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Topic: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread

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847badgerfan

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1862 on: Today at 11:43:15 AM »
Grumpy is not the word. 
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Wildcat4E

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1863 on: Today at 11:47:33 AM »
Direct correlation to the "Me" generation ignoring their kids "latch key", and divorcing en masse.

Cause and effect.  IMO.
My wife's parents in a nutshell, right there, born in '49 and '50.

Both very well off, and their entire lives have been about "me."

  

bayareabadger

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1864 on: Today at 11:55:39 AM »
Me: Man how did this page add that many pages that fast

/sees someone followed up on the generation thing

Me: Ahhh. Will avoid. 

bayareabadger

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1865 on: Today at 11:57:16 AM »
I started watching Miracle on Ice last night pretty late (for me).  We'd had friends over for dinner, and I had opened a bottle of Champagne and then a Napa red with dinner, so I figured I'd open one more bottle for me, late.  Watched the entire movie, one glass turned into two, then the bottle contents evaporated.  Now it really was late, and this morning I can feel some of the effects, not terrible, not terrific either.

Today is packing day for the trip. 
The real version of the scene where he makes them skate suicides is delightful. Although probably not something you would want to experience.

Wildcat4E

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1866 on: Today at 11:57:23 AM »
Me: Man how did this page add that many pages that fast

/sees someone followed up on the generation thing

Me: Ahhh. Will avoid.
Sorry, had the same problem...many pages ago.  Damn job.

CatsbyAZ

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1867 on: Today at 12:14:32 PM »
That's a crock.

Some Boomers (and GenX) are guilty for sure.

They coddled their offspring into being lazy slugs, sending them off to college for a garbage degree, then allowing them basement space as they try to figure out life, collect Pokeman cards and order Door dash.

This rather than inspire their kids to work hard, take risks and support society.

Big mistakes were made.


The older I get and look around at my fellow Millennials, the less I disagree with any of this.

(As a Millennial myself, I now look back on the confrontational style of fathering my Dad raised us brothers with and can appreciate it more than ever. His Judgement Day terms taught us responsibility, authority, and gave us a vision for the future.)

Notice the college comment is bold-ed; I want to make a point about how certain virtues get passed down and eventually corrupted through successive generations.

Millennials were raised by Boomers who were raised by the Greatest Generation (born roughly 1900 – 1929). Their value in home ownership and education, and specifically a college education, is a very pronounced throughline for all three generations.

After their service in WWII, the men of the Greatest Generation benefited immensely from the GI Bill of Rights (Servicemen's Readjustment Act) created in 1944. Title II of the GI Bill created the Tuition Assistance that allowed millions of WWII veterans to start college, many of whom became the first of their family line to graduate college. Title III created the low-interest home loans allowing WWII veterans to own homes. In tandem, both articles of the GI Bill created a Middle Class unprecedented in terms of size and wealth. By 1972, the American Middle Class was the wealthiest it would ever be. In my opinion, the GI Bill is the most successful social program ever passed into American Law.

Attaining a college education worked out very well for the Greatest Generation, so well that college education (and home ownership) was passed on as high virtue to their children, the Boomers. A college education also worked well for the Boomers, and in turn, Boomers likewise passed this on as a virtue to their Millennial children.

As separate Generations, we both grew up believing in College Education. To accommodate, the college system has since WWII expanded to accommodate anybody and everybody who takes up this belief, no matter a student’s lack of academic ambition or qualification. Quantity over quality has resulted in bogus degrees, bloating the post-graduate ranks, and indebting millions for decades. Too many Millennials are now burned by the very education system that they were raised to believe in, and we’re grumpy about it.




FearlessF

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1868 on: Today at 12:18:45 PM »
yup, blame the universities for printing degrees for profit and the lenders for handing out loans for profit
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

847badgerfan

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1869 on: Today at 12:23:24 PM »
My parents were of the Silent Generation.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1870 on: Today at 12:34:31 PM »
I'm at the end of the boomers - born 1962

my parents had it better than my grandparents
I had it better than my parents
my daughters had it better than I did
I'm not convinced young people today have it worse than any other generation
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Wildcat4E

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1871 on: Today at 12:53:23 PM »
I'm at the end of the boomers - born 1962

my parents had it better than my grandparents
I had it better than my parents
my daughters had it better than I did
I'm not convinced young people today have it worse than any other generation
I am glad college didn't cost for me what it has for my kids, (the 4K/yr my Greatest Generation Granparents floated to me, along with a $1000 State Scholar check, and my sweating my ass off summer job equaled no debt for the 4 yr degree.  Then, I was able to buy a home for 5 figures.  And it wasn't a refrigerator box in the hood.

None of that exists today, so it's hard for me to argue they have it better than I did.  


MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1872 on: Today at 12:57:11 PM »
My wife's parents in a nutshell, right there, born in '49 and '50.

Both very well off, and their entire lives have been about "me."

 


So, on Boomers, and what little political discourse we're allowing here.....

My Boomer parents are doing "okay," but not "well off" by most definitions.  Dad could be in better shape, partly due to some things in life he could've done differently but made choices that he has to live with, and partly because a couple of things were done to him through no fault of his own, that he nevertheless bears the consequences for.  As it is, he worked hard, always provided for me and my sister, though he has a very modest retirement to show for it.  Mom worked hard, the last 20 years or so of her career for the state.  Has a stable retirement because of that, though not a lucrative one.  Her husband is almost certain to die before her, if I had to guess from his present health, and that will change her situation.  His daughters will get the house and the bulk of his assets.  

My FIL is a Boomer and has been very successful.  Semi-retired, but not really, because as far as I can tell, he likes working too much to retire.  He built up some kind of shipping logistics business, turned a lot of the business over to one of his partners and other aspects to a hand-picked protege, but he continues to work from home for them 3 or 4 days a week.  

Mom/dad and my FIL are on very different ends of a political and ideological spectrum.  They would not agree on many things related to government or its role.  Not sure they would agree on the abstract discussion we're having about Boomers.  

But all three of them worked extremely hard, did all they could to provide for their kids, and are generous, possibly to a fault.  I've lived my entire life watching my parents help other people within their reach, even when it came at personal cost.  When I say my folks are not wealthy, believe me.  But that never stopped them from helping people if it was mathematically possible.  And often times their help came not in financial help, but in offering other services.  Mom will drop everything to be there for people in a variety of ways.  Dad is an excellent carpenter and has donated tons of man-hours and cost of supplies, helping people with home repairs who couldn't otherwise afford it.  Though I also have lost track of the ways they've given money, when people truly needed it.  It would probably be small beans to many, but for the people it helped, it was everything, and it wasn't exactly chump change to them either.  

And I've known my FIL now plenty long enough to have witnessed his generosity.  He built a business over years and created jobs for many people for decades.  So he has a lot of money (I perceive).....big deal.  He took risks, he provided a service people either wanted or needed, he created income and even wealth for other people.  And he helps a lot of people, from what I gather.  Every several years he gives a chunk of cash to each of his three kids because he feels like it.  Unlike my parents, he's made a lot of money (or at least managed to keep more of it), and undoubtedly has a very different voting record than either of them.  Yet, like them, he is a giver, and from what I can tell from afar, similarly strives to help those he can reach. 

I don't see any of them as "me" people.  They're not selfish, and they certainly aren't unconcerned about Gen X, Z, or Alpha.  They have different ideas on the best way to make things better, and have quite different track records of voting on account of it.  But fundamentally, they want the same things.  I know they're far from the only ones.  So I think it's simplistic and dull to think Boomers don't care, don't help anything, and are just "me" people.  I know you didn't say that, but it seems to be a popular thought out there.  And not one I find particularly credible.  

In the ways Boomers "failed," the full story, as usual, is nuanced, complex, and replete with cause, effect, unforeseen consequences, some bad ideas here and there, people being mislead, bad apples in the bunch, inability to perfectly predict the future.....i.e., all the things we see with every generation.  I think the circumstances and technology of the world they grew up in and inherited were different than anything previous, far more than I think the Boomers themselves were greatly different than previous generations.  

IMHO.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1873 on: Today at 01:06:19 PM »
I think the annoyance is with takes like this one.

What OAM is pointing out is that Boomers were the beneficiary of a lot of demographic and historical advantages, which they didn't cause but are more than happy to take credit for. And then they're dismissive of those who came after them when those advantages have evaporated, acting like every generation behind them has struggles because they just didn't work as hard.

I think it gets a little hyperbolic when people start talking about thinks like "intergenerational theft", because it's not like the Boomers were doing anything wrong, malicious, or illegal. But it's not silly to highlight that they grew up in a different time than other generations, benefited from it, and that some of their actions and government policies that they voted for have made things harder for those who came later.

Thanks for not being badge or HB.  Actually looking at it and not just blindly dismissing it because you don't like it.  

The intergenerational theft part is akin to those immigrants who got in and strongly support closing the border behind them.  I got mine, fuck you all who haven't.
It's very fair to specify how boomers had advantages but don't understand how they've evaporated over time and then treat every succeeding generation as lazy.
But I'd argue the "hyperbolic" part isn't so, because like no other generation before them, the boomers have actively and purposely closed the door behind them - it wasn't just a natural, innocent progression of circumstance.  They got "smart" about influencing policy.  They got the turbo-boost of CU.  

Admittedly, part of it is that people can live longer and/or able to live actively deeper into their lives.  That was an inevitability with the boomer bulge of population.  But they've really taken advantage of it.  Instead of the natural/previous downturn arc of late life meaning you do less/retire and give way to the next generation, boomers have held fast and clung tightly to the reigns of power/wealth. 
But again, fault can be assessed of their proactive me me me attitude when it comes to money.  Somewhere along the way, ethics gave way to dollars.  Not for each individual (OF COURSE), but for so many of the power brokers, money is the #1 priority.  Now sure, in our society, money is reeeeally important, but it was never the #1 priority for bulk of upper class (insert 'yeah, but' Carnegie/Rockefeller sample size here).  Maybe it's just a feeling and not the actuality, but in the past, ethics would give way to incremental financial gain...maybe because it was the right thing and maybe because of a pushback from the masses. 
But enough boomers in power/great wealth have realized they can say 'fuck the masses' because they don't have any actual power.  Enough entities have consolidated and enough corporations dominate their specific industries that the masses don't really have a way to fight back.  And boomers have actively worked to make that even more true. 
It's never enough.  Boomers are financial hoarders.  It's a sickness.  Millionaire...not enough.  Billionaire...not enough.  We're going to have our first trillionaire soon....not enough.  And these people treat taxes like ebola.  Taxes.  The money all of us normal people pay because we have actual traditional jobs.  Like saps.
Again, you don't have to say they're evil or selfish - maybe everyone would do the same in their same situation.  But to deny the numbers and facts isn't really helpful, either.  To ignore it is...cowardly.  We can say this situation is happening without demonizing them or putting our heads in the sand.  One thing this group is poor at, myself included, is avoiding one end of the spectrum or the other.  We all know most of the truth lies in the middle, but we still fall into the 'yeah huh' vs 'nuh uh' back-and-forth.

Have boomers clung onto their wealth and set things up to keep it?  Yes.  Have previous generations done that?  Maybe, but not to this extreme.  If you want to be super courteous, you could just say they're the best at it.  Cool.  That doesn't help all of the generations after them, though.  Doesn't help a young couple get a starter house that doesn't exist anymore.  Doesn't help the purple district that has been gerrymandered.  

But let's not put our heads in the sand, as some here automatically do when there's any criticism of boomers, the military, or the president (either party).
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1874 on: Today at 01:08:01 PM »
I'm at the end of the boomers - born 1962

my parents had it better than my grandparents
I had it better than my parents
my daughters had it better than I did
I'm not convinced young people today have it worse than any other generation
This hurts my brain.
You are a sample size of one, man.  Jesus.  Open your eyes.  Yes, the data of the tens of millions supercedes your data of one.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

utee94

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Re: OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread
« Reply #1875 on: Today at 01:10:33 PM »
We have our first trillionaire.  He's not a boomer.


 

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