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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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FearlessF

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45472 on: June 18, 2025, 12:38:46 PM »
My genuine stance is that we've been lied to enough times, for long enough, to take nothing at face value.

Ed Zachery

I y'all wanna believe Netanyahu & Trump....... good for you
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45473 on: June 18, 2025, 12:40:35 PM »
As for the motive itself, I for one certainly hope we do not get into another military quagmire in the Middle East, or anywhere else. 
yup, I'm all for letting the Israelis handle this crap - they're doing a bang up job in Gaza
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

jgvol

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45474 on: June 18, 2025, 12:42:06 PM »
yup, I'm all for letting the Israelis handle this crap - they're doing a bang up job in Gaza

This is really the brass tacks for me -- in a nutshell.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45475 on: June 18, 2025, 12:47:37 PM »
Ed Zachery

I y'all wanna believe Netanyahu & Trump....... good for you

I still don't understand what Netanyahu or Trump have to do with Iran's and the IAEA's claims.....but whatever.  

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45476 on: June 18, 2025, 01:00:43 PM »
oh, well believing Iran is even better than those 2
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45477 on: June 18, 2025, 01:13:28 PM »
How do they actually believe they could wage an "all-out war" against the US? They can't even defend themselves against Israel. Between these clowns and the rocket man, the delusion is massive.

Iran warns US joining conflict would mean 'all-out war,' refuses demands to give up disputed nuclear program
Iran warns US joining conflict would mean 'all-out war,' refuses demands to give up disputed nuclear program
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45478 on: June 18, 2025, 01:15:17 PM »
oh, well believing Iran is even better than those 2

Okay, so the point seems to be that because Iran says some false stuff, none of its other claims should be taken seriously. 

That's a fallacy that can go under either Ad Hominem--attacking the claimant rather than the merits of the claim, or the Genetic Fallacy--a claim is dismissed due to its source and not its merits.  I thought utee94 had already addressed this, but let me try to make an example specific to you to make the point.  

You have a daughter, I believe.  Suppose there's a guy who has made repeated claims over the years he would like to harm your daughter.  This guy also says a bunch of other things that are full of crap, meant to intimidate people he has no chance of succeeding in intimidating.  Now he informs you he's getting ready to harm your daughter.  Do you see how the other stupid claims are irrelevant due to 1) one claim matches a repeated, stated pattern of intent while the others do not, and 2) you have an obligation to take this guy seriously, because after all, it's your daughter.  

It's just bad reasoning to throw Iran's other dumb statements in the same bin as them stating "Hey, after years of saying we'd like to nuke Israel if we could, we're doing stuff with uranium that could lead to nuking Israel."  

jgvol

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45479 on: June 18, 2025, 01:19:51 PM »
Okay, so the point seems to be that because Iran says some false stuff, none of its other claims should be taken seriously. 

That's a fallacy that can go under either Ad Hominem--attacking the claimant rather than the merits of the claim, or the Genetic Fallacy--a claim is dismissed due to its source and not its merits.  I thought utee94 had already addressed this, but let me try to make an example specific to you to make the point. 

You have a daughter, I believe.  Suppose there's a guy who has made repeated claims over the years he would like to harm your daughter.  This guy also says a bunch of other things that are full of crap, meant to intimidate people he has no chance of succeeding in intimidating.  Now he informs you he's getting ready to harm your daughter.  Do you see how the other stupid claims are irrelevant due to 1) one claim matches a repeated, stated pattern of intent while the others do not, and 2) you have an obligation to take this guy seriously, because after all, it's your daughter. 

It's just bad reasoning to throw Iran's other dumb statements in the same bin as them stating "Hey, after years of saying we'd like to nuke Israel if we could, we're doing stuff with uranium that could lead to nuking Israel." 

Sounds a lot like an Israel problem.

And if it stayed that way, I don't think anyone would have opposition.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45480 on: June 18, 2025, 01:27:09 PM »
I think most here are for letting Israel handle "it", with the possible exception of a B2 strke on Fordow.

Some of us might be a maybe on that.

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45481 on: June 18, 2025, 01:27:42 PM »
my only point is that I'm more than a bit skeptical that Israel started this crap at this time because they really thought that Iran was once again only a couple weeks from creating a nuclear weapon.. Israel was in urgent and grave danger!

I'm not sayin this isn't the case, I'm just a bit skeptical.  As I said, it could just be a statement as an excuse to bomb Iran this week.

some here seem to think they have no or very little cause to question known liars with plenty of motives.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45482 on: June 18, 2025, 01:29:25 PM »
Sounds a lot like an Israel problem.

And if it stayed that way, I don't think anyone would have opposition.

Well I certainly haven't suggested we get involved.  Israel seems to be pounding Iran's sand into glass on their own.  My comments are in response to what I perceived to be the notion that Israel shouldn't be doing what its doing because poor ol' Iran is just being oppressed by The Man and gee, they don't ever even have any nukes even though mean ol' intelligence agencies say they're too close and then put a boot up their arse and destroy all the work Iran hasn't really been doing.  

In fact, I think the relative ease Israel has had so far suggests to me that this is not about regime change for them, or they would've just done it a long time ago. 

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45483 on: June 18, 2025, 01:29:38 PM »
Sounds a lot like an Israel problem.

And if it stayed that way, I don't think anyone would have opposition.
well, there may be a demonstration or two at a US University
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45484 on: June 18, 2025, 01:31:08 PM »
my only point is that I'm more than a bit skeptical that Israel started this crap at this time because they really thought that Iran was once again only a couple weeks from creating a nuclear weapon.. Israel was in urgent and grave danger!

I'm not sayin this isn't the case, I'm just a bit skeptical.  As I said, it could just be a statement as an excuse to bomb Iran this week.

some here seem to think they have no or very little cause to question known liars with plenty of motives.
Iran (through one of its many proxies) started this crap on October 7, 2023.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45485 on: June 18, 2025, 01:33:57 PM »
we could probably go back a few more decades
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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