 AM
Before Arthur MacArthur was 20 years old, he had already fought in several significant Civil War battles and survived being shot in the chest, his life likely spared by a packet of letters and a Bible placed close to his heart.

Almost two decades before his more famous son, Douglas, was born, MacArthur was a war hero and the recipient of the Medal of Honor for his actions at the Battle of Missionary Ridge.


Arthur MacArthur always wanted to be a soldier. When he was only 16 and living in Wisconsin, he approached several company commanders from one regiment that passed through Milwaukee in July 1861, pleading to join. He was declined by all, with one politely telling him that he should focus on being a better student than soldier. MacArthur is said to have replied, "I propose to do both, sir."

A year later, MacArthur lied about his age and, with the help of his father, a judge, was appointed the adjutant of the 24th Wisconsin Volunteer Infantry. A military career that lasted until 1909 started inauspiciously as MacArthur's abilities -- his youth and eagerness conspiring against him at times -- were doubted by superiors. MacArthur was determined, though, and began to prove himself, starting at the Battle of Perryville in Kentucky in October 1862 and then at the Battle of Stones River in Tennessee a few months later.


Then came Missionary Ridge on Nov. 25, 1863. Coming off being defeated soundly at Chickamauga, Union troops were surrounded as Confederate Gen. Braxton Bragg's forces lay siege to Chattanooga, Tennessee. Bragg's intent was to cut off the Union's supply lines and force it to surrender.

Soldiers were starving, with rations limited to "four cakes of hard bread and a quarter pound of pork every three days."

Maj. Gen. Ulysses S. Grant -- recently placed in command of all Union forces in the West -- acted decisively, replacing Gen. William Rosecrans with Gen. George Thomas, and opening the Cracker Line to get more food to the troops.


https://www.military.com/history/how-douglas-macarthurs-father-helped-deliver-death-knell-of-confederacy.html (https://www.military.com/history/how-douglas-macarthurs-father-helped-deliver-death-knell-of-confederacy.html)

Grant had another big concern. Worried about Gen. William T. Sherman's forces north of Missionary Ridge, he sought to relieve pressure on them by providing a distraction. Grant commanded Gen. Thomas Wood's men to attempt to seize the Confederate rifle pits at the base of the ridge. They weren't instructed to go any farther, but once they left themselves vulnerable to enemy artillery, staying put was not advisable.

Against orders, they charged up Missionary Ridge.

"Grant and those guys didn't want it to happen," Zobel said. "They only wanted to go to the lower part of [the ridge], but then they started taking all those potshots, and everybody was like, 'Oh, we can't even sit here. We have to go up this thing.'"

During the charge, the standard bearer of the 24th Wisconsin Volunteer Infantry went down -- accounts vary about whether he was killed or not -- and dropped the unit's flag. Fueled by instinct and adrenaline, MacArthur, an 18-year-old first lieutenant recently hospitalized with typhoid fever, grabbed the flag and ran full speed at the Confederates. After one hour of intense battle, MacArthur was the first Union soldier to summit Missionary Ridge.

"Alone between the two erupting lines, [MacArthur] was wounded twice on his way to planting the regiment's flag in almost the exact midpoint of the Confederate fortifications,'' according to the nonprofit American Battlefield Trust. "The men of the 24th surged after him and 15,000 more Union troops took heart and followed, rising up and smashing the Confederate center."

Missionary Ridge was the culmination of three battles on successive days that put Chattanooga and its key rail lines in Union hands and helped lay the groundwork for Sherman's Atlanta Campaign a year later. One southern soldier referred to the setback as "the death-knell of the Confederacy."

As for MacArthur, he was brevetted as a colonel in 1864, earning the moniker "the Boy Colonel." Besides his wounds at Missionary Ridge, MacArthur was injured during the Atlanta Campaign and was shot in the shoulder and knee at Franklin, Tennessee, in 1864.

MacArthur was bestowed the Medal of Honor for his actions at Missionary Ridge in 1890. He died while speaking at a reunion of the 24th in 1912. He was 67.

"At the podium he began, 'Your indomitable regiment ...' before collapsing," according to one account. "Moments later, he was dead. The old men of the 24th wrapped his body in the flag hanging on the wall, the flag he had carried to the top of Missionary Ridge as a teenager."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2022, 12:51:51 PM
ask utee about it
Why did he win then shut it down?Speaking of him where has he been?Hanging out with Bwarb? Haven't seen either post for a spell
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2022, 01:00:39 PM
not sure where they've been

the political crap here may have run them off

I did see something on Facebook a week or so ago including utee, seemed he was enjoying life

Perhaps Bwarb moved to Austin?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2022, 04:37:46 PM
The Horror
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 04:54:10 PM
The Ukraine topic, I think, made them go away. Hopefully they will return. Great guys.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 26, 2022, 07:15:53 PM
The Ukraine topic, I think, made them go away. Hopefully they will return. Great guys.
I've still been reading. 

The NCAAT broke my Purdue fandom. I can no longer care. I don't think I'm going to watch either football or basketball going forward. And that means I don't care about recruiting, or conference realignment, or the transfer portal and NIL, etc. 

As for CFB51 in general, well, I haven't really wanted to talk about abortion, or gun control, or Ukraine (which has fallen out of the news despite still being a sh!tshow), or any of the other bullsh!t topics that have been dominating this place lately. The level of discourse on these topics--topics we used to avoid as a rule--is coarse. Not really causing me to want to interact. 

It's a shame, too... I've done some really good cooking lately and I know Nubbz has been missing the pictures. :57:

I have not moved to Austin, and I do not know 94's whereabouts. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: WhiskeyM on May 26, 2022, 09:56:11 PM
I've still been reading.

The NCAAT broke my Purdue fandom. I can no longer care. I don't think I'm going to watch either football or basketball going forward. And that means I don't care about recruiting, or conference realignment, or the transfer portal and NIL, etc.

You've got to bring yourself around to watching Purdue football again.

This is THE season for it.  Everything is falling into place for a run at the B1G West and finally playing for a CCG.

We finally have a seasoned QB and know for sure who will be the starter in week 1.  We also have a competent OL.

We are in Brohms 6th year.  He finally has the right pieces and culture in place.  This was the expected time frame to rebuild the Hazell disaster and the COVID year.

And honestly, probably a chance Brohm is gone after this year.  A successful season means others will come calling.  Ive long suspected he's waiting for an NFL job.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 27, 2022, 08:14:28 AM
I've still been reading.

The NCAAT broke my Purdue fandom. I can no longer care. I don't think I'm going to watch either football or basketball going forward. And that means I don't care about recruiting, or conference realignment, or the transfer portal and NIL, etc.

As for CFB51 in general, well, I haven't really wanted to talk about abortion, or gun control, or Ukraine (which has fallen out of the news despite still being a sh!tshow), or any of the other bullsh!t topics that have been dominating this place lately. The level of discourse on these topics--topics we used to avoid as a rule--is coarse. Not really causing me to want to interact.

It's a shame, too... I've done some really good cooking lately and I know Nubbz has been missing the pictures. :57:

I have not moved to Austin, and I do not know 94's whereabouts.
Well, we miss you.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2022, 09:14:16 AM
One of Uranus's moons, Miranda, is not like any other object in the solar system astronomers have discovered so far. It looks like it has been turned inside out.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2022, 11:42:08 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/5231_10200172334811285_85811379_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=ba80b0&_nc_ohc=rc024ffXmf4AX-cSBkw&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_TwNTev8RNS0-EyBWd7JmOhkF3w_Em_vmLixaknBzgZA&oe=62B74BB5)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2022, 11:49:43 AM
Sioux City, Iowa -- 
When the U.S. Air Force F-100 Super Sabre that was on static display in Sioux City, Iowa was removed from its prominent position last fall the timing for a much needed makeover was perfect.

The Vietnam War era fighter jet at the Iowa Air National Guard looks like new again after being repaired and repainted. The restoration came just in time as the U.S. Air Force marks its 75th Anniversary this year.

https://www.185arw.ang.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/3045615/f-100-restoration-tribute-to-air-national-guard-legacy/fbclid/f-100-restoration-tribute-to-air-national-guard-legacy/ (https://www.185arw.ang.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/3045615/f-100-restoration-tribute-to-air-national-guard-legacy/fbclid/f-100-restoration-tribute-to-air-national-guard-legacy/)


Sioux City HA F-100
A U.S. Air Force F-100 Super Sabre on the ramp at the Iowa Air National Guard’s 185th Air Refueling Wing has been repaired and repainted in preparation to be placed back on static display. The Iowa Air National Guard unit flew the F-100 for 16 years between 1961 and 1977. U.S. Air National Guard photo Senior Master Sgt. Vincent De Groot
 (https://media.defense.gov/2022/May/26/2003006858/1200/1200/0/220526-Z-KZ880-010.JPG)



With its signature oval nose, curved fuselage and flat bottom the 1950’s era swept wing jet resembles a Formula 1 race car of the same time period. Every inch of the North American Aviation engineered aircraft was built for speed. Known as a “century series” fighter because of the “100” designation, the 2nd generation fighter was the first production run of supersonic fighters created for the U.S. Air Force.

Like many Air National Guard units the 174th Fighter Squadron of the Iowa Air Guard was first allocated aircraft, pilots and maintainers in 1946 following the 2nd World War. Fixed-wing flying units were not part of the newly formed Air National Guard however until a year later, when in September of 1947 the Air Force officially became a separate service.

The Iowa Air Guard’s 185th Air Refueling Wing, as it is known today had originally flown single seat fighter aircraft when they received castoff P-51 Mustangs after the war. The unit was equipped with variations of F-80 fighter jets during the 1950s but when the unit receive the F-100 in 1961 they had officially made the leap into the supersonic jet age.

In the years to follow the F-100 would go on to become a significant part of U.S. Air Force and Air National Guard history. During their 16 year run with the Super Sabre, the 174th Tactical Fighter Squadron was one of only four Air National Guard Fighter units who deployed with the F-100 for a yearlong deployment to Vietnam.

The 174th was joined by Colorado’s 120th, New Mexico’s 188th and New York’s 136th Tactical Fighter Squadrons, where each unit served a full year at air bases in South Vietnam starting in 1968. A fifth group of volunteer guard members from New Jersey and Washington, D.C. made up an active duty squadron, the 355th TFS, who also flew the F-100.

After their arrival in Vietnam, Air National Guard F-100 units quickly achieved the status being among most effective close air support units in theater.  Their performance during that time permanently erased the “flying club” image of the guard. The five squadrons accumulated a combined 30,000 combat sorties during their deployment to South Vietnam.

Much of the guard success of getting bombs on target and keeping aircraft flying was attributed to the maturity and experience of ANG pilots. Another significant contributing factor to their success was the combination of stability and ownership that ANG maintainers have with their aircraft.

During the 1970s Air Guard maintainers were credited with a significant F-100 upgrade when they were granted additional autonomy that came with sole ownership of the F-100.  ANG maintainers, who F-100 “Misty” pilot Jack Doub referred to as “really smart Air National Guard guys” retrofitted the F-100 with afterburners from retired F-102 aircraft. The improvement solved long standing issues with engine performance while solidifying the unique, total force contributions of the Air National Guard.

After giving up the Super Sabre in July 1977 the F-100 held the honor of being the longest piloted airframe in the Iowa Guard unit until a few years ago when it was surpassed by their current KC-135. In November of 2023 the unit will mark its 20th year flying the KC-135 Stratotanker.

Even after sixty years the recent F-100 restoration project had new 185th Fabrication Specialists honing freshly acquired tech school skills repairing badly deteriorated wing trailing edges. Other repairs, combined with the efforts of the co-located Air National Guard paint facility, ensured a high quality finished product that will keep the old aircraft in good shape for another 20 years.

The old jet with the iconic Sioux City “HA” on its tail is now ready to go back on its pedestal where it will serve as a tribute to Air National Guard members past and present.  The aircraft will again serve as a reminder of the shared heritage and contributions of those who flew and fixed the “HUN” for years to come.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2022, 12:35:51 PM
This is the RMS Queen Elizabeth pulling into New York with returning US Servicemen in 1945, after WW2 ended.
THANK YOU VETERANS, past and present.
www.soldiersolutionsllc.com


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t45.1600-4/281580042_23850457665700637_7190898723722173016_n.jpg?stp=c0.65.526.526a_cp0_dst-jpg_p526x296_q75_spS444&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=67cdda&_nc_ohc=ZdPzHxNXntIAX-mo7Rg&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-93CYErou7YfNtqhIqAfQ-6_ZYbfMpya4_ZaiaEsqc6g&oe=62952B21)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 27, 2022, 03:26:26 PM
I've still been reading.

The NCAAT broke my Purdue fandom. 
That was definitely a rough tournament.  Purdue had the red carpet rolled out and . . .

That said:
You've got to bring yourself around to watching Purdue football again.

This is THE season for it.  Everything is falling into place for a run at the B1G West and finally playing for a CCG.

We finally have a seasoned QB and know for sure who will be the starter in week 1.  We also have a competent OL.

We are in Brohms 6th year.  He finally has the right pieces and culture in place.  This was the expected time frame to rebuild the Hazell disaster and the COVID year.

And honestly, probably a chance Brohm is gone after this year.  A successful season means others will come calling.  Ive long suspected he's waiting for an NFL job.
I do think there is a decent chance for Purdue to compete for the B1G-W this year and with the impending elimination of divisions this year is probably the best chance Purdue will ever have at a CG appearance.  

Now I need to go look some stuff up to see if that makes sense:

B1G-E opponents for B1G-W teams:

Then there is the H/A split to consider, for Purdue, home:
Away:

It isn't easy but I could see it happening.  If the Boilers manage to win in Madison (10/22) I'd flat out pick them to make it.  Even if not, Wisconsin's tough crossover(@tOSU) is tougher than PSU's tough crossover (vs PSU).  Wisconsin also travels to East Lansing, Lincoln, Iowa City, and Evanston so it isn't ridiculous to say that Wisconsin could lose two or more league games.  That doesn't leave Purdue with much margin for error if they lose in Madison but it does provide them with a shot.  

It wouldn't be shocking for Wisconsin to lose three of their five league road games (basically tOSU and two out of MSU, UNL, IA, NU).  That gives Purdue a shot.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 28, 2022, 11:08:52 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/283012630_7548570745217974_1570779768155907116_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Q_YKa2VukTEAX9JgmkA&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT97LXktOUCawtJiAufja9zwfh5qT330wrOFsW3GIG1urA&oe=6296E3D7)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 28, 2022, 12:10:13 PM
Didn't know that FF - sharp lady
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 28, 2022, 12:16:35 PM
It's a shame, too... I've done some really good cooking lately and I know Nubbz has been missing the pictures. :57:

I have not moved to Austin, and I do not know 94's whereabouts.
Thank You for following protocol.And 94 I believe has been assigned Kidney Detail to combat the influx of CALI and us Yanquis type Hordes
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 28, 2022, 12:28:24 PM
Didn't know that FF - sharp lady
I didn't fact check it

found it on FB

but, why would someone make up that story?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 28, 2022, 12:33:59 PM
One from the way back archives... 2014 over Chino, California at sunset with three P-47 Thunderbolts (a fourth one is just out of frame trying to catch up). The world's only two flying Razorback P-47G Thunderbolts (built by Curtiss-Wright) 'Snafu' and the the other G model from Planes of Fame Air Museum lead while a bubble-top P-47D Thunderbolt 'Hun Hunter XVI' round up the third.

#aviation #aviationphotography #avgeek #airtoair #air2air #ww2 #worldwar2 #p47thunderbolt #p47s

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/283803245_10160033013288489_2765903490323828201_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=5IMBR9lcI1oAX8693OY&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9XXkwhboyyGR-j4QAesupEsGdWL1g-u2zdTlHgafsLMg&oe=6296F7F9)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 28, 2022, 01:37:11 PM
I didn't fact check it

found it on FB

but, why would someone make up that story?
Well you make up golf scores

Damn 80+ yr old war birds,takes some stones to go up in one.Wonder if they are knock offs? They were incredible ground assault planes
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: WhiskeyM on May 29, 2022, 05:17:29 PM
The Vatican knew it had a winner on its hands with Allegri’s “Miserere” and, wanting to preserve its aura of mystery and exclusivity, forbade replication, threatening anyone who attempted to copy or publish it with excommunication. But that didn’t stop the teenaged Mozart.

Mozart listened to the song twice, transcribed it from memory, and committed one of the earliest known instances of musical piracy.

https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2017/09/allegri-miserere-mozart-vatican-terez-rose.html
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 29, 2022, 08:30:35 PM
When Mozart was my age hed been dead for 38 years
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 29, 2022, 11:29:50 PM
When Mozart was my age hed been dead for 38 years
And at that time people in the Cemetery where he was buried heard a strange scratching noise so they dug him up and found him using an eraser to erase music.

They asked what he was doing and he said . . .

Can't you see . . .

I'm decomposing. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2022, 07:52:14 AM
Motecuhzoma Xocoyotzin (Montezuma II), the 9th emperor of the Aztecs, was one of the most wealthy and powerful men in the world. He was also known as The Chocolate King. At the height of his power, he had a stash of nearly a billion cacao beans.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2022, 08:18:49 AM
in 1940, the Vought F4U Corsair flew for the first time. In 1943, the Corsair and F6F Hellcat (AKA the "Terrible Twins") destroyed 5 enemy planes for every U.S. plane lost. This 1944 photo is of factory-fresh Corsairs and Hellcats being prepared to be shipped to the Pacific.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/284976121_544452387343356_5901393899283464726_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s720x720&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=DR8HfLCyKI0AX9CsH69&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9zMN3Zc4bbZSycLnsG3eCZVB-s04z4rUfs4hjw6LTKWg&oe=6299A741)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2022, 08:16:13 AM
Every 11 years, solar activity surges. The sunspots that pepper the sun explode, hurtling massive clouds of gas known as "CMEs" through the solar system. This is called “solar maximum.”
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2022, 08:25:52 AM
And in the Little Ice Age, we had the Maunder Minimum of sunspots.

And guess where we are today?  On the low side of normal.

Solar Cycle progression | Solar activity | SpaceWeatherLive.com (https://www.spaceweatherlive.com/en/solar-activity/solar-cycle.html)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 31, 2022, 12:58:48 PM
in 1940, the Vought F4U Corsair flew for the first time. In 1943, the Corsair and F6F Hellcat (AKA the "Terrible Twins") destroyed 5 enemy planes for every U.S. plane lost. This 1944 photo is of factory-fresh Corsairs and Hellcats being prepared to be shipped to the Pacific.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/284976121_544452387343356_5901393899283464726_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s720x720&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=DR8HfLCyKI0AX9CsH69&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9zMN3Zc4bbZSycLnsG3eCZVB-s04z4rUfs4hjw6LTKWg&oe=6299A741)
This is what doomed the Japanese, they couldn't even begin to compete with US productivity.  

My great-aunt (Dad's dad's sister) helped build Corsairs at the Blimp Building in Akron, Ohio.  The Goodyear produced Corsairs were F4U-G with the "G" indicating that they were built by Goodyear rather than Vought.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 01:39:25 PM
156 years ago today in 1866, hardened Irish veterans from the American Civil War attack the Canadian province of Ontario in the Battle of Ridgeway.
Irish immigration to the United States increased greatly in the 19th century. During the largest political crisis in American history, the Irish immigrants showed loyalty to their home states and organized regiments for both sides in the upcoming War Between the States. After the war was over, many of these Irishmen reconnected with each other and were part of a secret society known as the Fenian Brotherhood. Since these men were now war veterans with military training, and in some cases still armed with military equipment, they decided to put it to use to aid their motherland.
The plan was to invade the nearby and lightly guarded British provinces in Canada to negotiate for Irish independence. British/Canadian authorities were alerted of the incoming invasion and hastily put together a militia to stop them. Due to the British government’s cozy relation with the Confederate States of America in the recent war. The U.S. authorities were slow and apathetic in helping the British stop the invasion. Although they would eventually intervene.
On the early morning of June 1st the Fenians began to cross the Niagara River in great numbers until U.S. authorities finally prevented them in the late afternoon. On June 2nd, a force of about 600 men that had crossed the border deployed skirmishers towards the village of Ridgeway. Deploying skirmishers was a common tactic during the American Civil War. A skirmisher line was used to provide reconnaissance and test the enemy’s position. The skirmishers were to engage the Canadian militia and lure them into the main Fenian force.
But these skirmishers were veterans of one of the largest exchanges in gunfire in history at that point. And when they came across the green Canadian militia of about 800 men. They pinned them down and caused panic. The main Irish force then charged with bayonets and sent the Canadians running allowing the Irish to briefly capture the village. The Fenian leaders quickly realized that their small force was in over their heads and retreated back into the United States.
The Battle of Ridgeway is considered Canada's first modern battle in the industrial era and the first fought exclusively by Canadian troops led by Canadian officers. There were 5 major Fenian raids over the next 5 years and all of them ended in failure. The raids would also be a catalyst for the confederation of Canada which occurred in 1867.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 09:15:08 PM
The "Bent Wing Bird" took its first flight #OTD May 29, 1940!

#Aviation #WWII


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/283607481_10160709187020832_41639024950714734_n.png?stp=dst-png_p526x296&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=9vdhdZ5gunkAX86FjQm&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-2RV5Gs1TA7P79DbyKkhZN7cAReYdJfHOBlasBPrjDnQ&oe=629E2199)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 09:34:56 PM
This was May, 1970 on FB Gladiator. Mortared every day. Our Machine Gunner was wounded by one of those rounds. As I said earlier this was one ugly Firebase. Robert Henningsen adds: My squad was first 'on the hill' when Gladiator was re-opened, Spring '70. A 'daisy cutter' was first dropped on the hill and it looked like an atomic bomb plume from the jungle floor. WE were the only Grunts to 'make the top' by dusk and it was "a long night" of 100 % guard duty on the crest. No Gooks showed up and we were happy to see the rest of our 2cd platoon and the boys of Company C show up in the morning. Photo by Franklin Bass

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/20727860_10209671417731529_5012357396192136788_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=19026a&_nc_ohc=G9Pwz2LSzgQAX9NG-Zw&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9HvCap_N0XYBu_oKEyN6RXyIynXbr0ZI3IrYvwQgKM6g&oe=62BFAD89)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 10:29:14 PM
143 years ago today in 1879, Prince Imperial Napoléon IV, heir to the Bonaparte monarchy is killed during the Anglo-Zulu War.
Louis-Napoléon Bonaparte was born in Paris during the Second French Empire. His father Charles-Louis Napoléon Bonaparte was the nephew of Napoléon Bonaparte and seized power in 1852 anointing himself Emperor as Napoléon III. The Second French Empire under his leadership doubled the size of its overseas empire and repaired relations with Great Britain. However in July 1870 Napoléon III would enter into a war with Prussia with no allies and an inferior army. He would be captured in battle and Paris would abandon him declaring the Third Republic of France. The Bonaparte family would go into exile in England where the young Prince Imperial Napoléon IV would receive military training.
The young Prince was beloved and popular within political elite circles. He was a serious contender to marry one of Queen Victoria’s daughters, but the Prince first desired to experience military action. After applying great pressure he would get the opportunity to travel to South Africa and assist the British in their ongoing war with the Zulu people. He was attached to the staff of a Colonel in the Royal Engineers but the Prince’s eagerness for action found him volunteering to go along with reconnaissance missions as often as he could. Concerned for his safety, the British assigned personal guards to protect the young reckless Prince.
On the morning of June 1st the Prince insisted the reconnaissance mission planned for that day go earlier without full strength. The party dismounted and was resting in an abandoned Zulu village when suddenly 40 Zulu warriors ambushed them. The men escorting the Prince mounted their horses and did not attempt to fight, fleeing for their lives. Napoléon’s horse was spooked and began to run off before he could be fully mounted in the saddle. The Prince held onto a strap as the horse carried him to safety but the strap broke and the horse ran off with his carbine and a sword that belonged to Napoléon I.  His right arm was trampled and he pulled out a revolver with his left hand and began to run away, but four Zulu warriors rushed the Prince and one of their assegai was thrown through his leg. The Prince pulled the assegai from his leg and tried to fight with it using his trampled arm while shooting at the oncoming Zulus. He was overwhelmed and killed, and when his body was recovered it had 18 assegai wounds.
The Prince’s death sent shockwaves throughout England and France. He was only 23 years old and buried next to his father. His grieving mother made a pilgrimage to the location he was killed. And the best chance for a restoration of the Bonapartist Monarchy had died with him.
[Online References]
(https://www.historynet.com/the-death-of-a-prince-louis... )
(https://www.historyandheadlines.com/june-1-1879-the-last.../ )
(https://www.napoleon.org/.../napoleon-eugene-louis-jean.../ )
Artwork by Paul Jamin


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/285135244_457116752885683_3917515173323671158_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=yX5EvmdWzMAAX9eTJlR&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_57YV1uJB4zI2SJlHiOnUzCPBwkJUDBGBWhsWwOVk57Q&oe=629EB581)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2022, 08:24:15 AM
The autoimmune disease Systemic Lupus Erythmatosus (SLE), or lupus, literally means wolf redness, because in the eighteenth century, physicians believed the disease was caused by a wolf bite.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2022, 09:09:35 AM
She was The Model for the Statue of Liberty.
Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi's model for the Statue of Liberty, was the beautiful Frenchwoman Isabelle Boyer, who was fist married to the American industrialist Isaac Merrit Singer-of sewing machine fame- and later to the Duke of Campo Selice of Luxembourg.
In 1878, the 36-year-old Duchess de Campo Selice attracted the attention of the sculptor who forever immortalized her features in the face of Lady Liberty.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/280606997_10221504597865841_5223274649141878276_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=TDN1qc9BSN0AX_3cqQ6&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_vCI2bKtvTH6_TPsjr6KpJJPN4dFs4V0xfKTOncs-dxA&oe=62A2882B)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 06, 2022, 03:32:59 PM
However in July 1870 Napoléon III would enter into a war with Prussia with no allies and an inferior army. 
Oops (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Prussian_War).  

I find the Franco-Prussian War to be fascinating.  When most present day people hear of a war between France and Germany they just immediately assume that Germany will of course win but at the time things were very different.  The "German" part of the war wasn't modern unified Germany but rather the "North German Confederation which was less populous than France.  Additionally, the Napoleonic Wars of the early nineteenth Century had only concluded about 55 years before.  For a modern comparison, 55 years ago today was 1967 or the height of the Vietnam War.  Thus there were still a LOT of veterans of the Napoleonic wars in the various countries of Europe and those wars were still very much in the public consciousness.  

I can't find a citation for it offhand but I've read that London's Newspapers were printing maps of "Probable French Invasion routes to Berlin" at the beginning of the war.  this is very interesting because Britain was neutral so these were not biased in favor of France.  If anything the British were more likely to be biased AGAINST France due to the history (Napoleonic Wars and prior) and the fact that France and decidedly NOT Germany was seen as Britain's chief rival.  

The results of the Franco-Prussian War were far-reaching and, to an extent, can still be felt today.  France was not just defeated but outright humiliated by the Germans and the victorious Bismark was able to leverage that into unification of nearly all German people under one nation for the first time in history.  The notable exception were those Germans living in Austria but the Austrian Germans ended up fighting on the same side as the rest of the Germans in WWI and birthing the man who would become fuhrer of a united (post Anschluss) Germany in WWII.  

Britain's long-time (literally centuries) rivalry with France cooled in the face of Germany as the new dominant power in Europe which led to Britain moving closer diplomatically to France and ultimately lead to Britain and France standing together in both World Wars of the Twentieth Century.  

France realized the need for allies in any potential conflict with the neighbor that was now stronger than they were which led to France dropping their conflicts with Russia (mostly dealing with Black Sea access) and cultivating improved relations with Germany's Eastern neighbor for mutual defense against potential German aggressions.  

Lessons from the war (some very wrong) were also important to later events.  Specifically, the end of the American Civil War had seen significant use of trench defensive fortifications and the horrors of static trench warfare began to be realized.  However the Franco-Prussian War was extremely short.  The whole thing only lasted barely over six months and for all practical purposes it was over with the surrender of Metz barely three months after the outbreak of hostilities.  Thus the power of the offensive was idolized and the lessons of the American Civil War were lost.  This led to literally thousands of unnecessary deaths in WWI as officers schooled in this belief in the offensive sent soldiers on hopeless headlong charges against entrenched defenders.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2022, 07:14:31 AM
Some Protestants viewed the Gregorian calendar as a Catholic plot.

Though Pope Gregory’s papal bull reforming the calendar had no power beyond the Catholic Church, Catholic countries—including Spain, Portugal and Italy—swiftly adopted the new system for their civil affairs. European Protestants, however, largely rejected the change because of its ties to the papacy, fearing it was an attempt to silence their movement. It wasn’t until 1700 that Protestant Germany switched over, and England held out until 1752. Orthodox countries clung to the Julian calendar until even later, and their national churches have never embraced Gregory’s reforms.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2022, 07:16:18 AM
The F-G war did have a considerable impact on the future, as you nicely note.  WW I had an impact on WW 2, as is more widely appreciated I think.

The Maginot Line was not really a failure, in my view, and Chamberlain was in a bad spot at Munich and had few options.  I can argue the ML expense would have been better applied to more tanks and planes, but without the strategy to go with same, meh.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2022, 08:00:19 AM
There were no women prisoners at Alcatraz. There were also no female guards or administrators.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2022, 02:08:16 PM
The Marquis de Lafayette arrived in South Carolina on June 13, 1777 to join the American Revolution. The French nobleman was nineteen years old and felt the fight for Liberty was linked to the happiness of all mankind. He bought a ship and sailed over.
George Washington and the young military man forged a long lasting friendship. Lafayette would name is son after George Washington in future years. In 1778 after being appointed a Major General, and serving as George Washington's aide-de-camp, taking part in the Battle of Brandywine, spending the winter at Valley Forge, he went back to France where he successfully persuaded the French to assist American forces. In 1780, Marquis de Lafayette returned to America and served in the Virginia campaign, which led to the surrender of Lord Charles Cornwallis in 1781.


Pictured is a statue of the Marquis de Lafayette that is located in NYC sculpted by Frédéric-Auguste Bartholdi, who also designed the Statue of Liberty.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2022, 02:11:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/1OcTxOh.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2022, 08:02:38 AM
The English words “boonies” and “boondocks” is actually based on the Filipino/Tagalog word for “mountain,” bundok. The word entered the North American vernacular in the 1940s, probably brought back by soldiers stationed in the Philippines during World War II.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 01:12:02 PM
The legendary Chinese seafarer the West overlooks | NOVA | PBS (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/zheng-he-china-explorer-ships/?fbclid=IwAR3J8K2VLDMR2ElUvB8s8bCl_Bg9b3rop7PAVLvHpl951s-t5hegTTWkv_w)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 03:03:19 PM
This day in history 323.B.C.: Alexander the Great dies
Alexander the Great, the young Macedonian military genius who forged an empire stretching from the eastern Mediterranean to India, dies in Babylon, in present-day Iraq, at the age of 33.
Born in Macedonia to King Phillip II and Queen Olympias, Alexander received a classical education from famed philosopher Aristotle and a military education from his father. At the age of 16, Alexander led his first troops into combat and two years later commanded a large part of his father’s army that won the Battle of Chaeronea and brought Greece under Macedonian rule. In 336 B.C., Phillip II was assassinated, and Alexander ascended to the throne.
Two years later, the young king led a large army into Asia Minor to carry out his father’s plans for conquering Persia. Consistently outnumbered in his battles against superior Persian forces, Alexander displayed an unprecedented understanding of strategic military planning and tactical maneuvers. He never lost a single battle, and by 330 B.C. all of Persia and Asia Minor was under his sway.
Although Alexander controlled the largest empire in the history of the world, he launched a new eastern campaign soon after his return from Persia. By 327 B.C., he had conquered Afghanistan, Central Asia, and northern India. In the next year, his army, exhausted after eight years of fighting, refused to go farther, and Alexander led them on a difficult journey home through the inhospitable Makran Desert.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2022, 11:06:48 PM
In 1901, Connecticut set the first speed limit in the United States at12 mph.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 12:49:55 PM
I have a theory this was a prime contributor to our war with Japan in 1941.

109 years ago today in 1913, American soldiers crush the last resistance of the Islamic Moros in the Philippines during the Battle of Bud Bagsak.
In 1898 the United States found itself in a war with the old colonial power Spain. The U.S. spent $250 million and 3,000 lives (90% from infectious diseases) to acquire the islands of Cuba, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines. Described as “A Splendid Little War” by its proponents, the conflict against Spain lasted just 3 months, 3 weeks and 2 days. However Americans would soon learn a tough imperial lesson over the next decade with their occupation of the Philippines.
While Spain was formally handing over the islands to the United States military, the Filipino people expected their sovereignty and ratified a Declaration of Independence that the U.S. did not acknowledge. Tensions boiled over into an armed insurrection where both sides went back and forth committing atrocities. As the rebellion became more violent, a large anti-imperialism movement arose in the United States that denounced the war that lasted for roughly three years. Once the main Filipino population was brought to heel in a similar fashion the Americans made their native Indians submit, they focused their attention to the southern islands of the Philippines on the Moro people, a large Islamic minority.
In the 13th century, Muslim missionaries from the Persian Gulf arrived to this portion of the Philippines and converted the natives to Islam and established Sultanates across the isles. The Moros were a tribal people broken apart into smaller factions led by a leader called a Datu, and the Datus would be under the control of a Sultan. For centuries the Moros were known as brutal raiders and pirates towards their Christian and Pagan neighbors. When the Spanish had taken control of the Philippines in the 1500’s, for over three hundred years they fought the Moros but could not bring them under control. The Moros were primarily melee fighters using double edged blades called a kris, kalise, or barong. They were also expert guerrilla fighters who engaged in unsuspecting suicidal jihad attacks that the Spanish called “Juramentados.”
With the arrival of the United States military into Moroland, it didn’t take long for American soldiers to be killed by Moro guerrillas. Starting from 1903 and lasting all the way until 1913, the United States made slow progress bringing Moro territory under their control through punitive expeditions against rebellious Datus who took shelter in their mountaintop fortresses called cottas. The United States found the Moro customs repulsive and over time forced them to abolish slavery and polygamy. Numerous reports from American soldiers over the decade long insurrection commented on the Moro berserker-like tendencies where they would consume Areca nuts with stimulant-like properties and could sustain many gunshots in combat. The standard sidearm of the U.S. military, the .38 revolver was proven to be obsolete and helped spawn the invention and adoption of the 1911 .45 pistol.
The struggle with the Moros would catapult John J. Pershing’s early military career and he would ultimately be the third and final military governor of Moroland. In 1911 Pershing suggested and enforced a complete disarmament of the Moro people which would lead to their last resistance in two pitched battles. Their last stand would be made at the top of Mount Bagsak on the island of Jolo starting June 11th, 1913. Following previously successful tactics, Pershing would besiege the mountain and bring up heavy artillery to use against the primitive melee warriors with outdated firearms. On June 15th the final assault was made and all 500 Moro rebels, including the women and children, would be killed and the Americans would suffer 39 casualties.
The anti-imperialist movement would use the suppression of the Moro people and occupation of the Philippines as their top issue. Author Mark Twain denounced the occupation and American industry mogul Andrew Carnegie even offered to purchase the Philippines from the US Government to implement better policy. Today it is an unknown and overlooked conflict in American History. The Islamic Moro people are still the largest non-Christian minority in the Philippines and continued insurrection throughout the 20th century, including as recent as 2018 against Filipino president Rodrigo Duterte.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 01:13:08 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/iadoEj0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 17, 2022, 09:14:53 AM
https://youtu.be/f9Gb4PakFTU?list=PLSnt4mJGJfGjOqKgHe1_b8pIq-bZewEfA

can't make this shyt up
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2022, 10:01:15 AM
I have a theory this was a prime contributor to our war with Japan in 1941.
the Japanese just didn't like the US presence in the Philippines?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 11:14:31 AM
We cut off Japanese oil because of China.  They were pretty desparate for oil, and they could obtain it in SE Asia, Borneo, Indonesia, etc.  However, the PI were astride the shipping lanes from there to Japan, so they felt PI had to be neutralized.  The initial plan was to invade the PI only and wait for the US response and sink our fleet mixPacific somewhere.  Yamamoto came up with a new plan which was adopted, which was a tactical success and huge strategic failure as they missed the carriers and many of the sunk BBs were refloated and repaired, which could not have happened in deep waters.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on June 17, 2022, 11:24:50 AM
We cut off Japanese oil because of China.  They were pretty desparate for oil, and they could obtain it in SE Asia, Borneo, Indonesia, etc.  However, the PI were astride the shipping lanes from there to Japan, so they felt PI had to be neutralized.  The initial plan was to invade the PI only and wait for the US response and sink our fleet mixPacific somewhere.  Yamamoto came up with a new plan which was adopted, which was a tactical success and huge strategic failure as they missed the carriers and many of the sunk BBs were refloated and repaired, which could not have happened in deep waters.
They also made the mistake of not taking out the oil storage area
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 11:28:54 AM
Yeah, they also needed that third strike.  Dry docks as well.  That would have meant the main fleet would have had to go back to California.  They could not have supported Pearl very well beyond subs and some lighter ships.

It is amazing to me that Midway happened just a few months later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 17, 2022, 11:44:17 AM
We cut off Japanese oil because of China.  They were pretty desparate for oil, and they could obtain it in SE Asia, Borneo, Indonesia, etc.  However, the PI were astride the shipping lanes from there to Japan, so they felt PI had to be neutralized.  The initial plan was to invade the PI only and wait for the US response and sink our fleet mixPacific somewhere.  Yamamoto came up with a new plan which was adopted, which was a tactical success and huge strategic failure as they missed the carriers and many of the sunk BBs were refloated and repaired, which could not have happened in deep waters.
What is fascinating to me is how short the window was during which war with not only the US but also Britain, their empire, and the Netherlands seemed like a logical idea for the Japanese. 

First, you have to understand that while many Japanese were fanatical and most of them believed strongly in Japanese racial superiority, they weren't altogether stupid.  They knew that the US alone had a VASTLY larger industrial capacity so they understood that if the US stuck to the war they (the Japanese) would eventually face fleets far larger than they could possibly hope to build and thus hopeless odds. 

Knowing this, they saw war as a logical idea anyway basically because of their experience in the Russo-Japanese War of 1904/5 and in WWI. 

In the Russo-Japanese War the Japanese also faced a country with a larger industrial base and a larger fleet but much like the US in the 1940's, Imperial Russia in 1904 had multiple naval commitments (The Baltic, the Black Sea, the Mediterranean,  the Atlantic, the Pacific).  The Japanese prevailed over the Czar because the Czar had other problems while Japan could focus exclusively in the Pacific and also because Imperial Russia in the early twentieth century was teetering dangerously close to collapse. 

In WWI the Japanese basically just picked the right side.  They joined the war on the allied side, nabbed a bunch of German and Austrian Pacific colonies while the Germans and Austrians were preoccupied and unable to do anything about it, then waited for the end of the war and viola, they got a bunch of stuff for not much engagement in the actual fighting of the war. 

So the background is that history, their belief in Japanese racial superiority, and their belief that the Americans were fat playboys unwilling to do any real fighting.  Then, from the German blitzkrieg over France up until the Germans were turned back at the gates of Moscow it looked to a lot of observers like the Germans would win the European war. 

The Pearl Harbor Raid or "Hawaii Operation" as the Japanese called it, utilized six large fleet carriers.  The last two of them to be built were the Shokaku Class Carriers Shokaku and Zuikaku where were commissioned on August 8, 1941 and September 25, 1941 respectively.  As it turned out the American defenses in Hawaii were so grossly deficient that the Japanese probably could have been successful with just the four older carriers but the Japanese didn't know that in advance.  Their prewar analysis would have indicated that they needed the six carriers because otherwise they'd have faced the possibility of being outnumbered by the American carrier planes to say nothing of land based American air power.  Thus, the operation wasn't believed to be feasible until these two carriers were commissioned and ready for battle.  I don't know exactly when Zuikaku was "ready for battle" but frankly it is awfully impressive that a ship commissioned on 9/25/41 was involved in a major combat operation barely two months later so it can't have been much before the actual raid. 

Meanwhile, the Soviet Counter-Offensive outside Moscow began on December 5, 1941 just two days before the Pearl Harbor raid.  That timing is NOT coincidental as Stalin's spy in Tokyo had notified the Kremlin that the Japanese would be attacking the US and other Western Powers in the Pacific rather than joining Germany's war against the Soviet Union and this information permitted the transfer of more than 18 divisions  from Siberia and the Far East to the war against Germany. 

Just a month later the Soviets had pushed the Germans back from the gates of Moscow and established a more defensible line.  If the Hawaii Operation had been delayed by a month it is possible (maybe not likely) that cooler heads may have prevailed in Japan.  Somebody in Japan might have looked at the situation in Europe and said "hey, Germany might not win this thing, we might be wise not to get into it on their side." 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 11:58:26 AM
Japan faced a very tough choice regarding oil though, they were cut off, and running out, fast.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 17, 2022, 12:25:33 PM
Japan faced a very tough choice regarding oil though, they were cut off, and running out, fast.
Agreed and their country was run by hotheaded Army guys who were outright nuts.  That is why I said it might not have been likely that cooler heads would have prevailed even if the PH raid had been delayed a month.  

The US Oil embargo was joined by the UK and the Dutch (who were governing as a "government in exile" in London) so Japan had to either back down (to get the embargo lifted) or go to war (to take the oil).  My point was simply that had they KNOWN that the Germans were going to lose in Europe they (or at least most Japanese people) would have also known by extension that they couldn't win a war against undistracted versions of the UK, US, and Netherlands.  At that point the only option is to back down.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 12:27:33 PM
Maybe so, it's possible, though of course the Germans made another pitch to win in 1942 that had a chance.

Case Blue.  One of the interesting German offenses in WW 2.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 17, 2022, 03:26:35 PM
Maybe so, it's possible, though of course the Germans made another pitch to win in 1942 that had a chance.

Case Blue.  One of the interesting German offenses in WW 2.
Eh, yes and no.  I think that Case Blue was a relative longshot with only a remote chance of actually winning the war for the Nazi's.  They had a not altogether impossible chance of cutting off Soviet access to the Caucasian Oil but their chances of actually acquiring the oilfields, a transportation network to refineries, refineries, and a transportation network to where the oil was needed were remote at best.  Even if they had cut off Soviet access to Caucasian oil, the Soviets still had other oil and the US could have increased shipments as well so the Soviet War Machine wouldn't have suddenly stopped in its tracks completely (this is not to say that it wouldn't have been a problem for the Soviets and their allies).  

IMHO, the only significant chance the Nazi's had to get a different result out of the war would have been to knock the Soviets out as the Kaiser had done in his war a quarter-century earlier.  That, combined with having already occupied France and having Italy as an ally rather than an enemy would have presented the US and UK with an incredibly difficult proposition of trying to assault "Fortress Europe".  

I know you know but most Americans don't realize that as important as the D-Day landings were, at the time 80% of the German Army was fighting the Soviets on the Eastern Front.  There is simply no way that the US and UK would have been ready to make such a landing against an undistracted Germany for at least another year or two.  Thus, had the Germans managed to knock the Soviets out, the war would have either been ended in some sort of Nazi/UK/US compromise or decided after the development of Atomic Weapons in 1945.  

Knocking the Soviets Out:
Stalin is widely reputed to have gone into a virtual coma in the early weeks after the Nazi invasion.  The bad news for the Soviets came swiftly and just didn't stop for months.  The German advance from the frontier to the gates of Leningrad and Moscow is just astounding.  I once read that when FDR's personal envoy to Stalin was travelling from Britain to Archangel aboard a British warship in late 1941 he wrote in his diary that "the English are consistent, since I've been with them they have been saying that the Soviets will hold out for another two weeks."  It really was that touch-and-go for a while.  

Plenty of historians will tell you that there is "plenty of land behind Moscow" and that the Soviets could have lost Moscow and stayed in the war but I'm not so sure.  Moscow wasn't just a city or even the biggest city in the Soviet Union, it was also the largest manufacturing center, the transport hub, and the center of command and control.  Finally, there is a psychological impact to losing your capital.  In theory the Soviets could have just retreated some more and kept fighting but as a practical matter I'm not sure that they would have.  

The Germans got incredibly close to capturing Moscow.  One of the history books I have at home has a picture of a wrecked German tank with the spires of the Kremlin visible in the background.  That is CLOSE.  Maybe if they had focused on a single goal rather than changing priorities at Hitler's whim or if they hadn't had to spend the spring bailing out Mussolini's invasion of Greece they might have gotten there.  If that had been enough to knock the Soviets out of the war then who knows if Churchill's government in the UK would even have survived.  Remember that the US was still officially neutral (although providing billions of dollars worth of military and other supplies and fighting an undeclared naval war in the Atlantic against the U-boats).  A Germany that had possession of all of France and what they wanted of Russia would have been far too much for the UK to face alone.  

It is impossible to say what the ultimate impact of Germany knocking the Soviets out of the war would have been.  It might have been decisive in their favor or it might simply have led to millions of additional German Civilian casualties as their cities were vaporized by Anglo-American Atomic weapons.  That said, I think the Germans had a decent chance of accomplishing the goal of knocking out the Soviets in 1941 but not so in 1942 and beyond.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 04:27:08 PM
Guderian, who was very self serving, claimed as much in his book.  Others of course were more cautious about what a concerted drive on Moscow would have achieved.  The drive south on Kiev did bag a lot of Russians, but it also delayed Guderian for around a month.  On the other hand, his tanks were wearing out.  Tanks have tracks and engines and even main gun barrels that need servicing or replacing.  

I've played a neat computer game, which doesn't mean much of course, and I can usually take Moscow.  The better course I learned was to take Leningrad, link up with the Finns, let them play defense, and come down on Moscow from the NW.  That is with me playing both sides.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 17, 2022, 04:48:39 PM
Guderian, who was very self serving, claimed as much in his book.  Others of course were more cautious about what a concerted drive on Moscow would have achieved.  The drive south on Kiev did bag a lot of Russians, but it also delayed Guderian for around a month.  On the other hand, his tanks were wearing out.  Tanks have tracks and engines and even main gun barrels that need servicing or replacing. 

I've played a neat computer game, which doesn't mean much of course, and I can usually take Moscow.  The better course I learned was to take Leningrad, link up with the Finns, let them play defense, and come down on Moscow from the NW.  That is with me playing both sides.
Guderian, as you pointed out, is infamously self-serving in his book.  So many of the German high-command died either in the war, by suicide, or in the immediate postwar trials that a lot of the survivors found it convenient to blame every shortcoming on somebody who wasn't around to defend themselves.  

The logistical issues that you brought up were obviously a MAJOR problem for the Germans and only got worse the deeper they got into Soviet territory.  Someone once said that amateurs study tactics while experts study logistics and there is a lot of truth to that.  Tank tactics are irrelevant if you don't have fuel and ammunition for said tanks and equally irrelevant if your tanks are sidelined waiting for barrels, tracks, or other spare parts.  If Barbarossa had jumped off a month earlier maybe the Germans would have gotten to the outskirts of Moscow a month earlier and taken it or maybe they would simply have run out of fuel, ammunition, and spare parts a month earlier but in the same spot, who knows.  

The German failure to take Leningrad was obviously a major issue later.  Even though Leningrad was besieged and of little use to the Soviets, it still was an existing Soviet area that the Germans had to maintain a front line against and that takes men, equipment, and supplies that could otherwise have been employed elsewhere (such as Moscow or Stalingrad).  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 05:41:31 PM
Interestingly enough, the late start (June 22) was caused in part by Mussolini.  I have read an earlier start would have been held up by weather but I don't know if that is the case.  And yes, a month up front could well have been pivotal.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 05:44:56 PM
On This Day in History > June 17, 1775:
Patriots lose the Battle of Bunker Hill

"On this day in history, June 17, 1775, patriots lose the Battle of Bunker Hill, the first major battle of the American Revolution and the bloodiest of the entire war. The Battle of Bunker Hill began when patriots surrounding Boston learned that British commanders were planning to break out and take the hills around the city. The very green and untrained militia was surrounding the city after chasing the British back to Boston after the opening shots of the war at the Battles of Lexington and Concord.
The British were planning to break out of the town on June 18, but a businessman from New Hampshire visiting the city alerted the patriots after overhearing the plan. At this time, the militia was under the command of Massachusetts General Artemas Ward. The Continental Army was only authorized in Philadelphia on the 14th and George Washington appointed its leader on the 15th. The events that unfolded on Bunker Hill and Breed's Hill occurred several weeks before Washington arrived and took over.
On the night of June 16, 1200 soldiers entered the Charlestown Peninsula north of Boston under Colonel William Prescott. Prescott's orders were to build fortifications atop Bunker Hill on the northwest part of the peninsula. Prescott disobeyed the orders and built atop Breed's Hill instead, which was further south and closer to Boston. This defiance of orders was typical of American movements at the time since the militia was made up of units from different counties and cities with no established chain of command.
Across the water in Boston, British General Thomas Gage was informed of the American movements early on the 17th. He began preparing an assault on the peninsula, but the soldiers took their time and didn't begin landing until late in the afternoon. By 3:00 the British began their first assault. American commanders had ordered their soldiers not to fire until the British were within close range in order to assure that every bullet would count since they were very low on ammunition.
The first British assault turned into a massacre as the Americans fired on them as they marched up the hill on Prescott's position. Colonel John Stark repelled another attack on the left flank by British Major General William Howe. Dozens and dozens of British soldiers fell and the survivors were forced to retreat. A second assault had the same results. The British regrouped once again for a third assault, but this time the Americans on Breed's Hill ran out of ammunition. British soldiers crawled over their own dead comrades to get to the top of the hill where hand to hand combat began. The British, who were better equipped with bayonets, finally drove the Americans back across Bunker Hill and across the Charlestown Neck.
The Battle of Bunker Hill was a victory for the British since they took the peninsula, but at an enormous cost, suffering over 1,000 casualties! 226 were killed and over 800 injured. A large chunk of Britain's officer corps in North America was killed or wounded, including the entire field staff of General Howe. The Americans lost 115 killed and 300 wounded, including the President of the Massachusetts Provincial Congress, Dr. Joseph Warren.
News of the battle shocked London to its core. It finally realized that the Americans were not the "rabble" they were thought to be, but a formidable fighting force. The battle also hardened Americans and persuaded many to join the revolutionary cause. The battle was a strategic stalemate, having no real value to either side, but to strengthen their resolve. George Washington would arrive in July and begin the task of forming the militia into an orderly and effective army. They would finally force the British to abandon Boston the following year."
[color=var(--blue-link)]Revolutionary-War-and-Beyond.com (http://revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com/?fbclid=IwAR3Yer_5S4HfDILXDnW67RPDzUqWz_xaAj5Q2Yk-gQpDbjAQFO0iecUWqOI)
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Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2022, 07:08:54 PM
 if they hadn't had to spend the spring bailing out Mussolini's invasion of Greece they might have gotten there.  
yup
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 17, 2022, 08:29:41 PM
Had Der Fuhrer left Manstein/Paulus/Model alone the would have at least fought to a draw.Course the 427,000 Studebakers Uncle Sam sent Uncle Joe got their troops/rocket launchers/artillary to the front  along with what 10 million pairs of boots and the 1,300 locomotives
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2022, 07:55:21 PM
[color=var(--primary-text)]The Dardanelle Pontoon Bridge connected the town of Dardanelle, Arkansas to Russellville across the Arkansas River from 1891 to the early 1920s.
 "It consisted of a series of 72 boats overlaid with wooden planks. It opened for traffic in 1891, and for the small fee of 5 cents an individual could walk across the span to the other side. The cost for wagons was 25 cents, and when cars came along they were charged 50 cents. When a steamboat needed to pass up or down the river, several of the boats were allowed to swing free providing an opening through which the boat passed. Once the boat passed, the pontoons were pulled back into place and connected, and the bridge was ready again for use. Eventually it was replaced in the 1920s by a traditional bridge." (Times Record)
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[color=var(--primary-text)](https://i.imgur.com/547BBFF.png)[/color]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2022, 10:51:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/63HhFn0.png)

I don't know which airport or if this is true of course.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2022, 10:59:00 AM
This Is How Dirac Predicted Antimatter (wondersofphysics.com) (https://www.wondersofphysics.com/2020/07/this-is-how-dirac-predicted-antimatter.html?fbclid=IwAR1SnbHa38uEkW60l-dEjthXVKrDbVics34jCjmPYmKOCPUeOW7Eyq5eqqg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2022, 11:01:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/63HhFn0.png)

I don't know which airport or if this is true of course.
Lived here all my life and know for a fact that our main airport Bush International has never moved the baggage claim nor at Hobby our other airport

looks like fake news to me
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2022, 11:10:43 AM
How a longer walk to baggage reclaim cut complaints | Health & wellbeing | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/sep/07/how-to-beat-bottlenecks-oliver-burkeman)

Further study revealed that passengers spent one minute walking to baggage claim, then seven waiting, prompting some bright spark to devise a solution: switch the arrival gate, so the walk took far longer. The result was less time standing around, and much less grumbling.


I don't know how they could switch the arrival gate to any benefit.  This could well be an urban legend.

United upgrade at Bush airport aims to reduce waits for baggage (chron.com) (https://www.chron.com/business/article/United-upgrade-at-Bush-airport-aims-to-reduce-13477461.php)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2022, 11:15:55 AM
We were waiting in the lounge in ATL looking out over the airport and it's pretty amazing to see all the baggage carts going hither and yon and getting separated and directed to the right place.  Most folks who fly into ATL are changing planes, so it's doubly challenging, it would be fun to see how they do it.  I'm amazed they don't  lose more stuff.

Take a look inside the world´s busiest airport´s baggage handling operations - Power Stow (https://powerstow.com/take-a-look-inside-the-worlds-busiest-airports-baggage-handling-operations/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2022, 12:13:19 PM
How a longer walk to baggage reclaim cut complaints | Health & wellbeing | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/sep/07/how-to-beat-bottlenecks-oliver-burkeman)

Further study revealed that passengers spent one minute walking to baggage claim, then seven waiting, prompting some bright spark to devise a solution: switch the arrival gate, so the walk took far longer. The result was less time standing around, and much less grumbling.


I don't know how they could switch the arrival gate to any benefit.  This could well be an urban legend.

United upgrade at Bush airport aims to reduce waits for baggage (chron.com) (https://www.chron.com/business/article/United-upgrade-at-Bush-airport-aims-to-reduce-13477461.php)


They may have improved baggage operations but never relocated the actual baggage area
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2022, 05:44:03 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/288163790_556482179251437_5092842737146031618_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=kqbRLOZwNRYAX9q0lh6&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-koyFcvvrkInUV5uRUAwUv4HChAGlBuUZ8b4hjtI_KNQ&oe=62B4003D)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2022, 09:36:09 PM
Bermuda has 3 full golf courses.  Water isn't an issue, lol,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2022, 10:29:58 PM
as you know from being in Zona, ya don't need fresh potable water to keep fairways, tee boxes, and greens green
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2022, 11:39:03 PM
You just need $$$
.
Meanwhile, Lake Mead (outside of Vegas) has dropped about 5 feet in the past 2 weeks.  The Hoover Dam may no longer produce any power if this continues.  It's basically had an all-time new low every week since March 1.  America's largest reservoir has 26% the area of when it's a full depth. 
.
But let's have lots of golf courses in the desert.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2022, 07:33:45 AM
Lake Mead is suffering because of low snow melt upstream, in addition to water usage of course.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 20, 2022, 08:34:12 AM
unfortunately the Yellerstone area doesn't flow to Lake Mead
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 20, 2022, 08:38:56 AM
The Great Wall of China was actually built in Inner Mongolia in the 6th century A.D.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on June 20, 2022, 09:42:01 AM
The Great Wall of China was actually built in Inner Mongolia in the 6th century A.D.
how random of you
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2022, 09:51:25 AM
The Mongols were preeiminent in the 13-14th century AD and the Wall did little to deter them.  High winds did once.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 07:29:19 PM
Island Park, Wichita, KS, June 21, 1925 - This tony ballpark is mostly obscure to even the most knowledgeable baseball fan, but 97 years ago on this date it might have been the host to one of the most unimaginable matchup of two teams one could contrive – a squad of Klu Klux Klan vs one of Negro Leaguers.
But it did happen and from all accounts an epic game to witness. The Negro League team was the Wichita Monrovians, a solid unit that mostly barnstormed. They came into the game with a 52-8 record against mostly top amateur clubs and many of these teams were white.
The Klu Klux Klan nine was a local Wichita club that went by the name “Number 6 team”. Little else is known about them or their players who participated in this game.
As for motivation it’s easier to understand why the Monrovians would agree to this game, for one they’re more of a professional team and playing was their way to earn a living. And second, what African-American young man of that era, or any other for that matter, wouldn’t the relish the opportunity to stick it to bigots.
For the Klu Klux Klan it was a little more complicated, but at the time Kansas had a newspaper publisher by the name of William Allen White that was running for Governor in 1924 and was strongly anti-Klan. He was also campaigning to abolish the white supremacist group (I like this guy already) while calling them “self-constituted body of moral idiots.”.
So the sentiment was starting to turn in Kansas against the Klu Klux Klan, and the hate group saw this as a chance to invoke some positive public relations, and hence agreed to the contest.
With both teams agreeing to play and promised a clean game, the attention turned to the fans, at the time it was thought that the Wichita area had up to 6,000 Klan members. Violence from this end was a concern, so much that when a local paper printed an article announcing the game they added:
“Strangle holds, razors and horsewhips, and other violent implements of argument will be barred at the baseball game at Island Park…when the baseball club of Wichita Klan Number 6 goes up against the Wichita Monrovians, Wichita’s crack colored team.
The colored boys are asking all their supporters to be on hand to watch (the) contest…due to the wide difference of the two organizations….the novelty of the game will attract a large crowd of fans altho [sic] both teams say that all the fans will see is baseball”
To make sure the umpires were impartial and without bias, the game was officiated by two white Catholics, ‘Irish’ Garrety and Dan Dwyer.
At game time it was a blistering 102 degrees with strong winds and both teams in the first five innings had scored one run. But then the bats from both sides got cooking in the heat and a tight game turned into a sew saw battle with the Monrovians at the end being on top by a 10-8 score.
Victory was theirs and hate had lost the day.
-Ron A. Bolton

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 21, 2022, 07:47:41 PM
Gotta luv baseball 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2022, 08:50:15 PM
https://youtu.be/wUgwRkXxTDA
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2022, 08:04:49 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Cuyahoga River Catches Fire (1969)

Famously described in a Time magazine article as a river that "oozes rather than flows" and a waterway in which a person "does not drown but decays," Ohio's Cuyahoga River used to be so heavily polluted that it actually caught fire—on more than one occasion. The river fire of 1969, which received national media attention, helped spur the environmental movement of the late 1960s and prompted the creation of the US Environmental Protection Agency.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 22, 2022, 10:05:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Cuyahoga River Catches Fire (1969)

Famously described in a Time magazine article as a river that "oozes rather than flows" and a waterway in which a person "does not drown but decays," Ohio's Cuyahoga River used to be so heavily polluted that it actually caught fire—on more than one occasion. The river fire of 1969, which received national media attention, helped spur the environmental movement of the late 1960s and prompted the creation of the US Environmental Protection Agency.
Definitely not Cleveland's finest moment but it was the inspiration for this fine creation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2022, 11:13:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/W08UdwE.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 22, 2022, 12:39:22 PM
Definitely not Cleveland's finest moment but it was the inspiration for this fine creation.
They leave out Rivers caught fire in Chicago/Pittsburgh/New York also.The story I had read was one Johnny Carson's head writers were from the area.So the Town was used as foil rather than upset ethnics or "The Big Apple".The good thing is today the ecosytem of the plants and wildlife,flowers even plankton in the River have reestablished it self. Real nice taking a stroll thru the  Cuyahoga Valley National Park and along the river,creek and canals.Specialy on hot day  the canopy of trees cools the temps quit considerably
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2022, 01:55:14 PM
From The Tank Museum: Capturing The Monstrous Jagdtiger (warhistoryonline.com) (https://www.warhistoryonline.com/military-vehicle-news/capturing-the-monstrous-jagdtiger.html?fbclid=IwAR1uMqPPxHorHcuWWMe-TuVYoRmHg-AnrgAYqjPwfTLIp8LE7R4LseuNbHY&edg-c=1&A1c=1)

The front armour was almost 10 inches thick and completely proof against all Allied tank and anti-tank guns. A well-camouflaged Jagdtiger in a static position could inflict major damage on Allied tanks.

The Jagdtiger which literally means ‘hunting tiger’ was the heaviest fighting vehicle to see action in the Second World War. The project was started in early 1943, when a proposal was made to fit the 12.8cm Pak 44 gun to a tank destroyer. The chassis was based on the Tiger II, which had been slightly lengthened. This followed the series of Jagdpanzer designs which used the latest tank hulls to mount anti-tank guns in a turretless and therefore was a cheaper design.

(https://i.imgur.com/sHkivsS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 06:52:57 PM
Today in History -- On today’s date 157 years ago during the War Between the States on Friday, June 23, 1865 at Fort Towson near the town of Doaksville in the Choctaw Nation (present-day Oklahoma), & four days after the “Juneteenth” reading of General Order № 3 to the people of Galveston, Texas, famous Cherokee Confederate Brigadier General Stand Watie (1806-1871) surrendered the last sizable Confederate army -- thus becoming the last Confederate general in the field to stand down.
☞General Stand Watie, C.S.A. was also known as Degataga (Cherokee for “Stands Firm”), Standhope Uwatie, & Isaac S. Watie.
☞Note: In the 1976 Clint Eastwood movie “The Outlaw Josey Wales,” the fictional character Lone Watie, portrayed by Chief Dan George (1899-1981), is identified as a nephew of General Stand Watie. Upon meeting Josey Wales, portrayed by Clint Eastwood (born 1930), Lone Watie delivers the following monologue:
I wore this frock coat to Washington before the War. We wore them because we belonged to the Five Civilized Tribes. We dressed ourselves up like Abraham Lincoln.
You know, we got to see the Secretary of the Interior, & he said, “Boy, you boys sure look civilized.”
He congratulated us & he gave us medals for looking so civilized. 
We told him about how our land had been stolen & how our people were dying. When we finished he shook our hands & said: “Endeavor to persevere!”
They stood us in a line: John Jumper, Chili McIntosh, Buffalo Hump, Jim Buckmark, & me -- I am Lone Watie. They took our pictures. And the newspapers said, “Indians vow to endeavour to persevere.”
We thought about it for a long time. “Endeavour to persevere.” And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 07:46:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vkhm1Fb.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2022, 12:50:49 PM
Ya they never bathed

On this date


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2022, 01:59:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZceAdq5.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2022, 06:53:36 PM
Macaroni Penguins (Eudyptes chrysolophus) get their name from the long, orange, yellow, and black feathery crests above their eyes. They were named after “macaroni dandies,” whose hairstyle was fashionable in the 18th century.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2022, 06:54:36 PM
Ya they never bathed

On this date

  • 1974 (https://www.onthisday.com/events/date/1974) Kansas City pitcher Steve Busby retires first 9 White Sox to set AL record with 33 consecutive batsmen retired; Royals still lose, 3-1 to Chicago(what the hell do you have to do to win a game)


I remember Steve
ya do know with a little math.........  9 is only 3 innings
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 25, 2022, 11:52:07 AM
Purple Rain is the sixth studio album by American recording artist Prince, released on June 25, 1984, by Warner Bros. Records and the soundtrack to the 1984 film of the same name.

Anthony Bourdain born june 25,1956
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2022, 01:29:54 PM
The term "autocar" in French means basically a bus.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2022, 04:40:37 PM
People From Outside The United States Share Their Favorite American Foods (ranker.com) (https://www.ranker.com/list/non-americans-favorite-american-foods/will-morgan-1?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=historypost&pgid=642850749204637&utm_campaign=non-americans-favorite-american-foods&fbclid=IwAR27oecjncfi8gk7sWrMeuI15-IGbJre_HpbP9eiZjpRCShwEoAECfzu4BI)

Quote
Spaniard who lives in the States for six years: I liked apple pie, pastrami on rye sandwiches, Tex Mex, all the things you do with sweet potatoes, virtually any item at a Waffle House, bagels, Reuben sandwiches, chicken and waffles, cheesecake, s'mores, chocolate chip cookies, buffalo wings. I never got into peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I tried, but it wasn't for me.
And Redditor u/Sharkdart (https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/vdphma/comment/icnv79q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3):
Quote
I took my German uncle to Waffle House when he visited, I swear that man ordered every item on the menu. Out of all the restaurants we went to, WH is the only one he still talks about.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2022, 09:08:57 AM
Today in Aviation History: The first Production F4U-1 Corsair Made Its First Flight (warbirdsnews.com) (https://warbirdsnews.com/warbird-articles/today-in-aviation-history-the-first-production-f4u-1-corsair-made-its-first-flight.html)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on June 26, 2022, 09:17:45 AM
Today in Aviation History: The first Production F4U-1 Corsair Made Its First Flight (warbirdsnews.com) (https://warbirdsnews.com/warbird-articles/today-in-aviation-history-the-first-production-f4u-1-corsair-made-its-first-flight.html)


My dad served in the Pacific during WW2 and used to say there is nothing that even comes close to the sound of a Corsair starting up its engine 

Im sure he heard it many times
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2022, 09:19:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/TDprVtk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2022, 11:36:11 AM
Unintended Consequences - Part 1: Treason By Other Means.
The Great World War often was a bitter tug of war match between officers with the vision to see the future and their superiors still mired in the past. One example of the former was British officer John Frederick Charles Fuller (photo, left).
In short, Fuller was brilliant, but he rubbed people the wrong way. Still, his keen grasp of tactics was recognized, and during the First World War he became heavily involved in planning tactics for one of the newest British weapons, the tank.
When the tank first appeared on European battlefields it terrified the Germans, but the few successes gained by using tanks generally were not followed up on, and the war ended before visionaries like Fuller truly could demonstrate the full capabilities of the weapon. Had the war gone into 1919, this might have changed.
Fuller was one of a few British officers who saw that the future of warfare was mechanization, but following the war the British Army was downsizing, scrounging for funding, and not particularly interested in the ideas of men such as Fuller and B. H. Liddell Hart regarding the future of tank warfare in Europe.
But while the British were not especially interested in what Fuller had to say, there was someone else who was absorbing everything he could on emerging tank doctrine.....
In Germany, a veteran officer named Heinz Guderian (photo, bottom-right) was devouring every book on mechanized warfare he could find, and a great many of them were coming out of England.
Guderian used what he learned to help shape Germany's tactical theories on tank warfare, and he was able to because, through the books he read, he could have Fuller's theories without having Fuller's problems with superior officers.
Having to start over from scratch following the Versailles treaty, the leadership of the German Army did not feel the need to be as rigid in their doctrine as did the British Army, and so embraced the fast-strike ideas about which Fuller wrote, working them into their own new doctrine of lightning mechanized warfare.
And the rise of fascism on the continent appealed to Fuller, who himself became an avowed fascist, and when Germany began rearming and mechanizing its military in the 1930s, Fuller was there cheering them on, even gaining favor with Hitler himself.
When the Second World War started, the German Army used the ideas they learned from men such as Fuller to great success in the early campaigns. Britain and France, having not been as flexible in the interwar years, were stunned.
Fuller remained a committed fascist, even after the end of the Second World War, even writing toward the end of his life that he believed Germany should have won the war.
While Fuller's delivery of his tactical theories to the enemy originally had been inadvertent, things may have gone very differently had the Great World War not ended in armistice in November of 1918, and his theories on tank warfare instead had been demonstrated clearly to his own side in the proposed campaigns of 1919.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 26, 2022, 03:42:45 PM
When the tank first appeared on European battlefields it terrified the Germans, but the few successes gained by using tanks generally were not followed up on, and the war ended before visionaries like Fuller truly could demonstrate the full capabilities of the weapon. Had the war gone into 1919, this might have changed.
It is interesting, two of the biggest innovations of WWI were poison gas first used by the Germans and the Tank, first used by the English.  Ultimately neither had the immediate impact that they could have because both were first employed in limited quantities.  

Poison Gas:
The Germans actually first used Gas warfare on the Eastern Front against the Russians and only later used it on the Western Front against the English and French.  As amazing as this will seem, apparently the Russians failed to notify their Western allies of the German use of poison gas so even though it had been used first in the East it was still "new" when used in the West.  Nonetheless, the Germans started out only using small quantities, not enough to lead to a the major breakthrough that both sides were seeking.  By the time mass gas attacks were tried, both sides were prepared with the appropriate protective gear.  Furthermore, on the Western Front the Germans were confronted with a problem in that the prevailing wind was toward them so the gas that they used tended to drift back onto their own lines.  

The Tank:
As referenced in the article you quoted, the tank absolutely terrified defenders as local infantry at the time didn't have anything that could take it out.  Worse, tanks were generally too fast (even then) and too small to call in artillery strikes against.  However, the early tanks were terribly unreliable so it didn't take all that long before enough of them were broken down that the rest could be dealt with.  

A mass gas or tank attack before the other side was prepared for it might well have seriously changed the course of the war.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2022, 03:46:51 PM
The thing that sort of almost altered the outcome were the tactics used by the Germans in 1918.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2022, 03:56:59 PM
Marco Polo may be a household name, but few know that his famous literary masterpiece, The Travels of Marco Polo , was not only written while he was in prison, but was penned by somebody else. Marco Polo’s tale of adventure in the Far East became a bestseller when it was published around 1300, inspiring generations of explorers, including Christopher Columbus  (https://www.ancient-origins.net/premium-preview/columbus-0016815)who kept an annotated copy amongst his personal belongings.

The bestselling biography / autobiography / travelogue recounted the experiences of Marco Polo  (https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-famous-people/life-and-adventures-marco-polo-002635)during a 24-year voyage alongside his father and uncle, Niccolò and Maffeo Polo. Originally from a family of well-travelled merchants, Marco Polo  (https://www.ancient-origins.net/history/marco-polo-fictional-character-challenging-historical-tale-merchant-traveler-006945)left Venice at just 17 years old and returned at 41, passing through countries including Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir and China between 1271 and 1295. Marco Polo was even employed at the court of Mongolian emperor Kublai Khan  (https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-famous-people/kublai-khan-mongol-warrior-horseman-hunter-and-powerful-emperor-006033)for 17 years.
The story (https://www.ancient-origins.net/artifacts-ancient-writings/geoffrey-monmouth-0015218) of Marco Polo’s travels included a plethora of useful information for merchants at a time when few Christians had ever travelled into the Far East  (https://www.ancient-origins.net/history/did-jesus-nazareth-travel-far-east-009653), let alone to China. In fact, “the unprecedented in its time,” explained National Geographic  (https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/history-and-civilisation/2019/09/marco-polos-odyssey-spawned-one-of-the-worlds-first-best-sellers).

Nevertheless, the book was actually written by Rustichello of Pisa  (https://www.ancient-origins.net/myths-legends/how-much-what-we-believe-about-ancient-history-really-true-thinking-critically-about-021667), Polo’s cellmate when he was captured and imprisoned as a prisoner of war during a battle between Venice and Genoa in 1298. Some historians have claimed that the entire book is a fabrication, made up of secondhand accounts heard from others. Others believe that Marco Polo  (https://members.ancient-origins.net/articles/marco-polo-fictional-character-challenging-historical-tale-merchant-traveler)never existed at all and was a figment of Rustichello’s active imagination.


Nonetheless, the majority believe that the book (https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/medieval-wife-swap-0015339) is mostly true, with a few embellishments thrown in to improve sales, such as accounts of unicorns (possibly rhinos), pasta growing on trees and even dog-headed humans. This was before the invention of the printing press, and so the book was copied by hand, which didn’t help much in avoiding mistakes, well-meaning alteration and stark differences between copies and translations.

The Travels of Marco Polo  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm9mHAIKo3U), also known as Il milione (in allusion to Polo’s nickname Il milione suggesting a man who invented a million tall tales), is not the only literary masterpiece to have been written in jail (https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-ancient-traditions/prisons-and-imprisonment-ancient-world-punishments-used-maintain-public-020588). Sir Thomas Malory wrote Le Morte d’Arthur , a retelling of the story of King Arthur, while imprisoned at London’s Newgate Prison. Miguel de Cervantes claimed that the prologue to Don Quixote was “begotten in prison (https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/prison-mosaic-0016595).” Whether or not this is true is another matter.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2022, 03:31:42 PM
“Woods now U.S. Marine Corps entirely.” Major M. Shearer’s report to HQ, June 26, 1918, Belleau Wood, France. 
Today, June 26th, marks the 104th anniversary of the end of the Battle of Belleau Wood, one of the most ferocious battles in U.S. Marine Corps history.
The battle lasted from June 1st to June 26th, 1918, near the Marne River in France. It was part of the German Spring Offensive of 1918, which hoped to defeat the Allied forces on the Western Front before the full strength of the U.S. military reached France. In late May 1918, the third German offensive of the year penetrated the Western Front to within 60 miles of Paris.
On June 1, German troops attacked French forces and reached their objectives, moving into the area and occupying Belleau Wood. U.S. 2nd Division, which included 5th and 6th Marine Regiments, set up defensive positions south of the woods, ordering the Marines to “hold where they stand.” On June 2nd, Germans troops moved through the woods and attacked the Marines, who mowed down a wave after wave of Germans with deadly accurate rifle fire, halting their line. Other elements of Allied forces were not as successful, and many French commanders urged the Marines to retreat before the Germans re-organize. This led to one of the most famous Marine retorts, uttered by Captain Lloyd Williams of 2nd Battalion 5th Marines; “Retreat? Hell, we just got here.”
Over the next two days, Marines repelled continuous German attacks, which allowed the allied forces to prepare and launch a counterattack on June 6th. Marines from 1st Battalion 5th Marines were ordered to take the Hill 142, west of the woods. As they crossed the now-famous wheat fields with their bayonets fixed, they were met by German troops who set well-defended positions supported by deadly machine gun and artillery fire. On that morning, many Marines were cut down in those wheat fields; however, 1/5 was able to overcome the odds and capture Hill 142, uprooting the entrenched Germans.
With the left flank secured, 3rd Battalion 5th Marines and 3rd Battalion 6th Marines were ordered to advance into Belleau Woods from the west and clear it out. These Marines, again, had to push across the open wheat field, facing a well-entrenched enemy. During this attack, winner of 2 Medals of Honor, Gunnery Sergeant Dan Daly, motivated his men with the now most iconic Marine Battle quote, “Come on, you sons of bitches, do you want to live forever?”
Soon enough, Marines of 3/6 and 3/5 were engaged in some of the heaviest fighting in Marine Corps history. The German infantry had well-established trench lines that were covered by interlocking machine gun fields of fire, barbed wire, and individual fighting positions. As the Marines pushed through these defenses, the battle turned into the most brutal hand-to-hand fight for life and death. When the dust settled, the Marines gained a stronghold in the woods.
Over the next three weeks, Marines attacked the woods six times before they were able to expel the Germans fully. On June 26, 1918, 3rd Battalion 5th Marines, under the command of Major M. Shearer, made the final attack on Belleau Wood, clearing it of any remaining German forces. Major Shearer sent a report to HQ stating, “Woods now U.S. Marine Corps entirely.” One of the most ferocious battles in U.S. Marine Corps history was over.
U.S. forces suffered 1811 Killed-In-Action and 7966 wounded in the Battle of Belleau Wood. After the battle, the French renamed the wood "Bois de la Brigade de Marine" ("Wood of the Marine Brigade") in honor of the Marines' tenacity. The French government awarded the Marines with the “Croix de Guerre” and Marines of 5th and 6th Marine Regiments are still allowed to wear the “French Fourragere” on their uniforms as a symbol of their regiments’ valor during the battle.
This battle also cemented the U.S. Marine Corps’ place in modern warfare as a highly effective fighting force. Official German reports classified the Marines as “vigorous, self-confident, and remarkable marksman…” They compelled General Pershing, commander of the American Expeditionary Force, to proclaim that “the deadliest weapon in the world is a United States Marine and his rifle.” The legend has it that after the battle, the Germans began to call the Marines “Teufelshunde” or “Devil Dogs.” Over the past 100 years, the Marines have lived up to the high standard set by the Belleau Woods Marines on the battlefields all over the world, and they keep proving that U.S. Marine Corps is the deadliest fighting force in modern history.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2022, 03:25:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/aRnV81q.png)

Ute Pass, CO, circa 1860 gold rush era.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2022, 07:23:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/6etPTIN.png)

P-47D being restored.  The engine is the R2800 Double Wasp with 2800 cid.


[th]Major applications[/th]
Convair CV-240 family (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_CV-240_family)
Douglas A-26 Invader (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_A-26_Invader)
Douglas DC-6 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-6)
Grumman F6F Hellcat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F6F_Hellcat)
Martin B-26 Marauder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_B-26_Marauder)
Republic P-47 Thunderbolt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_P-47_Thunderbolt)
Vought F4U Corsair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_F4U_Corsair)
[th]Produced[/th]
1939-1960

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 29, 2022, 09:18:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/aRnV81q.png)

Ute Pass, CO, circa 1860 gold rush era.


The more I've explored out west here, my opinion of those early pioneers has progressed from impressed to thinking they were nucking futs.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2022, 08:30:02 AM
I think the motivations of early explorers in the West has to be judged relative to where they started and conditions extant there.  Life back then was hard for most.

I've seen the path up the mountain to the Yukon gold fields, it's nuts too.

(https://i.imgur.com/sYMJW2W.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2022, 08:45:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nqrOvHB.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2022, 01:03:09 PM
Pirates Nationals appeal play fourth out rule (mlb.com) (https://www.mlb.com/news/pirates-nationals-appeal-play-fourth-out-rule?fbclid=IwAR2nOts852et5Lft1Pxfg9RM7tD8GcPgsGT0rkBhLOg47KgOlsXBFuqCWH4)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2022, 08:08:27 AM
The man who stole the Mona Lisa from the Louvre in 1911 had helped build the glass case that held the painting. He hid in the broom closet overnight and then walked out in the morning. He was Italian and believed the painting belonged to Italy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2022, 09:40:50 AM
502 years ago today in 1520, Hernán Cortés and around 1000 Spanish soldiers are driven out of the Aztec capital of Tenochtitlan, barely escaping and losing 2/3rds of their men in an event known as La Noche Triste (The Sad Night).
Cortés landed in Mexico in 1519 without permission from his superiors in search of gold and glory. Fortunately for him, the Aztec’s brutal rule over the land allowed him to receive crucial support from 10,000’s of native peoples. The Aztec ruler Montezuma II first tried to buy off the Spanish with gold. He then brought Cortés and his soldiers to the capital where the Spaniards lived as his guests for several months until they made the Aztec leader a prisoner in his own palace. Montezuma continued to govern his empire with Spanish influence greatly upsetting his people.
In early June, Cortés left the city to deal with a Spanish force that came to arrest him. He was able to surprise and kill its leader. Cortés then told the defeated soldiers about the riches of Tenochtitlan and they agreed to join him reinforcing his total strength. Along with this reinforcement of fresh European troops, a larger number of Native allies would join Cortés on his return to Tenochtitlan.  While he was gone, the Spanish garrison with Montezuma obtained information that the Aztecs were about to attack them and carried out preemptive slaughter of Aztec nobles and priests celebrating a festival in the city's main temple. The Aztecs laid siege to the palace and when Cortés returned, he forced Montezuma to address his people and tell them to let the Spanish leave in peace. But the Aztecs threw rocks at him and elected a new leader, and continuous fighting would occur exhausting the Spanish supplies.
After promising a ceasefire and to return the treasure, on the night of July 1st the Spanish carrying as much loot as they could quietly began to leave the city on an unguarded bridge/causeway. But they were noticed and the alarm sounded, 50,000 Aztecs swarmed on the Spanish and their native allies. During the Spaniards’ retreat, they lost 2/3rds of their European soldiers, including their skilled ship builder. But two weeks later the Spaniards managed to defeat a larger Aztec army at the battle of Otumba and were able to link up with native Tlaxcaltec allies. Almost a year later in May 1521, Cortés returned to Tenochtitlan and placed it under siege for 3 months until it was captured.  After the fall of their capital Tenochtitlan and execution of their emperor, the Aztec empire faded, and Cortés became the ruler of the vast Mexican empire soon called New Spain.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2022, 09:54:32 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of Gettysburg Begins (1863)
The Battle of Gettysburg was the bloodiest battle of the American Civil War, resulting in some 50,000 casualties in three days. It took place in and around the town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, and signaled a turning of the tide in favor of the Union. The site is now a national cemetery, at whose dedication on November 19, 1863, President Abraham Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg Address. Seamstress Ginnie Wade was the only documented civilian casualty of the battle.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2022, 10:10:35 AM
It reminds me in some ways of the battle of Kursk in 1943.  Neither the Germans nor the Confederates were able to mount much of an offensive after that, Battle of the Bulge arguably excepted.  And Vicksburg also fell which cut the latter in half.  That was also a major event, and put Grant in charge eventually.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 01, 2022, 11:51:10 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PAEK3nw.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 01, 2022, 12:02:47 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Battle of Gettysburg Begins (1863)
The Battle of Gettysburg was the bloodiest battle of the American Civil War, resulting in some 50,000 casualties in three days. It took place in and around the town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, and signaled a turning of the tide in favor of the Union. The site is now a national cemetery, at whose dedication on November 19, 1863, President Abraham Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg Address. Seamstress Ginnie Wade was the only documented civilian casualty of the battle.
The site is worth a visit and if you want to combine it with a football trip, it isn't far from the University of Maryland. Civil War battlefields, however, are best viewed at the same time of year as the battle, you get a better feel for it that way.

I think that Gettysburg may be somewhat overhyped as a "turning point" in that I don't think it turned the tide so much as it reflected that the tide had been turned by Northern advantages in population and industrial capacity. 

That said, Gettysburg was the last real chance that the Confederacy had to achieve independence on the battlefield. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 01, 2022, 12:17:44 PM
That A-Hole Dan Sickles  almost singlehandedly got himself killed and and II Corp wiped out and and almost lost the battle on the 2nd day as he moved his men out of the Peach Orchard exposing union flanks.The real crime is he went back to Washington,sans his leg and told Lincoln and anyone else that would listen how Meade faffed things up and he saved the day.When in fact the exact opposite was true.George Gordon Meade never got the credit that he deserved. Six months earlier at Fredricksburg on the Union's far left he for a time took some small units and actually was rolling up Stonewall Jackson Brigade but Burnside was getting his troops destroyed repeatedly on the other side going up marye's Heights.Had Burnside supported Meade who was a topographical engineer who knows how things would have went.Had either Burnside or Sickles both been killed in '62 the war could have ended sooner - they were both that bad
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2022, 12:25:07 PM
That said, Gettysburg was the last real chance that the Confederacy had to achieve independence on the battlefield.
I think this is true.  In my alternate history, I had Jackson present on Day One and he managed to take the heights above the town, but Meade just put everyone at Pipe Creek, which was a very defensible position.  Jackson's corps was too beat up to follow quickly.

The North had a lot of poor generals, the south had some but not as bad and not in as critical positions usually.

Lincoln aged greatly.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 01, 2022, 01:48:52 PM
I think this is true.  In my alternate history, I had Jackson present on Day One and he managed to take the heights above the town, but Meade just put everyone at Pipe Creek, which was a very defensible position.  Jackson's corps was too beat up to follow quickly.

The North had a lot of poor generals, the south had some but not as bad and not in as critical positions usually.

Lincoln aged greatly.
Lee's decision to launch Pickett's Charge has been roundly criticized ever since the battle starting with his subordinate Generals pretty much unanimously opposing the idea. From a tactical perspective these criticisms are and Lee's subordinates were right, it was a terrible mistake for which the Confederacy paid a horrific price.

That said, I think that Lee was right to send the Charge on a strategic level. At that point in the war the Union was gaining strength while the Confederacy was loosing strength. Thus, there was simply never going to be a better opportunity for the Confederates. The odds of Pickett's Charge succeeding were long but the odds of success in later campaigns would necessarily be longer. Ie, their chances weren't good but they were getting worse every month.

Pickett himself was strongly opposed to the Charge which is ironic since it has been known ever since by his name.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2022, 01:51:28 PM
Longstreet apparently advocated for a flanking move.  I think Lee, missing Jackson, was unsure of that approach now.  He liked to use Longstreet as the anvil but he had no Jackson.  I think it was lost on the first day, not the third.  The third just made it official.

Then Meade as usual was very slow to follow up when Lee finally pulled out (it was raining).

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 01, 2022, 02:47:16 PM
Then Meade as usual was very slow to follow up when Lee finally pulled out (it was raining).
For years I wanted to know more about this.

Background for those unfamiliar (of which I understand that you, @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) are not one):

At Gettysburg the Union line was actually South of the Confederate line because the Union Army had come up (North) from DC to contest Lee's invasion.

Thus, once the battle ended it would have been theoretically possible for Meade and the Union Army to trap the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia in Pennsylvania and disconnected from their supply lines. Had this been successfully accomplished the Army of Northern Virginia could have been destroyed (nearly everyone either killed or captured) and the war may well have ended in 1862.

Meade has been criticized ever since for failing to grasp this strategic opportunity. The criticism started immediately with President Lincoln supposedly saying that "He (Meade) had the Confederate Army in the palm of his hand and failed to grasp it." Later, political opponents of Meade in Congress latched on and historians even today frequently advance some form of the same basic arguments.

I always wanted to know more because it is frequently presented as such an obvious opportunity that one has to wonder how Meade could possibly have failed to see it.

Several years ago I read Retreat from Gettysburg: Lee, Logistics, and the Pennsylvania Campaign by Kent Masterson Brown. Link:  https://www.amazon.com/Retreat-Gettysburg-Logistics-Pennsylvania-Campaign/dp/0807872091

I warn all that this is a tedious read.

The gist of what I learned was this:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2022, 03:33:37 PM
The Potomac was also at flood stage, and it was raining.

Lee Escapes from Gettysburg | HistoryNet (https://www.historynet.com/lee-escapes-from-gettysburg/)

This is a pretty good summary I think.  I'm reminded a bit of the first battle of Bull Run when the Union army was fleeing, and the rebels were so disorganized they couldn't follow.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 01, 2022, 04:01:18 PM
The Potomac was also at flood stage, and it was raining.

Lee Escapes from Gettysburg | HistoryNet (https://www.historynet.com/lee-escapes-from-gettysburg/)

This is a pretty good summary I think.  I'm reminded a bit of the first battle of Bull Run when the Union army was fleeing, and the rebels were so disorganized they couldn't follow.
That was a pretty good and fair assessment. It mentions many of Meade's issues. The book I linked above is, more-or-less, a book-length version of that article. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2022, 08:59:19 AM
Masada is a mountaintop fortress in Israel. According to the ancient historian Josephus, it was fortified by Herod the Great in the 1st century BCE. In 66 CE, at the beginning of the Jewish uprising against the Romans, a group of rebels captured Masada. They retained control of the fortress until 73 CE, when, besieged by the Romans, they committed mass suicide rather than surrender. Excavated in the 1950s and 60s, Masada is now a major tourist attraction.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2022, 09:00:38 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Revolt Aboard the Amistad (1839)
In 1839, 53 African slaves being transported on the Spanish merchant ship La Amistad revolted against their captors. Having gained control of the ship, they demanded that the navigator set a course for Africa. However, he deceived them and sailed the ship northward until it was intercepted by the US Navy off the coast of New York. After a widely publicized court battle, the Supreme Court ruled that the Africans were not legally slaves and ordered them freed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2022, 09:04:26 AM
Today in History

Today is Saturday, July 2, the 183rd day of 2022. There are 182 days left in the year.

Today’s Highlight in History:

On July 2, 1937, aviator Amelia Earhart and navigator Fred Noonan disappeared over the Pacific Ocean while attempting to make the first round-the-world flight along the equator.

On this date:

In 1566, French astrologer, physician and professed prophesier Nostradamus died in Salon (sah-LOHN’).

In 1776, the Continental Congress passed a resolution saying that “these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent States.”

In 1881, President James A. Garfield was shot by Charles J. Guiteau (gee-TOH’) at the Washington railroad station; Garfield died the following September. (Guiteau was hanged in June 1882.)

In 1917, rioting erupted in East St. Louis, Illinois, as white mobs attacked Black residents; nearly 50 people, mostly Blacks, are believed to have died in the violence.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2022, 10:35:29 PM
perhaps Cincy can cornfirm or deny...............

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/289812545_10225502451645780_6474300044296104064_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=FOQ1b1QU7DsAX9wgP9i&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-REDKRw5gOW_OMipccM99nixo9An_rbaTeWQIrqLbRzQ&oe=62C67737)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2022, 07:57:26 AM
Martin Van Buren was the first U.S. president to be born a United States citizen. All previous presidents were born British subjects.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2022, 08:18:19 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/291561000_596328461859458_3633204439752192903_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=XKZ9602fPtoAX91rq9i&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9DUZ944iCrG8bp3g6wRf7nC-OkBoB-GvT9x1_8FX3FKw&oe=62C75433)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2022, 08:25:59 AM
I don't think citrate is a secret ingredient at all of course.  The term apparently is "emlusifying salt", which is new to me.  Interesting, sodium replaces calcium which otherwise crosslinks the proteins in cheese.  I did not know this.  Ha.



Emulsifying salts – EU Specialty Food Ingredients (https://www.specialtyfoodingredients.eu/ingredients_cat/emulsifying-salts/#:~:text=Emulsifying salts are used in,on the casein milk proteins.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 03, 2022, 09:42:16 AM
On this date in 1863 a small detachment of the 8th ohio who were in a forward position of the union lines on Cemetary Ridge.The left flank of Davis’ Brigade of Pettigrew/Trimble’s Division, Army of the Northern Virginia.
Following a lengthy cannonade in the early afternoon, over 12,000 Confederates under George Pickett, Isaac R. Trimble, and Johnston Pettigrew stepped off from Seminary Ridge and marched towards the Union line on Cemetery Ridge. Facing a force several times its number, the 8th Ohio held its advanced position and was able to flank portions of a Virginia brigade under Col. John M. Brockenbrough. Assisted by artillery fire from Cemetery Hill and Ziegler's Grove, the 8th succeeded in routing much of Brockenbrough's force, the first brigade to ever break and flee during Lee's tenure in command of the Army of Northern Virginia. The 8th then shifted and poured fire into the flank of other Confederate regiments. As the assault waned, the regiment collected over 300 prisoners of war.[3] As the Ohioans reentered the Union lines, they were given a salute of arms and cheers from the other regiments.
[color=var(--yt-endpoint-color,var(--yt-spec-call-to-action))]https://www.oldgloryprints.com/8th%20Ohio%20at%20Gettysburg.htm[/color]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2022, 10:25:29 AM
After the outbreak of WW2, Admiral Scheer underwent a refit and was despatched to the Atlantic to commence commerce raiding operations against merchant shipping. In the course of her raiding operation, she had steamed over 46,000 nautical miles and sunk seventeen merchant ships for a total of 113,223 GRT. The Admiral Scheer was involved in several further operations during the war in Norway and the Baltic, but by 1945 the ships guns were badly worn and in need of repair. The Admiral Scheer arrived in the German port city of Kiel that same year to have the stern turret guns replaced, but during the refit the port was bombed by 300 RAF bombers, resulting in several bombs striking the Admiral Scheer causing her to capsize.

After the war, the Admiral Scheer was partially broken up, but the sheer size of the ship’s hull was too immense for the post-war government to financially warrant the endeavour of completely salvaging the wrecked husk. The ports inner harbours was filled in with material from the bombed-out ruins of Kiel, burying the Admiral Scheer beneath rubble and debris, where she still lays at rest today beneath the Ellerbrek district of Kiel.

(https://i.imgur.com/KWJ0WeZ.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 04, 2022, 06:51:20 PM
The Mohs Scale of Mineral Hardness

The Mohs scale of mineral hardness characterizes the scratch resistance of various minerals, through the ability of a harder material to scratch a softer one and not be scratched by it. While the varying hardness of stones was likely first explored around 300 BCE, German mineralogist Friedrich Mohs devised his scale in 1812. It uses 10 standards ranging from talc, the softest, with a value of 1, to diamond, the hardest, with a value of 10.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 04, 2022, 08:03:45 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
West Point Opens (1802)
Before it was home to young men and women training to be US Army officers, West Point, New York, was the site of a military post. Congress signed legislation establishing the United States Military Academy there in 1802, though it was initially an apprentice school for military engineers. Its curriculum broadened in 1866, and, after World War I, Superintendent Douglas MacArthur pushed for major changes in the physical fitness and athletic programs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2022, 09:36:24 PM
[img width=728.287 height=539.977 alt=May be an image of text that says 'B1G BIG TEN MEMBERSHIP TIMELINE Last 30 Years Ucla UCLA & USC: 2024 M O R Maryland & Rutgers: 2014 N Nebraska: 2011 Penn State 1993 KEVIN WARREN BIG TEN STATEMENT leadership of Chancellor Gene Block. LIVE B1G NETWORK']https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/291561000_596328461859458_3633204439752192903_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=XKZ9602fPtoAX91rq9i&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9DUZ944iCrG8bp3g6wRf7nC-OkBoB-GvT9x1_8FX3FKw&oe=62C75433[/img]
Shows this to a Big Ten team fan in 1987:
[img width=499.988 height=332.998]https://i.imgur.com/MSkgSm2.jpg[/img]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2022, 08:13:31 AM
A diamond is hardest  because it's pure carbon where each carbon is attached to the next in the ideal geometry.  Boron nitride in cubic form is second hardest.

Graphite is also pure carbon in a different structure.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2022, 10:10:02 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/TXaWK1D.png)

Happy (almost) bridge opening day! On July 1, 1940 the original Tacoma Narrows Bridge opened with much fanfare. The bridge was a big deal to residents of the area, who formerly had to make the crossing via a ferry or driving around.

Learn more about the history of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge in 700 FEET DOWN, now available for free on Tubi and Vudu!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2022, 09:14:52 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Hartford Circus Fire (1944)
The Hartford Circus Fire was one of the worst fire disasters in US history. While thousands of spectators in Hartford, Connecticut, were enjoying an afternoon performance of the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus, a fire broke out in the tent. The big top, waterproofed with a coating of paraffin and gasoline, quickly collapsed in flames, trapping hundreds beneath it. About 169 people died.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on July 06, 2022, 09:27:36 AM
Well that's horrible.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2022, 09:55:25 AM
did all the elephants get out alive???
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on July 06, 2022, 10:15:16 AM
This one probably did:

(https://i.imgur.com/GzJFW1S.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2022, 10:41:12 AM
I made a D in freshman chemistry.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2022, 10:43:31 AM
weird
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on July 06, 2022, 10:54:09 AM
I made an A in freshman chemistry at UT.  My high school chemistry teacher was a bad-arse, and college chemistry was much easier. 

  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2022, 10:57:08 AM
I had two years oif chem in HS and placed out of the first quarter at UGA, which probably was a mistake.  It was not like HS.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on July 06, 2022, 11:09:40 AM
I had two years oif chem in HS and placed out of the first quarter at UGA, which probably was a mistake.  It was not like HS.
Yeah I specifically chose not to place out of chemistry, because I wasn't certain how much more/less advanced the college course was, and I didn't want to miss something that I might need later.  Turned out okay for me because it was an easy A, and those became VERY hard to come by as I advanced through the electrical engineering curriculum toward my degree.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 06, 2022, 02:27:29 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY
1775
July 06
Congress issues a “Declaration on the Causes and Necessity of Taking Up Arms”

On July 6, 1775, one day after restating their fidelity to King George III (https://www.history.com/topics/british-history/george-iii) and wishing him “a long and prosperous reign” in the Olive Branch Petition (https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/congress-adopts-olive-branch-petition), Congress sets “forth the causes and necessity of their taking up arms” against British authority in the American colonies (https://www.history.com/topics/colonial-america/thirteen-colonies). The declaration also proclaimed their preference “to die free men rather than live as slaves.”



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2022, 10:04:10 PM
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-story-of-robert-lee-scott-the-p-40-pilot-who-waged-a-one-man-war-against-imperial-japan-and-became-avg-commander-when-the-unit-became-the-23rd-fighter-group/ (https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-story-of-robert-lee-scott-the-p-40-pilot-who-waged-a-one-man-war-against-imperial-japan-and-became-avg-commander-when-the-unit-became-the-23rd-fighter-group/)


Flying Tigers: From AVG to 23rd Fighter Group.
On Jul. 4, 1942, the American Volunteer Group (AVG) (https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-death-of-a-flying-tiger-ace-the-final-flight-of-bill-reed-chinas-shining-mark/), which had achieved worldwide fame as the “Flying Tigers” (https://theaviationgeekclub.com/how-a-luftwaffe-sharkmouthed-me-110-inspired-flying-tigers-legendary-tiger-mouth-insignia/) officially ceased to be. Instead, the newest Fighter Group in the US Army Air Force (USAAF) (https://theaviationgeekclub.com/did-you-know-that-in-the-1960s-china-used-the-soviet-copy-of-the-b-29-to-intercept-cia-b-17-and-p-2-spy-flights-from-taiwan/) was established, with a small cadre of AVG pilots providing a core for the unit while it stood up as a combat unit. The vast majority of AVG pilots had already left, including Greg Hallenbeck/Boyington. Others had stuck things out till their year long contracts had expired. A few agreed to remain to help the new unit gain the benefit of their hard-won experience. They had retreated from Burma, seeing that corner of the British Empire fall, yet remaining intact as a unit despite the inevitable losses they had taken.
The behind-the-scenes machinations of various commands to take over the AVG is beyond the scope of this account, suffice to say it was a strategic matter discussed at the highest levels of US Military command. In many ways the AVG was embarrassment to the Military. Ostensibly Civilian, yet with higher pay than the military, the AVG had managed to achieve some of the only combat Victories scored by US Flying forces. Now that the war was over 6 months old, they remained an anomaly, a unit of Civilians in a War fought by a nation mobilizing its resources and people to fight around the world. The sooner they were inducted as a regular unit, the better.
Unfortunately, this pragmatic command view from Washington failed to take into account realities on the ground, where Major General Clayton Bissell and Brigadier General Claire Chennault clashed over control over a unit which at peak strength prewar never numbered more than a single Pursuit Group. Regarded prewar as a Maverick who refused to toe the Air Force’s Party Line that Bombing was the wave of the future, the hierarchy of the Air Force was now able to impose its will and induct the AVG into its organization. Unfortunately, General Bissell managed to alienate the pilots in his new command to such an extent by threatening to draft them upon their return home, that the vast majority left in disgust.
[img width=730 height=589.475 alt=The story of Robert Lee Scott, the P-40 pilot who waged a one-man war against Imperial Japan and became AVG commander when the unit became the 23rd Fighter Group]https://theaviationgeekclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/P-40s.jpg[/img]Famous En Echelon photo taken by AVG Pilot RT Smith, showing the 3rd Pursuit Squadron of the AVG, nicknamed the “Hells Angels” after the famous Howard Hughes film, something which inspired many of these future fighter pilots when they were kids fascinated by flight.[/size][/color]

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 06, 2022, 10:14:25 PM
I enjoyed Chem Lab in college.  Chem, not so much.  But the lab was at like 8pm.  Made for long days.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2022, 11:01:33 AM
Alan Reed, Fred
Jean Vander Pyl, Wilma
Bea Benaderet, Betty
Mel Blanc, Barney, Dino and many others..


(https://scontent-msp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/291875085_5192321917530306_5734730290665441592_n.jpg?stp=cp1_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=1_FhM9HerhwAX8PSXUi&tn=h3RKF0195C_Cy8Vu&_nc_ht=scontent-msp1-1.xx&oh=00_AT81Srnr8mrTTPvQvCBUGHG639188ILy91RstZxmVkuGgQ&oe=62CB06B4)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2022, 03:55:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Jcgujr6.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 07, 2022, 06:47:52 PM
Not sure if the Niekro's thru over 65mph
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2022, 07:18:56 AM
Joe threw around 70 mph, abouut a HS fastball on average.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2022, 09:22:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/OxGWUiD.png)

This likely is true, controlled airspace includes anything between 18,000 feet and 60,000 feet, above that you don't need a clearance.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 09, 2022, 08:43:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/qp5cn1L.jpg)
(Florida was 7-4, not 9-4)

(https://i.imgur.com/Kc4so4x.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on July 09, 2022, 10:01:14 PM
The helmet projects workload has become infinitely harder in the past decade. I've often thought about doing best helmet as an OT topic, but I worry it just devolves into a Homer debate.  I wonder if a better poll would be best 20th century alternate/classic helmet?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2022, 08:49:46 AM
Over the last 50 years, the University of Nebraska Football team has, for the most part, had the same uniforms with only slight variations. It wasn’t until the 2009 season that Nebraska would even wear what we would call alternate uniforms, and over that period, they would stumble onto some unique designs.

Remember that time Nebraska wore a two-toned color helmet?

Or the first time they wore black jerseys in a game?

How about a throwback to a team from the past?

There have been some good, bad, and ugly alternate jerseys for Nebraska football, but it’s never a bad idea to refresh yourself on what those jerseys looked like.


https://cornhuskerswire.usatoday.com/lists/looking-back-at-50-years-of-cornhusker-uniforms/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1MwROwqNFjX0CvXHX_JPKdGZ4O120iS7SitWbBVrMwpr8WpB7ZQGr6gTU (https://cornhuskerswire.usatoday.com/lists/looking-back-at-50-years-of-cornhusker-uniforms/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1MwROwqNFjX0CvXHX_JPKdGZ4O120iS7SitWbBVrMwpr8WpB7ZQGr6gTU)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on July 10, 2022, 09:55:54 AM
The ones with stripes down the side were horrible.  I want to say the same year Notre Dame did as well.  MSU and Miami had some weird piping too.  The early 2000s were full of weird piping on uniforms
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2022, 10:13:26 AM
I blame Oregon and Nike
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2022, 10:02:38 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
S.A. Andrée Attempts to Reach the North Pole by Balloon (1897)
After gaining funding from the likes of King Oscar II and Alfred Nobel and generating widespread public interest, Swedish explorer Salomon August Andrée and two companions departed from Norway's Svalbard for the North Pole in a hydrogen balloon. They flew for two days before a hydrogen leak grounded the balloon, forcing the poorly equipped trio to travel on pack ice. Three months later, the men reached the island of Kvitøya, where they eventually died.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 06:44:31 AM
The helmet projects workload has become infinitely harder in the past decade. I've often thought about doing best helmet as an OT topic, but I worry it just devolves into a Homer debate.  I wonder if a better poll would be best 20th century alternate/classic helmet?

You could ask who has the best helmet outside teams you support.  But it's still qualitative and opinion.

The most distinctive helments would include, IMHO, ND and Michigan.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2022, 09:08:18 AM
I like the tradition of the painting of the helmets at ND
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2022, 09:08:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Medal of Honor Authorized by US Congress (1862)
The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration awarded by the US. It is presented by the president for "gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of…life above and beyond the call of duty" while engaged in an action against an enemy. Members of all branches of the US military are eligible to receive the medal, but each branch has its own special design. The Philadelphia Mint designed the medal, which was first awarded during the Civil War.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2022, 09:50:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Blackout Engulfs New York City (1977)
The New York City blackout of 1977 came at a low point in New York history, when the city was facing a financial crisis and being terrorized by the "Son of Sam" murderer. The blackout lasted only one night, but when it was over, a record 3,776 people had been arrested, and looting, vandalism, and arson had caused an estimated $300 million worth of damage. The chain of events that sparked the blackout began when the power failed in Westchester County.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 09:24:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Football War Breaks Out in Honduras (1969)
The Football War was a four-day war fought between El Salvador and Honduras. Though political tensions between Hondurans and Salvadorans were the main factors contributing to the war's outbreak, hostility between the two countries was further inflamed by rioting when they met during a qualifying round for the 1970 FIFA World Cup. Though short-lived, the war claimed thousands of lives and displaced several hundred thousand people.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on July 14, 2022, 01:52:46 PM
I wonder when FIFA started their policy of not allowing countries with existing tensions to play then?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 06:11:53 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/1crRIB2.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2022, 10:56:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP6TDm3C9fQ
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2022, 08:50:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Teutonic Knights Defeated at Battle of Grunwald (1410)
Early in the 15th century, the Teutonic Order, a German military religious order founded during the Third Crusade, sought to expand its influence over Lithuania and Poland. Though its purported mission was to spread Christianity, it invaded the already Christian nations and was defeated at the Battle of Grunwald. Afterward, the Order's strength waned, and today it exists only as a clerical organization.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2022, 09:31:33 AM

on July 11th in 1953, Major John Bolt became the first USMC jet ace of the Korean War while flying an F-86 Sabre.  He was an exchange pilot with the USAF during his air victories. He served under the leadership of triple ace Captain Joseph McConnell.
His total of 6 confirmed victories were against Mig-15's.  He was also an ace in WWII flying with VMF-214 Blacksheep in F4U Corsairs and was credited with 6 victories over Japanese Zeros. 
When he passed away in 2004, he was the last of the seven pilots who were dual aces in WWII and Korea.



(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/293335773_2072493082937013_8873908196950855775_n.png?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SwD-VZpLxfoAX-5cK6o&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8loHz7KrxqkivyxkV6bTYV-HeNbStzrkN1RxOsr-qMiw&oe=62D57EAB)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 16, 2022, 10:59:15 AM
77 years ago this morning the very first atomic device explosion was conducted as a test in the New Mexico desert.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2022, 11:01:38 AM
Yup, they tested the Nagasaki design as they weren't sure it would work.  The Hiroshima type was never tested before use, it was a simpler device.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 16, 2022, 11:21:10 AM
Yup, they tested the Nagasaki design as they weren't sure it would work.  The Hiroshima type was never tested before use, it was a simpler device.
Yes, Nagasaki bomb was much more powerful but did less damage because it exploded well off target with the blast contained by the terrain. Hiroshima bomb was much simpler and less powerful but almost exactly on target. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2022, 11:31:32 AM
It's pretty amazing they developed two very different atomic bombs at the same time, in effect, using two parallel approaches.  One required generation of a new element, plutonium.  There was some serious brain power afoot there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2022, 03:11:39 PM
On July 22, 1864, a massive battle raged in the modern-day neighborhoods of Inman Park, Reynoldstown, Edgewood, Candler Park, Kirkwood, East Atlanta and Grant Park. The battle's front line ran along (what is now) Moreland Avenue and stretched from East Atlanta Village to the Inman Park MARTA station.

During the fateful encounter, 75,000 troops (dressed in wool uniforms @ 94-degree heat) engaged in fierce hand-to-hand combat. By the time the sun set that day, eyewitnesses reported seeing a "river of blood" flowing down Bald Hill, which stood where the eastbound exit ramp for Moreland Ave comes off of I-20 today. The nine-hour battle, which resulted in 9,200 casualties, would claim the lives of two major generals: James Birdseye McPherson (USA, 35 years old) and William Henry Talbot Walker (CSA, 47 years old).
Commanding (USA) General William Tucumseh Sherman watched the battle unfold from his vantage point where the Carter Center stands today. Commanding (CSA) General John Bell Hood did the same from his vantage point, which was located on the highest point of what is now Historic Oakland Cemetery. These are the starting and ending points of this 3-hour walking tour.
Some of the most intense fighting took place late that afternoon in an area known as the "Railroad Cut." That was located where the Inman Park MARTA station stands today. That specific scene was immortalized in the historic painting known as the Atlanta Cyclorama, which now lives at the Atlanta History Center in Buckhead.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2022, 03:12:46 PM
Cyclorama: The Big Picture | Exhibitions | Atlanta History Center (https://www.atlantahistorycenter.com/exhibitions/cyclorama/)

On February 22, 2019, Atlanta History Center opened Cyclorama: The Big Picture, featuring the fully restored cyclorama painting, The Battle of Atlanta.

At the centerpiece of this new multi-media experience is a 132-year-old hand-painted work of art that stands 49 feet tall, is longer than a football field, and weighs 10,000 pounds. This painting is one of only two cycloramas in the United States—the other being the Battle of Gettysburg cyclorama —making Atlanta home to one of America’s largest historic treasures.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2022, 04:37:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/nk3XBPc.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 16, 2022, 04:52:18 PM
77 years ago this morning the very first atomic device explosion was conducted as a test in the New Mexico desert.
Sure that wasn't Keggs and Eggs in C-Bus?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 16, 2022, 04:53:25 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/nk3XBPc.png)
I'd advise you not to take it up
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 16, 2022, 07:07:07 PM
It's pretty amazing they developed two very different atomic bombs at the same time, in effect, using two parallel approaches.  One required generation of a new element, plutonium.  There was some serious brain power afoot there.
It is a reflection of the United State's dominant economic position. 

The US was approximately 50% of the world's industrial capacity. The US was able to build the world's largest navy. By the end of the war the US Navy was literally more powerful than all other navies in the world combined. 

Seriously, think about that. In 1945 if every warship in the world had met somewhere for a gigantic everyone vs US battle, the US would have won. Beyond that, the US would have won by default because only the US had the logistical capacity to fuel and supply a fleet literally anywhere in the world. 

The US also produced astounding quantities of tanks, trucks, supply ships, aircraft, etc.

What makes this even more amazing is that while doing all of the above the US had enough surplus capacity to successfully complete the Manhattan Project at the same time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 17, 2022, 02:25:49 AM
My dad is currently working at Los Alamos.
The last 2 jaunts went on were the nuclear sciences museums in Blue Ridge, TN and there at Los Alamos.  Visit, if you're in the Santa Fe area.  Very thorough, and tons of WWII stuff to look at.  Lifesize replicas of both bombs dropped on Japan.  
.
Part of what helped the US back then was 1 - plenty of hidden, tucked-away space to do this stuff and 2 - we were building entire cities at these sites in no time.  Sort of like how China can now.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 05:25:55 AM
It is astounding how quickly companies like GM stopped build cars and started build war materiel.  It's also astounding to me that Nazi war production reached its peak in December 1944.  The US invaded North Africa in 1942, attacking French held territory, and taking losses to the French.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 06:08:43 AM
"On July 16, 1790, the young American Congress declares that a swampy, humid, muddy and mosquito-infested site on the Potomac River between Maryland and Virginia will be the nation’s permanent capital. “Washington,” in the newly designated federal “District of Columbia,” was named after the leader of the American Revolution and the country’s first president: George Washington. It was Washington who saw the area’s potential economic and accessibility benefits due to the proximity of navigable rivers.

George Washington, who had been in office just over a year when the capital site was determined, asked a French architect and city planner named Pierre L Enfant to design the capital. In 1793, the first cornerstones of the president’s mansion, which was eventually renamed the “White House,” were laid. George Washington, however, never lived in the mansion as it was not inhabitable until 1800. Instead, President John Adams and his wife Abigail were the White House’s first residents. They lived there less than a year; Thomas Jefferson moved in in 1801."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 08:01:33 AM
For turning the tide of naval warfare in the Pacific Theater while incurring no casualties in World War II, the USS Washington is one of America's most famous navy Ships. Prior to American entrance into World War II, the USS Washington battleship’s initial assignment was escorting supply ships between England and Russia in support of the Lend Lease Act. One of two North Carolina-class battleships, she would gain her fame in battle after being transferred to the South Pacific in 1942. The Washington is responsible for turning the tide of naval warfare in the Pacific Theater while miraculously incurring no casualties or damage from enemy fire through the entire war. She holds the record for enemy tonnage sunk and remains, to this day, the only battleship to sink an enemy battleship in a one to one surface engagement, marking her one of America’s most famous navy ships of all time. Engaging the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) at what would become known as the Third Battle of Savo Island, the Washington was prepared to assert dominance in her new theater of operations. During the battle, the South Dakota and USN destroyers took the brunt of the damage, while the Washington maneuvered around the IJN formation, unloading on the Kirishima and landing forty-nine hits. The Kirishima was set ablaze, which also disabled her steering capability; she was scuttled the following day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on July 17, 2022, 10:23:36 AM
So the sinking of the Hood does not count?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 10:42:27 AM
So the sinking of the Hood does not count?
The Hood was classified (usually) as a battle cruiser, and the Bismark was accomanied by the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen which MIGHT have fired the damaging round that killed the Hood, probably not.  

On the other hand, the IJN Kirishima was a battle cruiser initially, then uprated to a full BB between the wars.  The USS South Dakota was with the Washington but had electrical problems and dropped out of the fight.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 17, 2022, 11:21:19 AM
It is an interesting battle and Oldendorf was a master of gunnery.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 05:49:56 AM
104 years ago today in 1918, Czar Nicholas II of Russia, his wife Alexandra, their five children, and four of their servants are shot and stabbed to death by Bolshevik revolutionaries.
Nicholas was crowned Emperor of Russia on May 26th 1896. At the time he inherited one of the largest and most powerful empires in the world. However his reign would be plagued with internal and external crises early on. Modernization of the 20th century would lead to the lower classes of Russia clamoring for political reform from the old autocratic system. Officials in his government would be the target of violent activism and assassinations. And in response his government would sometimes harshly respond to protests and provocations.
In 1904 Russia would go to war with Japan and lose an entire fleet in battle. Nicholas would decide to double-down and send their prestigious Baltic fleet across the world. But the Japanese would also destroy this fleet and inflict over 100,000 casualties on the Russians, forcing them to cede territory. The cost and failure of the war was a direct cause of the 1905 Russian Revolution which the Czar’s government violently suppressed and would almost completely alienate him from the general population.
The Czar was also affected by a more personal issue too. His son Alexi was born a hemophiliac taking up much of his time and concern. Desperate to heal their son, the royal family turned to a bizarre mystic named Grigori Rasputin who would manipulate them and alienate many of the Czar’s closest advisers and noblemen.
The final catalyst to the Czar’s downfall would be the horrendous losses and failure in World War One. The February Revolution of 1917 would have the Czar abdicate his throne, including for his sick son. By all accounts, the family was relieved to give up power and avoid politics. They planned to live a comfortable life in exile. The royal family and their loyal servants were imprisoned in the Alexander Palace before being moved to Tobolsk and then Yekaterinburg. As the Russian Civil War escalated, Allied powers intervened and the Bolshevik government lost ground. The Royal family’s conditions deteriorated and became harsher. The Soviets would periodically execute servants and guards who were kind to the family. And with Allied forces getting close to their location, direct orders from Vladmir Lenin had forced the family and their remaining four servants to pack their belongings and go into the basement to be moved to another place. 
On the dark early morning of July 17th, while the family sat together a group of Bolsheviks entered the room and read them an execution sentence. The Czar and his wife stood in front of their children and protested what was about to be done. Pistols were drawn and unloaded on the family. The Czar and his wife were killed immediately by the bullets and shielding their children. The noise from all the gunshots concerned the Bolsheviks and smoke covered the entire room making it difficult to see. The children and servants laid wounded and crying. The Soviets walked around the smokey room, stabbing and beating the survivors to death. And eventually shooting each of them in the head to ensure they were gone. The execution lasted a total of 20 minutes. The location and disposal of their bodies was a subject of great mystery for the next century.
With their deaths, one of the most important political dynasties of the last 300 years was extinguished. Fearful of the family being made martyrs, the Soviet Government denied the family was dead for decades. There were also impostors who claimed they were the missing royal family. Most of the remains were found in 1979, and the last two in 2007. After the fall of the Soviet Union, the new Russian government would formally rebury the remains of the royal family. They would also open a murder investigation in 1993 but failed to find any of the executors still alive. Nicholas, his wife, and their children are formally canonized as saints by the Russian Orthodox Church.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 10:28:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/DmDXjkw.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2022, 07:35:59 PM
On August 13, 1886, Captain Moses Harris from Fort Custer in the Montana Territories marched into Yellowstone and assumed the title of park superintendent. He was the first of a dozen military officers to lead the park until the National Park Service took over in 1918.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2022, 07:38:59 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Adolf Hitler Publishes First Volume of Mein Kampf (1925)
Hitler dictated his manifesto, whose title means "my struggle," while serving a prison term for treason. The book, filled with anti-Semitic outpourings, political ideology, and strategy for world domination, became the bible of National Socialism. By the end of WWII, about 10 million copies of the book had been sold or distributed in Germany—owing much to the fact that every newlywed couple and every soldier at the battlefront received a free copy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 07:23:20 AM
I tried to read that once, it literally is unreadable, it's like unedited random notions pouring out.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 09:05:02 AM
I also started it decades ago when I was a reader

nope
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 09:07:49 AM
Hitler told his thoughts to a fellow Nazi in prison with him I forget which one now, who wrote it for him, I presume he was scared to edit it at all.

It's like a torrent of disconnected notions, a lot of it has nothing to do with Jews and others, but much is about racial purity and Lebensraum, and the racial struggle he saw as inherent in humans.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2022, 08:53:22 AM
A commemorative tower was built in Scotland for a cat named Towser, who caught nearly 30,000 mice in her lifetime.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 09:01:55 AM
Although it is thought of as having been 'written' by Hitler, Mein Kampf is not a book in the usual sense. Hitler never actually sat down and pecked at a typewriter or wrote longhand, but instead dictated it to Rudolf Hess while pacing around his prison cell in 1923-24 and later at an inn at Berchtesgaden.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2022, 01:15:28 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Tennessee Biology Teacher Found Guilty of Teaching Evolution (1925)
In 1925, Tennessee biology teacher John Scopes was tried for violating the Butler Act, a law enacted earlier that year banning the teaching of evolution. He was found guilty and fined $100, but the verdict was later reversed. The "Monkey Trial," as it came to be known, served as a flashpoint for debate among religious scholars, scientists, and the public, but despite the outcry stemming from the case, the Butler Act was not repealed until 1967.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2022, 05:21:32 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t45.1600-4/280787204_23851332705710173_6184603288660521837_n.jpg?stp=cp0_dst-jpg_p526x296_q75_spS444&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=e84a38&_nc_ohc=0e82x7rfnLoAX-6Ngw0&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9CxcSfa0na9LGT2nvn04yNpHac-kmtdC1VyJTfwunt9g&oe=62DF86D8)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2022, 08:22:21 AM
Today in History: On July 21, 365, the city of Alexandria, Egypt, and surrounding villages and towns were devastated by a tsunami caused by what is known as the 365 Crete earthquake.
Scientists believe the earthquake in the Eastern Mediterranean was actually two tremors in succession. Today, geologists estimate the undersea earthquake to have been a magnitude of 8.0 or higher. The quake sent a wall of water across the Mediterranean Sea toward the Egyptian coast.
The Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus described the earthquake and tsunami in detail.
"Slightly after daybreak, and heralded by a thick succession of fiercely shaken thunderbolts, the solidity of the whole earth was made to shake and shudder, and the sea was driven away, its waves were rolled back, and it disappeared, so that the abyss of the depths was uncovered and many-shaped varieties of sea-creatures were seen stuck in the slime; the great wastes of those valleys and mountains, which the very creation had dismissed beneath the vast whirlpools, at that moment, as it was given to be believed, looked up at the sun's rays. Many ships, then, were stranded as if on dry land, and people wandered at will about the paltry remains of the waters to collect fish and the like in their hands; then the roaring sea as if insulted by its repulse rises back in turn, and through the teeming shoals dashed itself violently on islands and extensive tracts of the mainland, and flattened innumerable buildings in towns or wherever they were found. Thus in the raging conflict of the elements, the face of the earth was changed to reveal wondrous sights. For the mass of waters returning when least expected killed many thousands by drowning, and with the tides whipped up to a height as they rushed back, some ships, after the anger of the watery element had grown old, were seen to have sunk, and the bodies of people killed in shipwrecks lay there, faces up or down. Other huge ships, thrust out by the mad blasts, perched on the roofs of houses, as happened at Alexandria, and others were hurled nearly two miles from the shore, like the Laconian vessel near the town of Methone which I saw when I passed by, yawning apart from long decay."
Approximately 5,000 people lost their lives in Alexandria; another 45,000 died outside the city. The shoreline was permanently changed, and the buildings of Alexandria's Royal Quarter were overtaken by the sea following the tsunami.
In 1995, archaeologists discovered the ruins of the old city off the coast of present-day Alexandria.
The quake also caused widespread destruction in the Diocese of Macedonia (modern Greece), Africa Proconsularis (northern Libya), Egypt, Cyprus, Sicily, and Hispania (Spain). On Crete, nearly all towns were destroyed.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2022, 09:33:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

John Dillinger Killed by the FBI (1934)
During a nine-year stint in Indiana state prisons for a 1924 holdup, Dillinger learned the craft of bank robbery from his fellow inmates. After being paroled in 1933, he went on to commit five bank robberies in four months. Captured by police yet again, Dillinger escaped jail twice and was named "public enemy number one" by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). His run came to an end when FBI agents shot him to death outside a Chicago theater.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2022, 12:50:49 PM
Meet Elijah McCoy, The Pioneering Black Engineer Whose Inventions Inspired The Phrase ‘The Real McCoy’
By Genevieve Carlton 

In 1872, Elijah McCoy created a tiny device that automatically lubricated steam engines while they were running — and revolutionized the railroad industry in the process.


https://allthatsinteresting.com/elijah-mccoy (https://allthatsinteresting.com/elijah-mccoy)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2022, 10:07:48 AM
WW II uncovered[/iurl]  Bobby Jones: World Champion Golfer Goes Ashore on D-Day +1 at the Age of 40 Years Old

"I don't want to be a hoopty-da officer of some camp," -Bobby Jones
According to Golf Digest: "Robert Tyre Jones Jr., 40, married, the father of two, 4-F, could have served his country during World War II from the home front. More widely known as Bobby Jones, he could have played golf, participating in exhibitions to raise money on behalf of the war effort. In May of 1942, he lobbied the Commanding Officer of his Army Reserve group to allow him to rejoin the service, while insisting that a ceremonial commission was unacceptable. A month later, the Army agreed to his request and he was commissioned a Captain in the Army Air Corps. In June 1942, he was assigned to the First Fighter Command at Mitchel Field on Long Island, New York."
"By March 1943, he was promoted to Major, and later that year, he was assigned as a Military Intelligence Officer for the 84th Fighter Wing of the Ninth Air Force; he then deployed in England."
"Jones' unit was converted to infantry, and on June 7, 1944, D-Day Plus One, he went ashore at Normandy. For two days, he and his unit were under intense enemy fire. Jones would go on to serve with his unit on the front line and eventually partake in the interrogation of German POWs. He was discharged with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel."
Bobby Jones wanted to serve his country - despite his age, he did just that. Jones' legendary golf career included wins at the U.S. Open in 1923, 1926, 1929 and 1930; the Open Championship in 1926, 1927 and 1930; the U.S. Amateur in 1924, 1925, 1927, 1928 and 1930; and the British Amateur in 1930.
After retiring from competitive golf, he founded the Augusta National Golf Club in Augusta, Georgia, in 1933; in 1934, he co-founded the Masters Tournament.
Diagnosed with Syringomyelia in 1948, Bobby would be confined to a wheelchair for the rest of his life. This did not stop him from being a champion for professional golf as an ambassador for The Masters. He embodied the spirit of the game and would go on to be posthumously inducted into the World Golf Hall of Fame in 1974.
Lieutenant Colonel Robert Tyre Jones passed away on December 18, 1971 at the age of 69 years old. He lies in rest at Oakland Cemetery in Atlanta Georgia. Lest We Forget.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2022, 10:08:07 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/vEE43yf.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 25, 2022, 11:48:40 AM
The Ottoman Empire under Bayezid II posed a formidable threat to the Papal States and the rest of Christendom. During the last part of the 15th century, Pope Innocent VIII devised a clever way to neutralize the threat—he held the Sultan’s brother Cem as a hostage. Whenever Bayezid would become troublesome, Innocent would remind him that he held Cem and Bayezid would back down. Innocent also used Cem’s captivity to extract enormous payments from the Ottoman Sultan—an amount equal to all other papal revenue combined. Much of the money paid by the Ottomans was used to fund the construction of the Sistine Chapel. Innocent also required Bayezid to deliver over the Holy Lance, the spear reputed to have been thrust into Christ’s side during the crucifixion.
 
So Bayezid must have cared deeply for his brother, to accede to such extortionate demands. Right? Wrong. It wasn’t by threatening to kill Cem that Pope Innocent was able to demand and receive the ransoms, but rather by threatening to release him.
Cem and Bayezid, half-brothers, were rivals to the Ottoman throne. Following the death of their father Sultan Mehmet II, a civil war had broken out between factions favoring their competing claims. Cem was ultimately defeated and driven into exile, where he was captured and imprisoned by the Knights of St. John on the island of Rhodes, before being delivered over to Pope Innocent in 1489. There he became a valuable negotiating chip, who the Pope used to keep the Ottomans at bay and to fill his treasury. All he had to do to get Bayezid to back down from a fight, and to pony up a hefty fee, was threaten to release Cem from prison.
Innocent VIII, who was born Giovanni Battista Cybo, the son of a prominent Genoese family, had been elected pope in the hotly disputed conclave of 1484. As was often the case with medieval popes, Innocent was not a moral exemplar. He fathered at least two illegitimate sons before becoming a priest, one of whom he married into the powerful and wealthy de’ Medici family, in exchange for making 13-year-old Giovanni de’ Medici (the future Pope Leo X) a cardinal.
Innocent VIII’s eight-year pontificate ended with his death in Rome at age 59, on July 25, 1492, five hundred thirty years ago today.
In 1494 King Charles VIII of France, who had invaded Naples and the Italian peninsula at the Pope’s invitation, announced his intention to lead a crusade against the Ottomans, and he forced Pope Alexander VI to release Sultan Cem into his custody, intending to take him along.  But Cem died a month later, with Charles’ army still engaged in Naples. The crusade, which Innocent had called for years earlier, never happened.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on July 25, 2022, 12:11:57 PM
someone please wake me when CD is finished
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 26, 2022, 09:36:38 PM
on July 26,1908 the FBI was founded
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 09:36:35 AM
In 1919, the first major aviation disaster in the United States occurred in Chicago. The Wingfoot Express blimp crashed into the Illinois Trust and Savings Bank, taking the lives of 13 people and injuring 27 more.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 10:16:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CxsMGSO.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 10:25:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Korean War Veterans Memorial Dedicated (1995)
The Korean War Memorial is located on the US National Mall near the Lincoln Memorial and the Reflecting Pool in Washington, DC. Dedicated on the 42nd anniversary of the armistice ending the war, the memorial honors the American men and women who served in the conflict. The memorial is laid out in the form of a triangle intersecting a circle. Within the triangle are 19 statues of military personnel, representing a squad on patrol in the Korean landscape.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 10:32:30 AM
Its my opinion that folks should only post truly interesting things on this thread and stop boring me to death

course thats just my opinion
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 10:55:47 AM
:29:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 10:59:06 AM
:29:
thats better 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 28, 2022, 09:24:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Maximilien Robespierre Guillotined (1794)
Known as "the Incorruptible" for his emphasis on civic morality, Robespierre became one of the leading figures of the French Revolution. He was an influential member of the Committee of Public Safety, the political body that controlled France during the bloody revolutionary period known as the "Reign of Terror." However, popular discontent with the committee's brutal measures soon grew, and Robespierre was guillotined in the coup of 9 Thermidor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2022, 09:41:43 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Jimmy Hoffa Disappears from a Detroit Parking Lot (1975)
Hoffa, president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, was an influential US labor leader with alleged ties to the Mafia. He led with brawn and charisma and made toughness his policy—whether dealing with management or with rival unions. In 1964, he was convicted of jury tampering and fraud and sentenced to 13 years in jail, but President Richard Nixon commuted his sentence in 1971. Hoffa's unexplained disappearance in 1975 prompted decades of speculation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2022, 11:32:09 AM
Happy Birthday, Major General Smedley Butler!
Born July 30, 1881, Butler gained renown as a wounded teenage officer in the Boxer Rebellion and was twice awarded the Medal of Honor for exploits in Mexico and Haiti (1914-1915).  Legend has it that Butler had a Marine Corps tattoo shot off during the Boxer Rebellion?  During the rebellion, Butler took part in the relief of the siege of Tientsin and the march on Peking, suffering injuries during each battle. Outside the gates of Peking during fierce fighting, Butler was struck by a Chinese bullet that probably ricocheted off the walls of the foreign city. The bullet went off of the wall and struck his uniform button and furrowed across his chest taking off part of his large Marine Eagle, Globe, and Anchor tattoo.  Butler later remarked, "The bullet...carried off part of 'South America' from the Marine Corps emblem tattooed on my breast."
Butler served for 33 years in the Corps.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 31, 2022, 11:55:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Jimmy Hoffa Disappears from a Detroit Parking Lot (1975)
Hoffa, president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, was an influential US labor leader with alleged ties to the Mafia. He led with brawn and charisma and made toughness his policy—whether dealing with management or with rival unions. In 1964, he was convicted of jury tampering and fraud and sentenced to 13 years in jail, but President Richard Nixon commuted his sentence in 1971. Hoffa's unexplained disappearance in 1975 prompted decades of speculation.
I remember - think it was Penthouse or Hustler back in the day that had sources that he was processed in a meat plant(click bait really) It was titled "A Frank interview with Jimmy Hoffa" and showed a bunch of sausage links
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 31, 2022, 03:23:13 PM
I remember - think it was Penthouse or Hustler back in the day that had sources that he was processed in a meat plant(click bait really) It was titled "A Frank interview with Jimmy Hoffa" and showed a bunch of sausage links
Are you trying to convince us that you bought it for the articles?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on July 31, 2022, 04:26:57 PM
Are you trying to convince us that you bought it for the articles?
The alternative is that he bought a brown bag magazine for the sausage pics
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 01, 2022, 09:49:01 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY:

Jerry Garcia (1942)
Garcia was the lead guitarist and vocalist of the psychedelic rock band the Grateful Dead. His inimitable improvisational playing style helped make the Grateful Dead one of the most popular touring bands in the country. Closely involved with the San Francisco hippie movement, Garcia became heavily addicted to drugs but decided to turn his life around after emerging from a diabetic coma in 1986. He was at a drug rehabilitation center when he died suddenly in 1995.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2022, 07:53:13 AM
From the day the Panama Canal opened in 1914, America has relied upon the Canal to quickly shift military vessels from one coast to the other. But the Canal also imposed an unalterable rule in U.S. naval vessel design. Most naval ships simply had to fit through the canal. The original Panama Canal dimensions were immutable; Navy ships were built to comply with the canal’s original 320 meter length, 33.53 meter width, and 12.56 meter depth limitations, as well as meet a height constraint imposed by the Bridge of the Americas at Balboa.
From the early 1900’s, U.S. Navy ship designers toiled to cram as much combat power as possible through the Panama Canal’s locks. America’s massive, 45,000-ton Iowa-class battleships, built at the height of World War II, were so big they they had only mere inches of clearance on either side of the canal. America didn’t dare to defy the Panama Canal restrictions until until 1945, with the commissioning of the first Midway-class aircraft carriers.
Today, only America’s biggest and most valuable surface combatants (aircraft carriers and big-deck amphibious vessels) are permitted to exceed the design constraints imposed by the Panama Canal.
In mid-2016, new locks opened the canal to ships as large as 427 meters in length, 55 meters in width and 18.3 meters in depth. Today, supersized container ships, tankers and passenger ships use the new locks to move between the Pacific and the Atlantic Oceans.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 02, 2022, 09:03:19 AM
building back bigger
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2022, 08:46:22 AM
The Seven Days Campaign — A Turning Point More Important than Antietam? | HistoryNet (https://www.historynet.com/the-seven-days-campaign-a-turning-point-more-important-than-antietam/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fb_americascivilwar&fbclid=IwAR0S6Mc70kOnLGqorTQeEscFWRlCy2tDAg3qxyAniXsabsEZd4wok1CIDxM)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2022, 10:34:02 AM
Even though the Armistice Agreement of 1953 ended the fighting in the Korean War, neither North nor South Korea signed the peace treaty; therefore, they are still officially at war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2022, 11:00:57 AM
Atlanta's image challenged by facts of 1906 race massacre

https://apnews.com/article/Atlanta-race-massacre-9d738b6fa08d26ec91adfcd8fff30f7f
ATLANTA (AP) — Everyone who moves through downtown Atlanta today passes places where innocent Black men and women were pulled from trolleys, shot in their workplaces, chased through the streets and beaten to death by a mob of 10,000 white men and boys.

But few have been taught about the 1906 Atlanta Race Massacre, which shaped the city’s geography, economy, society and power structure in lasting ways. Much like the Red Summer of 1919 in the South and Northeast and the Tulsa Race Massacre of 1921 in Oklahoma would years later, the white-on-Black violence in Atlanta shattered dreams of racial harmony and forced thousands from their homes.

A grassroots coalition is working to restore Atlanta’s killings and their legacy to public memory. Historic markers and tours are planned for this September’s anniversary. A one-act play will be performed simultaneously at group dinners across the city. Organizers are seeking 500 hosts, with the ambitious goal of seating 5,000 people to discuss the lasting effects.

These activists say the massacre doesn’t fit comfortably in Atlanta’s “cradle of the civil rights movement” narrative, but they insist on truth-telling as some politicians push to ignore the nation’s history of racial violence.

Mislabeled a riot, the killings of at least 25 Black people and the destruction of Black-owned businesses had a specific purpose: thwarting their economic success and voting power before African-Americans could claim equal status, said King Williams, a journalist who gives tours describing what happened.

“The mob began its work early in the evening, pulling negroes from street cars and beating them with clubs, bricks and stones,” The Associated Press reported on Sept. 24, 1906, adding that “negroes were beaten, cut and stamped upon in an unreasoning, mad frenzy. If a negro ventured resistance or remonstrated, it meant practically sure death.”

The violence began where Georgia State University’s campus is now. Enraged by unsupported headlines about attacks on white women and the evils of “race-mixing,” the mob set fire to saloons and pounced on Black men and women headed home from work, Williams explains on the tour.

Their next target was the “Crystal Palace,” an opulent barbershop where Alonzo Herndon made his first fortune catering to white elites. Poorer white people couldn’t stomach such success by a Black man and shattered the place, Williams says.
Bodies were stacked at the statue of newspaperman Henry Grady. Williams describes Grady as a post-Civil War “demagogue who championed Atlanta, but also championed a lot of the racial rhetoric that we still see echoing today.” His statue is four blocks from CNN Center, and for most people “it’s just a thing they walk by,” Williams said.

Steps from there, some Black people either jumped or were thrown from the Forsyth Street bridge onto the railroad tracks below. Others reached shelter inside the gates of the Gammon Theological Seminary in Brownsville, a thriving African American neighborhood 3 miles (5 kilometers) to the south.

That’s where the mob, now “deputized” as law enforcers, came searching for weapons on the third day, ransacking businesses and pulling women and children from their homes. One white officer was killed and some 250 Black people were arrested, including 60 who were convicted. Not one white person was held responsible for any of the deaths, community organizer Ann Hill Bond said.

Community organizer Ann Hill Bond explains what happened in the Brownsville community during the 1906 Atlanta Race Massacre on June 10, 2022, in Atlanta, Georgia. Few have been taught about the 1906 Atlanta Race Massacre, which shaped the city’s geography, economy, society and power structure in lasting ways. Much like the Red Summer of 1919 in the South and Northeast and the Tulsa Race Massacre of 1921 in Oklahoma would years later, the white-on-Black violence in Atlanta shattered dreams of racial harmony and forced thousands from their homes. 
The cause was not in doubt. Atlanta Constitution editor Clark Howell and former Atlanta Journal publisher Hoke Smith had outdone each other vowing to disenfranchise Black voters while campaigning for governor. As Election Day approached, the papers printed baseless stories about attempted attacks on white women.

A Fulton County grand jury cited “inflammatory headlines” for fomenting the violence, but when “Voice of the Negro” publisher J. Maxwell Barber tied those articles to the racist campaigns, he was run out of town.

Once governor, Smith signed laws that kept most Black people from voting for another half-century. Thousands abandoned Atlanta, which became two-thirds white by 1910, the Census showed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2022, 11:20:48 AM
The HS nearest me was called Grady HS, now it's midtown HS.  They have an amazing football stadium.

Atlantans like not to be reminded of this.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2022, 11:25:57 AM
I understand why some history needs to be remembered

I understand why some should be forgotten
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2022, 11:30:13 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/296664122_5634259316606279_8649086920548962461_n.png?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=qp1L48vU75kAX8uAwBm&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8HvlT-iGc_gSi2kvHOhe2A8GUHKPve3sEe-amkWFGJMw&oe=62F06EFC)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2022, 11:31:11 AM
Atlanta did pretty well during the racial strife in the 60s mostly because it had pretty enlightened mayors at the time.

The city seems to be doing OK now, though crime has been up of late.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2022, 09:17:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/WnZqTE9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 05, 2022, 11:55:45 AM
The Seven Days Campaign — A Turning Point More Important than Antietam? | HistoryNet (https://www.historynet.com/the-seven-days-campaign-a-turning-point-more-important-than-antietam/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fb_americascivilwar&fbclid=IwAR0S6Mc70kOnLGqorTQeEscFWRlCy2tDAg3qxyAniXsabsEZd4wok1CIDxM)

That was a fascinating read and brings up an interesting counterfactual hypothetical that isn't implausible. 

Suppose that Johnston hadn't been wounded at Seven Pines:

America in 1880 or 1900 could be very different from the actual timeline.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2022, 11:59:22 AM
I think Davis would have relieved Johnston if he lost Richmond, the two did not like each other.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2022, 12:01:41 PM
A descendant of chiefs and warriors, Casey Thompson is believed to be the first prominent Husker football player with Native roots. It’s easier to have perspective on thumb injuries and quarterback competitions after growing up hearing tales of men who fought life-and-death battles, including two great-great-great-great grandfathers who were once held hostage by a duplicitous U.S. military commander named George Custer in the late 1860s.

https://omaha.com/sports/huskers/football/casey-thompson-is-blending-two-worlds-his-native-history-and-love-of-football/article_191982ea-14b7-11ed-8ffd-43db88ef3b20.html (https://omaha.com/sports/huskers/football/casey-thompson-is-blending-two-worlds-his-native-history-and-love-of-football/article_191982ea-14b7-11ed-8ffd-43db88ef3b20.html)

One was Lon Ahpeatone (pronounced ahp-ee-ton), the last chief of the Kiowa and a great-great-great grandfather to Casey. He was most known for dispelling to his people the “Messiah Craze” of the 1890s — the belief of an imminent apocalypse with life as they knew it ending after the Dawes Act of 1887 established breaking up reservations for individual Natives to farm.

Another great-great-great-grandfather and chief is named in a U.S. Supreme Court case — Lone Wolf v. Hitchcock — that ultimately decided in 1903 Congress could unilaterally alter a treaty with an American Indian tribe.

CASEY THOMPSON'S FAMILY
Perhaps the most famous is Satanta (pronounced say-TAN-day), a Kiowa war chief in the 1860s and 1870s and great-great-great-great-grandfather to the Nebraska quarterback. He signed multiple treaties. He once stole a bugle from a skirmish with U.S. soldiers and played it in future encounters to cause confusion.

Satanta was taken into custody multiple times including once by Custer, who went back on a truce and held him until the Kiowa people moved to a reservation in southwestern Oklahoma — the tribe had once lived as far north as Montana and the Rocky Mountains. Satanta later died in a prison in Huntsville, Texas, jumping out of a second-story window in 1878 when told he would never be released.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2022, 12:54:05 PM
Lone Wolf v. Hitchcock | Oyez (https://www.oyez.org/cases/1900-1940/187us553)

Facts of the case
Lone Wolf was a Kiowa Indian chief, living in the Indian Territory created by the Medicine Lodge Treaty of 1867. A provision in the treaty required that three-fourths of the adult males in each of the Kiowa, Apache, and Comanche tribes agree to subsequent changes to the terms of the treaty. In 1892, Congress attempted to alter the reservation lands granted to the tribes. In enacting the relevant legislation, Congress substantively changed the terms of the treaty and opened 2 million acres of reservation lands to settlement by non-Indians. Lone Wolf filed a complaint on behalf of the three tribes in the Supreme Court of the District of Columbia, alleging that Congress' change violated the 1867 treaty. That court dismissed the case. The United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit affirmed the decision. Lone Wolf and the tribes appealed to the Supreme Court.
Question
Can treaties between the United States and American Indian tribes be broken unilaterally by Congress under its plenary power? 
Conclusion
In a unanimous decision, the Court affirmed the Court of Appeals and upheld the Congressional action. The Court rejected the Indians' argument that Congress' action was a taking under the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment. Justice Edward D. White reasoned that matters involving Indian lands were the sole jurisdiction of Congress. Congress therefore had the power to "abrogate the provisions of an Indian treaty," including the two-million acre change. Justice John M. Harlan concurred in the judgment.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2022, 12:57:55 PM
Indian givers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 08, 2022, 08:20:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Quit India: Gandhi Calls on Public to "Do or Die" (1942)
In 1942, after Great Britain refused to grant immediate independence to India, Mohandas Gandhi launched the Quit India movement. Thousands of Indians responded to the call for civil disobedience, while the British attempted to suppress the rebellion by arresting over 100,000 people, levying mass fines, and subjecting demonstrators to public floggings. Though the movement ultimately failed, it showed Britain that India could not be governed for much longer.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 08, 2022, 09:18:16 AM
Fort Stevenson, ND. Between 1883-1890. Dakota Akicita facing a firing squad instead of giving up his Wapaha (Headdress of feathers) while boarding school children are forced to watch. If we’re going to get things right in this country, we must not be afraid and face the truth of real American history. We owe this to our children and the future of this great nation.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/272461654_5611700508856789_5161628544967469058_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=lglkFs45RXgAX_JVMt-&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT930K_r9IXsoqhvsqNAwa1FncZj6hsolAbQaqop6Rnhcg&oe=62F6196E)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2022, 11:58:06 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/j1rmrAB.png)

1943 state of WA.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2022, 11:58:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9MmpTyh.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2022, 12:27:05 PM
Wow,I did not know this, cool photos.

Flattening hills to build Seattle, 1905-1930 - Rare Historical Photos (https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/seattle-regrading-old-photographs/?fbclid=IwAR2kBY0EOHxnZtffv4zukFxUurSBJAqlMHqvGLrMAlbYBoc0UoAbwFWe_M4)

(https://i.imgur.com/41slZLt.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 08, 2022, 04:43:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyHYSUGAvTM
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 08, 2022, 04:57:40 PM
[img width=273.429 height=461]https://i.imgur.com/9MmpTyh.png[/img]
LoL
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 08, 2022, 05:09:14 PM
Wow,I did not know this, cool photos.

Flattening hills to build Seattle, 1905-1930 - Rare Historical Photos (https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/seattle-regrading-old-photographs/?fbclid=IwAR2kBY0EOHxnZtffv4zukFxUurSBJAqlMHqvGLrMAlbYBoc0UoAbwFWe_M4)

(https://i.imgur.com/41slZLt.jpg)
A lot went into building Seattle. There is an underground city you can tour. The essentially raised the city by one story due to flooding and sewerage backups.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2022, 06:14:47 PM
That is a bit similar to Underground Atlanta.  Railroads run through downtown today and gradually they were covered over and the store fronts moved up a level to be on the street level.  There is a massive project just starting to continue this out to where MB stadium is, an area called "The Gulch" where the RRs are still mostly exposed.

But none of that is akin to what I see in the photos of Seattle.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 08, 2022, 11:10:49 PM
unfortunately, New Orleans didn't do something similar
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2022, 07:38:54 AM
unfortunately, New Orleans didn't do something similar
They could have dumped all that dirt in NO ...?

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2022, 08:00:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Richard Nixon Resigns as US President (1974)
In June 1972, five burglars were arrested after breaking into the Democratic Party's national headquarters at the Watergate Hotel complex in Washington, DC. The motive for the break-in remains unknown. Richard Nixon and his aides denied involvement in the scandal, but their cover-up unraveled, and Nixon resigned in order to avoid facing impeachment. His successor, Gerald Ford, issued him a pardon for any crimes he may have committed as president.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2022, 08:37:49 AM
In old World War II photos and many World War II movies, the iconic American tank of the war, the M4 Sherman, can be seen carrying logs on the sides of its armor. The sight makes many wonder why a Sherman tank is hauling around the bulk of a tree while it’s already carrying so much.

The answer is that it was just good practice. A good answer is that GIs of any generation turn out to be pretty good engineers and problem solvers, no matter how much education they’ve had.


While the M4 might have been an effective battle tank that was easy to produce, ship, and fight in combat, it had some failings. One of the biggest failings (especially if you were on Sherman tank crew) was that the enemy had the answer to beating the Sherman tank’s armor.

Shermans were designed for mobility, which meant that it was fast-moving compared to other tanks, but to get that speed and maneuverability meant it had to sacrifice on of the other key components that made a tank deadly: armor or firepower.

Since the Germans were building monster tanks with advanced armor (for the time period, at least) American military thinkers decided sacrificing firepower wasn’t the way to go. That only left them with armor.

At the beginning of the war, American military thought believed the tank would support the infantry in combat and didn’t foresee the large tank-on-tank battles that would rage across North Africa and the Eastern Front. When those things did happen, tank crews realized their armor needed all the help it could get.

German shape charges and copper-cone anti-tank weapons could burn right through the skin of the M4 Sherman tank. Somewhere along the way, some genius figured out that the copper cone weapons the Nazis were using were less effective on wood than they were on metal. It didn’t provide complete protection, but some defense was always better than none.

Being a bunch of naturally resourceful GIs looking to save their own butts, they began to use whatever they could to slow down the velocity of enemy weapons. Sandbags were a natural go-to and many tanks utilized them with their jerry-rigged up-armor. Another method, less plentiful in North Africa, was the logs of fallen trees.

After a good tank or artillery battle in Europe, felled trees were plentiful. Logs also had an advantage over sandbags, a secondary benefit. They could be used to help dislodge the vehicle if it ever found itself stuck in mud, a common battlefield problem.

There was no way a couple of logs were going to really stop a German 88 millimeter tank round, but sometimes that didn’t matter. The illusion of increased armor can be enough to raise a tank crew’s morale.

There was one more benefit to fitting your Sherman tank with logs instead of sandbags, tank parts or whatever else wasn’t tied down and might stop a projectile. Tying them to the sides and front of the tank gave the vehicle some space between it and other passing tanks, creating a standoff distance between it and any other tank that might be driving by.


Trees became so effective for the latter two reasons (it didn’t really do much for any kind of anti-tank round) that Soviet Red Army tanks began leaving the factory with tree trunks tied to the sides. The logs were so effective against the Russian winter and rains that the USSR had to give every tank a chance to pull itself out of the mud.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 09, 2022, 08:50:03 AM
(1) Rush - The Trees - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=the+trees+by+rush&view=detail&mid=24FF2718668600C22ED924FF2718668600C22ED9&FORM=VIRE0&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dthe%2btrees%2bby%2brush%26form%3dANNTH1%26refig%3d69472e68bb994e20a908ef5d62741079)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 09, 2022, 09:23:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnt1pnYUlgU&t=4s


Despite getting court martialed 3Xs he still received a General Discharge in 1957.He took a radio job in Boston that lasted 3 months before getting fired for taking the company van to NYC to buy some weed
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2022, 09:31:54 AM
US Army tactics relied on fast Tank Destroyers to engage enemy tanks while the Shermans supported infantry.  That was a decent theory, but the reality of warfare of course is not nearly so clean cut.  Fortunately, for us, the Germans couldn't make nearly as many Panthers and Tigers and later in the war struggled to find fuel for them.

The Brits upped their game by fitting the 17 pounder gun to one in four Shermans, that gun could penetrate most German armor at a reasonable distance.  We later fitted the 76 mm to a version of the Sherman which was similar, it was only one mm wider than the standard 75 mm but had a longer barrel and a much larger charge.

The Israelis later fitted a 105 mm main gun to Shermans.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2022, 09:51:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ymhx7NR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2022, 07:25:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ferdinand Magellan Sets Sail to Circumnavigate Globe (1519)
In 1518, Spanish king Charles I approved navigator Ferdinand Magellan's plan to sail to the Spice Islands by a western route. On the way, Magellan crossed the "Sea of the South" and renamed it the Pacific Ocean because of the calm crossing. His ambitious voyage proved definitively the roundness of the Earth and revealed the Americas as a new world, separate from Asia. Though Magellan is often credited with being the first to circumnavigate the globe, he never actually returned to Europe.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2022, 07:47:52 AM
The Brits upped their game by fitting the 17 pounder gun to one in four Shermans, that gun could penetrate most German armor at a reasonable distance.  We later fitted the 76 mm to a version of the Sherman which was similar, it was only one mm wider than the standard 75 mm but had a longer barrel and a much larger charge.

The Israelis later fitted a 105 mm main gun to Shermans.
Never understood why the GIs didn't insist for the same.The Sherman was lighter/faster/reliable than enemy tanks just put the bigger gun on. The M1A1 artillery piece was magnificent along with the 105s/155s.Sure the Germans had the venerable 88(8.8) but across the board US doctrine was much more successful than that of the Gerries
Viewing the Italian campaign, Field Marshal Erwin Rommel commented, “The enemy’s tremendous superiority in artillery, and even more in the air, has broken the front open.”  During the Normandy campaign, Rommel added, “Also in evidence is their great superiority in artillery and outstandingly large supply of ammunition.”  By any reasonable standard, especially during the latter part of World War II, the American artillery arm was very clearly superior to that of the Germans.

And the Wehrmacht way over did it in number of tank designs,making logistics/maintenance a real nightmare.The could have stuck to the one Stug design and perhaps the Panzer IV. That would have been more efficient,cost effective and easier to produce en masse than nit picking with designs that may have been a bitch to fight but more often than not broke down or ran out of gas getting to battles
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2022, 09:51:47 AM
https://youtu.be/juDbb5LNIlY
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on August 10, 2022, 11:27:08 AM
https://youtu.be/juDbb5LNIlY
Cheese is the food I live for.  One of my favorite activities is to go to a cheesemonger and just pick up a variety of different types of cheese I haven't tried yet.

I don't care if eating a lot of cheese is "unheathy". I am never giving up cheese. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 10, 2022, 12:10:38 PM
Never understood why the GIs didn't insist for the same.The Sherman was lighter/faster/reliable than enemy tanks just put the bigger gun on. The M1A1 artillery piece was magnificent along with the 105s/155s.Sure the Germans had the venerable 88(8.8) but across the board US doctrine was much more successful than that of the Gerries
Viewing the Italian campaign, Field Marshal Erwin Rommel commented, “The enemy’s tremendous superiority in artillery, and even more in the air, has broken the front open.”  During the Normandy campaign, Rommel added, “Also in evidence is their great superiority in artillery and outstandingly large supply of ammunition.”  By any reasonable standard, especially during the latter part of World War II, the American artillery arm was very clearly superior to that of the Germans.

And the Wehrmacht way over did it in number of tank designs,making logistics/maintenance a real nightmare.The could have stuck to the one Stug design and perhaps the Panzer IV. That would have been more efficient,cost effective and easier to produce en masse than nit picking with designs that may have been a bitch to fight but more often than not broke down or ran out of gas getting to battles
Cincy already partially answered but the Sherman was a pre-WWII design. When it was designed most everybody treated and designed tanks as infantry support so they only needed armor against Infantry weapons and only needed armament against pill boxes at most.

The anti-tank weapon was a thing called a Tank Destroyer which was lightly armored but heavily armed to take out enemy tanks.

Wartime experience showed that this didn't work out in practice. Tanks were forced into the anti tank role for which they were ill-equipped while tank destroyers were both vulnerable to tank rounds and ill-equipped for the infantry support role into which they were often placed due to rapidly changing circumstances.

I used to agree with the typical criticism of the German tank designs as being overly complex thus reducing German tank numbers but their strategy actually makes sense. Tanks weren't their main limitation. Their main limitations were fuel and trained tank crews (part of the reason for their shortage of trained crews was due to a lack of fuel for training). Anyway, if you are limited primarily by a lack of fuel and secondarily by a lack of tank crews then it makes sense to utilize what limited fuel and crews you do have in the world's most advanced tanks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2022, 12:43:30 PM
Not really I didn't book mark the channel but Germany wasted time on too many designs and variants.Tigers where like 52 freakin' tons,Ran out of gas a lot,tranny and drive shaft problems because of excessive weight.Could have kept spitting out stugs,and the 4s were more than enough to square of with what the allies had. Sherman could of been upgunned yet lost none of it's reliability or little speed
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 10, 2022, 02:41:39 PM
Not really I didn't book mark the channel but Germany wasted time on too many designs and variants.Tigers where like 52 freakin' tons,Ran out of gas a lot,tranny and drive shaft problems because of excessive weight.Could have kept spitting out stugs,and the 4s were more than enough to square of with what the allies had. Sherman could of been upgunned yet lost none of it's reliability or little speed
Not even close.
This site (http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm) has a chart that shows global productive capacity in about 1937. 
[th][size=+1]Country[/size][/th]
[th][size=+1]% of Total Warmaking Potential[/size][/th]

United States
41.7%

Germany
14.4%

USSR
14.0%

UK
10.2%

France
4.2%

Japan
3.5%

Italy
2.5%

Seven Powers (total)
(90.5%)


It was actually worse for Germany and Japan because the US still had a lot of depression-era slack in 1937 while Germany and Japan were already operating on more of a war production basis.

Even just using the figures above though, the combination of the UK and the USSR could out-produce Germany by roughly 5:3 and once the US got involved that ratio was more like 5:1.

The T34's were clearly superior to the Mark IV while the Shermans and British tanks were roughly equals with the Mark IV. Look, you can't win a war with comparable equipment when your enemies can make 4-5 times as much equipment.

The only plausible path to victory when you are being out-manufactured by 4:1 is to build substantially better equipment.

I get where you are coming from because I've made a similar argument myself. Someone will extol the virtues of the German late-war tanks and denigrade Shermans and I'll point out that Shermans are a lot better than anything the Whermacht had when you provide the Shermans with something like a 5:1 numerical superiority.

That makes it seem like the Germans should have built more Mark IV's to keep closer to numerical parity but that wasn't a viable option for at least three reasons:

No, building more Mark IV's would absolutely not have been a viable strategy for the Germans.

A similar argument is made regarding aircraft. The Germans built some phenomenal planes during WWII especially their ME262 jet. I've heard people argue that they'd have been better off expending their resources building more Bf109's and FW190's instead. This argument suffers from the same flaws as you argument that they should have built more Mark IV tanks. At the end of the war the Germans had plenty of planes and tanks, what they lacked were pilots, tank crews, and fuel.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2022, 04:21:43 PM
I have no idea what direction you're going in.I'm talking tanks/Armor - Guys Like chieftain,axis forums.Glantz,Zaloga,Zwartz have stated the Reich could have trimmed down their line up.I'm not refering to numbers produced just ridiculous numbers of silly designs of not only tanks but all sorts of armor - for practical,all-pupose uses.The GD Tiger were great on the wide open eastern front they had a hell of a time in the more diverse European landscapes with ravines,rivers,valley's hills,mountains. Many bridges they couldn't cross because of weight.Also the Wehrmacht could ill afford to feed gas guzzlers later in the War.Panzer IV and Stugs could have been Made in much greater numbers and be cost effective
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 10, 2022, 06:40:17 PM
I have no idea what direction you're going in.I'm talking tanks/Armor - Guys Like chieftain,axis forums.Glantz,Zaloga,Zwartz have stated the Reich could have trimmed down their line up.I'm not refering to numbers produced just ridiculous numbers of silly designs of not only tanks but all sorts of armor - for practical,all-pupose uses.The GD Tiger were great on the wide open eastern front they had a hell of a time in the more diverse European landscapes with ravines,rivers,valley's hills,mountains. Many bridges they couldn't cross because of weight.Also the Wehrmacht could ill afford to feed gas guzzlers later in the War.Panzer IV and Stugs could have been Made in greater much numbers and cost effective
I agree they could have built a lot more tanks. My point is that without crews or fuel those tanks would have been worthless. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 12, 2022, 09:24:25 AM
Thylacoleo, an extinct species of lion, had opposable thumbs not too different from human thumbs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2022, 08:32:50 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Cortés Conquers Tenochtitlán (1521)
Tenochtitlán was the flourishing capital of the Aztec Empire with an estimated population of between 200,000 and 300,000, a unique system of lake agriculture known as chinampas, and a ceremonial precinct that contained a great pyramid sacred to the Aztec war god Huitzilopochtli. Spanish conquistador Hernán Cortés was chased from the city in 1520, but returned a year later, took the city after a three-month siege, and razed it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2022, 12:24:58 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Northeast Blackout of 2003 Begins (2003)
Caused by a cascading failure of more than 100 power plants originating in Ohio, the Northeast Blackout of 2003 was the largest power outage in North American history, affecting around 50 million people in eight US states and Ontario, Canada. The power outage began just after 4 PM and brought traffic and public transportation to a standstill, leaving many commuters stranded. Power was not fully restored until August 16.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on August 14, 2022, 09:30:35 PM
Cheese is the food I live for.  One of my favorite activities is to go to a cheesemonger and just pick up a variety of different types of cheese I haven't tried yet.

I don't care if eating a lot of cheese is "unheathy". I am never giving up cheese.
Man, I am the opposite.  My sister and I are clones, except for cheese.  She is on your wavelength, and aside from swiss or provolone and a sandwich, I hate cheese.  She met us in Nashville last week, and said she could handle the pool snacks one day.  It was like 9 kinds of cheese.  I passed on all of them
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on August 14, 2022, 09:33:13 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Northeast Blackout of 2003 Begins (2003)
Caused by a cascading failure of more than 100 power plants originating in Ohio, the Northeast Blackout of 2003 was the largest power outage in North American history, affecting around 50 million people in eight US states and Ontario, Canada. The power outage began just after 4 PM and brought traffic and public transportation to a standstill, leaving many commuters stranded. Power was not fully restored until August 16.

My girlfriend and I had planned out end of summer splurge dinner.  We lost power, and I called the restaurant to see if they did too.  No connection, so I decided to drive.  I made it a block,.and all of the lights were out, so I circled back.  Took me nearly 2 hours to make a 1.5 mile trip in Ann Arbor.  We wound up playing monopoly with my parents by generator light.  Weird that things didn't work out with her 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2022, 08:47:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Transatlantic Telegraph Sent (1858)
After the introduction of the working telegraph in 1839, the idea that countries and continents could be connected by a communications network became an exciting possibility. A working telegraph could transmit in mere minutes messages that had once taken weeks to deliver by sea. England and France were linked by submarine cable in 1850, but it took several attempts over the next eight years before a lasting connection could be maintained across the Atlantic.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2022, 07:39:24 AM
Europe in 1840:

(https://i.imgur.com/FSqAyid.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2022, 08:19:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/DHuqaKF.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on August 17, 2022, 02:06:34 PM
[img width=406.992 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/DHuqaKF.png[/img]
Still only the 2nd worst thing to happen to the Big XII
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 18, 2022, 03:25:44 PM
https://youtu.be/ya8A3Q23cQI?t=439

Hitler's private Train was code named Amerika but later was renamed Brandenburg
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 09:36:19 AM
Werner Klemperer, born on March 22, 1920 in Cologne Germany, was the son of renowned conductor Otto Klemperer and Johanna Geisler. In 1933 Otto emigrated to the United States to become the music director of the Los Angeles Philharmonic. Werner and the rest of his family joined him in 1935 as aggressions were forming toward the Jewish citizens of Germany.
According to The Together We Served Database: "Werner Klemperer began acting in high school and enrolled in acting courses at the Pasadena Playhouse before joining the United States Army to serve in World War II. While stationed in Hawaii, he joined the Army's Special Services Unit, serving as a Recreation Specialist spending the next two years touring the Pacific entertaining the troops. At the end of the war, Werner was honorably discharged with the rank of Technician Fifth Grade."
After the war he returned to the Pasadena Playhouse to pursue a career in acting. After several appearances on Broadway, Werner first appeared on screen in the Alfred Hitchcock film "The Wrong Man." His first big break would come in the form of Stanley Kramer's "Judgment at Nuremberg" in 1961. Klemperer went on to star in the title role in the film "Operation Eichmann" in the same year. Additional film credits include ''The Goddess'' (1958), ''Flight to Hong Kong'' (1956) and ''Ship of Fools'' (1965). On the Broadway stage he appeared in such plays as the revival of ''Cabaret,'' in which he was nominated for a Tony in 1988.
From 1965 to 1971 Werner Klemperer co-starred in the CBS production "Hogan's Heroes" as Colonel Wilhelm Klink. Klemperer was nominated for Emmys for each of the six years he appeared on the show, and won twice, in 1968 and 1969, in the category of best supporting actor.
"Klemperer would later explain his decision to accept the role when it was first offered to him, by saying he presented the producers with a single condition: "If they ever wrote a segment whereby Colonel Klink would come out the hero, I would leave the show," a threat he never had to carry out." (Los Angeles Times)
Werner Klemperer passed away on December 6, 2000 at the age of 80 years old. Lest We Forget.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 01:13:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/IjIjaak.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 03:47:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5vpNeDe.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 19, 2022, 05:16:25 PM
this was the case the Movie Death Hunt was based on .With Charles Bronson,Lee Marvin,Carl Weathers & Andrew Stevens. Unbelievably tough dude

https://youtu.be/XBZqxzc3PZw (https://youtu.be/XBZqxzc3PZw)

https://youtu.be/Vy6n3A7eW2k

(https://youtu.be/Vy6n3A7eW2k)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2022, 06:32:01 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US Retaliates against Al Qaeda for Embassy Bombings (1998)
On August 7, 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed, killing more than 200 people. Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda were believed to be responsible for the attacks. The US retaliated 13 days later with Operation Infinite Reach, a cruise missile strike that targeted terrorist camps in Afghanistan and a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan. Though the pharmaceutical plant was allegedly helping bin Laden build chemical weapons, the US was widely criticized for this attack.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2022, 12:48:51 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Toxic Gas Erupts from Lake Nyos (1986)
Lake Nyos is a deep lake located in the crater of an inactive volcano in Cameroon. A pocket of magma beneath the lake leaks carbon dioxide (CO2) into the water. In 1986, possibly as the result of a landslide, Lake Nyos suddenly emitted about 1.6 million tons of CO2. Denser than air, the CO2 cloud "hugged" the ground and descended down nearby valleys, suffocating approximately 1,700 people within 16 miles (25 km) of the lake.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2022, 01:04:13 PM
Are they sure it wasn't god passing judgement for their sins?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2022, 01:12:13 PM
I recall that tragedy and was somewhat amazed enough CO2 could be stabilized in a lake and could be released to kill that many people.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 21, 2022, 01:29:47 PM
Are they sure it wasn't god passing judgement for their sins?
That's silly,in that case it would have been Gainesville
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2022, 02:27:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/aePZUpi.png)

Stadium cost $17 Million to build and $66 million to implode and cart off.  This looks to be in 1965.  I was last there in 1996 to see a baseball game in the Olympics.  It was scorching hot that day.  The general area today has the old Turner Field now being used for football by Georgia State and a burgeoning development of condos and apts and whatever else.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2022, 03:54:10 PM
I'm guessing the 1.6 million tons is a guess
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2022, 10:27:48 AM
- Four and a half months after the Battle of Gettysburg, President Abraham Lincoln joined a large crowd to dedicate the Soldiers’ National Cemetery on the afternoon of November 19, 1863. After the delivering of prayers and the playing of songs, the crowd listened intently to a nearly two-hour speech by the orator, Edward Everett. Then, following a hymn, “The Consecration Chant,” President Lincoln stepped forward to deliver the Dedicatory Remarks. In just a matter of 271 words, Lincoln said everything that a broken nation needed to hear. He began by invoking the historical memory of the United States, addressed the conflict, then turned his focus to the present, and in many ways to us. For a speech that Lincoln predicted few would “long remember,” the Gettysburg Address should speak to us all today.
“Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth upon this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate—we can not consecrate—we can not hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/299905371_478751740925020_4901062582922957530_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=d5OO1OqEINIAX_uywcu&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9kpGjOjihOCMJUjdpngT-F1zTZaZpTmuDVWPwo2Krp8Q&oe=6307DC04)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2022, 11:19:52 AM
The photograph is of a horse that was once named one of the 100 all time American heroes by Life Magazine.
Staff Sergeant Reckless (c. 1948 – May 13, 1968), was a decorated war horse who held official rank in the United States military.
For her exemplary service to the Marine Corps, Reckless was awarded two Purple Hearts (for the wounds received during the Battle of Vegas), a Marine Corps Good Conduct Medal, a Presidential Unit Citation with bronze star, the National Defense Service Medal, a Korean Service Medal, the United Nations Korea Medal, a Navy Unit Commendation, and a Republic of Korea Presidential Unit Citation.
She was officially promoted to Staff Sergeant in 1959 by the Commandant of the Marine Corps.
An American Marine gun crew during the Korean War bought the Mongolian bred mare with their own money and trained her to carry shells for the recoilless rifle they called ‘Reckless’.
They also named the mare ‘Reckless’, and she became their mascot and an indispensable member of their gun crew. Reckless often, under heavy fire, made countless trips delivering ammunition from the supply point to the gun. She would often do this alone.
The photograph on this post is of Reckless beside a 75mm recoilless rifle during the Korean War.
I have also read that Reckless completed 51 solo trips in a single day during the Battle for Outpost Vegas in 1953. The battle raged for 5 days and it is estimated that there were over 1,000 American casualties and twice that number of Chinese during the battle. It is regarded as one of the bloodiest battles in Marine Corps history.
Reckless was also used to evacuate the wounded and was injured twice.
In recognition of her incredible war service, she was presented with a special citation for bravery by the Marines and promoted to Sergeant.
The Marines personally payed for her travel to the United States, where she enjoyed a well-earned retirement pastured at Camp Pendleton.
Reckless died in 1968. There are books about Sergeant Reckless.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/299428359_603138538080338_3461264018400709284_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=acdi7Yq8F_MAX_U9Ncb&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-ec8caziVw5gglUf4kFtYSB3wrY3koJFHmRVYk63XfPA&oe=63087AA7)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2022, 05:43:31 PM


On this date in 1974, "The Longest Yard" premiered in New York City.
Producer Albert S. Ruddy wrote the story in the late 1960s. He got Tracy Keenan Wynn, who had written a 1972 TV movie about life in prison, "The Glass House," to write a script. Finance was raised through Paramount, who released Ruddy's "The Godfather" (1972). 
Director Robert Aldrich says he took the third act of the film from "Body and Soul" (1947) a film on which Aldrich had worked as assistant director. He says this consisted of his character falling from grace and trying to redeem himself. He later did this on "All the Marbles" (1981).
A number of the actors had previously played professional football. Mike Henry played for the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Los Angeles Rams. Joy Kapp played quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings and in the Canadian Football League (1959-1966). Ray Nitschke was a middle linebacker for the Green Bay Packers who was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1978, four years after release, and Pervis Atkins played for the Los Angeles Rams, the Washington Redskins and the Oakland Raiders. Also appearing as prisoners are Ernie Wheelwright, who played with the New York Giants, Atlanta Falcons and the New Orleans Saints, and Ray Ogden, who played with the St. Louis Cardinals, the New Orleans Saints, the Atlanta Falcons and the Chicago Bears. Sonny Sixkiller was a collegiate star as a quarterback for the University of Washington Huskies from 1970-1972, and briefly played pro in the defunct World Football League. Star Burt Reynolds himself had played college football for Florida State University before injuries curtailed his career. 
The film was shot on location at Georgia State Prison in Reidsville, Georgia. The production had the cooperation of then-Governor Jimmy Carter. Filming had to be delayed from time to time due to prison uprisings. There is now a museum that can be visited by appointment about the film and capital punishment in Georgia located in the prison's former Death Row.
According to Reynolds, Aldrich knew comedy was "not his strong suit" so they would do a take as written then he would ask for a "schtick take" where Reynolds could "clown around.".Reynolds said the completed film used the schtick scenes about "65% of the time."
Of Reynolds, Aldrich said "on occasion he's a much better actor than he's given credit for. Not always: sometimes he acts like a caricature of himself. I thought he was very good in 'Longest Yard.'"
Reynolds appeared in the 2005 remake. (Wikipedia)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2022, 06:42:17 PM
In an attempt to make the purchase price more palatable to consumers, GM introduced the 1954 Corvette to the public as a base model that could be tailored to the needs and personal wants of consumers worldwide. One such option was the transmission: Although the two speed Powerglide transmission was listed as a $178 option, no other transmissions were available for the 1954 Corvette, making the “optional” transmission a necessity if you wanted an operational car.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2022, 06:54:53 PM
brilliant!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2022, 01:54:45 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/64GpquN.png)

During World War II, fighter planes would come back from battle with bullet holes. The Allies initially sought to strengthen the most commonly damaged parts of the planes to increase combat survivability. A mathematician, Abraham Wald, pointed out that perhaps the reason certain areas of the planes weren’t covered in bullet holes was that planes that were shot in certain critical areas did not return. This insight led to the armor being reinforced on the parts of returning planes where there were no bullet holes. This wisdom was also beneficially applied to the Skyraider during the Korean War. This shows that the reasons why we are missing certain data may be more meaningful than the available data, itself. In questions of aircraft design, don’t only listen to what the evidence says, listen also to what is not being said.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 23, 2022, 02:59:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/64GpquN.png)

During World War II, fighter planes would come back from battle with bullet holes. The Allies initially sought to strengthen the most commonly damaged parts of the planes to increase combat survivability. A mathematician, Abraham Wald, pointed out that perhaps the reason certain areas of the planes weren’t covered in bullet holes was that planes that were shot in certain critical areas did not return. This insight led to the armor being reinforced on the parts of returning planes where there were no bullet holes. This wisdom was also beneficially applied to the Skyraider during the Korean War. This shows that the reasons why we are missing certain data may be more meaningful than the available data, itself. In questions of aircraft design, don’t only listen to what the evidence says, listen also to what is not being said.
I've read that story before and always found it fascinating. The initial intuitive response was exactly wrong.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 23, 2022, 06:59:25 PM
Ya watched a youtube video on it,initially you can see why one was inclined to believe that.However upon further review the light bulb went off there were no examples of the other patterns of shot as they took the plane down and couldn't be counted
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 12:20:09 PM
Confederate Major General Martin Luther Smith.
Smith was one of the greatest engineers of the Civil War and one of the few Yankees that served in the Confederacy.
Smith was born in Danby, New York. He graduated 16th in his class at West Point. Some of his classmates were fellow Civil War generals James Longstreet, Abner Doubleday and D.H. Hill. His first assignment in the pre-war US Army saw him stationed in Florida. In 1846 he married a Southern Belle from Athens, Georgia and started a family with her.
He served as an engineer during the Mexican–American War, and was brevetted for his performance in mapping the valley of Mexico City prior to Winfield Scott's assaults.
He had attained the rank of captain before he resigned his commission on April 1, 1861 and joined the Confederate States Army. He constructed the imposing defenses of Vicksburg and was captured there when the city was surrendered to a Union army under US Grant in the summer of 1863.
Smith was paroled and was the assigned to the Army of Northern Virginia where he quickly became one of Robert E. Lee’s favorite lieutenants. Lee sough Smith’s advice and expertise throughtout the Overland Campaign of 1864. Smith was responsible for the strong rebel defenses in The Wilderness, Spotsylvania Court House.
Smith’s finest hour, however, was at the North Anna River in late May 1864. After Lee has incorrectly guessed Grant’s operation moves and put his army in a difficult spot it was Smith who suggested creating the V shaped defensive line so that the rebels could use interior lines to reinforce any threatened spots. The tip of the V met the North Anna river so that the two Union wings could not support each other directly.
In July Smith was again transferred west to the Army of the Tennessee under John Bell Hood where he helped strengthen various defensive positions.
Smith survived the war but died of natural causes in 1866 at Rome, Georgia. He was buried in Athens at just 46 years old.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 04:18:49 PM
Army Nurse Lt. Mildred Manning, who would become the last surviving member of the Angels of Bataan, gets a heroes welcome as she arrives home in Georgia after being a Japanese prisoner of war for several years in the Philippines.

The Angels were the members of the United States Army Nurse Corps and the United States Navy Nurse Corps who were stationed in the Philippines at the outset of the Pacific War and served during the Battle of the Philippines in 1941–1942. When Bataan and Corregidor fell, 11 navy nurses, 66 army nurses, and 1 nurse-anesthetist were captured and imprisoned in and around Manila. They continued to serve as a nursing unit while they were prisoners of war. After years of hardship, they were finally liberated in February 1945. Lt. Manning would pass away in 2013 at the age of 98….living a well deserved rich, full life. 

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/297988802_501130348683983_1632740569098521531_n.jpg?stp=cp1_dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=3JRt8Cce05MAX8O5Vee&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9xab2CqDxPVQbs4ugL-9u0BSYNLC76HL-VHdTQsilfyg&oe=630AA869)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2022, 09:56:06 AM
Many academic traditions, including the distinction between graduates and undergraduates began at the Islamic university Al-Azhar (“the resplendent”) University in Cairo. The university was founded in the 10th century and is renowned for its philosophical and theoretical scholarship.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2022, 01:34:33 PM
Today in 1954, the Lockheed C-130 Hercules made its first flight at Burbank, California. Designed as a tactical troop transport, it has evolved into many roles and variants. It remains in production and serves with many air forces throughout the world. It will remain a steady platform for many years to come.

(https://i.imgur.com/Q8WLNDt.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2022, 09:44:50 AM
Historically, guinea pigs have played a large role in the medicine in South America. Even in the Andes today (where Western medicine is either unavailable or distrusted), the guinea pig is believed to cure a number of illness, including arthritis and jaundice. Treatments include rubbing the guinea pig on the affected areas.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2022, 10:48:18 AM
I wouldn't like to be a guinea pig for those treatments....
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2022, 10:57:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Kellogg-Briand Pact Signed (1928)
The Kellogg-Briand Pact was an agreement between the US and France to renounce war and seek settlement of disputes by peaceful means. It took its name from US Secretary of State Frank B. Kellogg and French foreign minister Aristide Briand. Sixty other nations ultimately ratified the pact, but it made no provision for measures against aggressors and proved ineffective, especially given the practice of waging undeclared wars in the 1930s.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2022, 11:02:26 AM
"They" should make war illegal, or tax it, or something ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2022, 11:29:52 AM
Historically, guinea pigs have played a large role in the medicine in South America. Even in the Andes today (where Western medicine is either unavailable or distrusted), the guinea pig is believed to cure a number of illness, including arthritis and jaundice. Treatments include rubbing the guinea pig on the affected areas.
I thought they were a large role in cuisine down there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2022, 11:31:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/64GpquN.png)

During World War II, fighter planes would come back from battle with bullet holes. The Allies initially sought to strengthen the most commonly damaged parts of the planes to increase combat survivability. A mathematician, Abraham Wald, pointed out that perhaps the reason certain areas of the planes weren’t covered in bullet holes was that planes that were shot in certain critical areas did not return. This insight led to the armor being reinforced on the parts of returning planes where there were no bullet holes. This wisdom was also beneficially applied to the Skyraider during the Korean War. This shows that the reasons why we are missing certain data may be more meaningful than the available data, itself. In questions of aircraft design, don’t only listen to what the evidence says, listen also to what is not being said.


I feel like this is where having a smartass around helps.  That useful tidbit would be noted, perhaps in a joking way, by a smartass just making a comment.  
The decision-maker, if listening, would say....."actually, you're right!"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2022, 11:43:57 AM
There are of course other plausible reasons for locations of bullet holes in a fighter or bomber.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2022, 11:45:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/qhCWM7h.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2022, 11:50:32 AM
I feel like this is where having a smartass around helps.  That useful tidbit would be noted, perhaps in a joking way, by a smartass just making a comment. 
The decision-maker, if listening, would say....."actually, you're right!"
Getting a plug in for the home team - cool 👍 ;D
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2022, 10:06:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
"I Have a Dream," Says Martin Luther King, Jr. (1963)
The 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom was one of the largest civil-rights demonstrations ever conducted in the US. More than 200,000 people heard civil-rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr., deliver his "I Have a Dream" speech, which is considered one of the finest speeches in the history of American oratory. However, his prepared text did not mention a dream—King composed that section on the spot, likely at the urging of gospel singer Mahalia Jackson.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 11:19:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iocQXXn.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 11:22:18 AM
I read somewhere an analysis of how an army with longbows would do facing a Napoleonic era army with muskets.  It was bad for the musket side, but the longbow mastery requires much longer training than musket mastery.

Napoleon relied largely on conscripts with smoothbores marching in large blocks.  The British were often in a defensive posture in line and could fire about every 15 seconds.  They'd get close, maybe 60 yards, and aiming was not at issue, reloading quickly was.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2022, 12:35:31 PM
Problem was many times their hot debris in the barrel so prolly less than that. Forget if it was Comanches or Apaches in the 1850s I believe that  attacked a group of guys with Muskets. In close they could easily get off twice as many shots,knocking their arrows much quicker than ramming home lead balls.Think it was  Texas Rangers who arrived in numbers driving off the war party
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 12:40:09 PM
Yeah, and they were using light bows with limited range.  A longbow is different.

The notion was a British line of infantry had to close inside 100 yards and by then a longbow equipped line would have torn them up starting at 250 yards.  You could loose 6-10 arrows per minute if you didn't run out.  Each arrow would have maybe a 5% chance of a hit, going up as they closed.  Math.

The other factor would be cannon.  Napoelonic tactics are interesting to study, I think.  Often it was just bludgeoning and who could stand their ground.  Napoleon was almost never on defense.  Wellington often fought a defensive battle and then struck when he thought it favorable.  His troops were of a very high value in general.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 29, 2022, 08:02:35 AM
When a Soviet submarine captain commanded navy officer Vasili Alexandrovich Arkhipov to authorize the use of nuclear torpedos against the United States Navy, Arkhipov refused. He is widely credited with nothing less than saving the world.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2022, 08:07:14 AM
"They" should make war illegal, or tax it, or something ...
Taxing it would do,because it never stops and would drive the so called Hawks - batty,like Wuhan
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 29, 2022, 08:09:38 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Hurricane Katrina Devastates US Gulf Coast (2005)
Hurricane Katrina made landfall along the Central Gulf Coast as a Category 3 storm. Its storm surge breached the levee system that protected New Orleans from Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River, flooding the city. Lack of food and water in the aftermath fueled criticism of the US government's recovery efforts, and many former residents established new lives elsewhere. Katrina caused an estimated $81 billion in damages.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2022, 08:10:47 AM
August 26 and still a quiet hurricane season, thus far.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2022, 03:32:47 PM
Fascinating & worth the time if you like WWII Cloak and Dagger Operations

https://youtu.be/9o3mlVktTIQ
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 29, 2022, 03:44:50 PM
50 minutes?!?!?!?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2022, 04:36:10 PM
Watch it when you're not drinking or beating the ground with sticks...err I mean golfing
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2022, 09:08:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Socialist Revolutionary Shoots Lenin (1918)
Kaplan was a Russian political revolutionary and a member of the Socialist Revolutionaries, a group known for its terrorist tactics. After the Bolshevik party disbanded the long-promised Constituent Assembly, Kaplan sought revenge on leader Vladimir Lenin and shot him three times as he exited a Moscow factory. Kaplan confessed to the shooting and was executed on September 3.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2022, 11:23:37 AM
On This Day in History > August 26, 1794:
President George Washington decides to subdue Whiskey Rebellion
"President George Washington writes to Henry “Light Horse Harry” Lee, Virginia’s governor and a former general, regarding the Whiskey Rebellion, an insurrection that was the first great test of Washington’s authority as president of the United States. In the letter, Washington declared that he had no choice but to act to subdue the “insurgents,” fearing they would otherwise “shake the government to its foundation.”
The Whiskey Rebellion of August 1794 was the product of growing discontentment, which had been expressed as early as 1791, of grain farmers who resented a federal tax imposed on their distillery products. As growers threatened federal tax collectors with physical harm, Washington at first tried to prosecute the resistors in the court system. In 1794, however, 6,000 men angry at the tax gathered at a field near Pittsburgh and, with fake guillotines at the ready, challenged Washington and the federal government to disperse them.
In response, Washington issued a public proclamation on August 7, giving his former Revolutionary War aide-de-camp and current Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton the power to organize troops to put down the rebellion. In his letter to Lee on August 26, Washington noted that the general populace considered the insurrection with “universal indignation and abhorrence” and said that he otherwise would not have authorized such a heavy-handed response. Washington knew that the nation, having only recently violently overthrown the tyrannical English king, was in a delicate state and did not want to appear as an equally despotic president. He waited to see if the insurgents would back down; they did not.
According to biographer Joseph Ellis in His Excellency, George Washington, the aging president mounted his horse on September 30 to lead a force of 13,000–larger than any American army amassed in one place during the Revolution–to quell the uprising. (The act of mounting his war horse was brief and largely symbolic; Washington made most of the journey by carriage.) Lee joined Washington and the army on its march to Pennsylvania. This was the first and only time a sitting American president ever led troops into battle. Washington abandoned the procession early, however, leaving Alexander Hamilton, the true mastermind of the military response to the insurrection, in charge of the final approach to Pittsburgh.
The rioters dispersed in the presence of the federal troops and bloodshed was averted. In the aftermath, Washington reported to Congress that although he had agonized about the decision and intended to uphold the constitutional right to protest unfair tax laws, the insurrection had to be put down or the survival of the young democracy would have been in peril. Congress applauded his decision, but Washington’s former Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson, who was in temporary retirement at his Monticello estate, viewed Washington’s decision to call out troops against fellow citizens as a dire threat to republican ideals and an abuse of presidential power. The uprising highlighted a growing division in early American politics which, by the end of Washington’s second term, pitted rural, agricultural interests, led by future Presidents Jefferson and James Madison, against the pro-industrial urban interests, represented by Hamilton and John Adams, and gave rise to the two-party political system."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2022, 11:27:39 AM
and here we are
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2022, 01:46:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/QfjVhnN.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2022, 02:18:39 PM
they don't look broken
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2022, 05:36:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lGsdYvx.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2022, 09:41:09 PM
I consider Andre the Giant in a group with Bo Jackson.....over time, it will be easy for them to fade-to-black, but I hope to god people don't let that happen.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2022, 10:01:23 PM
Andre the Giant has some legendary drinking stories
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2022, 10:58:46 PM
A regular, 12 oz can...
(https://i.imgur.com/tQ4ie65.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2022, 03:11:24 PM
On August 31, 1864, during the Civil War, the Battle of Jonesboro was fought in Clayton County, Georgia, sealing the fate of Atlanta and leaving it firmly in Union hands. The final confrontation of the Atlanta Campaign, Jonesboro was the result of General William Tecumseh Sherman’s attempt to cut Confederate supply lines south of the city.
Knowing that if his lines of supply were cut, he would be forced to abandon Atlanta, Confederate General John Bell Hood quickly moved to counter Sherman’s move, engaging him near Jonesboro, Georgia. On the 31st, Confederates smashed into federal troops, who, knowing of the Confederates’ imminent arrival, had had time to prepare defensive positions. Under Patrick Cleburne and Stephen D. Lee, the Confederates were able to push back some of the Union men, but the North’s superior numbers eventually forced them to give up the fight.
That night Hood ordered his men to withdraw back to their defenses in Atlanta, and the next morning Union forces launched an all-out assault. After hours of brutal fighting, including hand-to-hand combat, the Confederate lines were broken by the Union attackers. Sherman’s men poured through the gap and Hood was forced to order an evacuation of Atlanta. By the next day, September 2, Atlanta, the city once the supply and railway hub of the Confederacy, was completely under Union control.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 31, 2022, 04:28:43 PM
On the bright side they've done a lot with the place since Uncle Billy's last visit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2022, 06:16:56 PM
Bill kind of cleared off a lot of old dead wood, as it were.  His was a remarkable, if not perfect, campaign.  We have old historical markers all around us, they pretty much are boring.  One motto of this place if "The City to Busy to Hate", which more than anything is an homage to its business leaders who above anything else wanted business.  And they are getting it in spades, for now.  They usually overbuild just before ...

We walk around this area pretty often, we like watching the construction happening.  And this is maybe a tenth of it.

(https://i.imgur.com/CnCHoRw.jpg)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2022, 07:49:06 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Rocky Marciano Dies in a Plane Crash (1969)
After failing to become a professional baseball player, Marciano took up boxing and became one of the greatest boxers of all time. Hard-punching and durable, he was the heavyweight champion from 1952 to 1956—and the only one to have retired without a defeat or draw in his professional career. He died in a plane crash in 1969, on the eve of his 46th birthday, while en route to Des Moines, Iowa, where a surprise birthday party awaited him.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 06:16:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/u6m3f84.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 07:39:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/WSIdCBb.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 07:40:41 AM
I find language, and its evolution, fascinating, how we name months, days, numbers, things ...

I learned last night that "jargon" is the same word in French and German.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 08:09:26 AM
The Boeing B-52 Stratofortress, a long-range strategic bomber, had its first flight in April 1956. Meanwhile, the new wave band The B-52's formed twenty years later in 1976. The music group will be finishing their farewell tour in November 2022. By contrast, after being upgraded between 2013 and 2015, the last B-52 bombers are expected to serve into the 2050s.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 08:11:32 AM
Not necessarily weird, but historical nonetheless.  Yesterday they moved the battleship USS Texas from its home near the San Jacinto battleground since 1948, to a drydock in Galveston, where it will undergo $35 million in repairs to its hull and other places as necessary.  Four tugboats pulled the battleship the 40 miles, and it took all day to get there.

Texas is the last surviving Dreadnought class battleship, and it is also notable for having served in both WWI and WWII.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/battleship-texas-moving/285-c79603b2-241c-4a21-b3d0-2b65c4d18d8a


(https://i.imgur.com/1HL66cG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 08:19:54 AM
The terminology is not clear cut of course, but I'd call it a "super Dreadnaught" class.  

Dreadnoughts and Super-Dreadnoughts | Naval Historical Foundation (navyhistory.org) (https://www.navyhistory.org/2022/05/dreadnoughts-and-super-dreadnoughts/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 08:35:00 AM
I visited it a couple of times as a kid, it was huge and amazing to an 8-year-old.  I watched a little bit of the livestream as they moved it yesterday, it was really crazy to see it moving again, after 70+ years of sitting stationary at San Jacinto.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 08:37:03 AM
The repairs cost something like 5x what the ship cost originally, without inflation adjustments.  I'm glad they saved it, hopefully.  I've been on the NC and Alabama.  The amount of steel is impressive.  We had to stop building the Kentucky in WW 2 because of a steel shortage.

And the carrier thing of course.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 08:48:36 AM
I don't think the $35M will be enough, but it's all the state legislature is willing to give, and after that, they're no longer funding it.  There are some wealthy benefactors lined up potentially, to cover remaining costs, but for the long term it's going to have to become self-sustaining as a tourist site.  They still don't have a final destination picked out.  There's a lot of risk remaining.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 08:50:20 AM
The number of battles in WW 2 between battleships is suprisingly small.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 09:11:19 AM
The number of battles in WW 2 between battleships is suprisingly small.
Yeah seems like they were more often used for standoff bombardment of onshore targets.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 09:36:28 AM
Way more often, and as antiaircraft platforms.  They were studded with dual purpose 5 inch batteries, and other 40 and 20 mm.

Radar proximity shells greatly enhanced their capabilities.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 10:00:53 AM
Way more often, and as antiaircraft platforms.  They were studded with dual purpose 5 inch batteries, and other 40 and 20 mm.

Radar proximity shells greatly enhanced their capabilities.

Somewhere I saw a tactical sheet for the specs and armament of the USS Texas for WW1, and WW2.  In WW1 it had a lot of smaller secondary armament, but for WW2 they'd removed a lot of that and replaced it with AA weaponry.  It was interesting to see how the times changed, and the battleship's armament had to change with them.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 10:49:08 AM
Somewhere I saw a tactical sheet for the specs and armament of the USS Texas for WW1, and WW2.  In WW1 it had a lot of smaller secondary armament, but for WW2 they'd removed a lot of that and replaced it with AA weaponry.  It was interesting to see how the times changed, and the battleship's armament had to change with them.
The American DP 5" was a great weapon. Some navies had separate guns for AA and for floating/land based targets. The 5" gun was "Dual Purpose" which effectively meant that American ships had a lot more of either AA or secondary armament than ships equipped with both an AA gun and a separate secondary armament. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 11:04:14 AM
Radar proximity shells greatly enhanced their capabilities.
This is easily the most under-appreciated technological advance of WWII. I don't have the figures off the top of my head but the Navy calculated the # of shells fired per aircraft downed and the introduction of the VT Fuse* caused this # to drop by something like 90%.

*VT Fuse was the American code name for the Radar Proximity Fuse. VT stood for "variable time" but that was intentionally misleading. They weren't timed at all other than that they armed a split second after leaving the barrel such that they wouldn't explode before clearing the firing area. After that they worked via a miniaturized radar to explode when close to a target.

The VT Fuse was also used against Infantry formations on land. The most effective way to take those out is to have your shell explode just above the ground such that shrapnel scatters and creates the maximum "kill zone". If your shell explodes too high the shrapnel is too scattered and the blast too diluted. Too low and the ground absorbs most of the shrapnel and blast thus reducing kills.

Prior to the proximity fuse both of these situations were usually handled using fuses that worked based on elevation. When shooting at an aircraft the gunners would guess the plane's elevation then also guess whether it was climbing, decending, or level, then guesstimate the elevation at which the shell would meet the plane and hope for the best.

Against targets on land the gunners guessed (or sometimes knew) the elevation then set to altimeter to explode the shell just above that.

The proximity fuse eliminated all that guesswork and was vastly more precise.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 11:14:34 AM
Back in the day, a British officer named "Shrapnel" invented a shell designed to explode in the air and rain "shrapnell" down on the enemy.  But you had to cut the fuze to the correct length for it to work properly.  This was used a lot in the UC Uncivil War.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 11:16:03 AM
The American DP 5" was a great weapon. Some navies had separate guns for AA and for floating/land based targets. The 5" gun was "Dual Purpose" which effectively meant that American ships had a lot more of either AA or secondary armament than ships equipped with both an AA gun and a separate secondary armament.
In theory separate guns had the advantage of being specifically designed for their exact role and in a situation where you needed to engage both ships and aircraft simultaneously separate guns would be superior.

In practice ships rarely had to engage ships and aircraft simultaneously and the single biggest factor against either was simply how much weight of shell you could put up. The advantage of the DP guns was that you could fire everything against anything.

Another advantage of the American 5" gun was that it was about the limit of what Sailors could manually load. The Japanese used a 6" gun but the larger shell size and weight were more than made up for by the slower cyclic rate because Sailors couldn't manhandle the shells.

By mid-war an American flotilla could put up a terrifying amount of AA. It was so effective that the Japanese decision to switch to Kamakize tactics was a fairly rational decision. As a practical matter at that point, bombing an American ship WAS a suicide mission regardless of whether or not it was presented that way. The Japanese actually got more hits per airmen lost using kamakizes than they did using pilots who were supposed to return.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 11:25:51 AM
The 5" 38 caliber DP gun was also effectively against lesser armored ships, and was used with some effect at the "Battle of the Tin Can Sailors".  At one point they got under the ability of the Japanese main guns to depress and fired at the battleship/cruiser bridge areas.

Caliber has a different meaning for naval and tank guns.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2022, 11:27:34 AM
I don't think the $35M will be enough, but it's all the state legislature is willing to give, and after that, they're no longer funding it.  There are some wealthy benefactors lined up potentially, to cover remaining costs, but for the long term it's going to have to become self-sustaining as a tourist site.  They still don't have a final destination picked out.  There's a lot of risk remaining.
where's my ROI?


fortunately the government need not worry about such trivial matters
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 11:32:47 AM
In theory, there could be some ROI from such things in terms of promoting tourism.

It will depend on where it ends up of course.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2022, 11:35:49 AM
there certainly could be.  I'd like to see it calculated and published

for all Government spending
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 11:38:38 AM
Way more often, and as antiaircraft platforms.  They were studded with dual purpose 5 inch batteries, and other 40 and 20 mm.
While I love the big BB's and I'm one of the few who appreciate the oddity that is the Alaska Class, their main disadvantage was that their cost didn't justify their construction relative to simply building more cruisers as AA platforms.  I just made this chart from WIKI:
(https://i.imgur.com/a033Txf.png)

Weight is a pretty good rough proxy for cost.  The ships are the Iowa Class Battleships, the Alaska Class Large Cruisers (arguably Battlecruisers but not according to the USN), Baltimore Class Heavy Cruisers, and Cleveland Class Light Cruisers.  The main armament is a different issue entirely but that wasn't used against aerial targets anyway*.  Simply for AA purposes, the above is what each ship carried during WWII.  

Note also that the range is longest/highest for the larger guns and shortest for the smaller guns so the most effective guns are the 5" while the 40MM and especially the 20MM are less effective particularly at defending another ship.  These, especially the 20MM are mostly close-in weapons for use against targets that got past the 5" and have probably already dropped their ordinance so the damage is already done.  

So for roughly the same cost you could build two Iowa's, three Alaska's, seven Baltimore's, or eight Cleveland's and here is the number of each weapon you'd get by doing that:
(https://i.imgur.com/kd8Sod1.png)
Strictly as AA platforms, the Iowa's and Alaska's are insanely inefficient choices.  The more numerous ships also have the advantage of being able to spread out their fire since there are more of them so they can be sent in different directions and while a hit on one of them will be more damaging it will only be damaging to THAT ship, the other seven Cleveland's or six Baltimore's will remain undamaged from a single hit.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 11:50:07 AM
The 5" 38 caliber DP gun was also effectively against lesser armored ships, and was used with some effect at the "Battle of the Tin Can Sailors".  At one point they got under the ability of the Japanese main guns to depress and fired at the battleship/cruiser bridge areas.
If you haven't already read it, Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors is a great read about Taffy 3's suicidal charge against a massive flotilla of Japanese heavy units including the 18" gunned world's largest Battleship.

The bravery of those guys to go charging TOWARD an obviously vastly superior enemy is amazing. Their sacrifice, however, was not in vain. It helped to convince the Japanese that the ships they were facing HAD to be the Cruisers and Carriers of the main American fleet. Consequently, Admiral Kurita withdrew thinking that the complicated Japanese plan had failed.

In fact their plan had worked to perfection for once. The sacrifice of the remaining Japanese carriers as bait had drawn off Halsey and his fleet leaving Kurita facing nothing but Destroyers and Escort Carriers. Strategically he could and should have brushed them aside and proceeded to inflict grevious casualties on the Americans by sinking the unarmored transports and support ships that were just beyond Taffy 3.

Interestingly, two of the American Destroyers lost in that action have recently been discovered and they are the two deepest shipwrecks ever located.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 11:50:20 AM
Interesting.  I recall the USS Arkansas was outfitted only with 5" guns as a training platform.  Something like an Alaska without the 12" ers and more 5"ers ...

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 11:51:29 AM
I have the book about 5 feet from me in my office (along with a few others).

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 11:57:01 AM
I have the book about 5 feet from me in my office (along with a few others).
Different battle, but I also highly recommend Shattered Sword. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2022, 01:01:07 PM
Our First Look At An AC-130J Ghostrider Gunship's New 105mm Gun


Photos from a recent event at Cannon Air Force Base, New Mexico, provide our first look at a U.S. Air Force AC-130J Ghostrider gunship equipped with an upgraded 105mm howitzer. This follows an announcement from the U.S. Navy earlier this year that it had delivered at least one prototype of a gun that is intended to replace the existing, aging M102 howitzers that have been used on various AC-130 gunship variants for decades now.

The new howitzer was seen installed on an Air Force AC-130J belonging to the 17th Special Operations Squadron during an "honorary commander flight event" for prominent members of the community from the nearby city of Clovis, New Mexico, held on August 24, 2022. Pictures from the ground tour and flight demonstration show these 'honorary commanders' standing next to the rear rear-left side of the aircraft’s fuselage, as well as inside, with the new gun clearly visible.

City of Clovis honorary commanders receive a tour and safety brief on a U.S. Air Force 17th Special Operations Squadron AC-130J Ghostrider gunship during an honorary commander flight event on Aug. 24, 2022, at Cannon Air Force base, New Mexico. The flight enabled community civic leaders and business owners a first-hand understanding about how 17 SOS Airmen specialize in their jobs and why regular combat proficiency training benefits Air Force special operations around the globe. (U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Peter Reft) (This photo has been manipulated for operational security)

City of Clovis 'honorary commanders' receive a tour and safety brief on a U.S. Air Force 17th Special Operations Squadron AC-130J Ghostrider gunship during an honorary commander flight event on Aug. 24, 2022, at Cannon Air Force Base, New Mexico. The new 105mm howitzer is seen sticking out of the rear left side of the fuselage. USAF

It remains unclear how much, if anything, the Navy's 105mm howitzer shares with the original M102. The Naval Surface Warfare Center Dahlgren Division previously described the weapon as being "upgraded," rather than entirely new. The replacement design has also been referred to generically as a Gun Aircraft Unit (GAU), but its full designation is unknown.

(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA11kpYn.img?w=768&h=432&m=6)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 02:01:19 PM
Good God, the engineering that went into figuring out how to absorb the recoil from that large of a cannon without weakening the airframe had to be incredible. 

On top of that, the gun appears to be mounted transversely and in a turret capable of rotation which means they have to absorb recoil in different directions relative to the airframe. That is a lot tougher than something like the cannon on the A10 because the A10's cannon is both straight on (right through the nose) and fixed. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2022, 02:04:45 PM
the motivation to kill people is strong
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 01, 2022, 02:18:50 PM
the motivation to kill people is strong
I would suggest that the motivation to support special operations troops is strong. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 03:13:01 PM
Battleship Texas now lifted up for dry docking.

(https://i.imgur.com/qkkA9no.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 03:53:33 PM
Battleship Texas now lifted up for dry docking.
[img width=273.429 height=450]https://i.imgur.com/qkkA9no.png[/img]
I've been following this saga for a while via the USS New Jersey's YouTube page. I hope they can keep the Texas available as a museum.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 04:01:34 PM
I've been on the NC and Alabama.
Have you visited any of the Iowa's?

I randomly ran into @Roaddawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=68) on the New Jersey before Ohio State's first game at Rutgers. Unbeknownst to each other we both had the same plan to see the Battleship on our way to the game. It is in New Jersey, across the river from Philly.

Iowa is in LA so maybe  Roaddawg and I can see it when Ohio State plays a B1G game at the RoseBowl or Coliseum in a few years.

Missouri is in Hawaii, overlooking the Arizona which is some pretty strong symbolism. 

Wisconsin is in Norfolk, VA.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 04:16:46 PM
I've seen the Missouri, but we didn't board it.  From afar it looks like a North Carolina or South Dakota class of course, nose on it looks thinner (but isn't).  The Iowa class were excellent ships of course, fast, reasonably well armored, and with the newer 16" 50 caliber main guns that outranged those of the two earlier classes.

I've done the Arizona twice.

The Alaska's were fine ships also, good seakeeping qualities, just no obvious mission.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 04:43:54 PM
The Alaska's were fine ships also, good seakeeping qualities, just no obvious mission.
Well they had a mission when they were designed and I think they'd have been great at it but by the time they were built there weren't any enemy cruisers left to kill so they ended up being  ludicrously expensive carrier escorts. The saying was that they had the capabilities of a Cruiser for the size and cost of a Battleship. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 04:44:21 PM
On the afternoon of August 31, 1983, Korea Airlines flight 007 departed Anchorage, Alaska, where it had stopped to refuel, bound for Seoul. There were 269 passengers and crew aboard the Boeing 747, from 16 countries. One of the 62 American citizens on the flight was Georgia Congressman Larry McDonald. Twenty-two of the passengers were children under the age of 12.
Shortly after takeoff the flight crew turned on the aircraft’s autopilot system. Either because of a mechanical malfunction or because of pilot error, the autopilot system was engaged in the incorrect mode, allowing the plane to drift north of its scheduled flight path. The navigational deviation went undetected by the flight crew and about three hours later, rather than flying 60 miles east of the Soviet Kamchatka Peninsula, the aircraft flew directly across it.
Cold War tensions were elevated at the time and when Soviet air defense radar detected an aircraft flying from the east and about to violate their airspace, they believed it to likely be a U.S. spy plane. The Soviets scrambled MIG fighters to intercept the plane, but by the time the fighters reached the scene it was back over international waters. The MIGs carried insufficient fuel to enable them to pursue the plane, a precaution Soviet authorities took to prevent pilots from being able to defect.
Seeing that the aircraft was on a course that would take it over Soviet Sakhalin Island, the general commanding the Soviet air defense in the area was determined not to permit it to escape again. Three SU-15 fighters were scrambled with orders to shoot down the intruding plane.
In the black of night visual identification of the target aircraft was difficult. But the lead SU-15 pilot Major Gennadiy Osipovich would later say that he saw the airplane’s blinking lights, and its two rows of windows lit from inside. Osipovich said he fired warning shots, but because he had no tracer shells, in the dark of the night his shots would not have been visible to the KAL flight crew (there is no evidence that they saw or heard them). Osipovich recognized his target as a Boeing civilian aircraft, but said he assumed it was being used for military purposes. His orders were to shoot the plane down. So, he fired two missiles, both of which exploded near the rear of the KAL aircraft, severely damaging it.
The explosions caused the aircraft cabin to decompress, but all passengers and crew are believed to have survived the blasts and to have been able to put on their oxygen masks, as the KAL pilots took control of the aircraft and fought to keep it in the air. Twelve minutes later, the plane crashed into the Sea of Japan. All 269 passengers and crew, who are believed to have been conscious the entire time, were killed instantly.
As soon as the horrible reality of the tragedy became evident, the Soviets began spinning a web of lies. They claimed the KAL aircraft was flying with its lights out (it wasn’t), that their fighters had fired tracer warning shots (they hadn’t), that their fighters had made radio contact with the KAL flight (no radio contact was attempted), and that their instructions had been disobeyed (no such instructions were given). Soviet divers recovered the airplane’s “black box” recorders, but for eight years the Soviets denied having them.
Meanwhile, of course, the incident enflamed already tense U.S-Soviet relations. U.S. President Ronald Reagan called the shootdown a “massacre,” and “inhuman brutality.” The Soviets responded that the KAL flight was in fact a CIA spy mission, and they refused to accept any blame or responsibility for the tragedy. Only after the fall of the Soviet Union did Russian authorities acknowledge their mistakes and the subsequent coverup.
The tragedy is now known to have been caused by a KAL navigational error and by the Soviet failure to identify the aircraft before shooting it down.
On September 1, 1983, thirty-nine years ago today, Korea Airlines Flight 007 was shot down by a Soviet fighter plane, killing all 269 passengers and crew.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2022, 05:28:46 PM

A video shared by the Ukrainian Air Force shows MiG-29 fighter jets firing HARM missiles.
The HARM missile was originally designed to destroy Soviet air defense radars.

Until recently, many considered the ability to fit the HARM missile to a MiG fighter technically impractical.
A new video that the Ukrainian Armed Forces released on Twitter earlier this week shows what many have suspected for weeks: the country has somehow managed to fit American missiles onto aging MiG fighter jets. The video depicts MiG-29 fighters firing AGM-88 missiles, also known as HARM, presumably at Russian radar targets. The setup, designed to erode Russia’s air defenses, was originally considered unlikely due to the difficulty in melding American and Ukrainian weapon systems.


“Ivan,” a Ukrainian Air Force pilot, made the video. A caption states that it was dedicated to the memory of Major Yevhen Lysenko, a fellow pilot who died in battle. There was no outward indication that the video was of anything particularly new, until sharp-eyed social media viewers realized that the missiles in the video launching off Ivan’s MiG-29 rails were actually American-made AGM-88 HARMs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2022, 06:42:27 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Great Fire of London Begins (1666)
This massive fire was one of the biggest calamities in London's history. It destroyed 13,200 houses, 87 parish churches, St. Paul's Cathedral, and countless other buildings over four days, leaving an estimated 70,000 residents homeless in its wake. Though the death toll is traditionally thought to have been relatively low, recent research suggests it may have been higher, since the deaths of poor and middle-class people were not recorded at the time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2022, 08:20:30 AM
Hooking up a HARM to a MiG-29 is a something requiring  a lot of connectivity.  From what I've read, the HARM has to pick up Russian radar (any radar) signals and confirm sending a signal to the cockpit it's in range and active and then must be released of course.  Modern radars are frequency agile, usually, they send out one freq and then send another, and they can of course detect enemy aircraft and the incoming missile (usually) and shut down or change freq, usually they shut down.  The HARM then remembers the location and comes in anyway, all it needs to do it damage the radar dish or matt or whatever.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2022, 09:15:49 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

World's Oldest Republic Is Born (301)
San Marino, surrounded by Italy, is the world's smallest republic and likely Europe's oldest existing state. According to tradition, its founder, Marino—a Christian stonecutter from Dalmatia—took refuge on Mount Titano in the Apennines to escape religious persecution. By the mid-5th century, a community had formed. Its relatively inaccessible location has helped it to maintain its independence with only a few brief interruptions.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2022, 09:45:13 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Ferdinand Porsche (1875)
Despite having little formal education in engineering. Porsche showed enormous natural aptitude. After working in the automotive industry for some time, the Austrian formed his own firm and began designing vehicles on commission—one of which resulted in the original Volkswagen Beetle. His success in making Hitler's vision for a "people's car" a reality led to further commissions, and Porsche went on to design various military vehicles for the Germans.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2022, 11:50:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/1lWMrN8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 04, 2022, 09:10:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Little Rock School Crisis (1957)
On this day in 1957, Arkansas Governor Orville Faubus ordered the National Guard to prevent nine African-American students from entering Central High School in Little Rock. His actions defied the US Supreme Court's ruling in Brown v. Board of Education, which called for the racial desegregation of public schools. US President Dwight D. Eisenhower responded by sending federal troops to enforce integration and protect the students.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 05, 2022, 08:01:53 AM
U.S. Navy Battleship USS North Carolina Is Set To Make A Big Comeback (autodailyz.com) (https://military.autodailyz.com/u-s-navy-battleship-uss-north-carolina-is-set-to-make-a-big-comeback/?fbclid=IwAR02q6keuFk0K5NfRRpbTXEMZHBUMAATa5N1NZif__Np-zj7nkclhbMy56o)

Another one needing refurbishment ...

(https://i.imgur.com/N875e16.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 05, 2022, 08:02:57 AM
This was a two ship class followed by the South Dakota class which was marginally different, they look the same really.

The USS Washington did sink the IJN Kirishima in a night battle near Guadalcanal in 1942.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 05, 2022, 09:22:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Manson Family Member Attempts Assassination of US President (1975)
In 1967, depressed teen runaway Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme met cult leader Charles Manson, and she soon became a devoted member of his "Family." In the early 1970s, she was arrested in conjunction with several murders committed by the "Family" but avoided charges. Several years later she was arrested again, this time for aiming a gun at US President Gerald Ford at an appearance in California in what was believed to be an assassination attempt.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 10:39:18 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Munich Massacre (1972)
During the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich, Germany, Palestinian terrorists from the group Black September infiltrated the Olympic Village and took a number of members of the Israeli Olympic team hostage. Two of the athletes were killed during the initial assault, and nine others lost their lives in the course of a failed rescue attempt, during which a German police officer and five of the eight kidnappers were killed as well.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 11:48:44 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Marquis de Lafayette (1757)
Lafayette was a French aristocrat most famous for his participation in the American and French revolutions. He fought with distinction in the American Revolution, becoming a close friend of George Washington. Upon returning to France, "the Hero of Two Worlds" turned his attentions to his home country, helping draft the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen and pushing for a constitutional monarchy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 09:22:20 PM
On this day in 1871, Nebraska opened its doors to all, including those of limited resources. 130 students enrolled for the 1871-72 academic year—20 pursuing university coursework, the rest in the preparatory school—and all classes were held in University Hall which was demolished in 1948.

📷: UNL Archives & Special Collections\\

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/305962216_450946383729972_9014219092162877557_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=LQoeyco8n_AAX_m_QrS&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_fc-HsuYpTfp9MfjKa-ZLFpcj39Kdo1cURDmMwTKJKuw&oe=631CB239)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 07, 2022, 04:51:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/tSQg6pv.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 07, 2022, 06:35:56 AM
U.S. Navy Battleship USS North Carolina Is Set To Make A Big Comeback (autodailyz.com) (https://military.autodailyz.com/u-s-navy-battleship-uss-north-carolina-is-set-to-make-a-big-comeback/?fbclid=IwAR02q6keuFk0K5NfRRpbTXEMZHBUMAATa5N1NZif__Np-zj7nkclhbMy56o)

Another one needing refurbishment ...

(https://i.imgur.com/N875e16.jpg)
I was on that as a kid when we took and east coast vacation - it was moored in S.Carolina
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 07, 2022, 09:45:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

"Umbrella Assassin" Strikes (1978)
Georgi Markov began his career as a writer in his native Bulgaria. After defecting to the West in 1969, he continued his criticisms of the Bulgarian regime. On September 7, 1978, Markov was waiting at a London bus stop when he felt a sting on his leg and turned to see a man pick up an umbrella. Markov's death days later was attributed to the tiny, ricin-laced pellet that had been fired into his leg—likely from the umbrella. The "Umbrella Assassin" was never caught.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2022, 08:54:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First V-2 Rocket Hits London (1944)
Developed by Germany during World War II, the Vergeltungswaffe 2 (V-2) rocket was the world's first modern ballistic missile and the first known manmade object to enter outer space. Thousands were launched on Allied targets during the last year of the war, causing more than 9,000 deaths. One of the rocket's first targets was London, which was hit just days after Hitler declared his plans to start V-2 attacks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 08, 2022, 11:45:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

First V-2 Rocket Hits London (1944)
Developed by Germany during World War II, the Vergeltungswaffe 2 (V-2) rocket was the world's first modern ballistic missile and the first known manmade object to enter outer space. Thousands were launched on Allied targets during the last year of the war, causing more than 9,000 deaths. One of the rocket's first targets was London, which was hit just days after Hitler declared his plans to start V-2 attacks.
It might have been V1's but one of the two was used against the Erich Ludendorff Bridge at Remagen after it's capture by the 1st US Army. The bridge was important enough to warrant that because it was the first Rhine crossing captured and allowed the US to establish a bridgehead east of the Rhine before the bridge collapsed. By the time the bridge collapsed the US Army had constructed pontoon bridges and already had a defensible position east of the river.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2022, 09:45:50 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY:

Paul Bryant (1913)
Paul "Bear" Bryant was an American college football coach. Best known as the longtime head coach of the University of Alabama football team, he achieved an unparalleled legendary status in the sport, winning the national championship six times. Bryant retired with a whopping 323 career wins, then a college coaching record. Just weeks after his retirement, he suffered a fatal heart attack.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 12, 2022, 10:55:52 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Two Plus Four Agreement Signed in Moscow (1990)
The Two Plus Four Agreement, also known as the Treaty on the Final Settlement With Respect to Germany, was the final peace treaty negotiated between West Germany and East Germany—the "Two"—and the four powers that occupied Germany at the end of World War II: France, the UK, the US, and the Soviet Union. The treaty paved the way for the German reunification, which took place less than a month later, on October 3.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 13, 2022, 08:24:08 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Nintendo Releases Super Mario Bros. (1985)
Super Mario Bros., one of the first side-scrolling platform games, helped to usher in the modern video game era. With expansive worlds and precise controls that marked a dramatic departure from its predecessors, the game sold more than 40 million units, making it the second-best-selling video game of all time. It also helped revitalize the video game industry and made Nintendo one of the world's most recognized video game manufacturers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 14, 2022, 07:45:43 PM
World War II changed everything we know about warfare, from the weapons we use to the way we fight. Despite immense technological advancements, the final naval engagement of the war wasn't fought between steel battleships or large aircraft carriers. It was fought between two junks off the coast of China.

Junks were a common sight in that area, especially in the days before the Japanese invasion of China. With wooden hulls and rigid sails, they are perfectly suited for the waters off the Chinese coastline. They are not suited for combat against World War II artillery.


Navy Lt. Cmdr. Livingston Swentzel and Marine Corps 1st Lt. Steuart Pittman were in command of the two junks, traveling from Hainan to Shanghai in August 1945. Seven Americans and 20 Chinese guerrillas were manning the tiny flotilla. Not all of them would make it to Shanghai.

Just days before, this journey would have been perilous. Though Japan was losing in the Pacific Theater, Japanese ships were still aggressively prowling the waters of the East China Sea. But since Emperor Hirohito had announced the surrender of the Japanese Navy and Army on Aug. 15, the sea voyage should have been uneventful.


Swentzel and Pittman spotted another junk in the distance on the morning of Aug. 21. When the mystery junk saw the American ships, it came about and fired a round from a 75-millimeter howitzer. The shot hit Pittman's junk, killing its .30-caliber machine gun crew and the helmsman. The rest of the crew scrambled, not knowing what to do next.

While these junks may have been old technology, they were ready for a more modern kind of combat. The two officers coordinated their counterattack via handheld radios as Swentzel and Pittman took over their respective helms. They got their crews under control and went to work on knocking out their attacker, even as more 75-millimeter shells rained down on them.

Swentzel ran up the colors as their junks moved closer to the enemy ship and the two sides exchanged heavy machine-gun fire. When the Allied ships were within 100 yards, each brought out a bazooka, the heaviest weapons they had. With only a few bazooka rounds between them, they hit the Japanese with everything they could.

The third bazooka round finally knocked out the Japanese howitzer. Low on ammunition but still maneuverable, Swentzel then pressed their advantage, bringing his vessel alongside the Japanese boat and shouting an order to his men to prepare to board.

To prepare for the boarding party, American and Chinese troops began tossing grenades at the enemy vessel, killing many of the 83 Japanese defenders on board. Pittman's crew locked onto the enemy ship and boarded it with rifles and knives drawn. The fight was over almost as quickly as it had begun.

By the time Swentzel's crew also boarded the Japanese junk, the entire engagement had lasted 45 minutes. They met little resistance, considering the bulk of the defending crew had been killed in the bazooka and grenade attacks. Still, they had to drop grenades down the hatches and below decks.

When the smoke cleared and the enemy crew finally surrendered, 44 Japanese soldiers were dead with another 35 wounded and captured. The third junk was secured as they all made their way toward Shanghai.

Swentzel would later receive the Navy Cross and Pittman a Silver Star for the last naval battle of World War II, the last battle between sailing ships and the last naval engagement in which an American prize crew boarded an enemy vessel in combat.

-- Blake Stilwell can be reached at blake.stilwell@military.com. He can also be found on Twitter @blakestilwell or on Facebook.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2022, 09:44:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

CBS Goes on the Air (1927)
CBS was one of the three major broadcasting networks to dominate radio and television in the US before the advent of cable TV in the 1980s. CBS began radio broadcasting in 1927. A year later, businessman William S. Paley purchased the network as a vehicle through which to advertise his family's cigars. With Paley at the helm for 50 years, CBS grew into one of the most powerful radio and television broadcasting networks in the nation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 20, 2022, 11:33:12 PM
FACT OF THE DAY:

Germany was the first country in Europe to adopt Daylight Saving Time (DST), also known as “Summer time,” in 1916 during World War I.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2022, 07:49:46 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Devils Tower Named First US National Monument (1906)
Rising 1,267 feet (386 m) above the meandering Belle Fourche River, Devils Tower is a cluster of rock columns in the Black Hills of Wyoming formed by the cooling and crystallization of molten matter. The site, which many Native American Plains tribes consider sacred, was declared the first US National Monument by President Theodore Roosevelt in 1906. A popular rock-climbing site, the monument attracts some 400,000 visitors each year.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2022, 08:18:59 PM
Today in sports history: Sept. 25


1962 — Sonny Liston knocks out Floyd Patterson at 2:06 of the first round at Comiskey Park in Chicago to win the world heavyweight title.

Heavyweight boxer Floyd Patterson is down and out on the canvas after being in the ring for one round with Sonny Liston, right, Sept. 25, 1962, in Chicago. Referee Frank Sikora signals to Liston to go to the neutral corner. (AP Photo)

(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/siouxcityjournal.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/14/414f7d2e-209f-53e0-8f18-05b281e2f72c/5f6dc1cdbb1e7.image.jpg?resize=990%2C894)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 26, 2022, 06:17:37 AM
I was on that as a kid when we took and east coast vacation - it was moored in S.Carolina
It's in Wilmington, NC, near SC.  There are some ships moored in Charleston that are also of interest, but no BBs.

It's worth touring I think if you are in the area.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 26, 2022, 07:50:03 AM
The Gigantic Floating Dry Docks That Could Repair Battleships And Carriers Thousands Of Miles From Home (warhistoryonline.com) (https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/gigantic-floating-dry-docks.html?fbclid=IwAR2tYxAebqEl8UK1BEjprre9KaGC90WuZHLmFb8au_C46iIPYFkrY_X963g&edg-c=1)

(https://i.imgur.com/h0xs9XC.png)

Some of the "noncombat" stuff in WW 2 is really hard to believe for me.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 26, 2022, 11:14:28 AM
It's in Wilmington, NC, near SC.  There are some ships moored in Charleston that are also of interest, but no BBs.

It's worth touring I think if you are in the area.
I was going to point out that the North Carolina is in North Carolina much like the Texas, New Jersey, Alabama, and Massachusetts are in their respective namesake states. The exceptions (Iowa, Missouri, Wisconsin) tend to be named for inaccessible inland states.

The Yorktown and Laffey are great to visit in Charleston but I'd advise skipping the submarine. There are a ton of Gato and Balo class submarines operating as museums and they are nearly identical with the most significant difference being that the Gato Class boats had slightly thicker hulls to allow for deeper dives. The best one to visit, from what I've read is the USS Cod in Cleveland near where I live.

Ironically, the reason the USS Cod is best is because they spent the least preparing it for visitors. Most of the others have large doors cut in them to make them more accessible to tourists but the group that bought the USS Cod basically just towed it to Cleveland, tied it to a pier, and put up a welcome sign. Consequently, it is MUCH more original than the others.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 26, 2022, 11:22:38 AM
USS Albacore (https://www.ussalbacore.org/)

This is an interesting visit, I thought, in MA.

Albacore served as a sea-going test platform from 1953 to 1972. Albacore's teardrop-shaped hull was the prototype for the Navy's nuclear powered submarine force and was the first boat built specifically to operate underwater. Prior to Albacore, submarines had been characterized as surface vessels that could submerge. With her revolutionary hull design and state-of-the-art systems, Albacore provided the Navy with an engineering platform to evaluate systems and design features before including them in future classes of submarines.  Her motto was Praenuntius Futuri (Forerunner of the Future) and her mission was experimental.

Commissioned in December of 1953, Albacore was only 2/3rds the length of a World War II Fleet Boat and, when outfitted with her special high capacity silver-zinc battery, could outrun a contemporary nuclear submarine. In 1966, she set the record as the world's fastest submarine having attained an underwater speed of nearly 40 miles per hour.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 26, 2022, 12:55:43 PM
And the Russian subs could launch warheads the size of the Albacore
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 27, 2022, 09:19:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

The Taliban Captures Kabul (1996)
During the chaotic period that followed the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, a militia of Islamic fundamentalist students known as the Taliban became increasingly powerful. In 1996, the Taliban captured the capital city of Kabul and declared itself the legitimate government of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, establishing a strict Islamic regime that became a haven for extremists.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on September 27, 2022, 03:09:33 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

The Taliban Captures Kabul (1996)
During the chaotic period that followed the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, a militia of Islamic fundamentalist students known as the Taliban became increasingly powerful. In 1996, the Taliban captured the capital city of Kabul and declared itself the legitimate government of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, establishing a strict Islamic regime that became a haven for extremists.

The more things change...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2022, 08:59:22 AM
During the Whiskey Rebellion of 1794, the city of Pittsburgh avoided a potentially violent attack by serving several barrels of free whiskey to 7,000 men who assembled at Braddock’s Field. They drank so much they had no further desire to proceed. Provided by History.com
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2022, 11:06:05 AM
Feed them to the lions! How Ancient Rome demonstrated its brutality and power

The Roman rulers used gladiator games to entertain the public – but these battles also served as political theater

https://english.elpais.com/culture/2022-09-18/feed-them-to-the-lions-how-ancient-rome-demonstrated-its-brutality-and-power.html (https://english.elpais.com/culture/2022-09-18/feed-them-to-the-lions-how-ancient-rome-demonstrated-its-brutality-and-power.html)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2022, 07:35:24 PM
Murphy's Law

Murphy's Law is the humorous axiom stating that anything that can possibly go wrong will go wrong. Its namesake is likely Edward A. Murphy, an engineer on US Air Force rocket-sled experiments. During one trial, someone methodically wired each sensor involved in an experiment backwards, prompting Murphy to remark, "If there are two or more ways to do something, and one of those ways can result in a catastrophe, then someone will do it."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 29, 2022, 07:41:52 PM
I was watching one of those "what if" war scenario videos on youtube, and it was said that one of our nuke-equipped subs would be the 6th-highest threat in terms of actual warheads that are operational.  
And the fact that it could concieveably launch them all in 7 min...
And the fact that it's basically invisible....
.
Cue the Owen Wilson WOWWWW!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 29, 2022, 08:02:48 PM
I was watching one of those "what if" war scenario videos on youtube, and it was said that one of our nuke-equipped subs would be the 6th-highest threat in terms of actual warheads that are operational. 
And the fact that it could concieveably launch them all in 7 min...
And the fact that it's basically invisible....
.
Cue the Owen Wilson WOWWWW!!
They don't call the Boomers Nation Killers for no reason. .

Each Ohio Class Submarine carries up to 24 missles and each missile contains up to eight warheads that are each more powerful than all the bombs dropped in all the wars fought.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2022, 08:55:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Honeymooners Premiers on CBS (1955)
The Honeymooners was a short-lived American sitcom based on sketches by comedian Jackie Gleason. It starred Gleason and Audrey Meadows as a struggling working class couple in New York—a drastic departure from other popular comedies of the era that depicted their characters in comfortable, middle-class, suburban environments. Though The Honeymooners was cancelled after just 39 episodes, it has been aired for decades in syndication.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2022, 01:17:57 PM
On this day in 1879, Lt. Isaac Webster started a 12-member band, the first at the university. It would later grow in talent and ability into what is today known as The Cornhusker Marching Band, “The Pride of All Nebraska."

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/310380218_469141005243843_7640546340571446692_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=CyVid3yT2oIAX_pCVNK&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8tzOyuYmYa92T0BZrWYqvJmLkSX_tytRc7wo0i9CgiLQ&oe=633D35EA)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2022, 04:20:19 PM
On this day in 1872, the poster Cincydawg was born.  Here he is on UGA's first football team:
(https://i.imgur.com/4tXgK11.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 01, 2022, 04:22:28 PM
Ha,did you photo shop or just a sharp eye?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2022, 05:28:42 PM
I was the head coach 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2022, 04:21:21 AM
Today In History : 3 October (1942)
The first A4 rocket, later dubbed the V-2, flies from Peenemünde, covering 190 km (120 mi) in 296 seconds at five times the speed of sound, reaching an altitude of 84.5 km (52.5 mi).
The V-2 (German: Vergeltungswaffe 2, lit. 'Retaliation Weapon 2'), with the technical name Aggregat 4 (A4), was the world’s first long-range guided ballistic missile. The missile, powered by a liquid-propellant rocket engine, was developed during the Second World War in Nazi Germany as a "vengeance weapon" and assigned to attack Allied cities as retaliation for the Allied bombings against German cities. The V-2 rocket also became the first artificial object to travel into space by crossing the Kármán line (edge of space) with the vertical launch of MW 18014 on 20 June 1944.
Research into military use of long-range rockets began when the graduate studies of Wernher von Braun attracted the attention of the Wehrmacht. A series of prototypes culminated in the A-4, which went to war as the V-2. Beginning in September 1944, over 3,000 V-2s were launched by the Nazi Wehrmacht against Allied targets, first London and later Antwerp and Liège. According to a 2011 BBC documentary, the attacks from V-2s resulted in the deaths of an estimated 9,000 civilians and military personnel, and a further 12,000 forced laborers and Nazi concentration camps prisoners died as a result of their forced participation in the production of the weapons.
The rockets travelled at supersonic speed, impacted without audible warning, and proved unstoppable, as no effective defense existed. Teams from the Allied forces—the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Soviet Union—raced to seize key Nazi manufacturing facilities, procure the Nazis' missile technology, and capture the V-2’s launching sites. Von Braun and over 100 key V-2 personnel surrendered to the Americans, and many of the original V-2 team ended up working at the Redstone Arsenal. The US also captured enough V-2 hardware to build approximately 80 of the missiles. The Soviets gained possession of the V-2 manufacturing facilities after the war, re-established V-2 production, and moved it to the Soviet Union.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2022, 06:48:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/eaKifak.png)

German Navy 15” / 38cm SK L/45 “Lange Max" (Long Max) Railroad Gun firing on the Western Front - 1918

Newer US battleships in WW 2 carried nine guns slightly larger than this one (16" 45 or 50 calibers).

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 03, 2022, 10:14:54 AM
BOOM!!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 03, 2022, 10:35:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of Mogadishu Begins (1993)
In 1992, US armed forces, together with the United Nations, undertook a joint relief operation in Somalia, a country wracked by civil war and famine. Increasing violence in the area led to "Operation Gothic Serpent," a US mission to capture Somali warlord Mohamed Farrah Aidid's top advisors, but two US helicopters were shot down, and an urban battle ensued. Eighteen US servicemen and thousands of Somalis died in the fighting.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2022, 10:46:53 AM
Teams from the Allied forces—the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Soviet Union—raced to seize key Nazi manufacturing facilities, procure the Nazis' missile technology, and capture the V-2’s launching sites. Von Braun and over 100 key V-2 personnel surrendered to the Americans, and many of the original V-2 team ended up working at the Redstone Arsenal. The US also captured enough V-2 hardware to build approximately 80 of the missiles. The Soviets gained possession of the V-2 manufacturing facilities after the war, re-established V-2 production, and moved it to the Soviet Union.
My dad always said that in the early days of the space race when the Soviets and Americans were first putting rocket's into space the joke was that the Soviet and American rocket's were up there talking to each other in German. It isn't far off from the truth.

It is interesting, if you look at a pre-WWI map of Germany it was vastly larger than modern Germany. In the East it included Konigsberg (now Kalinningrad in Russia), Bresalu (now Worclaw in Poland), Danzig (now Gdansk in Poland), and in the West it included the now French states of Alsace and Lorraine.

One wonders where Germany would be today if they hadn't started and lost the two largest conflicts in human history.

Acording to this site (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Maddison_statistics_of_the_ten_largest_economies_by_GDP_(PPP)), the German Empire had the world's third largest economy in 1910. Problem was that they picked a fight with #1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, and others.
Largest economies in 1910:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2022, 11:16:28 AM
I have pondered what would have happened had the Germans won WW One, either in 1914 or 1918.  My guess is the settlement would be something like what happened in 1871.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2022, 11:52:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/gsGNMI5.png)

That's a fact, Jack...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2022, 12:11:37 PM
I have pondered what would have happened had the Germans won WW One, either in 1914 or 1918.  My guess is the settlement would be something like what happened in 1871.
It is an interesting question. I don't think they had much of a chance in 1918 because American troops were arriving in France at a rate of 10,000 per day. I'm not saying that as a product of being Americentric, or to say that US Troops were better than their French, British, or German counterparts, it is simply a matter of numbers. The warring nations had been locked in a stalemate for four years and the introduction of (eventually) 2M extra troops for one side was inherently going to tip the balance.

In 1914, however, I think that the Central Powers could absolutely have overrun France. The Germans did that a quarter-century later and lost anyway but things were different in 1914.

If the Germans hadn't pulled troops out of their advance into France to defeat Russians in East Prussia (which turned out to be paper Tigers anyway) then I think they'd have won on the Marne, the Brits would have looked to get their army off the continent, and France would have fallen.

If Russia eventually collapses anyway (likely), and Italy decides to sit the war out (likely in that scenario) then the Brits would have been alone and the US wouldn't have had a clear reason to get involved.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2022, 12:13:19 PM
I figure in 1918 they could win if the US didn't get into it.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2022, 02:04:48 PM
I figure in 1918 they could win if the US didn't get into it.
Well there is that hypothetical possibility.

German diplomacy post Bismark was one catastrophic failure after another right up through WWII.

They managed to fight two enormous wars in a little over 20 years without a worthwhile ally in either one.

In WWII the underlying problem was ideological rather than diplomatic, of course. National Socialism was always going to be a hard sell abroad. However, their diplomatic failures before and during WWI were probably decisive:
Marginally competent diplomacy would likely have kept at least the US out of the war and reasonably decent diplomacy would have kept the Brits out as well.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 03, 2022, 02:48:09 PM
One wonders where Germany would be today if they hadn't started and lost the two largest conflicts in human history.
Germany hardly started the 1st World War which was a continuation of old hostilities and allegiances.And WWII was an extension of that.Look harder you'll find an English Crown in fact had it's dirty fingers involved.The same fingers that twice tried to pry us from our "unalienable rights"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2022, 03:55:59 PM
Germany hardly started the 1st World War which was a continuation of old hostilities and allegiances.And WWII was an extension of that.Look harder you'll find an English Crown in fact had it's dirty fingers involved.The same fingers that twice tried to pry us from our "unalienable rights"
Well . . .

I admit that my phrasing was a little harsh wrt WWI and I think the Germans were unfairly deemed wholly responsible for it at Versailles. However, it wasn't the British that gave the Hapsburgs a blank check even AFTER Serbia agreed to nearly all of Austria's demands and it wasn’t the Brits that decided to violate Belgian neutrality either.

Even before the September crisis though, Germany's diplomatic failures had put them in a very difficult situation. Austria-Hungary was a nearly worthless ally (they couldn't even handle either the Russisns or the Italians without significant German help) and Italy was less than worthless (they not only ducked their obligations on the basis of it being an offensive war, they later joined the other side). The Ottomans chewed up a bunch of Allied troops (mostly ANZACS) in Churchill's failed campaign but they didn't actually contribute much.

Once the Serbs mostly caved the smart play would have been for the Kaiser to push back from the table and wait. At the time France was getting progressively weaker, Russia was perennially near collapse, and the German Navy was growing relative to the RN.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 03, 2022, 05:02:08 PM
Well . . .

I admit that my phrasing was a little harsh wrt WWI and I think the Germans were unfairly deemed wholly responsible for it at Versailles. However, it wasn't the British that gave the Hapsburgs a blank check even AFTER Serbia agreed to nearly all of Austria's demands and it wasn’t the Brits that decided to violate Belgian neutrality either.

Even before the September crisis though, Germany's diplomatic failures had put them in a very difficult situation. Austria-Hungary was a nearly worthless ally (they couldn't even handle either the Russisns or the Italians without significant German help) and Italy was less than worthless (they not only ducked their obligations on the basis of it being an offensive war, they later joined the other side). The Ottomans chewed up a bunch of Allied troops (mostly ANZACS) in Churchill's failed campaign but they didn't actually contribute much.

Once the Serbs mostly caved the smart play would have been for the Kaiser to push back from the table and wait. At the time France was getting progressively weaker, Russia was perennially near collapse, and the German Navy was growing relative to the RN.
It was the Brits that had their noses and armies in/out of Europe for how many hundreds of years? And it most certainly was the Crown that violated international law blockading Germany's Northern ports in the Baltic & North Seas that led to the 750,000 Germans to starve to death in WWI and left the following generations stunted and malnourished.Also they cut the Trans-Atlantic telegraph lines another violation.And as if that wasn't enough their Royals foisted the Treaty of Versailles on them that was voted down by the United States Congress. So starved and completely broke they had an axe to grind with the Empire that the Sun never sets on.Whose Lords,Dukes,Earls,Viscounts never lost their Manors or estates from which they fox hunted and played cricket
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 04, 2022, 02:12:57 AM
I figure in 1918 they could win if the US didn't get into it. 
You were there, tell us some stories about it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 06:46:45 AM
So, after the German victory in 1871, they took some land in eastern France (Alsace in particular) that was, and is today, quite Teutonic.  Germany lost this after WW I of course.  I figure they would have paraded through Paris (again) and taken a few more slices of land and perhaps demanded some payment had they won in 1914.

Belgium was/is a British creation, a buffer state between Holland and France and Germany, and had been guaranteed by GB.  When German executed the Schlieffen plan with a wheel through Belgium, Britain entered the war.  As usual, they had relatively few ground troops to commit.  The German plan was to hit France from the less defended north instead of direct (through more challenging terrain and fortfications) and sweep west of Paris and hit behind the main French lines.  As noted, they weakened their forces because of the Russian attack in Prussia (which failed before the reinforcements got there) and went east of Paris where they were attacked by the Parisian garrison (partly aided by taxis).

The French prepared in 1940 for a repeat of the Schlieffen plan, and Manstein suggested an alternative which was adopted and bizarrely successful.

Anyway, the future could well have been much better had the Germans won WW One.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 04, 2022, 07:31:16 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Boris Yeltsin Orders Tanks to Storm Russian Parliament (1993)
As president of an independent Russia, Boris Yeltsin sought to end state control of the economy but clashed with parliament, which was controlled by former Communists. When Yeltsin suspended the parliament, it retaliated by naming Vice President Aleksandr Rutskoi as acting president, and anti-Yeltsin forces barricaded themselves inside the parliament building. The military interceded on Yeltsin's side and, after a bloody battle, troops recaptured the parliament building.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 04, 2022, 11:01:51 AM
As noted, they weakened their forces because of the Russian attack in Prussia (which failed before the reinforcements got there)
This has always struck me as a somewhat amusing historical oddity.

For those who don't know what @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) and I are talking about, here is a somewhat oversimplified brief explanation:

In 1870 Bismark goaded Napoleon's nephew who was then in control of France into declaring war against Prussia. You have to realize that this was only about 50 years after his Uncle had terrorized and invaded nearly all of Europe including briefly holding Moscow and at one point having a navy (including allies) large enough to credibly threaten to invade Britain.

Most neutral observers thought that France would crush the upstart Prussians. Britain, had been Napoleonic France's arch-nemesis and Prussia was an ally of Britain in the Napolonic wars including providing most of the ground troops at Waterloo. Additionally Britain and France had been enemies/rivals for centuries and the French were Catholic whereas the Prussians were mostly Protestant like the British.

My point is that Britain's natural sympathies were with the Prussians. Nonetheless, British newspapers were printing probable French invasion routes into Prussia in the belief, as I noted above, that the French would win. Instead the Kaiser's troops enveloped and annihalated the French Army at Sedan. Prussia unified most of the German people, the German Empire was declared and the Prussian Kaiser was crowned at Versailles.

The brand new German Empire immediately was the most powerful country on the Continent and over the next 45 years the other European powers set up a series of alliances in an attempt to provide for their defense and also to maintain a balance of power.

Schliefen was a German General who came up with Germany's plan for what was probably an inevitable war with France and Russia. Schliefen himself died before WWI but his plan was still in place when Archduke Ferdinand was assisinated in Sarajevo which ultimately set off WWI.

Schliefen assumed that it would take the Russians many months to fully mobilize and organize so his plan was to defend East Prussia with basically a token force while the vast majority of the German Army swept through Belgium to crush France and knock them out of the war quickly enough that the troops could be freed up to take on the Russians.

Schliefen's plan also specifically called for the last man on the right to "brush the channel with his sleeve". This served two purposes:
Schliefen is said to have died muttering "Only make the right wing strong!" He fundamentally understood that technology had reached a point that massively favored the defensive so he knew that Germany could defend their Eastern frontier and their border with France with very small forces but they would need overwhelming numerical superiority for their offensive on the right.

Incidentally, the French war plan was almost a mirror image of the German plan as they also intended an advance by their right wing. Consequently, when war broke out the French and Germans were each attacking on their right and defending on their left such that when viewed on an overall map it looks like they are trying to go counter-clockwise through an enormous revolving door centered on Luxembourg.

Anyway, the French attack in the South (the French right wing) was a massive failure with the Germans easily stopping them. Meanwhile, the German advance through Belgium and into Northern France was quite successful although it added two new nations to the growing list of Germany's enemies and ultimately did them in some years later.

While all of this was transpiring in the West, the Russians managed to launch an invasion of East Prussia. As it turned out this invasion was disorganized, poorly supplied, poorly led, and generally a disaster for the Russians. However, it served a valuable purpose, it spooked the Germans. Moltke (German overall commander) pulled troops out of the right wing to reinforce East Prussia. The troops pulled from the right wing were in the process of moving East when Ludendorf and Hindenburg obliterated the Russians in East Prussia. At that point Moltke ordered them back to the Western front and they were in the process of moving West when the French stopped the German advance on the Marne.

Thus, the troops did no good for the Germans at all. Had they simply been left in the right wing there is a good chance that the French counter-attack would have been overwhelmed, France would have fallen, and Germany would have won WWI.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 11:10:11 AM
The First Battle of Bull Run was kind of similar on a far far smaller scale.  The Confederates and the Union forces both attacked on their right flanks.  Neither made much progress, but the arrival of fresh rebels from the Shenandoah turned the tables on the Union right which disintegrated.

I figure had Germany won WW One, they'd have taken some French land, probably not much, maybe neutralized Belgium,  maybe absorbed Luxembourg, and sat back with the Kaiser firmly in control and looking east.  Hitler would never have happened.  Germany might well then have really knocked Russia back and taken land from them.  The Austro-hungarian "empire" would have tottered along a while longer, the Ottoman empire would have lasted longer.

Kaiser Wilhem II and the King of Great Britain were first cousins, as was Tsar Alexander.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 08:11:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rJnhxhM.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 09:41:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Gb9hNXh.png)

Pont du Gard aqueduct in France.  It really is astonishing what was built back in the day, and still stands.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 09:43:06 AM
Pont du Gard, (French: “Bridge of the Gard”) giant bridge-aqueduct (https://www.britannica.com/technology/aqueduct-engineering), a notable ancient Roman engineering work constructed about 19 BCE to carry water to the city of Nîmes (https://www.britannica.com/place/Nimes) over the Gard River in southern France (https://www.britannica.com/place/France). Augustus Caesar (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Augustus-Roman-emperor)’s son-in-law and aide, Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Marcus-Vipsanius-Agrippa), is credited with its conception (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conception). It is listed as a UNESCO (https://www.britannica.com/topic/UNESCO) World Heritage site (https://www.britannica.com/topic/World-Heritage-site).

Three tiers of arches rise to a height of 47 metres (155 feet). The first tier is composed of 6 arches, from 15 to 24 metres (51 to 80 feet) wide, the largest spanning the river; the second tier is composed of 11 arches of the same dimensions; and the third, carrying the conduit (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conduit), is composed of 35 smaller (4.6-metre [15-foot]) arches. Like many of the best Roman constructions, it was built without mortar (https://www.britannica.com/technology/mortar-building-material). The structure was severely damaged in the 5th century but was restored in 1743.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 05, 2022, 11:44:43 AM
[img width=273.429 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/rJnhxhM.png[/img]
Does John Ratzenberger appear in this picture as Cliff Claven (his Cheers character and drinking buddy of Norm Peterson whom he us next to), or as Rebel Force Major Derlin (his Star Wars character from Episode V)?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 05, 2022, 11:50:53 AM
[img width=273.429 height=337]https://i.imgur.com/Gb9hNXh.png[/img]

Pont du Gard aqueduct in France.  It really is astonishing what was built back in the day, and still stands.
It has been more than 30 years since I last visited Europe but this was amazing to me even at a young age. Here in the US anything over 400 years old is incredibly rare and in my area of Ohio the cities and townships are celebrating bicentennials having been established around 1800-1830 or so.

In Europe those things are viewed as new. I remember a beer coaster I collected in Bavaria that had "Family Owned since 1485" printed on it. It occurred to me that Christopher Columbus or his crew may have had some of that beer 🍺 before they left on their famous voyage.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 05, 2022, 12:21:32 PM
Didn't the Pilgrims stop because they were out of Bier?
(https://i.imgur.com/6CLxID5.png)

https://www.seriouseats.com/beer-myths-corn-pilgrims-first-beer-thanksgiving-lager-prohibition-history
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 02:01:49 PM
A photograph took after the war at "Bloody Angle" Spotsylvania Court House. 

The sign reads: "On Fame's eternal camping ground, Their silent tents are spread, And Glory guards, with solemn round, The Bivouac of the dead."

Sergeant Cyrus R. Watson of Company K, Forty-fifth North Carolina wrote of the Angle after the battle:
"It was a bright May day. There was no fighting on any part of the line, and by permission I went. The pickets permitted me to pass, and I went over the breastworks to that portion of the field which had been occupied by Ramseur's Brigade. On my arrival in this angle, I could well see why the enemy had withdrawn their lines. The stench was almost unbearable. There was dead artillery horses in considerable numbers that had been killed on the 10th and in the early morning of the 12th.
Along these lines of breastworks where the earth had been excavated to the depth of one or two feet and thrown over, making the breastworks, I found these trenches filled with water (for there had been much rain) and in this water lay the dead bodies of friend and foe commingled, in many instances one laying across the other, and in one or more instances I saw as many as three lying across one another. All over the field lay the dead of both armies by hundreds, many of them mangled by shells. Many of the bodies swollen out of all proportion, some with their guns yet grasped in their hands. Now and then one could be seen covered with a blanket, which had been placed over him by a comrade after he had fallen.
These bodies were decaying. The water was red, almost black with blood. Offensive flies were everywhere. The trees, saplings and shrubs were torn and shattered beyond description; guns, some of them broken, bayonets, canteens and cartridge boxes were scattered about, and the whole scene was such that no pen can, or ever will describe it. I have seen many fields after severe conflicts, but nowhere have I seen anything half so ghastly.
I returned to my company and said to old man Thomas Carroll, a private in the company, who was frying meat at a fire, You would have saved rations by going with me, for I will have no more appetite for a week."


(https://i.imgur.com/Vn5mhTk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2022, 08:46:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/JyljWPl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kNAuthy.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 09:11:17 AM
The first Hollywood stunt man was ex-U.S. cavalryman Frank Hanaway who was cast in The Great Train Robbery (1903) for his ability to fall off a horse without hurting himself.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 10:01:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Cubana Flight 455 Bombed (1976)
The bombing of Cubana Flight 455 killed all 78 people on board, including several Cuban government officials. At that time, it constituted the most deadly act of airline terrorism ever carried out in the Western Hemisphere. An investigation uncovered evidence implicating anti-Castro Cuban exiles and members of the Venezuelan secret police in the plot. Four men were arrested: two received 20-year prison terms, one was acquitted, and another fled.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 06, 2022, 10:04:59 AM
Didn't the Pilgrims stop because they were out of Bier?
[img width=273.429 height=320]https://i.imgur.com/6CLxID5.png[/img]

https://www.seriouseats.com/beer-myths-corn-pilgrims-first-beer-thanksgiving-lager-prohibition-history
I doubt it, the Pilgrims were teetotalers. An ancestor of mine (not a member of their church) accompanied them on their voyage and was later fined for operating a "tavern" on a Sunday which was illegal in their settlement.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 06, 2022, 10:11:38 AM
So they had the taverns :singing:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 06, 2022, 10:20:51 AM
So they had the taverns :singing:
An illegal one run by my great-great- . . .great-grandfather!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 10, 2022, 10:02:29 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

The first Ferris wheel was invented in 1893 for the World's Columbian Exhibition in Chicago. The ride was over 264 feet tall and featured passenger cars that weighed over 1,200 lbs and were roughly the size of a city bus. Although the original was demolished in 1906, a 15-story replica can be found at Navy Pier of Chicago.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 10, 2022, 11:19:57 AM
What are some good Christopher Columbus stories? 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2022, 12:01:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ieN5mvw.png)

A thing that surprised me back when was that Germany and Italy are relatively new countries.  

I also learned that Swedes and Danes still don't like each other.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2022, 12:04:55 PM
Ottoman Empire enters the First World War - The Ottoman Empire | NZHistory, New Zealand history online (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/war/ottoman-empire/enters-the-war)

A few days later the German battlecruiser SMS Goeben and the light cruiser SMS Breslau appeared off the Dardanelles, after evading the French and British fleets in a daring dash through the Mediterranean. They requested passage through the straits to Constantinople. After delicate negotiations – and over Sait’s objections – they were allowed to proceed. A week later the two warships – complete with their German crews – were officially ‘transferred’ to the Ottoman Navy and renamed the Yavuz Sultan Selim and Midilli. The British refused to recognise the transfer unless the German crews were removed, and the Royal Navy blockaded the entrance of the Dardanelles to enforce this demand.
(https://nzhistory.govt.nz/files/images/kaiser-dardanelles.thumbnail.jpg) (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14667)
Kaiser Wilhelm II visits The Dardanelles (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14667)

This rapid escalation in tension quickly led to the withdrawal of the British mission to the Ottoman Navy. In late August, General Liman von Sanders, head of the German military mission to the Ottoman Empire, was appointed commander of the Ottoman First Army (whose remit included the Gallipoli Peninsula). Rear-Admiral Wilhelm Souchon, the German naval commander of the Goeben and Breslau, was appointed by Cemal Pasha to command the Ottoman Navy. Although the Ottoman Empire was still ostensibly neutral at this point, Cemal then appointed German Vice-Admiral Guido von Usedom as ‘Inspector-General of Coastal Defences and Mines’. Von Usedom’s job was to help the Ottoman Army strengthen the coastal defences along both the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles. He arrived in Constantinople on 19 August with a specialist military team of 500 German officers and men. These actions did not go unnoticed in the Allied capitals.
The pro-war faction in the Ottoman government knew that the Germans wanted to bring the empire into the war as quickly as possible. Through such blatant manipulation of the military mission arrangements in favour of Germany, Enver, Cemal and their supporters were clearly signalling where their sympathies lay. By provoking an increasingly belligerent response from the Allied powers, they made it harder for Sait to argue the case for continued neutrality.
(https://nzhistory.govt.nz/files/images/ottoman-declaration-war.thumbnail.jpg) (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14741)
Ottoman Empire declares war, November 1914 (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14741)

But as the weeks dragged by, Enver grew impatient. On 25 October 1914, without consulting any of his ministerial colleagues, he ordered Admiral Souchon to take the Ottoman fleet, including the German-crewed ships, into the Black Sea to attack the Russians. The fleet carried out surprise raids on Theodosia, Novorossisk, Odessa and Sevastopol, sinking a Russian minelayer, a gunboat and 14 civilian ships. On 2 November, Russia declared war on the Ottoman Empire. France and the British Empire, Russia’s wartime allies, followed suit on the 5th. Enver Pasha had succeeded in bringing the Ottoman Empire into the First World War on the side of the Central Powers, Germany and Austria-Hungary. Whether he would be as successful in achieving his principle war aim – pan-Turkic expansion into Central Asia at Russia′s expense – was another question.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2022, 08:11:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Columbus Makes Landfall in the Caribbean (1492)
Believing that Asia could be reached by traveling westward, Columbus's three-ship expedition set sail from Palos, Spain, in 1492. After a stop at the Canary Islands, Columbus sailed due west, turning in a more southerly direction after about a month at sea. Shortly thereafter, Columbus quelled a small mutiny, and, on October 12, landed at an island in the Bahamas. Columbus also explored nearby Cuba and Hispaniola before returning to Spain.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 18, 2022, 05:14:43 PM
This strange object is an armored cloche defensive fortification.
Armored cloches (meaning bell) were a type of static defense that provided its occupants protection and a wide field of fire. They were made of incredibly thick cast steel (this one being between 200-300 mm).
The square holes near the top are firing ports (the rest are out of view) that give the crew a 360 degree view around the cloche. A machine gun was mounted on a rail system around the inside, and could be relocated to fire through each port. When not in use, ports could be plugged from the inside.
The cloches would be submerged in concrete above a shaft and form part of a larger bunker complex. Only the upper portion above the firing ports would be visible. Defenders entered, exited and resupplied the cloche from the shaft below.
This particular example weighs around 60 tons and is likely a German 20P7. It was relocated from Cherbourg to its present location at the =AZWC-8oz2geOyWOU9egiZYwfpohS0SukYTz0KPANzmOCf4um6F7BAISEa10Zeef4IyVqBMUz2t8y6RoNuVLRRukDak-v_7PV_dmj4N_6Q0NiSxirTqmUGZCFktW1gd_kFoVkkbVwxK510A1R91XVRuHma7--bBSRQK5Aq-Jz4WcKGflSfS7_-bqvW6SbCV5hiQKn0kkaMDOew3IfeGxJ38X2&__tn__=-]K-R"][color=var(--accent)]Musée D-Day Omaha (http://"https://www.facebook.com/museeddayomaha?__cft__[0)[/iurl], near Omaha Beach, Normandy, France.[/font][/font][/size][/color]
The circular marks are shell impacts. None penetrated.


(https://i.imgur.com/RtEO6Sb.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 18, 2022, 07:36:02 PM
What are some good Christopher Columbus stories?
He discovered a land already populated by people.
He discovered a land already discovered hundreds of years earlier.
He never actually set foot on the mainland of North America.
He labeled native Americans 'Indians,' despite being over 7,000 miles from India.
.
But he's so cool and due solely to ignorant tradition, we should celebrate him.
That about sum it up?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2022, 08:23:05 AM
In the early 1600s, scientists were facing a theoretical and practical problem: a  pump could only raise water up to a height of 10 metres (34 ft).  Galileo[/iurl] argued that suction pumps were able to draw water from a well because of the "force of vacuum." This argument, however, failed to explain the fact that suction pumps could only raise water to a height of 10 metres. Then an Italian man (student of Galileo) solved this puzzle by proposing that we live in a "sea of air" that exerts a pressure and then invented the That great Italian man is our "scientist of the day" today.
It's the birthday of EvangelistaTorricelli[/iurl], the first man to create a sustained vacuum --
(Scientist of the Day - 15 October)
Torricelli was fascinated by astronomy and was a student & strong supporter of Galileo. After Galileo's trial in 1633, he realised that he would be on dangerous ground were he to continue with his interests in the Copernican[/iurl] theory so he deliberately shifted his attention onto mathematical areas which seemed less controversial.
In 1643, Torricelli filled a meter-long tube (with one end sealed off) with mercury[/iurl] (13 times denser than water) and setting it vertically into a basin of the liquid metal. The column of mercury fell to about 76 cm (30 inch), producing a Torricellian vacuum above. This was the first recorded incident of creating permanent vacuum[/iurl]. This work laid the foundations for the modern concept of atmospheric pressure, the first barometer and the first pressure altimeter.
The solution to the suction pump puzzle and the discovery of the principle of the barometer and altimeter have perpetuated Torricelli's fame with terms such as "Torricellian tube" & "Torricellian vacuum". 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2022, 08:23:53 AM
.
But he's so cool and due solely to ignorant tradition, we should celebrate him.
That about sum it up?
"Celebrate" is not the right word, in my view, but his actions had an enormous impact on history.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2022, 08:52:47 PM
yup, no fireworks or backyard parties or drink specials
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 21, 2022, 08:26:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Florence Nightingale Sent to Treat War Wounded (1854)
Though Nightingale's parents opposed their daughter's pursuit of a career in nursing, she persevered and is now considered the founder of modern nursing. During the Crimean War, she traveled to Turkey to treat the British wounded, earning the nickname "The Lady with the Lamp" for her devotion to the troops' care. Upon her return, she wrote Notes on Nursing, the first nursing textbook, and founded the Nightingale Training School.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2022, 08:59:23 AM
Now here's something you don't or didnt't see every day. NOT a Superfortress, it's a proposed 'Ultrafortress B-54':

"This Superfortress, B-29-25-BW (42-24441), was modified under “Project S68” in late 1944 for manned turrets evaluation purposes. Instead of the B-29’s sophisticated defensive system, it was fitted with a pair of manned Martin turrets in the top fuselage; two Sperry A-2 ball turrets (one visible behind the nose wheels strut) on bottom of the fuselage and this outrageous pair of Emmerson 136 “jowl” barbettes on the nose."
(https://i.imgur.com/nyp8DqX.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2022, 02:36:16 PM
The Elefant - Both Excellent and Terrible - Tank Historia (https://tankhistoria.com/wwii/elefant/?fbclid=IwAR16mg_C4q-Fb25XTJctgDRl8y9ytTI0amG56VHISPF9Uq6ZJ11ad74GZP8)

(https://i.imgur.com/i2v2pOZ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 21, 2022, 06:59:27 PM
In 1963, San Francisco Giants pitcher Gaylord Perry famously declared, "They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run."

On July 20, 1969, just 20 minutes after Neil Armstrong became the first human being ever to walk on the moon, Perry hit the first, and only, home run of his career.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/312493453_566284858831790_424834351433102066_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=MUzfgDX6JBIAX_LQSRK&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_fNxk0sHbxswaWGpDATJQvjmIyxts4l4aoZue_XutGoQ&oe=635719DC)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2022, 05:26:14 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Kennedy Confirms Missile Presence in Cuba (1962)
The Cuban Missile Crisis was a major Cold War confrontation that began when US reconnaissance flights uncovered Soviet missile sites in Cuba. President John F. Kennedy denounced the Soviet actions, imposed a naval blockade on Cuba, and vowed that the US would retaliate against any missile launched from Cuba. After hovering on the brink of war for several days, the two superpowers were able to reach a compromise.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2022, 05:28:01 PM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY:
Curly Howard (1903)
Jerome Lester Horwitz, a man best known as "Curly Howard" or simply "Curly," was arguably the most popular member of the legendary comedy trio the Three Stooges. He appeared in nearly 100 Three Stooges shorts before suffering a career-ending stroke. According to brother and fellow Stooge Moe Howard, Curly often struggled with his lines and instead improvised the visual and vocal nonsense that became hallmarks of his character.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2022, 12:51:09 PM
20 Images Chronicling Custer’s Last Stand

The Battle of Little Bighorn, more commonly known as Custer’s Last stand, was fought June 25-26, 1876 between the U.S. 7th Cavalry and the Lakota, Northern Cheyenne, and the Arapaho tribes. The 7th Cavalry suffered an overwhelming defeat with five of the Cavalry’s twelve companies being completely decimated.

As settlers headed west into the Great Plains in the second half of the 19th century, tensions between the United States and the Natives grew to conflicts known as the Sioux Wars.

During the Sun Dance, the most important religious ceremony of the year for the Lakota and Cheyenne, spiritual leader Sitting Bull had a vision of “soldiers falling into his camp like grasshoppers from the sky.”

On June 25, Custer’s scouts saw a large band of horses and a Native village. Custer, after the Cavalry had been spotted by hostiles, elected to begin the attack immediately.

Custer was told before the expedition that there would be no more than 800 warriors. Due to a protest of the U.S. government policies by ‘reservation Indians,’ many more joined Sitting Bull for the summer buffalo hunt. There were between 1,500 and 2,500 warriors.



https://historycollection.com/20-images-chronicling-custers-last-stand/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=HC8&utm_campaign=23851527742120447&utm_content=23851527740820447_23851527741410447 (https://historycollection.com/20-images-chronicling-custers-last-stand/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=HC8&utm_campaign=23851527742120447&utm_content=23851527740820447_23851527741410447)

(https://cdn.historycollection.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Comanche-Captain-Keoghs-Mount-the-Only-Survivor-of-Custers-Last-Stand.-Pinterest.jpg)

Comanche, Captain Keogh’s Mount, allegedly the Only Survivor of Custer’s Last Stand.

(https://cdn.historycollection.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Capt.-Myles-W.-Keogh-and-troopers-of-Company-I-were-killed-here.-Photograph-taken-in-1877.National-Park-Service.jpg)

Capt. Myles W. Keogh and troopers of Company I were killed here. Photograph taken in 1877. National Park Service

(https://cdn.historycollection.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Custers-Last-Stand-Custers-men-before-the-Battle-Of-Little-Big-Horn.-Pinterest.jpg)
(https://cdn.historycollection.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Three-of-Custers-scouts-accompanying-Edward-Curtis-on-his-investigative-tour-of-the-battlefield-circa-1907.-Wikimedia.jpg)


(https://cdn.historycollection.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/bones-of-the-dead-from-Custers-Last-Stand.-history.com_.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2022, 01:25:25 PM
Just saw a segment on some historian/battle field detective team trying to piece together where the spoils of war went after the battle.Like saddles,guns,uniforms,tools anything of use - the Indians were quite resourceful and creative putting items to good use out of necessity.Turns out they think the Crow Tribe made off with much of it.As the 3 tribes you mentioned fled after the battle. The Crow and Arikara were allied with the Blue Coats because the Souix/Cheyenne/Arapaho had driven them from those lands that were theirs.

 Ironically the Chippewa were driven out of places by the Northern Cheyenne who inturn were ousted by the Lakota Souix but later they allied because of the settlers/miners moving in.See it wasn't all Kumbaya with the Native Peoples.Anyway with metal detectors and ground penetrating radar they able to track up into the ravines,gulleys,recesses of sandstone hills miles away.Unfortunately they had to stop as they were upon an old burial ground that was revered so they could go no further
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2022, 01:40:54 PM
I've been to the battlefield a couple times
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2022, 01:44:27 PM
Lot more than 9-18-36 holes out there
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2022, 02:09:43 PM
yup, but not MORE fun
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 24, 2022, 07:05:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QA0pDXX.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 24, 2022, 09:53:31 AM
Sporty car!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 25, 2022, 01:51:57 PM
admin,+Journal+manager,+Babitz (1).pdf (http://file:///C:/Users/jcdoo/Downloads/admin,+Journal+manager,+Babitz (1).pdf)

In Bush v. Gore (2000), the Supreme Court affirmed that “the individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for Electors for the President of the United State unless and until the state legislature chooses a statewide election as the means to implement its power to appoint members of the Electoral College … [the state legislature] may, if it so chooses, select the Electors itself.”

In fact, states utilized both direct selection by their state legislatures and popular election (in two general forms) for the first several Presidential elections. The three general modes employed were: (i) direct selection by the state legislature (hereinafter the “direct legislative choice method”); (ii) election of Electors by popular vote within separate districts of the state (hereinafter the “district election method”); and (iii) election of the entire slate of Electors by statewide “winner-take-all” popular vote (hereinafter the “general ticket method”). 

Beginning with the first Presidential elections, political factions used the array of methods available for choosing Electors to seek implementation of the mode that would be most favorable to their candidates. As a result, state legislatures often changed their method of selection in a particular Presidential election year depending upon which method would yield the best result based on their partisan preferences or based on a compromise within a particular legislature between opposing parties. 

For example, from 1800 through 1820, Massachusetts changed between the direct legislative choice method (in years where one party dominated the Legislature) and a district election method (when a split Legislature compromised to allow for a possible split of Electors). Similarly, New Jersey and North Carolina also engaged in switching methods based on partisanship during this period (McCormick 32, 109).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2022, 05:09:30 AM
Cincinnati chili celebrates 100 years: Here's who we have to thank for it (wcpo.com) (https://www.wcpo.com/longform/cincinnati-chili-we-cant-eat-enough-of-it-heres-where-it-started?fbclid=IwAR08GZU9noPBNd5SU9KCz4yJPTlUK2FReOCgO9QD5ZSaLTkXlra-8Gk_WrU)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 27, 2022, 06:28:20 AM
Be my guess there's not much celebrating going on out side of there.I've had it yrs ago it was all right,definately not Chili - ya know the stuff with meat/beans in it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2022, 06:32:03 AM
Yeah, it took me a while (years) to get used to its  being something other than normal chili as I knew the dish, but then I accepted it and ate it a few times a month or so.  I think too much is made over the moniker, if it was called something else, it might get broader interest.

We have all kinds of other dishes with many variations and nobody gets upset about it, usually.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 27, 2022, 09:12:15 AM
The first speeding ticket was issued in 1902. At this time, most cars could only drive up to 45 mph.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 27, 2022, 10:14:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Treaty of Madrid Signed (1795)
The Treaty of Madrid—also called Pinckney's Treaty or the Treaty of San Lorenzo—was an agreement between the fledgling nation of the United States and colonial Spain. It defined the boundaries between the US and Spanish colonies to the south and west, and it secured the US rights to navigate the Mississippi River, which was a critical waterway for trade. The signatories also agreed not to incite native tribes to warfare.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2022, 11:29:51 AM
Time line – The Varsity (https://thevarsity.com/pages/time-line)

(https://i.imgur.com/D3xOhCu.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 27, 2022, 02:36:47 PM
Time line – The Varsity (https://thevarsity.com/pages/time-line)

[img width=273.429 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/D3xOhCu.png[/img]
I ate there when I was in town for the Final Four. I wasn't all that impressed. That isn't to say it was bad, just didn't live up to the buildup IMHO.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2022, 03:00:51 PM
It's mediocre, at best, in my opinion.  It's just a local thing I reckon, been around forever.  It also got relatively expensive.

There are PLENTY of better places for that sort of food.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2022, 07:53:38 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Bernie Ecclestone (1930)
Ecclestone is a controversial British business magnate and one of the most powerful people in the world of Formula One (F1) racing. Briefly a racer, he gave up the sport after several accidents but later returned as a manager and team owner. In the 1970s, he secured his position in the F1 organization by negotiating TV broadcasting rights, vastly increasing the sport's popularity. In 2004, the billionaire's home became the most expensive ever sold when a steel magnate bought it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on October 28, 2022, 08:57:22 AM
He discovered a land already populated by people.
He discovered a land already discovered hundreds of years earlier.
He never actually set foot on the mainland of North America.
He labeled native Americans 'Indians,' despite being over 7,000 miles from India.
.
But he's so cool and due solely to ignorant tradition, we should celebrate him.
That about sum it up?
Columbus Day was never a big deal around these parts. I learned later in life that apparently it was a big deal in the NE.  Maybe others can chime in. 

The thing I always understood about Columbus is that he was the first with enough guts to strike out West over a pretty large portion of ocean that had never been successful explored by European nations. He was absolutely seeking fortune.  

while it sucks that the native people suffered at the arrival of the Europeans was there an inherent reason why they couldn’t settle these areas?  Most tribes in the New World ( yes I’m aware people lived here for tens of thousands of years prior) were nomadic. They had no formal government, little written language, very little technology, no science, no concept of most of what made up European society. The tribes were constantly at war with each other, just with not much technology. Hell, the Aztecs were probably some of the most advanced and they were basically Nazi Natives.  One might argue that defeating them wasn’t bad. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2022, 10:01:40 AM
Erasing 99.9% of any population from a continent is bad (unless you meant Aztecs, specifically).
.
I think to this day, a majority of people think 'less advanced' = worse
And in terms of comfort, sure.  That's accurate.  But our comfortable, advanced lifestyles aren't sustainable without major changes.  We're quick to innovate and slow to mitigate.  
Personally, I value tribal peoples simply due to the fact that while we can damn rivers and clear-cut forests, we don't have to.  We can live in harmony with nature (not to sound like a hippy or whatever).  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 10:08:49 AM
The natives in America were not some version of "people living in harmony with Nature" types.  They did so because of low population density and little technology.  As noted, they fought with each other often and had some rather extreme religious views (so did the Catholics that came over often as not).  At any rate, when a technically superior people encounter the opposite, bad things happen, every time, in global history.  Spain became a world power simply due to the wealth extracted from the New World.  Europe also greatly benefited as well of course.  

I just read a book about the transcontinental railroad in the US.  The locals tried to inhibit it, and were almost wiped out in the region as a result.  (I don't think this was his best effort, reading it was a slog.)

(https://i.imgur.com/j7JTyix.png)

At any rate, Columbus had an enormous impact on global history.  Someone else would have managed it later obviously.  The Portuguese were already making great strides on navigation and shipping.  The Chinese had a great fleet around that time as well that they basically abandoned, they might well have done it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2022, 10:11:24 AM
Erasing 99.9% of any population from a continent is bad (unless you meant Aztecs, specifically).
.
I think to this day, a majority of people think 'less advanced' = worse
And in terms of comfort, sure.  That's accurate.  But our comfortable, advanced lifestyles aren't sustainable without major changes.  We're quick to innovate and slow to mitigate. 
Personally, I value tribal peoples simply due to the fact that while we can damn rivers and clear-cut forests, we don't have to.  We can live in harmony with nature (not to sound like a hippy or whatever). 
99.9 might have been an exaggeration
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on October 28, 2022, 10:18:56 AM
Erasing 99.9% of any population from a continent is bad (unless you meant Aztecs, specifically).
.
I think to this day, a majority of people think 'less advanced' = worse
And in terms of comfort, sure.  That's accurate.  But our comfortable, advanced lifestyles aren't sustainable without major changes.  We're quick to innovate and slow to mitigate. 
Personally, I value tribal peoples simply due to the fact that while we can damn rivers and clear-cut forests, we don't have to.  We can live in harmony with nature (not to sound like a hippy or whatever). 
And yet, unless you're 100% native American, you're here because of what took place.  

Serious question for you:  When the European settlers arrived starting in the 1500's did the natives have any right to keep them from coming?  There were no boundaries, no maps, no government, no laws as we know them.  They inhabited the lands, but like I said most were nomadic and didn't "live" where the settlers moved in.  So the people with the best technology won, as is usually the case.  

From accounts on the western front the attacks the natives put on the settlers could be brutal, it was definitely a war from both sides perspective.  I think after about a couple of hundred years the natives finally realized they were going to be squeezed out and decided to fight back.  The settlers just wanted to get their piece of land and live.  Worlds collided and stuff.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 10:22:09 AM
I don't think the natives in the East were nomadic very much at all, they had settled towns and villages and stayed there, and built the various "mounds" hither and yon, which indicates they resided in the same place for long periods.  The Aztecs and Mayans clearly settled in one place and built impressive cities.

They certainly had government, totalitarian apparently.  Mexico City at that time was very impressive.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 10:35:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ieN5mvw.png)

A thing that surprised me back when was that Germany and Italy are relatively new countries. 

I also learned that Swedes and Danes still don't like each other.
This "late to the scene" issue massively contributed to both World Wars in the 20th Century.  The history of how Germany was formed is a long and complicated one but the short version is that up until Napoleon they had been a collection of minor "kingdoms" or "duchys" that were at least nominally independent but frequently allied together into larger groups out of necessity.  Thus the Hanseatic League and the Holy Roman Empire.  

The Holy Roman Empire was famously neither holy nor roman nor an empire.  Rather, it was a loose alliance of minor Germanic kingdoms and it was nearly always dominated by the Austrians.  

As Prussia grew in size and power there came to be a conflict between two most powerful Germanic kingdoms, Prussia in the north and and Austria in the south.  Adding fuel to the fire of this conflict was the fact that most northern Germans were Protestant Lutherans while most Southern Germans were Catholics.  Prussia and Austria fought a war in 1866.  This war was right after the American Civil War which ended in 1865 and just before the Franco-Prussian War of 1870.  The fact that it came before the Franco-Prussian war is not coincidental.  Bismark HAD to secure his southern flank before he could take on France.  Then he goaded the famous Napoleon's nephew into declaring war on Prussia and promptly kicked the living crap out of the French.  

The German empire was declared IN France at the conclusion of the Franco-Prussian War.  Then, finally, the bulk of the German people were united into one nation but there were two major problems that would cause issues going forward:

The established powers (England, France, Russia) formed an alliance to maintain their power and the less established powers of Germany and Italy formed their own alliance.  The Austro-Hungarian Empire was more-or-less forced into the German/Italian camp because the established powers saw them for the fading military power that they were and weren't really interested in allying with them.  The Germany-Austria-Italy alliance, however, was always tenuous at best.  Italy and Austria had territorial disputes all along their border most notably South Tyrol and Trieste and there were always a large number of people in the German Empire who wanted to unite all Germans into ONE Germany.  This, of course, was problematic for the Hapsburgs as they ruled a substantial number of Ethnic Germans in Austria and beyond.  Worse for the Hapsburgs, there were a lot of German people within their own lands who felt more loyalty to their Germanic cousins in the German Empire than to their own perceived foreign rulers.  One example of this is a certain Austrian who joined not he Austrian but the German Army in WWI, rose to Corporal, and later became infamous.  

When WWI came, the Italians bowed out and eventually joined the other side through a treaty that looks more like a Real Estate Contract because it was.  The British and French wanted to endanger the Southern flank of the Austrians and they traded land to Italy to accomplish that goal.  

Interestingly, when the Austro-Hungarian Empire was collapsing the Germanic portions of it declared their independence as the "Republic of German Austria" with the stated goal of merging with Germany.  Ie, Anschluss wasn't something that Hitler dreamed up on his own, it had been the express goal of Austria as formed.  Additionally, the Republic of German Austria also claimed all of the German Speaking areas of the old empire which included a number of areas that would become problematic a quarter century later when the Nazi's claimed them.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 10:40:58 AM
Ottoman Empire enters the First World War - The Ottoman Empire | NZHistory, New Zealand history online (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/war/ottoman-empire/enters-the-war)

A few days later the German battlecruiser SMS Goeben and the light cruiser SMS Breslau appeared off the Dardanelles, after evading the French and British fleets in a daring dash through the Mediterranean. They requested passage through the straits to Constantinople. After delicate negotiations – and over Sait’s objections – they were allowed to proceed. A week later the two warships – complete with their German crews – were officially ‘transferred’ to the Ottoman Navy and renamed the Yavuz Sultan Selim and Midilli. The British refused to recognise the transfer unless the German crews were removed, and the Royal Navy blockaded the entrance of the Dardanelles to enforce this demand.
(https://nzhistory.govt.nz/files/images/kaiser-dardanelles.thumbnail.jpg) (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14667)
Kaiser Wilhelm II visits The Dardanelles (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14667)

This rapid escalation in tension quickly led to the withdrawal of the British mission to the Ottoman Navy. In late August, General Liman von Sanders, head of the German military mission to the Ottoman Empire, was appointed commander of the Ottoman First Army (whose remit included the Gallipoli Peninsula). Rear-Admiral Wilhelm Souchon, the German naval commander of the Goeben and Breslau, was appointed by Cemal Pasha to command the Ottoman Navy. Although the Ottoman Empire was still ostensibly neutral at this point, Cemal then appointed German Vice-Admiral Guido von Usedom as ‘Inspector-General of Coastal Defences and Mines’. Von Usedom’s job was to help the Ottoman Army strengthen the coastal defences along both the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles. He arrived in Constantinople on 19 August with a specialist military team of 500 German officers and men. These actions did not go unnoticed in the Allied capitals.
The pro-war faction in the Ottoman government knew that the Germans wanted to bring the empire into the war as quickly as possible. Through such blatant manipulation of the military mission arrangements in favour of Germany, Enver, Cemal and their supporters were clearly signalling where their sympathies lay. By provoking an increasingly belligerent response from the Allied powers, they made it harder for Sait to argue the case for continued neutrality.
(https://nzhistory.govt.nz/files/images/ottoman-declaration-war.thumbnail.jpg) (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14741)
Ottoman Empire declares war, November 1914 (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14741)

But as the weeks dragged by, Enver grew impatient. On 25 October 1914, without consulting any of his ministerial colleagues, he ordered Admiral Souchon to take the Ottoman fleet, including the German-crewed ships, into the Black Sea to attack the Russians. The fleet carried out surprise raids on Theodosia, Novorossisk, Odessa and Sevastopol, sinking a Russian minelayer, a gunboat and 14 civilian ships. On 2 November, Russia declared war on the Ottoman Empire. France and the British Empire, Russia’s wartime allies, followed suit on the 5th. Enver Pasha had succeeded in bringing the Ottoman Empire into the First World War on the side of the Central Powers, Germany and Austria-Hungary. Whether he would be as successful in achieving his principle war aim – pan-Turkic expansion into Central Asia at Russia′s expense – was another question.
This is a rare example of both a German diplomatic success and a British diplomatic failure.  

The German gift of Goeben and Breslau to the Turks effectively cost the Germans nothing as the ships otherwise would have been trapped in the Mediterranean where the British would have eventually found and destroyed them.  Coincidentally, at the exact same time the British in a VERY uncharacteristically undiplomatic move notified the Turks that several warships the Turks had ordered from British Yards and PAID FOR would NOT be delivered because they had been taken into service in the Royal Navy due to the conflict.  The Turks were understandably furious that the ships they had paid for were summarily stolen by the British and that contributed to their goodwill toward the Germans who gave them the warships they wanted.  

It didn't change the outcome of the war but it certainly made things more difficult for the Allies as their Dardnelles campaign (one of Churchill's least successful ideas) was a catastrophe.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 10:52:54 AM
He discovered a land already populated by people.
He discovered a land already discovered hundreds of years earlier.
He never actually set foot on the mainland of North America.
He labeled native Americans 'Indians,' despite being over 7,000 miles from India.
.
But he's so cool and due solely to ignorant tradition, we should celebrate him.
That about sum it up?
These are just silly arguments:

"He discovered a land already populated by people."  
During the age of discovery the Europeans mapped the world.  It is true that the lands that they "discovered" had obviously already been "found" by the people living there but prior to the 15th century the people living in the Americas had no idea that there were other continents with people living in them and vice-versa.  By the end of the 16th century there was a fairly accurate world map and educated people anywhere in the world could read about most of the other people in the world.  

"He discovered a land already discovered hundreds of years earlier."  
Yes, the Vikings did get to North America.  This was long rumored and finally proven a few decades ago through an archeological dig that conclusively proved a pre-Columbian Viking presence in North America.  The problem with this as an argument is obvious by the need to prove their presence through archeological digs.  The Vikings got here but they didn't tell anybody and they themselves only had a vague oral-tradition rumor.  When Columbus found America it stayed found.  

"He never actually set foot on the mainland of North America."  
So what?  He conclusively proved that if you sailed West from the Canary Islands you WOULD hit land before your supplies ran out.  That opened up the exploration that followed.  

"He labeled native Americans 'Indians' despite being over 7,000 miles from India."  
Columbus had substantially overestimated the distance across Eurasia and underestimated the circumference of the Earth.  The combination of the two errors led to him believing that by the time he had crossed the Atlantic he was somewhere in the vicinity of China or India.  Yeah, he was off by ~7kmi but the point is that he got here and showed others that you could do it and he was followed by a wave of exploration like nothing the world had seen before.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 10:58:38 AM
At any rate, Columbus had an enormous impact on global history.  Someone else would have managed it later obviously.  The Portuguese were already making great strides on navigation and shipping.  The Chinese had a great fleet around that time as well that they basically abandoned, they might well have done it.
I assume you know this but the whole reason the Spanish financed a Westward exploratory voyage was because the Portuguese had already locked them out of the Southern (around Africa) route.  The spice trade with China in those days was lucrative but difficult.  Trekking from Europe through the Khyber Pass and all the way to China and back would make a man a lot of money but it took years and there was a substantial chance that he would die either of disease or in a conflict with thieves or hostile natives on the way.  Additionally, wagons could only carry so much.  By that time the Europeans were capable of building ships large enough to make the voyage much more profitable than the wagon-trek.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 10:59:43 AM
(not to sound like a hippy or whatever). 
Of course you do, we're used to it ;)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 11:02:07 AM
Erasing 99.9% of any population from a continent is bad (unless you meant Aztecs, specifically).
.
I think to this day, a majority of people think 'less advanced' = worse
And in terms of comfort, sure.  That's accurate.  But our comfortable, advanced lifestyles aren't sustainable without major changes.  We're quick to innovate and slow to mitigate. 
Personally, I value tribal peoples simply due to the fact that while we can damn rivers and clear-cut forests, we don't have to.  We can live in harmony with nature (not to sound like a hippy or whatever). 
First of all, it wasn't 99.9%.  

Second, I'm simply not going to hold this as a unique sin of the Europeans.  In all of world history when populations have bumped up against one-another there have been winners and losers.  This same process was occurring within the Americas all the time and had occurred in Europe and elsewhere as well.  

The more advanced people won.  Surprise, surprise.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 28, 2022, 11:16:22 AM
Medina's new title is going to be "Smartest Guy in the Room".
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 11:22:20 AM
Humans are aggressive take when they are able.  I don't see a reason to run down Columbus, nor hail him as a hero either.  History is history, except when it isn't, and much of what we were taught back in the day isn't.

One difference that is important, I think, is wars fought between armies, and wars fought to eradicate or subdue civilians.  The Israelites, according to the Bible, took Canaan (and had it taken from them a few times) and eradicated those living there often as not.  The Mongols had an interesting approach and would lay waste to entire cities if they didn't surrender.  South Africa has some interesting history.  Even in the US before colonization, whole peoples rose and disappeared over time, replaced by others.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 11:26:50 AM
This is not so well known today.

William the Conqueror was an innovator in government. He built a strong centralized administration staffed with his Norman supporters. He was also not about to put up with any backtalk from the newly conquered English.

He subdued the south and east easily, but the north rose in rebellion. William's response was the ferocious "Harrying of the North" (1069-70), which devastated the land in a broad swath from York to Durham. The results of this burning and destruction left much of the area depopulated for centuries.

Hereward
Following on the heels of northern resistance the most famous English rebel of them all, Hereward the Wake, stirred up resistance to the Norman conquerors in East Anglia from a base at Ely, deep in the fenland. Eventually Hereward, too, was subdued, perhaps bought off, and the land was William's to hold.
Early Castles
One of the ways he ensured that he held it was to build castles everywhere. These were often hurried affairs in a continental "motte and bailey" design, usually in wood, only later replaced with stone. Most were built with forced local labour on land confiscated from English rebels. The castles were given to Norman barons to hold for the king.
In theory, every inch of English land belonged to the Crown and William's vassals had to swear fealty directly to the Crown. Contrast this with the earlier Saxon practice where each man swore allegiance to the person of his lord (click here to review (https://www.britainexpress.com/History/anglo-saxon_life-kinship_and_lordship.htm)). Now William was making loyalty to the nation, in the form of the Crown, supersede loyalty to the individual person of a lord.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on October 28, 2022, 01:21:34 PM
TBH the whole pre-Germany Prussia, Holy Roman Empire, and all of that really confuses me, and I suspect that it's not something you can understand without a lot of due diligence and studies.  That was a great breakdown.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 01:39:34 PM
TBH the whole pre-Germany Prussia, Holy Roman Empire, and all of that really confuses me, and I suspect that it's not something you can understand without a lot of due diligence and studies.  That was a great breakdown.
It really is a confusing mess involving not only the ethnically German people in the area but also Swede's, Dane's, Lithuanians, Poles, etc.

Eventually it crystallized into essentially "two germanys" being the Hohenzolleren ruled Prussians in the North and the Hapsburg ruled Austrians in the South. As nationalism grew (not only in Germany but across Europe) a lot of Germans wanted a united "One Germany" but obviously this was problematic because both the Hohenzollerens and the Hapsburgs saw themselves as the logical and rightful future rulers.

The Hapsburg claim was based mostly on history. They had dominated the old Holy Roman Empire for Centuries.
The Hohenzolleren claim was more recent but they had the stronger economy and military by the later half of the 19th Century.

Then there was the religious divide. Other European nations had Jewish minorities and either Protestant, Roman Catholic, or Eastern Orthodox majorities with one or both of the other two in the minority but in each of the other European nations there was a clear and dominant majority. England was almost all Protestant with only a few jews and Catholics. Russia was almost all Eastern Orthodox with only a few Jewish, Protestants, and Catholics. Same for France, Spain, and Italy with their substantial Catholic majorities.

Germany was different. The Catholic/Protestant divide was close to even with a few Jews in the mix. This was probably mostly responsible for the lack of an eventual unification.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 01:39:51 PM
Medina's new title is going to be "Smartest Guy in the Room".
LoL, thanks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 01:51:08 PM
The history of France is a bit of a mess also.  The French king was at war with the Burgudians for a while, as well as the English.  The Pope lived in Avignon over a century.  Alsace/Lorraine of course has switched, and today many place names there are  Teutonic.  Brittany is related to the term "Britain".  Normandy of course is where the old kings of England came from, and the "Nor" means "north" because it was settled by Danes etc.  Belgium has parts that are French speaking and parts where that is eschewed and they speak Flemish.  My notion before I got into reading all this was these countries had been sort of like they are for centuries.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 28, 2022, 01:54:14 PM
  • Most of the rest of the European peoples had already formed nation states years earlier.  England, France, and Russia had existed for centuries by the time Wilhelm I was crowned Emperor of Germany.  Thus, those other nations had already had the opportunity to lay claim to border areas and to acquire foreign colonies while Germany had not. 
  • The German people still were not actually united anywhere near to the degree that the English, French, and Russians were.  Austria was still independent of Germany as part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and there were also a lot of ethnically German people living in other parts of the Austro-Hungarian Empire outside of Austria and in areas even beyond the Austro-Hungarian Empire. 
Prolly why half the Tuetonic types Germans,Swiss,Austrians,Danes,Dutch up and moved here.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 02:08:09 PM
19th century Europe was not a pleasant place for the lower classes, and most folks were just that.  It is amazing to me how so many uprooted from family, tradition, launguage, and came here.

I was reading about how the Chinese came over in numbers to build the RR, though quite a few were already here because of gold etc.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 28, 2022, 02:18:18 PM
Tough Mofo's - they had to be
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 02:26:39 PM
Yeah, I really marvel at what folks managed back in the day, and of course many of them didn't make it.

My Dad was born in a house with no electricity, no running water, candles, dirt roads, horse drawn everything pretty much.  Maybe there were a few tractors around, maybe.

His early life was hardly different from 1,000 AD.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 28, 2022, 03:16:17 PM
Sort of the same here but at least they had some power equipment.Back in the day my dad started out shoveling coal in the resident furnace bins in the cold months and ICe in in the warm months,drove taxi,worked in a meat house.Worked with tinners for a while making duct work/flashing also poured cement for a while.Tried roofing but those old 3 stories were a little too high and the slate roofs helped his decision.No wonder he drank a lot of Beer
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 03:20:54 PM
My Dad's Mom moved them to Demorest at some point because she wanted her kids to go to college, and three of four did.  My own mom called her the most impressive woman she'd ever met.  They were dirt poor, literally, and she saw education as a way up and out.  My Dad had a white collar job with the State after being a teacher and principal for a few years.  Of course the war had a large impact on everything, my Dad had a Purple Heart from when his B-24 went down in the Pacific.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 03:24:04 PM
19th century Europe was not a pleasant place for the lower classes, and most folks were just that.  It is amazing to me how so many uprooted from family, tradition, launguage, and came here.

I was reading about how the Chinese came over in numbers to build the RR, though quite a few were already here because of gold etc.
This has always amazed me too. Until recently, immigration meant leaving everything and everyone you had ever known and knowing that you would never see and only rarely if ever hear from them ever again.

My ancestors mostly came over from the British Isles before the Revolution. Back then it was a dangerous journey of many weeks across the Atlantic. Imagine making that journey knowing you wouldn't be able to go back even for your parents' funerals or ever see your parents, siblings, cousins or other relatives again.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 03:25:31 PM
My Dad's Mom moved them to Demorest at some point because she wanted her kids to go to college, and three of four did.  My own mom called her the most impressive woman she'd ever met.  They were dirt poor, literally, and she saw education as a way up and out.  My Dad had a white collar job with the State after being a teacher and principal for a few years.  Of course the war had a large impact on everything, my Dad had a Purple Heart from when his B-24 went down in the Pacific.
Do you mind sharing when/where in the Pacific?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 03:34:01 PM
He was a radar operator on a B-24, 858th Squadron, "The Snoopers".  They flew off Guadalcanal initially, I think the doomed flight was off New Georgia.  I have the official report somewhere of the crash, my Dad said it was wrong for various reasons.  Three men survived out of ten.  My Dad thinks the radar dome hit the water and broke the plane open and he floated out, he was unconscious and injured.  The copilot went through the windshield and the flight engineer apparently followed him and kept them afloat.  They were picked up by a US destroyer the next morning.  I have this book.

(https://i.imgur.com/W6Qjcgd.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 03:41:09 PM
This was the crew:

(https://i.imgur.com/dR7zY9d.png)

There is a shirt hanging off the plane because that is a radar antenna and could not be photographed.  My Dad is first row right.  I don't think this is the plane that crashed.  They had a lot of mechanical issues with the turbosuperchargers.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 04:25:39 PM
Wow, thank you for sharing. 

I'm down to only knowing one WWII vet. When I was a kid I knew a slew of them but they're dying off and only a few remain.

The funny thing is that the one I know that is still alive is neither a relatively young WWII guy nor is he in bad health.

Side note, I knew very well a guy who graduated HS in 1945 and called himself a WWII Veteran in name only. By the time he finished HS Hitler was dead and the war in Europe was over. He joined the Navy because, in his telling, they were the ones taking the war to the Japanese and he wanted to be involved. He was still stateside, learning to be a tailgunner in an Avenger (Carrier based Torpode Bomber) when the A-Bombs were dropped and Japan surrendered. He ended up deploying as part of the first air wing assigned to the brand new USS Midway. He died a few years ago.

Back to the guy still alive. He was supposed to graduate HS in June, 1942 but after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor* he managed an early graduation and joined the Navy in early 1942. He was a crewman on blimps flying out of South America looking for U-boats. Postwar he became a fighter pilot and ultimate served in three branches of the military:

So anyway, this guy is now 98 years old. I see him every Thursday for lunch (Kiwanis Club). He drives himself and walks in on his own, no help, no walker, no wheelchair. It gets better. He only gave up his private pilot license a few years ago because no insurance company would insure a 90+ year old pilot. It gets better. I mentioned that he drives himself to our weekly meetings. In the summers up until two years ago he rode his Honda Shadow to our meetings every week. Seriously, 95 year old guy cruising into our meeting on a motorcycle. 


Dude is 98, if you met him tomorrow you'd probably guess 72 and think that he might have served in Vietnam but that he was a toddler during Korea and born after WWII.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 04:27:25 PM
*yes, I know who bombed Pearl Harbor, I just never pass up an opportunity to share this:

https://youtu.be/V8lT1o0sDwI
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 04:31:52 PM
I am in possession of two Purple Hearts, and of course I was never in the military.  One was my Dad's, one my son's.  Some of you likely have seen a documentary about my son's unit.  I remain in contact with many of those Marines today.  

Watch Combat Diary The Marines of Lima Company. - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=combat+diary+lima+company&qpvt=combat+diary+lima+company&view=detail&mid=66825BA0A0FD8532960F66825BA0A0FD8532960F&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcombat%2Bdiary%2Blima%2Bcompany%26qpvt%3Dcombat%2Bdiary%2Blima%2Bcompany%26FORM%3DVDRE)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on October 28, 2022, 06:03:52 PM
As always, I'm so sorry for your loss, and I thank your son for his service and your family for it sacrifice.

Your dad too, of course, although I don't know his story.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 28, 2022, 06:16:52 PM
My Dad's Mom moved them to Demorest at some point because she wanted her kids to go to college, and three of four did.  My own mom called her the most impressive woman she'd ever met.  They were dirt poor, literally, and she saw education as a way up and out.  My Dad had a white collar job with the State after being a teacher and principal for a few years.  Of course the war had a large impact on everything, my Dad had a Purple Heart from when his B-24 went down in the Pacific.
I forgot if they got shot down or a mechanical problem.Very fortunate to be found in such a vast area w/o GPS or other modern honing devices
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 28, 2022, 06:44:45 PM
He was a radar operator on a B-24, 858th Squadron, "The Snoopers".  They flew off Guadalcanal initially, I think the doomed flight was off New Georgia.  I have the official report somewhere of the crash, my Dad said it was wrong for various reasons.  Three men survived out of ten.  My Dad thinks the radar dome hit the water and broke the plane open and he floated out, he was unconscious and injured.  The copilot went through the windshield and the flight engineer apparently followed him and kept them afloat.  They were picked up by a US destroyer the next morning.  I have this book.
There is a guy on youtube named Indie neidel.If you hit on the Worl War Two ✔ under the screen you can back track the war chronologically week by week.It is absolutely how astounding how the Battle of  Guadalcanal was in all facets.Sea/Air/Land the IJF were fanatical.Seemingly every damn day there were casualties,Aerial combat,ships sunk by subs,subs sunk by mines. Snipers,bonzai charges,flame throwers,neither side giving in & taking no quarter.Naval patrols bumping into each other because of the thousands of islands that were both a blessing and a curse.And I'm not being overly patriotic saying that no other nation(Russia/GB/Germany) could have taken them on in all 3 phases

https://www.youtube.com/c/WorldWarTwo
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 08:42:15 PM
As always, I'm so sorry for your loss, and I thank your son for his service and your family for it sacrifice.

Your dad too, of course, although I don't know his story.
Agreed!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on October 28, 2022, 10:11:35 PM
As always, I'm so sorry for your loss, and I thank your son for his service and your family for it sacrifice.

Your dad too, of course, although I don't know his story.
I must’ve missed this over the years I’ve posted here. Likewise I’m sorry for your loss and thank your family for their sacrifice. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2022, 08:10:14 AM
By about 3,000 B.C., almost every weaving technique known today had been invented by the Peruvians.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2022, 08:53:10 AM
Early in WWII in the Pacific Theater the Japanese Zero was vastly superior to anything the USA had flying.As they had already been fighting in China for a while and we were coming out of the Depression and weren't spending/developing any war related hardware .Any way some Naval Airman invented "the Weave" where they'd criss-cross each other and shoot any Zeros trailing the other pilot. This formation had the guys name but I don't recall it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2022, 08:54:15 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Suez Canal Crisis Begins (1956)
After Britain and the US withdrew their financial pledges to help Egypt build the Aswan High Dam, Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal, angering Britain and France, which had direct financial stakes in the canal. A joint invasion of Egypt ensued, but UN intervention led to an armistice in November. The canal, blocked for months due to damage, reopened in 1957.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2022, 09:15:38 AM
John Thach.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2022, 09:32:42 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iS47j8y.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2022, 10:04:26 AM
This was the crew:

(https://i.imgur.com/dR7zY9d.png)

There is a shirt hanging off the plane because that is a radar antenna and could not be photographed.  My Dad is first row right.  I don't think this is the plane that crashed.  They had a lot of mechanical issues with the turbosuperchargers.


Notice how trim people were back then,no love handles or double chins,prolly from fighting and working their arses off
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2022, 10:18:15 AM
They also were young, my Dad was oldest of that group.  This is from 1943-44, so he was 26-27.  And of course the chow probably was somewhat lacking, and they all smoked pretty heavily.

My Dad went to a pipe in about 1960 and then quit a few years later.  He passed on at 93, as did my Mom.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2022, 10:36:02 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2vjtulP.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2022, 11:54:00 AM
That's impressive
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 29, 2022, 12:37:42 PM
Early in WWII in the Pacific Theater the Japanese Zero was vastly superior to anything the USA had flying.As they had already been fighting in China for a while and we were coming out of the Depression and weren't spending/developing any war related hardware .Any way some Naval Airman invented "the Weave" where they'd criss-cross each other and shoot any Zeros trailing the other pilot. This formation had the guys name but I don't recall it
Thatch
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 29, 2022, 12:38:26 PM
John Thach.
Sorry, answered before I checked. You already had it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 29, 2022, 12:54:20 PM
Early in WWII in the Pacific Theater the Japanese Zero was vastly superior to anything the USA had flying.As they had already been fighting in China for a while and we were coming out of the Depression and weren't spending/developing any war related hardware .Any way some Naval Airman invented "the Weave" where they'd criss-cross each other and shoot any Zeros trailing the other pilot. This formation had the guys name but I don't recall it
The Zero was superior at some things but it is an overstatement to say that it was "vastly superior".

The Zero was designed to maximize maneuverability and range so it was very good at those things but there were tradeoffs. It was not armored anywhere near to degree that American fighters were. Also, the lightweight construction resulted in a flimsy plane that couldn't match American fighters in a dive.

Early in the war some American pilots tried to dogfight with Zeros and those American pilots were mostly shot down because the Zero was a vastly superior dogfighter.

Later, American Pilots learned to use their fighters' relative superiorities to their advantage. P38 pilots, for example, learned that while trying to dogfight with a Zero was nearly suicidal, their machines were much faster and it didn't take much to knock down a Zero so the tactic they learned was to keep the throttle wide open and try to hit Zeros during high speed passes.

Thatch's weave was another highly successful tactic. It drew a trailing Zero through the guns gunsites of the wingman.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 29, 2022, 01:12:48 PM
A great example of design trade-offs is self-sealing tanks. Most people know that the Zero didn't have them, a lot of people don't know why.

For years I just assumed that the Japanese lacked either the technology or the raw materials to make self-sealing tanks. Nope. They knew how and they had the raw materials. 

The Japanese chose not to use self-sealing tanks because the rubber bladder that created a self-sealing tank took up space and thus reduced fuel capacity which in turn reduced range. The Japanese chose to prioritize range over survivability. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2022, 08:02:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/GlXAx5J.png)

1675, Leibniz
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2022, 08:55:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Rumble in the Jungle (1974)
The "Rumble in the Jungle" pitted boxer Muhammad Ali against heavyweight champion George Foreman in Zaire—now the Democratic Republic of the Congo. The match is remembered for Ali's incredible performance in regaining the heavyweight title. Surrounded by spellbound fans, he used a strategy later dubbed the "rope-a-dope" to tire Foreman before winning in the eighth round. This fight was Don King's first major venture as a professional boxing promoter.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2022, 09:41:19 AM
The Convair X-6 was a proposed experimental aircraft project to develop and evaluate a nuclear-powered jet aircraft. The project was to use a Convair B-36 bomber as a testbed aircraft, and though one NB-36H was modified during the early stages of the project, the program was canceled before the actual X-6 and its nuclear reactor engines were completed. The X-6 was part of a larger series of programs, costing US$7 billion in all, that ran from 1946 through 1961. Because such an aircraft's range would not have been limited by liquid jet fuel, it was theorized that nuclear-powered strategic bombers would be able to stay airborne for weeks at a time

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2022, 09:32:00 AM
Halloween is a holiday celebrated each year on October 31, and Halloween 2021 will occur on Sunday, October 31. The tradition originated with the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain, when people would light bonfires and wear costumes to ward off ghosts.


The first Jack O’Lanterns were actually made from turnips.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2022, 09:44:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Britain Is Won (1940)
The Battle of Britain was the first major German failure in World War II. The Royal Air Force (RAF), outgunned and outmanned, nevertheless defeated the German Luftwaffe and thwarted Hitler's plan for an amphibious invasion, which he had hoped would end the war quickly. The event was not only a testament to the courage of British pilots, but it also marked the first time a major battle was fought entirely in the air and featured the first use of radar in battle.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2022, 10:18:03 AM
A great example of design trade-offs is self-sealing tanks. Most people know that the Zero didn't have them, a lot of people don't know why.
Fire supression systems aboard the Yorktown and other new vessels kept them from getting sunk.When the japanese bombed it a 2nd time they thought it was another ship as they didn't think anything could take that pounding.It still wasn't sunk after the 2nd bombing and was finally sent to the bottom by a subs torpedo
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2022, 10:21:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

The Battle of Britain Is Won (1940)
The Battle of Britain was the first major German failure in World War II. The Royal Air Force (RAF), outgunned and outmanned, nevertheless defeated the German Luftwaffe and thwarted Hitler's plan for an amphibious invasion, which he had hoped would end the war quickly. The event was not only a testament to the courage of British pilots, but it also marked the first time a major battle was fought entirely in the air and featured the first use of radar in battle.
Goring was an idiot.The Luftwaffe was getting the upper hand then he started directing bombing of civilian targets.Had the Gerries stuck to radar installations it could have been game - set - match
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 10:45:57 AM
I think Hitler couldn't believe GB would hold out.  He was offering relatively generous terms, he didn't want to invade GB, and waited way too late to even start planning.  Realistically, most leaders of GB at the time would have caved and taken the terms.  One can imagine what would have ensued, the Wehrmacht would have been able to push most of its force East for the attack on the SU and likely had some level of trade now with GB and perhaps even us.  

I see it as perhaps the central key to the war's outcome, Churchill would not cave.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 31, 2022, 10:56:16 AM
Fire supression systems aboard the Yorktown and other new vessels kept them from getting sunk.When the japanese bombed it a 2nd time they thought it was another ship as they didn't think anything could take that pounding.It still wasn't sunk after the 2nd bombing and was finally sent to the bottom by a subs torpedo
This is a good point. The Japanese damage control was pathetic compared to the US. Compare the pounding that Yorktown took before sinking to the few hits each that doomed the four Japanese CV's lost off Midway.

Ultimately, as I've studied the war in the Pacific I've come to the conclusion that what happened at Midway wasn't a Miracle, it was simply the result of conditions. Japanese damage control was atrocious and that was bound to bite them eventually. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 11:12:09 AM
US carriers would flush their fuel lines with nitrogen before battle, the Japanese didn't.  Another factor later on is some Japanese ships were running on raw petroleum unrefined, which would include a lot of very volatile light compounds prone to explosions.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2022, 06:34:27 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Arecibo Observatory Opens (1963)
Located near Arecibo, Puerto Rico, the Arecibo Observatory is the site of the world's largest single-aperture telescope. The telescope dish, built into a natural limestone bowl, measures an astonishing 1,000 feet (305 m) in diameter. It is used in radar studies of comets and asteroids, as well as in radio astronomy, to detect and analyze radio waves from space.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2022, 08:15:38 AM
11/02/1948

(https://i.imgur.com/lMVrfov.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2022, 08:39:19 AM
fake news
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 09:00:29 AM
California gold panners circa 1860:

(https://i.imgur.com/xTaagqz.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 09:07:20 AM
About an hour north of me is a small town called Dahlonega which was the site of the first gold rush in the US.  A US Mint was established there.  The town was basically drying up when they capitalized on the gold heritage and revived the downtown square, which has the usual antique shops, restaurants, etc.  The old courthouse is now the gold museum and pretty interesting.  The GA Capitol dome if coated with 43 ounces of gold from north GA.

How the dome got its gold – SaportaReport (https://saportareport.com/dome-got-gold/archived-columnists/jamils-georgia/nge/)


(https://i.imgur.com/L5pUca5.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 02, 2022, 10:52:04 AM
John Thach.
He also devised what was called "The Big Blue Blanket" toward the end of the war.

This was a response to the threat posed by the Kamikaze attacks.

Thatch's Big Blue Blanket got it's name from the blue painted Hellcats and Corsairs that were responsible for defending the fleet.

Thatch's plan involved positioning Destroyers (DD's) and Destroyer Escorts (DE's) up to 50 miles or more out from the Carriers (CV's). These late-war, radar-equipped DD's and DE's would then report contacts back to Fighter Direction officers who vectored Hellcats and Corsairs out to destroy enemy planes before they got anywhere near the high-value Carriers, Battleships, and Cruisers.

Thatch's design also substantially increased the number of fighters used for Combat Air Patrol (CAP) and specified that when approaching land targets, US fighters were to be stationed over known airfields to prevent enemy planes from even getting airborne.

This did put the DD's and DE's at considerable risk of course but they were protected to the extent possible by the CAP. Also, they were smaller, faster, and more maneuverable than large capital ships so they were harder for enemies to hit. Finally, even if they were hit, from the perspective of the USN it was obviously preferable to have a cheap, easily replaced, and small-crew DD or DE sunk or damaged than to lose use of a Carrier.

Late in the war, to get to an American Carrier a Kamikaze had to get past:

The Kamikazes were undoubtedly horrifying but the vast majority were shot down miles away from the core of the US fleet before even seeing let alone hitting any large American ships.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 10:55:27 AM
Yup, the Small Boys paid a heavy price because the poorly trained Japanese pilots would think they were capital ships and attack them, and of course they were lightly armored at best.  A DE (Destroyer Escort) or Corvette in Brit parlance was an underpowered smaller destroyer mostly intended for escort duty of convoys.

That 5" 38 caliber dual purpose mount was a very useful thing.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 02, 2022, 11:10:58 AM
Yup, the Small Boys paid a heavy price because the poorly trained Japanese pilots would think they were capital ships and attack them, and of course they were lightly armored at best.  A DE (Destroyer Escort) or Corvette in Brit parlance was an underpowered smaller destroyer mostly intended for escort duty of convoys.

That 5" 38 caliber dual purpose mount was a very useful thing.
Not too far from you at Patriots Point SC where the USS Yorktown is on display they also have the USS Laffey. Laffey suffered a horrendous battle with attacking Kamikazes off Okinawa and somehow survived. If you haven't been, I highly recommend visiting. 

Tip for visiting Patriots Point / Charleston. My wife and I stayed via AirBnB on a boat docked at Charleston Harbor Resort and Marina. It was actually cheaper than a room in the resort AND we had resort privileges anyway AND the boat we stayed on was only a short walk down the dock from the Yorktown and Laffey. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 11:16:15 AM
I've been there a long while back.  I am trying not to drag my wife to too many historical sites these days.  I've overdone it a bit.

We're signed up to visit Petra and Luxor etc. in Feb/Mar. though, she wants to visit Jerusalem but there is as yet not offering.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 02, 2022, 11:19:53 AM
From wiki (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Laffey_(DD-724)) on the Kamikaze attack that Laffey survived:

Laffey survived despite being badly damaged by four bombs, six kamikaze crashes, and strafing fire that killed 32 and wounded 71. Assistant communications officer Lieutenant Frank Manson asked Captain Becton if he thought they'd have to abandon ship, to which he snapped, "No! I'll never abandon ship as long as a single gun will fire." Becton did not hear a nearby lookout softly say, "And if I can find one man to fire it."[ (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Laffey_(DD-724)#cite_note-6)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2022, 12:46:35 PM
Much of what Westerners know about Field Marshal Mikhail Illarionovich Golenischev-Kutuzov derives from Leo Tolstoy, who depicted the “scarred and puffy” commander-in-chief of the Russian armies during Napoleon’s retreat from Moscow as pensive, overweight and morose. The real Kutuzov, as the eminent Napoleonic Wars scholar Alexander Mikaberidze reveals, was certainly pensive, if only because he was a profound military thinker and strategist; undoubtedly overweight and wheezy by the time he took up overall command aged 65; but far from morose, lavishing his affection on five beloved daughters, and even a 14-year-old mistress.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/the-fat-elderly-one-eyed-general-who-outwitted-napoleon-and-was-immortalised-in-war-and-peace/ar-AA13EtjT?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=f59d200bf09a44519d3977d24e6880b5 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/the-fat-elderly-one-eyed-general-who-outwitted-napoleon-and-was-immortalised-in-war-and-peace/ar-AA13EtjT?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=f59d200bf09a44519d3977d24e6880b5)

Kutuzov was Russia’s sixth most senior general when Napoleon crossed the River Niemen into the Russian empire on June 24 1812. An aristocrat who had won a war and signed a peace with the Ottomans, he had been a war hero ever since he had survived being shot in the head, not once but twice (blinding him in one eye). This superb biography portrays Kutuzov as “charming, intelligent, calculating, artful” – but, crucially, not the author of the scorched earth retreat-and-wait strategy that was to rout Napoleon’s 600,000-strong army.

That accolade belonged to Russia’s Scottish- and German-born minister of war General Barclay de Tolly, who recognized that the Russian army of a quarter of a million men was in constant danger of being out-manoeuvred and enveloped by the French Grande Armée, and instead it should refuse battle and withdraw eastwards into the endless territory of Russia, drawing Napoleon further and further into Russia until lines of communication were overextended and winter descended.

This pragmatic but unheroic strategy so offended Russian sensibilities that Tolly finally had to be sacked by Tsar Alexander I and a native Russian, Kutuzov, promoted, despite the Tsar’s dislike of him. “The public wanted his appointment, so I appointed him,” the Tsar told an aide de camp. “As for myself, I wash my hands of it all.”


Although Kutuzov did fight the Battle of Borodino on September 7 1812 – the biggest single-day bloodbath in world history until the Great War – he was unable to prevent the Napoleonic juggernaut reaching Moscow. Thereafter, his cautious strategy, and the Tsar’s resolute refusal to enter into negotiations with Napoleon, ensured that the Russian army could shepherd the French out of Russia once the blizzards descended, attacking hard when opportunities presented themselves. The Grande Armée recrossed the Niemen in December with only 93,000 survivors. Although Kutuzov died in April 1813, he had laid the groundwork for the Russian entry into Paris the following year.

Kutuzov is hero-worshipped by Russians today, who at the millennium voted him the greatest Russian of the 19th century. Mikaberidze, who has worked extensively in the Russian, French and Lithuanian archives for this book, rightly considers him underappreciated in the West, despite Kutuzov’s doing more to break Napoleon even than the Duke of Wellington, Field Marshal Blücher of Prussia or the Austrian commander Karl von Schwarzenberg.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 03, 2022, 05:01:46 PM
Understanding John Thatch's "Big Blue Blanket":

Even with radar late in the war a Carrier likely wouldn't spot an approaching enemy until that intruder reached say 50mi out from the fleet.  This Kamikaze intending to destroy your carrier is likely travelling at up to 300mph which means it will cover that 50mi in roughly 10 minutes.  A Hellcat or Corsair in the hanger at this point is utterly worthless.  That plane couldn't get fueled, armed, up to the flight deck, warmed up, and off the carrier before the Kamikaze arrived.  

Even if the Hellcat or Corsair was fully armed, fully fueled, and warmed up on the flight deck, it takes 8-10 minutes for a Corsair to climb to 20,000' depending on the load-out.  Since you'd want maximum fuel and ammunition you are probably closer to the 10 minute mark which means you'd get to 20,000 at about the same time the Kamikaze crashed into your ship.  

Ok, so what if the Corsair or Hellcat was already flying 20,000' over the carrier when the intruder was identified?  Well top speed for a Hellcat or Corsair is around 400mph so if it was immediately given the correct compass heading and altitude, it could head toward the intruder at a closing speed of roughly 700mph.  That will get you to the Kamikaze in about four and a half minutes at roughly 25-30 mi from the carrier.  In theory you could shoot the intruder down head-on but this is an INCREDIBLY difficult shot.  The closing speed is 700 mph.  
700*5,280 = 3,696,000 feet per hour
3,696,000/60 = 61,600 feet per minute
61,600/60 = 1,027 feet per second.  

The M2 Browning .50 cal machine guns in the Corsairs and Hellcats have an effective range of about 6,000' so you have roughly six seconds from the time the intruder is in range until you crash into them.  You can't fire for the full six seconds because you have to pull up or else you'll crash into them and you have zero chance of surviving a 700mph collision at 20,000' so you have AT MOST approximately five seconds of firing time.  That would be plenty if you were firing at some stationary target but you aren't, everything is moving.  You and they are moving at a combined 1,027 feet per second and remember that this isn't a ground or sea based target that moves in two dimensions, this is an airborne target that moves in three dimensions as do you.  

Actually hitting an approaching Kamikaze with a head-on shot in this situation would be miraculous.  

Alternatively, you could loop around behind the intruder and approach them from astern but that turn takes time.  You have to slow your aircraft down enough to make the turn and you have to line it up right and then once you get behind them you have to catch up to within no more than 6,000' before you can start firing effectively.  Firing earlier may sound like a good idea but it isn't.  Your .50 cal machine guns fire 450-600 rounds per minute and you only carry 400 rounds per gun so you have less than 60 seconds of firing time.  Firing "prayer" shots from from the 24,000' maximum range of the gun accomplishes nothing but to expend your ammunition while you are too far away such that when you do get close you will not have any left.  

By the time you get turned around and lined up behind the intruder you are probably no more than 20 mi from the Carrier and that is if everything went right.  They are still closing on the Carrier at 300 mph (5 mi/minute) so you have AT MOST four minutes to shoot them down and the last minute or more of that you'll be chasing them into your own ships' AA fire which is just as effective at shooting down Hellcats and Corsairs as it is at shooting down Zeros so you'll be at SUBSTANTIAL risk of getting downed by "friendly fire" if you don't splash the intruder before you get close.  

Realistically you only get one or maybe two passes at the intruder.  You'll be trained to keep your own throttle to the firewall in order to avoid being shot down by any lurking enemy fighters so slowing down to their 300 mph speed to get more shots simply isn't an option.  Your closing speed will be at least 100 mph or about 150' per second so you'll have something like 40 seconds overall but you probably don't want to open fire until you are closer and you have to pull up to avoid crashing into the intruder so this still isn't easy.  Then, if you miss, you have to either dive or climb away, loop around, and try again with very limited ammunition.  

Corsairs and Hellcats are also armed with a couple of 20mm cannons but those have an even higher rate of fire and less ammunition than the .50cal guns so they generally aren't engaged until you are pretty sure you are on target.  

Placing DD's and DE's 50 miles from the Carriers and protective Combat Air Patrol (CAP) fighters at long range as well moved all these calculations an extra 50 miles away from the Carriers which gave the fighters more time to get their shots lined up which saved a lot of lives on the carriers but as @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) pointed out, the DD's and DE's sometimes paid a VERY high price for that.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 03, 2022, 09:05:54 PM
Did you do all of that finding/figuring? If so impressive
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 09:30:54 AM
November 4, 1980.

Ronald Reagan elected POTUS.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 04, 2022, 09:32:38 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Sack of Antwerp (1576)
In the mid-16th century, Antwerp, Belgium, was Europe's chief commercial and financial center. Actively involved in trade with Spain, Portugal, the Americas, and the East, Antwerp's ports received spices, gold, and other luxury goods. The city was also home to a flourishing diamond industry. However, Antwerp's fortunes changed in 1576 when Spanish troops sacked the city and killed about 6,000 of its inhabitants in what became known as the "Spanish fury."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 09:36:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

The Sack of Antwerp (1576)
However, Antwerp's fortunes changed in 1576 when Spanish troops sacked the city raped and killed about 6,000 of its inhabitants in what became known as the "Spanish Fly."
FIFY
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 10:24:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XoCiSgX.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 10:31:38 AM
Think you could get today's tenderfoots to try that?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 10:37:57 AM
It was 660 feet thick at its base, thought to be over built by nearly half.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 10:41:39 AM
Things keep going the way they are it won't be needed,hopefully that turns around
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 10:44:32 AM
Yeah, we had a years long drought here a few years back, much gnashing of teeth about water.  Then the Heaven's opened and the reservoirs filled back up and then some.  I assume we'll see a drought again in a few years.  And the population of course continues to grow in this area.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 12:16:42 PM
Great Lakes aren't going anywhere-at least for a while.Unless a cataclysmic earth quake re-routes everything - which would piss Badgerfan off
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 12:35:22 PM
We could build dams
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2022, 01:31:55 PM
Yep, build dams, rebuild cities below sea level, overpopulate areas in the desert.....all great ideas. 
Anything but live in accordance with nature. 
That's fer suckers!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 03:14:55 PM
Yep, build dams, rebuild cities below sea level, overpopulate areas in the desert.....all great ideas. 
Anything but live in accordance with nature. 
That's fer suckers!
You trying to get me started?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2022, 10:48:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/aH5IulQ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 05, 2022, 10:56:29 AM
Should be a longer line than that. ;D

Was that one of towns along the Mississippi?From north to south back in day it wasn't uncommon.Still do but they call it something else to skirt the rules
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 05, 2022, 11:46:57 AM
Did you do all of that finding/figuring? If so impressive
I've read it all elsewhere but couldn't put my hands on it so yeah, I did the calculations. 
Thanks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Hawkinole on November 06, 2022, 01:51:51 AM
On this date (November 6) in 1860 Abraham Lincoln is elected 16th president of the United States, with 39.8% of the vote defeating John Breckenridge, John Bell, and Stephen Douglas. Douglas was 2nd with 29.5% of the popular vote.

Lincoln was 2nd at the 1st ballot of the Republican party convention, which required 3 ballots before he was party nominee.

Lincoln garnered 180 out of 303 electoral votes to win in 1860.

In 1864 at the Republican nominating convention Lincoln garnered 480 votes, and U.S. Grant 22, on the 1st ballot, and then on the 2nd ballot it was Lincoln unanimously.

In 1864 Lincoln garnered 55% of the popular vote vs. George McClellan with 45%, and the Electoral College was 212 - 21. I would guess there were not as many states in 1864, as in 1860.

Just think that in the 5-months after the 1864 election in which 45% voted against Lincoln events would move Lincoln to become our country's most beloved president, and yet 60.2% of the voters in 1860 supported another candidate, and 45% in 1864 supported another candidate, and that 45% doesn't include the nonvoters in the secessionist states.

Abraham Lincoln who led such a difficult life in the presidency was such an iconic president.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 08, 2022, 09:16:39 AM
Yale was named after Elihu Yale (1649-1721), a governor of the British East India Company who donated a crate of goods to the fledgling school.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 08, 2022, 09:17:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Wilhelm Röntgen Discovers X-Rays (1895)
In 1895, Röntgen, a German physicist, discovered rays that did not exhibit properties such as reflection or refraction. Because of their mysterious nature, he called them X-rays. His discovery, which gave medicine a critical view inside the body and allowed bones to be photographed, remains a valuable diagnostic tool. Röntgen's breakthrough earned him the first Nobel Prize for Physics in 1901. One of the first X-ray photographs he took was of his wife's hand.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 08, 2022, 09:19:41 AM
Wonder how long his wife lived
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2022, 09:19:33 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Hermann Weyl (1885)
A contemporary and onetime colleague of Albert Einstein, Hermann Weyl was a German mathematician whose work on the topics of space, time, matter, philosophy, and symmetry, to name a few, has earned him consideration as one of the most influential 20th-century mathematicians. His research advanced not only the field of mathematics but of theoretical physics as well.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2022, 09:20:03 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Napoleon Bonaparte Leads the Coup of 18 Brumaire (1799)
The Coup of 18 Brumaire, widely considered the effective end of the French Revolution, made way for the despotism of Napoleon. Planned by French statesmen Emmanuel Sieyès and Charles Maurice de Talleyrand, the coup allowed Napoleon to overthrow the weakened government of the Directory and replace it with the Consulate. The Consulate's executive branch consisted of three consuls, but Napoleon—as first consul—wielded all real power and soon became emperor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2022, 09:24:03 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Martin Luther (1483)
The teachings of Luther, a German theologian, widely disseminated by the then-novel printing press, sparked the Protestant Reformation. Luther denied the authority of the priesthood to mediate between the individual and God and rejected the sacraments except as aids to faith. His works were condemned by the pope and banned by the Holy Roman Emperor, but the Reformation soon swept across Europe, setting the stage for a century of religious war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 10, 2022, 10:06:37 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY:

Martin Luther (1483)
The teachings of Luther, a German theologian, widely disseminated by the then-novel printing press, sparked the Protestant Reformation. Luther denied the authority of the priesthood to mediate between the individual and God and rejected the sacraments except as aids to faith. His works were condemned by the pope and banned by the Holy Roman Emperor, but the Reformation soon swept across Europe, setting the stage for a century of religious war.
One irony is that the two men most responsible for the Protestant Reformation (Henry VIII and Martin Luther) both thought of themselves as Catholics who were merely trying to correct the path of a Church that they saw as flawed, not trying to establish completely new churches. In spite of that, Henry's Church of England (Anglican Church or Episcopal Church in the US) and Martin's Luthern Church persist to this day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 10, 2022, 10:10:50 AM
80 years ago today Operation Torch was in full swing.

Operation Torch was the Allied (US/British) Operation to capture Western North Africa. The troops landed were all Americans because there was significant ill will between the French and British stemming from Britain's attacks on the French fleet. 

It was thought/hoped that the Vichy French forces defending Casablanca and the rest of Morocco would be more likely to switch over to the Allied side if they were confronted with US rather than British invaders.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 10, 2022, 10:31:34 AM
At ten minutes after seven tonight (19:10 CST) it will have been 47 years since the last radio transmission was received from the Edmund Fitzgerald. 

Captain Jesse Cooper of the Arthur M. Anderson was 10 mi behind the Fitz and was assisting with navigation because Fitz' radar had been knocked out. 

At the conclusion of a radio conversation mostly about navigational issues, Captain Cooper on Anderson asked Captain Ernest McSorley aboard the Edmund Fitzgerald how he was making out with his problems. McSorley replied "We are holding our own."

Those were the last words heard from the Edmund Fitzgerald and shortly thereafter the ship disappeared from Anderson's radar. Cooper then radioed officials and said "I think we've lost the Fitz". 

Cooper was right. Fitzgerald and her 29 man crew were at the bottom of Lake Superior. 

Most if the crewmen were from Wisconsin and Ohio so . . .
We need the Badgers and Buckeyes to play on Saturday, November 8, 2025 and have a 50 year commemorative halftime show.

https://youtu.be/3VXY6tuZ5eU

https://youtu.be/hgI8bta-7aw

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 10, 2022, 01:27:34 PM
Today's birthday is the United States Marine Corps. That's not weird history (well, the founding is), but it's important. So there.

Happy birthday, Marines.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2022, 01:35:25 PM
247 years, correct?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 10, 2022, 01:42:03 PM
247 years, correct?
Yep, November 10, 1775.

The Country had a Marine Corps before they were a country.

I learned that young, dad was a Marine.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 10, 2022, 01:42:51 PM
Yup. Five months younger than the Army, but much better at celebrating its birthday. November 2025 will no doubt be a gas for the Devil Dogs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2022, 09:59:38 PM
When Surrender Was Worse Than Death: 8 Realities about Life at Andersonville Prison During the Civil War

https://historycollection.com/american-pow-camps-death-camps-prisoners/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=HC7&utm_campaign=23851335530570727&utm_content=23851335529900727_23851335529030727 (https://historycollection.com/american-pow-camps-death-camps-prisoners/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=HC7&utm_campaign=23851335530570727&utm_content=23851335529900727_23851335529030727)

In the early months of the Civil War, soldiers of both sides who were unfortunate enough to be taken prisoner could look forward to a short captivity. Both armies, officered by men who had largely shared training and military tradition, practiced the 18th-century procedures of parole and exchange.

Prisoners were exchanged between the armies on a rank for rank basis – private for private, sergeant for sergeant, fifteen privates for one colonel, and so on – while officers were freely granted the freedom of the enemy camp (within limits) in exchange for their parole – a promise that they would not try to escape or act against the enemy until they were properly exchanged. It was not unusual of an evening to see captured Union officers playing cards or sharing whiskey with their Confederate counterparts.

This civility – the dying gasps of chivalrous behavior – did not last once Northern generals grasped the hard facts of the situation between North and South. Compared to the South, the North had vast resources of manpower, while lost Johnny Rebs could not be replaced. It cost the enemy food, clothing, shelter, and manpower to restrain prisoners, something the North could afford and the South could not.

Prisoner exchanges helped the South by returning trained veteran soldiers to their ranks. By the same logic, forcing the South to care for Union prisoners in their custody drained resources and manpower.


When the South began to treat captured Union black soldiers – they were referred to as Colored Troops in the parlance of the time – as escaped slaves rather than prisoners of war, the North finally broke existing agreements regarding prisoners and the development of prisoner of war camps for extended custody began in the warring states. In the North camps opened in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New York, and elsewhere, often on the sites of former training camps for the steadily growing Union armies. Captured Confederate troops often found better rations and living conditions than they had experienced within the ranks of the dwindling Southern armies, at least until arriving at the prison camps.

In the South, Union troops held in Southern camps found somewhat different conditions. Many of the Southern camps were built near water which in the extended months of the Southern summer became mosquito-infested swamps, with attendant malaria spreading among the prisoners. Cholera and typhus were also rampant in some camps. The South had little food for its troops and less for its prisoners, a situation that worsened steadily as the war went on.

Camp Sumter (known in the North as Andersonville Prison) was opened in south central Georgia during the winter of 1864, and during its just over one year of operation held up to 45,000 Union prisoners. Of these, almost 13,000 died. Some deaths were from complications of battlefield wounds poorly treated, but most were from malnutrition leading to scurvy, dysentery, typhus, and other deadly diseases which today are easily controlled through proper diet and hygiene. The prisoners subsided largely on parched corn, chicory weed, and rarely, dried salted fish.

The main source of freshwater was Stockade Creek, which ran through the camp inside the fence line, and was unfortunately used by many men as both a washing place and a sewer, ensuring that the water further downstream but still within the camp was polluted. Warmth was provided by open firepits and a few scattered stoves, and while the camp was surrounded by forest little wood was provided to the prisoners, nor were they permitted to forage.

During wet months or following heavy summer rains, Stockade Creek turned a large portion of the enclosed grounds into bogs and swamp, infested with the impressively aggressive mosquitos and blackflies of the Deep South. Despite these and the diseases they carried, the majority of the deaths in the camp were from other causes, chiefly scorbutic dysentery (known as the bloody flux) a severe form of diarrhea caused by a shortage of vitamin C.

The majority of prisoners lived in thrown together hovels covered with scraps of blankets or rags, or else in the open air, as the construction of the planned wooden huts to house the prisoners were never completed.

Camp Sumter was commanded by Captain Heinrich Wirz – known as Henry Wirz – a Swiss-born former physician’s assistant who had worked as a plantation overseer and physician, caring for the health of his employer’s slaves, in Louisiana just before the war. He gained combat experience and a wound at the Battle of Seven Pines and later served as an emissary to Europe while an aide to General John Winder, who was in charge of prisoners of war. When the camp at Andersonville was established Wirz was assigned to command.

In fairness to Wirz, he immediately recognized the dire nature of the situation within Camp Sumter and petitioned his own government for aid in the form of food, medicines and other basic supplies. When the Confederate government denied his requests, Wirz, on his own initiative, selected five Union officers from the Camp rolls and sent them under a flag of truce to Union authorities, bearing with them a petition for aid written by the incarcerated prisoners.

The petition, received by the Union in July 1864, described the conditions of the camp and implored a resumption of the exchange program, which would set the prisoners free. Given the large number of Confederates held by the Union following the Gettysburg and Vicksburg campaigns, such an exchange, or any other aid, was deemed to be aiding the enemy. Grant denied the petition (at Lincoln’s direct request), rightly judging that the South needed the returned prisoners more than the North, although he deplored the conditions as described.

Wirz became to history a villain along the lines of the commandants of Japanese or Nazi prisoner of war camps, a symbol of monstrous cruelty to the victorious North, despite 145 witnesses (out of 160) testifying that they had never seen any act of cruelty performed by the camp commander. Others testified to his outright humanity, and the point was made at his trial for war crimes that the Union Naval blockade had been equally responsible, if not more so, for denying medical supplies and other materials to the prisoners in the camp. Nonetheless, Wirz was convicted of war crimes and executed for the same, one of the earlier examples of such a fate being imposed upon a vanquished enemy.


When Surrender Was Worse Than Death: 8 Realities about Life at Andersonville Prison During the Civil War
Escapees were often hunted down with dogs and men experienced in hunting escaped slaves. Library of Congress


Escapes and Resistance
Prisoners of war have immense amounts of time on their hands, a situation which all armies strive to avoid the creation of “busy work.” In the case of Camp Sumter, the prisoners were often too weak from the effects of near-starvation or the ravages of diarrhea to do anything but bask in their misery in the oppressive Georgia heat and humidity. Yet some intrepid souls, despite the threat of death, sought to escape the bounds of the camp and return to their units.

Escape was especially promising due to the fact that the enemy, and the grounds to be traversed on the way home, were populated with people who spoke the same language. In the growing confusion surrounding the nearing end of the war, it was possible for a soldier to escape and simply make it back home, rather than return to duty, and many tried. Success was fleeting.

Of the 351 escape attempts recorded by Confederates, 32 soldiers made it back to Union lines and rejoined their units. While this number does not take into account any escapees that simply returned home it does give an idea of the difficulties involved in not only clearing the camp but making it to the Union lines while suffering the effects of malnutrition. Many escapees undoubtedly died on the run, making up the discrepancy between Confederate records of those who slipped away and Union records of those who made it home.

The US Army retains the record of the 32 successful escapes from the camp, and occasional pertinent facts. For example, one such escape occurred when Nicholas Williams slipped away from the camp on the 1st of May, 1865 – three weeks after the surrender of Robert E. Lee and as the war, and the South, was dwindling down. By that time it was possible for a prisoner with the strength and inclination to simply walk away, as Williams did.

When Surrender Was Worse Than Death: 8 Realities about Life at Andersonville Prison During the Civil War
The Union’s Anaconda Plan blockaded the South into starvation – and Union prisoners along with it. Library of Congress

The Union Blockade
One of the primary strategies of the Civil War on the part of the Union was known as the Anaconda Plan. Proposed in the opening days of the war and strongly backed by Abraham Lincoln, the plan called for the powerful US Navy to blockade all Southern ports, seize New Orleans and the major cities on the Ohio and Mississippi, (Memphis, Vicksburg, Louisville and Cincinnati), and gradually starve the south.

As the war went on Cavalry raids by the ever more efficient Union horsemen destroyed the critical farmlands which were the only source of food to the Confederate troops, medicines were interdicted by Naval resources, and new clothing and blankets became scarce since the South lacked sufficient factories to produce the minimum needed.

Southern civilians suffered enormous privations. Southern troops in the field suffered even greater. Forced to live off of the land in war-ravaged Virginia and Tennessee, the Confederate armies found few crops and little livestock on which to subsist. By 1864, the Southern railway system, essential to moving what little supplies were available, was largely in the control of their enemies from the North. Into this cauldron of want, the North thrust the responsibility of caring for prisoners of war when the South could barely care for itself. The cancellation of any exchange program burdening the South with more mouths to feed ensured the suffering of the mouths placed in their care, a seemingly callous but militarily justifiable decision.

There is little doubt that the success of the Union strategy caused great suffering in the South, and by extension to those prisoners held by the South. This has often been cited as an example of Grant’s inhumanity and for his callous regard of casualties. Both arguments are unfair. The end of the prisoner exchange was decided well above Grant’s rank – today it would be said to be “above his paygrade” and occurred well before he was in charge of all Union armies. He did recognize the need for it, despite the hardship it caused, and like the good soldier he was he supported it publicly while lamenting it in the privacy of his personal diary.


The Sultana
After the surrender of Robert E. Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia, the Confederate government fled its capital of Richmond, Virginia and for the most part the Civil War was over, despite General Joseph Johnston’s army remaining defiantly in the field. Enterprising businessmen on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line began looking for ways to profit in the confusion, before military governments and martial law came to hamper private enterprise. Transporting former prisoners of war home was one such possibility. Parole camps were established near river ports, including Vicksburg, and prisoners were transferred from Southern camps such as Camp Sumter to the parole camps. Officially there was no government to which they could give their parole, but that was a minor difficulty when immediate profits were to be made.

From the parole camp many of the survivors of Camp Sumter, emaciated, sick and officially still members of the US Army, were readied for transportation north, via the steamboat Sultana on the Ohio River. Arrangements were made for the US government, through the Army’s quartermaster corps, to pay $5 per enlisted man transported and $10 per officer. Sultana was accordingly overloaded to the point of near swamping. Sultana had experienced problems with its boilers while en route to Vicksburg, but that did not stop its captain from loading his vessel with more than 1,900 “paroled” prisoners of war, along with crew members and at least 70 paying passengers who were no doubt displeased at the severely crowded conditions they found aboard.

For the next two days, Sultana struggled upriver against the spring floods, crippled by its failing boiler, vastly overloaded, and its crew hampered in their movements by the overcrowded conditions. When only a few miles north of Memphis during the early morning of April 27th the weakened boiler exploded, and the concussion caused the explosion of two others in short order. Sultana became a drifting, flaming, wreck overloaded with men weakened by their lengthy and debilitating captivity.

Although rescue operations on the busy river began almost immediately the combination of fire, the frigid water of the Mississippi in spring, and the weakness of many passengers made for a heavy death toll. About 760 survived. The official death count has never been confirmed, based in part on the number of additional passengers packed aboard beyond the official manifest in anticipation of collecting the princely sum of $5 per head.

When Surrender Was Worse Than Death: 8 Realities about Life at Andersonville Prison During the Civil War
The Raiders preyed upon the guards and fellow prisoners alike. There existence helped prompt the creation of a Code of Conduct for American servicemen following the war. New York Public Library

The Andersonville Raiders
There was no Code of Conduct for US Troops during the Civil War, a fact which vexed Abraham Lincoln, who pushed for the Army to adopt one. Since the idea of prisoner of war camps was a new one, the means by which existing military discipline could be carried through within the confines of a camp was unknown to American military science.

It became contingent upon the men themselves, through force of personality and physical prowess, to enforce some semblance of discipline. For most of the prisoners, life in Camp Sumter, as in other Southern prisons, soon disintegrated into Darwin’s as yet undefined method of natural selection.

Prisoners developed extensive social networks within the confines of the camp, often including the Confederate guards, who were essentially not much better off than their charges in terms of food and health. Food and tobacco became currency, as did clothing, blankets and most importantly of all, information regarding military and camp activities. The proximity of Sherman’s army and the range of his cavalry units was not lost on prisoners or guards, and attempts to reach them were frequent.

In this atmosphere, a group of prisoners emerged as the Andersonville Raiders, who used clubs, cooking knives and any weapons they could fabricate to rob and kill fellow prisoners, and if necessary intervening guards. A group soon formed in opposition which called themselves the Regulators, and which tried captured Raiders in Kangaroo courts before administering sentences which included death by hanging. The Confederate administrators were too weak to intervene with the breakdown of discipline, and Wirz’s recognition that the prisoners were, in fact, running the prison was one factor in his decision to send a deputation to the North to ask for assistance.

Notable Prisoners
On July 1, 1863, Newell Burch, serving with the 154th New York Volunteers, was captured near the town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. For the next few days, he was held behind the lines as Lee’s army and that of General George Meade flung themselves at each other in the greatest battle ever fought in North America. When the defeated Confederate Army decided to withdraw to Virginia Burch, with other prisoners, was offered in exchange. When the offer was rebuffed, he withdrew southward with the battered Confederate Army, reaching Richmond Virginia long before his comrades in the Union Army of the Potomac.

He was temporarily held in Richmond’s Belle Isle prison before being transferred to Camp Sumter, arriving in late winter of 1864. Burch survived the war and left a detailed diary of his experiences, including his experience in treating gangrene in other prisoners. By the time the war ended he had spent 21 months as a prisoner of war, the longest-tenured POW of the Civil War. Burch’s diary provides a great deal of information on the workings of both Belle Isle and Andersonville prisons, as well as the morale of the Army of Northern Virginia in the days following the Battle of Gettysburg.

Dorence Atwater was one of the first arrivals at Andersonville and was tasked by his captors with recording a list of all prisoners who died at the camp. Diligent in his work, Atwater kept a second copy for himself, which he kept hidden from his captors, having rightly concluded from the prevailing conditions in the camp that the original would never be seen by official Union eyes. Eventually, he recorded the names of over 13,000 Union prisoners and upon his departure from the camp he carried the list with him in his laundry bag.

After the war, Atwater’s list was instrumental in identifying many of the grave markers in the National Cemetery which grew out of the Camp Sumter graveyard. Eventually, the death list was presented to Horace Greeley, who ensured its publication in the New York Times, which prompted the until then lax federal government to publish an official copy.

Atwater eventually became United States Consul to Tahiti, and after marrying a Royal Princess of the Island he alternated his time between residences in Tahiti and San Francisco. He lived through the San Francisco Earthquake and Fire of 1906, although his home was destroyed, and eventually died in 1910, still in possession of the original list.

Andersonville was no worse than other camps
In Richmond, the Capital of the Confederacy, captured Union officers were confined within the walls of a former tobacco warehouse, three stories in height, and like most tobacco warehouses light and airy. In its early days as a prison, it was used to hold officers who were awaiting exchange, and courtesy visits from Confederate officers who were often former classmates of the imprisoned were commonplace.

As the war dragged on the number of prisoners increased, and insufficient sanitary facilities made themselves felt. Prison windows were barred rather than glazed, and exposure to Richmond’s chill and damp winters encouraged disease. The greatest problem, as at Andersonville and other camps in the South, was insufficient food, clothing and medicines, problems which also beset the Confederate Armies and population.

Northern Prisoners of War Camps did not face the problems of blockade and military defeat limiting their resources, but Southern prisoners of war often faced the same grim odds of survival as their counterparts in Southern camps. Camp Elmira, in New York, was on the site of a former Union Army training camp, with immediate access to two major northern railways. It was used as a prisoner of war camp from July 1864 until one year later, in 1865.

During that year of operation, 12,000 prisoners would be assigned to the camp which they dubbed “Hellmira” and almost 3,000 of them would perish to disease, malnutrition, exposure, and poor sanitation. A goodly amount of these deaths were retaliatory; Northern commanders, having heard of the harsh conditions faced by Union prisoners in camps such as Andersonville, were determined to match those conditions for Confederate prisoners of war.

The media of the day, mostly the New York newspapers, downplayed the conditions of the northern prisons, some of which were worse than Elmira, while exaggerating the suffering in Southern prisons (if such were possible). The fact is that conditions on either side were virtually the same, but the South shared its privations with the general population and the army. On the other hand, the prosperous North fielded a well-fed and equipped army and supported a booming wartime economy as the prisoners in its care suffered from appalling conditions. The mortality rate for Camp Elmira was 24.5%, for Camp Sumter 28.7%. The death rates for other camps on both sides were similar. In short, the life expectancy of a prisoner of war during the Civil War was often worse than that of a front-line soldier.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 09:21:46 AM
Campbell's Soup

After completing his doctorate in Germany, John T. Dorrance declined prestigious academic posts to work in his uncle's canning factory—the Joseph Campbell Preserve Company—in Camden, New Jersey. In 1897, he began replicating in condensed form the soups he had enjoyed in Europe. By 1904, his soups dominated company sales. Still famous today for its soups, Campbell's is also known for its iconic cans, immortalized by Andy Warhol. One of his soup artworks sold for $11.8 million.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2022, 10:06:46 AM
Pretty  sure the cans were etched on the country's psyche before Warhol painted them different colors.never understood why he was considered so great.Rockwell there was great American Artist - IMHO of course
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2022, 10:28:20 AM
When Surrender Was Worse Than Death: 8 Realities about Life at Andersonville Prison During the Civil War

Andersonville was no worse than other camps
Call bullshit on that.What other prison camp had 33,000 deaths? I'd watch Ken Burns,PBS docu.Some years ago i picked up a book on the local soldiers back in the day that had fought in the "Late Unpleasantness".They had last names of many of the roads/streets around here now.Anyway the book had the written correspondence between a soldier (in the western theater) and his wife back here.

 The letters were unbelievable,they were so much better at writing than we today as that was really their only form of communicating abroad.So they took their time and were all inclusive.No phone,internet etc there were telegraphs but that cost money. The back and forth letters informing each other of the goings on was brilliant.Then one day the letters from the front stopped.It turned out he was captured and sent to Andersonville and never heard from again.Because of the letters the reader felt that they knew him.Finding out his fate was ghastly as it was indeed real.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 11:07:05 AM
can't be bullshite

I found it on FB
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 11:07:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of Taranto (1940)
The Battle of Taranto during World War II marked the first all-aircraft naval attack in history. The results were definitive, as British planes destroyed much of the Italian fleet anchored in Taranto, in an arm of the Ionian Sea. The battle is seen as a turning point in military history, marking the end of the reign of "big-gun" battleships and leading to the rise of naval air power. Certain aspects of the attack were studied as part of the planning for what other notorious aerial assault?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2022, 11:12:12 AM
can't be bullshite

I found it on FB
Well that settles it but they did lay off what?12,000 employees so you get what you pay for
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 11:13:31 AM
first to go were the "fact checkers"?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2022, 11:24:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Battle of Taranto (1940)
The Battle of Taranto during World War II marked the first all-aircraft naval attack in history. The results were definitive, as British planes destroyed much of the Italian fleet anchored in Taranto, in an arm of the Ionian Sea. The battle is seen as a turning point in military history, marking the end of the reign of "big-gun" battleships and leading to the rise of naval air power. 
And the Dumb ass Churchill after Pearl Harbor sent HMS Repulse and Prince of Wales to their doom in the South China Sea without air cover.Both sunk by torpedos from subs and aircraft
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 11, 2022, 12:57:06 PM
"Dumb ass Churchill" is not something I see everyday. He was a flawed person, no doubt, with more than a little hubris, and more than one tactical error to his name (with ugly casualty counts to show for them). And he was exactly what the world needed in 1940--flaws and all.

Talk about weird. Humans are weird--and can be both great and terrible all wrapped up in the same skin.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2022, 01:09:24 PM
He had an inflasted view of his own greatness - fine statesman had no business directing military affairs.Based on the 40+ books I've read on WW2 is where i found out about his foibles.He may have been what England needed in 40-41-42 after that his constant support of Montgomery after he sacked much better commanders cost the allies time and lives
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 01:11:24 PM
similar to Ryan Day's playcalling
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2022, 01:12:37 PM
I have no problem with Day's playcalling.He could recruit more big uglies 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 01:21:04 PM
well, not all of Ryan's play calls work

I don't have a problem with Winston's military directives
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 11, 2022, 02:30:14 PM
He had an inflasted view of his own greatness - fine statesman had no business directing military affairs.Based on the 40+ books I've read on WW2 is where i found out about his foibles.He may have been what England needed in 40-41-42 after that his constant support of Montgomery after he sacked much better commanders cost the allies time and lives

I agree with this, but I would say it was more than just England. His refusal to cower before the Nazi war machine not only inspired the English (and Scots, Welsh, and Northern Irish) to keep up the fight, but also allowed the Allies time to gear up for winning the war. Better historians than me have speculated about what would have transpired if the UK had folded when other leaders would have recommended that, but my shorthand view is that the Reich would have cemented quite a hold on Europe with terrible consequences for humanity.

And that's my point--he was a great man for the time; he was the man the time required. I worry when people conflate that with an idealized man--one without flaws. He had flaws--deep ones. And the UK was probably correct to depose him in 1944 because by then his flaws had overtaken the utility of his stubborn will and masterful cheerleading. I won't forgive him his faults, but I nonetheless think he deserves his good reputation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 02:33:14 PM
https://youtu.be/nO6YL09T8Fw
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 11, 2022, 04:22:46 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Battle of Taranto (1940)
The Battle of Taranto during World War II marked the first all-aircraft naval attack in history. The results were definitive, as British planes destroyed much of the Italian fleet anchored in Taranto, in an arm of the Ionian Sea. The battle is seen as a turning point in military history, marking the end of the reign of "big-gun" battleships and leading to the rise of naval air power. Certain aspects of the attack were studied as part of the planning for what other notorious aerial assault?
The answer, of course, is Pear Harbor.  The two attacks (Taranto and PH) are remarkably similar.  What is astounding is that the US commanders at PH failed to learn the lessons of Taranto in the ~13 months between that and the attack on Pear Harbor.  

Kimmel and Short (the Navy and Army commanders at PH) were relieved of command shortly after the attack and, I think court martialed for failing to be better prepared for the attack.  There has been a lot of support for rehabilitating their reputations based on the information learned from broken codes possibly not being properly communicated to them.  I come down on the other side of that debate.  Even without a direct warning from codebreaking they were WELL AWARE of significant tension between the US and Japan and the entire US hierarchy knew that war with Japan was probable and that Japan had started the Russo-Japanese war with a surprise attack.  They should have foreseen the possibility and been better prepared for it.  

That said, in the long run it is probably better that they didn't.  If they had been better prepared the US Aircraft at Pear Harbor would likely have gotten into the air and done significant damage to the Japanese attackers.  It is even possible that the aircraft could have mounted a counter-attack against the Japanese fleet and inflicted damage on or sunk one or more Japanese carriers.  However, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that the US aircraft from Hawaii would have been more than a nusiance for the Japanese carriers.  

The bigger problem, had Kimmel and Short been better prepared, is that they would probably have had the ships ready to sail and thus they would have left port.  If they had evaded the Japanese that would have been great but it is FAR more likely that they'd have still been sunk but instead of being sunk in the very shallow harbor where they could be refloated, repaired, and put back in service in a few years, they'd have been sunk outside the harbor in DEEP water.  The water even just barely outside the harbor is far to deep for recovery efforts so any ships sunk basically outside the mouth of the harbor would have been lost forever.  

Additionally, USS Enterprise was West of Hawaii on it's way back from dropping off airplanes at Wake.  Assuming Kimmel and Short had done a better job of surveillance, they probably would have diverted Enterprise to investigate the Japanese fleet and/or attack.  That would likely have involved USS Enterprise in a lopsided 6 vs 1 engagement with Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, Hiryu, Shokaku, and Zuikaku.  

As it was, the attack caused around 2,000 deaths.  Other than that the only losses not repaired and put back in service were:

If the BB's had gotten underway it is fairly likely that there would have been more permanently lost ships.  Additionally, the crews of any lost ships would have been adrift at sea rather than within a short swim of Ford Island.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 11, 2022, 04:25:49 PM
I agree with this, but I would say it was more than just England. His refusal to cower before the Nazi war machine not only inspired the English (and Scots, Welsh, and Northern Irish) to keep up the fight, but also allowed the Allies time to gear up for winning the war. Better historians than me have speculated about what would have transpired if the UK had folded when other leaders would have recommended that, but my shorthand view is that the Reich would have cemented quite a hold on Europe with terrible consequences for humanity.

And that's my point--he was a great man for the time; he was the man the time required. I worry when people conflate that with an idealized man--one without flaws. He had flaws--deep ones. And the UK was probably correct to depose him in 1944 because by then his flaws had overtaken the utility of his stubborn will and masterful cheerleading. I won't forgive him his faults, but I nonetheless think he deserves his good reputation.
I don't think Churchill was responsible for sending Repulse and PoW out.  He was responsible for sending them to the far East, of course and they had arrived only days before the war began but I am fairly certain that the decision to send them out to challenge the landings was a local decision.  Additionally, Repulse and PoW were originally supposed to have been accompanied (to Singapore) by a carrier (I forget which one) but something happened to it (I forget what, mechanical issue I think) and it didn't end up making the trip.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2022, 08:52:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge Opens to Traffic (1936)
The "Bay Bridge" is a toll bridge linking the California cities of Oakland and San Francisco. About 280,000 vehicles cross it each day. San Francisco residents first recognized the need for a bridge spanning the San Francisco Bay during the Gold Rush when they found themselves cut off from the newly built railroad on the far side of the bay. However, construction of the span was delayed until 1933. Originally, the bridge was to be named after Governor James Rolph.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 13, 2022, 08:55:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ronald DeFeo, Jr., Murders Family in Amityville, New York (1974)
After the DeFeo family was discovered murdered in their beds, Ronald DeFeo, Jr.—the family's only surviving member—was placed under police protection. DeFeo initially told investigators that he believed the murders were a mob hit, but he soon confessed and was convicted of murdering his parents and four siblings. A number of controversies surround the case, especially regarding the possible involvement of DeFeo's sister Dawn.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 13, 2022, 08:33:11 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/315078329_8935227423157823_5940894329944653296_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=UWNSWnA4djMAX-PDS1d&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCGGq-mw1jFo7mla07yfRMUiYRKbS1kqgyuBljS2cOcYQ&oe=6376950C)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 14, 2022, 09:11:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Melville's Moby-Dick Published in the US (1851)
Inspired by his whaling experiences on the South Seas, Herman Melville penned Moby-Dick, the now famed tale of a deranged whaling captain's obsessive voyage to find and destroy the great white whale to whom he lost his leg. The novel is at once an exciting sea story, a sociological critique of American prejudices, a repository of information about whaling, and a philosophical inquiry into the nature of good and evil.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 14, 2022, 09:45:40 AM
Based on a true story
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 14, 2022, 04:42:12 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Melville's Moby-Dick Published in the US (1851)
Inspired by his whaling experiences on the South Seas, Herman Melville penned Moby-Dick, the now famed tale of a deranged whaling captain's obsessive voyage to find and destroy the great white whale to whom he lost his leg. The novel is at once an exciting sea story, a sociological critique of American prejudices, a repository of information about whaling, and a philosophical inquiry into the nature of good and evil.

And would have made a good short story, but is a brutal read as a novel. From the times when authors were paid by the word, and it reads like it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2022, 07:01:25 PM
And here is what was actually said courtesy of the late Mike Green; “Battleship at War”, the history of the USS Washington by Ivan Musicant:
“At 2148, Task Force 64 had reached a point 10 miles North of Savo Island; Ching Lee altered course to 150T, Southeast, and the ships steamed directly into Ironbottom Sound. As the vessels swung onto their new heading, transmissions in code and plain language English began coming through the tactical voice frequencies. The code, according to Lt. Raymond Thompson, Lee’s flag lieutenant, “was a new edition that we did not have.” That was a misfortune the admiral might have rued had events turned out different.
The radio traffic was from the Tulagi PT boat squadron, on patrol North of Savo. They had spotted Admiral Kondo’s force in Indispensable Strait and they sent off their report in the new code. Farther South they had blundered upon TF 64 and transmitted its position in the clear ending with; “There go two big ones, but I don’t know whose they are.”
Averting what could have been a most dangerous encounter to all those involved, Ching Lee took matters quickly in hand. Over the tactical voice frequency he sent a personal plain language message to “Cactus” (Guadalcanal Headquarters code name).
Although not exactly “Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead,” Lee’s message nevertheless got the point across.
The “text” was often referred to in the fast battleships for the rest of the war, and everyone had his own version.
Lt. Ray Hunter, OOD, who should know, remembered it this way.
“He went over to the TBS (talk between ships) and pressed the button. “This is Ching Chong China Lee!  Refer your big boss* about Ching Lee!  Call off your boys!”
The PT boats responded with admirable speed.  “Identity established.  We are not after you.”
Everyone on the bridge breathed a little easier, and the task force swept on at a moderate speed of seventeen knots.
*Maj. General Alexander Vandegrift, USMC, Commanding General 1st Marine Division and all U.S. forces on Guadalcanal.”

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 07:50:25 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Sir Oswald Mosley (1896)
Dubbed the 20th century's worst Briton by the BBC History Magazine, Mosley was a British politician who founded the British Union of Fascists, modeled upon the German and Italian fascist parties of the 1930s. Members adopted Nazi-style uniforms and promoted anti-Semitism. In 1940, Mosley and his second wife, Diana Guinness, a known friend of Adolf Hitler, were interned along with other prominent British fascists.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2022, 09:06:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/sUOkiy7.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 09:59:18 AM
not my tab
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 16, 2022, 10:48:47 AM
It isn't really history since it just happened but over Veteran's Day weekend six people were killed and two vintage WWII aircraft were destroyed at an airshow in the Dallas area. 

A P63 (upgraded P39) collided with a B17 and both aircraft were destroyed. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2022, 11:23:40 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/sKrXZx0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2022, 01:20:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/OoQNvmO.png)

This has to be among the weirdest-looking of all Sherman variants.
It is the T31 demolition tank, which began its life in 1944 after a request for an engineer vehicle armed with two 7.2 inch rocket launchers in the turret.
These launchers were encased in their own armored compartments on either side of the turret. Two .30 caliber machine guns were also added to the turret for close-in defense, as well as a .50 caliber.
Interestingly, a dummy 105 mm howitzer barrel was fitted in the center of the turret. Many sources state that this was indeed a working weapon, but this is untrue. There were also plans to install a flame thrower, in case three .30 caliber machine guns, one .50 caliber machine gun and two 7.2 inch rocket launchers weren't enough.
A single prototype was completed in 1945, but due to problems in testing and the end of the war the project was cancelled.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2022, 01:24:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sKrXZx0.png)
Looks like they nabbed someone on the left, any of your kin bootleggers?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2022, 01:28:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sUOkiy7.png)
So that's what our board meetings use to look like.I always thought it was like this

(https://i.imgur.com/34hcrzb.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2022, 01:37:22 PM
This has to be among the weirdest-looking of all Sherman variants.
It is the T31 demolition tank, which began its life in 1944 after a request for an engineer vehicle armed with two 7.2 inch rocket launchers in the turret. There were also plans to install a flame thrower, in case three .30 caliber machine guns, one .50 caliber machine gun and two 7.2 inch rocket launchers weren't enough.
Even if that model was completed with the flamethrower,it would have been more serviceable in the Pacific.It would get blasted in the ETO because the Reich had much better armor piercing capabilities.Guys would have to be nuts to crawl inside of that and become a roman candle or a road flare
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2022, 11:36:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Wf7Vqy9.png)

First in the nation in NJ 1928.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on November 17, 2022, 04:00:33 PM
Wonder what it looks like now? 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2022, 04:03:09 PM
Probably has flyovers now.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2022, 04:04:35 PM
So that's what our board meetings use to look like.I always thought it was like this

(https://i.imgur.com/34hcrzb.png)


Yeah, that's it. I'm the guy in the shopping cart. We're missing TK in that picture, as he was busy outrunning the Madison police.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on November 17, 2022, 04:05:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Wf7Vqy9.png)

First in the nation in NJ 1928.
Looks like there were a lot of loose lips who needed a government contract to do away with
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2022, 07:58:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PWAbLsC.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2022, 08:35:34 AM
Didn't he expand on a space-time continuum and question the work of Albert Einstein? Who examined the laws of physics as they related to the speed of light.Einstein had concluded that space and time, rather than separate and unrelated phenomena, are actually interwoven into a single continuum (called space-time) that spans multiple dimensions - length/width/height/time.I use to read this stuff in between issues of Field & Stream(Not really). As good as they were I don't think Einstein or Bohr could beat the spead during football season
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2022, 08:40:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/MBkhsaF.jpg)

Here's a postcard issued in the early 1940s that shows a rendering of the Orange Bowl when it opened in 1937. It was then known as Burdine Stadium, then named after Miami's pioneer merchant Roddey Burdine, who passed away one year before the stadium was completed. The original seating capacity was 23,330. End zone bleachers were added in 1939. The upper deck would be constructed in 1947.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2022, 08:41:36 AM
That would be big enough to hold all of the Cane fans today, plus extra for visiting fans.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 08:47:49 AM
Yeah, that's it. I'm the guy in the shopping cart. We're missing TK in that picture, as he was busy outrunning the Madison police.
I'm the guy on the right in the #15 Tommie Frazier jersey with a Bud Fat held high
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 09:36:10 AM
“Hail Varsity” debuted today in 1936, written by music professor Wilbur Chenoweth with words by alumnus Warren Joyce Ayres. The Daily Nebraskan began to lobby it as the official school song, which it became in 1937.

📷: UNL Archives and Special Collections

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/316036028_506645351493408_5435939436283353453_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=hs84WUQQAm0AX_-Qr3B&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAOphvlGs7UzRygbsAIIT5yBc0j4tcKmBIspcN7ngUwfw&oe=637CB30B)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 12:19:32 PM
ARMISTICE DAY, THE DAY 85 DUCK HUNTERS DIED

The fall of 1940 was a mild one in the Midwest. October brought an Indian summer with warm temperatures, no wind, and little rain. The general public loved it, but duck hunters hated it.

As every waterfowler knows, it takes “bad” weather to kickstart the migration each autumn. Sure, there was a smattering of local teal, wigeon, and shovelers to be hunted early in the season, but most of North America’s ducks were fattening up on Canada’s prairie well into fall.

That all changed on November 10 when a forecast came that held promise. Cold, snow, wind, and clouds were predicted for most of the North. The timing couldn’t have been better—or worse, with hindsight. The next day, November 11, was Armistice Day, a widely recognized and widely celebrated holiday at that time.

Armistice Day commemorated the peace treaty signed between the Allies and Germany that ended WWI in 1918. In 1954, President Dwight Eisenhower changed the name to Veterans’ Day “to insure proper and widespread observance” of all soldiers from all wars.

The forecast did exactly what it was supposed to: Hordes of mallards, redheads, bluebills, and canvasbacks poured into the Great Plains and Great Lakes regions. Hunters took to water and field that morning with high expectations that were certainly met. Many even referred to it as the best day of duck hunting they’d ever experienced.


“At 2 o’clock the rain turned into wind-driven sleet and snow, and within the next two hours I saw more waterfowl than I’ve seen in my life,” Dale Engler, who was hunting on the Mississippi River in Minnesota, wrote in a personal account in 1963. “About that time some hunters started to go ashore, but I thought it was just an early snowstorm and paid no attention. Besides, I was having the time of my life.”

Engler’s story isn’t unique. Thousands of waterfowlers across the Midwest hunted into the afternoon as clouds of snow and clouds of ducks filled the atmosphere. As the weather got worse, the duck hunting got better.

What was taking place was a collision of cold, dry polar air from Canada and warm, moist, subtropical air from the Gulf of Mexico. The result was a blizzard that brought 2 feet of snow, 40 to 50 m.p.h. sustained winds (with gusts of 80), and a 30-degree temperature swing from above freezing to single digits.

The storm halted travel, knocked out power and phone lines, and devastated livestock. So many domestic turkeys died in Minnesota and Iowa that farmers were selling “fresh frozen” birds for 25 cents apiece. There was a regional shortage for Thanksgiving that year, with some estimates suggesting 1.5 million turkeys were lost in the blizzard.

And in the middle of this once-in-a-lifetime storm were the unprepared duck hunters. At best, hunters were wearing cotton duck coats and canvas gloves and hats. At worst, they were in jeans and flannels. It’s hard to blame them, though.


“It was shirt-sleeve weather,” William Hull wrote in “All Hell Broke Loose.” “Fifty degrees. Few had given a second thought to cold weather gear. But few could have imagined the deadly nightmare that would besiege the Upper Midwest that day.”

For many hunters that stayed afield beyond lunchtime, it was too late. Cranky outboard motors wouldn’t start, and even if they did, the waves had become too big to navigate. Their only option was to spend the night in the blizzard.

Some hunters managed to find other hunters and consolidate resources, but many entered the night in groups of two or three. Either way, they had to get creative to fight off hypothermia. Some took turns shooting down tree branches to stoke a fire or light loose piles of gunpowder for brief moments of heat. Others held their dogs to stay warm or punched each other to stay awake.

For those that made it to daylight, the agony wasn’t over. The wind still blew, temps still hovered around zero, and boat motors were no more willing to start. Hunters mostly had to rely on other hunters for rescuing, but there was one waterfowling guardian angel in the sky that day.

Max Conrad, a pilot who dozens of hunters said they owed their lives to, risked his own on Tuesday, November 12, to fly his Piper Cub over the Mississippi. Conrad scanned the frozen earth for the living, but often just discovered the dead.


If he did find a survivor, he’d swing his plane low, cut the engine, scream out the window that help was on the way, and drop canisters filled with sandwiches, matches, whiskey, and cigarettes. After that, he’d circle above them until rescue boats could zero in on the location and reach the hunters. Conrad did this until 10 p.m. that night, then got up the next morning and did it all again.

Casualty estimates range from 159 to 210—about 85 were duck hunters from North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Illinois and 66 were sailors on Lake Michigan. The rest were made up of train passengers, motorists, farmers, children, and more. The massive loss of life inspired the U.S. Weather Bureau to invest more in technology and communication to ensure that this would never happen again.

“Meteorologists shudder when the Armistice Day blizzard subject comes up,” meteorologist Paul Douglas of Minnesota told Minnesota Public Radio in a 2000 interview. “I think technology has helped and we would not be caught off guard again. But certainly there can still be scenarios where we are surprised, where we are caught, and that’s why this can be such a humbling profession.”

You also can’t underestimate a hunter’s willingness to push through bad weather to ascend one more mountain, or hunt one more hour, or kill one more mallard. For those that didn’t die in their blind or boat, the day served as a reminder of what could have been and what was.

“The ducks were all over, so we just stood there and shot ‘em,” Ed Kosidowski, a Minnesota hunter, said in a 1983 interview. “We had warm clothes—extra socks and all—so we kept firing away. Oh, it was a terrible night. We didn’t make it to shore until about 10 p.m. But that shooting, oh that shooting, you couldn’t imagine it.”


(https://wp.themeateater.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/armistice-day-blizzard-3.jpg)

Two dead duck hunters from Minnesota.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 19, 2022, 07:50:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Abraham Lincoln Delivers Gettysburg Address (1863)
The Gettysburg Address, one of the most quoted speeches in US history, was delivered by President Abraham Lincoln at the dedication of the Soldiers' National Cemetery in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, four and half months after the famous battle fought there. In about two minutes, Lincoln's address redefined the American Civil War as not just a struggle for the Union, but as "a new birth of freedom" for the US and its people.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 19, 2022, 10:15:06 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Abraham Lincoln Delivers Gettysburg Address (1863)
The Gettysburg Address, one of the most quoted speeches in US history, was delivered by President Abraham Lincoln at the dedication of the Soldiers' National Cemetery in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, four and half months after the famous battle fought there. In about two minutes, Lincoln's address redefined the American Civil War as not just a struggle for the Union, but as "a new birth of freedom" for the US and its people.
I've always found it ironic that probably the most memorized speech in America starts with the line:"History will little note, nor long remember what we say here . . ."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 19, 2022, 11:08:49 AM
Pictured here is the Ryan FR-1 Fireball. It has to be one of the strangest planes ever built.

It has a radial piston engine in the nose driving a propeller AND a jet engine in the tail. It was designed and built for the US Navy during WWII and entered service before the end of WWII. It only barely missed seeing Combat during the war but did not last long after the Japanese surrendered. There were design issues and, in any case, the Navy quickly moved on to all jet powered aircraft anyway. 

The reason for this strange configuration was that early jets lacked the quick acceleration necessary to take off from short Carrier flight decks so Ryan and the Navy got around this with this dual power system.

I think the idea was that it would combine the best aspects of piston and jet power but the reality was that it combined the worst aspects of piston and jet power. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 19, 2022, 11:33:59 AM
weird
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 19, 2022, 01:54:58 PM
There were several jet-prop planes back in the day, including of course 6 turning and 4 burning.  The jet engine wasn't all that reliable, used a lot of fuel, and had problems with low thrust off the line, as noted, so the composite seemed to make sense.  The Navy operated a fair number of prop planes during the Korean conflict.  It was a lot easier to transition with long runways.  The catapult system helped change that.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 19, 2022, 02:05:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/QQ3HflJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 19, 2022, 08:23:21 PM
There were several jet-prop planes back in the day, including of course 6 turning and 4 burning.  The jet engine wasn't all that reliable, used a lot of fuel, and had problems with low thrust off the line, as noted, so the composite seemed to make sense.  The Navy operated a fair number of prop planes during the Korean conflict.  It was a lot easier to transition with long runways.  The catapult system helped change that.
That 6 turning 4 burning plane had so many reliability issues that the crews nicknamed them four turning, three burning, one smoking, and two unaccounted for.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 20, 2022, 08:24:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Nuremberg Trials Begin (1945)
The Nuremberg Trials, which took place in Germany between 1945 and 1949, were a series of trials prosecuting Nazi officials for their participation in World War II and the Holocaust. The first and most famous of these trials, the Trial of the Major War Criminals before the International Military Tribunal, involved 24 of the most important leaders of Nazi Germany, 12 of whom were sentenced to death for crimes against humanity and other offenses.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2022, 08:32:04 AM
That 6 turning 4 burning plane had so many reliability issues that the crews nicknamed them four turning, three burning, one smoking, and two unaccounted for.
My buddy flew in French Lockheed Constellations which he described as the best three engined aircraft ever made.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2022, 08:55:21 AM
College football, in general, especially yesterday, we seem to have a Saturday like that every year.

Teams ranked in the AP that lost:

5
10
13
14
16
20
22
24

I probably missed one.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2022, 08:32:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/H6CyW7F.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2022, 08:33:17 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Verrazano-Narrows Bridge Opens (1964)
The Verrazano-Narrows Bridge connects the boroughs of Staten Island and Brooklyn in New York City. From the time of its completion until 1981, it was the largest suspension bridge in the world, with a span of 4,260 feet (1,298 m). Designed by engineer Othmar Ammann, a noted authority on bridges, it furnished a critical link in the regional highway system and is widely known today as the starting point for the New York City Marathon.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2022, 08:43:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/sMI2PJV.png)

Known affectionately as the “Mouth of the South, he created a TV and sports empire that dramatically altered the media landscape.
Robert Edward “Ted” Turner was born in Cincinnati in 1938. When he was nine, his family moved to Savannah. Turner took over his father’s billboard company after his father’s suicide and began expanding the business. He moved to Atlanta and bought a small UHF station that played cartoons and old movies. Then, needing programming, Turner bought the Atlanta Braves, broadcasting their games, and not just locally. Using satellites, he beamed the Braves across the country. The “superstation” was born.
Turner launched CNN in 1980, the first 24-hour all-news network, followed by a host of other cable operations. He matched his business enterprise with a flamboyant personality that kept him in the news, particularly winning the America’s Cup in 1977 and his $1 billion gift to the United Nations, the single largest donation by a private individual in history.
The man who singlehandedly reshaped the communications universe in the 20th century was born on November 19, 1938, Today in Georgia History.


His daughter had a condo in our building.  Supposedly it's up for sale, or nearly so, but isn't on the market yet.  We toured it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2022, 11:15:24 AM
Interestingly, the equation E=mc2 does not appear in Einstein’s fourth paper, which was titled Does the Inertia of a Body Depend Upon Its Energy-Content? (https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/www/) That’s because Einstein used V to mean the speed of light in a vacuum and L to mean the energy lost by a body in the form of radiation.
So, in his paper, E=mc2 was not originally written as a formula but as a sentence in German that said (translated into English):
Quote
… if a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass diminishes by L/V2.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2022, 12:37:29 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/news/the-day-the-music-died/vi-AA14lb1L?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=cfd252275c6e417aa58d27b183d47e86

On October 24th, 1971, American singer-songwriter Don McLean released iconic song “American Pie”. Throughout the song, McLean repeatedly refers back to “the day the music died”. That day refers to February 3rd, 1959, when 3 great young rock n’ roll artists died in an airplane crash near Clear Lake, Iowa.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 21, 2022, 12:45:27 PM
Damn alot of talent on such a little plane 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2022, 02:32:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ACEnXxT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2022, 02:40:02 PM
not a lot of NFL games played there except for the Manning Bros
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2022, 02:40:43 PM
Some clipboards kept clean ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 21, 2022, 02:49:34 PM
Zeier was drafted by Belichick in Cleveland where he had a cup of coffee before the franchise moved
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2022, 08:24:20 AM
"The Pythagoreans, as they are called, devoted themselves to mathematics; they were the first to advance this study, and having been brought up in it they thought its principles were the principles of all things." - Aristotle
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2022, 08:33:08 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

President John F. Kennedy Assassinated (1963)
The assassination of John F. Kennedy while he was riding in a presidential motorcade in Dallas, Texas, was a seminal event in American history. The US government's subsequent investigation—dubbed the "Warren Commission"—concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald was the culprit, but the assassination is still widely debated, and many people doubt that Oswald acted alone. Oswald's murder just two days later, while in police custody, further fueled conspiracy theories. Who was the "Babushka Lady"?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2022, 08:39:33 AM
The Babushka Lady is an unidentified woman present during the 1963 assassination of US President John F. Kennedy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination) who might have photographed or filmed the events that occurred in Dallas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas)'s Dealey Plaza (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dealey_Plaza) at the time President John F. Kennedy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy) was shot. Her nickname arose from the headscarf (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headscarf) she wore, which was similar to scarves worn by elderly Russian women (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Russia) (бабушка (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/babushka) – babushka – literally means "grandmother" or "old woman" in Russian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language)).
The Babushka Lady was seen to be holding a camera by eyewitnesses and was also seen in film accounts of the assassination.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-2) She was observed standing on the grass between Elm and Main streets, standing amongst onlookers in front of the Dallas County Building, and is visible in the Zapruder film (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapruder_film) as well as in the films of Orville Nix (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orville_Nix),[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-3) Marie Muchmore (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Muchmore), and Mark Bell[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-4) (44 minutes and 47 seconds into the Bell film: even though the shooting had already taken place and most of her surrounding witnesses took cover, she can be seen still standing with the camera at her face). After the shooting, she crossed Elm Street and joined the crowd that went up the grassy knoll (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grassy_knoll). She is last seen in photographs walking east on Elm Street. Neither she, nor the film she may have taken, have ever been positively identified. Her first appearance on film chronologically is on the sidewalk in front of the Dallas County Building - visible in an image as being on JFK's right. She would have crossed Houston Street and onto Dealey Plaza in order to be visible in the Dealey Plaza images. This may imply that the images show two different women of similar appearance however it is plausible that once the motorcade passed by she was able to cross the street to catch a second motorcade drive past on Dealey Plaza where she would be on JFK's left.



Beverly Oliver's claim[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Babushka_Lady&action=edit&section=1)]
In 1970, a woman named Beverly Oliver told conspiracy researcher Gary Shaw at a church revival meeting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revival_meeting) in Joshua, Texas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua,_Texas), that she was the Babushka Lady.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-Bugliosi-5) Oliver stated that she filmed the assassination with a Super 8 film Yashica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yashica) and that she turned the undeveloped film over to two men who identified themselves to her as FBI agents.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-Bugliosi-5) According to Oliver, she obtained no receipt from the men, who told her that they would return the film to her within ten days. She did not follow up with an inquiry.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-Bugliosi-5) She reiterated her claims in the 1988 documentary The Men Who Killed Kennedy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Killed_Kennedy).[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-Bugliosi-5) According to Vincent Bugliosi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Bugliosi), Oliver "has never proved to most people's satisfaction that she was in Dealey Plaza that day."[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-Bugliosi-5) Confronted with the fact that the Yashica Super-8 camera was not made until 1969, she stated that she received the "experimental" camera from a friend and was not even sure the manufacturer's name was on it.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-Bugliosi-5)
Beverly Oliver's claims were the basis for a scene in Oliver Stone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Stone)'s 1991 film JFK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK_(film)), in which a character named "Beverly" meets Jim Garrison (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Garrison) in a Dallas nightclub.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-Stone-6) Played by Lolita Davidovich (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita_Davidovich), she is depicted in the director's cut (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director's_cut) as wearing a headscarf at Dealey Plaza and speaking of having given the film she shot to two men claiming to be FBI agents.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2022, 09:12:50 PM
https://youtu.be/eB9am3HGQs0
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2022, 07:40:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First episode of Doctor Who Debuts on BBC (1963)
This long-running British science-fiction program about a time-traveling adventurer known only as "the Doctor" has, over the years, gained an international cult following that spans generations. The original series ran for 26 seasons, going off the air at the end of 1989. A modestly successful Doctor Who TV movie in 1996 was followed in 2005 by the revival of the series. Over the years, 12 different actors have played "the Doctor,"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 25, 2022, 08:34:03 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of Montgisard (1177)
The Kingdom of Jerusalem—a feudal state created by the leaders of the First Crusade in the areas they had wrested from the Muslims in Syria and Palestine—came under attack in the Battle of Montgisard. Although heavily outnumbered, sickly king Baldwin IV and his troops defeated renowned Kurdish military general Saladin by surprising his army en route. The kingdom enjoyed a brief truce before Saladin renewed his attacks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 27, 2022, 09:29:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Scuttling of the French fleet in Toulon (1942)
When Nazi Germany occupied northern and western France in 1940, the coastal city of Toulon fell under Vichy jurisdiction in the so-called unoccupied zone in the south. The center of French naval power since the 19th century, Toulon housed much of the French fleet. When, in 1942, Germany finally occupied all of France and Toulon's capture appeared imminent, the French scuttled much of the fleet rather than allow the vessels to fall into German hands.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2022, 09:12:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
First Serving Female British MP Elected (1919)
American-born Nancy Witcher Astor, or Viscountess Astor, was the second woman elected to the British Parliament's House of Commons and the first to actually serve. She concentrated on women's issues, temperance, and child welfare and was reelected many times, serving until 1945. Astor attracted a great deal of attention, much of it for her caustic and witty comments. She reportedly once said to Winston Churchill, "If you were my husband, I'd poison your tea!"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 28, 2022, 05:01:12 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
First Serving Female British MP Elected (1919)
She reportedly once said to Winston Churchill, "If you were my husband, I'd poison your tea!"
Churchill's reported response is even better. Supposedly he replied, "Madam, if you were my wife I'd drink it."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2022, 09:12:56 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Sir Winston Churchill (1874)
Churchill was prime minister of the UK during World War II and led the country through both its darkest and finest hours. He was a writer, artist, legislator, soldier, and one of the most influential leaders in modern history. After being appointed prime minister in 1940, he forged a strong alliance with the US and an uneasy one with the USSR. These alliances were two key factors in the defeat of the Axis Powers. A prolific painter, Churchill exhibited his art under what pseudonym?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 30, 2022, 09:40:21 AM
Churchill's reported response is even better. Supposedly he replied, "Madam, if you were my wife I'd drink it."
 Churchill by Himself, (https://www.amazon.com/dp/1586486381/?tag=richmlang-20) page 573:
Bessie Braddock: “Winston, you are drunk, and what’s more you are disgustingly drunk.”
Winston Churchill: “ But tomorrow I shall be sober and you will still be disgustingly ugly.” —1946.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 10:23:55 AM
November 29, 2022 — Mauna Loa eruption map | U.S. Geological Survey (usgs.gov) (https://www.usgs.gov/maps/november-29-2022-mauna-loa-eruption-map)

This is the "big" volcano in Hawaii, and by big, I do not exaggerate.  On clear days one can sort of appreciate it's massive size.  It looks improbable, and now it's erupting again after nearly 40 years.  The "other" one that erupts more or less constantly is Kilauea, which is located in Volcano National Park.

The current lava flow is threatening to breach the Saddle Road which crosses the middle of the island and is pretty crucial.  

Nobody lives anywhere near this current flow, at this point.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 10:28:01 AM
Mauna Loa Eruption, A Closer Look (Nov. 29, 2022) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCUpufOX0VE)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2022, 10:37:26 AM
I heard that both volcanos are erupting currently

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 12:13:05 PM
They are, it's unusual as Mauna Loa has been quiet for 38 years.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 12:30:26 PM
Two volcanoes erupt in Mauna Loa -CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/video/rare-dual-eruption-from-neighboring-volcanoes-mauna-loa-and-kilauea-on-hawaiis-big-island/#x)

Neat videos.  I've never seen lava fountains like that, the eruptions are usually slow moving and minorish.

We once were able to get within feet of a flow and have seen one dropping into the ocean from a helo.  If the Saddle Road is cut, it'll be annoying.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2022, 12:37:24 PM
traffic and transportation problems in paradise

F it dude, let's go surfin
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 12:39:40 PM
There is almost no surfing on the Big Island.  The shorelines are nearly all craggy and lava shelves.  There are some sand beaches but with lava outcroppings all over, especially on the NE part.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2022, 12:40:24 PM
bummer, dude
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 12:41:50 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/W8MwJyk.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/35NqMQ1.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 12:43:02 PM
You can see the slope of Mauna Loa in the background slowly rising up to nearly 14,000 feet.  No surfing.

(https://i.imgur.com/YLmKZgr.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 12:45:08 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lNxwWUP.jpg)

Lobby waldorf Astoria on Maui.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 30, 2022, 03:07:47 PM
bummer, dude
OK Spicoli
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 03:16:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pa2rzOz.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 30, 2022, 03:36:06 PM
https://youtu.be/f9Gb4PakFTU
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 03:56:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MPSB9Kp.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 01, 2022, 08:11:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Rosa Parks Refuses to Give Up Her Seat (1955)
Dubbed the "Mother of the Modern-Day Civil Rights Movement" by the US Congress, Rosa Parks was an African-American civil rights activist who became famous in 1955 for refusing to vacate her seat on a municipal bus for a white man. This act of civil disobedience sparked the Montgomery Bus Boycott, which launched Martin Luther King, Jr., into prominence and became one of the largest and most successful movements against racial segregation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2022, 11:03:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/wPtrrkR.png)

1957
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2022, 03:58:01 PM
Could building set to be bulldozed have 'Gone With the Wind' author ties? | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/gone-with-wind-margaret-mitchell-midtown-building-demolition-author-ties)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 01, 2022, 07:12:59 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/317729215_10222770728999349_578867204360189583_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=BTY4QzIqQSkAX9_aSo0&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAj8MrKyxnrlkQATLLCWNdORTLmjJ4EZyWmBYEnSJay3g&oe=638E3E51)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2022, 08:05:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/NiwffxH.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2022, 11:10:30 AM
27 November 1868, a detachment of US troops under the command of General Custer ignored orders to kill only warriors and massacred 103 sleeping Cheyenne in the so-called "Battle of the Washita".

Cheyenne chief Black Kettle had requested permission from US colonial authorities to move his village near to Fort Cobb for protection. The request was refused, but Black Kettle was reassured that if his men stayed in their villages, they would not be attacked. Just before dawn the following morning, while most of the village were asleep, the US Army attacked the village. General Custer had ordered his troops "to destroy their villages and ponies, to kill or hang all warriors, and bring back all women and children."

Black Kettle awoke when the attack began and lifted his hand to give a gesture of peace. He and his wife were shot dead, and their bodies ridden over by horses.

In just a few minutes, the village was destroyed and hundreds of horses were shot. Rather than separate warriors, the soldiers massacred 103 people, only 11 of whom were warriors, the others being women and children. They also took 53 women and children hostage.

Hearing gunfire, a detachment of Arapaho warriors came to the aid of the Cheyenne, as did some Kiowa and Nʉmʉnʉʉ (Comanche). These fighters encountered and wiped out a detachment of 17 US troops.

At this point the US army withdrew with its captives. Custer was later killed by Cheyenne, Arapaho and Lakota warriors in the Battle of the Little Bighorn."

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/317820105_10222434321509912_3753882380348830944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ky1pBPbjNIUAX_iQsOh&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBgvbKww89o8R57-jYY6nJ_o7HjRpXdVSE7uyRnzXfa_Q&oe=638F2AE7)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2022, 04:41:57 PM
November 27, 1971: On this day 51 years ago, University of Florida defensive players purposely dropped to the ground and allowed Miami quarterback John Hornibrook to score. With the Gators leading 45-8 with only a few minutes play, the ploy allowed Florida quarterback John Reaves enough time to break Jim Plunkett's then NCAA career passing yardage record. Known as the Gator Flop, it remains one of the most infamous moments at the Orange Bowl. After the game an angry Miami coach Fran Curci refused to shake hands with Florida's Doug Dickey. Curci would later say Miami would win a national championship before the Gators ever win the SEC. He would be proven right.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZmtJkBJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2022, 09:08:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Worst Industrial Disaster in History (1984)
The accidental release of methyl isocyanate gas from the Union Carbide pesticide plant in Bhopal, India, immediately killed at least 3,000 people and ultimately caused 15,000 to 20,000 deaths. Another 500,000 survivors have since suffered ailments related to the disaster. The company paid $470 million in compensation to the victims, and several former employees were convicted of death by negligence in relation to the incident. Yet, it maintains that it is not to blame for the gas release.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2022, 06:38:26 PM
In the mid-1950s, Hiller Aircraft constructed a series of flying platforms for an Army-Navy program. The pilot simply leaned in the desired direction and the platform would follow. Hiller Aircraft incorporated twin counter-rotating propellers in a round housing (ducted fan). Sixty percent of the platform’s lift was generated by thrust from the counter-rotating propellers and 40% was generated by air moving over the ducted fan's leading edge

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/318115134_202423425631841_4697378510641523400_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=rI9Ub-YjktUAX9Ph6Ky&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAY4JPZcjNTGZiJZ0hGmeN3-bqwhLLgZ9fopIRLBcEpqA&oe=6391C6B1)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 03, 2022, 06:52:18 PM
This week in 2005 utee 94 created the Beer Thread,good work 94 - you get a Yuengling
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 04, 2022, 03:16:29 PM
The Trial of the Century That Wasn't | History| Smithsonian Magazine (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/trial-century-jefferson-davis-treason-180962776/)

Davis wasn’t always famous for disunion. As a U.S. senator and secretary of war in the 1850s, he was the champion of expanding the Capitol into the majestic meeting place Congress has today. At the same time, he was a resolute advocate for states’ rights. In 1867, he was prepared to argue that he did not betray the country because once Mississippi left it, he was no longer a U.S. citizen. “Everybody thought it was going to be the test case on the legality of secession,” says Cynthia Nicoletti, a University of Virginia legal scholar whose book Secession on Trial (https://www.amazon.com/Secession-Trial-Treason-Prosecution-Jefferson/dp/1108415520/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1491846013&sr=8-1&linkCode=ll1&tag=smithsonianco-20&linkId=71df8757693d480dac9af63e9ce79c70) is due out in August. Serious people believed he had a chance of winning.

President Andrew Johnson took no chances. On Christmas Day 1868, he pardoned former Confederates from the crime of treason, thwarting vengeful Northerners, Lost Cause Southerners and headline writers all over the country.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on December 05, 2022, 10:41:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Worst Industrial Disaster in History (1984)
The accidental release of methyl isocyanate gas from the Union Carbide pesticide plant in Bhopal, India, immediately killed at least 3,000 people and ultimately caused 15,000 to 20,000 deaths. Another 500,000 survivors have since suffered ailments related to the disaster. The company paid $470 million in compensation to the victims, and several former employees were convicted of death by negligence in relation to the incident. Yet, it maintains that it is not to blame for the gas release.
It's complicated.  The company I work for owns the remnants of UCC.  
That plant was 51% owned by UCC and 49% UCC-India.  So it was a JV.  If you believe company accounts, the way the poisonous  cloud was generated and released was done very deliberately.  Added to that, most of the deaths occurred in "shanty town" houses next to the plant.  Essentially a make-shift camp of poorly constructed, open air houses.  

Either way, a bad disaster.  We used to get emails about protesters etc but it seems to have died down.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 05, 2022, 10:53:44 AM
This week in 2005 utee 94 created the Beer Thread,good work 94 - you get a Yuengling
word
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 05, 2022, 10:54:41 AM
In the mid-1950s, Hiller Aircraft constructed a series of flying platforms for an Army-Navy program. The pilot simply leaned in the desired direction and the platform would follow. Hiller Aircraft incorporated twin counter-rotating propellers in a round housing (ducted fan). Sixty percent of the platform’s lift was generated by thrust from the counter-rotating propellers and 40% was generated by air moving over the ducted fan's leading edge

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/318115134_202423425631841_4697378510641523400_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=rI9Ub-YjktUAX9Ph6Ky&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAY4JPZcjNTGZiJZ0hGmeN3-bqwhLLgZ9fopIRLBcEpqA&oe=6391C6B1)

And yet we STILL don't have flying cars.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 05, 2022, 10:58:58 AM
A buck private prolly had to tell the corporate brainiacs who created that thing that's it's easier to hit than a clay pidgeon.Wonder how much research and development coin went into that before Biff had to point that out
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 05, 2022, 11:11:49 AM
Any real development of flying cars would require a LOT of automation and  traffic/air space deconfliction unless you required every driver to get a pilot's license.

That could happen fairly soon, but I think it would always be better to have a plane or helo AND a separate car.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 05, 2022, 11:52:14 AM
No only that they'd have to be all electric right? Just hope they don't catch on fire like the cars
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 05, 2022, 12:26:10 PM
Wouldn't HAVE to be, I think.  As others have noted, to fly you have to use power to overcome gravity.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 05, 2022, 12:31:11 PM
Well we can send up John Kerry,Pelosi,Hunter they're all on board with green or is it making green?Anyway send them up
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 05, 2022, 02:12:55 PM
A buck private prolly had to tell the corporate brainiacs who created that thing that's it's easier to hit than a clay pidgeon.Wonder how much research and development coin went into that before Biff had to point that out
did ya ever hunt clay pigeons with a rifle?

Or see many scatter guns carried by the infantry?

no, my real name isn't Biff
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 05, 2022, 05:35:37 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Sergei Eisenstein's Battleship Potemkin Debuts in US (1926)
Eisenstein's Battleship Potemkin, based on the real-life 1905 uprising aboard the Russian battleship Potemkin, is a seminal film in cinematic history. Eisenstein deliberately wrote the silent film as a revolutionary propaganda piece and used it to test his theories of "montage," a form of movie collage consisting of a series of short shots edited into a sequence intended to effect emotional or intellectual responses.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 05, 2022, 08:39:12 PM
did ya ever hunt clay pigeons with a rifle?

Or see many scatter guns carried by the infantry?

no, my real name isn't Biff
Maybe in your army that yahoo wouldn't get hit but i know plenty good ole boys would make short work of that tub
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 06:14:26 AM
He'd be very vulnerable to rifle fire as well, very.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 06, 2022, 08:30:33 AM
https://youtu.be/I1_W2_nKCvM
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2022, 11:44:59 AM
He'd be very vulnerable to rifle fire as well, very.
well, ya gotta zig zag

and it helps if you return fire
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2022, 11:45:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
13th Amendment to US Constitution is Ratified (1865)
The 13th Amendment to the US Constitution completed the process of abolishing slavery, which had begun with Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation of 1863. Between February 1 and December 6 of 1865, the required three-fourths of the existing states—then 27 of 36—ratified the proposed amendment, making it law. Slavery offenses were still being prosecuted as recently as 1947.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 06, 2022, 11:50:41 AM
well, ya gotta zig zag

and it helps if you return fire
Who is steering and how do you get a good shot off if the wind is blowing? That POS should never have gotten past the discussion stage
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 12:07:29 PM
Who is steering and how do you get a good shot off if the wind is blowing? That POS should never have gotten past the discussion stage
I'd guess it was entirely exploratory and little was spent on it.  It may have been proposed for scouting more than shooting, like a balloon.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 06, 2022, 01:46:51 PM
https://youtu.be/I1_W2_nKCvM
Such a fascinating case. I wonder if we'll ever definitively find out what happened to DB Cooper.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 01:49:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wrKtpoa.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2022, 02:12:21 PM
how many types of beer did pabst brew back in the good ol daze?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 02:25:37 PM
I pondered that for a long time and decided it was 5.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 06, 2022, 02:49:29 PM
Such a fascinating case. I wonder if we'll ever definitively find out what happened to DB Cooper.
Watch that video and part one it's long believed they nailed it but the Bureau could never admit it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 06, 2022, 02:50:10 PM
I pondered that for a long time and decided it was 5.
Not how many you ever drank
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2022, 08:29:35 AM
81 years ago this morning about 300 Japanese planes from six Japanese carriers bombed the American Naval base at Pearl Harbor and nearby airfields. 

About 2,000 Americans died in the attack, most of them aboard the Battleship Arizona. Arizona suffered a catastrophic magazine explosion when a converted artillery shell was dropped onto it and penetrated the deck armor over the forward magazine. 

Four of the carriers involved in the attack were sunk off Midway six months later. A fifth survived until the Battle of the Philippine Sea in June, 1944 (aka Great Marianis Turkey Shoot) where it was torpedoed and sunk by an American submarine (USS Cavalla). 

The final surviving carrier from the attack survived until the Battle of Leyte Gulf in October, 1944 where it was sunk by American Carrier aircraft. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2022, 09:47:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/GSBglLA.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2022, 10:34:58 PM
I only personally knew one Pearl Harbor survivor. He was a 17 year old sailor aboard the USS California when it was sunk on December 7, 1941.

When abandon ship was ordered he had to swim under burning oil to Ford Island. Then he was transferred to a Cruiser and sunk again at Coral Sea. By the time he turned 18 he'd been at war for six months and sunk twice. 

By the time I knew him he was about 75 years old and looked like "grandpa". The funny thing was that he still sounded like an 18 year old in the Navy. Seriously, whoever came up with the expression "swore like a sailor" must have known him.  

Anyway, the History Guy's video for today was about the Medalvof Honor recipients from the California so I watched it, wondering if the guy I knew had known any of them. 

One of them was Robert Scott. He grew up in Massillon, Ohio and played football at Massillon Washington HS then attended the Ohio State University before joining the Navy. On December 7, 1941 he was in charge of an air compressor that supplied compressed air needed to operate the 5" antiaircraft guns. 

When the water in his compartment reached about waist deep everyone else left but he said he was going to stay to keep the guns firing. His Medal of Honor (like most) was awarded posthumously. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_R._Scott
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 08, 2022, 09:12:40 AM
By early 1942, it was determined that Oklahoma could be salvaged and that she was a navigational hazard, having rolled into the harbor's navigational channel. Preparations for righting the overturned hull took under eight months to complete. Air was pumped into interior chambers and improvised airlocks built into the ship, forcing 20,000 tonnes (19,684 long tons; 22,046 short tons) of water out of the ship through the torpedo holes. Twenty-one derricks were attached to the upturned hull; each carried high-tensile steel cables that were connected to hydraulic winching machines ashore. On 28 December, Oklahoma was towed into drydock No. 2, at the Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard. Once in the dock, her main guns, machinery, remaining ammunition, and stores were removed. The severest structural damage on the hull was also repaired to make the ship watertight. US Navy deemed her too old and too heavily damaged to be returned to service. Disaster struck on 17 May, when the ships entered a storm more than 500 miles (800 km) from Hawaii.  The tug Hercules put her searchlight on the former battleship, revealing that she had begun listing heavily. had begun to sink straight down, causing water to swamp the sterns of both tugs. As the battleship sank rapidly, the line from Monarch quickly played out, releasing the tug. However, Hercules' cables did not release until the last possible moment, leaving her tossing and pitching above the grave of the sunken Oklahoma. The battleship's exact location is unknown.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 09, 2022, 09:13:41 AM
On today’s date 138 years ago, Wednesday, December 6, 1884, construction of the Washington Monument was completed when the 100-ounce aluminium apex was set in place atop the pyramidion stone of the monumental obelisk.
☞The aluminium apex of Washington Monument had been cast at Col. Frishmuth’s Foundry at the corner of Rush & Amber Streets in Philadelphia) just 24 days earlier on Wednesday, November 12, 1884.
☞In 1884, aluminium was a rare & precious metal, more expensive than gold or platinum, but that changed in 1888, when noted American inventor Charles Martin Hall (1863-1914), together with noted American metallurgist, industrialist, & financier Alfred E. Hunt (1855-1899), founded the Pittsburgh Reduction Company -- now known as the Aluminum Company of America (ALCOA). By 1914, using his new electric refining process, Charles Martin Hall had brought the cost of aluminium down to 18 cents per pound & it was no longer considered a precious metal.
☞In 1986, Frishmuth’s Foundry at the corner of Rush & Amber Streets in Philadelphia (still producing commercial castings) was declared a historical landmark by ASM International (formerly known as the American Society for Metals). A cast-aluminium plaque affixed to the building bears the citation “Colonel Frishmuth’s Foundry has been designated an Historical Landmark.... The site of the first commercial aluminum-reduction facility in the United States of America & the only producer of aluminum from its ore until the late 1880s.”

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2022, 09:49:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Nobel Prizes Awarded (1901)
The Nobel Prizes, named after Swedish chemist Alfred Nobel, are awarded annually to those who have made outstanding contributions to the fields of physics, chemistry, physiology or medicine, literature, peace, and—since 1969—economic sciences. Nobel is said to have been inspired to create the prizes after reading his own prematurely published obituary, which condemned his invention of dynamite and referred to him as "the merchant of death."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 08:55:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Q1Exy4O.png)

1913
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 11, 2022, 09:37:21 AM
What the hell is that?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 09:55:13 AM
A man, a plan, a canal, Panama.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2022, 10:13:09 AM
That's where they kept King Kong, duh.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 10:58:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nZXoWzu.png)

1210 AD.  1492 is also famous for the year in which Spain was recovered and the last Muslims were driven out (to be followed by Jews being driven out as well).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 11:01:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yIGbsMt.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2022, 11:22:50 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
King Louis XVI of France Tried for Treason (1792)
Louis XVI was King of France from 1774 to 1792. Shy, dull, and corpulent, he proved unsuited to the task of navigating the complex social and political conflict smoldering in France. His failure to resolve the country's enormous debt touched off a chain of events that culminated in the outbreak of revolution. In 1792, the monarchy was abolished and Louis tried for treason. Found guilty, he was guillotined on January 21, 1793.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2022, 09:08:21 AM
SITE OF THE DAY:
The Ottoman History Podcast
The Ottoman History Podcast has become one of the largest digital resources for academic discussion of the Ottoman Empire and the modern Middle East. Since 2011, hundreds of contributors have helped shape this unique historical treasure.


https://www.ottomanhistorypodcast.com/ (https://www.ottomanhistorypodcast.com/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2022, 10:37:16 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US Supreme Court Decides Bush v. Gore (2000)
The Supreme Court's decision in this case ended Florida's statewide recount of ballots cast in the 2000 US presidential election and allowed its Secretary of State to certify Republican candidate George W. Bush as the winner of Florida's 25 electoral votes. Despite the fact that Democratic candidate Al Gore had won the popular vote, the decision in Florida gave Bush a majority of the Electoral College and with it the US presidency.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2022, 11:59:43 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/szqIW50.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2022, 12:11:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/kNXKRLA.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2022, 07:32:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/0rrQYob.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 13, 2022, 08:47:45 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Battle of the River Plate (1939)
In the early months of World War II, the German pocket battleship Admiral Graf Spee had been seeking out and sinking British merchant ships, a practice known as commerce raiding. The British navy tracked down the German ship and engaged it near the River Plate, in what was the first major naval engagement of the war. Outgunned, the Germans sailed for Montevideo in the hopes of making repairs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 13, 2022, 05:58:52 PM
“Thru These Portals Pass the Army’s Best Horsemen,” reads a sign above a barracks doorway at Fort Robinson, Nebraska. But one doesn’t train a horse without some, ah, awkward moments along the way.
To read more about the Fort's equine history this National Day of the Horse, follow the link below.
“Thru These Portals Pass the Army’s Best Horsemen,” reads a sign above a barracks doorway at Fort Robinson, Nebraska. But one doesn’t train a horse without some, ah, awkward moments along the way. To read more about the Fort's equine history this National Day of the Horse, follow the link below. https://history.nebraska.gov/the-armys-best-horsemen-1940/ (http://“Thru These Portals Pass the Army’s Best Horsemen,” reads a sign above a barracks doorway at Fort Robinson, Nebraska. But one doesn’t train a horse without some, ah, awkward moments along the way. To read more about the Fort's equine history this National Day of the Horse, follow the link below. https://history.nebraska.gov/the-armys-best-horsemen-1940/)




(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/318312508_10159115557773549_3017255012381136668_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Fxi7PCTIamMAX8wrzel&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDTwD3M79U7yw6ZIk70qzaY8k1cExiKfS7ST6qwOfBQcw&oe=639DE980)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2022, 08:45:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Max Planck's Quantum Theory Is Born (1900)
Considered the inventor of quantum theory, Max Planck shocked the science world by showing that atoms emit or absorb energy in bundles, or quanta, not in a continuous stream as taught by Newtonian physics. This insight, along with subsequent developments by Einstein, Bohr, and others, established the revolutionary quantum theory of modern physics and earned Planck the 1918 Nobel Prize in Physics.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2022, 08:48:16 AM
(https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/c6c0386dc6d9530519404f95570fcc8548ed2326)

where h is Planck's constant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck's_constant), also known as Planck's action quantum (introduced already in 1899), and ν is the frequency of the radiation. Note that the elementary units of energy discussed here are represented by hν and not simply by ν. Physicists now call these quanta photons, and a photon of frequency ν will have its own specific and unique energy. The total energy at that frequency is then equal to hν multiplied by the number of photons at that frequency.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2022, 10:32:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rP6DtSV.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 14, 2022, 01:29:05 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Max Planck's Quantum Theory Is Born (1900)
Considered the inventor of quantum theory, Max Planck shocked the science world by showing that atoms emit or absorb energy in bundles, or quanta, not in a continuous stream as taught by Newtonian physics. This insight, along with subsequent developments by Einstein, Bohr, and others, established the revolutionary quantum theory of modern physics and earned Planck the 1918 Nobel Prize in Physics.

Planck time and Planck length is enough to make your head explode.   

Quirky thing about the two pillars of modern physics, general relativity and quantum field theory, is that they're both empirically true verified (at least to a certain extent) and they also don't jive with each other.  I think the reconciliation of the two is the elusive TOE "they" are searching for and has something to do with unifying the 4 fundamental forces.  

In my lifetime I've "seen" the Higgs-Boson particle confirmed, or detected, or however is proper to term that, CMB detected to confirm early inflation of the universe, and Fermat's last theorem which confused mathematicians for a couple hundred years figured out.  All of which I thought was super cool.  I don't know how likely it is, but it'd be cool if physicists figured out how to reconcile the two models before my time is up.  Not that I'd understand it much or that it would change my daily life.  It'd just be cool.   
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2022, 02:38:16 PM
On December 10, 1917, Boys Town, originally named Father Flanagan's Boys' Home was founded at 25th and Dodge Streets in Omaha, Nebraska by Father Flanagan.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/318243691_10159115521033549_3554581877596053424_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=cKNfoQJfJvkAX9NK9n7&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfB-ni8LFohVB4FEoUZ6Y5qCCwotfqmE2Hor8fcHMOe4pg&oe=639E3F69)

Boys Town was founded as a home and school for homeless, abandoned, neglected or otherwise underprivileged boys, regardless of color or creed, by Father Edward J. Flanagan (1886-1948) on December 10, 1917. The first Father Flanagan’s Boy’s Home at 25th and Dodge Streets in Omaha, Nebraska, sheltered five boys...three from the Juvenile Court and two homeless newsboys.

On October 17, 1921, Father Flanagan brought Overlook Farm outside Omaha, nucleus of today’s Boys Town campus. From here thousands of Boys Town residents have gone on to become productive citizens in all walks of life.

The philosophy of Boys Town is summarized in Father Flanagan’s words: “Our young people are our greatest wealth. Give them a chance and they will give a good account of themselves. No boy wants to be bad. There is only bad environment, bad training, bad example, bad thinking.” In 1972 Boys Town expanded its services by creating the Boys Town Institute to help communicatively handicapped boys and girls, and the Boys Town Center to seek root causes of major youth problems that threaten young people everywhere.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2022, 12:54:58 PM
ANCIENT CIVILIZATION OF TINY HUMANS HIDDEN IN WYOMING?

The San Pedro Mountains mummy (known informally as Pedro) is a mummy discovered in Wyoming in the 1930s. Due to its unusual physical features and small stature, it has become a part of American folklore as well as ufology and cryptozoology. Mainstream scientific opinion considers "Pedro" to be the mummy of a malformed infant that was born with anencephaly.


https://youtu.be/hXeOx0cBoh8
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2022, 03:47:20 PM
The greatest college football player ever? Bear Bryant said he was. Even if he did play for Georgia.

Charley Trippi was born in Pennsylvania in 1920. The young athlete caught the attention of a former Georgia Bulldog who ran a Coca-Cola bottling plant near Trippi’s home. He offered Trippi a scholarship to play football at UGA, where Trippi and Frank Sinkwich formed one of college football’s most fearsome backfields.
The Bulldogs went undefeated in 1941 and won the Orange Bowl. The next year Sinkwich and Trippi led Georgia to the SEC championship and a Rose Bowl victory over UCLA. Trippi took Most Valuable Player honors. Then he took two and a half years to serve in the Army Air Corps in World War II, before he returned to Georgia to lead the Bulldogs to another SEC championship, and won the Maxwell Award as National Player of the Year.
Trippi went on to a stellar career in the NFL. Elected to both the College and Pro Football Halls of Fame, this Bulldog gridiron legend was born in Pennsylvania on December 14, 1920, Today in Georgia History.


(https://i.imgur.com/hmTxdSB.png)

He just recently passed away at 99.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2022, 02:23:50 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of the Bulge Begins (1944)
This major German counter-offensive on the Western Front during World War II was the largest and bloodiest battle fought by the US Army during the war. Taking advantage of foggy weather, German forces attacked the thinly held American front in the Belgian Ardennes sector, catching the Allied forces unprepared. The Germans penetrated deep into the Allied lines. However, an American force held out at Bastogne, and the arrival of reinforcements turned the tide.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2022, 06:22:05 PM
First Special Service Force: The ‘Devil’s Brigade’ That Struck Fear Into the Germans
The various Special Forces groups of the Second World War played a major role in the evolution of elite units in the decades to follow. This is particularly true of the First Special Service Force (1SSF) - also known as the "Devil's Brigade" - who operated in the European Theater between 1942-44.

A combined Canadian-American unit, its formation influenced the evolution of commando groups in both nations: the Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR), Canadian Special Operations Forces Command (CANSOFCOM) and the 1st Special Forces Command (Airborne), US Army Special Operations Command (USASOC). Both claim to be direct descendants of the First Special Service Force.

Although it only operated for approximately two years, this early Special Forces unit had a profound impact on the war.


The creation of the First Special Service Force can be credited to Geoffrey Pyke of the British Combined Operations Command, who wanted to put together a curated, elite force that could operate in winter conditions and behind enemy lines in Norway, Romania and the Italian Alps. He proposed Project Plough in March 1942, with the goal of establishing a commando base on a glacial plateau in Norway.

Pyke's idea was well-received. However, due to the already high demand on the resources of the Combined Operations Headquarters, officials offered the proposal to the United States. Gen. George Marshall, Chief of Staff of the US Army, readily accepted.

For the project, the US government wanted a special vehicle - a tank with spiked treads - to be developed, so the men within this specialized unit could move quickly through the snowy regions where they'd be deployed. This resulted in the production of the M29 Weasel, a tracked vehicle that could traverse through a variety of conditions (snow, desert and mud) and tow loads over terrain that traditional wheeled vehicles couldn't.


Despite the Americans accepting responsibility for Project Plough, there was one person who was unhappy about the idea: Maj. Robert T. Frederick of the Operations Division of the US General Staff. He thought the proposed unit wouldn't do enough damage to warrant its use on the frontlines. He was also concerned that:

The US Army had established unrealistic objectives for the size of the force.
A small force would be easily outnumbered.
There was no way to get the troops out once their mission was complete; all equipment would have to be abandoned.
There weren't enough aircraft available to drop the men into Norway.
Aircraft would constantly need to drop supplies for the men.
Despite his objections, Frederick's superiors were unwilling to deviate from the original plan, and, instead, put him in charge of raising and commanding the force, now with the rank of colonel. He wasn't the first to take control of Project Plough. Lt. Col. Howard R. Johnson had been removed from the position after arguing with his superiors over the unit's feasibility.


Robert Frederick quickly took charge. By July 1942, he'd cut Geoffrey Pyke out of the planning for Project Plough and was completing the necessary recruitment for what became the First Special Service Force.

While famously a Canadian-American endeavor, Norwegian commandos were initially supposed to be included, as Norway was among the nations deemed best suited to clandestine winter warfare. However, there was considered to be a lack of suitable Norwegian soldiers, so, instead, the Canadians were put as second in command, while providing half the officers and a third of enlisted men.

Recruits from both countries thought they were joining a parachute unit and were carefully selected. Tom Gilday, the Canadian Army's only ski instructor at the time, was appointed as one of the battalion commanders and told to recruit volunteers. He selected "trappers and hunters, bushmen, farmers' sons, all good individual outdoor types who would know their way around in the woods and in the country and in all kinds of weather conditions."

The Americans posted recruitment letters, looking for "single men, aged 21–35 with three or more years of grammar school. Occupations preferred: rangers, lumberjacks, northwoodsmen, hunters, prospectors, explorers and game wardens." Camps in the west were also scouted for possible recruits.


Due to the tight timeline to get the First Special Service Force into the field, the training period in Helena, Montana was intensive. In fact, volunteers began parachuting after only 48 hours. In addition, they became proficient in weapons and demolition, small unit tactics and underwent rigorous physical training. There was also an emphasis placed on problem-solving, rock climbing, skiing, training in the M29 Weasel and learning how best to adapt to cold climates.

Training also heavily focused on combat and physicality. The men regularly completed 97-km marches, learned how to use enemy weapons, practiced hand-to-hand combat, learned how to partake in amphibious warfare and received extensive ski training from Norwegian instructors until they could ski in formation at the same standard as those in the Norwegian Army.

By the time the 1SSF embarked on its first mission, every member was a qualified parachutist and could allegedly beat the best US Marine Corps units at their own drills.


The First Special Service Force took part in four engagements during the Second World War, totaling 22 battles, never losing a single one. Their first mission was to assist in the invasion of Kiska, as part of the Aleutian Islands Campaign. When they landed, however, they realized the Japanese had already evacuated. They subsequently returned to the US.

Later that year, it was decided that, despite training for this very purpose, the 1SSF wouldn't be sent to Norway. Instead, the unit was sent to Italy in October 1943, under the purview of the US Fifth Army. The men arrived on November 19, 1943 and joined the US 36th Infantry Division. They were tasked with taking the German positions at Monte La Difensa and Monte La Remetanea, controlled by the 104th Panzergrenadier Regiment, as no one else had been able to do so.

Between December 3-6, the 1SSF took Monte La Difensa, with Monte La Remetanea being  captured between December 6-9. By early January 1944, the unit had captured Monte Sambúcaro and Monte Vischiataro. This allowed the 1SSF to earn an impressive reputation, as they'd had accomplished something no other unit had. However, they'd suffered a 77 percent casualty rate in doing so.


The First Special Service Force remained in Italy for their first major offensive, landing on the Anzio beachhead on February 1, 1944 as a replacement for the 1st and 3rd Ranger Battalions, which had suffered severe losses during the Battle of Cisterna. The unit's members were tasked with holding the position and raiding when possible, something they excelled at.

The Germans had a difficult time engaging with the 1SSF and even pulled their units back in the Mussolini Canal sector due to the aggressive nature of their patrols. The continuous night raids also forced the enemy to fortify its position more than planned, with the unit's members sometimes going as deep as 1,500 feet behind the German lines.

The 1SSF made even more of a name for themselves during this time period, particularly among the Germans. They acted as though they were a much larger force than they actually were, a strategic maneuver ordered by Robert Frederick.

The "Black Devils," as they were called by the enemy, carried stickers with their unit patch and the slogan - "the worst is yet to come" - written in German. They stuck these on the bodies of those they killed, as well as on German fortifications. The 1SSF's reputation was so fierce that, prior to engaging with the group, the German soldiers were informed they would be "fighting an elite Canadian-American Force. They are treacherous, unmerciful and clever. You cannot afford to relax."

At Anzio, the 1SSF fought for 99 days before being relieved, only to move on to Monte Arrestino and Rocca Massima. At the beginning of June 1944, they were one of the first Allied units to enter Rome.


The final fight of the First Special Service Force was in France as part of Operation Dragoon. At the beginning of August 1944, the unit captured five fortifications on the island of Port-Cros, after which they were attached to the 1st Airborne Task Force, US Seventh Army to defend the border between France and Italy.

On December 5, 1944, the 1SSF was disbanded in Villeneuve-Loubet, France. The unit consisted of approximately 1,800 men, and was credited with roughly 12,000 German casualties and the capture of around 7,000 enemy prisoners. It also had an attrition rate of over 600 percent. Many of the men, including Canadian Tommy Prince, were honored for their service.

After the 1SSF came to an end, the group's members were redistributed. The Canadians were moved back to their national units (primarily the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion), while the Americans were split between airborne divisions and the newly-formed 474th Infantry Regiment.

Following the war, the lessons learned from the unit were applied to American and Canadian Special Forces, including the US Navy SEALS and US Army's Green Berets. Each year on December 5, the 1SSF is remembered by Special Forces units in both the US and Canada, who perform a pass in review, a parachute jump and hold a formal ball.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2022, 10:05:56 PM
The 3rd MOST LIKED Instagram Post of 2022: Double leg amputee railway signalman, James Wide, photographed working alongside his pet and assistant, Jack Baboon, in Cape Town during the 1880s. James Wide purchased a chacma baboon in 1881 and trained him to push his wheelchair and operate the railway signals under supervision.

Sitting 3rd in the top 15 most popular colorized photos of 2022 is this work by Angelina Karpunina, which received over 36 thousand likes in the year.
Click the Link Below to see the list of the most liked HistoryColored Instagram Posts of 2022, which will be updated daily as the photos are revealed!

https://historycolored.com/.../top-15-most-popular.../ (https://historycolored.com/.../top-15-most-popular.../)


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/319053511_677555910686879_5999851398856298176_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=H16eou8Q-xoAX-7kPLn&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAKpFM928zDdILD4p0j8yzXtS7BrlGeZW2SlhgcETXSpg&oe=63A2FDC5)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:38:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/63uhYLl.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 01:44:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ALVepj1.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 01:47:06 PM
Ol' Jack says "That's groovy baby. That's really groovy you give me a ticket on the next flight out!"
He said, "Ticket on the next flight out?! This is nineteen hundred n' thirteen. Why the Wright brothers haven't even started foolin' around with Kitty Hawk yet"
He said, "Uh ... who's she?"


https://youtu.be/4XFYMjkFYPg
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 01:48:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/63uhYLl.png)
Looks like a giant crying rat.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2022, 09:32:32 AM
Abraham Lincoln is the only president to receive a patent (# 6469). He was the first president to have a beard, at the request from a little girl named Gracie Bedell. The first child to die in the White House was Abraham Lincoln’s 12-year old son, Willie. 


"Perhaps a man's character is like a tree and his reputation like its shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing." - Abraham Lincoln
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2022, 10:17:14 AM
https://youtu.be/4XFYMjkFYPg
nails on a chalkboard for 13 minutes?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2022, 10:47:00 AM
nope, one of my favorites

another classic by Jaime

https://youtu.be/2S_tgHact_4
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2022, 09:35:11 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

President Taft Pardons William H. Van Schaick (1912)
More than 1,000 people died when the General Slocum, a passenger steamship, caught fire in New York's East River in 1904. It was the city's worst loss-of-life disaster until the attacks of September 11, 2001. Van Schaick, the ship's captain, was convicted of negligence and failure to maintain fire safety equipment and received a 10-year sentence. He was paroled after serving 3½ years in prison and later pardoned by President Taft.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2022, 09:45:29 AM
Well he should have know but still sounds like a fall guy for the cororate creeps
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 20, 2022, 09:38:34 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Samuel Mudd (1833)
Mudd was the physician who set the broken leg of John Wilkes Booth, Abraham Lincoln's assassin, just hours after Booth fled the crime scene. A Confederate sympathizer, Mudd was accused of aiding Booth's escape and tried along with Booth's other accomplices. Throughout, Mudd maintained that he had not recognized the disguised Booth, an acquaintance of his, and had been unaware of the assassination, but he was nonetheless convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2022, 09:54:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

George Washington Resigns as Commander-in-Chief (1783)
After demonstrating exemplary leadership as commander-in-chief of the Continental Army during the American Revolution, George Washington resigned his commission and retired to Mount Vernon, Virginia. By resigning his military post, Washington established the important precedent that civilian-elected officials possess ultimate authority over the armed forces. After a brief retirement, he was elected the country's first president.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 23, 2022, 11:10:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

George Washington Resigns as Commander-in-Chief (1783)
After demonstrating exemplary leadership as commander-in-chief of the Continental Army during the American Revolution, George Washington resigned his commission and retired to Mount Vernon, Virginia. By resigning his military post, Washington established the important precedent that civilian-elected officials possess ultimate authority over the armed forces. After a brief retirement, he was elected the country's first president.
On this occasion he had a ceremony and dinner at an Inn in NYC. The Inn still exists and I had a pint there when I was in the City for the BTT at MSG a few years ago. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2022, 09:20:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The "Christmas Truce" of World War I (1914)
As Christmas approached in the early months of World War I, British and German troops stationed on the Western Front took it upon themselves to stage an unofficial cease-fire. Roughly 100,000 troops participated in this inspiring display of humanity. Over the course of the brief cessation of hostilities, enemy soldiers caroled together, exchanged gifts, played football, and even attended funerals together.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2022, 09:34:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Charles Darwin Sets Sail on HMS Beagle (1831)
The theory of evolution, which Darwin first expressed in On the Origin of Species, was the result of his discoveries as a naturalist on board the HMS Beagle. His book explained evolution through the principles of natural selection and aroused widespread debate among scientists and religious leaders. Darwin spent the rest of his life studying the results of that expedition and developing his theory of evolution.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 31, 2022, 12:38:50 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Roberto Clemente Dies in Plane Crash (1972)
Right fielder Roberto Clemente played 18 seasons with the Pittsburgh Pirates, winning the National League MVP award in 1966, as well as 12 Gold Glove Awards throughout his career. In 1973, he became the first Latin-American player to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. Clemente, who was dedicated to charity work, was traveling to Nicaragua to deliver aid to earthquake victims when his plane crashed off the coast of Puerto Rico.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 02, 2023, 08:36:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The "Trial of the Century" Begins (1935)
Bruno Hauptmann, a German immigrant to the US, was convicted and sentenced to death for the kidnapping and murder of Charles Augustus Lindbergh, Jr., the young son of famed pilot Charles Lindbergh. Hauptmann had been found with part of the ransom money, but the case against him has since come under scrutiny. It has been alleged that some of the evidence used to convict him was planted and that false testimony was given at the trial.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2023, 08:25:52 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Curse of the Bambino (1920)
According to baseball lore, the Boston Red Sox became cursed after Babe Ruth, the "Bambino," was sold to the New York Yankees in 1920. Before the sale, the Red Sox had won five World Series titles. After the sale, Ruth became a superstar, and the previously lackluster Yankees went on to win 27 World Series titles. The Red Sox, meanwhile, failed to win another series for more than eight decades, finally breaking the "curse" in 2004.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2023, 07:53:25 PM
THE TOMAHAWK;
The Tomahawk, an offensive tool par excellence together with a bow and arrows at the time of the first clashes between whites and Indians (and even earlier, in the daily use of the various tribes), is the combat hatchet of Native Americans. In truth it was used for a very long time also by the European colonists as it had numerous merits and, among these, there was that it also lent itself to being launched.
The name, Tomahawk, is the exact transliteration in English of the term used by the Algonquin of Virginia from which the whites heard about it for the first time.
Originally the head of the Indian tomahawk was made with a simple piece of worked stone, or with the bison's jaw, but with the arrival of the Europeans and the start of commercial exchanges everything changed and from that moment only iron or brass and heads were used pre-packaged by European craftsmen or settlers.
The handle of the tomahawks was usually less than 60 centimeters long and made of Carya wood. The head had a weight that could go from about 250 to 550 grams, with a blade no longer than 10 centimeters. At the opposite end of the blade there could be a small hammer, a point or simply be rounded.
In the various museums of indigenous art there are many examples of Indian tomahawks, mainly with the metal head and in the different shapes just described.
The stone heads were made of soapstone, and some specimens used in rituals were carved.
The Europeans made some specimens both in stone and metal with the hollow handle and a pipe integrated in the head to be able to smoke tobacco.
the tomahawk was predominantly an offensive tool; he could strike with fair precision from a good distance and was silent, as well as tremendously effective. Of course, a non-offensive use could not be missing, for example for cutting wood or cleaning the long poles for the tents of the Plains Indians.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/323378343_1321451692027467_1459453702115653932_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=us56WWbWbi0AX9n2Egt&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCy9e9t25wSaez6RxRtQB99f3K-_N-e7XGVEDlrozEB-A&oe=63B8D44F)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2023, 08:22:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Sputnik 1 Falls to Earth (1958)
Sputnik 1 was the first artificial satellite to be put into orbit. It was launched by the Soviet Union in October 1957 and acted as the starting gun for the Space Race. The first Sputnik, Russian for "fellow traveler," was able to transmit radio signals for 22 days, emitting a beeping sound heard around the world. The US created NASA in October 1958, largely in response to this momentous occasion.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 04, 2023, 08:36:58 AM
𝐉𝐚𝐧𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐲 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐅𝐞𝐛𝐫𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐲 𝐚𝐫𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐧𝐞𝐰𝐞𝐬𝐭 𝐦𝐨𝐧𝐭𝐡𝐬 𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐜𝐚𝐥𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐚𝐫, they were originally inserted as the 11th month and 12th months of the year on the old calendar. The old Roman year had only 10 months with December as its last month. The root of the word, ‘dec’ is derived from Latin and Greek translating as the number ten. Accordingly, the months after the harvest were simply numbered. Sept/seven, Oct/eight Nov/nine & Dec/ten.
The -ber element in four Latin month names is probably from -bris, an adjectival suffix. Therefore, the original could have been decemo-membris from -mensris from mens- meaning ‘month’. Menses and menstruation (monthlies) are also derived from mens.
While the sun gives us our calendar year the moon gives us the months in fact the word ‘month’ is named after the moon. It is a period calculated to be one complete phase of the moon. There are roughly 12 moon phases in a calendar year.
The average calendrical month, which is one twelfth of a year, about 30.44 days, while the Moon's phase (synodic) cycle repeats on average every 29.53 days. Therefore, the timing of the Moon's phases shifts by an average of almost one day for each successive month.
The seven-day week also comes from the lunar cycle due to the four principal lunar phases namely the first quarter, full moon, last quarter, and new moon. Each of the four lunar phases is roughly 7 days or roughly 7.38 days but each varies slightly due to lunar apogee and perigee. The Moon's orbit is fiendishly difficult to explain, so for more information lookup the phrase ‘barycentre’.
Many centuries of observational studies have yielded these figures but in ancient times these abilities lay in the distant future. So the Romans simply counted ten months from the start of their year at the vernal equinox but were flummoxed when deciding to whether or not to add to add two or three months at the end.
Eventually January (Ianuarius) together with February (Februarius) were inserted on the calendar around 700BC. March remained the beginning of the year until 153BC when it was designated to January. This had the effect of shifting the months out of kilter with their literal meanings by two months! Everyone mistakenly believes that his was due to the insertion of July and August. The month Quintilis (5th) was renamed July in honour of Julius Caesar in 44BC and Sextilis (6th) was renamed August in honour of Augustus in 8BC.
So today, we have a lunar calendar superimposed on a solar calendar but the two cycles are not synchronous. Reconciling the two was one of the greatest challenges faced by scholars and was only solved in with the calendar reforms under Pope Gregory in 1582.
January 1st was not universally accepted as the start of the New Year and many countries continued to observe New Year at various times. For example the Byzantine Empire or the old Eastern Roman Empire celebrated New Year on September 1st.
After the fall of the Western Roman Empire the start of the New Year went back to March 25. This date remains the start of the financial new year in many territories including the UK but is now April 5th because 10 days were annulled as part of the Gregorian calendar reforms.
The 1582 calendar firmly place January the first as the start of the New Year. However, many protestant countries were slow to adopt a “Catholic” calendar. Ireland, for example, under the control of Protestant England, held its New Year celebrations on the Feast of the Annunciation on March 25th. It continued up until 1752 when the English finally relented and started using the Gregorian calendar. It should be noted that most countries in Western Europe had officially adopted January 1st as New Year's Day even before they adopted the Gregorian calendar.
History students might be bemused to find that the English parliamentary record lists the execution of King Charles I as having occurred on the 30th of January 1648 and not 1649. 1648 did not end until the 24th of March but historians have retrospectively adjusted the start of the year to 1 January and so record the execution as occurring in 1649.
The month of January is named in honour of the god Janus by the Romans who is the god of beginnings and transitions, thence also of gates, doors, doorways, endings and time. He is usually a two-faced god since he looks to the future and the past. Early Romans believed that the beginning of each day, month and year were sacred to Janus. They thought he opened the gates of heaven at dawn to let out the morning and closed them at dusk. The image here is of a Celtic idol with two faces (Janus form) in Caldragh graveyard on Boa Island in Lower Lough Erne, Co. Fermanagh

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2023, 08:47:49 AM
so, Jesus was born on June 31st
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 05, 2023, 07:10:28 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/v09YauD.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 05, 2023, 10:58:48 AM
so, Jesus was born on June 31st
Yep.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 05, 2023, 11:30:43 AM
Today in history: Jan. 5

In 1933, construction began on the Golden Gate Bridge


(https://external.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/emg1/v/t13/17096936171562143229?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com%2Fnptelegraph.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2Fe%2Ff9%2Fef9cd25c-2708-5791-8a1b-94f09cd90faf%2F63b4aa324e3af.preview.jpg%3Fcrop%3D1632%252C857%252C0%252C206%26resize%3D1200%252C630%26order%3Dcrop%252Cresize&fb_obo=1&utld=townnews.com&stp=c0.5000x0.5000f_dst-jpg_flffffff_p500x261_q75&ccb=13-1&oh=06_AbHSmryPvpiigJW6gKV_nA5ssWtS7eSWgGrks3NQUFmVsw&oe=63B8DFAA&_nc_sid=a349d5)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on January 05, 2023, 05:08:49 PM
I knew the calendar had changed over the years, but I never really knew the back-story.  I think too they added a bunch of days or subtracted a bunch of days to account for the leap years that were missed.  

So my question is when a historical date is given, do they give the original date, or the modified date?  I never really thought about it.  It's kinda like saying a soda was 5 cents in 1920, it cost what it cost no matter what it costs now.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 05, 2023, 05:40:49 PM
So my question is when a historical date is given, do they give the original date, or the modified date?  
does it matter?

it's a number

now, if you had a time machine, it might be important
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2023, 08:57:06 AM
1932, FDR meets with Utah Governor George Dern. The former Husker tackle and team captain, would serve as the U.S. Secretary of War. GBR!!!

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/322559312_660740625797270_5383280754058658600_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=QiTngBQs27MAX-K5m_u&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCPQiJe_72AiIw9wd5cUm0IJzaNKNKaHn4355B8yfeHhA&oe=63BD7FE3)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2023, 08:37:28 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US President Woodrow Wilson Introduces His Fourteen Points (1918)
In 1918, Wilson presented to the US Congress his Fourteen Points as a guide for a peace settlement after World War I. He emphasized "open covenants of peace, openly arrived at," to change the usual method of secret diplomacy practiced in Europe. Wilson's idealistic message also laid the groundwork for the creation of the League of Nations.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2023, 11:02:36 AM
History Nebraska

The world's second-largest hydraulic-fill dam when constructed, the Kingsley Dam spillway began generating electricity in 1941, four years after this photo was taken.
A few years after completion, Lake C.W. McConaughy was providing irrigation water through more than 500 miles of canals and laterals.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/322276244_1560057727843426_3517597919697189117_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=iHP5jm09aYgAX8nqQKk&tn=1aDD2LH8MXkA8yGv&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBVxz1_aDt2rd8g5Ftt8zcIX7eY71GqpA4zVTmyy-NpbA&oe=63BFBA77)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2023, 12:35:26 PM
The Dakota fire hole system was named after the Dakota Native American people who developed the technology centuries ago. The system originated in today's North and South Dakota, Wisconsin and Minnesota. It was designed to combat the constant wind that blew over the Plains, and to prevent prairie fires which would scare off the bison. The Dakota fire pit was made up of two holes, a bigger and a smaller one which were connected by a tunnel. The fire was lit in the bigger hole, and the tunnel provided a constant feed of fresh oxygen into the fire, making for an almost smokeless fire. Since the fire was underground and protected from the elements, it was concealed and burned much hotter, making it ideal for stealth camping and cooking. This is why the U.S. army has been teaching its soldiers how to build a Dakota fire hole since the Vietnam war, where it was first used by U.S. soldiers to stay hidden from the Viet-Cong in the Vietnamese jungles. The only downside to the Dakota fire pit is that it needs to be built on rich and firm soil, as it is almost impossible to make one in frozen, sandy or heavy soil. The Dakota had the benefit of living in the grassy North American Plains, where the soil was ideal for the Dakota fire pit.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/321439133_589809112984750_8776622550932262176_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ke4lmQsmC0IAX9NrJq7&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBnCjJ2q7ncICnEgQL2_1_7o_ibc7NPH_yhoff2W8G70A&oe=63BF5F71)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 13, 2023, 09:00:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

First Mickey Mouse Comic Strip Released (1930)
Mickey Mouse's first incarnation of sorts was as Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, created by Walt Disney for Universal Studios. After Universal threatened to cut Disney's budget, Disney reorganized his studio and created Mickey to keep his company afloat. Mickey was rather mischievous in early cartoons but later evolved into a well-meaning everyman. Today, he is one of the most recognizable cartoon characters in the world.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2023, 09:04:02 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Marilyn Monroe Marries Joe DiMaggio (1954)
Marilyn Monroe married baseball star Joe DiMaggio after a courtship that captivated America. Their marriage lasted just nine months, collapsing amid reports of DiMaggio's growing possessiveness. Monroe then wed playwright Arthur Miller, but after divorcing him in 1961, she became close again with DiMaggio. When Monroe was found dead in August 1962, it was DiMaggio who made the funeral arrangements.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2023, 08:08:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/0wtUdyh.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 16, 2023, 08:35:48 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2023, 08:43:11 AM
or on Sundays!!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2023, 08:43:32 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ivan the Terrible Crowned Tsar of Russia (1547)
Following his parents' deaths, Ivan IV became the first ruler of Russia to assume the title "czar" and to pursue a czarist autocracy by limiting the power of the Russian nobility. He also expanded Russian influence by conquering Kazan and Astrakhan, acquiring Siberia, and seeking better access to the Baltic Sea. A serious illness and the death of his wife, however, caused Ivan to become increasingly tyrannical and volatile.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2023, 09:01:46 AM
Czar and Kaiser derive from Caesar…
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 16, 2023, 10:29:26 AM
WTF is wrong with that place Ivan/Stalin/Putin - makes the American Mob look like Mr Rodger's Neighborhood or Brandon and his Administration
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2023, 12:58:04 PM
On this day in history, Jan. 16, 1919, Prohibition is ratified, banning booze in the United States | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/this-day-history-jan-16-1919-prohibition-ratified-banning-booze-united-states)


"It is the only amendment that limited the rights of U.S citizens rather than restrict the powers of government, as was originally intended by the Bill of Rights."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 16, 2023, 01:27:09 PM
What idiot would vote in someone nicknamed "the Terrible"?!?!?!  Pffffft.  :57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on January 16, 2023, 07:14:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/0wtUdyh.jpg)
And remember, it was probably served room temp as they didn't have much refrigeration in those days.  Had to be before prohibition I think, so pre-1920's.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 16, 2023, 07:45:43 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Marilyn Monroe Marries Joe DiMaggio (1954)
Marilyn Monroe married baseball star Joe DiMaggio after a courtship that captivated America. Their marriage lasted just nine months, collapsing amid reports of DiMaggio's growing possessiveness. Monroe then wed playwright Arthur Miller, but after divorcing him in 1961, she became close again with DiMaggio. When Monroe was found dead in August 1962, it was DiMaggio who made the funeral arrangements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeuxP5HY070
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 17, 2023, 07:33:55 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Matt Drudge Breaks the Lewinsky Scandal (1998)
Matt Drudge is the proprietor of the popular Drudge Report website that gained notoriety for breaking a series of news reports ahead of the mainstream media. He won fame for his coverage of the Monica Lewinsky affair, a scandal that led to the impeachment of US President Bill Clinton. He was inspired to start his news site after becoming privy to insider gossip at CBS studios while working as its gift shop manager.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2023, 08:42:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Jim Thorpe's Olympic Medals Posthumously Restored (1983)
Jim Thorpe, an American Olympian, excelled at every sport he played and is deemed one of the greatest athletes in modern sports history. He won Olympic gold medals in the pentathlon and decathlon but was stripped of his awards amid reports that he had played minor league baseball before participating in the 1912 Olympic Games. At the time, strict rules barred professional athletes from Olympic competition.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2023, 09:49:54 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Iran Releases 52 American Hostages (1981)
The overthrow of Muhammad Reza Shah Pahlevi of Iran by an Islamic revolutionary government in February 1979 led to a steady deterioration in Iranian-American relations. In September of that year, the exiled shah was allowed into the US for medical treatment, prompting Iranian students called the Muslim Student Followers of the Imam's Line to seize the US embassy in Tehran and take 66 Americans hostage. After 444 days, the last 52 hostages were released.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2023, 10:37:01 PM

The Cornhusker Hotel's Reuben sandwich.


So much has been written on when and where the sandwich came to be. New York has laid claim to the Reuben as the brainchild of a deli owner, while Omaha claims to have pinpointed the sandwich's origins to the Blackstone Hotel, along with the tale that a late-night poker game led to some hunger pangs and a call to the kitchen for the chef to rustle up some provisions.

It was then and there that the chef, or so we're told, created the first Reuben.

Not true, says Cox and her sister, Sally Guenzel.

The first Reuben, they insist, was created in Lincoln more than a decade before America entered World War II — at the Cornhusker Hotel — by their father, a man named Reinhold Rebensdorf.

"He never wanted any notoriety for it, but that's the story," Guenzel says.

* * *

Rebensdorf, a first-generation American, was born in Harbine, a tiny village southwest of Beatrice. His German parents, George and Marie, escaped Russia in 1906 and migrated to Nebraska after George was promised a job building railroad boxcars.

George died in a train accident in 1913, when Rebensdorf was 11 months old. His mother remarried and relocated to Lincoln's South Bottoms, where he became part of a blended family that included more than a dozen children.

At the age of 8, in order to help the family make ends meet, he was put on a bus to Paxton, where he worked in the sugar beet fields.

He'd come home and go back to school in the winters, but he never went further than the eighth grade.

In 1930, the 18-year-old was hired as a sandwich boy at the Cornhusker. Over the years, he would be promoted to sous chef and, after returning from serving in the U.S. Navy during World War II, was hired as the Cornhusker's executive chef in 1946 — a job he held until 1970.

In his tenure as executive chef, he did everything. He designed the menus, ran the kitchens, did the ordering and even sculpted the ice carvings, a skill he had acquired over the years.

He also appeared on "The Tonight Show," starring Jack Paar, and cooked for many famous people, including eventual President Richard Nixon in 1956.

He left the Cornhusker to open the Nebraska Club and ran it until 1980, when he retired at the age of 69. Retirement was a relative term, though. His idle days were filled with catering jobs for various friends and community organizations like the Shriners and the Lincoln Community Playhouse — "really, he'd cook for anyone he knew," Cox said.

Rebensdorf, who died in April 1994 just days short of his 82nd birthday, loved Lincoln and his job. More than anything, he adored creating great food and seeing the impact it had on the people who ate it.

Rebensdorf, who went by the nickname "Reine," made a to-die-for black-bottom pie, as well as a corned beef hash that was renowned. He also won awards for his turkey galantine.

Still, it was the sandwich he created years before — long before the war — while still working as a sandwich boy that could be considered his legacy.

* * *

Rebensdorf proved to be quite adept at the job — so competent that he was approached early on by AQ Schimmel, the oldest of four brothers who owned and operated a string of Midwest hotels that included both the Cornhusker and the Blackstone.

"He told me AQ Schimmel came to him and asked him to develop a sandwich for a new restaurant at the Blackstone Hotel," Guenzel said.

"He developed it (the Reuben) and they gave him credit for it," Cox said.

That was more than enough for Rebensdorf, a man who had escaped working the beet fields and had found his true life calling.

* * *

The great Reuben debate gets contentious when food historians begin going back in time to check who made it first.

It was considered an indisputable fact here in Nebraska that the first Reuben was served sometime in the late 1920s at the Blackstone in Omaha.

The tale goes that a group of men gathered at the hotel to play poker when one of them, a fella named Reuben Kulakofsky, grew hungry in the midst of the game and called down to the kitchen for a snack.


The chef created a sandwich of corned beef, Swiss cheese, sauerkraut and Russian dressing, pressed hot on rye bread.

And the rest is history.

That is, until the food historians in New York tried to flex their muscles. One such authority, Andrew Smith, an author of 24 books, disputed the Blackstone theory with a letter to the editor of the New York Times a few years after Elizabeth Weil, a great-granddaughter in the Schimmel family, wrote in 2016 about the poker game at the Blackstone and the sandwich it inspired.

Smith claims that the sandwich was first made in 1914 — a decade before — by Arnold Reuben at his sandwich shop in New York City, and he and Weil fought for years trying to prove the other wrong.

Rebensdorf's daughters claim both of them are wrong, that the sandwich was actually made first — in Lincoln by their father — in the early 1930s.

"It's what we have always known," said Cox, who has framed old menus from the Cornhusker and has given them to her children to keep alive their grandfather's memory.

* * *
So how did this fly below the radar for so long? Why is it that Lincoln stayed mum while New York and Omaha were fighting over the birthright to a sandwich that has gained worldwide notoriety and is featured on the menus of virtually every restaurant in America?

That's just Lincoln, Doug Evans says.

"To the people in Lincoln, it’s just not as important to them as it is to the people of Omaha or New York," he said. "Sauerkraut and (Russian) dressing? Big whoop.

"We’re not pretentious here. Omaha is different. It’s much more pretentious. I think that’s why the Schimmels, who had hotels all over the Midwest, chose to live here. This was their home base."


Perhaps the only debate you'll get in the Capital City is how it should be served: cold or grilled.

Sally Guenzel has adapted. She's tried the grilled version and can appreciate the goodness in the way the Swiss cheese melts into the other ingredients, causing the corned beef and sauerkraut to meld together, while also providing the much-appreciated crunch to the rye bread.

"I like them grilled, but they were meant to be served cold," she said.

Cox takes a by-the-book method when making Reubens. Like her father, she takes the time to squeeze all of the liquid out of the sauerkraut and then marinates it in the dressing overnight. She'd never consider using a skillet or panini press in the preparation.

"He meant it to be served cold," she says, noting that she last made six loaves' worth of Reubens on Christmas Day. "So that's how I serve them."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 20, 2023, 11:36:13 PM
Well his parents did leave Russia so that's where the idea for the dressing came from. Sounds legit,might have to take a road trip. In high school I worked a big suburban restaurant known for the old world artisan meat/cheeses/bread they use to roast/broil pork loin,prime rib,black forest ham,amish raised turkey - cooked on site - you name it.Place had a big restuarant w.buffet,a bar and Banquet Rooms that held 250 guests.plus a catering service. lotta hotties working there.

  The best thing was all the imported kegs of beer - this was before the Craft beers so that was a real treat.Anyway some of the best sandwiches ever like the rueben,french dips,Club Sandwich -smoked turkey and bacon,BLT's. When making the sammiches we always used a steamer for the meat/cheeses great taste w/o the grease. They even had Goose liver & onion on rye or pumpernickel by request only . i made some of the greatest dagwoods known to man and would wash them down with Dab/LowenBrau/carlsburg/Heineken/Amstel/Tuborg/Stella/Grolsch/Hoegaarden.When i was 16 picked up the the tricks from the older kids working there.They had these tall dark green glasses they served soda in so it disguised it and shove it out of the way.

I use to layer different meats between differnt cheeses like ham then brick,then corned beef,then swiss,then turkey then monterey jack then roast beef then smoked goulda grilled the rye,french or pumpernickel bread.Could throw on some grilled peppers/onions/shrooms too if there was room. Big deli claussen like pickles. Never gained a pound either as i was playing football and working alot. It was the studying i found irksome - good times
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 08:52:36 AM
usually over the sink, obviously
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 08:53:06 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Vladimir Lenin Dies (1924)
A Russian revolutionary and leader of the Bolshevik party, Lenin was a main player in the overthrow of the Russian monarchy and the creation of the Soviet Union. Trained as a lawyer, he began studying Marxism in the 1890s and soon adapted it to his own theory, Leninism. In 1917, he became virtual dictator of Russia, with Joseph Stalin and Leon Trotsky as his chief advisors, but he later unsuccessfully called for Stalin's removal from the post of general secretary.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 09:17:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Bloody Sunday: Massacre in St. Petersburg (1905)
The Russian Revolution of 1905 began on Bloody Sunday, when Czar Nicholas II's troops killed and wounded hundreds of unarmed, peaceful demonstrators marching toward the Winter Palace. The protesters, organized by Georgy Gapon, a Russian Orthodox priest, were going to present the czar with a petition for an eight-hour workday, improved working conditions, and fair wages, when troops opened fire on them. Gapon was killed soon after.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 25, 2023, 06:05:51 PM
The Black Watch

The Black Watch—or Royal Highland Regiment—is a Scottish infantry regiment of the British Army. Its first companies were originally raised in 1725 to occupy and watch the rebellious Scottish highlands, in order to keep the peace. The regiment was formed about 15 years later and became known as the Black Watch, after the dark colors of the regimental tartan. In 2006, a military reorganization made the Black Watch the 3d Battalion of the Royal Regiment of Scotland.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2023, 10:15:16 AM
Jan. 28, 1986, the space shuttle Challenger — scheduled for a routine launch from Cape Canaveral in Florida — exploded after just 73 seconds in flight, killing all seven Americans on board.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2023, 03:19:15 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/this-battle-of-the-korean-war-was-one-of-the-most-disastrous-in-us-history/ar-AA16Q5Oy?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=c4dddad835704672a1d68469977c0e69 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/this-battle-of-the-korean-war-was-one-of-the-most-disastrous-in-us-history/ar-AA16Q5Oy?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=c4dddad835704672a1d68469977c0e69)

While the U.S. has generally been victorious on the battlefield, some battles have been nearly as disastrous for the United States. One example is the Battle of Chosin Reservoir in Korea which pitted the U.S. military against much larger North Korean and Chinese forces.

The cause of the disaster was simple. Overconfidence has prompted members of the U.S. Army and Marines to move too close to the Chinese border. By some estimates the North Koreans and Chinese threw more than 120,000 people into the battle. The United States had fewer than 30,000. American casualties reached above 10,000, with more than 1,000 fatalities. The clash is considered one of the most disastrous battles in U.S. history.

One joint U.S.-Korean army unit, later dubbed Task Force MacLean after one of its commanders, was almost completely wiped out, with as much as 95% of the force killed, wounded, or captured.

The perilous American retreat is among the most famous in U.S. military history. The battle, which ran from Nov. 27 to Dec. 15, 1950, also helped tip the results of the war against the United States and South Korea, with the conflict ultimately considered a draw.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2023, 05:53:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/1F3qX1T.png)
American singer-songwriters Ted Nugent and Bob Seger was taken in 1972, while the two performed together at several venues.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2023, 08:46:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Hitler Is Appointed Chancellor of Germany (1933)
Hitler's rise to power began long before 1933, with his development of the Nazi party in the early 1920s and the release of his book, Mein Kampf. When the Nazis were elected the largest party in the Reichstag in 1932, German President Paul von Hindenburg offered Hitler a subordinate position in the cabinet. Hitler held out for a more powerful post and only had to wait six months to be named chancellor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2023, 08:46:34 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1882)
Elected to an unprecedented four presidential terms, Roosevelt guided the US through the Great Depression and World War II. He instituted the New Deal program to promote economic recovery and social reform and, as war spread in Europe, prepared for the possibility that the US would enter the war. When it finally did, he led the nation to the threshold of victory, dying in office less than a month before Germany's surrender to the Allies.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 30, 2023, 10:26:14 AM
back when the Dems were actually there for the people rather than them selves
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2023, 10:32:56 AM
well, they probably had the poor folks fooled at least a little bit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on January 30, 2023, 10:40:17 PM
https://twitter.com/BeatlesEarth/status/1620044373328003072?t=rT0wGem2Mje1OxdUfCZwtw&s=19
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2023, 09:27:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Private Slovik Executed for Desertion (1945)
US Army private Eddie Slovik was executed for desertion in 1945. His was the first such execution after the Civil War and the only one of 49 World War II desertion death sentences to be carried out. Slovik was initially separated from his unit during an artillery attack. He rejoined them but deserted after being assigned to the front lines. He later confessed in writing that he would do it again and refused offers to destroy his note and return to battle.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2023, 11:57:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/DJOuKng.png)

I-85 in Atlanta 1954.  I'm not sure where this is.  Some of the concrete pavement on exit ramps is still used.  When they widened it, they left a part of the old freeway for local access, which I used today in fact.

(https://i.imgur.com/uVaqrgT.png)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2023, 02:16:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XicRshF.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2023, 04:28:55 PM
[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/XicRshF.png[/img]
All grandsons of Queen Victoria
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2023, 04:42:41 PM
All grandsons of Queen Victoria
Wife and I went to Vancouver in Sept, and took a day trip down to Victoria. 

Very cool place, and we're thinking of going back at some point for a long weekend and staying directly in Victoria itself. Lots of history. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2023, 11:25:19 PM
blue blood
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2023, 07:36:46 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/4O4V454.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2023, 09:07:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Private Slovik Executed for Desertion (1945)
US Army private Eddie Slovik was executed for desertion in 1945. His was the first such execution after the Civil War and the only one of 49 World War II desertion death sentences to be carried out. Slovik was initially separated from his unit during an artillery attack. He rejoined them but deserted after being assigned to the front lines. He later confessed in writing that he would do it again and refused offers to destroy his note and return to battle.
Shouldn't have, there were quite a few slime balls who served in the quarter masters. Like Crapgame in Kelly's Heroes - Dispensing all sorts of provisions,Beer,alcohol,smokes,chocolate bars anything that was sent over. Many of these turds formed a Black Market they profitted handsomely from. While good men were paying a price in death & suffering. Everyone of them that were caught & convicted should have stood in for Eddie
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2023, 09:12:49 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XicRshF.png)
Read that there was 16% inbreeding in the British Royal blood lines,never liked those A-Holes, commoners are fine
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 01, 2023, 06:57:21 PM
The bowie knife is named after the Alamo hero Jim Bowie (1796-1836). His brother, Rezin, designed the hefty weapon.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2023, 07:25:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/oTldYrP.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2023, 08:21:46 AM
The first bicycle, probably created by the German Baron Karl de Drais de Sauerbrun in the early 1800s, was a form of hobby-horse that was propelled by the rider's feet pushing against the ground. The first treadle-propelled cycle was designed by the Scottish blacksmith Kirkpatrick Macmillan around 1839. By the end of the 19th century, bicycles had wire wheels, metal frames, and pneumatic tires.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2023, 09:52:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SvkZoZJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2023, 10:01:32 AM
Nice list... :)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2023, 02:14:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gY0nuOE.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2023, 02:21:49 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/h9px6dG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2023, 07:15:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gY0nuOE.png)


They had to be thinking "please,not now"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2023, 09:02:51 PM
Feb 2,1925  Gunnar Kaasen finished the last leg of the vaccine run led by the dog team headed by BALTO. The coordinated emergency delivery of this life-saving antitoxin by dog-sled relay in the harshest of conditions has left a profound legacy in the annals of vaccinology and public health the 1925 diphtheria epidemic of Nome, Alaska.

The 938 mile Ididarod Sled Dog Race from Anchorage to Nome is run annually to commemorate the event
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2023, 08:22:55 AM
On February 3, 1959, American rock and roll (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_roll) musicians Buddy Holly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_Holly), Ritchie Valens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritchie_Valens), and "The Big Bopper" J. P. Richardson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Bopper) were all killed in a plane crash near Clear Lake, Iowa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_Lake,_Iowa), together with pilot Roger Peterson. The event later became known as "The Day the Music Died" after singer-songwriter Don McLean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_McLean) referred to it as such in his 1971 song "American Pie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Pie_(song))".Allsup and Valens flipped a coin to see who would get a seat on the small plane. At the time, Holly and his band, consisting of Waylon Jennings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waylon_Jennings), Tommy Allsup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Allsup), and Carl Bunch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Bunch), were playing on the "Winter Dance Party" tour (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_tour) across the Midwest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_United_States). Valens called heads and won and Allsup took the bus. Jennings gave up his seat for Richardson, who felt that as a large-sized man, would feel uncomfortable on the bus. Jennings took the bus.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2023, 08:39:50 AM
The Surf Ballroom is still alive and well in Clear Lake

If you ever visit, go to Mason City a few miles away and enjoy a steak at the Northwestern

"People thought the infamous Winter Dance Party rock and roll tour of 1959 ended when Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and J.P. 'The Big Bopper'  Richardson were killed in a plane crash following their performance at Clear Lake, Iowa's Surf Ballroom," Sevan Garabedian explained, close to 64 years later. "Even though the other performers were devastated, the promoters wanted the tour to continue."

With less than 24 hours notice, the then-18-year-old Frankie Avalon found himself on the Shore Acres Ballroom stage as Holly's last-minute replacement for the Sioux City gig.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2023, 10:50:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/GsC4hFs.png)

Graf Zeppelin - The Forgotten German Aircraft Carrier - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VExSb_rZ1WU)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2023, 02:44:44 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
15th Amendment to the US Constitution Ratified (1870)
Ratified during the post-Civil War Reconstruction Period, the 15th Amendment to the US Constitution was intended primarily to enfranchise former slaves. It states: "The right of citizens…to vote shall not be denied or abridged…on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2023, 08:19:12 AM
From the Archive: 1979 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Road Test (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a42390355/1979-pontiac-firebird-trans-am-by-the-numbers/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2K9DnyCl-en2oYSkUzlMhkKsgR9XcTtvi5HA6O0u3NMG2EFpZU5BmNTBY)

0-60 in 6.7 seconds, 220 hp  12 mpg  live rear axle

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2023, 10:04:41 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Confederate States of America Established (1861)
Although Abraham Lincoln had stated his willingness to tolerate slavery where it currently existed, his election as US president precipitated the secession of several Southern states. South Carolina, the first to secede, was soon followed out of the Union by Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas. On February 4, 1861, delegates from the seceding states met in Alabama to organize a provisional government.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2023, 10:11:01 AM
I've seen some folks claim the secession was not primarily about slavery.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2023, 10:16:24 AM
me too
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 04, 2023, 10:41:16 AM
From the Archive: 1979 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Road Test (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a42390355/1979-pontiac-firebird-trans-am-by-the-numbers/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2K9DnyCl-en2oYSkUzlMhkKsgR9XcTtvi5HA6O0u3NMG2EFpZU5BmNTBY)

0-60 in 6.7 seconds, 220 hp  12 mpg  live rear axle
It is hilarious how bad these numbers are compared to today's cars. I'm pretty sure a lot of minivans could run with that.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2023, 10:45:25 AM
It is hilarious how bad these numbers are compared to today's cars. I'm pretty sure a lot of minivans could run with that.
Honda 0-60 Times & Honda Quarter Mile Times | Honda Civic, Accord, CR-V, Fit, Ridgeline, Pilot & more 0 to 60 stats! (zeroto60times.com)

 (https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/honda-0-60-mph-times/)Honda Odyssey is also at 6.7 seconds to 60.  FWD minivan.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 04, 2023, 10:47:14 AM
Honda 0-60 Times & Honda Quarter Mile Times | Honda Civic, Accord, CR-V, Fit, Ridgeline, Pilot & more 0 to 60 stats! (zeroto60times.com)

 (https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/honda-0-60-mph-times/)Honda Odyssey is also at 6.7 seconds to 60.  FWD minivan.
With room for all three of my kids and WAY better MPG's!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2023, 11:04:16 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/r8MVPsH.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2023, 01:04:25 PM
1996 Chrysler Town & Country LXi
0-60 mph 11.0
Quarter mile 18.1


everything is relative
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2023, 01:15:47 PM
I had a 1987 Dodge Caravan with a 4 cylinder engine and 5 speed transmission, I think it took nearly 17 seconds to get to 60.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2023, 01:32:49 PM
my brother's late 70's chevy vega with a automatic tranny and the AC on, might not ever get to 60.

luckily the speed limit was 55
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 04, 2023, 03:10:41 PM
my brother's late 70's chevy vega with a automatic tranny and the AC on, might not ever get to 60.

luckily the speed limit was 55
Yeah, you could use a sundial to time 1/4mi in those
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2023, 06:50:00 PM
1789
February 04


George Washington unanimously elected first U.S. president

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 08:25:38 AM
Dubbed the "Marathon Man," Belgian runner Stefaan Engels ran the marathon distance every day for a year, totaling 9,569 miles (1,5401 km).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 08:29:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Hydrogen Bomb Lost in the Ocean (1958)
The Tybee Bomb is a 7,600-pound (3,500-kg) nuclear bomb containing 400 pounds (180 kg) of conventional high explosives and highly enriched uranium. During a simulated combat mission, the B-47 bomber carrying it collided with an F-86 fighter plane, and the bomb was jettisoned and lost. It is presumed to be somewhere in Wassaw Sound, off the shores of Georgia's Tybee Island, but recovery efforts have been unsuccessful.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2023, 12:18:11 PM
On this day in history, Feb. 5, 1937, FDR announces plan to pack the Supreme Court | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/day-history-feb-5-1937-fdr-announces-plan-pack-supreme-court)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 04:33:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5xlSpKa.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2023, 05:21:09 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Hydrogen Bomb Lost in the Ocean (1958)
The Tybee Bomb is a 7,600-pound (3,500-kg) nuclear bomb containing 400 pounds (180 kg) of conventional high explosives and highly enriched uranium. During a simulated combat mission, the B-47 bomber carrying it collided with an F-86 fighter plane, and the bomb was jettisoned and lost. It is presumed to be somewhere in Wassaw Sound, off the shores of Georgia's Tybee Island, but recovery efforts have been unsuccessful.
Ya hello,Boss you're not gonna believe this shit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on February 05, 2023, 08:25:46 PM
I've seen some folks claim the secession was not primarily about slavery.
I give you the words of my 7th grade history teacher, Mrs. Kincannon, who said "No matter what anybody else says, the civil war was not about slavery".  She was a great teacher, I really liked her.  I still remember that we closely followed the 1988 Presidential Election, Bush vs. Dukakis.  Seemed like a much more civilized time.  Before I really knew what the major differences were between Republicans and Democrats, I think I kinda liked Dukakis a little more than Bush, but they both seemed OK dudes to an 7th grader.  

In 8th grade, Mrs. Mitchell (whom I had a bit of a crush on!) said " No matter what anybody else tells you, the civil war was about slavery".  

They were both middle aged white women.  

I have since concluded that it's just complicated.  Because some people were in fact fighting for slavery, some people were fighting for other things, and I thinks some people just kind of joined the fracas not really knowing exactly what they were fighting for, other than assuming everybody else knew what they were fighting for. 

I've always thought there were plenty of Northerners and Southeners who would be amply content to let the other side do as they seemed fit, what really did the people in NYC really care about the people in Alabama?  

But here we are.  And slavery was just such a shameful act and time.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 06:20:56 AM
The various Articles of Secession indicate slavery was a major cause.  The election of Lincoln was a major cause, obviously, and the main objection was his stance (or perceived stance) on slavery.  There were other issues that folks use to confuse.  I'm not talking about individual motivations to fight, that issue is more complex, but the core cause of secession was slavery.

The cause of the war itself gets more complex.  South Carolina seceded months before the war started.  Had Lincoln removed Federal troops from Fort Sumter, the Confederacy would likely have peacefully gone its way (sans NC and VA) and there would have been no war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2023, 08:08:10 AM
talk about a college football rivalry between the SEC and the Big Ten if that would have happened!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 06, 2023, 09:56:43 AM
This from a YouTube history channel

One of my favorite "moments" of WW2 took place during the fierce battles around the Anzio Beach Perimeter. This is from General Ernst Harmon's (2nd Armored Div) biography. 

During a lull in the fighting, an American soldier had "liberated" some champagne and a black top hat from some local buildings and had proceeded to get roaring drunk. He got a bit turned around and his buddies watched as he drunkenly weaved his way towards the German line. They yelled, screamed and then silently waited for the inevitable shot or spray of machine gun bullets. They were amazed when he made it to the line and a German officer stepped forward, spun the man around and nudged him back towards his own line. There were cheers from both sides when he made it back.

  War is terrible but sometimes the opportunity for mercy and humanity, even humor, arise.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2023, 11:33:04 AM
February 6, 1911. President Ronald Reagan is born.



Ronald Reagan’s legacy of patriotism and optimism is timeless and transparently apparent. Yet the "why" behind everything he did was never really stated by him outright. We know his faith guided him, but beyond that we long for him to have left a checklist of how to be Reagan-like.


As the Great Communicator though, in his written and spoken words, Ronald Reagan left many clues for us to find and decipher. Some seem as if they were given not only to America and the world but were almost as if he was also describing his own North Star. Like when he said, "Live simply, love generously, care deeply, speak kindly, leave the rest to God." A clear life motto - one he lived out both publicly and privately.  Good words for us to adopt and live out too. Simplicity. Love. Generosity. Caring. Kindness. Faith. When stated like that it doesn’t seem so elusive after all.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 06, 2023, 12:11:29 PM
The various Articles of Secession indicate slavery was a major cause.  The election of Lincoln was a major cause, obviously, and the main objection was his stance (or perceived stance) on slavery.  There were other issues that folks use to confuse.  I'm not talking about individual motivations to fight, that issue is more complex, but the core cause of secession was slavery.

The cause of the war itself gets more complex.  South Carolina seceded months before the war started.  Had Lincoln removed Federal troops from Fort Sumter, the Confederacy would likely have peacefully gone its way (sans NC and VA) and there would have been no war.
Your comment that individual motivations to fight are "more complex" is very true and really quite an understatement.  

In the antebellum South only a fairly small percentage of whites actually owned slaves.  The actual percentage is the subject of some debate but the absolute highest expression of it that I have seen comes from a pro-reparations activist who claims that almost one-third of southern families owned slaves.  Even using that extraordinarily high figure, still more than two-thirds of southern families did NOT own slaves so it stands to reason that at least around two-thirds of Confederate Soldiers had no direct personal benefit from the institution of Slavery.  

In the North the situation was quite convoluted.  A lot of poorer whites, particularly recent immigrants were at best lukewarm to the concept of abolition due to fear of wage competition from freed slaves.  This contributed to anti-war sentiment in the north that got so bad as to require Union Troops to be rushed from their win at the Battle of Gettysburg not South in pursuit of Lee but Northeast to NYC to put down violent anti-draft riots.  

In my own ancestry (AFAIK all of my ancestors were in North America before the Civil War) I have some ancestors who appear to have been drafted and fought rather begrudgingly for the Union possibly fighting to "preserve the Union" and others who joined up of their own free will and expressly for the purpose of freeing the slaves.  

My 2-great grandfather (Mother's, Mother's, Father's Father) was born to Quaker parents and raised a Quaker.  Quakers opposed both slavery and war but my 2-great Grandfather Joshua and his brother Caleb felt that "opposing slavery" as an intellectual pursuit but sitting idly by while hundreds of thousands of your countrymen actually fought to end it was hypocritical so they joined up.   My three-great uncle Caleb was killed in a small and previously little-known Pennsylvania Village called Gettysburg on July 3, 1863.  His brother Joshua served for the entire war from nearly the beginning until the final surrender.  He was wounded twice but survived the war and went on to have a large family with my great-grandfather as one of his sons.  I have a picture of my Grandmother (born 1909) sitting on his knee in about 1919.  

My ancestors Joshua and Caleb were unusual but not altogether unique.  They joined up explicitly to end slavery.  Most Northerners fought either because they didn't have a choice or to "preserve the union".  In fact, Lincoln was not elected on a platform of "ending slavery".  His platform was to stop the spread (not allow it in new territories) and enforce the already existing prohibition on the importation of additional slaves.  

Then there is the Emancipation Proclamation:
The Holy Roman Empire was famously neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.  Similarly, the Emancipation Proclamation functionally did not free a single slave.  Lincoln worded it carefully because there were still some slaves within Union States and, in any case, the President's Constitutional authority to unilaterally free such  persons was dubious at best.  Lincoln avoided those issues by proclaiming the freedom of slaves in areas "then in rebellion".  That made it a military action under his authority as "Commander in Chief" which had a much stronger Constitutional basis than a domestic Presidential edict.  

Additionally, the Emancipation Proclamation was not issued for the purpose of freeing slaves, it was issued for the purpose of keeping France and Great Britain out of the war.  The developing industrial North was an economic competitor to European industry while the agrarian South was an economic supplier of raw materials to and purchaser of industrial goods from European Industry.  The European powers were in a bit of a pickle because their economic interests leaned strongly toward the South but Slavery was extremely unpopular in Europe so their emotional interests were with the North.  The purpose of the Emancipation Proclamation was to make the abolition of slavery an explicit war aim of the North which would effectively make it impossible for either Britain or France to join the war on the (now) explicitly pro-slavery side.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 06, 2023, 12:15:47 PM
I've always thought there were plenty of Northerners and Southeners who would be amply content to let the other side do as they seemed fit, what really did the people in NYC really care about the people in Alabama? 

But here we are.  And slavery was just such a shameful act and time. 
I don't know if you did this on purpose but it is interesting that you used NYC as your example. NYC itself was very much anti-war territory. Union troops had to be sent there from Gettysburg to put down violent anti-draft riots.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 12:17:55 PM
Slavery and Lincoln's election --> secession.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 01:40:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/yxLO7WZ.png)

1919. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2023, 08:54:16 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/eLXU9Xk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2023, 10:08:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PT8PWJr.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2023, 12:06:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eLXU9Xk.png)
Got rid of my wood boat way too much maintenance,specially refinishing/shellacing the ribs/joists inside
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on February 07, 2023, 02:03:59 PM
I don't know if you did this on purpose but it is interesting that you used NYC as your example. NYC itself was very much anti-war territory. Union troops had to be sent there from Gettysburg to put down violent anti-draft riots.
No, explicitly listed NYC because I knew that there was some discontent.  I also seem to remember wealthy people could buy their way out of the war as well.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on February 07, 2023, 02:26:31 PM
Your comment that individual motivations to fight are "more complex" is very true and really quite an understatement. 

In the antebellum South only a fairly small percentage of whites actually owned slaves.  The actual percentage is the subject of some debate but the absolute highest expression of it that I have seen comes from a pro-reparations activist who claims that almost one-third of southern families owned slaves.  Even using that extraordinarily high figure, still more than two-thirds of southern families did NOT own slaves so it stands to reason that at least around two-thirds of Confederate Soldiers had no direct personal benefit from the institution of Slavery. 

In the North the situation was quite convoluted.  A lot of poorer whites, particularly recent immigrants were at best lukewarm to the concept of abolition due to fear of wage competition from freed slaves.  This contributed to anti-war sentiment in the north that got so bad as to require Union Troops to be rushed from their win at the Battle of Gettysburg not South in pursuit of Lee but Northeast to NYC to put down violent anti-draft riots. 

In my own ancestry (AFAIK all of my ancestors were in North America before the Civil War) I have some ancestors who appear to have been drafted and fought rather begrudgingly for the Union possibly fighting to "preserve the Union" and others who joined up of their own free will and expressly for the purpose of freeing the slaves. 

My 2-great grandfather (Mother's, Mother's, Father's Father) was born to Quaker parents and raised a Quaker.  Quakers opposed both slavery and war but my 2-great Grandfather Joshua and his brother Caleb felt that "opposing slavery" as an intellectual pursuit but sitting idly by while hundreds of thousands of your countrymen actually fought to end it was hypocritical so they joined up.  My three-great uncle Caleb was killed in a small and previously little-known Pennsylvania Village called Gettysburg on July 3, 1863.  His brother Joshua served for the entire war from nearly the beginning until the final surrender.  He was wounded twice but survived the war and went on to have a large family with my great-grandfather as one of his sons.  I have a picture of my Grandmother (born 1909) sitting on his knee in about 1919. 

My ancestors Joshua and Caleb were unusual but not altogether unique.  They joined up explicitly to end slavery.  Most Northerners fought either because they didn't have a choice or to "preserve the union".  In fact, Lincoln was not elected on a platform of "ending slavery".  His platform was to stop the spread (not allow it in new territories) and enforce the already existing prohibition on the importation of additional slaves. 

Then there is the Emancipation Proclamation:
The Holy Roman Empire was famously neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.  Similarly, the Emancipation Proclamation functionally did not free a single slave.  Lincoln worded it carefully because there were still some slaves within Union States and, in any case, the President's Constitutional authority to unilaterally free such  persons was dubious at best.  Lincoln avoided those issues by proclaiming the freedom of slaves in areas "then in rebellion".  That made it a military action under his authority as "Commander in Chief" which had a much stronger Constitutional basis than a domestic Presidential edict. 

Additionally, the Emancipation Proclamation was not issued for the purpose of freeing slaves, it was issued for the purpose of keeping France and Great Britain out of the war.  The developing industrial North was an economic competitor to European industry while the agrarian South was an economic supplier of raw materials to and purchaser of industrial goods from European Industry.  The European powers were in a bit of a pickle because their economic interests leaned strongly toward the South but Slavery was extremely unpopular in Europe so their emotional interests were with the North.  The purpose of the Emancipation Proclamation was to make the abolition of slavery an explicit war aim of the North which would effectively make it impossible for either Britain or France to join the war on the (now) explicitly pro-slavery side. 
That's a great piece of family history, thanks for sharing.  I do know that I had some ancestors who unfortunately fought for the South.  I would be very surprised if any of our family ancestors owned slaves, because you had to be somewhat wealthy to own them, and I'm pretty sure we never had any rich kinfolks.  

I doubt any enlisted man ever saw or knew about any Articles of Succession or any of the CSA knowledge.  There is no doubt that slavery suppressed the wages of the average southerner, because competing with free labor is a bitch IMO.  The problem is that nobody in the south and many in the north really accepted the slaves as any kind of equal, so there was always a question on what to do with the freed slaves?  

I often think about the people who signed up to fight to defeat slavery and it makes me very proud to be an American.  Think about it this way.  Slavery was not an American institution, it was a European one.  It was brought here by Europeans hundreds of years before there ever was a United States.  They  may not have allowed it at home, but it was ok to do "off world".  At least 100-150 years before the US existed.  We knew it was bad, it took another ~80 years to get rid of it.  And it was by far the deadliest war in our history.  So although it is a shameful thing in our history we faced it and beat it, even if some of my ancestors fought on the wrong side of the war, the country as a whole prevailed.  IMO just as important as our development as a country as the original Revolutionary War, because we still had to kick that part of Europe out.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2023, 08:27:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Boy Scouts of America Founded (1910)
One of the largest youth organizations in the US is the Boy Scouts of America, which promotes community service and character building. The scouts' activities aim at mental, moral, and physical development, stressing outdoor skills and training in citizenship and lifesaving. Scouts receive recognition in the form of merit badges and awards. The basic scout unit is a troop of about 15 boys, under the leadership of an adult scoutmaster.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2023, 08:29:10 AM
I think it clear the primary reason for secession was slavery and Lincoln's election.  The war itself was avoidable, at some cost, and men fought for a variety of reasons, slavery not being very prominent for most.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2023, 01:00:38 PM
The White House has been standing for 223 years, but did you know the stone used to build the White House is 100 million years old? 
The walls of the White House are constructed primarily from sandstone. It formed between 100 million years and 136 million years ago during the Lower Cretaceous Period. The sedimentary rock was created through a lengthy geological process. Granite and gneiss rocks broke down over time and became small fragments of quartz sand. Through wind and water, this quartz sand deposited into bodies of water where over millions of years, pressure caused the sand to fuse with other materials including silica, calcium carbonite, or iron oxide, creating sandstone. The Aquia Creek sandstone used to build the White House is known for its light color. It is also known as “freestone,” meaning that the stone could be carved in any direction without it breaking. The stone is very strong and fine grained, making it a good building material.
Outcroppings of Aquia stone exist along the banks of Aquia Creek and the Rappahannock River in Virginia. When construction of the new capital city began, the government purchased a quarry in 1791 at Brent’s Island, now known as Government Island, where enslaved and free laborers cut stone and shipped it up the Potomac River. That quarry and others provided sandstone to build both the White House and the Capitol Building.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2023, 10:08:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/cKlaPef.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2023, 05:11:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/DbXCezA.png)

My main man!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2023, 09:02:05 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/329316256_957831398520462_2483853849443639419_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=6-Ui_2TTOvkAX_zYera&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBiy56jNrWNXuzehrq-yGmqUINtWrANkM7dVDfcLz7diA&oe=63EBB306)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 10, 2023, 09:10:37 PM
She's looks like she's thinking this is their last date or they're just married
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2023, 10:34:32 PM
typical Stros fan
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 11, 2023, 09:01:35 AM
I think it clear the primary reason for secession was slavery and Lincoln's election.  The war itself was avoidable, at some cost, and men fought for a variety of reasons, slavery not being very prominent for most.
How was it avoidable really? Between cooler,rational heads - YES but that was hardly the case. Congress men were literally attacking each other on the floor. I remember watching the PBS Ken Burns Docu where some reb senator beat some yank senator with a cane breaking it. His constituents mailed him more canes . It was only a matter of time
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2023, 04:35:53 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/329245870_886376292434116_3874352193404187501_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=nX1qF6b6RQEAX9cJfRI&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAbcQxPpLgTCO3oLBcmAJ3zsko2ZSDyd2wRxmibcobidg&oe=63ED98C3)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2023, 08:10:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US President Bill Clinton Is Acquitted (1999)
In January 1998, President Clinton was questioned in a civil suit charging him with sexual harassment. Before the Grand Jury, he denied having an affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky, which turned out to be untrue. The US House of Representatives impeached Clinton on December 19, 1998, charging him with perjury and obstruction of justice. In 1999, two impeachment counts were tried in the Senate, which voted to acquit Clinton.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2023, 08:52:38 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

St. Valentine's Day Massacre (1929)
When Jack McGurn, a member of Al Capone's gang, was almost killed by members of rival George "Bugs" Moran's gang, Capone decided to retaliate by luring Bugs and some of his men to a warehouse and killing them. On the day of the massacre, Capone's men thought that the rival crime boss had entered the warehouse and opened fire. They killed seven men but not Bugs—he had grown suspicious and changed his plans.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 14, 2023, 12:42:12 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

St. Valentine's Day Massacre (1929)
When Jack McGurn, a member of Al Capone's gang, was almost killed by members of rival George "Bugs" Moran's gang, Capone decided to retaliate by luring Bugs and some of his men to a warehouse and killing them. On the day of the massacre, Capone's men thought that the rival crime boss had entered the warehouse and opened fire. They killed seven men but not Bugs—he had grown suspicious and changed his plans.
Back then this was considered an insane and unacceptable level of violence and it made national news.

Today this would be a remarkably peaceful weekend in Chicago and the only killings that make national news are those that fit with the narrative pushed by TPTB.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2023, 12:46:44 PM
Back then this was considered an insane and unacceptable level of violence and it made national news.

Today this would be a remarkably peaceful weekend in Chicago and the only killings that make national news are those that fit with the narrative pushed by TPTB.
Back then we had prohibition of alcohol, leading to violence that was all about turf wars between competing mafia families to protect their illicit business. 

Now we have prohibition of drugs, leading to violence that is all about turf wars between competing gangs to protect their illicit business. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 14, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
Back then we had prohibition of alcohol, leading to violence that was all about turf wars between competing mafia families to protect their illicit business.

Now we have prohibition of drugs, leading to violence that is all about turf wars between competing gangs to protect their illicit business.
This is more-or-less true insofar as it refers to the 1929 "massacre" of six rival gang members.

Today, not so much. Most killings today are over someone being "dissed" and squeezing off a few rounds in the general direction of the offending party.

To the extent that killings today are committed in pursuit of profits, you would likely be shocked to realize how little money is at stake. These are not Tony Montana/Soprano situations where drug lords are liquidated over millions in drug profits but rather random low-level street thugs shooting at each other over dime bags.

Furthermore, and of vastly more importance is the quantity of innocent bystanders put at risk and killed. In the 1929 attack the targets were lured to a warehouse specifically to avoid endangering "civilians". Today's urban killings frequently result in bystanders being wounded or killed because today's thugs tend to employ "spray and pray" tactics that are inherently dangerous to everyone not just the actual targets.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 14, 2023, 01:05:11 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

St. Valentine's Day Massacre (1929)
They think/evidence suggests Big Al hired trigger men from Detroit's Purple Gang so they wouldn't be recognized
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2023, 08:42:50 AM
The Great Mississippi Flood

The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 was the most destructive river flood in US history. Following heavy rains in 1926, the Mississippi River broke out of its levee system in 145 places, causing over $400 million in damages and killing 246 people in seven states. After the disaster, the federal government took over flood-control work—stabilizing river banks, improving channels, and constructing levees, floodwalls, floodways, and reservoirs. What famous song was written about the flood?

The aftermath of the flood was one factor in the Great Migration of African-Americans to northern cities. During an era in which racism was commonplace, blacks built levees at gunpoint, starved in refugee camps and many were left to fend for themselves during the flood, while whites were rescued.[6] Previously, the move from the rural South to the Northern cities had virtually stopped. The flood waters began to recede in June 1927, but interracial relations continued to be strained. Hostilities had erupted between the races; a black man was shot by a white police officer when he refused to be conscripted to unload a relief boat.[7][8] As a result of displacements lasting up to six months, tens of thousands of local African-Americans moved to the big cities of the North, particularly Chicago; many thousands more followed in the following decades.

https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Great+Mississippi+Flood (https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Great+Mississippi+Flood)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2023, 09:08:17 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Kyoto Protocol Comes into Force (2005)
The 1992 Earth Summit held in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, produced a treaty aimed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions in order to combat global warming. Representatives of 172 nations agreed to work toward the sustainable development of the planet, although most of the agreements were not legally binding. In 1997, an amendment was negotiated called the Kyoto Protocol, by which participating nations commit to reduce their emissions of carbon dioxide.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2023, 02:14:36 PM
Interesting read.

On this day in history, Feb. 17, 1801, Jefferson is elected president as party politics divide new nation | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/this-day-history-feb-17-1801-jefferson-elected-president-party-politics-nation)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2023, 11:10:52 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Battle of Gallipoli Begins (1915)
The Battle of Gallipoli took place on the Turkish peninsula of Gallipoli during World War I. It was initiated by the Allies to open a Black Sea supply route to Russia and capture the Ottoman capital of Constantinople. The Allied navy arrived at Gallipoli in February 1915 but did not get sufficient land support for two months, giving the Turkish army ample time to reinforce its troops. After months of fighting, the Allied forces withdrew in January 1916.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2023, 12:16:55 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Kyoto Protocol Comes into Force
Always hated the creeky attempt at catchy names they gave these summits/agreements - accords/protocols or such. Put at least as much effort into solving problems as you do bullshitting your constituents that something was actually being done
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2023, 02:47:49 PM
February 22, 1980.

(https://i.imgur.com/E2x2BHk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 23, 2023, 12:56:05 AM
78 years ago today the USMC captured Mount Suribachi.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 23, 2023, 01:41:45 PM
78 years ago today the USMC captured Mount Suribachi.
https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/this-day-history-feb-23-1945-us-marines-raise-american-flag-over-iwo-jima.amp
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2023, 08:18:54 PM
February 22, 1980.

[img width=500 height=280.996]https://i.imgur.com/E2x2BHk.png[/img]
a junior in high school...  purchased my first car, $700 - didn't borrow money
I pumped gasoline for $3.25/hour
Gas went over $1/gallon
cigarettes were 60 cents a pack, $5.75 a carton
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2023, 09:01:01 PM
Testing football helmets, 1912

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/331081415_1727952864300983_915270790833003757_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xsh7XJsf-RQAX81TIHe&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfC_pXcXEAXIpkXaGbXSCSovgZGoqvsbKA-SpwX_useT6A&oe=63FC5867)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2023, 09:58:15 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Marbury v. Madison Establishes Judicial Review (1803)
Marbury v. Madison was a landmark case in American law that resulted in the first decision by the Supreme Court to declare unconstitutional and void an act passed by Congress. It established the basis for the exercise of judicial review of federal statutes by the US Supreme Court. By identifying the Supreme Court as the authoritative interpreter of the Constitution, this decision bolstered power, respect, and prestige in the federal judiciary.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2023, 09:16:02 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Radar Is Demonstrated (1935)
Radar is a means for detecting the position, movement, and nature of a remote object through radio waves reflected from its surface. During the 1930s, several countries independently developed the technology for military use, exploiting radar's capacity to detect aircrafts and ships. One of the earliest practical radar systems was devised by Sir Robert Watson-Watt, a Scottish physicist and descendent of the inventor of the steam engine, James Watt.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 26, 2023, 10:41:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Radar Is Demonstrated (1935)
Radar is a means for detecting the position, movement, and nature of a remote object through radio waves reflected from its surface. During the 1930s, several countries independently developed the technology for military use, exploiting radar's capacity to detect aircrafts and ships. One of the earliest practical radar systems was devised by Sir Robert Watson-Watt, a Scottish physicist and descendent of the inventor of the steam engine, James Watt.
You guys my age and older may remember the early microwaves called "Radar Range".

Microwave ovens were invented accidentally when a WWII Radar researcher's candy bar melted in his pocket near a Radar wave emitting device.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2023, 10:52:33 AM
You guys my age and older may remember the early microwaves called "Radar Range".

Microwave ovens were invented accidentally when a WWII Radar researcher's candy bar melted in his pocket near a Radar wave emitting device.
We had one. We were told to stay away from it while it was on.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2023, 10:53:15 AM
my grandparents had a very early Amana "Radar Range"

late 60's early 70's

I used it in college in the early 80's

was heavy
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2023, 10:56:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yS6msas.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on February 26, 2023, 12:02:13 PM
a junior in high school...  purchased my first car, $700 - didn't borrow money
I pumped gasoline for $3.25/hour
Gas went over $1/gallon
cigarettes were 60 cents a pack, $5.75 a carton
(https://i.imgur.com/ghBrHLQ.png)(https://i.imgur.com/RIlTOBz.png)(https://i.imgur.com/mSBg30Q.png)(https://i.imgur.com/DvvfNkK.png)(https://i.imgur.com/mMeHEN6.png)(https://i.imgur.com/lfDuXEM.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on February 26, 2023, 12:06:21 PM
I get why so many people are flustered about minimum wage.  It does seem unusually low.  

Could you buy a car for $3K now?  Certainly, but would it be better than your $700 one in 1980?  I think cigarettes are over $5.00 per pack now, but I think a lot of that is extra taxes we didn't have then.  Gas is cheaper now, but as you know that fluctuates a lot.  I remember gas being ~$1.00 per gallon for a long time in the 80's and 90's.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2023, 12:19:12 PM
got a deal on the 1970 Nova SS for $700, but I stole it from her.
her husband was not happy
don't get much of a used car today for $2,700

3.25/hr vs $12.50/hr
not many high school kids working for $12.50/hr these days
my job as gas station pump jockey has been fazed out

not gonna touch a pack of cigs for $2.50 today but, sin taxes
a carton for $23??
no wonder more folks don't smoke today

I always tell folks gas is cheap
$3.85 for gas would be a little high.  It's at $3.10 here now.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2023, 12:25:12 PM
I was up in the Chicago are around the holiday season and a lady in front of me bought a pack of cigs. 

$15.00 in NW Crook County.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 26, 2023, 02:11:12 PM
I get why so many people are flustered about minimum wage.  It does seem unusually low. 

Could you buy a car for $3K now?  Certainly, but would it be better than your $700 one in 1980?  I think cigarettes are over $5.00 per pack now, but I think a lot of that is extra taxes we didn't have then.  Gas is cheaper now, but as you know that fluctuates a lot.  I remember gas being ~$1.00 per gallon for a long time in the 80's and 90's. 
A $3K car now would be lightyears better than a car you could buy for $700 in 1980. It'd probably be better than a car you could buy for $10K in 1980. Car technology and reliability is so far ahead of what it was back then that you may only be able to buy a very high-mileage (150K) car in that range, at least as I search autotrader for cars in that range w/in 100 miles of where I live in SoCal. But it'll still be better than FF's 1970 Nova. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2023, 02:15:44 PM
better in some ways

the 70 Nova SS with less than 70,000 miles would be worth more than $4K today
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2023, 02:23:31 PM
American frontiersman BUFFALO BILL was born on this day in Scott County, Iowa in 1846 (Feb 26, 1846 – Jan 10, 1917)

When Cody died of kidney failure in January 1917, his body ended up on a mountain outside of Denver, Colorado—a counterintuitive choice given his close ties to the town in Wyoming that bore his last name. Cody, Wyoming was founded in the 1890s with help from Buffalo Bill, who employed many of its residents and was responsible for its tourism business. It might seem natural that he’d be buried in the place he’d invested so much in, but he wasn’t. And that’s where the controversy began.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/502531/weird-story-buffalo-bills-body?a_aid=46813&fbclid=IwAR070vMwjpTvhGGb7j2pzdq5gUFBT9bjqlxePjgYTqsXLNdkroeUXf7yZdE (https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/502531/weird-story-buffalo-bills-body?a_aid=46813&fbclid=IwAR070vMwjpTvhGGb7j2pzdq5gUFBT9bjqlxePjgYTqsXLNdkroeUXf7yZdE)


Though Cody spent much of his time in the town named after him, he also loved Colorado. After leaving his family in Kansas when he was just 11 to work with wagon trains throughout the West, he headed to Colorado for the first time as a 13-year-old wannabe gold prospector. During his short time in the area, he chased the glittery fortunes promised by Colorado’s 1859 gold rush. Even after leaving the territory, his traveling vaudeville show, which brought a glamorous taste of Wild West life to people all over the United States, took him back often. Later in life, he frequently visited Denver, where his sister lived. He died there, too—after telling his wife he wanted to be buried on Lookout Mountain.

Meanwhile, Colorado and Wyoming started a heated feud over one of America’s most famous men. Wyoming claimed that Cody should be buried there, citing an early draft of his will that said he intended to be buried near Cody. Colorado cried foul, since Cody’s last will left the burial location up to his widow, who chose Lookout Mountain. Rumors even began to circulate that a delegation from Wyoming had stolen Cody’s body from the mortuary and replaced it with that of a local vagrant.

In part to stop the rumor mill, Cody was finally buried in an open casket on Lookout Mountain in June 1917. Twenty-five thousand people went to the mountaintop to bid him farewell before he was interred. To prevent theft, the bronze casket was sealed in another, tamper-proof case, then enclosed in concrete and iron.

Yet his rocky grave was anything but safe. In the 1920s, Cody’s niece, Mary Jester Allen, began to claim that Denver had conspired to tamper with Cody’s will. In response, Cody’s foster son, Johnny Baker, disinterred the body and had it reburied at the same site under tons of concrete to prevent potential theft

The saga wasn’t over yet. In 1948, the Cody, Wyoming American Legion offered a $10,000 reward to anyone who could disinter the body and return it to Wyoming. In response, the Colorado National Guard stationed officers to keep watch over the grave.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2023, 05:40:12 PM
my grandparents had a very early Amana "Radar Range"

late 60's early 70's

I used it in college in the early 80's

was heavy
And it doesn't appear that any of your circuits are fried :D
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2023, 05:57:28 PM
as far as you know
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2023, 06:16:17 PM
A $3K car now would be lightyears better than a car you could buy for $700 in 1980. It'd probably be better than a car you could buy for $10K in 1980. Car technology and reliability is so far ahead of what it was back then that you may only be able to buy a very high-mileage (150K) car in that range, at least as I search autotrader for cars in that range w/in 100 miles of where I live in SoCal. But it'll still be better than FF's 1970 Nova.
I can honestly say none of my cars(mostly beaters) left me by the side of the road back in the day.At one time or another I had 10-11 yr old Impala I drove over 2yr, a 6 yr old 6cl.Nova i drove 4 yrs then an 11 yr old Dart I drove for 3 yrs,then a 7 yr old Grand Prix I drove for 3 yrs then a 8 yr old Rabbit i drove for 2yrs. The last one had fuse box problems so but I carried fuses and popped them back in. Tires were the problem seems at least 1-2x a yr there would be flat. up to about the 90's. Bought a brand new Corolla then and had that for 16 yrs - rust got it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2023, 08:52:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Raid on the Branch Davidian Compound (1993)
After investigating charges of child abuse and the illegal stockpiling of weapons at the Texas ranch of the Branch Davidian religious sect, US federal law enforcement agents raided the compound. The confrontation turned violent, and 10 people were killed in the firefight. A siege of the compound ended 51 days later, when the complex was engulfed in flames. At least 76 people, including Davidian leader David Koresh, died in the incident.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 01, 2023, 08:57:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Salem Witch Trials Begin (1692)
Viewed by many to be the result of a period of factional infighting and religious hysteria, the witch trials of Puritanical Salem Village, Massachusetts, led to the executions of 20 people—15 women and five men—and the imprisonment of approximately 150 accused witches. Even after the trials ended, people who had previously been found not guilty of witchcraft remained in prison, held until they paid their jail fees.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 01, 2023, 03:31:37 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/334052434_887856239136297_661713843074433943_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=ggtnz4vz_JMAX_X8B3U&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAS2jmqFHASvKVkTiA9H7Mb6OoM8rjmyfykd5HBib93VA&oe=640435F0)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on March 01, 2023, 04:06:59 PM
Texas Independence Day is tomorrow.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2023, 11:20:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Wilt Chamberlain's 100-Point Game (1962)
Recognized as one of the National Basketball Association's greatest players of all time, Wilt Chamberlain led the league in scoring for 7 seasons and in rebounding 11 times, was named the NBA's Most Valuable Player 4 times, and was elected to basketball's Hall of Fame. However, he is perhaps best known for being the only player in league history to score 100 points in a single game—a feat he achieved while playing for the Philadelphia Warriors.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 02, 2023, 08:58:40 PM
Born on this Day

Theodor Seuss Geisel - March 2, 1904

Lou Reed - March 2, 1942

John Bon Jovi Jr. - March 2, 1962

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2023, 09:05:31 PM
https://youtu.be/Qc-bwzN6IVk
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 02, 2023, 10:24:21 PM


A rare photo of logging drivers on the Hudson River near Glens Falls, New York in 1907.


(https://i.imgur.com/WR4OGRK.png)


Chief Dust Maker, from the Ponca tribe in northern Nebraska, 1898.

(https://i.imgur.com/bmdMYKb.png)


Portrait of Kaw-U-Tz of the Caddo Nation in 1906.

(https://i.imgur.com/Ltr1U8h.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2023, 10:40:57 AM
The Polish physicist Marie Sklodowska Curie (1867-1934) first demonstrated in 1898 that Potassium Uranyl Sulfate, a compound which glowed after exposure to sunlight, emitted radiation because it contains the Uranium atom, and that any compound containing Uranium would also emit radiation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2023, 08:10:55 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Boston Massacre (1770)
Many Bostonians resented the heavy British military presence in their city during the late 1700s, and the soldiers' enforcement of the unpopular Townshend Acts merely exacerbated the tense situation. On March 5, 1770, soldiers opened fire on an aggressive, rioting civilian mob, killing five men. The Boston Massacre, as it became known, fueled the anti-British sentiment that culminated in the American Revolutionary War. Which future US president served as the troops' defense lawyer?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 06, 2023, 07:50:08 AM
John Adams or Washington I remember reading they both used their skills on drafting legal documents like the Constitution or Declaration of Independence
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2023, 07:44:20 AM
"Freedom Fries"

"Freedom fries" was a short-lived name used by some in the US for French fries after France resisted condoning the 2003 invasion of Iraq. In March, 2003, all references to French fries and French toast on the menus of restaurants run by the House of Representatives were removed. By July 2006, however, the move had been reversed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2023, 08:21:16 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Gnadenhütten Massacre (1782)
During the American Revolution, the Lenape, or Delaware, group of Native Americans found itself divided on the issue of which side, if any, to take in the conflict. Some members elected to fight against the Americans, while others—particularly Christian converts—remained neutral. In 1782, an American militia seeking revenge for Native American raids on frontier settlements killed 96 Christian Delawares in Gnadenhütten, Ohio.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2023, 09:08:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations Is Published (1776)
Published in 1776, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations is the magnum opus of Scottish economist Adam Smith. It is a clearly written account of political economy at the dawn of the Industrial Revolution and is considered the first modern work in the field of economics. In it, Smith postulates the theory of the division of labor and emphasizes that value arises from the labor expended in the process of production.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2023, 04:51:59 PM
Atchison was born in August 1807 in what’s known today as Lexington, Kentucky, and he studied law in his home state before relocating to Missouri. After he opened his own firm, though, he carved out his place in history by working for Joseph Smith. Smith, in case you didn’t know, was the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – otherwise known as the Mormon Church.

In 1833 there was a movement to expel Smith’s followers, popularly referred to as Mormons, from Jackson County, MI. But Atchison stepped forward to defend them, winning himself a whole heap of fans in the process. And after being backed by these supporters, he was able to secure a seat in the state’s House of Representatives in 1834.

Still, the Mormons’ troubles weren’t over, and in 1838 the persecution escalated into all-out war. That year, Atchison joined the state militia, serving as a senior officer and helping to control the fighting that was erupting across the state. Then, after peace of a sort was reached, he went on to take a post as a judge in the state court.

Ultimately, though, Atchison was destined for bigger and better things. But how did this promising career culminate in the shortest presidential term in recorded history? Well, the Kentucky native’s ascent to power began in 1843, when he was called upon to step into an empty U.S. Senate seat.

Atchison, being just 36 years old, was far younger than many of the men he served alongside. But that didn’t stop him from becoming well-liked among other Democrats. In fact, in 1845 he was appointed to a significant role within the Senate. This was a key development in the bizarre saga that was to come.

However, while Atchison’s support for the beleaguered Mormons may make him seem like a hero, he was actually nothing of the sort. While in the Senate, he spoke in support of slavery on numerous occasions. He also helped to bring in the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854. Thanks to this legislation, the practice of slavery spread to other states – causing further friction in antebellum America.

In fact, according to the U.S. Senate’s own website, Atchison once went so far as to threaten violence against members of the Abolitionist movement. And while this attitude earned Atchison the dubious distinction of having a town named after him in Kansas, it also contributed to the bloodshed that consumed the state. Ultimately, then, he may have helped to fan the flames of the Civil War.

So, how did a vehemently pro-slavery senator wind up as president when many were skirting around abolition? And did this issue have anything to do with the laughable length of his term? Certainly, slavery was a topic that would make or break a number of political careers over the years.

In reality, though, what happened in 1849 was something altogether more bizarre. You see, during the early days of Atchinson’s stint in the Senate, the White House was occupied by President James K. Polk. However, before his election in 1844, Polk had promised to limit his tenure to just a single term.

Keeping his word, Polk left office at precisely midday on March 4, 1849. According to tradition, that was when the next president, the aforementioned Zachary Taylor, should’ve been sworn in. That year, though, Inauguration Day fell on a Sunday – a day that strict Christians tend to reserve for rest.

As a result, the staunchly religious Taylor pushed his inauguration ceremony back to March 5. But with Polk leaving office a day earlier, there was an undeniable gap. Does this mean someone else had been president between one man standing down and the next taking office? According to some historians, it did, and the man who filled the role was Atchison.

This isn’t as far-fetched a prospect as you may think. Back in 1845, Atchison had been appointed president pro tempore of the Senate. Essentially, this meant it was his job to watch over proceedings when the vice president, who was usually in charge at the Senate, was otherwise engaged.

But there was another element to Atchison’s title, and it’s this that inspired one of antebellum America’s strangest political stories. According to the laws of the time, the president pro tempore was also second in line to the presidency. So, technically, if anything had happened to both Polk and his vice president, then Atchison would have been in charge.

Of course, nothing untoward happened to Polk. But he did leave a vacuum of power behind when he stepped down – one that would not be filled for 24 hours. And given that the vice president’s term would also have ended at the same juncture, that may have left Atchison as de facto leader of the country.

Just seven days after Taylor’s eventual inauguration, the Virginia newspaper the Alexandria Gazette published an article seemingly confirming the bizarre theory. It read, “[Atchison] was on Sunday, by virtue of his office, president of the United States – for one day!”

And in 1907 the Philadelphia Press claimed that Atchison had embraced his temporary role with gusto. The newspaper revealed, “That Senator Atchison considered himself president there was no doubt. For on Monday morning, when the Senate reassembled, he sent to the White House for the seal of the great office and signed one or two official papers as president.”

That wasn’t all. According to the Senate’s official website, the article went on to claim that Atchison’s fellow Democrats had jokingly proposed he stage a coup to stop Taylor from taking power. By this point, the story of the shortest presidency ever had spread far and wide, even appearing in the Biographical Directory of the United States Congress.

https://social.entrepreneur.com/s/one-day-president/?as=6dap23852909853900538&utm_source=fb&utm_medium=z020409&utm_content=23852909829700538&utm_campaign=6dap23852909853900538&bdk=z020409_63e26481aa299100083303a2 (https://social.entrepreneur.com/s/one-day-president/?as=6dap23852909853900538&utm_source=fb&utm_medium=z020409&utm_content=23852909829700538&utm_campaign=6dap23852909853900538&bdk=z020409_63e26481aa299100083303a2)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2023, 08:58:35 AM
The Madrid Train Bombings (2004)

On the morning of March 11, 2004, 10 explosions occurred aboard four commuter trains in Madrid. The series of coordinated bombings killed 191 people and wounded 2,050, making it the deadliest terrorist attack in Spain's history. Although a Basque militant group was originally suspected of the attack, an investigation revealed that it was carried out by an al-Qaeda-inspired terrorist cell. The bombings occurred three days before Spain's general elections
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2023, 08:39:11 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Truman Doctrine (1947)
In the early stages of the Cold War, US President Harry Truman sought to protect Turkey and Greece from falling under Soviet influence when the UK announced that it could no longer provide them with aid. The Truman Doctrine, which called for the US to "support free peoples who are resisting attempted subjugation by armed minorities or by outside pressures," shifted US foreign policy to a strategy of Soviet containment.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2023, 09:47:16 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Aw6DFUH.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2023, 01:52:58 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/335319048_228221626257223_2123839415719830519_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=8_kmMfiViXkAX9doAyv&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDwh_wsZeCG2_kFJtS0pn2w_76YGVOqUUySWV47nFYtKg&oe=641384A6)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2023, 09:53:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Operation Northwoods Proposed (1962)
Operation Northwoods was a plan proposed by the US Department of Defense to generate public support for military action against the Cuban government of Fidel Castro. To this end, it recommended staging acts of simulated or real terrorism and violence on US soil or against US interests and then placing the blame on Cuba. The plan, which was not implemented, was drafted by senior US defense leaders and signed by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 11:48:58 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/OEhF9PS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 01:55:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/jb5m6L6.png)

A demonstration of the cantilever principle of the Firth of Forth Bridge (Great Britain, 1887). The photo was taken for a lecture on the construction of the bridge at the Royal Institution.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2023, 01:56:57 PM
were they approved for funding of the bridge project?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 02:04:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/6SuCXbm.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 02:25:13 PM
The Tay Bridge Disaster - The Tay Bridge Disaster (http://taybridgedisaster.co.uk/)

At approximately 7:15 p.m. on the stormy night of 28 December 1879, the central navigation spans of the Tay bridge collapsed into the Firth of Tay at Dundee, taking with them a train, 6 carriages and 75 souls to their fate.
At the time, a gale estimated at Beaufort force 10/11 was blowing down the Tay estuary at right angles to the bridge. The collapse of the bridge, only opened 19 months and passed safe by the Board of Trade, sent shock waves through the Victorian engineering profession and general public.
The disaster is one of the most famous bridge failures and to date it is still one of the worst structural engineering failures in the British Isles. Detailed accounts of the disaster are given by Prebble(1) (http://taybridgedisaster.co.uk/#References) and Thomas(2) (http://taybridgedisaster.co.uk/#References). A fully revised new edition of David Swinfen's(3) (http://taybridgedisaster.co.uk/#References) book on the disaster has just been published. The book, utilising recent research, addresses the questions: What caused the disaster and who was to blame. In addition, it examines the question of how many lives were lost.
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaybridgedisaster.co.uk%2Fimages%2Fbelah1.jpg&hash=3858ba994345f941ac9af1e443af99ab)
The first Tay rail bridge was completed in February 1878 to the design of Thomas Bouch. Bouch was responsible for the design, construction and maintenance of the bridge. Most of his bridges were lattice girders supported on slender cast iron columns braced with wrought iron struts and ties, such as the Belah Viaduct in the photograph to the right. The building of the Tay bridge culminated in him being knighted. A modern account of the life and work of Bouch is by Rapley(17) (http://taybridgedisaster.co.uk/#References)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2023, 07:46:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
First Patient Successfully Treated with Penicillin (1942)
Penicillin was the first antibiotic agent successfully used to treat bacterial infections in humans. Penicillin's effect on bacteria was first observed by biologist Alexander Fleming in 1928, but it was not until 1941 that scientists purified the substance and established that it was both effective in fighting infectious organisms and not toxic to humans. The first successful treatment occurred the next year.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 09:00:56 AM
Sulfonamide drugs were the first broadly effective antibacterials to be used systemically, and paved the way for the antibiotic revolution in medicine. The first sulfonamide, trade-named Prontosil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prontosil), was a prodrug (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prodrug). Experiments with Prontosil began in 1932 in the laboratories of Bayer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer) AG, at that time a component of the huge German chemical trust IG Farben (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Farben). The Bayer team believed that coal-tar dyes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniline#History) which are able to bind preferentially to bacteria and parasites might be used to attack harmful organisms in the body. After years of fruitless trial-and-error work on hundreds of dyes, a team led by physician/researcher Gerhard Domagk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Domagk)[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-6) (working under the general direction of IG Farben executive Heinrich Hörlein (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Hörlein)) finally found one that worked: a red dye synthesized by Bayer chemist Josef Klarer (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Josef_Klarer&action=edit&redlink=1) that had remarkable effects on stopping some bacterial infections in mice.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-7) The first official communication about the breakthrough discovery was not published until 1935, more than two years after the drug was patented by Klarer and his research partner Fritz Mietzsch.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

Prontosil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prontosil), as Bayer named the new drug, was the first medicine ever discovered that could effectively treat a range of bacterial infections inside the body. It had a strong protective action against infections caused by streptococci (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streptococcus), including blood infections, childbed fever (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childbed_fever), and erysipelas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysipelas), and a lesser effect on infections caused by other cocci. However, it had no effect at all in the test tube, exerting its antibacterial action only in live animals. Later, it was discovered by Daniel Bovet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Bovet),[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-8) Federico Nitti, and Jacques (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Tréfouël_(chemist)) and Thérèse Tréfouël (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thérèse_Tréfouël), a French research team led by Ernest Fourneau (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Fourneau) at the Pasteur Institute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteur_Institute), that the drug was metabolized into two parts inside the body, releasing from the inactive dye portion a smaller, colorless, active compound called sulfanilamide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfanilamide).[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-9) The discovery helped establish the concept of "bioactivation" and dashed the German corporation's dreams of enormous profit; the active molecule sulfanilamide (or sulfa) had first been synthesized in 1906 and was widely used in the dye-making industry; its patent had since expired and the drug was available to anyone.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-britannica-10)

The result was a sulfa craze.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-wordpress-11) For several years in the late 1930s, hundreds of manufacturers produced myriad forms of sulfa. This and the lack of testing requirements led to the elixir sulfanilamide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elixir_sulfanilamide) disaster in the fall of 1937, during which at least 100 people were poisoned with diethylene glycol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylene_glycol). This led to the passage of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Food,_Drug,_and_Cosmetic_Act) in 1938 in the United States. As the first and only effective broad-spectrum antibiotic available in the years before penicillin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillin), heavy use of sulfa drugs continued into the early years of World War II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II).[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-att-12) They are credited with saving the lives of tens of thousands of patients, including Franklin Delano Roosevelt Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt_Jr.) (son of US President Franklin Delano Roosevelt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt)) and Winston Churchill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill).[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-13)[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-14) Sulfa had a central role in preventing wound infections during the war. American soldiers were issued a first-aid kit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-aid_kit) containing sulfa pills and powder and were told to sprinkle it on any open wound.[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-15)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 05:51:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/baWClOK.jpg)

It ain't nearly as simple as driving a car.  Navigation, for one thing, is interesting (preGPS).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 05:57:48 PM
12 March, 1971
On this day in 1971, American rock band the Allman Brothers Band began a two-night series of concerts at the Fillmore East in New York City; the shows were recorded and later released as a live album, "At Fillmore East", in July 1971 in the United States by Capricorn Records.
The live album features the band performing extended jam versions of songs such as "Whipping Post", "You Don't Love Me" and "In Memory of Elizabeth Reed." When first commercially released, it was issued as a double LP with just seven songs across four vinyl sides.
At Fillmore East was the band's artistic and commercial breakthrough, and is widely considered by some critics as one of the greatest live albums in rock music. It continues to be a top seller in the band's catalogue, and became their first album to go platinum.
In 2004, the album was selected for preservation in the US Library of Congress, deemed to be "culturally, historically, or aesthetically important" by the National Recording Registry.


(https://i.imgur.com/thE4lDl.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 16, 2023, 07:51:19 PM
Dwayne's not grabbing his crotch he's hiding a pipe they were passing around when the camerman was happening by. Possession wrap could have caused them to miss a gig - IMHO top 5 Album - EVA

:7505:  😎
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2023, 09:14:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Rubber Band Patented (1845)
In 1845, Stephen Perry, a British inventor and businessman, patented what is now a staple office supply—the rubber band. While their intended function is to hold items together, rubber bands have been used in a number of other capacities; they can be wrapped around one another to form a bouncy ball or used as "ammunition" in rubber band guns. Though many modern rubber products are commonly made with synthetic rubber, rubber bands are still primarily manufactured using natural rubber.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 09:09:57 AM
1985 Cadillac Fleetwood Tested: The Downsized Caddy Disappoints (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a43240023/1985-cadillac-fleetwood-by-the-numbers/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3H_-YOBWJSwtIAHmhxdtTKgQOOYkKZ8hzGMbbF0poVh_hBgPceM0gy5ss)

Interestingly, I'd argue the Escalade has saved Caddy using much the same kind of approach.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 09:13:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SABvPz5.png)

USS Iowa's Tube #270, the first 16-inch/Mark 7 gun ever built, is in the process of being moved from storage at Norfolk Naval Shipyard to Fort Story where it will be placed on exhibit near the Old Cape Henry Lighthouse. Tube #270 was installed in Iowa's turret 1 until being removed in 1954 to be relined and saved as a spare.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2023, 09:24:56 AM
1985 Cadillac Fleetwood Tested: The Downsized Caddy Disappoints (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a43240023/1985-cadillac-fleetwood-by-the-numbers/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3H_-YOBWJSwtIAHmhxdtTKgQOOYkKZ8hzGMbbF0poVh_hBgPceM0gy5ss)

Interestingly, I'd argue the Escalade has saved Caddy using much the same kind of approach.
times have changed in 40 years
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 09:28:38 AM
They have indeed, one of the car mags stated that Caddy makes the best BMWs today.  It has not helped Caddy much to do that, all their profit is in SUVs (none of which are particularly compelling versus competition).  They build some nice sedans and they just don't sell well.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 09:30:01 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/YjNXGSO.png)

It was a notion back in the day that these relationships would prevent a major war in Europe.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2023, 09:39:10 AM
if ya can't fight with your cousins, who can ya fight with?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 09:51:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/BVZ1MWA.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2023, 09:55:41 AM
They have indeed, one of the car mags stated that Caddy makes the best BMWs today.  It has not helped Caddy much to do that, all their profit is in SUVs (none of which are particularly compelling versus competition).  They build some nice sedans and they just don't sell well.
The '80's was the decade where the Big 3 all tried to kill themselves. So many terrible cars and so few good ones.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 09:57:58 AM
Cars in the 80s were all pretty bad, but the Hondas of the world were generally better.  They had a tendency to rust though.

Rust today is practically nonexistent.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 10:53:28 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/IpKuXKN.png)

I suspect younger folks today would be astonished at the level of development in much of the US circa 1940 and before.  My Dad was born into a house with no electricity.  Paved roads were pretty rare in his area.  Highways?  Nonexistent.  There was a toll road for wagons over the mountains.  US 19/129 did not exist (it still runs on the original grade).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 11:10:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/eHiCkrI.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 11:45:12 AM
The Beginning to the End of the Universe: The mystery of dark energy | Astronomy.com (https://astronomy.com/magazine/news/2021/02/the-beginning-to-the-end-of-the-universe-the-mystery-of-dark-energy?fbclid=IwAR19mIEfaefj5xOeRsCW1RfytvE6aI7MDi3br-UWvrhOp_pnXoR-nRK7D2w)


FROM THE JANUARY 2021 ISSUE (https://astronomy.com/issues/2021/january-2021)
The Beginning to the End of the Universe: The mystery of dark energy
The universe isn’t just expanding, it’s accelerating.
By Bruce Dorminey (https://astronomy.com/authors/bruce-dorminey)  |  Published: Monday, February 1, 2021
RELATED TOPICS: DARK ENERGY (https://astronomy.com/tags/dark-energy) | COSMOLOGY (https://astronomy.com/tags/cosmology)
In 1998, researchers discovered that something was causing the expansion of the universe to speed up.

NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center Conceptual Image Lab
This story comes from our special January 2021 issue, "The Beginning and the End of the Universe.” Click here to purchase the full issue. (https://myscienceshop.com/product/back-issue/asy210101-c)

For almost a century, astronomers have known that the universe is expanding. Space-time is stretching itself out over billions of light-years, carrying the galaxies within it apart, like raisins embedded within a rising loaf of bread. This steady expansion, pitted against the cosmos’ urge to collapse under its own gravity, means there are two main scenarios for how the universe will eventually end. These scenarios are dubbed the Big Crunch — where gravity overcomes expansion and the Big Bang occurs in reverse — and the Big Freeze — where gravity loses out to the expansion and all matter is isolated by unfathomable distances. (See “The Big Crunch vs. the Big Freeze,” page 50.)

For a while, researchers believed the universe’s fate was leaning toward the final scenario. But, in the late 1990s, astronomers discovered something unexpected that changed our understanding of the future of the universe: The most distant galaxies weren’t just moving away from us. They were accelerating.


A cosmological puzzle
This phenomenon was independently discovered by two teams of astronomers who were measuring distant supernovae to calculate the precise rate at which the universe was expanding, expecting to find it slowing down. Three of these scientists — Saul Perlmutter, Adam Riess, and Brian Schmidt — shared the 2011 Nobel Prize in Physics for their discovery.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 11:55:40 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/vVWRhuM.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 04:58:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/LoL7iOU.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2023, 05:51:13 PM
Opie was a fake???
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2023, 09:15:17 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Tuskegee Airmen Activated for Service (1941)
The Tuskegee Airmen, trained at Alabama's Tuskegee Army Air Field during WWII, made up the US military's first African-American flying unit. In 1941, congressional legislation forced the Army Air Corps to create an all-black combat unit, and though the War Department aimed to block its formation by instituting a number of restrictive guidelines for applicants, many qualified for service. In all, these airmen flew 1,578 missions, destroyed 261 enemy aircraft
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2023, 09:54:22 PM
During its career, the SR-71 Blackbird gathered intelligence in some of the world’s most hostile environments. The SR-71 was conceived to operate at extreme velocities, altitudes and temperatures: actually, it was the first aircraft constructed with titanium, as the friction caused by air molecules passing over its surface at Mach 2.6 would melt a conventional aluminum frame.

Its engineering was so cutting edge that even the tools to build the SR-71 needed to be designed from scratch.

There are so many interesting facts about the legendary Blackbird.

For instance, the glass of the canopy of the SR-71 cockpit was made of 1.25-inch thick solid quartz.

Yes, the solid quartz glass of the canopy was 1.25 inches thick and was hot to the touch from the inside!

According to Military Machine, pilots and RSOs, even with gloves on, couldn’t keep their hands by the glass for more than a few seconds without doing damage. The crewmembers wore David Clark Company’s pressured suits for their protection. The David Clark Company’s pressured suits made it possible for SR-71 crew members to fly at altitudes that would otherwise kill them! 

Let’s talk about the windows in the SR-71 and about the severe heat the windshield of the SR-71 would experience at top speeds. Skunk Works Designers ultimately decided that using solid quartz for the windshield was the best way to prevent any blur or window distortion under these conditions, so they ultrasonically fused the solid quartz to the aircraft’s titanium hull to make the quietest cockpit possible; the estimated temperature of the outside of the cockpit of 600 degrees F.

As reported by The SR-71 Blackbird website, the integrity of the double solid quartz camera window demanded special attention because of the optical distortion caused by the effect of great heat (600 degrees F.) on the outside of the window and a much lower temperature (150 degrees F.) on the inside could keep the cameras from taking usable photographs. Three years and $2 million later, the Corning Glass Works came up with a solution: the window was fused to its metal frame by a novel process using high frequency sound waves.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 05:23:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/W1y56F5.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2023, 08:38:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Subway Sarin Incident (1995)
On March 20, 1995, members of the Japanese religious sect Aum Shinrikyo released sarin gas, a nerve agent, on several lines of the Tokyo Metro system in five coordinated attacks, killing 12 and injuring thousands. Carrying homemade liquid sarin packaged in plastic bags, the perpetrators boarded the trains, punctured the packets, and left them to vaporize on the car floors. More than 10 Aum members were sentenced to death for their involvement in the incident.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 03:16:55 PM
The Industrial Confederacy: The Augusta Power Works — Civil Discourse (civildiscourse-historyblog.com) (http://civildiscourse-historyblog.com/blog/2021/4/27/the-industrial-confederacy-the-augusta-power-works)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2023, 09:31:01 PM
During its career, the SR-71 Blackbird gathered intelligence in some of the world’s most hostile environments. The SR-71 was conceived to operate at extreme velocities, altitudes and temperatures: actually, it was the first aircraft constructed with titanium, as the friction caused by air molecules passing over its surface at Mach 2.6 would melt a conventional aluminum frame.

Its engineering was so cutting edge that even the tools to build the SR-71 needed to be designed from scratch.

There are so many interesting facts about the legendary Blackbird.

For instance, the glass of the canopy of the SR-71 cockpit was made of 1.25-inch thick solid quartz.

Yes, the solid quartz glass of the canopy was 1.25 inches thick and was hot to the touch from the inside!

According to Military Machine, pilots and RSOs, even with gloves on, couldn’t keep their hands by the glass for more than a few seconds without doing damage. The crewmembers wore David Clark Company’s pressured suits for their protection. The David Clark Company’s pressured suits made it possible for SR-71 crew members to fly at altitudes that would otherwise kill them!

Let’s talk about the windows in the SR-71 and about the severe heat the windshield of the SR-71 would experience at top speeds. Skunk Works Designers ultimately decided that using solid quartz for the windshield was the best way to prevent any blur or window distortion under these conditions, so they ultrasonically fused the solid quartz to the aircraft’s titanium hull to make the quietest cockpit possible; the estimated temperature of the outside of the cockpit of 600 degrees F.

As reported by The SR-71 Blackbird website, the integrity of the double solid quartz camera window demanded special attention because of the optical distortion caused by the effect of great heat (600 degrees F.) on the outside of the window and a much lower temperature (150 degrees F.) on the inside could keep the cameras from taking usable photographs. Three years and $2 million later, the Corning Glass Works came up with a solution: the window was fused to its metal frame by a novel process using high frequency sound waves.


(https://i.imgur.com/ryFrytr.jpg)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2023, 07:00:39 AM
Top 22 Breakthroughs of 2022 vs. 1922 (diamandis.com) (https://www.diamandis.com/blog/2022breakthroughs)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 08:26:10 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Exxon Valdez Oil Spill (1989)
On March 24, 1989, the Exxon Valdez oil tanker hit Prince William Sound's Bligh Reef and spilled approximately 11 million US gallons (41 million liters) of crude oil into the sea, covering 11,000 square miles (28,000 km²) of ocean. As a result of the spill, an estimated 250,000 sea birds, 1,000 sea otters, and countless fish and other wildlife died. The ship's captain was widely criticized after the incident, but many others factors contributed to the crash.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 10:48:08 AM
The contiguous United States occupies an area of 3,119,884.69 square miles (8,080,464.3 km2). Of this area, 2,959,064.44 square miles (7,663,941.7 km2) is actual land, composing 83.65 percent of the country's total land area, and is slightly smaller than the area of Australia.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2023, 08:33:07 AM
Gulag

The Gulag was a system of forced-labor prison camps in the USSR, from the Russian acronym for the Main Directorate of Corrective Labor Camps, a department of the Soviet secret police. It was first established under Lenin during the early Bolshevik years and ultimately included 476 camp complexes. The system reached its peak after 1928 under Stalin, who used it to maintain the Soviet state by keeping its populace in a state of terror.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2023, 09:35:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/OTL7lDI.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2023, 09:44:03 AM
A Masters from Georgia. Not a degree in Athens –- a golf tournament in Augusta. And it was a hit off the first tee.
After golfer Bobby Jones retired, he and businessman Clifford Roberts developed a national landmark. Jones brought credibility, while Roberts had business savvy. Jones and noted golf course architect Alister Mackenzie designed the course on an abandoned 365-acre nursery called Fruitlands. It had been a plantation once.
Roberts and Jones wanted a major tournament at Augusta National, but when? Summer? Impossibly hot! But spring? Unbeatably beautiful! The flowers were in bloom and no other major tournament competed. They decided to stage an annual event hosted by Jones, who would come out of retirement once a year to play at what was first called the Augusta National Golf Club Invitation Tournament. Horton Smith won the first year. It officially became the Masters in 1939; the green jacket ceremony began in 1949.
One of the world’s iconic sporting events began on March 22, 1934,


(https://i.imgur.com/D3PIRRI.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2023, 04:26:47 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/IZGrXS0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2023, 05:11:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/aEpbvD3.png)

A thing which surprised me when I read about it was who Ptolemy was ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2023, 11:55:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/gueGbgb.png)

The little known side of transatlantic voyages.
Boiler men working deep in the Titanic.
48 survived of 167.
The ship had 29 boilers in total being fed coal 24 hours a day.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2023, 12:48:29 PM
https://youtu.be/4XFYMjkFYPg
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2023, 07:25:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Three Mile Island Accident (1979)
Both mechanical failure and human error contributed to the 1979 failure of a nuclear reactor cooling system at the Three Mile Island Nuclear Generating Station in Pennsylvania, which led to overheating, partial melting of the reactor's uranium core, and the release of radioactive gases. Though it caused no immediate deaths or injuries, the incident increased public fears about the safety of nuclear power.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2023, 08:11:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CA3upOz.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2023, 08:24:45 AM
been through there a few times, just 20 minutes south of the University of Iowa

nice golf course and casino along the Iowa river
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2023, 08:49:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/b6GKDNO.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2023, 09:11:51 AM
similar to stone soup
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2023, 09:46:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/aeBZLIa.png)

First bottling plant (opened in 1899, photo is later).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2023, 07:04:44 PM
I was looking at old CFB scores and results and found in 1911, UGA in football:

Beat Sewanee 12-7
Beat Mercer      8-5
Lost to Vandy 17-0
Beat Tech   5-0
Tied Auburn 0-0

and finished 7-1-1 ... I thought that rather strange.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2023, 07:10:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/WqDkrGM.png)

The Junkers G.38 - Once the largest airplane in the world with passengers on two flight decks and in the wings, and all engines being servicable in flight! Unusually, of the G.38’s four engines, two of them were different types. Both were Junkers diesel engines. Whilst similar on the surface, they were completely separate designs. [color=var(--blue-link)]https://planehistoria.com/pioneers/junkers-g-38/ (https://planehistoria.com/pioneers/junkers-g-38/?fbclid=IwAR0n-YwGKUtuClnwvg5s6O2Ei1qQoALJZ3QSpj0hMiUtrM3xPlQemN5a5AU)[/url][/font][/size][/color]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 07:13:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/siXg7Nv.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 07:15:04 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uROMl8f.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2023, 08:14:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uROMl8f.png)
The Milwaukee Braves were unique among professional sports franchises. When owner Lou Perini moved his National League baseball club from Boston to Milwaukee in March 1953, the Braves became the first major league ball club (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/professional-baseball) to change cities in half a century. The shift initiated a series of westward migrations by teams and provided the impetus for league expansion.

Perini’s decision to move the Braves to Wisconsin rested on three factors: attendance in Boston, in competition with the Red Sox, was sparse; Fred Miller (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/miller-brewing-company), president of the brewery that produced Miller High Life, provided Perini moral support and advertising revenue; and newly-built Milwaukee County Stadium (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/milwaukee-county-stadium), which offered parking for nearly 10,000 cars (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/tailgating), was ready to receive a big-league tenant.

County Stadium was the first major league ballpark built with lights (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/energy) (other teams had added lights to pre-existing stadiums) and the first paid for entirely with public funds. The stadium had actually been built for the minor league Milwaukee Brewers (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/milwaukee-brewers). Because Perini also owned the Brewers, he was able to transfer his Milwaukee farm club to Toledo to make way for the Braves.

Milwaukee fans inherited an array of heroes to worship. They had handsome young slugger Eddie Mathews, who led the majors in home runs. They had high-kicking southpaw Warren Spahn, on his way to the Hall of Fame. They had powerful Joe Adcock, feisty Johnny Logan, speedy Billy Bruton, Wisconsin farm boy Andy Pafko—and the next spring they added the legend-in-the-making Henry Aaron (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/henry-aaron).

The Milwaukee Braves quickly became the sensation of baseball. Local merchants showered the ballplayers with gifts, from dry-cleaning service to fermented beverages (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/brewing). Fans packed the grandstand and cheered every move by anyone in a Braves uniform. The Braves led the league almost until July and wound up in second behind the Brooklyn Dodgers.

Despite playing in a ballpark without bleachers in center or right field, and with no advance ticket sales, the Braves established a National League attendance record of 1,826,397. The following year they surpassed that number by more than 300,000.

The Braves reached the pinnacle of their sport in 1957, polishing off Casey Stengel’s New York Yankees to capture the World Series. Lew Burdette hurled three complete-game victories, including two shutouts, to bring the championship to “Bushville,” which Milwaukee legend suggests was the sobriquet applied to the city by the Yankees.

In 1958 the Braves repeated as pennant winners but fell to the Yankees in the World Series, four games to three. The following season Milwaukee tied for first but lost to the L.A. Dodgers in a playoff.

As attendance declined, Perini sold the Braves in November 1962 to a group of investors from Chicago. They tried to move the club to Atlanta after the 1964 season, but the stadium lease held them in Milwaukee through 1965. State Attorney General Bronson La Follette sued to keep the team, but on Opening Day 1966 the once-beloved Braves, who had never experienced a losing season in 13 years in Milwaukee, were playing in Atlanta Stadium.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 08:19:24 AM
Atlanta stadium was built for $16 million (and it showed) and cost $68 million to demolish and cart away.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2023, 08:58:39 AM
Atlanta really likes building stadiums for its teams.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 09:42:39 AM
They do, and they like tearing down old ones.  The old Turner Field is now the football stadium for Georgia State.  At least the MB dome was not using city monies.  (Well, it's a tax paid by visitors etc.)  

Folks here voted a new sales tax for MARTA a few years back and today there is a lot of concern about where that money went, it doesn't seem to have gone into transit.

Cities ...

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 29, 2023, 09:50:27 AM
Atlanta really likes building stadiums for its teams.
They do, and they like tearing down old ones.  The old Turner Field is now the football stadium for Georgia State. 
Good they can Build a roof in Cleveland for us. BROWNS owner Jimmy Hasbeen has been rattling sabers he wants one.They have passed I don't know 3-4 sin taxes since '94 - EFF them. The slime ball in a sea of puss owner just last year gave a 230 million guaranteed contract to a QB with no less than 25 sexual misconduct/harrassment charges against him. And Jimmy Hasbeen should seriously be doing time for fraud
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 09:53:33 AM
Pass a hotel tax and rental car tax and pay for it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2023, 10:17:17 AM
Do enough tourists visit Cleveland to pay for a dome? Conventions?

???
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2023, 10:51:59 AM
rock and roll hall of fame
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2023, 10:52:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ireland Bans Smoking in All Public Places (2004)
In the latter part of the 20th century, research on the health risks of secondhand tobacco smoke spurred legislative bodies throughout the world to consider smoking bans. On March 29, 2004, Ireland became the first country to implement a nationwide ban on smoking in public places, including all enclosed workplaces. Many nations have since followed with similar legislation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 11:05:00 AM
Funding is an insue for smaller cities when it comes to stadia.  Film at 11.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on March 29, 2023, 11:25:17 AM
Good they can Build a roof in Cleveland for us. BROWNS owner Jimmy Hasbeen has been rattling sabers he wants one.They have passed I don't know 3-4 sin taxes since '94 - EFF them. The slime ball in a sea of puss owner just last year gave a 230 million guaranteed contract to a QB with no less than 25 sexual misconduct/harrassment charges against him. And Jimmy Hasbeen should seriously be doing time for fraud
He actually just said the other day at the Owners Meeting that he is in favor of renovating First Energy rather than building a new stadium. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2023, 02:48:57 PM
https://youtu.be/Lb-3ks6F1b8
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 08:03:07 AM

[th]This Day in History[/th]
[th]
  • (http://www.facebook.com/share.php?u=https://www.thefreedictionary.com%2F_%2Farchive.htm.aspx%3Fshr%3Dh19446)
  • (https://twitter.com/share?url=https://www.thefreedictionary.com%2F_%2Farchive.htm.aspx%3Fshr%3Dh19446&text=This Day in History%3A US President Ronald Reagan Is Shot)
  • (https://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/WoD/rss.aspx?type=history)
[/th]
(https://img.tfd.com/IOD/Reagan_recovering_after_being_shot_1981.jpg) (https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Reagan+assassination+attempt)
US President Ronald Reagan Is Shot (1981) (https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Reagan+assassination+attempt)
Just 69 days into his presidency, Ronald Reagan was shot in Washington, DC, along with three others. The would-be assassin, John Hinckley, Jr., was motivated by an obsession with actress Jodie Foster and the film Taxi Driver. Reagan soon recovered, and Hinckley was found not guilty by reason of insanity and confined to a psychiatric facility. While Reagan was hospitalized, Secretary of State Alexander Haig made a controversial statement about presidential succession

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2023, 09:30:54 AM
Today in history: April 1

In 1976, Apple Computer was founded by Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak and Ronald Wayne.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2023, 09:36:28 AM
My step son has a photo of him and Wozniak, it's pretty cool.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2023, 08:12:16 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Congresswoman in US History Takes Her Seat (1917)
Sometimes referred to as the "Lady of the House," Jeannette Rankin was the first woman to be elected to the US House of Representatives and the first female member of Congress. Just days into her term, she drew the ire of the press by voting, along with 56 others, against the resolution to enter WWI. In 1940, Rankin was again elected to Congress and once again voted against entering a world war, though this time she was the only Congress member to do so.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 08:33:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2ekrcja.png)

The offices of the Central Social Institution of Prague with the largest vertical letter file in the world, 1937. Those people in lifting desks were at the controls of 3000 drawers of information.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 11:30:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XvE2PHK.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 03:10:12 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/jUw53eo.png)

Harvester of thirty-three horses. USA, 1902.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 03:18:47 PM
30 just wasn't quite as efficient

apparently
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 03:32:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8ndzBBk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2023, 09:06:50 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of the Ice (1242)
The Teutonic Knights attacked the Republic of Novgorod in 1242 as part of their Northern Crusades, which were directed against pagans and Eastern Orthodox Christians rather than Muslims in the Holy Land. Waged on the frozen surface of Lake Peipus, which now sits on the border of Estonia and Russia, the Battle of the Ice proved disastrous for the knights. Though some historians consider the battle a major turning point in the Northern Crusades, others believe it was only a minor skirmish.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2023, 01:00:27 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Opening of the First Modern Olympic Games (1896)
In 1894, after efforts by Frenchman Pierre de Coubertin to revive the ancient Greek Olympics, the newly established International Olympic Committee appointed the Greek capital of Athens as the host city for the first modern international Olympic Games. Held between April 6 and 15, 1896, the games drew athletes from 14 countries for several athletic events, including the first modern marathon.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 10:05:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/VB2kTXa.jpg)

The Convair XC-99 began life as an experimental transport aircraft and is perhaps one of the most unique designs of a larger plane by using the pusher formation. Designed in the late 1940s as a variant of the Convair B-36 Peacemaker bomber, the XC-99 held the record as the largest piston-driven propeller plane constructed in the United States. [color=var(--blue-link)]https://planehistoria.com/cold-war/convair-xc-99/ (https://planehistoria.com/cold-war/convair-xc-99/?fbclid=IwAR1trsYex3fly_UbEUDtPoOT_gg2B-f-zw_TN14lmXtbzh6GKHUPvVg4t5U)[/url][/font][/size][/color]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 07, 2023, 11:41:57 AM
Canals:
The canal era was remarkably shortlived due to canals being quickly overtaken by rail as a means of transport but nonetheless, the canal era left a lasting mark on our country, particularly the area of most of the core of our conference, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.  

First some background:
My home city of Medina, Ohio was established in 1818.  People who lived here then were basically subsistence farmers living in a near-wilderness with little or no connection to the outside world.  The land of the upper Midwest was (and is) some of the best farmland in the world so a family farm, even in those early days, could easily produce more grain than the family consumed but it was difficult to sell the excess.  The problem was that basically everybody living here was farming and they all had their own surplus agricultural products so there was little or no local market since everybody was looking to sell so there weren't buyers.  

If you look at a map, there are two basic ways to get surplus agricultural products from the upper Midwest to the national and world market:


There were several major problems with the Mississippi:
Steam boats did not appear on the Mississippi until 1811 and they didn't appear in large numbers until much later.  Before the advent of steamboats it was, of course, possible to build a riverboat anywhere along the Mississippi or it tributaries and float it down to NOLA using the current but the crew had to walk back.  Incidentally, the boats were sold for lumber in NOLA and the lumber was used to build houses in NOLA and for the NOLA shipbuilding industry.  The problem was that doing all this just to bring back money that you couldn't buy anything with was pointless.  Midwestern farmers wanted European and East Coast manufactured goods such as plows but bringing anything upriver was extremely difficult and generally cost prohibitive.  

A second problem, at least for those living east of Louisville, Kentucky was that there is a natural falls on the Ohio River at Louisville.  Until a Canal was built around it there were several options to deal with this issue:

There were several major problems with the overland route:
First it is a long trip.  Second, there are mountains to cross.  Third, wagons carry substantially smaller amounts of cargo than even relatively small riverboats.  The usual solution to this was to distill the surplus grain into whiskey which could be more economically shipped by putting it barrels and loading the barrels into wagons.  This led to the Whiskey Rebellion during Washington's Presidency when farmers in Western PA violently opposed tax increases on their product.  

All of these problems were solved in remarkably rapid succession:

I'm focused here on Canals specifically.  The opening of the Erie Canal converted literally thousands of frontier wilderness famers in the upper Midwest into members of the global economy.  Agricultural products were sent by boat along lakes Superior, Michigan, Huron, and Erie (and various rivers flowing into them) to Buffalo then floated East on the Erie Canal to Albany then downriver to NYC where these products were part of the international market.  On the return trip manufactured goods from the Eastern United States and Europe were shipped up to Albany, West along the Erie Canal to Buffalo, then on the Great lakes to places as far away as Duluth.  

The impact of the Erie Canal on this region cannot be overstated.  

Akron:
As  evident from my username here, I live in Medina, Ohio.  Medina is the County Seat of Medina County which is immediately West of Summit County in which Akron is located.  Akron was not founded until 1825 and the name comes from an ancient Greek word meaning Summit or high point.  Thus Akron and Summit County are both named for the fact that the high point of the Ohio and Erie Canal (from Cleveland to Portsmouth) is in the City of Akron.  

As noted above, Akron was not founded until 1825.  Contrast Medina which was founded in 1818 and Ravenna which was founded in 1799.  Akron's whole reason for existence is the canal.  Prior to the building of the canal, the "big" cities in this area were the Ravenna, the County seat of Portage County which is immediately East of Summit County and Medina, the County Seat of Medina County which is immediately West of Summit County.  Speaking of Counties, Summit County was not formed until 1840 when it was carved out of Portage, Medina, and Stark (to the South, Canton).  The reason it was formed was that due to the growth of Akron as the canal business exploded the businesses of Akron complained to the State that their legal issues had to be resolved miles away in the courts in Medina and Ravenna and they wanted their own County.  

The Ohio and Erie Canal in Ohio was related to the Erie Canal in New York in that without the Erie Canal in New York the Ohio and Erie Canal in Ohio would have served little purpose.  It would have facilitated trade within the State and beyond along the Great Lakes (excluding Ontario) but there was little demand for that as basically everybody living there had the same products to sell.  The completion of the Erie Canal in New York meant that the Great Lakes were part of the global market and thus subsidiary canals into the interior such as the Ohio and Erie Canal opened up those areas to the global market.  

Ironically, the Ohio and Erie Canal only carried freight for 34 years from 1827-1861.  By 1861 demand ended due to more efficient and reliable (year around) competition from Railroads.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 12:52:28 PM
17 Curious Facts About the Miami & Erie Canal - Cincinnati Magazine (https://www.cincinnatimagazine.com/article/17-curious-facts-about-the-miami-erie-canal/#:~:text=The Miami %26 Erie Canal extended,aqueducts and employed 106 locks.)

Even those former boys who in their dotage fondly remembered swimming in the Miami & Erie Canal recalled the stench from industrial wastes including grease, acids, and chemical salts; rotting animal carcasses; the occasional corpse; and the contents of innumerable chamber pots emptied into the stream from tenements along the banks. When a swimmer yelled “floater,” there was no telling what was on the way, but everyone scrambled out of the water.

(https://i.imgur.com/aAlXxrG.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 12:58:03 PM
Watch | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=579916227405773)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 01:07:11 PM
This is one of the neatest things I've seen, a canal bridge over a fairly large river.

Canal de Briare Guide: One of the Oldest Canals in France : European Waterways (https://www.europeanwaterways.com/blog/canal-de-briare/)

(https://i.imgur.com/L4uxdlb.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 01:41:12 PM
The Swedish warship Vasa sank after sailing roughly 1,300 m (1,400 yd) into her maiden voyage on 10 August 1628
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2023, 01:50:05 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Beer_Day_%28United_States%29

National Beer Day is celebrated in the United States every year on April 7, marking the day that the Cullen–Harrison Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cullen–Harrison_Act) came into force after having been signed into law by President Franklin D. Roosevelt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt) on March 22, 1933. This led to the Eighteenth Amendment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) being repealed on December 5, 1933, with the ratification of the Twenty-first Amendment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-first_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution).[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Beer_Day_(United_States)#cite_note-1) April 6, the day prior to National Beer Day, is known as New Beer's Eve.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on April 07, 2023, 02:19:35 PM
I'm down to celebrate NBD.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2023, 06:49:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Krak des Chevaliers Conquered (1271)
One of the most important preserved medieval military castles in the world, the Krak des Chevaliers in Syria was the headquarters of the Knights Hospitaller during the Crusades. The largest Crusader fortress in the Holy Land, it could hold up to 2,000 soldiers and included a chapel, a storage facility, and two stables that could accommodate up to 1,000 horses. Though it is estimated that the Hospitallers could have withstood a siege for five years, the fortress was captured in 1271.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2023, 06:57:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nDVgXG9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2023, 10:20:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/27AU6ml.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2023, 02:34:16 PM
Weird 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 09, 2023, 07:35:45 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Beer_Day_%28United_States%29

National Beer Day is celebrated in the United States every year on April 7, marking the day that the Cullen–Harrison Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cullen–Harrison_Act) came into force after having been signed into law by President Franklin D. Roosevelt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt) on March 22, 1933. This led to the Eighteenth Amendment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) being repealed on December 5, 1933, with the ratification of the Twenty-first Amendment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-first_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution).[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Beer_Day_(United_States)#cite_note-1) April 6, the day prior to National Beer Day, is known as New Beer's Eve.
Damn how'd I miss that,well I guess I'll just throw on some Tom T. Hall in honor of
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2023, 08:41:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uavP422.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2023, 09:39:54 AM
On April 10, 1912, the British liner RMS Titanic set sail from Southampton, England, on its ill-fated maiden voyage.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 10, 2023, 05:40:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/BO8LIf1.jpg)

This image presents the territorial expansion and main battles and expansion directions of Genghis Khan and his descendants in the 13th century. The map also shows the location of the main conquered cities, empires, and peoples.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 10, 2023, 05:53:40 PM
Rocky Marciano hits the heaybag with his thunderous right hand. Marciano although he stood at all of five feet eleven inches and had the shortest reach of all past heavyweight champions at only 68 inches ‘the Brockton blockbuster’ sure could pack a punch. His trainer Charley Goldman said of Marciano years later how he and Al Weill would invite ‘green kids’ down to assess their chances of making it,he said “I’ll eat my derby hat if I ever saw anyone cruder than Rocky. He was so awkward that we stood there and laughed. He didn’t stand right. He didn’t throw a punch right. He didn’t block right. He didn’t do anything right. Then he hit Chancey with a roundhouse right which nearly put a hole in the guy’s head, and I told Weill that maybe I could do something with him.” Goldman explained to his assistant, Angelo Dundee, that although Marciano lacked height and finesse, he had great punching power. Dundee said, "Charley taught the technique that if you are short, you make yourself smaller. Charley let him bend his knees to a deep knee squat. He was able to punch from that position, come straight up from the bag and hit a heck of a shot ... It was just bang-bang-bang-bang-BANG and get him outta there."

Rocky Marciano may of been considered awkward with no finesse,height or reach yet he’s the only heavyweight champion to retire as unbeaten champion not bowing down to the pull of coming back once retired. He fought 49 professional bouts winning all 49 scoring 43 of those by way of knockout. The short stumpy arms,thick legs and slow feet were compensated by a well greased engine of that to rival any champion in history,a heart of a lion and a determination unrivalled…… the little guy stands as tall as a giant amongst his heavyweight contemporaries….49-0 undefeated….43 knockouts….. the numbers do not lie. The man could whack!

(https://i.imgur.com/DZ5h3yK.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 11, 2023, 08:14:48 AM
The forefather of the modern-day park ranger, Harry Yount, Yellowstone’s first gamekeeper, was stationed at Tower-Roosevelt Junction through the Lamar Valley in 1880 to help stop the illegal slaughter of animals.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2023, 10:09:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/doP38Vp.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on April 11, 2023, 12:07:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/BO8LIf1.jpg)

This image presents the territorial expansion and main battles and expansion directions of Genghis Khan and his descendants in the 13th century. The map also shows the location of the main conquered cities, empires, and peoples.
https://youtu.be/l1_bp8YKUPU
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2023, 09:39:02 AM
The construction of the Eisenhower Tunnel! This year we continue to celebrate 50 years of the Eisenhower Tunnel, which opened to traffic in 1973.
Tunnel planning and construction spanned four decades, starting in 1932. The geology of the tunnel was a challenge for construction, and one of the project's resident engineers even described it saying, "We have two kinds of rock: bad and very bad."
The issues with the geology of the tunnel ended up adding a considerable amount of time to the construction timeline. Over the five year period of construction of the Eisenhower bore, 6,000 people worked a total of approximately 4.9 million hours.
Construction of the tunnel was monumental for the time, and is still considered an impressive engineering feat by today's standards. Thanks to the hard work and dedication from everyone involved, Colorado now boasts the highest tunnel in the US Interstate system!



I've driven US 6 up over the pass where you can look down and see the Interstate disappearing into the tunnel.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2023, 01:54:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gfGbDye.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2023, 10:22:57 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Jallianwala Bagh Massacre (1919)
Named for the enclosed park where it took place, the Jallianwala Bagh Massacre occurred in India on April 13, 1919, when British troops under the command of General Reginald Dyer opened fire without warning on a crowd of roughly 10,000 Indians protesting the arrest of two Indian National Congress leaders. At least 379 demonstrators were killed and another 1,200 were wounded during the barrage, which is said to have lasted 10 minutes. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2023, 10:45:27 PM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Butch Cassidy (1866)
Born Robert LeRoy Parker, Butch Cassidy was a notorious outlaw who began robbing trains and cattle rustling in the mid-1880s. By 1900, he had partnered with Harry Longabaugh—the "Sundance Kid," whose nickname was derived from the name of a town where he had once been imprisoned. They became the foremost members of the Wild Bunch, a notorious group of bank and train robbers. The two evaded US authorities by escaping to South America, where they continued their criminal pursuits.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2023, 08:43:07 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 
Frank Serpico (1936)
Serpico is a retired New York City police officer who is most famous for being the first officer in US history to testify about widespread police corruption. Just months before he testified in 1971, he was shot in the face during a drug bust under suspicious circumstances, leading some to believe that corrupt officers had set him up. Shortly thereafter, Serpico, a film based on his life and starring Al Pacino, was released.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2023, 09:18:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/BgZvVew.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 12:09:03 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/341032690_622852303022738_3544930964041961963_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=k5h_KIA5LlsAX_CRB3S&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAKTcHCRIuujwPiUrpLqV-p3GAuOZqoiEdg1fmBL9ZhOg&oe=64409059)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 15, 2023, 10:02:13 PM
Some 111 years ago, the Titanic sank (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2022/11/19/how-many-people-died-titanic-how-many-survived/10605754002/) into the depths of the Atlantic Ocean.
Tragedy struck during the British luxury passenger liner's maiden voyage. Four days into the ship's journey from Southampton, England, to New York City, the Titanic collided with an iceberg (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/04/15/titanic-anniversary-photos/7330806001/) off the coast of Newfoundland on the night of April 14, 1912.
The 882.5-foot-long ship (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Titanic) disappeared beneath the ocean in the early hours of April 15, 1912, at about 2:20 a.m.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 11:48:30 PM
https://youtu.be/4XFYMjkFYPg
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2023, 12:03:04 AM
Eagle rock on the pier side!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 06:03:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2zSezzo.png)

I remember going on a tour back when you could go inside.  They told us the width at the base if 660 feet and it's over built by more than 2x.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 12:53:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/KXugMYZ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 02:11:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ycut1aX.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2023, 02:19:49 PM
apparently, didn't pan out
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 06:17:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/fvKmdqA.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 08:25:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/FfixsXZ.png)

I noticed the S&W cafeteria in the photo left and was pondering whatever became of the cafeteria concept.  I know it still exists in places, but rarely.  I used to like them in grad school.  I guess they sort of morphed into self service buffet things now.

Anyone here been to a Golden Corral lately?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2023, 09:12:45 AM
the Golden Corral here closed during the pandemic, building for sale, looked doomed

then a few months ago opened up as Golden Corral

it is now closed again

my father liked the place (could get your money's worth and little tipping)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2023, 09:13:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Bay of Pigs Invasion Begins (1961)
The ill-fated Bay of Pigs invasion was a US-supported invasion of Cuba by an armed force of approximately 1,500 Cuban exiles attempting to overthrow the government of Fidel Castro. Trained and armed by the US government, the rebels intended to foment an insurrection in Cuba, but the rebellion never materialized and the Cuban army defeated the invading forces in a matter of days.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 17, 2023, 10:58:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/KXugMYZ.png)
USS North Carolina ?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2023, 08:28:44 AM
It's the Alabama next to an older BB showing the relative size of each nicely.  The upper one might be California, I forget now.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Kris60 on April 18, 2023, 09:08:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/FfixsXZ.png)

I noticed the S&W cafeteria in the photo left and was pondering whatever became of the cafeteria concept.  I know it still exists in places, but rarely.  I used to like them in grad school.  I guess they sort of morphed into self service buffet things now.

Anyone here been to a Golden Corral lately?
When I was a kid we had a Golden Corral in town but it wasn’t a buffet.  In fact, it was sort of considered the “nice” place in town to go eat. I remember my mom and dad came into a little bit of money one time and they took us out to eat there.  It was a big deal. Lol.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on April 18, 2023, 09:20:54 AM
There are still a couple cafeteria style around WV I think.  Mehlman's Cafeteria I hear people talking about quite a bit, I think it's up near Wheeling
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2023, 09:28:10 AM
There is one in Gainesville, GA that is/was locally famous, a kind of place politicians will  visit when an election nears.  It's listed as closed.

I don't know of any nearish me, but there probably are some.  It seems like a concept largely replaced by buffets.

I dislike the "Brazilian steak" concept personally because I feel like I need to "get my money's worth".  I'd rather pay about the same and just order what I want.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2023, 10:05:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

WWI: French Pilot Roland Garros Lands Behind Enemy Lines (1915)
One of the first flying aces in history, Roland Garros was a French aviator and WWI fighter pilot. Early in the war, Garros fitted a machine gun to the front of his plane so that he could shoot while flying and soon downed three German aircrafts. While on a mission in 1915, his fuel line clogged, and he was forced to land behind German lines. He was captured and held as a prisoner of war until 1918, when he managed to escape and rejoin the French army.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 08:49:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/knyIFiR.png)

1950 ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 08:58:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/FJlFXWF.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 09:20:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/KXyb8QL.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 01:23:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Yugeejv.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 02:43:11 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/fRXnho9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 02:56:51 PM
Nebraska, ahead of schedule
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 03:34:38 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/NfEvJuG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 06:55:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ST8KxK9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 08:14:31 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/kyvIDym.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 08:47:07 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/6MzymDm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 09:09:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/d27ZGsE.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 10:44:52 AM
In 1909, Ty Cobb led the majors with 9 home runs.  Not one of them left the park.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2023, 01:24:42 PM
dead ball era and big parks
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2023, 01:24:58 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Pasteurization Test Conducted (1862)
Pasteurization is the process of heating beverages or food, such as milk, beer, or cheese, to a specific temperature for a specific period of time in order to kill microorganisms that could cause disease, spoilage, or undesired fermentation. The process was named after its creator, French chemist and microbiologist Louis Pasteur, who conducted the first pasteurization test with fellow French scientist Claude Bernard in 1862.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 08:24:02 AM
Schwerer Gustav[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Schwerer_Gustav&action=edit&section=3)]
In February 1942, Heavy Artillery Unit (E) 672 reorganised and went on the march, and Schwerer Gustav began its long ride to Crimea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea). The train carrying the gun was of 25 cars, a total length of 1.5 kilometres (0.9 mi). The gun reached the Perekop Isthmus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isthmus_of_Perekop) in early March 1942, where it was held until early April. The Germans built a special railway spur line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spur_line) to the Simferopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simferopol)-Sevastopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol) railway 16 kilometres (9.9 mi) north of the target. At the end of the spur, they built four semi-circular tracks especially for the Gustav to traverse. Outer tracks were required for the cranes that assembled Gustav.
The siege of Sevastopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sevastopol_(1941–1942)) was the gun's first combat test. 4,000 men and five weeks were needed to get the gun into firing position; 500 men were needed to fire it.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-ley196112-8) Installation began in early May, and by 5 June the gun was ready to fire.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-9) The following targets were engaged:
By the end of the siege on 4 July the city of Sevastopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol) lay in ruins, and 30,000 tons of artillery ammunition had been fired. Gustav had fired 47 rounds and worn out its original barrel, which had already fired around 250 rounds during testing and development. The gun was fitted with the spare barrel and the original was sent back to Krupp's factory in Essen for relining.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-11)
The gun was then dismantled and moved to the northern part of the eastern front, where an attack was planned on Leningrad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg). The gun was placed 30 km (18.6 mi) from the city near the railway station of Taytsy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taytsy). The gun was fully operational when the attack was cancelled. The gun then spent the winter of 1942/43 near Leningrad.[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-12)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 08:25:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/z7Vb3nQ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2023, 09:34:16 AM
In 1919, the first major aviation disaster in the United States occurred in Chicago. The Wingfoot Express blimp crashed into the Illinois Trust and Savings Bank, taking the lives of 13 people and injuring 27 more.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2023, 10:12:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Mutina (43 BCE)
The Battle of Mutina was fought in 43 BCE between Marc Antony and the combined forces of Gaius Vibius Pansa Caetronianus and Aulus Hirtius, who were providing aid to one of Julius Caesar's assassins, Decimus Junius Brutus Albinus. When negotiations between the Roman Senate and Antony broke off a year after Caesar's murder, Antony gathered his legions and marched against Decimus Brutus. Though Hirtius died in the battle, Antony was defeated.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 21, 2023, 10:52:51 AM
Schwerer Gustav[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Schwerer_Gustav&action=edit&section=3)]
In February 1942, Heavy Artillery Unit (E) 672 reorganised and went on the march, and Schwerer Gustav began its long ride to Crimea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea). The train carrying the gun was of 25 cars, a total length of 1.5 kilometres (0.9 mi). The gun reached the Perekop Isthmus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isthmus_of_Perekop) in early March 1942, where it was held until early April. The Germans built a special railway spur line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spur_line) to the Simferopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simferopol)-Sevastopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol) railway 16 kilometres (9.9 mi) north of the target. At the end of the spur, they built four semi-circular tracks especially for the Gustav to traverse. Outer tracks were required for the cranes that assembled Gustav.
The siege of Sevastopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sevastopol_(1941–1942)) was the gun's first combat test. 4,000 men and five weeks were needed to get the gun into firing position; 500 men were needed to fire it.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-ley196112-8) Installation began in early May, and by 5 June the gun was ready to fire.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-9) The following targets were engaged:
  • 5 June

    • Coastal guns (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_artillery) at a range of 25,000 m. Eight shells fired.
    • Fort Stalin. Six shells fired.
  • 6 June

    • Fort Molotov. Seven shells fired.
    • "White Cliff" also known as "Ammunition Mountain": an undersea ammunition magazine in Severnaya ("Northern") Bay. The magazine was sited 30 metres under the sea with at least 10 metres of concrete protection. After nine shells were fired, the magazine was ruined and one of the boats in the bay sunk.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-10)
  • 7 June

    • Firing in support of an infantry attack on Südwestspitze, an outlying fortification. Seven shells fired.
  • 11 June

    • Fort Siberia knocked out of action. Five shells fired.
  • 17 June

    • Maxim Gorky Fortresses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_Gorky_Fortresses) bombarded. Five shells fired.
By the end of the siege on 4 July the city of Sevastopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol) lay in ruins, and 30,000 tons of artillery ammunition had been fired. Gustav had fired 47 rounds and worn out its original barrel, which had already fired around 250 rounds during testing and development. The gun was fitted with the spare barrel and the original was sent back to Krupp's factory in Essen for relining.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-11)
The gun was then dismantled and moved to the northern part of the eastern front, where an attack was planned on Leningrad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg). The gun was placed 30 km (18.6 mi) from the city near the railway station of Taytsy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taytsy). The gun was fully operational when the attack was cancelled. The gun then spent the winter of 1942/43 near Leningrad.[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-12)
This post briefly mentions Krupp so I'll put in a recommendation here, The Arms of Krupp by William Manchester is an interesting account of the Krupp family and their massive armaments enterprise from the 16th Century through WWII and beyond.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 11:42:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/WZsTAUX.png)
The Ksar Draa in Timimoun, Algeria, is an ancient ruin that stands out in the middle of an ocean of dunes, and it's history has been lost over the centuries. The only news related to it is that for a certain period of time it was occupied by the Jews of the Timimoun region

Exploration Mysteries: Ksar Draa » Explorersweb (https://explorersweb.com/exploration-mysteries-ksar-draa/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 01:54:49 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/aMeWIRz.png)

Richat Structure - Wikipedia

 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richat_Structure)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2023, 08:42:57 AM
The youngest soldier in the Civil War was a 9-year-old boy from Mississippi. The oldest was an 80-year-old from Iowa. More than 10,000 soldiers serving in the Union Army were under 18 years old.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2023, 08:56:49 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Oklahoma Land Rush (1889)
On April 22, 1889, some 50,000 people lined up to grab a piece of the 2 million acres (8,000 sq km) being made available by the US government in the first land run into the Unassigned Lands, later known as the state of Oklahoma. Each settler could claim a lot of up to 160 acres (0.65 sq km). A number of participants illegally entered and hid in the area before the run officially began at noon in order to quickly claim the choicest homesteads.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2023, 08:51:45 AM
Argentina was the first country to use fingerprinting in order to determine if a person was guilty of a crime. The first known example of fingerprinting occurred in June, 1892, when police used a bloody fingerprint left on a door to match Francisca Rojas to the killing of her two children.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2023, 08:56:14 AM
Do other animals have fingerprints? And what purpose do they serve? | New Scientist (https://www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg24933253-300-do-other-animals-have-fingerprints-and-what-purpose-do-they-serve/#:~:text=In an example of convergent,fingerprint has a unique pattern.)

Unsurprisingly, our closest relatives, the great apes, also have fingerprints.

Perhaps more surprisingly, so does the koala. In an example of convergent evolution, koalas have fingerprints that are virtually indistinguishable from ours, even though our last common ancestor lived more than 100 million years ago. Like human prints, each individual koala’s fingerprint has a unique pattern.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2023, 09:00:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Oldest Free Public School Opened in the US (1635)
The Boston Latin School in Massachusetts, originally a school for boys that had just a handful of students, is now a coeducational institution serving more than 2,000 youngsters. It has the distinction of being the oldest public school in the US and claims many influential Bostonians as alumni, including four Harvard University presidents, four Massachusetts governors, and five signers of the Declaration of Independence.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 08:13:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/NYAoFn2.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 24, 2023, 08:28:36 AM
Opened in 1900, the Paris Metro is one of Europe's oldest subway systems. It serves over 5 million travelers a day and is the second busiest metro system in Europe, after the Moscow Metro.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 24, 2023, 08:30:18 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Armenian Genocide Begins (1915)
Known by Armenians as the Great Calamity, the Armenian Genocide refers to the deliberate and systematic destruction of the Ottoman Empire's Armenian population during and after World War I. Characterized by the use of massacres and forced marches designed to lead to the death of deportees, the genocide is estimated to have claimed up to 1 million Armenian lives. The onset of the genocide is generally accepted to be April 24, 1915,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 24, 2023, 09:28:01 AM
CD see if you & the misses can get a much coveted lodging at the enchanting Skagit River Motel. Vacancies won't last so act now
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on April 24, 2023, 11:30:24 AM
Opened in 1900, the Paris Metro is one of Europe's oldest subway systems. It serves over 5 million travelers a day and is the second busiest metro system in Europe, after the Moscow Metro.
And an absolute dump
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2023, 11:45:01 AM
And an absolute dump
When we were there, the only time we needed to take the Metro was the line that leaves the subway and goes out to Versailles. 

I hadn't had coffee yet, and my wife was aghast at the fact that I ordered myself a coffee from the dirty vending machine in the dingy Paris Metro station lol. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2023, 08:53:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Spanish-American War Begins (1898)
Demands by Cuban patriots for independence from Spanish rule made US intervention in Cuba a paramount issue in the relations between the US and Spain from the 1870s to 1898, when the Spanish-American War began. The conflict ended after just 109 days with the Treaty of Paris, which gave the US ownership of Puerto Rico, the Philippines, and Guam, all formerly Spanish colonies. One factor that increased American public support for such a war was the practice of "yellow journalism,"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 09:02:35 AM
I've used the Paris Metro a few times, I wouldn't call it a dump, I would say it was elegant either.  It's functional.

One cheap way to tour Paris is to buy a bus ticket at a "Tabac" and just ride busses around for a day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 11:23:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/HGLIHuW.png)

Einstein called this his greatest mistake, and new findings suggest Einstein may have been somewhat correct anyway.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 07:59:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/F6H7o7j.png)

1883 Montana, I would not want to be on this bridge.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 08:02:36 AM
Just A Car Guy: the Marent Gulch Bridge, at one time was the tallest wooden railroad bridge in the world, 226 feet tall and 866 feet long. (http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2020/11/the-marent-gulch-bridge-at-one-time-was.html)

The Marent Gulch Trestle is a railroad bridge (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenbahnbrücke) over the Marent (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englische_Sprache) Gulch Valley in Missoula County, Montana (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana), United States (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vereinigte_Staaten), northwest of Missoula (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula) on U.S. Route 93 (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Highway_93) between (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_County)Evaro (https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Evaro_(Montana)&action=edit&redlink=1) and Wye (https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wye_(Montana)&action=edit&redlink=1). Originally made of wood, the Trestle Bridge (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trestle-Brücke) was provisionally erected during the construction of the Northern Pacific Railway (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Pacific_Railway) until 1883 and was later replaced by a wrought iron (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmiedeeisen) structure without interruption of operations until 1885. It is now operated by the Montana Rail Link (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_Rail_Link).

(https://i.imgur.com/ysLt1V7.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2023, 08:48:43 AM
[img width=311.992 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/F6H7o7j.png[/img]

1883 Montana, I would not want to be on this bridge.
Is that you, circled on the horse??
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2023, 08:49:42 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Nazi Gestapo Is Established (1933)
Taking its name from the contraction of Geheime Staatspolizei—German for "Secret State Police"—the Gestapo was the secret police force of Nazi Germany. Created in 1933 by Hermann Goring, the Gestapo operated without civil restraints or judicial oversight, brutally suppressing partisan activities in occupied territories and arresting thousands of Jews, leftists, and other Nazi "enemies," many of whom were sent to concentration camps.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 12:35:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XdMjDT1.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 05:06:23 PM
The Andromeda galaxy is 6 times bigger in the sky than the full Moon: it's just too dim to see with the naked eye. This composite created by Tom Buckley-Houston shows what it would look like at night if it was just brighter

(https://i.imgur.com/TuG4KHX.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on April 27, 2023, 07:32:55 AM
Didn't know that.   Andromeda will collide with our galaxy in 4.5 billion years.  Just enough time to get your affairs in order.   
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2023, 08:12:58 AM
Hezârfen Ahmet Çelebi was the first man to fly a significant distance, using artificial wings to fly across the Bosporus Straits in the 17th century, thus making the world’s first intercontinental flight 270 years before the Wright Brothers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2023, 08:27:42 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Steamboat Sultana Sinks (1865)
The steamboat Sultana was a Mississippi River paddle-wheeler destroyed when one of its boilers exploded near Memphis, Tennessee. The greatest maritime disaster in US history, an estimated 1,800 of its 2,400 passengers, many of whom were Union soldiers who had just been released from Confederate prison camps, were killed when it sank. Bodies of the victims continued to be found downriver for months, yet the disaster received somewhat diminished attention
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2023, 11:13:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Steamboat Sultana Sinks (1865)
The steamboat Sultana was a Mississippi River paddle-wheeler destroyed when one of its boilers exploded near Memphis, Tennessee. The greatest maritime disaster in US history, an estimated 1,800 of its 2,400 passengers, many of whom were Union soldiers who had just been released from Confederate prison camps, were killed when it sank. Bodies of the victims continued to be found downriver for months, yet the disaster received somewhat diminished attention
This was a very sad catastrophe. As you mentioned, many of the victims were Union Soldiers who had spent years in deadly Confederate POW Camps. They were finally on their way home.

Imagine being a parent:
Your son has been MIA for months or even years and you FINALLY get a letter from him in early 1865 letting you know that they are alive, safe, and on their way home. Then you get a letter from the War Department stating that the Secretary of the War Department regrets to inform you that your son perished in the sinking of the Sultana on the Mississippi River near Memphis.

Sultana had a legal capacity of 376 but left Vicksburg with a total of 2,130 aboard. They were so heavily overloaded because the Union was paying $2.75 per soldier and $8 per officer for transit North. Sultana's Captain paid a kickback to the Union Officer at Vicksburg for the lucrative business.

Most of the victims were from Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan and for decades after the disaster they met annually on the anniversary in Toledo. The last Northern survivor war Private John Barr of the 15th MVI who died at 93 in 1938.

The wreck was discovered in 1982. It is beneath a soybean field on the West (Arkansas) side of the river about four miles from Memphis. The wreck is miles from the current river channel due to changes in river course over the intervening years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2023, 11:15:28 AM
News of the Sultana disaster was overshadowed by news of the killing of John Wilkes Booth the day before. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 08:39:52 AM
Grumman TBF/TBM Avenger. This ugly torpedo bomber first entered service with the US Navy in 1942. Not all effective military aircraft look great. The Avenger was the heaviest single-engine aircraft of World War Two – a dumpy, carrier-based torpedo bomber that was said to handle “like a truck” and gained the affectionate but decidedly unglamorous nickname “Turkey” amongst its crews

(https://i.imgur.com/VhEtQ7l.png)

The TBMs were built by General Motors, hence the "M".  A bit of an unsung hero in my view, could do it all, nearly.  The Dauntless got most of the accolades.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 11:24:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/E3ZYpEe.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on April 28, 2023, 11:44:53 AM
Grumman TBF/TBM Avenger. This ugly torpedo bomber first entered service with the US Navy in 1942. Not all effective military aircraft look great. The Avenger was the heaviest single-engine aircraft of World War Two – a dumpy, carrier-based torpedo bomber that was said to handle “like a truck” and gained the affectionate but decidedly unglamorous nickname “Turkey” amongst its crews

(https://i.imgur.com/VhEtQ7l.png)

The TBMs were built by General Motors, hence the "M".  A bit of an unsung hero in my view, could do it all, nearly.  The Dauntless got most of the accolades.

I don't think it looks that bad, assuming the missing chunk of wing was not part of the intentional design...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on April 28, 2023, 12:07:22 PM
I bet it pulled to the right
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 01:54:31 PM
It might pull left because of less drag on that side, I can't tell if the rudder is off neutral.  Those were pretty tough planes with good engines, a Double Wasp I think.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on April 28, 2023, 02:18:55 PM
It might pull left because of less drag on that side, I can't tell if the rudder is off neutral.  Those were pretty tough planes with good engines, a Double Wasp I think.


hard to have more drag with half your wing gone 

glad Im not the one finding it out
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 02:33:21 PM
If there is less drag off his left wing it would pull left.

The basic function of a wing is to convert drag into lift.

(On the other hand, the structure on the left wing could generate more drag from vortices etc.)

I was checking on how much it would cost for me to get current flying again, it wouldn't be cheap at all.  I'd need the basic gear, a headset, flight bag, maps (?), a medical exam ($120 or so), and then probably ten hours of dual ($150 each?).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 28, 2023, 03:27:39 PM
good engines, a Double Wasp I think.
Twin Cyclone.
The two engines are similar in that both are two row radial engines.

Wright built the Twin Cyclone. It was a 14 cylinder two tow radial of 42.7L displacement that produced about 1,750 HP although some late-war variants approached 2,000 HP.

In addition to the Avenger, it was also used in the Helldiver and B25 among other uses.

Pratt and Whitney built the Double Wasp. It was an 18 cylinder two row radial of 46L displacement that produced 2,100 HP.

The Double Wasp was used in the P47 Thunderbolt, the F6F Hellcat, the F4U Corsair, the B26, and many other machines.

Being much older, the B17 used a Wright Cyclone which was a single row nine cylinder radial of a "mere" 30L displacement that produced a "mere" 1,000 HP.

The B29 used a Wright 18 cylinder two row radial known as the Wright Duplex Cyclone. This one had a displacement of 55L and produced 2,200 HP initially, increasing to 3,700 HP in later models.

One of the advantages of the radial engines was that they were usually air cooled which tended to improve survivability because they couldn’t be taken down by a hit to the radiator. The USN and USAAF, as you can see from the above lists, obviously valued this. OTOH, the liquid cooled V engines preferred by the British and also used on a decent number of American aircraft tended to be more efficient (in part because they had a vastly smaller leading edge and therefore less drag) and longer lasting because liquid cooled engines tend to have vastly better heat distribution.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 03:29:46 PM
It all started with the Gnome Rhone (more or less) ...

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2023, 04:16:35 PM
Hezârfen Ahmet Çelebi was the first man to fly a significant distance, using artificial wings to fly across the Bosporus Straits in the 17th century, thus making the world’s first intercontinental flight 270 years before the Wright Brothers.
I'm calling BS,how far are these straits? And of course they had to be artificial wings. If they stated glider then that would be feasible
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 04:32:56 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezârfen_Ahmed_Çelebi
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2023, 04:54:24 PM
I'm with Nubbz on this one. I'm not saying he didn't do what is claimed, but apparently this comes from the writings of ONE person. 

He was then exiled to Algeria, lived 8-10 more years, and there is no additional information about continued experiments with flight, advances, or even repeating similar feats. 

Nor is there any evidence of this spurring any further experiments from anyone else based on his proof of concept. Clearly neither Turkey nor Algeria became hotbeds of unpowered flight that I'm aware of. 


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2023, 05:51:17 PM
Haters
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on April 28, 2023, 11:28:35 PM
Haters
Science deniers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2023, 05:48:00 AM
The Bosporus is 19 miles (30 km) long and has a maximum width of 2.3 miles (3.7 km) at the northern entrance and a minimum width of 2,450 feet (750 metres) between the Ottoman fortifications of Rumelihisarı and Anadoluhisarı. Its depth varies from 120 to 408 feet (36.5 to 124 metres) in midstream. In its centre a rapid current flows from the Black Sea to the Sea of Marmara, but a countercurrent below the surface carries water of greater salinity from the Sea of Marmara to the Black Sea. The Bosporus is heavily fished, since the channel is a seasonal migration route for fish to and from the Black Sea. Both shores are well wooded and are dotted with villages, resorts, and fine residences and villas.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2023, 09:14:03 AM
First delivery of Coca-Cola to Knoxville, 1919.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/344224814_927320938388781_2697194592319518562_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=988mQZP2AxoAX_qKzb9&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfANKtgsbjksxc5_QiXiIR8hx6kYvRqDE5TSqo0ableerQ&oe=64529168)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2023, 11:29:12 AM
1885 – Florida’s first four-year institution of higher learning was incorporated in central Florida on this date. Named after prominent Chicago businessman and early benefactor, Alonzo Rollins, Rollins College was established by New England Congregationalists who wanted to bring their style of liberal education to what was then the wild Florida frontier. Classes officially began on November 4, 1885. The campus now covers eighty acres within the historic city of Winter Park, with an approximate student population of 4,000 undergraduates and graduates.

(Coincidentally, UGA was chartered in 1785.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2023, 08:44:58 AM
Founded in 1752 as an animal menagerie by Emperor Franz Stephan, Vienna’s Schönbrunn Tiergarten is the oldest zoo in the world.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2023, 09:04:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Hitler Commits Suicide (1945)
In the final days of World War II, as the Red Army of the Soviet Union was closing in on his underground bunker in Berlin, Nazi leader Adolf Hitler committed suicide by shooting himself while simultaneously biting into a cyanide capsule. Hitler's body and that of Eva Braun—his mistress whom he had wed the day before—were then placed in a bomb crater, doused with gasoline, and set on fire by German officials.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2023, 02:26:20 PM
Judge Roy Bean (c. 1825 - March 16, 1903) was an American saloonkeeper and justice of the peace in Vale Verde County, Texas, in the late 19th century. He gained notoriety for his unusual rulings and questionable legal authority. He called himself the "The Only Law West of the Pecos" and held court in his saloon, encouraging attendees to purchase liquor while he dispensed justice. Fictional Western films called him "The Hanging Judge," although he was only known to have sentenced two men to hang, one of which escaped.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/343619617_937725227545383_6532766786892504467_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Pg9T6OIE0EgAX-hv-0g&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfD9Tr4m3X6LaFyoGk4ieAkjpJJeX_XoN3yjBFYF13cUTQ&oe=64540E67)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 01:58:35 PM
Arthur Fiedler, Boston Pops with Roy Clark 1976 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqH_GYr3e_c)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 09:01:11 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9Y3AIoN.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 03, 2023, 11:33:17 AM
I'd like to add and discuss some "counter-narrative" history. I hope at least some posters find that interesting. 

I'll start with two issues related to the Battle of Gettysburg:


WRT #1:
The conventional narrative is that the Union line was more-or-less impenetrable and Lee's frontal assault on it was a catastrophically bad decision. Even before the attack, most of Lee's subordinates felt this way. Ironically, General Pickett who will forever be known for the charge that bears his name was one of those who thought the idea was near madness. 

Obviously with 20/20 hindsight Pickett and Lee's other subordinates were correct, the attack WAS a bad idea. I'll even add that, on a tactical level, it was a fairly obviously bad idea before it was launched. 

That said, I actually think that Lee made the right decision for strategic rather than tactical reasons. The macro-strategic situation for the Confederacy was already bad in the summer of 1863 and it was deteriorating rapidly:
Charging at the Union fishook at Gettysburg was bad tactically but it made strategic sense because it was the best chance the Confederates could realistically hope for. If they had waited and tried again in the summer of 1864, they would have been outnumbered and outgunned more severely than they were on July 3, 1863.

WRT #2:
Shortly after the battle Lincoln reportedly said of Meade that he "had the Confederate Army in the palm of his hand and let them slip away" or words to the effect. 

This all stems from the geography of the battle. The Confederate (Southern) line was actually North of the Union (Northern) line. In theory then, once the Union won the battle, they should have been able to prevent the Confederates from escaping back to their supplies. 

The conventional narrative is that Meade missed a golden opportunity that should have been obvious to him. Had he acted to prevent their escape, the Confederates could have been trapped in hostile territory in Pennsylvania with dwindling supplies of food and ammunition and the entire Army of Northern Virginia could have been killed or captured. 

For many years I believed this, but I wanted to know more. Particularly, I couldn't understand how a military man trained in such things could possibly have overlooked the opportunity that seemed so obvious to me and had seemed so to Lincoln as well. 

A few years ago I read Retreat from Gettysburg, Lee, Logistics, and the Pennsylvania Campaign (https://www.amazon.com/Retreat-Gettysburg-Logistics-Pennsylvania-Campaign/dp/0807872091) because I wanted to find out. The book credits Lee for his handling of the retreat (escape really) and explains Meade's hesitations. 

The short version is that Lee did a masterful job of masking his location, direction, and intentions and that Meade had plenty of his own problems to deal with. 

In retrospect, Lee's Army was critically low on ammunition and Meade probably should have been able to guess that was the case. However, Meade didn't KNOW that. What he KNEW was that his own army was bloodied and low on ammunition and Meade was hesitant to get into a battle without having enough ammunition to actually fight. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 12:52:18 PM
It also rained pretty hard after the battle, and Lee held in place for a day before sneaking out.  That allowed him to send on ambulances and slow moving wagons a day ahead of time.  Meade was new to command and realize a bad error would be disastrous.  He knew Lee would set traps and appear where least expected.  (This is the 160th anniversary of Chancellorsville.)  Imagine Meade had really gone after Lee with a divided wounded army and suddenly Lee turned on him and defeated him in detail.

I think the mistake made by Lee was on Day One not taking the heights, which however would have been dicey as well.  His orders were equivocal.  In my books, Stonewall Jackson is saved by a slave of all people and is present and takes the heights (with considerable casualties).  Meade then falls back to a second very defensible line.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 03, 2023, 01:29:25 PM
It also rained pretty hard after the battle, and Lee held in place for a day before sneaking out.  That allowed him to send on ambulances and slow moving wagons a day ahead of time.  Meade was new to command and realize a bad error would be disastrous.  He knew Lee would set traps and appear where least expected.  (This is the 160th anniversary of Chancellorsville.)  Imagine Meade had really gone after Lee with a divided wounded army and suddenly Lee turned on him and defeated him in detail.
The bolded part, I think, is the best defense of Meade. Gettysburg was a great victory for the Union but would have been a catastrophic defeat if Meade had walked into a trap while pursuing.

I think the mistake made by Lee was on Day One not taking the heights, which however would have been dicey as well.  His orders were equivocal.  In my books, Stonewall Jackson is saved by a slave of all people and is present and takes the heights (with considerable casualties).  Meade then falls back to a second very defensible line.
Interesting concept, how can I get a copy?

It has, of course, long been theorized that if Stonewall Jackson had survived Chancellorsville, he would have more readily realized value of the heights and therefore understood Lee's famous (perhaps infamous) order to take them "if practicable" as meaning something closer to "if possible".
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 03, 2023, 01:35:40 PM
Lee charged into a well entrenched position across over a mile of open ground

Of course it was a huge mistake

as several of his generals suggested he should have gone to the right
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 01:41:27 PM
It has, of course, long been theorized that if Stonewall Jackson had survived Chancellorsville, he would have more readily realized value of the heights and therefore understood Lee's famous (perhaps infamous) order to take them "if practicable" as meaning something closer to "if possible".
It's available on Amazon, or I will send you the books, there are four of them in the series. Book 2 is called "Rebel at War", I see Amazon has it on sale for $3.54 which is cheaper than I could mail it.

Book  One is historical fiction and then it turns into alternative fiction for 2-4.  Stonewall took a slave who had very good night vision on his reconnaisance when he was shot, and the slave heard the rifles cock and pulled Stonewall out of his saddle, and was shot himself.  How's that for irony?

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 01:42:27 PM
I got interested in what would happen if the South "won" the war, and my notions were they really would have lost relatively and had numerous problems.  So did the North, the country split up again.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 04, 2023, 09:27:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Haymarket Riot (1886)
This violent confrontation between Chicago police and labor protesters, which dramatized the labor movement's struggle for recognition, began when a bomb was thrown into the police ranks at a gathering of radical unionists protesting police brutality against strikers. With seven officers dead and 60 wounded, the police opened fire on the crowd. Seven anarchist leaders were later sentenced to death.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2023, 09:11:47 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Kublai Khan Becomes Ruler of the Mongol Empire (1260)
The grandson of Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan was a Mongol emperor who founded China's Yuan Dynasty and became the first Yuan emperor in 1271. In 1279, he completed his grandfather's conquest of China by overthrowing the Sung dynasty. He promoted economic prosperity by rebuilding the Grand Canal, repairing public granaries, extending highways, and encouraging foreign commerce. His magnificent capital at Cambuluc—now Beijing—was visited by several Europeans
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 05, 2023, 04:17:54 PM
Lee charged into a well entrenched position across over a mile of open ground

Of course it was a huge mistake
Tactically, you are inarguably correct. As stated above, strategically there is a credible basis for the decision. 
as several of his generals suggested he should have gone to the right
Another alternative would have been to simply declare victory and go home. Even after Pickett's Charge the casualty figures for the Union and Confederate armies at Gettysburg are roughly equal. Since the attacking and unsuccessful Confederates MUST have had more losses than the defending and successful Union on the battle's final day, if Lee had simply chosen to leave, the Union would have had more casualties. That and the Confederate acquisition of supplies would have given credibility to the assertion of victory.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 05, 2023, 04:27:31 PM
I got interested in what would happen if the South "won" the war, and my notions were they really would have lost relatively and had numerous problems.  So did the North, the country split up again.
The Spanish-American War almost certainly wouldn't have occurred since the North was far from Spanish colonies and the South didn't have the industrial base nor the Naval tradition and infrastructure. 
Where it gets interesting, I think is WWI. Do both stay neutral? Do both join? Do they join on the same or opposite sides?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2023, 04:31:54 PM
Tactically, you are inarguably correct. As stated above, strategically there is a credible basis for the decision.
I disagree with this statement

Just look at what happened to Burnsides 6 divisions at Fredericksburg when they charged over open ground to a well fortified Confederate position

The result was mass slaughter

Lee should have learned from this cause his generals sure did
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2023, 04:40:01 PM
. Another alternative would have been to simply declare victory and go home. Even after Pickett's Charge the casualty figures for the Union and Confederate armies at Gettysburg are roughly equal. Since the attacking and unsuccessful Confederates MUST have had more losses than the defending and successful Union on the battle's final day, if Lee had simply chosen to leave, the Union would have had more casualties. That and the Confederate acquisition of supplies would have given credibility to the assertion of victory.
By all accounts Ive read that simply was not in the character of Lee

He smelled victory and was convinced the Union center would fold if pressed

again Lee could have achieved a much better outcome by outflanking the Union to the right

but we will never really know
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2023, 07:45:08 PM
History Nebraska

May 5, 1955, this building survived an atomic bomb test blast 6,800 feet away from ground zero in Yucca Flats, Nevada.
Manufactured by the Behlen plant in Columbus, Nebraska, the metal shed withstood pressure loads of around 600 Ibs/sq foot.




(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/343058874_2823465234450964_5219988300738512935_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=dWKu6RG3fPkAX9qApZB&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBGioMc0OAFyfMx5Yn4eg47B41eruEP7h5R9az0lDLiOA&oe=645A4890)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 06, 2023, 11:00:33 AM
On May 6, 1882, President Chester Arthur signed a law that reshaped America. More than a century later, Congress formally apologized for it.

The Chinese Exclusion Act blocked Chinese workers from coming legally to the country, and blocked Chinese immigrants who were already living here from becoming US citizens. The Library of Congress calls it the “first significant restriction on free immigration in U.S. history.”

The law and other related measures were repealed in 1943. But its legacy is still being felt decades later.

Generations of families were separated and suffered under the restrictions, says Ted Gong, executive director of the 1882 Foundation, which aims to spread awareness of the act’s history and continuing significance.

“The Chinese Exclusion Act shaped the entire Chinese American society, even up into today,” Gong says.

And experts have argued the law’s impact lasted long beyond its time on the books.

“The justification for exclusion was that the Chinese were an ‘unassimilable’ race and therefore could never become Americans. … Its rationale – that Asians pose a racial danger to American society – has endured in our politics and culture to this day,” historian Mae Ngai said in a 2021 piece for The Atlantic.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/on-this-day-141-years-ago-a-new-law-began-reshaping-america-more-than-a-century-later-congress-apologized-for-it/ar-AA1aOG1y (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/on-this-day-141-years-ago-a-new-law-began-reshaping-america-more-than-a-century-later-congress-apologized-for-it/ar-AA1aOG1y)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2023, 09:34:17 AM
Today in history: May 7

In 1915, a German U-boat torpedoed and sank the British liner RMS Lusitania off the southern coast of Ireland, killing 1,198 people, including 128 Americans, out of the nearly 2,000 on board.

In 1939, Germany and Italy announced a military and political alliance known as the Rome-Berlin Axis.

In 1945, Germany signed an unconditional surrender at Allied headquarters in Rheims (rams), France, ending its role in World War II.

In 1954, the 55-day Battle of Dien Bien Phu in Vietnam ended with Vietnamese insurgents overrunning French forces.

In 1975, President Gerald R. Ford formally declared an end to the “Vietnam era.” In Ho Chi Minh City — formerly Saigon — the Viet Cong celebrated its takeover.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 08, 2023, 11:42:44 AM
I disagree with this statement

Just look at what happened to Burnsides 6 divisions at Fredericksburg when they charged over open ground to a well fortified Confederate position

The result was mass slaughter

Lee should have learned from this cause his generals sure did
I didn't really mean it as opposed to attacking to the right (I'll come back to that).

I was making a larger, strategic point: Attacking as opposed to declaring victory and going home, absolutely made strategic sense due to the factors that I outlined above.

Attacking to the right vs center:
This is a tactical rather than a strategic decision.

Obviously, we benefit from 20/20 hindsight. We KNOW that attacking the Union center will be a failure because we've been reading about Pickett's Charge since we could read.

The attack to the right is preferable in the same way that fans think that switching to the backup QB would have been preferable after a loss. They KNOW that the starter lost so they have no risk in retroactively switching to the backup.

Similarly, we KNOW that Pickett's Charge was a failure so, from our perspective, there is no risk is changing to an attack on the right.

Pickett's Charge didn't work but there is no guarantee that an attack on the right would have worked. Additionally, Lee was facing South so his right was West, away from Meade's supply lines back to the East Coast generally and Baltimore/Washington specifically. Even a successful attack on Lee's right wouldn't necessarily have been catastrophic for Meade.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 08, 2023, 12:08:26 PM
It was simply the same as Burnsides attacks on Marye's Heights at Fredricksburg  7 months earlier only the Rebs decided to play stoopid on Cemetery Ridge
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 08, 2023, 12:26:18 PM
It was simply the same as Burnsides attacks on Marye's Heights at Fredricksburg  7 months earlier only the Rebs decided to play stoopid on Cemetery Ridge
I mentioned this in an earlier post

To me the decision should have been simple

Attacking left had not yielded good results for the last 2 days and Fredericksburg demonstrated a frontal attack had little chance of success

The only attacking option that was viable was flanking to the right

As far as the direction a right attack would be

By the time Picketts charge occured the bulk of Lees army was west of Gettysburg which means going right would have been in the general direction of Washington DC

This would have forced the north to move to its left and give up the reinforced ground
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 08, 2023, 12:52:48 PM
That's what Longstreet wanted to do and he was villified later for disagreeing with Marse Robert
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 08, 2023, 12:59:45 PM
That's what Longstreet wanted to do and he was villified later for disagreeing with Marse Robert
Yep and Hood also was a big fan of flanking right
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 08, 2023, 01:09:59 PM
More "counter-narrative" history:

Today, May 8, 2023 is the 81st anniversary of the end of the Battle of the Coral Sea.  The next major engagement after Coral Sea in the Pacific War was, of course, the Battle of Midway.  I've been reading about this battle for decades and studying it more closely for several years and nothing about the Japanese plan makes sense to me.  

First some background.  At the beginning of WWII the USN had seven carriers, CV2 Lexington through CV8 Hornet (CV1 had been Langley but Langley was a converted oiler that was further converted to a seaplane tender in order to free up tonnage for CV7 Wasp).  

Status of the US Carriers at the time of the Battle of Midway:

The USN had three carriers available for the Battle of Midway, the three Yorktown class ships, Yorktown (CV5), Enterprise (CV6), and Hornet (CV8).  The Lexington Class Saratoga (CV3) and the Wasp Class Wasp (CV7) were on their way to Pearl Harbor but neither arrived in time to participate.  

The Japanese Navy *THOUGHT* they had either sunk or severely damaged Yorktown at Coral Sea and they had not detected Saratoga's return nor Wasp's transfer so they believed that the USN only had two carriers available, the two Doolittle's Raid carriers, Enterprise and Hornet.  

The Japanese had six fleet carriers at the beginning of WWII.  All six participated in what they referred to as the "Hawaii Operation" and what we today know as the Attack on Pearl Harbor.  They also had some light and escort carriers that were less capable.  They had lost one light carrier at Coral Sea but their six fleet carriers were all still intact and afloat.  However, Shokaku and Zuikaku (Japan's two newest fleet carriers) did not participate in the Battle of Midway.  This is an unbelievable story:
Shokaku was heavily damaged during the Battle of the Coral Sea and was unavailable due to being in Kure for repairs.  Zuikaku was relatively undamaged but had lost most of its airgroup.  Zuikaku was held out of the Midway force because apparently nobody in Japan thought to say "Hey, why don't we take the undamaged planes from Shokaku and put them on the undamaged carrier Zuikaku?"  

Thus, at the Battle of Midway the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) had four carriers (the six that had attacked Pearl Harbor six months earlier less Shokaku and Zuikaku) and the United States Navy (USN) had three (the three Yorktown Class).  However this overstates the advantage for the IJN because the USN carriers had larger airgroups and the USN also had an unsinkable airstrip on the Island.  Thus, the USN actually had more planes.  

Typically we hear of two possible motivations for the Japanese attack on Midway:
These aren't necessarily complimentary and neither of them make sense.  

Before I address Japan's motivations, let me explain that it was only because of codebreaking that the USN was prepared for the attack on Midway.  The garrison at Midway had been reinforced, repairs to Yorktown were expedited, and all three available carriers were sent to the vicinity ONLY because the USN KNEW the attack was coming.  Otherwise the following would definitely have been true:
Considering that most of the fighting at that point was in the South Pacific, the remaining USN carriers (which would ONLY have been Enterprise and Hornet) would most likely have been in the South Pacific.  

All that being said, if the USN had been unaware of the IJN's plans to attack Midway, the IJN would almost certainly have captured the Atoll.  

Now regarding the alleged Japanese motivations for the attack, first to expand their defensive perimeter:
This make no sense because the IJN simply didn't have the available transport capacity to maintain a garrison on Midway.  The troops and planes stationed on Midway would have needed food, fuel, and ammunition and Midway is 2,500 miles from Tokyo.  Additionally, Midway isn't very close to anything else that the Japanese possessed so it would have been completely unsupported and the supply runs couldn't have been readily combined with resupplying anything else.  

Midway is ~1,300 mi from Hawaii so the USN would have had a field day sinking IJN transports.  They and the garrison would have been attacked at will by USN submarines, aircraft, and surface ships.  The Japanese would have found themselves in an attritional warfare situation that would have been catastrophic to their cause.  

Finally, once the USN got serious about retaking Midway, the IJN couldn't possibly have defended it.  Their closest possession would have been Wake Island which isn't particularly large and is ~1,200 miles away.  That is too far for air support.  

The other traditional motivation given for the Japanese attack was to draw the USN carriers into battle such that they could be destroyed.  One problem with this is that it relies on the USN making a strategically insane decision.  Assuming that the US only had two carriers (Japanese intelligence assessment prior to Midway) and that both of them were in the South Pacific, they couldn't have gotten to Midway until after it fell anyway.  At that point, assuming the two USN carriers charged to Midway, they'd have been facing ridiculous odds of two carriers vs four carriers PLUS the island.  Further, the USN would OBVIOUSLY have known this since the USN garrison at Midway would have KNOWN they were under carrier air attack and relayed that information on to Pearl before they fell.  

In a somewhat analogous situation six months earlier the USN had sent a relief force to Wake Island when it was attacked shortly after Pearl Harbor.  However, when IJN carriers approached Wake the USN recalled the relief force because it simply wasn't worth losing a carrier to defend Wake.  Midway would have been no different.  Beyond that, assuming the two USN carriers HAD been in the South Pacific they probably couldn't have made it to Midway before the IJN carriers ran low on fuel and had to depart anyway.  The Yorktowns had a maximum speed of a little over 30 knots or a little under 40 MPH.  Assuming they were ~2,000 miles away in the South Pacific, they'd have had to travel back to Pearl Harbor then refueled and rearmed, then traveled ~1,300 miles to Midway.  That 3,300 miles of travel would have taken more than three days even assuming that they went full speed the whole way and didn't bother to zig-zag.  Add in time to realize what was happening at Midway before the order was given and time to refuel/rearm at Pearl and you are getting awfully close to the endurance limit of IJN carriers.  

Understand here that the IJN was simply incapable of stationing their carriers off Midway indefinitely.  No Navy in the world was capable of doing that in the early part of WWII.  Late in the war the US developed the capability to station carriers off a hostile shore and maintain them there but in the early part of the war carriers of all navies were capable of raids (Taranto, Pearl Harbor, Marshalls, etc) and of briefly supporting amphibious operations but they were NOT capable of standing off a hostile shore.  Even assuming a successful IJN invasion of Midway, the IJN carriers were going to have to go home sooner rather than later for lack of fuel and munitions.  They couldn't just wait indefinitely for an American counterattack that might or might not develop.  

Finally, everybody on both sides KNEW that the IJN carriers couldn't simply wait at Midway indefinitely.  If the USN had viewed Midway as a critical strategic outpost (they didn't) they would have KNOWN that the IJN carriers would have to leave eventually.  It would have been colossally stupid to send Enterprise and Hornet up there alone while the IJN Carriers were still there.  Instead, Nimitz would have expedited Saratoga (at San Diego) and Wasp (at Norfolk) and waited for the IJN Carriers to depart the area.  Then he could have sent four of his own carriers to retake Midway with his choice of timing.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 08, 2023, 01:43:04 PM
If Japan had been successful in taking out our carriers they might have been able to sue for peace.  At least that was their thinking,  They greatly miscalculated just how pissed off the USA was.

Japan just didnt think the USA had the resolve for an extended war and it was wrong

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 08, 2023, 02:43:53 PM
Yep and Hood also was a big fan of flanking right
As I see it:
The question of attacking L, R, or C is a mere tactical question entirely secondary to the larger strategic question of:
I am more interested in the larger, strategic question. My opinion on that issue is that attacking was a strategically sound decision because the Confederate strategic situation was deteriorating relative to the Union strategic situation. 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 08, 2023, 03:03:46 PM
If Japan had been successful in taking out our carriers they might have been able to sue for peace.  At least that was their thinking,  They greatly miscalculated just how pissed off the USA was.

Japan just didnt think the USA had the resolve for an extended war and it was wrong
Japan's whole strategic calculus was unbelievably unrealistic.

First, since there was never any plausible way for Japan to militarily crush the US, march to DC, and dictate terms in the White House they *KNEW* that they'd have to negotiate the ultimate end to the war.

If you HAVE to negotiate an end to the war then your enemy has to see you as at least a somewhat trustworthy negotiating partner. That can't happen if you start the war with a surprise attack.

Even within that context though, the attack on Midway doesn't seem to offer any serious hope of actually achieving the goal of sinking the USN Carriers. But for the code breaking, the US Carriers wouldn't have been anywhere close to Midway.

Also note that Nimitz' orders were NOT to defend Midway whatever the cost. Midway was absolutely NOT a hill worth dying on for the USN. Nimitz' orders were to take opportunities to inflict more losses than taken and (basically) to GTFO if the whole thing turned ugly.

At the end if the day, time was the USN's greatest ally, Essex class carriers:

Those six were already under construction at the time. Three more would be laid down later in 1942 and another nine would be laid down in 1943. They began to be commissioned in December of 1942 and from that point forward the USN added roughly one new full size carrier every other month.


Japan needed to win and win quickly because no matter what happened if they didn't, the USN would eventually get so large and so powerful that the IJN would be hopeless.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 08, 2023, 03:06:58 PM
As I see it:
The question of attacking L, R, or C is a mere tactical question entirely secondary to the larger strategic question of:
  • Attack, or
  • Declare victory and go home.
I am more interested in the larger, strategic question. My opinion on that issue is that attacking was a strategically sound decision because the Confederate strategic situation was deteriorating relative to the Union strategic situation.


Number 2 was never an option in Lee's view IMHO

and why not be strategically sound and smart at the same time
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 09, 2023, 10:52:33 AM
Yep and Hood also was a big fan of flanking right
I agree with what Shelby Foote had stated that the Union still had another whole corp in reserve (forget whose) .But regarding if Jackson lived he would no longer be on friendly soil with the locals giving him detailed maps like his earlier campaigns. At Fredricksberg little mentioned is that the very same Gordon Meade had rolled up Jackson's forces on the opposite side of Marye's Heights. Problem was Burnside kept feeding good troops into the grinder at the heights instead of supporting Meade's break through so the thrust came to a halt as Jackson had time to get troops from the other side. So another "what if" as those units could have continued and rolled up the right flank of the defenders on the heights. The UNION definitely had the numbers if properly dispersed which of course they weren't

  Reading/watching all that I have Gettysburg is a true head scratcher of sorts. Two of the most brilliant brains Lincoln & Lee turned ignorant there for a spell. Lee obviously not learning from Fredricksburg and Lincoln FINALLY getting a decisive victory then slamming the guy responsible  - MEADE. To think that an Army exhausted from 3 full days battle in oppresive summer heat should then pursue the enemy the following day in a driving rain storm was pure buffoonery. Just resupplying and tending to the wounded was overwhelming daunting enough. To complicate matters that steaming pile Dan Sickles that almost single handidly cost the Union a victory and maybe the war. He runs off to Washington and told all his political connections(he served in congress and no soldier) and the press that he lost his leg in his brilliant campaign that Meade most certainly messed up . ALL LIES - amazingly no one ever shot that yapping jackel. Poor Gordon Meade performs damn near flawlessly against Robert E Lee no less and he gets panned for his efforts

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 09, 2023, 11:47:13 AM
I agree with what Shelby Foote had stated that the Union still had another whole corp in reserve (forget whose) .But regarding if Jackson lived he would no longer be on friendly soil with the locals giving him detailed maps like his earlier campaigns. At Fredricksberg little mentioned is that the very same Gordon Meade had rolled up Jackson's forces on the opposite side of Marye's Heights. Problem was Burnside kept feeding good troops into the grinder at the heights instead of supporting Meade's break through so the thrust came to a halt as Jackson had time to get troops from the other side. So another "what if" as those units could have continued and rolled up the right flank of the defenders on the heights. The UNION definitely had the numbers if properly dispersed which of course they weren't

  Reading/watching all that I have Gettysburg is a true head scratcher of sorts. Two of the most brilliant brains Lincoln & Lee turned ignorent there for a spell. Lee obviously not learning from Fredricksburg and Lincoln FINALLY getting a decisive victory then slamming the guy responsible  - MEADE. To think that an Army exhausted from 3 full days battle in oppresive summer heat should then pursue the enemy the following day in a driving rain storm was pure buffoonery. Just resupplying and tending to the wounded was overwhelming daunting enough. To complicate matters that steaming pile Dan Sickles that almost single handidly cost the Union a victory and maybe the war. He runs off to Washington and told all his political connections(he served in congress and no soldier) and the press that he lost his leg in his brilliant campaign that Meade most certainly messed up . ALL LIES - amazingly no one ever shot that yapping jackel. Poor Gordon Meade performs damn near flawlessly against Robert E Lee no less and he gets panned for his efforts
I've mentioned it here before but if you want to know a lot more about Lee's retreat and Meade's pursuit, this is a really good book:
https://www.amazon.com/Retreat-Gettysburg-Logistics-Pennsylvania-Campaign/dp/0807872091
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 09, 2023, 02:15:07 PM
There are some pretty neat computer games replaying various battles, including Gburg, that affords one a somewhat colored view of it all depending.  Some were pretty decent I think and included items like troop exhaustion and logistics.  It mostly helps one learn the geography.

I played a nice Pacific War game by Grisby that if nothing else helped one see where all those islands were.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 07:34:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/f2iOdFe.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 07:39:50 AM
Japan's whole strategic calculus was unbelievably unrealistic.
They were between a hard rock and a worst place prewar after we cut their steel and petroleum supplies.  Their generals in China would not have complied with any orders from Tokyo to pull back or "be nice".  They really were facing a very dire situation without gaining oil supplies (SE Asia).  And what lay between them and Indonesia/Borneo?

The PI.  

They figured/hoped that a sharp early serious reverse inflicted on the US would buy time, and perhaps lead to negotiations somehow.  This would probably mean US withdrawal from the PI so Japan could get oil from SE Asia and be "independent".  Yamamoto of course counciled against this, but they were in a bind.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 10, 2023, 07:58:27 AM
[img width=274.381 height=361]https://i.imgur.com/f2iOdFe.jpg[/img]
I haven't seen the North Carolina. I'd like to get to Wilmington at some point.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 08:01:58 AM
I've toured it twice, a while back.  Obviously it's very similar to the South Dakota class, and you would look hard to distinguish it from the Iowa class really.  I didn't get why we had two classes at the same time so similar, I think it related to the naval treaty, but don't remember offhand.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 10, 2023, 08:37:35 AM
I've toured it twice, a while back.  Obviously it's very similar to the South Dakota class, and you would look hard to distinguish it from the Iowa class really.  I didn't get why we had two classes at the same time so similar, I think it related to the naval treaty, but don't remember offhand.
The initial design for the NC was for her main battery of guns to be 14 inch. to conform to the Second London Naval Treaty. However, there was a clause in the treaty that if any member nation refused to sign the treaty, they could increase the size of the guns. So they went with the 16 in /45 caliber Mark 6 guns, which are similar to the 16 in /50 caliber Mark 7 guns. 

Also, you are correct, the NC class was designed and limited due to the Second London Naval Treaty. The Iowa class was designed after the US found a way out of the treaty thus giving the Iowa class a few advantages, mainly speed. The Iowa's were the fastest battleships every built and were able to keep up with the carriers at top speed, something the prior battleships could not do.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 08:56:13 AM
I was speaking of the very similar classes of the North Carolina class (of which two were built) and the South Dakota class.

A number of deficiencies in the preceding North Carolinas were to be fixed in the South Dakotas; these included insufficient underwater protection and turbine engines not of the most recent technology. The North Carolinas also did not have sufficient space to act as fleet flagships (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship), so the lead ship of the new class was designed with an extra deck on the conning tower (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conning_tower) specifically for this purpose, although the increase in space and weight from this necessitated removal of two twin 5-inch dual-purpose (DP) gun mounts.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota-class_battleship_(1939)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEFriedman281–82-4)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 10:50:01 AM
Sumerians Looked to the Heavens as They Invented the System of Time… And We Still Use it Today. One might find it curious that we divide the hours into 60 minutes and the days into 24 hours - why not a multiple of 10 or 12? Put quite simply, the answer is because the inventors of time did not operate on a decimal (base-10) or duodecimal (base-12) system but a sexagesimal (base-60) system. For the ancient Sumerian innovators who first divided the movements of the heavens into countable intervals, 60 was the perfect number. The number 60 can be divided by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, and 30 equal parts. Moreover, ancient astronomers believed there were 360 days in a year, a number which 60 fits neatly into six times. The Sumerian Empire did not last. However, for more than 5,000 years the world has remained committed to their delineation of time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 10, 2023, 11:49:48 AM
I've toured it twice, a while back.  Obviously it's very similar to the South Dakota class, and you would look hard to distinguish it from the Iowa class really.  I didn't get why we had two classes at the same time so similar, I think it related to the naval treaty, but don't remember offhand.
It did. In accordance with the Treaty System based on the Washington (1922), London (1930), and Second London (1936) Naval Treaties there was a prolonged global pause in new Battleship and Battlecruiser construction.

Here are the final pre-pause Battleships/Battlecruisers for the US, Britain, and Japan:
United States:
The last pre-treaty Battleships of the USN were the Colorado Class ships. Four were planned and all four were launched before the treaty but one had to be scrapped to comply. The USN also had to convert two Lexington Class Battlecruisers then under construction into what became the Lexington Class Carriers Lexington and Saratoga. The Colorados had eight 16" guns, weighed ~32k tons, and had a top speed of 21kn. The Colorados were built 1917-1923.




Britain:
The last pre-treaty Battlecruiser of the RN was the Hood. Hood was originally to be one of four Admiral Class Battlecruisers but the other three were canceled due to lessons learned at Jutland and their replacements were never constructed due to the treaties. Hood had eight 15" guns, weighed ~45k tons, and had a top speed of 32kn. Hood was built 1916-1920.

The "Nelrods", Nelson and Rodney of the Nelson Class were the last pre-treaty Battleships of the RN. They had nine 16" guns (in an unusual all-forward layout), weighed 33k tons, and had a top speed of 23kn. The Nelrods were built 1922-1927.

Japan:
The last pre-treaty Battlecruisers of the IJN were the four ships of the Kongo Class. They had eight 14" guns, weighed ~27k tons, and had a top speed of 27.5kn. They were built 1911-1915.

The last pre-treaty Battleships of the IJN were the two ships of the Nagato Class. They had eight 16.1" guns, weighed ~33k tons, and had a top speed of 26.5kn. They were built 1911-1915.

Due to the treaties, no new Battleships or Battlecruisers were completed until the late 1930's in the run up to WWII. Hood was the largest warship in the world for 20 years.

After the pause the US built ten modern Battleships:
Britain built six:
Japan built two:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 11:53:45 AM
I didn't recall that the two additional Iowas were nearly completed.  I think the Kentucky was laid down and construction had been halted maybe halfway, and the sixth might have been laid down and never really started beyond that.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 10, 2023, 12:10:54 PM
I didn't recall that the two additional Iowas were nearly completed.  I think the Kentucky was laid down and construction had been halted maybe halfway, and the sixth might have been laid down and never really started beyond that.


I think you are correct and that the sixth was never started. However, the bow of the Kentucky was affixed to the Wisconsin after the Wisconsin had a ship to ship collision during sea trials, that severely damaged her bow. They brought it back into the Newport News ship yards, removed the newly completed bow from the Kentucky and replaced the damaged bow of the Wisconsin.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 10, 2023, 12:27:37 PM
I think you are correct and that the sixth was never started. However, the bow of the Kentucky was affixed to the Wisconsin after the Wisconsin had a ship to ship collision during sea trials, that severely damaged her bow. They brought it back into the Newport News ship yards, removed the newly completed bow from the Kentucky and replaced the damaged bow of the Wisconsin.
They were both laid down in 1942 and would have been completed during the war but both were deprioritzed during the war especially after Midway due to needs for aircraft carriers, anti-submarine craft, and landing ships being more pressing.

Illinois was canceled at the time of the Japanese surrender and never launched but it was maintained for parts until the late 1950's.

Kentucky was further along and work on her continued, albeit at a glacially slow pace while various conversion proposals were contemplated until finally stopped in 1950. Also in 1950, Kentucky was informally launched due to her drydock being needed to repair Missouri after that ship ran aground.

Kentucky's bow, as you mentioned, was used to replace Wisconsin's bow after the collision but Kentucky's bow was not "newly completed", it had been in place for years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 12:33:47 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/9ykI1DJ.png)

The USS Illinois just before being cancelled.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 12:35:21 PM
Kentucky's construction was plagued by suspensions. Her keel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keel) was laid down at the Norfolk Navy Yard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_Navy_Yard)Portsmouth, Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portsmouth,_Virginia), on 7 March 1942.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWhitley310-6) However, work on the ship was suspended in June that year, and Kentucky's bottom structure was launched to make room for LST (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_Ship,_Tank) construction on 10 June.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWhitley310-6)[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEKentucky_(BB-66),_1942–1958-18)[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTESumrall47-19) Work on the ship resumed on 6 December 1944, when the keel structure was moved to Dry Dock 8. Work on the battleship proceeded at a slow pace, and her completion was projected for the third quarter of 1946. In December 1945 it was recommended that Kentucky be completed as an anti-aircraft battleship, and work on the ship was suspended in August 1946 while this was considered. Construction resumed again on 17 August 1948 without any decision having been made on her final design.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWhitley310-6) Work on Kentucky continued until 20 January 1950, when it was decided to halt work on the ship.[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTENVR_Kentucky_(BB_66)-20) Following this, she was floated out of her drydock to clear a space for repairs to sister ship Missouri (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Missouri_(BB-63)), which had run aground (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950_USS_Missouri_grounding) en route from Hampton Roads (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton_Roads).[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEDoehring_(BB-63)-21)[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEDANFS_Missouri_(BB-63)-22)

(https://i.imgur.com/awKEBfZ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 12:37:09 PM
German aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_aircraft_carrier_Graf_Zeppelin)

Speaking of major ships not completed, what a waste of resources this one was.   And of course the Japanese effort to convert a Yamato class to a carrier was less than successful as well (Shinano).

DVIDS - News - The Yokosuka-built Aircraft Carrier Shinano (dvidshub.net) (https://www.dvidshub.net/news/422873/yokosuka-built-aircraft-carrier-shinano)

On Nov. 19, 1944, Shinano was officially commissioned, and on Nov. 28 departed for Kure, Yamaguchi prefecture, where the remainder of the ship-fitting work would take place. Shinano, with escort ships, had only been cruising four hours before they were caught on radar by the Balao-class submarine USS Archerfish (SS 311) and followed through the waters near Tokyo Bay.
Shinano’s escorts included the ships Isokaze, Yukikaze and Hamakaze, which were caught on Archerfish’s radar and followed by the submarine on a parallel course.
Believing that Archerfish was a decoy to lure Shinano into a convoy attack, Capt. Toshio Abe, commanding officer of Shinano, ordered that the ships outrun it by using a zigzag maneuver. However, by midnight, the ships were forced to reduce the speed to prevent the Shinano’s propeller shaft’s bearing from overheating.
Archerfish grabbed the opportunity and submerged in preparation for an attack. Shinano tried to turn southwest but ended up heading straight toward the submarine. Within a matter of minutes, the ship turned south, inadvertently exposing its side, offering an ideal firing situation for the submarine to attack.
At 3:15 a.m. Nov. 29, 1944, Archerfish fired six torpedoes, striking Shinano.
According to Hosokawa, Shinano was hit in the shaft-room of the #3 Engine Room on the starboard side. Upon impact, several thousand rivets on the bulkhead, especially between the shaft room and the engine room, came loose all at once. For IJN ships, rivets were used throughout the hull unlike modernized vessels, which are largely built by welding. The damage got worse with increasing water pressure and was beyond the crews’ ability to correct. Lifeboats and buoys were not available for the crew aboard Shinano, as they believed that, “escape from the ship equals timidity,” recalls Hosokawa.
Shinano was sunk on its maiden voyage 160 nautical miles southwest of Tokyo Bay, going down in history as the largest warship annihilated by any combatant submarine during World War II.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 10, 2023, 02:22:08 PM
They were between a hard rock and a worst place prewar after we cut their steel and petroleum supplies.  Their generals in China would not have complied with any orders from Tokyo to pull back or "be nice".  They really were facing a very dire situation without gaining oil supplies (SE Asia).  And what lay between them and Indonesia/Borneo?

The PI. 

They figured/hoped that a sharp early serious reverse inflicted on the US would buy time, and perhaps lead to negotiations somehow.  This would probably mean US withdrawal from the PI so Japan could get oil from SE Asia and be "independent".  Yamamoto of course counciled against this, but they were in a bind.
A few things to add:
First, the US petroleum situation in WWII was unbelievably strong. In 1940 the US alone produced almost 2/3 of total global oil production.

Second, I think everyone with even a passing knowledge of the Pacific War knows that Yamamoto was against it. His statement that "In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain, I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success." Was remarkably prescient. The Japanese lost four of their six fleet carriers at Midway almost exactly six months after Pearl Harbor.

What I didn't learn until much more recently was that Yamamoto was not at all alone in his view. Nearly the entire hierarchy of the IJN could see that Japan, with an economy an order of magnitude smaller than the US couldn't prevail. I had previously been under the impression that Yamamoto's was a lone voice in dissent.

In fact, most of the naval hierarchy believed that the war would be a disaster for Japan. It was the Imperial Japanese Army that seemed to think they could take on the whole world and somehow win.

What is really ironic about this is that in 1941 the IJN was absolutely a first rate Navy, arguably superior to the RN and USN in doctrine, equipment (the brits were still using biplanes on their carriers and the Brewster Buffalo was no match for the Zero), and training. Conversely, the IJA was laughable by comparison. They got their butts kicked by the pre-war Soviet Army in the late 1930's, learned nothing from it, and still thought they could take on the British, French, Dutch, and Americans all at the same time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 02:27:34 PM
The IJN was trained by the British, the IJA was trained by the Germans.  The latter had more political influence, and of course was deep into China where they acted as warlords.  There was no practical way they would pull back.  Tojo of course was IJA and they had military as well as political influence.  The IJN could do the math, as it were.

Hitler of course viewed Americans as soft, mongrel raced, and unable to do much beyond building refigerators (I know that quote was from Goring).

The rapidity with which the US economy went to a war footing is one of the most astounding features of the war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2023, 02:29:14 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Panic of 1837 (1837)
In 1836, US President Andrew Jackson issued the Specie Circular, an executive order requiring purchases of government land to be made only with gold and silver currency, or specie. A shortage of specie soon made loans harder to acquire, and the US economy suffered. When the speculative bubble burst in 1837, every bank in New York City stopped payment in specie. The Panic was followed by a nationwide depression involving record bank failures and unemployment levels.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 10, 2023, 02:50:51 PM
Another thing that I've always found fascinating is just how short the window in which attacking the US, British, and Dutch even seemed plausibility like a good idea was.

The Pearl Harbor raid utilized all six of Japan's fleet carriers. The two newest of those were the Shokaku Class Carriers Shokaku and Zuikaku. They were commissioned in August and September of 1941 respectively. 

They needed all six to be able to neutralize the various airfields around Pearl Harbor at the outset of the attack. Thus, the attack was only feasible once Shokaku and Zuikaku were fully operational. 

The other end of this window was defined by events involving no Japanese forces and occurring thousands of miles away. Japanese involvement in WWII only made sense from a Japanese perspective so long as prospects of Axis victory in Europe seemed good. 

Even the lunatics running the IJA had at least some comprehension of the fact that they couldn't actually win a war against China, the US, Britain, and the Netherlands in the long run. They thought, however, that with the Netherlands occupied by Germany and Britain distracted by a desperate struggle for survival at home, that they would be able to grab some Pacific islands while everyone was otherwise distracted. 

The Soviet counter-offensive outside Moscow began on December 5, 1941. That date being so close to Pearl Harbor is NOT altogether coincidental. Richard Sorge, perhaps the greatest spy in history informed the Kremlin that Japan would be attacking the US and, more importantly to Stalin, that Japan would NOT attack the Soviets. The Soviet troops that conducted the Moscow counter-offensive were mostly pulled from the Soviet far East on the basis of Sorge's reassurance that they were not needed there.

Anyway, the Soviet offensive began to see concrete success in mid-December, 1941 with the recapture of various areas and towns. 

Once to German offensive was definitely stalled and the Russian counter-offensive began to show that the Russians had survived the initial assault intact and still able to fight the prospects for Axis success in Europe dimmed considerably. 

If the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor had been delayed by as little as a month, cooler heads might have prevailed in Tokyo because hitching Japan's star to Hitler's Germany would have seemed much less like a good idea.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 02:55:22 PM
I hypothesize that this traces back to our taking the PI after the Spanish American war.  I think the Japanese attacked us to secure the PI and their shippig lanes to SE Asia.  Had the PI been independent (or Spanish), that would not have been necessary.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 10, 2023, 03:04:05 PM
I hypothesize that this traces back to our taking the PI after the Spanish American war.  I think the Japanese attacked us to secure the PI and their shippig lanes to SE Asia.  Had the PI been independent (or Spanish), that would not have been necessary.
This is absolutely correct. In fact, when the US was retaking the Philippines the Japanese determined that they were more important that the fleet. This was because the Philippines were between the Japanese oil supply and their home islands. The fleet was useless without the Philippines as they would either be in the DEI where they had fuel or in the home islands where they had ammunition and repair facilities but they couldn't get both without the Philippines. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 03:52:17 PM
Interestingly, late in the war, IJN ships sailed out with unrefined crude from Borneo.  This works "OK", sort of, but the lighter components are very prone to burning if ignited.

Surigao Strait if memory serves.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 10, 2023, 04:00:41 PM
Interestingly, late in the war, IJN ships sailed out with unrefined crude from Borneo.  This works "OK", sort of, but the lighter components are very prone to burning if ignited.

Surigao Strait if memory serves.
Yep, they didn't have transport capacity to get the crude to the refineries and the refined oil to the ships so they just sent the ships to the oilfields (Borneo) and filled the tanks. 

The flammability issue may have contributed to the loss of some ships but realistically the ships were going to be lost anyway so the only choice was to lose them idled for lack of fuel or lose them fighting. 

The Japanese fuel situation was catastrophically bad. I read once about a tank farm that the USAAF and USN bombed repeatedly. US forces were trying to get the fuel to ignite and never managed to achieve that goal despite repeated efforts. Postwar the Strategic Bombing Survey found out why: The tanks were bone dry and had been for years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 10, 2023, 07:23:33 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
General "Stonewall" Jackson was badly wounded in the arm at the battles of Chancellorsville, and had his arm amputated. Jackson initially appeared to be healing, but he died from pneumonia on May 10, 1863

Upon hearing of Jackson's death, Robert E. Lee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee) mourned the loss of both a friend and a trusted commander. As Jackson lay dying, Lee sent a message through Chaplain Lacy, saying: "Give General Jackson my affectionate regards, and say to him: he has lost his left arm but I have lost my right."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 08:16:41 AM
Cutaway section of a Tiger II armor front.

Today's tanks use more of a composite armor with different materials in layers, like Chobham.


(https://i.imgur.com/eRAkdlA.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 05:17:31 PM
On May 11, 1977, Atlanta Braves owner Ted Turner decides to take the managerial reigns of his team, which has lost 16 straight games. The Braves lose their 17th in a row in Turner’s debut, as coach Vern Benson makes most of the strategic decisions.

The Pittsburgh Pirates Won 2-1 at Three Rivers Stadium. It would be the only game managed by Turner.. After the game, the National League President Chub Feeney removes Turner from the dugout, citing a rule that prevents an owner from doubling as manager. Dave Bristol, who was given a “sabbatical” to allow Turner to step into the dugout, will be brought back to finish the year at the helm of the team.


(https://i.imgur.com/xDRwhEJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 11, 2023, 06:55:18 PM
FACT OF THE DAY:

Rand McNally once sued another map maker for copyright infringement because of the reproduction of an imaginary town Agloe they invented in New York. This "paper town" was created only as a trap for this purpose. The defendants prevailed, because the town later came into existence using the name that Rand McNally gave it. That town has since vanished again.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 08:01:11 AM
The first-ever “self-service” grocery store, Piggly Wiggly. Circa 1916.  In grocery stores of that time, shoppers presented their orders to clerks who then gathered the goods from the store shelves.

(https://i.imgur.com/AWqiOiQ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2023, 10:35:14 AM
The Zimmermann Telegram

This secret note, sent by German foreign secretary Arthur Zimmermann to the German ambassador to the US, said that in the event of war, Mexico should be asked to join as a German ally in return for Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. British intelligence intercepted and deciphered the note and sent it to President Wilson. This helped turn US public opinion against Germany during WWI and strengthened advocates of US entry into the war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2023, 10:35:58 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Soviet Union Lifts Blockade of Berlin (1949)
One of the first major crises of the Cold War, the Berlin blockade began in June 1948 during the multinational occupation of post-WWII Germany. In an attempt to force its former wartime allies—the US, the UK, and France—out of Berlin, the USSR began a blockade of all rail, road, and water traffic through East Germany to West Berlin. Rather than withdraw, the Western powers bypassed the blockade by airlifting thousands of tons of supplies into the city each day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 11:12:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/1TO6nh0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 02:36:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Ymr4psm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 02:38:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/BCgSEZm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 03:53:21 PM
After Nearly a Century, a New Limit for Patterns in Graphs | Quanta Magazine (https://www.quantamagazine.org/after-nearly-a-century-a-new-limit-for-patterns-in-graphs-20230502/?fbclid=IwAR2B-TdGOl3MjOzf4Uyzwza6T2bgz3mkH63N7emyQ1nEze9-rjJqx3gqyKk)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 06:42:10 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/gvZcEH9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2023, 09:02:11 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of Palmito Ranch Ends (1865)
More than a month after Confederate General Robert E. Lee surrendered to Union General Ulysses S. Grant at Appomattox Court House, ending the American Civil War, fighting continued in other regions. The Battle of Palmito Ranch was fought in Texas on May 12-13, 1865, and was the last major clash of arms in the war. It ended with a Confederate victory, with 118 Union soldiers killed and a few dozen rebels wounded.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 09:09:23 AM
Palmito Ranch Battle Facts and Summary | American Battlefield Trust (battlefields.org) (https://www.battlefields.org/learn/civil-war/battles/palmito-ranch)

I wonder what the Rebels were thinking here.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2023, 09:08:10 AM
Merkava

The Merkava series of main battle tanks is developed and manufactured by Israel Military Industries, Ltd for the Israel Defense Forces. It is designed to ensure crew survival, battle perseverance, and quick revival in case of bad damage, though it is still is vulnerable to remotely operated land mines. The heavily shielded engine is placed at the front of the tank, while the crew is able to escape through doors at the rear.

https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Merkava (https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Merkava)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2023, 06:59:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/X6cQibc.png)

1952, the downtown connector looking south in Atlanta.  You can see cones across the highway on left because it didn't go further than this until about 1964.  This freeway was notorious for having zero acceleration lanes for entrance ramps.  You can see one barely coming in from lower right.  This was rebuilt circa 1990 or so.  It is routinely clogged and doesn't connect anything much at all.

(https://i.imgur.com/S57nDYd.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2023, 07:54:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/7GqI9Wf.png)

Minor league team back when, mid 50s I'd guess here.  There also was the "Atlanta Black Crackers", a term you might not use today.  "Crackers" can be considered pejorative though I've read several etiologies about it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 07:32:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/flg0MXF.png)

Workers attach the mighty R-2800 Double Wasp engine to an F4U Corsair at the Vought factory in Stratford Connecticut, 1943.
The XF4U-1 prototype was the very first aircraft to be designed around the Pratt and Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp engine. This beast of an engine was the heart of the F4U.
With 2,800 cubic inches (46 litres) of displacement and 18 cylinders, this mammoth put down over 1,800 hp. The engine spun a large 13 feet 4 inches (4.06 m) propeller.
On October 1, 1940, the XF4U was the first single-engine US fighter to exceed 400 mph. Not only was she fast in a straight line but also in a dive too, attaining speeds of up to 550 mph.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 09:18:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/dXylD1a.png)

Traces of Texas reader Wylie Gober was nice enough to send in this circa 1975 photo of Earl Campbell at home in Tyler, Texas.  The house was on a 14-acre plot of land from which the Campbells eeked out a living growing roses, raising their own  hogs etc...  Said Earl's mother, Ann Campbell:
"I've been on this corner for 32 years, and all my life I never had to file an income tax return, never had no money in a bank. What little we made on the roses we spent right here. We had to take a lot of our clothes from the Salvation Army, stuff we could get for 25¢ or so. My kids were never crazy, though. They never refused to wear other people's old clothes. We grew all the food we needed. In the spring I'd slaughter a calf or a hog and we'd have our beef and pork for the year."
About this house, Earl said in 1977, "It's not much to somebody coming in, but to me, it’s the world. We don’t have much, but we’re happy with what we’ve got. I’m happy and I’m loved. That’s all I want. Without love, you’re nobody.”
Earl, who was one of eleven children,  made his mother famous in the speech in which he accepted the Heisman trophy. Said Earl, "You know, when I was a kid and I’d get in trouble, I’d always want to say, ‘Hey, Momma, I’m in trouble.’ So, hey, Momma, I’m in trouble!” The entire room burst into laughter.
Ann Campbell passed away in 2009. She was 85 years old.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2023, 10:26:49 AM
Tuesday, May 14, 1833, notable Confederate soldier & circus performer Henry Clay Thruston (1833-1909), known as “The Missouri Giant,” was born at the city of Greenville in Greenville County, South Carolina.

☞The following is an excerpt from Henry Clay Thruston’s Find-A-Grave page:

Known as “the tallest man to serve during the Civil War” (Pvt. 4th Regiment, Missouri Cavalry, CSA) it is said he stood 7 foot 7 1/2 inches tall. He traveled with P. T Barnum billed as “The Missouri Giant,” “The Texas Giant” & of course “The Tallest Man in The World.” In the South, he would lead the circus parade with a large “Stars & Bars” over his shoulders & in the North he often dressed as “Uncle Sam” & carried both “Old Glory” & the “Stars & Bars.”

It is said that during one battle both sides ceased actions long enough for a picture of Thurston & David V. Buskirk (at 6' 10-1/2 and one of the tallest men in the Union Army), to be taken together to prove who was the tallest!

☞Henry Clay Thruston met his earthly demise when he died from the effects of natural causes at the age of 76 in Mount Vernon, Texas on July 2, 1909.

☞Thruston’s historic dogtrot-style home, located at Mount Vernon, Texas on the Historic Bankhead Highway, now serves as the Mount Vernon Visitors Center.

☞The undated photograph depicts Henry Clay Thruston (center) standing between two unidentified men of ordinary  height.(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346075931_559880616053544_2333654167093874053_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ljt5q74457cAX9PPGk0&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfA0NzZHQU1aUunsEAOAAjFaq1Ng3ugsgCJG0J-qK2OAMA&oe=64690FCE) 


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 02:53:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/IlX8fex.png)

Not weird of course, a pretty neat photo I think ...  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2023, 08:26:41 AM
The Titanic's chief baker nonchalantly stepped off the stern of the sinking liner and calmly paddled around until dawn. After he was rescued, he was back at work within days. Experts note that he survived history's greatest maritime disaster by getting completely drunk.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2023, 09:15:55 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Police Raid Symbionese Liberation Army Headquarters (1974)
The Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA) was an American terrorist group responsible for various bank robberies, murders, and acts of violence between 1973 and 1975. The group is perhaps best known for kidnapping 19-year-old media heiress Patty Hearst, who later became a member of the SLA—a decision experts attribute to a psychological condition known as Stockholm syndrome—and participated in their heists.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 06:07:04 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iwI7uKh.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 09:35:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/6nGwzLf.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 18, 2023, 10:43:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iwI7uKh.png)
What are we looking at here?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 18, 2023, 10:44:28 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/6nGwzLf.png)
First McDonalds?  I stopped there while driving Rte 66.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: LetsGoPeay on May 18, 2023, 12:28:09 PM
What are we looking at here?
I think that is Paris and it's arrondissements
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 12:29:25 PM
I think that is Paris and it's arrondissements
Yes, that always had confused me no end, now I sorta understand.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2023, 01:15:37 PM
First McDonalds?  I stopped there while driving Rte 66. 
I did a lot of my growing up in a town called Des Plaines, IL. It was the home of Ray Kroc's first McDonalds. The building was raised a few years ago - it flooded a lot. There is a new store across the street. This was the old one. Ate plenty of burgers in the joint as a kid.


(https://i.imgur.com/cvOl72F.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 01:45:49 PM
I am a creature of habit.  My junior year in HS I took 2nd year chem, which was two periods long, 4th and 5th.  We got dispensation from the principal to leave after 5th if we had no other classes (seniors could anyway, but not juniors).  I had lunch every day at McDs.  My senior year I had no 6th period class and had lunch every day at Burger King.  I got a Whopper, a large orange, and fries, for 99 cents.  The lady who worked there every day, by herself, would see me pull into the lot and have my order ready when I got to the counter.

For breakfast, my Mom always fixed 4 fried eggs, grits, toast, milk and OJ.  I would not gain an ounce.

These days we usually have leftovers from dinner that I heat up for lunch, today it was one taco and some cabbage soup (which I made, it's quite good).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 12:39:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/HxQmooW.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 20, 2023, 10:03:12 AM
cabbage soup is gooood

we didn't go to McDonalds or A&W or the local drive-in when I was a kid - very often a tall

money was tight and 99 cents for a meal was too much
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2023, 01:27:50 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XkMioWr.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 21, 2023, 07:58:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/oJCOZxP.png)

Early morning on this date in aviation history; Friday, May 20th, 1927. Burdened by its heavy load of 450 U.S. gallons of fuel load, Lindbergh's Wright Whirlwind-powered monoplane commenced its painfully slow takeoff roll down a muddy, rain-soaked runway. Thankfully her J-5C radial engine still proved powerful enough to allow the Spirit to become airborne at 7:52 am and clear the telephone lines at the far end of the field "by about twenty feet.
Over the next 33.5 hours, he and the Spirit—which Lindbergh always jointly referred to as "WE"—faced many challenges in crossing the Atlantic; skimming over storm clouds at 10,000 ft and wave tops as low at 10 ft, fighting rime and clear icing, at times zero visibility through stratus and only when weather allowed, by using celestial navigation, and dead reckoning to keep on course.
Le Bourget airfield in France, was not marked on his map and Lindbergh knew only that it was some seven miles northeast of the city. He initially mistook the airfield for some large industrial complex with bright lights spreading out in all directions. The lights were, in fact, the headlights of tens of thousands of cars all driven by eager spectators now caught in "the largest traffic jam in Parisian history."
"I owned the world that hour as I rode over it. free of the earth, free of the mountains, free of the clouds, but how inseparably I was bound to them."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2023, 02:43:08 PM
Voltaire was not his real name: Voltaire was born François-Marie Arouet. He later adopted the pen name "Voltaire" in 1718, when he was in his mid-twenties. He was a prolific writer and produced over 20,000 letters and over 2,000 books and pamphlets during his lifetime. His works ranged from plays and poetry to philosophy, history and science.
Voltaire was exiled from France twice during his lifetime. The first time was in 1716 when he was sent to the Bastille prison for insulting a nobleman. The second time was in 1726, when he was forced to leave France due to his satirical writings. He championed religious tolerance and advocated for the separation of church and state. He was critical of religious dogma and superstition and believed in the power of reason and science.
He popularized the phrase, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it": Although often attributed to Voltaire himself, this phrase was  coined by Evelyn Beatrice, a biographer of Voltaire, in her book "The Friends of Voltaire." The quote reflects Voltaire's belief in the importance of freedom of speech and expression.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 23, 2023, 06:31:03 AM
Voltaire was exiled from France twice during his lifetime. The first time was in 1716 when he was sent to the Bastille prison for insulting a nobleman. The second time was in 1726, when he was forced to leave France due to his satirical writings. He championed religious tolerance and advocated for the separation of church and state. He was critical of religious dogma and superstition and believed in the power of reason and science.
He popularized the phrase, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it": Although often attributed to Voltaire himself, this phrase was  coined by Evelyn Beatrice, a biographer of Voltaire, in her book "The Friends of Voltaire." The quote reflects Voltaire's belief in the importance of freedom of speech and expression.
He apparently was ahead of his time and could teach us today a thing or two. Voltaire gets a Yuengling
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 11:21:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bhPfyqm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 23, 2023, 12:56:52 PM
The pacemaker, ultrasound, safety match, astronomical lens, marine propeller, the refrigerator, and computer mouse are all famous items that were invented in Sweden or by Swedes who weren’t living in Sweden.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 23, 2023, 01:02:25 PM
Forgetting something there FF - try to keep up
(https://i.imgur.com/iNFsklP.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 02:48:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/RNvsbjH.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 23, 2023, 03:13:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/RNvsbjH.png)

I grew up on these on Friday nights, when my parents were going out.  Salisbury Steak was definitely my favorite.

We also mixed in some of these:

(https://i.imgur.com/Nk8WHY7.png)

And of course these:


(https://i.imgur.com/gcT71OR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 23, 2023, 04:20:36 PM
yup, me too

parents didn't take kids "out"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 23, 2023, 05:55:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/RNvsbjH.png)
Can't tell you how many times I came home after working 2nd shift close the pubs then pop one of those in the oven at 3am. Wake up 3 hrs later smoke like london fog. Salsbury Steak was thick as Jerky,tater tots the size of peas,the peas the size of BBs. When I rented a house with some friends one of the guys came home blottoed and did the same thing. Other buddy and his fiance' woke up hrs later and the guy's sawing logs half hanging off the couch and they started laughing. Well the next day we took the Swanson/Banquet dinner after it cooled down and shellaced it and hung it in the living room with the other priceless art
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 24, 2023, 08:13:50 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Peter Minuit Buys Manhattan (1626)
Peter Minuit was the director-general of the Dutch colony of New Netherland who is credited with the purchase of the island of Manhattan in 1626. According to legend, he persuaded the natives—perhaps a Metoac band of Lenape known as the Canarsee, who were actually native to what is now Brooklyn—to "sell" the island for a handful of trade goods worth approximately 60 guilders.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 24, 2023, 12:11:52 PM
More "counter-narrative" history, Henry VIII:

I think the narrative is that Henry was basically just a dirty old man who repeatedly came up with excuses to get rid of his wives solely in pursuit of younger women.  Basically he caused a whole lot of mayhem just so that he could get laid.  

The more I've read about him and the time, the less true I've found that to be.  

First off, there is some very important background that seems to be overlooked by nearly everyone:
Henry VIII's father, Henry VII, won the throne on the battlefield.  Henry VII's victory at the Battle of Bosworth Field and the death of Richard III at that battle effectively ended the Wars of the Roses which had raged in England for more than thirty years.  Henry VII also became the last English King to win his throne on the field of battle.  

The Battle of Bosworth Field occurred in 1487 and Henry VIII was born four years later, in 1491.  Thus, Henry VIII had no personal recollection of the Wars of the Roses but in his youth nearly everyone he looked up to would have been veterans or victims (or both) of the conflict.  A disputed succession was part of the underlying cause of the Wars of the Roses and at the time the concept of Female succession to the throne was rather dubious.  Given that vast numbers of high ranking noblemen and royals were killed in the Wars of the Roses, Henry VIII was justified in seeing it as his duty to provide his Kingdom with an undisputed Heir.  

Second, I want to delve into Henry's upbringing.  Many people do not realize this, but Henry was not originally destined to be a King.  He was actually Henry VII's third child and second son.  Henry VII's first child was a son named Arthur who WAS intended to be the next King.  Arthur was raised, trained, and educated in those things thought necessary for a future King.  Henry, being a third child and second son, was not.  Instead, Henry VII's intention was for Henry to go into the Priesthood and become a Bishop or Cardinal thus providing a valuable ally within the church for Arthur, the future King.  Henry was thus educated with this in mind.  His training was not just in religion but also in the complexities of Church Law so when he later challenged the Pope on issues relating to his marriage to Catherine he was not an uneducated person.  Henry KNEW church law very well and, as you'll see, his position was more than sound on the basis of existing Church Law.  

Third, Henry's first (and by far longest) marriage to Catherine of Aragon appears to have been at least relatively happy for quite some time.  Henry and Catherine were married on June 11, 1509 when Catherine (born Dec 16, 1485) was 23 and Henry (born June 28, 1491) was 17.  Not only was Catherine six year older than Henry, she had also been previously married . . . to Henry's older brother Arthur.  

Catherine's first marriage:
Pre-reformation England was basically always in conflict with France.  France and England sought allies.  France's traditional ally was Scotland and England's traditional ally was Spain.  In both cases this served to threaten their rival's opposite flank.  Ie, England's position against France to their South was weakened by the need to defend their North against Scotland and France's position against England to their North was weakened by the need to defend their South against Spain.  

Henry VII sought a marriage for his son and Heir to a Spanish princess to reinforce this traditional alliance.  Thus, a marriage between Henry VII's son Arthur and Catherine who was the daughter of Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile.  Ferdinand and Isabella ruled as co-monarchs as each was a reigning monarch in their own right.  Their marriage served the purpose of uniting Spain.  

Catherine and Arthur were married by proxy (due to Henry's youth) in 1499 and first met on November 4, 1501 when Arthur (born September 20, 1486) and Catherine (born December 16, 1485) were both 15.  Both became ill in March, 1502 and though Catherine recovered, Arthur died on April 2, 1502.  

Arthur's marriage to Catherine had served two purposes important to his (and young Henry's) father.  First, Catherine had come with a substantial dowry.  The recently united Spain had money and the English King was more-or-less broke after 30-odd years of civil war.  Apparently the dowry would have to be returned if Catherine was returned and Henry VII wanted to avoid that.  Additionally, Henry VII's alliance with Spain was important to England as they were generally always in conflict with France.  Thus, things started to get weird:

When Arthur died Catherine was 16.  The new Heir apparent Henry was just 10.  As such, Henry was not yet old enough to marry but Henry VII began almost immediately to work towards an eventual marriage between his widowed daughter-in-law and his oldest remaining son.  There were, however, some issues.  Under Cannon Law (basically Papal interpretations of biblical passages) a man generally could not marry his brother's widow.  This would have prevented a marriage between Henry and Catherine but there were exceptions.  The exception that Henry VII chose to pursue was to claim that Catherine and Arthur's marriage had never been consummated.  

IMHO, this claim is laughable on it's face.  Arthur and Catherine were both 15 when they were married and literally their JOB was to produce an heir to the English throne.  The idea that two 15 year olds who were supposed to make babies, chose not to have sex for no apparent reason and in violation of their royal duty to produce an heir is frankly silly.  Nonetheless, Henry VII sent a representative to the Pope who chose to accept this nonsense and authorize an eventual marriage between Catherine and her deceased husband's younger brother.  

Based on this "exception" blessed by the Pope, Catherine was engaged to the heir to the English throne for a second time and she married Henry VIII in 1509 when she was 23 and he was 17.  Henry and Catherine were then apparently relatively happily for about 20 years.  They had six children but, unfortunately, only one survived beyond infancy and also unfortunately given the lack of precedent for female succession to the throne in England at the time, the lone survivor was a girl.  The children were:


Henry VII had died in 1509, shortly before Henry and Catherine's marriage so they were married then crowned at about the same time.  Catherine had been born in 1485 so at the time of the last miscarriage listed above she was about 33 and 10 years later she still hadn't produced a male heir and she was over 40 and generally believed to be no longer fertile.  

Henry had been born in 1491 so by 1531 he was no longer the dashing young prince of his youth but an aging (especially by contemporary standards) monarch with no clear heir.  This was a MAJOR concern for Henry who, as I mentioned above, was well versed in the horrors of a 30-year civil war set off by a disputed succession immediately prior to his father's ascension.  

Thus, by the mid 1520's Henry began casting about for a solution.  Now remember that Henry was a religious scholar.  Well, he determined that his marriage with Catherine was childless (he very nearly considered Mary to be a non-entitiy at least as far as succession was concerned) because it was contrary to the Bible, specifically Leviticus 20:21 "If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother.  They will be childless."  To Henry, this pretty clearly proscribed his marriage to Catherine.  This was important to Henry because divorce simply wasn't an option in those days.  He could only get out of the marriage to Catherine if he could have the whole thing "annulled" which legally means that it never was as opposed to a divorce which ends a marriage that is still acknowledged to have previously existed.  

The problem was that, at the time, the Pope was more-or-less a prisoner of Catherine's nephew (long story, Hapsburgs, Central European wars, etc) and the Pope was therefore not in a position to grant Henry the annulment that he sought even if he wanted to.  Thus, the Pope declined to grant the annulment and Henry's response was to declare an end to Papal supremacy and declare himself (as monarch) supreme in ecclesiastical matters within his realm.  

One thing that fascinates me and it deserves it's own post so I will not delve deeply into it here is that the people of England generally went along with Henry even under severe sanction from the Pope.  

In any case, Henry's marriage to Catherine was declared illegitimate and Henry married Anne Boleyn.  She was the second of Henry's six wives who were, as the saying goes:
Thus, at the time of Henry's death on January 8, 1547 at the age of 55 he had three surviving children each of whom would eventually attain the English throne:


My point isn't so much that Henry was a good or blameless guy.  He certainly did some bad things and the trumped up charges/execution of Anne Boleyn is terrible (although that may have been more political intrigue amongst Henry's underlings than his own doing).  My point is simply that I think Henry gets an unfairly bad reputation because most people ignore the fact that Henry had very good reasons to want to leave an undisputed heir.  Sure, he also had less honorable reasons but the good reasons shouldn't be altogether ignored.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 24, 2023, 12:27:30 PM
More "counter-narrative" history, Henry VIII:
Thanks for this, Medina. I'm seeing the production of Six next month, and this is good background that I didn't otherwise know.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 24, 2023, 12:59:56 PM
I hope Medina was able to copy & paste at least some of that.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 24, 2023, 03:27:14 PM
WOW longcat is long
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2023, 07:29:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Star Wars Is Released (1977)
After its release in 1977, Star Wars became a worldwide pop culture phenomenon, spawning two film sequels and three prequels as well as myriad novels, video games, and comic books. The films, which grossed over $4 billion, chronicle Luke Skywalker's quest to help the rebels defeat an evil empire and iconic villain Darth Vader.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2023, 08:47:50 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/348860693_913861486371354_6931264091577458167_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6ycY_YznQ9YAX_wgFS1&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfARcVUfrpyWkKbNbSXbId_mtqBAPYBEwnX5qYVarl0llw&oe=6473FC71)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 10:15:52 AM
On this day in 1906, brothers Orville and Wilbur Wright received their first patent related to their “flying machine.” 

According to automotivehistory-dot-org "They originally filed for the patent prior to their first powered flight, which took place on December 17, 1903, a few miles south of Kitty Hawk, North Carolina. After the rejection of their first patent application, they hired a patent lawyer. This man found the language that ensured they would receive the proper credit for their invention and. After filing in 1903, they finally received U.S. patent number 821,393 on this day in 1906. It covered a system of aerodynamic control that manipulated a flying machine’s surfaces."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 11:40:09 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/348860693_913861486371354_6931264091577458167_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6ycY_YznQ9YAX_wgFS1&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfARcVUfrpyWkKbNbSXbId_mtqBAPYBEwnX5qYVarl0llw&oe=6473FC71)
The dude was quite smart.

And pretty crazy.  

Sometimes those go hand in hand.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 11:48:23 AM

Albert Einstein once commented on Dirac: "I have a lot of trouble with Dirac. This balancing on the dizzying path between genius and madness is awful!"

Dirac quantised the gravitational field, formulated the most logically perfect presentation of quantum mechanics and predicted the existence of anti-matter (https://www.wondersofphysics.com/2020/07/this-is-how-dirac-predicted-antimatter.html). At the same time, he was also equally famous for his strange, unapologetic behavior.




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 12:35:50 PM
Dirac and Oppenheimer spent some time together in Göttingen. The two young physicists from different parts of the world had become good friends. In one of these days, Dirac noticed that Oppenheimer wrote poetry.

Dirac asserted, "Robert, I do not understand how a man can work on the frontiers of physics and write poetry at the same time."

Paul Dirac, Robert Oppenheimer Poetry Anecdote

"Why not?" Oppenheimer asked.

"In physics, you want to tell something that nobody knew before, in words which everyone can understand. In poetry, however, you go on to describe something that everybody knows about, in incomprehensible ways."

Oppenheimer was left too confused to respond to that.

Dirac went on to say, "The two are incompatible!"


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 12:50:23 PM
Professor Werner Heisenberg is speeding down the highway, when a cop pulls him over.

The cop walks up to his car and asks, "Excuse me sir, do you know how fast you were going?"

Heisenberg responds, "No...but I know exactly where I am!"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 12:58:46 PM
Quote
Dirac and Oppenheimer spent some time together in Göttingen. The two young physicists from different parts of the world had become good friends. In one of these days, Dirac noticed that Oppenheimer wrote poetry.

Dirac asserted, "Robert, I do not understand how a man can work on the frontiers of physics and write poetry at the same time."

Paul Dirac, Robert Oppenheimer Poetry Anecdote

"Why not?" Oppenheimer asked.

"In physics, you want to tell something that nobody knew before, in words which everyone can understand. In poetry, however, you go on to describe something that everybody knows about, in incomprehensible ways."

Oppenheimer was left too confused to respond to that.

Dirac went on to say, "The two are incompatible!"


Heh, that's pretty interesting.

As a guy who is both an engineer, and at least a bit of an author and artist, I view it differently.

I actually view them as two sides of the same coin.

For me, the great appeal of Physics, is that it searches for and delivers a language to communicate and describe HOW and WHY everyday things happen.

Poetry and art, on the other hand, search for and deliver a language to communicate and describe the beauty, or the comedy, or the tragedy, that occur WHEN everyday things happen.

But really those are just two different views of the same thing, so I don't view them as incompatible at all.  And being able to speak and listen in either language, is a tremendous benefit. 

When my i s c & a aggie wife was trying to get into Physical Therapy grad school, she found she needed a couple of hard science prerequisites, so she took them at the local community college in order to satisfy the requirements for entry into grad school.

I tutored her in both, and she got As in both.  But she definitely struggled more with Chemistry, it just wasn't that relatable to her.  But when I tutored her in Physics, I described to her why I truly love Physics so much-- because it clearly explains and demonstrates the HOW and WHY, hidden behind the WHAT, we see in front of us every day. And because the results of Physical interactions are so clearly observable, she was able to relate very well, and she too found that she loved understanding the HOW behind it all.  She actually grew to really like Physics and looked forward to our time working on it.

Now, in deference to our great Chemistry friend Cincy, personally I think the same is true of Chemistry.  It's just a little harder to see.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 01:42:34 PM
I started out as a physics major, but quickly realized you needed to be smart to major in physics.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 01:45:08 PM
P-Chem was a pretty tough class, from what I understand.

Chem-Es talked about P-Chem, the same way EEs talked about E-mag.

Personally I really liked E-mag, but it was certainly challenging.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 01:53:46 PM
Yeah, P-Chem was tough.  I had a bumper sticker that said "Homk if you passed P Chem.".

We had only 6 people in our class, 2 were grad students.  There was a "lower level" series that was actually tougher because all the premeds took it.  I took the upper level series.  I don't think I learned that much.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 02:57:23 PM
P-Chem was a pretty tough class, from what I understand.

Chem-Es talked about P-Chem, the same way EEs talked about E-mag.

Personally I really liked E-mag, but it was certainly challenging.
I didn't find E&M all that tough. But it's partly because it was a repeat for me as I took AP Physics in high school.

Funny thing about Purdue. I got 5's on both the mechanics and E&M portions of the AP test. That meant nothing. Purdue allowed me to take the PHYS 152 (mechanics) final during the summer before freshman year, and passing that PLUS my 5 on the AP test got me credit. For PHYS 261 (not only was this E&M, this was E&M for EE majors) there was no way out. I had to take it. 

Now, EE 311, Electromagnetic Fields & Waves, THAT was outright hell. It was E&M in the world of multivariate calculus. If you could actually figure out how to properly describe the program as a triple integral, the integrals weren't super-hard to solve. But actually getting from the problem statement to the right equation? Damn near impossible. Hardest class I've ever taken, in any discipline, in my entire life. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2023, 03:25:38 PM
that is weird history
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 05:59:28 PM
I didn't find E&M all that tough. But it's partly because it was a repeat for me as I took AP Physics in high school.

Funny thing about Purdue. I got 5's on both the mechanics and E&M portions of the AP test. That meant nothing. Purdue allowed me to take the PHYS 152 (mechanics) final during the summer before freshman year, and passing that PLUS my 5 on the AP test got me credit. For PHYS 261 (not only was this E&M, this was E&M for EE majors) there was no way out. I had to take it.

Now, EE 311, Electromagnetic Fields & Waves, THAT was outright hell. It was E&M in the world of multivariate calculus. If you could actually figure out how to properly describe the program as a triple integral, the integrals weren't super-hard to solve. But actually getting from the problem statement to the right equation? Damn near impossible. Hardest class I've ever taken, in any discipline, in my entire life.

When I said E-mag that's what I was talking about. E-mag is short for Electromagnetic Field and Wave Theory. For us I think it was EE323.  The "Radome Problem" occupied a great deal of my test time.

I have no idea what "E&M" means?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 06:17:26 PM
When I said E-mag that's what I was talking about. E-mag is short for Electromagnetic Field and Wave Theory. For us I think it was EE323.  The "Radome Problem" occupied a great deal of my test time.

I have no idea what "E&M" means?
Ahh got it. E&M being electricity and magnetism, or the second semester of physics after you've completed the mechanics class. 

EE311 (or your EE323) was basically that second semester of physics moved into the EE curriculum, but the 800 lb gorilla version including multivariate calculus of the same concepts. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 06:23:37 PM
Ah, okay.  I guess we made the distinction as well, but we just called it Physics 1 and Physics 2. First semester was mechanics, second semester was electrical (and magnetic). I also took AP Physics and got a 5, but at UT that only got you out of the most basic Physics classes including Physics for Physics majors. 

In UT Engineering, you weren't allowed to place out of ANY Physics-- 1 or 2.  They didn't trust your high school education and they didn't trust the AP test, to equip you for the upper level courses.  Which was okay by me, because it meant I had entire year of review that was an easy A.

And come on man, do you REALLY think a guy who graduated with an electrical engineering degree would find Physics 2 or "E&M" to be challenging?  You must have a low opinion of me... :)..

E-Mag on the other hand, as you note, was a bear. Very challenging but I found that I really liked it for the same reason I liked pretty much all of my physics classes-- it described in a language I could understand (mostly), the universe around me.  I love knowing HOW stuff works.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 06:36:13 PM
Ah, okay.  I guess we made the distinction as well, but we just called it Physics 1 and Physics 2. First semester was mechanics, second semester was electrical (and magnetic). I also took AP Physics and got a 5, but at UT that only got you out of the most basic Physics classes including Physics for Physics majors. 

In UT Engineering, you weren't allowed to place out of ANY Physics-- 1 or 2.  They didn't trust your high school education and they didn't trust the AP test, to equip you for the upper level courses.  Which was okay by me, because it meant I had entire year of review that was an easy A.

And come on man, do you REALLY think a guy who graduated with an electrical engineering degree would find Physics 2 or "E&M" to be challenging?  You must have a low opinion of me... :)..

E-Mag on the other hand, as you note, was a bear. Very challenging but I found that I really liked it for the same reason I liked pretty much all of my physics classes-- it described in a language I could understand (mostly), the universe around me.  I love knowing HOW stuff works.


Yeah, clearly we were talking past each other. But I do recall a Physics 2 exam where I scored a 59, which was an A with the curve lol. So the idea that EE students that hadn't actually already taken that class in HS might find it a little challenging wouldn't be crazy...

And as mentioned they didn't allow placing out of either physics based on HS education or AP score. Partly because PHYS 152 (Physics 1) is a major weed-out course for Purdue Engineering. But I passed (I think with an 88) the Physics 1 final, so that was enough for them when added to the AP test. No option for trying to test out of Physics 2. 

And I do get what you're saying about understanding HOW... A good portion of my role is understanding how stuff works at a deep level and then trying to translate that via technical collateral to less well-versed audiences. Tech briefs, white papers, etc. Understanding for myself and then educating others. That's something I really enjoy. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 06:40:34 PM
And I do get what you're saying about understanding HOW... A good portion of my role is understanding how stuff works at a deep level and then trying to translate that via technical collateral to less well-versed audiences. Tech briefs, white papers, etc. Understanding for myself and then educating others. That's something I really enjoy.

Oh yeah, I love teaching.  When I tutored her my wife was really impressed with how well I could translate the dry course material, into something she understood, and even enjoyed.

If I were to win the lotto or something, I'd strongly consider going into teaching.  At the university level, of course-- I'm not a psycho glutton for punishment.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 25, 2023, 11:25:23 PM
Oh yeah, I love teaching.  When I tutored her my wife was really impressed with how well I could translate the dry course material, into something she understood, and even enjoyed.

If I were to win the lotto or something, I'd strongly consider going into teaching.  At the university level, of course-- I'm not a psycho glutton for punishment.
you and Mathew would be lunch buddies
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 11:30:21 PM
you and Mathew would by lunch buddies
I feel like we'd really get along and become best friends forever!!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2023, 11:31:04 PM
nerds
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2023, 07:23:31 AM
Oh yeah, I love teaching.

If I were to win the lotto or something, I'd strongly consider going into teaching. 
Ya - then reconsider,what that's quote - days of our life like sands in an hour glass or some such. Tutor perhaps, maybe substitute but full time? You'd have to be crazy
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 09:29:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Dred Scott Emancipated by His Original Owners (1857)
Scott was an American slave who sued unsuccessfully for his freedom in the famous Dred Scott v. Sandford case. Though he argued that having lived in states and territories where slavery was illegal rendered him a free man, the Supreme Court ruled against him in 1857, finding that no person of African ancestry could claim citizenship in the US or bring suit in federal court. Shortly thereafter, Scott was returned to his original owners and emancipated.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 09:45:31 AM
I don't know that I remember even half of the stuff I was taught in college.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 09:49:38 AM
half??

:s_laugh:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 10:36:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bj7D2IK.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 11:09:06 AM
[img width=274.381 height=491]https://i.imgur.com/bj7D2IK.png[/img]
That looks a lot like the TV we had when I was growing up.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 03:35:29 PM
The greater part of the population is not very intelligent, dreads responsibility, and desires nothing better than to be told what to do. Provided the rulers do not interfere with its material comforts and its cherished beliefs, it is perfectly happy to let itself be ruled. ~Aldous Huxley
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 03:36:02 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/G0ORyY5.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 26, 2023, 04:07:12 PM
The greater part of the population is not very intelligent, dreads responsibility, and desires nothing better than to be told what to do. Provided the rulers do not interfere with its material comforts and its cherished beliefs, it is perfectly happy to let itself be ruled. ~Aldous Huxley
This is depressingly true. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 04:09:51 PM
Well, how can the greater part of any population be not very intelligent?  As compared to what?  I suppose if you take the bottom 2/3rds and compare it to the top 1/3rd, that is obvious.    And if some government doesn't interfere with my own material comforts and cherished beliefs, what is there to complain about?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 26, 2023, 04:17:09 PM
Well, how can the greater part of any population be not very intelligent?  As compared to what?  I suppose if you take the bottom 2/3rds and compare it to the top 1/3rd, that is obvious.    And if some government doesn't interfere with my own material comforts and cherished beliefs, what is there to complain about?
So, you post a historical quote by a famous author who wrote one of the seminal novels of dystopian fiction, and then when I agree with what the author wrote, you jump down my throat over it? Seems passive-aggressive, CD! :57:

That said, I stand by it. The majority of people in this country would rather be led than try to figure out which way to go on their own. For many of them, they're not intelligent enough to do it. For others, they're just too lazy. It's a lot easier to be told what to do than to have to actually think about things outside your comfort level. Especially when the Kardashians are on. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 04:19:33 PM
What is the stat on how many hours of TV are watched in the average home?  8?

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 04:22:44 PM
too many
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2023, 07:37:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Operation Anthropoid: Reinhard Heydrich Is Assassinated (1942)
Operation Anthropoid was the code name for the Czechoslovak-British plan to assassinate top Nazi leader Reinhard Heydrich, a chief planner of the so-called Final Solution whose ruthlessness and numerous execution orders earned him the nickname "the Hangman of Europe." In May 1942, Heydrich was ambushed by Czech patriots and wounded. A week later, he died from his injuries. This was one of the only successful assassinations of a top-ranking Nazi leader during the war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 27, 2023, 07:47:06 AM
The greater part of the population is not very intelligent, dreads responsibility, and desires nothing better than to be told what to do. Provided the rulers do not interfere with its material comforts and its cherished beliefs, it is perfectly happy to let itself be ruled. ~Aldous Huxley
Well what on earth is one to do about it? They keep themselves well hidden - never know what one of those nubbers nutters out there might do
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2023, 07:53:17 AM
Well what on earth is one to do about it? They keep themselves well hidden - never know what one of those nubbers nutters out there might do
interfere with their material comforts and cherished beliefs

you know, ................ stir the derned pot!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 28, 2023, 08:21:20 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Halys (585 BCE)
Also known as the Battle of the Eclipse, the Battle of Halys was fought between the Medes and the Lydians in 585 BCE at the Halys River in what is now Turkey. The final battle of a 15-year war between Alyattes II of Lydia and Cyaxares of Media, the fight ended abruptly due to a total solar eclipse, which was perceived as an omen that the gods wanted the war to end. After a truce, the river was declared the border of the two nations.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 28, 2023, 08:31:42 AM
I got to know some neighbors fairly well at times in Cincy, and coworkers a bit, I was often surprised how little they would know about "current events".  They'd comment they didn't have time or they found it boring to pay attention to the news.  Their stated reasons for voting for X could be interesting, usually it was the LOTE theory, based often on some rumor being passed around.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 28, 2023, 08:37:47 AM
it can be boring
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 28, 2023, 11:13:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Zj1axcD.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 28, 2023, 01:49:07 PM
A dime in 1960 was worth about what a dollar is worth today ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 28, 2023, 02:07:41 PM
interfere with their material comforts and cherished beliefs

you know, ................ stir the derned pot!
Can't get near them as asswipes like Pelosi wanted to defund law enforcement of course that bent skragg lives in a gated community with private security.How can I unfund policiies like voting themselves lifetime health care? If there is a GOD, Nancy and her kind - Dick Cheney - will be getting eternal swirlies = waterboarding in the commode

:96:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2023, 07:16:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/YS1uTAw.png)

I'm a big fan of books by Bernard Cornwell that explore this and later events of the 900s as historical fiction.  And this is why Brittany in France is called that of course.  The inhabitants are known as Bretons, as is their original language, now rarely spoken.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 29, 2023, 07:43:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Waxhaw Massacre (1780)
The Battle of Waxhaws took place during the American Revolution, when 150 mounted Loyalist soldiers overtook a detachment of about 350 Virginia Continentals in South Carolina. According to American accounts, the Loyalist forces ignored the Continentals' surrender and massacred them. Americans therefore refer to the incident as the Waxhaw Massacre. The British, meanwhile, call it the Battle of Waxhaw Creek.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 29, 2023, 07:44:55 AM
A dime in 1960 was worth about what a dollar is worth today ...
got a bigger candy bar in 1960 for a dime than today for a dollar
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 29, 2023, 07:50:05 AM
A dime in 1960 was worth about what a dollar is worth today ...
I told this to Cindy and the candy bar was the 1st comparisan she made. You're right you got more
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2023, 07:50:31 AM
Yeah, and get a much smaller TV for $500 as well.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2023, 08:26:48 AM
Schrödinger's Cat is a famous thought experiment introduced by physicist Erwin Schrödinger in 1935. It serves as a paradoxical illustration of the concept of superposition in quantum theory and challenges the Copenhagen interpretation when applied to macroscopic objects.

In the experiment, a cat is placed inside a closed box along with a radioactive source, a Geiger counter, and a vial of poison. The release of the poison is dependent on the detection of radiation by the Geiger counter. According to quantum theory, until the box is opened and the cat is observed, it exists in a state of superposition, where it is considered both dead and alive simultaneously.


(https://i.imgur.com/1gLsBC6.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 29, 2023, 08:30:16 AM
some folks have too much time on their hands
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 08:00:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Andrew Jackson Kills Charles Dickinson in a Duel (1806)
In 1806, nationally famous duelist and expert marksman Charles Dickinson—whose dueling career included 26 kills—was goaded by political opponents of future US President Andrew Jackson to insult Jackson's wife. A duel was arranged between the men, and Jackson took a shot to the ribs before firing what would be a fatal shot at Dickinson—the only man Jackson ever killed in his 13 duels. Jackson's wife died in 1828, two weeks after Jackson was elected president.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2023, 08:16:18 AM
I wonder how a duel would fly today.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 08:19:03 AM
similar actions on the streets of Chicago nightly
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 08:37:49 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CrBpbV6.png)

I could not confirm this anywhere ... so it could be some kind of weird joke and not fact ....
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 30, 2023, 08:42:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CrBpbV6.png)

I could not confirm this anywhere ... so it could be some kind of weird joke and not fact ....
Looks reliable 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2023, 08:44:58 AM
Looks reliable 
Checks the boxes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 30, 2023, 08:45:04 AM
I got to know some neighbors fairly well at times in Cincy, and coworkers a bit, I was often surprised how little they would know about "current events".  They'd comment they didn't have time or they found it boring to pay attention to the news.  Their stated reasons for voting for X could be interesting, usually it was the LOTE theory, based often on some rumor being passed around.
?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 09:26:06 AM
Guard/Defensive End Curt Merz who played in 92 games for Dallas/KC from 1960-1968...

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/349090534_784781299712388_7037776918046249695_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=4Jftr-4jabkAX_wis7Y&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfC-yg9C-8DpQiKYzlUwtt1PyyMO1PKlFLfjca7MwIBUoA&oe=647BCB2A)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 09:26:55 AM
LOTE = lesser of two weevils
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 30, 2023, 09:43:16 AM
LOTE = lesser of two weevils
Oh, duh. I should have figured that out. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 01:58:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MFTuRGc.png)

The group that played what became my favorite jazzy music piece ever, but they were always on break it seemed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 02:31:09 PM
"Suddenly, without a word of warning, the report of a pistol shot rang through the room and then another..."
It was the 25th anniversary of Nebraska's admission to the Union on May 26, 1892. The Lincoln Hotel visitors were enjoying their "morning repast" when William H. Irvine fatally shot Charles E. Montgomery, president of the German National Bank of Lincoln, for having an affair with his wife.
Five months later, he was tried for Montgomery's murder in Lancaster County District Court. How did the court proceed? https://history.nebraska.gov/murder-at-the-lincoln-hotel.../
📷: Lincoln Hotel, 143 N 9th Street, Lincoln, Nebraska, circa 1900.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/348678344_1175943886418053_3557466408198322437_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=mdYd3DRsvLoAX8Hia2z&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDrO2NVeb8zakgZ6LPI7n2CrxYBCdPR35miwK5q_8xmdg&oe=647AEFF3)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2023, 07:08:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Johnstown Flood Kills 2,209 (1889)
When the South Fork Dam near Johnstown, Pennsylvania, collapsed after several days of heavy rains, it sent 20 million tons (18.1 million cubic meters) of water cascading downriver at speeds of 20–40 mph (30–60 km/h). Less than an hour after the breach, a 30-foot (9-m) wall of water smashed into Johnstown, killing more than 2,200 people. The American Red Cross's response was one of its first major disaster relief efforts.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2023, 08:04:45 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Mary Dyer, Boston Martyr, Hanged for Being a Quaker (1660)
Dyer was an English Quaker who was hanged in Boston after repeatedly defying a law banning Quakers from the colony. Her death and those of the three other "Boston Martyrs" led to the easing of anti-Quaker laws in Massachusetts.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2023, 10:21:10 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/vuOLvIP.png)

I have a hard time thinking I'd want to be there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2023, 10:32:51 AM
maybe when I was in my teens or twenties

maybe
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2023, 12:52:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vZDr1sC.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2023, 07:32:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Bare-Knuckle Fighter Dies After 99-Round Fight (1833)
In 1830, bare-knuckle prizefighter Simon Byrne, Ireland's heavyweight boxing champion, fought Alexander McKay, the "Champion of Scotland," for the right to challenge England's heavyweight champ. McKay died of a head injury shortly after losing the lengthy fight, and Byrne was charged but later cleared of manslaughter. Three years later, Byrne fought England's champion, James Burke. After 3 hours and 99 rounds, Byrne was knocked out. He died days later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2023, 08:57:24 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/BVOz4rL.png)

Downtown ATL ca. 1962 ... Peachtree Street.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2023, 09:07:37 AM
62 was a good year

maybe not for wine, but.......
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2023, 09:08:50 AM
1961 Bordeauxs are highly prized.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2023, 09:14:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/dtXFQQe.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2023, 12:00:58 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/349833729_291714723211356_3048455445717443190_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=AXK5I5VPwVcAX8L8MiR&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfB19E4nGEqk_QkgXix8PN1xIQGDr_aXaO5jlAdU9BM8Ng&oe=647E70D7)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 03, 2023, 08:04:46 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Edward White Becomes First American to Conduct a Spacewalk (1965)
The first spacewalk by an American astronaut was conducted by Edward White during NASA's Gemini IV mission, which was itself the first multi-day space flight undertaken by the US. Assisted and photographed by fellow astronaut James McDivitt and tethered to the spacecraft for safety, White floated in space for 22 minutes. His spacewalk occurred just months after Russian cosmonaut Alexey Leonov executed the first ever extravehicular activity.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2023, 07:56:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Pulitzer Prizes Awarded (1917)
The Pulitzer Prizes—prestigious awards presented annually by Columbia University for achievements in American journalism, literature, and music—were created by journalist and publisher Joseph Pulitzer, whose will funded the establishment of Columbia's school of journalism as well as the prizes. Ironically, Columbia had rejected donation offers from Pulitzer during his lifetime because, as one of the originators of yellow journalism, he was regarded as unscrupulous.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2023, 08:34:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/7chg86u.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2023, 10:19:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XApurBk.png)

Back in 1970 I was a construction laborer for the Summer, I was 17 years old, and got hired to work for this Carpenter-Foreman named Harry Ford building a foundation for a giant hillside Teepee and wood deck under The Hollywood Sign, owned by Jack Poet of Jack Poet VW. Harry was the coolest guy, and 7 years later when I saw Star  Wars I thought Han Solo looked familiar, so I stayed in the theatre to read the screen credits, and when I saw HARRISON FORD come on the screen, it hit me that he was Harry Ford, the Carpenter. The Film Business gained a Star, and the world of Construction lost a great Carpenter. He was a real good Carpenter.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2023, 10:22:28 AM
so, was he a great Carpenter. or just a real good Carpenter?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2023, 10:52:57 AM
He was proficient.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 07:23:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yFnhWw1.png)

Everything is bigger today, mostly.  This is 1949.  Might be a newish concept at the time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2023, 07:57:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Six-Day War Begins (1967)
After a period of relative calm, border incidents between Israel and Syria, Egypt, and Jordan increased during the early 1960s. Palestinian guerrilla attacks on Israel from bases in Syria led to increased hostility between the two countries. After Egypt signed a defense treaty with Jordan, Israel launched a preemptive air strike against the three Arab states, capturing the Sinai Peninsula, Gaza Strip, West Bank, Old City of Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 10:04:49 AM
A London bus trailing a wood gas generator. During and after WWII the supply of oil was restricted in half the world. The wood gas generators allowed to feed the petrol engines with a mix of hydrogen, carbon monoxide and methane obtained by burning wood with limited air, allowing the engines to work at less than a half of its nominal power.  15 millions of wood gas generators were sold in Europe in the nineteen forties.(https://i.imgur.com/QEXGwrq.png)

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All reactions:
873873


[/color]

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 05, 2023, 12:15:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XApurBk.png)

Back in 1970 I was a construction laborer for the Summer, I was 17 years old, and got hired to work for this Carpenter-Foreman named Harry Ford building a foundation for a giant hillside Teepee and wood deck under The Hollywood Sign, owned by Jack Poet of Jack Poet VW. Harry was the coolest guy, and 7 years later when I saw Star  Wars I thought Han Solo looked familiar, so I stayed in the theatre to read the screen credits, and when I saw HARRISON FORD come on the screen, it hit me that he was Harry Ford, the Carpenter. The Film Business gained a Star, and the world of Construction lost a great Carpenter. He was a real good Carpenter.
Are you serious? You personally worked carpentry with Harrison Ford,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 12:35:47 PM
No, I just copied that from FB, it's another's post.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2023, 01:28:24 PM
On ten-cent beer night, when an estimated 60,000 cups of brew are sold to a crowd of 25,134, the Indians forfeit the game due to the unruly behavior of their fans. June 4, 1974.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/351161827_686995636522867_2080313882417759516_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=hYr81ZBgy70AX-bLgqz&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDW42UKmAESMz0OjFSw4j4dn8oqCez_Tj8vti3-q3xAGw&oe=6483A96D)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 03:10:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/dAv6z8p.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 03:46:04 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/aobTMn2.png)

What If Today's Cars Were Retro Designed Decades Ago? (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/features/modern-retro-cars-design-illustrations/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AMT%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR1iEVU5aNfzWrBOcV3CfNF7-PT2w-a9idLhDGYI4Oe6q3Lw8vp_0BZ5clE)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on June 05, 2023, 03:47:33 PM
I might like it better if it actually looked like that.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 05, 2023, 06:34:38 PM
On ten-cent beer night, when an estimated 60,000 cups of brew are sold to a crowd of 25,134, the Indians forfeit the game due to the unruly behavior of their fans. June 4, 1974.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/351161827_686995636522867_2080313882417759516_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=hYr81ZBgy70AX-bLgqz&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDW42UKmAESMz0OjFSw4j4dn8oqCez_Tj8vti3-q3xAGw&oe=6483A96D)
Brother and his buddies went - good times. The two teams brawled like a week or two before so prolly not a good nite to sell cheap suds
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on June 06, 2023, 06:56:37 AM
I remember hearing about this.  I think it was free bat night too.  So the first 2000 fans in the door also got one of those little free bats.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2023, 08:07:09 AM
back in the 70s a free bat was probably the regular size
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2023, 08:07:42 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Drive-In Theater Opens in New Jersey (1933)
The drive-in theater was the creation of New Jersey chemical company magnate Richard M. Hollingshead, Jr. In 1932, Hollingshead nailed a screen to trees in his backyard and set a projector on the hood of his car. After applying for a patent for his creation, Hollingshead opened the first drive-in the next year. Though it only operated for three years, the concept soon caught on in other states.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2023, 08:18:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/e4Zt1tU.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 06, 2023, 08:38:04 AM
I remember hearing about this.  I think it was free bat night too.  So the first 2000 fans in the door also got one of those little free bats. 
I remember that also. Not a great idea by the Indians promotional department. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 06, 2023, 08:39:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/e4Zt1tU.jpg)
A very appropriate image as today is the 79th Anniversary of the Landings at Normandy by the allied troops. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2023, 08:52:46 AM


(https://i.imgur.com/8lpXO6l.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/OMeT9QF.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2023, 08:53:39 AM


(https://i.imgur.com/dNgG0Lu.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/pEJzsFH.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2023, 08:54:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/8bT5riX.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/g5f5YKR.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 06, 2023, 11:04:44 AM
A very appropriate image as today is the 79th Anniversary of the Landings at Normandy by the allied troops.
Agreed and those boys (most were very young) went through hell on that spot.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2023, 11:07:55 AM
The Utah beachhead was established without many casualties, the Omaha beach was bad.  The Germans had a seasoned division there we didn't know about.  It was understrength, but had a lot of experience in Russia.

Monty was supposed to take Caen on Day One but that was never going to happen.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 06, 2023, 11:59:46 AM
The Utah beachhead was established without many casualties, the Omaha beach was bad.  The Germans had a seasoned division there we didn't know about.  It was understrength, but had a lot of experience in Russia.

Monty was supposed to take Caen on Day One but that was never going to happen.
I think it was Omaha that they very-nearly abandoned.  It was so rough that they seriously considered just giving up on that one and putting the troops on the others.  There were two main reasons that they didn't:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2023, 06:22:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/EubrLy8.png)

The Dornier Do X: The world’s largest “flying boat”. It had a wingspan of 157 feet (48 meters) and length of 130 feet (40 meters), was powered by 12 engines and carried 169 passengers. 1929
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 07, 2023, 08:46:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Zoot Suit Riots Come to an End (1943)
Named for the style of clothing favored by the mainly Mexican-American victims of these clashes, the Zoot Suit Riots erupted between American servicemen stationed in Los Angeles, California, during World War II and the city's minority residents. While the local press lauded the attacks by the servicemen and described them as having a "cleansing effect," First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt denounced them as "race riots" rooted in discrimination.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2023, 01:08:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5iy8VSh.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2023, 07:45:04 AM
Newton vs Leibniz, the great Calculus Controversy:
v/ PhysicsInHistory  & Cantor's Paradise
The development of calculus is one of the most important advancements in the history of mathematics and has played a critical role in the physical sciences. The dispute over its invention, often referred to as the "calculus priority dispute," was between two of the greatest mathematicians of the 17th century, Sir Isaac Newton and Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz.
Isaac Newton began developing his methods of "fluxions," (later to become known as calculus) in the mid-1660s. However, he was initially reluctant to publish his work due to his aversion to potential criticism and controversy. The ideas were used in his monumental work, "Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica," but the mathematical methods he used in the "Principia" were mostly geometric, following the mathematical style of the time.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, a German mathematician and philosopher, started working on his version of calculus around 1674, and he first published in 1684, almost 20 years after Newton made his original discoveries. Leibniz developed much of the notation used in calculus today, including the integral sign ∫ and the d used in derivatives and integrals.
The controversy began in the early 1690s when Newton claimed that Leibniz had plagiarized his work. This was after the Royal Society received a letter from Fatio de Duillier, a Swiss mathematician and Newton's friend, claiming that Leibniz had learned of Newton's unpublished work on calculus during his visit to London in 1673.
Leibniz denied the allegations and insisted on his independent discovery. The Royal Society, which Newton presided over, set up an "impartial" committee to decide on the matter, but it was far from unbiased. In 1713, the committee published a report, written by Newton himself, which unsurprisingly concluded that Newton was the true inventor of calculus and that Leibniz was a fraud. The dispute was bitter and divisive, straining relations between English mathematicians and their continental European counterparts. In the years following, the English largely stuck to Newton's notation of fluxions while the Europeans used Leibniz's notation.
Today, historians generally agree that both Newton and Leibniz independently developed the fundamental principles of calculus, albeit with different notations and approaches. Both made substantial contributions, and the notation of calculus used today is primarily that of Leibniz. But the controversy itself is a historical testament to the high stakes and intense rivalries that can exist in the world of science and mathematics.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2023, 08:25:10 AM
The Fermi Paradox (seti.org) (https://www.seti.org/fermi-paradox-0)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2023, 08:53:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Sir Charles Kingsford Smith Completes First Transpacific Flight (1928)
The first successful transpacific flight was carried out by Australian aviator Charles Kingsford-Smith and his crew, who piloted the trimotor monoplane Southern Cross from Oakland, California, to Brisbane, Australia. During the 7,250-mi (11,668-km) journey, the Southern Cross stopped to refuel in Hawaii, then flew on to Fiji—where it was the first aircraft ever to land on the island—and then embarked on the final leg of its trip.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2023, 10:11:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/TdtCKBD.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 08:07:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/56ZvrxH.png)

When we moved to ATL in 1964, this was the only Sears in town (so far as I knew).    You ordered from their catalogue and drove down to pick it up.  It became derelict over the years and suddenly was revived into a hugely successful popular shopping center kind of thing, even in this era.  Being next to the Belt Line hasn't hurt.  We can walk to it, but it's so crowded we rarely do any more.  A baseball park was across the street for the minor league team, the Crackers.  Now it's a shopping mall with Whole Foods and a Home Depot etc.

(https://i.imgur.com/VYL6rOk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 08:13:28 AM
Ibrahim ibn Yaqub (912-966), a traveler from medieval Muslim Spain, wrote: “walking through the bazaar’s of the city of Mainz (Germany), I was struck by two things: the first was that various spices brought from India were sold in this city, and the second was that silver dirhams minted in Samarkand were in circulation in this country.”

From the eighth to the twelfth century AD, the European region was under the influence of Islam. After the Abbasid Caliphate (750-1258) took control of the Great Silk Road, established close trade ties with China, Byzantium, the Viking tribes and the Slavs of Northern Europe. At that time, the largest medieval mints existed in the cities of Bukhara, Samarkand and Chach (Tashkent), and in the IX-X centuries silver coins were continuously issued here. These coins quickly found their way to Northern Europe without entering local circulation. Thus, it is safe to say that gold and silver dirhams minted by the caliphate were accepted as an international standard at that time and were in circulation on all trade routes.

Below is an example of a gold coin minted by the King of East England Offa (757-796). The inscriptions on the coin are copied from dirhams of Offa's contemporary Caliph Al-Mansur (754-775). Since the coin was copied fairly accurately, you can read the name of the ruler "Offa Rex" (King Offa) and the numbers 157 AH (773-74). However, it is clear that the stamper did not read Arabic. On the obverse of the coin (Obverse) there are errors in Arabic letters around the Offa inscription. On the reverse side (reverse) the word of the word "Shahada" is written.


(https://i.imgur.com/gNBZObk.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 09:27:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Qvf2PFG.png)

In Pineville, OR, said to still have a dial tone ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 09:40:29 AM
Before is late 1970s and today, a spot near me:

(https://i.imgur.com/Q6mehQG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fbw1xID.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 11:40:42 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/X2iwVCP.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 12:12:24 PM
Completed I-85 Collapse Rebuild Time-Lapse - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR0PB0BvKVI)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 11:55:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yKTycSr.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 12:09:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/dAmmvOE.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 12, 2023, 01:41:16 PM
The Fermi Paradox (seti.org) (https://www.seti.org/fermi-paradox-0)
I once saw a similar theory that said, essentially, that we will never discover any interesting extraterrestrial life.

Basically this theory comes down to the same time issue. 

A million years is a VERY short time on a galactic scale and consider where life on earth was a million years ago or a million years from now. Any life existing elsewhere would either be so primitive as to be fundamentally uninteresting or so advanced that they'll discover us (not the other way around) and when they do their technology will be so advanced that we'll be 100% at their mercy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 01:55:38 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/kDVE86w.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 01:56:24 PM
A million years is a VERY short time on a galactic scale and consider where life on earth was a million years ago or a million years from now. Any life existing elsewhere would either be so primitive as to be fundamentally uninteresting or so advanced that they'll discover us (not the other way around) and when they do their technology will be so advanced that we'll be 100% at their mercy.
I try and imagine a civilization a million years of technology in our future and ponder why they would find us any more interesting than slug worms to us.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 06:32:28 PM
Beginning in Chadron, Nebraska, the Great Cowboy Race was a thousand miles of prairie to Buffalo Bill’s Wild West Show in Chicago. Out of nine riders, seven crossed the finish including famed outlaw Doc Middleton.

https://history.nebraska.gov/marker-monday-chadron-chicago-cowboy-race/?fbclid=IwAR33i_dDLCJcqCwqeD4qAEJ8kcYeLHDuoubp8deKAmNzeT7yne8YF_GYsnk (https://history.nebraska.gov/marker-monday-chadron-chicago-cowboy-race/?fbclid=IwAR33i_dDLCJcqCwqeD4qAEJ8kcYeLHDuoubp8deKAmNzeT7yne8YF_GYsnk)

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/349126851_1434317227419677_2554139876173525568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=4JjEXav5ii0AX-hj8wg&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBndRdNSc8n-L-dki3yDBxfCT5mpV7jmFr--XVwmsurCQ&oe=648C4EAE)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 07:44:55 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/350948815_209370711925253_4531547936046687669_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=QsdGL-UjP8QAX_BhDnT&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfC_GBeuOysuRA20-Ci4t6MEWLVFFDnelM32b4_3Z-my3w&oe=648D5A9B)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 08:04:36 PM
I think there is a Kettenkrad in this picture?! The Kettenkrad is a truly unusual vehicle for the simple fact that no other vehicle like it has entered service, either before or after. It combines features of a motorbike with a tracked chassis, a combination that looks as weird as it sounds but actually became one of the most capable vehicles in existence over rough ground.
Measuring just 1 meter wide and capable of reaching 44 mph, the Kettenkrad was a mobile, nimble and fast little machine that could go anywhere and do anything.
https://tankhistoria.com/wwii/kettenkrad/


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354005811_1564894340668609_8146297722282250325_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=NkgGwoaHPsUAX8fFQx7&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfC7RPM3awYiCtNVpHac69_HuYpdON13PTAlueDO6hGqfw&oe=648CF614)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 10:54:21 PM
The ABA's Miami Floridians team started off the 1970-71 season 14-15 under Hal Blitman but when they won only 4 of their next 19 games, Owner Ned Doyle decided to fire the coach. So it soon became a whole new team and a new coach.
Ned Doyle had bought the team for $1,000,000 in May 1970. An advertising wizard, Doyle was the man behind the popular Avis “We Try Harder” and Volkswagen campaigns. Remember the commercial where they tried to fit Wilt Chamberlain into a Volkswagen Beetle?
Blitman was replaced by Bob Bass, the Texas Tech coach.
Bass had coached the Denver Rockets for two seasons and would later become a successful general manager for the San Antonio Spurs and Charlotte Hornets, twice winning NBA Executive of the Year awards.
Though they made the playoffs, the team still couldn’t draw any fans. Financial problems continued under the new owner. Paychecks bounced on more than a few occasions.
Doyle promised the people of Florida a contender, so he knew that a fresh start was needed. His first move was to get rid of all the players on the team but keep Coach Blitman, and then he made the unusual maneuver the team’s marketing slogan, putting full-page ads in Florida newspapers that read:
“Instead of Firing the Coach, We Fired the Team.”
Doyle knew he had to get more people in the stands in order to meet the payroll, so the advertising whiz was always promoting.
There were go-go dancing competitions and free pantyhose for the first 500 ladies. Live turkeys were given away at Thanksgiving. Fifteen pounds of smoked fish went to one lucky fan while another filled his trunk with 57 pounds of Irish potatoes. Fans went home with vats of gefilte fish and kegs of beer. Bagels were tossed into the stands during timeouts. Dolphin’s placekicker Garo Yepremian tried to kick footballs into a basket during halftime. The overhead scoreboard at the Miami Beach Convention Center blew out smoke every time a Floridan made a three-point shot. The Floridians even had their own fight song, “Get That Ball,” performed by popular singer Teresa Brewer.
There were basketball-boxing doubleheaders featuring former heavyweight champion Jimmy Ellis. Muhammad Ali gave boxing exhibitions.
“The mistake they made was that they had Ali give a two or three round exhibition before the game and when it was over, half the people would leave,” player Mack Calvin said.
And of course, there were the ball girls in bikinis.
The novel idea came from the team’s new public relations guy – Ken Small, a former Miami sportswriter and magazine publisher. The girls wore red, white, and blue bikinis and white boots. They stood on the end lines behind the baskets and retrieved balls if they went out of bounds. Except for participating in ice cream and cake-eating contests at halftime, the girls really didn’t do much except look good.
Eventually, the girls did put in a little dance routine. Calvin recalled, “The girls were pretty and attractive, but half of them couldn’t really dance. It was more like a wiggle. It was entertainment, no one in professional sports at the time had anything like it. It was the Miami Floridians who paved the way for the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders and the dance teams that everybody in the NBA has today.”
The ball girls were a big hit throughout the league. They took their show on the road, going to Madison Square Garden in New York for an ABA doubleheader around Christmastime. Before the game, three of the girls popped out of a Santa Claus bag and the crowd went nuts. The next-day headline in a New York newspaper read: “Ball Girls Invade Garden.”
One of the job hazards for the girls was dodging the many advances from men that came their way. Surprisingly, it was the referees who were the worst offenders. One young blonde beauty told the Orlando Sentinel, “Oh those referees, they are always asking us for dates, even more than the fans and visiting players. But of course, it is strictly against the rules.”
Under the category of things that would never happen today, two of the ball girls were under the age of 18.
Doyle also made some big personnel gaffes. He was a great promoter, but he wasn’t a great judge of talent.
When Rick Barry was jumping from team to team, Doyle didn’t even make an attempt to get him, saying that Barry “wasn’t a team player and had bad knees.”
The 1971-72 season would be the last for the Floridians.
There had been rumors throughout the season that the club was on the auction block, and when an attempt to sell the team and move it to Cincinnati fell through, Ned Doyle disbanded the franchise in June 1972.
The players were disbursed throughout the league. Mack Calvin went to Carolina, Warren Jabali and Willie Long to Denver, Ron Franz to Memphis, and Larry Jones to Utah.
When it was over, the Floridians had lost $2 million in the four years of their existence.
“I really enjoyed my days in Miami. It’s one of my favorite cities,” Mack Calvin reminisced. “I lived in Coral Gables. My daughter was born in Miami. It was a great time. We just didn’t have a great team.”

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/352282049_224432210362837_2772613812246044980_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=TopVvL6DnKYAX9OwjWL&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfA695j0Jc7SOKBIhpqGR4u3_xfRr0a_YjvX2hVJWImVXQ&oe=648CC1B6)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2023, 07:43:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Martin Luther Marries a Catholic Nun (1525)
Eight years after he issued his 95 Theses and sparked the Protestant Reformation, Luther married former Catholic nun Katherina von Bora, with whom he raised six children. Though little is known about her, she is considered an important figure of the Reformation due to her role in helping to define Protestant family life and setting the precedent for clergy marriages. Von Bora was one of 12 nuns Luther helped escape from a convent in 1523.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 13, 2023, 09:56:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Martin Luther Marries a Catholic Nun (1525)
Eight years after he issued his 95 Theses and sparked the Protestant Reformation, Luther married former Catholic nun Katherina von Bora, with whom he raised six children. Though little is known about her, she is considered an important figure of the Reformation due to her role in helping to define Protestant family life and setting the precedent for clergy marriages. Von Bora was one of 12 nuns Luther helped escape from a convent in 1523.
Fitting with this "weird history" thread:

One thing that I've always thought ironic is that while Martin Luther and Henry VIII were the two men most directly responsible for setting off the Protestant Reformation, both lived and died believing themselves to be good Catholics. Neither was actually trying to make the change that ultimately resulted, they were only trying to correct a Catholic church that they believed had gotten off track. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2023, 10:51:30 AM
they weren't wrong
IMO
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 13, 2023, 11:13:27 AM
they weren't wrong
IMO
I absolutely agree and the proof is in how the other people of the time responded.  

As tension between the English Monarchy and the Papacy increased the Pope eventually took the extraordinary step of "deconsecrating" all burial grounds in England.  Per Catholic tradition a deceased person can only go to heaven if their earthly remains are buried in a consecrated grave.  Thus, this step theoretically meant that everyone in England would go to hell as would all of their ancestors.  

The purpose of this step by the pope was to convince to the English People to rise up against the monarchy.  Instead, the opposite happened.  The English Monarchy did have to deal with a few people that wanted to go back to being Catholic but the MUCH bigger problem for the English Monarchy was that a lot of people in England felt that the Anglican Church had not moved far enough away from Catholicism.  

The Spanish Armada was, in effect, the Pope's fleet as the Pope supported King Phillip II's effort to re-Catholicize England.  The Pope, Phillip, and the Spanish generally believed that the English people would rise up in support of Catholicism.  It did not happen.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 13, 2023, 11:39:46 AM
I absolutely agree and the proof is in how the other people of the time responded. 

As tension between the English Monarchy and the Papacy increased the Pope eventually took the extraordinary step of "deconsecrating" all burial grounds in England.  Per Catholic tradition a deceased person can only go to heaven if their earthly remains are buried in a consecrated grave.  Thus, this step theoretically meant that everyone in England would go to hell as would all of their ancestors. 

The purpose of this step by the pope was to convince to the English People to rise up against the monarchy.  Instead, the opposite happened.  The English Monarchy did have to deal with a few people that wanted to go back to being Catholic but the MUCH bigger problem for the English Monarchy was that a lot of people in England felt that the Anglican Church had not moved far enough away from Catholicism. 

It's an interesting point on religion, actually. 

People often tend to believe in the constricts of their religion, right up until it conflicts with something they personally want to do. 

I.e. the whole Catholicism / birth control thing. Sounds great until you're in your 30s and you already have two kids and really don't want any more. So the Pope may say it's a sin, but when the rubber meets the road, you're gonna be wearing rubbers from that point on. (Or getting snipped, or the woman going on the pill, etc etc. Point being the "rhythm method / NFP" is no longer your child-avoidance scheme.) You don't stop going to church nor do you stop professing to be a Catholic, even though you are openly and deliberately defying the beliefs of your religious leaders. Because being Catholic is identity, and you're not going to give that up just because their beliefs are actually really inconvenient to follow. 

Identity is really powerful. And I don't think we give enough weight to it when we look at human behavior. I feel like it's a much better explanatory factor than rationality. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2023, 11:45:09 AM
That sounds like my wife, she'd never leave the Catholic Church, and attends religiously.

She doesn't buy everything they sell.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 13, 2023, 12:13:06 PM
It's an interesting point on religion, actually.

People often tend to believe in the constricts of their religion, right up until it conflicts with something they personally want to do.

I.e. the whole Catholicism / birth control thing. Sounds great until you're in your 30s and you already have two kids and really don't want any more. So the Pope may say it's a sin, but when the rubber meets the road, you're gonna be wearing rubbers from that point on. (Or getting snipped, or the woman going on the pill, etc etc. Point being the "rhythm method / NFP" is no longer your child-avoidance scheme.) You don't stop going to church nor do you stop professing to be a Catholic, even though you are openly and deliberately defying the beliefs of your religious leaders. Because being Catholic is identity, and you're not going to give that up just because their beliefs are actually really inconvenient to follow.

Identity is really powerful. And I don't think we give enough weight to it when we look at human behavior. I feel like it's a much better explanatory factor than rationality.

That sounds like my wife, she'd never leave the Catholic Church, and attends religiously.

She doesn't buy everything they sell.
I've seen the term "cafeteria Catholics" used to refer to Catholics who ascribe to certain parts of the Catholic doctrine.  

What I've never understood about that is that the doctrine of Papal Infallibility, to my way of thinking, makes this irreconcilable.  If the Pope is infallible then you can't agree with him on SOME issues, it HAS TO BE all or nothing.  

I know of no protestant religions that hold their leader as "infallible".  In fact, many protestant religions don't really have a leader at all, at least nothing comparable to the Catholic Pope.  Thus, I think that Protestants are are lot more free to engage in the selective adherence to various tenants of the religion without inconsistency.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2023, 12:19:39 PM
The Southern Baptist Convention has a "leader" of a sort and a governing council of a sort, but the individual churches vary a lot.  We're seeing the "United" Methodists in a major schism now as well.  It may be inherent that denominations tend to fracture into smaller and smaller pieces.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 13, 2023, 12:21:31 PM
Point being the "rhythm method / NFP" is no longer your child-avoidance scheme.
Old Joke:

Q:  Do you know what they call women who use the rhythm method of birth control?
A:  Mothers.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2023, 12:33:29 PM
That's great MB.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2023, 12:39:56 PM
One problem with ultra strict interpretations of any religious "code" is that many people will either wonder off or quietly ignore it.  The other problem, I think, is that "experts" (ha) will interpret some religious text in very different ways.  This leads to schisms of course.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 13, 2023, 12:41:54 PM
I've seen the term "cafeteria Catholics" used to refer to Catholics who ascribe to certain parts of the Catholic doctrine. 

What I've never understood about that is that the doctrine of Papal Infallibility, to my way of thinking, makes this irreconcilable.  If the Pope is infallible then you can't agree with him on SOME issues, it HAS TO BE all or nothing. 

I know of no protestant religions that hold their leader as "infallible".  In fact, many protestant religions don't really have a leader at all, at least nothing comparable to the Catholic Pope.  Thus, I think that Protestants are are lot more free to engage in the selective adherence to various tenants of the religion without inconsistency. 
I dunno, I think David Koresh and Jim Jones were considered "infallible" right? :57:

But yeah, there are "cafeteria Catholics", but all sorts of other people profess to believe something but do something completely different when it comes to them personally. I had a boss right out of college who was a Pakistani Muslim, who would fast during the day as is traditional for Ramadan (I think that was the holiday) but would drink beer otherwise (obviously not allowed). I had neighbors who were Mormon but were "Jack Mormon" and would come over and drink my homebrew. I've worked with an Indian Hindu who ate beef--just don't tell his mom lol. 

Hell, there are more than a few vegetarians that suddenly are okay eating burgers when they're drunk. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 13, 2023, 05:09:29 PM
I dunno, I think David Koresh and Jim Jones were considered "infallible" right? :57:
You are right (AFAIK) about Koresh and Jones but they led miniscule groups not large religions.  

I was referring more to this:
The Southern Baptist Convention has a "leader" of a sort and a governing council of a sort, but the individual churches vary a lot.  We're seeing the "United" Methodists in a major schism now as well.  It may be inherent that denominations tend to fracture into smaller and smaller pieces.
The Southern Baptist "leader" is more-or-less typical of large protestant denominations.  They may have a leader but he or she isn't a Pope which is analogous to a King.  They tend to be more like an "executive director" in that they manage the day-to-day operations but the power to make the big decision rests with the membership in one way or another.  
But yeah, there are "cafeteria Catholics", but all sorts of other people profess to believe something but do something completely different when it comes to them personally. I had a boss right out of college who was a Pakistani Muslim, who would fast during the day as is traditional for Ramadan (I think that was the holiday) but would drink beer otherwise (obviously not allowed). I had neighbors who were Mormon but were "Jack Mormon" and would come over and drink my homebrew. I've worked with an Indian Hindu who ate beef--just don't tell his mom lol.

Hell, there are more than a few vegetarians that suddenly are okay eating burgers when they're drunk.
This definitely happens with at least most religions.  The specific issue, as I see it, with Catholics is that the doctrine of Papal Infallibility makes it more inconsistent for a Catholic than it is for a Protestant.  Ie, you can be a Southern Baptist and disagree with the Denomination on say Birth Control (I don't even know what their stance is, just using your example from above).  Within the Catholic faith I've never quite understood how someone can be a Catholic but disagree with them on a given issue.  

If the Pope is infallible then Catholic doctrine (which is approved by the Pope) must necessarily be correct in ALL instances.  The alternative is that the Pope is not infallible in which case I would say that you aren't really a Catholic.  It is different for a Baptist or a Methodist because Baptists and Methodists do not believe that their religious leaders are infallible.  Thus, they can disagree with them.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2023, 12:18:32 AM
Hell, there are more than a few vegetarians that suddenly are okay eating burgers when they're drunk.

everyone has to deal with their own sins

hopefully, they can be forgiven
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2023, 12:23:31 AM
If the Pope is infallible then Catholic doctrine (which is approved by the Pope) must necessarily be correct in ALL instances.  The alternative is that the Pope is not infallible in which case I would say that you aren't really a Catholic.  It is different for a Baptist or a Methodist because Baptists and Methodists do not believe that their religious leaders are infallible.  Thus, they can disagree with them. 
I think anyone of any religion can and will disagree to a certain extent with one issue or another.
no matter how strictly things are worded.
It's the individual's mind and moral compass that make the call.

Perhaps weak and irresponsible and undisciplined to the letter of the religion, but..........

it is what it is 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2023, 08:01:45 AM
I'd call this a mountain, definitely ...

(https://i.imgur.com/ASGifoY.png)

Dayton, Virginia: The largest volcano in Virginia is Mole Hill. It is 577 meters tall (1,893 feet above sea level). Mole Hill is 350 meters above a limestone valley. This valley is full of a dense population of trees but lacks grass. The volcanic vegetation includes rare flowers that attract flying insects during summer and spring. Mole Hill has hundreds of creeping creatures, with many tourists detailing loads of bugs and spiders. Due to the lack of grazing grounds, Mole Hill is less endowed with wildlife. However, a few deer can be found here and there. Those who tackle Mole Hill are rewarded by its breathtaking views from the top. If you are “anti-bug,” know that Mole Hill has loads of them. While tons of spiders are fascinating to some of us, we understand if you want to skip this hike and admire Mole Hill from ground level.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2023, 08:41:31 AM
Silver was once mined in a German town called "Joachim's Valley." Coins minted from this mine were called "joachmisthaler," which was shortened into "thaler," which later morphed into the word "dollar." Provided by FactRetriever.com
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2023, 08:45:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

TWA Flight 847 Hijacked (1985)
While on its way from Athens to Rome in 1985, Trans World Airlines Flight 847 was hijacked by members of the Amal Movement terrorist group. The aircraft's 153 passengers and crew endured a three-day intercontinental ordeal during which one passenger, a US Navy diver, was murdered. Though most of the passengers were released during this time, dozens were held hostage for more than two weeks. Flight attendant Uli Derickson is widely credited with saving the lives of many passengers by doing what?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 14, 2023, 09:38:33 AM
everyone has to deal with their own sins

hopefully, they can be forgiven
4 putting again,FF?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2023, 10:41:40 AM
not lately, but plenty of 3 putts
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2023, 02:58:40 PM
https://youtu.be/rxK1VaHFMlI
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2023, 05:00:09 PM
FWIW:
I've been watching this series (https://youtu.be/sjaITUKwazc) and I think it is reasonably well done. 

They go pretty in depth on the Normandy Landings.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2023, 09:09:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Arlington National Cemetery Established (1864)
Early in the Civil War, Confederate General Robert E. Lee and his family fled their Virginia estate. Shortly thereafter, Arlington National Cemetery was established there. More than 290,000 people are now interred in Arlington, a privilege that is limited to active, retired, and former members of the armed forces, Medal of Honor recipients, high-ranking federal government officials, and their dependents.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2023, 09:14:09 AM
The requirements for burial are more strict that for being in an urn.  A Purple Heart will do it if it is due to a combat death (burial).

Arlington National Cemetery > Funerals > Scheduling a Funeral > Establishing Eligibility (arlingtoncemetery.mil) (https://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/funerals/scheduling-a-funeral/establishing-eligibility)

I still think about Gatorama coming up from Atlanta that time to represent the board here.  There were a lot of folks who made the effort from Cincy as well.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2023, 09:17:30 AM
Gatorama didn't seem to mind traveling and obviously was a fine gentleman
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2023, 10:04:45 AM
Guess locations of these photos:

(https://i.imgur.com/4OqCWPG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2023, 10:34:34 AM
Van Gogh and Millet - Van Gogh Museum (https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en/stories/van-gogh-and-millet#1)

(https://i.imgur.com/8S8yaf4.png)

I recall visiting the rather small Millet museum in Barbizon a few years back, it was quite something. And we visited the mental hospital near St. Remy de Provence a while later where van Gogh painted when he was a patient, also quite something.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2023, 02:07:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/S2e1Kh4.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2023, 03:03:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/X6SamLe.png)

This is the cockpit in which Charles Lindbergh sat while piloting the first aircraft to make a solo non-stop transatlantic flight, the Spirit of Saint Louis, in May of 1927. Note the periscope used instead of a forward window. The Spirit was designed and built in San Diego to compete for the $25,000 Orteig Prize, which was offered by New York hotel owner Raymond Orteig to the first aviator to cross the Atlantic non-stop, either from New York to Paris or vice versa.

That gear that looks a bit like valves might be just that for moving fuel from one tank to another to maintain trim.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2023, 03:06:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MhGT4o0.png)

On June 12, 1930, Delta expanded passenger service east to Atlanta and west to Fort Worth.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 15, 2023, 03:09:37 PM
Top photo is from Aderaan,which isn't there anymore. Hang on to that might be worth something
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2023, 11:27:19 PM
Lee Lawrie was born in Rixdorf, Germany, in 1877, and came to America with his family at the age of four. His artistic talent revealed itself first as he sketched and drew the world around him as a young boy. At fourteen he was hired to do odd jobs in a sculptor’s studio, there he taught himself to model clay in the evenings. Within a year he had improved his skill and was allowed to translate models into full size sculpture for the Chicago Columbian Exposition of 1893. Later he worked in the studio of Beaux Arts sculptor Augustus Saint-Gaudens.

In 1910 Lawrie earned a Bachelor of Fine Arts from Yale and taught there until 1919.

He began working with Goodhue in 1895, his specialization in architectural sculpture complemented Goodhue’s early Gothic revival designs. The reredos (carved stone altar screen) in St. Thomas Church in New York is an important example of his collaboration with Goodhue which culminated in the exterior sculpture of the Capitol in Lincoln.

Goodhue and Lawrie had a vision of the exterior sculpture for the Capitol being an integral part of the architecture. Lawrie’s figures are engaged with the building, not separate and free standing, their form coming from the stone, buttresses and pylons of the building face. With his work for Nebraska, Lawrie brought Architectural sculpture into the modern era. Later work on Rockefeller Center continued this modern emphasis. From 1921-1954 Lawrie received eight national awards. He died in 1962, one of America’s foremost architectural sculptors.


(https://www.columbiamagazine.com/photos/32710.jpg)

(https://thecalloftheland.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/blogsower.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2023, 08:37:44 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/0Ktjwn4.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2023, 08:49:58 AM
The Gibson Girl was an iconic representation of the feminine ideal in the US at the turn of the 20th century, as portrayed by illustrator Charles Dana Gibson. The Gibson Girl was tall and slender, with an hourglass figure and tightly corseted wasp waist. Why was an RAAF survival radio transmitter carried by World War II aircraft on over-water operations nicknamed the "Gibson Girl"?

(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/gibson-girls-1900-granger.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2023, 09:15:40 AM
New Dyson jet engine design:

(https://i.imgur.com/boO59RT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2023, 09:23:04 AM
What’s the proper way to break ground for the new home of the Cornhuskers? With a team and a plow, of course!

University officials broke ground on Memorial Stadium on April 26, 1923. An estimated thousand people showed up to hear speeches and watch Chancellor Samuel Avery ceremonially plow a furrow.

Read "Memorial Stadium Turns 100": https://fal.cn/3z8D0


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/347400763_728344292632498_5576846913850086099_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=50FmA8-hJREAX9k_19F&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCXA7ZzrgDebS-4VaUI7NAGcBfRSKcq6NzOYOXhoFEbXQ&oe=649319EA)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2023, 06:08:02 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Juneteenth Celebrations (1865)
Also known as Freedom Day or Emancipation Day, Juneteenth is a US holiday that commemorates the day when the slaves of Texas learned that they were legally free. Although President Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation was formally issued on Jan 1, 1863, it had little immediate effect on slaves' day-to-day lives. In Texas, it was not until June 19, 1865, when Union General Gordon Granger and 2,000 federal troops took over the state, that it was enforced.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2023, 07:29:27 AM
Lincoln's Emancipation did nothing at all for slaves in Maryland etc.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 19, 2023, 07:57:25 AM
Read "Memorial Stadium Turns 100"


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/347400763_728344292632498_5576846913850086099_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=50FmA8-hJREAX9k_19F&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCXA7ZzrgDebS-4VaUI7NAGcBfRSKcq6NzOYOXhoFEbXQ&oe=649319EA)
Much rather have any of those cars in the back ground than today's electric. Even if you needed a football player to crank one up
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 19, 2023, 07:58:57 AM
Lincoln's Emancipation did nothing at all for slaves in Maryland etc.
Strategic move to outrage the rebs and give those enslaved hope.Think it worked
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2023, 07:59:44 AM
They were rattletraps, no way I'd want one for more than a show car situation, and I'd probably need to trailer it to an event.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2023, 08:01:43 AM
Strategic move to outrage the rebs and give those enslaved hope.Think it worked
I think it was more focused on Europe than the enslaved, who would not have heard a word about it generally speaking.  My guess is the rebs chuckled at it.
 The fact it did not apply to the Border States was a kind of issue I think, though he felt he lacked the power to issue it universally.  It didn't even apply to Delaware.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2023, 08:21:44 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iw3ff8W.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2023, 12:20:14 PM
Those enslaved in Delaware remained in bondage until December 6, 1865, when the 13th Amendment was declared ratified, without Delaware's concurrence.F
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 19, 2023, 12:23:02 PM
I think it was more focused on Europe than the enslaved, who would not have heard a word about it generally speaking.  My guess is the rebs chuckled at it.
Exactly, it was all about the European powers. Throughout the war a major Confederate goal and Union fear was that England and/or France would recognize and support the Confederacy. 

The Emancipation Proclamation was issued primarily to eliminate that threat. The timing had to do with making it not appear to be a desperate move.
The fact it did not apply to the Border States was a kind of issue I think, though he felt he lacked the power to issue it universally.  It didn't even apply to Delaware.
Legally it was questionable even in the states that seceded. Lincoln based his authority there on his power as CiC. In the States still in the Union he had no power to take such an action. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on June 19, 2023, 12:44:44 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

First Juneteenth Celebrations (1865)
Also known as Freedom Day or Emancipation Day, Juneteenth is a US holiday that commemorates the day when the slaves of Texas learned that they were legally free. Although President Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation was formally issued on Jan 1, 1863, it had little immediate effect on slaves' day-to-day lives. In Texas, it was not until June 19, 1865, when Union General Gordon Granger and 2,000 federal troops took over the state, that it was enforced.


Yup Juneteenth is a really big deal here in Texas, it started here and it wasn't really celebrated nationally until fairly recently, last 20-30 years or so, and wasn't officially a national holiday until Biden signed it into law 2 years ago.

But I've enjoyed attending Juneteenth festivals and festivities in Austin forever.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2023, 02:30:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/JWpX45D.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 02:37:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/uiC5wA6.png)

I could totally fly that thing ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 06:19:50 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wPznhKy.png)
Customers line up outside the first McDonald's hamburger stand which was opened in 1948 by brothers Dick and Maurice McDonald in San Bernadino, Calif.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2023, 07:37:26 AM
Customers line up outside the first McDonald's hamburger stand which was opened in 1948 by brothers Dick and Maurice McDonald in San Bernadino, Calif.
That pic is so old they don't have milk shakes on the menu
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 21, 2023, 08:24:22 AM
Well the milk shake hadn't been invented yet 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 08:27:29 AM
The milkshake made it into the mainstream when in 1922 a Walgreens employee in Chicago, Ivar “Pop” Coulson, took an old-fashioned malted milk (milk, chocolate, and malt) and added two scoops of ice cream, creating a drink which became popular, soon becoming a high-demand drink for young adults around the country.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 21, 2023, 08:30:50 AM
Details Details 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2023, 08:57:44 AM


(https://i.imgur.com/61TCBin.png)


A novella called "Futility" that was published 14 years before the Titanic set sail seemed to have predicted the disaster.

"Futility (https://affiliate.insider.com/?amazonTrackingID=biauto-50096-20&h=c21a877685a6310c41f5169781422bc64b4f15fcf838c9c076ef5e73c449ff65&platform=msn_reviews&postID=5ac3eaf110d6bb29008b45a2&site=in&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.barnesandnoble.com%2Fw%2Fthe-wreck-of-the-titan-or-futility-morgan-robertson%2F1025286364%3Fean%3D9781455381142&utm_source=msn_reviews)," a novella written by American author Morgan Robertson, was published in 1898, 14 years before the Titanic set sail. It centered around the sinking of a fictional ship called the Titan.
According to Time, there's an eerie number of similarities between the ship's sinking in "Futility" and the Titanic (http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/04/14/author-predicts-titanic-sinking-14-years-earlier/) in real life.
First, the ship names are just two letters off (Titan vs Titanic). They were also said to be almost the same size, and both sank in April, due to an iceberg. Both ships had been described as unsinkable, and, sadly, both had just over the legally required amount of lifeboats, which were nowhere near enough.
The author was accused of being a psychic, but he explained that the uncanny similarities were simply a product of his extensive knowledge, saying (http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/04/14/author-predicts-titanic-sinking-14-years-earlier/), "I know what I'm writing about, that's all."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 09:09:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/AGeWrRe.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2023, 09:20:44 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Operation Barbarossa: Nazi Germany Invades the Soviet Union (1941)
The largest military operation of World War II, Operation Barbarossa was the codename for Nazi Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union. Named for 12th-century crusader and Holy Roman Emperor Frederick Barbarossa, the Axis operation included more than 4.5 million troops over a 1,800-mile (2,900-km) front. Though the Red Army suffered heavy losses, Operation Barbarossa failed and marked a turning point in the war that many believe sealed the Nazis' fate.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 06:33:47 AM
Same date as Napoleon invaded ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2023, 07:29:06 AM
same result
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 07:40:34 AM
same result
Same final outcome, yes, but differences in timing of course.  Napoleon basically "won" by taking Moscow, and then lost when it didn't matter to the Tsar or his forces.

Had Germany been able to take over the Caucusus in 1942, the outcome there could plausibly have changed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 07:44:46 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/cWAMCf9.png)

Boundary of North American and Eurasian Plate.
Aerial of Almannagja fissure, Thingvellir National Park, Iceland .
Almannagja- 7.7 km long, width 64 m, maximum throw is 30-40 m. It marks the eastern boundary of the North American plate. Its equivalent across the graben, marking the western boundary of the Eurasian plate is Hrafnagja. It is 11 km long, 68 m wide and a maximum throw of 30 m. Thingvellir is also renowned for its geological significance. The area is located on the Mid-Atlantic ridge, where the continents of Europe and America drift apart, causing activity. Standing in the Almannagja fissure, the visitor is literally situated between the continental plates.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 09:00:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/HubdDO9.png)

Unusual point of view of an M4 Sherman tank in Normandy.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 11:58:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/qKe6WFu.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 23, 2023, 12:18:19 PM
Damn Germans blew up the bridge
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 23, 2023, 12:21:35 PM
Damn Germans blew up the bridge
LoL, I don't think that is Remagen, ask @bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571) .
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 23, 2023, 01:32:19 PM
HuH? what did BaB live there?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 02:30:59 PM
You go talk to kindergartners or first-grade kids, you find a class full of science enthusiasts. They ask deep questions. They ask, "What is a dream, why do we have toes, why is the moon round, what is the birthday of the world, why is grass green?"
These are profound, important questions. They just bubble right out of them.
You go talk to 12th graders and there's none of that. They've become incurious. Something terrible has happened between kindergarten and 12th grade. ~Carl Sagan


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 02:31:39 PM
It's neat to see how little there was across the strait towards Sausalito etc.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 02:33:35 PM
Novix Presents: Lima - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTIdU2psSGg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 02:52:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/jT5eaqp.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 23, 2023, 03:26:17 PM
Something terrible has happened between kindergarten and 12th grade. ~Carl Sagan
Cars,Chics,Football,work,music for the truly demented - Golf
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: bayareabadger on June 23, 2023, 05:06:23 PM
Damn Germans blew up the bridge
A bit far for them, I’m afraid.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2023, 04:24:49 AM
You go talk to kindergartners or first-grade kids, you find a class full of science enthusiasts. They ask deep questions. They ask, "What is a dream, why do we have toes, why is the moon round, what is the birthday of the world, why is grass green?"
These are profound, important questions. They just bubble right out of them.
You go talk to 12th graders and there's none of that. They've become incurious. Something terrible has happened between kindergarten and 12th grade. ~Carl Sagan
I agree with the overall point and love Sagan, but this is silly.
When you're 18, you know a lot more and are only interested in what is pertinent to your life going forward.  Why are (and this may be what Sagan is talking about here, but maybe not) 150 seniors taking calculus when only 2-3 are going to be using it in their everyday lives?  
Questions like "why is the sky blue?" may stump many 12 graders, but it's because the answer isn't a simple one (or more precisely it isn't about the ocean) and the real reason is nerdy to explain.
Why can't 12-graders find x-country on a map?  Because it isn't pertinent to their lives.
Learning dates about wars or ratifications or declarations just get jumbled up in their heads after learning it for a test (ST-memory) vs learning to know it (LT-memory).
Standardized testing has retarded the education system.
Multiple-choice testing has retarded our students.
.
Everyone is for education, but no one is willing to do something major for the students.  And now it's just caveman politics with one side wanting everyone to have equity and the other side wanting segregation.  
It's all broken.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2023, 07:08:46 AM
I had the exact same experience in grad school.  My first year, we taught freshmen, they were mostly motivated and curious.  Then we moved up to sophs and then to a senior lab course.  The main interest then was "Is this going to be on the test?".  "We" had beat any enthusiasm for learning out of them for a base practical existence, they needed to make an "A" to get in med shcool was the case for many of them.  They didn't need to learn anything.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2023, 11:26:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Ey0m7RX.png)

Said to be Atlanta, June, 1933.  Pretty heavy traffic for a depression era scene, a lot of pedestrians out, billboard for "ice refrigeration", some store called "Sauls".  The street appears to be one way.  Men back then tended to wear coat and tie and hats when out and about, some in the back just have a white shirt on.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2023, 11:39:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/6cN4bR6.png)

Getting the stuff to do it yourself got a lot easier on this day in 1979 when the first two Home Depots opened.
Bernie Marcus and Arthur Blank started a chain of large home improvement warehouses that would stock more products, often at lower prices than any competitor or hardware store. Employees knew what was in stock, where to find it, and how to use it all.
Having lost their jobs with California‘s Handy Dan stores a year earlier, Marcus and Blank enlisted investment banker Ken Langone and merchandiser Pat Farrah to raise the needed funds. A nationwide search for the right location ended in Atlanta.
The first two Home Depots opened in former Treasure Island stores, cavernous warehouses stocked with up to 50,000 products. Those first stores have grown to more than 2,200.
The home improvement store that revolutionized the industry first opened its doors in Atlanta on June 22, 1979, Today in Georgia History.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 24, 2023, 01:53:16 PM
Employees knew what was in stock, where to find it, and how to use it all.

Wait, we're talking about Home Depot?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2023, 02:17:46 PM
Wait, we're talking about Home Depot?
At our store we have a bunch of older guys who worked in the trades, so they actually do know their stuff. When we first moved here I found a lot of things that were built differently than what I always knew. Those old guys came in very handy.

But that's changing as clearly not nearly enough kids are entering the trades.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2023, 02:41:35 PM
My daughter worked at Home Depot for a few months, she learned a LOT of stuff, basic electrical, dry walling, etc.  She's now quite handy.  She liked working there, then she got a "real job" as it were.  She's doing handsomely now.

Maybe instead of trade school we could sentence young folks to work at HD/Loews for a summer.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 24, 2023, 03:34:17 PM
I did spend a few weeks one summer in college working Ace Hardware by day and loading UPS trucks at night, until I got an internship lined up. 

At Ace, it was split between old retired guys and young deadbeats. I hung out with the old guys. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2023, 03:37:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/KMGUL4E.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2023, 09:39:56 PM
When football was played by men...

At Municipal, Otto Graham races along the sideline wearing a pair of Keds while his blocker rakes the eyes of his pursuer


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/355081699_6416740731746928_1876473094384088189_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=Ywuk2y2qrXEAX-M-AKH&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCN_V9544-bDD7fc7gcJHy5V0EY3egM-Qhw1O--7valAA&oe=649D5E28)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2023, 09:52:28 PM
One of the Greatest venues EVER saw over a hundred games there. Joe Turkey Jones almost break Bradshaw's neck. Lenny Barker's perfect Game. Browns beat the Cowboys on Monday Nite in '79,Squeelers beat them later the same season for the Super Bowl. One brother home on leave saw the 1st Monday Night Football Game in '70  Browns dumping defending NFL Champion Joe Willie Namath's Jets. Another brother was at the 10 Cent Beerr Nite Brawl with the Rangers - Good Times
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2023, 10:21:31 PM
One of the Greatest venues EVER saw over a hundred games there. Joe Turkey Jones almost break Bradshaw's neck. Lenny Barker's perfect Game. Browns beat the Cowboys on Monday Nite in '79,Squeelers beat them later the same season for the Super Bowl. One brother home on leave saw the 1st Monday Night Football Game in '70  Browns dumping defending NFL Champion Joe Willie Namath's Jets. Another brother was at the 10 Cent Beerr Nite Brawl with the Rangers - Good Times
loved it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2023, 06:13:21 AM
The Georgia General Assembly chartered the Western & Atlantic Railroad by a vote in 1836. Known as “The State Road,” the W&A was owned and operated by the state. They selected Colonel Stephen H. Long to survey the route the railroad would take. Construction began in March 1838. The 137-mile-long railroad connected Terminus, Georgia (later renamed Marthasville, then Atlanta), with Chattanooga and the Tennessee River. It took 13 years to construct the W&A, costing four million dollars. The tunnel construction through Chetoogeta Mountain was the final piece of construction in completing the rail line.




(https://i.imgur.com/Dy6kkHM.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2023, 06:27:06 AM
Those railroad lines still exist (mostly) under downtown.  Parts of them are exposed, for now, near MB stadium in  an area called "The Gulch" but are about to be covered up.

In city history, the lines were considered a major nuisance, which is odd considered the city only exists because of them.  The terrain is such that the first line could be managed to the north (Chattanooga) with some effort, and then east-west lines were built in hilly terrain, then a line to the northeast also in hills.  There were some lines built up to the mountains to the north but not through them as they get rather large.

Lewis Grizzard once said Atlanta was a city completely surrounded by an airport.  A second airport had been suggested ca. 1970 but of course never happened.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2023, 07:12:07 AM
If I could go back to 1920, instead of becoming the richest man in the world, I'd probably get locked up.

I try to give Lowe's a chance, but they never seem to be useful, so it's Home Depot by default.

Would you guys make the trade-off to have single-platoon football again, sacrificing the better quality of play with 2-platoon?  I don't know why, but having the same 11 guys (plus backups) have to be decent on both sides of the ball is appealing.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2023, 07:15:26 AM
Tom Brady was the best QB ever, but I think he'd obviously be a net negative at safety or LB. 
Come to think of it, if football remained 1-platoon, it would have hastened the athletic (largely black) QB becoming the norm.  Not necessarily with Warren Moon, but Randall Cunningham (plus he punted!) and maybe a Rodney Peete would have been serviceable on D.  McNair, Culpepper.....idk, imagine Montana or Marino trying to play defense, even f they grew up doing it.  Once you get to Vick, he'd be a plus on both sides of the ball (I assume).

It would have been interesting.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2023, 08:03:47 AM
well, no one wants to see the QB injured on defense or special teams, so more than 16 or 17 on the roster is a must

having an athletic QB and/or players at any position is a plus

traveling roster of 70 or 74 is maybe too many

if the roster size was 40, perhaps you'd see more players going two ways




























Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2023, 08:04:06 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

In 1916, there was a proposed Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that would put all acts of war to a national vote. Anyone voting "yes" would have to register as a volunteer for service in the army. Provided by Huffington Post
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2023, 08:09:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Custer Dies at the Battle of the Little Bighorn (1876)
Popularly known as "Custer's Last Stand," the Battle of the Little Bighorn occurred during the US government's campaign to force the Cheyenne and Sioux onto reservations using federal troops. Upon encountering a large encampment of the tribes, General George Custer launched an early attack with a party of approximately 200 soldiers. The troops were annihilated by the vastly larger force, and Custer himself was killed during the battle along with two of his brothers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2023, 08:24:26 AM
For the 1964 season, rule changes allowed schools to return to two platoon football. When Coach Bob Devaney broke out his offensive and defensive squads, he wanted a way to tell them apart.  As the legend goes, assistant coach Mike Corgan was sent out to a local sporting goods store to get some new practice jerseys.  The store owner had some black jerseys that weren’t selling.  He cut Corgan a deal and the new jerseys were issued to the first string defenders.

Mike Kennedy was one of the very first Blackshirts, starting the first game after the practice jerseys debuted.  He went on to earn All-Big 8 honors as a linebacker the following year.


#69

(https://www.huskermax.com/games/1965/team_right_final.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2023, 07:16:02 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Pied Piper Abducts the Children of Hamelin (1284)
According to a centuries-old legend set in Hamelin, Germany, the Pied Piper was hired by local residents in 1284 to rid the town of rats, which he did by charming them with music and leading them to the river to drown. When the citizens refused to pay him the agreed upon price, he exacted his revenge by charming away their children. Famous versions of the legend were immortalized by Goethe, Robert Browning, and the Brothers Grimm.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 26, 2023, 11:12:14 AM
Tom Brady was the best QB ever, but I think he'd obviously be a net negative at safety or LB. 
Come to think of it, if football remained 1-platoon, it would have hastened the athletic (largely black) QB becoming the norm.  Not necessarily with Warren Moon, but Randall Cunningham (plus he punted!) and maybe a Rodney Peete would have been serviceable on D.  McNair, Culpepper.....idk, imagine Montana or Marino trying to play defense, even f they grew up doing it.  Once you get to Vick, he'd be a plus on both sides of the ball (I assume).

It would have been interesting.
A couple of thoughts:
First, there has been a massive revolution in the athletic quality of big-time college football players. Back in 1964 I would guess that you'd be able to find random non-athlete guys on campus who could compete reasonably well with the football players. Today that is not the case AT ALL.

Specialization starts at a VERY young age and the workout programs are extreme.

The position most impacted by the above is obviously QB. The rest all have rough Offensive/Defensive equivalents:
The biggest problem with the above is that the numbers don't quite work out but you could make it work, for example, by having your biggest linebacker play O-line and your biggest DB play linebacker or some such.

QB's are a different thing altogether. Brains, accuracy, and arm strength are the chief requirements for the position with athletic ability completely secondary in most cases.

I have no idea where a Brady/Montana/Marino would fit on an NFL defense. It seems like they'd be more likely to get in the way than to contribute meaningfully.

I think the suggestion above that you would see a lot more athletic QB's and option-type offenses is correct.

I think you'd HAVE to have an athletic QB because wasting 1/11 of your D would be too big of a liability. But that would mean that QB quality would decline so you would see teams run more and throw less.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2023, 10:06:00 PM
The cat paw shot gun

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354627638_647567144068303_2125517979917909906_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=U2VKB39s_KAAX8Vn375&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBrYZ8PdVipNX8DAB1BcFspbbQZkm2wdA9qPquvTrqvoA&oe=649FAD81)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 07:10:02 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Latter-Day Saints Founder Joseph Smith Murdered (1844)
Smith was the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints. He established his first church in New York but was forced to move his headquarters to Ohio, Missouri, and then Illinois. In 1844, he announced his candidacy for the presidency of the US, but he was imprisoned for treason after his efforts to silence Mormon dissenters led to mob violence. While in jail, Smith and his brother were murdered by a mob.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2023, 09:34:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SIJP2HS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 09:46:42 AM
the babe had a large head
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 27, 2023, 12:17:13 PM
27 Jun 1941

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 12:52:53 PM
One of the original State of Ohio maps.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/355669556_253071707346221_3296567614517535087_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=3JeurhKBlbIAX_HHUue&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBeOk4AaiynqDQlfv2TR_-ZX9QxfbAoRFA-6_mSZc1kMQ&oe=64A060AA)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2023, 01:21:27 PM
All Guts, No Glory for the Escort Carriers | Air & Space Magazine| Smithsonian Magazine (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/all-guts-no-glory-6028074/)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 27, 2023, 02:12:05 PM
All Guts, No Glory for the Escort Carriers | Air & Space Magazine| Smithsonian Magazine (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/all-guts-no-glory-6028074/)
The gallows humor of those guys always amazes me. In that article one of the Escort Carrier crewmen stated that their CVE moniker stood for Combustible, Vulnerable, and Expendable. 

I used to work with a WWII Vet who drove an LST. LST stood for Landing Ship Tank and they were so named because they delivered tanks to the beach. He said, however, that it "really" stood for Large Stationary Target.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2023, 02:33:02 PM
The First Chinese Restaurant in America Has a Savory—and Unsavory—History | Arts & Culture| Smithsonian Magazine
The First Chinese Restaurant in America Has a Savory—and Unsavory—History | Arts & Culture| Smithsonian Magazine (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/history-first-chinese-restaurant-in-america-180980552/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_term=6272023&utm_content=archival&fbclid=IwAR1xLQ6Stae-ojgfZNA0ZJWSE-Wm_yxdVPgFq2-rYLZd3xfJ7ZA-ZBn9w8U)

The oldest continuously operated Chinese restaurant in America is not in San Francisco or New York, but in Butte, Montana, where 47-year-old Jerry Tam, the great-great-grandson of the original owner, presides over the Pekin Noodle Parlor (https://www.facebook.com/pekinnoodleparlor/). Standing on South Main Street outside the weathered two-story brick building, with its display window of antique Chinese cooking equipment, Tam describes the Pekin as a “walk back in time”—one that illuminates the often-overlooked history of the Chinese population in Montana.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2023, 03:53:45 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/V06B4wK.png)

Some unknown dude and some plane...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 04:06:54 PM
Some weird dude and some weird plane...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 08:49:36 PM
Two sisters, Florence and Susie Friermuth arrested for moonshining during the Prohibition, 1921.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/353668500_663349799171942_5175311779884116539_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ZLZlR-9BhVoAX8VWHCb&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCa4-Gc_9e_p3zKAn-PjF_S5Zy7wihOpXU_obNLq8Igkw&oe=649FC6B3)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 08:58:57 PM
Framed by the Chief War Eagle Monument, A KC-135 tanker flown by the 185th Air Refueling Wing of the Iowa Air National Guard flies in a refueling formation with an F-16 fighter from Sioux Falls' 114th Fighter Wing Tuesday morning. The flight was flown to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the first air refueling. 185th Air Refueling Wing

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/356848094_669529045187893_4617547302124298151_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=AHkhI37s08oAX-B-rB8&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDbfR7Omb-ETuPtdfvWX0b3mhFmNH4Yrykmdee3La1Rrw&oe=649FF987)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 28, 2023, 04:51:20 AM
28 Jun 1914
28 Jun 1919

France

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 28, 2023, 07:42:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/RhUimMS.png)

From 1959, I-85 in Atlanta, I got a kick out of the exit sign.  Same view today:

(https://i.imgur.com/mtyOigA.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 28, 2023, 07:54:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand Assassinated (1914)
Nephew of Francis Joseph, emperor of Austria and king of Hungary, Ferdinand became heir apparent in 1896. While visiting Sarajevo, he and his wife were assassinated by Serbian nationalist Gavrilo Princip. Austria soon declared war on Serbia, prompting countries allied with Austria-Hungary—the Central Powers—and those allied with Serbia—the Triple Entente—to declare war on each other, precipitating WWI. The assassination was not the first attempt on his life.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 28, 2023, 07:57:41 AM
"The Guns of August", highly recommended book.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 28, 2023, 08:24:01 AM
The Battle of Hobkirk Hill (or Hobkirk’s Hill), sometimes referred to as the Second Battle of Camden, remains one of the less prominent engagements of the Revolutionary War, even as John Buchanan’s masterful study of the campaign in the Deep South terms it “a major and controversial battle” in the American effort to reclaim South Carolina and Georgia from British control.[1] It was fought in the backcountry of South Carolina, just north of the village of Camden, on April 25, 1781, near the site of the first Battle of Camden fought on August 16, 1780. The latter proved to be a humiliating debacle for the insurgent forces in their conflict with Great Britain and especially embarrassing for a disgraced Maj. Gen. Horatio Gates, who with the militia fled 180 miles northward to Hillsborough, North Carolina, where he waited for the Continental regulars he had abandoned to show up. On December 3, Gates yielded command of the Southern Department of the Continental Army to thirty-eight-year-old Maj. Gen. Nathanael Greene, the fifth major general to occupy that position—after Charles Lee, Robert Howe, Benjamin Lincoln, and Gates.

https://allthingsliberty.com/2023/06/hobkirk-hill-a-major-minor-battle/ (https://allthingsliberty.com/2023/06/hobkirk-hill-a-major-minor-battle/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 10:45:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9sAbrQH.png)

This building is still there, but not for long.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2023, 11:51:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Einstein Introduces Special Relativity (1905)
In physics, the theory of special relativity generalizes Galileo's principle of relativity—that all uniform motion is relative and that there is no absolute state of rest. Though physicists Hendrik Lorentz and Henri Poincaré had made contributions to the theory already, Einstein provided a radically new interpretation in his 1905 paper "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies." In it, Einstein redefines the concepts of space and time and abolishes the concept of "aether,"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 30, 2023, 12:34:36 PM
"The Guns of August", highly recommended book.
Agreed, great book!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2023, 01:16:00 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (1968)
The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons is an international agreement to limit the spread of nuclear weapons. It was originally signed by the US, Britain, the USSR, and 59 other countries in 1968. The major signatories agreed not to help nonnuclear states obtain or produce nuclear weapons, while the nonnuclear signatories agreed not to try to obtain them. The treaty was extended indefinitely in 1995, and nearly 190 countries are now party to it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2023, 06:03:05 AM
1909 ...

(https://i.imgur.com/ZOswaOy.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 01, 2023, 07:14:30 AM
1995 - DJ Wolfman Jack

DJ Wolfman Jack died of a heart attack. He was the master of ceremonies for the rock 'n' roll generation of the '60s on radio, and later on television during the '70s.

1979 - The Sony Walkman

Sony introduced the Walkman, the first portable audio cassette player. Over the next 30 years they sold over 385 million Walkmans in cassette, CD, mini-disc and digital file versions, and were the market leaders until the arrival of Apple's iPod and other new digital devices.

Germany

British Western Pacific Territories

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2023, 09:59:54 PM
The Livermore Centennial Light Bulb, at Firestation #6, Livermore, California, USA, has been burning since its installation in 1901. By 2010, the hand-blown bulb has operated at about 4 watts and has remained 24 hours a day to provide night illumination of the fire engines. There was only one break in its operation when it was removed from one fire station and fitted.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 04, 2023, 08:06:21 AM
There were no fireworks on July 4, 1776. However, the first Fourth of July fireworks began in 1777 as they lit Philadelphia's night sky. The Pennsylvania Evening Post wrote this of the celebration: "The evening was closed with the ring of bells, and at night there was a grand exhibition of fireworks (which began and concluded with thirteen rockets) on the Commons, and the city was beautifully illuminated."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 04, 2023, 10:04:57 AM
Happy Independence Day you treasonous Bastards - celebrate the 4th with a Fifth

(https://i.imgur.com/Mo2RSN8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 04, 2023, 09:40:56 PM


On this day in Sioux City history: Sioux City’s first professional baseball team, the Sioux City Cornhuskers, had their first game in Des Moines on July 4, 1888. Dubbed in the papers as “the Corn Huskers from the Corn Palace City,” the Cornhuskers were part of the Class A Western League, playing one level below the majors. The team played their home games at Evans Driving Park near modern-day Crescent Park. The Sioux City team lost both rounds of the double-header but still made an impressive showing. They would go on to win two Western League Pennants (1891 and 1894) before the franchise was sold and moved to St. Paul, MN. Later the team moved to Chicago’s south side where they became the Chicago White Stockings, renamed the Chicago White Sox in 1904. These photos are from 1891.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/356685929_654936443320111_4858672054190311843_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=YImDOG5VHcgAX_L62Hj&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfABNfxRZXXnwSmKue3Ys2mS5V7A6NXppc-EaduBy48D5A&oe=64A92D80)

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/357028304_654936526653436_3223652017617383062_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Ml-vMdp5gvUAX9mn3RV&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBxHS9xkp-c9BvTy6gw2NoSReaBVa2g3BRRF-jdcZTocg&oe=64A954CA)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2023, 08:12:50 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

SPAM Introduced into the Market (1937)
Introduced in 1937 by the Hormel Foods Corporation as "Hormel Spiced Ham," the precooked, canned-meat product was renamed "SPAM" when it began to lose market share. SPAM is now popular worldwide and is sold in more than 40 countries, including South Korea, where it is said to be so popular that it is sometimes given as a gift. The product has become a part of pop culture as the butt of many jokes and urban legends about mystery meat.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 05, 2023, 11:38:41 AM


(https://i.imgur.com/rwYUEsf.jpg)

Roster doesn't look to deep - must have been a lot of multi tasking going on
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2023, 12:02:38 PM
pitchers had to hit and play the field back then
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2023, 08:25:36 AM
Until 1948, 7-Up contained "lithium citrate," a mood stabilizer used to treat bipolar disorder.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 06, 2023, 11:42:45 AM
Damn didn't Coca~Cola have traces of well you know?Damn gubermit trying to manipulate the masses
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2023, 11:34:52 AM
Leroy Robert "Satchel" Paige was born  on July 7, 1906, in Mobile, Alabama. Though many speculate it may have been more like 1903.
According to Paige, his mother sent him to earn money carrying luggage for businessmen at the train station, but he was frustrated with the little money it paid. So he rigged a pole to carry several bags at once to make the job pay better, and his co-workers purportedly told him, "You look like a walking satchel tree." And his nickname stuck.
At the age of 42 in 1948, Paige was the oldest major league rookie while playing for the Cleveland Indians. He played with the St. Louis Browns until age 47, and represented them in the All-Star Game in 1952 and 1953. He was the first player who had played in the Negro leagues to pitch in the World Series, in 1948, and was the first electee of the Negro League Committee to be inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame in 1971.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2023, 04:20:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZqP9bMt.png)

The $3 billion cost of design and production (equivalent to $49 billion today), far exceeding the $1.9 billion cost of the Manhattan Project, made the B-29 program the most expensive of the war.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2023, 04:35:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZlksUxy.png)

The Northeast Expressway at Piedmont Road in October 1958.

This is pretty near me today.  I hadn't realized it had no median back then.  Some of the concrete in the exit ramps still exists.  This section of ancient freeway was preserved while the new I-85 was built parallel to it.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2023, 08:58:22 PM
The $3 billion cost of design and production (equivalent to $49 billion today), far exceeding the $1.9 billion cost of the Manhattan Project, made the B-29 program the most expensive of the war.
It took both of course to vaporize Hiroshima and Nagasaki and neither the Germans nor the Japanese had the resources to do either. Modern industrial warfare is ultimately all about economics. You either have the resources or you don't.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 09, 2023, 11:17:05 PM
During the 1925 World Series between the Pittsburgh #Pirates and the Washington Senators, the grounds crew needed to quickly dry the infield before game 7 as it had rained heavily that morning. This was how they “dried” the infield.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/357750785_652475963583894_378939260234041061_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=GBDJ-yD16esAX_GwGJi&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDRREb7akBfzARQm5kGZxgleiNzNKsEAYZfko6B69x1Zw&oe=64B005E2)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 09, 2023, 11:25:20 PM


On this day in Sioux City history: Nearly 50,000 people attended the Mini-Indy race on July 4, 1914. The “Fourth of July Classic” was a 300-mile race with many of the greatest names in the sport. The winner was Eddie Rickenbacher, a somewhat unknown driver. Read the full story at SiouxCityMuseum.org/history-website/sioux-city-mini-indy. #siouxcityhistory


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/357438403_656757846471304_8446854212999269536_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=LHzm5HkPhJEAX8hW-Tj&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfA_eTPyvtprlgUNv4tp1NdFKjpTx90Z3KAsnSYBdoypLQ&oe=64B0589B)

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/357392679_656757856471303_7351151783943334235_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=qYuueOoOxikAX_8zcWY&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCf4Z8NDRlGRHNxd4apRwnIbX6CU-wadWBDUXyjDFpv4A&oe=64AF8D8A)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on July 10, 2023, 07:37:34 AM
Interesting.  After racing he went on to be the most decorated US fighter pilot ace in WWI with 26 shootdowns and a Medal of Honor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2023, 08:19:31 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/q8VViqU.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2023, 08:52:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZlksUxy.png)

The Northeast Expressway at Piedmont Road in October 1958.

This is pretty near me today.  I hadn't realized it had no median back then.  Some of the concrete in the exit ramps still exists.  This section of ancient freeway was preserved while the new I-85 was built parallel to it. 
(https://i.imgur.com/IX1KldW.png)

This shot is looking southbound with the construction of the new freeqay just starting to right.  This is where a portion of the new freeway collapsed a few years back due to a fire under it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2023, 09:03:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Jedwabne Pogrom (1941)
Just a month after Nazi forces overran Poland and began distributing anti-Semitic propaganda there, the non-Jewish residents of the Polish town of Jedwabne took it upon themselves to round up and massacre Jews living in the area, burning hundreds alive. The fact that the Jedwabne Pogrom was not a German death squad operation but was actually "committed directly by Poles" was only recently established by the Polish Institute of National Remembrance.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2023, 09:33:42 AM
“Thanks to my fortunate idea of introducing the relativity principle into physics, you now enormously overrate my scientific abilities, to the point where this makes me quite uncomfortable.”

― Albert Einstein


I think Albert was the first really famous scientists (outside scientific circles).  He was a global phenom.  The break came when the position of a star that appeared near the Sun during an eclipse was displaced just as his theory of General Relativity had predicted (it also resolved a problem with the apparent orbit of Mercury).  That got publicized and zoom ...

Then the myths sprung up of course.  But by any metric, he was/is one of the greatest.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2023, 11:09:01 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/c4ypjYi.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2023, 11:30:13 AM
Kirby may have walked into a better situation than Saban or Dabo
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2023, 08:25:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Oka Crisis (1990)
This 1990 confrontation between the Mohawk nation and the town of Oka, Quebec, was the first of several violent conflicts between the First Nations and the Canadian government. It began when developers tried to turn a plot of land into a golf course. Because that land contained a burial ground and sacred pine grove, members of the Mohawk community blockaded the area. Canadian troops were sent in, and a 78-day standoff ensued, ending with the Mohawks' surrender.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 11, 2023, 09:18:05 AM
Kirby may have walked into a better situation than Saban or Dabo
I think you are right.
Georgia's history is about even with Clemson's pre-Dabo. Georgia obviously doesn't have Bama's history but Georgia in general and the Atlanta area specifically have grown incredibly rapidly.

When my dad visited family in Atlanta in the 1940's, Atlanta's population was barely more than Akron's and Georgia’s population of 3.1M was less than half of Ohio's population of 6.9M.

More relevant to the comparison you made, here are the populations of Georgia, South Carolina, and Alabama over time.
2020:
1990:
1960:
1930:

When Alabama was building their brand their state had a population larger than South Carolina and comparable to Georgia. Today Alabama's population is smaller than South Carolina and Georgia’s population is more than AL and SC combined.


That population ultimately contributes to HS talent and also fanbase size.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2023, 09:59:40 AM
my thought was Mark Richt's last 5 seasons or so were better than the previous few seasons at Clemson or Bama

maybe had better culture and players in the system
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2023, 10:07:03 AM
UGA is somewhat comparable to Ohio State in that it is the major program in a large state with a LOT of HS football emphasis.  When I was in HS here, football was big, but poorly resourced, and schools now with major programs were even more underfunded because they were out in the boonies.  Yes, it's a good HC job if you work hard and can handle the stress and media and expectations etc.

The striking thing now, to me, is how many players are coming from outside the state and region ...  I guess I can understand why.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 11, 2023, 10:10:40 AM
my thought was Mark Richt's last 5 seasons or so were better than the previous few seasons at Clemson or Bama

maybe had better culture and players in the system
Agreed.

Honestly, at the time I thought Georgia’s decision to fire Richt was incorrect. In retrospect I was obviously wrong. Smart has built a machine there. That said, Richt had already built them up to the point that Smart didn't have all that far to go.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2023, 10:15:27 AM
The impression was Richt was too soft, folks wanted a hard nose.  And of course the impression was that Richt would continue having 10-3 and 11-2 kinds of seasons.

I read that when Smart arrived, he insisted on making major infrastructure improvements, like the indoor practice field and weight room and locker room etc.  Richt may have been more content with what existed.  Nice guys finish second...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2023, 06:07:33 PM
Historical Images

Norman Rockwell and the model for Rosie the Riveter, his neighbor and a telephone operator, Mary Doyle Keefe around (1950)


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/358535295_233055333012578_2524079650086466588_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=rsz0DRsceooAX9TGBFp&_nc_oc=AQn469V7bSOP4_FtIaL7igQVMT_w1qxlnS5behoSlRj_nIimWNCjMpHtDV3OnaKs_es&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBI9N8e4eaiErPCgeoIZa8CGmFwuVUz9mMLeXWiWXh-Jw&oe=64B2BA9B)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 11, 2023, 06:15:56 PM
Agreed.

Honestly, at the time I thought Georgia’s decision to fire Richt was incorrect. In retrospect I was obviously wrong. Smart has built a machine there. That said, Richt had already built them up to the point that Smart didn't have all that far to go.
Reminded me of the Buccaneers letting go of Dungy and bringing in Gruden.  Risky, but worked out for them, too.
But it could always be a Solich-to-Callahan outcome.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2023, 07:07:37 PM
or Pelini to Riley
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 11, 2023, 07:17:49 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/EOeSI02.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 06:10:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Alexander Hamilton Dies from Wound Sustained in Duel (1804)
In the presidential election of 1800, a tie between Thomas Jefferson and his running mate, Aaron Burr, left the choice of chief executive to the House of Representatives. Hamilton's influence made Jefferson President and Burr Vice President. In 1804, Hamilton again thwarted Burr in his bid for governorship of New York, and Burr challenged him to a duel. The two men met on July 11, and Hamilton was mortally wounded and died the next day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 06:17:06 AM
In 1957, Dwight D. Eisenhower became the first sitting president to ride in a helicopter. He traveled in a Bell Ranger as part of a nationwide civil defense exercise. The presidential helicopter has always been called Marine One.

In this June 14, 1957, file photo, the UH-13 Bell Ranger presidential helicopter undergoes a series of practice landings on the White House lawn to familiarize Air Force pilots, Maj. Joseph E. Barrett and Capt. Laurence R. Cummings, with the flight path and landing marks. On July 12, President Eisenhower became the first sitting president to fly in a helicopter.

(https://cdnph.upi.com/svc/sv/upi_com/1101499727838/2017/1/e75f53d3bc975e0b5ff0a829dbbf3b75/On-This-Day-Eisenhower-becomes-first-president-to-ride-in-helicopter.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 06:44:24 AM
Air Force pilots?????
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2023, 08:07:30 AM
Were you expecting Sub Captains?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 08:52:59 AM
I don't write it.
Just copy & paste
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 08:53:07 AM
Installed in 1410, the world's oldest astronomical clock still in operation is in Prague.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 09:10:05 AM
There was a split back when, the Air Force got fixed wing and the Army got rotary.  I figure "Marine One" would be piloted by, well, Marines, but maybe the Corps didn't operate rotary back then.  Marines of course now do both, and pilot Marine One.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 09:35:21 AM
high school classmate of mine was assigned to Marine One a decade or so ago
kind of a big deal
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2023, 05:12:01 PM
high school classmate of mine was assigned to Marine One a decade or so ago
kind of a big deal
To give Obama a dutch rub?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 09:48:42 PM
History Nebraska
in 1861, the legend of "Wild Bill" Hickok supposedly began at Rock Creek Station in Jefferson County, Nebraska after the frontiersman killed David McCanles in a dispute.

https://history.nebraska.gov/weird-wednesday-wild-bill.../


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/358699157_662059592629831_210802519562105465_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=TiZDGwVepRsAX_9acSU&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBAm8h4P9yu3Xf6x8j_FBC1wGZzjuNGxWuV6-DSQuXpVQ&oe=64B4CBE6)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on July 13, 2023, 07:12:15 AM
Some of these Old West gun fighter characters would be quite at home nowadays in our big cities.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2023, 07:17:05 AM
Some of these Old West gun fighter characters would be quite at home nowadays in our big cities.
Most of what I read about are drive by shootings with 50 rounds fired and 3 people hit, or domestic or drug disputes inside, not really the kind WB would understand very well.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 13, 2023, 09:02:50 AM
Some of these Old West gun fighter characters would be quite at home nowadays in our big cities.
If some of these Old West gun fighters were in the big cities these days, there would be a lot less drive by shootings as those shooters would ultimately be sent to meet their maker. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2023, 09:05:53 AM
Somebody would drive by with a MAC10 and hose them down.

It's a very different kind of battle today of course.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2023, 09:08:56 AM
To give Obama a dutch rub?
probably Slick Willy and W
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2023, 02:06:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/9GnBQ0u.png)

Did you know that modern jet engines can have between 30,000 and 50,000 individual parts, including thousands of rotating and stationary components? The maintenance process can take up to 180 days and cost millions of dollars, but it's crucial to ensure these machines run safely and efficiently. Marvel at the complexity of jet engines!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2023, 09:14:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/RCeqUsv.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2023, 10:59:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/OivPKUk.png)

Left to Right for comparison
Massachusetts
Washington
Missouri
Yamato
Bismarck
Rodney
KGV
Hood


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2023, 09:28:33 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Test of a Nuclear Weapon (1945)
Called the Trinity test, the first test of a nuclear weapon was conducted by the US in New Mexico on what is now White Sands Missile Range. The detonation of the implosion-design plutonium bomb—the same type used on Nagasaki, Japan, a few weeks later—was equivalent to the explosion of approximately 20 kilotons of TNT, and is usually considered the beginning of the Atomic Age. It is said that the scientists who observed the detonation set up a betting pool on what the result would be.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2023, 10:43:57 PM
University of Nebraska-Lincoln
  ·
On this day in 1919, the Tractor Test Laboratory opened, helping assuage concerns that the equipment delivered was what the manufacturers promised. Today, nearly all tractors manufactured in the US are tested at the University of Nebraska–Lincoln facility. 📷: UNL Archives & Special Collections


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/360092309_662292752595333_4223497931290297803_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=9zxgp6YPeNcAX9xK-VN&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfB2vjc5FFVgitOz_seov5-_4aNOllQjGIAOOihuxkb7nQ&oe=64BA6911)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2023, 07:24:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/TnAWByS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2023, 07:59:29 AM
Today in History (15 July 1799), the Rosetta Stone was found by a French soldier named Pierre-François Bouchard during Napoleon's Egyptian campaign.
It was discovered in the town of Rashid (Rosetta) in the Nile Delta. The stone is a large slab of black granite, over 2,000 years old, that bears a trilingual inscription dated 197 BC inscribed in Hieroglyphic, Demotic and Greek text.
A major breakthrough in the decipherment of Egyptian hieroglyphs, the Rosetta Stone is on display at the British Museum in London.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 17, 2023, 07:59:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

RMS Carpathia Torpedoed by German Submarine (1918)
The RMS Carpathia was a Cunard Line transatlantic passenger steamship that first became famous for rescuing more than 700 survivors of the Titanic disaster in 1912. Six years later, during WWI, the Carpathia was travelling in a convoy when it was torpedoed off the east coast of Ireland by the German submarine U-55. Many of the passengers and crew members were rescued by the HMS Snowdrop the following day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on July 17, 2023, 08:24:25 AM
This day in history:

https://www.history.com/news/romanov-family-murder-execution-reasons (https://www.history.com/news/romanov-family-murder-execution-reasons)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2023, 08:45:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CGFUMZA.png)

In 1921, the great Ty Cobb, at age 34, gets Hit #3,000 off Red Sox Elmer Myers in Game #2,135.  Ty was 2 yrs younger than the next youngest, Hank Aaron (36/2,460) & Robin Yount (36/2,705), to reach that feat.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2023, 08:46:40 AM
It's interesting, to me, how certain numbers get one qualified for the HoF almost automatically (barring roids), 3,000, 300, 500, probably a few others.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 17, 2023, 08:55:17 AM
baseball, as you know, is and has been a numbers game since inception

stats
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2023, 01:12:38 PM
Aogashima Island, Japan.

Aogashima is an active volcano located about 220 miles south of Tokyo in the Pacific Ocean. The island has a population of about 170 people who are living inside the bigger volcano's crater, making it the smallest village in all of Japan. The volcano erupted last time in 1785, killing half of the island's population.



(https://i.imgur.com/6aqUPIT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2023, 01:24:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5qjniob.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 17, 2023, 01:27:22 PM
Aogashima Island, Japan.

Aogashima is an active volcano located about 220 miles south of Tokyo in the Pacific Ocean. The island has a population of about 170 people who are living inside the bigger volcano's crater, making it the smallest village in all of Japan. The volcano erupted last time in 1785, killing half of the island's population.



(https://i.imgur.com/6aqUPIT.png)

That's almost up there with getting involved in a land war in Asia, going in against a Sicilian when death is on the line, or building a giant metropolis in the desert US Southwest. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2023, 07:09:10 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre (1984)
The deadliest shooting spree in US history at the time, the San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre took place at a McDonald's restaurant in San Diego, California, and resulted in 21 deaths and 19 injuries. It was carried out by James Oliver Huberty, who had moved to the area just six months earlier and recently lost his job. The 77-minute massacre ended when Huberty was fatally shot by a sniper. Later that year, McDonald's razed the building where the killings had occurred.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2023, 08:47:35 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/321343043_713198583543027_1725626929462009782_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=7uPomHV2sRAAX8aN84X&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBPY3QXDHjAk3RlUPUlk8V1lTJqtc0b-y2SOl-2SbMCWA&oe=64BBB42B)

The "Universe 25" experiment is one of the most terrifying experiments in the history of science, which, through the behavior of a colony of mice, is an attempt by scientists to explain human societies. The idea of "Universe 25" Came from the American scientist John Calhoun, who created an "ideal world" in which hundreds of mice would live and reproduce. More specifically, Calhoun built the so-called "Paradise of Mice", a specially designed space where rodents had Abundance of food and water, as well as a large living space. In the beginning, he placed four pairs of mice that in a short time began to reproduce, resulting in their population growing rapidly. However, after 315 days their reproduction began to decrease significantly. When the number of rodents reached 600, a hierarchy was formed between them and then the so-called "wretches" appeared. The larger rodents began to attack the group, with the result that many males begin to "collapse" psychologically. As a result, the females did not protect themselves and in turn became aggressive towards their young. As time went on, the females showed more and more aggressive behavior, isolation elements and lack of reproductive mood. There was a low birth rate and, at the same time, an increase in mortality in younger rodents. Then, a new class of male rodents appeared, the so-called "beautiful mice". They refused to mate with the females or to "fight" for their space. All they cared about was food and sleep. At one point, "beautiful males" and "isolated females" made up the majority of the population.
According to Calhoun, the death phase consisted of two stages: the "first death" and "second death." The former was characterized by the loss of purpose in life beyond mere existence — no desire to mate, raise young or establish a role within society. As time went on, juvenile mortality reached 100% and reproduction reached zero. Among the endangered mice, homosexuality was observed and, at the same time, cannibalism increased, despite the fact that there was plenty of food. Two years after the start of the experiment, the last baby of the colony was born. By 1973, he had killed the last mouse in the Universe 25. John Calhoun repeated the same experiment 25 more times, and each time the result was the same.
Calhoun's scientific work has been used as a model for interpreting social collapse, and his research serves as a focal point for the study of urban sociology.
We are currently witnessing direct parallels in today’s society..weak, feminized men with little to no skills and no protection instincts, and overly agitated and aggressive females with no maternal instincts.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/321249973_929922411255432_6121395710441058976_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=qy1Rkbsa9zQAX_7PCgq&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCkXc74UTEP1kkbIBoVHOO1kkpDz6-UIPZSniqv2A7b6Q&oe=64BB2F2B)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 08:32:07 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Samuel Colt (1814)
Colt patented his revolving-breech pistol in 1836, but the six-shooter was slow to gain acceptance, and his company failed in 1842. However, a US government order for 1,000 pistols during the Mexican War allowed Colt to resume its manufacture in 1847. Colt advanced the development of interchangeable parts and the assembly line, and his revolvers, including the famous Colt .45, became so popular that the word "Colt" was sometimes used as a generic term for any revolver.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 08:33:13 AM
... or malt liquor ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 08:38:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of Peachtree Creek (1864)
In the spring of 1864 during the American Civil War, Union General William T. Sherman began preparing his troops for their first major attack on the defenses of Atlanta, Georgia. Just days after taking command of a Confederate army in that area, General John Bell Hood unsuccessfully attacked Sherman's troops as they crossed the nearby Peachtree Creek. Most historians consider the attack a grave error, as the Union troops routed Hood's army.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 10:25:34 AM
We have a bunch of historical markers around us dealing with this brigade or that moved by here on this date.  The creek is north of us a few miles and Hood's idea was to catch the Union army partly across it, but getting troops in place in the heat and with the heavily wooded areas was not possible.  So the attack was piecemeal and Sherman pretty much expected it.  This was followed by the main part of the Battle of Atlanta a bit south of us, shown in the Cyclorama, which is interesting to see.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 20, 2023, 10:28:37 AM
On July 20, 1944, Adolf Hitler and senior Nazi military officers met at the Wolf’s Lair in Rastenburg, Eastern Prussia. As the Nazi military leaders took their seats to discuss troop movements on the Eastern Front, an explosion ripped through the humid conference room — and, through the thick black smoke, Hitler’s body was seen strewn across the table. The Führer was dead, and Europe was potentially freed from the Nazi scourge. Or so it initially seemed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 12:34:16 PM

Friday July 20 will mark the 50th anniversary of a "giant step for mankind." On-board the historic Apollo 11 space capsule, was a slice of Nebraska innovation that few people know about.

"This was a kidding term that we really never publicized to call it 'Nebraska Space Bread,'" said retired University of Nebraska Food Science and Technology professor Ted Hartung.


Yes, bread in space. It was something that had never been done before. Old NASA archive film footage shows astronaut Buzz Aldrin putting jam on a slice inside the command module.

It was a handful of researchers including Hartung who made it possible.

"Yeah, basically the end of '68 was really the initial talk about could this be used," Hartung said.

Hartung had just named head of the new Food Science and Technology Department when he was contacted by NASA.

The space program wanted something other than freeze dried meals or food in a tube for its astronauts.

"The idea of getting something more, quote, like home-like with the possibility of bread being developed," Hartung said.

NASA had heard about the research done by UN-L professor Burt Maxcy irradiating meat to extend its shelf life.

NASA also knew, that, thanks to U.S. Sen. Carl Curtis, the university had a Navy Cobalt 60 irradiator.

"We could see food safety, and shelf life applications of irradiation. So that excited us to join NASA," Hartung said.

And join the race to space.

Bread was shipped in daily. The team, which included Maxcy, Hartung and Lloyd Bullerman, put the bread into plastic bags supplied by NASA. It was irradiated and then sent to Houston.

"Everything happened so very fast. And that was on the must-do list. To get that set up and going," Hartung said.

On July 16, 1969, Apollo 11 launched from Kennedy Space Center, Florida.

"As the mission was unfolding we were keeping briefed on how it was going," Hartung said.

The UN-L researchers were even given the astronauts daily menu.

"It was an amazing thing to think here was man and now here he was about to land on the moon," Hartung said.

Hartung remembers watching the historic event broadcast live July 20, 1969.

"We wondered in the lunar module if they took any slice of bread with them," Hartung said.

The bread was a success and used on all the Apollo and Skylab missions. It also propelled the university's fledgling program to takeoff.

The department now has more than 35 faculty and moved to a state-of-the-art facility on innovation campus.

"There's an expression that science is built on the shoulders of giants," said UN-L food microbiologist, Robert Hutkins.

Hutkins said UN-L rates with some of the top food science programs in the world.

"It think we are right up there. Nebraskans are always rather humble," Hutkins said.

He did a little research on the university's role in the space program.

"I'll be darned, I looked up some studies; funded by NASA, funded by the Army, funded by the Atomic Energy Commission. I thought, we were right there at the very beginning," Hutkins said.

One reminder of that research is on display in one of the labs. Grain in glass jars from 50 years ago. Non-irradiated corn now bluish-gray and moldy.

"The one that has been irradiated, you can't even tell it's 50 years old," said UN-L microbiologist," Andreia Bianchini.

Assistant professor of practice, Heather Hallen-Adams said many inventions and food safety practices used today came out of the space program.

"If you have food poisoning in space, you can't run to a doctor, you can't run home. If the food is bad, you're stuck with the bad food. It is a zero tolerance situation," Hallen-Adams said.

So sending bread in space was quite a feat.

"It was really kind of a great boost to have that kind of quality relationship from NASA," Hartung said.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 20, 2023, 01:22:29 PM
A slice of Wapakoneta, OHIO was there in the form of Neil Armstrong
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 04:30:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/k0PWfQ4.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 06:04:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/3TWwwO8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 06:12:44 PM
apparently, back in the day, it was OK to shoot dolphins
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 20, 2023, 09:11:42 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

First Test of a Nuclear Weapon (1945)
Called the Trinity test, the first test of a nuclear weapon was conducted by the US in New Mexico on what is now White Sands Missile Range. The detonation of the implosion-design plutonium bomb—the same type used on Nagasaki, Japan, a few weeks later—was equivalent to the explosion of approximately 20 kilotons of TNT, and is usually considered the beginning of the Atomic Age. It is said that the scientists who observed the detonation set up a betting pool on what the result would be.
The test site, Trinity, is open to the public twice a year, on the first Saturday in (I think) March and October. It is fascinating to see. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on July 21, 2023, 07:49:18 AM
The test site, Trinity, is open to the public twice a year, on the first Saturday in (I think) March and October. It is fascinating to see.
I have a piece of trinitite from my visit many years ago,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2023, 07:58:59 AM
apparently, back in the day, it was OK to shoot dolphins
Only if you are a man, and from UNCLE.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 21, 2023, 08:26:37 PM
Today in History: July 21, guilty verdict in Scopes “Monkey Trial”

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2023, 07:44:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/07Rh8Of.png)

1871, Rome, looks rural.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2023, 08:39:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Wiley Post Becomes First Pilot to Circumnavigate the Globe Solo (1933)
In 1931, American aviator Wiley Post flew around the world with navigator Harold Gatty in 8 days, 15 hours, and 51 minutes, breaking the previous record of 21 days. They published an account of their trip in Around the World in Eight Days. Two years later, Post became the first person to fly around the world alone, a feat he completed in just 7 days and 19 hours. Post died in 1935 when his plane crashed in Alaska
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 22, 2023, 08:48:29 AM
World War II Today: July 22
/
1939
Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini sign “Pact of Steel” forming the Axis powers.
1940
British cipher experts at Bletchley Park break the Luftwaffe Enigma code.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2023, 08:50:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SPxCpWk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2023, 08:53:59 AM
1940
British cipher experts at Bletchley Park break the Luftwaffe Enigma code.




kinda big deal
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2023, 10:20:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/plRRVwv.png)

1939.  The poor back then were really really poor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 22, 2023, 02:39:42 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/SPxCpWk.png)
Jeebis that's a worse idea than electric cars but unlike now they realized it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2023, 03:30:49 PM
[img width=367.99 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/plRRVwv.png[/img]

1939.  The poor back then were really really poor.
yup, fighting for food
doesn't seem to be that bad today
I hope it's not
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2023, 08:05:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

12th Street Riot Begins (1967)
In 1967, racial tensions spurred by high unemployment rates and poor housing conditions in Detroit exploded when police officers raided a speakeasy on the corner of 12th Street and Clairmount. The confrontation with the patrons developed into one of the deadliest and most destructive riots in modern US history, lasting five days and resulting in 43 deaths, 467 injuries, more than 7,200 arrests, and the destruction of more than 2,000 buildings.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 23, 2023, 04:50:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/0M5xctz.png)
U.S. General Ulysses S. Grant (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Ulysses-S-Grant), who commanded the Union armies to victory in the American Civil War (https://www.britannica.com/event/American-Civil-War) and later served as the 18th president of the United States (https://www.britannica.com/topic/presidency-of-the-United-States-of-America), died at the age of 63.

1995
Two astronomers, Alan Hale in New Mexico and Thomas Bopp in Arizona, almost simultaneously discover a comet.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 24, 2023, 07:12:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Nixon and Khrushchev Engage in "Kitchen Debate" (1959)
The Kitchen Debate was an impromptu debate—conducted through interpreters—between US Vice President Richard Nixon and Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev at the opening of the American National Exhibition in Moscow in 1959. Centering on a discussion of the merits of capitalism versus communism, it took place in the kitchen of a model suburban American house designed to showcase American household appliances, which Nixon touted as examples of American innovation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 24, 2023, 07:17:39 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Calogero Vizzini (1877)
Vizzini, don of the village of Villalba, was one of the most influential Mafia bosses of Sicily following WWII. After the war, the staunch anti-communist was made mayor of Villalba by the Allied occupiers, a move that some might say adds credence to claims that Allied Forces enlisted direct Mafia support during their invasion of Sicily in 1943. Between 1949 and 1954, Vizzini reportedly ruled a lucrative black market operation,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 25, 2023, 01:00:55 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/OivPKUk.png)
Left to Right for comparison
Massachusetts
Washington
Missouri
Yamato
Bismarck
Rodney
KGV
Hood
I've been meaning to come back to this to give context to @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) 's post and forgot about it so here it goes now.  

Massachusetts was a South Dakota Class Battleship of the USN.  The SoDak's were the second-to-last class of BB's completed by the United States.  The four ships (South Dakota BB57, Indiana BB58, Massachusetts BB59, and Alabama BB60) were built between 1939-1942 and when they were commissioned in 1942 (all four) they were the USN's most powerful BB's and some of the most powerful in the world.  They had 9x16" main guns and a plethora of smaller guns for close-in and AA defense.  Massachusetts and Alabama are preserved as museums in their namesake states.  SoDak and Indiana were scrapped.  

Washington was a North Carolina Class Battleship of the USN.  They were the immediate predecessors of the aforementioned SoDak class and thus were the third-to-last class of BB's completed by the United States.  The two ships (North Carolina BB55 and Washington BB56) were built between 1937-1941 with both being commissioned in the summer of 1941.  Thus, they were the USN's newest and most powerful battleships when the US entered WWII.  They had 9x16" main guns and a plethora of smaller guns for close-in and AA defense.  They were somewhat less well protected than the SoDak's.  North Carolina is preserved as a museum in it's namesake state, Washington was scrapped.  

Missouri was an Iowa Class Battleship of the USN.  They were the final class of BB's completed by the United States.  The four completed ships (Iowa BB61, New Jersey BB62, Missouri BB63, and Wisconsin BB64) were built between 1940-1944 and entered the fight toward the end of WWII.  Thus, they were the newest and most powerful battleships in the US Fleet.  They had 9x16" main guns and a plethora of smaller guns for close-in and AA defense.  Their primary improvement over the preceding SoDak class was that the Iowa's were faster.  The SoDak's and N. Carolina's could only obtain about 28 knots while the Iowa's could make 33 knots.  This 5kn improvement came at an IMMENSE cost because (engineers here can explain better than me) adding speed becomes exponentially more difficult so I think the Iowa's had to have something like 2.5x the power to go a mere 5kn faster.  In any case the increase was important for many reasons including:

All four are preserved as museums.  Iowa is in LA, New Jersey is across the river from Philly, Missouri is in Pearl Harbor (the USN put it there overlooking the USS Arizona Memorial which is a powerful statement if you think about it), and Wisconsin is Norfolk, VA.  

The original intention of the USN was to follow-up the Iowa class with a class of larger and more powerful but somewhat slower Battleships called the Montana Class.  Those ships were designed with 12x16" main guns, heavier armor than the Iowa's, and more secondary guns.  However, wartime experience showed that the age of the Battleship was effectively over and to the extent that BB's were needed at all, they were needed as carrier escorts which the slower Montana's couldn't do.  Thus, two of the Montana's were reordered as Iowa's and became the Illinois BB65 and Kentucky BB66.  These last two Iowa's were cancelled when it became apparent that they were surplus to wartime needs and eventually scrapped although one of them (I forget which) had it's bow removed and used to repair one of the completed ships.  

You may have noticed in the picture that all three USN Battleships appear to be the same width.  They are almost exactly the same width.  The width was determined by the locks of the Panama Canal.  All three pictured USN BB's are just narrow enough that they and two coats of wax can fit through the Panama Canal.  

Yamato was a Yamato Class Battleship of the IJN (Imperial Japanese Navy).  The Yamato's were the largest class of BB's ever completed.  The two ships (Yamato and Mushashi, a third was converted to an aircraft carrier part way through construction) were built in the run-up to and early part of WWII and they were the most powerful BB's in the IJN and arguably the world.  (Iowa's have an argument because while they had smaller guns and thinner armor their guns and armor were better pound-for-pound so it is a hotly debated topic).  They had 9x18.1" main guns and a plethora of smaller guns for close-in and AA defense.  


Bismark was a Bismark Class Battleship of the KM (Kriegsmarine, sp?).  The Bismarks were the largest class of BB's ever completed by a European power.  The two ships (Bismark and Tirpitz) were built by Nazi Germany in the run-up to WWII.  Bismark famously sank the Hood (see below) and was in turn sunk by nearly the entire British Fleet including one of the Nelrods and one of the KGV's (see below).  They had 8x15" guns and could obtain about 30kn.  Tirpitz was tucked away in a Norwegian Fjord where it effectively tied up a half-dozen British and US Battleships by just being a "Fleet in being" that the RN and USN were compelled to remain prepared to fight.  Eventually the British managed to sink it with aerial bombs and it's hulk has provided a massive amount of low background steel for various applications in which background radiation is a problem.  Bismark was sunk in the North Atlantic while unsuccessfully trying to get close enough to occupied France to acquire German air cover after the Battle of the Denmark Straight in which she had sunk the Hood.  

Rodney was a Nelson Class Battleship of the RN.  The Nelson's were the only class of British BB's completed between the pre-WWI designed Revenge Class and the immediate run-up to WWII.  They were built under the restrictions of the Washington Naval Treaty and were odd ships due to measures taken to comply.  They had 9x16" guns but could only obtain 23 kn because speed was severely limited by the necessity to keep the powerplant light enough that the ship could meet the treaty limit.  The immediately visible unusual feature is that the three main turrets are all located forward of the bridge.  This was done to minimize the size (and thus weight) of the armored citadel.  

King George the Fifth (KGV) was a KGV Class Battleship of the RN.  The KGV's were the last class of British BB's completed before the end of WWII (the completed one additional post-war BB).  They were built partially under the restrictions of the treaty system but that system was collapsing as they were being built.  The five ships (KGV, Prince of Wales (POW), Duke of York (DOY), Anson, and Howe) were built between 1936-1942 and were the most modern BB's in the RN during WWII.  They had 10x14" main guns and smaller arms and could obtain 28kn.  They are roughly equivalent to the US SoDak Class.  

Hood has a really interesting story.  It was laid down during WWI and completed just before the treaty system went into effect.  Consequently, it was the most powerful warship in the world for around 20 years.  During this time it gained a rather revered/mythic status in Britain so it's loss (to Bismark) early in WWII was particularly troubling to the RN and the British in general.  It had 8x15" main guns and could obtain 32 kn.  At construction it was designated a BattleCruiser but by WWII standards it was probably more proper to call it a fast Battleship (like the Iowa's).  It was sunk by a catastrophic magazine explosion* after taking hits from Bismark early in WWII.  *Catastrophic Magazine Explosion is redundant.  All Magazine Explosions are by nature catastrophic.  Arizona suffered a similar fate at Pearl Harbor and about half of US deaths at Pear Harbor occurred when Arizona blew up.  similarly, there were only three survivors out of Hood's crew of nearly 1,500.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 25, 2023, 01:20:30 PM
These last two Iowa's were cancelled when it became apparent that they were surplus to wartime needs and eventually scrapped although one of them (I forget which) had it's bow removed and used to repair one of the completed ships. 
The Kentucky's bow was removed to repair the Wisconsin after a collision with another ship. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 25, 2023, 01:26:29 PM
Regarding the American BB's. The South Dakota class of BB had 9-16 inch main guns. They were .45 caliber guns known as Mark 6 guns. The Iowa class BB's, had 9-16 inch Mark 7 50 caliber guns which were slightly more powerful and had a greater range than the Mark 6 guns. 

Either way, they both had awesome firepower. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 25, 2023, 03:58:04 PM
Regarding the American BB's. The South Dakota class of BB had 9-16 inch main guns. They were .45 caliber guns known as Mark 6 guns. The Iowa class BB's, had 9-16 inch Mark 7 50 caliber guns which were slightly more powerful and had a greater range than the Mark 6 guns.

Either way, they both had awesome firepower.
In the actual event it hardly mattered because the marginally longer range of the Iowa's Mark 7 guns paled in comparison to the vastly longer range of carrier based aircraft which had rendered Battleships more-or-less obsolete by the time the Iowa's were completed.

They were great at shore bombardment but range is rarely an issue in that capacity and for that matter the much older 14" and 12" armed ships were just about as effective anyway.

In my earlier post I forgot to include the ultimate fates of the Yamato class ships.

Mushashi went first. It was part of the Japanese Center Force for what became the Battle of Leyte Gulf during the US invasion of the Philippines along with Yamato. The USN discovered this powerful surface force and dispatched a staggering quantity of aircraft to deal with it before it got close enough to do any damage. Musashi absorbed a tremendous amount of firepower before succumbing after taking an estimated 17 bombs and 19 torpedoes.

A month later the intended third Yamato Class ship, Shinano, which had been converted to an aircraft carrier during construction was ordered to be moved from Tokyo Bay where construction was still underway to the more protected  Japanese Inland Sea due to Shinano having been spotted by US reconnaissance flights. Unfortunately for Shinano and her crew, this move was ordered over the protest of her captain due to the fact that the ship was incomplete and watertight integrity of her doors and compartments had not been tested.

Shinano barely made it out of sight of Tokyo Bay before the USN submarine Archerfish got her with four torpedoes. She sank a few hours later.

Yamato herself lasted a bit longer. She survived almost to the end of the war before being sent on a suicide mission in a last ditch effort to defend Okinawa. She was ordered to beach herself on the island as an unsinkable gun battery. She never even got close. As with her sister, the USN sent in an overwhelming force of aircraft and Yamato sank after taking at least 11 torpedoes and six bombs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 25, 2023, 06:01:16 PM
One way to make a ship faster is to make it longer but no wider.  Hence, the Iowas were 861 feetin length vs about 713, and they had 212,000 shaft hp vs about 120,000.

These ships of course didn't cruise at 33 knots, but they would often approach that speed for carrier flight operations, and of course in combat.  It helps to launch planes with 30+ knots of headwind.  A WW 2 naval fighter might need 75 knots to become airborne so you only need 45 knots provided by the plane.  The same is true for landing, it lowers you ground speed.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 25, 2023, 06:29:53 PM
Their primary improvement over the preceding SoDak class was that the Iowa's were faster.  The SoDak's and N. Carolina's could only obtain about 28 knots while the Iowa's could make 33 knots.  This 5kn improvement came at an IMMENSE cost because (engineers here can explain better than me) adding speed becomes exponentially more difficult so I think the Iowa's had to have something like 2.5x the power to go a mere 5kn faster.  

Yes. Drag is generally an exponential. In aerodynamic drag, the force increases with the square of velocity. Meaning to add 2 mph of top speed doesn't take twice as much power as to add 1 mph, it takes MORE than twice as much. 

It's why coefficient of drag is so important for fuel economy, and it's also why motorcycles are ridiculously "fast" when it comes to acceleration but have woeful top speeds compared to many cars. A motorcycle is horrible aerodynamically, so even if it accelerates quickly due to high power-to-weight ratio, its top speed will be FAR less than you typically expect. Because the coefficient of drag is terrible. 

I don't know the equations for aquatic drag, but in general aquatic drag is MUCH more severe than aerodynamic, so assuming it also follows an exponential relationship, going from 28 knots to 33 knots is a massive increase. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 10:04:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2hwqwwj.png)

Back row: Auguste Piccard, Émile Henriot, Paul Ehrenfest, Édouard Herzen, Théophile de Donder, Erwin Schrödinger, Jules-Émile Verschaffelt, Wolfgang Pauli, Werner Heisenberg, Ralph Howard Fowler, Léon Brillouin.
Middle row: Peter Debye, Martin Knudsen, William Lawrence Bragg, Hendrik Anthony Kramers, Paul Dirac, Arthur Compton, Louis de Broglie, Max Born, Niels Bohr.
Front row (seated): Irving Langmuir, Max Planck, Marie Skłodowska Curie, Hendrik Lorentz, Albert Einstein, Paul Langevin, Charles-Eugène Guye, Charles Thomson Rees Wilson, Owen Willans Richardson.
Photo: Benjamin Couprie, Institut International de Physique Solvay, Leopold Park, Brussels, Belgium. Public domain via Wikimedia Commons.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 10:05:03 AM
Irving Langmuir is often considered the first "industrial chemist" and came up with the famous Langmuir equation, which I had occasion to use several times.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 26, 2023, 03:18:07 PM
Escaping Nebraska's hottest day ever recorded with a high of 115 degrees, residents of Lincoln, Nebraska slept on the lawn of the State Capitol when temperatures never fell below 91 degrees on July 25, 1936.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/362240819_670349211800869_1328296722473670837_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=VFEsCzNSbXkAX_93rdH&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCkOwI_2dCbjQ_mVucTJfZuLi-vPrrAzsdEcyfDJMkL4Q&oe=64C56350)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2023, 08:08:06 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Killiecrankie (1689)
Fought between Scottish highland clans supporting James II and VII and the government troops of William of Orange, the Battle of Killiecrankie occurred in Scotland during the first Jacobite uprising in 1689. Outnumbered, barefoot, and armed mostly with claymores—large, double-edged broadswords—the highlanders, led by John Graham of Claverhouse, used their position on the steep Pass of Killiecrankie to force a retreat. Despite the victory, Claverhouse was killed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 08:11:10 AM
The bottom layer of rock at Bryce Canyon is the top layer of Zion National Park and the bottom layer at Zion is the top layer of the Grand Canyon
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 08:57:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CPsBfSa.png)

I am struck by how unpopular streetcars are today (outside SF where they are touristy), and busses.  I often see busses go by with 1 or 2 passengers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 27, 2023, 09:15:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/KaIsmrV.jpg)

Damn Bugeaters can't handle their Liquor. Is that a coreectional facility you were affiliated with FF?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2023, 09:19:06 AM

I am struck by how unpopular streetcars are today (outside SF where they are touristy), and busses.  I often see busses go by with 1 or 2 passengers.
folks have too much money these days or simply make their personal vehicle a priority.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 01:59:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/TJqPWvN.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 02:39:02 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hV0IfYC.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 27, 2023, 02:47:08 PM
[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/TJqPWvN.png[/img]
One historical fact that I find astounding is that the Pyramids were older when the Romans got to Egypt than the Roman ruins are now.

Another way to phrase it is that Julius Caesar is closer in time to an iPhone than to a Pyramid builder.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 03:07:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/JhN3wkw.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 28, 2023, 08:27:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US Bomber Crashes into New York's Empire State Building (1945)
On a foggy Saturday morning in July 1945, a B-25 Mitchell bomber accidentally crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building between the 79th and 80th floors. One of the plane's engines shot through the building and out the other side, and the other plummeted down an elevator shaft. Though 14 people died in the incident, the building was largely open for business on the following Monday. What Guinness World Record was set by elevator operator Betty Lou Oliver during the accident?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: LetsGoPeay on July 28, 2023, 08:29:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

US Bomber Crashes into New York's Empire State Building (1945)
On a foggy Saturday morning in July 1945, a B-25 Mitchell bomber accidentally crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building between the 79th and 80th floors. One of the plane's engines shot through the building and out the other side, and the other plummeted down an elevator shaft. Though 14 people died in the incident, the building was largely open for business on the following Monday. What Guinness World Record was set by elevator operator Betty Lou Oliver during the accident?

Probably something to do with feces. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 28, 2023, 08:33:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

US Bomber Crashes into New York's Empire State Building (1945)
On a foggy Saturday morning in July 1945, a B-25 Mitchell bomber accidentally crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building between the 79th and 80th floors. One of the plane's engines shot through the building and out the other side, and the other plummeted down an elevator shaft. Though 14 people died in the incident, the building was largely open for business on the following Monday. What Guinness World Record was set by elevator operator Betty Lou Oliver during the accident?
I had read about this before 9/11 so on 9/11 when I first heard that a plane had hit the WTC, this is what I immediately thought of and I initially assumed that the incident was similar to this.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 28, 2023, 12:18:41 PM
I have a piece of trinitite from my visit many years ago,
I can't recall ever encountering anyone else who has visited. What did you think of it?

I thought of this comment today because I saw an article about visitation and that they are expecting a massive increase in numbers this year due to the release of Oppenheimer. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2023, 07:44:40 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/odBQElR.png)

I'm a big fan of Bernard Cornwell and "The Last Kingdom" etc.  This is one reason our language is so weird.  Then the "French" invaded, except they weren't exactly "French".  Then some of the folks in the green area migrated to "France" to a part called "Brittany" because Britons lived there and spoke Breton, some still do.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2023, 12:22:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/YAhqfkY.png)

The first rocket launch at Cape Canaveral, Florida, took place on this day in 1950 with the launch of "Bumper 8." According to thisdayinaviation-dot-com the vehicle was ".....a two-stage rocket consisting of a captured German V-2 ballistic missile as the first stage and a WAC Corporal sounding rocket as the upper, second, stage. When launched, the rocket engine burned for 65 seconds, accelerating the rocket to 3,580 miles per hour with a peak altitude between 88 and 128 miles, depending on the desired range." (NASA image) 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 29, 2023, 01:02:38 PM
zero to 3,580 miles per hour in 60 seconds

impressive
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 29, 2023, 01:20:32 PM
My '71 Dart did that.....down hill w/o brakes and a Keg in the trunk
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 29, 2023, 01:29:14 PM
did ya push it off a cliff?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 29, 2023, 02:50:29 PM
did ya push it off a cliff?
You joke, but I doubt a '71 Dart even has terminal velocity anywhere near 3850 mph... 

(I'm fun at parties.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 29, 2023, 04:21:41 PM
You joke, but I doubt a '71 Dart even has terminal velocity anywhere near 3850 mph...

(I'm fun at parties.)
Dropped from a REALLY high height, would it even be supersonic? I doubt it but I really have no idea. I'd guess terminal velocity wouldn't be much more than a couple hundred MPH.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2023, 04:37:05 PM
Terminal velocity is 25,000 mph ... in a vacuum, in air of course, it depends on aerodynamics.  The below is slower than I would have guessed for such an aero object.

 A bullet fired straight up, with no wind, might reach a height of 10,000 feet (about three kilometers), but will come back down at only around 150 miles per hour: just 10% of the speed and with only 1% of the energy as the originally fired bullet.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 29, 2023, 04:44:57 PM
Terminal velocity is 25,000 mph ... in a vacuum, in air of course, it depends on aerodynamics.  The below is slower than I would have guessed for such an aero object.

A bullet fired straight up, with no wind, might reach a height of 10,000 feet (about three kilometers), but will come back down at only around 150 miles per hour: just 10% of the speed and with only 1% of the energy as the originally fired bullet.
I can't imagine that a 71 Dart is much more aerodynamic than a bullet so it sounds even slower than my original guess.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2023, 04:53:36 PM
"We" tend to think the weight would be a factor, but it's a very slight one.  I'd guess a car would be around 120 mph, same as a human.  I think a human can hit 180+ head down, so maybe the bullet thing is wrong.

In October, at the United States Parachute Association Nationals in Arizona, Lobpries became the fastest athlete in the sport when he reached a speed of 318.74 m.p.h. That exceeded his previous world record of 316.23 m.p.h. Maxine Tate, a fellow American competitor, also broke her own women’s world record, increasing her speed from 275.8 to 285.27 m.p.h. Those records blow by the top speeds of NASCAR, IndyCar and Formula 1 drivers, who have never surpassed 260 miles per hour in official competitions.

It’s a sport for people who have flung themselves out of planes with such frequency that the simple act of strapping on a parachute and staring at a 13,000-foot drop no longer offers an adequate adrenaline rush.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2023, 08:53:30 AM
I think the bullet thing is wrong 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 30, 2023, 09:10:44 AM
I think the bullet thing is wrong
Yeah, I agree, a bullet should drop faster than a human.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2023, 09:14:25 AM
Still wouldn't want to get hit by a bullet going around 150mph
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 30, 2023, 09:28:52 AM
However, on earth there is air resistance. As the bullet falls air resistance will cause the bullet to stop accelerating and hit terminal velocity (terminal velocity is the speed at which air resistance balances the accelerating force of gravity). Experiments have determined that falling bullets reach terminal velocity at 200-300 feet per second depending on type. Note that falling bullets (shot vertically) usually do not come down nose first – which would be the most aerodynamic – but instead tumble, which really slows the bullet.

When you fire a bullet into the air, it typically takes between 20 and 90 seconds for it to come down, depending on the angle it was fired at, its muzzle velocity and its caliber. So, if you are a bystander, you have some time to take cover.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 30, 2023, 09:33:42 AM
HESE ARE ACTUAL COMPLAINTS RECEIVED BY "THOMAS COOK VACATIONS" FROM DISSATISFIED CUSTOMERS:
1. "They should not allow topless sunbathing on the beach. It was very distracting for my husband who just wanted to relax."
2. "On my holiday to Goa in India, I was disgusted to find that almost every restaurant served curry. I don't like spicy food."
3. "We went on holiday to Spain and had a problem with the taxi drivers as they were all Spanish."
4. "We booked an excursion to a water park but no-one told us we had to bring our own swimsuits and towels. We assumed it would be included in the price."
5. "The beach was too sandy. We had to clean everything when we returned to our room."
6. "We found the sand was not like the sand in the brochure. Your brochure shows the sand as white but it was more yellow."
7. "It's lazy of the local shopkeepers in Puerto Vallartato close in the afternoons. I often needed to buy things during 'siesta' time -- this should be banned."
8. "No-one told us there would be fish in the water. The children were scared."
9. "Although the brochure said that there was a fully equipped kitchen, there was no egg-slicer in the drawers."
10. "I think it should be explained in the brochure that the local convenience store does not sell proper biscuits like custard creams or ginger nuts."
11. "The roads were uneven and bumpy, so we could not read the local guide book during the bus ride to the resort. Because of this, we were unaware of many things that would have made our holiday more fun."
12. "It took us nine hours to fly home from Jamaica to England. It took the Americans only three hours to get home. This seems unfair."
13. "I compared the size of our one-bedroom suite to our friends' three-bedroom and ours was significantly smaller."
14. "The brochure stated: 'No hairdressers at the resort.' We're trainee hairdressers and we think they knew and made us wait longer for service."
15. "When we were in Spain, there were too many Spanish people there. The receptionist spoke Spanish, the food was Spanish. No one told us that there would be so many foreigners."
16. "We had to line up outside to catch the boat and there was no air-conditioning."
17. "It is your duty as a tour operator to advise us of noisy or unruly guests before we travel."
18. "I was bitten by a mosquito. The brochure did not mention mosquitoes."
19. "My fiancée and I requested twin-beds when we booked, but instead we were placed in a room with a king bed. We now hold you responsible and want to be re-reimbursed for the fact that I became pregnant. This would not have happened if you had put us in the room that we booked."


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 30, 2023, 10:15:41 AM
Those are contrived by the writer or those who said it - they can't be that bent. Ya it's your fault resort that we fornicated and I'm pregnant or the fish in the water or mosquitoes in the air .They wouldn't be smart enough to afford such a vacation
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 30, 2023, 03:06:51 PM
Yeah, I agree, a bullet should drop faster than a human. 
Of course, bullets drop humans.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 30, 2023, 03:28:41 PM
I had not figured on the bullet tumbling as "we" are used to them coming out as a spiral.  That would make for a cute physics calculation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on July 30, 2023, 04:25:04 PM
I had read about this before 9/11 so on 9/11 when I first heard that a plane had hit the WTC, this is what I immediately thought of and I initially assumed that the incident was similar to this.
As did I.  I just assumed it was some sort of an accident, never realized it was even a big airliner until the 2nd one hit, then it kinda sunk in that it wasn't by accident.  Especially the way the 2nd one slammed into it going full speed.  I was watching it live on TV as I recall.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 30, 2023, 06:32:34 PM
The lady I woke up next to still thought it was accidental when the 2nd plane hit, but it was obvious to me that the math didn't add up on that.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2023, 09:04:03 AM
John Ford (seated) directs a sheriff’s posse scene with Ward Bond and John Wayne in the lead for “The Searchers” in 1956. 
John Wayne considered the part of Ethan Edwards to be the best character that he ever portrayed on-screen and he declared "The Searchers" (1956) to be his favorite film role.  As a result, John Wayne named his youngest son Ethan.
Natalie Wood was still a student in high school when this film was being made, and, on several occasions, John Wayne and Jeffrey Hunter had to pick her up at school. This caused a good deal of excitement among Wood's female classmates.
During filming, a Navajo child became seriously ill with pneumonia and needed urgent medical attention. John Wayne had his own airplane on location and had his pilot take the little girl to a hospital. For his deed, the Navajos named him "The Man With The Big Eagle".


(https://i.imgur.com/wUPhuab.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2023, 09:13:15 AM
In 1839 Charles Goodyear invented vulcanization, a process that forms molecular cross-linkages between polymer chains in rubber. The result is rubber that is stronger, more elastic, and much more resistance to hot and cold temperatures.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2023, 09:36:57 AM
Another accidental discovery of note ...  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2023, 10:02:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty Signed by the US and USSR (1991)
Signed five months before the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty was a result of negotiations aimed at reducing the nuclear arsenals of the US and the USSR. In 1991, at the conclusion of two sets of talks, US President George H.W. Bush and Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev agreed to a reduction of the Soviet Union stockpile from 11,000 to 8,000 nuclear weapons and of the US arsenal from 12,000 to 10,000.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2023, 11:16:36 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 
Primo Levi (1919)
Two years after earning a degree in chemistry, Levi, an Italian Jew, was captured by the Nazis and sent to Auschwitz. He later recounted the atrocities he witnessed in autobiographical novels including If This Is a Man, which has been described as one of the most important works of the 20th century. His best known work, The Periodic Table, is a collection of 21 meditations, each named for a chemical element.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 31, 2023, 12:38:13 PM
I had read about this before 9/11 so on 9/11 when I first heard that a plane had hit the WTC, this is what I immediately thought of and I initially assumed that the incident was similar to this.
I was boarding a plane in Cleveland just after the first plane hit. As I was checking in at the jet-way, the counter person mentioned that a plane had just hit the WTC. Remembering the story of the B-25 hitting years earlier, I to was thinking it was a small plane accidentally hitting the building. Once I made it to my seat, we taxied to the end of the run way and then returned to the terminal and de-planed. There was a bar in the middle of the terminal with a couple of big screen TVs. I was sitting there watching when the 2nd plane hit. At that point, I grabbed my carry-on's and stated that I was heading home. A guy that had been on the plane beside me was sitting in the bar and said that the pilot said to wait and check back in later. I said, we're not going anywhere now. I'm going home. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2023, 12:39:43 PM
The ground stop they pulled off was a marvel of organization.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2023, 02:13:13 PM
Former Canadian defence secretary Paul Hellyer calls on governments to reveal UFO information | The Independent | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/former-canadian-defence-secretary-paul-hellyer-calls-on-governments-to-reveal-ufo-information-10190024.html)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2023, 07:00:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/7DlKhnm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 31, 2023, 07:31:20 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/7DlKhnm.png)
Sorry, I was raised by my pastor to believe that there are only two true gears. Some of these are an abomination! 

I mean, look at that planetary gear! It might as well be MORMON!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 01, 2023, 06:32:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Nanchang Uprising (1927)
Considered the birthplace of the People's Liberation Army, the city of Nanchang in the Jiangxi Province of southeastern China was the site of the first revolutionary activities of the Chinese Communist Party in 1927. During the uprising, a force of 30,000 Communist troops rose against the Kuomintang government and briefly established the first soviet republic in China. However, the government soon retook the city, and it became the regular Nationalist capital in 1928.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 01, 2023, 08:34:37 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY:
Primo Levi (1919)
Two years after earning a degree in chemistry, Levi, an Italian Jew, was captured by the Nazis and sent to Auschwitz. He later recounted the atrocities he witnessed in autobiographical novels including If This Is a Man, which has been described as one of the most important works of the 20th century. His best known work, The Periodic Table, is a collection of 21 meditations, each named for a chemical element.
That book is a fascinating read. 

Levi's retelling of his return home after being liberated from Auschwitz by the Soviets is interesting. His home country, Italy, had been at war with the USSR so he ended up in with some Italian POW's at one point. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2023, 09:21:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/qRQDO3F.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2023, 10:47:31 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ceS8xGu.png)

I hope those passengers aren't wearing anything ferrometallic.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2023, 11:39:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XTsIwMj.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2023, 04:10:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/d7Gj4V6.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 01, 2023, 04:20:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ceS8xGu.png)

I hope those passengers aren't wearing anything ferrometallic.
Theoretically the cabin could be, and would be, shielded.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 02, 2023, 09:09:06 PM

THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Sinking of PT-109 (1943)
While on patrol in the Pacific during WWII, USS PT-109 was run down by the Japanese destroyer Amagiri. The much smaller American boat was torn apart by the impact, and two seamen perished. The surviving crew, commanded by future US President John F. Kennedy, swam to safety on a nearby island and survived on coconuts for days before Solomon Islanders scouting the area found them. Kennedy's actions made him a war hero.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 02, 2023, 09:21:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/d7Gj4V6.png)
3 speed standard shift no power steering or brakes not a problem manually operating the wipers. be a bitch tossing back a beer though
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2023, 09:16:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Columbus Sets Sail for the New World (1492)
By his early 30s, Columbus had become a master mariner in the Portuguese merchant service. Convinced that he could reach land by sailing west, he requested ships to attempt such a voyage from both John II of Portugal and Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain but was repeatedly rebuffed. Finally, after eight years of supplication by Columbus, the Spanish monarchs decided to risk the enterprise.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2023, 10:35:57 AM
3 speed standard shift no power steering or brakes not a problem manually operating the wipers. be a bitch tossing back a beer though
... and nary a cup holder in sight ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2023, 11:14:46 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/o5p0KF9.png)

USS Alabama 16" gun breech
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2023, 03:08:45 PM
My 'hood, then (1978) and now:

(https://i.imgur.com/ljRfmwl.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/4tQ9C6k.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 03, 2023, 03:42:09 PM
My 'hood, then (1978) and now:
[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/ljRfmwl.png[/img]

[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/4tQ9C6k.png[/img]
Mr Carrier sure did change the world, didn't he.

My dad was born in 1940 and his mother's family was from the Atlanta area (where the airport is now). My dad recalled spending several summers in the late 1940's with his Southern cousins and said that, at the time, visiting Atlanta was like visiting a third world country by comparison to modern and industrial Cleveland/Akron.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2023, 08:07:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/hOKTPYP.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2023, 08:45:07 AM
On Thanksgiving Day, November 30th, 1922, Nebraska played their last football game at Nebraska Field.  That day the Cornhuskers beat the once tied Notre Dame Fighting Irish 14 to 6 in front of a capacity crowd of 16,000.  The Huskers were the Missouri Valley champion with a 5-0 record and a overall record of 7-1.  Their only loss was at Syracuse 6-9.  Notre Dame finished with a 8-1-1 record.  Their tie was a 0 to 0 game vs Army.  Nebraska Field's first season was 1909.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/365045541_6614806268583979_7890582197175903245_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=x8Vd0oqTVNgAX-CgCN9&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDMwNjRjJh1vCZz1GWIeGsiY7uXEjabvoLFPiX3ZSJ2SQ&oe=64D1B746)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2023, 09:12:02 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/X35H2Zw.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 04, 2023, 09:21:43 AM
[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/hOKTPYP.png[/img]
GTTSR?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2023, 01:33:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/YcoYNrF.png)

Tate City is an unincorporated community (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unincorporated_area) and census-designated place (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census-designated_place) in Towns County (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towns_County,_Georgia), Georgia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(U.S._state)), United States.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tate_City,_Georgia#cite_note-1) It was founded as a mining and logging community. The community was named after one Mr. Tate, a businessperson in the local lumber industry.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tate_City,_Georgia#cite_note-2)
Tate City sits in a scenic valley along the upper Tallulah River (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallulah_River), just south of the Georgia-North Carolina border. The community is flanked by various peaks of the Blue Ridge and Nantahala Mountains, including 4568-foot Hightower Bald (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hightower_Bald), 4640-ft. Dicks Knob (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicks_Knob), and 5499-ft. Standing Indian Mountain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_Indian_Mountain).
Demographics[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tate_City,_Georgia&action=edit&section=1)]
As of the 2010 United States Census (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_Census), there were 16 people living in the CDP. The racial makeup of the CDP was 100.0% White.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 04, 2023, 01:40:06 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/X35H2Zw.png)
Looks like one of the 3rd Reich's abandoned Artillery & Tunnel bunker designs
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 04, 2023, 03:35:15 PM
https://www.armytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2023/08/03/wwii-paratrooper-famous-for-bringing-beer-to-wounded-troops-dies-at-98/
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2023, 03:37:22 PM
I read that one earlier today
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 04, 2023, 03:43:28 PM
I read that one earlier today
Great story isn't it?

Sad that what has been called the greatest generation is nearly gone and dying off.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2023, 04:40:16 PM
July 30, 762 - Baghdad is founded.
After their victory over the Umayyads, the Abbasids - the new ruling dynasty in the Arab Empire - wanted a new capital from which to rule. On July 30, 762, Caliph Al-Mansur therefore ordered the founding of a new city on the banks of the Tigris, north of the ancient cities of Ctesiphon and Babylon. He baptised it "Madinat al-Salaam", City of Peace. However, the people continued to use the name of the pre-existing settlement: "Baghdad".
The location of the new city was strategically chosen. On the one hand, the city was on the dominant trade routes along the Tigris River. On the other hand, in both the north and the south of the city, there is water nearby - Baghdad is located near a meander of the Tigris - so that all households could be sufficiently supplied.
The markets of Baghdad attracted a large number of people from far and wide. They brought new prosperity, knowledge and literature. In the ninth century, this would make Baghdad a true world center of science and philosophy. The Islamic golden age had arrived.
Bonus fact: the city center was designed as a perfect circle, following the traditional Sassanid city planning. Unfortunately, nothing of this city center remains today. We only know this from surviving writings.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2023, 10:02:43 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Cowra Breakout: One of the Biggest Escapes in History (1944)
During World War II, Japanese prisoners of war at a camp near Cowra, Australia, orchestrated one of the largest prison escapes of the war. Armed only with makeshift weapons, hundreds of Japanese prisoners stormed the machine gun posts and overwhelmed the guards. Some prisoners, rather than escaping, attempted or committed suicide, or were killed by fellow soldiers. The breakout resulted in the deaths of four Australian soldiers and 231 Japanese prisoners.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2023, 08:44:11 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/6WNXC2s.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 06, 2023, 08:46:11 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The First Execution by Electric Chair (1890)
In the 1880s, inventor Thomas Edison sought to promote direct current (DC) power distribution by convincing the public that the alternating current (AC) electricity backed by rival George Westinghouse was dangerous. To that end, his partners developed an AC-powered electric chair, which was adopted by the state of New York as an official execution device. In 1889, murderer William Kemmler was sentenced to be the first person to be executed via electric chair.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 10:25:53 AM
A few more quotes from the Charles Campbell journal I'm transcribing:
[17 June 1864]  "Rev. Mr. A. W. Miller told me that he was about to remove his family to Mr. James Dunlop's as the shells had been falling about Lombard Street great part of the night. Saw mulatto man carrying in his arms on Bank Street a negro child, one leg cut off and another injured by a shell, looking for a surgeon. The mother followed screaming. Soon another child was brought along badly wounded in the side. They were wounded near the gas house. A battle going on this morning in Chesterfield near Swift Creek. Attack made by Confederates. The Yankees have in front of Petersburg two corps---Burnside and Hancock's. Some officers are of opinion that Grant was present in the fights yesterday....
[18 June 1864] "Saw some dusty officers riding up Sycamore Street and was told that Gen. Lee was among  them. Went to the Post Office headquarters where Lee was conferring with Gen. Beauregard. A crowd collected there. Waited about an hour to see the General. He rode on a sorel horse which I was told is not his favorite. Looked at his carriage. Has inside a small trunk, some blankets, &c. bundled up in canvass, 2 or 3 camp stools, a boot-jack, water bucket, small axe, &c. two plain large horses, rather poor. After remaining about an hour, started to go away when hearing a stir, I turned and saw Gen. Lee with Beauregard in front of the Post Office. They walked around to Union Street opposite the Institute where they mounted. Gen. Lee, turning to the crowd on the sidewalk made a slight obeisance, which was responded to, when they rode off, followed by some officers to visit our lines. Went out in the direction of Rives' farm. Gen. Lee is large, portly, plainly dressed, gray coat, long white beard and whiskers, large head. Reminded me every way of my idea of Washington...
...In afternoon, took my children & some others down to foot of Short Market Street near the river to see some Indian prisoners. There were 14 of them among some 300 yankee prisoners. they were in a 3rd story and the Lieutenant in command brought down two of the Indians for us to look at. The children had never seen one before. They told me that they were Ottawas from Michigan & belonged to a Michigan regiment. One named Louis Mark. The other Edward something which I could not catch, it being a guttural Indian word. Said that they have been in the army 12 months, had been in no fights till now. One of them did not talk English very well and he had nothing to say. They were tawny with dark straight black hair, black eyes, high cheek bones, of taciturn disposition and very grave-looking, robust men. One took off his cap at my request that the children might see his hair. They appeared to be full-blooded Indians..."
To read more of Charles' incredible journal, go to: [color=var(--blue-link)]https://sparedshared23.com/.../the-1863-64-journal-of.../ (https://sparedshared23.com/2023/07/30/the-1863-64-journal-of-petersburg-resident-charles-campbell/?fbclid=IwAR0UCxAicdXVQCZlKya09vlz-9Z5ZAzjW_FW0-vsQvy5zK2gAzZwYpZoWO0)[/url][/font][/font][/size][/color]

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2023, 10:28:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of Guadalcanal Begins (1942)
During World War II, the Japanese occupied the island of Guadalcanal in the South Pacific. Hoping to prevent the Japanese from using this position to threaten supply routes between the US, Australia, and New Zealand, the Allies launched their first large-scale invasion of a Japanese-held island. After six months of bitter fighting on the ground, at sea, and in the air, the Allies captured the island.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 10:30:42 AM
The 'canal campaign is quite interesting, to me, a pretty large "meeting engagement" in the Pacific theater which was dominated by naval action.  The US Navy lost more men than the 1st Marine Division.  The Japanese kept feeding in men without enough supply thinking the US force was smallish.  Then they managed a rather miraculous withdrawal at the end.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 07, 2023, 12:08:09 PM
A few more quotes from the Charles Campbell journal I'm transcribing:
That is interesting. A much more on-the-ground history than what we usually read. Is he an ancestor of yours?

I've mentioned here before that my family transcribed and sold copies of my great-great-grandfather's Civil War diary. Joshua Dewees fought in the Civil War as a soldier in the 97th Ohio Volunteer Infantry. He was my mother's mother's father's father. The diary is on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Joshua-DeWees-His-Civil-diary/dp/B0006P51OY
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 12:34:43 PM
No ancestor that I know of.  I was told my "people" hid up in the mountains and didn't fight, though I think a few did.  The Appalachian region of the Confederacy was not supportive of the war in general.  I was struck by how desolated the South was after the war in many areas.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 12:38:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/DzoArun.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 07, 2023, 12:40:52 PM
We had those in our freezer up until my parents finally got a fridge with icemaker in, like, 1992.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 07, 2023, 01:52:37 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Battle of Guadalcanal Begins (1942)
During World War II, the Japanese occupied the island of Guadalcanal in the South Pacific. Hoping to prevent the Japanese from using this position to threaten supply routes between the US, Australia, and New Zealand, the Allies launched their first large-scale invasion of a Japanese-held island. After six months of bitter fighting on the ground, at sea, and in the air, the Allies captured the island.
The 'canal campaign is quite interesting, to me, a pretty large "meeting engagement" in the Pacific theater which was dominated by naval action.  The US Navy lost more men than the 1st Marine Division.  The Japanese kept feeding in men without enough supply thinking the US force was smallish.  Then they managed a rather miraculous withdrawal at the end.
The Japanese handling of the battle severely hurt their cause.

They had several opportunities to push the USMC into the Solomon Sea and failed to do it.

The most notable was after the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands in October, 1942. The USS Hornet was sunk at that battle which left the USN with zero operational carriers in the Pacific. USN Carriers commissioned prior to November, 1942:
A couple of MUCH smaller and MUCH slower escort carriers had been commissioned but they were not fit for frontline duties against IJN ships and, in any case, they were desperately needed to chase U-boats in the Atlantic.


Thus, after Santa Cruz, the Japanese had no carrier opposition in the Pacific and they had a MUCH stronger surface fleet than the USN due to losses at Pearl Harbor and the fact that the new USN BB's were either just coming into service (SoDaks) or not yet complete (Iowas).

Instead of putting everything they had into an all-out effort to regain Guadalcanal, they continued the long, attrition campaign that was nearly perfectly suited to America's strengths.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 01:59:47 PM
The IJN and their Army did not play well together.  That friction is the source of much of their poor strategy and tactics.  It was still going to be tough for them to push 1MarDiv off the island.  They'd need to close Henderson substantially and for days at a time, which they never did.  Then they had to hack through mountainous jungle terrain to get at the Marine's lodgement, and then attack,  which they did a few times but without enough force.

The Marines feared an amphibious assault directly on their position which might have worked?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 07, 2023, 02:30:32 PM
The IJN and their Army did not play well together.
This is an understatement of epic proportions. I know you know that, I'm just stating it for anyone following the thread who is unaware. It is unbelievable how bad the relationship between the Army and Navy was.
It was still going to be tough for them to push 1MarDiv off the island.  They'd need to close Henderson substantially and for days at a time, which they never did.  Then they had to hack through mountainous jungle terrain to get at the Marine's lodgement, and then attack,  which they did a few times but without enough force.

The Marines feared an amphibious assault directly on their position which might have worked?
Taking out Henderson Field was obviously the key and my argument is not only that the Japanese could have done it, but that they almost did:

On the night of October 13/14 the IJN sent a major bombardment force that (per wiki but I've gotten the same info from various books):
The Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands (which eliminated serviceable USN carriers, see above) was less than two weeks later.

If they had sent the bombardment force back right after Santa Cruz, they'd have been able to stay into daylight and they'd have finished off the Cactus Air Force.

With no air cover and heavy Japanese surface units in the waters around Guadalcanal, it would have been impossible for the USN to resupply the troops on Guadalcanal. Meanwhile the Japanese could have delivered the heavy equipment that they desperately needed, or just shortcut the entire process and land new troops directly at Lungga Point.


US troops with no air cover and no resupply wouldn't have been able to do more than inflict a few casualties in defense.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 02:36:40 PM
It was a close run thing.  The change in commander at the top had some impact I think.  He was willing to commit the South Dakota and Washington in the waters around Savo Island, but that was a month later.

Henderson Field got repaired fairly quickly, and they built another air strip for fighters nearby that the Japanese didn't know about for a while.

I would hate to have been under the fire of 14" naval guns.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 07, 2023, 03:10:03 PM
It was a close run thing.  The change in commander at the top had some impact I think.  He was willing to commit the South Dakota and Washington in the waters around Savo Island, but that was a month later.

Henderson Field got repaired fairly quickly, and they built another air strip for fighters nearby that the Japanese didn't know about for a while.

I would hate to have been under the fire of 14" naval guns.
In addition to that, ultimately the Japanese were going to lose the war no matter what happened at Henderson Field because eventually all those SoDaks, Iowas, Baltimores, Clevelands, Alaskas, Montanas, Essexes, etc were going to show up and flat overwhelm them.

That said, I do think that the concept of Japanese victory at Guadalcanal makes for an interesting hypothetical. Suppose that, as per above, right after Santa Cruz, the IJN sends their BB's and their remaining CV to the Southern Solomons. The USN has little with which to resist so Henderson Field is obliterated, the CAF is put out of business, and the Japanese are able to resupply Guadalcanal while the US is not.

The USMC is pushed into the Solomon Sea in what would have been a bloody battle. Then what?

My theory:
King/Halsey ended up being "right" because it worked out but the troops on Guadalcanal referred to the whole thing as "Operation Shoestring" because the US wasn't really ready for such a major undertaking and the troops were chronically undersupplied.

There is a credible argument that what King/Halsey did was foolhardy because the US didn't have to be overly aggressive. Time was on our side.

Militaries are bureaucracies. Bureaucracies tend to overcompensate for past mistakes and perceived past mistakes. If the USMC had been pushed into the Solomon Sea at Guadalcanal, it would have been seen as a catastrophe born of King/Halsey's unnecessary and reckless over aggression.

The result would likely have been for the Generals and Admirals in charge of the Pacific theater to more-or-less turn themselves into clones of Bernard Montgomery and wait until they had overwhelming superiority before attempting any offensive actions. The official "Germany First" policy would have been seen as support for this course of action.

At that point, US offensives in the Pacific would have been put on hold for probably a year and a half until the first wave of Essex Class Carriers (7 commissioned by end of 1943) along with the Independence Class Light Carriers (all 9 commissioned in 1943), Iowa Class Battleships (2 commissioned in 1943) were available.

Only then (roughly end of 1943, early 1944) could the USN be completely confident that they would not encounter a superior force of IJN ships.

That would set the entire timeline of the Pacific War back by 12-18 months so that when Germany's eventual defeat became undeniably obvious the Japanese still would have held most of their conquered possessions. Some kind of deal might have been possible at that point.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 03:49:45 PM
As it was a close run thing anyway, and as you note, the Japanese "messed up", with some improvement on their part ...

They could have started on another airfield closer down the slot earlier also.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 03:49:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/OxxPmsy.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 07, 2023, 06:42:06 PM
2660 Egptians were building pyramids while Wooly mammoths were still living

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf-xGKTszuE

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2023, 10:53:36 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/364079515_299140659442380_4645230272990581108_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=_zg3uZZER3QAX_ilMw0&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCz8SddhomM-NyLdyIf6ykp2CNWPhDDKLKZ7B3Be7BDWw&oe=64D60C23)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2023, 07:17:49 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/4XiebO1.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2023, 07:20:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nbJLegi.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 08, 2023, 09:15:08 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Collapse of Warsaw Radio Mast (1991)
Upon its completion in 1974, the Warsaw radio mast in Poland became the world's tallest structure. Standing 2,120 feet (646 m) tall, the tower was used for long-wave radio broadcasting. In 1991, the mast underwent repairs to exchange guy wires, the cables used to stabilize the tower. However, the mast bent and then snapped at approximately half its height. It was never rebuilt.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2023, 01:42:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vNQR5sx.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2023, 09:12:22 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Sharon Tate Murdered by Manson "Family" (1969)
Tate, an American actress, was nominated for a Golden Globe award in 1968 for her performance in Valley of the Dolls. In 1969, Charles Manson, leader of a cult called the "Family," sent his followers to Tate's home with orders to "totally destroy everyone in [it], as gruesome as you can." Tate, 8 ½ months pregnant at the time, was murdered along with 5 friends. The "Family" committed several other murders before its members were caught and brought to trial in 1971.


(https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/preview-440/898627a/b48e0d31/Shutterstock_898627a.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 09, 2023, 09:14:30 AM
That one is such a sad and weird story.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2023, 09:53:30 AM
A precursor to Hyperloop travel was tried in the 1870s in New York City. Beach Pneumatic Transit briefly allowed people to travel a short distance in Manhattan in underground, pneumatic passenger capsules.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2023, 09:55:55 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

"Son of Sam" Serial Killer Arrested (1977)
Between 1976 and 1977, New York City was terrorized by a serial killer—later identified as David Berkowitz—who called himself the "Son of Sam" in letters to police. After his arrest in August 1977, Berkowitz confessed to killing six people and wounding seven others in the course of eight shootings. Berkowitz later claimed that he was commanded to kill by a demon who possessed his neighbor's dog.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2023, 03:09:52 PM
The D155W is the first amphibious bulldozer worldwide and was manufactured in 1971. A total of 36 machines were produced. There are still some restored units in operation around the world.

Komatsu and Asunaro Aoki Construction Co., Ltd. announced that the “Underwater Construction of the Future” will be presented at the Expo 2025 Osaka, Kansai, Japan.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/366247634_686992666802060_7940744704724033411_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=rQFJjD6fofoAX86tURG&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCwrhQc6emaBmIQHJQAKYM5byxbtP-20L6TCPKfEJmT4g&oe=64DA98B8)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 05:16:42 PM
Former WBC heavyweight champion Ken Norton, who had three classic fights with Muhammad Ali, breaking Ali’s jaw in winning their first contest, then losing twice, was born in Jacksonville, Illinois #OnThisDay in 1943.

He starred in high school gridiron, basketball and track. He attended Northeast Missouri State University (now Truman State University) on a gridiron scholarship but was hampered by a shoulder injury in his first two seasons and enlisted in the Marines. Norton started boxing while he was in the Marines, compiling an amateur record of 24-2 and winning the All-Marine Heavyweight title three times.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/366528627_771822198284554_8637378991763463110_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=7f8c78&_nc_ohc=o2ueXHxCBzoAX_ff2-8&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAUC9Wd8XLOTCPS42KH36Bt-AYXtW5iuPwsoxztWsG2_g&oe=64DAE6E7)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 06:29:39 PM
Inside an airplane in 1930.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/366653233_616280080622258_4156637637561733574_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd63ad&_nc_ohc=-_olFNNqfmoAX9l3GiZ&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBJYZptiNKyuCTzXfykEnjx7Pl9Nd7eWea7gY0kkZh-EA&oe=64DB058F)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 09:02:52 PM
The M26 Pershing assembly line at the General Motors Grand Blanc tank plant in Michigan, 1945

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/365993246_695093985968619_725175504603751370_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9b3078&_nc_ohc=FSH6AlCfVowAX_UMjga&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDJ3jPVHAS1dmXLZdaoWp0SSqXVBAHwePY1OMFLk8fFTg&oe=64DB7175)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 12, 2023, 08:52:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Cleopatra Commits Suicide (30 BCE)
After likely arranging for her brothers Ptolemy XIII and Ptolemy XIV—to whom she was married, according to custom—to be killed, Cleopatra gained sole rule of Egypt. She later left for Rome with Julius Caesar but returned to Egypt after his assassination, luring Caesar's heir, Mark Antony, into marriage. Octavian, whose sister Antony had previously married, declared war on Cleopatra and Antony and defeated their joint forces at the Battle of Actium.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 12, 2023, 09:29:28 AM
Stuka zeroing in it's forward firing MG's

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/364807191_759855649484064_4520693994933682087_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=7f8c78&_nc_ohc=yev4dRqFi-MAX_RbSGV&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDxEP2M62oS3t-XiW8Rct5lGIEN_8gBmbPBRLoZYJ0D7A&oe=64DBDA78)

Dude in shorts unloading his MG
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2023, 08:35:05 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Michael Servetus Arrested as a Heretic (1553)
Servetus, a Spanish physician who was the first to accurately describe cardiopulmonary circulation, is perhaps best remembered for his theological writings, which ultimately led to his execution. His religious views, particularly his denial of the Trinity, alienated Roman Catholics and Protestants alike and led to his arrest and imprisonment in 1553. He escaped but was soon rearrested, convicted of heresy, and burned at the stake.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 13, 2023, 09:17:41 AM
https://youtu.be/MM6yoQTXWEk?t=959 (https://youtu.be/MM6yoQTXWEk?t=959)

I time stamped it listen to that Number 18


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2023, 06:59:23 AM
The U.S. Secret Service was originally created on July 5, 1865, during the Civil War to fight counterfeiting, which was a huge problem. By the end of the war, between 1/3 and 1/2 of all U.S. paper currency in circulation was counterfeit.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2023, 07:03:02 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US Social Security Act Becomes Law (1935)
During the Great Depression, millions of people dissatisfied with the government response to the poor economy supported a plan to demand a $200 monthly pension for everyone over the age of 60. President Franklin D. Roosevelt responded by establishing a committee on economic security, which recommended legislative action to the US Congress. The resulting act established a national old-age pension system financed by a payroll tax on employers and employees.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 14, 2023, 07:43:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/s8ykjYR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 14, 2023, 08:30:18 AM
Thought I've read that some arsenics smell/taste sweet
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 14, 2023, 08:36:44 AM
The things that taste sweet are rather strange of generally have no common structural features.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 14, 2023, 11:24:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/spQeYkt.png)

This is about 2 miles south of me and about 159 years ago, almost exactly.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 14, 2023, 12:13:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/UsawgbG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2023, 11:22:47 PM
saved by zero
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 07:22:30 AM
Construction of the Panama Canal, Panama, 1912.

The idea of building a canal between the Atlantic and Pacific was first planned by the French civil engineer and builder of the Suez Canal, Ferdinand de Lesseps. The French began work in 1880, but 9 years later the difficulties posed by the terrain, disease and spiralling costs doomed the project to failure. The United States bought the land in 1904 for $40 million, and proceeded to complete the 80 kilometre long canal between 1904 and 1914. The building of the canal cost the lives of an estimated 25,000 workers due to accidents and tropical diseases.

(https://i.imgur.com/enAGqr0.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 15, 2023, 07:53:46 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 
Blind Jack Metcalf (1717)
John Metcalf, popularly known as Blind Jack, was a civil engineer and the first professional road builder of the Industrial Revolution. He lost his sight to a smallpox infection at age six and earned a living in early adulthood as a fiddle player. Though he was unable to see, he swam, played cards, rode horses, and even hunted. In 1765, Parliament passed an act authorizing turnpike building, and he won a contract to build a new road.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 09:07:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/YkCsNvB.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 09:15:11 AM
Video | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=1241081083241762)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 15, 2023, 09:25:31 AM
Wow.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 15, 2023, 09:29:11 AM
Construction of the Panama Canal, Panama, 1912.

The idea of building a canal between the Atlantic and Pacific was first planned by the French civil engineer and builder of the Suez Canal, Ferdinand de Lesseps. The French began work in 1880, but 9 years later the difficulties posed by the terrain, disease and spiralling costs doomed the project to failure. The United States bought the land in 1904 for $40 million, and proceeded to complete the 80 kilometre long canal between 1904 and 1914. The building of the canal cost the lives of an estimated 25,000 workers due to accidents and tropical diseases.



And then "we" gave it away.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 11:15:55 AM
Video | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=1241081083241762)
StarTalk Podcast: Everyday Astrophysics with Neil deGrasse Tyson and Russell Peters - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzQJ8mJxNwg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 01:48:23 PM
On 15 August 1955 Charles Townes, James Gordon and H. J. Zeiger published 'The Maser—New Type of Microwave Amplifier, Frequency Standard, and Spectrometermaser'.

Their device was the forerunner to the laser, using microwaves whereas lasers use visible light.


(https://i.imgur.com/IULyN9t.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 02:36:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cAYjNEf.png)

5 MB of data on 62,500 punch cards in 1955.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 02:56:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/OO3yjBu.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 03:02:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/JGE3UQN.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on August 15, 2023, 04:32:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cAYjNEf.png)

5 MB of data on 62,500 punch cards in 1955.
When I was in undergrad everything was punch cards.  You would have this stack of several hundred cards. pray you didn't make any typos and pray you didn't drop and scatter them before getting the the card reader.  On top of that you had limited Computer Time and if you used it all you had to pay for extra time. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 04:46:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cAYjNEf.png)

5 MB of data on 62,500 punch cards in 1955.
Good thing this was invented in 1956:


(https://i.imgur.com/bf8WzlT.png)

In one sense, I can say I work for the company that invented it. However that sense is not strictly legal, as my company owns the division of the company that invented it, which was spun off, but the parent company that spun it off remains and so they get the legal claim to its invention. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 04:48:03 PM
And now it looks like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/KK4iRqQ.jpg)

And stores over 7 million times as much data.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 15, 2023, 04:58:25 PM
And now it looks like this:

[img width=274.381 height=328]https://i.imgur.com/KK4iRqQ.jpg[/img]

And stores over 7 million times as much data.
Cost has dropped even faster than size.

In lawschool we had a case involving data storage leasing. The case was from the 70's and Ross Perot's company had leased IIRC something like 10mb of storage for many thousands of dollars.

When I was in college (mid 90's) a lot of departments at tOSU had enormous stacks of punchcards that were being used as notepads because the cards were no longer needed.

Also, my first email account was through the university. I didn't have a PC (very few students did) so I had to access it through a computer-lab school computer. However, storage was still an issue so the University wouldn't store your messages after you downloaded them. Consequently, you had to bring a floppy disc with you in order to read/send email.

The Iomega Zip Disc was a HUMONGOUS improvement for thus for two reasons:


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 05:15:46 PM
Cost has dropped even faster than size.

In lawschool we had a case involving data storage leasing. The case was from the 70's and Ross Perot's company had leased IIRC something like 10mb of storage for many thousands of dollars.

When I was in college (mid 90's) a lot of departments at tOSU had enormous stacks of punchcards that were being used as notepads because the cards were no longer needed.

Also, my first email account was through the university. I didn't have a PC (very few students did) so I had to access it through a computer-lab school computer. However, storage was still an issue so the University wouldn't store your messages after you downloaded them. Consequently, you had to bring a floppy disc with you in order to read/send email.

The Iomega Zip Disc was a HUMONGOUS improvement for thus for two reasons:
  • It had LOTS more storage, 100mb instead of 1.44, and
  • It was MUCH more durable. Zip Discs were contained in a hard plastic case that could take some punishment.

LOL... I was just barely behind you... College 96-00. 

Had my own PC, but then I was already a computer geek and going into electrical engineering, so that was pretty much a necessity. 

And I was *all* about the Zipdrive... One of the engineering labs had them on their PC, and had a BLAZING fast internet connection, so guess how I built my MP3 collection at the time :57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 15, 2023, 06:17:07 PM
Undergrad from 90-94 for me.  Honestly it was a pretty golden time to be an electrical engineering student, and later an electrical engineer.

At UT all electrical engineering students had an email address, and we could access our accounts via the Vax dumb terminals or Sun Sparcstations in the main CS computer lab.  The Sparcstations had a phone jack where a special phone handset could be plugged in and you could use the internet to place a call to someone else with the same setup, the earliest VoIP I ever encountered.  I had a friend at Princeton and we used to talk all the time.  Well, talk, and design and operate MUDs.

But my sophomore year I used some of my scholarship stipend to buy a PC, it was an off-brand (Packard Bell) with a screaming Intel 486 DX2 66 MHz CPU, 8M RAM, 500M hard drive, and any other ridiculous, dated spec of the time.  But I was at least able to dial-in to UT's servers via my lightning quick 14.4Kbaud modem, and do some of my assignments, check email, plus, you know, play online games... like MUDs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 06:25:06 PM
Wow, undergrad 1972-1975 here.  029 card punch
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 06:28:42 PM
Undergrad from 90-94 for me.  Honestly it was a pretty golden time to be an electrical engineering student, and later an electrical engineer.
Any good stories from 94-00 in the industry? 

I obviously entered the industry--especially in Silicon Valley--right as the roller coaster was cresting the peak and then going HARD downhill... So most of my initial entry to the industry was pain. 

But every sales guy I know who was around in those late-90s years talk about how insane it was. It was a height of an industry that I don't know I'll ever see.

Wondering if you had some of that or not...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 15, 2023, 07:32:33 PM
Why would he tell you? Ya might move there
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2023, 07:54:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/4o03s8K.png)

This was a wedding/honeymoon destination back in the day.  When I was a kid, the area had really gone downhill.  The state bought up some land and made a nice state park and today the village is somewhat "bacK", the SP is quite nice, they built stairs going down with something like 600 steps into the canyon and then a bridge across the river.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 16, 2023, 02:20:30 PM
LOL... I was just barely behind you... College 96-00.

Had my own PC, but then I was already a computer geek and going into electrical engineering, so that was pretty much a necessity.
This is something that has always fascinated me, the speed at which computers became prevalent.  

I graduated HS in 1993 which was just before the release of Netscape Navigator.  Back then I knew a couple people who had PC's in their houses but with barely any internet* it was only worthwhile if you were running a business doing payroll or something like that.  A lot of people had word processors which at your age (just three years younger), you probably barely even remember.  

A couple quick anecdotes:
When I moved in to my dorm freshman year at Ohio State in September, 1993 I was on a floor that (guessing, this was 30 years ago) had about 70 guys living on it.  Out of all 70 of us, ONE guy had a PC.  Then there were two or three word processors.  

My brother is 5-1/2 years younger than me and was six grades behind me in school.  In September, 1999 I helped move him into his dorm at Ohio State.  He lived in a room that was like a suite with four guys.  They had two bedrooms and a shared common area and bathroom.  Between them those four guys had FIVE computers (all four had PC's and one also had a laptop).  So between 1993 and 1999 the ratio of Computers to Students that I anecdotally observed increased from 1:70 to 5:4.  That is insane.  

Second anecdote, chatrooms:
One evening during my sophomore year at Ohio State some friends of mine and I went to visit a girl I had known in HS and her roommates.  We (guys) were all sophomores and the girls were all freshman, ONE year younger.  So we get there and they are in something on AOL called a "chatroom".  We (remember, only ONE year older) had literally never heard of such a thing and couldn't figure out why anyone would spend time in one.  

*Pre-Netscape Internet:
Netscape was a modern-ish browser.  If you could make an early-90's version of it work today, a modern person would recognize the basic arrangement.  Prior to netscape (ie, when I was in HS) there was an internet but only serious computer geeks were on it.  There were no search engines and the interface was just text on black screen so it was useless unless you REALLY knew what you were doing and even then it was only somewhat useful compared to today's internet.  
And I was *all* about the Zipdrive... One of the engineering labs had them on their PC, and had a BLAZING fast internet connection, so guess how I built my MP3 collection at the time :57:
That zip disc was a gigantic improvement.  

Ohio State's email program when I was in school was I think called Eudora or something like that.  I mentioned that you HAD to have a disc in order to access it.  That was because storage was expensive enough that the University refused to store your incoming or outgoing messages after you received or sent them.  To keep that off of their storage they dumped your incoming messages to your disc then deleted them from their servers to free up space.  Similarly, your outgoing messages sent from your disc to the University's servers then out and the University immediately deleted them.  

If you lost or damaged your disc (this happened more than once to me) all of your old messages were just gone.  You had to get a new disc and then when you signed in you'd get your new messages but you would NOT get anything that had previously been downloaded to your old disc.  

The other thing was that when you were "ON" your email, it wasn't "live".  I would go to the computer lab, put my disc in, and hit "send/retrieve".  Any outgoing messages that I hadn't already sent would be sent and any incoming messages that I hadn't previously received would be loaded to my disc.  Then when I was "on" my email, I was just working on my disc.  So if I had a message from you, a message from @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) , a message from my dad (my brother had gotten him onto email), and a message from my brother, I'd answer but my answers weren't "sent" they were just pushed to the "outbox" on my disc.  Then, before I left I needed to remember to hit "send/retrieve" again so that those four messages would send.  More than once I forgot that step and then went back a day or two later and couldn't understand why someone I had typed an email to hadn't replied yet.  Duh, it was because I had typed but not sent my email.  

Even if something like this still existed, a modern programmer would obviously include a prompt at log-out to remind you that you had unsent messages in your outbox but back then there was no such thing.  If you forgot to hit "send/retrieve" and just logged out your messages just sat on your disc until the next time you logged in and hit send/retrieve.  If you lost or damaged your disc in the meantime, your messages just disappeared.  

Initially I was doing all of this on the old 3.5" 1.44mb floppy discs.  1.44mb actually sounded like a lot to us back then but if you were relatively active on email it filled up pretty quickly and you'd have to go through and purge old messages to make room for new ones.  

The other problem with the 3.5" floppy discs was that they were NOT very robust.  Since you had to carry your email disc with you all the time I knew a lot of people at tOSU who either lost or damaged theirs.  I remember when I first saw an Iomega Zip Disc.  I was at Long's Bookstore (famous long-term store across the street from the Ohio State campus) and next to the 3.5" floppy discs they had this thing that was roughly the same size but had a hard shell case and held 70x the data.  I think I paid $150 for mine and used it for my email for the rest of my time at Ohio State.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 16, 2023, 02:26:09 PM
The context of this discussion is a good place for this observation:
When I was in HS (1989-1993) cellphones existed but mostly only VERY highly paid sales types had them because they cost thousands of dollars to buy and hundreds of dollars per month to use.  

The internet existed but as a practical matter it didn't.  It was there for a few computer geeks but it had no bearing whatsoever on the larger popular culture.  

In a way I think that my HS experience was more similar to people 25+ years older than me than it was to people 5-10 years younger.  By the time I graduated from college in 1997 I had my own PC AND my own cellphone.  When I started HS in 1989 it would have been unthinkable for a 21 year old who hadn't started a job yet to have those things.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2023, 02:41:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Eptf74p.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2023, 02:45:54 PM
I began college in 1984 and finished in 1994. Tons of changes in those years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2023, 02:49:57 PM
We had an Apple II+ on a roller cart when I started work in 1980.  The section shared it.  It had both paper tape and a casette deck for data storage.  There was a program called Visicalc which was fairly useful, it was like an early Excel.  I wish I had bought some Apple stock back then ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on August 16, 2023, 03:05:27 PM
Graduated HS in '94.  Never even heard of the internet back then, only vaguely aware that there was something called "the information superhighway".  Didn't really know what that meant.  Never heard of email.  

College freshman in fall '94, teacher/professor is writing her syllabus on the marker board (not chalk!) and she writes her email address.  something.something@something.edu.  I remember thinking "what the hell is email"?  And why so many @, never used it before the mid 90's.  

My HS buddy had a sweet 486 computer at that time, but not many people I knew had computers, other than business owners.  Seems like we dialed up a few BBS, but there wasn't much to it.  Between '94/96 almost everybody I knew got a PC with Windows.  I remember Win 95 being a really big deal.  A few people in the 80's/early 90's had PC's with DOS, and Win 3.1 was neat.  I never knew anybody with a Mac. But there was so many PC's back in the 80's/90's like the Commodore 64 and all the Atari machines and Tandy's that nothing seemed to dominate.  

First year at A&M '96 I didn't have a PC when I started but I had one middle of the first semester or maybe early 2nd semester, Packard Bell with a Pentium 133 MHZ and 1 MB video Ram.  Zip disks became a really big thing, I had an external (still have it in fact).  

I never had email until I started at A&M.  You could log in from a terminal to some kind of VAX system, and there was a program (simple text based) you can read and send emails.  I don't recall needing a floppy disk.  I remember seeing this girl who lived in a dorm, and they had some kind of shared room on the floor with the terminals (monochrome monitor and keyboard, not even sure there was a mouse) and I logged in and opened my email and a buddy who was in the Navy had sent me an email a few months before I didn't even know it because I had never used it.  Wish I still had that email.  

The university had a dial in modem bank that you could call (included with tuition) and get on the internet, even in '96.  I do remember that you could get a client, like Eudora and one other one I can't recall the name of, and use email from your PC.  The university had a T1 connection, or something, and it was a big deal at the time.  People who lived in dorms had something called ethernet.  One guy had a CD burner and you could toss him a few bucks and some blank CD's and he could make you a playlist. 

A&M at the time had computer labs all over, Win 95 computers, mostly 486 and early Pentium and you could log in anywhere and retrieve your desktop and files, a lot like today in my company.  It was just rows and rows of desks with Gateway or Dell computers.  Some later had zip drives, and we used Napster and pirated the hell out of some music ('99).  

But the speed of all of this happening was indeed fast.  I remember I had a chemistry class in my 1st or 2nd semester that you had to do your homework on the internet.  It was tough, because all the units etc had to be just right.  Within a few years you couldn't imagine life without the internet.   

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on August 16, 2023, 03:41:56 PM
I got you all beat

I went to UT from 67 to 71 and I still remember a very large showing of the first electronic calculators

big crowd of students mesmerized watching demonstration of how they work
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2023, 04:16:24 PM
The Wild Bunch  - Damn Right,Butch and Sundance may not have murdered anyone but the rest of them seem to rack up some numbers.Unbelievable the loot the made out with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPIhCGrgGrw
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2023, 04:20:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/YkCsNvB.png)
I'd drive a FORD at those prices
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2023, 04:22:07 PM
Calculators, yeah, I recall the big RPN (HP) vs algebraic (TI) controversy.

I started with an SR-10 that had exponents, but no logs.  I think it was $125 which is about $400 today?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2023, 04:38:27 PM
I still use the HP-20S from college to this day. I liked it so much I bought two more back when they were cheap. I'm on the second one now. Probably set for life at this point.

(https://i.imgur.com/0wvrf0V.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2023, 05:30:19 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ray Chapman Fatally Injured by Pitch to the Head (1920)
For the entirety of his Major League Baseball career, Ray Chapman was a shortstop for Cleveland. He set a team record for stolen bases that would stand for decades, but his career was tragically cut short when he was hit in the head by a pitch thrown by Yankees hurler Carl Mays. According to eyewitnesses, Chapman likely never even saw the ball. He is the only Major League Baseball player to have died as a result of an injury received in a game.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2023, 05:50:59 PM
RIP,Chappy,Tribe won the Series that Season
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on August 16, 2023, 05:54:51 PM
We had an Apple II+ on a roller cart when I started work in 1980.  The section shared it.  It had both paper tape and a casette deck for data storage.  There was a program called Visicalc which was fairly useful, it was like an early Excel.  I wish I had bought some Apple stock back then ...
Getting an Apple II+ at work with Visicalc was exciting.  Using format code to try to get it to print out a certain way was always fun.  We also had a Wang VP with a 75mg hard drive the size of a washing machine.  We upgraded in 82 I think to a Wang VS with 2 300mg drive both about the size of a washing machine. I bought a Commodore 64 with a monitor sometime in the early 80s it used tapes to load programs and had a 300 baud modem which I used to get on Compuserve, it was AOL before AOL but everything was totally text.  I upgrade my computer with a floppy drive as soon as it was available. Early days of computer were fun. Used to be able to completely take care of just about anything. Now I don't know half of what is going on. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on August 16, 2023, 05:56:55 PM
Calculators, yeah, I recall the big RPN (HP) vs algebraic (TI) controversy.

I started with an SR-10 that had exponents, but no logs.  I think it was $125 which is about $400 today?
I bought an SR-50a for about $200. Had all the fun scientific functions.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2023, 07:45:39 PM
I have an abacus that my great-great-great grand dad brought back from the orient after getting shanqhaied - does that count?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2023, 08:49:03 AM
I bought an SR-50a for about $200. Had all the fun scientific functions. 
I got one my second year in college.  In HS, we had Picket Log Log metal slide rules.  I may still have that somewhere packed away.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on August 17, 2023, 09:44:51 AM
I got you all beat

I went to UT from 67 to 71 and I still remember a very large showing of the first electronic calculators

big crowd of students mesmerized watching demonstration of how they work
Jesus, and I say this with respect, you're really fucking old ! :72:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2023, 09:49:07 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PZdAM2M.png)

A Confederate soldier stationed at Cumberland Gap in 1861 remembered a natural phenomenon that still takes place today and wrote about it in his official history of his regiment.

"A dense fog came drifting down the mountain hunting a place to cross. It was so heavy it could not rise above the mountain top and sought an opening in the Gap. On reaching the Gap it began pouring itself through, and so dense was it, for an hour the sun could not be seen, and part of the time we could not see an object ten feet ahead of us." - William Worsham, 19th Tennessee Infantry
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on August 17, 2023, 10:32:20 AM
I got one my second year in college.  In HS, we had Picket Log Log metal slide rules.  I may still have that somewhere packed away. 
I still have my slide rule. Not sure I remember how to use it. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2023, 02:29:37 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hro8aAg.png)

I refuse to say ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 17, 2023, 02:43:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hro8aAg.png)

I refuse to say ...
Why? Does it light your fuse?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 17, 2023, 02:50:47 PM
Why? Does it light your fuse?
I remember replacing those
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on August 17, 2023, 05:14:53 PM
Hell, I still replace some from time to time (water well and pumping systems).  They're not that rare.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 17, 2023, 05:24:21 PM
yup, I see them from time to time
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2023, 10:07:20 AM
On August 10, 1944, Red Barrett of the Boston Braves threw only 58 pitches to shut out the Cincinnati Reds 2-0 at Crosley Field. He threw not only the shortest night game in history at one hour and fifteen minutes, but also the complete game with the fewest pitches ever.
Several AP / UPI newspaper articles about this particular game never made mention of the amazing pitch-count record set by Red Barrett. In 1951, a fan asked The Sporting News about the least number of pitches thrown and received the following reply:
"On August 10, 1944, Charlie (Red) Barrett, then with the Boston Braves, used only 58 pitches in beating Bucky Walters of Cincinnati, 2-0. There are no authentic records on the fewest balls pitched in a game since the beginning of professional baseball, but Barrett's 58 is the lowest we have on our files."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 18, 2023, 10:43:16 AM
We had an Apple II+ on a roller cart when I started work in 1980.  The section shared it.  It had both paper tape and a casette deck for data storage.  There was a program called Visicalc which was fairly useful, it was like an early Excel.  I wish I had bought some Apple stock back then ...
I used Visicalc as my first spreadsheet when I started work in 1986 on an IBM model AT with no internal storage. 2 6'' floppy drive's, 1 for the Visicalc program and the other for your data. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2023, 11:15:15 AM
My first computer was a Timex Sinclair 1000.  1K of memory and it was shared with the video memory, so you better make sure you watch your addresses or you'd overwrite your screen and lose I/O capability. I bought it used from a friend for $40.

(https://i.imgur.com/4RaxkWS.png)

My second computer was an Atari 400, with optional cassette tape storage drive.  I paid $80 for it new, using my lawn-mowing money.  This was a massive upgrade to 16K RAM, and the capability of using ROM cartridges.

(https://i.imgur.com/ylLOakZ.jpg)


And then finally my parents bought the family an Apple IIc, although they never used it for much.  It was pretty much all mine.  It had 128K of RAM, I thought I was in Heaven.

(https://i.imgur.com/FamA1wY.png)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 18, 2023, 11:30:41 AM
Yeah, parents got a Commodore 64 when I was 5. They had no clue what to do with it. So I used it for games (Solar Fox and Frogger were my faves) based on cartridges, but we also had a cassette tape drive. My buddy and I also would use it for silly simple BASIC programs. 

Parents upgraded to IBM XT when I was 7. Used mainly for word processing and their tax stuff, and I would use it for a couple of ASCII-based games, and then later we'd play Ultima V. We also got a bootleg copy of Leisure Suit Larry, and their "age" restriction was just asking a few trivia questions at the start of the game that only adults would know--but my buddy and I being smart nerds could get through it just fine. 

Eventually they got the 486 that was the home PC until I left for college. My dad (an architect) always intended to learn AutoCAD but never did, so it was decently powered since it was supposed to be capable of running that. I recall going through Win 3.11, OS/2, Win95, OS/2 Warp, then back to Windows. Every time my dad learned how to navigate the OS I'd change it lol... That was also the computer running the BBS I set up... I was such a nerd that I paid for a 4th phone line (we had house phone, fax line, my dad's business line since he was self-employed, and then my dedicated computer line)... So I can I've been using computer message boards for 30 years now given that I was running a message board through the BBS and hooked into FIDOnet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FidoNet) at the time. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on August 18, 2023, 11:35:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QT0sYbV.png)

My first computer IBM AT 1985

I still have it


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 18, 2023, 11:36:05 AM
Eighty-one years after she lay burning and capsized in the New York harbor, the French SS Normandie still holds the record as the most powerful steam turbo-electric-propelled passenger ship ever built. She is considered one of the greatest of ocean liners in history, a floating palace of Art Deco majesty so dazzling, they nicknamed her the “Ship of Light” similar to Paris as the ‘”City of Light”. The gilded first class dining hall was longer than the Hall of Mirrors at Versailles and guests included Ernest Hemingway, Colette, Fred Astaire, Walt Disney and even the von Trapp family singers, who all sailed aboard the Normandie during her career of 139 westbound transatlantic crossings from Le Havre, France to New York City. She was, for a brief time, Queen of the seven seas, before war, negligence and possibly sabotage, sealed her fate in 1942.

(https://scontent.foma1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/367415591_254415314128220_5235211303738387321_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=opNv9pCHrEkAX8pEF4J&_nc_ht=scontent.foma1-2.fna&oh=00_AfAL_FFhaQSzMqE00SpxPT7beMY7bLpTb37pdI4Hbf0TNQ&oe=64E447B8)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2023, 11:38:16 AM
Yeah I've been posting on BBSs since the late 80s, so I guess 35 years or so, now.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 07:08:44 AM
The first home of the Atlanta Falcons was one of those multi-purpose venues called Atlanta Fulton County Stadium.  It actually opened back in 1965 for a cost of just slightly more than $14 million.  The Falcons shared the use of it with their Major League Baseball counterparts, the Atlanta Braves.  Like most of the "cookie-cutter" stadiums during the 1970s, Atlanta's stadium did not compare with the modern facilities that you see today.  It had a natural grass field all throughout its 32 years of use.  Moreover, it only had five private suites, and a seating capacity of just 60,763 for football games.  It was demolished in 1997 (at a cost of $66 million).

(https://i.imgur.com/OOm5VFB.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 19, 2023, 07:46:06 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

USS Constitution Defeats HMS Guerrière (1812)
The USS Constitution, better known as "Old Ironsides," is perhaps the most famous vessel in the history of the US Navy. One of the first frigates built for the Navy, the Constitution saw action in several wars and defeated the British frigate HMS Guerrière during the War of 1812. Later condemned as unseaworthy, the ship was saved from dismantling by public sentiment aroused by Oliver Wendell Holmes' poem "Old Ironsides."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 08:58:51 AM
Graf Zeppelin under construction 1940:

(https://i.imgur.com/lZC9rdf.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 07:42:57 AM
Double Nobel Prize laureate Linus Pauling is the only person to have received two unshared Nobel Prizes.
Pauling was a chemist who lived on the frontiers of science. Working in the 1930s, he was among the pioneers who used quantum mechanics to understand and describe chemical bonding. His interests and contributions were many – he published the structure of the alpha helix, investigated sickle cell anaemia as the first molecular disease, and was awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1954.
After the bombing of Hiroshima, Pauling turned his attention to a different cause: peace. He campaigned vehemently against nuclear weapons and spearheaded a petition to ban nuclear testing. His efforts led to a second prize – the 1962 Nobel Peace Prize "for his fight against the nuclear arms race between East and West."
(https://i.imgur.com/YWNUtxZ.png)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 09:05:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/OueBArl.png)

Today in 1962 Ringo Starr replaces Pete Best as Beatles' drummer, first official concert two days later
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 09:45:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/wUAcWlW.png)

August 2, 1997
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 09:51:00 AM
The Braves left and the area turned into a hotbed of development.

(https://i.imgur.com/s2ip6FK.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 11:49:17 AM
The SR-71, needed to be refuelled approximately every hour. Refueling was tricky, but SR 71 pilots were always up to the challenge.
Usually, refueling was the first thing that they did after takeoff. Under some circumstances, while flying from Kadena Air Force Base in Okinawa, they would takeoff with enough fuel for the entire mission. No refueling necessary it was called a Yo-Yo. but this was a maintenance nightmare. A few of our missions required the SR-71 to accelerate to Mach 3+ right after takeoff with a 65,000-pound fuel load. The Yo-Yo procedure had the crew chief completely refuel the plane to full tanks of 80,000 pounds of fuel. Then, with the nitrogen pressurization system working, they de-fueled 15,000 pounds of JP-7, ending up with a 65,000-pound fuel load and a plane that was capable of going immediately to Mach 3+.” The SR 71 crewmembers called it a “rocket ride”   because everything had to be done quickly. 
  Refueling presented special problems: visibility was poor due to the triangular forward window, and the helmet associated with the pressure suit caused undesired reflections. The receptacle (which received the fuel) was aft of the cockpit; therefore, the SR-71 had to fly under- neath the tanker. Normally, one would take on about 70,000 pounds or 11,000 gallons of JP7 fuel.
Typically, refueling took place at about 25,000 feet. As the weight increased and the air speed had to be held down to accommodate the slower tanker, the aircraft became thrust-limited; that is, drag increased as it approached the stall speed for this unique aircraft (there was no additional thrust available without afterburner). At that point, the pilot had to move one throttle slightly into the after- burner range to hold position.
Using one afterburner required the pilot to counter the asymmetry with rudder or just tolerate some sideways flight. Interestingly, the pilots developed the left afterburner technique so the aircraft would yaw slightly to the right. This way, only the left quarter panel had defogged air, and one could get that benefit if needed. Refueling was an intense effort for the pilot and was required two to four times for each mission.
Source: Rich Graham, Aloysius Casey.
 ~ Linda Sheffield Miller

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 20, 2023, 11:55:09 AM
The Braves left and the area turned into a hotbed of development.

(https://i.imgur.com/s2ip6FK.jpg)
I'd tell the Browns to leave if the results were the same and put the money back into the county.And take that shady sleaze ball Haslam with them 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 03:30:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sTNOh06.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 03:31:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZTDFs9h.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 04:06:11 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eaWgE77.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2023, 07:37:29 AM
Even the Founders complained about the dog days of summer. Here is John Adams to Abigail Adams, writing from Philadelphia on August 14, 1777:
"My dearest Friend
We are still parching under the fierce Heats of Dog days. It is agreed, by most People, that so long and so intense a Heat has scarcely been known. The Day before Yesterday, Dr. Ewing an eminent Philosopher as well as Mathematician, and Divine told me, the Spirit in his Glass, was at 91 in his cool Room, and from thence he concludes that it was above an hundred abroad in the Shade, because he says it is generally ten degrees lower, in his cool Room, than it is in the Shade out of Doors. Yesterday, it was at 94, abroad in the Shade. He placed his Thermometer, against a Post which had been heated by the Sun, and the Spirit arose to an 100, but removing it to another Place, and suspending it at a distance from any warm Object and the Spirit subsided and settled at 94.—How we shall live through these Heats I dont know.
If Howes Army is at Sea, his Men between Decks will suffer, beyond Expression. Persons, here, who have been at Sea, upon this Coast, at this Season of the Year, say, the Heat is more intollerable, on Shipboard than on Land. There is no Comfort to be had any where, and the Reflection of the Sun Rays from the Deck, are insufferable.
I wish this Wiseacre may continue to coast about untill an equinoctial Storm shall overtake him. Such a Thing would make fine Sport for his Fleet.
The Summer is consuming, and there is not Time enough left, for accomplishing many Things. If he should land tomorrow, it would take him three Weeks to reach Philadelphia. On the Jersey Side of the Delaware, is an ugly Road for him—many Rivers, Bridges, Causeys, Morasses, by breaking up of which, a Measure which is intended, and for which Preparations are made, his Army might be obstructed, puzzled and confounded in their March. His Army cannot proceed with­out many Horses, Waggons, and Cannon with their Carriages, for the Passage of which he must make new Bridges and Causeys, which would consume much Time, besides that he would be exposed, to the Militia and to the regular Army. On the other side the River there are several Streams and one large River to cross—the Schuylkill. And We have many fine Fire ships to annoy his Fleet. It would be happy for Us if he should aim at this Place, Because it would give Us an Opportunity of exerting the whole Force of the Continent against him. The Militia of the Jerseys, Pensilvania, Delaware and Maryland, would cooperate with Washington here—those of N.Y. and N. England with Gates.
Writing this Letter, at Six o Clock in the Morning in my cool Chamber has thrown me into a profuse and universal sweat."
Unfortunately, things were about to get hotter. British General William Howe landed at Head of Elk, Maryland on August 25, some fifty miles from Philadelphia. On September 26, 1777, the British army marched into the city, beginning an occupation that lasted until the following spring.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2023, 07:58:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/spSUWho.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2023, 08:47:47 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Nat Turner's Slave Rebellion Begins (1831)
Turner, born into slavery and sold three times as a child, led a slave uprising in Virginia that resulted in the deaths of about 55 white people. A deeply religious man, he experienced visions he interpreted as divine in nature and which convinced him that his mission in life was to lead slaves out of bondage. He and many of his followers were caught and hanged, and many more Blacks were killed in retaliation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 01:44:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/1gjBEdQ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 23, 2023, 10:19:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/eaWgE77.png)

Dairy Queens didn't look like that here in Texico, they were always short, square buildings, like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/IvcmHIQ.jpg)

Or this:

(https://i.imgur.com/FqkQmuD.jpg)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 10:31:00 AM
we had both types
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 10:31:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/1gjBEdQ.png)
helluva blocker
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 10:46:04 AM
When we won a game in Little League, the coach would take us to DQ.  The one in our town was flat and simple.  I don't think they had burgers and such back then.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 23, 2023, 11:06:53 AM
When we won a game in Little League, the coach would take us to DQ.  The one in our town was flat and simple.  I don't think they had burgers and such back then.


I've heard there are DQs in the midwest that only sell ice cream treats.

Down here, for my entire lifetime, they've been burger joints that also had ice cream treats.  But my memory only goes back to the late 70s as far as restaurant menus and such.  It's possible they were something else, earlier.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 11:11:43 AM
They may have had hot dogs back when in the SE.  I vaguely recall going there aside from baseball, but it was rare.  They had this screen window they'd slide open to take your money and give out the food.

I remember having gas credit cards, and maybe a Sears card.  I think I got my first "Visa" in 1976.  It had a $200 credit limit.  Each major store had its own CC.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 11:22:32 AM
DQs were only in the big cities
along with the A & W root beer place

we'd get ice cream in the little mom & pop places in the small towns

not very often be cause it was expensive
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2023, 07:59:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uR5KvPR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 08:21:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

British Troops Burn the White House (1814)
During the War of 1812, a year after US troops burned Canadian Parliament Buildings in the Battle of York, British troops retaliated by marching on Washington, DC, and setting fire to its public buildings—including the Capitol and the White House. According to some accounts, First Lady Dolley Madison refused to leave the White House until just moments before British troops arrived, gathering valuables, documents, and other items of importance
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2023, 08:56:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/vzv6TVJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 10:04:26 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

New York Sun Publishes "The Great Moon Hoax" (1835)
"The Great Moon Hoax" was a series of six New York Sun articles discussing the supposed discovery of life on the Moon. The discovery—allegedly made using a massive telescope—was falsely attributed to famed astronomer Sir John Herschel. In the articles, the author claims that unicorns, bipedal beavers, bat-like humanoids, and other fantastic animals inhabit a forest- and ocean-covered Moon. The series was likely intended to boost the paper's sales
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 10:49:29 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/369915016_847272310294474_1890608814101026528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=An5rEyLv8owAX9QvVI3&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCg4zb130rzacScsdP6ObYA31Z2Uh0Tmk1ZZ_onD-eJyQ&oe=64EDFFE6)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 08:12:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen Adopted (1789)
Adopted by France's National Assembly in 1789, the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen contains the principles that inspired the French Revolution. Influenced by the American Declaration of Independence, it serves as the preamble to France's Constitution of 1791. It guarantees rights to liberty, property, security, and resistance to oppression, as well as freedom of speech and of the press.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 11:33:07 AM
Nicolas Léonard Sadi Carnot, the son of high-ranking military leader Lazare Nicholas Marguerite Carnot, was born in Paris in 1796. His father resigned from the army in 1807 to educate Nicolas and his brother Hippolyte—both received a broad, home-based education that included science, art, language, and music.
In 1812, the 16-year-old Nicolas Carnot was admitted to the highly esteemed École Polytechnique in Paris. His instructors included Joseph Louis Gay-Lussac, Siméon Denis Poisson, and André-Marie Ampère; fellow students included famous future scientists Claude-Louis Navier, and Gaspard-Gustave Coriolis. During his time in school, Carnot developed a special interest in the theory of gases and solving industrial engineering problems. After graduation, Carnot entered the French Army as a military engineer and served until 1814. In 1821, he visited his father, who had moved to Magdeburg, Germany. Lazare had seen a steam engine that had come to the city and father and son spent much of their time together discussing theories about how steam engines worked.
Carnot returned to Paris, excited to develop scientific theories about steam engines and heat; no researchers had yet discovered the fundamental scientific principles behind their operation. Most scientists believed in caloric theory, which maintained heat was an invisible liquid that flowed when it was out of balance. Carnot wanted to use his research to improve the efficiency of steam engines, which was only a meager 3% at the time.
Carnot had two key questions about heat engines he wanted to answer: Was the work available from a heat source unlimited? And can the efficiency of heat engines be improved by replacing steam with a different fluid or gas?
In 1824, Carnot published Reflections on the Motive Power of Fire, which detailed his research and presented a well-reasoned theoretical treatment for the perfect (but unattainable) heat engine, now known as the Carnot cycle. In the first stage of his model, the piston moves downward while the engine absorbs heat from a source and gas begins to expand. In the second stage, as the piston continues to move downward, the heat is removed; the gas still expands but this time through a temperature drop. In the third stage, the piston starts to rise and the gas is compressed again, driving off heat (isothermal compression). In the fourth stage, the piston continues to move upward, the cooled gas is compressed, and the temperature rises.
Carnot realized that the conduction of heat between parts of the engine at different temperatures had to be eliminated to maximize efficiency. He also introduced the concept of reversibility, whereby motive power can be used to produce the temperature difference in the engine. Also some of the theories he determined laid the groundwork for the discovery of the second law of thermodynamics.
Carnot died during a cholera epidemic that swept Paris in 1832, at the age of 36. Fearing they were contaminated, many of his writings were buried with him at his funeral—very little was saved. Unfortunately he did not live to see his work revered by other scientists. His ideas were incorporated into the thermodynamic theories proposed by Rudolf Clausius and William Thomson in the early 1850s. Rudolf Diesel also drew on Carnot's theories when he designed the diesel engine in 1893.
With his multiple scientific contributions, including the Carnot heat engine, Carnot theorem, and Carnot efficiency, Nicolas Léonard Sadi Carnot is often described as the "Father of Thermodynamics." His concept of the idealized heat engine led to the development of a thermodynamic system that could be quantified, a key success that enabled many of the future discoveries that lay ahead.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2023, 08:56:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
The Peace Palace Opens in The Hague (1913)
Often called "the seat of international law," the Peace Palace houses the Permanent Court of Arbitration, the Hague Academy of International Law, and the International Court of Justice, which is the primary judicial body of the United Nations. The palace was conceived in the early 20th century and was funded by American industrialist and philanthropist Andrew Carnegie. To show their support for the project, many nations sent gifts for use or display in the palace
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2023, 09:59:31 AM
The studies for the Anglo-French Concorde supersonic airliner started in 1954, and France and the UK signed a treaty establishing the development project on Nov. 29,1962. Construction of the six prototypes began in February 1965, and the first flight took off from Toulouse on Mar. 2, 1969.

Powered by four Rolls-Royce/Snecma Olympus 593 turbojets with variable engine intake ramps, and afterburner for take-off and acceleration to supersonic speed, the Concorde had a speed of Mach 2.04 at an altitude of 60,000 ft.

But, as far as is known not a single photo of Concorde flying at Mach 2 exists..

‘Concorde seems cute and familiar because it was used for transportation and designed in the 60s, but it was an absolute beast. Supercruising at Mach 2.0 for hours to traverse the Atlantic, it could effectively outrun a nuclear blast and catch up with the sun,’ says Andrei Kucharavy, an aviation expert, on Quora.


‘While operational, it was effectively impossible to intercept to all the jet fighters of its generation barring a stripped Electric Lightning pushed to the limit – including F-15, F-16 or F-104. Just to take the only known supersonic picture of Concorde [HERE you find the full story of the only known supersonic photo of Concorde], a completely stripped RAF Tornado had to be pushed to its limit to be able to rendez-vous with a super-cruising Concorde. And yet in the end Concorde had to slow down to Mach 1.5 to allow for a good picture to be taken.

‘Think about this picture. A state-of-the-art fighter jet, specialized interceptor, stripped to the bones and pushed to its maximum is rapidly running out of fuel, operational altitude and range. In the meantime, about a 100 people inside the aircraft it was trying to rendez-vous with are being served champagne, as it slowly climbed to its operational altitude and accelerated towards its cruising speed that it would maintain for the next couple of hours.


‘Even the F-22, developed almost 50 years after the Concorde and the reigning undisputed air supremacy fighter can only supercruise at Mach 1.8 and its top speed – Mach 2.2 – is the same as for a Tornado. If Concorde was still flying, it is unlikely it would be able to photograph it at Mach 2.0. Even if the Soviets back at the time were willing to lend the Mig-25/Mig-31, it is not entirely clear if it would be able to sustain the level flight with Concorde at Mach 2.0 for long enough to have a picture taken.’

Could the SR-71 Blackbird reconnaisance aircraft have gotten a picture of it easily, as it cruised at up to Mach 3?

Kucharavy explains;

‘Realistically, Mach 2.0 at 60 000 feet is well within the operational envelope of an SR-71, but it’s more the logistics of a double refueling that would have been a problem. SR-71 take-off logistics were quite something. Right after the take-off it had a couple of minutes to get to 25 000 ft and find a tanker and then had at most 2.400 NM to get do the round trip. Significantly shorter if it performed an excursion into the supersonic range and used its afterburners. I believe for a NY-London traverse an SR-71 had to refuel once in the middle, but for the rest of it sustained close to the Mach 3.2. So a parallel flight with Concorde was not out of question, but definitely would have been quite a mission to organize.’
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2023, 02:03:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sUrixl7.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2023, 11:34:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/GzxDS79.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2023, 12:27:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/3X4bUye.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 29, 2023, 12:30:05 PM
1982 was a good year

soph at UNL

Huskers robbed at Penn St.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2023, 03:22:08 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/rzG6Ez6.png)

This is labeled a Polish Perturbulator with Disc Option
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2023, 01:41:07 AM
Martha Smith, John Belushi and Mary Louise Weller in Animal House (1978).

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/364675858_821885652637471_5499955535750730696_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=CF-GLg7ghkIAX-ZxFv6&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=00_AfC8364i4l5K2tGEWJ-lj1RW_jhHOFjLJwi1CDop-0DF6A&oe=64F37D24)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2023, 08:04:42 AM
In Deliverance, Billy Redden, who played the young banjo-playing local, didn’t know how to play banjo.

To make it look real during that “dueling banjos” scene, a musician hid behind and played the chords with his left arm in Billy's sleeve while Billy picked with his right.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2023, 11:27:08 AM
To increase the size of the U.S. Army during WWI, Congress passed the Selective Service Act, which was also known as the conscription or draft, in May 1917. By the end of the war, 2.7 million men were drafted. Another 1.3 million volunteered.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2023, 12:15:43 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Iroquois Confederacy Is Formed (1142)
The Iroquois Confederacy is a North American confederation of indigenous peoples, initially comprising the Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, and Seneca. A sixth tribe, the Tuscarora, joined later. The league was formed for both defense purposes and to prevent intertribal conflict. Although frequently referred to as the Iroquois, the nations refer to themselves collectively as Haudenosaunee, which means "people of the longhouse."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2023, 01:22:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/fgjHsok.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2023, 10:58:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Rebkxz9.png)

I remember Wooldworth, and S&W cafeteria.  Cafeterias seem to have almost disappeared, I guess the Golden Corral thing replaced them.  One survived in the little town where I grew up in ATL area.  Matthew's cafeteria.  It's not bad.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 01, 2023, 04:57:50 PM
And the kick is BLOCKED!

Sep 1, 2007

Appalachian State has STUNNED the college football world! One of the greatest upsets in sports history!


https://youtu.be/sOF6-GScIGo?t=11




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2023, 07:52:38 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
September Massacres Break Out in Paris (1792)
After an abortive insurrection in June 1792, French revolutionaries followed it with a decisive one in August. Under pressure from the insurrection, the Assembly suspended Louis XVI and ordered elections for a National Convention to draw up a new constitution. Mass arrests of royalist sympathizers were followed by the September massacres, in which frenzied mobs entered jails throughout Paris and killed approximately 2,000 prisoners, many in grisly fashion.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2023, 07:55:43 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/HhbpenK.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 04, 2023, 08:26:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Maiden Flight of the First US Airship (1923)
The USS Shenandoah was the first American-built rigid dirigible. Its design was based on a German zeppelin downed during WWI, and it was the first ship to be filled with helium—making it safer than hydrogen-filled crafts. A year after its maiden voyage, it became the first rigid airship to cross North America. While on another tour in 1925, it passed through a storm and was torn apart. Thirteen crew members died in the crash.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2023, 09:25:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/VtVlX8H.png)

1940
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2023, 10:09:12 AM
[img width=260.182 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/HhbpenK.png[/img]

Not gonna answer the other two, but Sichuan peppercorn isn't a chile pepper. So they may have already had it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2023, 10:18:50 AM
Yeah, that's what I am thinking, the spiciness was derived from other pepper types.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2023, 10:23:14 AM
Yeah, that's what I am thinking, the spiciness was derived from other pepper types.
True. They definitely added the chilies once they got them.

BTW if you like spicy Chinese, find yourself a good Hunanese restaurant. Delicious and they love some hot peppers. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 05, 2023, 07:19:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Continental Congress Assembles in Philadelphia (1774)
Indignation against England's colonial policy reached fever pitch in the British North American colonies after the passage of the so-called Intolerable Acts. The First Continental Congress, made up of delegates from every colony except Georgia, was convened in Philadelphia to address grievances against British policy. At that time, only a few radical members considered the possibility of breaking with England.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: DunkingDan on September 05, 2023, 08:02:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/VtVlX8H.png)

1940
Nothing weird about that if you ever got out into rural areas. I think there was still some stores that had PO's  in then in Tn. up through the 90's. Probably was in some places in KY as well
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2023, 07:51:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Leon Czolgosz Assassinates William McKinley (1901)
In 1901, anarchist Leon Czolgosz shot US President William McKinley at the Pan-American Exposition, a World's Fair in Buffalo, New York. McKinley died a week later, and Czolgosz was convicted of his murder and executed that same year. Though judged sane during the trial, Czolgosz is believed by some to have been mentally unstable after suffering a breakdown years earlier.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 07, 2023, 08:19:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Last Captive Thylacine Dies in Hobart Zoo (1936)
The thylacine, known also as the Tasmanian wolf and Tasmanian tiger, was a carnivorous marsupial once found on the Australian mainland, New Guinea, and Tasmania. Often cited as an example of convergent evolution, it was superficially similar to a wolf or dog, though it evolved entirely independently of these animals. It was hunted to probable extinction in the 1930s, and the last captive thylacine died in the Hobart Zoo in 1936.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2023, 08:09:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Honda Point Disaster (1923)
The Honda Point Disaster was the largest peacetime loss of US Navy ships. On the evening of September 8, 1923, 14 destroyers were engaging in simulated combat maneuvers a few miles from the northern side of the Santa Barbara Channel off the California coast. Upon reaching Honda Point, seven destroyers ran aground and were wrecked; two others suffered minor damage. In all, twenty-three sailors lost their lives.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 08, 2023, 10:16:10 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Maiden Flight of the First US Airship (1923)
The USS Shenandoah was the first American-built rigid dirigible. Its design was based on a German zeppelin downed during WWI, and it was the first ship to be filled with helium—making it safer than hydrogen-filled crafts. A year after its maiden voyage, it became the first rigid airship to cross North America. While on another tour in 1925, it passed through a storm and was torn apart. Thirteen crew members died in the crash.

It crashed near Caldwell Ohio in the SE portion of the state. There is a sign marking the place of the crash visible from I-77. I've driven by it a number of times. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 08, 2023, 10:21:07 AM
It crashed near Caldwell Ohio in the SE portion of the state. There is a sign marking the place of the crash visible from I-77. I've driven by it a number of times.
I've seen that sign too.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2023, 08:54:22 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Tajikistan Gains Independence from the Soviet Union (1991)
Russia first took control of Tajik lands in the 1880s. In the aftermath of the 1917 Russian Revolution, the Tajiks rebelled against Russian rule, and the Red Army did not retake control until 1921. Tajikistan was made an autonomous republic within Uzbekistan in 1924 and joined the USSR in 1929. In 1991, at around the time the USSR was being dissolved, the Republic of Tajikistan declared its independence. Civil war broke out a year later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2023, 07:38:41 AM
In 1839 Charles Goodyear invented vulcanization, a process that forms molecular cross-linkages between polymer chains in rubber. The result is rubber that is stronger, more elastic, and much more resistance to hot and cold temperatures.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 11, 2023, 07:59:43 AM
Can imagine being up in a hot air balloon while a lightning storm develops or losing altitude and descending on power lines :o
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 12, 2023, 07:42:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Teens Stumble upon Ancient Cave Paintings in Lascaux, France (1940)
In 1940, four teens uncovered a fantastic archeological site, a cave system decorated with prehistoric paintings, drawings, and engravings that have been dated to about 15,000–13,000 BCE. Many of the paintings are drawn over former works, enabling experts to trace stylistic developments over more than 1,000 years. The later paintings, featuring animals along with signs and symbols, exhibit an advanced artistic quality and technical skill.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 12, 2023, 07:42:57 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Richard Jordan Gatling (1818)
Gatling, an inventor who began his career creating agricultural devices including a rice-sowing machine and a steam plow, is best remembered as the creator of a rapid-firing gun that was the precursor of the modern machine gun. He offered his Gatling gun to the Union army in the Civil War, but only a few were put into use toward the war's end. For a time, Gatling worked on improving the gun, but he eventually went back to devising agricultural machinery.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on September 12, 2023, 08:44:09 AM
Helmet of the Athenian general Miltiades who led the Greeks over the Persians at Marathon in 490 BC.


(https://greekreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/800px-Helmet_of_Miltiades_050911.jpg)

https://greekreporter.com/2023/09/12/miltiades-helmet-ancient-greek-warrior-discovery/ (https://greekreporter.com/2023/09/12/miltiades-helmet-ancient-greek-warrior-discovery/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2023, 08:45:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Teens Stumble upon Ancient Cave Paintings in Lascaux, France (1940)
In 1940, four teens uncovered a fantastic archeological site, a cave system decorated with prehistoric paintings, drawings, and engravings that have been dated to about 15,000–13,000 BCE. Many of the paintings are drawn over former works, enabling experts to trace stylistic developments over more than 1,000 years. The later paintings, featuring animals along with signs and symbols, exhibit an advanced artistic quality and technical skill.
We visited there, it was very disappointing to me anyway.  There was another cave we visited that was far better, I forget the name now.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 16, 2023, 09:09:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Wall Street Bombing (1920)
At about noon on September 16, 1920, a horse-drawn wagon stopped across from the headquarters of the J.P. Morgan Inc. bank on Wall Street in New York City's Financial District. Moments later, the hundreds of pounds of explosives and shrapnel it was carrying exploded, killing 38 people and injuring hundreds more. Despite the chaos, markets reopened the next day. Now known as the Wall Street Bombing, it was the deadliest bomb attack on American soil at the time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 16, 2023, 08:24:56 PM
Slim Pickens, Dr. Strangelove or: How I Stopped Worrying And Learned To Love The Bomb (1964).

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/379249245_695638415930116_854267728198673055_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5614bc&_nc_ohc=L00P7aw5mnoAX-RaIcH&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBApJJyk5yx0OCDJKug2aCovc5PJQMbNVu6ei5jPE-3AQ&oe=650AADE0)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2023, 09:27:58 AM
Medieval alchemists studied the North Star, believing it held the secret to perpetual motion.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2023, 09:28:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Joshua A. Norton Declares Himself Emperor of the US (1859)
Though Norton arrived in San Francisco during the California gold rush, he took up speculating in rice, a valuable commodity at the time, rather than prospecting. Unfortunately, he ended up losing his fortune, after which he vanished for a short time. When he reappeared, he was wearing a costume resembling that of France's Napoleon III and calling himself "Emperor Norton." For the next 13 years, he paraded around the city issuing "proclamations" and even banknotes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2023, 09:55:36 AM
Operation Market Garden was launched on this date in 1944

Market Garden is the largest military airborne operation to date, with 34,400 paratroopers conducting static line paradrops and glider landings into the Netherlands to seize and secure key bridges and terrain that would allow for entrance into Germany. During the operation, Allied Forces dealt with insurmountable odds and suffered great losses.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 17, 2023, 10:06:59 AM
I don't know about the insurmountable odds.  German forces in the area were pretty weak,  The geography was the critical aspect, along with leadership.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2023, 10:22:23 AM
Just a crap plan all around that Monty demanded and got then didn't have the stones to show up for as it came apart almost from the beginning.Some of those odds were ignoring weather,intelligence,distance and a single elevated road for almost 70 miles. Plust the the 9th and 10th SS Panzers refitting in Arnhem. Britain had some good soldiers - that ass wasn't one of them. IKE should have been called on the carpet for letting him off his leash 34000 go in 17,000 came out .And that jerk tried to pass it off as a win.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2023, 07:31:58 AM
In 1974, President Ford declared inflation “public enemy number one” and urged the public to wear WIN pins, or “Whip Inflation Now” pins. At the time, inflation was around 7%. The pins were immediately ridiculed, and even worn upside down to say “NIM” or “Need Immediate Money.”
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2023, 07:36:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
George Washington Lays Cornerstone of US Capitol (1793)
The US Capitol is the seat of the legislative branch of government in Washington, DC. The city's dominating monument, it was built on an elevated site chosen by George Washington in consultation with architect Pierre Charles L'Enfant. The building was begun in 1793, after the president set the cornerstone during a groundbreaking ceremony that included Masonic rites. As it stands now, the building is the result of the work of several architects.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 18, 2023, 09:22:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/hjhJpGm.png)

When the US does things, it does it LARGE! During WWII, this Boeing factory was covered by a fake town, complete with lawns, houses, cars, signs and sidewalks. When viewed from the air, its almost impossible to tell there is a factory underneath.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 19, 2023, 08:41:54 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Giles Corey Pressed to Death during Salem Witch Trials (1692)
Martha Corey was a Massachusetts woman hanged for the crime of witchcraft during the Salem witch trials. A pious churchgoer, she had refused to confess but was convicted anyway. Her husband, Giles Corey, was also eventually accused but refused to enter a plea at his trial. In an attempt to make him enter a plea, he was pressed beneath an increasingly heavy load of stones. He died two days before his wife's execution.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 19, 2023, 10:00:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PLnjqoR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 20, 2023, 01:36:11 PM
In Richard Kelly's book, “The Andy Griffith Show,” Andy Griffith had the following to say about actor Howard McNear (Floyd):
"Howard, first of all, was a leading man in the San Diego theatre years ago. He never was in New York in his life. He developed this comic character, I believe, on The Jack Benny Show. Howard was a nervous man and he became that man, Floyd.
“Then Howard had a stroke and was bad off for a long time. He was out of our show for about a year and three-quarters. We did a lot of soft shows, that is, those that were not hard on comedy -- stories about the boy or the aunt. But we needed comedy scenes to break up things.
“We were working on a script one day, and Aaron [Ruben] said, `Boy do I wish we had Howard.' And one of us said, `Why don't we see if we can get him.' So right then we called up Howard's house and we got his wife, Helen. `Oh,' she said, `it would be a godsend.'
“Well, we wrote him a little scene. He was paralyzed all down his left side and so we couldn't show him walking. We had him sitting or we built a stand that supported him. He could then stand behind the barber chair and use one hand. Most of the time, however, we had him sitting. His mind was not affected at all. He was with us about two years after that before he died. Finally poor Howard died. I'm sorry because there was never anyone like him. Kind, kind man


(https://i.imgur.com/AvKvNbl.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 21, 2023, 10:02:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Hindu Milk Miracle (1995)
On September 21, 1995, news spread around the world that Hindu worshippers in India and several other countries were experiencing what they considered a miracle. At numerous temples, thousands of Hindus were spooning offerings of milk to statutes of deities, especially the elephant-headed god Ganesha, and claiming that the milk—which appeared to disappear from the spoons—was being miraculously consumed by the gods.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2023, 10:49:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/cvtXsKC.png)

Scene not that far from Paris, 1969.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on September 21, 2023, 12:30:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cvtXsKC.png)

Scene not that far from Paris, 1969.
Houston Astrodome
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on September 21, 2023, 02:13:44 PM
Walking into that place as a kid in the 70's and 80's was a special experience.  Coming through that tunnel to view the full stadium was just a different sort of feeling, I don't think I'll ever recapture that.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 21, 2023, 04:25:29 PM
Walking into that place as a kid in the 70's and 80's was a special experience.  Coming through that tunnel to view the full stadium was just a different sort of feeling, I don't think I'll ever recapture that. 
Agree.  8th wonder of the world and all.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on September 21, 2023, 04:41:18 PM
a little trivia about the astrodome

the first home run hit there was by the late great

Mickey Mantle
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2023, 05:52:29 PM
I saw a baseball game there a while back.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on September 21, 2023, 06:10:00 PM
I saw a baseball game there a while back.
its been 24 years
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2023, 06:19:57 PM
This would have been ca. 1991-2.  We had a joint project going on with Shell Chemical and I was down there a lot.  They treated me well.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 22, 2023, 08:09:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Vela Incident (1979)
In the 1960s, the US launched a group of satellites to monitor international compliance with a treaty prohibiting all tests of nuclear weapons except those conducted underground. In 1979, one of the satellites detected an unidentified double flash characteristic of an atmospheric nuclear explosion. The data were initially interpreted as evidence of a South African nuclear test, but experts later determined that the flash was likely not nuclear in origin
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 22, 2023, 08:57:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/geoj0tC.jpg)

1970
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 22, 2023, 09:25:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
The Vela Incident (1979)
In the 1960s, the US launched a group of satellites to monitor international compliance with a treaty prohibiting all tests of nuclear weapons except those conducted underground. In 1979, one of the satellites detected an unidentified double flash characteristic of an atmospheric nuclear explosion. The data were initially interpreted as evidence of a South African nuclear test, but experts later determined that the flash was likely not nuclear in origin
LoL
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on September 22, 2023, 10:54:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/geoj0tC.jpg)

1970
make a deal
what kind pf a deal
ya know, a deal deal
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 22, 2023, 11:51:58 AM
The Vela Flash: Forty Years Ago | National Security Archive (gwu.edu) (https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2019-09-22/vela-flash-forty-years-ago)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 22, 2023, 12:08:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/9ei2TLc.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2023, 07:34:45 AM
Charles Darwin invented the modern office chair when he added wheels to his own chair to move around his office easier.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2023, 07:40:58 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Typhoid Mary (1869)
Mary Mallon was the first person in the US to be identified as a healthy carrier of typhoid fever. In 1904, a typhoid epidemic was traced to homes where she had been a cook. She fled but was located by authorities and forcibly quarantined for several years. In 1910, she was released on the condition that she not take another food-handling job. Discovered cooking again in 1914, she was quarantined for life. Though she herself never had the disease, she infected about 50 people.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 23, 2023, 07:49:50 AM
Just her and no one else? Sounds like a Tammany Hall deflection
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2023, 08:41:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nULUkfd.png)

The Bent Pyramid at Dahshur, Egypt. It was constructed in c. 2600 BC.
This is believed to be Pharaoh Sneferu's second attempt at building a pyramid. It is located about 35 kilometres south of Cairo and at 104.7 metres tall, the pyramid is the fourth largest in Egypt. It was constructed at a 54 degree incline, but halfway through construction the builders changed to a 43 degree angle, when they realised they had constructed it too steeply, which possibly caused structural instability.
It seems that from the shape of the pyramid, the builders made an error and tried to complete it as best they could. Once the inner section had been completed, a casing of white limestone was added to finish it off.
Although he had completed the pyramid, Sneferu was seemingly not happy with its final look and ordered a third pyramid to be built, the Red Pyramid, and it was built at the same angle as the top half of the Bent Pyramid.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 23, 2023, 08:47:05 AM
Ah,so it wasn't aliens but Engineers - I knew it !!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2023, 08:49:52 AM
Yeah, it's pretty good evidence no advanced technical folks were involved.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2023, 06:37:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/aj1Sm13.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2023, 07:30:16 AM
The Water Clock

The clepsydra, or water clock, is an ancient timekeeper that operates by measuring the regulated flow of liquid into or out of a vessel. It is believed to have been used in Egypt as early as 2,000 BCE, making it one of the earliest known time-measurement devices. Early water clocks were calibrated with a sundial, and they remained the most accurate timekeeping devices until the invention of the pendulum clock in the 17th century.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2023, 07:41:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Secret Executive Order Allegedly Establishes Majestic 12 (1947)
Majestic 12 is the purported code name of a secret committee of scientists, military leaders, and government officials supposedly formed in 1947 by an executive order of US President Harry S. Truman. A major part of alien conspiracy theories, the committee was purportedly formed to investigate the aftermath of the Roswell incident—the alleged crash of an unidentified flying object near Roswell, New Mexico.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2023, 08:51:27 AM
a little trivia about the astrodome

the first home run hit there was by the late great

Mickey Mantle
On this date in 1956, Mickey Mantle became just the eighth player in MLB history to reach the 50-homer mark in one season. Mantle would win the AL Triple Crown that season.;

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/379536355_734254065379983_4517898152610241437_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=49d041&_nc_ohc=G7RiYDSgrGoAX9Mhukq&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCoaIqXydt6zp4ekoeiaeHXOTSBRtbt42Hwthhmt3330Q&oe=65151AE2)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2023, 10:25:49 PM
Worlds Tallest Man Robert Wadlow Vs Andre The Giant.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/380998115_313199241333669_1524536946325890568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5614bc&_nc_ohc=3Y6c-sFYUWsAX8FzbjD&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDCYAhNbuG2h_Wt8pkayZbV_aXOGFDrF_vP7HeA2ItwPw&oe=65164F41)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 24, 2023, 11:09:51 PM
Researching to see if '52 GT was worth creating for Whoa Nellie, discovered this:

the Jackets allowed 0 TD passes that year, including the Sugar Bowl, and picked off 26 passes.

Damn, man!

Many great pass defenses have had crazy ratios, but this is the first I've found with no TD passes allowed and 20+ INTs.  That's nuts.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2023, 11:11:08 PM
weird
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2023, 05:31:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ziNS2pS.jpg)

The Beeholder's Eye -The bee's eye is a marvel of biology. It is covered with hairs that act as a shield against pollen and consists of thousands of small lenses called ommatidia. These lenses allow the bee to see a range of colors, including ultraviolet, and are highly sensitive to movement. This enables the bee to spot flowers and other sources of nourishment, as well as evade potential threats.
But what truly sets the bee's eye apart is its structure. Unlike our own complex eyes, the bee's eye is made up of many simple eyes that work together to provide a wide-angle view of the world. With a visual field of 280 degrees, the bee can see almost everything around it without turning its head. This is particularly useful for locating flowers and avoiding predators.
In addition to its impressive visual capabilities, the bee's eye also processes information at lightning speed. This helps the bee make swift decisions about where to fly and what to do, both essential for its survival.
Overall, the bee's eye is a crucial part of its anatomy and a testament to the power of nature. It has developed over millions of years to help the bee thrive in its environment.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2023, 09:53:37 PM
Dan Fouts (Oregon) was the All Pac-8 QB in 1972.
49% comp%
5.9 ypa
12 TD
19 INT
98.9 rating (120 is bad, 150 is good, 170 is great)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2023, 09:56:26 PM
did his team win the conference title?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2023, 10:34:22 PM
No, in 1972 USC went 12-0 and was one of the best teams of all time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 26, 2023, 07:38:35 AM
quantity over quality
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 26, 2023, 07:38:52 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 
Saint Francis of Assisi (1181)
The patron saint of animals, Saint Francis of Assisi was an Italian monk canonized as a saint in 1228. Born into a wealthy family, he was a soldier and prisoner of war before he experienced a conversion in his early 20s. He sold his property, gave the money to the church, and began a life of poverty and devoutness. He soon attracted followers and became the founder of the Franciscan order of friars. Catholics believe that Saint Francis was the first person to exhibit stigmata
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 27, 2023, 08:09:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Wreck of the "Old 97" (1903)
The Fast Mail, a Southern Railway mail train nicknamed "Old 97," crashed near Danville, Virginia, in 1903. The derailment occurred when the train, which was being operated at a high speed in order to stay on schedule, approached a curve too quickly. It fell from the trestle to the ravine below, killing several people. The accident inspired a famous ballad that has since been recorded by Johnny Cash and Woody Guthrie among others.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 28, 2023, 07:33:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Saint Wenceslas Murdered by His Brother (935 CE)
During his reign, the Good King Wenceslaus, as he was known, was noted for his piety and worked vigorously to strengthen Christianity in Bohemia. His religion and his friendly relations with King Henry I—with whom he had negotiated a peace when Henry invaded—caused discontent among the nobles, and Wenceslaus was assassinated by his brother Boleslav I, who succeeded him. By the 11th century, he was already recognized as the patron saint of Bohemia.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 28, 2023, 08:00:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/riKBD0J.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 28, 2023, 08:14:26 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Saint Wenceslas Murdered by His Brother (935 CE)
During his reign, the Good King Wenceslaus, as he was known, was noted for his piety and worked vigorously to strengthen Christianity in Bohemia. His religion and his friendly relations with King Henry I—with whom he had negotiated a peace when Henry invaded—caused discontent among the nobles, and Wenceslaus was assassinated by his brother Boleslav I, who succeeded him. By the 11th century, he was already recognized as the patron saint of Bohemia.
Pretty sure there is a Christmas song about him.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 28, 2023, 08:18:35 AM
Pretty sure there is a Christmas song about him.
I recall singing it, long ago, with no clue about the story.  This is indoctrination.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2023, 08:56:12 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Inventor Rudolf Diesel Disappears (1913)
A German thermal engineer, Diesel invented the internal-combustion engine that bears his name, producing a series of increasingly successful models that culminated in his demonstration in 1897 of a 25-horsepower, four-stroke, single vertical cylinder compression engine. It was an immediate success and earned him a fortune. In 1913, while traveling by steamer to London for a business meeting, Diesel disappeared, presumably having fallen, jumped, or been pushed overboard.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2023, 05:43:21 AM
I did not know that.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2023, 06:43:52 AM
Weird 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 30, 2023, 07:18:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Inventor Rudolf Diesel Disappears (1913)
A German thermal engineer, Diesel invented the internal-combustion engine that bears his name, producing a series of increasingly successful models that culminated in his demonstration in 1897 of a 25-horsepower, four-stroke, single vertical cylinder compression engine. It was an immediate success and earned him a fortune. In 1913, while traveling by steamer to London for a business meeting, Diesel disappeared, presumably having fallen, jumped, or been pushed overboard.
I knew who Diesel was as I took some mechanics back in H.S. I suspect Carl Benz,Gottlieb Daimler or Ferdinan Porsche - one of those guys. Prolly all rowdied up from Oktoberfest - those Gerries can't content themselves with a one day celebration the have to go for those 2 week pub crawls
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2023, 07:19:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Film Icon James Dean Killed in Car Crash (1955)
Though he would become one of the most iconic actors in the history of Hollywood, Dean starred in only three movies—East of Eden, Rebel Without a Cause, and Giant. The moody actor was acclaimed as the epitome of the mid-1950s, representing the alienated American youth of the time. In 1955, his career and life were cut short when he was killed in a highway crash while driving his Porsche to compete in a racing event. He was just 24.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 30, 2023, 07:22:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Syd7kRIuk
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2023, 11:51:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/t1efjEs.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2023, 06:26:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Los Angeles Times Bombing (1910)
In 1910, amidst the Los Angeles Times's editorial crusade against local unions, two brothers belonging to the International Association of Bridge and Structural Iron Workers bombed the newspaper's headquarters with dynamite. The resulting fire killed 21 newspaper employees and injured dozens more. The American Federation of Labor hired noted trial attorney Clarence Darrow to represent the brothers, James and Joseph McNamara, who eventually pleaded guilty.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 02, 2023, 07:26:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Pasilalinic-Sympathetic Compass Demonstrated (1851)
French occultist Jacques Toussaint Benoit's pasilalinic-sympathetic compass was a contraption developed based on his belief that when two snails touch, they create a telepathic bond. His "snail telegraph" contained 24 snails, each associated with an individual letter of the alphabet as well as with a snail counterpart in a second device. One could theoretically transmit a message by touching the snails, eliciting reactions from their counterparts.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 03, 2023, 10:06:30 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
O.J. Simpson Found Not Guilty in the "Trial of the Century" (1995)
In 1994, Simpson, a former football star, was charged with the murder of his estranged wife Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ronald Goldman. His trial was a media-saturated event that highlighted racial tensions in America and resulted in his acquittal in 1995. In 1997, a civil jury levied a $33.5 million wrongful-death award against him in a suit brought by the victims' families.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 04, 2023, 08:43:06 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
First Run of the Orient Express (1883)
Synonymous with intrigue and luxury, the legendary Orient Express was a passenger train that ran from Paris to Istanbul for more than 80 years. Europe's first transcontinental express train, it covered over 1,700 miles (2,740 km), and its lavishly furnished cars became the symbol of glamour for Europeans. It was discontinued in 1977 and revived in 1982 to run between London and Venice as the "Venice Simplon Orient Express."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 04, 2023, 09:45:15 AM
[img width=274.381 height=493]https://i.imgur.com/t1efjEs.png[/img]
I *THINK* that is a SoDak because it clearly has nine main guns in three turrets with two fore and one aft and the bow structure doesn't look long enough for it to be an Iowa. AM I right? I suppose it could be one of the North Carolina class.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on October 05, 2023, 09:56:58 AM
Apparently Henry Ford was a Jew hater.  He published articles in a paper he owned repeatedly slamming Jews.  Even Hitler and the Nazi's admired him.  It is said that when he learned of the atrocities committed by the Nazi's against the Jews he suffered a cerebral hemorrhage and later died.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2023, 02:13:47 PM
Apparently Henry Ford was a Jew hater.  
He was indeed, it was not uncommon back then in the US.  Joseph Kennedy was a Hitler admirer as was Lindbergh, at least early on.  That doesn't mean they hated Jews, but they likely weren't fond of them.

I've known quite a few Jews in businesss and as neighbors.  Most of them, nearly all, were not "Observant" but were still Jewish.  I never had any issue with any of them.  I never really got the antisemitism thing.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 05, 2023, 03:12:23 PM
He was indeed, it was not uncommon back then in the US.  Joseph Kennedy was a Hitler admirer as was Lindbergh, at least early on.  That doesn't mean they hated Jews, but they likely weren't fond of them.

I've known quite a few Jews in businesss and as neighbors.  Most of them, nearly all, were not "Observant" but were still Jewish.  I never had any issue with any of them.  I never really got the antisemitism thing.
Re Lindbergh:
I could be wrong, but I don't think that Lindbergh's reason for wanting America NOT to oppose the Germans was antisemitic. 

I think it was simply that Lindbergh, as a cutting-edge aviator, was impressed with German technology, didn't understand the difference between tactical advantages and strategic advantages, and thought the Germans were going to win. Ie, he didn't want his country to get enmeshed with a losing cause.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2023, 03:14:54 PM
You are correct, I didn't mean they were antisemitic or that they hated Jews, just Hitler admirers at least early on.

I think by 1936 or so, folks could reasonably have admired Hitler for how Germany turned around.  It would have been tougher to see what was lying underneath.




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2023, 03:17:44 PM
Fallen Hero | American Experience | Official Site | PBS (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/lindbergh-fallen-hero/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on October 05, 2023, 03:43:33 PM
You are correct, I didn't mean they were antisemitic or that they hated Jews, just Hitler admirers at least early on.

I think by 1936 or so, folks could reasonably have admired Hitler for how Germany turned around.  It would have been tougher to see what was lying underneath.
Plus, how much real information did they really have?  Silent movies were still a thing, all you pretty much had was newspaper accounts and maybe some of those "Movie Tone News" type stories.  I don't think the average person thought Hitler was a murdering maniac until at least the start of WWII, and didn't even really fully grasp the total picture until the holocausts became public knowledge, even German people (although I'll never be convinced they didn't suspect something dastardly was happening).  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2023, 04:23:27 PM
I agree, Lindberg did visit Germany several times.  But he was "hosted" by Goering et al. and no doubt shown the nice things.  It was a recruiting trip.

I suspect some of us here would have admired Germany up to a point, they did some apparently admirable stuff, at first.  The downside was of course not publicized.

I give a lot of credit to William Shirer, a reporter over there, who tried to "tell us".  He later wrote an excellent book, which is a bit long, but worth reading.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 05:01:54 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ycGngpJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2023, 09:20:55 AM
Astronaut Database

Supercluster's mission is to tell the human side of our greatest outer space stories with films, podcasts, artwork, events, and applications.

https://www.supercluster.com/astronauts?sort=&ascending=false&life%20form=human& (https://www.supercluster.com/astronauts?sort=&ascending=false&life form=human&)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 08, 2023, 08:15:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Great Chicago Fire (1871)
The Great Chicago Fire was a conflagration that burned for more than two days and destroyed about four square miles of the city. It killed hundreds of people, left 90,000 homeless, and destroyed some $200 million worth of property. Originally composed of mostly wooden structures, the city was rebuilt with stone and steel and became a center of industry. According to early accounts of the disaster, the blaze began in a barn owned by Patrick and Catherine O'Leary.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 08, 2023, 08:42:50 AM
Mrs O'Leary was a scape goat - from what I read
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 07:04:42 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/kT3ve9D.png)

We've tried making jokes about the noble gases, but we never get a reaction... Born in 1852 was Sir Willliam Ramsay FRS, Scottish chemist and Nobel winner for his discovery of the noble gases argon, neon, krypton and xenon.

Sir William Ramsay – Biographical - NobelPrize.org (https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/chemistry/1904/ramsay/biographical/)

I was musing about his lab equipment and wondering what capabilities he had there.   I presume he had some means of making things cold.  And that hardly is typical lab clothing of course.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 07:09:02 AM
Although argon is abundant in the Earth’s atmosphere, it evaded discovery until 1894 when Lord Rayleigh and William Ramsay first separated it from liquid air. In fact the gas had been isolated in 1785 by Henry Cavendish who had noted that about 1% of air would not react even under the most extreme conditions. That 1% was argon.

Argon was discovered as a result of trying to explain why the density of nitrogen extracted from air differed from that obtained by the decomposition of ammonia.
Ramsay removed all the nitrogen from the gas he had extracted from air, and did this by reacting it with hot magnesium, forming the solid magnesium nitride. He was then left with a gas that would not react and when he examined its spectrum he saw new groups of red and green lines, confirming that it was a new element.



Argon - Element information, properties and uses | Periodic Table (rsc.org) (https://www.rsc.org/periodic-table/element/18/argon#:~:text=Argon was discovered as a,forming the solid magnesium nitride.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 07:20:22 AM
Having discovered the noble gas argon, extracted from air, William Ramsay and Morris William Travers of University College, London, were convinced this must be one of a new group of elements of the periodic table. They decided others were likely to be hidden in the argon and by a process of liquefaction and evaporation they hoped it might leave behind a heavier component, and it did. It yielded krypton in the afternoon of 30th May 1898, and they were able to isolate about 25 cm3 of the new gas. This they immediately tested in a spectrometer, and saw from its atomic spectrum that it was a new element.

Kr boils at -153°C and melts at -157°C, only 4 degrees apart.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 10, 2023, 08:12:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Double Tenth Incident (1943)
During the Japanese occupation of Singapore in World War II, several Japanese ships in Singapore Harbor were sunk in an Allied raid. On October 10, or the "Double Tenth," Japanese military police arrested 57 civilian suspects—none of whom had actually been involved in the plot—and tortured them for months. Fifteen of the detainees died. After the war, 21 of the Japanese officers were charged with war crimes, eight were sentenced to death, and six received prison terms.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 12:30:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/WgySoVY.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 01:45:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/bcwQcaB.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2023, 07:24:17 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Morant Bay Rebellion (1865)
Jamaica was once a leading sugar producer, but the 1833 abolition of slavery there along with unfavorable British tax reforms led to the industry's decline. The resulting economic hardship was one of the prime motives behind the Morant Bay rebellion, which began as a gathering of several hundred black protesters but became a violent riot after a volunteer militia fired upon them. The British ruthlessly quelled the uprising and forced the legislature to surrender its powers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2023, 08:04:58 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Iron Lung Used for the First Time (1928)
Invented by engineer Philip Drinker, an iron lung is a device that can produce artificial respiration for extended periods of time. It consists of an airtight metal tank that encloses nearly the entire body and forces the lungs to inhale and exhale by regulating changes in air pressure. Developed for the treatment of coal gas poisoning and first used to save an unconscious child in respiratory failure
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2023, 08:16:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571 Crashes in the Andes (1972)
While carrying a Uruguayan rugby team to a match in Chile, Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571 crashed high in the Andes. Many passengers died in the crash or shortly after; several more were killed in an avalanche. Stranded in the remote mountainous border between Argentina and Chile, the survivors were forced to eat the dead to avoid starvation. Knowing that the search effort had been called off, two of the remaining 16 eventually hiked out and found help.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2023, 09:33:01 AM
Paul Bunyan

Paul Bunyan is a mythical lumberjack and American folk hero known for his incredible strength and massive size. His oversized companion, Babe the Blue Ox, reportedly measured 42 ax handles and a plug of tobacco between his horns. The first newspaper article about Bunyan was published in 1906, and later pamphlets by William Laughead popularized the Paul Bunyan story and added to the myth.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 21, 2023, 09:08:15 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
HMAS Australia Is First Ship Ever Hit by Kamikaze Attack (1944)
In Japanese, kamikaze means "divine wind," a reference to the typhoon that foiled the Mongol invasion of Japan in 1281. In World War II, the term was used for Japanese pilots who made deliberate suicidal crashes into enemy targets. Such attacks sank 34 ships and damaged hundreds, killing thousands. In the lead up to the Battle of Leyte Gulf, the Royal Australian Navy's HMAS Australia became perhaps the first ship damaged by a kamikaze.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 26, 2023, 08:39:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Pony Express Announces Its Closure (1861)
At its inception in 1860, the Pony Express operated between St. Joseph, Missouri—the western end of a telegraph line—and Sacramento, California. Changing horses at stations roughly 10–15 miles (16–24 km) apart, riders carried the mail a distance of 1,800 miles (2,900 km) in about eight days, often traveling through hostile Native American territory. Though it provided an important mail link with the West, it was a financial failure, and the Pony Express announced its closure
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 26, 2023, 04:49:41 PM
Although there are dozens of active Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyers in the U.S. Navy's fleet, there's something special about the USS Kidd. It doesn't have any secret technology or weapons (that we know of), and its capabilities are the same as any other of its class. The standout feature that tends to capture the attention of even the most landlubberly civilian is the massive Jolly Roger that the Kidd is often seen flying from its mast.

The USS Kidd's pirate flag, the infamous skull and crossbones that hearkens back to the Golden Age of Piracy that spanned the 17th and 18th centuries, is the only one the U.S. Navy has ever allowed to fly on one of its ships. And like most bizarre things that happen inside the Navy, it starts with an honored tradition, one dating back to World War II.


https://www.military.com/history/only-navy-warship-authorized-fly-pirate-flag-sea.html (https://www.military.com/history/only-navy-warship-authorized-fly-pirate-flag-sea.html)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2023, 08:52:43 AM
G. H. Hardy on Srinivasa Ramanujan (https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/te2/1/16/270d.png)
He could remember the idiosyncrasies of numbers in an almost uncanny way. It was Littlewood who said that every positive integer was one of Ramanujan's personal friends. I remember once going to see him when he was ill at Putney. I had ridden in taxi cab number 1729 and remarked that the number seemed to me rather a dull one, and that I hoped it was not an unfavorable omen.
"No," he replied, "it is a very interesting number; it is the smallest number expressible as the sum of two cubes in two different ways."



(https://i.imgur.com/4VG1coL.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 07:20:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Siege of La Rochelle Ends (1628)
In 1598, French King Henry IV issued the Edict of Nantes to restore internal peace in France, ravaged by the Wars of Religion. The edict gave the French Protestants, or Huguenots, extensive rights and control of certain cities, including La Rochelle, which became a stronghold for them. However, Henry's successor, Louis XIII, and his minister, Cardinal Richelieu, resolved to crush the Huguenots, and La Rochelle fell after a 14-month siege.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2023, 07:50:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ticker-Tape Parade Invented in New York City (1886)
Before the advent of the Internet, stock quotes were printed by telegraph machines on continuous paper ribbon known as ticker tape. In 1886, New Yorkers became the first to use the tape as confetti during an impromptu celebration of the dedication of the Statue of Liberty, inventing what would come to be known as a "ticker-tape parade." Since then, ticker-tape parades have been used to greet dignitaries, honor war heroes, and fete sports teams.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2023, 08:48:20 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Orson Welles Broadcasts The War of the Worlds (1938)
On the night before Halloween in 1938, many listeners tuned in late to Welles' Mercury Theatre on the Air, missing the program's introduction announcing that it would be broadcasting an adaptation of H. G. Wells' The War of the Worlds. The innovative format, which featured news segments reporting a Martian invasion, was so convincing that it panicked the listening public and brought national attention to Welles.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2023, 07:38:23 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/395761586_734833312007430_462709378618449287_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=y5kIbo3egI0AX8GFFGq&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAPwVG6zZRGTh9yZwI5pIxkre9rbo13zfQjEXmk8_DxVA&oe=654562B9)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2023, 07:51:36 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

The first Jack O’Lanterns were actually made from turnips
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2023, 08:15:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Enron CFO Andrew Fastow Indicted for Fraud (2002)
In 2000, natural gas and electricity trading giant Enron was the seventh largest corporation in the US. In 2001, it became the largest bankruptcy and stock collapse in US history at the time, devastating the pensions of some 20,000 employees. Fastow, Enron's chief financial officer, was one of more than 20 people who were ultimately convicted of or pleaded guilty to fraud, conspiracy, and other crimes related to deceptive accounting practices.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 06:50:29 PM
In the 1960 Orange Bowl—the first time UGA and Missouri faced off—Georgia’s Fran Tarkenton passed for two TDs, and Durward Pennington kicked two PATs, in the Bulldogs’ 14-0 win over the Tigers.

It would be another 53 seasons before the schools played a second time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2023, 08:42:07 AM
Sir Francis
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2023, 08:42:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Last Hanging at Tyburn Gallows (1783)
In 1571, a novel triangular gallows allowing for the hanging of several people at once was erected in the English village of Tyburn, which became so famous for its executions that thousands of paying spectators would turn out for hangings. During a 1649 mass execution, 24 prisoners were hanged there. The site became synonymous with capital punishment and was commonly invoked in euphemisms like "to take a ride to Tyburn," meaning to go to one's hanging.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2023, 12:28:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/bDMzaNE.png)

Omaha Beach.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2023, 12:39:54 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/X03NlrR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 04, 2023, 07:43:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Japanese Prime Minister Hara Takashi Assassinated (1921)
Cofounder of one of Japan's first political parties, Hara served as prime minister of Japan from 1918 to 1921, becoming the first commoner to be appointed to that office. During that time, he suppressed labor organization while extending suffrage to small landholders by lowering the property qualifications for voting. Hara also attempted to reduce the power of the military, which led to his assassination by a fanatic.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 06, 2023, 08:12:44 AM
In 1963, an East German soldier named Wolfgang Engels stole a tank and crashed through the Berlin Wall. Though he was shot twice, he made it to the other side of the wall.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 06, 2023, 08:27:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Flight of the Hawker Hurricane (1935)
First tested in 1935, the Hawker Hurricane was a British single-seat fighter aircraft powered by a newly designed Rolls-Royce engine. Together with the Spitfire, the Hurricane enabled the Royal Air Force (RAF) to win the Battle of Britain of 1940, accounting for the majority of the RAF's air victories during this period. About 14,000 Hurricanes were built by the end of 1944, and the aircraft served in all the major theatres of World War II.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2023, 03:04:32 PM
Grandfather Mountain rises 5,964 feet above sea level.
•It is located at the meeting point of Avery, Caldwell, and Watauga counties.
•The mountain is famous for its rugged character, and is home to many hidden caves and significant cliffs.
•It has been reported that Grandfather Mountain has experienced some of the "highest surface wind speeds ever recorded," with unverified speeds in excess of 200 mph.
•Grandfather Mountain is the highest peak on the eastern escarpment of the Blue Ridge Mountains, one of the major chains of the Appalachian Mountains. (Nearby Mt. Mitchell, the highest peak east of the Mississippi River, is on the western escarpment.)
•The Blue Ridge Parkway passes by the south side of the mountain and also passes over the nearby Grandmother Gap.
•Grandfather Mountain’s famous Mile High Swinging Bridge, built in 1952, is America’s highest suspension footbridge.
•Two rivers have headwaters on Grandfather Mountain, the Linville River, flowing east, and the Watauga River, flowing west.
•Many lesser streams originate on the slopes of Grandfather, including: Upper Boone Fork, Little Wilson Creek, Wilson Creek (North Carolina), Stack Rock Creek, and others.
•The primary massif (ridge) of the mountain is oriented roughly north to south, and features four named peaks:
Calloway Peak (5,964 ft.), Attic Window Peak (5,949 ft.), MacRae Peak (5,844 ft.), and Linville Peak (5,295 ft.).
•Due to the considerable elevation gain, the mountain boasts 16 distinct ecological communities.
•The mountain is estimated to be 300 million years old – with certain rock formations dating back 1.2 billion years.




(https://i.imgur.com/daifLEf.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 08, 2023, 07:14:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/8YPbSsp.png)

The Sears building and old Ponce de Leon Park in Atlanta (near me), probably 1955 or so.  Below is a similar view a couple years back (new buildings sprouted all around it now).  The Sears building is now Ponce City Market, a kind of upscale shopping center which is all the rage.  The old rail line is not part of the Beltline.


(https://i.imgur.com/u8uAuAD.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2023, 10:03:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Kristallnacht (1938)
In 1938, using the assassination of a German diplomat in Paris as a pretext, Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels urged violent reprisals against Jews. The resulting pogrom left 91 Jews dead and hundreds injured. Some 30,000 Jewish males were arrested and taken to concentration camps, and thousands of Jewish-owned businesses and synagogues were destroyed. The incident marked a major escalation in the Nazi program of Jewish persecution, foreshadowing the Holocaust.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: huskerdinie on November 09, 2023, 10:26:40 AM
If I remember correctly, the Berlin Wall came down on November 9,1989  (which just so happened to be my 33rd birthday!).  I do remember watching the news showing people climbing on the wall and others taking sledgehammers to it.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 09, 2023, 10:28:59 AM
If I remember correctly, the Berlin Wall came down on November 9,1989  (which just so happened to be my 33rd birthday!).  I do remember watching the news showing people climbing on the wall and others taking sledgehammers to it. 
Happy birthday!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2023, 10:48:36 AM
Happy Birthday!!!
:happybirthday3:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2023, 09:00:55 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Henry Wirz Executed for War Crimes in American Civil War (1865)
In 1864, Wirz, a Confederate officer, became superintendent of Georgia's Andersonville prison, officially known as Camp Sumter. Providing only makeshift shelters, the prison confined tens of thousands of Union soldiers and became notorious for conditions so appalling that 13,000 of them died. Wirz was later convicted of conspiring to murder prisoners and hanged, becoming the only person executed for war crimes committed in the American Civil War.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2023, 05:42:55 PM
SS Edmund Fitzgerald  sank in Lake Superior during a storm on November 10, 1975, with the loss of the entire crew of 29 men. When launched on June 7, 1958, she was the largest ship on North America's Great Lakes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes), and she remains the largest to have sunk there.

One of the guys went to my high school about 6-7 years ahead of me
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 10, 2023, 11:07:13 PM
SS Edmund Fitzgerald sank in Lake Superior during a storm on November 10, 1975, with the loss of the entire crew of 29 men. When launched on June 7, 1958, she was the largest ship on North America's Great Lakes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes), and she remains the largest to have sunk there.

One of the guys went to my high school about 6-7 years ahead of me
May I ask what school?

I was at a car show and saw a '75 Charger that had been purchased new at a Dodge dealer in North Olmsted by a crewman. He died in the sinking and his parents had to retrieve the car from his parking spot at the dock in Toledo.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2023, 05:47:32 AM
That's it,Some older guys I used to play with in Softball League knew him - Bruce Hudson
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2023, 07:37:54 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

George S. Patton, Jr. (1885)
Patton, nicknamed "Old Blood-and-Guts," was probably the most admired and most controversial American World War II general. Though he had a brilliant war record—he led successful military operations in Morocco and Sicily and spearheaded the spectacular sweep of US forces across northern France into Germany—he was a rigid disciplinarian and nearly lost his career for slapping a hospitalized soldier he suspected of feigning illness. In what event of the 1912 Olympics did Patton place fifth?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2023, 07:40:31 AM
Shooting,marksmanship forget what the catagory was called
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2023, 07:42:24 AM
you get an early morning Yuengling!!! 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2023, 07:49:59 AM
I'll have that as soon as I clear out that forest of Oktoberfests
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2023, 08:06:52 AM
my selection sucks today

Bud fat and more Bud fat

but, it's dressed in RED and it's 
BIG RED GameDay, Baby!!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 11, 2023, 09:13:41 AM
Shooting,marksmanship forget what the catagory was called
Pistol?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 11, 2023, 09:16:04 AM
That's it,Some older guys I used to play with in Softball League knew him - Bruce Hudson
Cool.
The current owner lives out in Western Ohio, Findlay maybe. I'm trying to get him to speak to a club I do some programs for.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2023, 10:04:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/zD1ysIO.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 11, 2023, 11:15:27 AM
I was at a car show and saw a '75 Charger that had been purchased new at a Dodge dealer in North Olmsted by a crewman. He died in the sinking and his parents had to retrieve the car from his parking spot at the dock in Toledo.
This is mostly for @MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) but for any other car guys this will interest you:

I'm in a Facebook group called Ohio Car Shows and Cruise-ins. In May of 2020 right in the thick of the pandemic when everyone was locked down there was an invite to a Memorial Day car show at the VA Facility in Sandusky, Ohio. 

My wife was pregnant with our second at the time so I put an infant seat in the back of my Z28. Wife and one year old and I drove to Sandusky and there must have been 10,000 cars.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2023, 11:53:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SV9f2Am.png)

Found this ad on my FB feed ....
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2023, 09:50:03 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Exploding Whale Incident (1970)
In 1970, a 45-ft (14-m), 8-ton sperm whale died after beaching itself near Florence, Oregon. Charged with disposing of the carcass, the Oregon Highway Division decided that half a ton of dynamite would effectively break the whale into pieces small enough for scavengers to clear. The explosion, which launched large chunks of blubber so far that at least one car was damaged, was filmed by a TV crew and became the stuff of legend.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on November 12, 2023, 04:52:28 PM
the 1970 exploding whale


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPuaSY0cMK8
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 13, 2023, 07:20:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PhIq3vQ.png)

Alaska 1964
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 14, 2023, 08:48:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Shipboard Aircraft Takeoff (1910)
A year after learning to fly, aviator Eugene Ely performed an experiment for the US Navy: he took off from a temporary platform built over the bow of the USS Birmingham, anchored off Virginia's coast, and became the first person to take off from a ship in a fixed-wing aircraft. Two months later, he performed the first shipboard landing, using the first tailhook system to land on the USS Pennsylvania in San Francisco Bay, California.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2023, 08:24:31 AM
Founded in the year 930, Iceland’s parliament, the Althingi, is the oldest parliamentary body in the world.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2023, 08:27:16 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Clutter Family Murdered (1959)
In 1959, parolees Richard Hickock and Perry Smith murdered Herbert and Bonnie Clutter and their two children while attempting to rob their Kansas farmhouse. Writer Truman Capote spent the next five years researching the crime and interviewing those involved, including Hickock and Smith, who were hanged for the murders in 1965. Capote's In Cold Blood was published shortly thereafter and launched the nonfiction novel genre.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2023, 08:10:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/L9vuTK2.png)

The Atlanta Zero Mile Post was here before Atlanta was called Atlanta!
Established in 1842, the Zero Mile post marked the end of the Western and Atlantic Railroad which started in Chattanooga, TN. The post was placed here at Underground beneath the Central Ave. viaduct between Alabama and Wall streets.
If you ask us, the Zero Mile Post represents the founding Atlanta and we are proud to hold that history here at Underground. It is now known to be one of the oldest Atlanta landmarks. Today you can find the mile post at The Atlanta History Center and a replica of this post beneath Central Ave.


(https://i.imgur.com/Nc2XHK8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2023, 08:14:27 AM
A thing I didn't know for a long while was that the railroad came from Chattanooga south, the first one, to end here.  It connected the farming products around the area with the Tennessee River and areas north.  Later, more RRs were built from east and west and south and it became a connecting point.  Early city fathers didn't like all the RRs coming through downtown as it would often block traffic (imagine that).  They are still there, but now mostly under bridges and buildings.

A new development informally called "The Gulch" is being built over the surface RRs one can see near MB stadium.  The official name is Centennial Yards.

Centennial Yards: Connecting Atlanta's Downtown Communities (https://centennialyards.com/)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2023, 07:36:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/robNCJZ.png)

East end of Sanford Stadium, 1980.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2023, 09:52:58 AM
no color pictures back then?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2023, 10:08:48 AM
I don't know why it was not color, but sports photographers, which may have taken it, usually shot B&W.  The Tri-X B&W film was popular because it was "fast".  And Tri-X was pretty grainy, which this seems to be also.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2023, 10:27:00 AM
fast wasn't required for that shot
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2023, 10:38:05 AM
No, but a sports photographer would use B&W film for events, in nearly every case, even if it wasn't Tri-X.  There were slower less grainy versus at 200 and 100 ASA.

I'd never seen this view before with the start of construction of the expansion and folks watching from The Tracks, which was a major tradition back in the day.

Now the west end us open giving one a view from the bridge, which also is a kind of tradition.  Folks would camp out on The Tracks for a major game to secure their vantage point, such as it was, as it was free.  They used to charge a bit to watch from the bridge, now it's closed off for games and used as part of the entrances.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2023, 01:21:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/EN1pnur.png)

I think my wife would leave me if I ever took her back there.  I'd probably go with her.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2023, 01:26:10 PM
At least they planned for the growth. Nice Roadway.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2023, 04:29:11 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
First Computer Mouse Patented (1970)
While working at the Stanford Research Institute in the early 1960s, human-computer interaction pioneer Doug Engelbart invented the first computer mouse, so called because of its resemblance to the small rodent. His mouse was constructed out of a wooden box and two wheels set perpendicular to one another. The rotation of each wheel was translated into motion along one axis, and this information was relayed to the computer to indicate the mouse's position.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2023, 09:29:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/dYpDUJc.jpg)

What 5 megabytes of computer data looked like in 1966: 62,500 punched cards, taking four days to load.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 19, 2023, 08:29:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Jay's Treaty Signed (1794)
When unsettled controversies with England in the aftermath of the American Revolution threatened to involve the US in another war, President George Washington named Chief Justice John Jay as an envoy for the negotiation of a treaty. The agreement, concluded in 1794 and known as Jay's Treaty, averted war between the two nations, solved many outstanding issues, and opened 10 years of largely peaceful trade in the midst of the French Revolutionary Wars.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 19, 2023, 04:04:39 PM
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/lincoln-delivers-gettysburg-address

Today is to 160th anniversary of the dedication of the Military Cemetery at Gettysburg. 

Lincoln gave a speech in which he stated that history would little note, nor long remember what he and the other speakers said.

Most people here probably memorized that speech:

Four score and seven years ago . . .
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 20, 2023, 09:08:10 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Diocletian's Army Declares Him Emperor of Rome (284 CE)
Of humble birth, Diocletian rose through the ranks of the Roman military to become a high-ranking commander. His troops proclaimed him emperor after the death of Numerian, and he became sole ruler when Carinus, Numerian's co-emperor, was murdered by his own officers. Seeking to remove the military from politics, Diocletian established a tetrarchy, or four-ruler system, appointing Maximian, Constantius I, and Galerius as co-rulers and proclaiming them all gods.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2023, 09:49:24 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9mBy0XD.png)

One last Happy Bday to the one and only Ted Turner, 85 today. Here competing in his great promo idea of doing Ostrich Races at a Braves Game in 1976. Only Ted.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 20, 2023, 09:50:47 AM
is that Pete Rose?
is that what hooked him on gambling?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2023, 09:59:04 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/avARMIL.png)

1927.
(https://i.imgur.com/AHrXPEA.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2023, 03:08:42 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Zw7MRU8.png)

Vehicles line the road at Neels Gap in the north Georgia mountains, probably shortly after the opening of the road in 1925. 

It's amazing how much has changed in a century.  Before this road was built, north Georgia was barely accessible.  There was a roll road in a different spot that was good for wagons, barely.  My Dad was born near Blairsville, GA in 1917.  He told me about seeing his first car, it may have been after this road was opened.

The road is still there, largely on the same grade, but widened and paved of course, it's US 19.

This was written by my cousin once removed.

Finally a Paved Road Across Neel Gap (rootsweb.com) (https://sites.rootsweb.com/~gaunion/mm051905.htm)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2023, 03:18:21 PM
The Logan Turnpike

            
If you want to travel the Logan Turnpike today, you will have to walk over portions of it or use a two-wheeled vehicle.  The present-day Richard Russell Scenic Highway basically is cut through the northern roadbed of the turnpike.  At Tesnatee Gap, the Logan Turnpike led from Union County across the mountain into White County.  If you access it from the south, Kellam Valley Road north of Cleveland, Georgia will lead you northward to the old turnpike.  It was first known as the Union Turnpike. 
It was my privilege in 1992, while the venerable Charles Roscoe Collins, better known to family and friends as “Ros,” was still able to travel and give his historical accounts, to spend a day with him and have him personally give me a tour of the Old Logan Turnpike.  His knowledge and memories provided a colorful roadmap to places and times in our history which have long since vanished.
“I rode the turnpike many times with my father, James J. Collins, in our two-horse wagon,” Collins remembered.  As a lad, his major job was braking the wagon on the steep inclines.  He told of cutting blocks of wood to use as “scotches” for the wheels.  One time, he cut pine saplings and tied them behind the wagon to impede speed on the steep grades.  In the winter, he also traveled ahead of the wagon and broke ice in the streams so the horses could cross.
When he was about seventeen, his father allowed him to take the wagon and its precious cargo on the Logan Turnpike to Gainesville to market.  Collins felt that he had indeed “arrived,” being entrusted with the wagoner’s job without adult supervision.  His father had a country store and the cargo for the trip to Gainesville included live chickens, farm produce, chestnuts and chinquapins in season, and cured animal pelts.  These were items the country folk had brought to the Collins store to trade for “store-bought” items.  Likewise, in Gainesville, Ros Collins bartered what he had hauled from Choestoe at the wholesale houses for coffee, sugar, cloth, shoes and other items which his father would sell in their store.  Barter was the name of the game and adventure was par for the course.  The round trip on these trading ventures took five days.
In tracing the history of the turnpike, this notation was found in the “Digest of Laws for the State of Georgia” for 1821: “John Lyon, Joel Dickerson and Company shall hereafter be a body corporate by the name and style of the Union Turnpike Company, for the purpose of constructing a turnpike road from Loudsville in Habersham County, through the Tesnatee Gap in the Blue Ridge Mountains, by way of Blairsville to some eligible point on the northern boundary of this state in a direction toward the Tellico Plains in the state of Tennessee.”
 Specifications called for the turnpike to be twenty feet wide with a causeway of twelve feet.  No railroad or other road or canal could be built within ten miles of the turnpike for fifteen years.  Since, in 1821, Indians were still in the area, it is reasonable to assume that the turnpike followed an Indian trail.   The Union Turnpike was finished the same year it was chartered.   A companion road, the Old Unicoi Turnpike to the east, paralleled the Union Turnpike.  Unicoi was chartered in 1813 and led from North Carolina across Unicoi Gap, through the Nacoochee Valley and into present-day Clarkesville.  Clearing for the Unicoi Turnpike began in 1812.
These two roads, the Union and the Unicoi, were used by early settlers arriving in the area.  Once settled, the pioneers made good use of the roads as trade routes.
          The Union Turnpike became the Logan Turnpike because of the Logan family.  Francis Logan migrated from Rutherford County, NC, traveling over the Unicoi Turnpike.  He settled on March 10, 1822 in Nacoochee Valley.  His land grant was north of Cleveland in the Loudsville Community.  He married Hulda Powell on August 12, 1825.
Certain events have a way of setting off a chain reaction.  In 1828 one of Francis Logan’s slaves found a gold nugget along Duke’s Creek with a weight of more than three ounces.  This set off the famous North Georgia Gold Rush.  More gold was found along the Chattahoochee River, at Hamby’s Ford, at Bean Creek and at Black Branch.  Soon thousands of gold-hungry prospectors were digging for the precious metal.  When found (and they did find gold in them hills), the ore had to be taken to the nearest mint, Bechtler’s, in Rutherford County, North Carolina.  Both the Unicoi and the Union Turnpikes were used to transport the gold northward to the mint.  Later, as the gold rush escalated, a U. S. Mint was established at Dahlonega, Georgia.
Francis Logan had a son named Major Willis Logan.  He had extensive land holdings south of the mountains in western White County.  Records show that Major Logan purchased all rights to the Union Turnpike for $3,000.  The road then took the name Logan after the man who bought it.  He had a charter and operated the road for thirty years.  Members of his family continued to operate it until Neel Gap opened up in 1925 with US Highway 129 and the Logan Turnpike was no longer needed.
Logan Turnpike was seven and one-half miles over the mountain, from Loudsville in White County, northward across Tesnatee Gap, by Ponder Post Office and on into Choestoe where it connected with the old Union Turnpike.  Stagecoaches traveled from Augusta, Georgia to Tennessee.  Major Logan operated a stagecoach inn that took in overnight boarders and offered meals.  Tolls were charged.  The tollgate was near Logan’s Inn. 
[Next week: More on the Logan Turnpike.]
 
 
c2004 by Ethelene Dyer Jones; published Feb. 5, 2004 in The Union Sentinel, Blairsville, GA.  Reprinted by permission.  All rights reserved.



[Ethelene Dyer Jones is a retired educator, freelance writer, poet, and historian.  She may be reached at e-mail edj0513@ (edj0513@alltel.net)windstream (edj0513@alltel.net).net (edj0513@alltel.net); phone 478-453-8751; or mail 1708 Cedarwood RoadMilledgevilleGA 31061-2411.]

Updated August 23, 2009




Back To Union County, Georgia GenWeb Site (https://sites.rootsweb.com/~gaunion/index.htm)



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Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2023, 07:57:46 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Mayflower Compact Signed (1620)
The decision to settle outside the boundaries of established colonial government rather than within Virginia territory, as originally planned, led some Mayflower passengers to assert that they would not be bound by laws. Concerned Pilgrim leaders drafted a compact providing for the temporary government of the colony. The 41 adult male signers agreed to combine themselves into a "civil Body Politick" that would enact "just and equal laws" that were made for the "general good"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 21, 2023, 08:32:43 AM
This is mostly for @MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) but for any other car guys this will interest you:

I'm in a Facebook group called Ohio Car Shows and Cruise-ins. In May of 2020 right in the thick of the pandemic when everyone was locked down there was an invite to a Memorial Day car show at the VA Facility in Sandusky, Ohio.

My wife was pregnant with our second at the time so I put an infant seat in the back of my Z28. Wife and one year old and I drove to Sandusky and there must have been 10,000 cars.
I have a couple of friends that were showing cars at that event. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 21, 2023, 08:37:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/dYpDUJc.jpg)

What 5 megabytes of computer data looked like in 1966: 62,500 punched cards, taking four days to load.
Reminds me of one of my COBOL programs in college. LOL
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 21, 2023, 08:38:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PhIq3vQ.png)

Alaska 1964
I believe that is the result of the largest earthquake ever recorded to that point on March 27, 1964. It happened about 20 mins before I was born.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on November 21, 2023, 09:20:26 AM
Reminds me of one of my COBOL programs in college. LOL
Yep, except we used Algol at Case Western
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2023, 09:15:08 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Blackbeard Killed in Battle with Royal Navy (1718)
Before turning to piracy, Blackbeard, whose real name was probably Edward Teach, likely worked as a privateer in the War of the Spanish Succession. While marauding in the West Indies and along the Atlantic coast, Blackbeard enjoyed the protection of North Carolina's governor—who partook of the booty. A British naval force eventually killed Blackbeard and took his head back to England as proof. Legend has since romanticized the notoriously cruel pirate.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2023, 11:01:45 AM
I believe that is the result of the largest earthquake ever recorded to that point on March 27, 1964. It happened about 20 mins before I was born.
No, no, no,...the earth shook about 9 months before you were born.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2023, 11:08:49 AM
Fun Florida fact:
Our defense only has 3 INTs this year. 
*Our QB has only thrown 3.
That's got to be a post-wishbone record for least combined iNTs, right???
.
*a WR threw an INT on a failed trick play vs Vandy


aka boring football
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 12:31:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/3BZnsSE.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 12:34:50 PM
Mohammad Abdus Salam[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-cosmic-anger-249-4)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-The_Dawn_Newspapers_(Archive,_21_November_2011)-5)[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-6) NI(M) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nishan-e-Imtiaz) SPk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitara-e-Pakistan) (/sæˈlæm/ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English); pronounced [əbd̪ʊs səlaːm] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Hindi_and_Urdu); 29 January 1926 – 21 November 1996)[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-kibble98-7) was a Pakistani theoretical physicist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoretical_physicist). He shared the 1979 Nobel Prize in Physics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_in_Physics) with Sheldon Glashow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_Glashow) and Steven Weinberg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Weinberg) for his contribution to the electroweak unification (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroweak_theory) theory.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Nobel_Prize-8) He was the first Pakistani and the first Muslim from an Islamic country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_country) to receive a Nobel Prize in science and the second from an Islamic country to receive any Nobel Prize, after Anwar Sadat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Sadat) of Egypt.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Ghani_1982_i-xi-9)
Salam was scientific advisor to the Ministry of Science and Technology in Pakistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Science_and_Technology_(Pakistan)) from 1960 to 1974, a position from which he played a major and influential role in the development of the country's science infrastructure.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Ghani_1982_i-xi-9)[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-ICTP-10) Salam contributed to numerous developments in theoretical and particle physics in Pakistan.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-ICTP-10) He was the founding director of the Space and Upper Atmosphere Research Commission (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_and_Upper_Atmosphere_Research_Commission) (SUPARCO), and responsible for the establishment of the Theoretical Physics Group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Institute_of_Nuclear_Science_and_Technology#Research_divisions) (TPG).[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Rahman_1998_75–76-11)[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Yahoo!_News,_9_July_2012-12) For this, he is viewed as the "scientific father"[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-The_Dawn_Newspapers_(Archive,_21_November_2011)-5)[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Muslim_Times,_Lahore-13) of this program.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Dawn_News_International,_Archive_2004-14)[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-15)[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-16) In 1974, Abdus Salam departed from his country in protest after the Parliament of Pakistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Pakistan) passed unanimously a parliamentary bill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_Constitution_of_Pakistan) declaring members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_Muslim) community, to which Salam belonged, non-Muslim.[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-:0-17) In 1998, following the country's Chagai-I (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagai-I) nuclear tests, the Government of Pakistan issued a commemorative stamp, as a part of "Scientists of Pakistan", to honour the services of Salam.[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Pakistan_Post_Office_Department-18)
Salam's notable achievements include the Pati–Salam model (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pati–Salam_model), magnetic photon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_photon), vector meson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_meson), Grand Unified Theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Unified_Theory), work on supersymmetry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersymmetry) and, most importantly, electroweak theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroweak_theory), for which he was awarded the Nobel Prize.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Nobel_Prize-8) Salam made a major contribution in quantum field theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_field_theory) and in the advancement of Mathematics at Imperial College London (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_College_London). With his student, Riazuddin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riazuddin_(physicist)), Salam made important contributions to the modern theory on neutrinos, neutron stars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_stars) and black holes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_holes), as well as the work on modernising quantum mechanics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics) and quantum field theory. As a teacher and science promoter, Salam is remembered as a founder and scientific father of mathematical (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_physics) and theoretical physics in Pakistan during his term as the chief scientific advisor to the president.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-ICTP-10)[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-19) Salam heavily contributed to the rise of Pakistani physics within the global physics community (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN).[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-CERN_Courier-20)[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-21) Up until shortly before his death, Salam continued to contribute to physics, and to advocate for the development of science in third-world countries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World).[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Abdus_Salam_-_Biography-22)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2023, 08:57:16 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SaCyWjY.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2023, 09:05:43 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/7RGBDj9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 26, 2023, 08:22:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Public Streetcar Service Begins in New York City (1832)
The first streetcars, which were drawn by horses, were introduced in New York City. The first electric streetcar system for urban passenger service in the US was introduced about 50 years later in Cleveland. The use of streetcars expanded in the US until World War I. Since then, most have been replaced by buses, although many still remain in use, and new streetcar systems have been introduced in some cities.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2023, 09:05:47 AM
Street cars don't work well from what I can see aside from a tourist attraction.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 26, 2023, 09:07:08 AM
similar to light rail trains and such

busses more flexible
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2023, 09:15:49 AM
Light rail works OK in some places, better than street cars.  The nice thing about busses is one can change their routes.  I think dedicated bus lanes could be a good idea further out of an urban area where land is available.  There is some being built here, Bus Rapid Transit they call it, it will use electric busses.  But folks don't like busses.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2023, 10:46:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/5sMzkHN.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2023, 01:07:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/jjaSkuH.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2023, 05:15:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wz5Q5Bn.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 26, 2023, 05:26:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wz5Q5Bn.png)
That's hilarious. 

I'm not a fan of it, BTW. It's one thing to say "pineapple should never be on pizza", but it's more that it's not a good balance. 

Years back, I was introduced to the pineapple/pepperoni/jalapeno pizza. That's where you get the balance. The sweetness of the pineapple is balanced by the heat of the jalapeno. The acidity of the pineapple is a good foil the fat and grease from the pepperoni. All in all, it actually just works
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 27, 2023, 08:06:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Bank Robber "Baby Face" Nelson Killed in FBI Shootout (1934)
Born Lester Gillis, George "Baby Face" Nelson began his life of crime in his early teens. After a series of auto thefts and bank robberies, Nelson joined the notorious Dillinger gang, which was being pursued by the FBI. Despite his innocent-sounding nickname—given for his youthful appearance and small stature—Nelson hated police and FBI agents and hunted them at every opportunity, a pastime that ultimately led to his undoing.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 27, 2023, 08:33:56 PM
Fort Jefferson in Dry Tortugas National Park, Florida - 1940 vs. 2005



(https://i.imgur.com/HG1uR6V.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2023, 08:41:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iKyX7oZ.png)

I recall when we redid our kitchen in Cincy some folks saying stainless was on the way out.  Seems not, but formica is out.

Formica laminate was invented in 1912 by Daniel J. O'Conor and Herbert A. Faber, while they were working at Westinghouse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Electric_Corporation), resulting in a patent filing on 1 February 1913.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_(plastic)#cite_note-hist-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_(plastic)#cite_note-2) U.S. Patent No. 1,284,432 was granted on 12 November 1918.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_(plastic)#cite_note-3) O'Conor and Faber originally conceived it as a substitute for mica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mica) used as electrical insulation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_insulation), made of wrapped woven fabric coated with Bakelite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite) thermosetting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosetting) resin, then slit lengthwise, flattened, and cured in a press.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2023, 09:21:57 AM
well, the almond and avocado colored appliances are out
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2023, 09:22:07 AM
Shays' Rebellion

Debt-ridden farmers, struck by the economic depression that followed the American Revolution, petitioned the Massachusetts state senate to halt foreclosure of mortgages on their property and imprisonment for debt. When the senate failed to undertake these reforms, armed rebels, led by Daniel Shays and other local leaders, forcibly closed a number of debtors' courts. The rebellion, suppressed in 1787, less than a year after it began
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 28, 2023, 09:50:39 AM
[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/iKyX7oZ.png[/img]

I recall when we redid our kitchen in Cincy some folks saying stainless was on the way out.  Seems not, but formica is out.

Formica laminate was invented in 1912 by Daniel J. O'Conor and Herbert A. Faber, while they were working at Westinghouse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Electric_Corporation), resulting in a patent filing on 1 February 1913.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_(plastic)#cite_note-hist-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_(plastic)#cite_note-2) U.S. Patent No. 1,284,432 was granted on 12 November 1918.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_(plastic)#cite_note-3) O'Conor and Faber originally conceived it as a substitute for mica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mica) used as electrical insulation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_insulation), made of wrapped woven fabric coated with Bakelite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite) thermosetting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosetting) resin, then slit lengthwise, flattened, and cured in a press.
I've glued that stuff to LOTS of countertops I've made.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2023, 08:43:15 PM
not weird

(https://i.imgur.com/huCofq9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 29, 2023, 09:31:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Zong Massacre: Slaves Thrown Overboard (1781)
In 1781, overcrowding, disease, and malnutrition killed several crew members and dozens of African slaves being transported to Jamaica as "cargo" on the British slave ship Zong. Knowing that insurers would not compensate his employers for sick slaves or those dead from illness—but would offer compensation for drowned slaves—the ship's captain decided to throw more than 130 slaves overboard. What landmark decision resulted from the court case that followed?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 29, 2023, 04:51:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/1UmQC1R.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 29, 2023, 05:02:10 PM
weird

I hate Bob Barker!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 29, 2023, 06:06:24 PM
you're gonna taser all the gray hair old dudes??

what did your Gramps do to you?


:043:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2023, 05:29:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/3mKhvIj.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2023, 05:39:04 AM
What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy.

As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions."

"In 1984", Huxley added, "people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure."
In short, Orwell feared that what we hate will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we love will ruin us. ~Neil Postman
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2023, 09:08:00 AM
they were both right
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2023, 09:08:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Steam Locomotive Flying Scotsman Sets Speed Record (1934)
The legendary no. 4472 Flying Scotsman steam locomotive was built by the London and North Eastern Railway in 1923 for use as a long-distance express train. The no. 4472 holds a number of records, including being the first locomotive to complete a nonstop run from London, England, to Edinburgh, Scotland. In 1934, the Flying Scotsman became the first steam locomotive to be officially recorded at 100 mph (160.9 km/h).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2023, 03:42:31 PM
Can you name this Harvard football player?  1968, plaued OL.

(https://i.imgur.com/8EGhsbk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2023, 07:32:34 PM
I'm not much of a movie guy, but looks like Tommy Lee Jones
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 30, 2023, 08:55:16 PM
Looked it up you are correct,no Yuengling I drank it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2023, 07:12:07 AM
It is, at Harvard, played four years, was team MVP twice apparently, as an OL at 195 lbs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 01, 2023, 09:28:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Our Lady of the Angels School Fire (1958)
Shortly before classes were dismissed on December 1, 1958, a fire broke out at the foot of a stairway in the Our Lady of the Angels School in Chicago, Illinois. A total of 92 students and 3 nuns died and another 100 were seriously injured when smoke, heat, and fire cut off their normal means of escape. Many perished jumping from second-floor windows. The tragedy dominated headlines and led to nationwide changes to school fire safety regulations.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 01, 2023, 09:40:23 AM
It is, at Harvard, played four years, was team MVP twice apparently, as an OL at 195 lbs.
looking at the Husker's 68 roster the guards and tackles were in the 220-230 range.
But, the Husker O-line has always been bigger than Harvard's
Boyd Epley started the strength program in 69
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2023, 01:25:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eyyAPPe.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2023, 01:35:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/6JbjoiG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2023, 07:06:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/UOgm3If.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2023, 08:08:46 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Monroe Doctrine (1823)
In his 1823 address to Congress, US President James Monroe laid out the terms of the American foreign policy that would become known as the Monroe Doctrine, effectively declaring the Western Hemisphere off-limits to European colonization. Concerned that European powers would attempt to restore Spain's former colonies, he declared that any attempt by a European power to control any nation in the Western Hemisphere would be viewed as a hostile act.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2023, 10:19:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

World's First Human Heart Transplant (1967)
After studying medicine at the University of Cape Town, South African surgeon Christiaan Barnard came to the US in 1955 to improve his surgical technique. There, he performed his first heart operation before returning to Cape Town, where he was soon appointed director of surgical research at the Groote Schuur Hospital. He made medical history there in 1967 when he completed the world's first human heart transplant on 55-year-old Louis Washkansky.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2023, 09:31:34 PM
Launching ramp at the V-1 flying bomb site at Val Ygot, Normandy, France

(https://i.imgur.com/SwFnG4v.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 04, 2023, 07:23:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

McGurk's Bar Bombing (1971)
One of the first major atrocities of "the Troubles," a period of political violence in Ireland that began in the late 1960s, the bombing of Belfast's predominantly Roman Catholic Tramore Bar—better known as McGurk's—killed 15 people and injured 17. The first major attack on civilians by any of the region's paramilitary organizations, the bombing provoked widespread political and public reaction.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 04, 2023, 03:55:48 PM
Electricity for Atlanta: Six Hydroelectric Dams, A Submerged Town and Silenced Waterfalls – Rabun County Historical Society (rabunhistory.org) (https://rabunhistory.org/articles/electricity-for-atlanta-six-hydroelectric-dams-a-submerged-town-and-silenced-waterfalls/)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 05, 2023, 10:02:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Papal Bull Bestows Authority to Prosecute Witchcraft in Germany (1484)
In 1484, Pope Innocent VIII issued the papal bull Summis desiderantes affectibus—Desiring with supreme ardor. Sometimes blamed for inspiring the witch-hunts that became increasingly common in the coming centuries, the bull recognizes the existence of witches, gives Dominican Inquisitor Heinrich Kramer authority to prosecute witchcraft in Germany, and urges local ecclesiastical authorities to cooperate with inquisitors.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 05, 2023, 01:17:04 PM
2005 on this date utee 94 gave birth to the Beer Thread,killing time between the season and the National Championship.Use to be a hell of a lot more posts,either the herd has been thinned out or ya'll turned into a bunch a teasips
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2023, 07:42:45 AM
I think maybe quite possibly he could be the least heralded scientists after Maxwell who had an impact on things, possibly.

(https://i.imgur.com/hscrgL2.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 06, 2023, 09:31:01 AM
[img width=274.381 height=324]https://i.imgur.com/UOgm3If.png[/img]
Iowa in the Panama Canal.

The Iowa's and all prior US Battleships were limited to a size that could fit through the Panama Canal such that the USN would be able to quickly transfer ships between the Atlantic and the Pacific.

The Iowa Class ships are 108'2" wide so they fit in the 110' wide Panama Canal locks with 22" to spare.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2023, 09:33:43 AM
A ship also can go faster if it's length to width ratio is higher.  This is true even if the width is constant, for a given amount of power of course.  Some argue the Iowas are more akin to battle cruisers, which to me is just arguing over terminology.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 06, 2023, 09:43:02 AM
A ship also can go faster if it's length to width ratio is higher.  This is true even if the width is constant, for a given amount of power of course.  Some argue the Iowas are more akin to battle cruisers, which to me is just arguing over terminology.
For whatever reason the USN is absolutely insistent that they never actually had any "Battlecruisers". 

The USN did authorize and commence construction of six Lexington Class Battlecruisers shortly after WWI but they were not permitted by the Washington Naval Treaty. Four were scrapped before completion and the other two were converted and became the Lexington Class Aircraft Carriers. 

It has been suggested that the North Carolina's, the Iowa's, and the Alaska Class "Large Cruisers" were technically "Battlecruisers". 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2023, 09:46:19 AM
Yup, these are just terms, to me.  Call it a banana if you want.  I like the term "battle cruiser", like in Star Trek.  It sounds, cool.

It's interesting, to me, that submarines today are among the largest displacement naval vessels (the US calls them "boats") aside from carriers.  We don't really have 15,000 ton cruisers any more, maybe the Russians do.  I'd call the Kirov a BC.  

I don't see a good reason to argue over such terms.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2023, 10:31:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/xpQBrpx.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2023, 07:37:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ROMd3Bm.png)

This is higher than I would have guessed.  But maybe it's about right, globally, humans had spread quite a bit by then, like a virus.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2023, 08:44:50 AM
82 years ago this morning about 3,000 Americans were killed in the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2023, 09:10:51 AM
82 years
long time
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2023, 09:11:11 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
"The Blue Marble" Photograph Taken by Apollo 17 Crew (1972)
"The Blue Marble" is a famous photograph of Earth taken by the crew of the Apollo 17 spacecraft while traveling toward the Moon in 1972. So-titled because the Earth resembles a blue marble—accented by swirls of white clouds—the image is among the most widely distributed photographs in history. Depicting a fully lit Earth, the snapshot was originally taken "upside-down," with Antarctica on top, but was rotated before distribution.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2023, 09:18:52 AM
I've visited Pearl Harbor on two occasions and visited the Arizona Memorial, it's quite interesting overall.  The landscape of course is quite different today.  The USS Missouri Memorial is just down the way, I've yet to visit it.

My Dad recalled one time his impressions on seeing Pearl the first time in 1943, he said it was still a scene of devastation, oil on the water (which still is the case).  I gather it made an impression, he was headed to Guadalcanal at the time.  

We're visiting Nagasaki et al. in March, I'm looking at a tour that includes the A bomb memorial site.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2023, 09:26:23 AM
I've visited Pearl Harbor on two occasions and visited the Arizona Memorial, it's quite interesting overall.  The landscape of course is quite different today.  The USS Missouri Memorial is just down the way, I've yet to visit it.
The symbolism of placing the USS Missouri adjacent to the USS Arizona is interesting in multiple ways. 

You have the massive guns of the Mighty Mo overlooking and symbolically protecting the Arizona which remains a tomb for some of those who died 82 years ago this morning. 

You also have a message to potential aggressors. The Arizona is where the Japanese started the war on December 7, 1941 and the deck of the Missouri is the place where the humiliated Japanese signed the instrument of surrender four years later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2023, 09:37:36 AM
This is always a pretty somber day of reflection for me.  December 7th is a day that will live in infamy.  It also happens to be my birthday.  So for my whole life, I've felt a strange connection to the disastrous sneak attack that occurred 82 years ago.

I don't cry much, but when I visited the Arizona Memorial, I couldn't stop myself.  The most grave and somber feeling I've ever experienced washed over me when I stepped foot on that landing.

I continue to wish a restful peace for those that were murdered that day, and their families and loved ones, and also for the entire USA.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2023, 09:39:32 AM
About half of the US deaths at Pearl Harbor occurred aboard the USS Arizona. 

What happened to the Arizona was something called a "catastrophic magazine explosion". An IJN shell carried as a bomb penetrated Arizona's deck armor and detonated the forward magazine. 

The term "catastrophic magazine explosion" is redundant because a magazine explosion is catastrophic by definition. Ships simply cannot survive them. HMS Hood met her demise in the same way as did a number of ships at Jutland a quarter century earlier.

I knew a guy in Medina who was at Pearl Harbor at the time of the attack. He was 17 and had lied about his age to enlist in the Navy. He was assigned to the USS California which sank beneath him that day. He swam through water covered with sometimes burning oil to Ford Island. 

After the attack he was reassigned to a Cruiser and sunk again at Coral Sea. In the first six months of US involvement in WWII he had been sunk twice. 

I have a lunch meeting today where we will be screening a documentary made by our local Cable TV about the aforementioned Veteran. 

One more note about him, just because I thought it was funny. By the time I knew him he was in his late 70's and looked like "grandpa" but one thing hadn't changed in the 60 years between the war and then. He still swore like a sailor. It was jarring because when you looked at "grandpa" you didn't expect that but when he opened his mouth he sounded like he was still in the Navy.

Great guy, passed away about 15 years ago.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2023, 10:00:12 AM
visited the Arizona a few years back

very somber, very emotional
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2023, 10:41:34 AM
Yup, these are just terms, to me.  Call it a banana if you want.  I like the term "battle cruiser", like in Star Trek.  It sounds, cool.

I don't see a good reason to argue over such terms.
I somehow missed this the other day.  I tend to agree with you on the futility of arguing about the terms but I can point you to some historical forums where you can read literally hundreds of posts arguing over what exactly is and is not a Battleship, Battlecruiser, or a "Large Cruiser".  

For the uninitiated, the Battlecruiser concept was born at a time when Battleships were large well armed and well armored ships but FAR too slow to actually force enemy cruisers into battle.  At the time Battleships typically could only obtain around 20-23 knots while typical cruisers were around 10 kn faster.  

Historically Battleships were usually built to what was called the "Balanced Battleship" concept.  That simply means that they were sufficiently armored to resist their own shells.  

Side note, All-or-Nothing Armor:
Originally Battleships were armored from bow to stern.  However, as guns got larger and more powerful it became impossible to build a ship armored from bow to stern against heavy guns that could also carry heavy guns and still be able to float and move.  To solve this riddle, Naval designers came up with the all-or-nothing armor scheme.  This meant that instead of providing armor for the entire ship, only the critical parts of the ship (magazines, engineering spaces, and enough buoyancy to keep the ship afloat) were armored.  The rest of the ship had virtually no armor at all.  This is why, for example, Wisconsin collapsed her entire bow in the 1950's.  There wasn't any armor up there.  

Back to the ships.  Battlecruisers were conceived largely to be able to take out enemy cruisers.  Battleships were more-or-less incapable of this since cruisers were so much faster so they could simply run away.  The general concept of a Battlecruiser was a ship with the armament of a Battleship and the speed of a Cruiser.  The idea was that it could destroy anything it couldn't outrun and outrun anything it couldn't destroy.  In order to accomplish this, armor was sacrificed.  

The only class of ships ever officially authorized for the USN as a Battlecruiser was the Lexington Class authorized in 1916.  Six ships were laid down but none were finished as Battlecruisers.  When the Washington Naval Treaty came into force the USN scrapped four without completing them and converted the other two into the Lexington Class Aircraft Carriers Lexington and Saratoga.  Lexington was sunk at Coral Sea, Saratoga survived the war and was sunk in the atomic tests at Bikini.  

As Battlecruisers the Lexington's would have had eight 16" guns and a 5-7" armor belt.  Compare that to twelve 16" guns and a 8-13.5" armor belt for contemporary USN Battleship designs.  What the Lexington's would have gotten for the reduced armor is a LOT more speed.  Contemporary USN Battleships had a top speed of 23 kn while the Lexington Class Battlecruisers would have been able to attain 33+ kn.  

At the Battle of Jutland both the Germans and the British used their Battlecruisers as effectively "fast battleships".  They wanted to use them because they had big guns like the Battleships but several of them exploded in the battle because they were not armored sufficiently to take on their own size shells.  This wasn't a design failure so much as a misuse.  The Battlecruisers had not been designed to stand in a line and slug it out with equivalently armed ships.  The designed intention was for them to run away from anything with equivalent guns.  In wartime practice the Admirals wanted as many big guns as they could get so all the big gun ships had to stand and slug it out even though the Battlecruisers were known to be incapable of actually doing this.  

Thus began the process of creating a "Fast Battleship".  The Iowa's (built ~20 years later) had armor comparable to the old USN Battleships AND speed comparable to the never-completed Lexington Class Battlecruisers.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2023, 11:03:41 AM
It's amazing to note how few naval battles were fought since 1900 that really involved the use of ships designed for that purpose, probably including aircraft carriers until later in WW2.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2023, 01:49:29 PM
Here is a little tidbit that fits the "Weird History" topic of this thread:

The first shots at Pearl Harbor were fired by the USN and the first sinking at Pear Harbor was a small IJN Submarine being sunk by the USS Ward.  This happened a few hours before the main attack and I'm just typing the story from memory so details could be a little fuzzy.  

The harbor had a submarine net.  These were steel "nets" strung across the harbor entrance to prevent enemy submarines from getting into the Harbor.  This was already known to be important because in the early days of the European war a German U-Boat had managed to get into the British anchorage at Scapa Flow and sink the British Battleship Royal Oak.  

The Submarine nets had to be opened to allow friendly ships to get into and out of the harbor.  Early on the morning of December 7 a USN ship was entering the Harbor and lookouts reported that they had sighted a periscope and they believed that a submarine was attempting to get through the open net with them.  The Destroyer USS Ward was assigned to investigate and the USS Ward spotted and fired upon what they believed was a submarine.  The Ward dutifully reported this to the base.  

The PH base command obviously didn't take the Ward's report seriously.  If they had, the base could have been prepared for attack but it wasn't, why not?  

To understand this you have to understand a bit about the military.  It is typical in pretty much all militaries for the "career" guys to look down on the "reserve" guys.  In the USN, the career guys are almost exclusively US Naval Academy grads with (back then) a sprinkling of Ivy League guys mixed in.  They not only think they are smarter than the "reserve" guys, they also look at them as "weekend warriors".  The USS Ward was operated by a reserve unit from Minnesota.  Now if you've ever talked to a Minnesotan you know that they don't sound like Naval Academy/Ivy League guys.  

The USS Ward's Minnesota Naval Reserve crew got on the radio and probably said "We sunk a submarine, eh" and the Base Command which would have been all (or almost all) Naval Academy/Ivy League guys probably rolled laughing thinking that the "hicks" from Minnesota had shot a porpoise or dolphin.  So Base Command didn't take the notice seriously.  

Even after the attack and after the war a lot of people still doubted that the Ward had actually sunk a Japanese submarine early on the morning of December 7.  Decades after the attack the harbor entrance was being dredged and a miniature IJN Submarine was recovered.  The submarine had a 5" shell hole in the sail just below the periscope which was the size of Ward's guns and the place where the Ward's crew stated that they hit the submarine that nobody believed they had sunk all those years prior.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2023, 04:27:46 PM
https://www.theunion.com/news/remembering-the-day-of-infamy-grass-valleys-lou-conter-last-remaining-survivor-of-uss-arizona/article_c54a9932-948b-11ee-a167-bb12d9822564.html

Only one USS Arizona survivor is still alive. 

The youngest WWII veterans were born in 1927 and the few of them still alive celebrate their 96th birthday this year. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on December 07, 2023, 07:43:17 PM
Every December 7, the first time I look at the date, whether on a calendar, my phone, an email, whatever, I still hear FDR's voice, and say "A day that will live in infamy"--normally out loud to myself.

I've probably shared this before, but most of my family that served in WWII were in the Army. My grandfather came to the island hopping a little later on (he was taking his first semester law school exams the week of December 8-12, then was stationed as a coast artilleryman defending California's coast), with the return to the Philippines. One of my uncles was a tanker who fought in the Bulge and saw the aftermath of Dresden. My great grandfather--and the father-in-law of the one island hopping, father of the tanker--commanded supply ships in the Pacific. He was a Captain (for those who don't know--a very senior officer in the Navy, one step below the first Admiral rank) throughout the war, was promoted to Rear Admiral (one star) at the end of the war, and died very shortly thereafter of a heart attack, I think. Grandpa (son-in-law) was invited to his ship to dine while they were both in the Philippines. 

Anyway, Grandpa always used to say, "the Admiral saw more action in the war than all of us boys, combined." As a supply ship commander, he was involved in several campaigns getting the LSTs to the beach, which meant coming under fire much of the time. He was at Guadalcanal, Luzon, and several other large landings. Family lore is that he was one of the architects of the method the Navy devised for getting men and material onto the beach under fire.

Towards the end of her life (she died three years ago just after turning 100), my grandmother (daughter of "the Admiral") told my son and me about sitting around the family table and hearing the adults discuss (and fear) the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau battlecruisers during the late 30s. For a kid who was fascinated by naval warfare, my son ate that up.

Naval duty was hard, with long periods of boredom, but hard work, on the open sea, and short bursts of terror, while most of the sailors were relying on other people to do the shooting, and hoping the big stuff wouldn't hit them.

I can't imagine visiting the Arizona without being profoundly moved. I certainly was.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 08, 2023, 08:44:38 AM
My Dad was in the USAAF, was radar operator on a B24 in the south Pacific that went down at some point.  He much later was awarded a PH.  He thought it had to have been enemy fire, but realistically I suspect it was engine problems.  Three of the crew of 10 survived floating in the ocean and were picked up by a US destroyer the next day.

The psychology back then of front line troops is fascinating to me, there was a saying "Golden Gate in 48", meaning they had five more years of war ahead of them and minimal chances of survival.  My Dad talked about big poker game that got played, he said he never played.

It's a bit odd really, but as noted above, a Captain in the Navy is the same rank as a Colonel in the Marines/Army (O6).  Similarly, a Lieutenant in the Navy is the same rank as a Captain in the Marines/Army (O3).  This can lead to some confusion when answering phones for example.

In between the Navy has Lt. Commander and Commander.

I always thought it odd that a Lt General outranks a Major General while a Major is well ahead of a first Lt.

So, while I never served, I am in possession of two Purple Hearts.  I also was given a "rifle Expert" medal by a Marine Major a while back, somewhat long story, and I found out last week he passed on at a way too early age, retired as a Lt. Colonel.  I shared a few stories privately with his wife but was unable to make the service.

He was a very fine fellow, Lt. Colonel Kirk Greiner.

Obituary information for LtCol. Kirk A. Greiner (springgroveobituaries.org) (https://www.springgroveobituaries.org/obituaries/LtCol-Kirk-A-Greiner?obId=29889768)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 08, 2023, 09:57:46 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

John Lennon Shot by Mark David Chapman (1980)
While returning to his New York hotel with wife Yoko Ono one evening, John Lennon was shot and killed by Mark David Chapman, a delusional and possibly psychotic Beatles fan. Chapman eventually elected not to pursue an insanity defense and instead pled guilty to the murder, receiving a sentence of 20 years to life in prison. He has since been denied parole on several occasions. Rather than flee the scene after shooting Lennon, Chapman hung around and read a book until police arrived
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 08, 2023, 10:09:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

John Lennon Shot by Mark David Chapman (1980)
While returning to his New York hotel with wife Yoko Ono one evening, John Lennon was shot and killed by Mark David Chapman, a delusional and possibly psychotic Beatles fan. Chapman eventually elected not to pursue an insanity defense and instead pled guilty to the murder, receiving a sentence of 20 years to life in prison. He has since been denied parole on several occasions. Rather than flee the scene after shooting Lennon, Chapman hung around and read a book until police arrived
This is a gift to @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) :

John Lennon was shot multiple times and killed while Yoko Ono was right next to him and unscathed. That is a strong argument that there can't be a God.

Speaking of:
Q: What does the Dyslexic Agnostic Insomniac do?

A: He lies awake ⏰️ in bed 🛌 all night wondering if there really is a Dog 🐕 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 09, 2023, 09:49:08 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

America's First Serving African-American Governor Takes Office (1872)
Born to a former slave and a white planter, Pinckney Pinchback was America's first African-American governor. During the American Civil War, he raised and led a company of black Union volunteers, called the Corps d'Afrique, in Union-held New Orleans. After the war, he was elected to the Louisiana senate and served as lieutenant governor. In 1872, he became governor when Henry Warmoth was impeached.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 10, 2023, 06:31:44 AM
One of the less bright ideas in WW 2:

82 Years Ago Today - HMS Prince of Wales & HMS Repulse are sunk by Japanese aircraft off of Malaya - December 10, 1941

327 Personnel perished when HMS Prince of Wales sank, including Admiral Phillips and Captain Leach.
508 Personnel perished when HMS Repulse Sank.



(https://i.imgur.com/Htc37IQ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 10, 2023, 02:15:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gnb2jrc.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2023, 02:17:09 PM
ya see why VY didn't get the trophy?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 10, 2023, 02:25:40 PM
One of the less bright ideas in WW 2:

82 Years Ago Today - HMS Prince of Wales & HMS Repulse are sunk by Japanese aircraft off of Malaya - December 10, 1941

327 Personnel perished when HMS Prince of Wales sank, including Admiral Phillips and Captain Leach.
508 Personnel perished when HMS Repulse Sank.

Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2023, 02:27:16 PM
Tommie Frazier didn't get one either

1995 - Tommie
Comp -92
Att - 163
Pct - 56.4
yards - 1362
TDs - 17
INTs - 4
Rating - 156
____________________

Atts - 97
Yards - 604
Avg - 6.2
TDs - 14
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 10, 2023, 02:41:26 PM
ya see why VY didn't get the trophy?
VY has gotten the old-timey halo treatment.  What does that mean?
A great player's reputation is absurdly elevated based on one fantastic game that everyone sees.
Like Roger Staubach.
Like Archie Manning.
It was much more prevalent back in the day. 
.
VY was an okay passer.  A 163 rating is very good, but it's not all-time great.  He was an all-time great scrambler, but that's sort of a back-handed compliment for a QB.
His reputation is inflated due to his all-timer of a game vs USC.  The perceived slight of not winning the Heisman is also part of it.
But through no fault of his own, he lost the Heisman to arguably the best RB season ever.
Reggie Bush averaged 8.7 ypc on 200 carries.  And the receiving.  And the returns.  Only 1 other RB on a P5 team ever had a better ypc average on as many carries:  1971 Greg Pruitt, on an option offense.
Everyone else with a better ypc average had fewer carries or played on a G5 team.
So it's not like they just gave the trophy to some dude having an okay season.




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2023, 02:52:02 PM
yup, like TD Tommie's game vs the Gators

199 yards and two TDs on 16 carries. His yards were Nebraska bowl and Fiesta Bowl records for most yards rushing and set an NCAA bowl record for most yards rushing by a QB.

broken by Vince in the Rose
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 10, 2023, 04:35:48 PM
Correct.  
And the average fan doesn't realize his 75-yard run was due to the defenders attempting to strip the ball and failing to actually try to tackle him.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 10, 2023, 05:41:07 PM
Correct. 
And the average fan doesn't realize his 75-yard run was due to the defenders attempting to strip the ball and failing to actually try to tackle him.
Whoa Nellie what a deflection, nothing to with strength,endurance,ability just a jaded team that didn't want to be there.Mmkay
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2023, 08:46:03 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

The United Nations passed the "Convention on the Law of the Sea" in 1994 and is now the recognized governing body in all legal matters concerning the world's oceans.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2023, 08:55:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/42kH3tz.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2023, 09:08:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Adolf Eichmann Found Guilty of War Crimes (1961)
Adolf Eichmann was a high-ranking Nazi official who oversaw the maltreatment, deportation, and murder of millions of Jews during World War II. He promoted the use of gas chambers for the mass extermination of Jews in concentration camps and is considered to be largely responsible for the logistics of the Final Solution, which was the Nazi policy to exterminate millions of people. At the end of World War II, Eichmann went into hiding.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 11, 2023, 10:34:26 AM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
Churchill certainly made mistakes in WWII and both before (Dardenelles campaign was his baby in WWI and an unmitigated disaster) and after (Suez although not technically his, had his handprints on it).

They said, this criticism is wrong on several counts and just generally misdirected and unfair.

First, while Churchill's government did order Repulse and POW to Singapore, they did that to show resolve in the hopes of deterring Japanese aggression. That obviously failed but I would argue that it was worth a try.

Second, the implication that Prime Minister Churchill exercised day-by-day tactical control over warships operating out of a base almost half-way around the world from Downing Street is absurd.

Third, Churchill's orders regarding the two ships were obviously issued LONG before Pearl Harbor. The ships left England weeks before Pearl Harbor and Churchill's control ended then.

Fourth, Repulse and POW were not sent without air cover. They were sent with a carrier but it suffered damage and had to stop for repairs.

Fifth, Churchill would reasonably have assumed that Repulse and POW could operate under air cover provided from Singapore and other British bases in the region. The local command decided to send them beyond the range of that cover.

Sixth, in hindsight it was obviously ludicrous to send Repulse and POW beyond their air cover but that wasn't realized until after they met their demise. At Pearl Harbor and at Taranto before that IJN and RN planes had sunk and damaged heavy ships but a lot of people still thought that was because the ships were caught by surprise and unable to maneuver. The first heavy ships ever sunk at sea by air power alone were . . .

Repulse and Prince of Wales.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2023, 10:58:22 AM
I agree, and the Dardanelles was a solid strategic concept, just very very poorly handled.

The Japanese used mostly Nell bombers and some newer Bettys, land based twin engine, as I recall, able to launch torpedoes.  I should look it up.

The were in range of air cover but it arrived too late.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 11, 2023, 11:45:22 AM
I agree, and the Dardanelles was a solid strategic concept, just very very poorly handled.

The Japanese used mostly Nell bombers and some newer Bettys, land based twin engine, as I recall, able to launch torpedoes.  I should look it up.

The were in range of air cover but it arrived too late.
I didn't explain what I meant with "beyond their air cover" very well. 

You are correct, the Repulse and POW were within the flight range of some British aircraft but there were not enough aircraft to cover the distance AND maintain a constant air cover.

That the air cover arrived too late is due to an inherent flaw in the plan. If you don't have air cover in place then it can only be brought in when needed and called for. By the time you need it, it is too late to call for it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on December 11, 2023, 03:08:43 PM
Churchill was the leader the world needed, which makes him a hero to many (including me). He was also human, and, as a result, flawed.

Shocking, I know.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2023, 12:23:22 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
First Transatlantic Radio Signal Received (1901)
Marconi was the Nobel Prize-winning Italian creator of the radio telegraph system. At 21, while experimenting with a homemade apparatus, he successfully sent signals across a distance of more than a mile and set off to London with his mother to find support for his work. He patented his system, organized a company to develop its commercial applications, and, in 1901, transmitted the first transatlantic wireless signal.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2023, 11:26:11 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

World's Tallest Vehicular Bridge Formally Dedicated (2004)
The Millau Viaduct is the world's highest road bridge, peaking at a height of 1,125 ft (343 m) and stretching across 8,071 ft (2,460 m). Designed by British architect Norman Foster and French structural engineer Michel Virlogeux, the cable-stayed, multispan steel structure crosses the Tarn River near the town of Millau in southern France. After more than a decade of planning and construction, the bridge was inaugurated by French president Jacques Chirac in 2004.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2023, 12:08:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/xns1NOt.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 14, 2023, 04:27:05 PM
Third, Churchill's orders regarding the two ships were obviously issued LONG before Pearl Harbor. The ships left England weeks before Pearl Harbor and Churchill's control ended then.So situation changed and they went ahead as Pearl Harbor was still smoking - DUMB.Irrelevant when they left or orders were issued there was now a clear and present danger.With a whole Island pummeled two ships would be target pratice

Fourth, Repulse and POW were not sent without air cover. They were sent with a carrier but it suffered damage and had to stop for repairs.So no air power in other words - DUMB.And still forged ahead

Fifth, Churchill would reasonably have assumed that Repulse and POW could operate under air cover provided from Singapore and other British bases in the region. And what happens when someone ASSUMES?

Sixth, in hindsight it was obviously ludicrous to send Repulse and POW beyond their air cover but that wasn't realized until after they met their demise. At Pearl Harbor and at Taranto before that IJN and RN planes had sunk and damaged heavy ships but a lot of people still thought that was because the ships were caught by surprise and unable to maneuver. The above statements are not hindsight that should be was an obvious blunder not factoring in the reasults of just 3 days earlier.Japan had at least 18 carriers at that time and w/o knowing their location well that was just DUMB
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2023, 04:53:34 PM
The British ships were not sunk by carrier aircraft, as I noted above.  And they were in range of air cover, they just didn't have it when it mattered.  The British had Buffalos, an obsolete US fighter with limited range and loiter time.

So, effectively, they had no air cover (duh). Admiral Phillips gave the orders to sally forth under those conditions, it wouldn't have been Churchill directly.  They apparently were attempting to intercept a naval invasion force.  Bear in mind also they feared being caught in port unable to manuever or get up steam by bombers (as with Pearl Harbor).  The admiral believed that Japanese bombers would be unable to effectively attack capital ships, and he was way too late to call for air cover, a serious, critical mistake.

Following the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor (https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/museums/nmusn/explore/photography/wwii/wwii-pacific/us-entry-into-wwii-japanese-offensive/1941-december-7-japanese-attack-on-pearl-harbor.html), the Japanese landed in northern Malaya (https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/museums/nmusn/explore/photography/wwii/wwii-pacific/us-entry-into-wwii-japanese-offensive/1941-december-8-1942-january-31-malayan-campaign.html) on December 8.  The Royal Navy battleship, HMS Prince of Wales and battlecruiser HMS Repulse, along with four destroyers were sent to attack the invasion force.  In the late morning of December 10, after finding no targets, the Royal Navy ships were returning to Singapore and were attacked and sunk by Japanese bombers and torpedo planes.    Having no aerial defense, the ships became the first Allied warships sunk by air attack while operating on the high-seas in the Pacific War.  

The Repulse and Prince of Wales Battleships: How They Sunk (warfarehistorynetwork.com) (https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/the-repulse-and-prince-of-wales-battleships-how-they-sunk/)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 14, 2023, 05:53:02 PM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) 
Your post is riddled with errors.  You can say that Churchill made some dumb decisions without criticizing him for things that were not dumb at the time, not his decision, neither, or some combination.  

@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) said:
"So situation changed (PH) and they went ahead as Pearl Harbor was still smoking - DUMB.  Irrelevant when hey left or orders were issued there was now a clear and present danger.  With a whole Island pummeled two ships would be target practice"

@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) said:
"So no air power in other words - DUMB. And still forged ahead"
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) said:
"And what happens when someone ASSUES?"

@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) said:  
"The above statements are not hindsight that should be was an obvious blunder not factoring in the reasults(sic) of just 3 days earlier.  Japan had at least 18 carriers at that time and w/o knowing their location well that was just DUMB".  

*See discussion above with @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) about the range of their own air cover.  They were not technically out of range of aircraft based at Singapore, the problem was they were too far for the planes available at Singapore to maintain constant air cover over them.  Singapore could only provide air cover for a limited time (due to the fuel used to fly back and forth) so they only had air cover when called for which was inherently too late.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 14, 2023, 08:08:55 PM

@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17)
Your post is riddled with errors.  You can say that Churchill made some dumb decisions without criticizing him for things that were not dumb at the time, not his decision, neither, or some combination. 

Sorry your opinions are no matter who sent them they sit on the bottom not hard to process. Some one in the admiralty should have stopped them bad move this was a huge discussion on YT boards.You have many good takes - this isn't one of them.The RN were used to chasing the much smaller Kriegs marine around that had neither air power or nearly advanced torpedo bombers or effective torpedoes of Yamamoto's NAVY.W/O looking it up how many fighters(Planes) were at Singapore? And what was their range and where the hell were they?DUMB
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 14, 2023, 09:23:09 PM
no matter who sent them they sit on the bottom not hard to process.
Wrong again:
Actually Repulse and POW no longer sit on the bottom. They've been scrapped by illegal salvageres. It was a bit of a diplomatic issue not too long ago because the British consider them to be war graves and the scrapping/salvage violated International Law and Maratime treaties.

That said, your point was that they were sunk and obviously that is correct. However your odd obsession with blaming the British Prime Minister specifically for their loss is patently absurd.

Maybe you have finally backed off of that?
Some one in the admiralty should have stopped them
?


this was a huge discussion on YT boards.
I don't know what this is but I've been involved in several discussions of the loss of the two ships.

In hindsight, sending Repulse and POW beyond effective air cover was obviously a mistake but @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) and I have both pointed out that Repulse and POW were the first Capital Ships to be sunk by air attack while operating at sea. Taranto and Pearl Harbor were different in that the ships were caught at anchor ⚓️ without the ability to maneuver.

The sinking of those two ships along with the later sinking of most of the rest of the IJN obviously proved that it WAS possible but that was only a theory until it happened.

Hindsight is 20/20 but that doesn't mean that the people on the scene at the time were "DUMB" because they didn't have it.
The RN were used to chasing the much smaller Kriegs marine around that had neither air power or nearly advanced torpedo bombers or effective torpedoes of Yamamoto's.
Yes . . . which is why they hadn't yet realized, on day four of the Pacific War that this was different.
W/O looking it up how many fighters(Planes) were at Singapore? And what was their range and where the hell were they?DUMB
Without looking it up, about 150 and they weren't great planes. Given that Britain had fought the Battle of Britain for their survival and that they were still fighting a much more strategically important battle to maintain their supply line through Suez, Singapore specifically and the Far East generally were not high priorities to them. Thus, the first rate Spitfires and second rate Hurricanes were more urgently needed elsewhere so the planes in Singapore were not up to modern standards.

The British AND the Americans *THOUGHT* that wouldn't matter because they were unaware of Japanese aircraft capabilities. They were only partially wrong. The Japanese aircraft were wildly successful early on, but only until the Allies learned their strengths and weaknesses, after that they were flying coffins for their crews.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 14, 2023, 10:37:22 PM
Had some wild discussions on other boards as it has been about 5 yrs when I last looked this stuff up.Look you dressed me down about Churchill when he was indeed the culprit.Churchill wanted a show of force to deter aggression in the south china sea and he didn't listen to his admiralty ,he listened to the foreign secretary Anthonty Eden.It's that type of depraved insight that almost drove Alan Brooke to stepping down later.I don't need to scribble a dissertation and please no crappy analogies about Car factories WTH was that?

Things had been ramping up in Europe in the mediteranean and N.Africa and that is where the focus and hardware went chasing/looking for the Tirpitz and subs leaving a shell of a covering force in the S.China Sea.The IJN had 20 destroyers in the area and the RN had 4 didn't stop Winnie though. Again they KNEW the Japanese might was not in doubt after Pearl.The BEF had 3 days notice yet still ordered to steam toward Singapore and disaster but those poor sailors were still sent - 837 crewman died with over a thousand picked up. This fools arrand shouldn't have been considered let alone launched. The IJF honed their skills since 1937 against china and were well drilled and coordinated. The very 1st Torpedo raid crippled the Prince of Wales with 2 strikes then many small raids criss crossed both vessels. A whole 11 RAF planes were sent when the Repulse had been pounced upon and sent out an sos by the time those planes arrived there were oil slicks as both the Repulse and P.O.W. slipped beneath the waves

All over from Vietnam to Malaya to Burma to Hong Kong was crawling with Japanese Subs and air cover from mostly land based bombers/fighters in Malaya that changed out their land strayfing arsenal and went hunting with armor piercing bombs and their latest topedoes. Churchills show of force bluff backfired the Naval Base built at Singapore wasn't sufficient. Also just a couple months later Singapore fell with 81,000 BEF troops surrendering to 34,000 IJF that were almost out of ammo but Percival couldn't know that but evidently again where was the air cover if it was sufficient as you suggested in one of those posts? Not enough evidently nor was it the ground forces fault. These piss poor decisions were made right at the top over the heads of the officers left to plan and impliment them

It's just like the ass MacArthur knew damn well of the Pearl attack and George Marshall's  directive was ignored that ANY belligerence shown on the part of IJF  should be met with force. That asshole Dug Out Doug ignored 3-4 warnings the morning of Dec 8th and by the time he decided to do a damn thing around 10:30-11:00 am Clarke Field got hammered by Japanese bombers and flattened .Had he listened to his JRs and Marshall at least 50 planes could have been in the air
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2023, 11:50:35 PM
Lotta typing 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 15, 2023, 12:11:28 AM
However your odd obsession with blaming the British Prime Minister specifically for their loss is patently absurd.
Churchill was as important in a war room as an accordian is in a tree stand hunting Deer.The man was a menace you're not well read here or simply ignoring historical fact.Do you have any clue the misguided decisions and flat out distortions he told/demanded?Do you know who General Richard O'Connor was?The Original Desert Fox that's who unlike the yapping jackel Montgomery later on this man understood modern mobile warfare and combined arms that was emerging in the 40s. OConnor had taken a force of 35-36,000 troops and routed a much bigger Italian army(130-150,000 troops) during Operation Compass in Egypt/Libya. He took 115,000 prisoners,400 tanks and 1300 artillary pieces

 So how does the brandy adled Winston reward him? After Reinforcements arrived and they are refitting,Churchill took 50,000 troops from O'Connor and sent them to Greece and Crete. Where by June just 4 months later both Greece and Crete fell and Richard O'Connor was taken prisoner by the Germans.Historians suggest because of the massive exodus of troops he was reconoitering/scouting and driving to forward field HQ basically unguarded.So you see what you call and absurd obsession is but an accurate observation. He ignored his admirals about the Pacific then takes over half a man's army and you think that misguided orb is somehow a soldier/statesman?

  Winnie told FDR when he was wooing the USA to do his empire's bidding "Germany First" this right after Pearl Harbor. So with Guderian,Manstein and Rommel 25 miles across the Channel runs 3000 miles away into the Desert - ya maked perfect sense.Then Sicily,then Italy - remember the soft under belly theory. Stalin by this time was ready to strangle him. And the thing is Churchill wanted to keep going east Balkans/Greece/Crete even Turkey using the GIs as sandbags of course. Thankfully George Marshall told him "not one GI is going to die in the god damned adriatic". Even Alan Brooke Britains top Officer was going ballistic at Churchill's hair brained schemes - read his memoirs. Churchill thought going over the Alps would be easier than a going against a nowhere near finished Atlantic wall. Colonel Hogan had more  military acumen

Maybe you have finally backed off of that?? If you want to be condescending about it,I've back off of nothing - I should be charging you for this

In hindsight, sending Repulse and POW beyond effective air cover was obviously a mistake but @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) and I have both pointed out that Repulse and POW were the first Capital Ships to be sunk by air attack while operating at sea. Taranto and Pearl Harbor were different in that the ships were caught at anchor ⚓️ without the ability to maneuver. "Sigh" again they had 3 days to think this thru and still sent those ships.Just like going to war about Poland there was no way the British could either sustain or win operations there.Same in the South China Sea

The sinking of those two ships along with the later sinking of most of the rest of the IJN obviously proved that it WAS possible but that was only a theory until it happened.Pearl wasn't a theory and they were accutely aware of that and went ahead - quit ignoring that fact to shoehorn your point into the narrative - a much bigger fleet got obliterated and the British were well aware of it and still ordered those boats forward

Hindsight is 20/20 but that doesn't mean that the people on the scene at the time were "DUMB" No your dismissal of my point was dumb as you gussy up your views and present it as set in stone

The British AND the Americans *THOUGHT* that wouldn't matter because they were unaware of Japanese aircraft capabilities. They were only partially wrong. The Japanese aircraft were wildly successful early on, but only until the Allies learned their strengths and weaknesses, after that they were flying coffins for their crews.They knew damn well the size of the Imperial Japanese Navy,back in the '20s it was speculated war with the Empire was probable and also knew that Yamamoto was educated in the USA - when that meant something.What they couldn't know was that IJFs would attack before a declaration of war was sent - glad we got that all cleared up
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 15, 2023, 07:06:39 AM
Lotta typing

Yeah, TLDR is kinda my thing.  I'm considering legal action.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 15, 2023, 07:27:04 AM
Well that is MB's M.O. which is fine to a point but to clear up misconceptions I had to go that route
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 08:00:13 AM
People make mistakes during conflicts.  It's amazing anyone ever wins one.

Even when you win, you lose.

Churchill dispached these ships thinking it would deter the Japanese from going to war.  He was obviously wrong.  The Admiral mishandled them thinking they could not be sunk by aircraft.  He was wrong.  Two AC carriers were not employed to assist, one due to breakdown and one without reason.  That was wrong.  Singapore's main guns had only armor piercing shells completely not useful for repelling a land attack by infantry, that was wrong.  The Japanese attacked the US, that was wrong.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 15, 2023, 08:16:05 AM
The Japanese attacked the US, that was wrong.

Not that I'm complaining, but I think Japan's biggest mistake in attacking the US wass not going all in.  They caught us by surprise and had the opportunity to do far more before we could reasonably mobilize a response, but retreated instead of having planned a more thorough, devastating assault.  Almost like they just wanted to send a message.  Granted, I understand that long-distance warfare was not so easily waged for them at that time, but most military history stuff I've read has opined they could've hurt us a lot worse.  So maybe being "wrong" was in not committing instead of attacking at all.  When you come across a bear sleeping, you stab its heart and throat as much as you can and hope you weather the storm.  You don't kick it in the balls and run away.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 08:24:13 AM
A lot has been written about a third strike at Pearl that never happened.  One issue the Japanese had after Pearl was "what to do next", and they did squander their resources by attacking in the Indian Ocean and dithering, not using their full strength to hit something strategic.  They did have a lot of constraints, oil being a major one.  Their reason for going to war was oil, mainly, and the Phillipines as US territory.

If we didn't "own" the PI they probably would have left us alone.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 15, 2023, 08:39:07 AM
Pretty sure the US Government was in the process of pulling out of the Phillipines but were actually asked to stay by them becuase of growing hostilities(from what I had read)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 08:42:31 AM
We were in the process of reinforcing the PI with troops and planes.  That was a threat to Japanese supply lines that could not be ignored, they thought.  We had recently transferred the 4th Marines from China to the PI, and sent MacArthur over as well, with B-17s.

I lean to thinking were we not in the PI, the Japanese could have secured oil supplies in SE Asia without feeling a need to attack the US.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 15, 2023, 09:29:18 AM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) :

Cincy and I have repeatedly pointed out your errors and you have completely and utterly failed to address our points.  Now you've gone on a long rant about basically everything Churchill ever did wrong which is completely and utterly irrelevant to the question at hand.  

There are many valid criticisms of Winston Churchill but sending Repulse and POW out from Singapore without air cover is NOT one of them for two reasons which have been pointed out to you repeatedly and you have utterly failed to address but I'll post them one more time:


Sending Repulse and POW TO Singapore might actually have been Churchill's decision.  That was done before Pearl Harbor so your whole argument that he should have known better based on what happened at Pearl Harbor is dismissed.  

You didn't bother to get the facts right, but one *COULD* argue that sending the two ships to Singapore was a mistake because they were not enough to stop the Japanese. I'd address that argument by saying that they weren't actually sent there to STOP the Japanese, they were sent to deter the Japanese.  

It is abundantly obvious that Repulse and POW were not enough to stop the Japanese.  That wasn't the point.  The point was to add them to the already existing fleet of the RN, Netherlands, Australia, and the USN.  By the way, FDR had been pressing Britain to send heavy units to the Far East because he felt that deterrence had a chance so I suppose he is a moron too.  

In 20/20 hindsight it obviously didn't work but at the time sending (and therefore risking) two ships in an effort to avoid a war that ended up killing millions was worth the risk.  


Finally I will address one more time your odd assertion that the lessons of Pearl Harbor should have been learned and thus saved Repulse and POW.  

First, as @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) and I have now repeatedly pointed out, the ships damaged and sunk at Pearl Harbor, just like the ships damaged and sunk at Taranto, were stuck in their harbors lacking freedom of maneuver.  At that time that was seen as a big factor.  The admirals of the day thought that ships on the high seas would be much better able to defend themselves.  In our 20/20 hindsight we know that freedom of maneuver by itself wasn't enough but you are asserting that the decision maker was not merely mistaken but an absolute fool for not realizing that in advance.  This is silly.  

Second, you have repeatedly pointed out the three days between PH and the loss of Repulse and POW.  This argument is obviously not logically sound.  The Repulse and POW were known and operating as "Force Z".  Force Z was sent out of Singapore on the evening of December 8.  Now you might think that was the day after Pearl Harbor but if you do, you are wrong again.  Singapore, like Japan, is on the other side of the International Date Line so the Pearl Harbor attack occurred in the early morning hours of December 8 in Singapore.  So we are not talking about 72 hours nor even 48, Force Z was sent out of Singapore about 12 hours after the Pearl Harbor attack began.  

Do you see the flaw in your understanding here yet?  When Force Z left Singapore the smoke hadn't cleared at Pearl Harbor yet.  The idea that the commander of a British Naval base thousands of miles away was supposed to have already been informed of exactly what happened and then to figure out the correct lessons to take from that and then to make the appropriate adjustments in fleet tactics and doctrine within well under 12 hours after the attack ended doesn't deserve a response.  This notion of yours is absurd on it's face.  


@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) said:
"If you want to be condescending about it, I've backed off of nothing - I should be charging you for this".  

I asked if you had learned from @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) 's and my patient explanations that Heads of State are NOT responsible for local tactical decisions.  It seemed that *MAYBE* you had because you changed from "Churchill was ass" to "Someone should have stopped them".  

Look, I don't totally disagree with your attacks on Churchill.  He DEFINITELY made a lot of mistakes.  Cincy's and my argument here was simply that THIS wasn't one of them.  If you have learned that then Cincy and I have taught you something so good for us and we are not even trying to charge you.  

Your repeated reference to this "IJF" is another error.  The IJN and IJA were the Imperial Japanese Navy and Imperial Japanese Army.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 10:00:15 AM
There was a term back then called "battleship diplomacy".  The idea was that a  BB or two would so awe the "locals" that they'd never dream of contesting with the Great Power.  The Japanese military was viewed at the time as pretty backward and irrelevant, so two large capital ships was seen as one means of deterrence, without fighting (as war with Japan had not happened yet).  

The mishandling of these ships by the Admiral is duly noted, had he managed more capably, they would likely have survived, though whether they would have made any impact later is uncertain.  The gambit didn't work because the Japanese had already attacked and war had broken out anyway.  And the IJN and IJA were far more capable than the British or Americans had dreamed.

(I think maybe IJF just means japanese forces of whatever type.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 15, 2023, 11:29:55 AM
If we didn't "own" the PI they probably would have left us alone.

So you're saying Japan's fleet was flagged for pass interference and after the 15 yard penalty they couldn't convert, so they punted and waited for our offense?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 12:14:44 PM
I guess, I've had a notion for a while that the PI caused Japan to attack us.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 15, 2023, 12:24:22 PM
I guess, I've had a notion for a while that the PI caused Japan to attack us.
It was two things:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 12:26:01 PM
Imagine Japan doesn't attack us and we're not on the PI.  They go ahead and take over Borneo and Indonesia, nobody really would do more than yell at them.  They secure their oil supplies, and go on as usual.  What else did they need?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 15, 2023, 01:41:21 PM
Imagine Japan doesn't attack us and we're not on the PI.  They go ahead and take over Borneo and Indonesia, nobody really would do more than yell at them.  They secure their oil supplies, and go on as usual.  What else did they need?
This is an interesting counterfactual.

Since Indonesia was a Dutch possession then known as the Dutch East Indies (DEI) the Dutch would have declared war on them which is more than yelling but maybe not much more since the Netherlands was occupied by Germany at the time and thus in no position to mount a response. 

The more interesting question concerns the hosts of the Dutch Government in Exile. They were based in London. 

In your hypothetical you didn't specify whether or not the Japanese took Malaya and Singapore but I don't think that it matters. I think that the British would have entered into war with Japan at the side of their Dutch Allies either way.

Roosevelt had more-or-less assured Churchill that the US would join that struggle but convincing Congress and the American people to support a war to defend European Imperialism would have been a tough sell. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 01:48:36 PM
Yup.  The British in 1941 had their hands full, the Russians were very hard pressed as well.  The Brits might have declared war with Japan, but I don't think that would have materially impacted Japanese actions.  I'm presuming their strategic goals were to secure oil supplies in SE Asia and have a free hand in China.  The Brits could do nothing to inhibit any of that.  THey'd put Singapore and Hong King at risk, and we know they lost both.

The US reponse I think would be nothing more than harsh language.

In that scenario, no US direct involvement in WW 2, Lend Lease probably, but not much US aid to Russia.  Japan would have secured what it needed.  Maybe Germany ends up either winning, or reaching a negotiated peace with Stalin.

If so, our actions following the Spanish American war started the whole thing off.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2023, 03:03:38 PM
I blame Churchill
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 15, 2023, 05:17:13 PM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) :

Cincy and I have repeatedly pointed out your errors and you have completely and utterly failed to address our points.  Now you've gone on a long rant about basically everything Churchill ever did wrong which is completely and utterly irrelevant to the question at hand. 
You remind me of Churchill - "Don't interrupt me while I'm interrupting". Obstinatness is not an arguement and quit name dropping CD like the Maitlands screaming Beetlejuice-Beetlejuice-Beetlejuice from the Handbook of the recently Deceased to cover your carnival barking. I cobbled all that I presented from Historians not named Medina Buckeye - vetted and peer reviewed. David Bennet, Andrew Roberts,Martin Gilbert,Rick Atkinson,Evan Mawdsley,Medina Buckeye,Max Hastings,Antony Beevor,Niall Barr,John Keegan,David Horner,I'm getting tired.The 7th Cavalry had better odds entering the Valley of the Little Bighorn than the Repulse and Prince of Wales had off of Malaya in the South China Sea but onward your hero ordered them

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/john-curtin-the-leader-who-turned-australia-to-the-united-states-20171122-gzqc46


Curtin knew this was a momentous event, bringing America, "the arsenal of democracy", into the war at the darkest hour for the allies. But no one, Curtin included, understood that the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbour – a "day of infamy," according to US President Franklin Roosevelt – also signaled the transformation of Australia including the way we, as Australians, viewed ourselves. Over the next four months, *Japan ruthlessly destroyed the myth that Britannia ruled the waves, and the US supplanted Britain as the major power among the allies in the region* An earlier Coalition wartime administration dithered and a sort of fatalistic defeatism permeated government and military circles about what Australia could do if Japan invaded. But Curtin was more clear-eyed, presciently warning as far back as 1936 that "the dependence of Australia upon the competence, let alone the readiness, of British statesmen to send forces to our aid is too dangerous a hazard upon which to found Australia's defence policy"

. Post Pearl Harbour, Japan literally blew the assumptions, verities and emotional comforts – indeed, for many, the national raison d'etre – of Australians sky high in a matter of weeks, with its rapid, devastating downward thrust into south-east Asia. This resulted in the loss of the major British naval base in Singapore – long seen as the bulwark against any invasion of Australia – the loss of other British colonies such as Malaya, collapse of the oil-rich Dutch East Indies – now Indonesia – and the Portuguese colony of East Timor, and the loss of Australian-administered Rabaul in New Guinea. Meanwhile, British defences were collapsing in Burma. At the same time, he memorably wrote in the Melbourne Herald: *"Without any inhibitions of any kind, I make it quite clear that Australia looks to America, free of any pangs as to our traditional links or kinship with Britain." (so all of that went wrong and you are right,Mmkay)

The IJN had11 Fleet Carriers, 10 Battleships, 40 Cruisers, 112 Destroyers and 63 Submarines. At the same time Period, Royal Navy have were 4 Fleet Carrier and 3 Escort Carrier, 15 Battleship and Battlecruiser, 66 Cruiser, 184 Destroyers, 60 Submarines Due to, undisputed Superiority of Aircraft in Naval engagement in WW2 - The IJN Bigger carrier fleet and Air power - combined with high morale and experience from war in China. It make them easily the Strongest Naval Power on the Planet for that period

Statistics covering the attacks on P.O.W. are:

Torpedo attacks 50

Hits 11

Bomber attacks 16
Hits  2

All of that and Winston was spot on :043: He thought going over the Alps was preferable to attacking the Atlantic Wall. Knowingly sent two more Ships when the the IJN had a 20:4 advantage just in Destroyers and Japanese submarine and aerial reconnaissance recording their every move.Not listening to the Admiralty and agreeing with the Foreign Secretary Eden. Knowlingly - there's that word again that the US Pacific Fleet was keel hauled at Pearl - sure send the lads anyway what the hell. Promising FDR GERMANY 1ST then moves operations vs them 3000 miles away into a freakin' desert as you ignore/twist everything I present.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 05:23:30 PM
The IJN was not involved in sinking either ship. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 15, 2023, 05:30:49 PM
I meant F how is that? They worked in combination very well and they were present also. Again look at those results and you want to knit pick They couldn't figure the same fate awaited a much smaller force? It was on a British Docu that i saw Winston ignoring military advisors - do you question he did that? And their subs were certainly tracking every move again so they were involved not in the direct attack, which book would you like to pick up from any of them.Churchill had good qualities but he shyt the bed there
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 15, 2023, 05:53:41 PM
The 7th Cavalry had better odds entering the Valley of the Little Bighorn than the Repulse and Prince of Wales had off of Malaya in the South China Sea but onward your hero ordered them.
OMG stop, you are embarrassing yourself.

I'm no Churchill famboy. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of him and you've even managed to stumble across some of them.

That he ordered Repulse and POW out from Singapore to contest the Malaya landings is NOT a legitimate criticism of Churchill because he never gave such an order. This has been demonstrated to you repeatedly by @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) and I and yet you have repeated this false assertion here.
The IJN had11 Fleet Carriers
Inform Yamamoto and Nagumo immediately, they'll be thrilled to learn that they have 11 fleet carriers as of December, 1941 (or ever for that matter).

Previously you said 18.

Now you are down to 11.

Keep going, you'll get it right eventually.

Please see: http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm

Here are the actual figures for fleet carriers:

Zuikako and Shokaku were commissioned late in 1941. They joined the IJN's four existing fleet carriers to give Japan a total of six:
NOTE: Spellings are doubtful, I didn't look them up.

This was the most fleet carriers that the IJN ever possessed at one time. Not 18 as you stated previously. Not 11 as you stated above. Six. That is it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2023, 11:07:15 PM
On this date, December 10, 1979, Stuntman Eddie Kidd accomplished a "death-defying" motorcycle leap. During the spectacle he crossed an 80 ft gap over a 50 ft sheer drop above a viaduct at Maldon, Essex, on a 400 cc motorcycle.

The stunt was for film 'Riding High' about the life of a motorcycle stuntman. "They asked me to do the jump at the end of the film because they were worried," said Kidd. "It had been raining a few days before and they insisted that I have a mud guard on the front of my bike.

But while in flight the wind caught the mud guard and over balanced the bike, so the landing was not easy." In the film, audiences were amazed at how the bike was nearly vertical when landing. "I was also told to wear a visor on my helmet, which blew backwards as I was landing, but I 'nailed' it" Eddie told BBC Essex.

Kidd, who was only 20 at the time, completed the stunt before a stunned group of spectators, fans and press. Only wearing motorcycle leathers and a crash helmet, he landed on the jump and despite the pressure came away with only a minor leg injury.


(https://i.imgur.com/inPFa2m.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 06:21:30 AM
OMG stop, you are embarrassing yourself.
Why you do it it with distressing frequency  Thicko those men got killed and you backed the play of the arrogant ass who sent them.It's you bluto making the personal attacks.Again,obstinateness is not an arguemnet. Historians not named Medina Buckeye,have your handler look up that info left for your edification.Pearl gets wiped out KOWINGLY the P.O.W, and Repulse dispatched anyway and you split hairs for pointing out the arrogant jerk responsible,makes sense

https://youtu.be/z2c7d5RfkAA
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 06:44:20 AM
I meant F how is that? They worked in combination very well and they were present also. Again look at those results and you want to knit pick They couldn't figure the same fate awaited a much smaller force? It was on a British Docu that i saw Winston ignoring military advisors - do you question he did that? And their subs were certainly tracking every move again so they were involved not in the direct attack, which book would you like to pick up from any of them.Churchill had good qualities but he shyt the bed there
The IJN and their Army famously hated each other and would barely collaborate even when it clearly was necessary.  The ships were sunk by land based bombers using torpedoes (mostly).   The British Admiral is primarily responsible for several errors and misjudgments he made.  

One can fault Churchill for sending them, it is very arguable that they were needed more in European waters at the time.  I think he hoped to convince Japan not to attack.

Of all the mistakes Churchill made, I'd argue this isn't one of the major ones, nor is the sinking his fault, in my view.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 07:07:11 AM
The IJN and their Army famously hated each other and would barely collaborate even when it clearly was necessary.  The ships were sunk by land based bombers using torpedoes (mostly).  The British Admiral is primarily responsible for several errors and misjudgments he made. 

One can fault Churchill for sending them, it is very arguable that they were needed more in European waters at the time.  I think he hoped to convince Japan not to attack.

Of all the mistakes Churchill made, I'd argue this isn't one of the major ones, nor is the sinking his fault, in my view.
That was true but they set aside their differences to carve out a place in the Pacific. WC sent them not much an admiral can do when his boss goes over his head.FDR went over Marshall's head a few times also. The British could have sent half the Royal Navy and still been in deep shit.I had mentioned previously with action ramping up in the Med at the same time - that was where the British went all in. Bad medicine sending two boats into enemy strongholds with not much else around exept experienced enemy forces.Singapore was was taken in what - 6 weeks w/o looking it up.Now that is a little different as there had already been garrisoned forces there.The point being that attempt a showing force garnered them nothing.Later FDR began to see Churchill had no intention of Germany 1st he kept henpecking around the periphery in the Med.He literally wanted to lead the GIs by the nose eastward. That pipedream came to and with Crete and Greece falling and Stalin and Himself cornering WC at the Tehran Conferenc and letting him know how things were going to go down in Europe
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 07:23:32 AM
In my view, the actual sinking was directly due to the Admirals actions, and inactions.  Had the ships been better deployed, along with air cover, they should have survived.  Now, how much good they could have done later is another question.  

Plausibly, the could have aided in defense of Singapore using HE shells, given the land based large batteries were equipped with antiship AP shells.

But, that's a guess, and also plausibly wrong.

Sending the ships was not, in my view, a major error, at that time, though it turned out to be obviously.  Japan was not at war with GB when they were sent.  As I suggested, the idea was their mere presence might have deterred Japan from attacking at all.  That wasn't realistic, as we know now.

I think we all agree it ended up as an error and that the ships were badly handled at sea.  The only variance in opinion is whether it was a major error by WC at the time.  I think WC made other more significant avoidable errors personally.  He also made some correct calls.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 07:25:23 AM
To some extent, it's akin to folks claiming Hitler lost the war by meddling, which is true, though a lot of his meddling turned out to be right.  Folks like Guderian and Lidell Hart wrote rather self serving "histories" after the war basically claiming Hitler could have won had he listened to Guderian.

And made all the right calls, in retrospect.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 07:28:19 AM
CD they simply didn't have enough air cover in the SCS even if it did arrive on time.It wouldn't have been close just more Tommies taking one for the team. Sorry but ordering them forward was all show and no go.Horner and many others have covered this in their research.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 07:30:49 AM
To some extent, it's akin to folks claiming Hitler lost the war by meddling, which is true, though a lot of his meddling turned out to be right.  Folks like Guderian and Lidell Hart wrote rather self serving "histories" after the war basically claiming Hitler could have won had he listened to Guderian.

And made all the right calls, in retrospect.
Sure many acconts after the war are self serving.Marshall took the high road and wrote nothing,retiring to his Garden and compost pile.Alan Brooke watched birds and had to retire to a cottage on the property he lost after the war falling on somewhat hard times.But his memoirs were written during it sometimes spot on other times very condescending of the USA.Oh and of WC
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 07:40:01 AM
I think any military commander in history cna be faulted for some calls at times.  Maybe Alexander is an exception, but that was so long ago his story may have been whitewashed at times.  Grant made mistakes, Lee made mistakes, Jackson made mistakes, so did Patton and Guderian and Manstein and Rommel.  And higher up, one can say the same about FDR, WC, Hitler, Stalin, and Togo.  The French obviously had an incredibly flawed design in 1940, one almost impossible to believe unless one tries to put on their shoes at that time.  The French had reasons for their approach based on the WW One experience.  That obviously ended up being a disaster.

Mistakes are inherent in war.  And they often are easier to spot in hindsight.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 09:09:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rAsCZw1.png)

Postcard circa 1920's of granite railroad tunnel that was being dug out in 1850's by Blue Ridge Railroad, also called Black Diamond Railroad. Work was stopped by Civil War & never started again.

The Blue Ridge Railroad Project - Abandoned Rails (https://www.abandonedrails.com/blue-ridge-railroad-project)

The Blue Ridge Railroad Or How John C. Calhoun Almost Transformed Rabun County  – Rabun County Historical Society (rabunhistory.org) (https://rabunhistory.org/articles/the-blue-ridge-railroad-or-how-john-c-calhoun-almost-transformed-rabun-county/)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2023, 09:47:04 AM
Saturday, December 11, 1920, Robert Muno Rueckheim, (1913-1920), famous as the iconic “Sailor Boy” personification of Cracker Jack popcorn & peanut snack food, met his unfortunate & untimely earthly demise at the age of seven when he died from the effects of pneumonia at the city of Chicago in Cook County, Illinois.

☞Requiéscat in Pace, Robert Rueckheim.

According to the “Find a Grave” website page for Robert Rueckheim:

☞Advertising Icon. Born the son of Dorothy Muno & Edwin Lewis Rueckheim. His grandfather & great uncle, F. W. Rueckheim & Louis Rueckheim, had invented & introduced the caramel-coated popcorn & peanut confection, Cracker Jack, in 1893. The popular sweet was relabeled as early as 1916 bearing an image of young Robert as the brand mascot, Sailor Jack with his dog, Bingo. The logo of the boy & his dog was trademarked in 1919. Robert contracted pneumonia the following winter & succumbed at the age of 7. The Cracker Jack brand still bears his likeness today.

☞The photograph depicts an early Cracker Jack advertising illustration of Sailor Jack & his dog Bingo.


(https://i.imgur.com/yk1Cph4.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 10:19:59 AM
The Battle of the Bulge Begins - WW2 - December 16, 1944
https://youtu.be/41L_CI3DMJc

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 10:23:12 AM
I used to play a board game with a friend that took forever about the Bulge campaign.  The German basically couldn't win anything decisively at all.  The game was useful for learning place names and terrain.

Slaughterhouse-Five: Full Book Summary | SparkNotes (https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/slaughter/summary/)

This book and movie were based (very loosely) on Vonnegut's experiences with the 106th when he was captured.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2023, 10:27:16 AM
and the Germans had a chance and created a bulge because they used phone lines for communication

the allies didn't know every move they were gonna make 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 10:55:50 AM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
Nubbz,
This was your initial post on this issue. It was, is, and remains factually wrong.

The decision to send Repulse and POW out of Singapore was a local, tactical decision. It would have been wildly inappropriate for such a decision to be made by a head of state. It wasn't, the decision was made at the appropriate level by Admiral Phillips in Singapore aboard POW:

https://www.navygeneralboard.com/the-loss-of-prince-of-wales-and-repulse/?amp=1

Note that Phillips "did not make the decision lightly, calling a meeting of his senior officers aboard the Prince of Wales at 12.30 on 8 December and outlining the options.[20] (https://www.navygeneralboard.com/the-loss-of-prince-of-wales-and-repulse/?amp=1#_ftn20) They could, he said, stay where they were and get bombed; withdraw out of reach of the Japanese; or attack the invasion force. His officers were clear. The invasion force had to be tackled."

Your assertion that Winston Churchill made this decision is unequivocally and indisputably wrong.

That link also addresses the reasons for sending Repulse and POW to the Far East in the first place. As @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) and I have patiently explained repeatedly, they were sent in the hope of deterring Japanese aggression. However, the link reminded me of two other reasons that were even more important:

First, the British needed to demonstrate to the Australians, New Zealanders, and other Far Eastern members of the Commonwealth that they would provide defense for them.

The Australians particularly were alarmed by Japanese aggression and reasonably feared that the British would prioritize defense of the home islands at the expense of the defense of Australia.

This was such a serious issue that:
"Australian and New Zealand alarm at the growing Pacific crisis reached the point where both Dominions began holding forces back for local defence, instead of sending them to join Britain’s ground war in North Africa. The Australian government also threatened to pull its army divisions out of Egypt."

Second, the British considered it critical to demonstrate their resolve to the United States to encourage the US not to simply concede. As it turned out that was unnecessary but the British didn't know that when they ordered Repulse and POW to the Far East.

Churchill made lots of mistakes. He is decidedly NOT my hero despite your false assertion otherwise. What you seem to fail to grasp is that neither @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) nor I are arguing that Churchill was a genius or hero. This whole question is irrelevant to your initial mistake. Irrespective of how smart or dumb Churchill was, he absolutely, unequivocally, and indisputably did NOT order Repulse and POW out of Singapore to impede the Japanese invasion of Malaya.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 11:37:42 AM
Um no Churchill sent them did you watch the video?An Admiral can't tell the PM he's not going - he was forced to make decisions once sent.The mission was comprimised by lack of intelligence and reconnaissance leaving force Z to rely on outdated information. WC did that all over Have a good christmas. John Paul Jones/Oliver Hazard Perry couldn't have made the situation any better they were spread way To thin

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 11:59:36 AM
I think it pretty clear the Admiral made some glaring errors.  Had he done a couple more things properly and reasonably, they might have suffered damage but not been sunk.  There also was the error/issue with not sending a carrier to the region.  I know one was damaged, another apparently sat in South Africa.

I think it pretty clear WC should not have sent them anyway.  It probably seemed like a good idea, to him, at the time, needing to show support for Anzac.  At his level, he's thinking more politically and strategically than tactically.  

Most Admirals of that era believed in their hearts that a capital ship could not be sunk by air attack when fully manned and at sea.  It turned out the Japanese had an excellent Long Lance torpedo that could be effectively air dropped, and the Allies didn't know this.  The Repulse apparently did a fine job avoiding the torpedoes in the first attack.  The PoW got hit in a very vulnerable spot, somewhat akin to what happened to Bismark.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 12:14:15 PM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) are you willing to admit:

All three of these are false statements that you implied (#1) or made #2 and #3). 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 12:47:13 PM
Ah,sure Medina Military Memoirs obviously reading gives you a head ache try watching the Telly..Everything I've presented are from books or historitcal BRITISH Docus,not my PoV time stamped LISTEN from 1:50 -  listen thru to  4:30 .Even Corelli Barnett chimed in - stating they would be facing much more sophisticated  Japanese Aviation than the British sent after the Bismark.

https://youtu.be/-kkrHswfPVs?list=PLk2daSTx1RZutv3b8jZl1AOdq0PNZ8JQl&t=100
I'm going to spell this out in the simplest of terms it's the clear the 2 dispatched ships had DONE NOTHING to deter japan as hoped - still with plenty of time to turn back.As the historian states the presence or absense of a few more British ships were not going change anything.By December 8th they had launched attacks against Hong Kong,Malaya,East Indies Burma and PH - the allies were decisevely outnumbered.The mission had failed before they even fired a shot. The Brandy addled Churchill had plenty of time to back off the gas after that - but pressed on

Made very clear the admiralty was not keen of the idea.1st Sea Lord Pound wanted to send the older boats but many more of them.WC went with P.O.W. that was less than a year from being launched - "thinking it a British Bismark"

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 12:53:46 PM
@Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) maybe you can get somewhere with Nubbz.

Nubbz, you have made false statements and you refuse to acknowledge them. Why?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 01:28:55 PM
I'm not a liar watch the videos or is that concept a little too complex.Stop acting like you're Zeus tossing down edicts from Mount Olympus.2 full days to call off the dogs but you can't admit it.HAPPY KWAANZA
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 01:38:30 PM
I'm not a liar watch the videos or is that concept a little too complex.Stop acting like you're Zeus tossing down edicts from Mount Olympus.2 full days to call off the dogs but you can't admit it.HAPPY KWAANZA
I never called you a liar, but you did make multiple false statements. I just assumed you were ignorant.

The facts are these:


You implied that Churchill ordered Repulse and POW out of Singapore to contest the invasion, that is false. Churchill gave no orders regarding Repulse and POW between PH and their loss.

You also stated that Japan had 18 carriers later amended to 11 fleet carriers on December 4, 1941. I have given links to prove this is also false.

I haven't questioned your character because I assumed you were merely ignorant but your continued refusal to admit your mistakes is troubling.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 01:43:48 PM
@Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) maybe you can get somewhere with Nubbz.
Not my job.  I think it interesting to discuss.  I certainly get things wrong at times obviously.  In hindsight, it was a mistake.  Maybe a different admiral would have managed better, though really I'm not sure how it would have made any difference in the ultimate result.

It is interesting, to me, how critical airpower was in WW Two.  Things like tanks and battleships get a lot of attention but perhaps more than they should.

I like tank and aircraft stuff a lot myself.  Logistics is boring but essential.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 16, 2023, 02:10:58 PM
There is a warfare version of analytics.  I wonder if/how much AI will change the next major conflict and if there will be fewer "errors" made by military leaders.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 02:16:49 PM
I had a buddy in grad school who  had all these board based war games refighting old battles, mostly WW 2.  We'd stay up all night doing one of them.  Then they went to computers and I would play against a computer and basically win every time, the computer algorithms back then were rudimentary.

I have one somewhere for the PTO and you can play either side.  If you take the US, you basically end up just bludgeoning the poor Japanese with massive stuff coming on line late in 1943.  Which is, well, duh.  If you play the Japanese side, you quickly start having major issues with training because it requires gasoline which requires oil.  So, you have to develop oil resources quickly, and basically, you can't.  It's an unholy mess.  But I did learn a lot of geography.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on December 16, 2023, 02:23:19 PM
I never called you a liar, but you did make multiple false statements. I just assumed you were ignorant.

The facts are these:

  • Admiral Cunningham and hid officers at Singapore ordered Repulse and POW out to contest the invasion of Malaysia, Churchill had nothing to do with it.
  • Japan had six operationsl fleet carriers as of December 7, 1941 and NEVER had more than that operational at any one time.

You implied that Churchill ordered Repulse and POW out of Singapore to contest the invasion, that is false. Churchill gave no orders regarding Repulse and POW between PH and their loss.

You also stated that Japan had 18 carriers later amended to 11 fleet carriers on December 4, 1941. I have given links to prove this is also false.

I haven't questioned your character because I assumed you were merely ignorant but your continued refusal to admit your mistakes is troubling.
I show that number as 11 carriers is the difference based on the word fleet
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 02:28:37 PM
Yup, the term fleet carrier is fairly well defined.  The Japanese did have other "light carriers", one of which was sunk early in the war at Coral Sea.

Japanese aircraft carrier Shōhō | Military Wiki | Fandom (https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Japanese_aircraft_carrier_Shōhō)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 04:12:34 PM

I haven't questioned your character because I assumed you were merely ignorant but your continued refusal to admit your mistakes is troubling.
The amusement continues,FFS have some dignity and quit calling on another poster for validation and to back your play. Address the evidence on the video Pound/Eden/Historian all quoted,there is a comment section call him out and his sources - I'll grab the popcorn.



(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2Ffe405e1f177fa184cbfa363acee4c220%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid%3D5631814&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=7bedc06f3be7437f74a9d1e3740248c96a7e627587f66a89540fb3abfa30eb77&ipo=images)
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/fe405e1f177fa184cbfa363acee4c220/tenor.gif?itemid=5631814)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 05:02:33 PM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) please answer:


These are all false statements that you made in this thread.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 07:54:09 PM
You're new attempts at slithering about aren't any more convincing than your previous ones. You are moving the goal posts and the discussion from Churchill's complicity that originally caused to YOU smugly attack my comment and character to now the sources that I cached - try staying on point if that's not asking too much. Puhleeze I gave them and you didn't bother to watch- WC had two days - TWO to call those 2 capital Ships off and or back.I left those videos with their words - WATCH THEM. Again for your edification.I gave them and you didn't bother to watch and or remember.

- On December 7th Pearl Harbor,enough said
  the 8th a quick run down
All of this basically Simultaneously
-IJF attacked Malaya after landing after marching thru Thailand
-IJF land and attack the Dutch East Indies
-Battle of Hong Kong begins as 2.5 Divions land in the Phillipines
-IJF take the Gilbert Islands also Battles of Prachaub & Kirikhan begin
-IJF take the GIs garrisoned at Shanqhai & Tientsin
-Luzon is airfields are getting bombed and Bangkok is occupied
-Landings in Tarawa & Makin Islands
-Aerial Attacks on pretty much all of them Hong Kong,Guam,Phillipines,Shanghai,Singapore,Wake Island

Don't care to hear you didn't know,care to read or it's hindsight,it's not this all 2 days before those ships were sent to Davey Jones Locker on Decenber 10th.By all means try using the address bar at the top of the page to save me from your furthering your education.You attempting to excuse the Former 1st Lord of the Admiralty and the Prime Minister WC who didn't think or bother to call off that order that he indeed sent to the Admiral of the Fleet Sir Alfred Pound on November 25th before everything above had been unfolding

https://youtu.be/pKo4deZi2_Q?list=PLsIk0qF0R1j7tjOhaZY7dUquxuHWX5n3s
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 08:08:24 PM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) please answer:

  • Are you standing by your assertion that Churchill gave orders regarding Repulse and POW after the PH attack?
  • Are you standing by your assertion that Japan had 18 carriers as of 12/7/41?
  • Are you standing by your assertion that Japan had 11 fleet carriers as of 12/7/41?

These are all false statements that you made in this thread.
Answer these questions or you have conceded that you were wrong.

You have an unbelievable level of audacity to imply that you can teach me about the Pacific War when you don't even know how many fleet carriers the IJN had.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 08:25:06 PM
https://winstonchurchill.org/publications/finest-hour/finest-hour-139/prince-of-wales-and-repulse-churchills-veiled-threat-reconsidered/


No tragedy is so poignant in British naval history as the loss of these two capital ships and so many aboard them. They had been, Churchill wrote, the only weapon in British hands, meaning a weapon of deterrence. The command of every ocean had been lost except the Atlantic. Australia and New Zealand were open to attack.

Prince of Wales and Repulse had been sent to Singapore, he wrote, “to exercise that kind of vague menace which capital ships of the highest quality whose whereabouts is unknown can impose upon all hostile naval calculations. How should we use them now? Obviously they must go to sea and vanish among the innumerable islands. There was general agreement on that.” Churchill had thought they might sail across the Pacific to join the U.S. fleet, “a proud gesture at this moment,” knitting the English-speaking world together. The existence of such a fleet would be the best possible shield for the Pacific Dominions. “But as the hour was late we decided to sleep on it, and settle the next morning what to do with the Prince of Wales and Repulse.”
These were Churchill’s undoubted intentions. What is not so sure is the decision-making process that led to the ships’ deployment: Admiral Phillips’s “Force Z.” Churchill’s part in these matters has been a subject of debate among some of the best historians, including Arthur Marder, Stephen Roskill, Correlli Barnett, Christopher Bell, Martin Middlebrook and Patrick Mahoney.


Its purpose was to deter Japan from entering the war or delay the outbreak of hostilities. The deployment was made for political reasons.On 4 November Churchill wrote to Stalin: “With the object of keeping Japan quiet we are sending our latest battleship, Prince of Wales, which can catch and kill any Japanese ship, into the Indian Ocean, and we are building up a powerful battle squadron there.”
------------------------------------------------
Now do tell us Marvelous Medina who was Chief amongst the British Politicians.Hmmm,tough one Adml.Pound?Adml.Phillips?Foreign Secretary Eden? Joseph Stalin? Careful now Santa and Cinci Dawg may be watching

Well I have a party to attend,I'd bet you're a lot of fun at one of those
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 08:54:58 PM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
This, @MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) was your first post on the issue. 

Note above that you criticized Churchill for sending Repulse and POW after PH. 

Now you are talking about an order issued:
Quote from: MrNubbz 12/16/2023, 7:54:09 PM
on November 25th before everything above had been unfolding 

Since we all know that November 25 is BEFORE December 7, I'll accept this as your admission that you were wrong.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2023, 09:45:15 PM
War Elephants

Elephants were first used in military campaigns in India around 1100 BCE. At the 331 BCE Battle of Gaugamela, Alexander the Great's forces faced 15 war elephants. Recognizing the large pachyderms' military value, Alexander began employing them in his own campaigns. The elephants' thick hides made them extremely difficult to kill or neutralize, and they easily trampled opposing forces as they charged through enemy lines.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 16, 2023, 11:26:03 PM
You boys sure know how to celebrate the weekend :57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on December 17, 2023, 12:10:29 AM
You boys sure know how to celebrate the weekend :57:
I was just thinkin the same thing

man are we getting old
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2023, 09:07:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Prime Minister of Australia Disappears (1967)
Harold Holt was an Australian political leader who served in a number of cabinet positions before becoming prime minister in 1966, upon the retirement of Robert Gordon Menzies, whom Holt succeeded as Liberal party leader. During his short tenure, he increased the number of Australian troops in South Vietnam, a policy that caused controversy. He disappeared while swimming in rough surf in 1967 and is believed to have drowned.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 17, 2023, 08:58:06 PM
Since we all know that November 25 is BEFORE December 7, I'll accept this as your admission that you were wrong.
I gave you the answer petulant child.They still had two days to at least pull back and get out of range one page back.Keep throwing shyt against the wall until some sticks

(https://c.tenor.com/nR6qtqHkxRgAAAAC/godfather-the-godfather.gif)
So Congratulations on ALL you have ignored, you just keep refuting yourself with the stupidity of your own statements. I have replied with no less than FOUR LINKS of WC's debacles,1 from winstonchurchill.org and you leave 3 pages of 💩💩💩.Churchill had no business ordering Force Z into the S.China Sea & just as Custer had no business ordering the 7th Cavalry into the Little Bighorn & for the same evident reasons - both positions were untenable as History obviously attests to. Either go read/watch those sources or just have a nice cup of STFU. And don't bother with the typical 15 paragraphs of nested, tangled nonsense, nobody will read it & I won't be responding. Thank You for your cooperation
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 17, 2023, 10:22:23 PM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) you already admitted your initial post was factually incorrect as to dates. 

You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 18, 2023, 12:49:33 AM
I however am entitled to my own facts. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 18, 2023, 01:23:18 AM
Ain't no elephants in Guatemala!  Guadalajara?  Guadalcanal?
:57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2023, 08:57:26 AM
guacamole
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2023, 09:53:05 AM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) you already admitted your initial post was factually incorrect as to dates.

You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.
Get Help it's available,denial isn't a river in Africa
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 11:06:09 AM
Get Help it's available,denial isn't a river in Africa
LoL

You falsely claimed that Churchill ordered Repulse and POW out three days after Pearl Harbor. 

Quote from: MrNubbz 12/10/2023, 2:25:40 PM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
Are you denying that you said this?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: GopherRock on December 18, 2023, 11:11:43 AM
My only contribution to this is my grandmother's family lived with the rest of her family on the Pearl City Peninsula in late 1941. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 11:11:54 AM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) are you willing to admit:

  • Churchill did not order Repulse and POW out of Singapore.
  • Japan did not have 18 carriers in Decembe, 1941.
  • Japan did not have 11 Fleet Carriers in Decembe, 1941.
All three of these are false statements that you implied (#1) or made #2 and #3).
You STILL haven't answered . . .
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 18, 2023, 01:02:42 PM
My only contribution to this is my grandmother's family lived with the rest of her family on the Pearl City Peninsula in late 1941.

I have no contribution.  Some history--not really weird, tho--is that both my grandfathers served during this war.  Paternal grandpa was in the Navy and served somewhere in the South Pacific, I think.  I don't know that he ever saw any combat.  Maternal grandpa was an Army medic and served in France, maybe some other places, but mostly France.  He came home with several cool photos of France, but also a helmet with a dent from the butt of a German soldier's rifle who, thankfully, did not attack my grandpa any further when he saw he was a medic.  My grandma gave me his helmet and it still gives me shivers to this day.  Every time I see that dent I think how easily things might have been very different.  Just a little different on the battlefield that day and I'd be erased from history, Marty McFly style.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2023, 06:09:50 PM
You STILL haven't answered . . .
Already did 3-4-5X quit moving the goalposts Agnes and take your laxative. From actual historians not named MB
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 07:11:57 PM
Already did 3-4-5X quit moving the goalposts Agnes and take your laxative. From actual historians not named MB
None of your sources say that Churchill ordered Repulse and POW out of Singapore 3 days after Pearl Harbor. 

Japan had six fleet carriers not 11.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 07:17:05 PM
Hint:
Nobody ordered Repulse and POW to do anything three days after Pearl Harbor because they were sunk two days after Pearl Harbor. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2023, 07:35:19 PM
Hint:
💩💩💩
💩💩💩
 I thought you may have an expiration date - write down what you know,that should leave you plenty of free time to catch up





Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 09:08:07 PM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) you made a mistake, it is OK.

Admit your mistake so we can move on
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 09:09:05 PM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
Come on @MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) 

You can't defend these obvious mistakes. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2023, 11:10:39 PM



@Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) maybe you can get somewhere with Nubbz.

Not my job.  I think it interesting to discuss. 
Man everyone that saw it for what it was - Appealing for help while you grasping at straws - shameful I'm sure you'd agree :D


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 11:17:09 PM
Man everyone that saw it for what it was - Appealing for help while you grasping at straws - shameful I'm sure you'd agree :D
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) 

What straw?


You claimed that Churchill sent Repulse and POW out three days after Pearl Harbor. 

The fact is that Repulse and POW were sunk two days after Pearl Harbor.

Do you disagree?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2023, 11:42:56 PM

Churchill's orders regarding the two ships were obviously issued LONG before Pearl Harbor. The ships left England weeks before Pearl Harbor and Churchill's control ended then.
Your misleading bullshit is the stuff of legend.
🔸The Ark Royal he was going to send along to Force Z got sunk in Scapa Flow November 14 by a German Sub
🔸The HMS Indomitable ran aground by Jamaica November 3 it went to Norfalk Va. for repairs and didn't even make it to the Sri Lanka until January'42
🔸The HMS Formidable didn't join the fleet until December 12
🔸The HMS Victorious  was conducting operations in the North Atlantic
CHurchill absolutely knew-KNEW the aircraft situation.And didn't bother calling Force Z back
So if you didn't know any of that then you are ignorant,if you did you're willing deceitful - what is it? Nevermind it's the Holidays and I don't want use Drew's bandwidth or subject the others to your waterboarding diatribes


  • Again, not the Prime Minister's nor even the First Lord of the Admiralty's job to determine and dictate local tactical decisions.  If you want to say somebody was stupid and that stupidity caused the loss of Repulse and POW that is fine but your insistence of directing this criticism at Prime Minister Churchill is bizarre. 
Take a deep breath - for about 20 minutes.Your insistance at defending this brandy plied hack at the highest level is worse given the fact you've had 81 yrs of what in your case is appropriately titled HIND sight.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 11:54:23 PM
Your misleading bullshit is the stuff of legend.
🔸The Ark Royal he was going to send along to Force Z got sunk in Scapa Flow November 14 by a german Sub
🔸The HMS Indomitable ran aground by Jamaica November 3 it went to Norfalk Va. for repairs and didn't even make it to the Sri Lanka until January'42

🔸The HMS Formidable didn't join the fleet until December 12
🔸The HMS Victorious  was conducting operations in the North Atlantic
CHurchill absolutely knew-KNEW the aircraft situation.And didn't bother calling Force Z back
So if you didn't know any of that then you are ignorant,if you did you're willing deceitful - what is it? Nevermind it's the Holidays and I don't want use Drew's bandwidth or subject the others to your waterboarding diatribes

Take a deep breath - for about 20 minutes.Your insistance at defending this brandy plied hack at the highest level is worse given the fact you've had 81 yrs of what in your case is appropriately titled HIND sight.

Churchill screwed up knowing-KNOWING that Pearl just got leveled,simultaneaosy
I know all of the above.

None of it changes the fact that Churchill didn't send Repulse and POW out after Pearl Harbor.

As I've said repeatedly, there are plenty of legitimate criticisms of Churchill but this simply isn't one of them.

After Pearl Harbor Cunningham (not Churchill) sent Repulse and POW out.

You were also wrong about the timeline again because you claimed that Churchill did this three days after Pearl Harbor but nobody ordered Repulse and POW to do anything three days after Pearl Harbor because they were sunk two days after Pearl Harbor.

Just admit you made a mistake.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 12:28:11 AM
None of your sources say that Churchill ordered Repulse and POW out of Singapore 3 days after Pearl Harbor.

🔸On December 7th Pearl Harbor flattened Much of the US Pacific Fleet lost

🔸 Simultaneously(differnt time zones)

🔸IJF attacked Malaya after landing after marching thru Thailand

🔸IJF land and attack the Dutch East Indies

🔸Battle of Hong Kong begins as 2.5 Divions land in the Phillipines

🔸IJF take the Gilbert Islands also Battles of Prachaub & Kirikhan begin

🔸IJF take the GIs garrisoned at Shanqhai & Tientsin

🔸Luzon's airfields are getting bombed and Bangkok is occupied

🔸Landings in Tarawa & Makin Islands

🔸Aerial Attacks on Hong Kong,Guam,Phillipines,Shanghai,Singapore,Wake Island

Churchill knowingly KNOWINGLY - appraised of all of this about the same time as FDR. But make NO mistake it is of his making w/o aircover and enemy operations exploding all around the Pacific Rim and he still didn't order them with two full days to at least get out of range.And Force Z were too damn brave and honorable to ask. 



 But you can't admit it because you've been wagging your tongue to the contrary for way too long .Again,obstinateness is not an argument. Watch Sun Tzu's Art of War on YT he damn sure would have pointed right at Churchill. Odd that at least he agreed to the Dunkirk Evacution right across the the channel but wouldn't give them the green light half way around the world with little or no assistance? And you want to lecture me or anyone else?Makes Sense 



   (https://media1.tenor.com/images/49f1f37a9eae1705b6ced1b14c2b4928/tenor.gif?itemid=4827080)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 12:35:04 AM
I know all of the above.
  (https://media.tenor.com/images/32bacce37ab96b986e71cf10538a3b96/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 12:47:46 AM
two full days

Quote from: MrNubbz 12/10/2023, 2:25:40 PM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII

Thank you for admitting this mistake.

Your new argument that Churchill should have recalled Repulse and POW is an opinion. You are entitled to your opinion. 

Your previous statement was that he sent them after Pearl Harbor. That isn't an opinion it is a factually inaccurate statement. 

You could have avoided all of this by admitting your mistakes a long time ago.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 01:02:57 AM
You've just been upgraded to me feeling sorry for you.WHat are you babbling about now were you worked so silly you're now realizing hallucinations? You remind me of one of those Buckeye fans who keep embarrassing themselves OH-IO,OH-IO,OH-IO,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on December 19, 2023, 01:03:51 AM

You could have avoided all of this by admitting your mistakes a long time ago.
Are you really MrNubbz's exwife in disguise and we didnt know?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 01:20:56 AM
You've just been upgraded to me feeling sorry for you.WHat are you babbling about now were you worked so silly you're now realizing hallucinations? You remind me of one of those Buckeye fans who keep embarrassing themselves OH-IO,OH-IO,OH-IO,
There is no need for this.

You made a simple mistake. I called you out on it, you argued for 8 days then finally admitted that you were wrong on the timeline and that you misstated your criticism as "sent them" when you meant "failed to call them back".

How did I get worked? YOU screwed up the timeline. YOU falsely claimed that Churchill sent Repulse and POW after Pearl Harbor.

Sounds like you got worked. 

Deal with it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 01:21:27 AM
You have been carved up worse than the Christmas Goose - only he had more sense - get help. 

A Christmas Carol was published December 19, 1843 -  179 yrs ago
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 01:50:10 AM
🔸The Ark Royal he was going to send along to Force Z got sunk in Scapa Flow November 14 by a German Sub
I was going to let this slide but you are being such an 🫏 that you don't deserve the courtesy. 

Ark Royal wasn't sunk in Scapa Flow. I don't feel like looking it up right now but I'm pretty sure it was sunk in the Mediterranean after one of the Malta runs. 

You are confusing Carrier Ark Royal with Battleship Royal Oak which was sunk at Scapa Flow two years earlier. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 01:52:12 AM
You have been carved up worse than the Christmas Goose - only he had more sense - get help.

A Christmas Carol was published December 19, 1843 -  179 yrs ago
You got caught in multiple false statements and I've been carved up, to quote you:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 02:26:03 AM

How did I get worked? YOU screwed up the timeline. YOU falsely claimed that Churchill sent Repulse and POW after Pearl Harbor.
How in your morbid mindset to you confuse "sent"^^^^^from "calling back"vvvvv" they have completely different meanigs - don't put words in my mouth. Read it over,you can even move your lips or have it read to you or just leave me the hell alone like you should have done in the 1st place when I wasn't talking to you


Your misleading bullshit is the stuff of legend.
🔸The Ark Royal he was going to send along to Force Z got sunk in Scapa Flow November 14 by a German Sub
🔸The HMS Indomitable ran aground by Jamaica November 3 it went to Norfalk Va. for repairs and didn't even make it to the Sri Lanka until January'42
🔸The HMS Formidable didn't join the fleet until December 12
🔸The HMS Victorious  was conducting operations in the North Atlantic
CHurchill absolutely knew-KNEW the aircraft situation.And didn't bother calling Force Z back
So if you didn't know any of that then you are ignorant,if you did you're willing deceitful - what is it?



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 02:31:56 AM
You are confusing Carrier Ark Royal with Battleship Royal Oak which was sunk at Scapa Flow two years earlier.
Yes on this I entirely concede I confused the two you were actually right - my mistake. Where it was sunk is irrelevant though it changes nothing as the Ark Royal was indeed sunk on November 14th and could not be sent for Air Cover in the South China Sea was the obvious point you look past. With the other Carriers sidelined also that left  Force Z with little cover when the hostilities hit the fan
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 02:38:02 AM
How in your morbid mindset to you confuse "sent"^^^^^from "calling back"vvvvv" they have completely different meanigs
Um . . .
This is exactly my point.

Originally you said sent:
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
Later you switched to didn't order them:

Quote from: MrNubbz 12/19/2023, 12:28:11 AM
Churchill knowingly KNOWINGLY - appraised of all of this about the same time as FDR. But make NO mistake it is of his making w/o aircover and enemy operations exploding all around the Pacific Rim and he still didn't order them with two full days to at least get out of range.And Force Z were too damn brave and honorable to ask.

The first statement of yours is false. The second is true.

As you yourself said "they have completely different meanigs".
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 02:45:49 AM
You have serious comprehension problems - are you cooking meth?.Seagulls have come out of Jet engines making more sense than that.Not false you can't see over the piles of shit you left Churchill sent them on there long journey.And after the massive attacks everywhere he still had two days to order them out to sea out of range  of Japanese Bombers - I can not make it any simpler.He pushed them off the Cliff and you're blaming the guys who didn't catch them at the bottom,SMDH
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 03:00:41 AM

Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of.
This is YOUR post. YOU state that Churchill sent them AFTER Pearl Harbor. 


This is plainly false. 

That and the 3 days thing were my objections from the beginning. 

You've conceded on both. My work here is done.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 08:08:31 AM
ya see what happens Larry?

Do you see what happens when the Buckeyes lose to Michigan 3 straight?

the Buckeyes start arguing with themselves! 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 08:10:54 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Original FIFA World Cup Trophy Is Stolen (1983)
The World Cup has been held every fourth year since 1930, except during WWII. The international soccer tournament's original prize was officially renamed the Jules Rimet Trophy in 1946 in honor of the former Fédération Internationale de Football Association (FIFA) president, who stipulated that the first team to win the World Cup three times could keep the trophy in perpetuity. Brazil earned this right in 1970, but, in 1983, the trophy was stolen while on display there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 11:42:36 AM
This is YOUR post. YOU state that Churchill sent them AFTER Pearl Harbor.
This is plainly false.
That and the 3 days thing were my objections from the beginning.Your pants are filled again - ring the nurses station. What other rare gems have you mined for me today? Thank You for your bloated essays not only misquoting me but then attacking the words you assigned to my posts.

You've conceded on both.You're realizing hallucinations again,which works well as you'll see Santa before you'll find that
My work here is done.Well done,burnt actually
I think this guy knows you Medina

https://youtu.be/Y8ErIhq3H10
We're you born an asshole or did you work at it your whole life,
either way it worked out fine, 'Cause you're an asshole tonite
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 11:58:33 AM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
LoL.
If this is a misquote, take it up with @Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) .

It is not, these are YOUR words. I've never misquoted you.

You said it, I called out your mistakes, you argued for a week before conceding.

Then you have the audacity to attack me personally?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 12:05:23 PM
Stop acting appalled nancy you've suggested i was ignorant and lie.you dish it out change the script but bitch when it flies back in your face. Look you tried luring Cinci to defend your carnival barking,pretty sure Drew isn't like you dragging him into your fantasies either for any reason after taking up more band width.Now you may have your cup of STFU
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 19, 2023, 12:14:27 PM
Good Lord will you two please cut it out??
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 12:15:31 PM
it's the offseason and the Buckeye fans don't care about the bowl game
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 12:21:18 PM
Good Lord will you two please cut it out??
Just trying to revive the froth from the old Big 12 board
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 19, 2023, 12:22:05 PM
Good Lord will you two please cut it out??
You mean you're not enjoying a pedantic and acrimonious argument about assigning blame for a historical event that happened 80+ years ago, that all of the involved decision-makers are dead, and which (unlike much of history i.e. those who don't know it are doomed to repeat it) has absolutely zero tactical or strategic relevance to modern warfare? 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 19, 2023, 12:23:08 PM
You mean you're not enjoying a pedantic and acrimonious argument about assigning blame for a historical event that happened 80+ years ago, that all of the involved decision-makers are dead, and which (unlike much of history i.e. those who don't know it are doomed to repeat it) has absolutely zero tactical or strategic relevance to modern warfare?


Well when you put it that way, it seems crazy NOT to want it to continue...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 19, 2023, 12:23:46 PM
Just trying to revive the froth from the old Big 12 board
We need Cousin Freddy to come back for that.   He was always happy to generate some froth.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 12:26:06 PM
Well no he was/is a pleasant gent unless you horns wound him up one too many times.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on December 19, 2023, 02:15:55 PM
Well no he was/is a pleasant gent unless you horns wound him up one too many times.
actually I always found him calm 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 19, 2023, 03:48:25 PM
Y'all might be forgetting his famous thread he started after the 2006 Rose Bowl, titled "Longhorn Fans, Where Is Thy Froth?"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 03:56:49 PM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
These are your words, they are false. Are you willing to own up to that?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 04:04:34 PM
Stop acting appalled nancy you've suggested i was ignorant and lie.you dish it out change the script but bitch when it flies back in your face. Look you tried luring Cinci to defend your carnival barking,pretty sure Drew isn't like you dragging him into your fantasies either for any reason after taking up more band width.Now you may have your cup of STFU
I haven't engaged in personal attacks that is all on you. I don't recall saying that you lied but your ignorance is apparent for all to see. You screwed up the 3 days / 2 days thing and falsely stated that Churchill sent Repulse and POW three days AFTER Pearl Harbor. 

I only mentioned drew because literally every time I've quoted you I've used Drew's "quote" function to directly quote you. In spite of that you falsely accused me of misquoting you. You absolutely have not been misquoted but if you had, it could only be a website issue.

Look, you've made a tremendous fuss defending your false statements so I can understand your desire to deny making the statement but you are better than that and it is manifestly unfair to our host. 

They are your words, they are false, own your mistakes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 04:09:40 PM
I haven't engaged in personal attacks that is all on you. 
(https://media.tenor.com/DozZTQmVXIEAAAAC/oh-sure-john-candy.gif) (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftenor.com%2Fview%2Foh-sure-john-candy-ok-gif-15377612&psig=AOvVaw3rvx6PIL4zFeax0Trdzxwr&ust=1702081404611000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CBEQjRxqFwoTCPiBi8DJ_oIDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2023, 04:11:14 PM
Y'all might be forgetting his famous thread he started after the 2006 Rose Bowl, titled "Longhorn Fans, Where Is Thy Froth?"
I managed to attain his wrath when some no-name TB from OU took 4 quarters to break Melvin Gordon's record rushing day, which he did in 3 quarters. All I did was say the OU coaches made sure that record fell by keeping the kid in for the whole game.

I thought 408 yards against Nebraska would stick. 25 carries, 16.3 YPC, 4 touchdowns.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 19, 2023, 04:17:42 PM
Y'all done it now...

:98:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 04:19:52 PM
:cool2:
Hell bring back the time outs I have plenty of shopping to do and working on the blower plus two more parties.But it'll kill him,consider it a public service
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2023, 04:54:19 PM
Y'all done it now...

:98:
:sign0096:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 05:21:27 PM
Y'all might be forgetting his famous thread he started after the 2006 Rose Bowl, titled "Longhorn Fans, Where Is Thy Froth?"
infamous
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 05:22:40 PM
I managed to attain his wrath when some no-name TB from OU took 4 quarters to break Melvin Gordon's record rushing day, which he did in 3 quarters. All I did was say the OU coaches made sure that record fell by keeping the kid in for the whole game.

I thought 408 yards against Nebraska would stick. 25 carries, 16.3 YPC, 4 touchdowns.
you thought wrong
derned Sooners
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 20, 2023, 08:31:54 AM
President Teddy Roosevelt, an environmentalist, banned Christmas trees from the White House in 1901.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 20, 2023, 08:39:16 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Electricity Generated for First Time at Nuclear Power Plant (1951)
Now a US National Historic Landmark, the Experimental Breeder Reactor I in Idaho became the world's first electricity-generating nuclear power plant in 1951, when it produced enough electricity to illuminate four light bulbs. After the initial test, it subsequently generated sufficient electricity to power its building and continued to be used for experimental purposes until it was decommissioned in 1964.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 20, 2023, 11:36:56 AM
I managed to attain his wrath when some no-name TB from OU took 4 quarters to break Melvin Gordon's record rushing day, which he did in 3 quarters. All I did was say the OU coaches made sure that record fell by keeping the kid in for the whole game.

I thought 408 yards against Nebraska would stick. 25 carries, 16.3 YPC, 4 touchdowns.

That reminds me of Leonard Fournette breaking the LSU single game rushing record in 2016 against Ole Miss.  After being sidelined for a month with a high ankle sprain, he returned to humiliate the Rebear "Land Sharks" by reeling off 284 yards on just 16 carries, good for 17.8 ypc. 

It was a record previously set by Alley Broussard in 2004, but it didn't take nearly so long for it to be broken again.  Just a couple weeks later with Fournette re-injured, backup RB Derrius Guice scraped out one more yard--285--but on 37 carries. 

It's not like 7.7 ypc is a bad day, but I was surprised LSU made such a big fuss about it.  Orgeron was campaigning to have the "Interim" tag removed from his title and he admitted he was aware of the record and no doubt he thought having two backs set records during his interim tenure would help his cause.  So he kept playing Guice and feeding him the ball.  So yeah....he did break the record, but in my mind it was almost disrespectful to what Fournette had done just weeks prior.  It's not even a question which one was the greatest RB game in LSU history.  One of those things happened organically due to sheer greatness.  The other happened purposefully, and with much more effort. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2023, 09:07:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
First Manned Voyage to a Celestial Body Launched (1968)
Also the first manned launch of a Saturn V rocket, Apollo 8 was the first manned voyage to a celestial body—the Moon. It took about three days for the craft to enter lunar orbit, whereupon it proceeded to orbit the Moon 10 times in 20 hours. The three crew members were the first humans to see the far side of the Moon—an important precursor to the historic lunar landing that would occur less than a year later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 21, 2023, 11:25:41 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
First Manned Voyage to a Celestial Body Launched (1968)
Also the first manned launch of a Saturn V rocket, Apollo 8 was the first manned voyage to a celestial body—the Moon. It took about three days for the craft to enter lunar orbit, whereupon it proceeded to orbit the Moon 10 times in 20 hours. The three crew members were the first humans to see the far side of the Moon—an important precursor to the historic lunar landing that would occur less than a year later.
The Appolo astronauts are the only humans ever to travel beyond an earth 🌎 orbit. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on December 21, 2023, 11:30:28 AM
The Appolo astronauts are the only humans ever to travel beyond an earth 🌎 orbit.
also first golf shot 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2023, 12:05:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/DxKa9PR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2023, 10:33:17 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

Saudi Arabia is the largest country in the world without a river.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2023, 10:46:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Tokyo Tower Completed (1958)
In the postwar boom of the 1950s, Japan was searching for a monument to symbolize its ascendancy as a global economic powerhouse. Inspired by the Eiffel Tower in Paris, France, architects designed the 1,093-foot- (333-meter-) tall Tokyo Tower, the world's tallest self-supporting steel structure. Today, the Tokyo Tower serves as a television and radio communications tower and is also a major tourist attraction.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 24, 2023, 08:58:17 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

In the mid 1800s, poet Thomas Nash wrote a poem that famously placed Santa's home in the North Pole, even though the original saint lived in Turkey. Nash most likely chose the North Pole because, at the time, there were several scientific explorations to the North Pole, a region that was seen as a type of fantasy land, mysterious and just out of reach.

_______________________________________________

BETHLEHEM, West Bank (AP) — The normally bustling biblical birthplace of Jesus resembled a ghost town on Sunday, as Christmas Eve celebrations in Bethlehem were called off due to the Israel-Hamas war.

The festive lights and Christmas tree that normally decorate Manger Square were missing, as were the throngs of foreign tourists and jubilant youth marching bands that gather in the West Bank town each year to mark the holiday. Dozens of Palestinian security forces patrolled the empty square.

“This year, without the Christmas tree and without lights, there’s just darkness,” said Brother John Vinh, a Franciscan monk from Vietnam who has lived in Jerusalem for six years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2023, 09:19:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/aY3NL68.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2023, 09:19:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/cRTVtFu.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on December 25, 2023, 10:51:35 AM
I always thought it was fascinating that there was another part of the Apollo program called Apollo Applications where they had plans to send a manned probe to slingshot around Venus and Mars.  On the same trip. They would launch, head to Venus, slingshot assist out to Mars, then slingshot back to Earth. I think they were going to have two Apollo capsules connected for more space and only two crewmen. 

The only thing that came out of AAP was Skylab.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2023, 12:07:52 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Baldwin I Crowned First King of Jerusalem (1100)
The son of a French count, Baldwin joined the First Crusade and created the first Crusader state when in 1098 he gained control of Edessa, now in Turkey. In 1100, his brother Godfrey died in Jerusalem, and Baldwin was summoned by the nobles to succeed him as king of the Crusader state. He expanded the kingdom by conquering coastal cities and established an administration that served for 200 years as the basis for Frankish rule in Syria and Palestine.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 25, 2023, 02:07:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cRTVtFu.png)
Is that where you hid the clubs from the EX
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2023, 04:29:56 PM
Hah, I even kept her clubs.  Gave them to the daughter 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 25, 2023, 09:57:42 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/iKO1B46.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2023, 03:11:49 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wrbF0D9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 27, 2023, 03:45:21 PM
Alot of Chrismas shows back then used it - who knew

But the scarecrow Ray Bolger lived to 83
The Cowardly Lion Bert Lahr lived to 72
The Tin Man Jack Haley lived to 82
The WWoW Margaret Hamilton lived to 83
The Wizz Frank Morgan lived to 59
Dorothy well unfortunately got hooked on Liquor and perscription drugs
So collectively not a bad run
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2023, 04:50:46 PM
yup, all that REALLY dangerous stuff that has been banned might not have been so bad.

Lawyers made some $$$
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 27, 2023, 07:47:30 PM
Well back in the 80s I assisted a retired Engineer repack fire brick in the combustion chambers/fire box and the front and rear tube sheets on some fire tube boilers. The guy would do maintenance when the Boilers were down for summer break at schools.He worked for Standard Oil and BP at refinneries doing all sorts of this work. He would mix this batter much like a baker mixes dough - bags of it with asbestos in them.Back then they didn't use self contained breathing apparatus or even masks.

I had heard AL lived to 83 and he spent a lifetime in and around these areas of work.However many types of asbestos have hook/shank like fibers that did embedd in skin or organs - much like a fish hook and then the problems begin. No way to really remove them either. As long as it was wrapped/packed right containment was OK but had to be routinely maintained. Not for personal safety as they really didn't know at the time but smooth operation of the equipment. Fiberglass was a problem but is relatively straight fibers so could be coughed or brushed out. I guess problems were predicated on work environment, type of asbestos,the individual and luck
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on December 28, 2023, 10:04:19 AM
Well back in the 80s I assisted a retired Engineer repack fire brick in the combustion chambers/fire box and the front and rear tube sheets on some fire tube boilers. The guy would do maintenance when the Boilers were down for summer break at schools.He worked for Standard Oil and BP at refinneries doing all sorts of this work. He would mix this batter much like a baker mixes dough - bags of it with asbestos in them.Back then they didn't use self contained breathing apparatus or even masks.

I had heard AL lived to 83 and he spent a lifetime in and around these areas of work.However many types of asbestos have hook/shank like fibers that did embedd in skin or organs - much like a fish hook and then the problems begin. No way to really remove them either. As long as it was wrapped/packed right containment was OK but had to be routinely maintained. Not for personal safety as they really didn't know at the time but smooth operation of the equipment. Fiberglass was a problem but is relatively straight fibers so could be coughed or brushed out. I guess problems were predicated on work environment, type of asbestos,the individual and luck
My dad work as an electrician from 1956 to 1969.  Worked a lot of job in abestos.  Not one of the lucky ones, died of complication due to abestosis at the age of 73.  So Lived a relatively long life, but suffered quite a bit at the end.  

That said, it is a shame they have pretty much banned the use of Abestos because it does have usefulness that is hard to replace. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 28, 2023, 10:19:44 AM
It is directly related to mesothelioma, a particularly aggressive and nasty form of cancer.  Those who get it, aren't going to have the feel-good remission stories that other cancer patients may have.  My mom's cousin was just diagnosed with it and he's going downhill fast.  You don't get mesothelioma without asbestos exposure.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 28, 2023, 10:57:30 AM
My dad work as an electrician from 1956 to 1969.  Worked a lot of job in abestos.  Not one of the lucky ones, died of complication due to abestosis at the age of 73.  So Lived a relatively long life, but suffered quite a bit at the end. 

That said, it is a shame they have pretty much banned the use of Abestos because it does have usefulness that is hard to replace.
Sorry to hear that RR and i agree it takes like over 2000° to burn it so it could seal effectively in those applications.The one Boiler Man Al I'm not sure how he passed it could have been from that. Abestos wasn't a problem cleaning/moving/containing it if proper measures were followed
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 29, 2023, 09:33:24 AM
On this day, December 29, 178 years ago in 1845, Texas allowed the United States to join it.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2023, 09:48:14 AM
God Bless Texas
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2023, 09:49:17 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

The fork gain popularity in Italy before any other European country because it allowed Italians to better spear and twirl their beloved spaghetti.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 31, 2023, 08:40:39 AM
The Air France Robbery

In the 1960s, Air France was used to transport American money exchanged in France back to the US. Once the currency reached New York's JFK International Airport, it was locked in a secure strong room. In 1967, 23-year-old mobster Henry Hill orchestrated an audacious robbery of the Air France cargo terminal. Using a copy of the strong room key, Hill and his associates quietly stole $420,000. They raised no alarm and were never prosecuted for the crime.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 01, 2024, 09:17:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Edwin Hubble Announces Existence of Other Galaxies (1925)
Edwin Hubble worked as a basketball coach and teacher, served in World War I, and studied law before focusing his energies on astronomy. On January 1, 1925, he made a groundbreaking announcement, declaring that fuzzy "nebulae" seen earlier with less powerful telescopes were not part of our galaxy but were actually galaxies themselves. With the findings now known as Hubble's law
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 01, 2024, 09:51:47 AM
On this day, December 29, 178 years ago in 1845, Texas allowed the United States to join it. 
Then the Bastages portaled in 1861....for a spell anyway
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 01, 2024, 09:58:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Edwin Hubble Announces Existence of Other Galaxies (1925)
Hell the patrons of any tavern or inn could tell you that during happy Hour 🚀
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 01, 2024, 10:11:58 AM
apparently, not in 1924

slackers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 01, 2024, 12:01:24 PM
Hubble's "Law" is somewhat related, but more related to the Big Bang Theory.

And it has a weirdness in it today.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 01, 2024, 12:35:19 PM
apparently, not in 1924

slackers
sleeping it off
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 02, 2024, 10:02:03 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Discovery of the Planet Vulcan Is Announced (1860)
To account for inconsistencies between Mercury's predicted and observed orbital path, French astronomer Urbain Jean Joseph Leverrier postulated that a tiny, hypothetical planet, which he named Vulcan, was present within Mercury's orbit. Sightings of Vulcan were reported until 1878, and Leverrier died believing he had discovered another planet. Eventually, however, the orbital anomalies were explained by Einstein's general theory of relativity.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 02, 2024, 10:23:58 AM
Born in Omaha in 1924, Marlon Brando became one of the 20th century's most notable actors. His iconic performance in 1972's The Godfather earned him an Academy Award. He's pictured here at the Blackstone Hotel with his parents in 1953. (Omaha World-Herald photo)

(https://i.imgur.com/o4T56X0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 02, 2024, 02:37:10 PM
How the 1919 Solar Eclipse Made Einstein the World's Most Famous Scientist | Discover Magazine (https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/how-the-1919-solar-eclipse-made-einstein-the-worlds-most-famous-scientist?utm_campaign=organicsocial&utm_content=🗄️from_the_archive%3A_🌞_on_&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0oPAU5DOCtTHkV2Cv-x6wJ6zre-EU5an5qHcIJK08TQ3oJnrS4o1PQwA0)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2024, 06:29:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/jBAnOQ0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2024, 06:40:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/4LAXh4Q.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2024, 06:42:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nDgc0Qe.png)

This is part of the reason our langauage is so complex.  And of course in 1066 more stuff happened.   The Breton language in Brittany has some overlap with English today.

I used to wonder why English was classified as Indo-european instead of Romance (Latin derived).  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2024, 07:43:24 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/HfvsbeR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2024, 10:01:07 AM
′′ Few people know that Popeye's character (Arm wrestle) really existed. His real name was Frank ′′ Rocky ′′ Fiegel, born in Poland in 1868. he emigrated with his family to America where in 1887 he joined the Navy.
When he was with children he held the pipe with the corner of his mouth and told them the antics of his youth, often boasting of his physical strength and loudly claiming that spinach is the food that makes him invincible.
Popeye's character creator Elzie Crisler Segar was born in Chester and was one of the children who had the privilege of hearing ′′ live ′′ the stories of the former sailor."


(https://i.imgur.com/0WucpH9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2024, 12:41:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wzO3FMR.png)

An unidentified man takes a photograph of Stone Mountain in the 1920s prior to the start of carving.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2024, 10:08:17 PM


Texas History: On Junuary 4th in 1962, ground was broken to begin the building of the Astrodome in Houston. It was the first fully air-conditioned, enclosed, domed, multipurpose sports stadium in the world.


(https://i.imgur.com/5LH0buK.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 09:01:03 AM
The Iroquois Confederacy

The Iroquois Confederacy is a North American confederacy of indigenous peoples founded by the prophet Deganawidah and his disciple Hiawatha around 1570. In the early 17th c, it inhabited New York State from the Hudson River north to the St Lawrence River and west to the Genesee River. Once their confederacy, complete with a constitution known as the Gayanashagowa, ceased infighting, the Iroquois rapidly became the one of the strongest forces in N America.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 09:43:59 AM
In the depths of the U.S., beyond the bustling cities and serene landscapes, lies an eerie, clandestine repository known as Trench 94—a chilling graveyard where retired nuclear submarines meet their final rest.

This obscured site, shielded from public view, holds a haunting legacy of decommissioned sub-parts entombed in storage, crafting a narrative of the nuclear era's silent remnants.

Nuclear submarines, emblematic of technological prowess, emerged as a testament to human ingenuity during the atomic age. Pioneering limitless voyages across the world's oceans, these vessels traversed for up to 20 years before refueling.

Powered by atomic energy, they granted unparalleled endurance and stealth, evading adversaries without the need to surface for engine replenishment—unlike their diesel-powered counterparts, vulnerable to detection while surfacing for air.

https://interestingengineering.com/military/trench-94-the-eerie-final-resting-place-of-us-navys-nuclear-submarines (https://interestingengineering.com/military/trench-94-the-eerie-final-resting-place-of-us-navys-nuclear-submarines)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 08, 2024, 11:08:14 AM

Texas History: On Junuary 4th in 1962, ground was broken to begin the building of the Astrodome in Houston. It was the first fully air-conditioned, enclosed, domed, multipurpose sports stadium in the world.


(https://i.imgur.com/5LH0buK.png)


Man I remember my first visit to that place, to see an Astros game in the late 70s I guess.  I couldn't believe how enormous it was.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 11:44:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/IBVmtk8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 09:26:27 PM
Ford Rotunda in Dearborn (1955)

(https://i.imgur.com/btz40Jn.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 09, 2024, 10:42:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Martyrs' Day: Riots over Sovereignty of Panama Canal Zone (1964)
Martyrs' Day is a Panamanian holiday commemorating the 1964 riots that began after a Panamanian flag was torn in a conflict between Panamanian and Canal Zone students over the right of the Panamanian flag to be flown alongside the US flag. US Army units became involved in suppressing the violence, and 4 soldiers and more than 20 Panamanians were killed. The incident contributed to the US decision to transfer control of the Canal Zone to Panama.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 10, 2024, 09:15:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Great Texas Oil Gusher Discovered at Spindletop (1901)
In 1892, a company was formed in Texas to investigate long-held suspicions that oil might be under an area known as Spindletop Hill. After nine years of exploratory drilling, oil was struck at a depth of 1,139 ft (347 m), resulting in the "Lucas Gusher," which blew oil more than 150 ft (46 m) in the air. The well produced an estimated 100,000 barrels per day, marking what many consider the birth of the modern petroleum industry.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 11, 2024, 09:55:54 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Lawrence Textile Strike Begins in Massachusetts (1912)
The Lawrence Textile Strike was a strike of immigrant workers led by the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW), a revolutionary industrial union aimed at uniting all workers in an effort to promote socialism and overthrow capitalism. Of the 150 strikes conducted by the IWW, the Lawrence strike was one of the most notable, growing to more than 20,000 workers in one week and lasting more than two months.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 12, 2024, 09:18:43 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Maiden Voyage of RMS Queen Mary 2 (2004)
The RMS Queen Mary 2 (QM2) is a Cunard Line ocean liner named after the earlier Cunard liner Queen Mary, which was, in turn, named after Mary of Teck, the Queen Consort of George V. With 15 restaurants and bars, 5 pools, a casino, a ballroom, a theater, and a planetarium, the QM2 was the largest ocean liner in the world at the time of its construction, as well as the longest, widest, and tallest passenger ship.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 13, 2024, 09:48:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Black Friday Fires in Victoria, Australia (1939)
One of Australia's worst natural disasters took place in January 1939, when bushfires broke out in the state of Victoria. Over the course of several days, fires burned nearly 5 million acres of land, killing 71 people, destroying thousands of homes and businesses, and ravaging entire towns. An extremely hot and dry summer had preceded the fires, and the day they broke out, temperatures in Melbourne soared to a record 114.1 °F
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2024, 08:09:16 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

San Francisco's Human Be-In Launches "Summer of Love" (1967)
In 1967, the burgeoning counterculture movement took center stage in San Francisco as a number of figures who would become its icons gathered for a "happening" in Golden Gate Park. Announced as a "Human Be-In" in the San Francisco Oracle newspaper, the event was attended by tens of thousands of people and featured speakers Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, as well as performances by The Grateful Dead, among many others.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 08:57:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Body of Elizabeth Short—the "Black Dahlia"—Found (1947)
Elizabeth Short was the victim of a gruesome and much-publicized murder that is still unsolved. Nicknamed the "Black Dahlia" by newspapers after her body was recovered in Leimert Park, Los Angeles, Short was found mutilated, her body severed at the waist. The unsolved murder has been the source of widespread speculation, leading to several books and film adaptations, as well as many false confessions and leads in the years since she was killed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 11:09:28 AM
The “Inquisition’s Chair,” known as the “witch’s chair,” was highly regarded as a good remedy against silent women accused of witchcraft. This common tool was especially widely used by the Austrian Inquisition.

(https://i.imgur.com/JZA4Jsp.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 16, 2024, 02:59:46 AM
College football (now) history:

Of the top 100 highest pass rating seasons by QBs, here 's how many that happened pre-2000 and were at P5 schools:
Six.
.
Who are they?
95 Wuerffel @ Florida (178)
99 Hamilton @ GA Tech (175)
94 Collins @ Penn St (173)
96 Wuerffel @ Florida (170)
95 Hoying @ Ohio St (170)
98 Smith @ Oregon (170)
.
Yes, that means no P5 QB has a top-100 passer rating season before 1994, due to the modern high-volume, high-efficiency passing games of the last 20 years.
Wow.
.
For fun, I altered these few seasons to what they would look like, given "best-QB-season-ever" Joe Burrow's 527 attempts in 2019.  The comp, att, yds, TDs, and INTs (counting stats) are altered, while the rate stats (comp %, pass rating) are not.
Just taking a break from creating orders for WN.
.
95 Wuerffel:  340 comp on 527 att for 5,281 yds and 57 TDs - 16 Int (178 pass rating)
99 Hamilton:  350 comp on 527 att for 5,285 yds and 50 TDs - 19 Int (175)
94 Collins:  351 comp on 527 att for 5,347 yds and 42 TDs - 14 Int (173)
96 Wuerffel:  303 comp on 527 att for 5,303 yds and 57 TDs - 19 Int (170)
95 Hoying:  334 comp on 527 att for 5,257 yds and 49 TDs - 19 Int (170)
98 Akili Smith:  310 comp on 527 att for 5,361 yds and 49 TDs - 11 Int (170)
.
The point of this isn't to say any of these player seasons was as good as Burrow's (they weren't, his rating was 202), just that their seasons were insanely good and just as bombastic if given the pass attempts. 
Also shows how the passing game explosion has been TOTAL, when only 6 of the top 100 passer seasons happened pre-2000, and none of the top 37.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2024, 08:53:27 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 
Fulgencio Batista (1901)
Batista was a soldier, president, and dictator who twice ruled Cuba. After working his way up through the army, he ruled first through associates before becoming president himself in 1940. In his first term, he achieved gains in education, public works, and the economy while enriching himself and his associates. He lost the 1944 election but returned to power through a US backed coup in 1952 and ran a corrupt and brutal dictatorship that set the stage for his overthrow in 1959
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 17, 2024, 09:30:10 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Captain James Cook Crosses Antarctic Circle (1773)
An explorer, navigator, and map maker, Cook sailed the Pacific Ocean between 1768 and 1779 and, with the help of new timekeeping instruments, drew the first accurate navigational maps of the area. He became the one of the first people to cross the Antarctic Circle as well as the first European to land on the Hawaiian islands, where he may have been identified by native Hawaiians as the representation of their god Lono.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2024, 08:56:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Dr. William Price Introduces Cremation to the UK (1884)
Price was a Welsh physician, Druid, and famous eccentric best known for introducing cremation to the UK. Eight days after the death of his five-month-old son, Jesus Christ Price, Price attempted to burn the body in accordance with his Druid beliefs. After lighting the pyre, he was arrested, but he successfully defended himself in court, resulting in a decision that set a precedent leading to the permanent legalization of cremation in the UK.


_________________________________________

Weird
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2024, 09:24:55 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Sten Sture the Younger Mortally Wounded in Battle (1520)
Sture was a Swedish statesman and regent of Sweden. When he refused to recognize Christian II of Denmark as king of Sweden, Christian sent a force to aid Sture's rival, Archbishop Gustaf Trolle, whom Sture had deposed and who was besieged in his castle. Sture defeated the Danish army and imprisoned Trolle. Warfare continued, and Sture was killed in battle, but not before he paved the way for Swedish independence, which was attained under Gustavus I.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2024, 06:27:37 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Fgu28Hn.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 19, 2024, 07:21:25 PM
The “Inquisition’s Chair,” known as the “witch’s chair,” was highly regarded as a good remedy against silent women accused of witchcraft. This common tool was especially widely used by the Austrian Inquisition.

(https://i.imgur.com/JZA4Jsp.png)
Hope the designers who implemented this are now taking their joyrides - for the rest of whatever

PS -  looks like something Cleveland Sport Fans have endured since '48 & '64 respectively
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 19, 2024, 08:19:47 PM
It's what I imagine plane seats on flights to Australia look like...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2024, 09:39:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Edward VIII Becomes King (1936)
Edward VIII became king of Great Britain and Ireland upon the death of his father, George V, in 1936. He enjoyed immense popularity until the announcement of his intention to marry Wallis Warfield Simpson, an American in the midst of divorcing her second husband. The government opposed the marriage, and the two sides clashed until Edward executed a deed of abdication, ending a 325-day reign as the first English monarch to relinquish his throne voluntarily.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2024, 08:50:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
After 16 Years of Terrorizing New York City, Mad Bomber Arrested (1957)
Known as the Mad Bomber, George P. Metesky terrorized New York City for 16 years in the 1940s and 1950s with dozens of explosive devices that he planted in terminals, libraries, offices, phone booths, storage lockers, and restrooms in public buildings. He also bombed movie theaters by hiding his bombs within the upholstery of the seats. Metesky planted at least 33 bombs, and despite the fact that he often placed warning calls in advance of his bombings, 15 people were injured.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2024, 08:38:16 PM
***Hospodář ***
The photo is of Czechoslovak Publishing, home of the West News, and specifically,
The West News, Centennial Edition 1890-1990, November 1990. From the Sonny Helm Collection
The Hospodář was founded by Jan Rosicky in Omaha, Nebraska in 1890/91 and then continued publishing in West, Texas. The paper continued publication in the Czech language until 1985. During the communist control the paper was mailed to Czechoslovakia, in part to help challenge propaganda being spread there.
Now if the word hospodář means farmer, then how do we get hospóda as the word for tavern? What is the connection? Note that *hospóda also means house. *In Hungry the word hospod means Lord (God). So in the Slavic languages this very well is used as be the base of the word and how it came into use for “lord of the house” (or property, farm or tavern).
The word for lord or master came from the Proto-Slavic word gospodü. In Czech the archaic term for master was hospodář Note that in the various Slavic languages some use the h beginning and some use the g.
The Czech hospodář (archaic term for "master"). All forms stem from the Proto-Slavik word gospodü In Czech, the word Hospodin (capitalized) is another address to God.
And so the use of the word hospodář for the Czech newspaper, means more than just farmer, it essentially means lord of the land.
Oh, and the Czech word for tavern, hospod, has nothing to do with being a place of worship (while there are some who may disagree).


(https://i.imgur.com/zqUO65U.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2024, 08:41:26 AM
Terezín

The fortress of Terezín was constructed in the late 18th century in what is now the Czech Republic. In the early 1900s, it held famed prisoner Gavrilo Princip, who assassinated the Archduke of Austria, causing the outbreak of WWI. The Nazis took control of Terezín in 1940 and quickly turned it into concentration camp called Theresienstadt. The camp was presented to the outside world as a model Jewish settlement,  approximately 144,000 Jews were sent to Theresienstadt
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2024, 08:42:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Elva Zona Heaster Discovered Dead (1897)
Shortly after marrying drifter Erasmus Shue, Heaster was found dead and was soon buried. Her mother, who suspected foul play, claimed to have had a vision in which her daughter's ghost stated that Shue had broken her neck, killing her. When the body was exhumed, an autopsy confirmed that Heaster's neck had been broken, and Shue was tried for murder. the ghost—since known as the Greenbrier Ghost for Heaster's hometown of Greenbrier County, West Virginia
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 23, 2024, 09:30:53 AM
Terezín

The fortress of Terezín was constructed in the late 18th century in what is now the Czech Republic. 
Nice old corner pub on the other side of town called the Czech Inn - think it's still there
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2024, 10:51:29 AM
can ya get a bag of kolaches there to soak up the beer
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 23, 2024, 11:09:09 AM
Kolaches weren't very easy to find when I visited the Czech Republic.  They're far more plentiful here in Texico.

I guess they're not so commercialized over there-- perhaps it's something grandma bakes just for the family on Sunday afternoons, rather than a common bakery item?

I finally found some at a little convenience store located inside the subway tunnels under Prague.  That store also had 6-packs of Bernard Czech pilsner for what equaled about $0.25/bottle.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 24, 2024, 08:21:41 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Japanese WWII Soldier Found Hiding in Guam Jungle (1972)
Shoichi Yokoi was a Japanese soldier who went into hiding in the jungles of Guam in 1944 as Allied forces took the island; 28 years later, he was still there. He had hidden in an underground cave, fearing to come out of hiding even after finding leaflets declaring that WWII had ended. In 1972, he was found by hunters and returned to Japan. He was the third-to-last Japanese soldier to surrender after the war, before Hiroo Onoda and Teruo Nakamura.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 25, 2024, 07:27:15 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
League of Nations Founded (1919)
The League of Nations was an organization for international cooperation, peace, and security established by the Allied Powers at the end of WWI. A league covenant providing for an assembly, a council, and a secretariat was formulated at the Paris Peace Conference and contained in the Treaty of Versailles. Headquartered at Geneva, the League was weakened by the failure of the US, which had not ratified the Treaty of Versailles, to join the confederation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 25, 2024, 07:28:04 AM


Pirate Mary Read
Read, an Englishwoman who was born in the late 17th century, spent much of her life disguised as a man and working in industries generally reserved for men. She was on a ship bound for the West Indies when it was captured by pirate captain Calico Jack Rackham. Read joined his crew and became one of the most notorious female pirates of the time. When Rackham's ship was captured and the crew sentenced to death, Read received a stay of execution after she “pled her belly,”
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 26, 2024, 08:46:47 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Rum Rebellion (1808)
The Rum Rebellion of 1808 was the only successful armed takeover of government in the history of Australia. It began when New South Wales governor William Bligh was deposed by George Johnston, commander of the New South Wales Corps. The coup was a retaliation against attempts by successive governors to curb the power of the Corps and interfere with its lucrative rum trade—which gave the rebellion its name. The coup was the second time Bligh had been the victim of a rebellion.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2024, 09:09:44 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Tn4UOAO.png)

Hedges of course are not unique to this place.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2024, 10:30:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
League of Nations Founded (1919)
The League of Nations was an organization for international cooperation, peace, and security established by the Allied Powers at the end of WWI.  Headquartered at Geneva, the League was weakened by the failure of the US, which had not ratified the Treaty of Versailles, to join the confederation.
 Interesting how history is explained in such simple terms, That's a bit of misleading because in real time the realization on this side of the Atlantic soon settled in that the TREATY was anything but fair to the Central Powers. Or even American  positions,Woodrow Wilson wanted to use the L of N to referee disputes amoungst all counties to avoid wars.The treaty forced Germany to disarm, to make territorial concessions,and to pay reparations to Britain/France in staggering amounts.Reparations the British Crown had never paid to ANYONE when they invaded countries near/far like Ireland/India/USA/S,Africa & everyone else for 350 yrs or so prior.

 The Treaty enforced British/French convictions that fostered hyper inflation and carved up huge swaths of German lands giving them to France and Poland then gave Germany the bill for a war started in the Balkans. Austria/Hungary paid very little in a strange twist as Germany came to their aid. The treaty in the US Congress was voted down for many reasons, Britain failing to repay loans to the US Treasury was surely was one of them.Then why should others pay the Crowns King/Lords/Princes off that don't honor their debts? 

 The League and it's Treaty was viewed afar with Imperialistic interests and manipulations that indeed led to WWII because at the very least the Germans would want their lands back .Afterwards when Hitler consolidated power why he assailed the Russian/Jewish people and conviced others to join him was anyone's guess.Considering settling scores with the British/French should have been the primary aim



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2024, 10:44:46 AM
I have pondered before whether "we" would be better off had the Germans won WW One.  I think the US would have been.

France would have lost a bit more territory, probably, and Belgium and Holland would be de facto German colonies (probably).  The L of N would not have worked any better than the UN has.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2024, 10:56:17 AM
I have pondered before whether "we" would be better off had the Germans won WW One. I think the US would have been.

France would have lost a bit more territory, probably, and Belgium and Holland would be de facto German colonies (probably).  The L of N would not have worked any better than the UN has.
IMO financially perhaps but seeing it was a hedonistic butcher and not simply nationalistc types the Fuhrer would have pressed on. Hitler I'm sure would not have stopped.Now if one of the 43 assinations attemps worked then perhaps things work out for the better but then Stalin is always a fly in the ointment/conversation
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2024, 11:04:50 AM
WW One, not Two, no Hitler.  The German Empire under the Kaiser is strengthened and dominates Europe with only England a weaker counter weight.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2024, 11:11:27 AM
Oh ya pretty hard to oppose that as even up to including WWII the British would excersize it whims as it saw fit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2024, 11:22:53 AM
Had the Germans stuck with the Schlieffen Plan and not moved troops to the east at the wrong time, they might have won a quick one.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2024, 11:44:24 AM
I haven't studied a lot of battles per se more like the history leading up to and it's after math.But one interesting point i had read that 2 years - 1914 and 1918 suposedly had the most casualties. The years '15-'16-'17 though certainly brutal and miserable were trench warfare with very little agency besides the usual mass charges that proved foolish and deadly then everyone returned to Hunkering down again.Many troops succumbed to the elemnets and all sorts illnesses chronic/disabling sickness dysentery,diarrhea,typhus,typhoid and such.Not forgetting the Spanish Flu that could have started on the battle fields themselves and not in Spain

 Point being is when armies were marching they made much easier targets and things ramped up late in the war. Like when doughboys came and they went on more forced marches to flank enemy positions forcing the war to end one way or another
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2024, 12:15:13 PM
The "Spainish Flu" is not called that because it started in Spain, at all.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 26, 2024, 12:43:40 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Tn4UOAO.png)

Hedges of course are not unique to this place.

Do you know what kind of hedges UGA has?  We have some Boxwood Hedges that decorate our front porch area.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2024, 12:57:43 PM
According to four different horticulturists at the University of Georgia, the shrub is Chinese privet, Ligustrum sinense. I’m not sure where the confusion occurred. My guess is that a non-horticultural writer got confused with English boxwood and their misinformation has been repeated ad infinitum.

These Chinamen be taking over everywhere.

Chinese Privet at Sanford Stadium | Lowndes – Echols Ag News (uga.edu) (https://site.extension.uga.edu/lowndesecholsag/2018/08/chinese-privet-at-sanford-stadium/)

Chinese privet has one claim to fame in Georgia.  The famed hedges in the University of Georgia’s Sanford Stadium are composed of Chinese privet plants.  When Sanford Stadium was built in the 1920’s, the business manager of the athletic association had been impressed with the rose bushes in the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, California and wanted to have something similar in UGA’s new stadium.  Rose bushes were deemed not to be the best choice for the Athens climate, so Chinese privet was planted.  The privet was reportedIy trucked into Athens from Atlanta as the result of a last-minute decision and planted by workers with shovels and flashlights just hours before the stadium’s inaugural game against Yale. I have heard a story that a species other than Chinese privet was originally planted and the Chinese privet later invaded and pushed out the previously planted plants.  I have found no documentation supporting this legend.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2024, 01:09:07 PM
Everything You Need To Know About Privet (southernliving.com) (https://www.southernliving.com/garden/weeds/privet)

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]The villain is a large, evergreen shrub or small tree called Chinese privet (Ligustrum sinense). [/color]It's worse than kudzu (https://www.southernliving.com/garden/grumpy-gardener/10-awful-weeds-and-how-to-kill-them), according to the scientists tracking its spread. Worse than kudzu. [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]That's because kudzu needs sun to grow. Chinese privet, on the other hand, grows just about anywhere. In sun. In shade. In wet soil. In dry soil. In the city. In the country. All over more than 3 million acres of Southern forests and now spreading as far north as Massachusetts.[/color]

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]It entered the South from its native Asia as an ornamental plant in 1852. Nurseries in towns like Birmingham, Atlanta, and Jackson often ignored its true appellation and sold it simply as "hedge." (A fellow I once did a story on named Dr. Dirt calls it "privy hedge," because he always saw it growing next to the privy. I think it's better thrown into a privy than planted next to it.) Thus, infestations of this botanical nightmare are worse around cities and suburbs than in rural areas. For now.[/color]


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2024, 02:11:57 PM
The "Spainish Flu" is not called that because it started in Spain, at all.
Ya I think it was labeled such as Spain in such proximity to battle fields is were it was 1st noticed in the civilian population.When many at war war could have succumbed to it but with all the mayhem every death couldn't be confirmed just guessed except battle wounds
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 26, 2024, 03:20:43 PM
The "Spainish Flu" is not called that because it started in Spain, at all.
It is a pretty funny story how it got that name.
Ya I think it was labeled such as Spain in such proximity to battle fields is were it was 1st noticed in the civilian population.When many at war war could have succumbed to it but with all the mayhem every death couldn't be confirmed just guessed except battle wounds
Mostly it was because the warring powers had enacted press censorship so reporting about the Flu was forbidden. 

Spain was neutral and had no censorship so it was reported there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 27, 2024, 08:54:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Siege of Leningrad Is Lifted (1944)
During WWII, German and Finnish forces invaded the Soviet Union and encircled the city of Leningrad—now St. Petersburg—blocking supply lines for 872 days. Sparse food and fuel supplies delivered by barge and sled kept the city's arms factories operating and its 2 million inhabitants barely alive, while 1 million children and sick and elderly people were evacuated. Still, hundreds of thousands died of starvation, disease, and shelling from German artillery.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 27, 2024, 09:21:37 AM
"In the vibrant streets of Manhattan in 1892, there were a group of hot potato vendors who sold a unique variety of potatoes known as "mickeys." These mickeys were not your ordinary potatoes; they had a distinct taste and texture that set them apart from all others.

The hot potato vendors would set up their carts in strategic locations throughout the city, attracting customers with the tantalizing aroma of their freshly cooked mickeys. The mickeys were named after their creator, Mickey, a skilled potato farmer who had perfected the art of growing and cooking these potatoes.

Mickey's mickeys were renowned for their crispy exterior and fluffy interior. People would line up eagerly, waiting for their turn to savor the deliciousness of these potatoes. The vendors would carefully slice the mickeys into thin strips and fry them to perfection, ensuring that each customer received a piping hot batch of crispy goodness.

The mickeys quickly gained popularity among both locals and tourists. The vendors would often share stories about the origins of these unique potatoes, adding to the intrigue and allure. People would come from all corners of the city to taste the mickeys, and the hot potato vendors became an integral part of the bustling street culture of Manhattan.

The hot potato vendors would offer a variety of toppings and seasonings to accompany the mickeys. Some customers preferred them plain, allowing the natural flavors of the potato to shine through. Others would opt for toppings like melted cheese, sour cream, or even a sprinkle of bacon bits, adding an extra layer of indulgence to their potato experience.

As the mickeys gained popularity, the hot potato vendors became local celebrities. Their carts became gathering spots for friends and colleagues, where they would enjoy a quick and satisfying meal while engaging in lively conversations. The vendors would often share stories and jokes, creating a warm and welcoming atmosphere for all who visited.

The hot potato vendors and their mickeys became an integral part of the cultural fabric of Manhattan in 1892. Their presence added a touch of culinary delight to the bustling streets, creating a sense of community and shared enjoyment. The legacy of the hot potato vendors and their mickeys lives on, reminding us of the simple pleasures that can be found in a humble hot potato."


(https://i.imgur.com/RWl2NGf.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2024, 09:36:52 AM
I've visited several American military cemeteries in France and it's astonishing how many deaths occured in 1919.  The flu killed more than the war.  (It probably started in Kansas, maybe.)  I know when COVID first hit some worried it would be akin to 1919.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2024, 10:25:18 AM
How did a world wide epidemic start in wide open wind swept Kansas? I can see populations centers on the coasts where ships arrive/depart frequently from all over but the middle of Dorothy's sparcely populated paradise?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 27, 2024, 10:33:49 AM
why ask why?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2024, 10:39:53 AM
How did a world wide epidemic start in wide open wind swept Kansas? I can see populations centers on the coasts where ships arrive/depart frequently from all over but the middle of Dorothy's sparcely populated paradise?
Military training camps.


Purple Death: The Great Flu of 1918 - PAHO/WHO | Pan American Health Organization

 (https://www.paho.org/en/who-we-are/history-paho/purple-death-great-flu-1918#:~:text=Despite its name%2C researchers believe,breeding ground for the virus.)
Quote
No matter what they called it, the virus attacked everyone similarly. It started like any other influenza case, with a sore throat, chills and fever. Then came the deadly twist: the virus ravaged its victim's lungs.
(https://www.paho.org/en/who-we-are/history-paho/purple-death-great-flu-1918#:~:text=Despite its name%2C researchers believe,breeding ground for the virus.)Despite its name, researchers believe the Spanish flu most likely originated in the United States. One of the first recorded cases was on March 11, 1918, at Fort Riley in Kansas. Overcrowding and unsanitary conditions created a fertile breeding ground for the virus. Within one week, 522 men had been admitted to the camp hospital suffering from the same severe influenza. Soon after, the army reported similar outbreaks in Virginia, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama and California. Navy ships docked at East Coast ports also reported outbreaks of severe influenza and pneumonia among their crews. The flu seemed to target military personnel and not civilians, so the virus was largely overshadowed by hotter current affairs such as Prohibition, the suffragette movement and the bloody battles in Europe.
 (https://www.paho.org/en/who-we-are/history-paho/purple-death-great-flu-1918#:~:text=Despite its name%2C researchers believe,breeding ground for the virus.)By May 1918, influenza began to subside in the United States. But the ordeal was by no means over. Soldiers at Fort Riley, now ready for battle, incubated the virus during their long, cramped voyage to France. Once they hit French shores, the virus exploded, striking the Allied forces and Central Powers with equal force. The Americans fell ill with "three-day fever" or "purple death." The French caught "purulent bronchitis." The Italians suffered "sand fly fever." German hospitals filled with victims of Blitzkatarrh or "Flanders fever."
 (https://www.paho.org/en/who-we-are/history-paho/purple-death-great-flu-1918#:~:text=Despite its name%2C researchers believe,breeding ground for the virus.)
No matter what they called it, the virus attacked everyone similarly. It started like any other influenza case, with a sore throat, chills and fever. Then came the deadly twist: the virus ravaged its victim's lungs. Sometimes within hours, patients succumbed to complete respiratory failure. Autopsies showed hard, red lungs drenched in fluid. A microscopic look at diseased lung tissue revealed that the alveoli, the lungs' normally air-filled cells, were so full of fluid that victims literally drowned. The slow suffocation began when patients presented with a unique symptom: mahogany spots over their cheekbones. Within hours these patients turned a bluish-black hue indicative of cyanosis, or lack of oxygen. When triaging scores of new patients, nurses often looked at the patients' feet first. Those with black feet were considered beyond help and were carted off to die.

 (https://www.paho.org/en/who-we-are/history-paho/purple-death-great-flu-1918#:~:text=Despite its name%2C researchers believe,breeding ground for the virus.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2024, 10:46:08 AM
So, in an alternate history, imagine that the German forces in 1914 continued their sweep west of Paris meeting little resistance beyond supply issues.  Paris gets surrounded, much as in 1871, and holds out a bit, and then the French ask for terms.  The Germans probably take a bit more land in the east near Lorraine, African colonies, and ask for "reparations".  The Brits board ships and go home.  Belgium becomes a German proxy state.  Whilhelm II is hailed a hero and remains Kaiser in charge of the dominant state in Europe and probably the world.

No Hitler, no WW 2, no Holocaust.  Germany probably then takes swathes of land from the Poles and Russians for "lebensraum" and Tsar Nicholas teeters in power, but Lenin of course remains in prison.  Austria-Hungary remains as an empire of sorts, maybe grabs some land from Italy.    The Serbian issue is dealt with rather harshly.

Turkey remains the Ottoman Empire, also teetering and weakened, but never engage in the war.  Perhaps both Russia and the Ottomans face revolts and perhaps change governments, it's likely perhaps.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2024, 10:59:43 AM
The census bureau numbers had 104 million people living in the USA in 1917. Just because it wasn't recorded, Europe had many more packed in per square mile and in close proximity.While that report may be accurate for the USA how could we possibly know the information from all the many various countries overseas? And when they were 1st afflicted? No one could possibly know how everyone who died of a virus or which one was directly responsible
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2024, 12:31:51 PM
The virus had very common symptoms, unlike COVID.  The 50 million figure is of course a rough estimate.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2024, 12:49:57 PM
The virus had very common symptoms, unlike COVID.  The 50 million figure is of course a rough estimate.
Honestly I think a lot of it is that medical care in general is, well, a century ahead of where it was then. I don't know what the COVID death toll would have been if it happened in 1918, but I feel confident it would be multiples if not necessarily an order of magnitude higher. 

That said, one key difference as I understand is that the Spanish Flu really hit the younger healthier crowd by triggering their healthy and strong immune systems to overreact. That's a confounding factor that I don't know how to account for. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2024, 03:19:00 PM
Honestly I think a lot of it is that medical care in general is, well, a century ahead of where it was then. I don't know what the COVID death toll would have been if it happened in 1918, but I feel confident it would be multiples if not necessarily an order of magnitude higher.

That said, one key difference as I understand is that the Spanish Flu really hit the younger healthier crowd by triggering their healthy and strong immune systems to overreact. That's a confounding factor that I don't know how to account for.
I read somewhere a theory is that there had been a similar but less severe flu sometime in the early 1890's.

It has been touched on in the discussion in this thread but what @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) and I are talking about here is an oddity about the Spanish Flu. Typically a Flu is most likely to be fatal among the elderly and among infants. In the case of the Spanish Flu fatalities were very high among military aged young adults at it wasn't just because they were in the army and got it more. It had a higher fatality rate per infection among young adults as well. This is extremely unusual because 20-somethings are typically at peak health so they typically have the lowest fatalities.

The theory of a similar Flu in the early 1890's would provide an explanation because everyone over about 30 in 1918 would have been alive in the early 1890's and thus likely to have been exposed to and to have developed antibodies for the earlier Flu while the military aged 20-somethings had been born AFTER the early 1890's so they would not have been exposed to the earlier Flu and thus they would have lacked those antibodies.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2024, 03:24:54 PM
This is from a Cornhusker YouTube channel so @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) should like it.

These popped up in my YouTube feed and I found them interesting:
https://youtu.be/OEEtsbOlCBU?si=pxIZ5bKUvODhu4SG

https://youtu.be/c28x5EY4tLY?si=7uX7loGVdpyDA5CZ

https://youtu.be/Lb-3ks6F1b8?si=Hc7weLj5CIkiIIqs

https://youtu.be/GIDD--o27OI?si=X0bqneXgLBJaBtIt

https://youtu.be/rxK1VaHFMlI?si=HE00J3y63lo5C7WV
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 27, 2024, 03:27:17 PM
yes, there are accounts of UNL shutting down because the student body was affected
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2024, 03:47:40 PM
The theory of a similar Flu in the early 1890's would provide an explanation because everyone over about 30 in 1918 would have been alive in the early 1890's and thus likely to have been exposed to and to have developed antibodies for the earlier Flu while the military aged 20-somethings had been born AFTER the early 1890's so they would not have been exposed to the earlier Flu and thus they would have lacked those antibodies.
Makes sense exposed earlier and gradually built up resistance,Spock would approve. Back to my earlier point Kansas may have been the jumping off point in this country for the virus because of said barracks. I don't think it hatched here though,me thinks packed ships or trenches as the euros were mixing it up 3 yrs prior to the Dough Boys arriving.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2024, 03:49:26 PM
And Namby-Pambyism must be stopped in ahr lifetime befoe it kiells sumboddy
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2024, 03:59:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eMbVizc.jpg)

814 AD after the death of Charlesmagne.  There was no "England" yet by that name.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 27, 2024, 04:17:49 PM
but, it says England right on the map
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2024, 04:19:00 PM
The English are a race of self made men—which absolves the Almighty of the terrible crime.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2024, 09:49:52 PM
And Namby-Pambyism must be stopped in ahr lifetime befoe it kiells sumboddy
If it's so namby-pamby, it should be easy to stop.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2024, 07:01:39 AM
UGA celebrates 239th birthday | Facts about the university | 11alive.com (https://www.11alive.com/article/sports/college/georgia-bulldogs/uga-celebrates-239th-birthday/85-28d6a387-42fc-4ace-a27b-a7fd6c059383?fbclid=IwAR0pl3ZNrR90G7bZYlhqHxqfYAKE7HWc1_J83pmspMQ7anlriyT2yb2e5_c)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2024, 08:21:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Horace Walpole Coins the Word "Serendipity" (1754)
Defined as the faculty of making fortunate discoveries by accident, the word "serendipity" was first coined in 1754 by English author Horace Walpole in one of his more than 3,000 letters. In it, he explains that the root of his new word is taken from "The Three Princes of Serendip," a Persian fairytale about princes who "were always making discoveries, by accidents and sagacity, of things which they were not in quest of."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2024, 09:35:28 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Bear River Massacre (1863)
The Bear River Massacre took place in 1863 when the US Army attacked Shoshone gathered at the confluence of the Bear River and Beaver Creek in what is now Idaho. The incident began when Colonel Patrick Edward Connor led a detachment of approximately 200 US Army soldiers as part of the an expedition against Shoshone Chief Bear Hunter, who had strongly resisted colonization of tribal areas. Some 250 Shoshone were killed in the attack, including Bear Hunter.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2024, 10:51:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8bqccvZ.png)

Until 1920, children could be mailed through the US Postal service! They had to be under 50 pounds, and stamps were affixed to their clothes. It was cheaper for many people to ship children than to put them on a train, and the children rode on a train (in the mail car) anyway---being watched and fed by mail clerks. The record distance? Over 700 miles from Florida to Virginia for a mere 15 cents in stamps. It really was "A Simpler Time"'. (courtesy of today's Wall St. Journal)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2024, 11:33:03 PM
Well I'd say that definitely qualifies as weird history.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 30, 2024, 10:25:50 AM
I was searching Youtube for something else entirely, and this came up.  Wasn't sure where to put it, but it's sort-of historical, so why not here?

I've always loved TV theme shows, as a kid of the 70s/80s they're sort of the "fabric of my life."  60s kids can probably say that too, and 90s kids.  But now those decades are sort of isolated in history.  Kids these days don't consume television and pop culture in general, anywhere close to the way I did.  So this sort of thing has become anachronistic, but I still love delving into the history of it all.

It's interesting because of the below TV/cartoon themes, I don't recognize a single one before 1967's Abbott and Costello cartoon, and I know pretty much every single one thereafter.  Anyway, here ya are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8RHVd5dg_A
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2024, 08:45:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Ham the Chimp Becomes First Hominid Launched into Outer Space (1961)
Ham was chosen from 40 chimpanzee flight candidates at New Mexico's Holloman Air Force Base to be the first hominid launched into outer space. He was named after an acronym for the lab that prepared him for his historic mission—the Holloman Aerospace Medical Center—and was trained to do simple tasks. In 1961, he was launched into space in a Project Mercury capsule from Cape Canaveral, Florida, and splashed down in the Atlantic Ocean a short time later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 01, 2024, 09:08:07 AM
"Wrong Way" Corrigan

In 1938, American aviator Douglas "Wrong Way" Corrigan made his infamous, unauthorized transatlantic flight from New York to Ireland. He claimed that during a planned flight to California, heavy cloud cover and low light conditions obscured landmarks and led him to misread his compass. In the years leading up to Corrigan's “navigational error,” he had applied several times for permission to make the transoceanic trip, but was always rejected.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2024, 09:28:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Alexander Selkirk Rescued after Four Years Stranded on a Desert Island (1709)
Selkirk was an unruly Scottish sailor who quarreled with his captain and asked to be put ashore on an island in the Pacific. Tired of Selkirk's troublemaking, the captain granted him his wish. Selkirk promptly regretted his decision and chased after the boat, but to no avail. He survived on the desert island by eating shellfish and goats and domesticated feral cats to keep himself safe from rats. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2024, 09:41:02 AM
Soviet spy Colonel Oleg Penkovsky provided valuable information about the status of the Soviet Union's nuclear weapons to both the CIA and British intelligence. The KGB arrested him on October 22, 1962, in Moscow and most likely executed him shortly after.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2024, 10:09:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Day the Music Died (1959)
During an extensive tour of the midwestern US, American rock-and-roll musician Buddy Holly chartered a small plane to transport him to his next gig. Fellow performers Richie Valens and J.P. Richardson, who was known as "The Big Bopper," filled the remaining seats. Tragically, the plane crashed, killing everyone on board. The event was later called "the day the music died" by Don McLean in his song "American Pie."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2024, 09:00:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Chávez Leads Coup d'État against Venezuelan President Pérez (1992)
In 1989, Venezuelan President Carlos Pérez returned to office amid demonstrations and riots sparked by deteriorating social conditions. Three years later, Lieutenant Colonel Hugo Chávez led an unsuccessful coup against Pérez and was jailed as a result. Pérez escaped another coup attempt later that year, but in 1993 he was removed from office on corruption charges and later imprisoned on charges of embezzlement and misuse of public funds.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2024, 09:42:43 PM
Namesake of Offutt Field and Offutt Air Force Base - Jarvis Offutt - A graduate of Yale University, Jarvis Offutt entered WWI as a ferry pilot with the British Royal Air Force and flew new airplanes every day from factories to holding fields over the English Channel. He was killed practicing an aggressive maneuver in an S. E. 5 airplane over France in 1918. He was the first WWI casulty from Omaha. He was mistakenly buried in Pennsylvania under the name of Private Walter Heltman until 1923 when his body was exhumed and returned home to Omaha. Offutt field was named for him in 1924 and Offutt Air Force Base was named in 1948. — in Offutt Air Force Base, NE.

(https://i.imgur.com/lCwwO13.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2024, 07:46:45 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Royal Greenwich Observatory Begins Broadcasting Hourly Time Signals (1924)
The Greenwich Time Signal, popularly known as "the pips," is a series of six short tones broadcast by many BBC radio stations at the end of each hour to mark the precise start of the following hour. Devised by Astronomer Royal Frank Dyson in 1924, the signal consists of six pips that occur on the five seconds leading up to the hour, with the beginning of the sixth pip marking the actual moment when the hour changes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2024, 08:51:00 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Munich Air Disaster (1958)
In 1958, a British European Airways airliner carrying the Manchester United soccer team along with a number of staff members, supporters, and journalists crashed on its third attempt to take off from a slush-covered runway at Germany's Munich-Riem airport. Twenty-three of the 44 passengers on board died in the disaster. There was speculation that the club would have to fold, but the threadbare team completed the season
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2024, 09:10:24 AM
Really sad, you'd think after a couple of failed attempts they'd just call it off and wait for better conditions.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2024, 09:55:32 AM
3rd time wasn't a charm
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2024, 08:18:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Cripple Creek Miners' Strike (1894)
In 1891, gold was discovered on a cattle ranch in Cripple Creek, Colorado, creating one of the richest camps of a major gold-producing area. Two years later, the Western Federation of Miners (WFM) was established by the merger of several local miners' unions in the Rocky Mountain states. In 1894, the WFM led a five-month strike in Cripple Creek, resulting in a victory for the miners. The strike began when mine owners attempted to lengthen the work day—with no increase in pay
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2024, 08:36:37 PM
After Joachim Neumann, a civil engineering student, escaped East Berlin by pretending to be a Swiss tourist, he spent the next five months digging a tunnel from West to East Berlin. He ultimately helped his girlfriend and 57 other people escape.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2024, 07:31:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Orangeburg Massacre (1968)
In the Orangeburg massacre, local police in Orangeburg, South Carolina, fired into a crowd of about 200 people protesting segregation, killing three students and injuring 27 others. Although the incident predated the Kent State shootings and Jackson State killings and was the first incident of its kind on a US college campus, the Orangeburg Massacre received relatively little media coverage.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 09, 2024, 07:52:26 AM
Laura Scudder created the first modern bag of potato chips in 1953. Previously, they were sold out of wooden barrels or scooped from behind glass counters.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2024, 05:09:22 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
HMS Dreadnought Is Launched (1906)
The HMS Dreadnought of the Royal Navy was a battleship that revolutionized naval power when it entered service in 1906. Dreadnought represented such a marked advance in naval technology that its name came to be associated with an entire generation of battleships, the "dreadnoughts," as well as the class of ships named for it, while the generation of ships it made obsolete became known as "pre-dreadnoughts."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 05:37:07 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/1GI3SaL.png)

When I was a kid, I'd draw pictures of ships with guns everywhere not knowing how massive a full gun emplacement has to be.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 11, 2024, 07:41:31 AM
After Joachim Neumann, a civil engineering student, escaped East Berlin by pretending to be a Swiss tourist, he spent the next five months digging a tunnel from West to East Berlin. He ultimately helped his girlfriend and 57 other people escape.
That dewd was determined & persistant and accomplished a hell of a feat - he gets a Yuengling
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2024, 08:37:43 AM
dude was lonely for his girlfriend

5 months is a LONG time
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2024, 08:43:15 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Anthracite Coal First Burned as Residential Heating Fuel (1808)
Anthracite is a compact variety of coal that was first burned as a residential heating fuel in the US by Judge Jesse Fell in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. It differs from wood in that it needs a draft from below. By burning it on an open grate in a fireplace, Fell proved that it could be a viable heating fuel. Fell's experiment took place 18 years after anthracite coal was said to have been discovered in Pennsylvania by hunter Necho Allen.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 10:51:24 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QvaY1n2.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/8D5sD5C.png)

USS Texas, often termed a "super dreadnaught".
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 11:51:06 AM
5 of history's strangest scientific theories - Big Think (https://bigthink.com/health/strangest-scientific-theories/#Echobox=1707661014)

Some humans will believe rather strange things at times, including today.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2024, 06:22:43 AM
10 FEBRUARY 1906 - On this day, King Edward VII launched HMS Dreadnought. Built to counter German naval expansion and to match the new ‘two power standing’, where the British fleet should outnumber the combined fleets of two other powers, the Dreadnought was the first to come with a uniform main battery and the first capital ship to be powered by steam turbines.
Work began on HMS Dreadnought in 1905 at Portsmouth Harbour and was launched just a year later at a ceremony broadcast throughout the nation. The Dreadnought became the flagship of the home fleet just a year later.
Despite the excitement surrounding this revolutionary new battleship, Dreadnought did not have a particularly distinguished career. After becoming the only battleship to sink a submarine, it failed to see significant action and was relegated to a coastal defence role in May 1916. By February 1919, Dreadnought had been decommissioned before being sold for scrap.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2024, 09:43:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

National Association for the Advancement of Colored People Founded (1909)
The oldest and largest US civil rights organization, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) was formed as a result of the 1908 race riots in Springfield, Illinois. In 1939, it organized the Legal Defense and Education Fund as its legal arm, which sued for school desegregation in Brown v. Board of Education. During World War II, it pressed for desegregation of the armed forces, which was achieved in 1948.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2024, 07:56:14 AM
The Hand Cannon

The hand cannon, which dates back to the late 13th century, was the first handheld portable firearm. The origin of the weapon is widely disputed, and a number of groups, including the Arabs, Chinese, Mongols, and Europeans, claim credit for its invention. Though the hand cannon lacked accuracy and was fairly unwieldy, its armor-penetrating capabilities eventually brought the simple weapon to the forefront of European warfare.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2024, 01:45:09 PM
Some of you may find this interesting... @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) especially as a fellow gEEk. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF8d72mA41M
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2024, 02:08:10 PM
Some of you may find this interesting... @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) especially as a fellow gEEk.


Cliff notes please?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2024, 02:25:11 PM
Cliff notes please?
The blue LED was a holy grail of electronics but was an AMAZINGLY difficult nut to crack. A Japanese engineer who was working for a Japanese company whose semiconductor business was mostly failing convinced the company president to let him work on it. He started doing so, and slowly chipping away at the big unsolved problems with the blue LED. The president retired and his son took over and kept threatening the engineer to stop work on it, which he ignored. Eventually he solved all the problems--largely following the paths that most in the industry thought were the least possible paths of development, and the rest is history. 

Sort of a story of one man's dogged pursuit of something and succeeding against nearly all odds or expectations. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2024, 02:26:58 PM
Good stuff. Thanks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2024, 04:38:04 PM
Yup, not sure if y'all remember, but red LEDs were by far the most common for indicator lights on electronics panels, for household calculators, and the original digital wristwatches.

I'd heard that story about the blue LED saga but it's been years.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2024, 12:51:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/idr1n7E.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2024, 10:53:49 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
USS Maine Sinks, Prompting the US to Declare War on Spain (1898)
In January 1898, the USS Maine was sent to protect American interests in Cuba, where an anti-Spanish insurrection was taking place. It sank weeks later, after an onboard explosion. Fueled by the conspiracy theories of American yellow journalism, outrage over the deaths of 260 of the ship's crew members helped push the nation toward the Spanish-American War. Several investigations into the sinking have since taken place, including one that was conducted in 1998.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2024, 08:44:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ash Wednesday Fires (1983)
In 1983, extreme weather and years of severe drought combined to create one of Australia's worst fire days in a century. Within 12 hours, more than 180 fires—fanned by high winds—were burning, causing widespread destruction across the states of Victoria and South Australia. The fires killed 75 people and left thousands of others injured and homeless. They obliterated entire townships in just minutes. This series of fires was the deadliest bushfire event in Australian history
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2024, 09:01:16 AM
I was musing (again) about the shotgun formation.  It would be neat to see a chart of time versus plays out of it.  What is it today in P5CFB, 75%?  85%?  It seems odd, now, to see a QB under center (he's not really "under" of course).  What was it 20 years ago?  Perhaps 50%?

On a standard play, what are the disadvantages of SG formation?  The snap is more prone to error I suppose.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2024, 10:48:13 AM
is the pistol the best of both worlds?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 09:12:58 AM
In 1894, Russian scientist Marie Mikhaïlovna de Manacééne conducted one of the earliest experiments on extreme sleep deprivation. She found that when she deprived puppies of sleep, they all died within four or five days, despite every effort to keep them alive. The younger the puppy, the more quickly it died.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 09:14:47 AM
Bricks of Tea

Dried, compressed blocks of tea leaves have been used in Asia as a source of food, component of beverages, and form of currency for centuries. In Ancient China, tea was often mixed with binding agents—including flour, blood, and manure—to increase its durability, thus fortifying the tea brick against the physical demands of its use as currency. Siberian nomads preferred tea-brick currency over metal coins and continued to use the edible money
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Entropy on February 17, 2024, 10:05:14 AM
College football (now) history:

Of the top 100 highest pass rating seasons by QBs, here 's how many that happened pre-2000 and were at P5 schools:
Six.
.
Who are they?
95 Wuerffel @ Florida (178)
99 Hamilton @ GA Tech (175)
94 Collins @ Penn St (173)
96 Wuerffel @ Florida (170)
95 Hoying @ Ohio St (170)
98 Smith @ Oregon (170)
.
Yes, that means no P5 QB has a top-100 passer rating season before 1994, due to the modern high-volume, high-efficiency passing games of the last 20 years.
Wow.
.
For fun, I altered these few seasons to what they would look like, given "best-QB-season-ever" Joe Burrow's 527 attempts in 2019.  The comp, att, yds, TDs, and INTs (counting stats) are altered, while the rate stats (comp %, pass rating) are not.
Just taking a break from creating orders for WN.
.
95 Wuerffel:  340 comp on 527 att for 5,281 yds and 57 TDs - 16 Int (178 pass rating)
99 Hamilton:  350 comp on 527 att for 5,285 yds and 50 TDs - 19 Int (175)
94 Collins:  351 comp on 527 att for 5,347 yds and 42 TDs - 14 Int (173)
96 Wuerffel:  303 comp on 527 att for 5,303 yds and 57 TDs - 19 Int (170)
95 Hoying:  334 comp on 527 att for 5,257 yds and 49 TDs - 19 Int (170)
98 Akili Smith:  310 comp on 527 att for 5,361 yds and 49 TDs - 11 Int (170)
.
The point of this isn't to say any of these player seasons was as good as Burrow's (they weren't, his rating was 202), just that their seasons were insanely good and just as bombastic if given the pass attempts. 
Also shows how the passing game explosion has been TOTAL, when only 6 of the top 100 passer seasons happened pre-2000, and none of the top 37.
I often wonder how much of that is attributed to better/earlier coaching regarding the passing game, more pass-oriented offenses and/or rule changes...  I don't have an answer or a proposal other than I'm sure its some combination of all 3.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 10:27:20 AM
Ent must be bored as heck this morning
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Entropy on February 17, 2024, 10:30:08 AM
LOL...  Yep.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 03:35:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/V0nV97Y.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 17, 2024, 05:40:29 PM
Bricks of Tea

 In Ancient China, tea was often mixed with binding agents—including flour, blood, and manure—to increase its durability, thus fortifying the tea brick against the physical demands of its use as currency. Siberian nomads preferred tea-brick currency over metal coins and continued to use the edible money
To which the Brits would say - bloody tastes like shit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 07:59:43 PM
 tastes like bloody shit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MarqHusker on February 17, 2024, 10:11:21 PM
there's not one active NFL defensive player in the Top 110 in career INTs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 10:38:23 PM
since the retirement of Minnesota Vikings safety Harrison Smith??  with 34
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 10:39:16 PM
Home plate, Alcatraz Island.

(https://i.imgur.com/oM4MekX.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 11:13:21 PM
A squadron of Martin Bombers fly over Lake Nokomis (1932)
The Martin Bomber was the first American plane specially built to carry bombs
The planes were visiting from Langley, Virginia
Photo from the Minnesota Historical Society


(https://i.imgur.com/O2KhAah.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2024, 07:19:39 AM
Proof of Concept: Martin’s MB-1 and MB-2 | Lockheed Martin (https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news/features/history/mb-2.html)

Washington’s initial order of 50 MB-1s was cut back to just 10 by war’s end, forcing Martin to field small orders from the U.S. Post Office and Navy. As it did, engineers began work on a redesign of the MB-1, which sacrificed speed and handling for the ability to carry a heavy bomb load.
Impressed, the Army placed an order for Martin’s more powerful bomber, the MB-2, in June 1920. But critics remained skeptical of the efficacy of aerial bombing, questioning whether an aircraft could drop a bomb large enough to damage naval vessels.
To prove the concept in 1921, air power’s greatest champion, Brig. Gen. William “Billy” Mitchell, selected Martin’s MB-2 as his aircraft of choice.
Anchored off the Virginia coast, four ships, including a huge captured German battleship from World War I that was considered unsinkable, were positioned for an aerial bombardment.
Early runs easily sank the smaller ships in minutes, including a German submarine, but Mitchell offered one more display of the MB-2’s unprecedented ability. Seven MB-2s specially outfitted to carry newly developed 2,000-pound bombs, showered the massive German battleship Ostfriedland, dispatching it to the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean in just 21 minutes and 30 seconds.
In response, Major General Clarence C. Williams, the Army’s chief of ordinance, declared, “A bomb that was fired today will be heard around the world.” It was said that the U. S. Navy admirals watching the test wept after the battleship disappeared beneath the waves. A mere airplane had sunk a capital ship.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2024, 03:11:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eiTBwxF.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2024, 04:06:37 PM
everglades man made?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2024, 09:45:58 PM
Imagine that you are in a bar in the early 1900s — a glass of cold beer in your hand, a spittoon within easy spitting distance on the hardwood floor, and a racy painting of some unclothed beauty hanging on the wall.
You turn at the sound of a woman’s voice singing hymns, and in walks a mature woman in a long, black dress. Standing nearly 6 feet tall, she wields a hatchet and has fire in her spectacled eyes.
And then she starts smashing the place up until she is tackled and hauled away by police.
Starting in 1900, Carrie Nation became a household name for her fanatical (she agreed with that word) opposition to alcohol. The 55-year-old Kansan spent much of early 1902 crusading in Nebraska.
Read "Saloon-Smashing Carrie Nation in Nebraska": https://brnw.ch/21wH5wl (https://brnw.ch/21wH5wl)
📝: David L. Bristow
📷: History Nebraska


(https://i.imgur.com/Vk55eOu.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2024, 10:04:42 PM
Schwerer Gustav or Hitler’s giant gun was a fearsome weapon of war.

A distinctive feature of artillery of the Second World War were cannons of every increasing size and caliber. One other such weapon was the 914 mm Little David, constructed for the American army. It was intended to be used for attacking Japanese bunkers at the end of WWII. This mortar was the biggest in the world, but it was also never used in combat. The Japanese surrendered before its deployment.

Schwerer Gustav was conceived prior to the beginning of WWII when Hitler demanded its construction as a precursor to the invasion of France. It was to aid the German Army in penetrating the Maginot Line. Its construction missed the invasion of France but it did take part in some actions throughout the war. After years of development and construction, the weapon’s impact on the war was very small in the greater scheme of things. As impressive as the weapon was its fate was far from honorable.


(https://i.imgur.com/MzHnYxI.jpg)

Schwerer Gustav shell was 800 mm or 80 cm in diameter. This baby was a railway gun developed by the Krupp family company who also developed the Big Bertha cannons in WWI.

It was designed in the 1930’s in order to destroy the strongest defensive facilities of their time – the Maginot Line in France. This defensive line was built by the French along the frontier with Germany and consisted of different obstacles, concrete bunkers and fortifications, and weapons installations. The desired specification was that the cannons should be able to destroy 1-meter thick layers of steel or 7-meter thick walls of reinforced concrete. Fate changed its plans when the war began. The Wehrmacht invaded France by passing through Belgium, thus circumventing the Maginot Line and conquering France without the necessity of destroying the defensive line.

According to Wikipedia, Schwerer Gustav weighed in at around 1350 tonnes and was capable of firing 4.8 metric ton heavy projectiles at a distance of 47 km with a muzzle velocity of 820 m/s. Schwerer Gustav damage was incredible! Although not used to fulfill their initial purpose, the Gustav super cannons were transported to the Eastern front and participated in the Fall Barbarossa (Operation Barbarossa in German). During this operation, the cannon was used for the siege of Sevastopol. After that, it was transported near Leningrad (now Saint Petersburg) and started preparation for the siege, but the operation was canceled. The gun was sadly later destroyed in order to avoid its capture.


https://ninhbinh247.com/bich/schwerer-gustav-largest-gun-mankind-has-ever-built/ (https://ninhbinh247.com/bich/schwerer-gustav-largest-gun-mankind-has-ever-built/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2024, 09:25:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Battle of Iwo Jima Begins (1945)
The island of Iwo Jima is only 8 sq mi (21 sq km) in area, but when US forces attacked the Japanese air base there during WWII, it became the site of one of the most severe campaigns of the war. More than 21,000 Japanese troops and nearly 7,000 Americans died in the clashes. A photograph of US marines raising the American flag over Iwo Jima's Mt. Suribachi has since become one of the most famous images of the war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2024, 09:25:28 AM
The Gleiwitz Incident

In 1939, Nazi forces staged an attack on a German radio station and planted the bullet-riddled body of a Polish sympathizer at the scene, reporting the attack as the work of Polish saboteurs. The attack was part of a Nazi propaganda campaign called Operation Himmler, which involved a series of staged incidents intended to create the appearance of Polish aggression against Germany and provide a basis for the subsequent invasion of Poland.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2024, 09:29:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PtRlMrG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2024, 09:30:44 AM
Geebus

the first Walmart????
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2024, 09:34:49 AM
Title said 1970s, and Walmart didn't do food back then.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2024, 12:16:40 PM
Starting in 1900, Carrie Nation became a household name for her fanatical (she agreed with that word) opposition to alcohol. The 55-year-old Kansan spent much of early 1902 crusading in Nebraska.
B*tch!!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2024, 12:18:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/PtRlMrG.png)
FF gonna put it in the Hotties Thread
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on February 19, 2024, 12:29:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/PtRlMrG.png)
Guessing the mid 1960s.  You didn't see many men in the grocery stores back then so they probably thought they could get away with it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2024, 05:29:30 PM
I don't remember seeing any women in grocery stores in the 60s sporting curlers. 

All wore proper kerchief on their head to cover the curlers. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 19, 2024, 05:36:50 PM
I don't recall seeing anyone in the grocery stores in the 60s. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 19, 2024, 05:42:47 PM
I don't recall seeing anyone in the grocery stores in the 60s.

Same here.  But I did love to ride on the shelf below the basket of the shopping cart, in the 70s.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2024, 10:35:31 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ghHrTBi.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 20, 2024, 10:44:00 AM
[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/ghHrTBi.png[/img]
The Jug!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 20, 2024, 10:44:13 AM
Same here.  But I did love to ride on the shelf below the basket of the shopping cart, in the 70s.
Same!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2024, 10:56:33 AM
The Jug!
Beat me to it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2024, 11:05:41 AM
[img width=274.375 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/ghHrTBi.png[/img][/size][/color]
I was surprised when i had read how much bigger the Mustang was than the Spitfire. The wings alone could hold fuel tanks along with the drop tanks. This explains why in late '43 the 51s could start accomanying the bombing runs into the Reich.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2024, 11:14:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/RIr62jF.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2024, 11:17:49 AM
Wow too bad John couldn't have kept the weight off but that did have a charm all it's own for his character portrayals. Plains,Trains and Automobiles,Uncle Buck,Stripes - great stuff
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on February 20, 2024, 03:29:08 PM
Wow too bad John couldn't have kept the weight off but that did have a charm all it's own for his character portrayals. Plains,Trains and Automobiles,Uncle Buck,Stripes - great stuff
John Candy's death was kinda weird as I remember it.  It seems like it was about 1994, and although his popularity was maybe on the wane, it seemed like it didn't hardly even make the news.  Nowadays it would be all over the news, reported on constantly, speculated ( Matthew Perry comes to mind).  

With John it was about 3 minutes into the evening newscast, John Candy dies at age 45, our next story is about a new computer feature you may use next decade called "Email".  

I heard he died of a heart attack, but it always seemed a little fishy.  

Same thing with Jim Henson.  Rumored he died of aids/aids related (Jim Henson that is, not JC).  
Still love his movies, hate that he died so young and still in his prime.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2024, 04:06:39 PM
If you want to get down, down on the ground.. cocaine.

And I do not like Eric Clapton at all. Just so we're clear.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2024, 06:05:58 PM
John Candy's death was kinda weird as I remember it.  It seems like it was about 1994, and although his popularity was maybe on the wane, it seemed like it didn't hardly even make the news.  Nowadays it would be all over the news, reported on constantly, speculated ( Matthew Perry comes to mind). 

With John it was about 3 minutes into the evening newscast, John Candy dies at age 45, our next story is about a new computer feature you may use next decade called "Email". 

I heard he died of a heart attack, but it always seemed a little fishy. 
To some extent I feel like it's one of those "we saw that coming" sort of things. I doubt I was as involved in 1994 as I was 16 so I had other things going on, but Chris Farley would be a closer example to one that I paid a lot more attention to. When he died it was a "yeah, saw that coming" sort of thing. I'm sure for the older generation, John Belushi might have been similar. 

I do suspect that a lot of comedians have serious demons. The "funny" is a defense mechanism for the real problems and they're just masking it. 

Honestly, when I heard Robin Williams committed suicide... I wasn't that surprised. I think his entire career arc, and the personal stuff (reportedly a lot of drugs) IMHO were masking something much deeper. Although there was some speculation that perhaps there was something health-related involved (i.e. a chronic disease and he offed himself to escape what his near future would look like). 

The non-comedy one that hit me REALLY hard was Anthony Bourdain. But again, you know that there were some deep-seated demons there too. I'm still not over it.

For both, it wasn't necessarily that they did it, but that they did it at a point later in life where it seemed like they had moved past the phase that you think it would have happened and on to other things. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2024, 09:38:23 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Barber of Seville's Disastrous Debut (1816)
In 1816, Italian composer Gioacchino Rossini produced The Barber of Seville, based on the comedy by French playwright Pierre Beaumarchais. Though Rossini created much of the opera's music in just weeks, it resounds with his brilliant arias, ensemble numbers, and famous crescendos. Still, several on-stage accidents and constant jeers from the audience, likely spurred by supporters of one of Rossini's rivals, made its debut in Rome a disaster.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2024, 10:57:32 PM
John Candy's death was kinda weird as I remember it.. 

I heard he died of a heart attack, but it always seemed a little fishy.
I don't, he had been over weight for quite some time and still smoked and  of course drank.Think it was the Rolling Stone did a big article on him they had mentioned his dad died young also.But he was successful in business bought one of the CFL teams with Wayne Gretzky and they won the CFL Championships.  I was fan and use to watch Second City TV in the early '80s. He did a segment "Dining with LaRue" a smart ass Food Critic who tried to talk his way into restuarants for Dinner. That was pretty good,talked his way into a nice place and there was always salty exchanges between him and the help.Then he got small gigs then STRIPES I think was the 1st big break.

https://youtu.be/rtayB-vIyfY

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2024, 08:38:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

German Socialist Kurt Eisner Is Assassinated (1919)
Eisner was a German journalist and politician. From 1898, he was editor of Vorwärts, the official Social Democratic Party newspaper. He joined the Independent Social Democratic Party in 1917, later becoming its leader. In November 1918, he organized a Socialist revolution that overthrew the monarchy in Bavaria, and he became the first prime minister and minister of foreign affairs of the new Bavarian republic. In February 1919
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2024, 09:14:17 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bNBd2ga.png)

Terrora Power Plant photo. Probably right after it was finished in 1925. The photo I have seen which has the sign "Terrora Development Georgia Railway & Power Co". Notice the difference between the new masonry & steel power plant and the wooded shed on the hill. See the pipes coming in behind the plant that carries water 1 mile through the mountain from Lake Rabun Dam to run the generators.


Badge will be pleased to note there is a move afoot to remove said dam which would restore Tallulah Falls to its roaring former granduer.  I doubt that happens though, lake front property being what it is.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2024, 10:39:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/5xy6MmJ.png)

USS California (BB-44), affectionately called the "Prune Barge" was the second Tennessee class Super Dreadnought built for the US Navy. She was the last battleship and only Dreadnought built on the West Coast of United States, fittingly, at Mare Island Naval Shipyard in California.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 22, 2024, 08:32:46 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

The "Miracle on Ice" (1980)
Voted the greatest sports moment of the 20th century by Sports Illustrated magazine, the unlikely victory of the US men's hockey team over its Soviet counterpart during the 1980 Olympic Winter Games has been called the "Miracle on Ice." The Soviet team was considered the world's best international hockey team, while the US team was made up of amateur and collegiate players.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 22, 2024, 08:41:34 AM
Anarchist Catalonia

Anarchism, a political theory that favors the abolition of all forms of government, started a profound libertarian revolution throughout Spain. During the Spanish Civil War of the 1930s, Catalonia was established as an anarchist stronghold and much of the region's economy was put under worker control: factories were run through worker committees, agrarian areas became collectivized, and even hotels and restaurants were managed by their workers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 22, 2024, 08:44:00 AM
[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/5xy6MmJ.png[/img]
USS California (BB-44), affectionately called the "Prune Barge" was the second Tennessee class Super Dreadnought built for the US Navy. She was the last battleship and only Dreadnought built on the West Coast of United States, fittingly, at Mare Island Naval Shipyard in California.
There was a guy in my hometown who was on this ship on the morning of December 7, 1941. He is the only Pearl Harbor survivor I ever knew personally.

He joined the Navy at 17 in 1941 and had only recently been sent to join the crew of the "Prune Barge" when it was sunk. He spoke to a service club I am in about the experience. After the sinking he swam through oil-covered water to Ford Island.

Next he was assigned to a Cruiser which was sunk at Coral Sea so in the first six months of the war he was sunk twice.

Postwar he ran a stone business in town for many decades. Funniest thing about him was that even as an 80ish year old, grandpa-looking guy he sounded like he was still in the Navy. I'm pretty sure the expression "swore like a sailor" was coined to describe him.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2024, 08:45:53 AM
The Battle of the Coral Sea - ANZAC Day Commemoration Committee (https://anzacday.org.au/ww2-the-battle-of-the-coral-sea)

The US didn't lose any cruisers at Coral Sea, he may have been talking about Guadalcanal, where we lost five in one night.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 22, 2024, 08:54:58 AM
The Battle of the Coral Sea - ANZAC Day Commemoration Committee (https://anzacday.org.au/ww2-the-battle-of-the-coral-sea)

The US didn't lose any cruisers at Coral Sea, he may have been talking about Guadalcanal, where we lost five in one night.
Sorry, you are right.

I knew it was in the South Pacific. 

At one point I found an article about it. Apparently a fairly substantial group of former USS California crewmen had all been assigned en-mass to this Cruiser so he was far from the only one. I wish I could remember the name of the Cruiser. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2024, 08:56:13 AM
Guadalcanal: Naval Battles (navy.mil) (https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/museums/nmusn/explore/photography/wwii/wwii-pacific/wwii-pacific-guadalancanal/naval-battles.html)

This lists 7 major battles, with heavy losses, mostly by the US earlier on.  The Japanese were expert at night fighting and had superior optics.  The US largely threw away their advantage in radar, not understanding how it could help.

In the early morning of August 9, 1942, the Battle of Savo Island began.  A Japanese force had run through the Allied forces guarding Savo Sound.  As a result, one Australian heavy cruiser HMAS Canberra, and three American heavy cruisers, USS Quincy, USS Vincennes, and USS Astoria were sunk, along with damage to other Allied vessels.  As a result of the loss, the sound gained the nickname, "Iron Bottom Sound."  A day later, USS S-44 torpedoed and sank the Japanese cruiser Kako off Kavieng, New Ireland, as she was retiring from the battle.  The Japanese forces were commanded by Vice Admiral Gunichi Mikawa, and the Allied forces were commanded by Rear Admiral Victor Crutchley, RN, and Rear Admiral Richmond K. Turner, USN.   

Image:   NH 50346 (https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/NH-50000/NH-50346.html):   Battle of Savo Island, August 9, 1942:  USS Quincy (CA-39), photographed from Japanese cruiser during the battle.   U.S. Naval History and Heritage Command.   

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2024, 11:20:28 AM
Next he was assigned to a Cruiser which was sunk at Coral Sea so in the first six months of the war he was sunk twice.
Cindy's father - who I never knew was sunk twice in the N.Atlantic while serving in the Merchant Marine

Guadalcanal was brutal 7 months,sea,air,land - hats off to all of them
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2024, 01:26:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ArdMCqD.png)

A Neolithic house in Skara Brae, Orkney Island, Scotland.
The village consisted of ten clustered houses, made of flagstones in earthen dams that provided support for the walls. The houses had stone hearths, beds, and cupboards. A primitive sewer system, with "toilets" and drains in each house, ended up in the ocean. Water was used to flush waste into a drain.
The site was occupied from roughly 3180 BC to about 2500 BC and is Europe's most complete Neolithic village. On average, each house measures 40 square metres and it seems likely that no more than 50 people lived in Skara Brae at any given time.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 22, 2024, 02:24:15 PM
Cindy's father - who I never knew was sunk twice in the N.Atlantic while serving in the Merchant Marine

Guadalcanal was brutal 7 months,sea,air,land - hats off to all of them
Agreed.  

The oddest thing about it all is that through it all, the Japanese kept clinging to their "Decisive Battle" doctrine and waiting for the decisive naval battle which they thought would have to come eventually.  What they failed to realize was that the Guadalcanal campaign WAS the decisive battle.  Midway was important in that it SEVERELY curtailed the offensive punch of the IJN, but the decisive battle was Guadalcanal which turned into war by attrition which Japan couldn't hope to win against an enemy with 2x their population and 10x their industrial capacity.  The US simply bled the Japanese dry.  

After Pearl Harbor and the naval battles of 1942 there was something of a lull at least in terms of major fleet-vs-fleet naval battles and there wasn't another one until the Battle of the Philippine Sea in June of 1944.  In the battles of 1942 the IJN had been a worth adversary to the USN but by 1944 they were laughably outclassed.  They had lost many trained pilots and while the USN fliers took to the sky in brand new planes built AFTER the lessons of 1942, the IJN fliers took to the sky in the same planes they had started the war with 2-1/2 years earlier.  The battle was so lopsided that it has ever since been known as the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2024, 06:51:21 AM
Agreed. 

The oddest thing about it all is that through it all, the Japanese kept clinging to their "Decisive Battle" doctrine and waiting for the decisive naval battle which they thought would have to come eventually.  What they failed to realize was that the Guadalcanal campaign WAS the decisive battle.  Midway was important in that it SEVERELY curtailed the offensive punch of the IJN, but the decisive battle was Guadalcanal which turned into war by attrition which Japan couldn't hope to win against an enemy with 2x their population and 10x their industrial capacity.  The US simply bled the Japanese dry. 

After Pearl Harbor and the naval battles of 1942 there was something of a lull at least in terms of major fleet-vs-fleet naval battles and there wasn't another one until the Battle of the Philippine Sea in June of 1944.  In the battles of 1942 the IJN had been a worth adversary to the USN but by 1944 they were laughably outclassed.  They had lost many trained pilots
Of the IJN forces lost at Midway the air crews/pilots was catastrophic. Evidently they did not have an efficient system of training those crews enmasse specially after such a large shocking loss. Their superiority thinking at least among the top yes man didn't think it possible and therefor didn't plan on it - save Yamamoto. Their brass in fact hid that defeat from the public and even much of the military.For moral and ego reasons,but that didn't keep the rank and file from talking as later was discovered and discussed in personal notes/journals.They weren't buying the Bushido Code bullshit the Emporer's lackey's were selling as they were there and saw in person what Nimitz's Navy had in store
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2024, 07:38:55 AM
Japan had a major problem with getting fuel.  They couldn't train pilots in part because they had to send what fuel they had to the ships and carriers and China.  The war really started because of petroleum.

Several times, Japanese ships would sortee using unrefined petroleum which is a disaster in the making if they take damage.  Their main objective was the oil fields in SE Asia, but these turned out to be not as productive as they had hoped, and they couldn't refine the oil on site and had to ship it to Japan.  This is why they needed the Phillipines, and why they attacked Pearl Harbor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2024, 03:48:06 PM
Micajah Clark Dyer - Georgia's 1874 Pioneer Aviator (https://micajahclarkdyer.blogspot.com/?fbclid=IwAR2zxd5V114HMxJdN1gljiDE3EgFmS__spfboRXzFrGJkf4HU6KrjTcV_vE)

Micajah Clark Dyer (1822-1891) was a pioneer aviator. He invented a flying machine for which he received Patent No. 154,654 on Sept. 1, 1874, titled “Apparatus for Navigating the Air.” It was placed in Class 244 for Aeronautics and Astronautics, and in Subclass 28 for Airships with Beating Wings Sustained. At that time, designs for manned flight were just beginning to make the transition from balloons and gliders to powered, heavier-than-air craft. His design is a very early example representing that transition. Clark, as he was called, married the buoyant power of a balloon with navigational controls for flight.
Blairsville, Union County, Georgia, where the invention and flights took place, and its surrounding counties didn’t have newspapers at that time, but the story of Clark’s invention was reported in dozens of newspapers in other towns across the U.S., perhaps also in foreign countries since efforts were underway all over the world at the time to build a machine that could fly.
Several neighbors, including Johnny Wimpey, Jim Lance and Herschel Dyer, witnessed Clark’s flights off Rattlesnake Mountain in the Choestoe Community of Union County in years about 1875 to 1885. He is buried in the Old Choestoe Baptist Church Cemetery, Blairsville, Ga.
A website, [color=var(--outline-link-color-default)]https://micajahclarkdyer.blogspot.com/ (https://micajahclarkdyer.blogspot.com/)[/iurl], has been maintained since 2004 to acquaint people with Clark’s accomplishments.[/font][/size][/color]


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2024, 03:50:07 PM
US154654.pdf (storage.googleapis.com) (https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/50/95/4e/9c4901cc1c7a93/US154654.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0otBQdWGOpLnYaFyStnQltG10O0t4LUzq1Hl-vZcX7aau0uaRCSBrwx3Q)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2024, 04:15:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Do8OdFg.png)

Real Mexican cuisine circa 1970.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2024, 11:05:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Los Angeles (1942)
The "Battle of Los Angeles" is the name given by contemporary sources to the imaginary enemy attack and subsequent anti-aircraft artillery barrage that took place over Los Angeles, California, just months after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Reports of an imminent strike on the city led to the sounding of air raid sirens, the imposition of a blackout, and the firing of 1,400 shells at supposed Japanese aircraft, killing several US civilians.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2024, 11:47:58 AM
I loved that movie.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2024, 11:51:45 AM
me too

"look, a baby wolf"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2024, 08:17:04 AM
Sears catalog distribution center/retail store on Ponce De Leon Avenue in Atlanta in 1979
The beginnings of Sears:
Richard Warren Sears was born in 1863 in Stewartville, Minnesota, to a wealthy family which moved to nearby Spring Valley. In 1879, his father died shortly after losing the family fortune in a speculative stock deal. Sears moved across the state to work as a railroad station agent in North Redwood, then Minneapolis.
While he was in North Redwood, a jeweler refused delivery on a shipment of watches. Sears purchased them and sold them at a low price to the station agents, making a profit. He started a mail-order watch business in Minneapolis in 1886, calling it the R.W. Sears Watch Company. That year, he met Alvah Curtis Roebuck, a watch repairman. In 1887, Sears and Roebuck relocated the business to Chicago, and the company published Richard Sears's first mail-order catalog, offering watches, diamonds, and jewelry.
In 1889, Sears sold his business for $100,000 and relocated to Iowa, planning to be a rural banker. He returned to Chicago in 1892 and established a new mail-order firm, again selling watches and jewelry, with Roebuck as his partner, operating as the A. C. Roebuck watch company. On September 16, 1893, they renamed the company Sears, Roebuck, and Co. and began to diversify the product lines offered in their catalogs.
Before the Sears catalog, farmers near small rural towns usually purchased supplies, often at high prices and on credit, from local general stores with narrow selections of goods. Prices were negotiated and relied on the storekeeper's estimate of a customer's creditworthiness. Sears built an opposite business model by offering in their catalogs a larger selection of products at published prices.
By 1894, the Sears catalog had grown to 322 pages, including many new items, such as sewing machines, bicycles, sporting goods and automobiles. By 1895, the company was producing a 532-page catalog. Sales were over $400,000 in 1893 and over $750,000 two years later. By 1896, dolls, stoves, and groceries were added to the catalog.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2024, 08:18:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/IuOadgZ.png)+

That building today is the hugely popular "Ponce City Market" after years of neglect.

(https://i.imgur.com/afr8ysY.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2024, 11:09:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/8WAv3oP.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2024, 04:31:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/3daVrwK.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2024, 06:21:04 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
First Pan American Games Are Held in Buenos Aires, Argentina (1951)
The Pan American Games is a multi-sport event open to competitors from all nations of the Western Hemisphere. Patterned after the Olympic Games and sanctioned by the International Olympic Committee, the games are held every four years in the year preceding the Summer Olympic Games. Argentina took home more medals than any other country in the first Pan American Games, however, the US has since become the overall medal leader, with a current total of 3,915.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2024, 08:25:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The February 26 Incident (1936)
The February 26 Incident was an attempted military coup in Japan launched by a radical faction of the Imperial Japanese Army that sought to stamp out corruption and poverty in rural Japan by assassinating certain elder statesmen. Before the coup was suppressed, the rebels managed to briefly occupy the center of Tokyo and kill several leading politicians, including the finance minister. The prime minister, however, survived thanks to a case of mistaken identity.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2024, 07:14:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Carbon-14 Discovered (1940)
Carbon-14 is a radioactive isotope of carbon having a mass number of 14 and a half-life of approximately 5,700 years. It occurs naturally, arising from cosmic rays, and is used as a tracer in studies of metabolism and in radiocarbon dating—a method of determining the age of carbonaceous, once-living material. Carbon-14 was discovered by Martin Kamen and Sam Ruben at the University of California Radiation Laboratory, but its existence had been predicted six years earlier
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 07:49:44 AM
I'm surprised it was that late.  When was mass spec discovered?

In 1886, Eugen Goldstein (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugen_Goldstein) observed rays in gas discharges (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_discharge) under low pressure that traveled away from the anode (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anode) and through channels in a perforated cathode (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode), opposite to the direction of negatively charged cathode rays (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode_rays) (which travel from cathode to anode). Goldstein called these positively charged anode rays (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anode_rays) "Kanalstrahlen"; the standard translation of this term into English is "canal rays (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_rays)". Wilhelm Wien (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Wien) found that strong electric or magnetic fields deflected the canal rays and, in 1899, constructed a device with perpendicular electric and magnetic fields that separated the positive rays according to their charge-to-mass ratio (Q/m). Wien found that the charge-to-mass ratio depended on the nature of the gas in the discharge tube. English scientist J. J. Thomson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._J._Thomson) later improved on the work of Wien by reducing the pressure to create the mass spectrograph.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/Alpha_calutron_tank.jpg/170px-Alpha_calutron_tank.jpg) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alpha_calutron_tank.jpg)Calutron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calutron) mass spectrometers were used in the Manhattan Project (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project) for uranium enrichment.
The word spectrograph had become part of the international scientific vocabulary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_scientific_vocabulary) by 1884.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-2)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-3) Early spectrometry devices that measured the mass-to-charge ratio of ions were called mass spectrographs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrograph) which consisted of instruments that recorded a spectrum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum) of mass values on a photographic plate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_plate).[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-a804629h-4)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-5) A mass spectroscope is similar to a mass spectrograph except that the beam of ions is directed onto a phosphor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphor) screen.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-6) A mass spectroscope configuration was used in early instruments when it was desired that the effects of adjustments be quickly observed. Once the instrument was properly adjusted, a photographic plate was inserted and exposed. The term mass spectroscope continued to be used even though the direct illumination of a phosphor screen was replaced by indirect measurements with an oscilloscope (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscilloscope).[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-Siri_1947-7) The use of the term mass spectroscopy is now discouraged due to the possibility of confusion with light spectroscopy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectroscopy).[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-isbn0-9660813-2-3-1)[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-Price_1991-8) Mass spectrometry is often abbreviated as mass-spec or simply as MS.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-isbn0-9660813-2-3-1)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 07:55:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/IsNDo08.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 07:58:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nBXbIEb.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2024, 09:31:35 AM
On a small farm just outside of LeClaire, Iowa near the Mississippi River, William F. "Buffalo Bill" Cody was born to Isaac and Mary Ann Bonsell Laycock.  Buffalo Bill grew up to become one of the most recognized names in the world due to his Wild West show.

(https://i.imgur.com/pq9J4vo.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 01:12:32 PM
On This Day - February 26, 1949 – Boeing B-50A Superfortress, Air Force serial number 46-010, named Lucky Lady II, flew from Carswell Air Force Base, Fort Worth, Texas, and with inflight refueling, circumnavigated the Earth non-stop, landing back at Carswell after 94 hours, 1 minute. The bomber had traveled 23,452 miles (37,742 kilometers).
Lucky Lady II was the backup aircraft for this flight, but became primary when the first B-50, Global Queen, had to abort with engine problems. It was a standard production B-50A-5-BO (originally designated B-29D) with the exception of an additional fuel tank mounted in its bomb bay.
The aircraft commander was Captain James G. Gallagher, with 1st Lieutenant Arthur M. Neal as second pilot. Captain James H. Morris was the copilot. In addition to the three pilots, the flight was double-crewed, with each man being relieved at 4-to-6 hour intervals, with a total crew of 14.
Four inflight refuelings were required using the looped hose method. Two KB-29M tankers of the 43d Air Refueling Squadron were placed at air bases along the Lucky Lady II‘s route, at the Azores, Saudi Arabia, the Philippine Islands and Hawaiian Islands. The KB-29 flew above the B-50 and lowered a cable and drogue. This was captured by equipment on the bomber and then reeled in, bringing along with it a refueling hose. The hose was attached to the B-50’s refueling manifold and then fuel was transferred from the tanker to the bomber’s tanks by gravity flow. Each refueling occurred during daylight, but weather made several transfers difficult. One of the two tankers from Clark Field in The Philippines, 45-21705, crashed in bad weather when returning to base, killing the entire 9-man crew.
On their arrival at Carswell on 2 March (Photo), the crew of Lucky Lady II was met by Secretary of the Air Force W. Stuart Symington, Jr., General Hoyt S. Vandenberg, Chief of Staff of the Air Force, General Roger M. Ramey, commanding 8th Air Force, and Lieutenant General Curtis E. LeMay, Strategic Air Command. Each member of the crew was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. They also were awarded the Mackay Trophy for the most meritorious flight of the year.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 01:43:13 PM
"Movies And The Real Old West"
The fast draw did not exist
Revolvers were not worn low slung
Revolvers were generally not fired from the hip
Fanning a revolver was unheard of
The buscadero holster wasn’t designed until the 1920s
Gunslinger and gunfighter are movie terms
Face downs in the street only happened a couple times
More men were killed with knives in barrooms than by firearms
Most cowboys on the range did not carry revolvers, most carried
rifles in saddle boots
Indians preferred to fight at night
Cavalry troopers did not wear yellow bandanas
There was no such military command as Forward Ho!
Most women wore dresses not jeans and rode horses side saddle
Chaps were only worn when herding cattle
There was no such title as Town Sheriff, Sherriff’s enforced laws in the entire county, towns were policed by Marshals
Indians did not attack a wagon train circle by riding in circles around it
Most western forts did not have walls
Army chevron’s were not worn on shirts
One piece red long underwear did not exist until after 1900
Mexican Bandidos did not wear bandoleers
String bowties are 20th century
Panel front shirts were not worn with one top corner unbuttoned and hanging down
Stage coaches did not carry a strongbox full of gold on every run, most holdups were made to rob the passengers
Most men did not carry revolvers all day, every day
The Winchester lever action rifle was “The gun that won the west” not the Colt revolver


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2024, 11:50:34 PM
Indians did not attack a wagon train circle by riding in circles around it

:smiley_confused1:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 28, 2024, 07:24:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nBXbIEb.png)
The 1st thing comes to my mind when opening a beer
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 28, 2024, 07:25:10 AM
Indians did not attack a wagon train circle by riding in circles around it

:smiley_confused1:
Bazing Saddles says it happened
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 28, 2024, 07:29:34 AM
"Movies And The Real Old West"
The fast draw did not exist
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/wild-bill-hickok-fights-first-western-showdown
In what may be the first true western showdown, Wild Bill Hickok shoots Dave Tutt dead in the market square of Springfield, Missouri.

Hollywood movies and dime novels notwithstanding, the classic western showdown—also called a walkdown—happened only rarely in the American West. Rather than coolly confronting each other on a dusty street in a deadly game of quick draw, most men began shooting at each other in drunken brawls or spontaneous arguments. Ambushes and cowardly attacks were far more common than noble showdowns.

But when gunfights did occur, the cause for each varied. Some were simply the result of the heat of the moment, while others were longstanding feuds, or between bandits and lawmen.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 07:34:06 AM
Anyone who has fired a handgun at a target nows how hard it is to hit a human sized target at any distance, forget about a fast draw.  One can certainly improve over time, holding the pistol with two hands properly and bracing one's legs.  Anyone drawing fast is more likely to spray bullets in the general direction and hit something other than the target versus someone cool who aims properly and fires once, depending on range.

I think the movie imagery does something to keep murders down in urban areas because the shooters spray and pray, and end up wounding innocents more often than targets.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 28, 2024, 07:43:41 AM
Not stating it's not hard - it happened though,hardly the chivalrous affair portrayed
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2024, 08:25:11 AM
I imagine it evolved from gentlemanly duels and was better to be accurate than quick
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2024, 08:25:29 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Swedish Prime Minister Olof Palme Is Assassinated (1986)
Palme served as prime minister of Sweden from 1969 to 1976 and from 1982 to 1986. In 1971, he led Sweden's rejection of a bid for membership in the European Community. A pacifist, he criticized US policy in the Vietnam War, creating a diplomatic rift that ended in 1974. Palme also opposed the nuclear arms race and South African apartheid. He was assassinated in 1986, and his murder remains unsolved. What did US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger reportedly say about his relationship with Palme?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 08:07:17 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/FMv91mw.png)

Weird seeing those electric buses back then, and now they are expanding the streetcar line, which has been a complete bust so far.  These urban planners seem to fall in love with things that are not really practicable.  Now, maybe the streetcar thing takes off, I don't know that, the new terminus is much more of a destination than the old one at least.

And heavy rail is just too expensive to build any more.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 08:20:07 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/wKyTfSI.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 09:41:31 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/z6Y4y5i.png)

Latest Z06 engine.

(https://i.imgur.com/aEX7ocx.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 29, 2024, 09:57:31 AM
[img width=274.381 height=389]https://i.imgur.com/z6Y4y5i.png[/img]

Latest Z06 engine.

[img width=274.381 height=281]https://i.imgur.com/aEX7ocx.png[/img]
The evolution if Corvette engines from the pathetic Blue Flame Special Straight Six of 1953 to that monstrosity of today.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 10:11:18 AM
Zora Duntov.

Zora Arkus-Duntov - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov)

Arkus-Duntov joined General Motors (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors) in 1953 after seeing the Motorama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorama) Corvette (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette) on display in New York City (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City). He found the car visually superb, but was disappointed with what was underneath. He wrote Chevrolet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet) chief engineer Ed Cole (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Cole) that it would be a pleasure to work on such a beautiful car; he also included a technical paper which proposed an analytical method of determining a car's top speed. Chevrolet was so impressed, engineer Maurice Olley (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maurice_Olley&action=edit&redlink=1) invited him to come to Detroit. On May 1, 1953, Arkus-Duntov started at Chevrolet as an assistant staff engineer.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-duntovbook-1)

Shortly after going to work for Chevrolet, Arkus-Duntov set the tone for what he was about to accomplish in a memo to his bosses. The document, "Thoughts Pertaining to Youth, Hot Rodders and Chevrolet", laid out Duntov's views on overcoming Ford's lead in use by customizers and racers, and how to increase both the acceptance and the likelihood of success of the Chevrolet V8 in this market.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-memo-7) In 1957 Arkus-Duntov became Director of High Performance Vehicles at Chevrolet.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-gmheritage-8) After helping to introduce the small-block V8 engine to the Corvette in 1955, providing the car with much-needed power, he set about showcasing the engine by ascending Pike's Peak in 1956 in a pre-production car (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-production_car) (a 1956 Bel Air (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Bel_Air) 4-door hardtop), setting a stock car record. He took a Corvette to Daytona Beach the same year and hit a record-setting 150 mph (240 km/h) over the flying mile.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] He also developed the famous Duntov high-lift camshaft and helped bring fuel injection to the Corvette in 1957.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-duntovbook-1) He is credited with introducing the first mass-produced American car with four-wheel disc brakes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake).[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-nytobit-9)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/1963_Corvette_Sting_Ray_Coupe.jpg/220px-1963_Corvette_Sting_Ray_Coupe.jpg) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1963_Corvette_Sting_Ray_Coupe.jpg)1963 Split-window Corvette.

A conflict arose between Duntov and Chevrolet chief designer Bill Mitchell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Mitchell_(automobile_designer)) over the design of the new C2 Corvette "Sting Ray" model.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-ludvigsenbook-4): 360, 361  Mitchell designed the car with a long hood and a raised windsplit that ran the length of the roof and continued down the back on a pillar that bisected the rear window into right and left halves. Duntov felt that the elongated hood interfered with the driver's view of the road ahead, and the rear pillar obscured the driver's view rearwards. The split rear window was widely criticized, and a one-piece backlite was put in its place the next year.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-ludvigsenbook-4): 384, 385 


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 29, 2024, 10:38:42 AM
He also developed the famous Duntov high-lift camshaft and helped bring fuel injection to the Corvette in 1957.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-duntovbook-1) He is credited with introducing the first mass-produced American car with four-wheel disc brakes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake).[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-nytobit-9)
I talked with a guy who owned one. The story was that it was AMAZING . . .

When it worked.

The backstory is that fuel injection had been around for decades and by WWII it was common in military aircraft. Fuel injection was vital for military aircraft because carburetors tend not to work upside down or under certain g-force conditions related to maneuvers such as climbing or diving rapidly.

Getting it from high performance aircraft with dedicated mechanics spending whatever time it took to keep it functional into a car for everyday use was a substantial challenge.

Apart from the maintenance issues, car engines are a LOT smaller. The early Chevy V8's were 265 Cid (Cubic Inches Displacement) or 4.34L. By comparison the Double Wasp that powered the Corsair and Hellcat was 2,800 Cid or 46L and the Merlin that powered the Spitfire and Mustang was 1,650 Cid or 27L.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 10:45:01 AM
It was also of course mechanical fuel injection which got complex in a hurry.  I can't imagine working on one of those Double Wasp type engines, and they did fail in flight fairly often, more often than would be tolerated in any civilian application.

"My" Cessna 152 (or 172) had an over sized 4 cylinced "boxer" engine with magnetos and carb heat and manual fuel air ratio and a primer for starting.  I chuckle about that now.  When they started making new Cessnas, they went to fuel injection, but had to detune the engine as a result as anything with 200 hp or more requires additional certification for the pilots for "complex engines".

Fuel injection MAY be the single most important modern feature of current engines making them so powerful (and less polluting).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on February 29, 2024, 10:49:18 AM
I talked with a guy who owned one. The story was that it was AMAZING . . .

When it worked.

The backstory is that fuel injection had been around for decades and by WWII it was common in military aircraft. Fuel injection was vital for military aircraft because carburetors tend not to work upside down or under certain g-force conditions related to maneuvers such as climbing or diving rapidly.

Getting it from high performance aircraft with dedicated mechanics spending whatever time it took to keep it functional into a car for everyday use was a substantial challenge.

Apart from the maintenance issues, car engines are a LOT smaller. The early Chevy V8's were 265 Cid (Cubic Inches Displacement) or 4.34L. By comparison the Double Wasp that powered the Corsair and Hellcat was 2,800 Cid or 46L and the Merlin that powered the Spitfire and Mustang was 1,650 Cid or 27L.

My dad was a Staff Sargent and aircraft mechanic in the Marine 4th Air Wing in WW2.  He loved the Corsair.  One of his many interesting stories was how they routinely would dump brand new aircraft engines, among other things, into the lagoon on Peleliu since they had no need, or space, and couldn't send them back.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 29, 2024, 11:01:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/wKyTfSI.png)
Ya nolan juiced 😜
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 29, 2024, 11:25:27 AM
It was also of course mechanical fuel injection which got complex in a hurry.  I can't imagine working on one of those Double Wasp type engines, and they did fail in flight fairly often, more often than would be tolerated in any civilian application.
Agreed, those are insanely complex.  For those unaware, the Double Wasp engine that @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) is referring to here is the Pratt and Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp.  It was a twin-row, 18-cylinder radial. 

Radial means that instead of the pistons being in a single line (like an inline four common in smaller cars today) or in two lines in a "V" shape like the classic American V8's, the cylinders were arranged radially out from the center crankshaft.  

Twin-row means that there were two rows of cylinders so for this 18-cylinder engine each row had nine cylinders.  

What is truly amazing is that the US needed and managed to successfully train and deploy literally thousands of guys like @Temp430 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=131) 's dad to maintain these insanely complex engines all over the world.  

The US built a little better than 125 THOUSAND of the R-2800's and used them to power the Corsairs, Hellcats, Marauders (2x per plane), and Thunderbolts among others.   

They also built the even larger Wright R-3350 Duplex-Cyclone which was a similar twin-row, 18-cylinder radial of 3,350 Cid or nearly 55L.  
My dad was a Staff Sargent and aircraft mechanic in the Marine 4th Air Wing in WW2.  He loved the Corsair.  One of his many interesting stories was how they routinely would dump brand new aircraft engines, among other things, into the lagoon on Peleliu since they had no need, or space, and couldn't send them back.
That is awesome and thanks to him for his service.  

The story of dumping unneeded surplus engines (which cost a fortune to build)* into a lagoon really explains why the US won.  Omar Bradley said "amateurs study strategy, professionals study logistics."  

I once saw a WWII German Soldier interviewed and he stated that the point at which he realized that the Reich was finished was during the Battle of the Bulge.  Despite the location of the Battle of the Bulge being right on the German border and only a few hundred miles from the German Industrial Heartland his army was out of or running out of nearly everything.  Then, when he advanced into formerly American-held territory he saw MOUNTAINS of surplus equipment, parts, weapons, ammunition, etc just like the surplus engines chucked into a lagoon by your dad and his buddies because they had more than they needed.  The German Soldier pointed out that this was thousands of miles and an ocean away from the American Industrial heartland and yet the Americans had a seemingly limitless supply of everything they needed.  

*Just to be clear, this is not AT ALL a criticism of your dad and his buddies.  The story you shared perfectly illustrates American logistical prowess that the Axis (and for that matter the other allied) powers simply couldn't imagine let alone duplicate.  Everybody else was dealing with shortages of more-or-less everything while the biggest logistical problem your dad had was that he had too many aircraft engines to store so they had to chuck them in a lagoon to make room for stuff that they did need.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 11:44:17 AM
I've mentioned before my Dad was a staff sergeant radar operator on a B-24.  He told me the night the plane went down, the first rolled out on their regular aircraft and during runup, one of the superchargers "ran away" (I infer the waste gate stuck closed, or something).  With four engines, things happened fairly often, so they taxied back and got another aircraft.

He remembers taking off as usual and says they had gained altitude enough for him to roll down the radar antenna (which replaced the belly turret).  I sent for the official records a while back and they claim the B-24 went into the ocean just after takeoff, my Dad says that couldn't have happened, they had to have been miles out at least.  He had a tiny compartment just forward of the bombay, and he thinks when they hit the ocean, the radar dome hit first and tore the plane open and he floated out.  He said there was no way he could have gotten out otherwise.  Three survived, the copilot went through the wind screen and the flight engineer apparently went through after him.  The other seven perished.

I met the copilot many years back, he had a flattened forehead from the experience.  They floated around in the ocean however long and finally were picked up by a US destroyer.  My Dad and the copilot were badly injured, the flight engineer, a made named "Isadore Lamica", kept them afloat.  Izzy, as he was called, didn't make it home, he went down on a later flight.

Pacific Wrecks - 868th Bombardment Squadron (868th BS) "Snooper Squadron" (https://pacificwrecks.com/units/usaaf/13af/868bs.html)

Nightstalkers – The Wright Project and the 868th Bomb Squadron in World War II (nightstalkers868.com) (https://nightstalkers868.com/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 11:50:02 AM
My Dad told me the radar was fairly sophisticated.  He had a "G scope" that was slaved to the bomb released.  They'd line up over a Japanese ship (at night) trying to get it lengthwise, and when the G-scope line intercepted with the middle line, bombs would be released one two three in an interval he would set.

They carried the usual crew with gunners for reasons no one understood, they couldn't see at night of course.  Once the gunners begged the pilot to over fly some Japanese air base so they did, once.  They told him the sky lit up with so much flack it scared them to death, a lumbering B-24 at probably 500 feet altitude even at night, the Japs opened up.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 29, 2024, 08:50:49 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First African American wins Academy Award (1940)
Hattie McDaniel was an African-American singer-songwriter, comedienne, stage actress, radio performer, and television star. She appeared in over 300 films and is best known for her role as Mammy in the iconic 1939 film Gone with the Wind, a performance that earned her the first Academy Award ever presented to an African American. McDaniel's Oscar was later lost.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 09:25:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/LWaEX3u.png)

Heaviest armor of any WW 2 tank (Tiger 2), 150 mm.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 01, 2024, 11:25:05 AM
No wonder they ran out of fuel
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 01, 2024, 11:45:52 AM
Agreed, those are insanely complex.  For those unaware, the Double Wasp engine that @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) is referring to here is the Pratt and Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp.  It was a twin-row, 18-cylinder radial.


I once saw a WWII German Soldier interviewed and he stated that the point at which he realized that the Reich was finished was during the Battle of the Bulge.  Despite the location of the Battle of the Bulge being right on the German border and only a few hundred miles from the German Industrial Heartland his army was out of or running out of nearly everything.  Then, when he advanced into formerly American-held territory he saw MOUNTAINS of surplus equipment, parts, weapons, ammunition, etc just like the surplus engines chucked into a lagoon by your dad and his buddies because they had more than they needed.  The German Soldier pointed out that this was thousands of miles and an ocean away from the American Industrial heartland and yet the Americans had a seemingly limitless supply of everything they needed. 

*Just to be clear, this is not AT ALL a criticism of your dad and his buddies.  The story you shared perfectly illustrates American logistical prowess that the Axis (and for that matter the other allied) powers simply couldn't imagine let alone duplicate.  Everybody else was dealing with shortages of more-or-less everything while the biggest logistical problem your dad had was that he had too many aircraft engines to store so they had to chuck them in a lagoon to make room for stuff that they did need. 
Good post one of the reasons the P&Ws were so well liked(that I've read) was many were air cooled and could take more hits and make it back than the water cooled birds. The materiel logistics/provisons of this country in WWII were simply unbelievable.I've more than a few times crossed swords with some Brits in YT comment sections about this.They seemingly routinely play lend-lease down when in fact they didn't see a bill for half of the materiel'. I know at the end of the Pacific war many planes were pushed off of aircraft carries by the UK. They were a late arrival in that theatre and got in in long after it was only a matter of time with/with out them. Many planes were sold to the Aussies for pennies on the dollar as the cost of bringing everything back was  superseded the cost of scrap or ability to sell them for a fair exchange.Many Jeeps/trucks were brought back
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 01, 2024, 11:48:35 AM
No wonder they ran out of fuel
There is also this, global petroleum production in 1940 in millions of Metric Tons:
Country Crude Oil
USA 182.657 Mt
USSR 29.700 Mt
Venezuela 27.443 Mt
Iran 10.426 Mt
Indonesia 7.939 Mt
Mexico 6.721 Mt
Romania 5.764 Mt
Columbia 3.636 Mt
Iraq 3.438 Mt
Argentina 2.871 Mt
Trinidad 2.844 Mt
Peru 1.776 Mt
Burma 1.088 Mt
Canada 1.082 Mt
Egypt 0.929 Mt
Not only did the Germans not have much oil domestically, but none of their Allies or areas the conquered had much either. Even the Romanian field at Polesti which was so important that it was literally the most well defended air-space in the world and the US lost a lot of planes and aircrew trying to destroy it only produced a small fraction of what the US produced.
(https://i.imgur.com/LWaEX3u.png)
Heaviest armor of any WW 2 tank (Tiger 2), 150 mm.
I love the dry British humor. I saw an interview with a British WWII tanker who encountered one of these. He was in a Sherman which was quicker and could train it's gun faster so they got off the first two shots. His explanation was:
"We fired a shot at him and it bounced right off so we fired another shot at him and that one bounced right off too. Then he fired a shot at us and that one didn't bounce right off."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 11:51:25 AM
They had a tradeoff between a V engine and a rotary.  The V-12 were more streamlined of course, but had to be liquid cooled.  The rotarys were air cooled, but the back cylinders didn't always get cooled to the "degree" necessary.  The one of the first rotary was a 7 cylinder Gnome engine designed in France and many WW 1 aircraft used some version of that made by Gnome-Rhone, even the German planes.  There is a tricky reason why rotarys must have an odd number of cylinders per bank.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 11:54:14 AM
There were so few Tiger 2s out there that a Sherman would very rarely encounter one for real, but the Panther at a distance looks like the Tiger 2, and the Panzer IV looks like a Tiger 1 at a distance.  

The Germans and Russians were in a race to produce ever larger tanks more than the western allies who mostly relied on TDs for tank combat.

The Panther was a pretty good tank, mechanical and fuel issues of course, good main gun.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 12:49:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/iEzFUtt.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 01, 2024, 05:37:38 PM
Good post one of the reasons the P&Ws were so well liked(that I've read) was many were air cooled and could take more hits and make it back than the water cooled birds. The materiel logistics/provisons of this country in WWII were simply unbelievable.I've more than a few times crossed swords with some Brits in YT comment sections about this.They seemingly routinely play lend-lease down when in fact they didn't see a bill for half of the materiel'. I know at the end of the Pacific war many planes were pushed off of aircraft carries by the UK. They were a late arrival in that theatre and got in in long after it was only a matter of time with/with out them. Many planes were sold to the Aussies for pennies on the dollar as the cost of bringing everything back was  superseded the cost of scrap or ability to sell them for a fair exchange.Many Jeeps/trucks were brought back
One of the things that has always fascinated me about WWII is the massive scale of things and how much that increased in just a few years.  

The British Pacific Fleet that you referred to here, at it's height consisted of:
I read once that it was the most powerful non-nuclear fleet that the British ever put to sea and that list is incredibly impressive . . . by early-WWII standards.  In December of 1941 that fleet would have been the world's most powerful surpassing the USN, the IJN and even the RN of that time.  In 1942, 1943, and even in 1944 (at least early in the year) that fleet would have been a massive presence in the Pacific.  

By late 1944 and into 1945 when the war in Europe was winding down to the point that the British could release all of that power from Atlantic duties and send it to the Pacific, the USN had grown to such a gargantuan size that Admiral King didn't actually want it.  He argued that providing logistical support to the Brits (who were unaccustomed to USN underway replenishment practices since they had operated near bases in the Atlantic and Mediterranean) would be more trouble than it was worth.  

The US didn't actually turn down the British Fleet (Nimitz wanted the help and Roosevelt overruled King) but the fact that it was even considered is illustrative of just how large the USN was by that time.  It was so large that 21 Aircraft Carriers joining wasn't really a big deal.  

Give this much to the British:
Their carriers carried less planes because they had armored decks which took up a lot of weight thus limiting the number of planes they could carry but those armored decks were VASTLY better against the late war Kamikaze attacks than the unarmored USN carrier decks.  The USN never actually lost a fleet carrier to a Kamikaze but a number of USN Fleet carriers were so badly damaged by Kamikaze attacks that they had to be taken out of service and sent home for months of repairs.  Several British Carriers were hit by Kamikazes and they were MUCH better able to brush off the damage.  Their armored decks kept the explosions topside thus limiting the damage to personnel and equipment on deck.  

In my experience the Brits are not nearly as averse to giving credit to Lend Lease as the Communists and Communist apologists.  They'll shout at the top of their lungs that "80% of the German Army was on the Eastern Front in 1944" but never acknowledge that:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 01, 2024, 06:13:57 PM
They had a tradeoff between a V engine and a rotary.  The V-12 were more streamlined of course, but had to be liquid cooled.  The rotarys were air cooled, but the back cylinders didn't always get cooled to the "degree" necessary. 
I know they had a LOT of trouble with that on the 18 cylinder twin-row B29 engines. It was even worse on the four-row, 28 cylinder radial engines for the postwar B36. 

The B36 had six of the aforementioned four-row 28 cylinder radials plus four jet engines. The slogan was supposed to be "six turning, four burning." Engine heat and fire problems were so bad that the crews changed it to "Two turning, two burning, two smoking, two choking, and two unaccounted for."
There is a tricky reason why rotarys must have an odd number of cylinders per bank.
I knew they had an odd number of cylinders per row/bank but I didn't know why so I looked it up after reading this comment. It makes sense now, every other piston fires so you need an odd number to switch from odds to evens each revolution. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 06:20:11 PM
Gnome N-9 > National Museum of the United States Air Force™ > Display (af.mil) (https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/197466/gnome-n-9/)

The Gnome was a rotary type, meaning the engine and propeller were bolted together, and both rotated around a fixed shaft. Air passing over the hot cylinders cooled the spinning engine. Gnome Monosoupape (single valve) engines like the one on display had one valve per cylinder acting as both air inlet and exhaust. Fuel was mixed with air not in a carburetor, but in the hollow central shaft, where the fuel-air mixture entered each cylinder at its base.

Gnome engines were reliable and powerful for their weight, but had certain drawbacks. First, the gyroscopic effect of the heavy, spinning engine made quick left turns easy, but hard right turns were difficult. Second, the motor used a large amount of fuel and lubricating castor oil, and some of the unburned oil was thrown from the spinning engine, making life unpleasant for pilot a few feet behind it. A cowling around the engine directed most of this under the aircraft, but thick, greasy fumes and oil inevitably coated the pilot. Castor oil was used because it burns cleanly, but pilots joked about its well-known laxative effect.

Gnome engines were built with great craftsmanship, and all their parts were finely machined to very close tolerances. The cutaway 165-hp Gnome N-9 on display shows how the design worked. The engine had no throttle so pilots used a "blip switch" on the control stick to adjust power when landing -- turning the engine on and off to maintain the right speed -- though some adjustment was possible by restricting air and fuel flow. Clerget and Bentley rotaries featured a selector switch for using 9, 7, 5 or 3 cylinders to adjust power.

Gnomes powered many aircraft, including Nieuports, Moranes and Sopwiths. Rotary engines, however, fell out of favor after the war. More fuel-efficient in-line and non-rotating radial engines did not have the rotaries' gyroscopic problem, they produced less drag, and their fixed cylinders could be made larger and more powerful than rotating ones. Faster, heavier aircraft with greater range had advanced beyond the rotary's capabilities.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 06:24:07 PM
[color=var(--black-300)][color=var(--theme-body-font-color, var(--black-600))]102
[/font][/color][/font][/size][/color]
[color=var(--black-300)] (https://aviation.stackexchange.com/posts/47193/timeline)[/font][/size][/color]

An odd number of cylinders is required by the combination of the single-crank radial design, the four-stroke (Otto) work cycle, and the desire to keep the power strokes evenly spaced in time.
To keep the design simple and lightweight, a single-bank radial airplane engine has one crank, which means that the pistons must reach the top of their travel in rotation order. But the four-stroke cycle requires that a piston must reach the top of its travel twice for each power stroke. The only way to promote evenly timed power strokes is to fire every other cylinder in rotation order.
With an even number of cylinders this would require a hesitation or skip in the firing sequence on every rotation as the engine switched between the odd and even cylinders. With an odd number of cylinders the timing is quite naturally smooth. For example, the firing order of an eight-cylinder radial would be

Code: [Select]
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
*   *   *   *     *   *   *   * *   *   *   *     *   *   *   *

while the firing order of a nine-cylinder radial is

Code: [Select]
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

If you could watch a radial airplane engine in slow motion you would see that when a cylinder is in its compression stroke, the cylinders on either side of it are in their exhaust strokes, and when a cylinder is beginning its power stroke, the cylinders on either side of it are near to beginning their intake strokes.
Two-stroke radial engines do not need to have an odd number of cylinders.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 06:30:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/yhmBXF8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 06:33:44 PM
I was musing, a fighter aircraft from 1940 would still be workable in 1945.  A ship would as well.  A rifle.  Artillery. But a 1940 tank?  

None of them would be more than marginally effective by 1945.  I know the Panzer IVD with a short barrelled 75mm was used in 1940, that would be close perhaps.  Most of the German tanks in 1940 were Panzer IIs with a 20 mm main gun not much use really against any kind of armor.  The Panzer III had a 37 mm gun.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 10:14:18 PM
In 1904 Ty Cobb, encouraged by a Royston teammate who had had a failed professional tryout, contacted teams in the newly formed South Atlantic (Sally) League. He received a response from the Augusta (Georgia) Tourists, inviting Cobb to spring training provided the boy pay his own expenses, and offering him a contract for $50 per month, contingent on Cobb making the team. For young Tyrus, this was a dream come true, a chance to play professional baseball. His father tried to talk him out of the decision, but finally relented, telling his son, “You’ve chosen. So be it, son. Go get it out of your system, and let us hear from you.”
Cobb was released just two games into his stay with Augusta, but immediately received an offer from a semipro team in Anniston, Alabama. Cobb called his father, who advised him “Go for it. And I want to tell you one other thing — don’t come home a failure.” These words were to have a great impact in shaping the life and baseball career of Ty Cobb. Cobb played well with Anniston, and by August he received a telegram from Augusta asking him to rejoin the team.
The year 1905 was to be a fateful one for Cobb. He reported to Augusta for spring training, and got the chance to play in two exhibition games against the Detroit Tigers. The Tigers trained in Augusta in return for an option to purchase one player from the Augusta team at a later date. Cobb made an impression on the Tigers with his talent and his aggressive, even reckless, style of play.
Augusta got off to a poor start, and Cobb’s play was uninspiring. In July, however, veteran George Leidy replaced Andy Roth as manager, and took Cobb under his wing. He told young Ty that he was wasting his talent, and schooled him in the finer points of the game. Cobb became the league’s best hitter, and Detroit and other teams began to take notice. The tutelage of Leidy was the turning point in Cobb’s career.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 10:20:29 PM
Who Was Ty Cobb? The History We Know That’s Wrong - Imprimis (hillsdale.edu) (https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/who-was-ty-cobb-the-history-we-know-thats-wrong/)

But what about Cobb’s 19th-century Southern roots? How could someone born in Georgia in 1886 not be a racist? What I found—and again, not because I am the Babe Ruth of researchers, but because I actually did some research—is that Ty Cobb was descended from a long line of abolitionists. His great-grandfather was a minister who preached against slavery and was run out of town for it. His grandfather refused to fight in the Confederate army because of the slavery issue. And his father was an educator and state senator who spoke up for his black constituents and is known to have once broken up a lynch mob.

Cobb himself was never asked about segregation until 1952, when the Texas League was integrating, and Sporting News asked him what he thought. “The Negro should be accepted wholeheartedly, and not grudgingly,” he said. “The Negro has the right to play professional baseball and whose [sic] to say he has not?” By that time he had attended many Negro league games, sometimes throwing out the first ball and often sitting in the dugout with the players. He is quoted as saying that Willie Mays was the only modern-day player he’d pay to see and that Roy Campanella was the ballplayer that reminded him most of himself.
Cobb was, like the rest of us, a highly imperfect human being. He was too quick to take offense and too intolerant of those who didn’t strive for excellence with the over-the-top zeal that he did. He did not suffer fools gladly, and he thought too many others fools. He was the first baseball celebrity, and he did not always handle well the responsibilities that came with that. And yes, he once went into the stands and repeatedly punched a man who had been heckling him for more than a year, and who turned out to have less than the full complement of fingers—hence the story of him attacking a handicapped fan. This is a mark against him. But was he a racist and an embarrassment to the game? Far from it.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 10:34:11 PM
To be clear, this story is apocryphal. If this was said at all, it may not even have been Cobb who said it (some versions attribute the quote to Lefty O’Doul, speaking about Cobb).

But anyway, as the story goes, in the year before his death, Cobb was asked by a reporter how he would fare in the modern game.

“I’d hit about .300,” Cobb said.
The reporter was aghast. Ty Cobb? Only hitting .300?
“You’ve got to remember,” Cobb added, “I’m 73 years old!”


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2024, 07:40:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Charles the Good Is Assassinated (1127)
As count of Flanders from 1119 until his death, Charles the Good strove to help the poor, distributing bread in times of famine and working to ensure that grain was sold to them at a fair price. Angered by this policy, one influential family had Charles hacked to death while in church. The popular count's brutal murder provoked public outrage, and though he was not formally beatified until the 19th century, he was almost immediately regarded popularly as a martyr.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2024, 08:32:32 AM
Cy Young never won a Cy Young.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2024, 09:14:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/he8zD3g.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 03, 2024, 09:18:14 AM
Pandora

According to Greek mythology, Zeus ordered that the first woman, Pandora, be created as a punishment to humankind for Prometheus's theft of fire. The gods endowed her with every charm, but also with curiosity and deceit. Zeus sent her to marry Prometheus's brother, Epimetheus, and gave her a box that he forbade her to open. Despite Prometheus's warnings, Epimetheus allowed Pandora to open the box, letting out all the evils that have since afflicted man.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2024, 11:25:31 AM
Steve Balboni to reporter after hitting a grand slam: “Hitting your first grand slam is a thrill. I’ll always remember this.”
Reporter: “You hit a grand slam two years ago, Steve.”
Balboni: “Oh yeah. I guess I forgot about that one.”

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2024, 01:42:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/B3Ht3A0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 03, 2024, 08:58:19 PM
Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp engines are prepared for shipment at the Ford Aircraft Engine Plant in Dearborn, Michigan - 1942
The Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp was a twin-row, 18-cylinder, air-cooled radial aircraft engine with a displacement of 2,800 cubic inches.
Designed in 1937, 125,334 total variants of the R-2800 were manufactured between 1939 - 1960.
Aircraft that used the R-2800 included;
Douglas A-26 Invader
Douglas DC-6
Fairchild C-82 Packet
Fairchild C-123 Provider
Grumman F6F Hellcat
Grumman F7F Tigercat
Grumman F8F Bearcat
Martin B-26 Marauder
Martin PBM-5 Mariner
Northrop P-61 Black Widow
Republic P-47 Thunderbolt
Vought F4U Corsair
And many more…
LIFE Magazine Archives - Gordon Coster Photographer


(https://i.imgur.com/6V9Ops6.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 06:55:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/pdZvWXb.png)

he largest warship to ever transit the Great Lakes. The 8-inch gun Heavy Cruiser USS Macon came through the Seaway in 1959 to officially open the new waterway. She is seen here in the Eisenhower Lock. Note the missing radar antenna, removed in Boston to allow passage through the Seaway 's lift bridges due to her high air draft. The ship had all sorts of problems rubbing bottom and bumping into walls on her way through due to the large size, powerful engines, and the open ocean design of her hull.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 08:21:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Chicago Is Incorporated as a City (1837)
In 1803, the US Army built Fort Dearborn on a tract of land along the Chicago River that had been acquired from the Native Americans after the Northwest Indian War. Over time, the settlement that grew up around the fort was incorporated as a city. A major port and the commercial, financial, industrial, and cultural center of the Midwest, Chicago is now the third-largest city in the US. Its name is derived from the Native American word shikaakwa, meaning "onion field,"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 08:22:07 AM
ARTICLE OF THE DAY: 

The White Rose Society
During the early 1940s, a group of German university students and their philosophy professor founded the White Rose resistance movement, secretly drafting, printing, and distributing leaflets urging Germans, particularly the intelligentsia, to rise up against the Nazi regime. In February 1943, 2 prominent White Rose members, Sophie and Hans Scholl, were arrested. The rest of the group's founding members were soon captured, and all 7 were sentenced to death.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 08:56:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Eqm87GG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2024, 09:11:07 AM
Cy Young never won a Cy Young.
Oscar never won an Oscar

well except for Hammerstein that is
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 04, 2024, 10:19:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Eqm87GG.png)
B36 wing?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 10:45:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bPulQT3.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 10:52:31 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uTaQXUd.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 04, 2024, 10:55:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bPulQT3.png)
Glowing reviews no doubt
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 04, 2024, 10:57:55 AM
Oscar never won an Oscar
but he did meet Meyer
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 11:05:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/45IYkis.png)

B-36 wings above, and flight engineer and his controls here.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 11:12:47 AM
The sweet potato is North Carolina’s state vegetable and we harvest a LOT of them.  North Carolina grows nearly 60% of all United States sweet potatoes, more than any other state.  By the way, sweet potatoes are a great source of Vitamins A & C, beta carotene, fiber and potassium.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 11:17:54 AM
still too many carbs
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 11:23:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uTaQXUd.png)
Interesting... Is that actually a real sign, that still stands today, at the Eastern terminus of I-40? 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 11:24:38 AM
could be a clever photoshop from the Barstow chamber of commerce 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 11:31:24 AM
It's a real sign, but keeps getting stolen.  This is the other end.

(https://i.imgur.com/qiZBRsZ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 11:35:44 AM
It's a real sign, but keeps getting stolen.  This is the other end.

(https://i.imgur.com/qiZBRsZ.png)
Got it. I've driven I-40 from the other end at least once, but didn't notice that at the time. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 11:36:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/mIAGB16.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 11:37:00 AM
We did have this one near us, for a short while :57:

https://abc7.com/street-sign-bobs-house-bob-directions/2968806/

(https://i.imgur.com/bXARkhv.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 04, 2024, 11:43:51 AM
Got it. I've driven I-40 from the other end at least once, but didn't notice that at the time.
I did, and it was depressing!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 04, 2024, 11:53:56 AM
Got it. I've driven I-40 from the other end at least once, but didn't notice that at the time.
Here it is screen capture from Google Maps street view. The sign is at the I15/I40 split, right as or right before I40-W starts to curve North (away) from I40-E to merge into I15.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 11:55:51 AM
Here it is screen capture from Google Maps street view. The sign is at the I15/I40 split, right as or right before I40-W starts to curve North (away) from I40-E to merge into I15.
Yep. BTW I-15 curves North(ish) to head to Vegas, whereas I-40 stays East...

I'm pretty sure I've only taken I-40 once, to go to Laughlin NV. Which considering how much I hate Vegas, and Laughlin is like Vegas without the glitz and glamour, is why I've never gone that way since lol...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 04, 2024, 12:12:58 PM
Yep. BTW I-15 curves North(ish) to head to Vegas, whereas I-40 stays East...

I'm pretty sure I've only taken I-40 once, to go to Laughlin NV. Which considering how much I hate Vegas, and Laughlin is like Vegas without the glitz and glamour, is why I've never gone that way since lol...
I've been by there more times than you then but the first time is the most interesting, it was at about 11pm on January 1, 1997:

January 1, 1997 started EARLY. My parents, brother, and I drove to California for the Ohio State vs Arizona State Rose Bowl. Well, dad, brother, and I were there for the game. Mom's price to green light the trip was that she wanted to see the Rose Parade so we woke up in our hotel at 0-dark-thirty, packed everything in the van, and drove to the RoseBowl where we parked on the adjacent golf course at about dawn then headed up the hill to Colorado Boulevard to get a view of the Parade.

After the Parade we walked back down the hill with the other 100k people heading to the game and waited for the Stadium to open.

Ohio State beat ASU and Jake "the Snake" in a very exciting game and after the game we headed toward home. We headed West out of Pasadena then North on I15 to Barstow where we saw that sign on our way onto I40 East.

We spent the night near Needles, California then drove straight through from Needles back to Ohio (I40E->I44E->I70E->I71N).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 04:04:36 PM
From Facebook..............

These three enormous flak towers guarded a German Marine base near Angers, France. Each tower would have been armed with several large caliber and small caliber anti-aircraft guns, including the much feared 88 mm Flak gun.

(https://i.imgur.com/d564Tzv.png)

Comment from someone on facebook..........

These look like bog-standard French "châteaux d'eau" (water towers). Not a single destroyed flak gun is visible and given the open terrain with a full 360 degree field of fire there would be no need to go to the trouble of hoisting an 88 up there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2024, 07:56:02 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Winston Churchill's "Iron Curtain" Speech (1946)
The phrase "Iron Curtain" refers to the political, military, and ideological barrier erected by the USSR after WWII to seal itself and its dependent eastern European allies off from contact with the West. Churchill's use of the phrase in a 1946 speech at a US college, though initially perceived as antagonistic, popularized the term. The Iron Curtain largely ceased to exist in 1990, when the communists of eastern Europe finally abandoned one-party rule.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 08:02:56 AM
The Fearsome Nazi Tower That Held Off the Allies in Berlin (popularmechanics.com) (https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a21240241/the-fearsome-nazi-tower-that-held-off-the-allies-in-berlin/)

These things were massive.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 08:54:49 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/t7gFaCo.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 05, 2024, 09:59:25 AM
The Fearsome Nazi Tower That Held Off the Allies in Berlin (popularmechanics.com) (https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a21240241/the-fearsome-nazi-tower-that-held-off-the-allies-in-berlin/)

These things were massive.
One of those they turned into apartments or some such.It would take an ocscene amount of ordinance to destroy them. I did find this

https://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/flakturm-iv-g-tower-wwii-german-flak-tower-converted-into-apartments/
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 12:59:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/74tDea0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 01:26:02 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/CZXTWUL.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 04:37:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pATSzaT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 04:40:17 PM
No doubt a lot of battles are unknown, not on wiki, but this was interesting to me.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 06, 2024, 05:39:18 PM
Damn European types hopefully they don't migrate anywhere
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2024, 08:39:28 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US President Ronald Reagan Dubs the USSR an "Evil Empire" (1983)
Reagan's strong anti-communist position, evident from the time he began his presidential career, was highlighted in a 1983 speech in which he referred to the USSR as an "evil empire." The phrase became common in Cold War rhetoric and has since entered popular culture, taking on a nearly iconic status. It has been used in a variety of contexts to refer to entities as varied as Wal-Mart and the British Empire.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 08, 2024, 09:13:12 AM
William J. Guarnere Sr. (Wild Bill) passed away 10 yrs ago Today
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2024, 08:30:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

WWII: Bombing of Tokyo Kills 100,000 (1945)
During WWII, Allied bombing devastated half of Tokyo, destroyed or damaged many famous landmarks, and ruined nearly all of the city's industrial plants. In the US firebombing raid that began on March 9, 1945, nearly 2,000 tons of incendiary bombs were dropped on the Japanese capital, killing roughly 100,000 people and destroying about 16 mi² (41 km²) of the city—making it the most destructive conventional bombing raid in history.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2024, 08:52:26 AM
If there was any justice tomorrow's THIS DAY IN HISTORY would read. Citizens hang Hirohito
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2024, 09:15:58 AM
perhaps the same for Ismail Haniyeh
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2024, 10:41:54 PM
American servicemen load paintings and sculptures looted by Hermann Göring, discovered in a cave near Berchtesgaden in May, 1945.

(https://i.imgur.com/fwfCzOC.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2024, 05:00:20 AM
I toured Tokyo today. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2024, 05:51:25 AM
Walked over 9 miles today.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2024, 07:44:45 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Pink Floyd Releases Dark Side of the Moon (1973)
Dark Side of the Moon is a concept album by the rock group Pink Floyd that explores the nature of the human experience through themes such as money, war, mental illness, and death. It is considered by many fans to be the band's magnum opus. It is one of the best-selling albums of all time—it is estimated that one in every 14 people in the US under the age of 50 owns or owned a copy of this album.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2024, 07:45:17 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

James Earl Ray (1928)
Ray was a petty criminal who escaped from prison in 1967, while serving a sentence for armed robbery. On April 4, 1968, he is believed to have shot Martin Luther King, Jr., as King was emerging from his Memphis motel room. Ray then fled to Canada, England, Portugal, and back to England, where he was apprehended. He pled guilty and was sentenced to 99 years in prison but later recanted his confession.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2024, 10:38:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Great Blizzard of '88 Begins (1888)
The Great Blizzard of '88 was one of the most severe blizzards in US history. Snowfalls of 40 to 50 in (102 to 127 cm) fell in parts of New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, and Connecticut, and snowdrifts exceeded 50 ft (15 m) in some places. Railroads were shut down, and people were confined to their houses for up to a week. More than 400 people died from the storm and the ensuing cold, including 200 in New York City alone.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 11, 2024, 10:44:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

WWII: Bombing of Tokyo Kills 100,000 (1945)
During WWII, Allied bombing devastated half of Tokyo, destroyed or damaged many famous landmarks, and ruined nearly all of the city's industrial plants. In the US firebombing raid that began on March 9, 1945, nearly 2,000 tons of incendiary bombs were dropped on the Japanese capital, killing roughly 100,000 people and destroying about 16 mi² (41 km²) of the city—making it the most destructive conventional bombing raid in history.
I'm not 100% positive of this, but I think that the qualifier "conventional" is unnecessary in this sentence because the firebombing of Tokyo was more destructive than either of the atomic bombings.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2024, 05:15:09 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

California's St. Francis Dam Fails (1928)
Constructed between 1924 and 1926, the St. Francis Dam was a concrete gravity-arch dam designed to act as a reservoir to store water for the Los Angeles Aqueduct. In 1928, the dam catastrophically failed, and the resulting flood of 12 billion US gallons (45 billion liters) of water killed more than 450 people. The dam's collapse was the worst American civil engineering failure of the 20th century and remains the second-greatest loss of life disaster in California's history
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2024, 09:25:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/uQIIhuz.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2024, 07:42:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: p

The Phoenix Lights: Aliens or Air Force? (1997)
In 1997, thousands of people reported a series of optical phenomena—since known as the Phoenix Lights—taking place in the skies over the US states of Arizona and Nevada. The sightings consisted of two events: a triangular formation of lights observed passing overhead and a series of stationary lights seen in the Phoenix area. Although the US Air Force identified the second group of lights as flares, many believe the first set of lights were those of a UFO
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2024, 09:04:15 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Nazis "Liquidate" Poland's Kraków Ghetto (1943)
In 1941, the Nazis ordered all remaining Jews in the Polish city of Kraków—15,000 of an original 68,000—to move into a walled-off district of the city, thereafter known as the Kraków ghetto. The systematic deportation of these Jews to concentration camps began in May 1942. On March 13 and 14, 1943, the deportation of 8,000 Jews to a nearby camp and the killing of 2,000 in the streets completed the Nazi's "liquidation" of the ghetto.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2024, 02:39:49 PM
Charles Lindberg, a recent college drop out from the University of Wisconsin enrolled in the Nebraska Aircraft Corporation Flight School in Lincoln in February, 1922 where we took his first ride in a two-seat Lincoln Standard "Tourabout" biplane trainer piloted by Otto Timm.

(https://i.imgur.com/qRca5Ji.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 15, 2024, 08:52:10 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Commercial Internet Domain Name Registered (1985)
A domain name is an address of a computer, organization, or other entity on a network, such as the Internet, that follows TCP/IP communications protocol. Domain names must be unique on the Internet and must be assigned by a registrar accredited by the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers. They typically include the type and name of an organization and identify the specific host server at the address. The first commercial Internet domain name was registered in 1985.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on March 15, 2024, 10:28:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

First Commercial Internet Domain Name Registered (1985)
A domain name is an address of a computer, organization, or other entity on a network, such as the Internet, that follows TCP/IP communications protocol. Domain names must be unique on the Internet and must be assigned by a registrar accredited by the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers. They typically include the type and name of an organization and identify the specific host server at the address. The first commercial Internet domain name was registered in 1985.


Didn't know that.  I dug a little deeper:


Symbolics.com


Answer: The first domain name registered was Symbolics.com. It was registered March 15, 1985, to Symbolics Inc., a computer systems company in Cambridge, Mass.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 15, 2024, 10:41:29 AM
probably not still alive
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 15, 2024, 10:56:49 AM
Didn't know that.  I dug a little deeper:


Symbolics.com


Answer: The first domain name registered was Symbolics.com. It was registered March 15, 1985, to Symbolics Inc., a computer systems company in Cambridge, Mass.
Thanks.

When I read @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) 's post I wondered what it was.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2024, 10:18:43 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
My Lai Massacre (1968)
During the Vietnam War, US troops searching for Viet Cong fighters massacred hundreds of civilians from the Vietnamese hamlet of My Lai. Though they had not located any insurgents in My Lai, the soldiers opened fire on the villagers, killing men, women, and children. The incident was initially covered up by army officers. When it was revealed in the press nearly two years later, it divided the US public and increased pressure to end the war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2024, 09:49:26 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Synthesis of Californium Announced (1950)
The sixth transuranium element to be synthesized, californium is an artificially produced, radioactive metallic chemical element. A member of the actinide series of elements, it has isotopes with half-lives ranging from about 40 seconds to 900 years. One isotope, californium-252, is used as a neutron source in nuclear reactors. Which four scientists first produced californium in a cyclotron at the University of California at Berkeley?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2024, 10:09:00 AM
A 20P7 armored bell at Musée D-Day Omaha. With walls 250-295 mm thick, weighing 56 tons and with an internal diameter of 2.25 metres (7 ft 5 in), the 20P7 provided six equally-spaced protected firing positions for a machine gun around its circumference, though standard practice saw only two of these positions being used at a time. It was constructed from extremely thick chrome molybdenum steel, and would have been partially buried in a concrete base

(https://i.imgur.com/Y0BAgqk.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2024, 08:02:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

UK Recognizes British Sign Language as Official Language (2003)
Making use of space and involving movement of the hands, body, face, and head, British Sign Language (BSL) is the preferred language of deaf people in the UK and those who communicate with them, such as relatives and interpreters. BSL has regional and local dialects, and some signs go in and out of fashion or evolve over time, just like spoken words.