OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread

[847badgerfan]

I'm always fired up about public sector unions. No need to light it.

[Cincydawg]

I eventually reached 6 weeks of vacation at 25 years.  We could sell back up to two, and I'd usually sell one to get the money for some nice vacation, and we could carry over a couple weeks.  Then late one year the company did away with both options saying they wanted us to "use our vacation to recharge".  BS.  I had things planned for that year and the next and now had to take all six weeks.  This was doubly bad after my kids went off to college.  Anyway, I had some weeks unusued when I retired, which officially was October 31, and I got paid out for those, along with a year's salary (which I squandered half of course ...).

[bayareabadger]

I reckon we would claim to the contrary, but I don't think anybody around here is working to build a better product.  In fact, I'm quite positive that our main goal is to do the things we have to do to ensure that the state gives us our annual raises.  Second behind that is working to satisfy federal and state requirements.  Those things may or may not lead to a better product, but 1) we don't have the primary input in that regard, and 2) it's a by-product, not the intended goal. 

As for time off being time off, I agree.  I'm not actually sure how it works for our exempt employees, I just know that my boss and his boss take days off here and there.  They're both in that 2-days accrued per month range, so, they have them to burn. 

Something I've noticed in my admittedly limited anecdotal experience (my work here and my mom having worked for the state of Louisiana), it seems to be somewhat common for employees to bank up a lot of time and then retire with it.  i.e., somebody technically retires in June, but they effectively quit in March because they had 3 months vacation built up.  A lady in my department just did that.  My mom did that.  I hear about others doing it.  Should I remain here, I don't think I'll do that.  I can't imagine that working an extra several months would affect me in any material way.  I'd rather use my time off intermittently through my career.  I think I'd be happier taking a lot of days off here and there rather than getting to permanently knock off a few months early. 

Yeah, I once had a job where the bottom folks were grinding over hours for a good product while management was reducing quality for cost reasons. Bad times.

I’d assume exempt off time works the same. It’s just they could be badgered into extra work more easily in theory (though not always in practice). 

I feel like some people really like getting that big check. if that’s something your workplace does.

[bayareabadger]

Oddly enough, we didn't track it when the program swapped from accrued to "unlimited". Now we actually do track it.

One of the stated reasons is actually to identify the people who aren't taking enough and to encourage them to take more.

The accrued wasn’t tracked anywhere? 

That second part makes sense in part as cover and in part that if useage is way, way low, you probably open yourself up to some level of lawsuit.

[MikeDeTiger]

I've heard about that being a way to "spike" your final year's pay because the vacation time is paid out to you as a lump sum, and then if your pension is based on something like the average of your pay over the previous 3 years, you've just given yourself a durable pension increase.

Don't know if this is something that applies in Louisiana or Texas...

I'm guessing probably so for Louisiana.  I think I remember mom talking about the state buying out her remaining time when she retired.  

I don't actually know how it works here.  From what it looks like on our department leave calendar, seems like the lady who retired is still technically employed, because her vacation days are showing up for weeks and weeks.  Which would seem to indicate she's using her time, but that it hasn't been bought out in one swoop.  But I can't say I know what's really going on there.  

[FearlessF]

never had an option to sell back time to the company - I would have maxed that option every year

[betarhoalphadelta]

The accrued wasn’t tracked anywhere?

That second part makes sense in part as cover and in part that if useage is way, way low, you probably open yourself up to some level of lawsuit.

Sorry if I was unclear.

• When we were on an accrual system, it was tracked, of course. 
• When we moved to the "unlimited" system, they paid out everyone's accrued time as a lump sum but then PTO became completely untracked. It was a "as long as you and your manager agree, you're good." That persisted for several (maybe 5?) years.
• Now it's still the "unlimited" system, but it's tracked. 

I don't know that it's necessarily lawsuit fodder... I'm guessing that since this only applies to exempt employees, the legal system would say "well if you don't like it, quit!"

I do think our company actually cares about fostering a good culture. So tracking it can actually be a way to identify those employees who aren't taking enough, and trying to get them to avoid burnout (like I'm feeling right now lol). That said, I'm sure it's *also* a way for them to track who's taking too much--and a way to track ineffective or weak managers who maybe are granting too much. 

[bayareabadger]

Sorry if I was unclear.

• When we were on an accrual system, it was tracked, of course.
• When we moved to the "unlimited" system, they paid out everyone's accrued time as a lump sum but then PTO became completely untracked. It was a "as long as you and your manager agree, you're good." That persisted for several (maybe 5?) years.
• Now it's still the "unlimited" system, but it's tracked.

I don't know that it's necessarily lawsuit fodder... I'm guessing that since this only applies to exempt employees, the legal system would say "well if you don't like it, quit!"

I do think our company actually cares about fostering a good culture. So tracking it can actually be a way to identify those employees who aren't taking enough, and trying to get them to avoid burnout (like I'm feeling right now lol). That said, I'm sure it's *also* a way for them to track who's taking too much--and a way to track ineffective or weak managers who maybe are granting too much.

Ahhh, gotcha. Yeah, leaving it completely untracked seems like a poor idea from a running a company front. (Obviously our HR looks the other way in some spots, but they at least have mechanisms for it).

I was thinking there was some mechanism where one could sue if a company promised “unlimited” PTO and instead gave very limited PTO, but it appears that’s not the case. It is a little funny that “unlimited“ could actually mean none.

The burnout thing doesn’t make sense, especially since your artist working employees are most likely to get to that spot. I know as a manager, I reached out to HR and basically said, “what’s the number that someone could hit where you would call me about it?” they also helpfully took “unlimited“ out of the name.

(A friend of a friend had unlimited and was given an open-ended offer to do some work for a crazy rich guy. So they just took one week off per month at their old job until the old job got mad, and then they quit)

[bayareabadger]

never had an option to sell back time to the company - I would have maxed that option every year

I took a gamble one year that I was going to leave and banked all my vacation (it was also COVID, so they gave us some free time off when production was down.). My last day was Dec 26. 

[847badgerfan]

I had 7 weeks before I turned part-time.