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Topic: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1918 on: Today at 03:10:18 PM »
A lot of holes can be blown into that article.
some good points- but still very general and not super factual.

We're talking in generalities. Generations span millions of people over 1+ decade, so it's always going to be difficult to give universal data. But the broad strokes are IMHO generally accurate.  

When the median home increased from 2-4x the median wage to 6-8x, it suggests that the Boomers had an easier time affording homes. When you look at the cost of education, it's pretty clear they had an advantage there. 

The pension point cuts both ways. Many younger generations are in dire positions relative to retirement savings compared to Boomers, and of course Boomers can call them stupid, or poor planners, or just not responsible. But of course for many of those Boomers, retirement saving wasn't optional, so it's not like they can substantiate the claim that they WOULD have been good at it in a way that later generations aren't. 

And some other things cut both ways. The cost of healthcare is a lot higher, but healthcare is MUCH better than it was 30 years ago. So you can argue that you're getting more/better care, so it going up as a percentage of income is justified. But it's still more expensive, which takes money away from things like being able to afford a house--a house that's twice as expensive as a percentage of income than it was for Boomers. 

I'd also factor in divorce as something that cuts both ways. Boomers were the last generation to overwhelmingly grow up in 2-parent nuclear family households. Divorce was stigmatized. Boomers then got married, and much more than previous generations, got divorced. Which has impacts on childhood outcomes. It also leads to reduced household sizes and more demand on real estate, when suddenly mom & dad need two houses to live in rather than one. 

I think it's hard to argue that the Boomers didn't have financial advantages in their generation that later generations do/did not. 

And contrary to your earlier post- I don't see any examples or evidence of Boomers taking credit for benefits they had or didn't create, or blaming following generations for issues they (boomers) created. 
I don't see them blaming later generations for the issues they created. I see them as dismissive and lacking empathy for those later generations. It's a matter of being tone deaf. 

Just like Badge--who I was originally replying to--called the offspring of Boomers and some GenX "lazy slugs", who don't "work hard, take risks and support society". 

To his credit he blamed the Boomer/GenX parents for coddling the children and letting them get this way. 

But it goes to a consistent attitude that I think we see from the older generation that the later ones are lazy, whiny, entitled, etc. And a complete lack of understanding that some of these complaints are actually warranted, about things in society that the Boomers themselves never had to face. 

Wildcat4E

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1919 on: Today at 03:12:02 PM »
94 just be grateful Elon isn't a 'Skers Grad/Fan The HPS would return in short order. And there'd be a reckoning with pretty much everyone :cheer:
That may not be a herring.  Maybe a Red Douchenozzle.

Who coined that HPS moniker, anyway?  I think it might have been me.  Memory fades.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1920 on: Today at 03:17:11 PM »
I don't see the problem.  Nothing should be off-limits.  That's childish.
It's off limits because people generally prove that they can't separate the argument from the person making it. Politics/religion can very quickly poison the well of a place where  we try to keep things amicable. Political/religious debate tends to bring out the worst in people. 

We allowed politics here for a while. Despite being an educated and generally well-behaved bunch, we essentially proved that we couldn't be trusted with it. It was making the experience here far worse. So we shut it back down. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1921 on: Today at 03:18:36 PM »
It's off limits because people generally prove that they can't separate the argument from the person making it. Politics/religion can very quickly poison the well of a place where  we try to keep things amicable. Political/religious debate tends to bring out the worst in people.

We allowed politics here for a while. Despite being an educated and generally well-behaved bunch, we essentially proved that we couldn't be trusted with it. It was making the experience here far worse. So we shut it back down.

aka people respond poorly to having their BS called out  :57:
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

847badgerfan

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1922 on: Today at 03:27:40 PM »
aka people respond poorly to having their BS called out  :57:
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1923 on: Today at 03:28:39 PM »

What do I believe based solely on faith?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1924 on: Today at 04:30:03 PM »
mirror mirror on the wall who is the fairest of them all??
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1925 on: Today at 04:31:00 PM »
I've had plenty of, um, discussions with people about various issues on line and in person.  My experience is that none of my arguments or data or information or links change any minds.  This is particularly true with data, I can point to an apparent fact backed up with replete sources and the other person will just disregard said fact, and/or get angry.  I find it ... interesting, a human condition, "we" don't want to be wrong or change our minds.

I only "engage" for ... well, entertainment these days, or just to see how another person will respond.  On line, they usually just disappear.

I dimly recall a very long running discussion between CWS I think and another poster long forgotten about religion, I think it was, maybe it was evolution.  Pages and pages, no one changed their position at all.

SFBadger96

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1926 on: Today at 04:44:03 PM »
There's a reason this thread is the Grumpy Old Man thread. The Grumpy Old Man has existed as long as people have existed. Here are some examples, in order (oldest to youngest); the youngest is more than 250 years ago, but I was struck by the comment about the changing modes of communication of the day, and how they corrupted the youth.

“[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances.

They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.”


“The beardless youth… does not foresee what is useful, squandering his money.”

“Our sires’ age was worse than our grandsires’. We, their sons, are more worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt.”

“Modern fashions seem to keep on growing more and more debased … The ordinary spoken language has also steadily coarsened. People used to say ‘raise the carriage shafts’ or ‘trim the lamp wick,’ but people today say ‘raise it’ or ‘trim it.’ When they should say, ‘Let the men of the palace staff stand forth!’ they say, ‘Torches! Let’s have some light!’”

“Youth were never more sawcie, yea never more savagely saucie . . . the ancient are scorned, the honourable are contemned, the magistrate is not dreaded.”

“… I find by sad Experience how the Towns and Streets are filled with lewd wicked Children, and many Children as they have played about the Streets have been heard to curse and swear and call one another Nick-names, and it would grieve ones Heart to hear what bawdy and filthy Communications proceeds from the Mouths of such…”

“Whither are the manly vigour and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fribbles can never have descended in a direct line from the heroes of Potiers and Agincourt…”

“The free access which many young people have to romances, novels, and plays has poisoned the mind and corrupted the morals of many a promising youth…”

https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/

I say blame the generation before, no matter which generation, as they reared the current generation of scallywags and degenerates who make up the current mass of wasted youth. Sure, we can blame the boomers as the Millennials' parents, but Gen X owns it for Gen Z.

Curse me if I ever start blaming the kids these days. They approach the world as they find it, and without any perspective. Not because this generation is worse than the last, but because children don't have enough experiences to develop a well-rounded perspective.

Also, I'm trying to figure out whether to be grumpy or amused at the turn this thread took after my ill-advised post. Pot officially stirred, and even after I disavowed it. I should make a mental note...

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1927 on: Today at 04:53:45 PM »
I think we humans dislike "other" generally, which itself is interesting.  We adopt sports teams to feel as if we're in a group.  We feel we're "from" a place, so anyone far outside that place is suspect (stereotypes).  We get educated (or not) and "other" is disreputable, or worse.  Older folks view younger folks with disdain, and vice versa.  Star Trek once had a show about it that was somewhat entertaining.

Mark Twain noted that travel is the enemy of prejudice, and I find that to be true.  


OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1928 on: Today at 05:15:52 PM »
maybe it was evolution.  Pages and pages, no one changed their position at all.
What position is there against evolution??  There's more evidence for it than there is for gravity, lol.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Honestbuckeye

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1929 on: Today at 05:22:28 PM »
There certainly can be some general tendencies of the "generations" but as has been said, it is far from absolute.

I was born at the end of the "boomer " years, so probably have many Gen X tendencies.  My folks were smack in the middle of the Silent Generation, whose main acknowledged trait was: hard work gets you through life.  But they in turn passed that to their children to some extent. 

As for pensions- many of the boomers had a pension. But that was the early boomers.  Late boomers (my age, born in 61) have none and have had to save for retirement for years. I know this from my job. 40 years of looking at loan applications and personal financial statements of folks of all ages and regions.  Of the folks in their 60s and early 70s now, I would guess less than 5% of them have a pension.  

And never have I seen boomers who didn't care greatly about the broader community, or "hoarded" their "wealth."

Those things are just garbage.  Kind of the opposite of the truth from what the data suggests and what I have seen.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Riffraft

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1930 on: Today at 05:46:08 PM »
Haven't read the last 4 pages. I will eventually. I am a baby boomer.  Raising 12 kids I had no money. I worked 3 jobs at time.  The last 7 years with no kids at home l maxed out all mine and my wife's 401ks and invested wisely. As such I can travel as I will. In the process of buying a condo on the beach.  Never denied my kids anything but didn't hand them everything.  Guess I am a selfish boomer actually spending what I and my wife worked hard for.

utee94

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1931 on: Today at 05:58:00 PM »
Haven't read the last 4 pages. I will eventually. I am a baby boomer.  Raising 12 kids I had no money. I worked 3 jobs at time.  The last 7 years with no kids at home l maxed out all mine and my wife's 401ks and invested wisely. As such I can travel as I will. In the process of buying a condo on the beach.  Never denied my kids anything but didn't hand them everything.  Guess I am a selfish boomer actually spending what I and my wife worked hard for.

You're a disgusting hoarder.  

 

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