Michigan 2017 Season Thread

[CatsbyAZ]

I think Harbaugh is in the same place Franklin was a couple years back when he had to rehaul his offensive coaching staff and went out and got Moorehead. This off-season is going to be absolutely pivotal to Harbaugh's future at Michigan. If he doesn't make that sort of sweeping change, not sure he'll last the long haul.

Excellent and enlightening comparison of the situation Harbaugh is currently facing on offense.
I have zero doubt Harbaugh will weather through and, if anything, this temporary stay on monster expectations might help why he lasts long term. One good thing about these last two losses is the quieting of the radio fodder constantly spouting for speculation sake "Harbaugh to the Indianapolis Colts (because Andrew Luck!)" or "Harbaugh to the Chicago Bears (because they drafted him!") Let a few "rough" years at Michigan kill off the constant NFL static.

[Mdot21]

Excellent and enlightening comparison of the situation Harbaugh is currently facing on offense.
I have zero doubt Harbaugh will weather through and, if anything, this temporary stay on monster expectations might help why he lasts long term. One good thing about these last two losses is the quieting of the radio fodder constantly spouting for speculation sake "Harbaugh to the Indianapolis Colts (because Andrew Luck!)" or "Harbaugh to the Chicago Bears (because they drafted him!") Let a few "rough" years at Michigan kill off the constant NFL static.

I never bought those two NFL rumors. The Bears just aren't going to pony up the kind of massive money package it'd take to get him there and Harbaugh isn't going to go work for someone like Jim Irsay despite who the QB is. I don't have doubts that NFL teams will still try to come after him though. He's a proven NFL coach, and really despite his flaws he is a hell of a head football coach. I don't think the Harbaugh to NFL static will ever really die. I think his schemes and style of offense probably fit best in the NFL to be honest. They just seem way too intricate and complex for most college kids who aren't able to spend 100% of their time on football and they seem way too dependent on talent. Not always going to have great talent in college every year. Especially at QB. I really think the college game is tailor made for more simple, wide open, up tempo, spread offenses. The wide open spread style offenses have become the great talent equalizer and they are pretty simple offenses for young players- especially QB's to pick up and learn quickly. If you want to run an NFL offense- you better have NFL level QB's. And he doesn't. Closest thing he had was Rudock for that one year.

For all the talk of "this is a meritocracy" Harbaugh is employing one of his best friends as OC- and paying him $1 million a year in Drevno- a guy that probably isn't really qualified for that job considering he'd only ever been an OL coach in his 25+ year coaching career. And he's certainly not worth the $1 million they are paying him. IF you're paying an OC that much it's because you have to- you're trying to keep him off the market and from other teams from poaching. Well, no one is poaching Tim Drevno to be their OC. Ever. Ditto Pep Hamilton- a guy who was a failed NFL OC at Indianapolis and Cleveland. He is being paid $1 million a year to be the "passing game co-ordinator". Nobody is going to try and snatch him up to be their OC and pay him that kind of money. Pep goes back with Harbaugh to Stanford- he was one of the first hires Jim made when he got the Stanford job. And let's not forget Jim's son Jay. He's a heck of a recruiter, but he had never been a full-time coach anywhere and he just basically stepped into one of the best assistant coaching jobs as a 25 year old kid because his dad got hired at Michigan. All that talk of "meritocracy" - well sure seems like he takes care of his own.

I have my doubts about Harbaugh. He certainly can recruit, he's certainly a great head coach, and he certainly knows how to build a defensive staff and let them do their thing. But I think his ego just might be way too big to make the changes on offense and his hands might be too involved on offense for him to want to give up some of that control.

Not getting off to a great start today, as Harbaugh has said today that O'Korn will be the starter for the Rutgers game. Which makes no sense to me at all. Perfect time to get the frosh Peters some real playing time at home against a B1G opponent. I think Franklin didn't have the kind of pull Harbaugh does at Michigan to tell people trying to get into his ear to shove off, and honestly as big as Franklin's ego is- not sure anybody in CFB has an ego as big as Harbaugh's.

[GopherRock]

The 93rd Little Brown Jug will be contested under the Musco sun on November 4, at 730PM EST. 

Yours truly will be there.

[Temp430]

This was always going to be a rebuilding year given all the new personnel on defense, OL, and WR.  When the defense played better than anticipated expectations of many increased, myself included.   I think Michigan is playing about as well as can be expected given the youth and injuries.  The Penn State game was a frustrating reality check for sure that apparently hasn't sunk in yet for some calling for coach firings and starting a red-shirt freshman at QB over the coaching staff's better judgement.  The remainder of the season is going to be a dog fight.  There's not a sure win remaining on the schedule, Rutgers included.

[Temp430]

Michigan QB Speight may return by the Wisconsin game.

Speight on the Mend

[Mdot21]

Michigan QB Speight may return by the Wisconsin game.

Speight on the Mend

Glad he's healthy and the injury wasn't career threatening. But this news is kinda just meh to me. As up and down as O'Korn is play to play, not like Speight was lighting the world on fire. I really don't think he'll make much difference. There are way too many flaws with the offense and play-calling/staff.

[MaximumSam]

Fun game I saw on MGoBlog.  What is Michigan's best win?

Florida?
Air Force?
Cincinnati?
Purdue?
Rutgers?
Indiana?

[CatsbyAZ]

This was always going to be a rebuilding year given all the new personnel on defense, OL, and WR.  When the defense played better than anticipated expectations of many increased, myself included. I think Michigan is playing about as well as can be expected given the youth and injuries.  The Penn State game was a frustrating reality check for sure that apparently hasn't sunk in yet for some calling for coach firings and starting a red-shirt freshman at QB over the coaching staff's better judgement.  The remainder of the season is going to be a dog fight.  There's not a sure win remaining on the schedule, Rutgers included.

This is only a rebuilding year AT QUARTERBACK.

For anyone following Michigan closely enough, it was never a surprise to see the defense play top 10 nationally. Maybe it happened faster than expected, but as for returning only 2 starters, a lot of this season's new starters were known contributors last year. Rashon Gary, Devin Bush, and Noah Furbush didn't even count as returning starters in most of the preseason mags.

As for the OL, there are 22 OL competing on the roster, with Mason Cole and Bredesen anchoring the line for good rotation at the other three spots. No surprise they are dominant when motivated.

And IMO the WRs are partly held back by ineffective quarterbacking.

Point is its misleading to explain away this season's disappointments as a rebuilding year. The roster is loaded save for one glaring eye sore.

[HailHailMSP]

This is only a rebuilding year AT QUARTERBACK.

For anyone following Michigan closely enough, it was never a surprise to see the defense play top 10 nationally. Maybe it happened faster than expected, but as for returning only 2 starters, a lot of this season's new starters were known contributors last year. Rashon Gary, Devin Bush, and Noah Furbush didn't even count as returning starters in most of the preseason mags.

As for the OL, there are 22 OL competing on the roster, with Mason Cole and Bredesen anchoring the line for good rotation at the other three spots. No surprise they are dominant when motivated.

And IMO the WRs are partly held back by ineffective quarterbacking.

Point is its misleading to explain away this season's disappointments as a rebuilding year. The roster is loaded save for one glaring eye sore.

They weren't listed because they legitimately were not starters. I don't think there are any excuses being made, but this is one of the 2-3 youngest teams in FBS this year. An entire defensive starting lineup gets swapped out. 
Penn State went about as expected to me. They were walking into a buzzsaw there, especially given the QB situation. The Sparty game at home was inexcusable. 
Going into the season, I had five games circled. 2 as probable, but closely contested ( Florida, Sparty) and 3 as very difficult (Penn State , Wisconsin, and Ohio State). My expectations for this season rounded out like this:
1 loss or less: Beyond expectations
2-3 losses: Meets expectations
4 or > losses: Below expectations. 
We'll have to see what happens in the final slate of games to see where they end up. 

[Mdot21]

This is only a rebuilding year AT QUARTERBACK.

For anyone following Michigan closely enough, it was never a surprise to see the defense play top 10 nationally. Maybe it happened faster than expected, but as for returning only 2 starters, a lot of this season's new starters were known contributors last year. Rashon Gary, Devin Bush, and Noah Furbush didn't even count as returning starters in most of the preseason mags.

As for the OL, there are 22 OL competing on the roster, with Mason Cole and Bredesen anchoring the line for good rotation at the other three spots. No surprise they are dominant when motivated.

And IMO the WRs are partly held back by ineffective quarterbacking.

Point is its misleading to explain away this season's disappointments as a rebuilding year. The roster is loaded save for one glaring eye sore.

Not sure I can agree. They lost A LOT of guys to the NFL. 11 were drafted, 8 on defense. And not just good players but some truly GREAT players like Jourdan Lewis and Ryan Glasgow. And they replaced most of those guys with young players in their 1st or 2nd year. Bush and Gary are really good, but still they are only true sophomores. Same thing with CB's David Long and LaVert Hill. All of those guys can get A LOT better than they are. None of them are as consistent as they should be. When Gary and Hill are playing at their very best- not sure there are better players at their positions in the conference. Gary goes for lapses where he's just kinda going through the motions. When he's pissed off though and he's visibly playing angry- he is as destructive a force at defensive line as I've ever seen. He needs to bring it every single time out like Mo Hurst. The hype on Hill being the next Jourdan Lewis- turns out might not be all hype. He is sticky as hell in man coverage. I expected Michigan to have a solid D, but I didn't expect them to be as good as they are. I think they are actually ahead of schedule on defense. Look at their second wave of DL's. DE Kwity Paye and DT Aubrey Solomon are true frosh. Everyone on that entire defense returns next season except for Mo Hurst and Mike McCray. Hurst is going to hurt, not sure there's a better interior DL in the country. McCray is an average player and he's a liability in pass coverage, losing him won't sting like losing Hurst. But that's it- those two are gone and everyone else is back. I have a feeling Ambry Thomas is going to make a jump at CB next year similar to the one Hill has made from year 1 to year 2. Their CB's could be downright filthy if that happens.

As far as the offense goes- the line has been a mess. They lost 3 guys to graduation in Kalis, Magnunson, and Braden. Grant Newsome should be the starting LT and he's basically had to take half of last season and all of this season as an injury redshirt because of that gruesome leg injury against Wisconsin. If he's able to come back in 2018 anywhere close to what he was before the injury- that changes the dynamic of the offense greatly. And Logan Tulley Tilman should be the starting RT right now. He got kicked off the team. It's hard to lose all that experience and talent at OL and try to field a good OL. Michigan is struggling right now at the tackle positions. That's not an easy fix. And they lost their entire pass catching offense from 2016 with Chesson, Darboh, and Butt all drafted by the NFL. Tarik Black, Nico Collins, and Donovan Peoples-Jones are true frosh. Black was the most polished but he got hurt. The other WR options were sophomore Dylan Crawford and Eddie McDoom- both guys who should've been redshirted and were great athletes but complete projects at WR coming out of high school. The only guy they've been able to rely on consistently at WR is Grant Perry who is a junior. Perry is a solid player. He'll be an undrafted free agent some day. But he's not a WR you can build an offense around.

[Mdot21]

Don't remember where it was talked about so I'll just throw it here...

Georgia 247 "insider" "mod" Rusty Mansall said Jacob Eason is basically gone. The job is Fromm's and he's Kirby's guy, whereas Eason was Richt's guy who Kirby was able to talk into sticking around. Mansall said Eason is looking at two schools right now. One of those schools? Michigan. Would be kinda crazy if it happened. Eason was Harbaugh's first choice at QB that year. Couldn't get him so that's why he moved on to Peters.

[CatsbyAZ]

Someone talk me out of letting these next two games Vs #5 Wisconsin & Vs #9 Ohio State define for me whether Harbaugh is a higher paid Lloyd Carr.

I remember it was December 26th 2004 and I was driving my kid brothers from St Louis to their Dad's in Minneapolis. We were halfway there, crossing over an ice sheet known at that time of year as Iowa. Closer to Des Moines our radio signal picked up the Hawkeyes flagship station and one of the featured segments for the local morning guys was aired at every commercial break as advertisement for their AM show. The featured segment that we heard about 9 times before getting north out of the station's reach was a long rant about how "Michigan gets to go 0-2 and go to the Rose Bowl. It doesn't matter if you cream everybody else when you lose to the two name teams on your schedule - Notre Dame and Ohio State."

Obviously they were mad Iowa didn't get the Rose Bowl that year (a 10-2 Hawkeye squad Lloyd beat that year), but to remember their rant, is anything different with Harbaugh? Minus the sympathy Rose Bowls? Losing to Ohio St every year, beating MSU only when they're 3-9, getting blown out by Penn State. Harbaugh's best win is a completely offense-less game against Wisconsin last year. And the excuses - I keep hearing this is a rebuilding year across the roster when it's so clearly misses the point that the QB position is what's holding everything back. The "young" defense ranks 3rd in the nation in Total Defense. They don't need the rebuilding excuse. How does the coach who played QB in the NFL have zero luck stabilizing the position? And I think the post-NFL Harbaugh is stipped of his sense of knowing when and when not to be aggressive on offense. I'm still pissed about netting only 5 or 6 total yards in 4th quarter against the Buckeyes last season.

I keep hearing the experts talk about this weekend's Wisconsin game as if the pressure is on the Badgers. Yes, but looking beyond this season I think the pressure is all on Harbaugh.

[Mdot21]

Someone talk me out of letting these next two games Vs #5 Wisconsin & Vs #9 Ohio State define for me whether Harbaugh is a higher paid Lloyd Carr.

I remember it was December 26th 2004 and I was driving my kid brothers from St Louis to their Dad's in Minneapolis. We were halfway there, crossing over an ice sheet known at that time of year as Iowa. Closer to Des Moines our radio signal picked up the Hawkeyes flagship station and one of the featured segments for the local morning guys was aired at every commercial break as advertisement for their AM show. The featured segment that we heard about 9 times before getting north out of the station's reach was a long rant about how "Michigan gets to go 0-2 and go to the Rose Bowl. It doesn't matter if you cream everybody else when you lose to the two name teams on your schedule - Notre Dame and Ohio State."

Obviously they were mad Iowa didn't get the Rose Bowl that year (a 10-2 Hawkeye squad Lloyd beat that year), but to remember their rant, is anything different with Harbaugh? Minus the sympathy Rose Bowls? Losing to Ohio St every year, beating MSU only when they're 3-9, getting blown out by Penn State. Harbaugh's best win is a completely offense-less game against Wisconsin last year. And the excuses - I keep hearing this is a rebuilding year across the roster when it's so clearly misses the point that the QB position is what's holding everything back. The "young" defense ranks 3rd in the nation in Total Defense. They don't need the rebuilding excuse. How does the coach who played QB in the NFL have zero luck stabilizing the position? And I think the post-NFL Harbaugh is stipped of his sense of knowing when and when not to be aggressive on offense. I'm still pissed about netting only 5 or 6 total yards in 4th quarter against the Buckeyes last season.

I keep hearing the experts talk about this weekend's Wisconsin game as if the pressure is on the Badgers. Yes, but looking beyond this season I think the pressure is all on Harbaugh.

Uhh...what? Michigan went to the Rose Bowl in 2004 because they WON the Big Ten. They had the h2h tie-breaker over Iowa, as they punked Iowa that year 30-17. Michigan barely lost to Notre Dame on the road in the 2nd game of the year in what was a true freshman QB Chad Henne's first ever road start. Mike Hart didn't even play in that game either. He was the back-up RB to David Underwood that game and he had maybe 3-4 carries. He didn't become the starter until the 4th game of that season. Michigan might've won that game had Mike Hart been the starter from Day 1. Yeah they lose to Ohio State in Columbus that year. Henne was a true frosh who struggled in that environment, and it's no secret that Tressel had Lloyd's number.

I'm sorry, but that is all some non-sense IMO. Harbaugh has done a pretty good job, all things considered. I see you're giving him zero credit for laying the smack down to B1G champs Penn State last year and beating them by 40? They get the correct call on that spot, game is over and they beat Ohio State in Columbus last year. Something they haven't done since 2000 when Drew Henson was the starting QB. Not to mention their starting QB was playing that game with a broken collarbone and threw 2 pick 6's- really the reason why Ohio State won that game was Speight giving them 14 points. Took a miracle for MSU to beat them in 2015. They're an 11-2 team his first year if they just execute a simple punt with 8 seconds left in the game.

I think the guy has done a terrific job. Had some pretty bad luck in big moments. Can't win them all. I remember when EVERYONE used to blow out Michigan and they'd lose games to teams like Rutgers and Toledo when Rich Rodriguez and Brady Hoke were the coach. I think most Michigan fans do as well. Harbaugh ain't going anywhere. And he'll get the QB right eventually. You act as if really good QB's grow on trees. They don't. It's hard to find them and it takes a couple years to develop one.

[ELA]

Uhh...what? Michigan went to the Rose Bowl in 2004 because they WON the Big Ten. They had the h2h tie-breaker over Iowa, as they punked Iowa that year 30-17. Michigan barely lost to Notre Dame on the road in the 2nd game of the year in what was a true freshman QB Chad Henne's first ever road start. Mike Hart didn't even play in that game either. He was the back-up RB to David Underwood that game and he had maybe 3-4 carries. He didn't become the starter until the 4th game of that season. Michigan might've won that game had Mike Hart been the starter from Day 1. Yeah they lose to Ohio State in Columbus that year. Henne was a true frosh who struggled in that environment, and it's no secret that Tressel had Lloyd's number.

Yeah, 2004 UM and Iowa were co-champs, and UM had the tiebreaker for the Rose Bowl over them based on H2H.  No shenanigans there.