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Topic: OT: Milwaukee Crime

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CatsbyAZ

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OT: Milwaukee Crime
« on: July 28, 2018, 07:47:12 AM »
For the second month in a row a Milwaukee Police Officer was killed in the  line of duty. Officer Michael Milchalski, age 52: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jsonline.com/amp/840754002

I used to visit Milwaukee more often when work had me traveling the Great Lake states, and always thought of the town as very underrated. Great sports scene, summers, beer festivals, friendly locals, but what’s with the violent crime? A number of times locals cautioned me against the crime whenever I praised their town. Is it Chicago spillover? Milwaukee ranks in the top 15 nationally in every violent crime category. 

Indianapolis similarly surprised me - great downtown, educated population, but man, some the more neglected neighborhoods had Baltimore like murder rates.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2018, 08:57:30 AM »
Only been once
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

MarqHusker

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2018, 09:47:30 AM »
I just lost a long post on this.  Oh well. There are several contributing factors beyond the usual. A lot of topics that belong on another thread somewhere else.

That neighborhood where this occurred has been terrible for decades.  When I defended a few people before the DAs office could hire me years ago  I had a client who lived nearby always telling me not to go through Metcalfe Park, it's been the site for some pretty brazen violent crime since I was a kid.  I'm sure the crime data maps online would demonstrate this.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2018, 11:11:51 AM »
No doubt this can be explained easily, without venturing into the weeds of partisan political burfle. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

847badgerfan

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2018, 11:31:23 AM »
No doubt this can be explained easily, without venturing into the weeds of partisan political burfle.
Probably not.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2018, 12:45:23 PM »
I had a rental car broken into and my laptop stolen there a few years back. Broad daylight, during lunch, at a crowded restaurant.

Drew4UTk

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2018, 01:15:31 PM »
Ive put my hand on my sidearm one time in this country, with absolite intent of presentation being my next action... If its being drawn its being fired unless there is a drastic alteration of conditions that happens real real fast...  

That was in Milwaukee....

I honestly believe the ring leader of that little group had seen a look like that before and de-escalated, and I gave them the out of promptly agreeing I'd "get my ----- ass out of there".... 

I was pumping fuel at what I thought to be a fairly safe place. 

Milwaukee is a beautiful place and has potential to be a destination location with their historic architecture if nothing else...... Its a shame. Ill top off at the Racine exit or wait until green bay from now on. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2018, 01:52:20 PM »
No doubt this can be explained easily, without venturing into the weeds of partisan political burfle.
It should, but no.  
Race, economics, which lives matter, etc will break down real ugly, real fast.
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FearlessF

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2018, 03:41:26 PM »
been there once, had a good time, went to a Brewer's game in the new park, stayed overnight with my daughters in a Holiday Inn

probably in the good side of town

a shame
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MarqHusker

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2018, 03:56:23 PM »

there is a fair amount of crossover between the cities (related to gang activity), specifically some of the national gangs which have alliances on the north side.   The south side gangs in Milwaukee are much more territorial, though that's not new.  The organized crime rivalries (amongst Sicilians) were quite prolific between the two World Wars, and into the 60s between the two cities.

Not that this is dispositive, but here are two rudimentary images of crime rates in Chicago (2.4mil) and Milwaukee (600k) respectively.   Two very segregated cities with very similar homicide rates.   The darker the blue, the safer (lower the rate of homicide, etc.).    I've been out of the county and also federal court house for some time now, but I doubt things have changed much.   There is significant gang activity in both of these cities, not news and I remember a map we had when I interned in the US Attorney's Office (working on HIDTA related cases, this is High Intensity Drug Trafficking Areas).  The correlation between homicides and surprise surprise HIDT was totally in line.   Such concentration.   Meanwhile you could travel for miles through other parts of the city and you're in a different world altogether.    

Milwaukee has always been heavily segregated, and I'm not just talking black or white.  The city was founded in 1846,  a city of immigrants,  eastern europe, western europe, you name it.   Germans were the largest immigrant force (still a German speaking school in the city), Irish, Poles, Serbs (Slavs), Italians.  More Schmidts than Smiths was the joke.  The city had and still does today, though less so, ethnic enclaves around the city.   Catholic parishes are often known to be 'Italian' or 'Polish' or Hispanic churches.   Blacks moved to Milwaukee in larger numbers during the post War period.  Then the rust belt formed, suburbs boomed and inner city Milwaukee like many of its Midwest peers, started to deteriorate.  It remains a majority minority city (I think its 40% black, 33% white, 20% Hispanic, 7% other)

Setting aside the obvious, among other things (poverty, lack of education, lack of opportunity, lack of family structure, presence of drugs),  the one thing that bothers me is the lack of civic leadership.  There's a reluctance of those outside these areas to stick their noses into the neighborhoods because then those in the high crime neighborhoods don't want hear it.  Or they simply put their heads in the sand because it isn't their neighborhood.   Meanwhile, those inside these neighborhoods, pounce on any sight of outsiders extending a hand, and (at least in Milwaukee) have forever maintained hostility towards the PD (whether that's justified, or not, it isn't helping matters.  Obtaining cooperation in cases I worked was impossible.  Nobody talks).   The milquetoast history of Milwaukee mayors haven't exactly helped matters.  They all walk on eggshells.

In many respects it is a wonderful and beautiful city with so many positive qualities but it sure has some serious problems.  This post isn't designed to incite or push one button or another, just trying to highlight some of the dynamics.

CatsbyAZ

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2018, 03:46:46 PM »
Thanks Marq, explains much more than I was hoping for.

bayareabadger

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2018, 06:16:21 PM »
Someone wrote an excellent book called Evicted set in Milwaukee. It ends with some policy prescriptions some won't like (I frankly wasn't the biggest on them). But most of it was stories from a guy who hung out in trailer parks and the wrong side of town, documenting the day-to-day trials of being poor in those cities. 

It's pretty illustrative, especially the way a lack of transit or stable housing can just push folks over the edge into a treadmill of struggle. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2018, 08:00:53 PM »
I've always found the idea of gangs goofy.  A completely arbitrary, invented 'us vs them' construct.  It's childish.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2018, 08:34:10 PM »
So gangs are like football? 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

 

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