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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46424 on: July 07, 2025, 09:02:22 AM »
I'm slightly dismayed at some folks on FB blaming this on Trump, but I realize they will use any tragedy as a source for political blame.  I view it as something that ends up punishing them.  They are so anti-Trump they are mired in it and can't escape or be rational about it.

They blamed him for the plane-helo collision in DC earlier, and of course many other events, including getting us into WW 3.

I'm far from a Trump fan obviously, but I make some effort to be rational.  I'm not always good at it.

People can be their own worst punishment in life.



« Last Edit: July 07, 2025, 09:13:50 AM by Cincydawg »

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46425 on: July 07, 2025, 09:07:43 AM »
Cell service is notoriously spotty in that remote area down in the river basin, and I don't believe campers were allowed to have cell phones anyway.

However, there absolutely should have been someone on staff responsible for tracking weather, at all hours.  And especially in a known flood-prone area and with a known rainstorm nearby.

There will be a lot of changes in policy and procedure at multiple locations and multiple levels of authority, I have no doubt.

But it will never bring back those 80+ people including 28 children.
Not having buildings in a flood zone would be a good start. There are so many around here.
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Gigem

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46426 on: July 07, 2025, 09:48:07 AM »
SLUBICE, Poland (AP) — Poland reinstated border controls on Monday with Germany and Lithuania following similar German restrictions imposed earlier this year aimed at discouraging asylum-seekers.

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, whose government recently survived a confidence vote in parliament, announced the restrictions last week. Pressure has been mounting after far-right groups in Poland have alleged Germany was transporting migrants into Polish territory after they reached Western Europe.

The reinstated controls, which began overnight Sunday, will last for an initial period of 30 days, though authorities have not ruled out extending them, according to the Polish Ministry of Internal Affairs and Administration.

“Illegal migration is simply a crime,” Polish Interior Minister Tomasz Siemoniak said Sunday during a news conference.
Please explain what this means if you know.  Because I've never been to Europe, but even with the EU I assumed there was some kind of border check point, it's not like in the USA where you can go from state to state, you still need to pass through some sort of immigration/customs check point.  

Gigem

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46427 on: July 07, 2025, 09:53:03 AM »
Not having buildings in a flood zone would be a good start. There are so many around here.
Not trying to be obtuse or a jerk here, but realistically when the "flood zone" hasn't flooded in recent memory, perhaps only once since 1987 (almost 40 years ago) and maybe not even 50-100 years before that it's entirely probable that the people in charge just didn't realize that they were in danger.  I mean, you're house is on the coast, and can probably withstand a Cat 3 Hurricane, but if a Cat 5 came in it would probably wipe it out no matter what measures you take.  But how often do we see a Cat 5 storm?  I'm struggling to think of the last true Cat 5 that hit the US, maybe never.  Sure, we're had some that were Cat 5 that weakened to Cat 3 when they hit.  


Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46428 on: July 07, 2025, 09:54:33 AM »
In the Schengen zone, one can move from country to country with no checks at all.  Some old border posts still exist, but are unmanned.


Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46429 on: July 07, 2025, 09:55:43 AM »
if a Cat 5 came in it would probably wipe it out no matter what measures you take.  But how often do we see a Cat 5 storm?  I'm struggling to think of the last true Cat 5 that hit the US, maybe never.  Sure, we're had some that were Cat 5 that weakened to Cat 3 when they hit. 
The US has experienced a number of Cat 5 hurricanes at landfall in the past. 

List of Category 5 Atlantic hurricanes - Wikipedia

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46430 on: July 07, 2025, 10:01:19 AM »
Not trying to be obtuse or a jerk here, but realistically when the "flood zone" hasn't flooded in recent memory, perhaps only once since 1987 (almost 40 years ago) and maybe not even 50-100 years before that it's entirely probable that the people in charge just didn't realize that they were in danger.  I mean, you're house is on the coast, and can probably withstand a Cat 3 Hurricane, but if a Cat 5 came in it would probably wipe it out no matter what measures you take.  But how often do we see a Cat 5 storm?  I'm struggling to think of the last true Cat 5 that hit the US, maybe never.  Sure, we're had some that were Cat 5 that weakened to Cat 3 when they hit. 


I'm at a safe elevation, and the house took a direct hit from Ian less than 3 years ago.

Ian was initially classified as a Cat 4 but later changed to a Cat 5.

Max winds were 160 MPH sustained, with gusts over 220 MPH.

As for the flood zone, it's mapped by FEMA and therefore a risk.
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utee94

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46431 on: July 07, 2025, 10:02:38 AM »
I'm at a safe elevation, and the house took a direct hit from Ian less than 3 years ago.

Ian was initially classified as a Cat 4 but later changed to a Cat 5.

Max winds were 160 MPH sustained, with gusts over 220 MPH.

As for the flood zone, it's mapped by FEMA and therefore a risk.
Plenty of devastation in your area, though, even if not your own house.  Do you believe there should be zero rebuilding of anything that was destroyed in the last one?

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46432 on: July 07, 2025, 10:08:06 AM »
Plenty of devastation in your area, though, even if not your own house.  Do you believe there should be zero rebuilding of anything that was destroyed in the last one?
I do. People need to use common sense. If it requires flood insurance...

Last year during Milton my favorite restaurants downtown had 8+ feet of water inside, and we lost our hospital. Two weeks before with Helene, the downtown flooded but minimal damage to buildings.
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46433 on: July 07, 2025, 10:08:38 AM »
There have been 10 Cat 5's since 2015.
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jgvol

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46434 on: July 07, 2025, 10:14:00 AM »
From what I've read/heard ....

The flooding occurred between 4-6 AM, really bad timing for obvious reasons.

And the water level rose 26 ft in 45 minutes.

I heard Chip Roy on the radio this morning, and he said that the city voted down installing weather sirens.  There's a legit criticism.

And I'm sure there are some more, but sometimes bad things happen, and this seems like one of those moments -- unless I'm missing a part of the story.

utee94

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46435 on: July 07, 2025, 10:23:17 AM »
From what I've read/heard ....

The flooding occurred between 4-6 AM, really bad timing for obvious reasons.

And the water level rose 26 ft in 45 minutes.

I heard Chip Roy on the radio this morning, and he said that the city voted down installing weather sirens.  There's a legit criticism.

And I'm sure there are some more, but sometimes bad things happen, and this seems like one of those moments -- unless I'm missing a part of the story.
I think there is a long chain of problems that led to the final tragic result, some systemic and addressable, and some just incredibly unfortunate.

Weather sirens could have helped, there are other flood-prone regions in the state that have them.  

The state also has a super-annoying cell phone alert system that they regularly use to let us know if someone lost a dog 5 counties over, but was not employed in this case.  But as I stated before (or maybe on the thread on the SEC forum), cell phone service in that remote river basin is notoriously spotty, and the campers themselves weren't allowed to have cell phones anyway, but presumably some of the counselors and adult supervisors would have cell access.  There's still a problem with service.

 (That was just an exaggeration about the dog thing but suffice to say, it has been used over broad areas before to alerts us of events that could never have any impact at all on us).

Beyond all that, this is a river in an area of the state that is well-known for flash-flooding.  Having a person monitor the weather services and NOAA weather radio 24/7 would have obviously been a good idea.  They may or may not have had someone doing that, but if they did, then that person failed to act in time, although they did have enough warning.

Another unfortunate fact, was that they had some of the very youngest campers, in the cabins closest to the river's edge.  That's obviously not an ideal campsite design with hindsight being 20/20.

Lots of other factors and failures occurred to result in this tragedy as well.  Ultimately my heart aches even more, because I do believe it was almost entirely preventable.

MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46436 on: July 07, 2025, 10:27:18 AM »
But it will never bring back those 80+ people including 28 children.
R.I.P. to all of them and thoughts/prayers to the families,there is some good that could come from this though to stiff a price to pay
"It is better to have died a young boy than to fumble the football" - John Heisman

Gigem

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46437 on: July 07, 2025, 10:33:22 AM »
There have been 10 Cat 5's since 2015.
To the best of my knowledge, only a few of the Cat 5 Hurricanes were at Cat 5 strength when they hit.  We took a direct hit from Beryl last year, and it's listed as a Cat 5.  It was only a Cat 1 when it hit here.  



 

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