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The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Anonymous Coward on July 20, 2017, 04:43:26 PM

Title: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on July 20, 2017, 04:43:26 PM
All the good stuff is on the old thread (which can still be seen here, as of today: http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=451&f=2364&t=15199407&p=28 (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=451&f=2364&t=15199407&p=28)); so, let's start writing some new good stuff.

We're still in the dog days, so the new stuff will arrive slowly. Today there were three newsy bits, though:

Beginning with the deskjob army, Michigan has hired two more behind the scenes types. And the first is a lot more intriguing than most. Harbaugh has hired Tom Gamble, a recent assistant-GM of the 49ers and Eagles. He was also an office executive when Harbaugh was in SF. This is a more unusual hire than most. I'm guessing he'll be much more than a recruiting coordinator.

Michigan also seems to have hired Matt...Dudek (Ha!). The other wrinkle of interest here is that Dudek (Ha!) was Rich Rodriguez's "Director of Player Personnel" (ugh, these titles; I feel like every one these days gets a capitalized pile of words that I can't instantly comprehend; so, what precisely did he do?) at U-Arizona.

The final news is negative and does not regard Michigan directly. Senior UF safety Marcell Harris has torn his Achilles. I don't know much about Harris except that (1) this sucks, (2) he's a returning starter, (3) represented his team at media days, and (4) this sucks.
Title: Re: MICHIGAN, 2017
Post by: Anonymous Coward on July 20, 2017, 06:55:04 PM
It's official, Garrett Moores is HOTY: https://twitter.com/gmoores11/status/888148262666063872/video/1 (https://twitter.com/gmoores11/status/888148262666063872/video/1)

Short. Funny.
Title: Re: MICHIGAN, 2017
Post by: ohio1317 on July 21, 2017, 12:43:55 AM
College Football News (no longer affiliated with the the CFN old forums which will soon be disappearing  ??? ) has the Woverines winning the conference.  If the youth on the team can grow up fast, schedule might work out well for them.
Title: Re: MICHIGAN, 2017
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2017, 06:51:26 AM
I see at least 10 wins, and yes, those last few games are the toughest (sans Florida, which WILL be tough).

The talent is there. It must translate from talent to team.

It will be interesting to watch.
Title: Re: MICHIGAN, 2017
Post by: Anonymous Coward on July 21, 2017, 05:25:53 PM
I can see 10 or more. I'm predicting 9. Just like the rest of the world. 8 would be more of a disaster than 10 would be remarkable, so I guess that means 8 seems less like than 10, but 9 is likeliest, so 10 would be some kind of overachievement, given the standard expectations for this kind of attrition. But yeah, still so much talent and good coaching.

That's why it's going to be so fun. Loads of questions and "low" expectations.
Title: Re: MICHIGAN, 2017
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 22, 2017, 12:17:10 AM
Florida's SS tore his achilles, so that's fun.  That leaves 2 experienced guys in our base-nickel package.

If UM can't pass on Florida, it'll be a long year.
Title: Re: MICHIGAN, 2017
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 22, 2017, 12:49:54 AM
I am seeing the UM/PSU game deciding the east. 
Title: Re: MICHIGAN, 2017
Post by: Temp430 on July 22, 2017, 09:23:26 AM
Summer camp starts in just 9 days.  In my mind the biggest issue to resolve is the composition of the starting OL.   And I hope that happens early on.  I hate when they're still dicking around with the OL after the season has started.  The next largest issue is getting the young but talented DBs up to snuff.  Other than that I think Michigan will be better than fine and should go 11-1 with the loss most likely happening on the road at Wisconsin. 
Title: Re: MICHIGAN, 2017
Post by: Anonymous Coward on July 22, 2017, 02:27:37 PM
The Dudek hire seemed like a forgone conclusion when I posted it, but it'll probably roll in through a bunch of increasingly official announcements.

Here's the first:

https://mobile.twitter.com/dennisdoddcbs/status/888820612738764800

Dennis Dodd @dennisdoddcbs

Breaking: Arizona's talented Matt Dudek expected to be named Michigan director of recruiting. First reported by footballscoop.
Title: Re: MICHIGAN, 2017
Post by: DevilFroggy on July 22, 2017, 09:43:15 PM
lol, "talented"

uofa's recruiting hasn't exactly been gangbusters while he was there.
Title: Re: MICHIGAN, 2017
Post by: Anonymous Coward on July 23, 2017, 01:51:14 AM
lol, "talented"

uofa's recruiting hasn't exactly been gangbusters while he was there.

What do you think the theoretical gold standard at his position could accomplish as football recruiter at a basketball school in the desert, overshadowed by USC (to the extent that *maybe* Arizona traditionally lands one USC offeree per 5 or so years), all while tied to a sinking Rodriguez ship whose returns diminish further each season?

I think we should implicitly trust Harbaugh's ability to find and integrate supremely useful people.

Meanwhile, despite his last name, Matt's not someone I've ever heard of. But a brief google search does quickly float a few things consistent with him being a "stand out." First, he was named the national "Director of Player Peronnel of the Year" in 2014...by FootballScoop. That website qualifier zaps the wind out of the credit, because who is "FootballScoop" (?), but still. Second, apparently he rose to the level of "General Manager" at Arizona -- apparently the first to hold that title in CFB. Also: weird. I don't fully know what to do with either of those. They don't move the needle nearly as much as Harbaugh's being sold by him, but they do indicate that people other than Harbaugh (some inside and some out of his circle) respect him in unusual magnitude (for a desk jobber).
Title: Re: MICHIGAN, 2017
Post by: Anonymous Coward on July 24, 2017, 11:30:49 PM
I'm stealing this observation from a poster at mgoblog:

Sports betting sites have coin flip odds on Michigan's QB starter in Game 1:

https://www.bookmaker.eu/live-lines/football

Michigan Starting QB Week 1
Speight -105 (51.22% implied probability, meaning you need to bet $105 to win $100)

Peters +110 (47.62% implied probability, meaning a $100 bet wins $110)


That feels like easy money. I'd call it much more likely if the first opponent were a directional school, but against a Top 15 Florida squad, Peters would not only have to be overwhelmingly talented but also way ahead of schedule to unseat one of the best 2 or 3 Big Ten passers from 2016.

A far more interesting bet involves who will be the starter versus OSU. If Speight can get to his pre-injury form, he's a great option, but Peters has a much better chance to blow up over that time frame.
Title: Re: MICHIGAN, 2017
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 25, 2017, 12:54:53 AM
Funny, UM's opponent's QB isn't certain, either.
Title: Re: MICHIGAN, 2017
Post by: Anonymous Coward on July 25, 2017, 01:09:02 AM
I feel like Michigan's QB is super certain, though. *Maybe* not for the full season but for the opener.

And I'll be satisfied when Speight starts. Having said that, if somehow the Earth opens to swallow him hole, that will imply things about Peters which will also be very satisfying.
Title: Re: MICHIGAN, 2017
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 25, 2017, 01:16:52 AM
Yeah, I had no idea there was any uncertainty for you guys.
Title: Re: MICHIGAN, 2017
Post by: Anonymous Coward on July 25, 2017, 01:29:35 AM
Ha, is that a joke about the roster (it could be a good one) or just about QB?
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on July 25, 2017, 03:39:32 PM
Harbaugh on the QBs at media days:

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/20154359/michigan-wolverines-3-way-tie-starting-qb

"[Speight] comes in really tied for first with John O'Korn and Brandon Peters, legitimately, through competition," Harbaugh said. "Throughout all the spring, we went through 15 practices and it was a dead heat. But the good news is they all did some things. Brandon really shot up."

Sounds like O'Korn is significantly improved, though I'm not expecting it to matter except for the big way in which the scout team matters.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Temp430 on July 26, 2017, 07:33:07 AM
Jordan Lewis acquitted of BS domestic violence charge pursued by zealot Ann Arbor DA.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2017/07/25/jourdan-lewis-domestic-violence-charge/103982064/ (http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2017/07/25/jourdan-lewis-domestic-violence-charge/103982064/)
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Temp430 on July 31, 2017, 08:28:56 AM
Summer camp has started.  Time to "strap on the iron jock." 

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2017/07/30/s-put-up--shut-up-time-michigans-young-players/104146396/
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on July 31, 2017, 06:38:51 PM
Where's MDoT?Hopefully he's not over @ CFN.Scout.com hitting F-5/enter
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Temp430 on August 05, 2017, 09:28:40 PM
Georgia 2019 5* DL/OL recruit Christopher Hinton has committed to Michigan.

https://twitter.com/Thechrishinton/status/893993710169591810

Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on August 13, 2017, 05:14:46 PM
Andy Staples ✔ @Andy_Staples
Leading WR Antonio Callaway and six other Florida players suspended for the season opener against Michigan.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Temp430 on August 16, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Gregg Henson, who has proven to have some inside knowledge, reports...

1. QB situation - O'Korn has been great in practice and is pushing Speight.  Peter's trouble is mental; he's too laid back.
2. The best by "a mile" WRs are Black, DPJ, Oliver Martin, and Nate Schoenle.
3. "The #1 offensive line group right now is:  (LT) Mason Cole, (LG) Ben Bresedon, (C) Patrick Kugler, (RG) Michael Onwenu, (RT) Juwann Bushell-Beatty.  Cesar Ruiz will play but isn’t expected to run with the first team."  No surprises there.

http://gregghenson.com/michigan-qb-update-and-other-practice-notes/ (http://gregghenson.com/michigan-qb-update-and-other-practice-notes/)
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: MichiFan87 on August 17, 2017, 10:32:55 PM
MGoBlog (Brian and Seth) and a few other people were at the preseason Michigan alumni event in Chicago tonight. They had presentations about the team as a whole as well as about why Don Brown is such a great DC (ie. he knows how to effectively use hybrid players that don't have a traditional position to their combination of size/speed/agility/athleticism).

It basically reinforced the common beliefs. Speight is the QB and should be better. The RBs are solid and will split snaps based on their different strengths, but Evans is the top guy. WRs and TEs are relatively unproven, but there's a lot of potential and depth so they should improve as the season goes on. OL is average overall, most likely, but should improve through the season. The DL still has great starters but depth isn't there yet. LBs are at least good and potentially great. Safeties are relatively inexperienced but played well last year when they had to so it should be solid. CBs are a big unknown, but there's a lot of competition. Kicker and punter are highly rated but obviously unproven. Return game probably won't be as good without Peppers, but blocking punts/kicks could still be a big advantage.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Temp430 on August 22, 2017, 12:08:29 PM
Coach Zordich calling out some of the CBs makes me think all is not sunshine and roses in the secondary...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/2017/08/21/michigan-cbs-struggling-youth-no-longer-excuse/104816306/ (http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/2017/08/21/michigan-cbs-struggling-youth-no-longer-excuse/104816306/)


Junior DB Kieth Washington to transfer...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/2017/08/21/report-michigan-db-keith-washington-transfer/104830234/ (http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/2017/08/21/report-michigan-db-keith-washington-transfer/104830234/)
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on August 22, 2017, 01:37:02 PM
stinks to hear about Washington. Liked his size and his length and speed.

I didn't see anything Zordich said that made me think it's going to be all doom and gloom. This is a very young secondary. They will take their lumps. For sure. That was always going to happen. Thankfully Florida doesn't have the QB to exploit them and Florida's best WR by far is suspended for the game.

There is a ton of young talent there though at CB. LaVert Hill is going to be a good one and he's already got one CB spot on lock. And the scary thing is Ambry Thomas is probably going to be even better. Thomas was better as a JR for King than Hill was as a senior IMO. Thomas was one of the top 3 kids I was most pumped for in the 2017 class. He should've been rated a 5* along with DPJ. He is just a flat out STUD football player.

To me that just sounded like an indictment on David Long. Zordich and the Michigan staff were expecting greatness from that kid. He was a very high 4*, rated #65 overall in the 247Composite out of Cali and he hasn't lived up to it yet or come close. And there is no excuse for that. He was a legit 5'11" and ran a laser timed 4.4 flat at one of those NIKE camps as a junior in high school and he's a legit 10.5 100m HS track star. Good size, super athletic. There is really no excuse for him not taking the reigns and grabbing that spot opposite Hill. He's got all of the raw natural athletic ability in the world.

I don't really look into what Zordich said about Brandon Watson at all, because honestly, Brandon Watson is just not that talented. He's far too slow and not quick-twitch enough to even be playing CB and he's too small to play anything else like Safety or the Jabrill Peppers hybrid spot. He's really just a special teams/depth guy.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on August 22, 2017, 02:00:58 PM
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmgoblog.com%2Fsites%2Fmgoblog.com%2Ffiles%2Fimage_thumb_1878.png&hash=80a6b68453dc229e8cdeaa8865f8142c)


That should be as good a starting 4 as there is in the conference if Mone can stay healthy. Hurst is going to just bring it on his way to being a pretty high draft pick. Gary has been nothing but dominant throughout spring and fall and his talent is through the roof. Mone is a big-time talent, has had some pretty bad luck with injury but if he's healthy he will be a productive force in the middle of that line. Winovich had 6.5 sacks off the bench at 240 pounds in his first year ever playing DE. He's added weight, gained a year of experience at the position- excited to see what he can do with more snaps.

Depth will make or break that front line. If they get some productive depth out of Lawrence Marshall and some of the young guys, that DL could be lethal yet again in 2017 despite losing Wormley, Taco, and Glasgow to the NFL.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Temp430 on August 22, 2017, 02:27:31 PM
I didn't realize Winovich was so big.  I knew he was fast.  DL is going to be special again this year.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on August 22, 2017, 02:29:02 PM
I didn't realize Winovich was so big.  I knew he was fast.  DL is going to be special again this year.

he definitely looks a lot bigger. If he's close to 260 and can hold up against the run he'll be a star.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 22, 2017, 02:36:42 PM
Coach Zordich calling out some of the CBs makes me think all is not sunshine and roses in the secondary...

I think you'd be crazy to expect them to be great out of the gate.  Fortunately the only ranked team they play before mid-October is Florida, whose strength was already not going to be passing the ball, and that's before they lost Calloway.  They'll have 6 weeks to grow up back there before facing McSorley.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on August 22, 2017, 03:41:15 PM

Depth will make or break that front line. If they get some productive depth out of Lawrence Marshall and some of the young guys, that DL could be lethal yet again in 2017 despite losing Wormley, Taco, and Glasgow to the NFL.

Like OSU last season who lost Bosa,Washington,Schutt & Hale.Lot of talent but need that experience which helps with confidence & development.They could be something as they get to play together
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on August 22, 2017, 04:06:49 PM
I think you'd be crazy to expect them to be great out of the gate.  Fortunately the only ranked team they play before mid-October is Florida, whose strength was already not going to be passing the ball, and that's before they lost Calloway.  They'll have 6 weeks to grow up back there before facing McSorley.

this. the young CB's will have plenty of time to get their feet wet before. They will be completely different players game 1 vs game 7. 
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2017, 04:12:08 PM

Take it easy big fella. The young QB's could also lose confidence early and not develop properly. It happens a lot. Just be careful with the


(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.180vape.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F02%2Fblue-koolaid.jpg&hash=d4c7b22d715f709b59f393820ced50df)
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on August 22, 2017, 04:18:02 PM
Take it easy big fella. The young QB's could also lose confidence early and not develop properly. It happens a lot. Just be careful with the


(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.180vape.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F02%2Fblue-koolaid.jpg&hash=d4c7b22d715f709b59f393820ced50df)

with Hoke coaching them they probably would have lost confidence and fallen apart. Have only seen great player development out of Harbaugh and his staff. Jourdan Lewis flourished and would have never expected in a million years for Jeremy Clark or Channing Stribling to do anything let alone BOTH be very good players when they looked like absolute trash under Hoke.

The game is all about coaching and player development. Harbaugh and Don Brown both have a pretty god damn good track record at that. Excuse me for having faith in an elite HC and an elite DC.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2017, 04:19:54 PM
You forgot mental. So much of the game is mental.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on August 22, 2017, 04:26:32 PM
You forgot mental. So much of the game is mental.

which again leads back to coaching and player development.

the great coaches know how to play mind games with players to get the most out of them. Jimmy Johnson was the master at this. The guy had his masters in psychology and was going to be a psychologist before he fell into coaching.

many people think Harbaugh is mental. Lol. Whatever he's doing- he knows the mind of a player and what buttons to press. The guy has developed talent everywhere he's ever been.

Michigan has a really good coaching staff. Off the top of my head- Harbaugh, Brown, Drevno, and Frey are all rock solid coaches. All of them have great reputations and track records of developing talent.

Pros it's all about the QB. You don't have one, you're screwed. College game is all about the coach. You don't have a great one, you're screwed. Doesn't matter if you're Florida or USC or Texas with an unlimited supply of recruiting gold all around you. No coach, no program.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on August 23, 2017, 02:01:16 PM
4* DE/DT James Hudson dabbling at OT in fall camp? Sounds like it according to Sam Webb. Wouldn't mind that move to be honest. They have a lot of young, promising talent along the DL from the 2016 and 2017 class. Offensive Tackle? Eh not so much.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Temp430 on August 25, 2017, 08:13:39 AM
Insider reports that Speight has won the starting job backed up by O'Korn.   McCaffrey would be #3 if not for a red shirt...so Peters is "fading."
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on August 25, 2017, 12:26:57 PM
Insider reports that Speight has won the starting job backed up by O'Korn.   McCaffrey would be #3 if not for a red shirt...so Peters is "fading."

that's not "insider" report, that came from another Michigan blog that is an MgoBlog wannabe and way less credible.

McCaffrey is a beanpole. I highly doubt he'd be higher on the depth chart than Peters. Anybody who thought Speight wouldn't keep the job is crazy. O'Korn being ahead of a RS Frosh Peters on the depth chart is a little bit surprising, but it's not completely shocking. Peters was always going to take some time to develop. He was a little raw as a HS QB. He played 3 other sports and didn't have the private tutoring that top QB prospects these days have.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on August 25, 2017, 05:19:04 PM
RS Frosh Nate Johnson (5'11, 180) has made the move to CB. Makes sense for depth purposes with the Keith Washington transfer. Also, it's kind of a crowded young WR room right now. Don't really think Johnson was going to get very many minutes as a WR going forward, especially with Grant Perry being re-instated. Have to think most of the slot WR minutes will go to Perry and Eddie McDoom.

Makes one WR from both the 2016 and 2017 classes that have now moved to DB. 4* Brad Hawkins moved to safety back in the spring and has been getting very good reviews from secondary coach Mike Zordich. Johnson was a 3* in the 2016 247Composite- although 247's own rankings were much higher on him- they had him as a 4* and as one their top 200 players in the nation.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 30, 2017, 02:22:51 PM
I've never heard of him, so I can't imagine it's a huge deal


Adam Rittenberg
ESPN Staff Writer 
Michigan's Nate Johnson, a cornerback who played wide receiver last season, has been suspended from all team activities.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Preseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on September 30, 2017, 09:38:47 PM
I've never heard of him, so I can't imagine it's a huge deal


Adam Rittenberg
ESPN Staff Writer
Michigan's Nate Johnson, a cornerback who played wide receiver last season, has been suspended from all team activities.
it's not.
Not for this season anyway. He was a 2016 recruit, 3* WR from Tennessee. Listed at 5'11, 180. Redshirted in 2016 and was getting passed over by a bunch of WR's in fall camp of 2017 and they moved him to CB.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: ELA on September 30, 2017, 09:40:34 PM
Heh didn't realize the last post in the thread was about him
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: HailHailMSP on October 03, 2017, 11:09:48 AM
I haven't seen it shared here, but I know some will love this if they haven't found it yet.

Jack and Jim Harbaugh do a weekly podcast. It has very little to do with Michigan football and more about storytelling. Bo stories, Gerald Ford stories, rivalry stories from all of their coaching and playing stops, and great guests that come on. It really is good listening for all college football fans if you are looking for something while you are driving, on a treadmill, or in the office at work. 

https://www.podcastone.com/attack-each-day-the-harbaugh-podcast
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: ELA on October 04, 2017, 10:11:51 AM
I've never heard of him, so I can't imagine it's a huge deal


Adam Rittenberg
ESPN Staff Writer
Michigan's Nate Johnson, a cornerback who played wide receiver last season, has been suspended from all team activities.
Dismissed
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2017, 10:19:32 AM
Dismissed
Meritocracy. :93:
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: ELA on October 04, 2017, 10:44:39 AM
Meritocracy. :93:
He certainly isn't as good as Grant Perry
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2017, 10:49:07 AM
I just like typing that word. I have to imagine the kid did something very wrong to get dismissed in the season.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: ELA on October 04, 2017, 10:50:13 AM
I just like typing that word. I have to imagine the kid did something very wrong to get dismissed in the season.
He was charged with assault.
He had to do something wrong, and not be a starter.  Thus, gone.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2017, 10:52:57 AM
He was charged with assault.
He had to do something wrong, and not be a starter.  Thus, gone.
Actually charged? I hadn't read that, but I was reading that it was the case and that it was a female victim.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: ELA on October 04, 2017, 10:59:07 AM
Actually charged? I hadn't read that, but I was reading that it was the case and that it was a female victim.
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2017/10/02/michigan-football-nate-johnson-suspension/724544001/
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: HailHailMSP on October 04, 2017, 02:01:31 PM
In the words of Hawk Harrelson,"He Gone." The facts in this one must be pretty clear from the get go that they are dismissing the kid so quickly. 

Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 04, 2017, 08:02:38 PM
He certainly isn't as good as Grant Perry
you're right. He's probably going to wind up being a better player if he ever sees the field at his next stop. And I'm guessing that he will get a second chance. Unless it's just a horrific case. But I don't think it'll wind up being that bad. Nate Johnson was offered by a lot of major schools. Notre Dame, Tennessee, Louisville, Penn State, Miami, Virginia Tech, South Carolina.

Grant Perry was not. Perry was basically a 2* with nothing but MAC offers. This idea that you have that he's really good at football and that's why he was allowed to stay on- absolute crazy talk. Grant Perry is mediocre at football. At best. There is nothing great about him or his game. He's maybe 5'11, 190 max and he runs 4.6 on his very best day. There is nothing special about him. At all. He has mediocre hands, he's a mediocre route runner, he's got mediocre size, and he's a mediocre athlete. He caught 14 passes as a freshman, 13 as a sophomore, and now 13 in his junior season and he's averaging a whopping 12 yards a catch this season. It's not like he's produced a lot on the field and it's not like he's this super talented player. He's not and he's not. If you're talking pure talent- he is easily the least talented WR on that roster.

Their situations are probably a lot different-we don't know the full details of what happened with Nate Jonhson- but it must've been pretty serious which is why he was kicked off the team.

Grant Perry is not talented. He's not even good. He's just a guy. I was actually hoping he'd get booted so the coaches wouldn't be so pig headed and were forced to give his minutes and reps to better players like Eddie McDoom and Oliver Martin. If all Harbaugh cared about was keeping talented players around he'd have let LTT stick around. Have you seen Michigan's freaking tackles this year? Logan Tulley Tillman was a guaranteed starter and the best tackle Harbaugh had on his roster and he booted him. LTT started all 12 games for Akron last year at LT and is a starter for UTEP at LT this year and he'll probably get drafted late if some team decides to take a flier on him and I think they will considering his size/athletic combo.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on October 13, 2017, 09:30:27 AM
This is the first week I've heard doubts and disappointments about Harbaugh shower down from Michigan fans. Harbaugh's W/L record has been sized up against Hoke's. His 1-4 record against rivals MSU & OSU has brought comparison's to Lloyd Carr. I like the Lloyd comparison so far because he was a master at blowing out the Indianas and Minnesotas only to get rolled in the higher pressure games. Plenty blame the hemorrhages taking snap at QB, but I wonder how much of the incline towards impotent offenses in big games goes back to Harbaugh's days in the NFL. It's noticeable too with other college coaches bringing back NFL experience, such as Jim Mora Jr putting his tail between his legs on offense, not realizing that in college you can gameplan for getting away with a lot more risks than you can in the NFL.

With all that said, Michigan wins 2 of 3 vs Penn State, Ohio State, and Wisconsin. I'll go further and mark the two wins as Vs Ohio State and @ Wisconsin.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 13, 2017, 05:24:40 PM
This is the first week I've heard doubts and disappointments about Harbaugh shower down from Michigan fans. Harbaugh's W/L record has been sized up against Hoke's. His 1-4 record against rivals MSU & OSU has brought comparison's to Lloyd Carr. I like the Lloyd comparison so far because he was a master at blowing out the Indianas and Minnesotas only to get rolled in the higher pressure games. Plenty blame the hemorrhages taking snap at QB, but I wonder how much of the incline towards impotent offenses in big games goes back to Harbaugh's days in the NFL. It's noticeable too with other college coaches bringing back NFL experience, such as Jim Mora Jr putting his tail between his legs on offense, not realizing that in college you can gameplan for getting away with a lot more risks than you can in the NFL.

With all that said, Michigan wins 2 of 3 vs Penn State, Ohio State, and Wisconsin. I'll go further and mark the two wins as Vs Ohio State and @ Wisconsin.
Uh...what? I haven't really seen any Michigan fans calling for Harbaugh's head.

Carr didn't get the nickname LLLLoyd for nothin'. Carr lost more than his fair share of games he had absolutely no business losing. App State says HI! He pretty much never had trouble with MSU and he absolutely owned OSU until Tressel arrived in 2001. Carr took over Michigan in '95. He took over a team with a loaded OL and an incredible RB in Tim Biakabatuka- and he still managed to lose 4 games. Biakabatuka was probably the best RB that has ever touched a football at Michigan.

Shit- Carr dropped 3 games in 2000 with a starting QB like Drew Henson, a starting RB like Anthony Thomas, WR's like David Terrell and Marquise Walker, and an offensive line that consisted of 4 guys that were drafted by the NFL- two of them in the 1st round in Jeff Backus and Steve Hutchinson. And none of these guys were young. They were all upperclassmen playing together in their prime.  

Henson would've been the #1 pick in the NFL draft had he not quit football to sign a long-term deal with the New York Yankees. Anthony Thomas was the #1 HS RB recruit in his class back in '97- basically a 5* before there were recruit rankings- he started at Michigan for 4 years set every school rushing record known to man was drafted in the 2nd round and was the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year. 

David  Terrell was a top 10 NFL draft pick, Marquise Walker was a 3rd round draft pick. LT Jeff Backus was a 1st round pick and LG Steve Hutchinson was a 1st round pick as well and he'll probably be in the NFL Hall of Fame one day. Oh yeah- not to mention their starting RT Maurice Williams was drafted in the 2nd round and their starting RG Jonathan Goodwin was drafted in the 5th round. 4/5 = 80%. 80% of their OL drafted by the NFL. 3/5 = 60%. 60% in the first 2 rounds. That's insane. Has Michigan even had an OL drafted in the 3 yrs that Harbaugh has been there? I think only Glasgow- who was a walk-on.

When Harbaugh builds a starting offense with a roster like that and still manages to lose 3-4 games every year- then fans will start calling for his head.
LC had sick talent like that basically from day 1 pretty much year in year out and he still managed to lose a shit ton of games he shouldn't have.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 23, 2017, 12:34:33 PM
Lot of things about this coaching staff just don't add up. 

Why is Tim Drevno, who has never been an OC in his life being paid $1 million a year? That is insane. His entire career he's been known as a very good OL coach. Nobody is going to hire him away and pay him $1 million to coach their OL. Seems to me like Harbaugh hooking up a friend of his. 

Pep Hamilton, who was an NFL OC, and got fired- is the "passing game co-ordinator" and is being paid $1 million a year. Does he really need to be paid that? Seems a little ridiculous. So they are paying $2 million a year for this shit show of an offense. Makes a lot of sense. Not. Michigan has the money- hell I say spend $2 million a year if you can get Josh McDaniels to come co-ordinate your offense. But just wasting $2 million on guys that aren't worth the money? Complete insanity. 

They don't have a WR's coach either. And it shows. Michigan used to develop WR's like nobodies business from the early 90s all the way to end of Carr's reign. Might want to hire a full-time WR coach. They've got a ton of raw talent at the position. Eddie McDoom, Dylan Crawford, DPJ, and Tarik Black are all about as talented as it gets. I understand Black is hurt and he'll be back, but those other 3 guys- they have enormous talent and aren't living up to that talent. They aren't being developed. Kind of sad when you have to rely on Grant Perry who is as mediocre as it gets to be your go to wide receiver. 

I think Harbaugh is in the same place Franklin was a couple years back when he had to rehaul his offensive coaching staff and went out and got Moorehead. This off-season is going to be absolutely pivotal to Harbaugh's future at Michigan. If he doesn't make that sort of sweeping change, not sure he'll last the long haul.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on October 23, 2017, 02:26:15 PM

I think Harbaugh is in the same place Franklin was a couple years back when he had to rehaul his offensive coaching staff and went out and got Moorehead. This off-season is going to be absolutely pivotal to Harbaugh's future at Michigan. If he doesn't make that sort of sweeping change, not sure he'll last the long haul.

Excellent and enlightening comparison of the situation Harbaugh is currently facing on offense.
I have zero doubt Harbaugh will weather through and, if anything, this temporary stay on monster expectations might help why he lasts long term. One good thing about these last two losses is the quieting of the radio fodder constantly spouting for speculation sake "Harbaugh to the Indianapolis Colts (because Andrew Luck!)" or "Harbaugh to the Chicago Bears (because they drafted him!") Let a few "rough" years at Michigan kill off the constant NFL static.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 23, 2017, 03:36:54 PM
Excellent and enlightening comparison of the situation Harbaugh is currently facing on offense.
I have zero doubt Harbaugh will weather through and, if anything, this temporary stay on monster expectations might help why he lasts long term. One good thing about these last two losses is the quieting of the radio fodder constantly spouting for speculation sake "Harbaugh to the Indianapolis Colts (because Andrew Luck!)" or "Harbaugh to the Chicago Bears (because they drafted him!") Let a few "rough" years at Michigan kill off the constant NFL static.
I never bought those two NFL rumors. The Bears just aren't going to pony up the kind of massive money package it'd take to get him there and Harbaugh isn't going to go work for someone like Jim Irsay despite who the QB is. I don't have doubts that NFL teams will still try to come after him though. He's a proven NFL coach, and really despite his flaws he is a hell of a head football coach. I don't think the Harbaugh to NFL static will ever really die. I think his schemes and style of offense probably fit best in the NFL to be honest. They just seem way too intricate and complex for most college kids who aren't able to spend 100% of their time on football and they seem way too dependent on talent. Not always going to have great talent in college every year. Especially at QB. I really think the college game is tailor made for more simple, wide open, up tempo, spread offenses. The wide open spread style offenses have become the great talent equalizer and they are pretty simple offenses for young players- especially QB's to pick up and learn quickly. If you want to run an NFL offense- you better have NFL level QB's. And he doesn't. Closest thing he had was Rudock for that one year.

For all the talk of "this is a meritocracy" Harbaugh is employing one of his best friends as OC- and paying him $1 million a year in Drevno- a guy that probably isn't really qualified for that job considering he'd only ever been an OL coach in his 25+ year coaching career. And he's certainly not worth the $1 million they are paying him. IF you're paying an OC that much it's because you have to- you're trying to keep him off the market and from other teams from poaching. Well, no one is poaching Tim Drevno to be their OC. Ever. Ditto Pep Hamilton- a guy who was a failed NFL OC at Indianapolis and Cleveland. He is being paid $1 million a year to be the "passing game co-ordinator". Nobody is going to try and snatch him up to be their OC and pay him that kind of money. Pep goes back with Harbaugh to Stanford- he was one of the first hires Jim made when he got the Stanford job. And let's not forget Jim's son Jay. He's a heck of a recruiter, but he had never been a full-time coach anywhere and he just basically stepped into one of the best assistant coaching jobs as a 25 year old kid because his dad got hired at Michigan. All that talk of "meritocracy" - well sure seems like he takes care of his own.

I have my doubts about Harbaugh. He certainly can recruit, he's certainly a great head coach, and he certainly knows how to build a defensive staff and let them do their thing. But I think his ego just might be way too big to make the changes on offense and his hands might be too involved on offense for him to want to give up some of that control.

Not getting off to a great start today, as Harbaugh has said today that O'Korn will be the starter for the Rutgers game. Which makes no sense to me at all. Perfect time to get the frosh Peters some real playing time at home against a B1G opponent. I think Franklin didn't have the kind of pull Harbaugh does at Michigan to tell people trying to get into his ear to shove off, and honestly as big as Franklin's ego is- not sure anybody in CFB has an ego as big as Harbaugh's.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: GopherRock on October 23, 2017, 08:05:49 PM
The 93rd Little Brown Jug will be contested under the Musco sun on November 4, at 730PM EST. 

Yours truly will be there.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Temp430 on October 24, 2017, 08:32:51 AM
This was always going to be a rebuilding year given all the new personnel on defense, OL, and WR.  When the defense played better than anticipated expectations of many increased, myself included.   I think Michigan is playing about as well as can be expected given the youth and injuries.  The Penn State game was a frustrating reality check for sure that apparently hasn't sunk in yet for some calling for coach firings and starting a red-shirt freshman at QB over the coaching staff's better judgement.  The remainder of the season is going to be a dog fight.  There's not a sure win remaining on the schedule, Rutgers included.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Temp430 on October 27, 2017, 08:41:08 AM
Michigan QB Speight may return by the Wisconsin game.

Speight on the Mend (https://amp.detroitnews.com/amp/107046202)
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 27, 2017, 07:31:44 PM
Michigan QB Speight may return by the Wisconsin game.

Speight on the Mend (https://amp.detroitnews.com/amp/107046202)
Glad he's healthy and the injury wasn't career threatening. But this news is kinda just meh to me. As up and down as O'Korn is play to play, not like Speight was lighting the world on fire. I really don't think he'll make much difference. There are way too many flaws with the offense and play-calling/staff.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on October 30, 2017, 12:24:59 PM
Fun game I saw on MGoBlog.  What is Michigan's best win?

Florida?
Air Force?
Cincinnati?
Purdue?
Rutgers?
Indiana?
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on October 31, 2017, 09:53:56 AM
This was always going to be a rebuilding year given all the new personnel on defense, OL, and WR.  When the defense played better than anticipated expectations of many increased, myself included. I think Michigan is playing about as well as can be expected given the youth and injuries.  The Penn State game was a frustrating reality check for sure that apparently hasn't sunk in yet for some calling for coach firings and starting a red-shirt freshman at QB over the coaching staff's better judgement.  The remainder of the season is going to be a dog fight.  There's not a sure win remaining on the schedule, Rutgers included.
This is only a rebuilding year AT QUARTERBACK.

For anyone following Michigan closely enough, it was never a surprise to see the defense play top 10 nationally. Maybe it happened faster than expected, but as for returning only 2 starters, a lot of this season's new starters were known contributors last year. Rashon Gary, Devin Bush, and Noah Furbush didn't even count as returning starters in most of the preseason mags.

As for the OL, there are 22 OL competing on the roster, with Mason Cole and Bredesen anchoring the line for good rotation at the other three spots. No surprise they are dominant when motivated.

And IMO the WRs are partly held back by ineffective quarterbacking.

Point is its misleading to explain away this season's disappointments as a rebuilding year. The roster is loaded save for one glaring eye sore.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: HailHailMSP on October 31, 2017, 10:51:04 AM
This is only a rebuilding year AT QUARTERBACK.

For anyone following Michigan closely enough, it was never a surprise to see the defense play top 10 nationally. Maybe it happened faster than expected, but as for returning only 2 starters, a lot of this season's new starters were known contributors last year. Rashon Gary, Devin Bush, and Noah Furbush didn't even count as returning starters in most of the preseason mags.

As for the OL, there are 22 OL competing on the roster, with Mason Cole and Bredesen anchoring the line for good rotation at the other three spots. No surprise they are dominant when motivated.

And IMO the WRs are partly held back by ineffective quarterbacking.

Point is its misleading to explain away this season's disappointments as a rebuilding year. The roster is loaded save for one glaring eye sore.
They weren't listed because they legitimately were not starters. I don't think there are any excuses being made, but this is one of the 2-3 youngest teams in FBS this year. An entire defensive starting lineup gets swapped out. 
Penn State went about as expected to me. They were walking into a buzzsaw there, especially given the QB situation. The Sparty game at home was inexcusable. 
Going into the season, I had five games circled. 2 as probable, but closely contested ( Florida, Sparty) and 3 as very difficult (Penn State , Wisconsin, and Ohio State). My expectations for this season rounded out like this:
1 loss or less: Beyond expectations
2-3 losses: Meets expectations
4 or > losses: Below expectations. 
We'll have to see what happens in the final slate of games to see where they end up. 
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 31, 2017, 02:25:13 PM
This is only a rebuilding year AT QUARTERBACK.

For anyone following Michigan closely enough, it was never a surprise to see the defense play top 10 nationally. Maybe it happened faster than expected, but as for returning only 2 starters, a lot of this season's new starters were known contributors last year. Rashon Gary, Devin Bush, and Noah Furbush didn't even count as returning starters in most of the preseason mags.

As for the OL, there are 22 OL competing on the roster, with Mason Cole and Bredesen anchoring the line for good rotation at the other three spots. No surprise they are dominant when motivated.

And IMO the WRs are partly held back by ineffective quarterbacking.

Point is its misleading to explain away this season's disappointments as a rebuilding year. The roster is loaded save for one glaring eye sore.
Not sure I can agree. They lost A LOT of guys to the NFL. 11 were drafted, 8 on defense. And not just good players but some truly GREAT players like Jourdan Lewis and Ryan Glasgow. And they replaced most of those guys with young players in their 1st or 2nd year. Bush and Gary are really good, but still they are only true sophomores. Same thing with CB's David Long and LaVert Hill. All of those guys can get A LOT better than they are. None of them are as consistent as they should be. When Gary and Hill are playing at their very best- not sure there are better players at their positions in the conference. Gary goes for lapses where he's just kinda going through the motions. When he's pissed off though and he's visibly playing angry- he is as destructive a force at defensive line as I've ever seen. He needs to bring it every single time out like Mo Hurst. The hype on Hill being the next Jourdan Lewis- turns out might not be all hype. He is sticky as hell in man coverage. I expected Michigan to have a solid D, but I didn't expect them to be as good as they are. I think they are actually ahead of schedule on defense. Look at their second wave of DL's. DE Kwity Paye and DT Aubrey Solomon are true frosh. Everyone on that entire defense returns next season except for Mo Hurst and Mike McCray. Hurst is going to hurt, not sure there's a better interior DL in the country. McCray is an average player and he's a liability in pass coverage, losing him won't sting like losing Hurst. But that's it- those two are gone and everyone else is back. I have a feeling Ambry Thomas is going to make a jump at CB next year similar to the one Hill has made from year 1 to year 2. Their CB's could be downright filthy if that happens.

As far as the offense goes- the line has been a mess. They lost 3 guys to graduation in Kalis, Magnunson, and Braden. Grant Newsome should be the starting LT and he's basically had to take half of last season and all of this season as an injury redshirt because of that gruesome leg injury against Wisconsin. If he's able to come back in 2018 anywhere close to what he was before the injury- that changes the dynamic of the offense greatly. And Logan Tulley Tilman should be the starting RT right now. He got kicked off the team. It's hard to lose all that experience and talent at OL and try to field a good OL. Michigan is struggling right now at the tackle positions. That's not an easy fix. And they lost their entire pass catching offense from 2016 with Chesson, Darboh, and Butt all drafted by the NFL. Tarik Black, Nico Collins, and Donovan Peoples-Jones are true frosh. Black was the most polished but he got hurt. The other WR options were sophomore Dylan Crawford and Eddie McDoom- both guys who should've been redshirted and were great athletes but complete projects at WR coming out of high school. The only guy they've been able to rely on consistently at WR is Grant Perry who is a junior. Perry is a solid player. He'll be an undrafted free agent some day. But he's not a WR you can build an offense around.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on November 09, 2017, 02:03:03 PM
Don't remember where it was talked about so I'll just throw it here...

Georgia 247 "insider" "mod" Rusty Mansall said Jacob Eason is basically gone. The job is Fromm's and he's Kirby's guy, whereas Eason was Richt's guy who Kirby was able to talk into sticking around. Mansall said Eason is looking at two schools right now. One of those schools? Michigan. Would be kinda crazy if it happened. Eason was Harbaugh's first choice at QB that year. Couldn't get him so that's why he moved on to Peters.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on November 15, 2017, 04:10:55 PM
Someone talk me out of letting these next two games Vs #5 Wisconsin & Vs #9 Ohio State define for me whether Harbaugh is a higher paid Lloyd Carr.

I remember it was December 26th 2004 and I was driving my kid brothers from St Louis to their Dad's in Minneapolis. We were halfway there, crossing over an ice sheet known at that time of year as Iowa. Closer to Des Moines our radio signal picked up the Hawkeyes flagship station and one of the featured segments for the local morning guys was aired at every commercial break as advertisement for their AM show. The featured segment that we heard about 9 times before getting north out of the station's reach was a long rant about how "Michigan gets to go 0-2 and go to the Rose Bowl. It doesn't matter if you cream everybody else when you lose to the two name teams on your schedule - Notre Dame and Ohio State."

Obviously they were mad Iowa didn't get the Rose Bowl that year (a 10-2 Hawkeye squad Lloyd beat that year), but to remember their rant, is anything different with Harbaugh? Minus the sympathy Rose Bowls? Losing to Ohio St every year, beating MSU only when they're 3-9, getting blown out by Penn State. Harbaugh's best win is a completely offense-less game against Wisconsin last year. And the excuses - I keep hearing this is a rebuilding year across the roster when it's so clearly misses the point that the QB position is what's holding everything back. The "young" defense ranks 3rd in the nation in Total Defense. They don't need the rebuilding excuse. How does the coach who played QB in the NFL have zero luck stabilizing the position? And I think the post-NFL Harbaugh is stipped of his sense of knowing when and when not to be aggressive on offense. I'm still pissed about netting only 5 or 6 total yards in 4th quarter against the Buckeyes last season.

I keep hearing the experts talk about this weekend's Wisconsin game as if the pressure is on the Badgers. Yes, but looking beyond this season I think the pressure is all on Harbaugh.


Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on November 15, 2017, 04:31:37 PM
Someone talk me out of letting these next two games Vs #5 Wisconsin & Vs #9 Ohio State define for me whether Harbaugh is a higher paid Lloyd Carr.

I remember it was December 26th 2004 and I was driving my kid brothers from St Louis to their Dad's in Minneapolis. We were halfway there, crossing over an ice sheet known at that time of year as Iowa. Closer to Des Moines our radio signal picked up the Hawkeyes flagship station and one of the featured segments for the local morning guys was aired at every commercial break as advertisement for their AM show. The featured segment that we heard about 9 times before getting north out of the station's reach was a long rant about how "Michigan gets to go 0-2 and go to the Rose Bowl. It doesn't matter if you cream everybody else when you lose to the two name teams on your schedule - Notre Dame and Ohio State."

Obviously they were mad Iowa didn't get the Rose Bowl that year (a 10-2 Hawkeye squad Lloyd beat that year), but to remember their rant, is anything different with Harbaugh? Minus the sympathy Rose Bowls? Losing to Ohio St every year, beating MSU only when they're 3-9, getting blown out by Penn State. Harbaugh's best win is a completely offense-less game against Wisconsin last year. And the excuses - I keep hearing this is a rebuilding year across the roster when it's so clearly misses the point that the QB position is what's holding everything back. The "young" defense ranks 3rd in the nation in Total Defense. They don't need the rebuilding excuse. How does the coach who played QB in the NFL have zero luck stabilizing the position? And I think the post-NFL Harbaugh is stipped of his sense of knowing when and when not to be aggressive on offense. I'm still pissed about netting only 5 or 6 total yards in 4th quarter against the Buckeyes last season.

I keep hearing the experts talk about this weekend's Wisconsin game as if the pressure is on the Badgers. Yes, but looking beyond this season I think the pressure is all on Harbaugh.
Uhh...what? Michigan went to the Rose Bowl in 2004 because they WON the Big Ten. They had the h2h tie-breaker over Iowa, as they punked Iowa that year 30-17. Michigan barely lost to Notre Dame on the road in the 2nd game of the year in what was a true freshman QB Chad Henne's first ever road start. Mike Hart didn't even play in that game either. He was the back-up RB to David Underwood that game and he had maybe 3-4 carries. He didn't become the starter until the 4th game of that season. Michigan might've won that game had Mike Hart been the starter from Day 1. Yeah they lose to Ohio State in Columbus that year. Henne was a true frosh who struggled in that environment, and it's no secret that Tressel had Lloyd's number.

I'm sorry, but that is all some non-sense IMO. Harbaugh has done a pretty good job, all things considered. I see you're giving him zero credit for laying the smack down to B1G champs Penn State last year and beating them by 40? They get the correct call on that spot, game is over and they beat Ohio State in Columbus last year. Something they haven't done since 2000 when Drew Henson was the starting QB. Not to mention their starting QB was playing that game with a broken collarbone and threw 2 pick 6's- really the reason why Ohio State won that game was Speight giving them 14 points. Took a miracle for MSU to beat them in 2015. They're an 11-2 team his first year if they just execute a simple punt with 8 seconds left in the game.

I think the guy has done a terrific job. Had some pretty bad luck in big moments. Can't win them all. I remember when EVERYONE used to blow out Michigan and they'd lose games to teams like Rutgers and Toledo when Rich Rodriguez and Brady Hoke were the coach. I think most Michigan fans do as well. Harbaugh ain't going anywhere. And he'll get the QB right eventually. You act as if really good QB's grow on trees. They don't. It's hard to find them and it takes a couple years to develop one.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: ELA on November 15, 2017, 04:53:22 PM
Uhh...what? Michigan went to the Rose Bowl in 2004 because they WON the Big Ten. They had the h2h tie-breaker over Iowa, as they punked Iowa that year 30-17. Michigan barely lost to Notre Dame on the road in the 2nd game of the year in what was a true freshman QB Chad Henne's first ever road start. Mike Hart didn't even play in that game either. He was the back-up RB to David Underwood that game and he had maybe 3-4 carries. He didn't become the starter until the 4th game of that season. Michigan might've won that game had Mike Hart been the starter from Day 1. Yeah they lose to Ohio State in Columbus that year. Henne was a true frosh who struggled in that environment, and it's no secret that Tressel had Lloyd's number.

Yeah, 2004 UM and Iowa were co-champs, and UM had the tiebreaker for the Rose Bowl over them based on H2H.  No shenanigans there.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on November 15, 2017, 05:16:24 PM
It should be an interesting 15 game stretch for Michigan.  They have three more games this year against good teams, and no Michigan fan should be ashamed of a 11-2 or even 10-3 type of season.  9-4 or 8-5 may be a little tougher.  But next year is really the kicker - their defense really can't be much better than it has been the past couple years.  A Michigan team that plays great defense and can run the ball is a heck of a team.  But if they look bad offensively the next two weeks and don't improve much next year, then that' probably as good as it's going to get under Harbaugh.  
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: ELA on November 15, 2017, 05:36:29 PM
It should be an interesting 15 game stretch for Michigan.  They have three more games this year against good teams, and no Michigan fan should be ashamed of a 11-2 or even 10-3 type of season.  9-4 or 8-5 may be a little tougher.  But next year is really the kicker - their defense really can't be much better than it has been the past couple years.  A Michigan team that plays great defense and can run the ball is a heck of a team.  But if they look bad offensively the next two weeks and don't improve much next year, then that' probably as good as it's going to get under Harbaugh.  
Next year is their make or break year.  OSU and PSU lose a ton.  They get Wisconsin at home as their toughest crossover.  It's year 4, it's Harbaugh's team.  If they don't at least make it to Indy next year, I think you'll start hearing from a more discontent portion of the fan base.

9-3 was always "fine" this year, maybe a bit of a bummer because it simply meant beating a bunch of mediocre teams, and losing to all the good ones.  But then the MSU loss became the fly in the ointment.  8-4 isn't bad, but they have to win one of the last two to call this season anything other than somewhat of a disappointment.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on November 15, 2017, 08:47:22 PM
It should be an interesting 15 game stretch for Michigan.  They have three more games this year against good teams, and no Michigan fan should be ashamed of a 11-2 or even 10-3 type of season. 9-4 or 8-5 may be a little tougher. But next year is really the kicker - their defense really can't be much better than it has been the past couple years. A Michigan team that plays great defense and can run the ball is a heck of a team.  But if they look bad offensively the next two weeks and don't improve much next year, then that' probably as good as it's going to get under Harbaugh.  
I'd take 9-4 all day and be happy with it. They just lost 11 guys to the NFL draft AND a few others who were starters that signed UFA/mini-camp deals like Kalis, Dymonte Thomas, Erik Magunson, and Ben Braden- that's 4 starters right there that weren't even drafted to go along with the 11 that were.

There are 105 players on a roster, 85 of them are scholarship- but 105 total. Michigan lost 43 seniors from that roster. Not all of them were starters/scholarship players- but all of them play a role on the TEAM. That's 41% of the roster. Gone. And A LOT of starters gone- seeing as how 11 of them alone were drafted by the NFL.

Expectations went up a little bit for the season after the opener when they man-handled Florida. Really if not for two Speight pick 6's that game would've probably been 33-3 or even worse for Florida. Turns out Florida just wasn't that good. Expectations reset a little bit when Michigan lost it's starting QB for the year a few weeks later against Purdue. Funny how no one ever mentions that. FSU seems to be getting a pass for losing it's starting QB and falling to like 2-5 or 3-6 or whatever they are- but Michigan catches all this shit because they aren't undefeated right now. They went through musical chairs trying out 3 different RT's before Juwann Bushell Beatty settled in that job. Michigan has been a banged up team all year. Lost their starting QB early on. Their starting LT Newsome won't be back until next year. Their best WR was Tarik Black and he's missed most of the year. Their starting RG Mike Onwenu has missed the last 3 games and a true freshman Cesar Ruiz has been filling in for him.

If Peters can finish this season out strong and carry that momentum into bowl practices, spring practices, summer workouts, and then fall camp- 2018 could be a special year. They return basically everybody on offense next year. I think they only lose Mason Cole who is playing LT, but they should get Grant Newsome back. And that defense returns everybody in the two deep except DT Maurice Hurst and LB Mike McCray. Literally everybody else returns. I don't think McCray is that good to be blunt with you, and losing Hurst is going to be a bitch- it's hard to replace a guy that fricken good- even BAMA would struggle with that- truth is those kind of interior havoc wreckers don't grow on trees. But everyone else comes back. And you're just starting to see true froshies DT Aubrey Solomon, CB Ambry Thomas, and Safety Jaylen Kelly-Powell get actual playing time these last couple games. I'm a big fan of LaVert Hill and David Long. Both of those young CB's have started coming into their own in their second seasons with the team. I think I'm an even bigger fan of Ambry Thomas. Really think that secondary has the potential to be really special next year. Wouldn't be surprised if Jaylen Kelly-Powell steals playing time from one of the safeties. Don Brown loves man coverage, his starting safeties struggle in man coverage. Jaylen Kelly-Powell recruiting profile was noted for his man to man cover abilities- kid played a lot of CB in high school and went to all of those Nike/Opening non-sense things and play a lot of corner there and stood out doing so.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on November 15, 2017, 09:09:25 PM
Next year is their make or break year.  OSU and PSU lose a ton.  They get Wisconsin at home as their toughest crossover.  It's year 4, it's Harbaugh's team.  If they don't at least make it to Indy next year, I think you'll start hearing from a more discontent portion of the fan base.

9-3 was always "fine" this year, maybe a bit of a bummer because it simply meant beating a bunch of mediocre teams, and losing to all the good ones.  But then the MSU loss became the fly in the ointment.  8-4 isn't bad, but they have to win one of the last two to call this season anything other than somewhat of a disappointment.
2018 sets up pretty nicely. Defense returns everybody in the two deep except Hurst and McCray. Defense should continue to be really good. If Ambry Thomas makes the same sort of jump Long and Hill did in Year 2 that secondary will be featuring 3 future NFL CB's.

On offense a real-life QB will have to emerge between Peters and Speight. I really hope it's Peters. Not a believer in Speight, never have been. They've got to get LT Grant Newsome back healthy though because they lose Mason Cole, and they need to continue to develop their young offensive linemen. I really like what I've been seeing out of Mike Onwenu and Cesar Ruiz as run blockers. Both have some work to do in pass protection, but that's what interior offensive linemen should look like at the point of attack. Ruiz goes 6'4, 316 and Onwenu 6'3, 350 PLUS, and they straight up maul people into the dirt on run block plays. Year two is usually when you see WR's come into their own. Hard position for rooks to come in and play at a high level. I know Braylon, Terrell, Desmond, Manningham- all of them really broke out as a true sophomores. Hoping DPJ and a healthy Black do the same.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 15, 2017, 10:03:53 PM
Like I said in the other thread, Michigan looks like they are rounding into form. I would not even be a little surprised if they won their last two.

A stifling defense, paired with a team that can run the ball, and a QB that doesn't lose the game. Is a hard formula to beat,  

If Michigan can be that against quality opponents, there will be a nice surprise for those who count them out.   That is the " if" that will get answered soon.  
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on November 15, 2017, 11:59:04 PM
Like I said in the other thread, Michigan looks like they are rounding into form. I would not even be a little surprised if they won their last two.

A stifling defense, paired with a team that can run the ball, and a QB that doesn't lose the game. Is a hard formula to beat,  

If Michigan can be that against quality opponents, there will be a nice surprise for those who count them out.   That is the " if" that will get answered soon.  
I'd be surprised as hell if they won their last two. 1 of the two? There's a remote shot at that. Both? I think that's downright impossible.

Peters is the real key to the last two games and really to 2018. So far he's really just taken care of the football, played smart and hasn't been asked to do a whole lot. Not saying he's remotely close to Andrew Luck, but that's basically what Luck did his RS Frosh year at Stanford. Luck wasn't the focal piece of that offense his frosh year, he was basically asked just not to F it up and they leaned on Toby Gearhart and that running game in '09.

Andrew Luck's RS Frosh season at Stanford he only threw 13 TD's- against 4 INT's- which is a great stat-line showing he was taking care of the ball and being smart with the football and not turning it over- but he only completed 56% of his passes and he averaged 21 pass attempts per start. He was more game manager than superstar QB. It was that quantum leap he made in the 2nd year as a RS Soph that really catapulted him to super stardom and really that entire Stanford program.

He went from 56% completion to 70.7%, touchdown passes went from 13 to 32, and his pass yards went from 2,500 to 3,400. That kind of production from the QB position is a complete program changer. Peters makes anywhere near that sort of quantum leap from year 1 to year 2- Michigan is going to be a problem in 2018. He doesn't- I don't see them being much better than they are this year.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on November 16, 2017, 02:05:49 PM
I'd be surprised as hell if they won their last two. 1 of the two? There's a remote shot at that. Both? I think that's downright impossible.



I can't tell if you're cautiously intending to oversell a "2017 is a rebuilding year" mindset, but I find it inexcusable to hire the one and only Jim Harbaugh and pay him $7 Mil/Yr only to have a remote shot at winning one of two vs Wisconsin/OSU down the homestretch of Year 3.


Either way I'm not as patient as you.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on November 16, 2017, 07:32:02 PM

I can't tell if you're cautiously intending to oversell a "2017 is a rebuilding year" mindset, but I find it inexcusable to hire the one and only Jim Harbaugh and pay him $7 Mil/Yr only to have a remote shot at winning one of two vs Wisconsin/OSU down the homestretch of Year 3.


Either way I'm not as patient as you.
you can't win every game every year. They lost 41% of their roster from the previous year. 11 guys drafted by the NFL. Like 4-5 more starting plays signed UDFA contracts. 43 seniors.

The only gripe I have with him is how unprepared they were to take on Penn State at night on the road. They got wiped off the field. That is not acceptable. Ever. It's one of only two games he's coached where his team wasn't competitive for 60 minutes and just got obliterated off the field. The other was his first game vs. Ohio State in 2015 where they just got crushed.

The team is young. Most of it's starters are all freshman, RS frosh, or sophomores. Starting line-up last week:

DE- Rashan Gary, true Soph.
DT- Aubrey Solomon, true frosh.
DT- Mo Hurst- 5th Sr.
DE- Chase Winovich - RS Jr.
LB- Mike McCray - 5th Sr.
LB- Devin Bush- true Soph.
LB/Viper- Khaleke Hudson- true soph.
CB- David Long- RS Frosh.
CB- LaVert Hill- true Soph.
S-Josh Mettelus- true soph.
S-Tyree Kinnel- Jr.

7 of their 11 starters on defense last week were either true freshman, RS Freshmen or true sophomores. A lot of guys backing those guys up are just as young. Another 6 defensive players who were the next men off the bench in that two deep- true frosh, RS frosh, or sophs. CB Ambry Thomas, CB/S Jaylen Kelly-Powell, DE Kwity Paye- all 3 true freshman. LB Josh Uche and DT Mike Dwumfour- RS Frosh, DE Carlo Kemp - true sophomore.

13 of their top 22 players on that defense are basically pups. That's just the defense. On offense they've lost their starting QB and are starting a RS freshman at QB. Starting a true freshman at RG. All of their best receivers are true freshman- and the best one of that bunch is Tarik Black and he's been hurt.

It's actually pretty impressive the defense is as good as it's been. A lot of that has been the schedule, but a lot of that is Don Brown is just really good at his job and he's got a lot of talent to work with.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2017, 07:43:11 PM
you can't win every game every year. They lost 41% of their roster from the previous year. 11 guys drafted by the NFL. Like 4-5 more starting plays signed UDFA contracts. 43 seniors.


when the program is paying 7 mil a year, winning ALL the games is the goal.  Not realistic, but 7 mil a year is crazy too.
only season 3 so he gets a pass on the HUGE loss to the senior class and NFL exodus with the roster he inherited
next season the highly paid super coach better be neck and neck with his adversary, Urban, for the East and have a derned good chance in "the game"
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on November 18, 2017, 07:30:24 PM
when the program is paying 7 mil a year, winning ALL the games is the goal.  Not realistic, but 7 mil a year is crazy too.
only season 3 so he gets a pass on the HUGE loss to the senior class and NFL exodus with the roster he inherited
next season the highly paid super coach better be neck and neck with his adversary, Urban, for the East and have a derned good chance in "the game"
2018 was always going to be his make or break year. If he's not winning the B1G and in the playoff hunt next year, he'll start to hear whispers.

You might see some staff changes this off-season on that offense, and if 2018 is a let down year he probably feels the heat and you probably see major staff on that offense.

If he feels that heat and doesn't make those changes on his offensive staff though and the losing mounts- he might not make it to year 6. That marriage could wind up pretty bad fast. He wouldn't make changes to the 49ers offensive staff- that's one of the big reasons he fought with the GM. GM apparently demanded that Greg Roman be gone as OC. Harbaugh wouldn't budge. We all know how that ended. Harbaugh lost all of his battles with that GM and Owner. The GM wasn't wrong- Roman should've been fired by the way, he absolutely sucks and he's sucked everywhere he's been. The way he went about it probably wasn't bright. Leaking stuff about Harbaugh to the press 24/7 and the GM's daughter going on twitter trashing Roman. Harbaugh is a stubborn prick. That kind of shit is just going to make him dig in harder. He needs to be handled with kid gloves.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on November 19, 2017, 08:30:53 AM
You might see some staff changes this off-season on that offense, and if 2018 is a let down year he probably feels the heat and you probably see major staff on that offense.
Showing Drevno the door should be the obvious starting point. How was Drevno ever qualified for Michigan OC when his highest job has only been at San Diego? (Not State). He's in over his head and holding back a good team. Hire a proven P5 OC and relegate Drevno to driving Harbaugh's golf cart. That way he can still do the piggybacking he's been doing on Harbaugh's staff for a decade.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on November 19, 2017, 09:16:39 AM
2018 was always going to be his make or break year. If he's not winning the B1G and in the playoff hunt next year, he'll start to hear whispers.

You might see some staff changes this off-season on that offense, and if 2018 is a let down year he probably feels the heat and you probably see major staff on that offense.

If he feels that heat and doesn't make those changes on his offensive staff though and the losing mounts- he might not make it to year 6. That marriage could wind up pretty bad fast. He wouldn't make changes to the 49ers offensive staff- that's one of the big reasons he fought with the GM. GM apparently demanded that Greg Roman be gone as OC. Harbaugh wouldn't budge. We all know how that ended. Harbaugh lost all of his battles with that GM and Owner. The GM wasn't wrong- Roman should've been fired by the way, he absolutely sucks and he's sucked everywhere he's been. The way he went about it probably wasn't bright. Leaking stuff about Harbaugh to the press 24/7 and the GM's daughter going on twitter trashing Roman. Harbaugh is a stubborn prick. That kind of shit is just going to make him dig in harder. He needs to be handled with kid gloves.
DVOA rank of offenses Roman has coordinated
6
4
7
11 (the rough last Harbs year)
12 (Bills under Rex)
17 (Bills under Rex)


We think all OCs suck, much like we think all coaches suck.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Temp430 on November 20, 2017, 08:44:14 AM
Michigan needs to recruit better when in comes to QBs.  A premium needs to be placed on QBs that can have their head repeatedly slammed to the turf or speared with a helmet containing a 310 lb. DT and not miss a single down.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: ELA on November 20, 2017, 10:35:35 AM
Here it is.  The Big Ten is actively conspiring against Michigan, one of their largest and most profitable fan bases, and have been, since the days of Bo.  I know this represents like 0.1% of the fan base, but it's making the rounds on laughter across all the college football blogs this morning.

The abridged version

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/11/20/16676414/michigan-wisconsin-fan-reaction-week-12

Or if you want to read the full 3,200 word version

http://michigannation2.blogspot.com/2017/11/this-football-season-and-possible.html
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on November 20, 2017, 02:09:09 PM
Michigan needs to recruit better when in comes to QBs.  A premium needs to be placed on QBs that can have their head repeatedly slammed to the turf or speared with a helmet containing a 310 lb. DT and not miss a single down.
College game needs to protect QBs better. 
Michigan coaches needs to get their EFFING shit together on pass protection. They have failed MISERABLY all year teaching the OLs, TEs, and RBs the pass blocking scheme. 
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 20, 2017, 02:13:17 PM
College game needs to protect QBs better.
Michigan coaches needs to get their EFFING shit together on pass protection. They have failed MISERABLY all year teaching the OLs, TEs, and RBs the pass blocking scheme.
I agree with this. Peters took a beating on Saturday even before the final hit.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on November 20, 2017, 02:14:04 PM
I remember all those arguments about Harbaugh and Erik Swenson.  Seems like they should have kept him.
Title: Re: Michigan 2017 Season Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on November 20, 2017, 06:16:44 PM
I remember all those arguments about Harbaugh and Erik Swenson.  Seems like they should have kept him.
Not sure he would've made much of a difference. What I am seeing is a systemic problem that has been going on throughout the entire season. And it's not just the linemen but it's also the RB's and TE's. They are absolutely horrible in pass protection. They don't know who to pick-up, they can't handle stunts from the DL and their double teams routinely are bad- they leave double teams too early or they double team someone unnecessarily and let a free rusher into the backfield. Often times they don't even pick guys up. That should not be happening every single game this late in the season.

These repeated issues scream coaching to me. And it's not just the line. It's the RB's and TE's too. They have no idea how to work together and they don't know what they are looking at and who to pick up in pass pro. It's BAD. I don't know if it's because Drevno is doing too much and not paying enough attention to detail or if there's an issue with the style of blocking scheme and it's too complicated or if it's an issue with Drevno and Greg Frye where Drevno teaches one thing and Frye another and the players' heads are all scrambled. Might be a combo of all 3. Regardless they need to fix it and FIX IT fast.

Drevno should probably leave and Frey should be promoted to full-time OL coach and they should probably promote Pep Hamilton to OC. I think they should also go find a real RB coach. They went from having one of the best in Wheatley to......Jim's son.