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Topic: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
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847badgerfan · « **Reply #140 on:** August 02, 2018, 11:29:58 AM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 02, 2018, 11:13:32 AM

Agreed and that’s why he was fired. Why are we assuming that Meyer did not inform his superiors? Who has ever said that? And where exactly is this “lie”? If you listen carefully to what he said at the big 10 media days he basically clears the air on 2009 and says that in 2015 the police report or whatever information he sought to find the truth indicated that there was nothing there.

That's where this gets mushy.
If you assume he did in fact report this to superiors, he contradicted that last week at media days.
I have no doubt Smith did what he did to his wife. His text message to her confirms this.

ELA · « **Reply #141 on:** August 02, 2018, 11:35:24 AM »

Quote from: ELA on August 01, 2018, 11:12:53 AM

Yeah I think we are finding that out across all mediums. I'm not talking about the Harvey Weinstein stuff, but people having old Tweets dragged out. I think the days of coaches being able to put blinders on while the police "handle" stuff is over. Hell, I remember the drug officer in 1995 telling a room full of 5th graders that the standing orders for UM/Ann Arbor police officers, when he was on the beat in the 70s and 80s was that if he picked up a UM football player, you absolutely did not book him, or take him to jail. You took him straight to Bo's house, and he handled it. He didn't tell it in a "can you believe this?" but in a "this is funny" kind of way, and not to people at a private dinner party, but to a room full of public school children.

I think a lot of these coaches grew up in that mentality.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24259780/urban-meyer-ohio-state-buckeyes-coaching-scandal
This article might be a tad harsh, but this is what I was getting at. This is why Izzo seems perplexed about why he's getting questioned about his hadnling of situations where, either a.) the police deemed there wasn't enough to pursue; or b.) the coaching staff was never notified. This is simply how it's been for decades. The major sports programs were untouchable. As long as the i's were dotted and the t's were crossed it was fine. That's not the case anymore, and it's for the better, and these coaches are way too slow to adjust. Maybe they are too ingrained in the way it's always been.

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #142 on:** August 02, 2018, 12:20:54 PM »

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2018, 11:29:58 AM

That's where this gets mushy.
If you assume he did in fact report this to superiors, he contradicted that last week at media days.
I have no doubt Smith did what he did to his wife. His text message to her confirms this.

Well you raised a good point earlier about - if this is all true, then all of the coaches knew.
What’s good for the goose—. The other coaches that were there need to be accountable. Vrabel- Coombs- Warriner and so on.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #143 on:** August 02, 2018, 12:24:40 PM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 02, 2018, 11:13:32 AM

Let me be clear about this: if he was truly aware of physical abuse that was ongoing ( in other words validated or at least highly likely given that her refusal to press charges makes many of her claims questionable ) and did nothing as far as informing his superiors and just try to hope it was swept under the rug, he needs to be terminated for that. But right now all I hear are a lot of assumptions about that based on one person‘s side of the story as reported by one media person

Agreed,thanx for saving me time/effort.Find it hard to believe he did not report up,if guilty let him swing like Tress.Really starting to think Gene Smith doesn't survive this or he shouldn't

MrNubbz · « **Reply #144 on:** August 02, 2018, 12:27:15 PM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 02, 2018, 11:24:51 AM

I disagree. It's awful, but I disagree.
Meyer's job is to look out for his players and his family. His coaching assistant's wives aren't really his business. There's a reason they specify "domestic" violence - that's in soemoone else's home.
It's not a comfortable idea, but I feel it's accurate.

Moral contractual obligations as a State Emolyee

rolltidefan · « **Reply #145 on:** August 02, 2018, 12:33:03 PM »

quick note before i post this, the guy reporting this (o'keefe/project veritas) is as shady as they come, so take it with a health dash of salt, but it is being reported along with the meyer stuff, so figured i'd just get it all out there now.

they are reporting/posting videos of florida players (under the meyer staff) discussing 'abuse' to those players. supposedly with more to come that are more condemning.

imo, the videos so far that i've seen are pretty weak, but they are there. also, as noted above, o'keefe has been found to edit videos creatively to get what he wants, so again, take with grain of salt.

FearlessF · « **Reply #146 on:** August 02, 2018, 12:38:27 PM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 02, 2018, 12:20:54 PM

The other coaches that were there need to be accountable. Vrabel- Coombs- Warriner and so on.

perhaps why the particular coach was named interim ? He was someone that did not know?

Anonymous Coward · « **Reply #147 on:** August 02, 2018, 12:56:14 PM »

Quote from: rolltidefan on August 02, 2018, 12:33:03 PM

quick note before i post this, the guy reporting this (o'keefe/project veritas) is as shady as they come, so take it with a health dash of salt, but it is being reported along with the meyer stuff, so figured i'd just get it all out there now.

they are reporting/posting videos of florida players (under the meyer staff) discussing 'abuse' to those players. supposedly with more to come that are more condemning.

imo, the videos so far that i've seen are pretty weak, but they are there. also, as noted above, o'keefe has been found to edit videos creatively to get what he wants, so again, take with grain of salt.

Yeah those sources have a pretty stupid journalistic history. Deserves zero trust.

Anonymous Coward · « **Reply #148 on:** August 02, 2018, 01:00:05 PM »

Quote from: FearlessF on August 02, 2018, 12:38:27 PM

perhaps why the particular coach was named interim ? He was someone that did not know?

Right away, appointing Day seemed pretty thoughtful and proactive. Made it seem another increment more likely that an interim succession plan was at least on the table.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #149 on:** August 02, 2018, 01:06:05 PM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 02, 2018, 08:13:13 AM

I have actually been the witness in court to a similar situation where she abused him but tried to have him prosecuted for abusing her.

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 02, 2018, 08:46:08 AM

When did Smith's wife actually file charges?I mean for real,because unless Urban witnessed the abuse,what legally was he obligated to do?We know morally what the obligation is.But was Smith ex also reluctant to get him fired.Just asking because I'm not spending any time investigating.IMO Meyer and Gene Smith will both be shown the door

Honestbuckeye: Likewise I have a personal friend with a crazy ex-wife that injured herself, called the cops, got him arrested. Luckily for him it got laughed out of court by the judge who realized she was a nutcase. That said, there is a long-standing pattern here, not a one-time incident. Pretty sure that if she had been calling the cops on him over and over with no reason, he'd have walked away instead of her divorcing him. The optics don't look like a he-said / she-said.
MrNubbz: Again, with them working for the same company and Title IX involved, Urban may have had a duty to do more. He might have had a duty not necessarily to fire Smith, but to alert HR of the issue and turn the matter over to them to handle. And it appears that as an OSU employee, Shelley may have had the same duty.

Hoss · « **Reply #150 on:** August 02, 2018, 01:07:51 PM »

It was pointed out to me that Day hasn't been around long enough to be involved in any of the backsplash from the allegations either. He can be a clean break for the AD.

Mdot21 · « **Reply #151 on:** August 02, 2018, 01:09:06 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 02, 2018, 12:27:15 PM

Moral contractual obligations as a State Emolyee

this.
He's the highest paid state employee in Ohio. He's also responsible for shaping 18-22 year old men. These aren't professionals where he could fall back on the excuse that they are just there to be paid and do a job, that he doesn't need to be a role model and example for them. He's a college coach. That is part of his job like or not. Urban has a moral obligation not to hire and keep around wife beaters. The buck stops with him. He is the CEO. He is responsible for that program and he is responsible for the people that he HIRES to WORK FOR HIM. I keep hearing about people talking about other coaches. Other coaches didn't hire and keep Zach Smith around for almost a decade. Urban did. Other coaches can say whatever they want to Urban, hey maybe this guy should be out of here- but it's not up to them to fire anyone. Only Urban or someone above him like the AD/President can make that call.
He absolutely knew. There is no way in hell Shelley Meyer didn't tell him. They've been married for 30 years. Zach Smith wasn't just a coach either. He was also the grandson of his mentor/2nd father. He's known Zach Smith for most of Zach Smith's life. Urban says he and his wife tried to help out in the 2009 incident involving Smith and his ex-wife. Urban wasn't just his employer. He was a close family friend and he knew there was a history of domestic violence with this guy dating back to 2009.
There really was no excuse for him keeping that despicable excuse of a human being Zach Smith around. Why did Urban only fire him only a week ago? Oh maybe bc the piece of shit finally got popped and it slipped out in the media? I'd bet my life he'd still be the WR coach had it not gone public. The Cleveland Plain Dealer reported that the police were called by that woman NINE times in the last 6 years. Nine times. You think Columbus PD doesn't have Urban's #? You really think he doesn't have connections there? The ex-wife has records of texts and pics she sent Shelley Meyer. Shelley asked her if she had a restraining order and to get one because Zach scares her. You have to suspend all belief to think for one second Shelley never shared pics or told Urban about any of it.
And don't give me this horseshit that oh charges were never filed, charges were never filed he was never convicted. Bullshit. Unfortunately women who suffer abuse for years and never file charges or even call the police after their husbands beat them. They take the abuse hoping things will get better. It's fucked up and it's sad. The only way things will ever change is if people like Zach Smith are ostracized, ridiculed, and cast aside and have their entire worlds destroyed and the people who ENABLE THEM like Urban Meyer did are held accountable.

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #152 on:** August 02, 2018, 01:23:00 PM »

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 02, 2018, 01:09:06 PM

this.
He's the highest paid state employee in Ohio. He's also responsible for shaping 18-22 year old men. These aren't professionals where he could fall back on the excuse that they are just there to be paid and do a job, that he doesn't need to be a role model and example for them. He's a college coach. That is part of his job like or not. Urban has a moral obligation not to hire and keep around wife beaters. The buck stops with him. He is the CEO. He is responsible for that program and he is responsible for the people that he HIRES to WORK FOR HIM. I keep hearing about people talking about other coaches. Other coaches didn't hire and keep Zach Smith around for almost a decade. Urban did. Other coaches can say whatever they want to Urban, hey maybe this guy should be out of here- but it's not up to them to fire anyone. Only Urban or someone above him like the AD/President can make that call.
He absolutely knew. There is no way in hell Shelley Meyer didn't tell him. They've been married for 30 years. Zach Smith wasn't just a coach either. He was also the grandson of his mentor/2nd father. He's known Zach Smith for most of Zach Smith's life. Urban says he and his wife tried to help out in the 2009 incident involving Smith and his ex-wife. Urban wasn't just his employer. He was a close family friend and he knew there was a history of domestic violence with this guy dating back to 2009.
There really was no excuse for him keeping that despicable excuse of a human being Zach Smith around. Why did Urban only fire him only a week ago? Oh maybe bc the piece of shit finally got popped and it slipped out in the media? I'd bet my life he'd still be the WR coach had it not gone public. The Cleveland Plain Dealer reported that the police were called by that woman NINE times in the last 6 years. Nine times. You think Columbus PD doesn't have Urban's #? You really think he doesn't have connections there? The ex-wife has records of texts and pics she sent Shelley Meyer. Shelley asked her if she had a restraining order and to get one because Zach scares her. You have to suspend all belief to think for one second Shelley never shared pics or told Urban about any of it.
And don't give me this horseshit that oh charges were never filed, charges were never filed he was never convicted. Bullshit. Unfortunately women who suffer abuse for years and never file charges or even call the police after their husbands beat them. They take the abuse hoping things will get better. It's fucked up and it's sad. The only way things will ever change is if people like Zach Smith are ostracized, ridiculed, and cast aside and have their entire worlds destroyed and the people who ENABLE THEM like Urban Meyer did are held accountable.

Spoken like a true fan of a team that can’t beat the guy. Judge, jury and hangman.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #153 on:** August 02, 2018, 01:23:54 PM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 02, 2018, 09:19:06 AM

First, as someone who has hire/fire responsibility I never encountered or considered a situation like this but what is my responsibility if one of my employees is allegedly beating his wife?

Quote from: SuperMario on August 02, 2018, 11:07:02 AM

I've thought about this a lot in the last 24 hours as well. I suppose if it came up, I would go directly to legal counsel and ensure it was well documented in writing.

Quote from: Anonymous Coward on August 02, 2018, 11:11:16 AM

Yes. Probably that as a minimum. I probably would not be held accountable if I didn't though. I'd just be upset with myself.
Not everyone has a contractual obligation (and, presumably, training) to report, however.

I've had training on this from my employer, as I used to have some management responsibility.
If you have an employee that is being abused, even if by a non-employee, you go to HR. The reason for this is that abuse off-site can turn into abuse on-premises. The thing about workplaces is that it's a place where an abuser knows someone is going to be for certain hours of every day, knows when they generally arrive/leave, etc. So even if someone who is being abused or fears abuse is trying to keep the abuser out of their life or hide, the workplace is the place they're least capable of hiding.
Going the opposite way, if the employee was the abuser, I'd say there's still a duty to report to HR. The above rationale is one thing--abuse off-site can provoke issues or retaliation on-site. But also because having the knowledge and doing nothing about it can be a PR nightmare. What happens, for example, if the abuser kills the victim, and then it comes out in the media that I as his manager knew about domestic violence issues and didn't report them to HR? Yeah, I'd be sent packing to protect the company.
Nobody wants to be the bad guy in this situation. It's thorny and basically every decision you make can be wrong if events go against you. Which is why the best idea is to just move it up the chain to HR and let them deal with it. It's their job.

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Topic: Is Urby In Trouble Here?

847badgerfan

Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?

ELA

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Honestbuckeye

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MrNubbz

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MrNubbz

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rolltidefan

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FearlessF

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Anonymous Coward

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Anonymous Coward

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betarhoalphadelta

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Hoss

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Mdot21

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Honestbuckeye

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betarhoalphadelta

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