OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread

[utee94]

8%? Dang, that’s some fine work.

Well they tend to make up for it by low-balling salaries, so don't be TOO impressed. 

[Cincydawg]

Pensions were a real issue for many private companies, they easily ended up underfunded if the market turned down, which is when the company was under pressure because of that.  Yes,there were "rules" of course, not so much for public pensions (which often turn into a real major issue).

Then folks started living longer as well over the decades.  The actuaries were having issues.

[utee94]

Anyway, I suppose the perception of boomers and older getting pensions, and the rest of us not getting them, might be a part of the source of consternation, but I don't think it's all THAT big, because as evidenced here, us youngers don't really understand what pensions really amounted to, anyway.

From the comments on this thread, and what I've seen and read in the past from those who are upset, it seems to be more about the perception of the attitude that boomers have, that they appear to lack compassion or empathy.

I suppose I see that, but I saw that in my grandparents' generation too.  They weren't condescending but they were absolutely no-nonsense and weren't going to put up with anything they felt didn't measure up to their expectations and values.

Like many other things stated on this thread, it's not unique to the boomers, it's more an inevitable effect of the generational gap.

[FearlessF]

From the comments on this thread, and what I've seen and read in the past from those who are upset, it seems to be more about the perception of the attitude that boomers have, that they appear to lack compassion or empathy.

Boomers didn't receive compassion or empathy

[Cincydawg]

I was accused of being apathetic but I don't really care.  I do feel sorry for folks who are empaths.

Compassion is for losers.

[bayareabadger]

Pensions were a real issue for many private companies, they easily ended up underfunded if the market turned down, which is when the company was under pressure because of that.  Yes,there were "rules" of course, not so much for public pensions (which often turn into a real major issue).

Then folks started living longer as well over the decades.  The actuaries were having issues.

Oh yeah, financially they’re pretty bad idea, and in time will be looked at as mostly a blip in our economics

[bayareabadger]

Boomers didn't receive compassion or empathy

No one does. 

[FearlessF]

compassion or empathy won't ward off credit card debt, or pay off your student loan, or pay for your doordash orders

[FearlessF]

No one does.

then why single out boomers?

[bayareabadger]

Anyway, I suppose the perception of boomers and older getting pensions, and the rest of us not getting them, might be a part of the source of consternation, but I don't think it's all THAT big, because as evidenced here, us youngers don't really understand what pensions really amounted to, anyway.

I think the understanding part is may be a bit overstated because that’s sort of the nature. You only really experience them when you’re older.

But I think the theoretical sense of security was what they amounted to. And if someone says “these other people got security for similar work, but you will not,” well, we know across society how some people feel when someone gets something they don’t.

A part of me wonders if a certian generation was bad at projecting what was hard about its general experience, in part due to a general fluffing of the postwar American experience. Maybe call it the “Leave it to Beaver” effect.

[betarhoalphadelta]

Don't get me wrong - it's a great pension. However, had they paid her more I think I could have done better with the investments than did the pension fund managers.

Speaking of pensions, ALL of the future ones need to go away. It's time.

Yup, how about taking away all the cheecky preferential writeoffs enjoyed by those making well north of the average income.And then a flat tax or sumsuch and while we're at it get rid of the overlords disguised as Lobbyists. You may shoot them if you wish but get them out the HELL outta there - that would make me happy. Specially the shooting part you can wing them if you like

I don't think it possible to eliminate lobbyists.  I had some minor interactions with one back in the day.  I thought he had a "real job" that didn't seem at all nefarious.

There aren't really many writeoffs now in the tax code for individuals.  You can of course write off losses and charitable donations if you itemize, but most folks now take the standard.  I recall keeping track of sales tax back in the day so I could write that off, it was a pain.

Anyone with $100 million and up doesn't need to pay any income tax ever, I'm not sure how that could be changed without an actual wealth tax.

Let's maybe dial back actual politics / policy? Even though nobody is crossing lines here, we know where it leads if not nipped in the bud, right?

[betarhoalphadelta]

Don't get me wrong - it's a great pension. However, had they paid her more I think I could have done better with the investments than did the pension fund managers.

Speaking of pensions, ALL of the future ones need to go away. It's time.

I think the real advantage of pensions wasn't that they were optimal retirement savings vehicles... It was that they were basically compulsory. 

There are a lot of downsides compared to 401k/IRA's actually. Pensions tend to lock you into a single employer for a long time. As you point out, you can often get better returns outside of pensions. 

But the problem is a lot of dumb people who prioritize spending instead of saving in their 20s and 30s, underfunding their retirement accounts. And then they get into their 40s and realize "oh shit I'm WAY behind on retirement!" and now they've forgone the two decades of compounding that they can never go back in time and get back. 

Ask my how I know. I'm doing a lot better now (due primarily to luck), but I've spent most of the last decade terrified that I wouldn't be able to afford to retire at the standard of living I want. As of 2016, I had a liquid net worth of zero--and illiquid was basically just my Jeep and some home furnishings.

That's the real problem that pensions solve. You can get richer investing--but you'll have peace of mind with a pension.

[utee94]

A part of me wonders if a certian generation was bad at projecting what was hard about its general experience, in part due to a general fluffing of the postwar American experience. Maybe call it the “Leave it to Beaver” effect.

Yup, could be some of that.

Also, I can't speak directly for boomers, but my parents and their parents,  just don't complain about things.  My dad grew up pretty poor in a tiny house that his dad built by hand, in a small town in West Texas.  He worked all sorts of manual labor jobs from the time he was 8 years old but he never ever complains about any of it.  And my grandfather was recruited to play baseball at Texas A&M but had to leave college and go back to the farm to pick cotton during the great depression.  

I know I was taught to be grateful and not to complain and I'm sure plenty of boomers were as well.

[Gigem]

Yup, could be some of that.

Also, I can't speak directly for boomers, but my parents and their parents,  just don't complain about things.  My dad grew up pretty poor in a tiny house that his dad built by hand, in a small town in West Texas.  He worked all sorts of manual labor jobs from the time he was 8 years old but he never ever complains about any of it.  And my grandfather was recruited to play baseball at Texas A&M but had to leave college and go back to the farm to pick cotton during the great depression. 

I know I was taught to be grateful and not to complain and I'm sure plenty of boomers were as well.

I asked my grandmother (both of them actually) about the great depression, she said they didn't know anything about it.  Apparently, they were already so poor, nothing changed for them.  

They didn't even get electricity at their home in Henderson, Tx until the late 1940's.