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Topic: OSU and reality

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #98 on: October 29, 2019, 11:19:06 AM »
Nowadays Yuengling's popularity here is WAY down for political reasons.
Wait, what?  I know nothing of this, just curious?

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #99 on: October 29, 2019, 11:27:50 AM »
Beer and politics shouldn't be mixed
Yeah... Just look at Founder's. 

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #100 on: October 29, 2019, 11:35:11 AM »
Wait, what?  I know nothing of this, just curious?
The owner publicly came out and supported Trump.  Penn State fans are college educated and the big drinkers are millennials. Neither is exactly a hot demographic for Trump supporters. 

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #101 on: October 29, 2019, 11:36:23 AM »
Moving on to the non-quantifible part. I think this is interesting because it's not at all unique to Urbs. Fans across the country assume their coach loves their not great QB to a fault. It's pretty common. At a point, we must ask, are all these coaches watching hours of practice films and misjudging all of it (maybe), or are fans by and large built to believe what they've hardly seen is better than what they often see? This is not to say it's 100 percent one way or the other, only that this common feeling might be endemic in the kind of optimism we see in ourselves.
Agreed... We were seeing it just this year with Sindelar at Purdue, especially after Brohm seemed to prefer Sindelar to Blough two years in a row, only to see Blough take the reins strongly when he got the starter role.

But even this year, there were people thinking that Sindelar was never going to be worthwhile and that Brohm should just start developing Plummer. Might as well build for the future, right? 

And of course we see what happens. Plummer comes in and has games he looks great [not that this is hard against Maryland], and games [Illinois] where he's benched for a walk-on because he looks terrible. Not that I agreed with the decision to bench him, but he DID look terrible. 

I find it hard to believe that all these coaches are so doe-eyed in love with a certain QB that they lose all objectivity. 

That said, I do think that some of the coaches tend to be very risk-averse. They worry that if they bench the starter and the backup fails, they get the blame. But if they stick with the starter, nobody knows whether the backup would have succeeded in their place, so nobody has in-game evidence on which to base their criticism. 

This is somewhat changing with the transfer portal, as we see in this thread. Guys who would have been career backups--even if they might be better than the starter--now jump ship and go to other schools. If they flourish at the other school, the coach who had them riding pine looks wrong. But I think that's flawed logic. When you jump from one offensive system, offensive coordinator, blocking scheme/talent, RB/receiving talent, etc to another, on top of changes to culture, changes to team chemistry, etc... It's not apples-to-apples.

But I agree... Fans always seem to think they know more than the coach in calling for the backup QB, and in some cases, maybe they're right. In a lot of cases, however, they're working on such incomplete information relative to the coaching staff that they're probably only right about twice a day. 

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #102 on: October 29, 2019, 12:54:43 PM »
We'll start at the top. Do you feel RS freshman Burrow was better than RS junior Burrow? Simple question, but it stay a lot about setting the table.

Moving on to the non-quantifible part. I think this is interesting because it's not at all unique to Urbs. Fans across the country assume their coach loves their not great QB to a fault. It's pretty common. At a point, we must ask, are all these coaches watching hours of practice films and misjudging all of it (maybe), or are fans by and large built to believe what they've hardly seen is better than what they often see? This is not to say it's 100 percent one way or the other, only that this common feeling might be endemic in the kind of optimism we see in ourselves.

The Schiano thing speaks to another sort of splintered perspective. You're saying the coach would've addressed it early on. I assume you mean early last season, maybe after the suspension? Because here's the thing. You know who built the two best OSU defenses in the Urbs era? That'd be Schiano. His first two were better than Ash's, notably better. Should he have been fired after doing that back-to-back years? Or are we prisoners of rather emotional moments.

(Also worth noting, the new OSU DC was demoted by Michigan, basically passed over twice, and now has this. Maybe it's just the odd nature of CFB at play?)

The larger point is this, it's one of entitlement. OSU fans assume these are 15-0 teams and it is incumbent upon the coaches not to mismanage them down to only playoff teams. There is no thought that it's hard to be that good, that consistently contending, that there's an easy fix if only some young player were handed the job without putting in the work. We ignore the oddity of the sport, the fact almost no one goes undefeated and only one team wins each season. Perhaps the earlier part is how sports should be and really is, but I remain skeptical.
I'm not saying that Meyer was right or wrong. All I am saying that as fans that only get to see what is presented to us during games (and the spring scrimmage), it is frustrating to have watched JT arm punt throws for 3 1/2 years to wide open receivers and then see Burrow show up at LSU and put himself in Heisman contention. And it seems to all go back to Meyer's loyalty to certain players and coaches. 

But I admit, it is hard to argue with the success that Meyer had. And you are correct, I was not at practice or the team meetings and have no idea what each of these players looked like outside of game days.

But I also know that Meyer is truly sold on the running aspect of the QB position almost at the expense of being a capable passer. And what is really frustrating is seeing that Burrow is capable of doing both rather effectively. He is not quite the runner that JT was, but is a much better runner than Haskins was. Conversely, Haskins probably threw a better ball than Burrow, but Burrow definitely threw the ball far better on his worst day than JT did on his best. And there are a few games (Iowa and Oklahoma come to mind) where if JT could have hit some downfield throws, the running game would have opened up quite a bit. 

FearlessF

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #103 on: October 29, 2019, 01:08:42 PM »
The owner publicly came out and supported Trump.  Penn State fans are college educated and the big drinkers are millennials. Neither is exactly a hot demographic for Trump supporters.
hah, I'm not drinking crappy bear because someone supports one politician or another

I'm not drinking Busch Light because some good Iowan is raising money for a good cause.

I drink what I like.  Even if Utee is not impressed.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #104 on: October 29, 2019, 01:09:56 PM »
The Schiano thing speaks to another sort of splintered perspective. You're saying the coach would've addressed it early on. I assume you mean early last season, maybe after the suspension? Because here's the thing. You know who built the two best OSU defenses in the Urbs era? That'd be Schiano. His first two were better than Ash's, notably better. Should he have been fired after doing that back-to-back years? Or are we prisoners of rather emotional moments.

(Also worth noting, the new OSU DC was demoted by Michigan, basically passed over twice, and now has this. Maybe it's just the odd nature of CFB at play?)

The larger point is this, it's one of entitlement. OSU fans assume these are 15-0 teams and it is incumbent upon the coaches not to mismanage them down to only playoff teams. There is no thought that it's hard to be that good, that consistently contending, that there's an easy fix if only some young player were handed the job without putting in the work. We ignore the oddity of the sport, the fact almost no one goes undefeated and only one team wins each season. Perhaps the earlier part is how sports should be and really is, but I remain skeptical.
As to the Schiano thing, I was using this as an example of Meyer's loyalty. Last season when the defense was giving up chunk plays to EVERY TEAM THEY PLAYED (even Oregon St), there should have been a "Come to Jesus" moment between Meyer and Schiano. (The first thing I would have done is told him that he cannot play exclusive man to man coverage as half the defense was playing with their backs to the ball).

Did that happen? I don't know, but I do know that things never got better. I truly believe that Meyer gave Schiano too much freedom to leave it alone and hope it got better. I also believe that had Meyer come back this year, Schiano would have been welcomed back with open arms. 

As for the Entitlement aspect, maybe OSU fans do feel that way. But when you break down last season for what it was, it becomes quite apparent that the coaching staff let this team down. Sure they went 13-1 last year, but that defensive performance kept them out of the playoffs. And Almost all of the same players are back this year. A defense that was ranking outside the Top 50 in the country, is now arguably one of the best in the country. THAT is on the coaches last year.

And sure we expect our team to go undefeated every year. When they recruit the way they have, why shouldn't we? But there is a difference between matching up to a team with close to equal talent and just having a bad game and getting blown off the field by a clearly inferior team. And when the reason for that had been apparent all season long and the HC does nothing about it, you bet it frustrates the fans. 

847badgerfan

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #105 on: October 29, 2019, 01:14:24 PM »
The owner publicly came out and supported Trump.  Penn State fans are college educated and the big drinkers are millennials. Neither is exactly a hot demographic for Trump supporters.

This talk stops now.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

FearlessF

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #106 on: October 29, 2019, 01:34:19 PM »
so the non-college educated in the state root for Pitt?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #107 on: October 29, 2019, 01:42:55 PM »
It's not frequent that you have two first round draft picks as backup QBs
Cardale Jones was a first round draft pick in name only.  How's that working out?


Oh, and NFLness has little to do with college greatness.  Barrett had an all-time great career, and maybe when he's 50-60 years old, he'll get his due.  But the way he's treated by OSU people is sad.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Honestbuckeye

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #108 on: October 29, 2019, 01:57:41 PM »
Cardale Jones was a first round draft pick in name only.  How's that working out?


Oh, and NFLness has little to do with college greatness.  Barrett had an all-time great career, and maybe when he's 50-60 years old, he'll get his due.  But the way he's treated by OSU people is sad.
Amen.    
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Cincydawg

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #109 on: October 29, 2019, 01:59:27 PM »
This year's Buckeye team is the best one I've seen since probably 1998.

Maybe there is a lesson there somewhere.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #110 on: October 29, 2019, 02:27:12 PM »
Cardale Jones was a first round draft pick in name only.  How's that working out?


Oh, and NFLness has little to do with college greatness.  Barrett had an all-time great career, and maybe when he's 50-60 years old, he'll get his due.  But the way he's treated by OSU people is sad.
You always do this. One poster says something, then you attribute it to all OSU fans or all Big Ten fans. Asinine.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OSU and reality
« Reply #111 on: October 29, 2019, 02:29:28 PM »
You always do this. One poster says something, then you attribute it to all OSU fans or all Big Ten fans. Asinine.

All OSU fans do this.

 

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