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Topic: OT: Milwaukee Crime

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Drew4UTk

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2018, 08:38:35 PM »
I've always found the idea of gangs goofy.  A completely arbitrary, invented 'us vs them' construct.  It's childish.  
survival is the catalyst, but then greed takes over the wheel house.  it's not a lot different than a lot of things.  

Anonymous Coward

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2018, 08:57:03 PM »
survival is the catalyst, but then greed takes over the wheel house.  it's not a lot different than a lot of things.  
I see it like this as well. It won't be part of my story but it's not hard to understand why it's a part of some stories.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2018, 11:44:49 AM »
I've always found the idea of gangs goofy.  A completely arbitrary, invented 'us vs them' construct.  It's childish.  
No, not really. There's an economy there that the gangs build around... Much like what the mafia does.
If you're going to be trafficking in illegal substances/activities, by nature you cannot rely on the police to enforce those who aggress against you. So you need to provide your own protection. And that protection has to be willing to retaliate against aggression outside the law--i.e. with violence. 
So if drugs are illegal, but people still want them, there are going to be organizations built up to service that demand. Those organizations need to enforce loyalty and have their members prove loyalty--because if your personal "police" force isn't loyal to you, you have nothing. Like any business, you want to grow, and so do your competitors. But since it's an illegal product, you tend to grow by acquiring "turf", and shrink by losing it. And the only way to grow is to displace the rival gang on your border and take the turf away from them.
And like the mafia, gangs have their positive side. While it's a dangerous life, your gang will protect you and take care of you when you need it. While they may cause violence with rival gangs, they try to "make nice" with the residents/families in their own turf both to attract future members and to keep those families from "snitching" to the cops. And since the police often neglect those areas unless called, the gangs often provide the little security that one has in those neighborhoods. 
It's not in any way an arbitrary 'us vs them' construct. It's a natural response to some very unnatural conditions. 

Drew4UTk

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2018, 12:12:02 PM »
.......It's a natural response to some very unnatural conditions.
I don't view this as unnatural conditions at all... following the theories of "contract with society" and "noble savage", it is about as natural as anything else.... the subjects are simply adapting to the rules/conditions offered by the society they wish to participate within.  it's certainly no different than the alternate choice, which is to offer reward by following a different social construct- go to school, do well; go to college, do well; join workforce, do well; retire, do well; .... what's offered with the 'gang life' of drug trade is a quick access to riches however perilous... what's offered by the athletic avenue is much the same... it's the same with music from those lifestyles too- either you make it big or you go down in flames...
i can't find it though i've spent the last five minutes or so looking, but the opening prologue of "Dirty White Boys" by Stephan Hunter actually communicated it the best way I've ever encountered, and it basically states "if you reduce my opportunity and/or make the trek to success exceedingly stacked against me, don't be pissed off when i find another way- you're a fool for expecting otherwise"...

aye- finally found it:

Quote
“There is a paradox at the core of penology, and from it derives the thousand ills and afflictions of the prison system. It is that not only the worst of the young are sent to prison, but the best—that is, the proudest, the bravest, the most daring, the most enterprising and the most undefeated of the poor. There starts the horror. —Norman Mailer’s introduction to In the Belly of the Beast by Jack Henry Abbott No one knows what it’s like to be the bad man.” 
― Stephen HunterDirty White Boys
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 12:18:30 PM by Drew4UTk »

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2018, 02:38:01 PM »
the subjects are simply adapting to the rules/conditions offered by the society they wish to participate within.

...

what's offered with the 'gang life' of drug trade is a quick access to riches however perilous...

...

what's offered by the athletic avenue is much the same... it's the same with music from those lifestyles too- either you make it big or you go down in flames...
But the rules/conditions are inherently unnatural when you create a large and lucrative black market by criminalizing the use of substances in what we would call "victimless" crimes. 
We've created a crime syndicate around the black market. The exact same thing happened during Prohibition. Yet now, there's no gangs/mafia involved in alcohol bootlegging, because you don't need to bootleg to get alcohol. It's legal. 
The illegality of the drugs is what is unnatural. 
That's the difference between this and the athletic/music angles. There is no "gang violence" between competing AAU teams. And while there have been issues between some rappers, it's not exactly what I'd call prevalent in the same way that gang violence between rival gangs is prevalent. 

Drew4UTk

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2018, 02:39:26 PM »
I'm tracking you now @bwarbiany ... 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2018, 08:58:54 PM »
I don't believe this is "political", as I believe both sides agree:  legalizing drugs helps solve a lot of the southern border traffic - both the importing of drugs and the fleeing of innocents with dangerous home regions.  



Yet we don't do it because "drugs are bad" - unlike booze or smoking.  ~???
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

MarqHusker

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2018, 08:28:34 PM »
Not to belabor this, but last weekend in Chicago, 72 people shot , 13 killed, nobody arrested.  Nobody snitched either. Combine this with much less aggressive policing, and it isn't any wonder who runs the neighborhood.

847badgerfan

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2018, 08:59:40 AM »
86 shot. 14 killed.


Ages 11-63. 


Drug turf wars are rampant.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Honestbuckeye

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2018, 09:01:44 AM »
86 shot. 14 killed.


Ages 11-63.


Drug turf wars are rampant.
So sad.  Yet we as a society have so many other things we seem focused on. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Drew4UTk

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2018, 09:10:03 AM »
i love how the blame is on weapons and not the idiot using the weapon- and the laws in chi town are stricter than most- the cop-out being 'they're purchased in surrounding areas' ....well, they're 'dying' there, NOT in the 'surrounding' area's... so, there is that.... 

it's a culture thing.  the culture has to change. 

847badgerfan

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2018, 09:14:23 AM »
Education, dammit. That starts at home.


Anywho, most of the illegal guns in the city come from Indiana and Michigan. 


Criminals don't get legal guns, FOID cards or concealed carry permits either, unlike law-abiding citizens like me. But the wonks in CessField, downtown and Crook County want to do away with that stuff...
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2018, 09:16:38 AM »
On Milwaukee...


My Dad told me a long time ago that a lot of Chicago people fled to Milwaukee because it paid better in the welfare and food lines. I don't know this to be true though. I never looked and I doubt I could even find anything online to support it.


Perhaps MH could weigh in on this.
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MarqHusker

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Re: OT: Milwaukee Crime
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2018, 07:18:15 PM »
That was accepted as true for sure prior to Gov Thompson implementing W-2 In 1996, which is what inspired welfare reform on a national basis.  Less true today I would suspect as WI welfare numbers plummeted immediately by design. Now Minnesotans sometimes claim this is a thing, attractive social benefits drawing interlopers from neighboring states.

 

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